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Can you explain why would you break things down to a cost per model basis, and use only the highest end guess that Worglock threw out there($275), rather than the more sensible equation of breaking things down to a cost per box basis?

People aren't likely going to buy more than one Megaforce. They're going to buy it to have a wider range of models to start working from than simply buying a Battleforce.

purplefood wrote:That confuses me even more...

Advanced mechanics of solids is easy compared to following maths where the starting point is not explained

I can see where she is coming from, but she is not really helping herself in the way she is going about.

Kanluwen wrote:Can you explain why would you break things down to a cost per model basis, and use only the highest end guess that Worglock threw out there($275), rather than the more sensible equation of breaking things down to a cost per box basis?

People aren't likely going to buy more than one Megaforce. They're going to buy it to have a wider range of models to start working from than simply buying a Battleforce.

Because you are looking at it completely out of the point.

SilverMK2 wrote:

purplefood wrote:That confuses me even more...

Advanced mechanics of solids is easy compared to following maths where the starting point is not explained

I can see where she is coming from, but she is not really helping herself in the way she is going about.

And that is my fault. Its like gravity. We know how it works, we know it exists, yet how many of us can come up with a formula ( unless we already learned it )

LunaHound wrote:Because you are looking at it completely out of the point.

However, you seem not to want to inform us what it is you are trying to say. At least I don't really see what you are trying to say, or why.

And that is my fault. Its like gravity. We know how it works, we know it exists, yet how many of us can come up with a formula ( unless we already learned it )

...

And yet people teach and learn how gravity works all the time - all you need is someone who know what they are talking about to explain what is going on

Wait, I am confused about this whole megaforce thing.

I think we're dealing with a language barrier? :/

I mean, what exactly is a megaforce? This is the first time I have heard about it.

nectarprime wrote:I think we're dealing with a language barrier? :/

I'm pretty sure everyone here is from a country which speaks English as a first language

SilverMK2 wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Because you are looking at it completely out of the point.

However, you seem not to want to inform us what it is you are trying to say. At least I don't really see what you are trying to say, or why.

And that is my fault. Its like gravity. We know how it works, we know it exists, yet how many of us can come up with a formula ( unless we already learned it )

...

And yet people teach and learn how gravity works all the time - all you need is someone who know what they are talking about to explain what is going on

But there are various people in the thread already that explained the concept i said. They understood.

Beyond that, i really cant see how i can explain it better. But just so you know im trying... here goes my attempt.


Say...

Apple costs $1.25
Orange costs $1.25
Banana costs: X

We have Special A. 20 apple and 20 oranges is special price of $40 total.
And we have Special B. We have 20 apple and 20 oranges and price is discounted amount of Y.

The price of Special B costs less than if you buy them all individually. To majority of customers, they see it as a "deal"

However, one can say Special A + X actually costs LESS than Special B
because the discount actually came from Special A deal.

Then we see the shop actually charges X+ MORE , making the banana more expensive if bought in Special B

Compared to Special A + Banana.

forruner_mercy wrote:I mean, what exactly is a megaforce? This is the first time I have heard about it.

It is like an army deal - you get a certain list of units and models for a certain cost which is less than buying all those models individually. Kind of like a bigger battleforce.

SilverMK2 wrote:

nectarprime wrote:I think we're dealing with a language barrier? :/

I'm pretty sure everyone here is from a country which speaks English as a first language

HAR HAR. The ones that understood read my english, its not like i explained to them in moon language.

Seriously, it doesn't need explanation, my first post with the numbers should have been enough to get the ideas through.

But sure if you want to blame it on MY english, go for it.

LunaHound wrote:But there are various people in the thread already that explained the concept i said. They understood.

Please understand - I get the concept, I agree that there are various ways of putting together the components of the megaforce from existing deals and kits. I simply want to know how you are getting your prices and why.

The concept you are putting across is really quite simple - trust me.

Beyond that, i really cant see how i can explain it better. But just so you know im trying... here goes my attempt.

Again, I get the concept - I just want to know where you are getting your prices from - as I have said several times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:Seriously, it doesn't need explanation, my first post with the numbers should have been enough to get the ideas through.

Again - idea is fine - I understand idea. No need to explain idea.

Numbers on other hand - need to know where you get them from.

But sure if you want to blame it on MY english, go for it.

If you read what I say I am not blaming anyone for anything, or even commenting on anyone's ability to write comprehensible English, or read and understand the posts of others.

Honestly, anyone that is interested in these releases will do their own research and educate themselves as consumers. If the listed USD price is reasonable, I will be jumping on the DE deal because I want each and every unit in the box. If it's not, here's hoping parents pick these up for their kids while I explore alternate means of completing my army. In addition, I think that a comparison to to the battleforce would only work for the price of one battleforce, as the units aren't the same past one battleforce.

SilverMK2 wrote:
Again, I get the concept - I just want to know where you are getting your prices from - as I have said several times.

A battleforce for 10 warriors, 10 wyches, 3 jetbikes, and 1 raider is $95. If you bought them separatlely the cost would be $125.75. You are getting 25% off the original retail on this.

Luna's numbers represent 25% off.

Then we see the shop actually charges X+ MORE , making the banana more expensive if bought in Special B

Compared to Special A + Banana.

Except, that isn't the case with the DE megaforce...

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:
Again, I get the concept - I just want to know where you are getting your prices from - as I have said several times.

A battleforce for 10 warriors, 10 wyches, 3 jetbikes, and 1 raider is $95. If you bought them separately the cost would be $125.75. You are getting 75% off the original retail on this.

Luna's numbers represent 75% off.

The problem is, no matter how you run the numbers in the currencies where we have prices to work from(GBP, Euro, AUD)---none of these megaforces at their listed price have had the contents of the megaforce be less expensive(whether you buy a battleforce+the individual components within the megaforce or the individual components separately) than the cost of the megaforce itself.

Simply put, the numbers do not add up to anywhere near what was put forward. In none of these scenarios, are you paying more for the megaforce.

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:
Again, I get the concept - I just want to know where you are getting your prices from - as I have said several times.

A battleforce for 10 warriors, 10 wyches, 3 jetbikes, and 1 raider is $95. If you bought them separatlely the cost would be $125.75. You are getting 75% off the original retail on this.

Luna's numbers represent 75% off.

Not 75% off. 25% off or 75% of the original cost. But yeah that appears to be the basis for the her calcs.

Interestingly, the megaforce has a similar discount, at least so far in every country that got their WD early.

So doing a little bit of math, going off the more likely price of 250 USD for the Megaforce for Dark Eldar, and what I assume she was meaning(namely: "Why would you buy these units, you can buy battleforces and get 2 more Raiders, 20 more Warriors, and 10 more Wyches!"):

Buying 3x Battleforces comes out to $285 USD and you do not get the Ravager, Scourges, or the Venom(which come out to $104.75 altogether)--but gain 20 more Warriors, 10 more Wyches and 2 more Raiders for $35 USD.

Assuming you do actually want those extra things, it comes out to $389.75 USD.

Now, if we reverse it and look at the megaforce as a starting point...
You're looking at 250+153[66(for the 2 Raiders)+87(2x boxes of Warriors @ 29 each and another box of Wyches @ 29)]=$403 USD.

That means, if you do want all the contents of a Megaforce plus 2 more Raiders, 20 more Warriors, and 10 more Wyches--it's cheaper(by $13.25 USD) to buy the 3x Battleforces+ the components individually.

If you do not want those 2 extra Raiders, 20 Warriors, and 10 Wyches--you're better off just buying the Megaforce as it's $139.75 less and you won't have to hedge your expenditures on hoping that you can sell off the extra components.

Is that what you were trying to put forward Luna?

Oops, yeah, 25% off.

LunaHound wrote:Weird. unless my original calculation is off, the price you quoted is still the number i get.

Now I see what we did differently. I added the price of the Battleforce along with the rest of the models, that's why we got different numbers.

I think I'm going to have to agree that its value will really be based on if you want everything in the megaforce versus if you want everything in multiple battleforces.

I personally think that, especially if the price is 250, the Dark Eldar megaforce is a good deal. I'm beginning to question if I'll buy it, though. I have one squad of Wyches, I could definitely use the two more, and I need so many more Warriors and Raiders, so check there. I have two Ravagers, a third certainly wouldn't hurt. Nine Reavers? Yes please. Same goes for a Venom. The Scourges, not so much, however, as I really can't see myself needing five more when I've already got ten, and have never seen the need to use more (yet).

Edit: I know they're coming out for Christmas, but do we have any idea when they'll be released?

Assuming AUD$350 is correct, it’s about a 35% saving for Aussies compared to buying it all separately. Of course, it’s AUD$250~ to buy everything separately from the UK or US, so if you can find a way to get it overseas, so that instead and save yourself a hundred 250 bucks

There's no assumption, we actually have a picture of it.


Borath101 posted it here.

Yep, just like the printed price of the RoB was correct... for all of a week.

The printed price of the RoB was actually in White Dwarf proper, not a pamphlet stuffed inside. It was set six months ahead of time--and they had to change it.

What I'd be interested in knowing is, as a fairly new player, who has been playing a little over a year, and only with Orks at about 1500 pt max, would the DE Megaforce be able to field 1000pts and be anywhere near competitive and more importantly, if not very competitive, at least a lot of fun?
I've had great success with my Orks, and while at best only "kinda" competitive, are a crap ton of fun.

What do you guys think?

Let's just continue and move on from the apparent mathematical conundrum we appear to have stumbled into. Ta.

Hi Guys,

Here are the numbers I crunched for the Space Marine Megaforce yesterday, before BrookM had confirmed the UK price of £130:

Unit / Price Au$ / Price Converted into GBP / Actual price from GW UK in GBP / Online Price GBP

Captain Au$37.00 £24.03 £14.00 £11.34
Command Squad Au$55.00 £35.73 £20.50 £16.61
Tactical Squad Au$62.00 £40.27 £23.00 £18.60
Tactical Squad Au$62.00 £40.27 £23.00 £18.60
Scout Squad Au$41.00 £26.63 £15.50 £12.55
Venerable Dreadnought Au$74.00 £48.07 £28.00 £22.68
Landraider Crusader / Redeemer Au$110.00 £71.45 £41.00 £33.21
Drop Pod Au$55.00 £35.73 £20.50 £16.60
Landspeeder Storm Au$50.00 £32.48 £18.50 £14.99

Total Au$546.00 / £204.00

Megaforce Au$350.00

Saving of Au$196.00 over individually priced units, which is approximately a 36% discount.

Applying that discount to the GW UK retail total of £204.00 gives a calculated Megaforce price of £130.77 that ties up nicely with the BrookM’s stated retail price.

Interestingly if you take the Au$350 price and convert it into GBP (at $1.00 = £0.65 according to Google) and then remove the average 74% (!) mark-up for the GW Aus prices, you get a price of £130.66, which is again consistent.

If (and it’s a big if) we assume that the Megaforce will be available to online retailers and they apply their average 19% discount (I used Gift for Geeks for this comparison, but Wayland et al are similar, YMMV), then the retail price will be ~£106, representing a whopping 48% saving over the original individual retail prices from GW UK!

Now I get what Lunahound was saying about the Battleforces already representing a saving, but a) I think this is still going to be cheaper and b) At least for the Space Marines the composition of units in the Megaforce is quite different to the Battleforce, so I don’t think you can make the comparison (i.e. If you bought three Battleforces it wouldn’t give you comparable units, unlike the old Ork Megaforce, which was essentially a scaled up Battleforce).

From this I draw three conclusions:

1) This a big saving if, and only if, you actually want most of this stuff
2) I now have a deep sense of pity for our Southern Hemisphere cousins, 74% mark-up??! OUCH!
3) A deep, abiding, hope that Reds8n doesn’t think I’m ignoring his instructions about mathematical conundrums and therefore I avoid a beating with the Mod stick…

matphat wrote:What I'd be interested in knowing is, as a fairly new player, who has been playing a little over a year, and only with Orks at about 1500 pt max, would the DE Megaforce be able to field 1000pts and be anywhere near competitive and more importantly, if not very competitive, at least a lot of fun?
I've had great success with my Orks, and while at best only "kinda" competitive, are a crap ton of fun.

What do you guys think?

I have not yet used a list with more Wyches than Warriors, I usually use the same amount, but I think it would be a fun list. The main problem I see is only having one Raider, footslogging Dark Eldar has not worked well for me, I like my troops to be protected. Well, as protected as their flimsy vehicles allow.

Running a few numbers fairly quickly, I'm coming up with just under 850 points for everything included in the megaforce with no upgrades taken (I computed the Warriors as Trueborn, though). You still need an HQ, getting an Archon would be your best bet. If you want, I could come up with a real list instead of just throwing all of the models in there and private message it to you. Bottom line, it wouldn't be too competitive of a list, but I think it would be a lot of fun, and if you learn to use it right, you could definitely kick some butt with it.

Edit: While the Archon model they sell is beautiful, you could also use the extra passengers that come with the Ravager to make an extra model if you have a base lying around, the new model could count as your Archon, he/she just wouldn't look as fancy.

matphat wrote:What I'd be interested in knowing is, as a fairly new player, who has been playing a little over a year, and only with Orks at about 1500 pt max, would the DE Megaforce be able to field 1000pts and be anywhere near competitive and more importantly, if not very competitive, at least a lot of fun?
I've had great success with my Orks, and while at best only "kinda" competitive, are a crap ton of fun.

What do you guys think?

I think you get a pretty decent selection out of this box. All you really need to add IMO is an extra Venom and a HQ and you'll have a half decent army. 2 units of 5 warriors in venoms and 2 full wych squads (although I often add in a haemonculus) are the foundation of my 1500 list. Scourges are pretty decent, reavers are okay (but not great). It would really benefit from having a couple of ravagers included too, but as the basis of a 1500 army, I think it's pretty damn good!

Kirasu wrote:Anyone know the price in "normal country dollars"? Not the exploitative aussie price.. Converting currency is sorta pointless

Yeah, that was because someone asked. Let's also not be arrogant a-holes with comments like "normal country" dollars, hm?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrookM wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:So how much does $350 australian translate to? 15 quid?

Each set is going for 130 quid or €175,--

Ouch! Like 100 quid markup for Aussies! If Maelstrom were still shipping or if Weyland had their shizzle together to go with their free shipping voucher I'd be buying a DE one from the UK to Aust.