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meneroth2 wrote:It seems to me that in order to retain an assulty army centered around wyches you have to take a hiemy in each squad and then seperate, leaving his pain token with the wyches and use him to charge first, sacrificing himself so they cant overwatch the wyches.

the other option would be to keep him with the wyches and put him in front. the benefit would be that he would have the fnp and still have to take hits till he died, but if the enemy has enough shooting they may be able to kill him and spill over onto the wyches.

i would use the second option mostly i think, but the first option would be good against units that have a TON of firepower and you know they would spill over into the wyches. seems like the best possible tactic to me because your not gonna lose the token and with the changes to fleet it doesnt matter as much to keep the hemonculus with you than it would to leave him back in the raider.

Something I'm not sure about and want clarified. If a unit gets assaulted by two units, can the unit being assaulted choose to hold its overwatch from the first unit and shoot the second?
Are you considered, "locked in combat," when blows are struck, or when charges are declared/made?
If you can, I don't see how the haemy tactic would work.

no, its locked in once the first unit moves into CC. I dont have the rulebook on hand to give you the specifics, but im almost 100% sure thats how it is. ive been brainstorming this since saturday.

Pretty sure that Eldar psychic powers only work Eldar - it is written in their codex.

The rule book psychic powers, however, do work on Dark Eldar.

Can someone tighten this up for me, I keep telling people you can not put fortune on a non-eldar unit. I do not have the Eldar rule book so I could be wrong.

Look at the diviniation powers. You will see they are very much like the ones from the Eldar book.

Kwi wrote:Pretty sure that Eldar psychic powers only work Eldar - it is written in their codex.

The rule book psychic powers, however, do work on Dark Eldar.

Can someone tighten this up for me, I keep telling people you can not put fortune on a non-eldar unit. I do not have the Eldar rule book so I could be wrong.

will probably be FAQed to mean allied units, at least battle brothers but yes, right now it does not really work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:Look at the diviniation powers. You will see they are very much like the ones from the Eldar book.

they are similar but random. also you could get some bad ones


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meneroth2 wrote:no, its locked in once the first unit moves into CC. I dont have the rulebook on hand to give you the specifics, but im almost 100% sure thats how it is. ive been brainstorming this since saturday.

do you declare all charges together or do you declare one, move then delcare another.

if its the first then they can snap fire at any unit that charges them. if its the latter then they would have a model in BTB after the first charge and be unable to snap fire the second time

The assault rules are pretty clear, it's pick a unit, declare a charge, resolve the entire charge including overwatch, distance, and movement, then afterwards either pick another unit and repeat the process, or move onto the fights sub phase.

So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

Its just too bad Haemonculi don't have fleet, that would really make this tactic.



I'm pretty bummed about not being able to put allied characters in a squad of raider wyches, I was all set on including Yriel in my Sliscus corsair themed force to give my wyches back their punch with his 4 2+ wounding armour ignoring attacks, and help me bring my deep striking tranports and my flyers in from reserve on turn 2, but sadly I can't put him in the transport. If I were to include an Autarch it would have to be using Swooping Hawk wings and putting him with Hellions or Beasts, but then their normal weapon selection of either a Power Weapon, or a Scorpion Chainsword are pretty mediocre IMO.

Drunkspleen wrote:The assault rules are pretty clear, it's pick a unit, declare a charge, resolve the entire charge including overwatch, distance, and movement, then afterwards either pick another unit and repeat the process, or move onto the fights sub phase.

So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

Its just too bad Haemonculi don't have fleet, that would really make this tactic.



I'm pretty bummed about not being able to put allied characters in a squad of raider wyches, I was all set on including Yriel in my Sliscus corsair themed force to give my wyches back their punch with his 4 2+ wounding armour ignoring attacks, and help me bring my deep striking tranports and my flyers in from reserve on turn 2, but sadly I can't put him in the transport. If I were to include an Autarch it would have to be using Swooping Hawk wings and putting him with Hellions or Beasts, but then their normal weapon selection of either a Power Weapon, or a Scorpion Chainsword are pretty mediocre IMO.

Why cant you put an allied character from Eldar with a DE unit?

So, as I understand it, Doom is the only Eldar psychic power that would actually synergize with Dark Eldar, since all the others specifically mention "Eldar" gaining the benefit. If this does restrict things, Eldrad would certainly lose a lot of his appeal.

I suppose one could argue that Dark Eldar are indeed Eldar, but I've no idea how much traction that may have.

Still, having 5 Pathfinders and a Farseer with Doom, Mind War, Runes of Warding and Witnessing, and Spirit Stones comes out to 265pts, which certainly isn't bad.

Drunkspleen wrote:The assault rules are pretty clear, it's pick a unit, declare a charge, resolve the entire charge including overwatch, distance, and movement, then afterwards either pick another unit and repeat the process, or move onto the fights sub phase.

So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

Its just too bad Haemonculi don't have fleet, that would really make this tactic.

They don't really need fleet for this tactic, as they're seperating off and forcing the overwatch, you should be close enough it shouldn't really matter (5-7" away, with the wyches fleet getting you 7-9")

Drunkspleen wrote:I'm pretty bummed about not being able to put allied characters in a squad of raider wyches, I was all set on including Yriel in my Sliscus corsair themed force to give my wyches back their punch with his 4 2+ wounding armour ignoring attacks, and help me bring my deep striking tranports and my flyers in from reserve on turn 2, but sadly I can't put him in the transport. If I were to include an Autarch it would have to be using Swooping Hawk wings and putting him with Hellions or Beasts, but then their normal weapon selection of either a Power Weapon, or a Scorpion Chainsword are pretty mediocre IMO.

Personally, I intend to run it either winged with scourges, with a fusiongun / reaper launcher, or in a squad of storm guardians (with fusionguns).

Xeriapt wrote:Why cant you put an allied character from Eldar with a DE unit?

Because you can't put allied ICs in allied transports at deployment.

Ovion wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Why cant you put an allied character from Eldar with a DE unit?

Because you can't put allied ICs in allied transports at deployment.

Not just deployment, you never can embark on an allied transport.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Ovion wrote:

Xeriapt wrote:Why cant you put an allied character from Eldar with a DE unit?

Because you can't put allied ICs in allied transports at deployment.

Not just deployment, you never can embark on an allied transport.

Well thats pretty irritating. Would work for a foot list at least.

Drunkspleen wrote:So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

So, if the Haemy makes it into assault and ties up the unit, the wyches can then assault w/o fear of overwatch? This is all the same assault phase, right?

acekevin8412 wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

So, if the Haemy makes it into assault and ties up the unit, the wyches can then assault w/o fear of overwatch? This is all the same assault phase, right?

once there are units in btb you cannot overwatch

After mulling through the codex and playing a few games this is what I've seen:

• Incubi will be used again. The Klaivex upgrade is mandatory and demi klaives are a must (only AP2 weapon in the codex). Onslaught and especially Murderous assault is worth taking now. Remember, the Klaivex is a character which means precision strikes. Also, they will be masters of challenges as Murderous assault gives them Preferred Enemy vs. IC's

• Drahzar will definitely see more play. He buffs Incubi, his darting strike allows you to bounce characters out of a combat while he attacks something else. He is going to be a b-itch in challenges. 2+ save gets around AP3 power weapons...and getting FnP on him basically gives him a 5+ invuln save.

• Reaver Jetbikes got a massive boost now. Bladevaning allows you to snik the important models if they are placed in back as casualties come from the closest to your bikes. So when they pass over they are closer to the models in the back of the target unit. When they turbo boost they go back to a 3+ cover save. (Jink+Turbo Bonus+Skilled Rider bonus = 3+ save). It may actually be worth upgrading to a arena champion now. Jetbikes seem like they'd be an okay assault unit as each bike gets 3 attacks on the charge and one Init 10 Hammer of Wrath strike.

• All the flyers are worth taking now. I tried out the Razorwing Fighters and they are pimp. Annoy people by taking flicker fields and night shields. Which leads to:

• Flicker fields will still be needed. There are lots of cover ignoring weapons out there still. Jink is just a cover save. Hydras blow through that as well as 'Fire on my target' with IG. Nightshields will be essential now that you can't put all your units in reserve.

• Wyches will require a WWP for delivery + deployment tricks. Putting them in Raiders now is a waste of time. Bigger units will be used.

• Lelith may be worth taking now. She is one of only two characters that have attacks that 'ignores armor saves'. Her blade isn't listed as a power weapon. Plus she will be more durable now that she can't be picked out of a combat unless challenged...which she'll be okay with anyways.

• Duke may be worth taking now. Like Lelith he is the only one in the codex that has a weapon that on a 5+ 'ignores armor saves'. Taking him to buff jetbikes further will be awesome.

• Phantasm GL's will be taken more. Getting the cover save when you charge vs. overwatch fire is better than no save. Wyches will be more durable as at least they'll get two saves assuming they have their first token.

• Disintegrators may be considered again. With the rise of the 2+ save....putting some in the army may be helpful..and they are still decent vs. rhinos.

• Adding Power Axes or Power Spears to Hekatrixes will be better overall than Agonizers.

• Wracks may be the scoring unit of choice

• Hellions may be the scoring unit of choice

• At 2k points taking the Baron as a 3rd HQ is almost a no brainer. Only 105pts unlocks Hellions as scoring and allows you the +1 to go first.

• Beastpacks will need to include Clawed Fiends now to absorb damage. You will also need to increase their unit size for them to be effective. They still are a viable assault unit.

• Scourges will be really useful to snik Hull Points off vehicles quickly. These may be more useful in certain builds vs. others.

• Grotesques are pretty good in this edition. They are very durable...and once they are fearless don't suffer from no retreat like they used to...thus they have an extreme resilience vs. just about anything. Adding Urien makes a unit of 10 disgustingly awesome. The ability to possibly assault further is appealing and the buff to FnP makes the weapons that were a problem less so.

• Harlequins may serve a purpose in the DE list. Rending is a boon, and you have 3 characters in the squad that can precision strike stuff. Death Jesters bring a Str6 gun to the table for DE and Fusion Pistols are still gold. Veil took a slight hit, but with Nightfighting...makes them still very durable.

• Trueborn with blasters aren't really worth it anymore. With the extra reach of rapid fire guns...these guys are now overpriced and die immediately with the new allocation rules since you have to get close with the important stuff and the AP2 bonus is a red herring. It basically makes the damage chart like the old one...thus the odds of killing a vehicle remains largely unchanged. I lost mine after one shooting phase in every game. It was ridiculous. I'm thinking of switching to trueborn with Dark Lances. They can sit back in cover and shoot stuff. 5 man squads with 2 DLs may be better.

• Vect is crap now and a waste of points.

• WWPs aren't that bad. They will be used more to deliver scoring units closer to objectives without getting pounded by rapid fire shooting.

• Big Warrior squads may be worth taking in combination with Sky Shields or Aegis Defense lines. If you are taking Aegis lines always add a coms relay for your flyers.

This is but a little of the things I'm seeing with DE. I haven't tapped the combos with allies as I'm looking to see what the codex can do on it's own for now. I'm hoping to get more games in this weekend.

Too add to the above poster.

- archons court just got really good with shooting against highest toughness. shooting now goes against majority toughness, so you take a couple ur-gouls (the T5 guys) and the unit counts as toughness 5 for all purposes. im not 100% sure this works in cc but i know it works against shooting. pretty sure it works in cc too. I plan to give my archon two ur-gouls as bodyguards which will give the unit majority toughness of 5 and you can still take saves on the archon if hes closest. makes him much harder to kill.

-if you want to really abuse the rules look out sir does allow you to take your saves and if you fail them pass it on to your buddies (look at the very top of the "look out sir" box and look at the wording in parenthesees). This pretty much gives you a 2++ rerollable before your archon is in trouble.

-deep striking scourges with haywire blasters are awesome now if you take a squad of 10. thats 4 blasters anywhere on the table. pretty much garantees a vehicle of any sort dead when they come in. and if the worst happens and you miss one or two, reavers can jump in and finish the vehicle off pretty easily.

-like i mentioned before, hiemies just became the suicide unit to stop overwatch if your still gonna run wyches in raiders.

-WWP is terrible, i gotta disagree with the OP. You can deliver units closer, sure, but unless those units are maxed out squads of warriors or wyches in terrian, they will be instagibbed before they can do anything. 9 rapid fire bolters and a flamer will slaughter any of our infantry, or at least render them useless.

-harlies just became our very best unit. there is a slight issue where they got buffed in the eldar FAQ but not the DE FAQ. personally im just gonna resolve it with my opponent before every game but anyway, it gives them a +3 to all their cover saves, even in the open. They will become great IC carriers in this edition. with the buff to rending they also became our best (or second best) unit for dealing with termies.

-leith got alot better with the ability to ignore armor, but still suffers from S3. bringing along a farseer with doom puts her in a good place though, so its worth considering.

-wyches lost alot in this edition but they still have 2 things going for them: no loss of tarpit abilities and haywire grenades. Instead of worrying about them getting stuck in with a vehicle for a couple turns its pretty much garanteed that they can kill any vehicle in one assult. also, they still tarpit deathstars great with invoun saves and shardnets. remember that shardnets affect all models in base contact, not just one, so your very likely to drop 4 attacks off an enemy squad, which is great. couple them with disinegrator ravagers and its still a strong list.

-razorwing flocks are alot stronger as well with rending changes. im going to start taking them en masse.

-Jetbikes are SUPER strong now with the ability to get great cover saves and kite. any footslogging termie list is gonna have to deal with squads of ravagers taking potshots at them and then ducking back out of sight or charge range. Ill still use heat lances on them because thats what i like, but if your not up against a MEQ list (rare, i know) then haywire blasters may be the way to go. Also, their bladevayne rule might be useful now with casualty allocation and the impact hits make them somewhat viable in CC.

Personally the list im going to run is still raider wyches but ill have 2 squads of jetbikes up the flanks to pick off vehicles and termies and scourges deepstriking to drop any nasty vehicle that has to go. harlies will be objective denyers and termie hunters and ravagers will be there to focus down big targets. i may add a good sized beast herd for more speed and rending power.

- archons court just got really good with shooting against highest toughness. shooting now goes against majority toughness, so you take a couple ur-gouls (the T5 guys) and the unit counts as toughness 5 for all purposes. im not 100% sure this works in cc but i know it works against shooting. pretty sure it works in cc too. I plan to give my archon two ur-gouls as bodyguards which will give the unit majority toughness of 5 and you can still take saves on the archon if hes closest. makes him much harder to kill.

Ur-Ghuls are only T3. Sslyths are T5. However you can't create a non majority when the archon joins the unit. To create a non majority in toughness you need 3 Sslyth to create a non majority in the unit. The unit will look ilke this 3 Sslyths, 1 Lhaemaen, 1 Medusae, 1 Ur-Ghul. The problem occurs when the Archon joins the unit and the majority is T3 now.

-deep striking scourges with haywire blasters are awesome now if you take a squad of 10. thats 4 blasters anywhere on the table. pretty much garantees a vehicle of any sort dead when they come in. and if the worst happens and you miss one or two, reavers can jump in and finish the vehicle off pretty easily.

There is no reason to DS these guys anymore. They have a 36" reach. Put them in cover and start them on the board so they can start glancing dead stuff right away. If anything, this is the use for WWPs to put them on the table with no risk. A 36" reach from a WWP to target is better than risking a deepstrike for no reason...especially since 10 scourges isn't cheap.

-WWP is terrible, i gotta disagree with the OP. You can deliver units closer, sure, but unless those units are maxed out squads of warriors or wyches in terrian, they will be instagibbed before they can do anything. 9 rapid fire bolters and a flamer will slaughter any of our infantry, or at least render them useless.

My experience using them tells me otherwise. Combining Bikes, Hellions, Scourges out of the portal with Wyches allows the wyches to be screened long enough to move into position. Like I said, more thought will be needed to place models when you are using one.

-razorwing flocks are alot stronger as well with rending changes. im going to start taking them en masse.

Razoring flocks are not stronger they are weaker as allocation isn't as good for them now. I'd say they are a push overall between 5th and 6th. They have no save vs most guns...which means they'll have to bring up the rear in the unit along with the beastmasters. That means most firepower will be landing on your Khaemerae first...that isn't good either as that's your bread and butter of the unit. Thus adding a clawed fiend to the front...he will have to take all the wounds from the pool first before moving onto the next set of wounds.

-Jetbikes are SUPER strong now with the ability to get great cover saves and kite. any footslogging termie list is gonna have to deal with squads of ravagers taking potshots at them and then ducking back out of sight or charge range. Ill still use heat lances on them because thats what i like, but if your not up against a MEQ list (rare, i know) then haywire blasters may be the way to go. Also, their bladevayne rule might be useful now with casualty allocation and the impact hits make them somewhat viable in CC.

Jetbikes can't take Haywire blasters. But yes, they are one of the more effective units in the book now.

-wyches lost alot in this edition but they still have 2 things going for them: no loss of tarpit abilities and haywire grenades. Instead of worrying about them getting stuck in with a vehicle for a couple turns its pretty much garanteed that they can kill any vehicle in one assult. also, they still tarpit deathstars great with invoun saves and shardnets. remember that shardnets affect all models in base contact, not just one, so your very likely to drop 4 attacks off an enemy squad, which is great. couple them with disinegrator ravagers and its still a strong list.

To me, wyches will be a full squad, or a small squad. In between squad sizes will be a waste. Big squads to assault a stuff but still keep their numbers high enough to win. Small squads to harass and chuck haywire grenades in the shooting phase at vehicles to strip hull points away. As a direct combat unit now...they may only be worth it by switching to Power Axes and Power Spears.

CaptKaruthors wrote:After mulling through the codex and playing a few games this is what I've seen:
• Incubi will be used again. The Klaivex upgrade is mandatory and demi klaives are a must (only AP2 weapon in the codex). Onslaught and especially Murderous assault is worth taking now. Remember, the Klaivex is a character which means precision strikes. Also, they will be masters of challenges as Murderous assault gives them Preferred Enemy vs. IC's
• Wyches will require a WWP for delivery + deployment tricks. Putting them in Raiders now is a waste of time. Bigger units will be used.
• Beastpacks will need to include Clawed Fiends now to absorb damage. You will also need to increase their unit size for them to be effective. They still are a viable assault unit.
• Harlequins may serve a purpose in the DE list. Rending is a boon, and you have 3 characters in the squad that can precision strike stuff. Death Jesters bring a Str6 gun to the table for DE and Fusion Pistols are still gold. Veil took a slight hit, but with Nightfighting...makes them still very durable.
• Trueborn with blasters aren't really worth it anymore. With the extra reach of rapid fire guns...these guys are now overpriced and die immediately with the new allocation rules since you have to get close with the important stuff and the AP2 bonus is a red herring. It basically makes the damage chart like the old one...thus the odds of killing a vehicle remains largely unchanged. I lost mine after one shooting phase in every game. It was ridiculous. I'm thinking of switching to trueborn with Dark Lances. They can sit back in cover and shoot stuff. 5 man squads with 2 DLs may be better.
• WWPs aren't that bad. They will be used more to deliver scoring units closer to objectives without getting pounded by rapid fire shooting.

The Klaivex with demiklaves is good but a huge amount of points to just be MSS to death. He has his place now, to help out in assault, but frankly DE arent that good in assault in 6th and he is still a point sink.
Wyches cannot assault out of a WWP so having them come out is rather moot. Better to have wracks coming out to grab objectives. Still with the reserve rules its probably better to just DS scoring hellions in.
Beastpacks lose a lot with the new wound allocations meaning you cant choose what shots to put on what kinds of models. razorwings get eaten by str6, clawed fiends get taken by anti tank and kymera get mass boltered
Quins in the DE codex have not been FAQed so they still have the old viel. The eldar codex currently has both shrouded and stealth and the old viel meaning that they are worthin taking. Note that you cannot have shrouded and stealth more than once, so at night quins are no harder to see.
Trueborn are ok with the new snapfire rules but yeah they never were that good. better to ally in firedragons.
As before, why take an expensive portal that could die or be surounded when you can just DS hellions

Exergy wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:So by splitting of the Haemy and declaring his charge first, you are forcing your opponent to either overwatch him (like you want them to) or, save his overwatch for the wyches but risk having the Haemy make it into assault and tying his unit up.

So, if the Haemy makes it into assault and ties up the unit, the wyches can then assault w/o fear of overwatch? This is all the same assault phase, right?

once there are units in btb you cannot overwatch

Gotcha, thanks everyone for clearing this up.

Exergy wrote:Quins in the DE codex have not been FAQed so they still have the old viel. The eldar codex currently has both shrouded and stealth and the old viel meaning that they are worthin taking. Note that you cannot have shrouded and stealth more than once, so at night quins are no harder to see.

When the new Dark Eldar book and initial FAQ were released, without anything regarding Harlequins, I was told to refer to the Eldar FAQ in regards to Harlequins by the local Games Workshop manager.
So that's what I did, and that's what I'm going to continue doing. And frankly, anyone with an iota of sense will realise that being there's absolutely no data in the Dark Eldar FAQ about it, this is the logical thing to do.

Ovion wrote:

Exergy wrote:Quins in the DE codex have not been FAQed so they still have the old viel. The eldar codex currently has both shrouded and stealth and the old viel meaning that they are worthin taking. Note that you cannot have shrouded and stealth more than once, so at night quins are no harder to see.

When the new Dark Eldar book and initial FAQ were released, without anything regarding Harlequins, I was told to refer to the Eldar FAQ in regards to Harlequins by the local Games Workshop manager.
So that's what I did, and that's what I'm going to continue doing. And frankly, anyone with an iota of sense will realise that being there's absolutely no data in the Dark Eldar FAQ about it, this is the logical thing to do.

I think common sense tells me to treat the harlies like the ones listed in the eldar faq. dont see why they would be different.

how does vect suck now? he still has PE, a 2++, decent shooting and a power maul. granted he wont chop up termies quite as nice, but anything else he just rocks them.

DarthSpader wrote:how does vect suck now? he still has PE, a 2++, decent shooting and a power maul. granted he wont chop up termies quite as nice, but anything else he just rocks them.

Is his weapons considered a power maul? or just a power weapon? either way his attaks wont ignore armor like in 5th. He doesnt suck, just cost alot.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:how does vect suck now? he still has PE, a 2++, decent shooting and a power maul. granted he wont chop up termies quite as nice, but anything else he just rocks them.

Is his weapons considered a power maul? or just a power weapon? either way his attaks wont ignore armor like in 5th. He doesnt suck, just cost alot.

he always wounds on 3+ and is AP3. Not a power maul. He costs too much for what he does. He just fails against any character with a 2+ and that is most of them.

He was always too expensive for what he did
The only times I've taken him is for an extra ravager (with a cheap as possible warrior squad or something) or in a gag list with a vectstar of Vect, a haemy / drazhar and 8 incubi ( with klaivex naturally )

Ovion wrote:He was always too expensive for what he did
The only times I've taken him is for an extra ravager (with a cheap as possible warrior squad or something) or in a gag list with a vectstar of Vect, a haemy / drazhar and 8 incubi ( with klaivex naturally )

He gives PE to the Squad he joins though now right? That might make him more of an interesting tool.

And good catch on ICs not joining infiltrators Ovion. That's a bit disappointing. I still think Mandrakes are more viable in 6th then they were in 5th as they legitimately threaten vehicles (AC10 rear at least), and the changes to overwatch changes the dynamics between them and wyches a bit (Mandrakes being a bit more survivable to pew pew), plus they are still the only Outflankers DE have without allies. FWIW.

I find it funny how people are already claiming absolutes in a gaming system 5 days old, FAQs that will be updated, and 11+ different armies.

Its almost like people are expecting 20 terminators and 5 flyers to show up in every army they face.

I know of only two Necron armies in my area and have only ever played against one. His lord with MSS died very quickly because it was obvious where he was and I made sure to kill him. He ran his guy out, killed a unit and then every gun in my army shot at him until dead. He didn't make his points back.

The point is, every codex has scary guys. You just have to bring yours. And if you don't have one, then the author of your army wasn't Matt Ward. So then ally with a Ward codex to even the playing field.

Things that were overcosted in 5th. Even if they got a boost in 6th, are still probably over costed. Things that were undercosted in 5th are probably still undercosted in 6th.

Yes there are somethings that look bad. But maybe bringing 15 wyches out of a WWP wont be such a bad thing if you bring out something scary as well.

I really think 5 days is a little too early to claim the death of a unit. And there will always be someone (like me) who is sticking with his raider borne wyches because they now act as a counter charge unit instead of a front line assault.

Yes there are somethings that look bad. But maybe bringing 15 wyches out of a WWB wont be such a bad thing if you bring out something scary as well.

Good points all around by Jayden, this one in particular. And, as a WWP runner I can tell you that anytime I played an experienced general they didn't allow a whole lot of opportunity to assault the first turn out of the WWP anyway, so that nerf, as said as it makes me, really only puts the foam on our Baby Seal clubs.

3+ to reserves is a pretty significant buff to WWP reserves as well, also Autarchs will help this yes?




Another thought on Mandrakes. Sergs/heavy/special weapons will be hanging out in the rear or formations now. Have a unit that can come on the board edge and pew pew from behind will have special viability in 6th that didn't exist in 5th, provided of course IF you can get them the PT to make it work.

Someone briefly mention this in a YMDC thread...

Model your Archon with a Power Ax!

AP2 +1 STR goodness!

Only bad thing that it's Init 1.

Vexator mask might be worth taking?

Here's the relevent rule:

Page 61, under power weapons.
"If a model's warger says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has:.."

Not exactly game breaking... but, it's another HQ dude to take on 2+ armor...

CaptKaruthors wrote:• Adding Power Axes or Power Spears to Hekatrixes will be better overall than Agonizers.

The issue I'm having, is I find Wyches lack the devestating first charge to justify the spear, and without a second character in the unit, taking an axe exposes your Hekatrix to challenges if you assault a competent melee unit, which is the main thing I task my wyches with (other than now nading tanks down too) but then, at 20 points it's kind of hard to justify the agonizer now.

I'm actually leaning towards opting for the cheaper venom blade myself, but I definitely plan to stick axes into units with 2 characters, one (generally a haemonculus) being the slow axe wielder and the other keeping high Initiative for taking down enemy characters in challenges.

I'm fairly shocked by the pessimism about DE. I remember how my IG parking lots beat DE before, and with this new edition, DE can really stop trying to miraculously crack armor with cost-inneffective dark lances, and use wyches to open the transports. Transports which, in my opinion, will soon be a lot less common.

If anyone hasn't really let the grenade buffs sink in... the new rules + haywire grenades is bonkers over the top. Seven wyches kill a land raider on average. Haywire grenade wyches just dominate walkers. The only thing wyches aren't great at is high toughness infantry and 2+ armor save infantry.

Dark eldar's ranged game is much more points efficient when shooting at high toughness or 2+ armor, than when it is trying to crack armor. Razorwings and ravagers with disintegrators can do plenty of work against terminators, where the incredible splinter cannon can just hammer monstrous creatures and high toughness units from downtown.


A couple of boogeymen to dispel.

"my wyches are going to get shredded by overwatch"
-you get to choose what you want to charge. The transports and other vehicles you are charging aren't going to be able to save themselves with enough volume.
-if you have wych based anti-infantry, you are going to have an archon... lets see what happens to wyches charging grey hunters. 20 bolter snaps, 3-4 hits, 3 wounds, all saved by shadow field, any that don't will be look out sirred to wyches 6" from the front of the unit.
-as was mentioned before, charging first with an IC or a reaver unit makes it even worse, units locked in combat may not overwatch.

"flyer spam will dominate the game"
-flyers are non-scoring, non-denial units. Let those vendettas durdle around and shoot their lascannons at your primarily infantry army.
-I'm not sure people have played with flyers enough yet. the mostly fixed position weapon arcs and restrictive 90 degree max turn, plus the minimum forward movement will really balance out their extra survivability.

"WWP is crap now"
-In all of my tournament games during 5th edition, I can't recall a game when I let anyone get a WWP charge off on me. And that includes beastmaster spam. The early turns and reserves work in a very predictable way. This new rule, as was just mentioned, doesn't change the competitive game.
-For 70 points you can get a comms relay and 32" of 4+ cover that can be deployed on the center line of the table. Wyches have plasma grenades so they don't care if the enemy tries to use the walls themselves. Walk your wrack unit with haemonculus up behind an aegis, right where you placed one of your objectives, throw your WWP, activate the comms next turn for an 89% arrival rate on the wyches. Wyches who will move 6" plus a re-rollable run move right up to table center and enjoy their 4+ cover. If its not time for them to join the game, they can G2G behind the aegis for 2+ cover saves.


As I see it, and I'll admit that I have been away from 5th edition for a few months, this is how the next few months are going to go.

wych spam and genestealer spam are going to push people completely out of mech spam over the next two months. People will start packing flamers and bigger units to hit genestealers and wyches with more painful overwatches in the following two months as the game starts to stabilize, and then people will start fielding sturdy anti-infantry ranged shots as more foot targets emerge. Dark eldar don't have any problem finding long ranged anti-infantry that can slug it out with other foot based armies.

As the game gets out of the vehicle spam, the incredible buffing that independent characters got is going to rear its ugly head. The high initiative shadow field toting dark eldar will enjoy this trend.

That's just my wild-eyed speculation, its silly to call it anything more than that, but one thing I remember saying when I was trying so desperately to get tyranids to work in 5th edition was that if close combat against vehicles was ever a viable option, this game would turn on its head. Tyranids don't have to spend three elite slots and 450 points on hive guard, and dark eldar don't have to burn three heavy slots and three elite slots for 9 dark lances and 12 blasters. Aside from flyers, you can run lists with entirely close combat answers to vehicles and be fine.

And I expect a release wave of anti-flyers, complete with white dwarf rules, just as soon as they finish getting our money for all the flyers.