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BoxANT wrote:Think of a squad of three AV12 Sentinels charging a squad of BloodCrushers (not hard to do actually). Assuming a Monster does come over and ruin your fun, you could tie up a whole squad for the game!

There's no need for a Monster to save them, that's what Fury(Rending) is for.

I cant think of any army that would auto lose to that, guard tanks are so easily destroyed in HtH now, and the armies that lack HtH punch usually shoot like the dickens.

I agree though, that the Guard sound like they are going to be FAR more competetive and will be able to take on all comers with a lot better chance of winning.

The only downside (if the rumors are true) is tha tnow like Orks, winning with Guard will not be so satisfying as it was! But that is a very minor complaint!

I'd take half those new rumors from warseer worth a grain of salt. They seem very wishlisty. Workshop has consistantly been trying to simplify rules. Those rules make things more complicated, not less which is the opposite direction Workshop has been going. We'll just have to wait and see.

Ivan wrote:Also, has anyone given any thought to how a swarm of arm 12 support sentinels would play? Assuming you can squadron them as fast attack choices you're talking 9 or more arm12 walkers.

I have heard rumors of them being in Elite and more recently of them taking a Heavy slot, I doubt the heavy sentinel will be FA. Ogryns might still be a better tarpit unit though.


I don't see how the new IG would be more complicated than anything else in the game. And I don't see them as being an overpowered army either, guard could always fit ridiculous amounts of firepower in a force org chart. People aren't putting 400 troops AND 9 Leman Russ(which rumors say is more expensive) in the same army. Just they will be even with other competitive armies for once.

Hulksmash wrote:I'd take half those new rumors from warseer worth a grain of salt. They seem very wishlisty. Workshop has consistantly been trying to simplify rules. Those rules make things more complicated, not less which is the opposite direction Workshop has been going. We'll just have to wait and see.

Erm. How was the new SM Codex an effort to simplify rules? While stuff like C:CSM and CA were simplifications, with C:SM, I wouldn't quite say that GW has been consistent about it.

With C:CSM, they sure as hell took the complexity doen from "Damn!" to "Wot?!"

Random abilities for Penal Legion? No doubt rolled after deployment.

GW - A Bunch of fething Morons

Down! Go to ground with +1 cover save (ie the unit can't shoot for this turn).

What's the point of this? do you get a go to ground bonus AND this order bonus? if not its kind of pointless. Unless you mean they can still assault and just not shoot.

Veteran squads are a seperate troops choice and are much like they are now (no details were mentioned though).

This is SICKKKK. Outflank a couple of vet squads near the end of a round to get some last minute contests/ point captures.

Large units of untrained criminals pressed into service, coming into play with a mish-mash of abilities?

Ridiculous.

AffliKtion wrote:

Down! Go to ground with +1 cover save (ie the unit can't shoot for this turn).

What's the point of this? do you get a go to ground bonus AND this order bonus? if not its kind of pointless. Unless you mean they can still assault and just not shoot.

I think he means that they end up getting +2 overall.

@Death by Monkeys

Compared to the last book they took out a lot of the complexity. Also the new marine book is very easy to understand when you look at it. That wasn't the case with the last marine codex. Not to mention they made the codex easier for opponents. We don't have to guess what traits they have or don't have anymore. So I'd say they have consistantly strived to make rules more streamlined. And most of the last batch from Warseer don't do that at all.

On a different note personally i think the "tank" rule is more likely to be +1 on the damage chart as though it was AP1 not +1ST. We'll just have to see.

Hulksmash wrote:On a different note personally i think the "tank" rule is more likely to be +1 on the damage chart as though it was AP1 not +1ST. We'll just have to see.

The rumours seem to indicate giving the Tank Hunters USR(+1 to the penetration roll), not an actual +1 Strength.

Defiler wrote:

AffliKtion wrote:

Down! Go to ground with +1 cover save (ie the unit can't shoot for this turn).

What's the point of this? do you get a go to ground bonus AND this order bonus? if not its kind of pointless. Unless you mean they can still assault and just not shoot.

I think he means that they end up getting +2 overall.

I'm hoping =D

Hulksmash wrote:Compared to the last book they took out a lot of the complexity. Also the new marine book is very easy to understand when you look at it. That wasn't the case with the last marine codex. Not to mention they made the codex easier for opponents. We don't have to guess what traits they have or don't have anymore. So I'd say they have consistantly strived to make rules more streamlined. And most of the last batch from Warseer don't do that at all.

Okay, I see what you mean by that. There was a lot of confusion over traits and such. However, I don't think there are any fewer rules for SM - they've just streamlined how they're presented, so instead of taking traits, you take a special character instead. But yeah, you make a good point there.

Do they still have the tank hunters USR? I thought that was one that got dropped. I haven't checked the rule book but is it still a rule? If it is then I could easily see this happening as an order.

@Death by Monkeys

Thanks Mostly I'm trying to look at the brightest side without going Over the Top so that i'm disapointed when the book comes out.

Hulksmash wrote:Do they still have the tank hunters USR? I thought that was one that got dropped. I haven't checked the rule book but is it still a rule? If it is then I could easily see this happening as an order.

It's on page 76, between Swarms and Turbo-boosters. I can see why you'd think it isn't there, though, since almost no 5th Ed Codex has a unit with it(Sicarius can hand it out, though).

Platuan4th wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Do they still have the tank hunters USR? I thought that was one that got dropped. I haven't checked the rule book but is it still a rule? If it is then I could easily see this happening as an order.

It's on page 76, between Swarms and Turbo-boosters. I can see why you'd think it isn't there, though, since almost no 5th Ed Codex has a unit with it(Sicarius can hand it out, though).

Eldar Firedragons can still take it, as can Black Tempar command squads, veterans, and terminators.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Random abilities for Penal Legion? No doubt rolled after deployment.

It might not be that bad, if indeed the squad has Infiltrate and Stubborn as standard, as the earlier rumors indicated, because those two skills will always make them at least somewhat useful. Also, you can outflank them, which at least gives you some control where they come out. It's not quite the same as the Possessed where the squad's entire role is tied with that one random roll.

Hulksmash wrote:I'd take half those new rumors from warseer worth a grain of salt. They seem very wishlisty. Workshop has consistantly been trying to simplify rules. Those rules make things more complicated, not less which is the opposite direction Workshop has been going. We'll just have to wait and see.

Gotta disagree the vanguard's special ammo, the LS storm rules, the scout biker rules all are more complex. I think there was (another) reversal inside GW and we're only seeing it now.

Hmmm it could be that GW just wants the IG to be the Special Hardcore gamers and modellers army.

So they stick this new huge variety of units and approaches to which people can have an Imperial alternative to
marines. However Guard are no where near the cheapest army to collect...or paint....or play!! guard from my opinion
isn't a real beginner army. So they give all this stuff in there which makes them especially attractive to someone who
is willing to get the best out of the combined arms approach. Just an idea

And yes it doesn't hurt that GW totally profits by making a very attractive army one that they can make extra scratch with

So hopefully if all the rumors are even 50% true (including a better fix for kill points The Future Blob platoon) guard will be
very awesome indeed

The latest thing that has Warseer abuzz is a rumor that Stormtroopers are getting bumped up to 16 points. A number of posters are discounting that rumor as absurd, but there is some speculation as to what could possibly be added to make a stormtrooper worth that much.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:I'd take half those new rumors from warseer worth a grain of salt. They seem very wishlisty. Workshop has consistantly been trying to simplify rules. Those rules make things more complicated, not less which is the opposite direction Workshop has been going. We'll just have to wait and see.

Gotta disagree the vanguard's special ammo, the LS storm rules, the scout biker rules all are more complex. I think there was (another) reversal inside GW and we're only seeing it now.

Strongly disagree. All the most complicated elements of the Space Marine codex were removed in the update, such as traits, the armory section, veteran skills, whirlwind mines, and so on.

Raxmei wrote:The latest thing that has Warseer abuzz is a rumor that Stormtroopers are getting bumped up to 16 points. A number of posters are discounting that rumor as absurd, but there is some speculation as to what could possibly be added to make a stormtrooper worth that much.

Power armor and +1 WS, S, T, a bolter and ATSKNF? Yeah, my 30 stormies would never see the light of day for 16 pts a model. An AP3 Hellgun is not worth that.

Getting constantly raped by old codex infantry IG spam, I think most of those rumors are freaking ridiculous. I see no point finishing my CSM army now. I wonder how many people will start their IG armies just to keep up with the metagame...

You're getting beaten by IG infantry spam at the moment?
Well, you're probably in a minority there.

Polonius wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:It's on page 76, between Swarms and Turbo-boosters. I can see why you'd think it isn't there, though, since almost no 5th Ed Codex has a unit with it(Sicarius can hand it out, though).

Eldar Firedragons can still take it, as can Black Tempar command squads, veterans, and terminators.

Both of those are 4th Ed Codecii.

I think that's why I got confused. No new books were coming out with it as a special rule. My bad and I stand corrected. Thanks Plat

Uszaty wrote:Getting constantly raped by old codex infantry IG spam, I think most of those rumors are freaking ridiculous. I see no point finishing my CSM army now. I wonder how many people will start their IG armies just to keep up with the metagame...

Seriously?

Uszaty wrote:Getting constantly raped by old codex infantry IG spam, I think most of those rumors are freaking ridiculous. I see no point finishing my CSM army now. I wonder how many people will start their IG armies just to keep up with the metagame...

If you have trouble against the current imperial guard, then your problems are with your own army, not with that of others. Your army obviously needs serious help; I recommend posting your army list on the appropriate forum to get some feedback.

Death By Monkeys wrote:And it still doesn't tell me whether the LRBT squadrons are 0-1 or not or whether or not these squadrons are LRBT only or if you can run variants in them.

Russ tanks of all variants may be taken in squadrons of 1-3.

You can mix and match as you like.

There's a tank commander upgrade character too-- Cronus (sp ?the marine guy) lite. Usefull enough though for certain weapons I'd suggest.


Basic infantry come with frga as standard, they have to pay for krak.

Book looks very nice indeed.

LOTS of special rules.

I especially liked the option for rending penal troopers.

Basic orders :

First rank, 2nd rank-- extra shot so goes to 3 shots/2 shots.

"Cover" -- not it's name-- +2 on your cover save.

MOve. move move, run, roll 3d6 take highest.

HQ command squads have those plus extra one :

BRING IT DOWN ! SQuad becomes twin linked when shooting at tanks, MCs or units/squadrons thereof.

Think they have some auto rally one as well-- this might even unpin them if tehy have dropped for the save.

Orders are given in the shotting phase--AT THE BEGINNING. If a unit activates by doing something before orders are given-- ie if you space out for a moment-- that unit cannot use orders this turn.

Orders are placed in command sequence, so HQ orders first, then platon level, etc etc.

HQ squads can issue 2, normal platoon ( I think) 1. Creed can issue 4--he is the daddy in this book.

LD test to understand. double 1 pass and can even take another order. pass--well....they pass. FAIL-- can act normally. Double 6 they mill about and do nothing.

Options galore everywhere.

Vets are a seprate option. They get booby traps etc = defensive grenades.