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I think it's important to clarify/reiterate that the Warpshadow poster said there would be four new species that have never appeared in a codex before.

I agree that Gargs, Tyrants, etc. would seem to be likely candidates for plastic kits. But the number of new plastic kits for a given release is always limited to what, around 4-5 or so? So if the Trygon gets a plastic kit, does that mean the other three new units are metal? If so, they'd likely be something you wouldn't field in large numbers.

I wonder if the Malanthrope and/or large Spore Sacks might have made the jump from FW?

Clang wrote:New plastic boxes will be Trygon, Gargoyles, and 2 different types of gaunt (just a recut of the existing sprues), I reckon. Maybe also a recut of the warriors, especially if they get any new options (I too agree they'll become a hot unit this codex).

Hive Tyrant? - I sure hope so, but even if it came with wings and all gribbly options, would GW sell enough of them? Still, if they can tempt every nid player to buy 1 or 2, I guess that adds up...

That'd be nice.... even if it WAS my 4th Tyrant... My metal ones seem to be too damn top-heavy (see 4th edition Tyrant before the rebuild), and I seem to be spending more and more time trying to repair them after they take a header.
It'd be nice if GW would release wing sets for 'Nids that weren't from FW... maybe in like a Bitz pack or something... having half your Warriors with wings without dropping the cost of the models all over again for wings would be pretty cool.

gorgon wrote:I think it's important to clarify/reiterate that the Warpshadow poster said there would be four new species that have never appeared in a codex before.

I agree that Gargs, Tyrants, etc. would seem to be likely candidates for plastic kits. But the number of new plastic kits for a given release is always limited to what, around 4-5 or so? So if the Trygon gets a plastic kit, does that mean the other three new units are metal? If so, they'd likely be something you wouldn't field in large numbers.

We are probably looking at a minimum of two waves here. Using IG as an example we had a wave one with...

WAVE 1

2 repackaged troops kits
2 all new (2 sprue) HQ kits
1 all new small vehicle kit
1 all new large vehicle kit
1 new metal blister (elite unit)
1 new metal blister (character)
1 new metal blister (character)
1 new metal blister (advisors)

WAVE 2

1 all new regular sized vehicle
1 all new regular sized vehicle
1 new metal blister (character)
1 new metal blister (character)

So thats 2 repackaged infantry, 6 metal blisters, 2 new infantry boxes, and 4 vehicle kits (2 regular sized one large and one small)

gaunts and hormagaunts (2 repackaged)
biovore unit (new infantry box)
trygon (large vehicle kit)
gargoyles (new infantry box)
raveners (vehicle sized kit)
hive tyrant (vehicle sized kit)

This leaves a vehicle sized kit and 6 metal blisters for special characters, new units, or resculpts of things like lictors and zoanthropes.

If they broke the waves similar to IG, then they'd lead off with their big offering... the trygon, bring out the infantry repackaging, and probably hit us with the hive tyrant as well. They'd have room in the release for one more plastic kit, and about half of any SC blisters or new unit blisters. Then in 3-6 months they could hit us with the rest. Just a couple more plastic kits and a smattering of metal.

Do you think they'd redo the Tyrant, Biovore, Raveners and Lictor?

Keep in mind that these guys have been redesigned for each and every Codex release - there have been three Tyranid Codices, and there are three Tyrant models, three Biovore models, two Ravener (didn't exist in 2nd Ed) and 3 Lictor models. Ditto for 'Fexes actually.

The most recent redesigns were Jes unifying the range again and fixing the mistakes of the previous range, like the smiling Carnifex, the big-jawed Raveners, the atrocious Lictor, the Gorilla Biovore and the Alien Queen Hive Tyrant.

I just can't see them redoing any of those.

Recut Gaunts (new staple of 'Nid armies)
Recut Warriors (awesome new rules)
Plastic Gargoyles (bad rules - every Codex has one)
Trygon (the 'new' Carnifex - can probably take it in every FoC slot)

And then I don't know. Special Characters... yay. Jervishammer strikes again, so even 'Nids get named characters.

I don't see the Carnifex or Tyrant being redone, unless the Tyrant is switched over to plastic...

I think H.B's got it right, with Gaunts being a big ingredient in the new armies. I don't know if the Warriors are going to be recut, 'cause I think they look decent at this point in time. I don't know if you'll be able to put the Trygon anywhere - it'll just be fighting with the Carnifex for FOC spots - but maybe having the option of Fast Attack or Elites...

I hate Special Characters for 'Nids. The idea is that it's a horde of creatures... not a couple with extra fluff.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

And then I don't know. Special Characters... yay. Jervishammer strikes again, so even 'Nids get named characters.

Yeah, they've never had those before!!*

Blame Jervis!! Raaaaargh!!




*(except in 3rd ed...)

Special Characters on Nids not even maybe. Its supposed to be a horde of unthinking animalistic creatures not anthropomorphic bugs.

Hmm so trygon may be in the codex. It sorta fits with what went on with the IG codex. The downgrading of apocalypse units to codex units may be becoming a common theme.

Ole red eye was a special character for Bugs in the past wasnt it?

Indeed it was, as was The Red Terror!

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, they've never had those before!!*

Blame Jervis!! Raaaaargh!!

I know they existed. Don't be obtuse.

Special Characters for 'Nids was a dumb idea in 3rd, and it's a dumb idea now.

I agree. I know it's easy to blame Jervis for everything but c'mon, this is something that Nids had 10 years ago.

There were a lot of 3rd ed models that I actually preferred to what nids have now.
3rd ed Raveners looked more vicious despite the oversized jaw. Their claws may have been a bit large, but now Raveners look squishy, with stubby little claws. 'Nids for kids' is what they make me think of.
I liked the alien queen Hive Tyrant because it looked very much like the rest of the army. 3rd ed did a great job giving nids a uniform appearance. Which is the way such an army should appear imho.
I also preferred the 3rd ed lictor because it's big mantis claws were actually claws! Not those harmless looking antenna-things they have now...

I hope Nids get the right tweaks, but GW never seems to quite get it right...

With any luck they will do away with nidzilla
Just too boring


things i hope for if they get a change:

Spikerifles and strangler webs added back into the dex
Re-do the bonesword, its rules are gak.
Give the biovores back some hitting power.
Drop fex limit, 6 is just annoying.
Add a new HQ unit along the lines of a broodlord.
Make gaunts the mainstay units in the army (lets face it, they need to be)
Make gargoyles somewhat more interesting, they are too plain.
Warriors need to be made better, for a stand-in HQ unit they are terrible at the moment.



Now, on the lines of decent models:

I want the old old tyrant back
Same edition lictor back would also be nice.

Fex wise - current one seems fine, allthough i do like mr chuckles, the previous fex model.


Special characters:

Red terror - Just make him a new breed of ravenor, just with higher stats, points and a 1 per army cap limit.

Old one eye - somewhat pointless? we can make him using current rules, only better.

Ozymandias wrote:I agree. I know it's easy to blame Jervis for everything but c'mon, this is something that Nids had 10 years ago.

Back when Jervis was active in 3rd Ed. He was around during those days, and only dropped off during the second round of 3rd Ed Codices and then most of 4th Ed.

He returns and BANG, Dark Angel Codex, mandatory non-special Special Characters. Then Orks, filled with new Special Characters. Then Daemons with more Special Characters. Marines with Vulkan, then Guard with Creed and Sly and so on.

He's the driving force behind this, so if 'Nids get mandatory FoC altering non-special Special Characters, it will because of his design ethos rubbing off on the rest of the team. I hate that so many power builds rely on Special Characters. We made fun of the fact that Eldrad shows up everywhere, but it's true.

I liked to Tyranid special characters to a degree. They illustrated how a wayward Tyranid creature left behind on some long lost world or separated from its fleet can become a beast of legend to the cultures that encounter it who don't know any better. I know that wasn't entirely the case with Old One Eye and the Red Terror, but it opened up the possibility that separated creatures were still Tyranids, and still hyper evolved like Tyranids, so that were they ever reclaimed the super nid that had to become so powerful to survive alone benefitted the race as a whole.

I like the idea of what you guys are calling Special Characters being in the 'nids book. I don't believe they will be Special Characters per se but rather Hive fleet signatures.

Something to help differentiate between the fleets(And to help sell more models).Each Hive fleet will have its own bio-morph specialty due to the enemies they have faced. Think of this as a tyranid version of craftworlds, only the special character model just represents a non-standard force organizations from different evolutionary strains.

I know that I'm in the minority with this so I'll just sit back and listen now.

I think there should be a 'Tyranid Monstrosity' section that is essentially there to represent the ultra-specific mutations and genuses that the Hive Mind has created for very specific purposes. In other words, they are not unique creatures, but instead very rare creatures that only show up when the Hive Mind needs them.

The Red Terror is a good example of that - it was somethign the Hive Mind evolved out of necessity. So the Red Terror chould show up anywhere as it's genetic 'blueprint' (so to speak) has been 'saved' by the Hive Mind, and should it encounter any more similar situations, it can always 'load it up' and make a few more.

During the Revisited Project I started writing such a section, including creatures such as the Icharian Spectre (hyper-evolved Lictor used to stalk the Hives of Ichar IV at the start of Kraken's invasion) and the Thandros Slayer (stupidly-powerful psychic construct made to compat the power of the Telepathica Matrix in Thandros during Hive Fleet Behemoth).

I just wish that gaunts can be played like the fluff uses them..fodder. They should be worth no Kill points, have WON built in, and only genestealers and Synapse creatures should be able to hold objectives...

Of course, that would be hard army to balance, but it would play very differently than any other army. Ahh, to dream..

AdeptSister wrote:I just wish that gaunts can be played like the fluff uses them..fodder. They should be worth no Kill points, have WON built in, and only genestealers and Synapse creatures should be able to hold objectives...

That's actually a pretty cool idea. I really like that.

*appropriates*

Hang on, is the Death Leaper gone and done with? I know GW made a big fuss of this one during Medusa 5, but is Lictor variant still around or is it just a fancy model with nothing extra now?

Fancy model

BrookM wrote:Hang on, is the Death Leaper gone and done with? I know GW made a big fuss of this one during Medusa 5, but is Lictor variant still around or is it just a fancy model with nothing extra now?

it is just a fancy model now.

I'm hoping we can get some scoring S5 I5 rending rippers for 5 points per base.......

focusedfire wrote:I like the idea of what you guys are calling Special Characters being in the 'nids book. I don't believe they will be Special Characters per se but rather Hive fleet signatures.

Something to help differentiate between the fleets(And to help sell more models).Each Hive fleet will have its own bio-morph specialty due to the enemies they have faced. Think of this as a tyranid version of craftworlds, only the special character model just represents a non-standard force organizations from different evolutionary strains.

I know that I'm in the minority with this so I'll just sit back and listen now.

Actually a good idea... assuming that you'd be able to make the different Hive Fleets out of the same box set... I doubt that making four (is it five now?) different Hive Fleet boxes would sell well, but if you could just add in the req'd biomorphs, I'm sure people would be pounding back boxes of Gaunts.

I thought it was 3; Kraken, Behemoth and Leviathan. The new one is rumoured to be Hydra, like in planetstrike(the one that invaded Cadia in WD)

AdeptSister wrote:I just wish that gaunts can be played like the fluff uses them..fodder. They should be worth no Kill points, have WON built in, and only genestealers and Synapse creatures should be able to hold objectives...

Of course, that would be hard army to balance, but it would play very differently than any other army. Ahh, to dream..

Absolutely. I really, really hope they make this idea happen. If they want to encourage people to use Warriors, this would certainly be a great way to do so.

Bloodthirster wrote:I thought it was 3; Kraken, Behemoth and Leviathan. The new one is rumoured to be Hydra, like in planetstrike(the one that invaded Cadia in WD)

Those are the most popular/largest hive fleets written about. If you read the codex and maybe the rule book it talks about other hive fleets have not been document or that just small. Tiamet - Ouroboris - Colossus

I wouldn't want anything other than Gaunts to be thought of cannon fodder. I'm possibly the only one who feels this way, but I feel like Tyranids lost something in their 3rd edition reimagining, when they became a grinding, steamroller army instead of one that hits fast and hard.

Way back in the early '90s, I got a sneak preview of the unreleased Codex: Tyranids while attending Games Day Baltimore (this is the kind of thing the studio staff used to do if you asked nicely). Anyway, I remember paging through the draft and being blown away at the scary h2h potential of the army. Lictors and Hive Tyrants...off the charts. Genestealers...individually a match for most mid-level characters. Even Hormagaunts were pound-for-pound better than SM. Then you had high-flying Gargoyles dropping down and delivering flame template death, nigh unkillable Carnifexes serving as moving walls, etc.

The 2nd edition army was flawed for other reasons. But somehow a lot of that "oomph" and scare factor has been lost. I'd welcome big, grinding Tyranid hordes becoming viable again, but I feel like there should be room for more medium-sized armies built around harder, faster hitters. I suppose part of the reason we haven't seen viable builds is because they really haven't gotten medium bugs right, which is what said medium-sized armies would likely be based around.

So this old-timer's really hoping for a codex that allows not just megahorde and Nidzilla, but something in between also.

Alright, rant off. For what it's worth, someone in the aforementioned Warpshadow thread stated that Phil K. said Tyranids would be evolving to have more viable antitank in the new codex. Which has me optimistic.

Which got me thinking. For those of you nervous about Robin Cruddace being the author, perhaps you can take solace in this. Wouldn't the author of the IG codex -- and all its tanks and mech builds -- know better than anyone the importance of proper antitank in the current edition?

I really liked the way the new IG codex came out, so I'm more than happy the same guy is doing tyranids. I just hope I can get all my new guard stuff done in time to jump back to nids in February

gorgon wrote:So this old-timer's really hoping for a codex that allows not just megahorde and Nidzilla, but something in between also.

I think you'll get that, for semi-competitive play. But for competitive play, only horde will be viable.