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I see that there are literally ways to do it, but it seems like throwing good money after bad. If you're only buffing a single unit, as soon as you spend a CP on it then you might as well have just used a command re-roll instead. If you're taking a lot of assault units to justify the investment, then it really feels like you're not playing to the army's strengths.

99% sure it's turn off an aura ability generated by a model not turn off an aura ability received by one.

In the case of the a unit like, say infiltrators, you just measure the anti deepstrike bubble from models outside of 6" of the copter. Ideally, you ram the thing into the center of the 5 man squad and don't need to worry about it.

 DarkHound wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:Aww, do you think Cawl would be exempt from this?

I was getting excited at Cawls Bots with WOM and Tesla

I have no idea what you mean. What's Tesla?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
The rules all seem really solid so far, I just hope they give us ways to run FW's other than mars and stygies without feeling like we're deliberately gimping ourselves. I wouldn't be surprised though if the custom FW traits can be used to just take outright better versions of stuff like Metalica, graia, agrippina, etc.

I mean it isn't like Metalica was worth anything to begin with. I wouldn't think too hard on it.

I think it's sad any time they homogenize factions. All the other subfactions could be good. It's really not like Mars or Stygies are that much better than the other factions, you still ignore their Forgeworld specific Warlord traits and Relics. Each Forgeworld has several junk elements to it, so adding distinguishing features to the lesser Forgeworlds gives them a leg to stand on.

Graia was the bees knees when they worked with Electropriests, all it needs is a horde of good one wound infantry; it's actually got the full package of a good dogma, Warlord trait, Strat, and arguably the best Relic. Metallica would be fine if only there were more Assault weapons to take advantage of moving and shooting, and they already have a great Warlord trait.

Mars Warlord Trait is actually REALLY good though and adds lots of flexibility to the deployment of your Warlord.

 DarkHound wrote:
I see that there are literally ways to do it, but it seems like throwing good money after bad. If you're only buffing a single unit, as soon as you spend a CP on it then you might as well have just used a command re-roll instead. If you're taking a lot of assault units to justify the investment, then it really feels like you're not playing to the army's strengths.

A command re-roll doesn't help if you roll, say, double 2s.

And there's no need to spend a CP on it. The primary use is going to be with the tried and true "drill full of priests" combo. That doesn't cost you CP, and both the drill and the priests benefit from the reroll (you can charge in your warlord too if you really want to, though usually you won't).

Priests and drills are two of the best units in the army, so it really isn't going against the army's strengths. Priests in particular are a fantastic combat unit, and the primary problem with them has always been getting them into combat. Reroll charges goes a long way towards mitigating that. A prime hermeticon manipulus with reroll charges addresses most of their issues and makes them truly viable IMO.


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RogueApiary wrote:
99% sure it's turn off an aura ability generated by a model not turn off an aura ability received by one.

That's how I'd read it too. The bad grammar is actually unfortunate here - if the apostrophe was there as it should be, it would make it clearer that it's talking about disabling auras the model generates, not models receiving an aura.

This produces less issues, though there will still be some. I would be surprised if there aren't at least a few multi-model units with aura effects that produce really ambiguous or problematic results when you start shutting them down on a model-by-model basis.

Okay, that's fair. It's pretty narrow application, but a meaningful one. You can't have Prime Hermeticon, though, and unfortunately the Omniscient Mask only affects Skitarii units. I guess you can Canticle for re-roll 1's in close combat since +1S doesn't hit a useful breakpoint for Electropriests.

It's a 339 point package, but at least every element benefits. Plus you can throw the Relic mechadentride nest on the Manipulus and make him really fighty.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
I see that there are literally ways to do it, but it seems like throwing good money after bad. If you're only buffing a single unit, as soon as you spend a CP on it then you might as well have just used a command re-roll instead. If you're taking a lot of assault units to justify the investment, then it really feels like you're not playing to the army's strengths.

A command re-roll doesn't help if you roll, say, double 2s.

And there's no need to spend a CP on it. The primary use is going to be with the tried and true "drill full of priests" combo. That doesn't cost you CP, and both the drill and the priests benefit from the reroll (you can charge in your warlord too if you really want to, though usually you won't).

Priests and drills are two of the best units in the army, so it really isn't going against the army's strengths. Priests in particular are a fantastic combat unit, and the primary problem with them has always been getting them into combat. Reroll charges goes a long way towards mitigating that. A prime hermeticon manipulus with reroll charges addresses most of their issues and makes them truly viable IMO.


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RogueApiary wrote:
99% sure it's turn off an aura ability generated by a model not turn off an aura ability received by one.

That's how I'd read it too. The bad grammar is actually unfortunate here - if the apostrophe was there as it should be, it would make it clearer that it's talking about disabling auras the model generates, not models receiving an aura.

This produces less issues, though there will still be some. I would be surprised if there aren't at least a few multi-model units with aura effects that produce really ambiguous or problematic results when you start shutting them down on a model-by-model basis.

Yeah but with the drill you dont benefit from the +1 to charge from the manipulus unless he already was on the battlefield.

Depending on other defensive bonuses, the new Radiant Dogma + something else could be a killer combination for Skitarii infantry

Why couldn't you have prime hermeticon? Oh, are you reading it as joining a holy order is choosing a warlord trait, i.e. you either get a normal warlord trait or you join a holy order?

I wasn't reading it that way initially - I was reading it as you get the following benefits, AND there's also an associated warlord trait that you can pick if you want, but don't have to. But maybe you're right, and these are actually replacement warlord traits, not in addition to them.

 DarkHound wrote:
I see that there are literally ways to do it, but it seems like throwing good money after bad. If you're only buffing a single unit, as soon as you spend a CP on it then you might as well have just used a command re-roll instead. If you're taking a lot of assault units to justify the investment, then it really feels like you're not playing to the army's strengths.

I play admech as a hammer and anvil type of army. Most of my lists include a heavy melee component alongside good firepower.

2 boats of fulgurites / dragoons with a manipulus charge in to give my opponent imminent pressure on turn 1.

dunecrawlers and ryzaphrons provide firepower.

skorpii provide mobility to capture objectives.

Might not be the top competitive way to play them but i've had a lot of success locally playing like that.

i'll often pay 3-4 CP for the scout move

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Yeah but with the drill you dont benefit from the +1 to charge from the manipulus unless he already was on the battlefield.

Definitely. You'd be taking him for the buffs on the turn after you DS in, or for the option to start things on the table (either just him or everything); drills and priests lists are almost always stygies, and you're often choosing between DSing the drills or just starting them on the table and moving them instead.

In any case, it's not like you're gonna take a dominus to be your reroll charge bubble, and an enginseer is an awfully squishy way to deliver key buffs to your combat units.


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 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
I see that there are literally ways to do it, but it seems like throwing good money after bad. If you're only buffing a single unit, as soon as you spend a CP on it then you might as well have just used a command re-roll instead. If you're taking a lot of assault units to justify the investment, then it really feels like you're not playing to the army's strengths.

I play admech as a hammer and anvil type of army. Most of my lists include a heavy melee component alongside good firepower.

2 boats of fulgurites / dragoons with a manipulus charge in to give my opponent imminent pressure on turn 1.

dunecrawlers and ryzaphrons provide firepower.

skorpii provide mobility to capture objectives.

Might not be the top competitive way to play them but i've had a lot of success locally playing like that.

i'll often pay 3-4 CP for the scout move

Charging in T1 isn't necessarily the best way to play that list, but the basic idea is definitely competitive (as competitive as Ad Mech be, anyway).

You might want to watch Richard Siegler's battle report on the AOW twitch channel (it'll be up for 5 more days) where he plays a mixed combat and shooting list competitively by taking the middle of the board and then forcing his opponent to either come in and get smashed by the priests or stay back and lose on points while getting smashed by the ranged firepower. He's arguably the best 40k player in the world right now, and there's a lot to learn from seeing how he plays ad mech.

Right now, Serberys Raiders sound disappointing.
Sniping with Galvanic carbines (how much better can they be compared with bland Galvanic rifles) is weak sauce. Is that all they have to give?
Ok, the sergeant has a decent weapon. That hardly justifies the unit.
Let's assume assault 3 carbines. 9 shots, 6 hits, one mortal wound. Whoa, character-wreking! Oh, plus 3 ap 0 wounds, so powerful.
I hope we are missing something important here.

yukishiro1 wrote:


Charging in T1 isn't necessarily the best way to play that list, but the basic idea is definitely competitive (as competitive as Ad Mech be, anyway).

You might want to watch Richard Siegler's battle report on the AOW twitch channel (it'll be up for 5 more days) where he plays a mixed combat and shooting list competitively by taking the middle of the board and then forcing his opponent to either come in and get smashed by the priests or stay back and lose on points while getting smashed by the ranged firepower. He's arguably the best 40k player in the world right now, and there's a lot to learn from seeing how he plays ad mech.

oh i agree that charging in isnt always the best play. Taking space on the board and forcing my opponent to make decisions as to where he positions himself can be amazing for admech.


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DanielFM wrote:
Right now, Serberys Raiders sound disappointing.
Sniping with Galvanic carbines (how much better can they be compared with bland Galvanic rifles) is weak sauce. Is that all they have to give?
Ok, the sergeant has a decent weapon. That hardly justifies the unit.
Let's assume assault 3 carbines. 9 shots, 6 hits, one mortal wound. Whoa, character-wreking! Oh, plus 3 ap 0 wounds, so powerful.
I hope we are missing something important here.

I'll reserve judgment until i see the datasheet. Maybe either the gun or the unit has special rules that were missing.

Wound roll of 6+ causes a mortal and normal damage.

I linked the article. It's right here:

That is on the whole Serberys Raiders unit.

It's the same sniper rule everybody but ad mech pretty much already got. It's not useless by any means, but it's better on cheap units than expensive ones, and I don't see it being all that useful on the Raiders unless they have the option to take a weapon that is actually threatening on its own as well.

I hope they will be Assault 2 24" S4 ap-1 D1

Basically 7th edition galvanic rifles with less range, but more shots

Well Dragoons will take a hit in the new edition, according the twitch QnA today modifiers will be capped at -1 or +1

So the current strats we have to give a +2 hit will be, I assume, re-worded to only allow for the +1.Taser explodes will be a bit less explodey.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually an exception to the normal rule, because the strat specifically says it gives +2. I think the rule will probably say "+1 to hit doesn't stack with another +1 to hit, but if a single effect gives a +2 to hit, that is fine."

It's intended to stop people from stacking a bunch of -1s to hit to make something unhittable; I don't think they had strats that actually give a +2 in mind.

yeah theres quite a few +/-2 rules. Blocking all rules from stacking makes sense but making all the +/-2 suddenly +/-1? Completely neuter a lot of units if they didnt make them way cheaper to compensate.

Or it can be left as it is and +2 cases ever be really useful if someone is running -1 trait.

They didn't say it, but I'd also expect changes to how special abilities work - more and more special abilities are capped at unmodified 6. I think that will be much more common in 9th

In the twitch release today modifiers are not going better or worse than +/-1

One more interesting bit from the stream - Monsters are getting the same benefits as tanks. That might mean that shooting out of combat (and other stuff not mentioned) are going to be a general buff for big fat units with Vehicle/Monster keywords, not necessarily "tanks" per se.

 0XFallen wrote:
I hope they will be Assault 2 24" S4 ap-1 D1

Basically 7th edition galvanic rifles with less range, but more shots

Those would be awful snipers and useless in units below 5 models.
I hope you are wrong or they are super cheap

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah theres quite a few +/-2 rules. Blocking all rules from stacking makes sense but making all the +/-2 suddenly +/-1? Completely neuter a lot of units if they didnt make them way cheaper to compensate.

Cheaper is quite possible. 9th ed is fairly likely to come up with complete point revisit so would be expecting tons of changes on that front.

Holy Omnissiash. Did the writers of the AdMech rules forget we can give Canticles to Knights?

.....probably because i did for a moment lol...

S7 Avenger Gatling, S9 Battlecannons ftw lol
(theres probably a clause preventing this)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
.....probably because i did for a moment lol...

S7 Avenger Gatling, S9 Battlecannons ftw lol
(theres probably a clause preventing this)

STR 8 Valiant flamer, seigebreakers. Edit: NVM meltas are assault.

Str 8 helverin in a pinch.

So here are my thoughts:

1) Mars Canticle is the biotitan in the room. Combined with the exploding 6s Holy Order WLT, Mars Dakkabots just gained 107% damage output against T6 3+/4++ and 73% against T7 3+/4++. And they can move and shoot with impunity.

Crawlers, Grators, and Boats also get some ridiculous damage improvements. It's weird, but Heavy Stubbers in particular are now seriously threatening against Marines.

Honestly, I am not sure if anything else can compete. I definitely hope so though. You have a bunch of other Forge Worlds and three more Holy Orders.

2) Copters may be a necessary part of our armies if they can shut down auras. Keep in mind that A LOT of armies rely on these auras to pull off charges and to get through melee.

Also, 6" does not sound like much, but consider how large the wingspan is on these things! EDIT: Though that does remind me, but if we build them without the flying stands, do we need to use the base still?

3) A single unit of Skystalkers might be nice to disrupt a gunline, but it doesn't affect Titans, and they are a fragile unit... maybe a pass, especially given we know the Stygies Canticle is not that great. (If they could fall back and shoot without penalty, it would be worth it.)

I don't think any flyers measure from the model as opposed to from the base. So the wingspan isn't directly relevant to the strat.

Mars canticle is weird because it does so much for some stuff and so little for others.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I don't think any flyers measure from the model as opposed to from the base. So the wingspan isn't directly relevant to the strat.

Mars canticle is weird because it does so much for some stuff and so little for others.

Bummer.

Boats have 12x S5 attacks now. LOL.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Why couldn't you have prime hermeticon? Oh, are you reading it as joining a holy order is choosing a warlord trait, i.e. you either get a normal warlord trait or you join a holy order?

I wasn't reading it that way initially - I was reading it as you get the following benefits, AND there's also an associated warlord trait that you can pick if you want, but don't have to. But maybe you're right, and these are actually replacement warlord traits, not in addition to them.

That's how it reads to me, particularly since the Holy Order rule shown specifically refers to the Warlord, just the same as any Warlord trait.

And hah, I can just picture the behind the scenes on designing rules for the comm uplink, since it is a data-tether with a different name: it started as a data-tether, then playtesters were zipping these things into the backfield and character sniping with 2+ RR1s to hit lascannons like I suggested. So, the name was changed to avoid it being the target of PDI, but the playtesters really liked the dynamic of a disruptive flyer so they suggested writing a new ability to mess with enemy characters - so we get the new strat.