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Everytime I try to stick a squad of Chosen in my army, I end up taking them out as another unit overshadows them in their role and often is cheaper, or is scoring, or whatever.

Today I am going to try the "lots of outflanking flamers in a rhino BBQ" squad. The infiltrating plasma squad could be pretty entertaining too, or the infiltrating demon spawn point. But are they competitive at all?

What are the best chosen builds? How do you use them in a way that they aren't overshadowed by something else in the codex?

Chosen Ones with 4 (or how may it was) meltaguns in a Rhino.
Now that's scary!

5....

its 5.....

4 is havocs...


Now thats how rare chosen are used. People dont even remember their correct options.

I'd take small Chosen units with 4 special weapons mounted in Rhinos and outflanking.
Ouch!

There good with 4 plasma guns in a rhino with a MoN, but not outflank them, just treat them as a squad with special weps and they get 10x better.

...I don't...

But if you use them take 5 meltas, put them in a rhino (squad of 5). If you want them to be a spawn point give them an IoCG.

I disagree.

In mission based games, the Chosen are expendible.

Outflanking with melta/plasma is good sometimes. If they come in on the wrong side of the table then its not so hot. They should always have a Rhino though, so they can scoot across the board fairly quickly.

IMO Chosen are great because of their options with special weapons.

For serious special weapons spam, you gotta love chosen.

Also provides the cheapest (28pt) Aspiring champ for a Greater Daemon to jump out of with the benefits of infiltrating within 12-18 inches (cover is important!).

Ive thought of a 5 man powerweapon assault squad, but not tried it yet.

I have started taking them every other game - dont expect miracles, but do expect them to do some serious work.

Personally, I like combi-melts over meltas. I don't like restricting myself to such limitted units, especially since those Chosen will probably only get to use their meltaguns once. In a scenario where there isn't anything to melt, you have a rather useless unit. I would take meltabombs on the unit too. If there is anything to melt after that first shot, you might as well charge them.

They are very good, its a shame people tend to overlook them. I use them as a solution to whatever weak spots my army has, need melta? No problem. Etc...

I have individually converted them into Fallen Dark Angels so I alwasy take them.

@DarkHound:
Why not just take the melta instad of the combi.
Certainly they prob. get one shot off, but they cost the same.
You'd rather punish the enemy furthur WHEN they fail to wipe them.

Unless you REALLY want that bolter shot afterwards.
__________--

I personally don't like them, I look at them and always end up getting more troops instead.

My 7 Cents.

The problem is that you don't need Melta against every army. It is important against a lot of them, but Melta really only shines against AV13/14. Autocannons, Lascannons, and even Plasmaguns are better against AV12 given the many extra shots you can get off while Meltaguns get in position. So if you have a squad with only Meltaguns, they are dead weight when you don't need them, and compared to combi-melts, aren't much more valuable when you do.

Melta is not just good against tanks. It can also be very dangerous against high toughness targets (monsterous creatures) and multiple-wound t4 targets (Nob Bikes) when taken en-masse. A unit of chosen with 5 meltas will do quite a bit of damage to a carnifex/wraithlord/etc. Not many armies will play things that melta isn't at least fairly useful against. Clearly in some situations plasma will be better, but with the mech trend these days, melta seems to win because it is tremendous against armor, and still not bad against resilient non-vehicle targets.

Personally I'd rather have a single str 8 shot that also lets me charge afterwards instead of 2 str 4 shots that don't let me charge. I really don't see the advantage of combi-meltas over meltas.

Bolters have longer range, where Meltas can't reach, and are better against infantry when rapid firing anyway. The problem with using Melta weapons to take care of infantry and ~AV11 is that despite demolishing them, it is a much smaller victory because they tend to be numerous. With combi-melts, you have meltaguns when you need them, and bolters when you don't. Simple as that.

DarkHound wrote:Bolters have longer range, where Meltas can't reach, and are better against infantry when rapid firing anyway. The problem with using Melta weapons to take care of infantry and ~AV11 is that despite demolishing them, it is a much smaller victory because they tend to be numerous. With combi-melts, you have meltaguns when you need them, and bolters when you don't. Simple as that.

I'd rather shoot pistols at infantry and then charge. Or if its something like MEQ infantry I'd rather shoot meltas at them and then charge.

If they are MEQs, you don't want to be charging since the squad has no armor ignoring weapons. You'll smack a dead end against their 3+ while their Powerfist slowly wittles you down. If you take a more mixed squad to fix this, then my point is less of an issue since you have a couple spare bolters. If you are close enough to charge things that you can win against, then do so. Otherwise shooting them is a better option. You can fire from a longer distance and since you aren't being swung back at on your turn, your opponent has to expend resources on his turn which is very beneficial to you.

Ive always looked at Chosen as not exceptional on their own, but as part of a package with other squads that make them exceptional at a given role.

For example, I recently used a squad of 8 in a 2250 game. I stuck them on a flank in an innocuous position, not very threatening. They had a naked champ, a pair of meltaguns, a powerfist, and an IoCG. Nothing special, right? When they brought in a big squad of terminators and the asp champ popped out a greater daemon my opponent was suddenly swamped on one side.

IMO, chosen are designed to be flexible enough to fulfil a specific need you have. They are overshadowed when viewed on their own considering the other units in the codex but when used as part of the bigger picture they can really shine.

Five melta chosen is obviously a strong build- nothing else can get 5 meltaguns and outflanking has a good chance of eliminating the range problem of a meltagun.

Do the people who run 5 meltas it use extra bodies to protect the meltas for later shots or just try to keep the unit cheap?

I think the 5 plasma chosen squad would be much better than meltas at taking out monstrous creatures - better range so you don't get charged and if they do close to 12 inches tons of shots. It is a unit that would evaporate terminator squads too.

The 5 flamer chosen squad is in my goofy army right now, I can't wait to try it against something with a 4+ armor save...

Even more fun against a 5+ or 6+...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222991.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/235484.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/251778.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253291.page

DarkHound wrote:If they are MEQs, you don't want to be charging since the squad has no armor ignoring weapons. You'll smack a dead end against their 3+ while their Powerfist slowly wittles you down. If you take a more mixed squad to fix this, then my point is less of an issue since you have a couple spare bolters. If you are close enough to charge things that you can win against, then do so. Otherwise shooting them is a better option. You can fire from a longer distance and since you aren't being swung back at on your turn, your opponent has to expend resources on his turn which is very beneficial to you.

eh, I'll plow my unit of Chosen swinging with 3 attacks each o nthe charge into the remains of a unit of Marines if it means they won't be shooting something rather important to me on their turn, or charging my Chosen on their turn, or if their pile in move/consolidation can pull them out of an objective. Clearly, I'm not gunning to win the combat outright unless there are maybe 3 marines (one with fist) there, or there is no fist and similar numbers on both sides. I find myself charging things often times because it stops them from doing something important, not to massacre them. Remember, in anything other than killpoints, Chosen are completely expendable and that makes them ideal for a role like this. Sometimes you have to give an inch to take a yard. It is also very situational of course, as it depends on the exacty scenario that is sitting in front of you at the time.

hancock.tom wrote:Five melta chosen is obviously a strong build- nothing else can get 5 meltaguns and outflanking has a good chance of eliminating the range problem of a meltagun.

Do the people who run 5 meltas it use extra bodies to protect the meltas for later shots or just try to keep the unit cheap?

I think the 5 plasma chosen squad would be much better than meltas at taking out monstrous creatures - better range so you don't get charged and if they do close to 12 inches tons of shots. It is a unit that would evaporate terminator squads too.

The 5 flamer chosen squad is in my goofy army right now, I can't wait to try it against something with a 4+ armor save...

5 Plasma will be much better against MCs that are not T8, at which point 5 meltas and 5 plasmas rapid firing average the same wounds. Edge still to the plasma since it has potential to roll more wounds with luck though I guess. What you do lose is a lot of anti-tank power and the ability to threaten certain armor types consistantly. If you have plenty of AT elsewhere in the list then the plasmas are definitely worth rolling, as they'll be quite supreme against MEQ/TEQ/heavy infantry when compared to Meltas.

in the current mech heavy enviroment.
Being able to pop a tank then charge the contents is very handy.

Being able to pop a tank then charge the contents is very handy.

Did they finally fix this rule? Is it possible to do this now?

Four Plasma Guns, a Missile Launcher, and an Icon of Tzeentch is a nice way of saying hello to the opposing army.

Three Melta Guns and two Flamethrowers is pretty useful too.

I always take the maximum number of Chosen: the extra bodies always come in useful either catching bullets, or adding close combat power.

I either kit them out with Meltas or with Power weapon's, I don't go upgrade crazy though.

You can pop tanks and such and charge the contents, but not on your first turn if one takes first turn.

Chosen who infiltrate as normal will always be 2 turns away from maximum utility, unless the opponent:
A. Moves towards them if they get first turn.
B. Fails to kill them after moving closer to them.

What I mean is that infiltrating:
12.00001" means no 2D6 Range on meltas, no charges.
But you get to double tap stuff.
18.00001" means no weapons limited to 12" will ever touch the opponent after a 6" walk.
But you get to shoot stuff standing still with plasma/bolters/hvy weapon.

So infiltrating is only good with plasma guns and any other guns that has same to more range.

Which them comes rhinos coupled with outflanking.
If we focus soley on the turn they arrive in the rhino, then there is no such thing as charging the enemy, more like them charging you.

/Shrug.

They are great at spamming weapons and showing up close to the opponent, no doubt there.
But they are a luxury unit, they are pricey for what you get, lacking scoring, are just MEQ's for the price, and operate in ranges that benefit their guns and the enemies' guns.

It's a trade off. I prefer scoring units and overall cheaper units than the flavor unit of chosen, actually, I just prefer Plague marines over any other infantry, with oblits coming in second....and really nothing in third.

My 7 Cents.

Can you pop an independant character into a squad of Chosen with Infiltrate, and then have them outflank in their rhino?
If so, can you put them in a HS landraider instead?

I am guessing no on both cases, but would be happy to find myself incorrect!

You can't, an IC attached to them would result in them losing infiltrate, if you don't have infiltrate you can't outflank.

You CAN put chosen and an IC in a Land Raider, you just can't outflank with it, as it only involves dedicated transports.

My 7 Cents.

I dont, but if I did, it would be with all flamers. Melta guns you can just do better with in a termicide unit. Flamers, however, can rip right through any squad. For those pesky eldar that sit in cover, outflanking & 5 flamer templates is just overkill.