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Samus_aran115 wrote:My main gun is a G&G CM16 A2 Sportline (an m16a2), and I have a couple metal springers that I use mainly as props (a 1991a1 and a M92 berretta). My next purchase is a CA M16a1 VN, which is... 290$. Ouch. But I'm saving

G&G makes some of the best guns for their prices. I love KWA, but if I had to choose, I'd probably pick a G&G

I have an ump 45 aeg (which may be messed up slightly)
And I recently bought a co2 USP

Can anyone suggest a good, but not uber expensive, aeg?
(other than m4/m16 variants)

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. Why do you use military lookalikes?

It builds a sense of realism, helps distinguish airsofters from paintballers (who ,at least in my area, are at each others throats, mostly about this matter), it also helps that many airsoft guns are used by military groups for safe-fire training, to allow sparring between trainees.


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Guess what Evike.com just released, today!

http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=37442

I assume more sizes and colors will be available, perhaps several styles if they sell well.
I want to get my hands on one of these eventually. (one that either looks like Griff or Caboose from RvB)

Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. Why do you use military lookalikes?

Because the market consists of military lookalikes? A vast majority of airsoft guns are firearms lookalikes.

Anyway I got a question or two for airsoft vets. I recently got this gun for Christmas:

It's a pretty cool gun, but my two brothers got one as well (it was a group choice). So we each have the same looking gun. Course, that's not a good thing SO I want to change it visually so it looks like its mine and not theirs.

So I ask: what am I allowed to change in accordance with UK law and are there any websites that specialise in gun customisation? From what I've read it's not a lot since I don't go airsoft frequently enough for the funky license, but I was thinking of decals or another bright colour.

Frazzled wrote:Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

I would say it is a large part. I love using an AK-74M with Russian grenade launcher, Russian camo, ect ect...it just builds the experience. Plus, I LOVE shooting real guns (we've talked about it before, Frazz), and aesthetic value of using 1:1 scale replicas is a big part. Plus, playing airsoft involves a little more "realism" that paintball if you ask me.

Frazzled wrote:
Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

Yes. Live by the book, die by the book.

U.S. Army Field Manual 3-21.8
http://marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/FM%203-21.8%20%20The%20Infantry%20Rifle%20Platoon%20and%20Squad_1.pdf

There are other, somewhat more important books and doctrines we study at my team. This is on-par with Sun Tsu's Art of War, It is a cornerstone.

Frazzled wrote:
Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

Thats what drew me to Airsoft over paintballing. Plus I have a really good friend who was heavily involved in the community here until he got diagnosed with MS. He still took me out to play but could usually only play in one game ( we usually had 2 games a day, morning 'spray and pray' type game, second game started when half the kiddies left and was more Mil-Sim (millitary simulation) kind of game) per day.

One other thing that sold me on Air-soft over paint ball was the 'honour system' you had to call your hits and be honest about it. If you got caught cheating the community is so small up here that you will get 'shunned' and asked not to come back. This can hurt especially if you have just laid out $300-$500 for a gun and a few hundred for your BDU's. goggles, chest rig ( I still have my SAAV, south aferican assault vest in OZ cam ) and stuff. So to say it would take atleast 500-1000 dollars to start out is a huge investment and not worth the risk of getting 'caught cheating'.

The club he belonged to was BCAC which had alot of ex-CF, active CF and reservist play. OP-FOR was more about the play and spray games BCAC was more mil-sim games. I liked the mil-sim games personally. I loved listening to the guys 'war stories' and old games. Like the mil-sim where they went up into the bush for a 3 day sim. Well it seems the active service guys checked out Gen3 or 4 NVG kits and it turned into 'slaught team new guy' with the vets all wearing NVG and getting pissed off at people because they where not calling their hits.

We where starting a 'team' for airsoft where I played thats why I bought the systema gun so that we all had the same type of weapons and could 'trade magazines' if one person was running low on ammo. The main reasion why I stopped playing was because my friend couldn't make the games anymore and he was my ride out there. Also where we played it was divided airsoft/paintball and the owner was a douche bag. We where in the middle of a game when the owner and 9 guys rushed us with paint ball guns and spraied us up by 'mistake' and laughed about it. There where 14 guys waiting for him to come into the parking lot after wards, so the guy called the cops and said we where threating him with out ' real fake guns' it was a fething gong show. That would be the other main reasion I stopped playing. I know bcac did move to another location after that but it's way to far for a day trip so...-shrugs- what to do...what to do.

BTW Flecktarn FTW!

Razorspirit wrote:They call me the blue terrorist where I play

NWUs aren't a combat pattern, but I suppose it looks pretty neat. Where'd you get yours? I'm heading to boot in like june, so I should be getting a pair to look fancy in soon enough.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

Yes. Live by the book, die by the book.

U.S. Army Field Manual 3-21.8
http://marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/FM%203-21.8%20%20The%20Infantry%20Rifle%20Platoon%20and%20Squad_1.pdf

There are other, somewhat more important books and doctrines we study at my team. This is on-par with Sun Tsu's Art of War, It is a cornerstone.

Once you mention Art of War you lose all credability. Thread over.

It's the Godwins Law of gamers...

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. Why do you use military lookalikes?

I do it for a couple reasons.

1. It's better than wearing 'civilian' clothes, as far as camouflage and utility
2. It makes everyone feel really cool if you have matching uniforms and operate as a group. Just raises "moral"
3. Gives you a viable excuse to dress like a soldier, which may or not be fun for some people.

I like it. I buy all sorts of USGI surplus for airsoft. I'm joining the navy, and won't be able to do "soldier" things, so might as well get it out of my system.


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Squidmanlolz wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Is realism part of it? I'm not being critical. I am not being critical. I just have no reference.

Yes. Live by the book, die by the book.

U.S. Army Field Manual 3-21.8
http://marines.mil/news/publications/Documents/FM%203-21.8%20%20The%20Infantry%20Rifle%20Platoon%20and%20Squad_1.pdf

There are other, somewhat more important books and doctrines we study at my team. This is on-par with Sun Tsu's Art of War, It is a cornerstone.

That's a little extreme. Me and my friends practice low-crawls and silent hand signs. I'm a big fan of evasion and stealth, so I practice that. I don't think you have to do all that :3


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Juvieus Kaine wrote:
Because the market consists of military lookalikes? A vast majority of airsoft guns are firearms lookalikes.

Anyway I got a question or two for airsoft vets. I recently got this gun for Christmas:

It's a pretty cool gun, but my two brothers got one as well (it was a group choice). So we each have the same looking gun. Course, that's not a good thing SO I want to change it visually so it looks like its mine and not theirs.

So I ask: what am I allowed to change in accordance with UK law and are there any websites that specialise in gun customisation? From what I've read it's not a lot since I don't go airsoft frequently enough for the funky license, but I was thinking of decals or another bright colour.

Um, you could spray it a different color, like Olive drab, right? Does the UK have any beef with that?

Aside from that, you could buy a conversion kit and give the handguard and barrel a new look. There's too many conversion kits to name.

@ SA ; damn rights some people consider it this was ' if it wasn't issued ( ie surplus) it isn't worth having". I liked the look and feel of a team all in the same BDU's with the same weapons. It just felt more 'real' to me. although there where times I dressed in just jeans and my SAAV while being a PMC.

@ frazz I guess its the same anywhere you go. There will be different 'mindsets or levels' of commintment. Some guys where just all about having the newest and flashiest 'bling' and gear. Some guys where there to do hard core milsims, some guys just wanted to shoot of bb's and have a good time. You just had to find out where you fit in find like minded people and take it from there.

Kind of like 40k, some people want to do nothing but hardcore turney lists, some people always want the 'new shinny things', Some people just want to play fluff wise, while some people want to do campaigns and linked games, you just find out where you fit in and play with those guys.

Dressing like a soldier is fun.
Acting like a soldier is Fun-tastic
Being a soldier seems too serious to be as fun as a game, but that won't deter me from ROTC-ing next year!

I miss my this baby (sold it):

I find it funny how much players can "bond" with their guns when they are only replicas/sports equipment, imagine feeling the same way about a baseball glove or hockey stick.
This might just be my opinion...

I play with my AK-74 with Cybergun externals and KWA internals (liked the look of cybergun better, but power of KWA) It looked very similar to CT GAMER's rifle. Where I play, they call me 'kiddo' or 'Amnesia' because that's what my tag says. I use 1980's early woodland camouflage. I use the Zombie Survival guide by Max Brooks as my doctrine, as long as I'm facing off with pistol guys. If not, then I use my killy commando tactics and crawl along the flank, then spray the enemy team on full auto.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Um, you could spray it a different color, like Olive drab, right? Does the UK have any beef with that?

Technically it's illegal, I believe - as you would be creating a realistic imitation firearm, the sale of which is restricted. I'm no expert on the rules though. Of course, people spray two-tones all the time, and unless you're actually a nutter and use them to shoot up a bus stop or something, you're not very likely to get done for respraying one.


As an aside, I find the talk about studying "textbooks", as it were, a little odd. Then again at my local site, a fair number of players are either ex/current servicemen or "casuals" so there wouldn't really be much need for it. The most hardcore people tend to get is owning a systema.

The Dreadnote wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Um, you could spray it a different color, like Olive drab, right? Does the UK have any beef with that?

Technically it's illegal, I believe - as you would be creating a realistic imitation firearm, the sale of which is restricted. I'm no expert on the rules though. Of course, people spray two-tones all the time, and unless you're actually a nutter and use them to shoot up a bus stop or something, you're not very likely to get done for respraying one.

.

The sale is restricted yes, but ownership or manufacturing(spraying) is a really big grey area.

To be honest, the rules in the UK are pretty S****. The law states that if you can prove that you are using the airsoft rifle (RIF/realistic imitation firearm, or whatever new acronym people give the,) for REGULAR airsoft use, it is perfectly legal to spray/manufacture/purchase a RIF.
But its rediculously hard to prove it without an independant source with a retailer/defence situation.

UKARA membership helps you defend yourself if it came to the police enquiring about your RIF's as its an independant source to prove a defense.

Essentially the government didnt know what to do to regulate airsoft. Which is reflected in the vagueness and inconsistancies of the laws regulating us. (de-activated rifles in my eyes can theoretically be used by a mad man to hold up a shop etc but arent under the same restrictions of airsoft. Its silly, both look the same, the only difference being one shoots tiny bb's.

I wouldnt spray a rifle withough having UKARA membership personally as i see it as silly risk to the sports reputation (as well as the person involved) if it went belly up.
Airsoft in the UK was nearly banned all together in 2007/8 and doesnt need any bad publicity due to the UK's general negativity towards anything firearm related. It doesnt get any positive press wither as its a niche sport/hobby that prefers to be under the radar.
3 months of having a 2-tone rifle isnt too bad for that peice of mind in my eyes.




Anyway sorry for being on my soapbox , the UK reglations have millions of threads on airsoft forums and could create a small black hole of confused people.

I just enjoy the tactics and teamwork of a skirmish day, its great fun!


Dan

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. Why do you use military lookalikes?

I do it for a couple reasons.

1. It's better than wearing 'civilian' clothes, as far as camouflage and utility
2. It makes everyone feel really cool if you have matching uniforms and operate as a group. Just raises "moral"
3. Gives you a viable excuse to dress like a soldier, which may or not be fun for some people.

I was thinking more in the way of the weapons (is that what they are called?), but cool.

I guess it's for the same reason that people prefer to use painted models and nice terrain in miniatures games, that being immersion.

The Dreadnote wrote:I guess it's for the same reason that people prefer to use painted models and nice terrain in miniatures games, that being immersion.

I think the query stems from some incidents that have occurred were airsoft and pellet guns were used by criminals or ended up dead when they ran into people with the real thing.

Nothing against it. I'm just surprised there's no "cool ray gun" versions as well.

Frazzled fiendishly ponders a civil war/Old West version...


Second Q. how accurate are they vs. paintball? Do they sting when hit?

There are cool Ray Gun versions if you're willing to convert. I'm sure a quick Google search will turn up Airsoft Lasguns as well.

There's huge debate about which hurts more, paintballs or airsoft, but I find its pretty irrelevent. Paintball guns fire large projectiles, relatively slowly at a relativly low rate of fire, airsoft fire very small projectiles at a higher speed and high rate of fire. Either way, there are so many makes, variable on distance etc. that there's no real way to tell. Generally, you'll tell when you've been hit by one or t'other. Accuracy wise, Airsoft are slightly better than Paintball but the variance between most Airsoft guns is minimal.

The OC-D

theocd wrote:There are cool Ray Gun versions if you're willing to convert. I'm sure a quick Google search will turn up Airsoft Lasguns as well.

There's huge debate about which hurts more, paintballs or airsoft, but I find its pretty irrelevent. Paintball guns fire large projectiles, relatively slowly at a relativly low rate of fire, airsoft fire very small projectiles at a higher speed and high rate of fire. Either way, there are so many makes, variable on distance etc. that there's no real way to tell. Generally, you'll tell when you've been hit by one or t'other. Accuracy wise, Airsoft are slightly better than Paintball but the variance between most Airsoft guns is minimal.

The OC-D

Coolio. I looked up the wiki article on airsoft.
1) noted some air speeds of 600 fps. Thinks about fps of the 230 grain ACPs that are my best friend and went...er...scary!
2) plastic bbs. When I was a youngin we could shoot them from pump shotguns, probably at 50 fps , good enough to tag your friend in the hallway of the house playing "war" but that was about it. My things have changed.

Looks fun. (hot though, aka real hot in Texas, of course everything is hot in Texas).

In reference to your point #2, I am the proud owner of an AKM that's been converted to fire 4.5mm Steel BBs at ~350FPS, that makes holes in things. And its semi-auto. Funnily enough they don't allow that for Airsofting, rather takes the soft out.

Man, if I lived in Texas airsoft would be the last thing on my mind...

The OC-D

The thing is that because the bb's are light (between 0.2 and 0.43 depending on user preference) the FPS isnt actually as bad as it sounds, only time ive ever bled from airsoft is when i got shot point blank on the end of the nose.... twice.... pretty good double tap to be fair!!

Been to airsoft dozens of times, went paintballing 3 times... spent a fortune on ammo (ive spent a fortune on airsoft but thats on pretty stuff i can keep ) Each time i went paintballing i bled from one hit at least (the neck was bloody painful!)

Dan

D.Smith wrote:The thing is that because the bb's are light (between 0.2 and 0.43 depending on user preference) the FPS isnt actually that bad, only time ive ever bled from airsoft is when i got shot point blank on the end of the nose.... twice.... pretty good double tap to be fair!!

OW!

It was my own team, damn trigger happy teenagers!

I got called rudolf all last month thanks to him......

D.Smith wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Um, you could spray it a different color, like Olive drab, right? Does the UK have any beef with that?

Technically it's illegal, I believe - as you would be creating a realistic imitation firearm, the sale of which is restricted. I'm no expert on the rules though. Of course, people spray two-tones all the time, and unless you're actually a nutter and use them to shoot up a bus stop or something, you're not very likely to get done for respraying one.

The sale is restricted yes, but ownership or manufacturing(spraying) is a really big grey area.

To be honest, the rules in the UK are pretty S****. The law states that if you can prove that you are using the airsoft rifle (RIF/realistic imitation firearm, or whatever new acronym people give the,) for REGULAR airsoft use, it is perfectly legal to spray/manufacture/purchase a RIF.
But its rediculously hard to prove it without an independant source with a retailer/defence situation.

UKARA membership helps you defend yourself if it came to the police enquiring about your RIF's as its an independant source to prove a defense.

Essentially the government didnt know what to do to regulate airsoft. Which is reflected in the vagueness and inconsistancies of the laws regulating us. (de-activated rifles in my eyes can theoretically be used by a mad man to hold up a shop etc but arent under the same restrictions of airsoft. Its silly, both look the same, the only difference being one shoots tiny bb's.

I wouldnt spray a rifle withough having UKARA membership personally as i see it as silly risk to the sports reputation (as well as the person involved) if it went belly up.
Airsoft in the UK was nearly banned all together in 2007/8 and doesnt need any bad publicity due to the UK's general negativity towards anything firearm related. It doesnt get any positive press wither as its a niche sport/hobby that prefers to be under the radar.
3 months of having a 2-tone rifle isnt too bad for that peice of mind in my eyes.

Easy Tiger

Well that's helpful in a sense. Ok so no respraying for me... so onto decals. Does anyone (mainly Brits) know of where I can get some for airsoft guns?

You could get camo-tape, they sell it at multiple sites like Evike.com

Nothing personal intended, common sense prevails to be honest.

One tale of the rediculous was a couple of years back, a guy didnt turn up for a skirmish so his friends tried phone him.
A policeman answered his friends mobile and proceeded to tell him he had walked into a motorway services with a desert eagle holstered on his leg... *sigh* thats why UKARA and the restrictions ended up being here.. and makes me loose faith in humanity lol

Now transfers are something ive never thought of! and i like it! *begins digging in the tinterwebs*

D.Smith wrote:Nothing personal intended, common sense prevails to be honest.

One tale of the rediculous was a couple of years back, a guy didnt turn up for a skirmish so his friends tried phone him.
A policeman answered his friends mobile and proceeded to tell him he had walked into a motorway services with a desert eagle holstered on his leg... *sigh* thats why UKARA and the restrictions ended up being here.. and makes me loose faith in humanity lol

Now transfers are something ive never thought of! and i like it! *begins digging in the tinterwebs*

This Halloween a guy at a costume party left late at night, drunk, pulled out a 24k m1911 and aimed it towards a bystanding cop, the man was shot on sight by the police officer. I'm not sure which city this happened in, I think it may have been Chicago