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For close combat, the idea of "hiding" a giant Warrior among small Gaunts is kinda silly.

They're not really hiding though. It's the same way a dude with a gigantic fist can 'hide' in unit, or an Ork Nob can 'hide' in a unit. Considering an Ork Nob is on par with a Tyranid Warrior in terms of close combat ability, it seems reasonable enough to me.

It sounds too much like all the other armies though. Too Humanoid, not alien enough. Having a Tyranid Warrior named Sergent Termaclaw wielding his chainsword and bolt pistol barking orders to his squad of misfit gaunts makes Nids look like they're trying to emulate IG. All they need is to stay within Hive Node aoe. The ability to act in unison without commanding officers in their immediate vicinity is one thing that makes them alien.

Except that's what Tyranid Warriors are described as being: less so the hyperbolic description of being just like other leader models, and more like officers mashalling lesser Tyranids.

Ya but it just sounds so generic. "one Termagant can be upgraded to a Warrior for the additional cost of X points. That Warrior may then choose additional wargea... I mean biomorphs."

It's just nice to see armies that can function effectively in ways very different from one another. I personally like that Tyranids are the most alien/different of all the races. I hope they stay that way.

Embedded Warriors taken as 0-3 as a gaunt unit upgrade would be neat, as long as I could still take units of them.

What's so generic about it?

gorgon wrote:Those are the same Warpshadow rumors that I referenced earlier. Although I *think* the original poster (Terrorfex on that site) wasn't sure about the plastic Tyrant. I wonder if that might be a second wave item. The original rumors also didn't specifically mention Biovores, just that antitank would be increased (which could mean almost anything).

You're right... it might be a pts drop in shooty items, or they might boost the CC ability of some things (ie Warriors ) or maybe some ridiculous rules for the Trygon.

Railguns wrote:They already charge $45 for the metal Tyrant, IIRC.

It's $55 CDN, which i think (?) is $45 USD. So you've got it.

Necros wrote:Don't they usually make plastic models cheaper than metal versions when they're released?

When they switched the Carnifex from metal plastic, they BOOSTED the price. I blame their idea that all the extras they're putting in the box set (the 6 heads, all the arms & the biomorphs) meant an increase in price.
I'll bet that the Hive Tyrant will be the same, but I won't be happy about it.

I actually like the idea of warriors mixed in with gaunts as It sorta fits the fluff of the warriors using a sea of gaunts to protect itself.

Nurglitch wrote:What's so generic about it?

The fact that all other armies do it.

Except Necrons.

I'm kind of tired of MCs hiding behind a fence of gaunts though to get a 4+ cover save. Its obnoxious (although I do think my local store was playing it wrong but w/e).

MCs are huge and are supposed to be targeted, theyre giant death machines for feths sake. This said, Warriors, Fexes, and Tyrants should be able to take a fair amount of hits and keep moving. They're all immune to instant death sure, but the lascannon heavy lists still tear them apart without their cover shenanigans.

I would hope that the Warriors come with more survivability base, carnifexes are less prone to be shooty, warriors can be the shooty ones, gaunts become more popular (theyre supposed to swarm, not only be in groups of 10 to fence your Tyrants), and Biovores dont shoot killpoints.

Just because Tyranids aren't "supposed" to be a shooty army (which is a silly restriction in itself considering that they are supposed to be the most adaptable race to ever hit the galaxy) doesn't mean that their shooting has to suck. Making their guns suck even more wouldn't make them any better at close combat, even though I'm sure thats GW's reasoning. Make their shooting effective for the points you spend rather than allowing you to take 4 venom cannons and then make them all only capable of glancing. Hell, 4 venom cannons is pathetic compared to the "average" AT some armies bring. On the other hand, making Carnifexes more effective in close combat (WHY DO I HAVE TO UPGRADE IT TO SWING BEFORE POWERFISTS!?!) won't mean a thing if they spend 4+ turns waddling after tanks.

Mechhammer 40k puts Tyranids in a bad position of making our only anti-tank that we can rely on to kill what it reaches, Monstrous Creatures, have to charge the transports in front of them, wreck them, then get melta;d to death by the squad inside. I would absolutely hate to fight Mechvet guard right now.

Railguns wrote:On the other hand, making Carnifexes more effective in close combat (WHY DO I HAVE TO UPGRADE IT TO SWING BEFORE POWERFISTS!?!) won't mean a thing if they spend 4+ turns waddling after tanks.

I'm just singling out this part of your post for its delicious image of a Carnifex waddling after tanks. Waddle, waddle, waddle. Quack.

Railguns wrote:Just because Tyranids aren't "supposed" to be a shooty army (which is a silly restriction in itself considering that they are supposed to be the most adaptable race to ever hit the galaxy) doesn't mean that their shooting has to suck. Making their guns suck even more wouldn't make them any better at close combat, even though I'm sure thats GW's reasoning.

I don't think there's any question that Andy C. (for all the cool ideas he had re: Tyranids) intentionally overpriced a lot of the guns in the 3rd edition codex. And as I've said before, a number of the problems in the 4th edition book occurred when Phil K. left things more or less as is from the previous edition. He probably didn't want to undo the old master's work, but there were eggs in there that needed to be broken. Such as the "double taxation" of many of the Tyranid guns.

Anyway, back on topic. Like I said before, they should make Tyranid antitank shooting effective, but structure it so it can't be spammed to a ridiculous degree.

Y'know, they'd have a lot fewer design problems across the board if they could just stick to that. Make everything effective, but limit the over-the-top spamming.

Nurglitch wrote:Except Necrons.

Tau.

Tau.

They pretty much follow the model. Most squads have a model that can be upgraded to be the "boss." Fire Warriors, Kroot, all the Suits, etc.

The Tyrant's model is $49.50. If GW seriously believes they can raise that price they're crazy.

Nurglitch wrote:So has anyone explored the idea of mixed swarms? Like being able to include Tyranid Warriors in Termagant swarms, or having something like the Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon rule where certain broods could mob up into a swarm?

Yeah. First version of a homebrew Codex had a unit called "The Swarm".

It started as 3 Termagants, and then for every 3 Termagants you could take 1 Hormagaunt. And for every 3 Hormagaunts you could take one Genestealer. And then for every 3 Genestealers you could take 1 Warrior, and there was no maximum size for the unit.

Never did get a chance to try it out.

Nurglitch wrote:Except Necrons.

And Demons... I think? (If anyone deigns to stoop to acknowledging them.)

I'm not saying that Tyranid Warriors leading squads is a game breaker, I'm just saying that I like how they lead squads by being in proximity. I personally believe that boosting gaunt HtH ability shouldn't rest on giving them a squad leader. But maybe give them a melee bonus of some sort for being under Hive Mind influence...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:So has anyone explored the idea of mixed swarms? Like being able to include Tyranid Warriors in Termagant swarms, or having something like the Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon rule where certain broods could mob up into a swarm?

Yeah. First version of a homebrew Codex had a unit called "The Swarm".

It started as 3 Termagants, and then for every 3 Termagants you could take 1 Hormagaunt. And for every 3 Hormagaunts you could take one Genestealer. And then for every 3 Genestealers you could take 1 Warrior, and there was no maximum size for the unit.

Never did get a chance to try it out.

Sounds like something that would be GREAT for Apocalypse games. 5 Warriors would mean you've got 180 Gaunts in front...
I'm really kind of hoping that they bring that back.... or make a datasheet or something for it for Apocalypse.

I think warriors available as a troop option would be nice. Like for every 2 units of gaunts, you can take one unit of warriors as troops that is outside of the FOC. Sorta like a platon command squad. Would also give tyranids a much needed effective scoring unit that isn't neccesarily close combat oriented.

Just giving Warriors a 4+ save as standard would go a long way to ensuring they live past the first couple of turns. I know you can do it now for only 4pts, but you've still got to model the damn biomorph and you only get 2 poxy "shoulder pads" per box... and they are of a different design to each other

winterman wrote:I think warriors available as a troop option would be nice. Like for every 2 units of gaunts, you can take one unit of warriors as troops that is outside of the FOC.

Warriors are a natural Elite unit that serve an expanded HQ-type role via Synapse, so I can't see them as Troops.

Also, the conditional bit of tying to other units isn't a 5E type construct. In 5E, there are no 0-1 restrictions aside from Special Characters, and there aren't external unit links. 5E takes a KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) approach to army lists.

Having a base Sv4+ on Warriors would make sense, and I agree with that.

^^ Swarm sounds like a cool rule. No one cares about Warriors, anyway.

I love Warriors. It's a great kit, as long as you can get around the fact that it doesn't give you enough rending claws or biomorph options.

It'd be nice if you could get more Warriors per box though.

Still, I like the models. A little more variety wouldn't go amiss either. They're easy enough to modify. Mind you, I've modified mine to have the guns on their upper set of limbs, and scything claws in the middle set of limbs, no crests, and a horizontal posture to match my Termagants, Carnifexes, and Tyrant. Plus stuff with their tails to break up the same-ness. So I'm not exactly your standard Tyranid fan, YMMV.

I'm now more worried about the concept of 4 new species. We don't need new species - we need the current species to stop sucking. Give us a Biovore model that doesn't look like ass. Give us a plastic Gargoyle kit.

Don't give us new species.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm now more worried about the concept of 4 new species. We don't need new species - we need the current species to stop sucking. Give us a Biovore model that doesn't look like ass. Give us a plastic Gargoyle kit.

Don't give us new species.

I don't see why they can't do both. To be honest a new anti-tank species would be a great help to the Tyranids right now.

To be honest a new anti-tank species would be a great help to the Tyranids right now.

This is where they will make the monies...

I really didn't want to have to buy new models for my nids, I just got done with a competitive 2.5k army, and now I'll have to shell out more bucks to keep it that way. Gooooooooo Economics!!!