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I guess we're seeing the dark side of the new plastic technology- it allows terrible ideas to be executed in excrutiating detail. Wow. I mean, wow.

Really NOT happy if the infantry in this book are all back to fighting in blocks. I'll be very glad I'm selling off my beasts, in that case.

But as for Warmachine, PP have some awfully bad quality control at times too- Ratwolves, Giant Hand Runeshapers and Stupid Pose Syndrome...

+1 For GreenMeanStompas post

Wow.

Any chance that they just go back to the drawing board on the Razorgor and come up with something better?

I mean, surely Nagash needs something to play with, right?

After the Skaven release this is really poor. Do they have an A Team and a B Team of sculptors or something?

And is that supposed to be a mount of some kind?
Looks to be inspired by the new stupid design direction that D'n'D dire animals have gone.

Da Boss wrote:After the Skaven release this is really poor. Do they have an A Team and a B Team of sculptors or something?

And is that supposed to be a mount of some kind?
Looks to be inspired by the new stupid design direction that D'n'D dire animals have gone.

As a fairly strong critic of Games Workshop on many things, I'll be the first to stand on a box and shout about how excellent the recent skaven sculpts are. In fact there have been some very good ranges recently.

But this range is looking desperately below par, not only in comparison to the other sculpts but in general they are just UGLY.

I am glad the new range is going to be limited and we'll see many older models continuing to be used, because the new stuff is poor as hell.

GW, pull the damned minos before they go into full production... The community will wait for a superior sculpt if you let them know it's happening.

And the Razorgor? Just remove it from the Armybook and pretend it was never made... Blame it on 4chan...

No doubt the core / excitement of BoC have been killed off by minos + other lackluster new sculpts , does the loss in profit mean sooner price adjustment?

Nah, just means they'll decide the range "isn't profitable" so they won't update them for a decade. See also: Dark Eldar.

What's the deal with the negative internet consensus on those new minis? IMO they look amazing, exactly the way I've always pictured Beastmen.

I'm ok with the minotaurs and bestigors personally. A different paint job on the minotaurs probably would've helped. I'll withhold any harsh judgements until I see them up close, and how many options their kit has.

The Razorgor or whatever its called.... come on. All of the Mythological beasts from various cultures that could've have been given the Warhammer/Chaos spin and this is what they think of? A spiky boar? Really? Totally uninspired.

A giant/Alpha-chaos spawn that could be customised to have all sorts of special rules, akin to the hell pit abomination would've been better. Or some beastmen version of the warshrine, like in the newer Gotrek and Felix novel that had the tribe actually carrying around their Herdstone...

As far as the rules rumours, I'm all for the loss of the herd system, made it incredibly tedious to move every single gor around.


My 2 cents.

Or some beastmen version of the warshrine

Since the Warriors of Chaos do not yet have a warshrine model, fans of the Razorgor at least have something to buy and use in their armies. I guess this begs the question, is a model no one seems to like better or worse than no model at all for a given unit type? It's a metaphysical conundrum!

Personally, I think the reactions here are a bit harsh. Perhaps it would be better to wait for good, clear, close-up pictures of the sprues and finished models before unleashing a torrent of negativity.

I'm not that surprised, most people are already on the anti-GW bandwagon, so they need little more to make up their minds.

Granted, Pumbaa looks a bit odd and off, the Minotaurs do have horrible legs, though some of the heads look good, the rank and mass troops, while sadly ranked up, do look good. My humble opinion of course.

TBH why are you all whining about this? its been happening for ages. the night goblin origonal plastics were beautifully detailed, and had real character in them. when the battle of skull pass class ones came out...i died inside...all character gone. Then the skaven came out. same thing happened.they lost most of the fur on their bodies, and the faces became awefully plain. Even worse, the skaven clanrats were designed to rank and file perfectly, losing their swarm aspect. IMO only army that managed to get better from their makeover, was the empire. and even then, most people complain about the lack of ruffles, and floppy hats....

Im thoroughly pissed off by the ungors (who suffer from what i call skaven clanarat syndrome) and tbh, a bit by the gors (the current sprues are amazing, and dont look crappy at all) but the minotaurs, i think look pretty nice actually. afterall when did everyone start expecting chaos to be perfect. a couple of overly muscled minotaurs are in order IMO. not to mention, they DONT seem to actually have tumoury feet. look closely, its jsut musculature deffinition IMO. ofc i could be mistaken, but its what i see. And the difference between the catachans (who looked out of place because everyone knew what a persons preportions should be like) and the minotaurs is that the minotaur is mythical and therefore can be a bit overly muscled. meh. im sure alot of talented painters here will get a hold of some of them, and everyone will begrudgingly agree the models look good, when painted like that.....

I *like* the deformed, twisted look that these Beastmen have. Like ghosty said, that's kind of the way that monsters should look, especially ones warped by Chaos. Catachans are different because they're just supposed to be muscular humans, but this is a really good look for Beastmen IMO.

At the fist pic of the new line all together I thought "Bwahahaha, they can't be serious right? This stuff ranges from purely uninspired to outright awful. They can't be serious..."

Then I saw the Razorgor pic.

"Oh God they are serious."

The fleshy studio army scheme does the entire range no justice, if you ask me. Why they'd want to pick a scheme that exaggerates their traditionally poor musculature sculpting is beyond me. But then we're talking about the company that chose snow white and purple for their alien dinobug army. *shrug*

But color scheme aside, the Minotaurs are horrific sculpts, IMO. I mean, I like them less the more I study them. I actually prefer (hate less?) the Razorgor! At least some modifications might raise that model up to a D-minus...minus. I think.

How the h*ll do you fix the Minos? My first inclination would be to add/sculpt fur, but the models are so stinkin' thick that they'd end up looking like cows wearing fur coats.

I bet the Razorgor is ridiculously good in the game. Better than Varghulf, Hydra, Hell pit abomination and everything in Daemons put together. I wonder what that means...



But most of the characters aren't half bad looking. At least.

So, what does this release mean for me as a former BoC player? (Disclaimer: Based on the rumours, I would love to be proved wrong on any of the rules ideas I have and suprised by some sort of genius design idea. I don't expect to be, however)
-Lame cover art. The art and fluff in the old book was what made me start collecting Beastmen.
-No more shaggoth! He can sit around until I eventually snap and start WoC.
-No more mixed herds! Better go rebase all my ungor.
Laaaame. Mixed herds were cool and differentiated Beasts from the more organised armies.
-No more skirmishing apparently. Woot. So the other thing that made Beasts tactically interesting is gone. Fantastic. Now we have another close combat infantry army + stuff. I'm SO excited.
-Overpriced plastic Bestigor that look exactly like the underwhelming metals. Yay? I didn't buy the metals, I'm not buying these.
-A half decent Doombull. But I already have 2 of the Minotaur Lords that GW released yonks ago, and I think I like them better.
-God awful Minotaurs. They're not the world's worst miniatures by a long run, but I've come to expect much better of GW these days and I want better than that for the prices they're asking.
-Stupid pig monster. How big is that thing supposed to be? It doesn't look scary or cool at all, it looks stupid. No interest, don't care if it's better than a Bloodthirster on steroids.
-Recut Gors and Ungors that look slightly worse than before.

Hooray? I'm glad I'm not heavily invested in my beasts, is all I'll say.

Just spotted this on Randroid's blog, though it came from Herdstone before that:

Ok, just had a quick 5 minute convo with my mate who's had a 5 minute read thorough the new book.

Herds have split , both ranked up but ungor get the option to skirmish
Unruly has gone
New rule for "herds"- when in combat take a leadership check.
If passed the unit gets hatred, if you roll insane courage you get hatred and frenzy. Didn't seem to be a downside if you failed.

Bestigor capture standards if they simply win a round of combat, get to add it (and any others they capture) to their combat res.

Minotaurs get frenzy if they win a round of combat, for every round they win they get a cumulative extra attack! Minos can only ever pursue or overrun 1d6 (they can now overrun)

Chariots STILL CORE

Centigor, still special not fast cav. No drunken every turn, instead roll a dice at the beginning of the game. Effects range from +2 I, to -1 movement to something else he couldn't remember.

New unit Harpies

New unit. Some kind of jabberwoky thing. Enemy units in 12" take Ld check, for every number they fail by take a wound no armour. seemed to be 5's across the board. If it takes a wound in combat enemy takes a S5 hit. 275 points.

Think he said about a gorgon thing, mainly 6's.

There was a normal giant, then there was a cyclops giant which was basically a giant with only Ld8, but armed with a stone thrower and every (enemy?) wizard within 24" has to pass a leadership check or not be able to cast spells.

I have no idea how to take this stuff, especially the new unit things at the end, but I like the gor and mino stuff at the start. Bestigors snatching standards is pretty cool, though I wonder if these cumulative effect things - mino blood ogry frenzy, bestigor pokemoning up standards - is going to work very well for vaguely squishy beasts ... Still groovy though, and hatred is always win, particularly on cheap cheap troops.

- Salvage

The first round of pics aren't promising. However, I will reserve judgement when better pics/sprues are seen. I was planning of Great Weapon wielding Minotaurs anyway...haven't seen those yet.

well, I guess there is REALLY no need to start a small army of Beasts now... nor should I think about buying any for skirmish type games. Well, saves me money I guess.

Well, I'll come out in the minority. I like the Minotaurs. I think they don't look like classical Greek Minotaurs on purpose - they are supposed to be weirdly mutated Chaos beasts. They remind me of the horrifying Belgian Blue cows, and I'm sure that's not an accident:



But unlike most people (apparently) I think that's a good thing.

The Razorgor OTOH - the best thing about it is the laugh I got from the Pumbaa picture.

Well, I'll come out in the minority. I like the Minotaurs. I think they don't look like classical Greek Minotaurs on purpose - they are supposed to be weirdly mutated Chaos beasts. They remind me of the horrifying Belgian Blue cows, and I'm sure that's not an accident

Spoken like a gentleman. I think you nailed that one. I don't see anything wrong with the new models. They are a bit different than the old ones, but that's deliberate I'm sure and not necessarily a bad thing. I think the big problem might be that this army has never been one of the more popular ones to begin with, at least not as a stand-alone since they split it from Warriors of Chaos and Daemons have become dominant in Fantasy Battle. Perhaps the army should be renamed from Beasts of Chaos to Unloved Orphans of Chaos?

The Bestigores... or whatever the ranked up ones at the front are. They're... very plain. All in the same pose, all with the same horns. Very uninspired. They'll not doubt be the Goldswords of this release - Goldhorns maybe?

And the Minotaurs are just damned ugly. Hideous models with stupidly OTT musculature.

The Razorgore is just laughable.

Characters are very nice.

If Randroid's rumors are true, RIP skirmishing Beastmen. That would officially be the death of Germanic-style skirmishers, and of most of my interest in WHFB. That trend started when Alessio "I Play Brettonians and Skaven in big squares" Cavatore march-blocked skirmishers in this edition of the core rules. It's a whole realm of interesting ancient tactics thrown out the window. Crap.

Chariot horde armies are still in, though (again, only if these rumors are true). Hmmm. A chariot horde (8+) with a few Razorgors and Centigors could make things more interesting, now that Beastmen are another boring ranked army.

Well, I'll be buying up a few boxes of current Beastherds before the price doubles, playing a few trial games to see whether a chariot horde could be fun, and then probably scrapping my horde into a 40K conversion.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Bestigores... or whatever the ranked up ones at the front are. They're... very plain. All in the same pose, all with the same horns. Very uninspired. They'll not doubt be the Goldswords of this release - Goldhorns maybe?

And the Minotaurs are just damned ugly. Hideous models with stupidly OTT musculature.

The Razorgore is just laughable.

Characters are very nice.

Bestigolds?

Goldgors?

And someone should make a chariot for Nagash, pulled by two Razorgors...

Hmm, this stuff looks somewhat of a letdown after the very nice skaven kits. The core of the army (gors/ungors) were nice when they were released and still are. I also think that the mino-kit could be workable if one converts/covers the legs to look less slowed, as the upper bodies look decent. Razorgore looks awful, though. +

Well I suppose if I do still decide to start BoC I can finally make a use for my FW Giant Spined Chaos Best as the Razorgore I dont imagine anyone having a problem with that

If Randroid's rumors are true, RIP skirmishing Beastmen

Perhaps more importantly, what is happening to the "Ambush" rule for Beastmen? If they lose that along with the skirmishing aspect of the army that changes all the fundamental character of how they operate in games.

Re: the Pumbagore

Just remember. Hakuna Mattatah means no worries!

Hmmm , need talented song / poem writters to make a BOC version of Hakuna Matata