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^that has nothing to do with wound shenanigans. Just means if you have different type of characters you can try to pass the wound to a different nobz on a 4+, but you have to do it for every unsaved wound I believe. Don't have the rulebook with me at the moment

Look out sir! Works of wounds, not unsaved wounds. If a model attempt so save another character, it has to use its own saves to prevent that wound. The character does not get to use his save in that case.

However, as you resolve wound one by one, you could use the save of your MA Warboss until he has only one wound left, and then start allocating all further wounds to boyz on a 2+

Yeah, but when you use Look Out, Sir!, do you get to choose what model takes the wound instead on a successful roll of 4+?

Example: A nobz mob takes 10 bolter wounds. They all have 'eavy armor and FNP. Using Look Out, Sir! you redistribute 5 wounds to 5 different nobs other than the front one. The one in front makes two armor saves and two FNP saves, leaving him with one wound. Two other nobs fail both armor saves and FNP, leaving you with three different nobs that have taken one wound each. Next turn you shuffle the nobs around a bit, so another nob with both wounds intact is in front. They are all characters, so they all get LOS! In other words, wound allocation shenanigans.

Would this work, or are there any restrictions to prevent it?

TedNugent wrote:When a Force Weapon is activated, does it ignore Feel No Pain?

The way I saw it played yesterday at GW was this: Force Weapons don't get activated until you cause a wound, so they have to fail any armour saves (termies) and/or FNP before the Force weapon power works.

So no, it doesn't ignore Feel No Pain (yay at least our nobs get a save before they expload)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tgjensen wrote:Yeah, but when you use Look Out, Sir!, do you get to choose what model takes the wound instead on a successful roll of 4+?

Example: A nobz mob takes 10 bolter wounds. They all have 'eavy armor and FNP. Using Look Out, Sir! you redistribute 5 wounds to 5 different nobs other than the front one. The one in front makes two armor saves and two FNP saves, leaving him with one wound. Two other nobs fail both armor saves and FNP, leaving you with three different nobs that have taken one wound each. Next turn you shuffle the nobs around a bit, so another nob with both wounds intact is in front. They are all characters, so they all get LOS! In other words, wound allocation shenanigans.

Would this work, or are there any restrictions to prevent it?

Someone told me that Look Out Sir! could only be used once (But since i've not got a rulebook here I haven't checked that)

wat does it mean by more bublewrapping nbz with power klaws? does this mean we are not allowd them?

fl2000orks40k wrote:wat does it mean by more bublewrapping nbz with power klaws? does this mean we are not allowd them?

What it means is moving your klaws towards the center of the mob of boys, and toward the back of a nob unit with some vanilla or big choppa nobs to soak up the initial hits. Let the front row die off, move up during your step, and start stomping.

At least, that's how some of the vets at my store think it'll work, but they don't play orks so I'll have to test it. What helps though is that models move up 3" every Initiative phase, so even if the nob was stuck at the back, he'll move up several inches before he has to swing. So if you're clever, you should be able to keep the nob alive plenty long enough to attack back.

Also, finally found the KFF thing mentioned earlier. Gives the force field to ALL units within 6", which just made orks very tempting as allies for my guard. Now I can give my guardsmen a +5 cover save no matter what! can't wait to blend power blobs and green tide and see what happens...

KFF cant affect allies, as it says that they gain no benefit from your abilities(unless you are battle brothers)

Force Weapons activate after a unsaved wound. Until then not instant death so you get FNP

The reason you multi charge with orks is to eat up the overwatch shooting of a unit before charging in with your heavy hitters. Gretchin might actually be interesting. Throw them in a transport or something, have them multi-charge a few units. Eat up the overwatch(and maybe get killed, who cares) then have your orks charge in.

Flashgits + more dakka in a battlewagon could be a quite mobile damage output

Also orks + necron allies. Just throwing it out there. Looking at CCB lord, Gauss immortals with veil, and a few heavy destroyers or a doom scythe. Nice little chunk of pure anti-tank added to the list.

Hmmm... KFF downgraded to a 5+ is a blow, but expected. Ork vehicles are notably weaker - but maybe the hull points shall help with that.

Basically, the only way to see how this all works is to play some damned games

The global meta shift will most likely affect how Orks are played considerably more, than direct rule changes. I may have to take a fresh new look at my list, I may only need to tweak a few things. Gonna need to actually try it all out first.

Yea burnaboyz and MANz are going to be the shiz now. Then again, burnaboyz were always the shiz, but the point still stands.

Can someone explain why Ork vehicles will be more vulnerable then before? I dont have the book in front of me to find out for myself

Its just an all around vehicles are a tad more vulnerable since the changes to glancing and hull points

Is it just me or did Deff Rolla's also get a slight buff? Can someone please verify the following two:

Skimmers can only use their Jink (+5 or +4 if turbo-boosted) to avoid being rammed.

Walkers no longer have a section that say they can brace for impact while being rammed and can no longer death or glory. (Pg.84 last paragraph)

Am I missing something?

tgjensen wrote:Yeah, but when you use Look Out, Sir!, do you get to choose what model takes the wound instead on a successful roll of 4+?

Example: A nobz mob takes 10 bolter wounds. They all have 'eavy armor and FNP. Using Look Out, Sir! you redistribute 5 wounds to 5 different nobs other than the front one. The one in front makes two armor saves and two FNP saves, leaving him with one wound. Two other nobs fail both armor saves and FNP, leaving you with three different nobs that have taken one wound each. Next turn you shuffle the nobs around a bit, so another nob with both wounds intact is in front. They are all characters, so they all get LOS! In other words, wound allocation shenanigans.

Would this work, or are there any restrictions to prevent it?

I often miss nuances the first time round, but this is my interpretation:

Look out sir can only be used once per inflicted wound. It needs a 4+

So, the character might send a few wounds onto other models, but half will hit it. The look out sir! rolls can be allocated to different models, so there is scope for scaled-down shenanigans, if your character is nearest to the enemy. But, of course, your character is more likely to die that way, as it will weather half of hits.

But, I think you would be hard pressed to argue that any one nob in a nob mob is a character. That said, I'll wait to see the arguments.

KingCracker wrote:Yea burnaboyz and MANz are going to be the shiz now. Then again, burnaboyz were always the shiz, but the point still stands.

Can someone explain why Ork vehicles will be more vulnerable then before? I dont have the book in front of me to find out for myself

pens are equally as dangerous statistically (but you always explode instead of wreck)
glances will wreck you when you run out of hull points, so there's never going to be that trukk or BW that just won't die.
In all, bigger vehicles go down far easier to glances, but smaller vehicles like buggies, kans, trukks, got more survivability since they can't explode in one glance, and at the same time a streak of bad rolling luck can't make one never die either.

Leth wrote:KFF cant affect allies, as it says that they gain no benefit from your abilities(unless you are battle brothers)

Force Weapons activate after a unsaved wound. Until then not instant death so you get FNP

The reason you multi charge with orks is to eat up the overwatch shooting of a unit before charging in with your heavy hitters. Gretchin might actually be interesting. Throw them in a transport or something, have them multi-charge a few units. Eat up the overwatch(and maybe get killed, who cares) then have your orks charge in.

Flashgits + more dakka in a battlewagon could be a quite mobile damage output

Also orks + necron allies. Just throwing it out there. Looking at CCB lord, Gauss immortals with veil, and a few heavy destroyers or a doom scythe. Nice little chunk of pure anti-tank added to the list.

The thing about the KFF though is that it specifically says ALL units. not just orks, not your orks and an ally, but everything. even your enemy gets KFF saves if they're in 6" or less from the mek. To show what I'm talking about, here's the codex entry under the big mek.

"Kustom Force Field: Meks will build or scavenge powerful force field projectors with which to protect their warty hides. A kustom force field gives all units within 6" of the mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets. The force field has no effect in an assault."

I'm not even trying to be a TFG, that's just what the codex says. If it was friendly only, like strakens furious charge bubble, it would say it(or get faq'd, which is very likely), but as it's written now, it affects everything. so now, you have to let your opponent know he's got a +5 cover save if he get's close enough to your mek. I can imagine that conversation now.

Ork player: "dont worry, you'll get a +5 save if you get within 6" of my mek! It works for everyone!"
Ig player: "what about the giant mob of boyz right next to him?"
Ork: "ahh dont worry about them, you'll have a +5 cover save! "

Jidmah wrote:Look out sir! Works of wounds, not unsaved wounds. If a model attempt so save another character, it has to use its own saves to prevent that wound. The character does not get to use his save in that case.

However, as you resolve wound one by one, you could use the save of your MA Warboss until he has only one wound left, and then start allocating all further wounds to boyz on a 2+

Actually Jidmah, Look out, Sir can be used on an unsaved wound. Look at the parenthesis in the introduction of the rule on pg 16.

Ranting Fool wrote:
....
Someone told me that Look Out Sir! could only be used once (But since i've not got a rulebook here I haven't checked that)

Used once per allocated wound to the character.

Jidmah wrote:Look out sir! Works of wounds, not unsaved wounds. If a model attempt so save another character, it has to use its own saves to prevent that wound. The character does not get to use his save in that case.

However, as you resolve wound one by one, you could use the save of your MA Warboss until he has only one wound left, and then start allocating all further wounds to boyz on a 2+

Kind of.

If the models have different saves, then you roll for LOS and allocate them before you roll saves.

If the models all have the same save, then you roll your saves, then roll LOS and allocate after.

ICs pass their LOS roll on a 2+

Furthermore, anyone who says you may only reallocate a wound once per turn is wrong. You can onlly reallocate a single wound once. So you can't waste your opponent's time by bouncing a wound around a bunch of characters in a unit until they get frustrated and throw you out a window. You may, however, use LOS on as many wounds as you want.

Fafnir wrote:Really annoyed about what they've done with reserves.

I really, really, really like Snikrot and his boyz, but now they're complete garbage. The only positive thing to come out of it is that there'll be more room in my case, knowing that I can leave my kommandoes back home when I leave town after the summer.

100% agree. Poor Snik got quite the kick in the short pants!

tgjensen wrote:Yeah, but when you use Look Out, Sir!, do you get to choose what model takes the wound instead on a successful roll of 4+?

Example: A nobz mob takes 10 bolter wounds. They all have 'eavy armor and FNP. Using Look Out, Sir! you redistribute 5 wounds to 5 different nobs other than the front one. The one in front makes two armor saves and two FNP saves, leaving him with one wound. Two other nobs fail both armor saves and FNP, leaving you with three different nobs that have taken one wound each. Next turn you shuffle the nobs around a bit, so another nob with both wounds intact is in front. They are all characters, so they all get LOS! In other words, wound allocation shenanigans.

Would this work, or are there any restrictions to prevent it?

This would work. You nominate the model which will do Look out Sir! before rolling.

Ranting Fool wrote:

TedNugent wrote:When a Force Weapon is activated, does it ignore Feel No Pain?

The way I saw it played yesterday at GW was this: Force Weapons don't get activated until you cause a wound, so they have to fail any armour saves (termies) and/or FNP before the Force weapon power works.

So no, it doesn't ignore Feel No Pain (yay at least our nobs get a save before they expload)

That's not what the rules say, FNP triggers off unsaved wounds. See my last post for what they do say.

Someone told me that Look Out Sir! could only be used once (But since i've not got a rulebook here I haven't checked that)

With all due respect, if you don't have a rulebook, maybe don't answer questions concerning it?

Leth wrote:KFF cant affect allies, as it says that they gain no benefit from your abilities(unless you are battle brothers)

That's not what the rules say. The rules say treat allies as enemy units you can not shoot, charge, etc. There is no longer a rule or FAQ preventing the KFF from affecting enemy models.

Force Weapons activate after a unsaved wound. Until then not instant death so you get FNP

FNP also activates after unsaved wounds. There are rules for two effects activating at once in the rulebook, as detailed above.

The reason you multi charge with orks is to eat up the overwatch shooting of a unit before charging in with your heavy hitters. Gretchin might actually be interesting. Throw them in a transport or something, have them multi-charge a few units. Eat up the overwatch(and maybe get killed, who cares) then have your orks charge in.

Enemy units can opt to not overwatch, and shoot the next attackers if they are not in combat.

KingCracker wrote:Yea burnaboyz and MANz are going to be the shiz now. Then again, burnaboyz were always the shiz, but the point still stands.

Can someone explain why Ork vehicles will be more vulnerable then before? I dont have the book in front of me to find out for myself

The aren't. All vehicles are now more likely to die over the course of the game, rather than surviving a hundred glances, but are much more unlikely to die during the first turns.

AresX8 wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Look out sir! Works of wounds, not unsaved wounds. If a model attempt so save another character, it has to use its own saves to prevent that wound. The character does not get to use his save in that case.

However, as you resolve wound one by one, you could use the save of your MA Warboss until he has only one wound left, and then start allocating all further wounds to boyz on a 2+

Actually Jidmah, Look out, Sir can be used on an unsaved wound. Look at the parenthesis in the introduction of the rule on pg 16.

Only at the time it is allocated. You would usually not allocate an unsaved wound to a model with different save.

I'd also appreciate if people read the entire thread or at least the first post of this thread before posting an awesome buff to orks for the fifth time.

Just to summarize LOS, here's a post I've posted in the FAQ thread, because some people still don't get it:

Fafnir wrote:First of all, you can LOS as many wounds in a turn as you like. There is no restriction on this. The restriction is that you can only LOS a single wound once. What this means is that you cannot bounce a wound around a unit of characters until your opponent gets tired and throws you out a window. That is all. There is no other limitation.

Second, you have to keep in mind when wounds and saves are allocated.

If all the models in the unit will be using the same save, then you LOS and allocate the wounds all at the same time, AFTER any saving throws have been rolled (although supposedly before FnP).

If the models are going to have different saves, then you roll LOS for the first wound, allocate the wound, and THEN roll any applicable saves from the new receiving model, before repeating the process with the next wound. Also keep in mind that the shooting player gets to decide what order these wounds are saved in.

So although there's a lot of things to exploit and take advantage of with this new system, there are a few restrictions to keep in mind:

-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pass a better save on to models with weaker saves.
-This means that you may NOT use LOS to pile all the instant-death wounds on to a single model.

Nice summary

Jidmah wrote:
I think you are talking about BA's Fear in the Dark or something?

Fearless makes you auto-pass pinning, morale, regroup and fear checks, but not regular leadership tests. You also can not go to ground for any reason, including pinning.

Telepathy, page 423:

4. Terrify - within 24", 1 enemy unit receives no benefit from Fearless and all enemy units (presumably caster's units) within 24" have Fear, finally immediately forces a Morale check upon target unit.

Specifically what I am asking is how does that affect a unit of Ork Boyz, 30 strong, with the Mob Rule special rule.

You would simply make a leadership test on the value of 10, rerollable with a boss pole, as it's a moral check.

Big meks being able to repair to hull points is great for Kan wall lists.

So I played a game against my buddy's BA, and let me say that overwatch with large mobs of shoota boyz is absolutely ridiculous! So many dice rolls and so many dead marines, all killed when he tried to assault lol

l0k1 wrote:Big meks being able to repair to hull points is great for Kan wall lists.

I don't think there are going to be Kan Wall lists any more. There's no reason for that configuration as you get no bonus to your cover saves by using Kans.

I've played about 4 games of 6th so far.

I still like vehicles. I don't think the hull points is that much of a nerf to my transports. I don't care if they die on turn two, I want them effective (not stunned/immobilized) for turn one. The new system seems to accomplish this fairly well. If you don't kill my battlewagon, it will be screaming 18 inches in turn 1. After that, I don't care to much because you have 20 boyz or 5 meganobz or 15 burnaz or tons of other orky goodness in your deployment zone. I'm not saying vehicles aren't nerfed, but they certainly aren't unplayable, and still form the core of a very viable assault army.

I like flyers. In the few games I've played my dakka jet, its been ignored, (6's to hit or not). With so many screaming boyz in the enemy's deployment zone by the turn it comes in, your opponent is just going to ignore it. Which is bad for them. Honestly, it does a LOT of wounds. I've put 17 wounds on a termi squad. I've wiped out entire firewarrior teams. I also like the way that flyers feel. They feel very much like a jet. Something that screams over head, does a lot of damage, then flys off and will be back later. Its a very different feel from a unit on the ground, holding an area, etc. The flyers are excellent 'problem' solvers. They have the flexibility and speed to be able to deal with the unexpected or the mistakes that a novice general (like myself) makes when units get caught out of position.

TedNugent wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Big meks being able to repair to hull points is great for Kan wall lists.

I don't think there are going to be Kan Wall lists any more. There's no reason for that configuration as you get no bonus to your cover saves by using Kans.

Are you referring to KFF only granting a 5+ cover save? It's a 5+ instead of a 4+ but good.

l0k1 wrote:Big meks being able to repair to hull points is great for Kan wall lists.

So I played a game against my buddy's BA, and let me say that overwatch with large mobs of shoota boyz is absolutely ridiculous! So many dice rolls and so many dead marines, all killed when he tried to assault lol

Beautiful. I guess I dont have to worry too much about assault marines jumping on my boyz. I just know my brother will bring some in the first few games we play. Also, I need to get ta buildin a Jet or two


And cool on the vehicles, I never thought trukks were very survivable anyways (mainly why I moved away from trukk mobz) but I still use them for nob bombz, or in this new case, MANz missiles will be a regular feature in my builds

l0k1 wrote:

TedNugent wrote:

l0k1 wrote:Big meks being able to repair to hull points is great for Kan wall lists.

I don't think there are going to be Kan Wall lists any more. There's no reason for that configuration as you get no bonus to your cover saves by using Kans.

Are you referring to KFF only granting a 5+ cover save? It's a 5+ instead of a 4+ but good.

I think he meant the boys hiding behind the kans are at 5 as well now. But still a 5+ cover save for your whole army is better than no cover saves. Kans get 2 HPs so it might be a fair trade off, I'll withhold judgement on that til I've played a few games with it.

doctorludo wrote:But, I think you would be hard pressed to argue that any one nob in a nob mob is a character. That said, I'll wait to see the arguments.

I got to have a look in the rulebook today. The thing is, Meganobz and Flash Gits are listed as regular infantry whereas Biker Nobs, 'Ard Boy Nobs and Nobs are listed as characters. This leads you to conclude that the Nobs entry refers to regular Boyz mob Nobs, and that they goofed in not making a separate entry for Nobs mobs (and presumably Biker Nobs would refer to Warbiker upgrades) - but none-the-less, as written, Nobs mobs are a bunch of characters. It's worth noting that Paladins are also all characters, and while I don't have that codex, my friend told me you can only take those in squads, not as upgrades, as well.

Yep, if they don't overwatch they might be in combat, if they do overwatch they definitely cant overwatch the next target. Either way the target unit(s) cant shoot.

Okay on the FNP vs Force weapon debate. They both activate at the same time. You take your test, your force property is now activated. I take my FNP the wound is for all intents and purposes negated.

So i guess your weapon has the force property now, and you have used a power but the wound does not go through.