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CthuluIsSpy wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

GrumpyJester wrote:

Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright

I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.

Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:

- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points

Not overpriced as far as Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals are concerned. Scarabs are a bit costly since they can be instantly killed with their T3. No opinion about the rest.

Not really. The scarabs can get WWB, and they have entropic strike.

In fact, Scarabs seem to be quite powerful for what they can achieve. The enemy will be hard pressed to take them down before they reach his tanks.

Just math-hammered the new immortals/warriors (without Cover).

For the same amount of points 221, (13 immortals, 17warriors):

MEQ's carbine - 2.89, blaster - 1.93, 3.85 rf, flayer - 1.89 3.98 rf.
For any troops unit with 4+ save the blaster significantly beats either, 7 (14 rf) models as opposed to 5 for the carbine and 4 (8 rf) for the flayer.
Troops with 5+ save will lose about 7models (15 rf) with the blaster/flayer and carbine only 7.
Terminators are basically marines with half the death rate.

Basically the only difference is how you would play them and the model count and their survivability. I'd probably use the carbines as foot sluggers and put immortals/warriors in the ghost arcs to get into rapid fire range.

How could flayers possibly be better than blasters? They have 1 less strength and no other bonuses that I can see.

I was really considering taking Imhotek until I saw that he didn't have a p-wep - at the moment I think Zandrekh and Obyron are the go. The overlord giveth and the overlord taketh away. How soon do you think the flier models will be released - the both look awesome in rules, and hopefully in model as well.

4 more warriors than there are immortals. better shooting, less survivability. and i think immortals don't get arks.

EDIT: Spelling

Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.

Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.

I think that the Nids attacked while everyone is asleep (before the Necrons have taken a blow torch to the 'local' population). The Nid attack tends to make bad things happen, and that will certainly kill off sleeping necrons.
Seems like one of the named Lords has taken an aggressive "No Nid" policy, and is taking the fight to the bugs.

Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.

If you're gonna employ a phrase like "explicitly stated" you better be prepared to produce a quotation and/or page reference when somebody (like me) requests it.

I think we can all agree that's it been said that Tyranids avoid Necron strongholds, but I don't remember their motives for doing so ever being made explicit. It's mostly been speculation, iirc. Furthermore, even if it was stated I suspect there's a strong likelihood that it was in an Imperial PoV, and therefore sourced from an unreliable narrator.

Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.

Altruizine wrote:Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.

This is the only rationalization that makes sense, but even still, this tidbit of fluff is easily my least favorite with this book, currently. I get they're moving away from them being the 40K borg essentially, and individualizing them. I even sort of like it despite the fact that it does humanize (and thus demystify) them quite a bit. The part with the Necron trading with other races is a rough one as well, but they haven't queered the deal yet; I could certainly see the Tau being open to this if the Necrons were reasonable. The part with Necrons serving as mercenaries is appalling, but I'm holding my tongue on that since if it's just for intra-Necron wars it's not too bad.

But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.

The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.

I'm not sure about you guys but the 115 pt transport that is AV11 open topped seems to be eating points and giving away a free kill point. Some people have been comparing them to Eldar or Tau transports but both of those are way more survivable then ours, we are much closer to the a ED raider made out of paper. If you go up vs someone that knows how the game works he will see that is an easy fast kill point. Then is even before he finds out that it can help rez D3 models form a unit.

From what I understand the transport is not fast so you can't over boost to get a cover save. So holding one or two in reserve seems to be my only option if I really wanted to use them.

Except it's not AV11, it's AV13 until the first penetrating hit. And has a chance to ignore shaken and stunned.

Ouze wrote:

Altruizine wrote:Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.

This is the only rationalization that makes sense, but even still, this tidbit of fluff is easily my least favorite with this book, currently. I get they're moving away from them being the 40K borg essentially, and individualizing them. I even sort of like it despite the fact that it does humanize (and thus demystify) them quite a bit. The part with the Necron trading with other races is a rough one as well, but they haven't queered the deal yet; I could certainly see the Tau being open to this if the Necrons were reasonable. The part with Necrons serving as mercenaries is appalling, but I'm holding my tongue on that since if it's just for intra-Necron wars it's not too bad.

But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.

The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.

Wait for the codex to read what it really uses to explain it. If it's just "Necron BFE Dynasty destroyed by Tyranids - m41" then I think everyone will be like "lolwut?" Otherwise no biggie.

Balor wrote:I'm not sure about you guys but the 115 pt transport that is AV11 open topped seems to be eating points and giving away a free kill point. Some people have been comparing them to Eldar or Tau transports but both of those are way more survivable then ours, we are much closer to the a ED raider made out of paper. If you go up vs someone that knows how the game works he will see that is an easy fast kill point. Then is even before he finds out that it can help rez D3 models form a unit.

From what I understand the transport is not fast so you can't over boost to get a cover save. So holding one or two in reserve seems to be my only option if I really wanted to use them.

Read about Quantum Shielding on the first page. Also, WD says it takes a penetrating hit break it.

So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:

Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.

A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....

Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?

List for Zhandrekh and Obryon at 2500 points:

-HQ-
Zhandrekh+Obryon (since i coundn't find how much they cost in points, gonna say they cost 300 points)
Crypteks (up to 100 points worth)
-Troops-
10x Warriors in Ghost (245 points)
10x Warriors in Ghost (245 points)
10x Immortals (170 points)
-Fast Attack-
2x Heavy Destroyers, 1x Destroyer (160 points)
6x Wraiths (going with 40 points each, so 240 points)
6x Wraiths (240 points)
-Heavy Support-
Monolith (200 points)
Monolith (200 points)
-Elite-
10x Ptaetorerians (400 points)

Seem like a good list?

Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:

Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.

A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....

Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?

There was some talk about it early on. Anyway, nothing about that statement lends me to jump to the Primarch conclusion. ALL space marines are giants among men, and baroque power armor basicly just means that it's elaborate, which being a subjective term, really could belong to any important or well-decorated marine.

Was the armor normal space marine size (10 feet tall) or primarch size (15 feet?)

I thought space marines were 10 foot out of armour and 12 foot in?

Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.

Ouze wrote:But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.

The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.

You guys need to start citing page numbers before you bring up fluff "rapeage".

There is to my knowledge nothing in the existing Necron codex that discusses Necron-Tyranid relationships. There's just the small bit of artwork on the back cover showing a hive fleet apparently avoiding Necrons. All the theories as to why this happened are strictly inventions of the customer base.

Besides, part of the point of the fluff is to justify the army matchups that occur when we play games against one another. That's all this is doing.

Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:

Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.

A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....

Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?

Actually me and a SW buddy theorize its Leman Russ. He cut a deal to suspend himself until the Wolftime... lol

Ouze wrote:Was the armor normal space marine size (10 feet tall) or primarch size (15 feet?)

I'm sure it has to Be Primarch size. Necrons are nearly space marine Height at like 9 Feet, so who would care if it was a 10 foot space marine? Of course only a Primarch would be a "giant of a man" to them. and Plus, who would care if he had a regular space marine captive? It wouldn't even be worth he text in the codex.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:You realize that out of all the Necron releases, only the Flayed Ones have any skulls on the model, right? And those are actually appropriate.
I'm not counting Necron heads as those don't really count.

Well, Necrons are an army of metal skeletons, so not considering all Necrons is a bit much to ask. Beside that, the vehicles are full of coffin shapes, including the thrusters, the Monolith and Ghost Ark (the latter two inverted).

Ouze wrote:So, are Necrons actually IN November's WD? Or just on the back page, and they'll be in Decembers?

Hint: Have you ever seen a full battle report on the backpage of the WD?

corpsesarefun wrote:I thought space marines were 10 foot out of armour and 12 foot in?

I think they're just over 10ft in armour. Primarch's are normally around 12ft I think, with giants like Magnus weighing in at 15.

I'm 5'7", so I'd (personally) class a regualar 10 foot-er as "a giant of a man".

Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order? I mean I have been lurking and waiting but no sign yet... perhaps one of the more learned rumor people could enlighten me?
Cheers: TTK

At the end of the battle report in the new WD, there is box of text which finishes of the Narrative battle just played. In it, Trazyn appears before Sicarius and tells him that Guilliman is an old friend, and that he plans to visit Mcragge very soon to take the frozen Primarch away as, and I quote "You don't deserve him."

Make of that what you will

Or maybe WD writers totally screwing with fluff by writing random crap about whatever they want.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:

Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.

A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....

Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?

There was some talk about it early on. Anyway, nothing about that statement lends me to jump to the Primarch conclusion. ALL space marines are giants among men, and baroque power armor basicly just means that it's elaborate, which being a subjective term, really could belong to any important or well-decorated marine.

This guy is spot on.

I think Games Workshop clearly wrote it to imply that it's a Primarch - and therefore create hype/speculation like this - but to also leave it ambiguous so it can still be debated over. IIRC a similar thing occurs in the new DE 'dex.
I wouldn't think about it too much; I highly doubt an answer will ever be revealed.

Sasori wrote:

Ouze wrote:Was the armor normal space marine size (10 feet tall) or primarch size (15 feet?)

I'm sure it has to Be Primarch size. Necrons are nearly space marine Height at like 9 Feet, so who would care if it was a 10 foot space marine? Of course only a Primarch would be a "giant of a man" to them. and Plus, who would care if he had a regular space marine captive? It wouldn't even be worth he text in the codex.

Well the specific mention of 'baroque power armor' says the figure is old - VERY OLD in Imperial terms. Modern Artificer Armors are often listed as 'Ornate' or some other term, but the Legionary Armors (MkI-MkIV?) are often described as 'Baroque.'

Farquestor wrote:

Actually me and a SW buddy theorize its Leman Russ. He cut a deal to suspend himself until the Wolftime... lol

My initial bet was on Vulcan. Think i remember some fluff about him hiding some artifacts away for his chapter to find and when they got them all he would return. (don't quote me on this, my memory isn't the strongest on this)
Could be related, could be totally unrelated....who knows.


But that part of the description of a necron lord is the best troll text in ages

G. Whitenbeard wrote:

FalkorsRaiders wrote:I am gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the build for the internet's "competetive build" for necrons at 2500points

snip arkspam list. I have done no math or play tests or anything, but I have a feeling it will be like this or at least with 4 warriors in ghosts and a filled out cryptek/lord royal court.

That is a lot of Arks

"They BELONG in a museum!"

gorgon wrote:You guys need to start citing page numbers before you bring up fluff "rapeage".

There is to my knowledge nothing in the existing Necron codex that discusses Necron-Tyranid relationships. There's just the small bit of artwork on the back cover showing a hive fleet apparently avoiding Necrons. All the theories as to why this happened are strictly inventions of the customer base.

In addition to the back cover, this is also referenced in the Necron Codex on page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 21. It's made explicit that they avoid necrons because there is no biomass for them to consume.

pretre wrote:"They BELONG in a museum!"

"So do YOU!"