More IG info from Warseer *Update 3/16/09: hands-on info from reds8n*

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**Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar**

US release sheet:

May 1st
42-06 IMPERIAL GUARD CATACHAN JUNGLE FIGHTERS 10 Fig Box $22.00 New - Repackaged
42-10 IMPERIAL GUARD CATACHAN COMMAND SQUAD 5 Fig Box $22.00 New
47-01-60 CODEX IMPERIAL GUARD (ENGLISH) 104pp Book $25.00 New
47-09 IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN COMMAND SQUAD 5 Fig Box $22.00 New
47-10 IMPERIAL GUARD VALKYRIE 1 Fig Box $50.00 New
47-12 IMPERIAL GUARD SENTINEL 1 Fig Box $25.00 New
47-17 IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS 10 Fig Box $22.00 New - Repackaged
47-39 IMPERIAL GUARD RATLINGS 5 Fig Blister $20.00 New - Single Print
47-40 IMPERIAL GUARD PRIMARIS PSYKER 1 Fig Blister $15.00 New - Single Print

May 15th
(DIRECT) IMPERIAL GUARD REGIMENTAL ADVISORS 3 Fig Blister $17.00 New
(DIRECT) IMPERIAL GUARD LORD COMMISSAR 1 Fig Blister $15.00 New
42-11 IMPERIAL GUARD CATACHAN BATTLEFORCE 36 Fig Box $90.00 New
47-20 IMPERIAL GUARD CADIAN BATTLEFORCE 36 Fig Box $90.00 New

**JohnHwangDD**

Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar wrote:US release sheet:

May 1st
47-01-60 CODEX IMPERIAL GUARD (ENGLISH) 104pp Book $25.00 New
47-10 IMPERIAL GUARD VALKYRIE 1 Fig Box $50.00 New
47-12 IMPERIAL GUARD SENTINEL 1 Fig Box $25.00 New

I liked your old name better...

Anyhow, good that we're getting a full-size Codex for the extra $5.

But where are the discounted triple-Valk and triple-Sentinel kits?

**Druidic**

You know, ignoring the bitching, I'm looking forward to the new Codex, it sound like its at the very least firing people up! :-)

Don't play guard myself, very nearly started a guard army with the last codex (Started buying figures, never got arround to gluing them together), and probably still wont be tempted, but only cause I got loads of other stuff on the list to do first.

Hmm, Stormtroopers, So they can jump out of a fast moving deep striking skimmer and re-role the scatter making sure they land where you like.... wonder if that makes some difference to their value?

**Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar**

JohnHwangDD wrote:I liked your old name better...

Forced to change it by admin I'm afraid... fair enough I guess.

Now if only I could get my little flag thingy changed too.

**focusedfire**

@ Kungfu and A-P, Glad there are still some with a sense of humour about something none of us has really seen.

Uhmm... I don't know if anybody has picked up on this. A)But the Valks can move 24" in a turn.
B) Units can deepstrike along that path.
C)Deepstrike units are in reserve.
AND.........wait for it.........
D) Might this mean that with the Valks you don't have to roll for the reserves?

If this is true then may I refer you to my post on page 11. Because, I know people that will be happy to buy your useless overcosted stormies/vespids at one-tenth their normal price because they are so useless that no one will even want to buy one.

**ubermosher**

Call me crazy, but whatever the point costs, whatever the exact rules, this codex sounds fun... You know.... If that still matters.

**Dexy**

Turn 1 "Deep striking" Melta guns next to enemy armour could be pretty cool.

**BoxANT**

Is there any information on Conscripts? How much they cost? Any new rules?

If a basic infantry squad runs 50, then I hope they drop conscripts down to 30. Or if they do leave them at 40, they better get a special rule.

If a squad of vets runs over 80 points, it will be a sad day :(
I really hope they still have infiltrate.

About Valks, i wonder if we will be able to deepstrike a whole platoon out of one of them...

**BrookM**

Valkyrie has space for ten men / five Ogryn / one Sentinel / one Cyclops remote demolition vehicle with operator / one Tarantula sentry gun.

**Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar**

BrookM wrote:Valkyrie has space for ten men / five Ogryn / one Sentinel / one Cyclops remote demolition vehicle with operator / one Tarantula sentry gun.

In Imperial Armour.

And isn't it 12 men anyway?

**foil7102**

All right I will bite. Why would I load 16 point storm troopers into a valkerie, drive it 24 inches, unload and fire. When I can load up Vets, do the same thing cheaper, and probably get more melta guns in there. Yes being able to first turn kill armor would be really cool. But I am going to miss deep strike.

**BrookM**

Right 12 passengers, forgot that.

And I swear by Imperial Armour, it has done a lot to spice up regular games of 40k!

**Chaplain Pallantide**

foil7102 wrote:All right I will bite. Why would I load 16 point storm troopers into a valkerie, drive it 24 inches, unload and fire. When I can load up Vets, do the same thing cheaper, and probably get more melta guns in there. Yes being able to first turn kill armor would be really cool. But I am going to miss deep strike.

I agree with Foil here. Originally I was going to do the whole Storm Trooper Valkyrie heavy army, now I am glad I bought a box of old Catachans (box of 20) for the new box price. I'll bit order the new arms so they look decent, but I'll go for a more Vietnam feel than a new Storm trooper feel.

Plus if Veterans are cheaper, than I'll be able to fit in more cool stuff, like maybe fast roping Ogryns?? Hahaha...sorry couldn't help myself.

**ShumaGorath**

Stop. Stop it, right there. This is rubbish. Armies that didn't prepare are going to suffer, yes. That's WAD anyway you look at it.

Sorry but an army can't cope with ultra high armor mech and green tide at the same time. The game becomes rock paper scissors army list victories when both extremes become commonplace. I liked the old concept of balanced armies (though that hasn't existed since 3e rulebook lists).

**foil7102**

Well I swing from Happy to Sad to middle of the road.

1)50 point ld8 guardsmen with frags.... Not a bargin but not bad
2)Heavy weapons costs did come down... again not a bargin but not bad
3)Orders give people a reason to shoot at my command squads now that standard squads are ld8. Will need to see costs to be sure
4)Stormies are over costed. The only special rule that I can think of that would make them worth 16 points would be if they could reroll to wound and ignore cover... both, not one or the other.
5)Valks are a super cool model, still not sold on the price or rule. 1st turn armor strike is cool, but 100 points... Will wait till I see the book. I have a feeling that they are going to be the sentinal of this edition. Cool model meh rules
6)Tanks. Being able to stay still and shoot all guns and the ordinance is nice, even if the price goes up. I do not think the squadron rule will be the be all end all. Again it comes down to cost, and 210 points for a Russ plasma tank?!? I dont think so.

**focusedfire**

@ foil, to answer your question

First, Not guaranteed that the vets will be able to use the Valks AFAIK. If they can then there is no guarantee that they will be the same as they were.
Also,Don't know the cost of the vets yet. If someone has that cost please let me know. May cost extra for them to use the Valks.(Buy the grav chutes)

Second, Any scatter on the deepstrike mean dangerous terrain test which storms get to re-roll.

Third, not the same as vespids. Come with more options, better armour, can kill tanks, has better range, and has better kill percentages against SMs than vespids for the same price.

Fourth, we don't know what the other special rules or orders are and the squad is already worth buying.

Fifth, Storms don't insta die to bolter wounds. They will make SMs and the sort actually have to turnaround and face them.

Sixth, If you IG players hate them so much the Tau empire would love to have such a force. HHMMMM, traitor storm troopers. Pls let the tau get them as human auxillaries.

**covenant84**

I'm pretty excited, but hoping that everyone I play with doesn't jump on the guard bandwaggon, I'd rather they stick with current armies. A lot of the folks I play with tend to jump around following GW's latest releases as they're so cool (and after a few months end up back being just another marine player!). I'll start my shopping list now, the gf's already asked what I want for Easter, some pre-orders heading her way I think!!!

**foil7102**

First, Not guaranteed that the vets will be able to use the Valks AFAIK. If they can then there is no guarantee that they will be the same as they were.
Also,Don't know the cost of the vets yet. If someone has that cost please let me know. May cost extra for them to use the Valks.(Buy the grav chutes)
(Valks are fast attack. If they can move stormies, they can move vets, if they can move ogryn, they can move vets)

Second, Any scatter on the deepstrike mean dangerous terrain test which storms get to re-roll.
(they get to re-roll the scatter, besides so what if I have to take a dangerous terrain test? This unit lands and dies. Who cares as long as the melta guns make it)

Third, not the same as vespids. Come with more options, better armour, can kill tanks, has better range, and has better kill percentages against SMs than vespids for the same price.

Fourth, we don't know what the other special rules or orders are and the squad is already worth buying.
(please see my previous post)

Fifth, Storms don't insta die to bolter wounds. They will make SMs and the sort actually have to turnaround and face them.
(stormies will never live past the turn they drop, never. Don't care if they have a 3+ save)

Sixth, If you IG players hate them so much the Tau empire would love to have such a force. HHMMMM, traitor storm troopers. Pls let the tau get them as human auxillaries.
(I would love to have the firewarriors you guys love to hate)

**Death By Monkeys**

focusedfire wrote:First, Not guaranteed that the vets will be able to use the Valks AFAIK. If they can then there is no guarantee that they will be the same as they were.
Also,Don't know the cost of the vets yet. If someone has that cost please let me know. May cost extra for them to use the Valks.(Buy the grav chutes)

But if Valks can't carry Vets, then what's to say they can carry regular Platoon squads? Really, if only Stormtroopers can be carried, then it's worthless. And other than restrictions based on size (Terminators, Ogryns, etc.) what other transports in the game have restrictions based on troop type? A Falcon can carry Harlequins as easily as it can carry Dire Avengers, right? Putting an arbitrary rule saying that "only Stormies" can ride would be pretty ridiculous - and while I believe that GW can be pretty dumb sometimes, I don't believe they're that silly.

focusedfire wrote:Third, not the same as vespids. Come with more options, better armour, can kill tanks, has better range, and has better kill percentages against SMs than vespids for the same price.

But like Vespids, in the context of other units in their Codex, they're as useless. There are other units that will fill their role better and more cheaply. But for that matter, when did the 16 point Stormtrooper become gospel? Did Reds8n say that was their price? Has anyone who has seen the codex said they will be 16 points? Or is this all a lot of hubbub over conjecture?

For that matter, when did the 210 point Executioner become gospel, too? Folks are throwing these numbers around like they know they're certain and from what I've seen, even the folks who've seen the codex haven't mentioned the pricetag.

**focusedfire**

@ foil,

First, We don't know this until we see the rules.

Second, rerolling the scatter doesn't just save you the dangerous terrain test, it lets you be insanely more aggressive in the points you pick for your deepstriking units.
Why do I say this? Because I always run a "sucide" crisis squad and with the Pathfinder devilfish I get to re-roll my deepstrikes. That squad always kills because I place the unit a lot closer to the table edge and the opponents tanks. Whats funny about this suicide squad is that it survives about 40% of the time and when some one really focuses on getting rid of this 92 pt unit it takes a disproportionate amount of fire off of the rest of the army.

Third, No response to the vespid comparison. Good. You may not of made the comparison yourself but you went right along with it. Now the Vespids I occasionally complain about mainly due to them being jump infantry that can't deepstrike. If they could I'd start using them again on occasion.

Fourth, this whining about cover when your within 12-18" is annoying. Usually you can get into a position where they don't get cover. Especially with deepstrike.

Fifth, the amount of fire power and heat they'll take off of the rest of the army while the opponent tries to kill that 6 strong 108pt team(With weapons) makes them worth it.

Sixth,I don't hate my fire warriors. I love what they do to exposed troops. I hate the 4+ cover every where because someone snezzed and the sneeze particulates now deflect the shots.(That last part was an exagerration and at least we have markerlights, thats right, I love and still play my Tau army.)

**Chaplain Pallantide**

Who honestly uses Vespids? Most of the build I have ever seen for Tau ignore them outright, for much the same reasons people are going to ignore Storm Troopers, they are overpriced for what they do.

**focusedfire**

Death By Monkeys wrote:But if Valks can't carry Vets, then what's to say they can carry regular Platoon squads? Really, if only Stormtroopers can be carried, then it's worthless. And other than restrictions based on size (Terminators, Ogryns, etc.) what other transports in the game have restrictions based on troop type? A Falcon can carry Harlequins as easily as it can carry Dire Avengers, right? Putting an arbitrary rule saying that "only Stormies" can ride would be pretty ridiculous - and while I believe that GW can be pretty dumb sometimes, I don't believe they're that silly.

Just trying to make the point that we don't know the rules yet. So don't get storms=bad stuck in the head. Keep an open mind until you see for yourself if they contain massive amounts of suckage.

Now it would be just like GW to make gravechuting cost extra for squads that don't have the deepstrike rule to use the valk feature and it being free for the ones that arleady have it in their profile(The Storms)

Death By Monkeys wrote:But like Vespids, in the context of other units in their Codex, they're as useless. There are other units that will fill their role better and more cheaply. But for that matter, when did the 16 point Stormtrooper become gospel? Did Reds8n say that was their price? Has anyone who has seen the codex said they will be 16 points? Or is this all a lot of hubbub over conjecture?

For that matter, when did the 210 point Executioner become gospel, too? Folks are throwing these numbers around like they know they're certain and from what I've seen, even the folks who've seen the codex haven't mentioned the pricetag.

Actually, you've made your mind up that they are useless before even seening the codex

. I'm not saying that they are 16pts. just that they would still be very useful at that price. You guys are the only ones I think that would complain about a squad like this. A squad armed with ap3 weapons, able to take 2 meltas or flamers for 6pt/ea, that has a re-rollable deepstrike, infiltrate, better armour than the rest of their army, possible gauranteed first turn deepstrike from reserves, and has extra special orders. OMFG, thats so overpriced.(Thats sarcasm for you blokes that don't get it)

Foil brought up the point of fire warriors. Funny. If I took the 12pt/ea ethereal retinue and gave them the grenades that the storms get for free the they are 16 pts each. A deepstriked squad of storms would annihalate the Ethereal and his retinue, head to head.

**JohnHwangDD**

Those Storms would hit 13 times, and wound / kill 6 or 7.

If the Ethereal were in cover, kill only 3 or 4.

**focusedfire**

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:Who honestly uses Vespids? Most of the build I have ever seen for Tau ignore them outright, for much the same reasons people are going to ignore Storm Troopers, they are overpriced for what they do.

If vespids had re-rollable deepstrike, Sv4+, acces to melta weapons even with their range 12" assault one weapon at thier 16 pts or even at 20pts they'd be spammed so fast it wouldn't even be funny.

**focusedfire**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Those Storms would hit 13 times, and wound / kill 6 or 7.

If the Ethereal were in cover, kill only 3 or 4.

What damage does the Tau do after this? Keeping in mind the squads are the same size. I only used the etheral to show what a bs4 tau costs.

Out of cover only 3-4 FW are left alive to return fire. Those 4 return fire. 5-6 hits, 4-5 wounds, 2-3 dead after saves.

In cover, 6-7 left alive. Those 7 return fire. 9 hits, 7.5ish wounds, 3-4 dead. Next turn the storms move to remove cover and wipe the squad.

**Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar**

Lord Cook just posted this over at WarSeer. Nothing terribly ground-breaking but a lot of it matches up with what I've been told, though some of it doesn't. But there's a few things in there that should upset some people... so enjoy!

Lord Cook wrote:New 'Rumours'

Greetings. My network of ninja spies have been working hard to root out additional information, some of which has come into my possession via unnamed persons. I'm just a middle man, so all I have is what's here, but it should be noted that I trust my source implicitly. Sadly, they do not keep up with the rumour threads, so most of what I got is already all over this thread. This is just the new stuff.

> Many confirmations of existing leaks, such as Orders, advisors as squad upgrades, etc.

> Leadership reducing ability of the psyker choir has a range of 24".

> When merging platoons you pick and choose which squads are merged. So a platoon with five infantry squads could merge them into two units of 20 men and one unit of 10 men, or any combination you like.

> Infantry squad is 50 points. This gets you 10 guardsmen, one of which is a veteran sergeant as standard.

> Meltagun = 10 points. Plasma gun = 15 points. Heavy weapons = 'pretty much the same'. We have rumours of cheaper mortars, so leave a question mark next to heavy weapons for now.

> Veterans now always come in 10 man squads. Troops choice.

> Ogryns are 115 points for a starting squad of 3, and +35 points for each new ogryn on top of that.

> The upgrade character that gives rough riders furious charge also gives them rage.

> Confirmation that chimeras are 55 points including weapons.

> Valkyrie = 115 to 125 points. No mention of what weapons you get for that. Transport capacity of 12. Regardless of how far the valkyie has moved, troops can disembark be deep striking along its movement path. Storm troopers re-roll the scatter dice for deep strike. Troops can still disembark normally. May not carry ogryns.

> Vendetta gunship =115 to 125 points. Exact cost unknown. Simply stated to me as "same sort of points as the valkyrie". Carries three twin-linked lascannons.

> More confirmation of Lumbering Behemoth.

**JohnHwangDD**

Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar wrote:Lord Cook just posted this over at WarSeer.

Thanks!
____

Lord Cook wrote:- When merging platoons you pick and choose which squads are merged.

- Infantry squad is 50 points. This gets you 10 guardsmen, one of which is a veteran sergeant as standard.

- Plasma gun = 15 points.

- Veterans now always come in 10 man squads. Troops choice.

- Ogryns are 115 points for a starting squad of 3, and +35 points for each new ogryn on top of that.

- Confirmation that chimeras are 55 points including weapons.

- Valkyrie = 115 to 125 points. May not carry ogryns.

- Vendetta gunship = 115 to 125 points. Carries three twin-linked lascannons.

Color me unimpressed.

Merging Platoons? Big deal.

Infantry is 50 pts w/ Sgt? OK, no surprise there, but...

Plasma went to 15? So much for the Infantry cost "savings".

Veterans as 10-man Troops? Buh-bye Veterans, hello SWS!

35 pts per Ogryn +10 for the mandatory Bonehead? Awesome!!! NOT. In a Guard army, Ogryns are worth a maximum of 25 pts, unless they are S6 T5 W3 Monstrous Creatures with Fleet and Furious Charge... Ogryns are *NOT* worth more than a Chaos Terminator.

Chimera at 55? That's the rest of the Infantry cost savings.

Valks cost like Falcons, but cannot carry Ogryns, but can carry Elysian Sentinels? WTF? slowed. And Ogryns are punitively points expensive enough that they *should* be Valk-transportable. Still, the model is cool. But I don't think it's worth 115+ pts.

Vendetta seems like an awfully expensive Predator Annihilator...

Overall, only Infantry and Chimeras seem good. The rest is meh. Like SM.

**Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Valks cost like Falcons, but cannot carry Ogryns, but can carry Elysian Sentinels? WTF? slowed.

I think you'll find Valks can't carry Elysian Sentinels in the new Codex either. That's the domain of Imperial Armour.

**JohnHwangDD**

Oh, of course, even better!

**Platuan4th**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Chimera at 55? That's the rest of the Infantry cost savings.

As a Mech Guard player, that IS a savings. That's a 56 points per squad(50+55=105) savings over current costs for the same gear(60+10+6+70+10+5= 161), or 142 points off of the base platoon(not including any points decrease that may happen in the Command Squad). That's another squad per platoon for about the same or slightly more than what I'm currently paying for platoons.