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insaniak wrote:

Lord Poison wrote:as I said, none of my friends play these sort of games, so I would have no one to play it with
so it would have been a crappy investment on my part to get a board game, I would only get to play for a few months...

I'm confused... How are you playing it for a few months if nobody will play it with you in the first place?

in the GW store

So... if you're playing with people at the store, what's to stop you from continuing to play with those same people when the game is no longer supported in store?

Instead of looking at it as a game that is only viable for a couple of months because your friends don't like playing games, you could be looking at it as a couple of month in which you can make new friends who do like playing games...

ehhh-thats a long story I won't get into
point being, I am hopeful they will make this into a whole new game, but my gut tells me it will be a one shot release that no one will pay attention to (and I should just buy more flames of war-as that game, I have a few things for, and I truly like the look, gameplay and of course backstory)

cincydooley wrote:I'm just curious as to how you can even make this assertation. You know nothing about it. Nothing. If anything, you comment is simply ignorant and short sighted.

Flimflam! We know plenty. We know it's a naval game. We know it's set in the Warhammer universe. We know there will just be the one box release. We know the miniatures will not be easily adaptable for use with other GW games. All these are more than enough to base a purchasing decision on.

Only willful ignorance is any excuse for statements as boneheaded as yours.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Only willful ignorance is any excuse for statements as boneheaded as yours.

Willful ignorance also leads to people being suspended for ignoring Dakka's #1 rule. So how about everybody lays off the personal remarks.

augustus5 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote: I don't care about naval games, esp. when Spartan does them better.

Fixed that for you.

Quite an assertion considering we have seen neither the rules nor the models for "Dread Fleet." And considering that Spartan is perhaps the only prominent miniatures company that can match GW in bad rules and horrid editing.

To say nothing about their models that look as seaworthy as a brick and as aesthetically pleasing as a brick to the face. But hey, they're way cheaper!

CptJake wrote:Comparing a board game that has plenty of re-use value to a gummi bear, which is a consumable is pretty silly too.

The game is actually edible. Gummi Ships!

Ok.. so my ability at turning a analogy is not the best. Im glad i was able to amuse with my gummy bear reference.

as for Spartan Games. They are re-releasing all their miniatures this month, designed using computer sculpts. I have the ralgard fleet which already uses this technique and the sculpts are quite nice. Much more pleasing than a brick to the face. And i beg to differ. The rules are not nearly as badly written as some that GW have put forth. Not to mention the game designers actually respond to you on the forum when you have a question. And its way cheaper than GW.

In the end it will be interesting to come back and look this thread up to see how the rumors panned out and how all the conjecture over the success of the Dreadfleet resolves itself.

insaniak wrote:

Lord Poison wrote:so I was right? its a one shot thing GW will phase out after a few months and then the models will be utterly useless?

Yes, once GW stops selling a game it becomes illegal to play it, so your only recourse is to burn the models and pretend it never happened.

Isn't that how Games Workshop wants us to play?

Thing is though, being serious for a moment here, weren't there rumours and whispers that people have been 'discouraged' from playing Space Hulk in GW stores?

filbert wrote:Thing is though, being serious for a moment here, weren't there rumours and whispers that people have been 'discouraged' from playing Space Hulk in GW stores?

Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, BFG, Necromunda, Mordheim, etc.

Basically if its not on the shelfs then you can't play it in the shop... At least that is what some people are saying.

yeah,
Imaging buying a set of soccer shoes at sports direct than getting all pissy because they didn't arrang games of soccer for you... 'what's that I should find my own soccer team... but none of my friends play soccer!'

At what point did gamesworkshop run 'club houses'?
Make friends and get a table at home for feths sake!

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
Imaging buying a set of soccer shoes at sports direct than getting all pissy because they didn't arrang games of soccer for you... 'what's that I should find my own soccer team... but none of my friends play soccer!'

At what point did gamesworkshop run 'club houses'?
Make friends and get a table at home for feths sake!

Panic...

I do have a table at home and wouldn't play a game in a GW store if they paid me to. However, judging by the reactions on here, especially in the FLGS/GW thread that is ongoing in General Discussion, many people do choose to play solely in GW stores. The fact that they will be unable to play this new game in GW stores may well be a factor affecting purchase.

Lord Poison wrote:
as I said, none of my friends play these sort of games, so I would have no one to play it with
so it would have been a crappy investment on my part to get a board game, I would only get to play for a few months... if I wanted to have a game I'd only play for a few months, I'd just get a video game (snap)

Although the logic of the above post has some issues, as has been pointed out, concerns about finding people to play the game are legitimate. It is my belief that GW is king of the hill because lots of people have their games. Thus people assume that it is easier to find a 40k opponent than a Infinity opponent. By making an entirely new game, that is limited edition no less, there will be many fewer opponents.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Imaging buying a set of soccer shoes at sports direct than getting all pissy because they didn't arrang games of soccer for you... 'what's that I should find my own soccer team... but none of my friends play soccer!'

At what point did gamesworkshop run 'club houses'?
Make friends and get a table at home for feths sake!

Panic...

What?

You do realise that those stores already have tables set up and allow people to play WHFB, 40K and LoTR on them? They just don't allow any of their own specialist games... But I'm guessing that is just another example of "good business" by GW, right? Like the people that are saying that they are going to pre-order Dread Fleet "for sure" even though they know absolutely nothing about the game except that it has ships and is made by GW?

And you guys get ofended when people call you fanboys...

lord_blackfang wrote:

augustus5 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote: I don't care about naval games, esp. when Spartan does them better.

Fixed that for you.

Quite an assertion considering we have seen neither the rules nor the models for "Dread Fleet." And considering that Spartan is perhaps the only prominent miniatures company that can match GW in bad rules and horrid editing.

But we know that Dread Fleet will not be expandable, and while the rules for Spartan's games are not the best, the game is still young and supported, and will see rules updates as it ages.

I am willing to give GW the benefit of the doubt on this. I never liked either of the their main line games, but their Specialist line stuff has provided me with some of my favorite gaming memories. Necromunda, Man o' War, and Blood Bowl are three favorites in particular. The only total flop I can remember was Gorkamorka. I can't say I'll absolutely buy the game without any info at all, but I'll be watching keenly, and if it looks like fun, I will be picking it up...even though I've got loads of Infinity minis waiting to be painted!

This isn't really a game along the same lines as their other specialist games, since it is planned to not be expandable. The reason that games like BFG or Necromunda were so cool to me is because I could play very different fleets/gangs each time I played if I chose too. Dread Fleet might turn out to be a very good board game, like Space Hulk, which I enjoyed, but I can buy other great boardgames for around half of the rumored price of Dread Fleet, and a game like Space Hulk gave me models that translate well into 40k, and card terrain for use in other skirmish type games.

AlexHolker wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:There are so many irreverent posters criticising GW's marketing that News and Rumours is barely navigable,

It's not because News and Rumours requires the kind of news and rumours that GW is vigorously suppressing? And "irreverent"? GW isnt' the fething pope.

They have only themselves to blame if the only information that's out there (that it's a "fleet" based game that doesn't actually let you have a fleet, just a hodgepodge of assorted races' ships, and that it's a standalone, limited edition game with no room for expansion) does not work in their favour.

We don't have any information on the game, and that's that. GW isn't supressing information - they've specifically told us when it is that they're telling us about the product, which isn't even necessarily a game. They obviously want to make sure that when they tell us, we're listening, and it's pretty obvious that we will be because everyone I see in the real- and internet-wargaming crowds are talking about it. Everyone who says "I'm not interested in this" will reevaluate it tomorrow because they are going from having no information straight to having any information at all. If their brains function normally this will be automatic and should not be painful. Absolutely nothing is known except that it appears to involve pirates, who are 'wanted', and are quite possibly just cunning ninjas disguised as pirates. One is a Sartosan Vampire if ever I saw one. There's plenty to guess at if you can see past the red in your eyes.

Ugh... come on, guys. Don't make this thread get locked just to last a day until the game's out!

Also, I thought the game was released today in Aus? Any chance of pics/info?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

We don't have any information on the game, and that's that.

Go back to page one of this thread and read the OP. Like almost every other top secret release, there is quite a bit of information already available about this game.

I was going to say that- we do have a pretty good amount of rumors on this. Apparently, the pics were kept under lock and key, though... but we'll see them in a day and a half, anyway

At first i was not going to buy one.But now i am on the fence leaning towards buying one.Especially after my wife brought up a good point,with it being a one off GW game it will always hold some sort of value.She said buy it and if i do not like it,trade it off or resale it.If i like it make my own expansions and buy multiple kits from bits stores or used box sets.I am just curious to see if their is going to be boarding actions or just flat pound each other with ships.On the boarding action i hope they are not like the old Epic rules.One of my players in our group hopes it is the same scale as warmaster.So we a co- op the to games.

destroyerlord wrote:
Since LOTR came out they have only supported the big 3 and it sucks!

Epic, Space Hulk, Necromunda, BFG

Hero Quest, Warhammer Quest, Blood Bowl, Mighty Empires, Man'O'War, Mordheim

All have fallen by the way side because they are not the BIG 3 which IMHO is wrong because they are all good games and should all still be around because people still try to play them!

(sorry but I am an OLD git so I remember these old games)

I'm a fan of all those to; I've played 6 of the games on your list, but the sad reality is that LotR has been more financially successful than any of those other games. Even if that success were only a bubble it speaks to that games greater financial potential over any of our beloved specialist games. GW has become very risk adverse and has become a company content with supporting only franchise games. At this point GW is more likely to do a Halo or Gears of War miniature game then it is to restart and fully support any of these older games. GW's turned its back on its hertiage and legacy. Its a shame.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Imaging buying a set of soccer shoes at sports direct than getting all pissy because they didn't arrang games of soccer for you... 'what's that I should find my own soccer team... but none of my friends play soccer!'

Now imagine a Sports Store that sells soccer shoes, comes with a field where they encourage new customers to play. However, if you don't buy their specific brand of shoes you can't play. Every few years they alter the rules for their version of soccer to forbid prior versions of soccer shoes or handicap people who wear them. No alternate rules are permitted to be used on their field. Once in a while they also sell kickball equipment for a short window, but after that window you are forbidden from playing kickball on their property even if you bought all their equipment from them.

At what point did gamesworkshop run 'club houses'?

The moment they set up tables and began encouraging people to play in their stores.

Make friends and get a table at home for feths sake!

Most of us have plenty of friends, they simply aren't interested in miniatures. And many of us live in places where a table at home is unfeasible. I spent the last 3 years in a country (where GW maintains a presence, mind) where the vast majority of apartment dwellers simply do not have the space for a gaming table. Now I'm in the US, and my Apartment STILL does not have the space for a gaming table. Bully for you if you do have the space at home to game in, but don't attack the social quality of others just because they aren't able to share your lifestyle.

PhantomViper wrote:

filbert wrote:Thing is though, being serious for a moment here, weren't there rumours and whispers that people have been 'discouraged' from playing Space Hulk in GW stores?

Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, BFG, Necromunda, Mordheim, etc.

Basically if its not on the shelfs then you can't play it in the shop... At least that is what some people are saying.

It might depend on the individual store and how busy they are at the time. I don't play at my local GW but the guys there are often asking me to bring in some of my older models to show them. Hell, I had to wait around for an hour or so for my wife the other week and so spent about 20mins looking in the GW, and the guy was telling me that I should have brought in something to paint while I waited around. Hell, I don't ever buy anything at my local GW aside from the odd pot of paint but they're always very friendly to me. I think they have me pegged as someone who only buys old models, and I'm happy to go along with that since I'm not going to be a rude prick to them and tell them I buy all my newer stuff online. It's not their fault that the company chooses to gouge Aussies - they're just guys who are happy to be working - and working in a hobby they enjoy. More power to them!

Going back years, I remember that some people on Dakka would tell stories of how their local GW wouldn't allow figures with bases that weren't finished with green flock and rimmed in goblin green, while others (myself included) from different locales had very different experiences.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

JOHIRA wrote:

Panic wrote:yeah,
Imaging buying a set of soccer shoes at sports direct than getting all pissy because they didn't arrang games of soccer for you... 'what's that I should find my own soccer team... but none of my friends play soccer!'

Now imagine a Sports Store that sells soccer shoes, comes with a field where they encourage new customers to play. However, if you don't buy their specific brand of shoes you can't play. Every few years they alter the rules for their version of soccer to forbid prior versions of soccer shoes or handicap people who wear them. No alternate rules are permitted to be used on their field. Once in a while they also sell kickball equipment for a short window, but after that window you are forbidden from playing kickball on their property even if you bought all their equipment from them.

At what point did gamesworkshop run 'club houses'?

The moment they set up tables and began encouraging people to play in their stores.

Make friends and get a table at home for feths sake!

Most of us have plenty of friends, they simply aren't interested in miniatures. And many of us live in places where a table at home is unfeasible. I spent the last 3 years in a country (where GW maintains a presence, mind) where the vast majority of apartment dwellers simply do not have the space for a gaming table. Now I'm in the US, and my Apartment STILL does not have the space for a gaming table. Bully for you if you do have the space at home to game in, but don't attack the social quality of others just because they aren't able to share your lifestyle.

Heh, you've got me defending GW's practices here - well done!

As far as GW having "gaming clubs" - some actually do, but the majority of their stores are simply retail space that have a bit of space for their staff to run introductory games and somewhere for them to paint the instore armies. When that space isn't being used to demo someone new to the hobby or show someone else another game/new rules etc, then they may allow others to play. The business reasoning behind that is that for casuals and walk-ins, seeing people playing and enjoying a game draws them in and might cause someone to try the game out or buy a boxed set. It has potential to contribute to their bottom line, and so it's encouraged.
"What's that game? It looks cool! Can I buy it?" - Sure you can - right here!"
OOP models don't really hurt that since the variety of figures is so large. (in the past in some stores, OOP models weren't allowed.)

People playing OOP games however fails the key part of the dialogue above -
"What's that game? It looks cool! Can I buy it?" - Um.. no. It hasn't been sold for 2 years..."

Staff in GW stores are actually under a lot of pressure to maintain sales in their individual stores from corporate. From a customer's perspective - sure, it's all GW stuff whether it's secondhand, bought from overseas, or 22 years old. From their perspective, having people play Necromunda doesn't really help their in-store sales, especially if it's occupying a table that others might be using to play WFB/40k/LotR which can help drive those walk-in sales.

The soccer analogy doesn't work at all. Expecting to be able to play WarMachine in a GW store or proxy in Wargames Factory Greatcoat guys for your guardsmen and use them in a GW store would be as insulting as all hell. And I'm a guy with a large IG force made up from LOTS of different companies' figures and model kits. If I were to play in a GW though, I'd leave the Warzone ex-Trenchers at home.

If you don't have friends interested in miniatures, I'd suggest making some - not being snarky, but perhaps get some regular opponents in the local GW, and they might become your friend. Most areas have some kind of gaming group that meets with some kind of regularity, so maybe joining a wargames club would work for you. Hell, White Dwarf often has gaming club info in the back - see what's in your area and if there's nothing there - ask here on Dakka. I asked a question about basing Malifax figures here on Dakka only yesterday and a guy in my city offered to give me an intro game!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:
Also, I thought the game was released today in Aus? Any chance of pics/info?

That guy clearly got his dates wrong. It's on the 17th here as well, so tomorrow.

yeah,
Very well put Scipio. +1
People need accept that GW is a business first.

soooo Dread Fleet do we know yet if it's table top or board game?

Panic...

Panic wrote:People need accept that GW is a business first.

Tell the GW higher management that GW is a business, maybe they will start trying to raise sales and customer numbers

Panic wrote:yeah,
People need accept that GW is a business first.

Then GW needs to stop marketing itself as anything else...