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Zathras wrote:

DruidODurham wrote:It's probably the beards and all the extra bitz taking up the space.

No, no, no....the reason the Space Wolf transports have a lower passenger capacity is the space is taken up by the kegs of ale they take with them when they go into battle.

That, I can believe, Zathras !! I wonder if it's in the fluff somewhere !!

I now have the incentive and imagery to spend the time detailing the interiors of my transports !!! Maybe I'll even add spigots and tankards to the outside of them

reds8n wrote:I think you might find that he actually only gives away a KP if he is NOT killed.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this one. So, basically the Wolves get an automatic 1 KP advantage. It is a win/win situation for them. If I see a frothing, half-insane murderer charging towards my lines, what are my option? 1) Take it like a true Guardsman in CC and lose my unit ( KP for the enemy ) or 2) sacrifice firepower to eliminate him and still lose a KP. Is this sane? Of course not.

A-P wrote:

reds8n wrote:I think you might find that he actually only gives away a KP if he is NOT killed.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this one. So, basically the Wolves get an automatic 1 KP advantage. It is a win/win situation for them. If I see a frothing, half-insane murderer charging towards my lines, what are my option? 1) Take it like a true Guardsman in CC and lose my unit ( KP for the enemy ) or 2) sacrifice firepower to eliminate him and still lose a KP. Is this sane? Of course not.

well, its actually an automatic Disadvantage untill you kill them

lets say I have 3 of them, if the game were to end on turn 1 before anything was killed, you would win by 3 KPs.

you can play keep-away, and get free KPs for not killing these models (most desirable for you)
you can shoot them to death, and not take any other loses, and kill a point-sink unit (neutral for you, I spend points and waste a slot to soak fire)
you can let them get to you and fight you in close combat (least desirable, you might give me killpoints, or you might take away your own killpoints)

# Runepriests: new magic no gates, but storm is 24” - gives 5+ cover and turns zone of usage into difficult terrain for skimmers etc. Cancels psychic powers of enemy on 4+.

Huh.

So, uhm, the Kustom Force Field suddenly doesn't feel all that impressive LOL. Am I reading this right? 24" version of the KFF with extra benefits? Is the psychic power cancelling part of the "spell", or part of the models base rules (ie like runes of warding)?

Njal casts 3 powers per turn, cancels all psychic attacks on 3+ within 24". You don’t roll for ld, you just plainly cancel them. Not to mention his passive power chart that has one of them as -1Bs for all models in 24".

Soooo, does this mean he can cancel things like Fortune? Or only things affecting him? What about conceal, embolden or Veil of Tears?

If all we hear is true,

Its back to the good old days, when each new codex was designed to be overpowering, until it got remedied by the subsequent NEWER and BETTER codex!

Obviously they have noted that in the heyday of that culture (2004) sales were better then now, so they have connected the dots, and balance is out the window!

If rumours are true, of course we can see how all this plays out in the ever-joy of Army Builder.

In good min-Max tradition you team up 4 overpowered heroes who gets 50 attacks per turn with the biggest squads of the cheapest troops possible, who can get character/saga boosted to their own quadrillion attacks on the charge. this is rhino rush, cos they can't drop pod and charge.

The "one attack per enemy in base contact" is obviously Phil Kelly designing around his own orc codex, and the sure way to rape the dreaded Orc Nob squad, since marines always get the initiative.

Indeed here is the perfect Orc Horde crushing army.

I guess greenskins were a little uber the space marines, and we can't have our best selling army beaten in serious competitive game play can we.

So the codex design (as we hear it) is clearly directed at the larger culture and stamping greenskins back in place!

Likewise all the gunk about monster slaying and instant killing is obviously directed at taming that other uber army: nidzilla....

So new wolves will clock up sales a plenty because they will have good results on tables and become the pest removers to get those irritating bugs and green skins in line.

It will sell some green models as well as orc heads retool their list to cope with the new bully on the block.

The Joker character blowing up and taking a whole pieve of the map and everyone with him, is just a God-aweful rule, that nurfs Abaddon, Hive Tyrants and other honestly paid for 200-300 point units with some "tricksy" 70 point unit that can sneak off from back board, and you can't shoot him, cos you can't see him...hehehe.

Didn't there used to be evesor assassins that did that just fine. They are (were) servants of the imperium after all..? Why do they need some long haired; drug snorting drag queen in power armour, "sneaking" (in POWER ARMOUR) around?

It looks like new wolves may also inspire some new Chaos, Daemon and Eldar lists, as all these crews have builds that can cope. Beautiful thing is that armies will need to be retooled to face the new menance.

Many phoenix lords will be purchased! Many fire dragons! Dark Eldar will be eagerly needed and desired!

And it will boost Tau, who have their mobile mech/suit answers to Rhino rush and drop pods.

All in all, the new set of rules look damn brilliant in REFRESHING the meta game, which is great for all of us in terms of rebuilding our lists.

And is great for GW in turning over product.

And that actually is great, because fresh fun is better fun.

And a more profitable Gw won't hurt us at all!

OTG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S.

I think its real kudos to Phil Kelly! You have to appreciate that while we are annoyed, the power of annoyance is rarely as strong as our hobby making impulse. The temptation to make the new army, or the necessity of responding to it, either way its a big win not only for sales, but for our interest.

Precisely what the business id about!

OTG>

Hey guys, just wondering when the codex and models will be coming out? Are we waiting until october?
I.E. Can I get some new space puppies for my sept. 30th b-day?

Now I know why Marbo got into the IG codex: Out of pity, because the Pups can do what he can, except a hundred times better. The same with Sanctioned Psykers, who are utterly raped by Rune Priests in every conceivable way*.

* Sure, the IG didn't need a psychic powerhouse, but neither do the Wolves. Frying people's brains with bolts of lightning isn't an integral part of the space viking schtick.

Orc Town Grot wrote:
The "one attack per enemy in base contact" is obviously Phil Kelly designing around his own orc codex, and the sure way to rape the dreaded Orc Nob squad, since marines always get the initiative.

Indeed here is the perfect Orc Horde crushing army.

I guess greenskins were a little uber the space marines, and we can't have our best selling army beaten in serious competitive game play can we.

So the codex design (as we hear it) is clearly directed at the larger culture and stamping greenskins back in place!

Likewise all the gunk about monster slaying and instant killing is obviously directed at taming that other uber army: nidzilla....

So new wolves will clock up sales a plenty because they will have good results on tables and become the pest removers to get those irritating bugs and green skins in line.

The scary thing is that this actually makes sense. And not even in the weird Paranoia ( "the Computer is your friend" ) kind of style.

Demogerg wrote:

A-P wrote:

reds8n wrote:I think you might find that he actually only gives away a KP if he is NOT killed.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this one. So, basically the Wolves get an automatic 1 KP advantage. It is a win/win situation for them. If I see a frothing, half-insane murderer charging towards my lines, what are my option? 1) Take it like a true Guardsman in CC and lose my unit ( KP for the enemy ) or 2) sacrifice firepower to eliminate him and still lose a KP. Is this sane? Of course not.

well, its actually an automatic Disadvantage untill you kill them

lets say I have 3 of them, if the game were to end on turn 1 before anything was killed, you would win by 3 KPs.

you can play keep-away, and get free KPs for not killing these models (most desirable for you)
you can shoot them to death, and not take any other loses, and kill a point-sink unit (neutral for you, I spend points and waste a slot to soak fire)
you can let them get to you and fight you in close combat (least desirable, you might give me killpoints, or you might take away your own killpoints)

If they don't die then they give up KP. If they do die then I lost some 200 points (bikes + wargear+figs) worth of suicide heroes, which in my mind seams really fragile even with FNP. IMO it is just 2 wounds so they are pretty much bolter fodder...I mean, what else are troops suppose to shoot at? The concept had pontential if they had grouped them into units where they could naturally abuse wound allocation. Off on thier own...Mehh. Plus, their MC prey will often have higher initiate, which means they will get pawned in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orc Town Grot wrote:Likewise all the gunk about monster slaying and instant killing is obviously directed at taming that other uber army: nidzilla....

...

Maybe HMBC is right...maybe GW still believes Nidzilla is ZOMG powerfull and that Mech doesn't pawn Tyranids in general. Well if Nids thought they had it rough a few months back, wait till SW comes out...because, lets face it, having one Tyanid player win one major Tournement is simply one too many . Honestly, its like chinese water torture .

wyomingfox wrote:
Maybe HMBC is right...maybe GW still believes Nidzilla is ZOMG powerfull and that Mech doesn't pawn Tyranids in general. Well if Nids thought they had it rough a few months back, wait till SW comes out...because, lets face it, having one Tyanid player win one major Tournement is simply one too many . Honestly, its like chinese water torture .

Or maybe Phil Kelly knows what coming up in the next Codex... which rumor has it, is Tyranids. After all our complaining that any given codex is nerfed by any subsequent codex, maybe they are actually trying to make sure Space Wolves having something in store for the next army released.

Myrthe wrote:

Zathras wrote:

DruidODurham wrote:It's probably the beards and all the extra bitz taking up the space.

No, no, no....the reason the Space Wolf transports have a lower passenger capacity is the space is taken up by the kegs of ale they take with them when they go into battle.

That, I can believe, Zathras !! I wonder if it's in the fluff somewhere !!

I now have the incentive and imagery to spend the time detailing the interiors of my transports !!! Maybe I'll even add spigots and tankards to the outside of them

Well, if you read the Space Wolf novels Haegr, the ogryn sized space marine, was known to carry a supply of ale with him where ever he went. So I wouldn't put it past the Wolves to have a supply of ale with them when they go on campaigns.

As maddening as the inconsistency is, the transport capacities are probably a game-balance issue. This way you can't drop-pod in a GH squad with 2 meltas and a Wolf Guard leader with all his kit. You get either the extra special, or the Wolf Guard.

ubermosher wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:
Maybe HMBC is right...maybe GW still believes Nidzilla is ZOMG powerfull and that Mech doesn't pawn Tyranids in general. Well if Nids thought they had it rough a few months back, wait till SW comes out...because, lets face it, having one Tyanid player win one major Tournement is simply one too many . Honestly, its like chinese water torture .

Or maybe Phil Kelly knows what coming up in the next Codex... which rumor has it, is Tyranids. After all our complaining that any given codex is nerfed by any subsequent codex, maybe they are actually trying to make sure Space Wolves having something in store for the next army released.

Yeah, maybe, just maybe the 'nid codex will offer something to counter njal or whatnot. SW's sound expensive as hell. Go ahead and spend 1k+ pts on HQ, you will get owned hardcore.

Lol 1000 point HQ...you high?

I think he means 1000pts for 4 HQs

No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

tell that to the Daemons 'dex.

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

I will bring 4 HQ.
I will win tourneys too.

I'm chuckling at this news.
I love how Grey Hunters lost Combat Tactics and Combat Squads for Acute Senses, Counter Attack and extra CC weapon and the ability to take two specials (which is waaaay better than special+heavy for an assualt unit) and...went down a point compared to codex marines.
Brilliant! Absolutely stellar.
I look forward to playing a few games against the Mary Sue Marines and seeing what the story is.

Demogerg wrote:

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

I will bring 4 HQ.
I will win tourneys too.

Now, now, no bragging till after you have the codex AND trophies in hand

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

Ludicrous...or awesome beyond belief???

dienekes96 wrote:

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

Ludicrous...or awesome beyond belief???

Awesome and a great way to keep your model count down. That is, IF an Astartes Horde is not your thing. Get as many SW Psykers with that "kill all the clumsy ones" psychic power backed by tooled up Lords. Then fill the rest of the roster with young puppies eager for glory and your set to go.

You need two troop choices. WG are 3-10. If you run Logan, then that is 6 WG (tooled up) required, and add Arjac (for a chunk over 150 points). Buy Njal in TDA. Then another WL in TDA, and round out the total with additional WG in TDA.

I bet you can get a 1750 "army" in under 15 models. You'll get creamed, but man it'll be a bloodbath in CC.

dienekes96 wrote:I bet you can get a 1750 "army" in under 15 models. You'll get creamed, but man it'll be a bloodbath in CC.

The people who play Deathwing/Grey knights should rejoice! You finally get to outnumber someone .

Da Boss wrote:I'm chuckling at this news.
I love how Grey Hunters lost Combat Tactics and Combat Squads for Acute Senses, Counter Attack and extra CC weapon and the ability to take two specials (which is waaaay better than special+heavy for an assualt unit) and...went down a point compared to codex marines.
Brilliant! Absolutely stellar.
I look forward to playing a few games against the Mary Sue Marines and seeing what the story is.

I've managed to bring down previous editions of the wolves with my tac marine gunline, but I'm not so sure I'll be able to maintain that given the sheer cost effectiveness of their basic troop now.

Shuma, i think i may start to use that 3rd HS space in my BA now
Either another baal or a vindi lol.

I think a form of grey horde will be a viable option once the dex hits stores.

A-P wrote:

dienekes96 wrote:

SgtDavi wrote:No one is saying take 4 HQs, in fact thats rather ludicrous.

Ludicrous...or awesome beyond belief???

Awesome and a great way to keep your model count down. That is, IF an Astartes Horde is not your thing. Get as many SW Psykers with that "kill all the clumsy ones" psychic power backed by tooled up Lords. Then fill the rest of the roster with young puppies eager for glory and your set to go.

You can't duplicate characters in the slots I believe. I don't know if this means you can have 2 RP's, both with the ghost wolf power 1 with a plasma pistol 1 with a storm shielf or if it forbids 2 RP's a slot.

The power isn't all that uber guys.

1. You have to pass the test.
2. Only models under the line are affected. Good for sniping powerful characters, naff for whittling down squads since only 1 or 2 people per squad will be hit.
3. It isn't automatic death but based on an init test. That means rolling equal or under the model's initiative. Most IC's which are the characters you want to snipe will be init 5 (and isn't abaddon 6? so auto pass there) and so generally safe from the power. Most other things in the game have a 50% chance of surviving. Don't get me wrong it seems like a useful power but not the uber power people have claimed it is. Carnifexes are screwed though.
4. I obviously don't have the wording right here but I believe it specifies models, not enemy models. So it will take some degree of skill to avoid killing your own troops. Not really an option for space wolves.

wyomingfox wrote:Maybe HMBC is right...maybe GW still believes Nidzilla is ZOMG powerfull and that Mech doesn't pawn Tyranids in general.

Of course I am. And of course they do. There's always a lag with GW when it comes to 'balancing' things, and they're usually an edition behind when it comes to fixing problems (eg. reduce Assault Cannons to 1-in-5 in Terminator Squads and up their points after nerfing Rending in 5th). Come 6th Ed, something will happen that will make Assault Terminators w/Storm Shield nigh on useless, but GW will still over-cost them or significantly reduce their abilities to 'balance' them with 5th Ed.

It comes form the idea that GW designs all their Codices in a vacuum, with no real effort to playtest or do comparisons between units both inside the same Codex (how else do you explain Vets vs Storm Troopers?) and with any external Codices (how else do you explain Ogryn vs Grey Knight Terminators - or any of the 3-4 different versions of the Land Raider Crusader we now have).

'Nidzilla are the premiere Tyranid army (in the previous edition), and are storming through the tournament scene (in the previous edition). They are unstoppable (in the previous edition) and if something isn't done to combat the power they have (in the previous edition) then they'll go on to dominate every army that comes out (in the previous edition). So we'll make Space Wolves ultra-good against 'Nidzilla. That will really put those (previous edition) Tyranid armies in their place!

I 'spose the good side of this is that 'Nids are next, and horde 'Nids will be the new Power Build I suspect, so the problem will go away (kinda - GW will still overbalance 'Nidzilla in the new Codex even thought they don't need to).

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
You can't duplicate characters in the slots I believe. I don't know if this means you can have 2 RP's, both with the ghost wolf power 1 with a plasma pistol 1 with a storm shielf or if it forbids 2 RP's a slot.

The power isn't all that uber guys.

We should get confirmation soon. Little agents are at work all over the globe verifying information. Besides the two RP`s was just an example.

But on the power. It does have limits ( Psychic test, range, Initiative test ) but it is still scary. Not because it can kill big monsters. Not because it has a 50% chance of killing my I3 Guardsmen. But because it apparently has that very rare and coveted ability of being able to single out specific targets. An Ork Nob with a Klaw coming towards your tank? Aim the line at the Nob and laugh all the way to the bank.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
4. I obviously don't have the wording right here but I believe it specifies models, not enemy models. So it will take some degree of skill to avoid killing your own troops. Not really an option for space wolves.

I don't think you need to worry about hitting the rest of your army. Just keep both of them behind your psyker.