Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

sennacherib wrote:i really hope that they dont use the same planned obselesnce tactic that they used with nids. If they do, all the good old standby units will suck and they will be replaced by something that is way cooler. Rush out and buy the new COOL stuff kiddies. Its got new rules and it works twice as well as all that other stuff you bought from us way back when.

Luckily Chaos doesn't currently have good standby units.

Legion Terminators will be glorious. I really hope Word Bearers have some sort of thing to let you take more terminators, since termintors are all over the place in the dark creed novels...

Red Corsair wrote:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:OMG... The Horus Heresy artbook was pure deranged fun. I'm glad they're taking design cues from it.

Can you post a link or drop some titles for some of this literature/graphic novels so I can look into picking them up?

-RC

http://www.amazon.com/Horus-Heresy-Collected-Visions/dp/1844164241#_

Bought it as a birthday present for a friend, three or four years ago. In the vein of those old 'Terran Trade Authority' books, it's a collection of art (some old, some new), short stories and background info on the HH. Worth giving it a read.

Lord_Blackfang: You wouldn't call Lash Prince, Oblits and Plague Marines the standbys?
They seem to be the most popular whenever I see chaos being played, though the Warptime prince gets some play too as mechanised lists are so common.

I wonder how the Legion mechanics are going to work as mention in Kroothawk’s recent post.

I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character however there’s always the possibility that it might be more complicated than that (given that World Eaters and Night Lords are restricted to 1 HS slot).

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

lord_blackfang wrote:

tarnish wrote:dont really get it that warsmiths makes so many people drool... are they that amazing? i mean, wouldent it be more interesting if there where simply more options for the hq in general or is a servo harness that essential? to me, it lacks creativity to simply want "dark tech marines" and calling it chaos-y.

That's a good point. For all the complaints that the current CSM are just loyalists with spikes, there sure is a lot of calls for Spiky Techmarines and Spiky Chaplains (Dark Apostles)

The Word Bearers invented Chaplains and Malcadore started the tradition to the other Legions after the Council of Nikaea. Dark Apostles and Warsmiths have always been two big aspects that define both of these Legions, and the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors deserve them just as if not more than the five Loyalist codices. Maybe giving them some more Chaotic special rules will make them differ from being 'spiky Chaplians and Techmarines'.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

Agreed. If they halfass it by making it the followers of Typhus, Kharn, Ahriman and Lucius, they might as well not bother. It's stupid and doesn't represent a legion, it represents that particular characters warband.

However, considering ghost21's rumour said there would be addition special characters as well as the current characters in the fluff, I'd say single, individual characters won't be the basis for legion selection.

ghost21 wrote:Though each legion will get something unique to them, from force organization to individual units to HQs, for example Night Lords and World Eaters can only have 1 heavy support but get other boni.

This was one of the factors that led to the balance issues in the 3.5 codex that GW wanted to avoid with the 4th ed codex; I just can't see them bringing it back.

Deathly Angel wrote:

ghost21 wrote:Though each legion will get something unique to them, from force organization to individual units to HQs, for example Night Lords and World Eaters can only have 1 heavy support but get other boni.

This was one of the factors that led to the balance issues in the 3.5 codex that GW wanted to avoid with the 4th ed codex; I just can't see them bringing it back.

It didn't help that the FA choices in that book were *awful* so the one army that got to take extra FA never used it and the one that traded 2 FA for an extra HS slot and got to take HS units out of other books didn't care one whiff

I'm thinking 95% of the "unique" things will come in the form of special weapon options or playing with units force org allocation (making x troops instead of fast for example). I don't see GW actually modifying force organization chart structures again. In any case, its far simpler to allow an Iron Warriors army to say... take a single defiler as a Troops choice per Warsmith taken than it does to say "If your army is lead by a Warsmith then it gains +1 Heavy Support slots)"

Honestly, I wouldn't get too caught up the rules minutae of dubious rumours for a book that is allegedly 2-3 releases away.

-Loki- wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

Agreed. If they halfass it by making it the followers of Typhus, Kharn, Ahriman and Lucius, they might as well not bother. It's stupid and doesn't represent a legion, it represents that particular characters warband.

However, considering ghost21's rumour said there would be addition special characters as well as the current characters in the fluff, I'd say single, individual characters won't be the basis for legion selection.

What makes it more amusing is the fact that of those characters three of them are sort of 'exiles' from their respective Legions - Typhus blatantly rebelled against Mortarion and took off on his own, Kharn is pretty much responsible to ripping his Legion apart, Ahriman is responsible for making his legion into souless automatons.....

I shouldn't imagine they'd have the same sort of forces as a Legion force.

I don't post much or ask for much but PLEASE provide with any Thousand Son info you can =).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. They did so with Space Marines and Eldar.
Then again, Orks and Marines could field different units as troops by selecting a regular HQ. Honestly, I could see both happening.

There's nothing stopping GW from just rewriting the Fluff for Ahriman and Typhus though.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. They did so with Space Marines and Eldar.
Then again, Orks and Marines could field different units as troops by selecting a regular HQ. Honestly, I could see both happening.

There's nothing stopping GW from just rewriting the Fluff for Ahriman and Typhus though.

We better not give them ideas... They're perfectly capable of it.

Anung Un Rama wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

candy.man wrote:I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character...

It better fething not be.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. They did so with Space Marines and Eldar.
Then again, Orks and Marines could field different units as troops by selecting a regular HQ. Honestly, I could see both happening.

There's nothing stopping GW from just rewriting the Fluff for Ahriman and Typhus though.

The 5th edition method of modifying your army is most certainly via a special character that plays musical chairs with the force org slots of units. If the rumors that came out a few months back about 6th edition have any truth, who knows if that will still stay true for future codicies. Those posted rumors where huge changes more akin to 2nd-3rd edition changeover than the small, incremental changes of 3rd-4th-5th.

I'm not familiar with the Necron codex but does it have characters that change army list force org slots for units? Supposedly, its designed with the next edition in mind.

warboss wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Necron codex but does it have characters that change army list force org slots for units? Supposedly, its designed with the next edition in mind.

it does not. not a single option like it.

I am really thrilled for a Chaos legion release. Do you think that GW will keep the slightly outdated plastic models of the current range, or will the entire range of infantry get revamped with a whole new feel to it? They probably won't touch the vehicles as much, and perhaps just add a couple of new ones, but it is mostly the infantry I am worried for.
I am thinking of getting a single squad of finecast PM's and perhaps a squad of regular CSM and the Death Guard Forge World conversion kit for them, but I don't know if they still would be viable with thoose weapon options and all in the new codex and even in the next edition of 40K. It might be quite a risk buying (perhaps) outdated models to start an army that first will be relased in a year or so, but it would be nice to get a head start before the codex hits.

I doubt that the current plastics will be changed, only the oldest and most outdated kits usually get replaced (think old DE) Chances are that you will just be able to spruce up the infantry kits with all the new stuff.

Bonde wrote:I am really thrilled for a Chaos legion release. Do you think that GW will keep the slightly outdated plastic models of the current range, or will the entire range of infantry get revamped with a whole new feel to it? They probably won't touch the vehicles as much, and perhaps just add a couple of new ones, but it is mostly the infantry I am worried for.
I am thinking of getting a single squad of finecast PM's and perhaps a squad of regular CSM and the Death Guard Forge World conversion kit for them, but I don't know if they still would be viable with thoose weapon options and all in the new codex and even in the next edition of 40K. It might be quite a risk buying (perhaps) outdated models to start an army that first will be relased in a year or so, but it would be nice to get a head start before the codex hits.

It's never a risk if you like the outdated models. If you like them, buy them now before price goes up. If you don't like them, don't worry about getting em now. I have a feeling plague marines will be weaker in the next book cuz everyone has em. Expect thousand sons and emperors children to become awesome since they have hybrid kits and GW will probably make new plastic kits for them with awesome rules to sell said kits.

I think as it is there are enough kits that need plastic versions, GW would see it as more worthwhile to produce plastic kits for those units, before replacing existing plastic kits.

candy.man wrote:I wonder how the Legion mechanics are going to work as mention in Kroothawk’s recent post.

I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character however there’s always the possibility that it might be more complicated than that (given that World Eaters and Night Lords are restricted to 1 HS slot).

It can't be. Warbands are often amalgams of different legions, so unless they alter their fluff, there has to be the option for at least two legions.

Deathly Angel wrote:

Harriticus wrote:

-Alpha Legion: No idea. Arkos the Faithless is the only Alpha Legion character I know of, and he's in Imperial Armour and was captured by the Dark Angels.

Alpha Legion: No Special Character

Any Chaos Lord or Chaos Sorceror may take an Icon of the Alpha Legion for +??pts

Icon of the Alpha Legion: Confers the I am Alpharius special rule.

I am Alpharius: In the assualt phase, the Independant Character cannot be singled out in combat from any squad he is attached to.

Alpharius

Costs no points. Has no statline. Has no model. Counts as your HQ choice. All CSM, Chosen, Terminator, Biker and Havoc squads without an Icon/Mark gain the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule. The end.

aka_mythos wrote:I think as it is there are enough kits that need plastic versions, GW would see it as more worthwhile to produce plastic kits for those units, before replacing existing plastic kits.

Ah, I feel quite a bit more confident now. I really want to start a pure army dedicated to Nurgle, so I will probably get both a finecast and a regular CSM squad + FW conversion kit so I will have a lot of variety in my troops section when the new codex hits. I have the Siege of Vraks trillogy already for inspiration, so I should just get painting and not worry about weapon options. I just don't hope that PM's take a massive hit in usefulness just because a lot of peope have used them in this edition. I can live with them just being average; I don't want the new flavour of th month power army, which I don't know if chaos legions will be or not, I just want it to follow the fluff better and not be power armoured space pirates.

Ghost made a small clarification on his previous statement below:

ghost21 wrote:Though each legion will get something unique to them, from force organization to individual units to HQs, for example Night Lords and World Eaters can only have 1 heavy support but get other boni.

In reference to the statement above, Ghost later stated:

ghost21 wrote:basically as i understand if we want more than 1 havoc squad they have to trade something for it(so not limits on heavy support per say)

as i understand they can take khornate engines without restriction

sorry to cause confusiuon

What I want in terms of a replacement for the plastic CSMs is a kit that looks less like spiky mk7 power armour, and more like self-modified armour of earlier patterns. It'd be slightly more "realistic".

With the mention that many characters will make a comeback I can't help to wish for the return of Doomrider.
You don't make more batgak insane than Doomrider.

Commander Cain wrote:I doubt that the current plastics will be changed, only the oldest and most outdated kits usually get replaced (think old DE) Chances are that you will just be able to spruce up the infantry kits with all the new stuff.

DE didn't keep a single sculpt, so that's not a totally accurate analogy. I can see a new kit of one of the cult troops happening rather than an upgrade sprue. When was the last time they released a specific upgrade sprue? Templars? If anything it would be a new kit altogether. Logic indicates there will be a new plastic Chaos Dreadnought, but considering how we've been using the current metal one for almost 20 years, I almost feel like not giving Chaos players one is a running joke with GW. The only plastic kit it makes sense to replace are Chaos bikers.

Durza wrote:

candy.man wrote:I wonder how the Legion mechanics are going to work as mention in Kroothawk’s recent post.

I’m going to assume that “picking a legion” is achieved via selecting a special character however there’s always the possibility that it might be more complicated than that (given that World Eaters and Night Lords are restricted to 1 HS slot).

It can't be. Warbands are often amalgams of different legions, so unless they alter their fluff, there has to be the option for at least two legions.

Simple, Legion Rules. Every HQ choice must pick one Legion Rule, this gives access to special upgrades and units. Taking two HQ's unlocks further bonuses, or taking two different ones will restrict access to the better bonuses. The Special Characters come with a Legion Rule built-in, so Kharn would have the World Eaters one, Lucius would have the Emperor's Children one etc.