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ph34r wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

ph34r wrote:
The new codex is $29 for 96 pages.
The old codex was $20 for 66 pages.

This is literally EXACTLY THE SAME PER PAGE. 3.3 page per dollar.
If anything, rejoice as the book has had no relative inflation.

But considering that the codex is written by Matt Ward, not much of it will even be worth reading anyway.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

The day I go into a bookstore and start counting pages per dollar as a way of trying to assign quality or value for money is the day I stop buying books. I don't do it with paperbacks from Waterstones so why should that apply to GW rule books? They are overpriced as it is - trying to justify that price by working out whether the price has increased from one edition to the next is simply clutching at straws.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:Seriously pumped for this, now i can finally bust out the AdMech properly!!

Lots of lovely skitarii!

I also think the dreadknights awesome, love the exo-suit vibe even though hes wearing TDA. Finally i can have easy Mars pattern Knight Titans!!

(Will be putting the SR servitor canopy as a cockpit though )

I would enjoy reading a thread/blog about your adventure in this.

I have a tonne of bits and kits for this exact same thing... if you need anything PM me.

Alphacerberus wrote:there the jump pack grey knights i think they are like relays so they can Warp "shunt"

Oh dear. Good idea, poor execution.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:In AUS he will be $33, and our dollar is stronger than yours.

Why. Does. It. Matter.

Any smart Aussie should have stopped ordering from GWOZ years ago.

We get it. You order online. Many of us do. The point was that a Canadian was complaining about his local RRP.

I think the Dreadknight looks like the best walker GW has ever done. They are finally inserting design elements that don't take from the worst parts of the late industrial revolution.

I do agree that the baby carrier aspect of the DK is pretty stupid looking, but when I look at the photos, my eye is automatically blotting that out and coming up with conversion ideas.

Also the armatures do harken back to the Matrix 3 and Avatar (two movies I can never, ever unsee), but they also look like they're very easily kept off the model to make an even more sleek looking, dynamic model.

When you see DK's converted to not look so goofy next month, you'll see how awesome looking that model is.

My GK army will have three of them. The question is, do I come up with the same conversion to de-baby carrier the models, or make each one unique...

The poses on the GKT's and the PAGK's are simply awesome. They're flexible and dynamic, giving all kinds of options to people. You could even do an arced leaping two handed GK a la 300. I'll agree on $35 being way too expensive for five plastic marines, but those kits will be worth buying for the weapon options alone. Where I think they'll really shine is truly dynamic, unique posed GKT's. They are also light years ahead of the crappy poses the metal PAGK's had.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Alphacerberus wrote:there the jump pack grey knights i think they are like relays so they can Warp "shunt"

Oh dear. Good idea, poor execution.

should have done some DoW style teleporters with the blue crevice and center back plate would have made them look great and could have been cheap as they would just cover the standard backpack pieces

I'll see if I can get a picture of castellan crowe and the jokaero later today for folks.

Not sure why they somehow missed the boat this time? although saying that the pre-order sheet also included all the normal space marine vehicles that GK can take, as well as the old metals and special characters, though interestingly, none of the inquisition stuff was on the list bar the assassins.

I'm not exactly pleased - but more vindicated in knowing it's not just me that thinks the PAGK look off, I thought I was being too critical. I think of lot of it is down to the poor posing on the models, it doesn't help they seem to be very top heavy and lots of open spaces on the legs.

The Termi Apothecary stills looks brilliant to me. Not sure if I mentioned that already

I'm really hoping we get some plastic models for Inquisitorial Henchmen or proper Pure Inquisition armies are going to be reeeally expensive to field... expecially to see how they do Jokaero.

I think the Dreadknight looks like the best walker GW has ever done.

This is debatable. I'm curious to see whether they can be played competitively or not.

I must say all the infantry looks awesome, they seem to have gone for a slightly cleaner, sleaker look for everything and it looks really good. They at least look a bit different from every other Marine around. Looks like they are going to be a nightmare to paint well though.

Tbh I think the main frame of the Dreadknight looks pretty good, it follows the same clean, sleak look as the rest of the infantry and generally pulls of the whole 'giant Space Marine' look pretty well. The problem is it all falls to pieces as soon as you look at the the way the pilot is attached to the front. He looks too much like he has just been strapped in at the last minute rather than being a part of a properly designed battle suit which protects him and serves as an extension of his body (which is what it looks like they were going for). If there is an easy way to modify it to look more natural then I suspect its going to be very popular.

Ok... so... from the top. My thoughts. Good/Bad/Ugly.

Power Armour Grey Knights

I'm making the assumption that the guys in full Silver are the Strike Squad members (and by extension the Purgation Squad as well), and that the white-helmeted GK's are the Purifiers. The dudes with the Sci-Fi Radios are the Interceptor Squads, obviously.

The Good:

Great kit. Love the options.

Glad to see the Falchions.

Details are good and they don't differ too much from the current models.

White helmets make the Purifiers look fething awesome.

Psilencer looks pretty cool, and I'm glad I know what it looks like finally.

The Incinerator looks cool.

I like the Teleport Backpacks. They're pretty nifty.

Lots of bits. Very nice.

The Nemesis Deamonhammer is wicked!

Two Psycannons per box is a nice touch, but it's also sad because...

The Bad:

... the new Psycannon looks like ass. Terrible redesign, doesn't look nearly as chunky, and the ammo box is goofy.

Two Halberds per box? Are you kidding me? Unless they're suddenly limited to two per squad (which is gonna piss a LOT of existing players off) then that's just criminal.

There's something that's... 'off' about their heads. I think it's the paint job though rather than anything technical.

Only 7 heads. That's kinda pathetic.

Why are they carrying daemon heads? How does that even make sense?

The Ugly:

The paint job and posing on some makes them look out of proportion and far too cartoony.

The eyes don't help either - and that's probably what's making their heads look 'off'.

The magazines on the Storm Bolters. They look ridiculous. Great big exaggerated over-sized clips sticking out the side is by far the worst design decision about this entire kit. They're horrible!

Grey Knight Terminators:

The Good:

Really love these guys!

Loads of great weapons options!

Falchions for the whole unit.

Halberds for the whole unit.

A really great looking Daemonhammer.

The Warding Stave is nice... if a little Eisenhorn-y...

The Apothecary bits are great, and will be found in other armies that can still take Apothecary Termies, like Deathwing (I think)

The Squad leader is great.

The Incinerator and Psilencer both look beefy!

The banner is cool.

Termies don't looks stupid with two swords, which I was afraid of.

Bits galore!

As I said, love this kit

The Bad:

Psycannon looks better here, but still terrible. Don't know why they redesigned it that way. It looks really stupid.

Again with the holding Daemon-heads? What gives?

The Storm Bolter magazines look better here. Not 100% on board with the concept, but whatever. They're not super-sized like the PAGK, so it's mostly ok.

I really can't tell what's meant to be a Paladin and what's not... they're not distinct enough in my mind.

The Ugly:

Again, the heads. Someone made the comment that they looked like someone had made heads out of regular Termy heads, and they're right. They've got big chunky face grills/cheeks and it really stands out compared to the other ones. That said, I actually think it makes them look more aggressive. It's ugly, but it's good ugly!

The banner says 'Nemesis'. Yeah, we get it, Nemesis in this book is like Blood in the Blood Angel book. Enough already!

Draigo:

The Good:

He looks great. Wonderful detail. Very impressed.

With his helmet he looks amazing.

The Bad:

Without his helmet he doesn't look so hot.

The Ugly:

His fluff. Someone take Ward's computer away now!!!

And finally... *sigh*

Nemesis Dreadknight:

The Good:

Umm...

Uhh...

Well...

Err...

This is hard man!

Ok, that sword is just boss. I love the sword. I'm totally down with the whole 'sword' thing. Yeah.

What else... what else...Oh! The Heavy Psycannon and the Gatling Psilencer and especially the Heavy Incinerator, they're really great!

And... uhh...

There's gotto be something...

the pilot looks better with the helmet... but better in the same way that hammering one nail through your hand is better than hammering two nails through your hand, so maybe that shouldn't be under 'good'.

The Bad:

It's too tall.

It's too spindy.

The legs looks stupid.

The wording on the legs is daft.

The pilot looks absurd, just hangin' there like an idiot.

The big hydraulic crane/arm thingies look stupid.

Look at how the heavy weapons are positioned... how the feth does it punch when the barrels of its guns stick out in front of its much-vaunted Doomfists?

Why is he wearing Terminator armour?

If you stare out it and tune out the pilot it looks like a headless mascot for an auto-repair company or something you'd see in a Pixar film.

It's not Chibi-Hawk bad, that's for sure, but it's bad.

This isn't good folks.

They should know better by now.

Still, all that said, I believe this model salvageable.

How, I'm not sure, but I'm sure that something can be done.

It's mostly the legs though.

The Ugly:

That, sir, is not a 'Nemesis DOOMFist'. That's a Nemesis Piece-of-Gak. They're not Dreadnought Close Combat weapons. There's nothing DOOM-like about them.

Pathetic.

The Daemonhammer is really weedy. After the awesome might of the Nemesis Great Sword (and it lives up to that name), the Hammer is a serious disppointment - it just looks like a regular Marine Thunder Hammer. Boring!

The non-helmeted head. Why????

Overall Impressions:
The Power Armour Grey Knights are a 6/10. The sculpts are fine, their paintjob on the Strike Squad makes them look worse than they are, and the lack of Halberds for the whole unit is a major oversight. It would be 9/10 but the stupid new Psycannon causes it to lose a point and the jumbo-sized Storm Bolter magazines knock two points off. They're awful.

The Grey Knight Terminators are a 9/10. They are certainly different from the existing metal ones, but not too different. I like the chunkier heads to be honest.

Everything about Draigo (the model) is awesome. Everything about Draigo (the character) is ball-tearingly stupid.

The Dreadknight... I dunno... if you can do more than just have it stand there looking all gaunt and stupid, then maybe it can be saved. If not, then it's another terrible waste of a slot on the yearly plastic frame quota.

Conclusion:
I feel another Chamber Militant coming on, and this time one that actually has rules!

ph34r wrote:Draigo on the other hand is a huge win.

I know. Doesn't his pose just scream "I'll carve my name into your heart... and then single-handedly defeat all of Chaos!"

I'm glad some people like the dreadknight, I am, I just can't get with it.

I was really excited about the concept and laughed off the blurry pic hatred as internet whining. Now that I've seen it I think it fails because it lacks the blocky, top-heavy design of Imperial vehicles in general and Space Marine dreadnoughts in particular. It has the relatively lighter, smoother angles of the afore-mentioned blockbuster sci-fi movie exo-suits, which, while fitting the design ethic of those movies, both struck me as things that would have look cooler with just a touch more 40K unwieldiness. It's less functional, probably, and less realistic, but the proportions on the dreadnought kit make it look freaking awesome. The dreadknight's track star legs make it look like a weird Gundam kit to me.

filbert wrote:The day I go into a bookstore and start counting pages per dollar as a way of trying to assign quality or value for money is the day I stop buying books. I don't do it with paperbacks from Waterstones so why should that apply to GW rule books? They are overpriced as it is - trying to justify that price by working out whether the price has increased from one edition to the next is simply clutching at straws.

So you'd be totally cool if codexes went down in page count, right?
Sorry bud, but a 50% longer codex that costs 50% more after half a dozen years of inflation is not unreasonable.

I think draigo with the helm would make a fantasy Grandmaster, with the old metal TAGK grandmaster as a brother-captain.

It would be nice to see if the scale has changed at all though...

ph34r wrote:

filbert wrote:The day I go into a bookstore and start counting pages per dollar as a way of trying to assign quality or value for money is the day I stop buying books. I don't do it with paperbacks from Waterstones so why should that apply to GW rule books? They are overpriced as it is - trying to justify that price by working out whether the price has increased from one edition to the next is simply clutching at straws.

So you'd be totally cool if codexes went down in page count, right?
Sorry bud, but a 50% longer codex that costs 50% more after half a dozen years of inflation is not unreasonable.

Quantity =/= quality.

I don't care about the number of pages - solely the content; that is what I make a value judgement on. Just because it has more pages than the previous edition does not justify a price increase and nor does it validate charging £17.50 for a book. GW codexes have always been overpriced for what they are (arguably the same as the rest of GW products) - its just even more readily apparent now, and will be when 40k codexes switch to hardback and the price rises further. Again, if I were to go into a bookstore and consider purchasing two books, I would not expect a 500 page paperback to cost more that a 300 page one. If that were true then authors would be paid piecework per word written rather than on the quality of their output. Trying to argue a price rise is justified because the page count is increased is a non-argument.

Wow gotta say I only give the whole line a 6/10. The new storm bolters and Special weapons look USE OF THE WORD 'slowed' AS A PEJORATIVE IS FORBIDDEN ON DAKKA. REMEMBER THAT SOME OF YOUR FELLOW POSTERS HAVE FRIENDS OR FAMILY WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES. DON'T DO IT AGAIN. The dreadknight looks EXACTLY like the walkers in James Camerons Avatar. and ther is just something funky about the heads.

Love the terminators though, nothing wrong with them I see.

I don't have an issue with the Dreadknight. some extra armor plates and more movement and it will be one bad ass model. Like so...

AvatarForm wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:In AUS he will be $33, and our dollar is stronger than yours.

Why. Does. It. Matter.

Any smart Aussie should have stopped ordering from GWOZ years ago.

We get it. You order online. Many of us do. The point was that a Canadian was complaining about his local RRP.

And he's $37, or $12 (48%) more expensive than US prices. I'm sure the conversion from GBP will be the usual 60%+ mark-up however.

filbert wrote:Quantity =/= quality.

I don't care about the number of pages - solely the content; that is what I make a value judgement on. Just because it has more pages than the previous edition does not justify a price increase and nor does it validate charging £17.50 for a book. GW codexes have always been overpriced for what they are (arguably the same as the rest of GW products) - its just even more readily apparent now, and will be when 40k codexes switch to hardback and the price rises further. Again, if I were to go into a bookstore and consider purchasing two books, I would not expect a 500 page paperback to cost more that a 300 page one. If that were true then authors would be paid piecework per word written rather than on the quality of their output. Trying to argue a price rise is justified because the page count is increased is a non-argument.

If you think an increase in content does not plausibly, even possibly justify an increase in cost, then I honestly don't know what to say for your critical thinking skills.
EDIT: Actually I do, they suck

You are welcome to quit 40k forever and leave Dakka, though. I don't think you will like what 40k has in store if you are adverse to lowered model prices, increased model options, and increased codex content with exactly proportional price increases.

A-P wrote:- PAGK and GKT look good.
- Dreadknight
- Draigo. So he is a basically a generic guy in Terminator armour armed w a shield & sword. Something you can convert in 10 minutes from your leftover plastic bitz.

Dreadknight doesn't look Imperial. If it was more like the P. Engine or Throne of Judgement from WH maybe i'd like it, but it looks too "Tau/Avatar" to be a Marine construct...

But yes 12 year old kids with no loyalty to established Imperial design style will think it "roxxors111"

No thanks.

The Dreadknight remains, as of now, the worst model I have yet to see from GW. I like the Pumbagor better than I do the Dreadknight.

The Terminators and PAGKs though...are ace.
-The clips on the Storm Bolters, while a bit unwieldy are the same size as the clips on the normal Storm Bolters we see in the Terminator boxed set. I like that, I like that far far better than that dinky clip on the Storm Bolter from the SM Commander box.

-The 'daemon heads', while a bit...over the top, make a kind of sense. By the time Grey Knights are supposed to be getting involved, a world is pretty much on the brink of becoming a Daemon World. Daemons have physically manifested themselves and are not restricted like they normally would be. So, rather than simply dissolving like they normally would--it is plausible that they'd remain as corpses.

-The Terminators. Sweet zombie Jesus, I love them. Banner, Apothecary, everything one could need for making a Deathwing force

ph34r wrote:

filbert wrote:Quantity =/= quality.

I don't care about the number of pages - solely the content; that is what I make a value judgement on. Just because it has more pages than the previous edition does not justify a price increase and nor does it validate charging £17.50 for a book. GW codexes have always been overpriced for what they are (arguably the same as the rest of GW products) - its just even more readily apparent now, and will be when 40k codexes switch to hardback and the price rises further. Again, if I were to go into a bookstore and consider purchasing two books, I would not expect a 500 page paperback to cost more that a 300 page one. If that were true then authors would be paid piecework per word written rather than on the quality of their output. Trying to argue a price rise is justified because the page count is increased is a non-argument.

If you think an increase in content does not plausibly, even possibly justify an increase in cost, then I honestly don't know what to say for your critical thinking skills.
EDIT: Actually I do, they suck

You are welcome to quit 40k forever and leave Dakka, though. I don't think you will like what 40k has in store if you are adverse to lowered model prices, increased model options, and increased codex content with exactly proportional price increases.

What on earth has not liking the price of a new codex and range got to do with quitting 40k and Dakka?

I think we shall have to agree to disagree. However, if you think that the price of a book should correlate to the number of pages in it, then I fear for you.

Edit: I'm not going to bother debating with you - if you wish to be rude and insult other posters then that is your look out. Welcome to ignore.

I'm not seeing what's so awesome about Draigo. He has a nifty shield, but aside from that, he looks like a Grey Knight in Terminator armor, and it looks like he's sorta twisting away at a weird axis/angle, and his cloak seems relatively static even though it's angled as well. (Like it's starched too much ;-))

Looks like a Seb Perbet marine to me. Comparing them side by side with Stern still leaves me with a "meh".

EDIT:

Also, I think the DreadKnight has potential. It's not as bad as some of you are making it out to be. As such, looking at His Master's Voice's picture, if you can enclose the pilot so his legs aren't sticking out, it looks alot cooler. Hell, if you remove the pilot and give it a "head", or a dreadnought sarcophagus, it would probably look pretty pimp.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Power Armour Grey Knights

Two Halberds per box? Are you kidding me? Unless they're suddenly limited to two per squad (which is gonna piss a LOT of existing players off) then that's just criminal.

I don't think this is a mayor issue. For starters, there's actually 3 in the box (all on the second sprue). And with heavy weapons taking up both hands and the fact that you're probably not going to take 100% halberds on all your PAGK, you should have plenty.

The magazines on the Storm Bolters. They look ridiculous. Great big exaggerated over-sized clips sticking out the side is by far the worst design decision about this entire kit. They're horrible!

Agree, the sickle magazines on the already large storm bolters make it look out of proportions. But it seems they're seperate on the sprues so perhaps it's not a really big issue. Depends if the side of the stormbolters the magazine is attached to is smooth or have a "insert magazine here" gap.

Grey Knight Terminators:

I really can't tell what's meant to be a Paladin and what's not... they're not distinct enough in my mind.

I think the ones with the book banners are the Paladins?

Nemesis Dreadknight:

Look at how the heavy weapons are positioned... how the feth does it punch when the barrels of its guns stick out in front of its much-vaunted Doomfists?

Switch to a cutting flame a la Ork Burna Boys? Or Heavy Psycannon-whip them in the face!

Why is he wearing Terminator armour?

Why wouldn't he? Every GK has a suit of terminator armour, so power armour would be less common. And while he's in a huge exo-suit, he's exposed to the elements.

The Daemonhammer is really weedy. After the awesome might of the Nemesis Great Sword (and it lives up to that name), the Hammer is a serious disppointment - it just looks like a regular Marine Thunder Hammer. Boring!

Aye, it looks way too small. Luckely, hammers aren't that hard to make your self. Just need a rod, a bit to smash face with and some bling to make it look more ornate.

filbert wrote:What on earth has not liking the price of a new codex and range got to do with quitting 40k and Dakka?

When one runs out or arguments to make, one begins to attack the poster. Pretty simple really.

Love:

Terminator Armored Apothecary and Standard Bearer. About freaking time, and when do we get one for the Dark Angels? Every SM chapter should get terminator command squads, honestly.

Glad to get more archaic looking power armor.

Hate:

Why do the stormbolters look like a 12 year old glued them on at the last second? The Blood Angel "Angelus Boltguns" look way better on the wrist than these do.

Those warp-jump backpacks look ridiculous.

Terrible posing overall, though hopefully that was just the way these were assembled.

The Dreadknight

Dual sword wielding Terminators WITH storm bolters still? DAMN! Ginsu for the Emperor, I guess.

Something about the heads of all of the GKs just seems a little odd. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Draigo with helmet looks bad ass. Might be too expensive, but I would buy that model if I didn't play GK.

Dreadknight is meh. I think most of it is OK, except the huge hydraulics on the back t control the arms. I will probably modify mine to eliminate those and make the pilot more secure.

Overall though, I'm a fan. I'll give it an 8 out of 10 from what I see.

Oooh! Pretty:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mattlov wrote:Something about the heads of all of the GKs just seems a little odd. I can't quite put my finger on it.

It's wierd, innit? I think we're all seeing something 'wrong' with the GK heads, but we just can't work out what's actually wrong with it.

His Master's Voice wrote:I don't have an issue with the Dreadknight. some extra armor plates and more movement and it will be one bad ass model. Like so...

Hmm, more like so, I'd say: (though it is not that good done, but you get the idea)

I'm almost thinking it might just be the way they're painted.

No, really--I'm serious here!

It almost looks like they had someone do the models in NMM in some places, and standard metallics in others. Those two methods, when done by someone who knows WTF they're doing, would cause a very sharp contrast in photos and cause an 'off' feeling that you just can't place.