Brother SRM wrote:As cool as that would be, the Giger-influenced stuff would be a huge departure from the entire range as is. They'd probably need to start the line over to go in that direction, and there's so many portrayals of Chaos Marines out there in games, books, and 40k proper that I don't see it changing. I could definitely see some Giger elements becoming incorporated in new kits or characters though.

Just Dave wrote:"their true form. This is namely a misshapen morass of decomposing filth"

Make models for that will ya Games Workshop?*

lord_blackfang wrote:For example, someone asked him around May if Hrud would be getting a codex and he said no.

ghost21 wrote:Re: hrud ive not heard a single thing this doesnt mean there are not coming

it was probably just spam.. however ill keep a look out as id love them to apear

aka_mythos wrote:
I always thought the Space Crusade Chaos marines were a good balance of those visual elements and the more modern marine:

Kazwulf wrote:Kroothawk:
Does it sound like the design approach to the new CSM codex follows the same path laid by the latest work -- i.e. more variety, additional options for customizing your own personalized armies, army-wide selections?

ghost21 wrote:Basically, as I understand, if we want more than 1 havoc squad, they have to trade sth for it (so not limits on HS per sé)
As I understand, they can take khornate engines without restriction.
Sorry to cause confusiuon.
(...)
There are downsides to chaos units: Nurgle can't do sweeping advances (I think that's what they are called, and are stoic), Khorne has to engage in some kind of combat every turn or suffer a d6 result, Tzeentch (sp, ooooh I hate that word) are mindless automatons, who need a command figure or suffer a d6 result to guide their actions, and Slaanesh ... well let's say they have very harsh results.
(...)
As I've said, it will probably be the first or second 6th ed book, 6th ed is slated for july I think (but also I have bb then... so I dunno), so anything up to 4 months after that (and this is the Legions book, not the renegades).

theDarkGeneral wrote:I'm glad ghost21 was able to confirm my early reply about Warsmiths and Dark Apostles, and World Eaters w/Bolters...

Here's more tidbits over a few shots of bourbon and some cigars...

*Chaos Dreads: No longer crazed or deranged, and new plastic (FINALLY) sprue to incorporate some new/old dreadnought close combat weapons types (chainfist, thunderhammer, power scourge, etc.)...but i'm more excited about being able to have Marked Dreads!!!

*Assault Berzerkers! Finally, Berzerkers with jump packs counting as Fast Attack!

*Slaughterfiends from Apoc will make their way into the Codex, along with versions for "Marked" type ones for other Legions.

*HQs making a return (lil' salt): Droomrider, Doombreed, Cypher , along with 5 newish guys.

*Unit size changes: Oblitz can come in up to 4, while most Daemon Engines can be 3 for 1...

*New Landraider: So we no longer have to suffer with just the old crumby one, has a higher capacity (15?) but is more of "warped" version of one of the Imperial versions.

*Force Org Chart: As ghost21 has alluded to, it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...

(...)
I mean there is to be a "scout unit", but no associated with the World Eaters.

And as Brother Dimetrius has already mentioned, Cypher indeed was a Chaos model, and appeared in at least one of our previous Codexes. Could that mean a hint at Dark Angels around the bend? I think that'd be very cool, especially considering they are the FIRST Legion...

*Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.

*Possessed: FINALLY getting some love, and according to Legion, they will have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.

*Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!

*Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.

*Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!

*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...

*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...

*Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky bastards!

*Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.

(...)
To think their won't be drawbacks...wait, what are the drawbacks to playing Space Wolves or Grey Knights????....

I don't recall either ghost21 or myself mentioning any such thing...thus far just the wanted positives have been posted.

Rage? Modified by LD tests...which are/can be modified by characters and or enemy models within "X" vicinity.

Arrogance...newish rule (with a different name), which is almost like looking down upon a foe and not wishing to fight...or tactically fall back.

Target Armor Priority...how hard will it be for certain Havoc squads to NOT shoot the Devilfish behind the Crisis Battlesuites?

There WON'T be Force Org Chart slots exchanged for another...but access to units from Force Org Chart will be modified according to HQs...

TheDarkGeneral wrote:...*Chaos Dreads: No longer crazed or deranged, and new plastic (FINALLY) sprue to incorporate some new/old dreadnought close combat weapons types (chainfist, thunderhammer, power scourge, etc.)...but i'm more excited about being able to have Marked Dreads!!!
...
*Unit size changes: Oblitz can come in up to 4, while most Daemon Engines can be 3 for 1...

*New Landraider: So we no longer have to suffer with just the old crumby one, has a higher capacity (15?) but is more of "warped" version of one of the Imperial versions.
...
*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...

Durza wrote:I'd be somewhat sceptical about them getting rid of the Dread rules.

*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...

htj wrote:I think he's being fed false information. I remember reading a while back that someone had been abusing a GW employees trust, and to catch him out they had given them false information and watched the anonymous poster on Warseer they thought was him. Sure enough, the false information came up. I suspect that poster was ghost21.

BOLS's Little Bird wrote:Alright, story time.

My "source" (let's call him Mr. Black because it sounds cool) has been leaking small tidbits to his friends for years, with the understanding that we keep things under wraps and not say anything until it becomes public knowledge on the internet. He's a cool guy and we want him to keep his job. One of the guys in my group is a poster on Warseer and he leaks like a soggy teabag, though. Mr. Black suspected this, but it wasn't that big of a deal because most of the information he shares with us is either confirmations of rumors that are already out there, it's small stuff that most people wouldn't care that much about (fluff, internal workings, etc). Well, Mr. Black has a laptop, and on that laptop are the next 2-3 unreleased codices plus plenty of other work-related stuff. When Mr. Black went to the restroom one day without locking his laptop, our leaky friend snuck a peak at the unreleased GK codex and leaked a ton of rumors onto Warseer. He didn't get caught at first, but suspicions were running high. Later as a test, Mr. Black told Leaky about some new information he'd heard from on high (all of it completely BS), and sure enough the next day it's all over Warseer under the same account name as the guy who leaked the GK rumors.

Now that we have confirmation that Leaky is a ****, he is being fed a lot of utter BS to see how gullible he is and/or how long it takes him to realize that he's been caught red-handed. I don't know Leaky's screenname but people who frequent Warseer might be able to take a stab at it.

That said, I haven't talked to Mr. Black in a few weeks and have no idea if this Hrud information is legitimate or not. Basically I'm just giving the rumor mill a bit of a warning.

aka_mythos wrote:This is a very juicy set of rumors.

ghost21 wrote:...*Chaos Dreads: No longer [SNIP!]

aka_mythos wrote:

Durza wrote:I'd be somewhat sceptical about them getting rid of the Dread rules.

Its a poor and very antiquated rule that doesn't even fit the current edition... its rules made it either limitedly usable or required the player to neuter their dreadnought just to get it into the army. You are paying a premium in points for a rule that either doesn't work or works against you the vast majority of the time... and its treated like a good thing, when it isn't.

In an average 6 turn game, you're likely to have it do nothing 4/6th of the time... 1/6th it can shoot well and 1/6th it assaults well... so right off you're paying points for something you will not benefit from the majority of the time. Next the two "beneficial" outcome conditionally mutually exclusive... meaning they are only truely positive some of the time... Since only the last 1/4th to 1/3rd of the game tends to occur in assault range for a dreadnought meaning on average out of 1/6th of the time you get the assault bonus, it only helps only 1/3rd of the time... meaning 1/18rd of the time do you get it when you can use it. With the shooting ability its much the same, because despite being more inclined to shooting by being in shooting range 2/3rd of the time the first 1/3rd of the game is spent with your own units being the closest and thus in danger of being targets. Thus the shooting rule is only of benefit 1/18th of the time and we're paying points for a rule that helps us about as often as it hurts us, but otherwise has no impact beyond making you worry it might cause your army to self destruct.

To make the unit viable these rules actually push you towards spending more points to make it a dedicated close combat unit or to march it alongside something its shooting can't hurt. In other words its just poor rules writing.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
...Its the 4th Ed rules that maked the Crazed rule lame and counter product if for Chaos players...

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Getting rid of the Crazed rule of the Chaos Dread is stupid...,that was one of the things that made a Chaos Dread superior to any Loyalist Dreads, the guy could Shoot twice with his weapons or double his attacks on assault!!!, do you know many Dreads with more then 9 attacks?...(exception made of the DC Dread and Blood Talons...).

Slayer le boucher wrote:
All they need to do is to put back the Crazed rule as it was back in 3rd and 3.5Ed.

aka_mythos wrote:

Durza wrote:I'd be somewhat sceptical about them getting rid of the Dread rules.

Its a poor and very antiquated rule that doesn't even fit the current edition... its rules made it either limitedly usable or required the player to neuter their dreadnought just to get it into the army. You are paying a premium in points for a rule that either doesn't work or works against you the vast majority of the time... and its treated like a good thing, when it isn't.

In an average 6 turn game, you're likely to have it do nothing 4/6th of the time... 1/6th it can shoot well and 1/6th it assaults well... so right off you're paying points for something you will not benefit from the majority of the time. Next the two "beneficial" outcome conditionally mutually exclusive... meaning they are only truely positive some of the time... Since only the last 1/4th to 1/3rd of the game tends to occur in assault range for a dreadnought meaning on average out of 1/6th of the time you get the assault bonus, it only helps only 1/3rd of the time... meaning 1/18rd of the time do you get it when you can use it. With the shooting ability its much the same, because despite being more inclined to shooting by being in shooting range 2/3rd of the time the first 1/3rd of the game is spent with your own units being the closest and thus in danger of being targets. Thus the shooting rule is only of benefit 1/18th of the time and we're paying points for a rule that helps us about as often as it hurts us, but otherwise has no impact beyond making you worry it might cause your army to self destruct.

To make the unit viable these rules actually push you towards spending more points to make it a dedicated close combat unit or to march it alongside something its shooting can't hurt. In other words its just poor rules writing.

Kanluwen wrote:Wow. I just realized I put this in the entirely wrong thread...

My bad.

How about those awesome new Chaos rumors?

Samus_aran115 wrote:>DOOMRIDER

shdgfygskufb Everything else is irrelevant.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

aka_mythos wrote:

Durza wrote:I'd be somewhat sceptical about them getting rid of the Dread rules.

Its a poor and very antiquated rule that doesn't even fit the current edition... its rules made it either limitedly usable or required the player to neuter their dreadnought just to get it into the army. You are paying a premium in points for a rule that either doesn't work or works against you the vast majority of the time... and its treated like a good thing, when it isn't.

In an average 6 turn game, you're likely to have it do nothing 4/6th of the time... 1/6th it can shoot well and 1/6th it assaults well... so right off you're paying points for something you will not benefit from the majority of the time. Next the two "beneficial" outcome conditionally mutually exclusive... meaning they are only truely positive some of the time... Since only the last 1/4th to 1/3rd of the game tends to occur in assault range for a dreadnought meaning on average out of 1/6th of the time you get the assault bonus, it only helps only 1/3rd of the time... meaning 1/18rd of the time do you get it when you can use it. With the shooting ability its much the same, because despite being more inclined to shooting by being in shooting range 2/3rd of the time the first 1/3rd of the game is spent with your own units being the closest and thus in danger of being targets. Thus the shooting rule is only of benefit 1/18th of the time and we're paying points for a rule that helps us about as often as it hurts us, but otherwise has no impact beyond making you worry it might cause your army to self destruct.

To make the unit viable these rules actually push you towards spending more points to make it a dedicated close combat unit or to march it alongside something its shooting can't hurt. In other words its just poor rules writing.

Agreed. I hated having to take missiles and HBs just to even get them on the table. GW were shooting themselves in the foot the second they put 'crazed' on it. I wonder how many Chaos Dreads are locked away in old boxes ready to wreak havoc upon the empire once more?