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Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





 JNAProductions wrote:
RaptorHunter wrote:
I have a question and hopefully this is the right place.

I am preparing for a Crusade campaign. Crusade rules state that I can not select a warlord trait or relic unless I buy the specific requisition. The rules also say I can't use stratagems to upgrade units. Both Artefactorum and Host of the Intermediary state that I give a Skitarii Alpha or Princeps model a relic/warlord trait.

According to the relic requisitions, I can only use the requisition when I add or upgrade a <Character> model to my Order of Battle. I see no further explanation or rules in the Admech codex on additional Crusade rules for those strategems.

Looking at RAW, I am unable to ever use those two strategems to upgrade a Skitarii model with a warlord trait/relic.

Am I interpreting this correctly or am I missing something?
Seems right to me.

But talk to the people you're playing with. Work something out with them.


yeah we house ruled any unit upgrades can be done using the standard wlt and artifact requisitions. We have one specifically for holy orders so that's covered as well. but RAW you cant use artefactorum or host of the intermediary in crusade, which may get an faq if they feel so inclined, but as it's not matched play you're at liberty to do what you want with your group anyway.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

So given that i cant get a marshal atm (thanks GW for shafting local gaming stores...) and my admech collection is mostly infantry-based...

Am i missing something and the marshall ISNT mandatory for the doctrinas? I know hes super crucial to a skiitari heavy list but apparently im not gonna get one for awhile.
(Friend said he was gonna get it for me for my bday but because of the delays and GW shafting local games stores on shipments it missed my bday, so im not just ordering one)

My collection kinda doesnt condone non-infantry spamming tactics lol
Spoiler:

3 dominus
1 manip
3 techpriests
1 Dr. D proxy
30 Rangers
30 Vanguard
--> in addition, 4 rangers with arc rifles, 4 with transbus, 2 with plasma 4 vanguards with plasma
3 Destroyers/Breachers (magnetized) with 6 more still in a box
10 Electropriests
20 Hoplites
10 Ruststalkers
10 Skystalkers
10 Sterylizers
6 Sulfurhounds
4 Dragoons w/ taser lances
2 Autocannon ironstriders
2 Datasmiths (one was kitbashed to a techpriest)
6 Robots (magnetized fists/shoulder gun)
3 Dunecrawlers (magnetized all guns)
2 Skorpius/Transports (kitbashed to swap between the two)
1 Termite drill

Really feels like the lists i can concoct with this DEMAND a marshal inclusion lol....

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/21 18:15:29


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

The Marshall has very little impact on Doctrinas in practice. I've been playing a couple games a week without him. You play around the Doctrina's negative effect anyway, so ignoring it with a unit or two tends not be crucial. The units that would benefit most from his ignore-malus effect (Sicarrians) don't have data-tethers to access it anyway.

   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ideasweasel wrote:
I’d argue our troops is probably the strongest of choices just behind las chickens

Bombers and sicarians are also good. Marshall and Manipulus is great

But I’m struggling to see how OP everything is after that. Sisters, Orks, Grey Knights and recently changed Drukhari are all on the horizon

Probably a bit too early to be panicking about admech running away with it


I don''t think Admech are going to run away with it. One key thing it boils down to in the current meta is "Can Admech counter Drukhari?". Drukhari are the accepted top tier army right now. In order to run away with it, Admech has to be able to counter or beat Drukhari well. The question is "Does it?". I mean, Admech is obviously in a strong place right now. You would probably stomp on many other armies. But do you stomp Drukhari?

Let me raise a battle report I just saw on youtube from tabletop tactics. So Lawrence from tabletop tactics took a cut throat list he is planning to take to a GT and played against Stigg's admech list. Now, I would be the first to say that it wasn't a fair matchup. Stigg is clearly not the level of player that Lawrence is, and player skill matters a ton in 9th edition. However, as it stands, if Admech can counter Drukhari well, it shouldn't have been such a one sided match. But it was. By the end of Drukhari turn 2, there was very little admech forces left. The game was literally over by the end of turn 2.

Now, leaving aside the difference in player skill, which was a big factor. Stigg's admech army wasn't utterly bad either. It had 6 ironstriders (whom we all know are super good right now). It had one big blob of max 20 vanguard. It had doggos for running away and move blocking, it had the flying Pteraxii and then it had a whole bunch of other stuff, which was still good. It even had some melee, so its not like it was utterly powerless in close combat. But Lawrence's Drukhari list just demolished him.

So, I am throwing this out here. How does Admech handle Drukhari? Because Drukhari list will have raiders, and lots of cheap but deadly units in them like Incubi and Wyches. So, against Admech.

1) Their raiders are flying, so they are not move blocked by doggos.
2) Turn 1, with enhanced ether sails, its quite possible they can get one raider or venom close enough to charge into and lock out one of your shooty units from close combat. (This is what Lawrence did).
3) Their dark lances can be taken in enough qualities and are deadly enough to put a dent in admech shooting.
4) Even without taking out all of admech shooting, their raiders can still hug terrain cover while moving up the board on turn 1
5) On turn 2, when everything in those raiders advance and charge out of combat. Its lights out if you took a purely shooting army (no matter how many rangers or vanguard you take). You can only buff one vanguard unit, you can't buff all of your troops enough, and lets face it, once vanguard or rangers are locked in melee. They are neutralised. So, its only a matter of time before they die even if they don't die immediately to the million attacks coming from a wych or incubi, or master succubus, etc.

The key problem is that Admech is a primarily shooty army. That's where its strengths lies. Drukhari are the masters of getting the charge in on turn 2. And its just very difficult to prevent Drukhari from getting that game winning mass melee charges in on turn 2.

So, how does Admech handle Drukhari?
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

How do you charge after using Advanced Aethersails? Doesn't that count as advancing? Because DEldar don't get Advance and Charge till T2.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you charge after using Advanced Aethersails? Doesn't that count as advancing? Because DEldar don't get Advance and Charge till T2.


Lawrence was playing Black Heart. Black Heart treats the power from pain table as one turn higher. So, they get to advance and charge on turn 1 instead of turn 2. Now, granted this is only if you take Black Heart. But Black Heart is a pretty common choice for Drukhari anyway.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Eldenfirefly wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you charge after using Advanced Aethersails? Doesn't that count as advancing? Because DEldar don't get Advance and Charge till T2.


Lawrence was playing Black Heart. Black Heart treats the power from pain table as one turn higher. So, they get to advance and charge on turn 1 instead of turn 2. Now, granted this is only if you take Black Heart. But Black Heart is a pretty common choice for Drukhari anyway.
Oki. Makes sense to me.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






Eldenfirefly wrote:
I don''t think Admech are going to run away with it. One key thing it boils down to in the current meta is "Can Admech counter Drukhari?". Drukhari are the accepted top tier army right now. In order to run away with it, Admech has to be able to counter or beat Drukhari well. The question is "Does it?". I mean, Admech is obviously in a strong place right now. You would probably stomp on many other armies. But do you stomp Drukhari?

Let me raise a battle report I just saw on youtube from tabletop tactics. So Lawrence from tabletop tactics took a cut throat list he is planning to take to a GT and played against Stigg's admech list. Now, I would be the first to say that it wasn't a fair matchup. Stigg is clearly not the level of player that Lawrence is, and player skill matters a ton in 9th edition. However, as it stands, if Admech can counter Drukhari well, it shouldn't have been such a one sided match. But it was. By the end of Drukhari turn 2, there was very little admech forces left. The game was literally over by the end of turn 2.

Now, leaving aside the difference in player skill, which was a big factor. Stigg's admech army wasn't utterly bad either. It had 6 ironstriders (whom we all know are super good right now). It had one big blob of max 20 vanguard. It had doggos for running away and move blocking, it had the flying Pteraxii and then it had a whole bunch of other stuff, which was still good. It even had some melee, so its not like it was utterly powerless in close combat. But Lawrence's Drukhari list just demolished him.

So, I am throwing this out here. How does Admech handle Drukhari? Because Drukhari list will have raiders, and lots of cheap but deadly units in them like Incubi and Wyches. So, against Admech.

1) Their raiders are flying, so they are not move blocked by doggos.
2) Turn 1, with enhanced ether sails, its quite possible they can get one raider or venom close enough to charge into and lock out one of your shooty units from close combat. (This is what Lawrence did).
3) Their dark lances can be taken in enough qualities and are deadly enough to put a dent in admech shooting.
4) Even without taking out all of admech shooting, their raiders can still hug terrain cover while moving up the board on turn 1
5) On turn 2, when everything in those raiders advance and charge out of combat. Its lights out if you took a purely shooting army (no matter how many rangers or vanguard you take). You can only buff one vanguard unit, you can't buff all of your troops enough, and lets face it, once vanguard or rangers are locked in melee. They are neutralised. So, its only a matter of time before they die even if they don't die immediately to the million attacks coming from a wych or incubi, or master succubus, etc.

The key problem is that Admech is a primarily shooty army. That's where its strengths lies. Drukhari are the masters of getting the charge in on turn 2. And its just very difficult to prevent Drukhari from getting that game winning mass melee charges in on turn 2.

So, how does Admech handle Drukhari?


In a mechanical voice, "I also received word of the loss of our brother The Stig to the Drukhari race. I analyze the battle and there were several mistakes made by the Tech-Priest in command of those forces. I am 87.5% sure that my suggestions would have turned the battle around, The Stig's army had everything he needed to win with a few changes he could have won, if I may have your attention?"




First off he did not use the Serbery's raiders as movement blockers their scout move should have denied the first turn charge. The Serbery's raiders and better deployment would have protected his kataphron units from the first-turn charge. He needed those units to put in work and they did not even get a chance due to bad deployment.

The admech player forgot several stratagems that would have given him a better chance at winning the game. When Drazhar killed a walker (1:09:10 mark) he should have activated machine spirit's revenge stratagem it makes vehicles auto explode. One mortal wound would have killed an incubus from each squad resulting in 6 fewer attacks into the dragoon unit. Secondly, he should have put all attacks into one unit instead of splitting the 4 attacks each (1:15:20 mark). Lastly, he should have placed the marshall in a position where the dragoons could have benefited from his Exemplar's Eternity. He also rolled bad no 5 or 6's out of 8 dice. However with the re-roll, he would have gotten two re-rolls to hit each having a 33% chance of exploding, and with the Marshall nearby they would have almost guaranteed to wound with the re-roll 1's to wound.

During our turn, we activate protector imperative and we kill the enemy in the name of the Omnissiah! First use the desperate breakout stratagem with the dragoons to fall back matter of fact everything falls back. Falling back would leave the incubi, drazhar, and wyches exposed. The Sterylizors could come in and flamed one unit of incubi (should easily kill that unit especially with the Marshall), have the infiltrators come on near the HQ units, and shoot that incubi unit (easily killing that unit especially with the Marshall). Have the dominus in range to give the 5 rangers galvanic field move them up and spend 4 cp on Drazahar. Rapid-fire 2 and 6's to wound causes mortal wounds with re-rolls and ap 2 those 20 shots will kill him. That would have eliminated all of the incubi and drazhar he would have to deal with raiders, wyches, and warriors and the opponent had no cp at that point.

It's a shame he could not get more out of the kataphrons he really needed those guys that is why Spyder targeted them first. Stig did a poor job of keeping units in the range of his HQ units to receive buffs.

I know I shouldn't share my forge world secrets but imagine what would happen to Spyder's 2 or 3 Raiders if a 5 man squad of dragoons come in using the Cartogrammatist stratagem and you activate Invocation of Machine Vengeance? Rolling 3d6 taking away the lowest on the charge, combine that with 5+ exploding taser stratagem and Conqueror Imperative to hit on 2's, how many do you think he can kill?

did not notice the keyword with cartogrammatist cannot do this, however outflanking with the dragoons can accomplish the same thing. That was an epic fail but lets see if this secret is better. 10 Infiltrators Mars doing the same thing except deep striking for free and they have access to a +1 atk/str stratagems and they can use the taser 5+ exploding.First 50 str 3 shots, followed by 31 str 7 exploding on 5+ taser attacks will hurt vehicles.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 17:28:12


   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





 CKO wrote:

I know I shouldn't share my forge world secrets but imagine what would happen to Spyder's 2 or 3 Raiders if a 5 man squad of dragoons come in using the Cartogrammatist stratagem and you activate Invocation of Machine Vengeance? Rolling 3d6 taking away the lowest on the charge, combine that with 5+ exploding taser stratagem and Conqueror Imperative to hit on 2's, how many do you think he can kill?



You can't cartogrammatist dragoons, only works on cult mech core, you cant do it to robots either because until they're on the table they don't have core. It's another example of a cult mech ability that pretty much only works on priests :|

There are other ways to pull off the same thing if you don't go Mars (mars is really a false crux now I think) Hell you can just put them in standard reserves tbh, and programmed retreat can be used on dragoons or ballistarii so they can fallback and shoot and charge for free wherever they are on the board if needed. No cp cost, no penalties.

I might watch the report later, but it's so time consuming and ultimately frustrating seeing suboptimal lists and choices as an outsider so I tend to just look at the list and judge from that whether it's worth me watching it lol
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Cartogrammist is one of those traits which feels like it got slapped with the "Cult Mechanicus Core" at the last second.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't think the list was that terrible to be honest. Like I said, it had quite a few of Admech's top tier units, and the rest weren't bad either. Now, again, the difference in player skill was definitely a factor. But let's put it this way, if Admech was so top tier meta good, it should have much less problems against Drukhari who are the top dog right now. But that doesn't quite seem to be the case.

I raised several points why I think Drukhari ultimately have an advantage in a matchup against Admech. Won't repeat them. Scroll up and see what I said.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Cartogram trait to me feels like its a 1cp any forgeworld 'strat' to deepstrike one of the 2 priest units.
Theyre cult, theyre core, they always want to deepstrike.
Which in general i am fine putting that 'warlord trait' on a techpriest. Literally no impact if he dies by losing that 'trait' lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






So I think the world and his dog can see Lucius is the strongest FW

But assuming all it’s goodness is in line to get slapped by the nerf bat

What makes a top tier Mars list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ie what would form the core of a solid Mars list do we reckon?

If we look past all the transhuman vanguard trickery that Lucius provides

I’m almost reluctant to play Lucius as it’s just going to be the defacto standard

I just can’t see past it lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 16:40:39


 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






 Vineheart01 wrote:
Cartogram trait to me feels like its a 1cp any forgeworld 'strat' to deepstrike one of the 2 priest units.
Theyre cult, theyre core, they always want to deepstrike.
Which in general i am fine putting that 'warlord trait' on a techpriest. Literally no impact if he dies by losing that 'trait' lol


I did not notice that keyword, essentially vineheart is right! Outflanking with the dragoons and using Invocation of Machine Vengeance is still a nasty combo if you are using Mars.

   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i'm focusing on Ryza just becuase i usually played a half-gunline half-assault admech list anyway.
Which is funny because previously that was Lucius, especially with the +1 invul canticle they had previously.

Lucius now to me feels like something my locals wont be able to handle. At all. Theyre pretty bullheaded in changing their tactics around so if something counters what they normally do they almost never adapt.
Some because they simply cant, dont have the funds to get more models that quickly. Some are just that dense lol

And yeah, i noticed the priests fit perfectly with that cartogram trait immediately. And i was ecstatic because now i dont need a damn transport to do it in a forgeworld that doesnt have access to such strats.
Its only one unit but thats all i got anyway. Or even want to run. Though i admit i might want to get some of the shockgaunt priests now, but i wouldnt wanna run both.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 17:13:21


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






For as strong a Mars list as I can make

(I’m working on the assumption the bat boys are going to get nerfed into oblivion so I’m reluctant to even consider them)

So far I’m thinking double patrol

2-3 bombers
40 rangers
2x5 infiltrators
10 rustalkers
9 raiders
3x2 las chickens
2 Marshalls
1 manipulus

Maybe another couple of squad of infantry?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do dragoon’s have a place maybe?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 17:37:58


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Well...initially i didnt like the idea of putting Skiitari traits on Alphas because you cant really protect them, but i just noticed one that i seriously wanna do now.
(what i mean by cant protect them is while the alpha specifically is immune to being sniped, the unit can just be freely shot at)

Programmed Retreat.

Sterylizors already can fall back and charge but they cant shoot, and being loaded with D6 assault flamer shots thats annoying.
The Alpha for a measly 1cp allows them to fall back, shoot, and charge.
Yeesh lol

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/22 19:48:19


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Skittari





 Ideasweasel wrote:
So I think the world and his dog can see Lucius is the strongest FW
Ie what would form the core of a solid Mars list do we reckon
If we look past all the transhuman vanguard trickery that Lucius provides
I’m almost reluctant to play Lucius as it’s just going to be the defacto standard
I just can’t see past it lol


Honestly I can't see past Mars. Partly because having canticles on skitarii makes the game less complex and also because it gives them another way to stay alive in shroudpsalm.

Wrath of mars also just seems incredible for 1cp on practically any unit you would use it on. You can easily max out the 6 mortal wounds on rangers or infiltrators and that's nothing to sniff at.

Also am I wrong to think that wrath of mars on raiders stacks with their innate mortal wounds so that each 6 to wound would do 2 mortal wounds in addition to the regular wound at ap-1? If so then in addition to being a valuable screen I think a unit of 9 is a serious threat to enemy characters from the top of turn 1 if they don't completely hide them away. Seeing as they have a pregame 9'' move, can auto advance 6'' with the dunestriders strat and still shoot with no penalty that's a 45'' threat range. So if you go first I think you can just delete a lot of support characters since even 2 6s would do 4 wounds, then you just fall back if they charge you with the strat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 20:10:07


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




How many Ironstriders are enough? I feel like two-walker units with lascannon are on the edge of regularly picking up a tank, and three-walker units would guarantee those vehicles going down. I'm just theory-crafting though. What have peoples experiences been with these units?
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






 TheArchmagos wrote:
 Ideasweasel wrote:
So I think the world and his dog can see Lucius is the strongest FW
Ie what would form the core of a solid Mars list do we reckon
If we look past all the transhuman vanguard trickery that Lucius provides
I’m almost reluctant to play Lucius as it’s just going to be the defacto standard
I just can’t see past it lol


Honestly I can't see past Mars. Partly because having canticles on skitarii makes the game less complex and also because it gives them another way to stay alive in shroudpsalm.

Wrath of mars also just seems incredible for 1cp on practically any unit you would use it on. You can easily max out the 6 mortal wounds on rangers or infiltrators and that's nothing to sniff at.

Also am I wrong to think that wrath of mars on raiders stacks with their innate mortal wounds so that each 6 to wound would do 2 mortal wounds in addition to the regular wound at ap-1? If so then in addition to being a valuable screen I think a unit of 9 is a serious threat to enemy characters from the top of turn 1 if they don't completely hide them away. Seeing as they have a pregame 9'' move, can auto advance 6'' with the dunestriders strat and still shoot with no penalty that's a 45'' threat range. So if you go first I think you can just delete a lot of support characters since even 2 6s would do 4 wounds, then you just fall back if they charge you with the strat.


I love Mars and Lucius my list will be a combination and I am using two units of Sereby Raiders in my list. They are not simple move blockers anymore. The problem is our fast attack choices are slammed full of amazing units. Another character sniping unit is Mars Sterylizors, using the Wrath of Mars stratagem. This will require the enemy making an mistake or simply shooting away their protection than flaming them with 6's causing mortal wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 21:00:48


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 DarkHound wrote:
The Marshall has very little impact on Doctrinas in practice. I've been playing a couple games a week without him. You play around the Doctrina's negative effect anyway, so ignoring it with a unit or two tends not be crucial. The units that would benefit most from his ignore-malus effect (Sicarrians) don't have data-tethers to access it anyway.


I can't say that I am taking him wholly for the imperative manipulation, I'm taking him for rr1s on hit and wound in a 55 point package.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






 Vineheart01 wrote:
So given that i cant get a marshal atm (thanks GW for shafting local gaming stores...) and my admech collection is mostly infantry-based...

Am i missing something and the marshall ISNT mandatory for the doctrinas? I know hes super crucial to a skiitari heavy list but apparently im not gonna get one for awhile.
(Friend said he was gonna get it for me for my bday but because of the delays and GW shafting local games stores on shipments it missed my bday, so im not just ordering one)

My collection kinda doesnt condone non-infantry spamming tactics lol
Spoiler:

3 dominus
1 manip
3 techpriests
1 Dr. D proxy
30 Rangers
30 Vanguard
--> in addition, 4 rangers with arc rifles, 4 with transbus, 2 with plasma 4 vanguards with plasma
3 Destroyers/Breachers (magnetized) with 6 more still in a box
10 Electropriests
20 Hoplites
10 Ruststalkers
10 Skystalkers
10 Sterylizers
6 Sulfurhounds
4 Dragoons w/ taser lances
2 Autocannon ironstriders
2 Datasmiths (one was kitbashed to a techpriest)
6 Robots (magnetized fists/shoulder gun)
3 Dunecrawlers (magnetized all guns)
2 Skorpius/Transports (kitbashed to swap between the two)
1 Termite drill

Really feels like the lists i can concoct with this DEMAND a marshal inclusion lol....


All the HQs have DOCTRINA ASSEMBLER keywords, so you always have Imperatives as an option. Control Edict doesn't really do that much(it is 1 unit/Marshall with either limited range or additional points upgrade to the desired unit); so unless you also really want the reroll to-wounds of 1 Aura; you can do without him(Don't get me wrong, the aura is great, but you have to choose whether he will be granting t to ranged or melee units, and ranged ones waste his profile/wargear)

As for getting the model: I plan to build one from skitarii bits from my Skorpius + kitbashing. I did this for my daedelosus/technarcheologist already(engineseer + bits)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madjob wrote:
 DarkHound wrote:
The Marshall has very little impact on Doctrinas in practice. I've been playing a couple games a week without him. You play around the Doctrina's negative effect anyway, so ignoring it with a unit or two tends not be crucial. The units that would benefit most from his ignore-malus effect (Sicarrians) don't have data-tethers to access it anyway.


I can't say that I am taking him wholly for the imperative manipulation, I'm taking him for rr1s on hit and wound in a 55 point package.


45 point package

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/22 23:04:43


This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Souping in a super heavy detachment

What is it we lose again. Forgeworld dogmas, but we have access to holy orders, canticles, doctrinas and stratagems?
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

What, besides souping in Knights? If you soup in a non-Knights of the Cog detachment, you'll lose Canticles and Doctrinas, but keep dogmas, holy orders, and stratagems.

   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






So how does that work if I take say 3 crusaders as how raven

Then take a small Metallica patrol. My warlord is a crusader and I want to use the book of rust stratagem to give a knight canticles for the whole game

Would that mean a knight could get canticles but effectively my admech detachment couldn’t?

Man they really f’d up the handling of knights this edition haven't they
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

What? No. Knights of the Iron Cog includes this clause: (the inclusion of this unit in your army does not prevent ADEPTUS MECHANICUS units in your army from using any rules that require every model in your army to have the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS keyword). You have to give each Crusader the stratagem, but then the entire army counts as pure AdMech the same way Knights of the Cog does.

   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

So guys I'm going to a tournament in September. I haven't had more than 2 games of 9th since release but I've got the whole summer to practice. I'm not going there in with a WAAC mindset and want to play the models I own and I like, so the 4 Kastelan Robots are staying no matter what.

That said I'd like opinions on my draft list. Theory-tactica below.

Spoiler:

Lucius Batallion

HQ:
- Techpriest Dominus - Warlord Cartogrammist
- Techpriest Manipulus, Transsonic Cannon
- Skitarii Marshal

Troops:
- 10 Vanguards
- 10 Vanguards
- 5 Vanguards
- 5 Rangers
- 5 Rangers

Fast Attack:
- 10 Pteraxii Sterylizors, Programmed Retreat 1CP
- 5 Sulphurhounds
- 6 Ironstriders, 4 Autocannons & 2 Lascannons

Elite:
- 10 Fulgurite Electropriests
- Cybernetica Datasmith, Solar Flare

Heavy Support:
- 4 Kastelan Robots, Fists & Flamers
- Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array & Cognis Stubber

Total: 1900 pts

Rough battleplan:

Cartogrammist to tp Fulgurites, Solar Flare to tp Robots and Datasmith, Sterylizors deep strike. Binharic Override on Robots at the Charge phase for Conqueror Protocol. Use the 3d6-discard-lowest charge Canticle and try and get the charge with all. Robots can reroll charges, Fulgurites have Canticles, and Pteraxii have tactical reroll if needed.
If there's too much screen I delay the Sterylizors one turn and use the Sulphurhounds to kill screens. Then the Sulphurhounds can charge something to apply Irradiation if needed. So if all goes well turn 1 I've got 4 Robots, 10 Sterylizors and 10 Fulgurite engaged in various places.

With Programmed retreat I can engage a unit, and if it wants to disengage I lock it with the stratagem. Come my turn I disengage, shoot them with my 15" flamers and charge another target. The Robots will be a pain to remove and can't be ignored as they can reliably kill a Knight without buffs, and shoot their flamers at point blank. The Fulgurites will try to swarm an objective and deal with the objective holders, they can kill anything provided I roll 6s.

Meanwhile in my backline, I keep the 2x5 Rangers and the Onager on objectives, as well as the Ironstriders. The Onager is fat enough to cover an objective and require either to destroy it or engage it in melee to contest. Ironstriders can do a similar trick. The Dominus will sit there giving rerolls and repairing a bit. The Vanguards will advance behind and secure objectives, screen, perform actions or whatever is needed at the moment.

As for the Manipulus and the Marshal, I'd like to have them up in the field supporting the Pteraxii and other elements, my problem is how to get them there. Just advancing is slow and unreliable. I can get a Dunerider to transport a part of the Vanguards and both HQ maybe ? Also I need to think of what enhancements to give them, an Ordo or a relic to buff the melee units if I can.

I don't have other loadouts for the Ironstriders so can't use more Lascannons or something. I haven't bought yet 5 Fulgurites and the 10 Pteraxii, and could get more Skitarii if I buy the SC with the Dunerider.

Also struggling to chose a Forgeworld. Lucius give me resilience, +3" and Solar Flare (this FW is way too good), but Mars could give me the Canticles for all my force for more reliable charges and buffs. But then I'd lose the deep striking Bots and have to footslog them. Ryza is also a nice contender for +1 to charge and +1 to Wound on charge, which would go very well with the Pteraxii with their cycle charges.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 16:22:55


40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






bmsattler wrote:
How many Ironstriders are enough? I feel like two-walker units with lascannon are on the edge of regularly picking up a tank, and three-walker units would guarantee those vehicles going down. I'm just theory-crafting though. What have peoples experiences been with these units?

Three kills most vehicles. Two kills lighter vehicles. I bring 2x5 Ballistarii in 3x Lascannon and 2x Autocannon squadrons with Marshal to grant reroll 1s to hit and wound. The first unit tends to spread the damage out. The second one secures the kills.

 Aaranis wrote:
So guys I'm going to a tournament in September. I haven't had more than 2 games of 9th since release but I've got the whole summer to practice. I'm not going there in with a WAAC mindset and want to play the models I own and I like, so the 4 Kastelan Robots are staying no matter what.

That said I'd like opinions on my draft list. Theory-tactica below.

Spoiler:

Lucius Batallion

HQ:
- Techpriest Dominus - Warlord Cartogrammist
- Techpriest Manipulus, Transsonic Cannon
- Skitarii Marshal

Troops:
- 10 Vanguards
- 10 Vanguards
- 5 Vanguards
- 5 Rangers
- 5 Rangers

Fast Attack:
- 10 Pteraxii Sterylizors, Programmed Retreat 1CP
- 5 Sulphurhounds
- 6 Ironstriders, 4 Autocannons & 2 Lascannons

Elite:
- 10 Fulgurite Electropriests
- Cybernetica Datasmith, Solar Flare

Heavy Support:
- 4 Kastelan Robots, Fists & Flamers
- Onager Dunecrawler, Icarus Array & Cognis Stubber

Total: 1900 pts

I think you want at least one 20x unit of Vanguard. They pretty much delete heavy infantry, monsters, and Primarchs; can be used a deep striking bomb in Lucius; and they can turn any objective into a tarpit.

Corpuscarii are more reliable than Fulgurites IMO. You get to shoot with them and then attempt the charge. They do not fight as well as Fulgurites, of course, but the ability to interact in multiple phases is very valuable. However, if you are going to run them as Fulgurites, consider starting them out on the board and using Flare to get them into charge range. They need Logi to stick until they can get a kill for 4++. After that, you don't need to give them Logi anymore. (Downside is that you cannot use the Flare for your Robots, which is a problem.)

Not so sure if it is worth going up to 6x Ballistarii. Lots of nasty Blast weapons out there that will put the hurt on them, and maneuvering them in pairs is difficult.

I would also consider at least one 5x unit of Infiltrators. It helps to establish a bit of a beach head in the midboard. You can also use them to capture objectives and complete secondaries. Definitely MVPs in terms of scoring.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 02:11:49


 
   
Made in us
Implacable Skitarii





Heading to a post pandemic beerhammer with some buds. Decided to take my pandemic project army, but as I have no play experience, I have no clue if this list is any good. Would love some pointers.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Lucius

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Archeotech Specialist [-2CP]: 2x Archeotech Specialist

Stratagem: Host of the Intermediary [-1CP]: Host of the Intermediary

Stratagem: Mechanicus Locum [-2CP]: 2x Mechanicus Locum

+ No Force Org Slot +

Brotherhood of the Cog [3 PL, 55pts]
. Tech-Priest Enginseer

+ HQ +

Skitarii Marshal [3 PL, 45pts]: Relic: Exemplar's Eternity, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 5): Firepoint Telemetry Cache

Tech-Priest Dominus [5 PL, 100pts]: Artisans, Macrostubber, Mechanicus Locum, Relic: Temporcopia, Volkite Blaster, Warlord Trait (Lucius): Luminescent Blessings

Tech-Priest Manipulus [6 PL, 105pts]: Logi, Magnarail lance, Mechanicus Locum, Relic: Raiment of the Technomartyr

+ Troops +

Kataphron Breachers [12 PL, 175pts]
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 160pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle, Host of the Intermediary, Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Programmed Retreat
. 19x Skitarii Ranger: 19x Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Vanguards [8 PL, 160pts]
. 19x Skitarii Vanguard: 19x Radium Carbine
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Elites +

Fulgurite Electro-Priests [12 PL, 300pts]
. 20x Fulgurite Electro-Priest: 20x Electroleech Stave

+ Fast Attack +

Ironstrider Ballistarii [12 PL, 215pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Autocannon

Pteraxii Sterylizors [8 PL, 133pts]: Pteraxii Sterylizor Alpha
. 6x Pteraxii Sterylizor: 6x Phosphor torch, 6x Pteraxii Talons

Serberys Raiders [6 PL, 112pts]
. 6x Serberys Raider: 6x Cavalry Sabre, 6x Clawed Limbs, 6x Galvanic Carbine
. Serberys Raider Alpha: Host of the Intermediary

+ Heavy Support +

Skorpius Disintegrator [8 PL, 145pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon

Skorpius Disintegrator [8 PL, 145pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon

+ Flyer +

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaff Launcher

++ Total: [106 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++


The plan-
Fulgurites and Dominus us Lucius strat to port in. Hopefully Luminescent Beings keeps them around a bit. Artisans seems awesome to allow a charge every turn. (Solar flare would be sweet for T1 charge, but then I'd lose the fight last)

Enginseer hangs back and buffs one or both tanks

Marshal and Manipulus buff vanguards as they move up.

Flyer for debuff strats


Is this any good?

I had another idea of running 2x 11 corpuscarii in twin termites for supreme annoyance. Maybe as Ryza. Lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 16:11:24


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Whats the toughts on the upcoming immediate hotfixes?
At the very minimum.

No souping forge worlds or lose imperatives.

Stratagems nerfed - 4+ auto wounds goes to 5+.

AP bonues do not stack. Max -1 AP from buffs/stratagems.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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