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Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I guess that depends on the rest of your list. What have you got?

Would using 3D printed arms and taking a Magaera be an option

I did pretty well in a tournament a few months ago running Magaeras
   
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Mira Mesa

 Suzuteo wrote:
On a side note, which solo Knight now? Thinking of pairing it with a Stygies horde.

Knight Crusader
-Rapid-fire Battle Cannon, Ironstorm Missile Pod
-WLT: Cold Eradication
-Relic: Endless Fury

Discovered that you cannot take Relentless Wrath in a SHAD because you do not have a House Raven Warlord while mustering the army. (The timing of the Exalted Court stratagem is before the first round.) So this is the next best thing IMO.

Knight Castellan
-2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon, 1x2 Shieldbreaker Missile
-WLT: Ion Bulwark
-Relic: Cawl's Wrath

Ion Bulwark because I'm not made out of CP. (Using Order of Companions more than once hurts enough.) My only great fear with a Castellan is that he won't be as useful against a horde list.
Yeah, it depends on the rest of the AdMech list. However, the math on the Rapid-fire Battle Cannon is god awful. I went and found my math on all the guns from... 15 months ago.
Spoiler:
kills vs hordes (10+ models 1W sv5+): Battlecannon (6.7) >= Avenger = Las (T3 6.7 or T4 5.4) > Thermal (3.3)

wounds vs T4 W2 3+: Avenger (7.2) > Battlecannon (3.5) > Thermal (3.2) > Las (2.8)

wounds vs T8 3+: Thermal (7.1 at 18" or 5.5 at 36" ) > Las (5.5) > Battlecannon = Avenger (3.5)
The only reason you'd take the Battlecannon is to target Lucius Skitarii specifically (or to take one of the good relic replacements). The Battlecannon is bad against everything but light infantry, and in that case it's overpriced. If you just want an Avenger, you can save 75 points taking a Warden. Otherwise 35 points for a Thermal Cannon over a chainsword is a bargain. Plus, all Knights come with a Battlecannon built in (their feet), and even then the feet always get 12 attacks instead of 2d6!

Cold Eradication really only has a spot with a Thermal Cannon. The top picks are usually Ion Bulwark first, then First Knight (Krast), Paragon of the Omnissiah/Blessed by Metalica, and Cunning Commander. Landstrider is useful for particular strategies, like House Raven or Knight Gallants with Full Tilt.

Endless Fury is a good pick for a relic if you need anti-MEQ, and provides essentially 50% more Avenger damage. Most of the weapon relics are fine, but Knights don't really lack damage. Therefore, the top picks are usually Armor of Sainted Ion and Sanctuary.

My thinking is that AdMech are pretty weak against T8. We've only got Lascannons, and they're stretched thin being our sole anti-tank. An Errant or a Crusader's Thermal Cannon go a long way to fixing that. In that case, House Raven stands out due to Fury of the Keep and Lockstep Advance to juice damage. The relic is a 57% damage increase at range, and the strat is a further 28%, to average 11 damage before invul. Slap on Ion Bulwark and you have a build.

On the other hand, the Castellan is not something you casually incorporate. Of course it demands Ion Bulwark, and Cawl's Wrath is extremely strong. The real trouble for list building is House Raven's Order of Companions is like a 60% damage increase across the board. It's probably the most efficient use of CP in the game. You'd need to have a really specific and important reason to take otherwise. Amusingly, the Castellan does not benefit very much from Canticles so the Raven + Metalica synergy isn't a consideration.



Having said all that, yeah, I think a Castellan is probably the best pick. If you want to go insanely competitive, I think just a Lucius Skitarii carpet with a single Castellan instead of any other vehicles would ruin opponents. There are no weak spots in the list, no easy place for guns to go.

   
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@DarkHound
You're right. A vanilla RFBC sucks. For a Crusader, Thermal Cannon is probably the way to go.

I actually think Lucius is a bit overrated now that the dogma does not stack with cover. People are sleeping on how good Stygies is. Especially Veiled Hunter and its ability to hide two units of Las Chickens or Grav Destroyers. Mars is also really strong (due to Wrath spam mostly).

On that note, I was wondering what to pair with a Knight, and I think the three-legged stool looks like this:

1. Knight Castellan or Crusader
2. Skitarii Horde: ~60 Rangers and Vanguard, 10-20 Sicarians, 9-10 Raiders
3. 2x5 Grav Destroyers

Grav Destroyers are interesting because they fill the gap between Skitarii and the Knight and are superior as a strike package type of unit. Volume AP3 fire is as good as it is rare these days. Their blind spot are T6+ multi-wound enemies with a poor save. So, Raiders. But a Knight just absolutely wrecks those. The Skitarii and Sicarians are good at holding ground and playing objectives, not to mention screening out enemies.

(Though if I were to specialize just for the mirror, probably just bring the Skitarii carpet, like you said. 2x20 Rangers and 4x20 Vanguard or something. Maybe some Las Chickens for redundancy as well.)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/19 10:55:47


 
   
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A garden grove on Citadel Station

 Suzuteo wrote:
Discovered that you cannot take Relentless Wrath in a SHAD because you do not have a House Raven Warlord while mustering the army. (The timing of the Exalted Court stratagem is before the first round.) So this is the next best thing IMO.

Knight Castellan
-2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon, 1x2 Shieldbreaker Missile
-WLT: Ion Bulwark
-Relic: Cawl's Wrath

Ion Bulwark because I'm not made out of CP. (Using Order of Companions more than once hurts enough.) My only great fear with a Castellan is that he won't be as useful against a horde list.
Oh, dang. So I guess you can't exalted court and then Headsman's Mark on a Krast knight either.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
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When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
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Mira Mesa

ph34r wrote:
 Suzuteo wrote:
Discovered that you cannot take Relentless Wrath in a SHAD because you do not have a House Raven Warlord while mustering the army. (The timing of the Exalted Court stratagem is before the first round.)
Oh, dang. So I guess you can't exalted court and then Headsman's Mark on a Krast knight either.
I disagree with this reading. The regular relics also require you have an Imperial Knights Character as your Warlord, but we agree implicitly that Heirlooms of the Household ignores that restriction despite not mentioning it. If the phrase "can have one Heirloom of the Noble Houses" ignores "If your army is led by an IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Warlord", then why wouldn't it ignore "If your army is led by a HOUSE RAVEN WARLORD"? Otherwise, absolutely rules-as-written, you can't give Relics with the strat unless your Warlord is a Knight. But nobody's ever played it that way.

Granted, I made a similar argument with the original Holy Orders back before they got FAQ restricted to "your real Warlord only". GW's justification then broke the language of every WLT stratagem, so they could arbitrarily FAQ any way they want. But they haven't yet.

Suzuteo wrote:Grav Destroyers are interesting because they fill the gap between Skitarii and the Knight and are superior as a strike package type of unit. Volume AP3 fire is as good as it is rare these days. Their blind spot are T6+ multi-wound enemies with a poor save. So, Raiders. But a Knight just absolutely wrecks those. The Skitarii and Sicarians are good at holding ground and playing objectives, not to mention screening out enemies.

(Though if I were to specialize just for the mirror, probably just bring the Skitarii carpet, like you said. 2x20 Rangers and 4x20 Vanguard or something. Maybe some Las Chickens for redundancy as well.)
Mm, I think that messes up the target de-saturation. It makes sense if you're running a Crusader, which can't be your sole anti-tank. Then you still need some chickens, and at that point put anything else in. That being said, I'm not sure we need Grav weapons in particular. Rangers are just fine against MEQ.

With just a Castellan and a horde of infantry, the mid strength multi-damage weapons have no where to go. You can easily field 60 Skitarii, 3x3 Raiders, and about 20 Ruststalkers. Or if you really want to starve their mid strength weapons, go pure Skitarii with no multi-wound models. The real trick is, like we theory crafted before, in some match-ups you'd need to reserve the Castellan to avoid a coin flip loss if they have enough alpha-strike.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/19 19:04:32


   
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 DarkHound wrote:
ph34r wrote:
 Suzuteo wrote:
Discovered that you cannot take Relentless Wrath in a SHAD because you do not have a House Raven Warlord while mustering the army. (The timing of the Exalted Court stratagem is before the first round.)
Oh, dang. So I guess you can't exalted court and then Headsman's Mark on a Krast knight either.
I disagree with this reading. The regular relics also require you have an Imperial Knights Character as your Warlord, but we agree implicitly that Heirlooms of the Household ignores that restriction despite not mentioning it. If the phrase "can have one Heirloom of the Noble Houses" ignores "If your army is led by an IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Warlord", then why wouldn't it ignore "If your army is led by a HOUSE RAVEN WARLORD"? Otherwise, absolutely rules-as-written, you can't give Relics with the strat unless your Warlord is a Knight. But nobody's ever played it that way.

You can take Headsman's Mark if you use Exalted Court first; normal Heirlooms require you to have a Metalica Warlord "before the battle." The problem is just for the Metalica relics, which require you to have the Raven warlord when "mustering," which means while list-building.

EDIT: Now I can sorta see what you mean. I just reread my Metalica supplement and noticed that these relics are considered Heirlooms, so the stratagem works on them.

 DarkHound wrote:
With just a Castellan and a horde of infantry, the mid strength multi-damage weapons have no where to go. You can easily field 60 Skitarii, 3x3 Raiders, and about 20 Ruststalkers. Or if you really want to starve their mid strength weapons, go pure Skitarii with no multi-wound models. The real trick is, like we theory crafted before, in some match-ups you'd need to reserve the Castellan to avoid a coin flip loss if they have enough alpha-strike.

This is a fair point. Reserving a Castellan is a bit ridiculous though. But I guess the idea of the high-low mix is that any army that has enough anti-vehicle to kill the Castellan probably doesn't have enough to kill the horde.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/19 20:54:35


 
   
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Aspirant Tech-Adept






Unless it’s admech
   
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Mira Mesa

Actually, it should be particularly good against the typical Mars + Lucius tournament lists. They often have about 600 points invested in Laschickens and anti-tank, which are almost useless against the horde. By reserving the Castellan, you're playing basically a mirror match for one or two turns. Then the Castellan shows up and glasses the opposition and reigns unopposed for the rest of the game.

I'm also not sure they have the same luxury of reserving their alpha strike to counter attack. If the Castellan comes in first, it can still vaporize a couple squads of Skitarii. It makes me think if alpha striking the Castellan is the right play often enough, then maybe you take Cold Eradication for a 28% damage bump and not worry about its survival beyond that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 02:59:38


   
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A garden grove on Citadel Station

Putting a Castellan into reserves does seem like a pretty cool way to avoid it getting alpha'd off the board, but 4 command points is a pretty real price. 28% increase from cold eradication, how much is that on top of using Order of Companions?

Are Castellans, overall, not nerfed into the ground any more? I had one when they were 605 points and 6 months later they were 700. Now that they are 635, are they reasonable?

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
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The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
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Mira Mesa

If you're bringing a Castellan, it's going to use all your command points. Order of Companions is an average 67% damage increase over all. With Cold Eradication, you could call it a 115% damage increase. At that point, the Volcano Cannon has an average 26 damage before invuls. Bear in mind, you can get the effect of Cold Eradication with the Raven strat Lockstep Advance for 3CP. You can just keep pouring CP into the Castellan and it will continue to get stronger.
Spoiler:
Plasma 5.216218
2 Siegebreakers 2.68
Volcano 11.6781
Shieldbreaker 1.57115
==21

Order of Companions:
Plasma 7.8775632
2 Siegebreakers 4.85576
Volcano 20.360106
Shieldbreaker 2.37276
==35.5
Castellans are tentatively good again. There have been several top 4 placements by Raven Castellans lately, both mixed and pure Knight. The most important part of their success is that the top armies (AdMech and DE) are bad against T8. If Space Marine Eradicators were ever meta again, the Castellan would be hard to justify. The worst match-up right now would probably be Sisters of Battle, but I have basically no experience playing against them to theorize anything. The trouble is that they're basically a glass cannon (if you could call any Knight that). They're only 2 wounds tougher than a Crusader or Magaera for 33% more points.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/09/22 14:50:13


   
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 DarkHound wrote:
The trouble is that they're basically a glass cannon (if you could call any Knight that). They're only 2 wounds tougher than a Crusader or Magaera for 33% more points.
Yeah, I definitely feel this. One of the main players in my group of friends almost always takes an eldar Scorpion superheavy grav tank, which can of course be put into cloudstrike reserves for something like 1 command point, and that is a concern for any knight I take.

Knight of the Iron Cog, from Metallica, that is essentially the same as regular Knight of the Cog, but you get canticles in return for having to be specifically Metallica and pay 1 command point?

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
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Mira Mesa

You're correct about Knights of the Iron Cog, with the caveat that it can affect all the Knights in a Super Heavy Detachment (paying 1CP each). Compared to Knights of the Cog which only affects one Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 06:28:09


   
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I think I need to play pure knights to refresh myself on why I love them.

Kudos to you hybrids making this work
   
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 DarkHound wrote:
Actually, it should be particularly good against the typical Mars + Lucius tournament lists. They often have about 600 points invested in Laschickens and anti-tank, which are almost useless against the horde. By reserving the Castellan, you're playing basically a mirror match for one or two turns. Then the Castellan shows up and glasses the opposition and reigns unopposed for the rest of the game.

I'm also not sure they have the same luxury of reserving their alpha strike to counter attack. If the Castellan comes in first, it can still vaporize a couple squads of Skitarii. It makes me think if alpha striking the Castellan is the right play often enough, then maybe you take Cold Eradication for a 28% damage bump and not worry about its survival beyond that.

But 4 CP. Oof. At least a Crusader is only 3 CP to reserve. And if we're bringing Stygies, it's 1 CP for Veiled Hunter to reserve two units of Chickens.
   
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I don't really like the castellan as an answer to admech specifically, if you reserve him the opposing chickens also just sit behind obscuring terrain and if your opponent doesnt have 630 points of chickens hes playing with more points than you while your cast and his chickens do nothing, then when the cast hits the board they just stay behind the obscuring terrain and shoot your cast with impunity because they can benefit from obscuring and the cast can't. He'll get to pick up a squad of something then get shot from behind obscuring till dead. Obv this is all terrain dependent
   
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Mira Mesa

The trouble with your analysis is that the game isn't decided by the Chickens vs Castellan shoot-out. It only matters in so far as you can affect the infantry actually scoring objectives. The chickens are extremely slow at killing infantry (about 1 per lascannon), and they can't fight in melee to help contest objectives, unlike the Castellan which kills 20 per turn.

It takes 8 chickens to kill a Castellan in one round, and they're usually taken in 6 or 9. If the Castellan can see even one squad, its Volcano Cannon alone kills 2 and essentially buys it an extra turn of shooting infantry. If the Chickens say 'screw it' and come forward to help kill the infantry, the Castellan can kill virtually all of them in one shooting phase. That leaves it the rest of the game to kill a block of infantry per turn. Therefore, the chickens have to hide far out of LoS from any table edge, which limits their ability to kill infantry early.

If the opponent has 6 chickens (which is the more common build), you just play conservatively on turn 1. On turn 2 the Castellan shows up and glasses a horde. On turn 3, it glasses another and you're comfortably ahead on bodies. The difference maker is that Chickens can't kill or contest infantry fast enough. You should score max primary on turns 4 and 5.

If the opponent does run the full 9 Chickens, you do the same thing, except the opponent has one less horde and the Castellan kills one less horde. You still end up ahead on bodies and scoring going into turns 4 and 5.

   
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@Gores
1. There is no way someone can hide 8-9 Chickens from an outflanking Castellan.
2. Nobody is bringing 8-9 Chickens at this point because they are too afraid to fall behind on infantry.

@DarkHound
3. I'm not sure if reserving the Castellan is worth it, even if they have 8-9 Chickens. I would just spend the CP on the infantry portion of my army, which is 2/3s of the army. Plus, it's 50/50 that I go first and get to wipe a block of infantry off the board. Two if the Chickens flub their rolls.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 11:45:38


 
   
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 Suzuteo wrote:
@DarkHound
You're right. A vanilla RFBC sucks. For a Crusader, Thermal Cannon is probably the way to go.

I actually think Lucius is a bit overrated now that the dogma does not stack with cover. People are sleeping on how good Stygies is. Especially Veiled Hunter and its ability to hide two units of Las Chickens or Grav Destroyers. Mars is also really strong (due to Wrath spam mostly).

On that note, I was wondering what to pair with a Knight, and I think the three-legged stool looks like this:

1. Knight Castellan or Crusader
2. Skitarii Horde: ~60 Rangers and Vanguard, 10-20 Sicarians, 9-10 Raiders
3. 2x5 Grav Destroyers

Grav Destroyers are interesting because they fill the gap between Skitarii and the Knight and are superior as a strike package type of unit. Volume AP3 fire is as good as it is rare these days. Their blind spot are T6+ multi-wound enemies with a poor save. So, Raiders. But a Knight just absolutely wrecks those. The Skitarii and Sicarians are good at holding ground and playing objectives, not to mention screening out enemies.

(Though if I were to specialize just for the mirror, probably just bring the Skitarii carpet, like you said. 2x20 Rangers and 4x20 Vanguard or something. Maybe some Las Chickens for redundancy as well.)


I like the thinking on Stygies. Gives the Skitarri portion of the list a little staying power as well as some movement shenanigans. Going to try the following this week.

Spoiler:
Stygies VIII Battalion (-2 CP)

Manipulus Artisans, Veiled Hunter
Warlord

Marshal Exemplar’s Eternity, Firepoint Telemetry Cache
Mechanicus Locus (-1CP)

20x Rangers Omnispex

20x Vanguard Ominspex, Enhanced Data Tether

5x Vanguard

5x Vanguard

5x Vanguard

4x Servitors

5x Infiltrators Tasers/Flechette

5x Infiltrators Tasers/Flechette

5x Infiltrators Tasers/Flechette

10x Rusties Transonic Blades, Temporcopia
Artefactorum

10x Rusties Transonic Blades

9x Sydonian Rangers


House Raven Super Heavy Aux. Detachment (-3 CP)

Castellan Cawl’s Wrath, Ion Bulwark
Knight of the Cog, Hierloom (-1CP), Exalted (-1CP)


Thoughts? Thinking burn 2CP pre game to infiltrate the two squads of Rusties. Between the Infiltrators, Rusties and Raiders, should be able to pressure the mid-board and the opposing deployment zone pretty quickly.
   
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I have been doing a bit of testing. Right now, I think Mars + Raven is the more consistent list:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1395

HQ - 245
Skitarii Marshal - Warlord: Firepoint Telemetry Cache, Exemplar's Eternity
Tech-Priest Manipulus - Logi (35)
Tech-Priest Manipulus - Artisan (25)

Troop - 630
20x Skitarii Ranger - Omnispex, Enhanced Data-tether, Battle-Sphere Uplink (-1 CP)
20x Skitarii Vanguard - Omnispex, Enhanced Data-tether
20x Skitarii Vanguard - Omnispex, Enhanced Data-tether
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard

Elite - 340
10x Sicarian Ruststalkers - Transonic Blades, Temporcopia (-1 CP)
5x Sicarian Infiltrators - Flechette Blaster, Taser Goad
5x Sicarian Infiltrators - Flechette Blaster, Taser Goad

Fast Attack - 149
9x Serberys Raiders - Enhanced Data-tether

Raven Super-Heavy Auxiliary - 635 (-1 CP)

1x Knight Castellan - Ion Bulwark (-1 CP), Cawl's Wrath (-1 CP)

Total: 1999 points
7 CP

I am still trying to figure out Stygies. But I think a Stygies list would want:
1. Raven Crusader or Warden, since the starting CP is even lower than you would see with a Mars + Raven. Maybe even a Krast Magaera.
2. 2x3 Las Chickens, which can be placed in reserve with Veiled Hunter.
3. Multiple Skitarii units, maybe 10x Vanguard units with Omnispexes. They're surprisingly resilient with Dense Cover. (Reminds me of Lucius hordes a few months ago.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/26 01:16:57


 
   
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So, I have friend that plays mostly drucharii covens, I've no idea whathe's actually playing but I thought i'd check what I might be up against....So Prophets of Flesh. Thats for real right? They intentionally gave the entire army free transhuman and all their important stuff gets a free wound heal once per turn as well? And people are still pointign the finger at us...like wow. They could give us back all the stuff thats been nerfed since 9th and it not even come close to free army wide transhuman lol

Edit: Dont one of the ork factions get this as well, if memory serves?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 20:02:32


 
   
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In both cases it only works against S7 or less
   
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Twilight Pathways wrote:
In both cases it only works against S7 or less


Which is just about everything that isn't a lascannon or melta, 90% of all army factions weapons AND melee attacks are forced to wound on a 4+. Every weapon you'd want to shoot at anything that isn't a Raider or Talos can only wound on a 4+. I know they're supposed to be somewhat durable, but they already have 6++/5+++ and are as tough as marines. At least their regular saves are crap so rangers with a manipulus will force save on the obsec stuff. But Talos....those things are gonna be tough to take down.

I guess we throw Ruststalkers, maybe robots, priests and bombs at everything, again. Or we're just expected to blanket everything with a crapload of shots again and rely on the numbers to get failed saves and fnps, which is really getting to be a tiresome 'tactic' it was boring with robots it's still boring now. The RNG should be a mitigating factor, not a mechanic we rely on. I suppose I should be grateful we actually have the tools to deal with it this time around instead of it just being a hard counter. Just irks me all the hate we get when stuff like that is ignored. Maybe its not as big a deal as I think but I know for sure its a huge deal when we do it to a single T3 unit with Lucius so having a whole army like that, for free, with no thought involved. Tactics are out the window there.
   
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UK

Is there no love for Sacrified Weaponary with Rad-Saturated forge worlds?

A nunch of Str 4/5 AP-1/-2 radium carbines at 8ppm.

Seems really good? Folk don't seem to go for it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
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Razerous wrote:
Is there no love for Sacrified Weaponary with Rad-Saturated forge worlds?

A nunch of Str 4/5 AP-1/-2 radium carbines at 8ppm.

Seems really good? Folk don't seem to go for it.


Its mainly because most of our army-power comes from the relics, wlt and strategms of the main forgeworlds. The Dogmas are nice and helpful but mostly just icing of Forgeworld-specific cakey goodness. The ones that do work are when you have a bunch of stuff that doesn't benefit all that much or ising going to be using the FW specific stuff. Like a data-hoard servo focused auguries detachment full of chickens and stratoraptors for instance. Our troops need quite a lot of support, so if you put them in a specific detachment to benefit from custom fw traits you lose the ability to buff them, and if you make it your main detachment you lose all the buffs.

The main issue with the custom forgworlds is that they dont come with their own set of custom relics, wlts and strategms and the basic ones aren't good enough and/or don't support the custom FW playstyles enough to warrant losing access to the main FW ones. The best of our FW are when the dogma, relic, wlt and strategm are all themed and work together to support a certain playstyle. Its why Mars (reliable quality shooting + canticles), Metallica (high mobility debuffs) and Lucius (high flexibility and resilience) are so popular everything works well together. The custom forgeworlds are very niche in their function and only really work as secondary detachments for units that dont benefit from a main FW but specifically benefit from the custom fw.

Scarifying weaponry in particular can be done in Metallica with a master anhiliator warlord manipulus if it was a key part of your strategy, and that also allows your vanguard to advance and fire at no penalty AND auto advance 6". You cant do it to a whole bunch of units like the custom fw, but you also then dont get the mobility you get from Metallica and you dont really need that many Vanguard units imo. They're only one more shot than rangers, which you can get from a strategm anyway, so the targets for our Vanguard are those with high T and good invulns that rangers struggle to wound.
   
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UK

I see that reasoning as being counter intuitive as you're advocating the use of a WLT to replicate a free detachment wide benefit, whilst suggesting the FW options instead.

The options are either WoM (which is insanely good, plan on using it), and anything Lucian (Trait, relic, WLT). Also the non-locked options seem plenty good?

My thoughts is that the 18" range of Vanguard could be too small, hence why you see massed blocks of Rangers? That firepower though, do some heavy lifting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Razerous wrote:
I see that reasoning as being counter intuitive as you're advocating the use of a WLT to replicate a free detachment wide benefit, whilst suggesting the FW options instead.

The options are either WoM (which is insanely good, plan on using it), and anything Lucian (Trait, relic, WLT). Also the non-locked options seem plenty good?

My thoughts is that the 18" range of Vanguard could be too small, hence why you see massed blocks of Rangers? That firepower though, do some heavy lifting.


Did I? Maybe i'm not explaiing myself well enough. What I mean is that most of the bonuses from custom FW have better versions from wlt, relics and holy orders and you generally dont need them army wide as only a few units benefit from the custom ones. Whereas the named FW tend to have a more cohesive structure to the dogma/relic/wlt combinations. For example the expansionist FW gives +1 ap in melee when you charge and heavy weapons can be fired without penalty when moving. But assault weapons still have that penalty for advancing unless they're on a vehicle. Whereas the Metallica FW allows all units to advance and fire assault at no penalty and move and fire all heavy weapons without penalty. There are other less reliable ways to improve melee AP, but generally the units that you actually want to buff for fighting already have good ap (Ruststalkers, Infiltrators, Fulgurites, Robots) and the ones that would benefit from more ap after charging you generally won't be charging with (Sterylizors, Raiders, Corpuscarii)

So there are some very niche benefits for the custom FW, but are often more of a flavour preference than a competitive edge and losing access to the main FW wlt and relics rarely makes competitive sense and can often be overcome using a strategm or something for the rare occasion you actually need a buff on a specific unit.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




So I've been having some issues up against IF marines and occasionally DE where I can't seem to damage his units while my own drop like flies. I'm certain I'm just doing something wrong but was hoping you guys could give some of your thoughts on what I'm thinking of using.
Spoiler:

Lucius Battalion Detachment - 1500

HQ - 150
Skitarii Marshal - Exemplar's Eternity
Tech Priest Manipulus - Logi, The Solar Flare, Luminescent Blessings

Troops - 540
20x Skitarii Rangers - Omnispex, Enhanced Data-tether, Battle-Sphere Uplink
20x Skitarii Rangers - Omnispex, Enhanced Data-tether
10x Skitarii Vanguard
10x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard

Elites - 170
10x Sicarian Rustalkers - Transonic Blades, Temporcopia

Fast Attack - 640
3x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Lascannon
3x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Lascannon
10x Pteraxii Sterylizors

Total: 1500 Points
9 CP


The general plan for secondaries is take ROD and Eradication of Flesh with the third still undecided (Possibly Engage on all Fronts).

   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Your list looks solid, nothing out of place. You should try to take Firepoint Telemetry, even though you're Lucius, for the extra +1sv when on terrain.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that you're committing to moving forward too early. A lot of inexperienced players feel like if they aren't moving forward, they're making a mistake by wasting time. You have time to get capped scores, even if you only start scoring on turn 3. Instead, those players come forward and their army can't attack ideal targets, therefore it fights inefficiently. Their forces are now in range of the enemy, who can bring their whole army forward and fight the right targets at full efficiency. Thus, you end up on losing trades.

Make sure your opponent can't attack their preferred targets and wait, even at the expense of some primary scoring. Practice timing your counter-attacks around the arrival of your reinforcements on turn 2. You can reserve 2x10 Vanguard for 1 CP, potentially use Circuitous Assassins on the Ruststalkers for another, and Deepstrike the Sterylizors. Then you only have to hide the two units of Rangers, and keep the Ironstriders far in the back. With the addition of Solar Flare, you should have all the ability in the world to alpha strike your opponent on turn 2.

Once you've sprung your trap, target the enemy units that would retaliate against your infantry. Again, you don't need to be ahead on points the entire game, you have time to cap your scores later (if you plan for it). Skitarii hordes win attrition matches with a decisive opening salvo that cripples their opponent's ability to kill infantry fast enough.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I'm actually just ending up with too much on the table and unable to hide everything. The lady game I did I had lost 2 units before my turn 1.

Hiding half the units off table sounds like the plan. His turn one is usually the worst part to deal with.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Ah, yup, the same consequence and solution. Yeah, I started playing pure Craftworld Eldar for my local league the past couple months (second place!) and it reinforced my views on patience and reserves. I'm playing my AdMech again to practice for the league start next week. I play Metalica with House Raven Knights, so I've got similar mobility to my Eldar, but the power difference is night and day.

With the Eldar, I use reserves, LoS ignoring weapons, and Fire and Fade to poke and prod. With careful positioning, I can kill enough and avoid any retaliation. Then I can commit and start winning on turn 3. With my AdMech, everything coming in on turn 2 and getting their ideal targets is backbreaking and the opponent's usually near-tabled on turn 3.

In some match-ups, I'm spending 4 CP to reserve my Knight Crusader and my infantry. It honestly makes me reconsider Fusilaves since I can't hide them, and they can't bomb from reserve. But in practice, really only Mars Laschickens can deal with them, so eh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/16 18:35:25


   
 
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