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Nerivant wrote:
Oh, so only the Imperium fans are allowed to chime in on a Tau vs. Imperium debate?

No, for this debate we need Chaos, Necron, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork and Tyranid players to caste their vote...
Imperium and Tau - ASIDE...

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

BaronIveagh wrote:
It's who shoots first. One on one, the Termiantor's have better armor, the crisis suit has a larger variety of armor piercing weaponry.

Hellfire missiles, Assault cannon...
Not to mention thunder hammer, personal teleporter and dual lightning claws...

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

No, it is Stronger, mightier, more graceful (their flight is always described as graceful in the fluff), flying, well protected, ejector equipped, self-destruct capable suit that the Imperials could nerver hope to match.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
It's who shoots first. One on one, the Termiantor's have better armor, the crisis suit has a larger variety of armor piercing weaponry.

Hellfire missiles, Assault cannon...
Not to mention thunder hammer, personal teleporter and dual lightning claws...

Fusion blaster/ Plasma rifle/ SMS/ Failsafe detonator /Missile Pod /Burst cannon/flamer/CIB./AFP/drones

im2randomghgh wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

No, it is Stronger, mightier, more graceful (their flight is always described as graceful in the fluff), flying, well protected, ejector equipped, self-destruct capable suit that the Imperials could nerver hope to match.

You can't use language like that to counter a reasoned argument. Mightier? In what respect? Stronger? In what way? Graceful? So what? What advantage does a self-destruct have when defeating an enemy? You're dead, therefore it offers no advantage.

The Imperium could easily match and exceed the Tau, the Mechanicum are EXPERTS, much better with technology that the Tau. Their problem is that they don't want to advance. They want to hoard technology simply so they can have it, like a child. There's too much ritualistic mumbo-jumbo with technology in the Imperium. It is 'holy' and they think they can't tamper with it which puts them at a major disadvantage.

iproxtaco wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

No, it is Stronger, mightier, more graceful (their flight is always described as graceful in the fluff), flying, well protected, ejector equipped, self-destruct capable suit that the Imperials could nerver hope to match.

You can't use language like that to counter. Mightier? In what respect? Stronger? In what way? Graceful? So what? The Imperium could easily match and exceed the Tau, the Mechanicum are EXPERTS, much better with technology that the Tau. Their problem is that they don't want to advance. They want to hoard technology simply so they can have it, like a child. Theirs too much ritualistic mumbo-jumbo with technology in the Imperium. It is 'holy' and they think they can't tamper with it which puts them at a major disadvantage.

Did you just give a pro-imperial argument about grace? Storm-ravens are freaking toasters with wings!

No. I made the point that grace has no relevance

Again, SO WHAT? It isn't streamlined, it still flies and the design is clearly good (in concept, model is meh). Just because the flight of a Crisis suit is described as 'graceful', doesn't mean it can't be destroyed by some Hellfire Missiles.

Thanks for not actually countering any other point I made, clearly you agree with me.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

Um... you need to put the obscura pipe down if you think the lasgun is self repairing.

Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

"Many utilize technologies unknown to the tech-priests of the Adeptus Machanicus, and to the order's horror, the tau are continuously refining their advancements in an effort to make them lighter, smaller, and more deadly'. Deathwatch Core book, pg 366.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

...Just like the XV88/Xv8 w/iridium plates/XV8-9. They all have equal/better armour than termies, and there isn't a single bloody terminator weapon that can hold a candle to a tl railgun.

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

Kan, other then the parts were you agreed with me, what bearing does this have on Postumous' assertions that any tau powered armor is slower, clumsier, and generally inferior in all possible ways to Imperial tech in general and the Terminator in particular?

Also, XV22 and XV9 armour are even more high tech, and surpass imperial equipment by an even greater margin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, phased ion guns and fusion cascades are amazing.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

Kan, other then the parts were you agreed with me, what bearing does this have on Postumous' assertions that any tau powered armor is slower, clumsier, and generally inferior in all possible ways to Imperial tech in general and the Terminator in particular?

I didn't realize he was comparing Terminator Armor to Crisis Suits.
Crisis Suits are more akin to standard Astartes Power Armor, and the Imperium definitely has them beat in that respect.

im2randomghgh--
And yet, there's a reason Terminators don't have anything that can "hold a candle to TL railguns".

They. Do. Not. Need. Them.
If a Terminator gets up close to a tank, that tank is boned.
If a Terminator closes the gap with a Broadside Battlesuit, an XV89, an XV22, or an XV9 'Hazard' Suit--those suits are boned.

It's amazing what happens when people sit down and think "Maybe there's a reason they don't need them".

But I guess not, since everyone has to have something that everyone else has.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

Kan, other then the parts were you agreed with me, what bearing does this have on Postumous' assertions that any tau powered armor is slower, clumsier, and generally inferior in all possible ways to Imperial tech in general and the Terminator in particular?

It's on foot speed is slower because it's very heavy but it uses a jump-pack for most of it's movement. Clumsier because it's bigger and more bulky, although it is not inferior to Imperial Tech. in all possible ways. The jump-pack alone gives it a lot more movement potential than a Terminator has.

In many respects the Tau out-class The Imperium as their scientists and engineers are willing and motivated to advance and adapt their technology. The Pulse rifle for example is a lot more destructive, shot for shot, and more accurate than a lasgun. However, many peoples assumption that Tau technology is so VASTLY superior to all Imperial technology is simply ignorance or wishful thinking.

Kanluwen wrote:

And yet, there's a reason Terminators don't have anything that can "hold a candle to TL railguns".

They. Do. Not. Need. Them.
If a Terminator gets up close to a tank, that tank is boned.
If a Terminator closes the gap with a Broadside Battlesuit, an XV89, an XV22, or an XV9 'Hazard' Suit--those suits are boned.

It's amazing what happens when people sit down and think "Maybe there's a reason they don't need them".

But I guess not, since everyone has to have something that everyone else has.

Which raises the question: 'Why not walk/drive away from the Terminator?' Since they can't run or dodge. Which means outside of a turn based table top game, they're useless against tanks or armored vehicles, since those tend to move at a fairly good clip in combat. Sure, if it's parked the Termi works well...

Given the Terminator's speed, the crisis suit would have to stand there and let them close.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

And yet, there's a reason Terminators don't have anything that can "hold a candle to TL railguns".

They. Do. Not. Need. Them.
If a Terminator gets up close to a tank, that tank is boned.
If a Terminator closes the gap with a Broadside Battlesuit, an XV89, an XV22, or an XV9 'Hazard' Suit--those suits are boned.

It's amazing what happens when people sit down and think "Maybe there's a reason they don't need them".

But I guess not, since everyone has to have something that everyone else has.

Which raises the question: 'Why not walk/drive away from the Terminator?' Since they can't run or dodge. Which means outside of a turn based table top game, they're useless against tanks or armored vehicles, since those tend to move at a fairly good clip in combat. Sure, if it's parked the Termi works well...

Well to be fair, in-game there's a 'limit' for teleportation and drop podding that the fluff doesn't have.

In fluff, teleporting right into the thick of things or drop pods coming down 'danger close' are commonplace for Astartes actions. It's part of their hallmark.

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Actually, the tau crisis suit is much more nimble then the Terminator suit, has superior firepower, superior ammunition storage, is faster, and lacks the penalties to dexterity that the Termiator armor suffers from. The Terminator offers superior protection, but at the cost of being a standing target.

Of course the Tau 'Crisis Suit' is much more nimble than the Terminator suit and has superior firepower.

Terminator armor wasn't made to be dextrous or nimble. It's meant to be walking into the bloody thick of it, swinging a weapon in one hand and firing a storm bolter or heavy flamer or assault cannon in the other. It was made for boarding actions or breaking down walls of buildings to get at the squishy heretics inside.
It comes down to different methods of war and roles. Crisis Suits are made to be fast-moving support assets, continually on the move and supporting where they're strategically needed.

Terminators are meant to be delivered in a Drop Pod, Teleport Assault, or from an assault vehicle like a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader right to where the biggest point of resistance is so they can bludgeon it over the head till it pops.

And that's despite the tau suit being bulkier.

The Crisis Suit is 'bulkier' in that it's bigger. It has a lot of unarmored spots(shins and head immediately come to mind) while the Terminator armor is practically a walking sheet of armor.

Kan, other then the parts were you agreed with me, what bearing does this have on Postumous' assertions that any tau powered armor is slower, clumsier, and generally inferior in all possible ways to Imperial tech in general and the Terminator in particular?

I didn't realize he was comparing Terminator Armor to Crisis Suits.
Crisis Suits are more akin to standard Astartes Power Armor, and the Imperium definitely has them beat in that respect.

im2randomghgh--
And yet, there's a reason Terminators don't have anything that can "hold a candle to TL railguns".

They. Do. Not. Need. Them.
If a Terminator gets up close to a tank, that tank is boned.
If a Terminator closes the gap with a Broadside Battlesuit, an XV89, an XV22, or an XV9 'Hazard' Suit--those suits are boned.

It's amazing what happens when people sit down and think "Maybe there's a reason they don't need them".

But I guess not, since everyone has to have something that everyone else has.

Well the only user of the XV22 is a special character who could smash a terminators face in so that is moot, although it's mostly BECAUSE she is a special character.

And that's why you take shield drones. They are in the front, take the assault, then your XV9s with their VRT jump pack and rape the terminators with two D3 melta attacks, or 8 str4 ap4 rending shots, or six re-rollable str5 shots.

XV9s smash face. Anyone got the IA-AII in front of them? read it and be jealous *smirks*

But seriously, the FW battlesuits are too good for most games, so people don't usually let me use them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

And yet, there's a reason Terminators don't have anything that can "hold a candle to TL railguns".

They. Do. Not. Need. Them.
If a Terminator gets up close to a tank, that tank is boned.
If a Terminator closes the gap with a Broadside Battlesuit, an XV89, an XV22, or an XV9 'Hazard' Suit--those suits are boned.

It's amazing what happens when people sit down and think "Maybe there's a reason they don't need them".

But I guess not, since everyone has to have something that everyone else has.

Which raises the question: 'Why not walk/drive away from the Terminator?' Since they can't run or dodge. Which means outside of a turn based table top game, they're useless against tanks or armored vehicles, since those tend to move at a fairly good clip in combat. Sure, if it's parked the Termi works well...

Well to be fair, in-game there's a 'limit' for teleportation and drop podding that the fluff doesn't have.

In fluff, teleporting right into the thick of things or drop pods coming down 'danger close' are commonplace for Astartes actions. It's part of their hallmark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLZqDXau98

And here's me thinking we were talking FLUFF wise, when some guy comes along with no FLUFF based argument and uses IN-GAME rules to try and counter THE FLUFF. No matter how many times we talk about how the game is BALANCED, some people will never learn.

Kanluwen wrote:
Well to be fair, in-game there's a 'limit' for teleportation and drop podding that the fluff doesn't have.

In fluff, teleporting right into the thick of things or drop pods coming down 'danger close' are commonplace for Astartes actions. It's part of their hallmark.

Yeah, but that's just it, neither of those things are something you wouldn't notice, probably even inside a tank (due to Imperial teleporters effects on everyone standing around the area). Drop pods tend to be quite visible, and without a teleport homer you only appear in the general vicinity, even in fluff. This means that the terminator that can't move beyond a walk has to close with the speeding vehicle. Even a Leman Russ can hit 30kmph maneuvering in terrain, and a hover tank like a Hammerhead can hit 70 kmph.

It's just one of those things that's never made sense about 40k's fetish for melee weapons. A power fist would be next to useless, as you'd never get close enough to hit.

iproxtaco wrote:And here's me thinking we were talking FLUFF wise, when some guy comes along with no FLUFF based argument and uses IN-GAME rules to try and counter THE FLUFF. No matter how many times we talk about how the game is BALANCED, some people will never learn.

I used in-game stuff since XV9s are rarely (if ever) mentioned in fluff.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Well to be fair, in-game there's a 'limit' for teleportation and drop podding that the fluff doesn't have.

In fluff, teleporting right into the thick of things or drop pods coming down 'danger close' are commonplace for Astartes actions. It's part of their hallmark.

Yeah, but that's just it, neither of those things are something you wouldn't notice, probably even inside a tank (due to Imperial teleporters effects on everyone standing around the area). Drop pods tend to be quite visible, and without a teleport homer you only appear in the general vicinity, even in fluff. This means that the terminator that can't move beyond a walk has to close with the speeding vehicle. Even a Leman Russ can hit 30kmph maneuvering in terrain, and a hover tank like a Hammerhead can hit 70 kmph.

Drop Pods tend to be quite visible...if they're just coming out of the blue.

Drop Pods in the middle of combat? I don't think too many people are going to be noticing it overall.
And even more: Imperial teleporters won't really be that noticeable until they actually go off. That massive *whoomf* of displaced air only happens after the teleportation occurs.

It's just one of those things that's never made sense about 40k's fetish for melee weapons. A power fist would be next to useless, as you'd never get close enough to hit.

Maybe, but that's why the Marines have these wonderful delivery systems like the Land Raider Crusader.

iproxtaco wrote:And here's me thinking we were talking FLUFF wise, when some guy comes along with no FLUFF based argument and uses IN-GAME rules to try and counter THE FLUFF. No matter how many times we talk about how the game is BALANCED, some people will never learn.

In fluff crisis suits bounce around at high speed in urban environments doing pop ups. Three of them and a hammerhead annihilate a force that had and entire IG regiment pinned down during their combined operations on Galavrax.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

XV8s are the equivilant of Terminator armor for the Tau. the same goes for XV9s.

XV88s are more like artillery batteries.


the Suits themselves are viewed more like vehicles then suits of armor. as the Pilot controls the suit completely through a neural interface.


one drawback to the Tau's Neural interface units is that they cause mild psychological abnormalities in their pilots. they are often uneasy and off-kilter when out of their armor and veteran Battlesuit pilots are known to become extremely agressive when in their suits.

the Imperium's Neural Interfaces don't result in this dangerous mental destabilisation. the pilot is communing and becoming more like the machine god and such mental changes are to be expected, embraced, and desired. hence, it is nothing to fear, but the Tau have a dangerous situation. their battlesuit pilots could become little more then machines, enslaved to their suits. the Tau are on the verge of their own "War of the Iron Men"

Yeah, in fluff crisis suits are only marginally less powerful than dreadnoughts, and move faster than assault marines.

In IAIII I think it said they move at something like 55kph

Kanluwen wrote:
Drop Pods in the middle of combat? I don't think too many people are going to be noticing it overall.
And even more: Imperial teleporters won't really be that noticeable until they actually go off. That massive *whoomf* of displaced air only happens after the teleportation occurs.

Drop pods take 20 min from launch to dirt-side, and tend to leave big streaks of fire in the atmosphere due to reentry, even when breaking. They also are very, very loud.

Teleporters in fluff cause nausea and disorientation for about 20 yards around the point of arrival. According to the HH novels, some of them have a visible component as well.

And, frankly, unless the landraider Crusader is chasing after the tank with the terminators jumping from one speeding vehicle to the other, I don't see that making a difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
the Imperium's Neural Interfaces don't result in this dangerous mental destabilisation. the pilot is communing and becoming more like the machine god and such mental changes are to be expected, embraced, and desired. hence, it is nothing to fear, but the Tau have a dangerous situation. their battlesuit pilots could become little more then machines, enslaved to their suits. the Tau are on the verge of their own "War of the Iron Men"

You obviously have not read Abnett's Titan series. Let's just say that the Imperium's Neural linkage DOES have severe side effects, including withdrawl.

Grey Templar wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Crisis suits are 2.7 tonnes. They are much heavier than power armour, and are NOT made from the same material. In IAIII it said they're made of some unknown crystalline material.

They only reason that their armour isn't thick is because they need to be able to jump.

PA WITH an astartes in it is 1:2.7 the weight of a crisis suit=not as durable.
XV88=3.8 tonnes.

Occupied astartes armor weighs in at half a ton. Terminator armor weighs in at 1.5 tons.

So it's heavier, bulkier, clumsier, requires a massive jetpack to move at any reasonable rate, provides inferior protection, and yet is supposed to be more advanced? Imperial tech is all from a period of human history that makes the stagnating, slow to adapt Tau look like chimpanzees who've just discovered that a stick can be used to fish for termites. The lowest piece of Imperial technology is more advanced than anything the Tau will ever conceive of, considering that everything down the common lasgun has a "machine spirit" capable of self-repair if it's so much as asked nicely in the right language.

XV8s are the equivilant of Terminator armor for the Tau. the same goes for XV9s.

XV88s are more like artillery batteries.


the Suits themselves are viewed more like vehicles then suits of armor. as the Pilot controls the suit completely through a neural interface.


one drawback to the Tau's Neural interface units is that they cause mild psychological abnormalities in their pilots. they are often uneasy and off-kilter when out of their armor and veteran Battlesuit pilots are known to become extremely agressive when in their suits.

the Imperium's Neural Interfaces don't result in this dangerous mental destabilisation. the pilot is communing and becoming more like the machine god and such mental changes are to be expected, embraced, and desired. hence, it is nothing to fear, but the Tau have a dangerous situation. their battlesuit pilots could become little more then machines, enslaved to their suits. the Tau are on the verge of their own "War of the Iron Men"

No, Battlesuits arent Teqs, they are (in fluff) Dreadnought equivalents, and they stand 4m tall.

And that is because the Tau have no mechanicus, and unlike the IoM, do not put suit pilots in cryo between battles (dreadnought) and also, titan princeps experience something similar.

Where in the hell have Battlesuits ever been anything remotely close to Dreadnought equivalents other than you saying so?

They're Scout Sentinel equivalents at best.

BaronIveagh wrote:Drop pods take 20 min from launch to dirt-side, and tend to leave big streaks of fire in the atmosphere due to reentry, even when breaking. They also are very, very loud.

They're very very loud...but full scale combat is louder.

Teleporters in fluff cause nausea and disorientation for about 20 yards around the point of arrival. According to the HH novels, some of them have a visible component as well.

Teleporters in fluff do that...after they've been activated and the teleported unit has arrived.

And, frankly, unless the landraider Crusader is chasing after the tank with the terminators jumping from one speeding vehicle to the other, I don't see that making a difference.

You're misunderstanding the meaning behind that part.

That's a VERY wild statement to make. Give us any evidence to suggest that Crisis suits are ANYWHERE remotely close to a fething Dreadnought. That is the kind of ignorance or wishful thinking I was talking about.

Kanluwen wrote:
They're very very loud...but full scale combat is louder.

I'm familiar with how loud large numbers of men firing weapons at one another while artillery blasts away is. A drop pod would leave a huge contrail passing through the air, and make quite a sound. It's be quite noticeable.

Kanluwen wrote:
Teleporters in fluff do that...after they've been activated and the teleported unit has arrived.

No, even before the people being sent arrive the nausia and disorientation kick in. (Traitor's Hand gives the best example of this)

Kanluwen wrote:
You're misunderstanding the meaning behind that part.

Land Raider Crusader barely tops out at 40 kmph off road. Given it's anti-tank weapon is a multimelta, and very short ranged comapred to the over a kilometer that the hammerhead can engage at, I'm not seeing what you're driving at, unless you're using it with a teleport homer or something.


On Tau Crisis Suits vs Dreadnoughts: Only direct conflict between crisis suits I can find other then the plot armored Brother Tankred of the Black Templars comic books was Brother Caim of the Avenging Sons, who's Mk V dreadnought was destroyed at Taros.

BTW: I was not entirely correct on Mantas at the first Taros Incursion, one shuttled in reinforcements for the Tau, but did not take part in the battle directly.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
They're very very loud...but full scale combat is louder.

I'm familiar with how loud large numbers of men firing weapons at one another while artillery blasts away is. A drop pod would leave a huge contrail passing through the air, and make quite a sound. It's be quite noticeable.

And again: when everything's going on, I'm not sure how noticeable it would be. It's not like there's a great big blinking 'X' marking where it will land.

Kanluwen wrote:
Teleporters in fluff do that...after they've been activated and the teleported unit has arrived.

No, even before the people being sent arrive the nausea and disorientation kick in. (Traitor's Hand gives the best example of this)

Funny, because everywhere else has talked about how the only real hint of a teleport assault is that there's a kind of 'charge' in the air, with a hum and a bit of pressure equalization going on before the actual *WHUMPF* happens.

Kanluwen wrote:
You're misunderstanding the meaning behind that part.

Land Raider Crusader barely tops out at 40 kmph off road. Given it's anti-tank weapon is a multimelta, and very short ranged compared to the over a kilometer that the hammerhead can engage at, I'm not seeing what you're driving at, unless you're using it with a teleport homer or something.

Astartes using LRCs aren't going to be driving across a field at someone. They're usually employed during cityfights, where the LRC's short-ranged weaponry and reinforced hull come into handy and allow it to break through buildings letting for the Terminators within to assault defensive positions or dug-in vehicles.

Standard Land Raiders would normally be fielded when it's 'open field'.