Rumors for Chaos Space Marines - Upd 8/12/2012 in OP

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**Brother SRM**

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
Drop Pod Assault, which allows half of our Pods to arrive simultaneously.

Hate to break it to you dude, but all Marines get that, or at least vanilla ones do. Half of your drop pods (rounding up) come in on turn 1.

**Goresaw**

Brother SRM wrote:
Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
Drop Pod Assault, which allows half of our Pods to arrive simultaneously.

Hate to break it to you dude, but all Marines get that, or at least vanilla ones do. Half of your drop pods (rounding up) come in on turn 1.

BT's do have unique qualities regarding their drop pods. Its the fact they have power of the machine spirit, so they can use it to fire their drop pod's weapons the turn they come in. Its the old Power of the Machine spirit though, so its on +5 to hit. I know, I know, its completley OP and all BT players build their lists around it.

**unmercifulconker**

Pffft real Crusaders start from the table edge and charge to the other end.

**RiTides**

unmercifulconker wrote:Pffft real Crusaders start from the table edge and charge to the other end.

Exactly! Did this in 3rd ed, "falling forward" towards the enemy... unfortunately my gaming group didn't enjoy it as much as I did

**Puscifer**

Looks like I'm ok with just buying a Chaos army now and it's going to carry over well come the Codex.

One thing I want to say though, this looks to be quite balanced to an extent. We'll see evidence of the creep when it comes out, but it doesn't look too bad right now.

Do you suppose that the Daemon update is being released because of the Power they have now when combined with CSM?

**sennacherib**

Possibly why demons are getting some new minis.
i really hope that they try to mitigate codex creep. I would love it if they just kept all their codex on the same level roughly. but then WAAC gamers wouldnt rush out to buy the new latest army to win with at tournis and GW does not want to mitigate that.

**Sephyr**

Puscifer wrote:Looks like I'm ok with just buying a Chaos army now and it's going to carry over well come the Codex.

One thing I want to say though, this looks to be quite balanced to an extent. We'll see evidence of the creep when it comes out, but it doesn't look too bad right now.

Do you suppose that the Daemon update is being released because of the Power they have now when combined with CSM?

Space Wolves aside, I don't really see a bad history of cheesy powercreep in Kelly's books, if this is indeed his work. Im actually more concerned that CSM will be getting a good, solid codex that will soon be overshadowed by the next Ward gouda-fest.

**Puscifer**

Well thats the thing.

I quite liked the SW Codex. Not for it's cheese, but for it's amazing stories and descriptions of every unit. It is one of the best codexes.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Blood of Kittens wrote:–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

This is unfluffy for Iron Warriors and possibly Night Lords and Alpha Legion. But I this sounding a lot like Codex: Black Legion Warbanz 2.0 so I guess this is to be expected.

**Chrysis**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Blood of Kittens wrote:–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

This is unfluffy for Iron Warriors and possibly Night Lords and Alpha Legion. But I this sounding a lot like Codex: Black Legion Warbanz 2.0 so I guess this is to be expected.

And Thousand Sons, that's what the Rubrics are for.

**Puscifer**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Blood of Kittens wrote:–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

This is unfluffy for Iron Warriors and possibly Night Lords and Alpha Legion. But I this sounding a lot like Codex: Black Legion Warbanz 2.0 so I guess this is to be expected.

Really?

I always thought that Iron Warriors were full of pride and wouldn't back out as they would always want to beat and better their opponent.

Night Lords would only back down if they knew they would lose the challenge, but TBH, could you actually see someone like Talos or Decimus to turn down a challenge?

Alpha Legion, I'm not sure.

**Brother SRM**

Puscifer wrote:
Alpha Legion, I'm not sure.

If they lose the challenge, it was clearly part of their plan to lose all along!

**AlexHolker**

Puscifer wrote:I always thought that Iron Warriors were full of pride and wouldn't back out as they would always want to beat and better their opponent.

It's been quite a while since I read it, but wasn't that the Imperial Fists shtick, that the Iron Warriors exploited?

**pretre**

I agree with kroothawk on the split. This one is getting unwieldy. Can we get kroothawk's reopened and I'll scrub the daemon stuff out of this in the morning? (on my phone right now.)

**Puscifer**

AlexHolker wrote:
Puscifer wrote:I always thought that Iron Warriors were full of pride and wouldn't back out as they would always want to beat and better their opponent.

It's been quite a while since I read it, but wasn't that the Imperial Fists shtick, that the Iron Warriors exploited?

IMO, they are mirror images of each other.

- They both excel at Siege warfare.
- The Imperial Fists were full of pride of their abilities and their service to the Emperor and were actually respectful of their enemy until the Iron Cage incident. They never backed down from a challenge.
- The Iron Warriors were full of hate for their enemies and they disdained their service to the Emperor. They didn't back down from a fight as they just wanted to beat their opponent to prove they were better.

**Ma55ter_fett**

Prob gonna snag my brothers chaos stuff and start a death guard army.

**timetowaste85**

sennacherib wrote:Possibly why demons are getting some new minis.
i really hope that they try to mitigate codex creep. I would love it if they just kept all their codex on the same level roughly. but then WAAC gamers wouldnt rush out to buy the new latest army to win with at tournis and GW does not want to mitigate that.

Fantasy 8th has been VERY balanced so far-books that were more powerful are being weakened, weaker books are being improved. I'd expect 40k to follow the same trend. If GW does as well with 40k as they have with Fantasy, expect to be able to play whatever army you want, and your generalship will win you the game-not spammed units. Sure, there will be auto-include units like every book (mournfang cavalry, mangler squigs, wolf chariots, etc), but each book will be able to stand up evenly to all others of the 6th/8th edition sets. I think you'll be quite pleased.

**Puscifer**

My concern ATM is Necrons. They are amazingly powerful, with no distinct weaknesses.

I know this is a little off topic as this is the Chaos Rumor thread, but I just cannot see an army beating Necrons as it stands. But, as we all know, anything can change in the next codex.

**H.B.M.C.**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:This is unfluffy for Iron Warriors and possibly Night Lords and Alpha Legion. But I this sounding a lot like Codex: Black Legion Warbanz 2.0 so I guess this is to be expected.

Get with the program Doobie:

Loyalist Marines - Super-diverse and 100% need 6 separate Codices.
Traitor Marines - They are all the same.

**kenzosan**

I can make my Zombie army without playing Apoc? Oh frabjous day!

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Puscifer wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Blood of Kittens wrote:–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

This is unfluffy for Iron Warriors and possibly Night Lords and Alpha Legion. But I this sounding a lot like Codex: Black Legion Warbanz 2.0 so I guess this is to be expected.

Really?

I always thought that Iron Warriors were full of pride and wouldn't back out as they would always want to beat and better their opponent.

From the Black Library thread:

Spoiler:

Only two Iron Warriors came over the wall with him; Vortrax and Ushtor from the patterns on their helms and shoulder guards. Kroeger saw an Imperial Fists warrior turn towards them, a captain by the look of him. His face registered surprise, and he shouted a warning to another two Fists squatting in the midst of a company strength of frightened mortals.
'No helmet?' hissed Kroeger, aiming and firing in one fluid motion. 'Stupid.'
The captain went down, but Kroeger was irritated to see that his shot had merely grazed him. The other Imperial Fists rose to his defence, moving apart and firing at their attackers. The mortal soldiers loosed panicked shots at random.
Vortrax fell back against the ruined wall, his breastplate hammered by concentrated bolter fire. Spasming detonations and a crack of mashed bones told Kroeger the mass-reactives had pulped him inside his armour.
Ushtor traded shots with the Fists, but these warriors were too cool under fire to be caught out by such undisciplined salvoes. Kroeger took his time and pulled his gun hard into his shoulder. He sighed on the leftmost of the Imperial Fists and put two carefully placed shots though his helm. The warrior dropped instantly, the back of his head a hollowed out shell of dripping brain matter and scorched bone.
Where the mortal soldiers had turned their attention to the fighting on the ramparts, two Iron Warriors gained the wall. Bolter fire hammered the mortal soldiers, ripping arms from shoulders, torsos from legs like bodies caught in the flailing blades of a threshing machine. Their screams were pitiful, and Kroeger took little satisfaction in their meaningless deaths.
The Fists were the true prize here.
The fallen captain rose with a bared sword that blazed with a razor-edged golden light as he leapt towards the two Iron Warriors. First one, then the second died, carved up with powerful strokes aimed at the weakest points of their armour. The captain kicked them from the wall and turned to face Kroeger.
'Come at me and die, traitors!' he yelled, his face a mask of blood from where Kroeger's shot had torn a finger-deep furrow in his skull. Kroeger shook his head and and shot him twice in the chest.

Another unrelated observation: evidently you cannot take Thousand Sons as troops unless your army is led by a non-sorcerer or Ahriman (assuming, of course, that Ahriman allows rubrics as troops)?

**kenzosan**

Brother SRM wrote:
Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:
Drop Pod Assault, which allows half of our Pods to arrive simultaneously.

Hate to break it to you dude, but all Marines get that, or at least vanilla ones do. Half of your drop pods (rounding up) come in on turn 1.

As far as I know this is a rule on Drop Pods, not any chapter.

**sennacherib**

kenzosan wrote:I can make my Zombie army without playing Apoc? Oh frabjous day!

Seconded. If this proves to be true i am stoked as well.

**drbored**

Well, let's just hope that GW fudging the release means that we may get some leaks before they intend, so we can at least have SOMETHING to sink our teeth into. If all those Codices are in warehouses just waiting distribution for a good 6 weeks, surely someone's curiosity will get the better of them and they'll get a chance to snap a quick pic. That'd be nice.

Now it's just waiting for the White Dwarf leaks to see what the new Daemons look like. I'm excited for the new chariot model, though I'm sure it'll be a pain in the butt if one of them is a limited print. It all comes down to looks for me. If it's really awesome and Slaaneshy, then I'll just have to have it.

That's one thing I'm really hoping gets a boost in the CSM Codex: Noise Marines. I really hope Mark of Slaanesh and Icon of Slaanesh are more than just an initiative boost. I like the look of the weapons ignoring cover and being Salvo (not the best rule IMO, but hopefully the weapons will reflect something extra). It'd be great for Dirge Casters, Sonic Blasters, Blastmasters, and Doom Sirens to get some neat rules, and for the Noise Marines themselves to get a points drop. At 25 points per marine with Sonic Blaster, they get pretty prohibitive pretty quick, all for a higher Initiative and an extra bolter shot...

**VermGho5t**

This is worrisome, and pisses me off at the same time, that they don't have a solid release plan hashed out this late in the release cycle. I am probably more pissed because I was excited for new rules and models for the main army I play. Have they ever done this release schedule waffling gak in the past?

**Sharkvictim**

Just Dave wrote:I don't like the idea of Hatred vs Space Marines; surely Space Marines should have it vs Chaos Space Marines also?

Obviously game-wise, loyalists don't exactly need a boost, but it's fair and logical IMHO.

Theoretically speaking, Space Marines essentially have hatred in relation to everything, and thus hate nothing especially bad.
Y'know. Xenos this, Heretic that, yada yada yada...

**Gorechild**

I'm really liking the look of these rumours so far. As long as this dragon thing looks alright, theres nothing else that stands out as sounding bad. And after the last codex, any improvement on "bad" is a god send IMO!

If Jes is doing a new 'Thirster then I am annoyed I bought the old one a couple months ago though

**Pilau Rice**

Like what we have been given so far, looks to be quite interesting and no mention of take Slaanesh Lord to unlock Noise Marines. I hope this is the case.

Hopefully, Daemonic Possession will also grant a 5+ Inv, if it is still an upgrade.

**Claimh_Solais**

So is it only a wave of deamons are do the deamons get a new book too?

**Kroothawk**

The Daemon thread is reopened, so you might have a look there.
Short answer: No new Codex/Armybook, but a (last minute added) booklet/sheet coming with WD August with rule tweaks including a few new units, so coming close to a new Codex/armybook.