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I'd actually be pretty happy with Codex: Space Marines sticking around for a few more years. I like that codex an awful lot.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Electro wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Let's remember that GW doesn't make any more money by condesing things. Too many people have suggested this before for every other specialized Space Marine army. Can we finally agree this is not happening?

No, because for the last two editions out of 6 editions had the vanilla dex therefor it is a pattern and a fact, like the PA/non PA and Xeno/imperium pattern that people claim is a fact.

Apparently there is a world shortage of vanilla this year so maybe thats why they have gone for DA

Last two dex's? They had a vanilla dex in third edition too, though the 2nd was just called ultramarines, but the variants still used the stuff in it.

Sorry, I ment the last two editionsout of 6 editions have had the vanilla dex as the first codex... Although looking it up it was the first in 3rd too.

I don't think they are stopping C:SM at all. That would be a crazy thing to do. I just think people are putting too much stock in vague patterns to predict the future. They may as well be reading chicken guts or tea leaves IMO.

stickmonkey wrote:Sorry,
I have to step in. I thought this thread would die on its own, but it looks like its just taking on a life of its own.

No C: DA before 6th.

Apologies for letting everyone get revved up so long. But it's just not happening, and I can't sit idle and let everyone suffer.

My best guess is early to mid 2013. I don't see it any sooner.

That is sad news. I know a lot of DA players that really need a new 'dex.

darknightwing wrote:That is sad news. I know a lot of DA players that really need a new 'dex.

DA don't need a new dex. I am a DA player. Then again, I don't need the easy button to play with. Yes my record is perfect. All losses, but I still have fun and a blast. Also many DA players do really well, espically with the new FAQ for them.

Davor wrote:

darknightwing wrote:That is sad news. I know a lot of DA players that really need a new 'dex.

DA don't need a new dex. I am a DA player. Then again, I don't need the easy button to play with. Yes my record is perfect. All losses, but I still have fun and a blast. Also many DA players do really well, espically with the new FAQ for them.

I agree we don't need one, but it would be nice.

My Deathwing are undefeated, my 4th Company, not so much.

The main reason DA should get a new codex would be to get access to all the "new" toys like drop pods, land raiders and things.

To be honest i'm with most people when we say the fluff could pretty much stay the same.

We have drop pods, land raiders and things. While I hope we don't have to wait a year for our new codex, I am kinda glad we won't be the last codex of 5th edition and therefore get screwed by whatever the new paradigm of 6th edition is. Yeah, yeah, I know that the last codex is still designed with the new edition in mind. Tell that to the Daemon players.

leohart wrote:As a DA player, I would love to see them having a new book. However, a friend told me that either High Elves or Skaven do not get a new book despite making to the starter set.

That would sucks.

The Skaven book was only 2 books before 8th hit (Beastmen was the last 7th edition book, a couple months after Skaven). High Elves (I believe) were 2 books before Skaven. They were fairly new when 8th hit, just not BRAND new. DA and Chaos are both WWWWWWWWWWWWay old, compared to 6th hitting shelves. If they are both in the starter set, I'd say you can safely assume they'll both have new books. No, I don't know anything, this is just the drawing of conclusions. However, I did have a GW manager show me the WD spine when I asked if he knew about anything coming up and he asked what I thought it was-I said "Azrael" and he replied it was probably a good chance that the spine was a clue to what was coming next. Fact? No more than anything else on here. A piece of information to add to the rumor pile? Of course.

Pesonaly i think Stickmonkey is talking nonsense about no DA untill 2013. He may be right but without even a drop of reason, e.g. Chaos are next then no other codex, i don't belive it.

Having said that i do think he is right that it is not DA next now. The Chaos stuff has alot more detail and i would guess they are next with DA either in August or October.

Put it this way, if there is no DA until 2013 it will be 2 years between impirial codex's, no space marine (the 40k poster boys) codex in the 25th year and new edition year. I don't buy that. I will only belive no DA this year if there are solid rumors of another SM codex.

I must admit, however, that i would not be unhappy with Chaos next, as they have allot of stuff that can be used for conversions, and i want a plastic dreadclaw to de-chaos as it is a much nicer model than the SM drop pod.

Electro wrote:Pesonaly i think Stickmonkey is talking nonsense about no DA untill 2013. He may be right but without even a drop of reason, e.g. Chaos are next then no other codex, i don't belive it.

I thought SM always got a "generic" (Ultramarines) codex with every new edition.

Plans change. It is possible that DA were set to be next, and the spine picture on WD is a good example of them planning that, but then plans changed and someone at the studio chickened out and just said "Do another generic Marine Codex for 6th Ed!", pushing the DA into a different release window.

I thought the whole point was to have a generic Codex: Space Marines (Dark Angels) with some serial-numbers filed off (e.g. Rapid-Forward-Detachment inst. of Ravenwing), analogous to how they "de-Ultramarined" Calgar's Honour Guard and Nid-War Veterans.

Obviously 6th will se a generic Power armour dex to include all vanilla, chaos and oddbals like SW, DA and whathaveyou.

There will indeed be one dex and a starter set crammed with power armour to boost the idea of how fun it can be to play out variations within the same Codex against each other (as demostrated in WDs Fantasys Civil war rules) .

Disclaimer: No Im not serious, but it would make as much sense as having but one CSM Codex for all Legions, gods, cultists and deamons, IMHO.

Zweischneid wrote:I thought the whole point was to have a generic Codex: Space Marines (Dark Angels) with some serial-numbers filed off (e.g. Rapid-Forward-Detachment inst. of Ravenwing), analogous to how they "de-Ultramarined" Calgar's Honour Guard and Nid-War Veterans.

I've never heard that said anyway.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Plans change. It is possible that DA were set to be next, and the spine picture on WD is a good example of them planning that, but then plans changed and someone at the studio chickened out and just said "Do another generic Marine Codex for 6th Ed!", pushing the DA into a different release window.

The pic on the spine takes some issues to be completed, so nothing wrong with DA late in 12 or early in 13.
Didn't we have a rumor of a greater focus on chaos?
A 180° turn to start with chaos this time, isn't impossible. They are marines too. They didn't have anything new in 5th , thus lots of models to sell.
An order like:
- 6th plus focus change
- chaos release
- chaos waves
- the hobbit
- Dark Angels
could happen. What would GW add if they did a vanilla codex? What would a chaos release provide, in new kits and interest?
I'd guess GW benefits more from a chaos release, than vanilla marines. They also got more to keep them afloat if they have DA in store to throw in after chaos or even after chaos and a xeno dex. I think from those without a 5th edition codex, the spiky ones got the greatest potential for new stuff and thats maybe important to fill the time before the Hobbit , who may take up the slot pre- x-mas fully.

In My way of thinking .If we are going by the WD spines.. We will see a new DA dex in about 8 months or so. Why would you make a "Hidden Teaser" that finishes after you release the item? That just dosent make sence to me.

Nicorex wrote:In My way of thinking .If we are going by the WD spines.. We will see a new DA dex in about 8 months or so. Why would you make a "Hidden Teaser" that finishes after you release the item? That just dosent make sence to me.

How hidden is said teaser when the only thing you can't see is the Marine's pinky toe?

Nevermind. Damn thread sent me to the wrong page.

Zweischneid wrote:I thought the whole point was to have a generic Codex: Space Marines (Dark Angels) with some serial-numbers filed off (e.g. Rapid-Forward-Detachment inst. of Ravenwing), analogous to how they "de-Ultramarined" Calgar's Honour Guard and Nid-War Veterans.

Can't Ravenwing essentially be done in the vanilla codex now? Captain on bike makes bikes troops. You can field 9 land speeders. I don't play DA so I don't know the exact rules for Ravenwing but what I described seems close enough.

Nicorex wrote:In My way of thinking .If we are going by the WD spines.. We will see a new DA dex in about 8 months or so. Why would you make a "Hidden Teaser" that finishes after you release the item? That just dosent make sence to me.

GW is going to pull a Shyamalan.

It was a Chaos Space Marine the whole time.

*roll credits*

Cadaver wrote:

GW is going to pull a Shyamalan.

It was a Chaos Space Marine the whole time.

*roll credits*

I will be willing to buy moar models if that happens.

SickSix wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:I thought the whole point was to have a generic Codex: Space Marines (Dark Angels) with some serial-numbers filed off (e.g. Rapid-Forward-Detachment inst. of Ravenwing), analogous to how they "de-Ultramarined" Calgar's Honour Guard and Nid-War Veterans.

Can't Ravenwing essentially be done in the vanilla codex now? Captain on bike makes bikes troops. You can field 9 land speeders. I don't play DA so I don't know the exact rules for Ravenwing but what I described seems close enough.

The only "advantage" to ravenwing is the scout move and fearless bikers. It gets gimped by one of the most useless characters to qualify for it (Sammiel).
I love ravenwing but wish I could take Khan on a bike instead of instant death, I am not an IC, Sammiel. Sammiel as HTH is just worthless so the only option that might be worthwhile is the landspeeder version.

Landspeeders are overpriced except for typhoons and they get gimped because you can only take 1 per squadron. A speeder is overpriced unless you switch all the bolters to MM then you minimise the premium you pay for DA landspeeders.

My hope is that they make ravenwing into the Vanguard Vets of the DA. With the +1 A to the stat line and option to upgrade weapon choices. It won't solve all the problems but it will make the ravenwing unique as compared to a vanilla bike army.

DAaddict wrote:

SickSix wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:I thought the whole point was to have a generic Codex: Space Marines (Dark Angels) with some serial-numbers filed off (e.g. Rapid-Forward-Detachment inst. of Ravenwing), analogous to how they "de-Ultramarined" Calgar's Honour Guard and Nid-War Veterans.

Can't Ravenwing essentially be done in the vanilla codex now? Captain on bike makes bikes troops. You can field 9 land speeders. I don't play DA so I don't know the exact rules for Ravenwing but what I described seems close enough.

The only "advantage" to ravenwing is the scout move and fearless bikers. It gets gimped by one of the most useless characters to qualify for it (Sammiel).
I love ravenwing but wish I could take Khan on a bike instead of instant death, I am not an IC, Sammiel. Sammiel as HTH is just worthless so the only option that might be worthwhile is the landspeeder version.

Landspeeders are overpriced except for typhoons and they get gimped because you can only take 1 per squadron. A speeder is overpriced unless you switch all the bolters to MM then you minimise the premium you pay for DA landspeeders.

My hope is that they make ravenwing into the Vanguard Vets of the DA. With the +1 A to the stat line and option to upgrade weapon choices. It won't solve all the problems but it will make the ravenwing unique as compared to a vanilla bike army.

I think it's fairly pointless to try extrapolate from the "old" Ravenwing rules to the new. If they do something specifically Ravenwing, the first thing they'll do is make sure that it'll be a "multi-purpose" bike kit as all new kits are, so you'd likely get all sorts of variants of a) fancy bikes, b) super-fancy bikes and c) different fancy bikes that sit in different FoC slots cause mutli-purpose kits is what GW does these days.

The Ravenwing example was just an example to speculate that I thought they might drop the term "Ravenwing" as such and replace it with something less Chapter-specific, as they have done with UM Tyranid War Veterans > Sternguard and, ultimately, don't do a "unique" Dark Angel Codex at all, but only (in the tradition of pervious editions) a 6th Edition generic Space Marine Codex as first Codex release after the new Edition, and simply replace the headlining Ultramarines with Dark Angels (somewhere like 3rd Edition Black Templars, but without the minimalist design-ethic).

So basically, you're just trying to get a rise out of people by implying that Dark Angels need to be rolled into the main SM Codex and then talking circles around the topic.

Gotcha.

The only reason I can see for GW possibly putting the codex back to next year is that really GW are prepping for a new SM codex and if they update DA first then a lot of the cool new toys in the SM dex would also have to appear first in the DA dex taking the element of surprise away from the SM release.

GW are maybe deliberately running DA second fiddle to SMs, knowing SMs popularity this might push them to move the DA codex to after the SM codex so that the DA benefit from any new inclusions like a possible "ravenwing" flyer.

I'm still guessing that GW are going to make the Stormraven OK for the Vanilla dex and so the DA codex too, rather than a new flyer.

ceorron wrote:The only reason I can see for GW possibly putting the codex back to next year is that really GW are prepping for a new SM codex and if they update DA first then a lot of the cool new toys in the SM dex would also have to appear first in the DA dex taking the element of surprise away from the SM release.

That has never stopped them before.

Kanluwen wrote:So basically, you're just trying to get a rise out of people by implying that Dark Angels need to be rolled into the main SM Codex and then talking circles around the topic.

Gotcha.

I was speculating that given the new rumours that A) there is a Generic Space Marine Codex and B) the seemingly contradictory Dark Angel line-up coming (WD-spine, paint-set, likely feature in the starter-box, etc..) that they might be one at the same book. In particular it would partly fit "past patterns" (not that they are a reliable guide to anything, but hey) of the first book being Space Marine and the "headliner" being featured in the starter box.

Is it certain? No. Is it likely? Perhaps not. Do I think it "should" be done? I couldn't care less, to be honest. I am not on some "all Marines in one book" crusade. Infact, given that a greater percentage of players seems to play Marines than the percentage of Codexes that feature Marines, I'd argue Marines are likely still underrepresented in a comparison of books vs. player base. And given that Marine books take far fewer models for a "release" than most Xenos books, I see no harm in chucking out a few more.

I just speculate it is a distinct possiblity. Not least, because it would strike me as odd that "from-a-new-player-perspective" they would be "welcomed" with Dark Angels in the starter-set and the introductory paint-set, etc.., but then be told that they aren't in the first big Marine Codex to hit the shelves and would be somewhere down the line.

I don't see why people are insisting that there has to be an Imperial dex next. The release is something close to MEQ-non MEQ-MEQ not Imperial-non-Imperial.
6th coming out in July is likely, with a new starter in Sep. Chaos is supposed to be first dex for 6th edition, and Tau mentioned as first Dex of 2013. that would fit well with MEQ-non MEQ pattern. We had Necrons, then Chaos which is MEQ and a big focus for 6th supposedly, then Tau who need a new book badly, with another MEQ slot after them, which fits quite well with DA in 2013.

MajorWesJanson wrote:I don't see why people are insisting that there has to be an Imperial dex next. The release is something close to MEQ-non MEQ-MEQ not Imperial-non-Imperial.
6th coming out in July is likely, with a new starter in Sep. Chaos is supposed to be first dex for 6th edition, and Tau mentioned as first Dex of 2013. that would fit well with MEQ-non MEQ pattern. We had Necrons, then Chaos which is MEQ and a big focus for 6th supposedly, then Tau who need a new book badly, with another MEQ slot after them, which fits quite well with DA in 2013.

A. There is no MEQ/non-MEQ pattern (e.g. Orks and Chaos Daemons back to back)

B. Dark Angels are sitting on the WD spine and the starter paint set. They are arguably the most "reliably rumoured" to come soon. Nothing for Chaos or Tau has nearwhere half the substance so far.