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I just speculate it is a distinct possiblity. Not least, because it would strike me as odd that "from-a-new-player-perspective" they would be "welcomed" with Dark Angels in the starter-set and the introductory paint-set, etc.., but then be told that they aren't in the first big Marine Codex to hit the shelves and would be somewhere down the line.

Blood angels: 2nd edition, not apart of the vanilla dex and was in the paintset.
Black Templar: 3rd edition, certainly not apart of the vanilla dex, not sure if it was in the paintset

We've had this argument before, it's not always going to be generic "ultramarines" hitting the starter set.

3rd edition paint set was Ultramarines, and Black Templars didn't have their own rules until the Chapter Approved article that was either included or rewritten for Codex: Armageddon. They were part of the vanilla codex before then, and didn't get a proper codex all to themselves til 4th.

Brother SRM wrote:3rd edition paint set was Ultramarines, and Black Templars didn't have their own rules until the Chapter Approved article that was either included or rewritten for Codex: Armageddon. They were part of the vanilla codex before then, and didn't get a proper codex all to themselves til 4th.

Ah right, black templars was very early 4th, it had most of the third edition rules that were cut out so I keep thinking it's 3rd.

MajorWesJanson wrote:I don't see why people are insisting that there has to be an Imperial dex next. The release is something close to MEQ-non MEQ-MEQ not Imperial-non-Imperial.
6th coming out in July is likely, with a new starter in Sep. Chaos is supposed to be first dex for 6th edition, and Tau mentioned as first Dex of 2013. that would fit well with MEQ-non MEQ pattern. We had Necrons, then Chaos which is MEQ and a big focus for 6th supposedly, then Tau who need a new book badly, with another MEQ slot after them, which fits quite well with DA in 2013.

What you are saying is that there will be one codex in 2012 and no imperial dex for at least two and a half years, all of this in both the 25th year and in the new release year, and one of the box set forces having a dex that is two editions old.

Reading between the lines i think Stickmonkey is trying to help but has said something very very silly, that there will be no DA dex this year just because he has not seen it yet, and this has caused the same amount of fuss as the rumor he was trying to stop.

"B. Dark Angels are sitting on the WD spine and the starter paint set. They are arguably the most "reliably rumoured" to come soon. Nothing for Chaos or Tau has nearwhere half the substance so far."

well put.... exactly!

I remember when EVERYONE said DA were not in the starter set. I thought they would be included but everyone at my shop and online shot me down. Now we are hearing rumors otherwise from everyone. Most people may not be detectives but there is a ton of evidence out there. GW may not be making everyone happy but they are not going to release 1 codex during their 25th anniversary. New releases are how they keep sales up, add new players, and convince veteran players to keep buying new armies (shiney factor).

I think DA on the WD spines, DA in the paint set, DA successor decals, DA being the 1st legion (and hugely popular in the past), 25th anniversary, etc.... everything points to summer/fall of this year. The naysayers may naysay, but us DA players will have the last laugh!

Have faith my friends!!

I think we are going to see is:

May: Chaos
June: build up to 6th with lots of hints and annoying "viral" videos
July: 6th rules, book, colectors edition, possibly a wave of new finecast to go with it.
August: possibly DA or something else. Possibly flyers.
September: box set DA vs Chaos
October: more likely date for DA
November: LotR
December: christmas stuff
2013, a three release year: possibly tau, eldar and BT, but who knows this far in advance. We dont even know what is happening in two weeks yet.

I'm now happyer with my theory about GW and their new attempts at marketing and managed hints. DA spine will be poster boys for 6th but we will get:
6th comes out:
GW: ye the spine is a hint for 6th and nothing else
Box set comes out:
GW:bwaaaa... Foold you. They are in the starter set too. But thats all.
Codex comes out:
Fooled you again!!!11!

I bet we are going to get lots of puns and hints about something comeing from the rock and secrets and prisoners.

This is me pulling stuff out of the air and pasting it into this thread.

May: Chaos
June: Something from Fantasy
July: Some 2nd Wave 40k Stuff
August: Something special about Fantasy
September: Special release of some sort
October: 6th Edition
November: Fantasy
December: Christmas Stuff with possible Hobbit tie-in
January: Hobbit

The diffrence being that i'm not pulling stuff out of the air....

We have had evidence for all of it. The release date for 6th was leaked a long time ago and fits 5th. The only guess i have with no evidence is the finecast release with 6th, but that is baised on the fact that more mode,s are going oop, and it would make sense for the next release.

There may be a fantasy release later in the year, but no idea what or when. Possibly in the month (aug or oct) not filled with a codex we will see chaos warhammer book.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/371300.page

Lotr and DA are not in there and chaos was supposed to be april, but as i've said no second codex and an out of date codex for the new edition? Na.

What evidence do you have for anything except Chaos next month?

Electro wrote:
What evidence do you have for anything except Chaos next month?

Go over and read the Necron rumour thread. They seem to be zeroing in on a fairly substantive Necron 2nd Wave (minus flyers) for May.

Electro wrote:I think we are going to see is:

May: Chaos
June: build up to 6th with lots of hints and annoying "viral" videos
July: 6th rules, book, colectors edition, possibly a wave of new finecast to go with it.
August: possibly DA or something else. Possibly flyers.
September: box set DA vs Chaos
October: more likely date for DA
November: LotR
December: christmas stuff
2013, a three release year: possibly tau, eldar and BT, but who knows this far in advance. We dont even know what is happening in two weeks yet.

So basically:
May: 40k
June: 40k
July : 40k
August: 40k
September: 40k
October: 40k
November: LoTR
2013: Focus on 40k.

Not happening

Kroothawk wrote:
So basically:
May: 40k
June: 40k
July : 40k
August: 40k
September: 40k
October: 40k
November: LoTR
2013: Focus on 40k.

Not happening

Ok, i just cramed in all the stuff with likely dates. If pushed for what will be droped i would go:

May: 40k
June: WHFB second waves (just some previews of 40k with no release)
July: 40k
Aug: no idea
Sept: 40k
Oct: 40k (if not Aug)
Nov: Lotr

That is 5 40k months this year, 3 whfb, with possibly one in August or October, and two lotr.

Seems much more likely than just the one codex.

Could be two next year, could be three. More likely two and no chaos army book until 2013, but that 100% guess work as we know nothing about it. Perhaps three codexs in 2013 is extreamly unlikley.

If you belive the necron roumors that means no 40k codex untill possibly October. I'm not convinced. However like anything people want to see there own army next.

Out of all of this guess work the only things i would put a bet on are we will see at least 2 codexs this year, the box set will be DA vs Chaos and 6th will be in July.

Kroothawk wrote:So basically:
May: 40k
June: 40k
July : 40k
August: 40k
September: 40k
October: 40k
November: LoTR
2013: Focus on 40k.

Not happening

That'd work better than what they did for the WHFB 8th Edition release though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Electro wrote:I think we are going to see is:

May: Chaos

Breotan wrote:This is me pulling stuff out of the air and pasting it into this thread.

May: Chaos

May is looking to be the Necrons 2nd Wave.

I think alot of people take the March Space Wolves/Nids too lightly.

In March, they released 4 new plastic kits and 4 completely new Finecast models.

March 2012
*Tyranids - Tervigon/Tyrannofex
*Tyranids - Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord
*Space Wolves - Thunderwolf Cavalry
Space Wolves - Fenrisian Wolves
Space Wolves - Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf
Space Wolves - Arjac Rockfist
Space Wolves - Grey Hunter with Standard
Space Wolves - Cyberwolf

That is quite a bit more than the Grey Knight release a year earlier (3 Plastic kits, 3 Finecast) or about even with Blood Angels a year before that (3 Plastic, 5 metal (later FC). It is infact also bigger than both the initial Space Wolves and Tyranid releases when their books came out.

April 2011: Grey Knights (5th edition)
*Grey Knights - Grey Knights
*Grey Knights - Terminators
*Grey Knights - Nemesis Dreadknight
*Grey Knights - Lord Draigo
*Grey Knights - Castellan Crowe
Grey Knights - Jokaero Weaponsmith

April 2010: Blood Angels (5th edition)
*Blood Angels - Death Company
*Blood Angels - Sanguinary Guard
*Blood Angels - Baal Predator
*Blood Angels - The Sanguinor
*Blood Angels - Astorath the Grim
*Blood Angels - Gabriel Seth
*Blood Angels - Chaplain Lemartes
Blood Angels - Vanguard Veteran Sergeant


As far as the "small" summer/1st half of the year releases go, GW isn't really behind previous years as far as 40K miniatures go. They just haven't released a new "book".

Interesting point, thanks!

Zweischneid wrote:
That is quite a bit more than the Grey Knight release a year earlier (3 Plastic kits, 3 Finecast)

Draigo and Crowe were metal when the GK release came. The Jokaero hasn't been made Finecast yet. Finecast wasn't released until a few months after the GK release.

Just FYI.

Though the actual point does stand, yes.

DAaddict wrote:

The only "advantage" to ravenwing is the scout move and fearless bikers. It gets gimped by one of the most useless characters to qualify for it (Sammiel).
I love ravenwing but wish I could take Khan on a bike instead of instant death, I am not an IC, Sammiel. Sammiel as HTH is just worthless so the only option that might be worthwhile is the landspeeder version.

Sammael on jetbike is immune to Instant Death in the current codex (Adamantine Mantle).

And he's perfectly viable in HTH. Played a 2000 pt pre-tourney practice game a couple of months back against Tau...

Sammael ended up out on a limb, a bit -- I had planned to use him to assault some Tau battlesuits, to tie them up, hopefully kill a few, *and* force my opponent to charge Sammy with his kroot mob (30 kroot + an IC HQ choice in a battlesuit), so the kroot couldn't rapid-fire at my other bikes. Unfortunately he was just out of assault range, so stood there ineffectually, and I realised the kroot were going to either rapid-fire *him*, or charge him.

Tau player deliberated a bit and elected to charge... big mistake.

Sammy killed 4 kroot (!), then they swung back and did 6 wounds to him... all of which he saved... Tau player rolled a leadership test... kroot and HQ both ran off the board.

The only thing I'm betting on is 2 40k codex's plus 6th this year. Only releasing 1 codex in the 25 anniversary year would be extremely strange, even for GW. There is no way they aren't going to try to capitalize on the hype. They have 2013 to focus on other ranges.

Droma wrote:The only thing I'm betting on is 2 40k codex's plus 6th this year. Only releasing 1 codex in the 25 anniversary year would be extremely strange, even for GW. There is no way they aren't going to try to capitalize on the hype. They have 2013 to focus on other ranges.

While this is by far the most probable, they only had one Fantasy Army Book for Beastmen in 2010, as well as the new edition and start box, before plunging into it full-ahead in 2011 with three army books and that Storm of Magic thing (largely because they cluttered 2010 with no less than 40K Codexes, including the obscenely large Dark Eldar release).

So its not... impossible, I would guess.

Anyone know if there's much truth to the DA/Fallen duel codex? Heard it a few times now..

AethyrKnight wrote:Anyone know if there's much truth to the DA/Fallen duel codex? Heard it a few times now..

When was the last time you saw a dual codex? Yeah, thought so.

In regard to what he's talking about, it could be argued that the current Marine Codex does exactly that. It would not be that hard for GW (in theory) to do a fallen/loyalist based on character choices just like Salamanders, White Scars, Raven Guard, etc. out of the current Vanilla book.

I don't know if LotR is going to see anything interesting in November. Yes, the Hobbit is being released but I expect any models will come after than in January or February.

Brother SRM wrote:

AethyrKnight wrote:Anyone know if there's much truth to the DA/Fallen duel codex? Heard it a few times now..

When was the last time you saw a dual codex? Yeah, thought so.

I could see them doing a nemesis section in the back of the dex, like they did with the old Witchhunter and Daemonhunter codices.

I can't see them doing that. GW's really trying to move to get away from that. While its thematic, its impractical, because almost no one bothers to model a unit that they can only use in such a specific scenario.

As the fluff stands, Fallen Angels are very few and are very rarely seen in groups. They don't really serve as an army and barely even a unit. If Fallen Angels are every done again I imagine they'll be a Cypher buffed unit for a Chaos Legion or Chaos Renegade codex... function in a similar vein to how Legion of the Damned for Loyalist do.

blue loki wrote:
I could see them doing a nemesis section in the back of the dex, like they did with the old Witchhunter and Daemonhunter codices.

They haven't done that in what, ten years? Even then, they didn't do it with either Sisters or Grey Knights. It's not happening.

Brother SRM wrote:

blue loki wrote:
I could see them doing a nemesis section in the back of the dex, like they did with the old Witchhunter and Daemonhunter codices.

They haven't done that in what, ten years? Even then, they didn't do it with either Sisters or Grey Knights. It's not happening.

Gray knights got a henchmen army dual list. And sisters were a WD dex, and lost even their own basic witch hunter stuff.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

blue loki wrote:
I could see them doing a nemesis section in the back of the dex, like they did with the old Witchhunter and Daemonhunter codices.

They haven't done that in what, ten years? Even then, they didn't do it with either Sisters or Grey Knights. It's not happening.

Gray knights got a henchmen army dual list. And sisters were a WD dex, and lost even their own basic witch hunter stuff.

That has nothing to do with a nemesis section, like the WH/DH books had.

The book having multiple options is not the same as the book having completely unrelated units only intended to make your opposition's list "fluffy".

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Gray knights got a henchmen army dual list. And sisters were a WD dex, and lost even their own basic witch hunter stuff.

Is that like saying Space Wolves got a dual list because they can take Fenrisian Wolves as troops? Or is it like saying Space Marines got a dual list because you can make bikers troops with a bike captain. Ooh, ooh! Orks aren't just a dual list, but a TRIPLE list because you can take Nobz as troops with a warboss, or Deff Dreads as troops with a Mek! One special character who shuffles the FOC slightly does not a second army list make. Even so, taking Coteaz doesn't restrict you from taking Grey Knights in your army, he just lets you use more henchmen. Even so, Kan is right; that's completely different from the old nemesis rules.

It might sound pretty off the wall, but there is nothing stopping anyone from just using the Dark Angels rules as Fallen. It makes the most sense anyways.

Brother SRM wrote:

blue loki wrote:
I could see them doing a nemesis section in the back of the dex, like they did with the old Witchhunter and Daemonhunter codices.

They haven't done that in what, ten years? Even then, they didn't do it with either Sisters or Grey Knights. It's not happening.

Now I'm feeling like I missed the opportunity to make a smarmy remark about how he's wrong since precedent clearly shows DA and BA will be reintegrated into a single book.