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Mahu wrote:

I have a feeling that will be answered with the Nid's own psyker ability.

I'm guessing there'll be a reason to keep your MCs in range of Synapse?

Synaspse is diffinately going to change the degree however is the question.

Well, I forsee Malenthrops and Zoenthropes that have a reasonable chance at shutting down psykers. Maybe even doing them harm if they try to cast powers with 24" or something like that.

I would also like to see Synaspse be more of a support / buff portion of the codex, then to have units dependent on it.

I also think they need to remove "no instant death" from synapse and just make Warriors toughness 5 base.

But this is me wishlisting.

As far as the venom cannon is concerned, the easiest fix is to make it str 10 ap-. That brings it right back to being in line with where it was pre-5th.

As far as variable strength weaponry. I have a feeling it'll stay. I'm going through all of the plastic kits and looking at the guns. The warrior barbed strangler and venom cannon are significantly smaller than the carnifex ones. Same goes for the gaunt devourer versus the carnifex devourers.

However, the fleshborer, the spinefist and the deathspitter have fixed sizes. The carnifex deathspitter is just a one-handed version of the warrior deathspitter, and the only models with fleshborers are the same size. Perhaps we might see a locked in statline for the small guns, and maybe a carnifex/hive tyrant venom cannon/barbed strangler/devourer, and then regular versions.

Ultimately, my wishlist for nid shooting is VERY short. It requires a re-work of the venom cannon. basically, what I want for nids is the ability to pull down all fast vehicles and transports with relative ease. I am talking AV10/11/12. What i DON'T want, is for nid shooting to be capable of pulling down av13/14. If that happens, we will end up with nidzilla for 5 more years. Infantry based armies don't need to be able to kill all tanks from range, but they do need to be able to shut down mobility and swat fast gunships down. If they can't do those things, then they will get whittled down and beat down without getting to grips with their opponent. Heavier tanks need to move slower in order to fire, even the land raider only fires a single weapon moving more than 12". Its ok for those heavier tanks to chatter away while the nids close in and kill off transports and fast gunships. They can defeat MBTs the way all aggressive armies should, either by outflanking, or by a mid to late game assault.

That being established, a strength 10 gun with a -1 to the table isn't much worse at killing a land raider than it is a land speeder. Not a welcome mechanic. What we need to have, is either a strength 8 ap1 36" range assault x weapon, A strength 7 multiple shot long range weapon or a strength 8 possibly 9, non-ap1 assault x weapon. In the case of the latter two, we need LOTS of them, so either cheap, or VERY accurate.

The only other clutch piece of nid shooting on the wishlist I am already confident we are getting. And that is a turn 1 anti-infantry cover ignoring shot. The thunderfire cannon has helped my marine opponents finally solve the riddle of imperial guard. It goes hand in hand with long range transport kill, really influencing the game in the first third, before land speeders have had an effect. I forsee an important combo of nids, when facing off against dangerous mech armies is a venom cannon transport pop and a biovore pyroacid barrage onto the survivors. We will probably only need one brood of biovores to get the job done, much like marine players are only running single thunderfires.

For wishlist CC. I dunno... make nids good at it? Raveners strength 5 base with heroic intervention? Carnifex tail attacks that generate 6-10 extra low strength attacks when tarpitted? Genestealers with discounted scything talons/acid maw/toxin sacs? Make catalyst worth a damn, like it was in 2nd edition? incorporate the wonderful suggestions about lictors that all of you guys have been posting... the only 2nd edition tyranid psychic power that they aren't currently using is called "Hypnotic gaze" It'd be the perfect thing for the broodlord or lictor to have access too. Basically making enemies into deer in headlights before slicing their heads off. Since I know GW is mining the old fluff for content to update, my guess is that we will see this new psychic power, as a way to fix lictors hopefully.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Personally, I'm happier if the variable-S thing goes, especially if Nids are getting a lot more species added. Variable S means that both players need to know the basic S values of every Nid model, along with the +/- adjustment of every Nid weapon. Fixed S per ranged weapon is much easier.

You're kidding, right? The only people in this world who even know what Tyranids look like are Tyranid players, including GW's artists. The variable S system isn't complicated at all and doesn't require the other player knowing the stats of your units-- or else my prior statement wouldn't be true. Try to find a non-Tyranid player that knows Tyranid stats. Go for it.

Shep wrote:For wishlist CC. I dunno... make nids good at it?

*wipes tears from eyes*

wyomingfox wrote:

Shep wrote:For wishlist CC. I dunno... make nids good at it?

*wipes tears from eyes*

*kills 20 gaunts and then watches 3 nearby fexes explode in a fine pink mist from no retreat wounds*

wyomingfox wrote:

Shep wrote:For wishlist CC. I dunno... make nids good at it?

*wipes tears from eyes*

We can only hope.

Ive read through a fair part of this thread.. its long.

Firstly I think synapse will actually do something this time. Like a free attack for every model and/or an inv save for every model within its affect. It will be something odd like this and it will make gaunts awesome.

There will be some way to rearrange the force org chart.. Maybe special genus/characters, one of these will be the effective one, that will allow gaunts to have mastercrafted attacks or something similar.

The Tyrgon will good, a variant will be amazing and make a carnifex look like a guardsmen with an arm tied behind his back. This variant will require conversion or take forever to come out.. ala ironclad or vendetta.

Lictor will definately fail ruleswise.

The other thing about GW is that GW always has strange lists which are super effective.. usually this is something you wouldn't think to take and so no one at the studio has taken it.. like lone wolves in termie armour with storm shield. So annoying.. This is why competive list are always unfluffy because no one at the studio would think to play that way. Cause they are beer pretzel players. Something like gargolyes with flyrant will never be effective as say only bring tyrgons.

Broken Loose wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

Shep wrote:For wishlist CC. I dunno... make nids good at it?

*wipes tears from eyes*

*kills 20 gaunts and then watches 3 nearby fexes explode in a fine pink mist from no retreat wounds*

Sounds like my Ard Boyz

I totally agree with Shep, I forgot that AP - essentially does what I propose.

I have faith in Robin Cruddace, with the exception of two units (ratlings and Storm Trooper), the IG book has been the best one in years. So many different Army builds, so many different yet good Heavy Support options. I even commend him on making the Valk a good choice, but not a "must have" (though it does outshine other FA).

Some people seem to think he writes codexes akin to the 3rd edition Eldar codex.

Why not just make the Vencom Cannon able to penetrate with no bonuses or negatives to the table. Is it such a bad thing that 'Nids get a single gun that can crack tanks, honestly?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why not just make the Vencom Cannon able to penetrate with no bonuses or negatives to the table. Is it such a bad thing that 'Nids get a single gun that can crack tanks, honestly?

I personally wouldn't mind at all. People who scream that the carnifex is the most horribly broken unit in all of gaming ever would whine that the best the Imperium has to offer for long range is only S9 Heavy 1, so why should 'nids get S10 Assault 2? Granted Tau only get S10 Heavy 1, but their shot is attached to TL BS3/4 and gets AP1 to boot.

I do believe that the true nature of the tyranids are going to seen in this new codex. plus everyone is talking about the carnifexs and genestealers are going to be gimp, but there are going to be several new creatures that going to be introduce into the tyranids to balance the army out. so we are going to have wait and see.

I personly would think it would be awesome if they change w=venom cannnon or just ave us another gun

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why not just make the Vencom Cannon able to penetrate with no bonuses or negatives to the table. Is it such a bad thing that 'Nids get a single gun that can crack tanks, honestly?

I agree that the venom cannon shouldn't have any kind of +/- shenanigans. It should just have an ap value, and be able to pen. However, i disagree that it would be ok for tyranids to get a BS3 two shot strength 10 weapon. They need to be able to drop vehicles, but they don't need to become the premier army for dropping heavy armor from range.

I'll just super specific on my wishlisting.

Heavy support choice warriors, any model may take a venom cannon. the venom cannon in this unit should be strength 7 and have 2 shots at BS3. The unit itself should generate around 4 hits for every 100 points it costs.

Hive tyrant venom cannon, strength 9 three shots, BS3

Carnifex venom cannon, strength 9 three shots, BS3 with upgrade.

Transport and light gunship kill solved.

I don't understand why Genestealers would need to be toned down. They're awesome at CC, but they're fragile as hell. Personally, I think they'll stay the same, lose Feeder Tendrils, and decrease a couple points.

I personally love the stat modifiers from the user rules. It's characterful and cool. Is it honestly that hard to learn the stats for these things when people go around memorizing everything else for every other army under the dang sun? C'mon now, you can't honestly tell me that people get confused, and STAY confused past the first couple of games. Do people forget how to learn when they fight Tyranids? Wasn't a huge part of the ad campaign for 3rd edition Nids some sort of "KNOW YOUR FOE!" Imperium propaganda poster style chart of what each Tyranid looked like? Haven't people been prioritizing and killing the different species like they always have? It isn't hard! A bolter is a bolter, regardless of the hands that weild it, but a fleshborer can grow with it's wielder; a Carnifex with a man sized fleshborer jutting out of its hands is goung to hit harder than a Termagant with an uzi sized fleshborer.

Except, the Carnifex-sized fleshborer is the same as the Warrior & Tyrant one...

See? You knew right there. That's my point. It isn't hard to remember this stuff.

I know the models, but I have no idea if the Fex, HT, and Warrior are all the same Str, and what the Fleshborer S might be from fired by all 4 of the things that can take it.

If Nids had "big Fleshborer" and "Gaunt Fleshborer", I could live with that.

But having 4 (or more) versions of the thing, when 3 of them appear to be the same, doesn't make so much sense.

C'mon, it isn't that bad. S+1. All you need is the S of each creature in question and basic arithmatic.

Hive Tyrant? S5. 6 with toxin sacs
Carnifex? S9, 10 with sacs

Gaunts? 3, 4 w/ sacs.

Everybody ends up memorizing Demon Prince stats, and what marks of chaos do, all the statlines of the bazillion extra seige weapons that Guard have now. How can you play a game like this and not end up knowing this stuff?

It's just one of those things that seems complicated and obtuse until you get exposed to it. Like taking calculus for the first time.

So, it's S3, S4, S5, S6, S9, or S10? Great!

JohnHwangDD wrote:So, it's S3, S4, S5, S6, S9, or S10? Great!

If you're having a hard time, ask your opponent- he should know. Or just follow the bigger they are the harder they hit.

The shot is 4 on gaunts, 5 on warriors, 6 on Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes, because it's max strength 6. And noone ever, ever uses them on anything but gaunts anyway, so you amy as well just assume it's a bolter with 12" range. Thats all. Honestly I can't remember the statlines of the .. I don't know, the 5 or so similar Imperial Guard artillery platforms. If I played against them I'd end up knowing them eventually though.

mikesorensonxx wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:So, it's S3, S4, S5, S6, S9, or S10? Great!

If you're having a hard time, ask your opponent- he should know.

You're right that he *should* know.

But I shouldn't have to trust him to work his way through math correctly and honestly when every other gun in the game can simply be answered based on what it is.

Because, you know, sometimes opponents make mistakes.

And sometimes, they even (gasp!) "mislead" you...

I have to agree that keeping track of what gun does what and at what str and shots is complicated unless either you or your opponent are really on the ball. However, it is one of my favorite features of the tyranid list.

I don't really see why it's difficult. If you're trying to remember strengths on certain monsters, you're doing it wrong. Remember the formula, not the strength. That isn't confusing in the slightest. It's certainly way easier than remembering values for armies that have non-Imperial weapons since there are only a half-dozen weapons to recall.

Honestly, it always ends up being the same configuration anyway, once people figure out what the optimal configuration is. Dakkafex devourers are always S6, flyrant devourers are always S6, Warrior deathspitters are always S6, Warrior devourers are always S4, Carnifex Barbed Stranglers are always S8... you end up with standard weapon lines anyway. But the options inherent in the system are what makes it fun.

Railguns wrote:Honestly, it always ends up being the same configuration anyway, once people figure out what the optimal configuration is.

But the options inherent in the system are what makes it fun.

Oh, OK, then you can just kiss it goodbye, because what you just described is *exactly* like (pick any of the following) Doctrines / Traits / Craftworlds / Legions.