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I think the Flash Gitz sold me on RAI. I agree with Gwar! anyway (and not just because he might stick me in his sig). RAI should almost always win out over RAW rules lawyering anyway. Games Workshop writes their rules poorly, but you can see what they were getting at.

The painboy cannot take 'eavy armour. 'eavy armour is a nob upgrade, not a painboy upgrade. Painboys are not nobs.
The painboy rides a bike, because he is a part of a [i]Nob Bikers Unit.


Where does it say that the unit is now called a "Nob Biker Unit"?? Youre making stuff up here. Youre saying, for some reason, a unit may be given war gear it doesnt even have because of the unit it is apart of. This makes no sense.

The argument on Gwars side is simple - Nobs can take bikes, armour and any other options - painboys are stuck with doks tools and thats it. It doesnt matter if it says "the entire mob", because at that point its talking about Nobs. According to Gwar, the painboys are restricted to Doks tools for war gear. Bikes are wargear, and are not listed under Painboys. If youre going to have a painboy with a bike, that means he could take armour too, because neither are listed under painboy. If youre going to count it as a seperate unit that only follows its 2 bullets, you cant cross over and give it bikes. Pick one way or the other.

Aside from that, anyone looking for a realistic view on this can easily see the reason for "the entire mob can" on bikes and stikkbombs are because you cant have half a unit with them and half without, as the 40k rules dont work like that. So anyone with common sense is going to laugh at this "entire mob" argument.

Only two ways to look at this:

Painboy has all Nob options and gear, and trades slugga and choppa only as RAW states

or

Painboy is completely different, get no Nob gear, and the only two options it can ever take are grot orderly and give nobs cybork bodies.


Very Simple

Night Lords wrote:The argument on Gwars side is simple - Nobs can take bikes, armour and any other options - painboys are stuck with doks tools and thats it.

I'll say this one last time:

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Painboys can take a bike because the Bike is a Unit Upgrade. Painboyz cannot take Nob Wargear because they are not Nobz.

Orkeosaurus wrote:You have a nob. It may be a painboy. There is no implication there that the painboy is no longer a type of nob.

You have a sergeant. You get him along with some tactical marines when you buy the squad. He has never been one of the tactical marines, he is by no stretch of the imagination one now.

They're completely different situations.

Wrong wrong wrong.

I buy 10 Chaos Marines for 15 points each, and its +15 more for an aspiring champion. So he was a marine.

Painboy is completely different, but is appart of the squad, therefore getting gear that applies to the entire squad.

Night Lords wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:You have a nob. It may be a painboy. There is no implication there that the painboy is no longer a type of nob.

You have a sergeant. You get him along with some tactical marines when you buy the squad. He has never been one of the tactical marines, he is by no stretch of the imagination one now.

They're completely different situations.

Wrong wrong wrong.

I buy 10 Chaos Marines for 15 points each, and its +15 more for an aspiring champion. So he was a marine.

Yeah, he WAS a marine, the same way the Painboy WAS a Nob, but is not anymore.

Night Lords wrote:
Wrong wrong wrong.

I buy 10 Chaos Marines for 15 points each, and its +15 more for an aspiring champion. So he was a marine.

I think he is just trolling you now G

LunaHound wrote:

Night Lords wrote:
Wrong wrong wrong.

I buy 10 Chaos Marines for 15 points each, and its +15 more for an aspiring champion. So he was a marine.

I think he is just trolling you now G

If a girl can work it out, us neckbeards should have figured it out long ago

Also Luna, where is your current avatar from?

LunaHound wrote:

Night Lords wrote:
Wrong wrong wrong.

I buy 10 Chaos Marines for 15 points each, and its +15 more for an aspiring champion. So he was a marine.

I think he is just trolling you now G

My god...it wasnt even a reply to Gwar. Please not accuse me of trolling someone when it isnt even directed at them. *shakes head*

RAI RAI RAI RAI RAI RAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAIRAIRIARIAIRARAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAI

/thread

Wow, 100+ replies for a question I correctly answered in the first reply.

And they call me a troll!

MasticatorDeelux wrote:

My god...it wasnt even a reply to Gwar. Please not accuse me of trolling someone when it isnt even directed at them. *shakes head*

Yes that was my fault , i forfeit

@Gwar! its a fan art of Cirno 9

Gwar! wrote:Wow, 100+ replies for a question I correctly answered in the first reply.
And they call me a troll!

It must be your avatar , time for a new one i think.

Its a great way to get ones post count up.

EDIT: inb4 lock

Does anyone know where I can get some Space Corridors and Industrial Towers from?

LunaHound wrote:It must be your avatar , time for a new one i think.

But it is a cute baby picture of me

DarkHound wrote:RAI RAI RAI RAI RAI RAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAIRAIRIARIAIRARAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAI

/thread

Exactly. Weve gone so far off with this insane nob bikers nonsense (where rules are being made up), and completely forgot that a it's just intended to have the painboy be a nob. A nob may be a painboy (aka a painboy may be a doctor), and only has to replace his slugga and choppa wargear, allowing him to take both bikes and Eavy Armour. Thanks everyone who opposed this obvious intention, as now itll be easy to stomp anyone who is insane enough to say otherwise.

Gwar! wrote:

@Dashofpepper: Seriously, grow up.

Hold on, YOU of all people are going to say this? You have a thing for screaming, lying down and beating you feet, ignoring rule quotes when it proves you wrong, and plugging your ears screaming "LALALALA" in maximum sized font to attempt shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Pot, meet kettle.

Night Lords wrote:

DarkHound wrote:RAI RAI RAI RAI RAI RAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAIRAIRIARIAIRARAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIARIAIRIARIAIRAIRIAI

/thread

Exactly. Weve gone so far off with this insane nob bikers nonsense (where rules are being made up), and completely forgot that a it's just intended to have the painboy be a nob. A nob may be a painboy (aka a painboy may be a doctor), and only has to replace his slugga and choppa wargear, allowing him to take both bikes and Eavy Armour. Thanks everyone who opposed this obvious intention, as now itll be easy to stomp anyone who is insane enough to say otherwise.

I was refering to the Flash Gitz example, where the Nob was already equiped with 'Eavy Armor, then loses it to become a Painboy.

EDIT: Man, this part of the forum really IS great for getting your post count up.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

@Dashofpepper: Seriously, grow up.

Hold on, YOU of all people are going to say this? You have a thing for screaming, lying down and beating you feet, ignoring rule quotes when it proves you wrong, and plugging your ears screaming "LALALALA" in maximum sized font to attempt shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Pot, meet kettle.

Dashofpepper, I know you play pink orks (haha), how have you been playing it previous to this discussion in tournaments?

Oddly enough, both RaI and RaW provide the same result.

Amazing no?

Yes, I agree with Gwar! on RAW too. Wooh, I'm in the sig!

Night Lords wrote:Exactly. Weve gone so far off with this insane nob bikers nonsense (where rules are being made up), and completely forgot that a it's just intended to have the painboy be a nob. A nob may be a painboy (aka a painboy may be a doctor), and only has to replace his slugga and choppa wargear, allowing him to take both bikes and Eavy Armour. Thanks everyone who opposed this obvious intention, as now itll be easy to stomp anyone who is insane enough to say otherwise.

No. Everything you presume is false. The bikes are for an entire mob. A painboy is not a nob. A painboy cannot take heavy armor. You are wrong. Merely recapping one side of an argument with the airs of a pompous ass doesn't lend your argument true.

Night Lords wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

@Dashofpepper: Seriously, grow up.

Hold on, YOU of all people are going to say this? You have a thing for screaming, lying down and beating you feet, ignoring rule quotes when it proves you wrong, and plugging your ears screaming "LALALALA" in maximum sized font to attempt shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Pot, meet kettle.

Dashofpepper, I know you play pink orks (haha), how have you been playing it previous to this discussion in tournaments?

My painboys always have 'eavy armor, just like the rest of of his nob squad, which I'm quite comfortable with the rules supporting.

Folks pointing to a unit upgrade of a sergeant is a poor analogy and unrelated. Upgrading a marine to a sergeant is like upgrading a boy to a nob in a boyz squad. The Ork codex makes a nob a painboy through the addition of two pieces of wargear. Honestly though, I'm not planning on getting embroiled in this debate though, I've been subjected to enough childishness by Gwar in other threads; if I wanted to put up with a freakin' baby, my wife and I would have kids.

MasticatorDeelux wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Exactly. Weve gone so far off with this insane nob bikers nonsense (where rules are being made up), and completely forgot that a it's just intended to have the painboy be a nob. A nob may be a painboy (aka a painboy may be a doctor), and only has to replace his slugga and choppa wargear, allowing him to take both bikes and Eavy Armour. Thanks everyone who opposed this obvious intention, as now itll be easy to stomp anyone who is insane enough to say otherwise.

No. Everything you presume is false. The bikes are for an entire mob. A painboy is not a nob. A painboy cannot take heavy armor. You are wrong. Merely recapping one side of an argument with the airs of a pompous ass doesn't lend your argument true.

No, everything you presume is false, because its entirely based on the false speculation that a nob is not a painboy, and even then, the rules for upgrading seperate units with no such wargear is laughable at best. Merely stating someone is wrong and you are right doesnt mean jack squat either

Pretty easy to say.

Thanks for the debate guys, like I said, now itll be easy to squash anyone who comes up with these insane arguments. Looking forward to the next one.

No, stating someone is wrong when backed with the rules as written/intended does.


HERPADERP ARGUMENT

Gwar! wrote:But it is a cute baby picture of me

Flash Gitz Painboy loses his armor. Flash Gitz are Nobs with fancy guns. The intention is that Painboyz don't get armor. The fact that the rules can be disputed as much as they are means you go over to RAI (even though I think Gwar! and the rest are right). I mean, the Flash Gitz example is so perfect, what do you have to debunk that?

4 Pages of this Dreck.

INB4LK.

Hmmm. "Am I the only one who plays by the rules here?"

A Stelecktanious statement as I have ever read.

DarkHound wrote:Flash Gitz Painboy loses his armor. Flash Gitz are Nobs with fancy guns. The intention is that Painboyz don't get armor. The fact that the rules can be disputed as much as they are means you go over to RAI (even though I think Gwar! and the rest are right). I mean, the Flash Gitz example is so perfect, what do you have to debunk that?

I think DarkHound is right.

Lets take a step around away from "try proving GW! wrong"

to relook at what the rule should be.