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LunaHound wrote:Just like when people buy these they'll be tempted to paint them ( well its a board game why paint? because people have the warhammer instinct of wanting to model them! )
So its not surprising when people want to surpass the board game mentality and want something abit more well made.

So people can have nicely painted board game minis along with nice lay out of terrain.

Two things:

1. If someone paints the miniatures then they are getting more out of Space Hulk than the base product itself, and that's fine. However, attacking Space Hulk - calling it 'worthless' or 'overpriced' - because it does not provide more than it intended that's the problem here.

Space Hulk's intent is to provide an updated board game. It does this by giving you all the necessary pieces to play that board game. Attacking it because it doesn't provide anything beyond that is simply absurd. Attacking it because it isn't providing you with Warhammer 40,000 terrain makes no God-damned sense. It isn't Warhammer 40,000. It's not an add-on. It's not a starter set. It's not an expansion. It's Space Hulk, an entity unto itself. You might as well attack it for not including Night Goblin Fanatics or Eldar Grav Tanks as well. Makes about as much sense.

2. You imply that the cardstock tiles are not well made. Given my second hand copies of Space Hulk and its expansions still look perfect, and these tiles look thicker, I'd say 'badly made' is a gross assumption. Now you may well turn out to be correct here, though I doubt it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:Enjoy this dude.

I think this has become a massive case of the pot calling the kettle black. You're trolling, baiting, and making personal attacks against me.

You are reported.

Again.

Again again.

Wait... What? I made a comment and you started this, my personal feelings aside, I am not baiting you in any way shape or form. Whether you take a freaking picture of a bunny rabbit as some sort of attack is entirely up to you, but it does not constitute anything besides W/E DUDE.

Okay we can just close the thread, this is totally pointless.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Just like when people buy these they'll be tempted to paint them ( well its a board game why paint? because people have the warhammer instinct of wanting to model them! )
So its not surprising when people want to surpass the board game mentality and want something abit more well made.

So people can have nicely painted board game minis along with nice lay out of terrain.

Two things:

1. If someone paints the miniatures then they are getting more out of Space Hulk than the base product itself, and that's fine. However, attacking Space Hulk - calling it 'worthless' or 'overpriced' - because it does not provide more than it intended that's the problem here.

Space Hulk's intent is to provide an updated board game. It does this by giving you all the necessary pieces to play that board game. Attacking it because it doesn't provide anything beyond that is simply absurd. Attacking it because it isn't providing you with Warhammer 40,000 terrain makes no God-damned sense. It isn't Warhammer 40,000. It's not an add-on. It's not a starter set. It's not an expansion. It's Space Hulk, an entity unto itself. You might as well attack it for not including Night Goblin Fanatics or Eldar Grav Tanks as well. Makes about as much sense.

2. You imply that the cardstock tiles are not well made. Given my second hand copies of Space Hulk and its expansions still look perfect, and these tiles look thicker, I'd say 'badly made' is a gross assumption. Now you may well turn out to be correct here, though I doubt it.

I'll get back to this in a few month when people are less fanatical about this.
From the way you think im attacking anything i do not wish to discuss this any further , because honestly i can care less about SH to attack it.

I didnt say its badly made , when i said "abit more well made" it means exactly what it is . If you want to blow it out of proportion , im not going to attempt to stop you.

Just abit disappointed with the mass suppression in this thread though. Guess speaking against the mob is a dumb thing to do after all...

Lunahound wrote:Just abit disappointed with the mass suppression in this thread though. Guess speaking against the mob is a dumb thing to do after all...

Nope, speaking up while ready to defend is a very important value.

As I said this thread is just a breeding ground for misunderstanding and trolling. This thread was set up with apparently unrealistic expectations of the community at large, and for this reason it should just be closed.

ugh... I was thinking of buying it for the models but upon closer inspection of the pictures I don't think I'm too keen on the whole BA look of them.... sure I could always do some conversion work but I stink at that sort of thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
actually.... the 'stealers do look cool...

So expecting plastic tiles isn't valid point HBMC? GW hype up something for months & months and what do they release? A bog standard board game and have the nerve to market it as a Limited Edition / Special Edtition. I think my point is more than valid.

I have a copy of Tannhauser, RRP £37 over here. It comes with a board that folds out to about 3ft square and is full colour both sides. There must be over a hundred full colour doublesided 1inch card counters with it, with character stat cards. You also have either 8 or ten good quality pre painted models with it + an A4 size full colour glossy rule book.

As someone has pointed out before, there are loads of DakkaDakka users that moan about GW prices, but then proceed to run to GW with their tail wagging and tongue out to purchasae 3 of the lastest rip off items GW has hyped up.

Why two seperate posts? I would imagine it's due to the strong feelings out there and it allows people to find the posters with similar feelings. Simples.

I am on your side Wolfstan, I have not seen the set in person, but from the looks of it the whole set should be plastic. I see no real reason for that besides cutting costs and possibly reducing the chance of error through mold-making. Sure card-stock is okay, I am not hating on car-stock; I just expect a lot more for such a large sum of money, especially when GW has seemingly been spreading huge amounts of hype over this product.

Simple stuff really, and that type of advertising is pretty much free when you get the fire started. The best part is I am sure this can be boiled down to the hype specifically from the GW stores... and I wonder why they are there sometimes .

If I had any solid information on GW's game-plan and projections, I could theorize that they are in fact producing one of the most profitable things the market could possibly handle at this point. Look how harmless it is, look how unoffensive it is, I think junior is getting that for his birthday, and I don't have to buy him that whole damn army he wanted... Win, win, sort of... This is a fad cats and donkeys, I see no reason why this would be worth anymore than it is now. A classic SH set is probably going to be worth quite a bit, but next to a spider-man original, or some random special magic card, this is going to be laughable generally.

I do not collect anything besides rocks maybe, but this being a board game does have some sort of niche value to many GW customers I am sure.

Wolfstan wrote:So expecting plastic tiles isn't valid point HBMC?

No, not at all. Expecting plastic tiles and being disappointed that it has cardstock is perfectly fine. I'd be in the exact same boat if the opposite were true - were it plastic unpainted tiles rather than cardstock I would have thought hard about buying it, and then probably decided against it.

My ire is reserved for those people who were expecting Space Hulk to provide them with plastic 40K terrain, or those that somehow think that Space Hulk is like Black Reach or Battle for Macragge and that it should provide a starter army.

Essentially anyone who expected Space Hulk to be anything more than Space Hulk have got their heads on backwards. Sure, be unhappy with the contents - I'd rather not have Terminators with BA iconography all over them - but don't place unrealistic expectations on it. It was never going to provide anyone with 40K terrain, and people who are unhappy that it didn't are deluding themselves.

Wolfstan wrote:GW hype up something for months & months and what do they release? A bog standard board game and have the nerve to market it as a Limited Edition / Special Edition. I think my point is more than valid.

Well that's a separate issue. And, I can see your point here 100%. I myself believe GW are a bunch of absolute feth-wits for lying to us about this, providing a marketing campaign that feels as amateurish as something a 4th grade class would come up with - actually, that's insulting, 4th graders are smarter than that - and expecting people to buy it sight-unseen in some cases.

But GW has no business sense. I'm not saying this to excuse them - anyone will know I'm the first to jump at GW's throat when it comes to criticism - but I'm not surprised by this. And you should be either. They limp and lurch their way from year to year, changing direction and focus more times than you or I change underwear, and then mistreat their fanbase to the point where they consider rumours bad when they themselves won't tell anyone anything about any product they're about to release.

But none of this is new. We know all this. And now we have a new Space Hulk to enjoy.

Now, your second point, the limited edition part of it. It's annoying, I'll give you that, and mean spirited if you ask me. There are reasons behind it though, such as how much it costs to produce the cardstock and the fact that they're doing it out of house. Again, that's not to excuse them, it's just another example of their terrible business sense - if it is only barely financially viable to sell this, and even then only as a limited run, one wonders why they even bothered in the first place beyond nostalgia - and if they're basing business decisions on nostalgia, then I'm amazed they're still an operating company.

My biggest fear now is that they'll consider this abysmal 'Mystery Box' project a success and get even more secretive about things (if that's even possible). Of course I will point out that Bell of Lost Souls first reported a remade Space Hulk in Feb this year, so so much for the 'mystery box'.

Wolfstan wrote:I have a copy of Tannhauser, RRP £37 over here. It comes with a board that folds out to about 3ft square and is full colour both sides. There must be over a hundred full colour doublesided 1inch card counters with it, with character stat cards. You also have either 8 or ten good quality pre painted models with it + an A4 size full colour glossy rule book.

And I spent $80 and got myself the full basic rules to BattleTech, card-reference sheets, a book of record sheets, a detailed overview of the universes fluff and 24 plastic 'Mechs - two whole Companies. And later this year another similar box is coming out that has 15 Clan 'Mechs and even plastic infantry. These are great deals.

GW doesn't understand great deals because they have no business sense. This box is worth probably 2/3rds to 1/2 what they're charging for it - we all know that - but some of us don't care because we want what's in it. Speaking generally (and not specifically about you), if you're unhappy with what you're getting for that price then fine - another valid criticism. I'm none to keen about the price, but I want cardstock corridors that fit with my existing Hulk sets and I love those models, so for me, personally, I'm getting my money's worth. If you were unhappy with what you were getting for that price because it didn't provide you with things for 40K, then, again, you'd be delusional because this box does not set out to give you thinks for 40K.

Wolfstan wrote:As someone has pointed out before, there are loads of DakkaDakka users that moan about GW prices, but then proceed to run to GW with their tail wagging and tongue out to purchasae 3 of the lastest rip off items GW has hyped up.

Which has very little to do with what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's 100% worth the price, or that everyone should buy it. I'm simply saying - again - that anyone who expected anything more than Space Hulk from the Space Hulk box is delusional. It is not an expansion, add-on, or gate-way product ala Mines of Moria/Skull Pass/etc.

Wolfstan wrote:Why two seperate posts? I would imagine it's due to the strong feelings out there and it allows people to find the posters with similar feelings. Simples.

Splitting the threads is pointless. It is, as Panic said, a circle jerk. We can all fanboi-sqeee! in 'our' thread, and you can all BAWWW! in 'your' thread. It's pointless. Why have differing opinions if they are going to be segregated and no debate can form?

Hurrah for internet ghettos!

The threads are split because mods know there will be large reaction between the 2 different sides.

They hoped we could stay in our own sides without getting mixed up.

And i just wanted to point out one thing.

Someone that owned / played SH before
will not look at the product with same light compared with someone that never touched SH before.

The lay out , the content , the materials , the looks ,
everything.

Dont forget.

There is also the fear of brainy discussion where people use big words without really knowing what they mean and the kindle it represents that only needs a generous of fuel and a spark. And there's also the thing that those discussions tend to get off-topic a long way.

How much brainy discussion is actually required over this though? I suppose that having the option to debate is good, but not everyone entering the thread will feel that they need to be a part of it.

I actually like to read peoples opinions, I just do not like it when you are forced into some petty flame-war over a board-game. This same thing happened in the recasting thread, and I could barely wade through the muck to find anything besides arguments.

People overreact too much. Yes or no. Yes I like it. No I don't like it. I don't care about deals, about lies, the rape, the torture or whatever it is that people use in twelve paragraph posts to "justify" their (non)purchase. You buy it? Fine! You don't buy it? Okay!

I think that mentality would be in support of having two threads though... am I mistaken in my understanding of your post BrookM?

Of course people overreact, it is something that is genetically embedded into our entire being. We overreact as a way to survive, the only problem... hmm... this is going to take way too long to explain.

Watch Charlie Brooker, he does a good break down of this whole style of media and the ability to take advantage of peoples reactio.... hmmm, one minute I think I saw a boob on the tele .

Well, I'm not buying it.

I already have 1st and 2nd edition of SH. These tiles look distinctly thicker than the old ones so they couldn't be mixed. I already have way too many terminators and genestealers.

The only thing I'd be getting from the set is the new rules and given that game balance was completely destroyed in 2nd ed. (heavily in favour of the marines) I'm not confident that 3rd is actually going to be an improvement on 1st.

If the board sections had been nice and compatible then I'd probably have bought it just for more board tiles. If it'd had the plastic corridors that were rumoured then I'd definately have bought it.

i saw, i wanted, i checked the price, i cried

Hi HBMC. Thanks for clarifiying the plastic issue.

On the whole I find that I have the same views as you concerning GW, but obviously this time they are slightly out of sync

A big chunk of my reply was just me on a roll, I replied to a couple of your points and threw in some other stuff in as it popped into my head whilst writing.

Still think the two posts was a good idea I mean one of the things people say when GW pricing comes up is, if it's too expensive don't buy it, and I think this applies to SH. By this I mean if you like SH, then don't read this post, if you don't like SH, don't read the other post. The divide is too clean cut for the "decided" DakkaDakka users to be persuaded to change their minds, so reading the posts of the "other side" is just going to wind you up. Stops a single post turning into a long drawn out flame war.

Won't buy it because I don't have that nostalgia element. Never played the old one, you see. 100 bucks... Hmm. That's a few squads towards my new Eldar army.

Yeah, at this point I would only spend money on stuff like tanks for my Eldar. Having to consider my spending so much on some of this stuff ticks me off, I can still just wait for good deals though no problem .

Not buying it, it's $185. I can get a good start on my IG army for that much
When I thought about it though, I guess I can play it with normal stuff, the only interesting thing was the SM in a chair and the plastic Librarian (hate metal models ), but those two alone aren't worth the $185.

Well, I am sorry for pouring gas on the fire, so to speak.

And it looks as if Space Hulk is going to generate a lot of strong opinions on both sides.

And that is OK, obviously.

However, it is not OK to attack people personally.

Have at their arguments, but leave the personal stuff out.

Descent: journey intoi darkness is a better board game and much cheaper than space hulk.

unless that game comes with electronic parts or a dvd guiding you through the hulk, it's not worth it.

Alpharius wrote:
I see most of this coming about due to GW's idiotic "MYSTERY BOX" campaign being a complete and total failure, of the Epic Fail variety.

I subscribe this feeling 100%

M.

The rerelease is good.

The hype/conspiracy theory/viral marketing is bad.

The price is bad.

The minis are nice but limited to two armies, one of which is very limited.

It's really a bit of a flash bang parlour trick. The price, as usual with GW, prohibits me from making the purchase, others will buy it, my mate is placing an order today. I don't think it will be quite so limited release as people think though, we will doubtless see a 'due to overwhelming demand' excuse before they put this thing out on ongoing basis. The limited release is probably a sneaky move to stop supporting it once it's sold it's majority and will enable them to not support it a'la specialist games.

@ H.B.M.C

My guess is that you have pre-ordered this game. However, I'm not really sure why you're expending so much energy to defend it?

If people don't want to buy it, and ( God forbid ) wish to discuss the points with other like minded people, whats it to do with you? Will this somehow sour your experience of your purchase?

You posted some lengthy posts about what (in your opinion) constitutes a "valid opinion" on the subject, but I wonder, as someone who has chosen to buy, for whatever reason, is your view on this any more valid then anyone elses?

Now, I'm not trying to supress your opinion, however, it would make for a more reasonable and constructive debate if you didn't attempt to quash everyone elses.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I say we make it a four-sided debate. Board needs a good cluster-feth.

I agree. Perhaps we should discuss the relative merits of Space Hulk buying us, or not buying us.

I am pro-space hulk buying me. I for one, welcome my Board Game Master.

At this point I've got too many alternatives to spend my time on painting this up. I'm also not thrill about the price.

I'd spend $100 on a new FoW army first if I wanted models.
or
I'd spend $100 on something like Arkham Asylum and its expansions if I wanted a board game that is a race against time and has monsters spawning constantly.

This just doesn't tug at me enough with nostalgia to make me want it.

Wrexasaur wrote:This thread was set up with apparently unrealistic expectations of the community at large, and for this reason it should just be closed.

If we adhered to this, no new threads could be started at all, given the sometimes-abysmal overall fitness level of our community.

According to the Dakka polls, most of us are actually of a healthy weight.

Except you fatty. Yeah, you reading this right now. Get outside and get some exercise fer Chrissakes.



On Topic: I don't know if I'll be getting this. Several people in my gaming group are already getting it but I may want it for my non-miniature gaming, board gaming friends.

So I'm on the fence (and will likely make a decision after they are all sold out...).