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Feh. I still have my original SH from circa 1990 and the two expansions. I still play it from time to time and it's still very fun (I don't use the termies that came with it though - those were God-awful). If the rules are pretty much the same as 1st Ed., then I have no reason to spend $100, purdy miniatures or no. If the rules are different - well, let's just say that was the reason I didn't shell out the cash for 2nd Ed. SH (we know how that turned out).

THe price is keeping me away unfortunately. WHile I have 1st ed SH and enjoy it, Id like to get this edition, but what with a 6th child born last week, and the minivan needing a repair, my gaming money is such that it would take me till Christmas to save up for it.

I would buy it.
If it weren't fricking 78 euros and direct only.
For the sake of miniature gaming, someone please go kick those who decide the prices.
Even thought the Terminators are cool

Just out of interest, who thinks that GW will destroy the SH moulds? Probably no one I would imagine, this would then indicate that GW could easily sell the models on their own at some stage. Now this would mean that they recoup their costs for these new sculpts, this negating one of the arguments for the box set being such a high price. It would also mean tha "limited edition / quantity" refers to the all of the bits being put together in a spanking new box, not that the actual product is a genuine "limited edition". Or is that me just being cynical?

In the case of Space Hulk, "limited edition" probably means "metal Librarian & metal Broodlord"

In the regular version, it will be 11 Termies and 21 Genestealers by removing the metal models.

Well, since all you "I'm buying it!" types are crashing our thread, I wonder if some of us shouldn't go ruin your party as well. Purely in the interest of a fair and balanced debate, of course, with well-reasoned counter-arguments etc. etc.

Or whatever bs excuse you came up with to come in here and start attacking everyone who doesn't want to buy it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In the case of Space Hulk, "limited edition" probably means "metal Librarian & metal Broodlord"

In the regular version, it will be 11 Termies and 21 Genestealers by removing the metal models.

Didnt you see the "unboxing" on the all mighty GW site?
There is no metal in this box.

A buddy of mine had some space station terrain comissioned. We'll likely play on that if we play it at all. Carboard terrain for 100 bucks is a travesty. Plus I likely couldn't convince anybody to play that when we could be playing 40k if we're doing miniture gaming or A&A Anniversary Edition/Risk/Dust/Puerto Rico if we're going to do board gaming.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

StrixStruma wrote:(1) Dont Play Space Marines

Box was made to play Space Hulk, not to help Marine players get more Terminators. Silly reason not to buy it.

I play Necrons and it doesn't come with any of those, so should I not buy it because of that?

StrixStruma wrote:(2) Dont PlayTyranids

Box was made to play Space Hulk, not to help Tyranid players get more Genestealers. Silly reason not to buy it.

I play Imperial Guard and it doesn't come with any Guardsmen, so should I not buy it because of that?

StrixStruma wrote:(3) Have better stuff to pay 100 Dollars for.

Perfectly good reason not to buy it.

I disagree about (1) and (2) being silly reasons not to buy it.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of what you're paying for is the models in the SH box. People who play SMs or Nids are not only getting amazing models for playing SH, but also some beautiful additions to their armies that they can use outside of just the SH game. It's a '2 for the price of 1' deal. If you play neither SMs nor Nids, then you're paying a lot of money for models that you'll only use for the solitary purpose of playing SH. The models lack the multi-purpose that they serve to people who'd use them in 40k.

So not only do SM players get SH, but they ALSO get some sweet terminators for their 40k army. Maybe not the primary purpose of SH, but it's definitely strong secondary incentive to buy it.

I mean, if you play Necrons in 40k and SH happened to come with Necrons... You kinda have greater purpose to buy the game, right?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to get extra mileage out of something so costly.

Actually I am going to break down and get one. Even with my discount, I still think it is overpriced. But it's going under the bed, and when the rabid fanboys are looking for an unopened copy after the 'limited run' actually runs out (supposedly); we'll just have to see what the secondary market value of that puppy is.

Wolfstan wrote:Just out of interest, who thinks that GW will destroy the SH moulds? Probably no one I would imagine, this would then indicate that GW could easily sell the models on their own at some stage. Now this would mean that they recoup their costs for these new sculpts, this negating one of the arguments for the box set being such a high price. It would also mean tha "limited edition / quantity" refers to the all of the bits being put together in a spanking new box, not that the actual product is a genuine "limited edition". Or is that me just being cynical?

Considering Praetorians and Cadian/Catachan metals are just about all gone and unavailable from GW's site I don't think there's much of a chance for that to happen. Then again I don't know much about the kit making process.

Since i have the old version of SH and all the expensions i was thinking of not buying this one. But after seeing the lovely models i can't stay away from buying one. My only grudge is that the models should have been vanilla and not BA.

On the price issue, my verdict is easy. That game has a load of more value-for money then we usually get from GW. Those who whine about the price on SH, should stay away from all GW products.

This is not a cheap hobby. Playing cards and chess is.

Archonate wrote:If you play neither SMs nor Nids, then you're paying a lot of money for models that you'll only use for the solitary purpose of playing SH.

And...? You say that like it's a bad thing.

If you buy Space Hulk to play Space Hulk then... you're buying it to play Space Hulk. Not buying it because it doesn't provide you with models for 40K makes about as much sense as not buying Mines of Moria because it doesn't provide you with models for Warmachine - Moria is meant to be a LotR game and a LotR game only, so criticising the game for not providing me with models/materials for Warmachine is simply daft.

Hulk is not an expansion for 40K. Hulk only serves to sell Hulk. Anyone who gets more than that out of the box, such as 'Nid, Marine and especially Blood Angel players, well that's a bonus. But anyone who decries it for not adding to their 40K army needs to get their heads examined because Hulk is not there to provide you with models for 40K - it's only there to provide Hulk.

Archonate wrote:There's nothing wrong with wanting to get extra mileage out of something so costly.

But there is something wrong with placing additional requirements on something when that 'something' was never designed to do that. If you get more out of Hulk than just Hulk, great. But if you were expecting to get more out of Hulk than just Hulk, and aren't buying it because you can't, then you're being foolish as Hulk was never intended to provide any more than just Hulk.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Archonate wrote:If you play neither SMs nor Nids, then you're paying a lot of money for models that you'll only use for the solitary purpose of playing SH.

And...? You say that like it's a bad thing.

SH is a great game, it's not a bad thing at all to buy it for it's own sake... Just not as good as it would be if I played SMs. There is undeniably less incentive for non SM/Nid players to buy it because despite the fact that:

there is something wrong with placing additional requirements on something when that 'something' was never designed to do that

, many people, as 40k players, will inevitably do just that because, like it or not, those models coincide with 40k. Expansion or not.

Some people need that little extra incentive in order to justify the investment... And other people don't...

Cane wrote:

Wolfstan wrote:Just out of interest, who thinks that GW will destroy the SH moulds? Probably no one I would imagine, this would then indicate that GW could easily sell the models on their own at some stage. Now this would mean that they recoup their costs for these new sculpts, this negating one of the arguments for the box set being such a high price. It would also mean tha "limited edition / quantity" refers to the all of the bits being put together in a spanking new box, not that the actual product is a genuine "limited edition". Or is that me just being cynical?

Considering Praetorians and Cadian/Catachan metals are just about all gone and unavailable from GW's site I don't think there's much of a chance for that to happen. Then again I don't know much about the kit making process.

The molds will probably be replicated to suit the needs that GW finds necessary after starting this whole hype-based fiasco.

There is nothing stopping them from keeping the masters, those are what matters. Molds are made and they wear out, how long they actually last is probably pretty irregular on the whole. GW will keep this thing ready to produce again if they need to, but they will not need to.

Archonate wrote:There is undeniably less incentive for non SM/Nid players to buy it...

Only if they want more than Space Hulk. If all they want is Space Hulk, then they get what they pay for. You cannot criticise the game for not containing more than it is supposed to. It didn't set out to provide people with models for their 40K armies, so it should not be expected to and, more importantly, people decisions not to buy it shouldn't rest on the fact that it doesn't provide them with models for a completely different game. It'd be like complaining that Monopoly doesn't give you any cool pieces for Risk.

Archonate wrote:many people, as 40k players, will inevitably do just that because, like it or not, those models coincide with 40k. Expansion or not.

And that's fine. I even did that myself. When I first saw Hulk my initial responce was "Can I use this with the other Hulk tiles?" and "Will the Brood Lord make a good 40K model?", but I'm not going to attack the game or call it worthless or a waste of money because it isn't providing me with things outside of Space Hulk.

I've said it a dozen times now, but I'll say it again - Space Hulk's only aim was to provide players with Space Hulk. If people get get additional use beyond Space Hulk out of Space Hulk, then that's fantastic. If people can't get more out of it (don't play 'Nids, Marines, Blood Angels), and therefore decry the game for not giving them more than just Space Hulk, then they're not thinking straight.

If I buy a power drill it's because I need a power drill. If I find that I can use it to open up cans really quickly, then that's a bonus. I don't cry foul at a power drill because it can't do something it's not intended for.

Is this getting through yet?

I completely understand what you're saying. And I'm not shooting SH down as a game. It is a great game. Probably worth every penny.
Nobody expects SH to be something other than SH. It does what it's supposed to do.
But look at it this way: If I play Necrons, I can spend $100 on SH and think it's the greatest most fantastic game. Totally worth the money. But it won't save me from having to drop another $100 on that squad of Immortals that I need for my army...

If I play SMs however, I get that great game AND I no longer have to spend another $100 on Termies that I needed... Like you said before, it is a nice bonus for SM/Nid players... approximately $100 bonus.

Some people will buy it because it's a great game, whether they want to add the models to their 40k army or not. Others just don't like it enough to do that. (Or for whatever other reasons they might not buy it.) Though they might have, if only they could have used the models for a secondary purpose.

See what I'm sayin?

I think most people have a very solid gaming budget, and more often than not it is around 100$ per month.
(2 video games for instance would cost in excess of 130$ on some occasions, whereas you could get 3 different pieces for your WH40k army. All in all WH40k appears to be a much greater value, and most people that do both video gaming and wargaming inevitably spend more on wargaming, perhaps the same amount in some cases when you factor in the consoles themselves.)

Do note that video games have a much more available resale market, in some cases people will sell a game to a friend at half price so they can both save a bit of money on their purchases. There are reasons I am mentioning this, it is not a huge tangent or anything.

In essence GW has taken that 100$ from a lot of people in hopes that they will somehow have another 100$. Perhaps not in some cases, but that is the general sense I get in this situation.

Creating a light product like this is one of many steps that GW has taken to stay on top of the market... which they may or may not be actually succeeding at on the whole. Are they pushing too far too fast? I think so, but I may be proven wrong. At this point I would be extremely hesitant to invest in GW as a stockholder.

Video games, Board games, War games, what next? Plushies are not too far off.

I'll wait for a friend to buy it/store to open one for gaming sessions.

As it stands, the price is jacked up waaaayyy higher here in Malaysia

$100 is actually RM360-380. Most stores sell at a $1=RM4 ratio to offset fluctuations in price + shipping. Understandable.

For GW products, however, the ratio is $1=RM5. wtf? does GW have their own currency?

Archonate wrote:I completely understand what you're saying. And I'm not shooting SH down as a game. It is a great game. Probably worth every penny.
Nobody expects SH to be something other than SH. It does what it's supposed to do.
But look at it this way: If I play Necrons, I can spend $100 on SH and think it's the greatest most fantastic game. Totally worth the money. But it won't save me from having to drop another $100 on that squad of Immortals that I need for my army...

If I play SMs however, I get that great game AND I no longer have to spend another $100 on Termies that I needed... Like you said before, it is a nice bonus for SM/Nid players... approximately $100 bonus.

Some people will buy it because it's a great game, whether they want to add the models to their 40k army or not. Others just don't like it enough to do that. (Or for whatever other reasons they might not buy it.) Though they might have, if only they could have used the models for a secondary purpose.

See what I'm sayin?

I actually agree with both yourself and H.B.M.C on this one!

Hulk is Hulk! end of story.....but going back to one of my original points in this thread, the thing that bumms me off, is GWs lack of creativness to widen the spectrum so that more armies could be fielded in the game! Would it have been so difficult to open up the possibility in the rules to allow for Eldar vs IG, or Necrons vs CSM to fight it out on a Space Hulk? Hell, modern fluff supports that all manner of creature use Hulks as legitimate transport across the galaxy, from Daemons to Orks.....so in tying it down to SM vs Nids has alienated (no pun intended) alot of potential buyers......

What will be even worse, with the limited run mentality they have announced, is if in later expansions, they DO open up the field to other armies, by then alot of people would have missed out, and POP, GW will further drag their own name through the mud....

Since I'm not entirely familiar with SH's rules and whatnot, what is it about the rules that stops people from using their own IG/Eldar/etc... figures with the board and mission rules?

It seems to me that if the combat works out in a similar fashion (or the exact same fashion) as 40k, then it would be relatively easy to shift other armies into the mix.

I'm sure I'm just left out on part of the details that prevent this, but can someone clarify it for me? Thanks

Delephont wrote:... the thing that bumms me off, is GWs lack of creativness to widen the spectrum so that more armies could be fielded in the game! Would it have been so difficult to open up the possibility in the rules to allow for Eldar vs IG, or Necrons vs CSM to fight it out on a Space Hulk? Hell, modern fluff supports that all manner of creature use Hulks as legitimate transport across the galaxy, from Daemons to Orks.....so in tying it down to SM vs Nids has alienated (no pun intended) alot of potential buyers...

This is an interesting point and is worth discussing.

There's another Hulk thread (one of the six billion we have right now) speculating what might come next, and what is likely to be another thing GW has "never done before" (). People have mentioned Man'O'War, Gorkamorka, Necromunda and so on getting the 'new edition' treatment with a big expensive box release and whatnot. My line of thinking there was that none of these games are likely, and we're more likely to see a new version of Warhammer Quest than anything else, because, like Hulk, Quest is self-contained.

Think about Hulk and Quest for a second. Big boxed games. Came with everything you needed to play the game in a single box. The expansions were completely non-mandatory. You didn't have to buy Genestealer for Hulk just like you didn't have to buy Lair of the Orc Lord for Quest. These games can exist in a vacuum and therefore - and this is what would be important for GW - require no support. Once you have a copy of Hulk, that's it, you have a complete game. You don't have to go out and buy an army or get a Codex or anything like that. It is an entity unto itself.

This is why I think that expansions and additional rules for Hulk falls under the category of "unlikely". It's more models that you have to buy, more rules you have to buy and more support that GW has to give. This new version of Hulk seems to combine bits from Deathwing and Genestealer in it to ensure that they don't have to make expansions, and while it'd be nice to get rules for Orks and for Chaos Marines and so on, doing that only increases the amount of support GW would have to to give the game, and I truly believe that GW made this game specifically because it requires no support - it supports itself really.

Someone else said in this thread or one of the others that the community will take over and write rules themselves. Additionally, as the rules, from what I've heard, are so similar to 1st Ed, it won't take much tweaking to get all the additional rules for Power Armour and Grey Knights and whatever from the expansions (both official and unofficial) to work with this new game.

In a perfect world we'd get rules for all sorts of things, but our perfect world and GW's perfect world are different to one another. Their perfect world is to release something and not have to think about it ever again. Sometimes this works - Hulk doesn't really need anything else as it works on its own. Sometimes it doesn't - does anyone at GW remember something called 'Planet Strike' that they released only two months ago? That seems to have dropped completely off the radar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadowRocket wrote:Since I'm not entirely familiar with SH's rules and whatnot, what is it about the rules that stops people from using their own IG/Eldar/etc... figures with the board and mission rules?

It seems to me that if the combat works out in a similar fashion (or the exact same fashion) as 40k, then it would be relatively easy to shift other armies into the mix.

It's a nice idea, but sadly no. Hulk's rules are completely removed from that of 40K. Units do not have statlines, weapons don't have statlines, armour is relatively meaningless. You have 'action points' for each Terminator, which he uses up by moving, turning, shooting, opening doors. HTH is resolved just by rolling the highest dice. You've got overwatch and so on and so forth.

You could convert things over using Terminators and Genestealers as the benchmark, but that's about it.

So, yeah, nice idea, but sadly it doesn't work that way.

H.B.M.C wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadowRocket wrote:Since I'm not entirely familiar with SH's rules and whatnot, what is it about the rules that stops people from using their own IG/Eldar/etc... figures with the board and mission rules?

It seems to me that if the combat works out in a similar fashion (or the exact same fashion) as 40k, then it would be relatively easy to shift other armies into the mix.

It's a nice idea, but sadly no. Hulk's rules are completely removed from that of 40K. Units do not have statlines, weapons don't have statlines, armour is relatively meaningless. You have 'action points' for each Terminator, which he uses up by moving, turning, shooting, opening doors. HTH is resolved just by rolling the highest dice. You've got overwatch and so on and so forth.

You could convert things over using Terminators and Genestealers as the benchmark, but that's about it.

So, yeah, nice idea, but sadly it doesn't work that way.

Ah ok. It just seemed that there wasnt much difference on appearance. And while I suppose you could come up with alloted actions for different factions and statlines of sorts for guns, it does seem like a bit of trouble to go through just to play SH with guard or Eldar.
Thanks HBMC

Delephont wrote:
*snip*
Would it have been so difficult to open up the possibility in the rules to allow for Eldar vs IG, or Necrons vs CSM to fight it out on a Space Hulk?
*unsnip*

Why, that's what $70 expansion packs are for!

I only see GW moving in that direction. That's probably in the game plan already.

I’m rather glad that that GW has resisted the temptation to include other races in SH. Space Hulk works best when it’s in its simplest form. Personally I was never that fond of the Genestear/Deathwing expansions and thought they added little more than dead weight to a system that already worked perfectly well.

If you really want to add other races then rules where made and published in WD back in the days of 1st edition for most other races and are available in the Space Hulk Campaign book available on eBay or on Space Hulk fan sites internet wide for free! If the rules haven’t changed that much from 1st (and by the sound of it they haven’t) they should still function perfectly well. No need for an expansion at all.

We already have Space Hulk in our group. The mystery box promotion
was aggravating but has no bearing on my interest in the product (companies
build interest in their stuff like this, I get it). And in the end, Space Hulk
is only fun up a certain point. It's "Gawd I love Aliens" fun and not "requiring
strategy guides to play the game" fun.

It's "Gawd I love Aliens" fun and not "requiring
strategy guides to play the game" fun.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It only takes you so far, though. Not 100 dollars far for me.

H.B.M.C. wrote: .......In a perfect world we'd get rules for all sorts of things, but our perfect world and GW's perfect world are different to one another. Their perfect world is to release something and not have to think about it ever again. Sometimes this works - Hulk doesn't really need anything else as it works on its own. Sometimes it doesn't - does anyone at GW remember something called 'Planet Strike' that they released only two months ago? That seems to have dropped completely off the radar.
.......

Yes, but remember, we're discussing reasons why NOT to buy the game!!

I understand how your theory on GW marketing strategy could well be true, but for me, this is one reason not to spend money on the game.

Am I expecting too much from the game? Possibly, but then this is the decision any potential buyer will have to make, does this game meet their expectations? yes or no!

On a seperate point. I could write my own rules, create my own scenery, hell, I could make my own game!!! However, if I was going to go to all that "trouble" I wouldn't bother with GWs background at all! I'd start from scratch and do something completely devoid of Space Marines.....but again, thats a personal choice.

I haven't pre-ordered yet because I bought a used DSi and some games this week, and I don't have the budget for it yet.

My main reservation is that US $99 for 12 terminators and 23 genestealers is only a good deal if you consider that the regular price for GW miniatures is 'fair', and if the new Space Hulk plastic is comparable to the regular plastic sprues. If the Space Hulk figures are snap-fit figures like the AoBR plastic, it's being sold cheaper because it's less expensive. If that's the case, I'd rather just wait and see if Fantasy Flight Games is going to release a non-Special Edition later.

Also, I don't play Tyranids or Blood Angels, and I'm not interested in playing the eBay game selling them off in a few months, so it just doesn't seem particularly compelling.