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They'd say ten as a sales pitch, lol.

I think I will include the new rules and models, which means I need to work on the next army.

Melissia wrote:They'd say ten as a sales pitch, lol.

Bring out the Truth Serum?

Ediin wrote:@Dark Eldar dilemma, I'd run down to my Gw and point a gun at the staff. If they don't tell you how awesome the new Dark Eldar will be on a
scale of 1-10, you shoot one of them and ask again. Problem solved!

I like this idea it might work out in your favor and if they just throw out a 10 and don't explain shoot 2 more of them.

The only thing I agree on is tyranids...space bugs don't appeal to me.

Necrons are ok, their fluff might not be the coolest, but I think they have some interesting aspects.

Black Templars, meh, I don't really like their models, but I don't think they deserve 13th.

I would have eldar in dead last, I despise their models, and how they play, then SoB. Space Nuns with guns?


I do give you credit, and I will be watching your thread to see your further opinions, keep up the good work.

Yeah, LOL at the possibility of SOB scoring near last on any list made by Melissia.

the_ferrett wrote:*Must not snark at the complainers. Must not snark the complainers*

So if I were to snark at you, would that be complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining about the game?

I'll hazard a guess: Next will be Tau, Blood Angels, or Dark Angels.

AlexHolker wrote:How many armies do you not play?

Eldar.
Dark Eldar.
Orks.
Blood Angels.
Space Wolves.
Dark Angels.
Tau.
Daemons (I have enough Daemons to have a very big Daemon army, I just don't play Daemons because the army is slowed)
Grey Knights (do have a big Daemonhunter/Inquisitorial army, just no GK's in it)

What else...?

Sisters.


Hell I've even got armies that aren't 'real' as far as current 40K is concerned:

Adeptus Mechanicus
Deathwatch
Lost & The Damned
Genestealer Cult

Necroman wrote:Yeah, LOL at the possibility of SOB scoring near last on any list made by Melissia.

the_ferrett wrote:*Must not snark at the complainers. Must not snark the complainers*

So if I were to snark at you, would that be complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining about the game?

I'll hazard a guess: Next will be Tau, Blood Angels, or Dark Angels.

Touche, good sir, Touche!

So where are the witch hunters?
Ancient fluff that nearly pre-dates the old ones.
Boring mono-pose models.
Again with the models, but the quality of them this time.
Irritating rules that need updating badly.

The list goes on.
But i want to see how you compare these points to your own views of them, as you seem to have a pretty big obsession with the SoB.

Hm, this thread gets more interesting the longer it goes on. I shall monitor it closely.

Of course, really I just want to see where the Orks end up.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:So where are the witch hunters?
Ancient fluff that nearly pre-dates the old ones.

That ancient fluff is still good. While I'd like to see the major Orders fleshed out more, better what we have now than the sort of garbage they put in the latest Tyranids codex.

Boring mono-pose models.
Again with the models, but the quality of them this time.

Yes, the models are the army's greatest weakness. 50 pounds for a single squad of 13 year old basic infantry is insane.

Irritating rules that need updating badly.

Really, I think what the Acts of Faith need most is to become something you can use at will, instead of the unnatural interruption at the start of the phase.

Interesting posts so far by Melissia, for the most part I agree with them. The whole Tyranids > everyone is annoying. What happened to Orks being the dominant race IF they all banded together?

I don't think the Necrons will develop well unless they drastically change the fluff.

I hate CSM, I don't think Chaos fits into 40k very well to begin with and I think CSM are just silly. And then there's the little fact that 3.5 was also better. I wish 40k just had the Imperium dealing with Xenos threats, but we just have to have Chaos don't we?

Necroman wrote:Yeah, LOL at the possibility of SOB scoring near last on any list made by Melissia.

the_ferrett wrote:*Must not snark at the complainers. Must not snark the complainers*

So if I were to snark at you, would that be complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining about the game?

I'll hazard a guess: Next will be Tau, Blood Angels, or Dark Angels.

I'd say Tau is a good bet, a still 4th Ed. codex plus paper-thin, enigmatic fluff.

I think you hit the nail on the head as to what makes Tyranids such a good army. They have no personality - well, they do, but not individually. If you are looking for an army with heroes, they're not it by a long shot. But they're a very unique race in 40k, the most visually unique, and they make great adversaries. I like being that adversary for people.

edit - You also gave me a badass idea for a Tyranid Prime. So simple I never thought of it. Convert a Lictor model.

Yeah, that's what I intend to do if I ever start a Tyranid army-- convert a lictor into a tyranid prime.

Out of all of the units in the Tyranid army, the Lictor is the coolest to me anyway, in both fluff concept and model.

I was babysitting for much of yesterday, I'll work on it after class.

What I always hated about the Necrons and Tyranids was that they seem to take away from what is the central conflict of WH40k. I always felt that the endgame should be Chaos v.s. Imperium. Now Chaos seems to be much less of a threat than the Tyranids or the Necrons and I think it detracts from what I think should be the real fight.

Don't particularly agree with what you have said about CSM. To me they are pretty great (though they do sometimes have pretty lame fluff... and just how many times can they fail to invade the Imperium without some form or re-election? ).

They have one of the best conversion possibilities of any army as well

But each to their own.

As far as end game goes, I don't think it's fair to have it soley be Chaos vs. IoM. I think every faction should have an equal shot at the IoM, in fact I always thought the only criteria for an army being playable was if it was a threat to the humans.

The story of 40k has always been to me the IoM fighting to the bloody end on countless fronts with an array of diverse and deadly foes, not just chaos.

Yeah I so far agree with you on the 3 codexs. And i completely agree with you on the necrons. And that they are a bit overpowered in fluff.

I didn't mean that the entire endgame would just be Imperium v.s. Chaos, I just wanted the resolution of the Imperium's plot to come from Chaos rather than from the Tyranids or Necrons. It just seems to me that with the whole Horus Heresy and Black Crusades thing, to have the Necrons or Tyranids end the Imperium would be unfufilling.

Ah I see what you mean. You know even if it's just a "what if" novel or something it would be cool if there was a series of books that had terra besieged, one book for every faction.

I like that idea. Then we get a bunch of alternate endings to satisfy every fanbase, culminating in a "BUT... what if the Imperium wins?" right at the end.

Consider me riveted to this thread. I'm interested to see where all of my armies lie.

I'm a little bit sad about your take on two of my favorite armies (that I don't actually play... yet), BT and Nids.

The whole Crusader pastiche of the Black Templars puts them high on my list, and I'm a raving, blubbering Starship Troopers fanboi, so Nids are easily one of my favorite 40k armies.

I'm calling Orks at #1.

Because Melissia has stated that this thread is about more than just fluff, and because I know she dislikes the current SoB model range and isn't wild about their rules, I'd say we'll see them much lower on the list than we expect. I'm calling Codex: WH (she'll get it right) at #10.

Guard, probably #2 - I've heard her extoll the virtues of Guard fluff, and I'm almost certain she likes their rules and models.

I have a feeling my Tau will end up ranking fairly low.

These sort of threads I always find interesting because it shows the diversity in gamers.

Example #1 being that where Melissa dislikes the Necron background I personally love it, it's why I've just started collecting them. That's two opposing opinons of the same game, brilliant. It's that diversisty that opens the game to a wider audience and keeps it going. As I said, brilliant.

I <3 this thread!

Personally, I don't think WH40K would lose much if they took out Necrons in their current incarnation. They need to do something really cool like they did with the Dark Eldar to make them 3-dimentional and interesting.

Ugavine wrote:These sort of threads I always find interesting because it shows the diversity in gamers.

Example #1 being that where Melissa dislikes the Necron background I personally love it, it's why I've just started collecting them. That's two opposing opinons of the same game, brilliant. It's that diversisty that opens the game to a wider audience and keeps it going. As I said, brilliant.

I dislike what's currently done with it, but I explicitly stated I like the potential that the faction has.

Apparently I'm being made to chauffeur people around today... I'll have it done tonight when I'm not being asked to waste gas on pointless ventures.

Go get a cab meter, just to see the looks on their faces when you start it.

Smarteye wrote:I <3 this thread!

Personally, I don't think WH40K would lose much if they took out Necrons in their current incarnation. They need to do something really cool like they did with the Dark Eldar to make them 3-dimentional and interesting.

When did this happen?

I kid...I still think they are little more than Eldar with SM fetishes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Ugavine wrote:These sort of threads I always find interesting because it shows the diversity in gamers.

Example #1 being that where Melissa dislikes the Necron background I personally love it, it's why I've just started collecting them. That's two opposing opinons of the same game, brilliant. It's that diversisty that opens the game to a wider audience and keeps it going. As I said, brilliant.

I dislike what's currently done with it, but I explicitly stated I like the potential that the faction has.

Apparently I'm being made to chauffeur people around today... I'll have it done tonight when I'm not being asked to waste gas on pointless ventures.

I am bored this is unaccpetable.

I should note that I don't really dislike any of the low ranking factions/codices, the reason they're low ranking is a combination of competitiveness, appeal, how much they fit into my view of 40k. Personally I think that, outside of Chaos Space Marines, all of the factions have concepts that greatly appeal to me. It's just a matter of their execution-- some of them were done far better than others. Which of course brings me to:

12: TAU EMPIRE


Along with the Necrons, the Tau and their Empire were added in after the conclusion of second edition. Of the two, this faction fared far better, but could still use some work.

Just like with Black Templars, there's some things I like about the army, that entice me to try it out... yet... they're poorly executed. The Tau fluff was originally unambiguously "the good guys", making them fit in like an executioner's block in a preschool building. GW has tried to move them away from that since then, but I feel they haven't done enough to do so. The fact that they try and make the Tau to be a credible threat on par with everything else also is questionable, as they do so even when they emphasize how little territory the Tau actually have at the moment.

Originally, Dark Eldar was in this position. But Dark Eldar's playstyle and models, and possibly fluff, look to be greatly improved with the upcoming codex, and so they're bumped up. Which is unfortunate for the Tau, because frankly I think they have a lot of potential. It's just that they haven't had enough fluff, or enough models, or enough rules to build on that potential. The rules kinda suffer in fifth edition, and they weren't actually THAT great in fourth edition anyway (though they were better than they are now, with fifth edition codices out). I imagine they will move up quite a few spots when the fifth edition codex comes out, probably sometime late next year or early the year after. I look forward to it, and hope they don't do any more stupid things like "Tau can defeat a Tyranid fleet without a single casualty!". As much as I despise the more over the top Tyranid fluff, come ON! They're not THAT incompetent!

The parts of the Tau fluff that I like actually tend to be on how naieve they are, but eventually they're going to have to learn the harsh, unforgiving, merciless truth of the 40k galaxy. And I rub my hands with psychotic glee over how much that realization might change their way of thinking, way of life, and way of warfare. But the Tau at least have the firepower to withstand it a bit longer, and I hope they do. They're one of the more alien factions in the setting, and at the same time, their purely scientific view on warfare and technology is refreshing and has a lot of potential... both for units, AND for potential conflicts revolving it rogue AIs. And the fact that they are an empire of many races brings hope to me that the fifth edition codex will really let you go crazy with the auxiliaries-- be they human, kroot, demiurg, or what have you. It's a part of the army list that reminds me of the Roman Empire and their use of foreign light auxiliaries in support of their legions, and I like such historical references.

So despite it s seemingly low rating, the Tau Empire, much like the previous codex, has a lot of potential. It just feels wasted, with mediocre, incomplete, and often over the top fluff, and rules which have suffered due to age. I sincerely hope GW's fifth edition release makes me want to buy a Tau army.

Props to ChiliPowderKeg for calling Tau for spot number 12!

Unfortunately, I agree... as much as I love the Tau, they just seem too damn lucky. Defeating an entire Hive Fleet without losing a single ship? Standing against the IMPERIUM at Damocles? And they only survived that one because the Imperium was distracted by Hive Fleet Behemoth. They're a tiny empire in a big galaxy.

However, I do very much like some of the more sinister overtones they've been given, with the heavily implied brainwashing, indoctrination, and mind control in their codex, and the outright gleeful sterilization and concentration camps discussed in Dawn of War. They're getting grimdarker, but they've got a ways to go before they really fit.

But a young, ambitious alien empire that's not afraid to make some shiny technology is definitely near the top of my list. Just under the ever-hilarious Orks, in fact.

I predict another Space Marine book at 11. I'm guessing Dark Angels.

I agree with the placement of Tau, but not entirely with the reasoning (the fluff bit). They are naive and that pisses me off, but it's the "mysterious ethereal caste" that influence the Tau this way. They were warring like a legit race before these obviously eldar/old one equivalents rocked up and turned them communist.