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I am all in favor of Commissar O'Reilly and Sergeant Agis. I love characters who do awesome deeds but who do not take themselves too seriously.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Now I feel like making one. I have always loved the Plague Champion from 40K, and I have included something inspired by that in the Glacier Serpents' fluff.
Plague Champion Karnus
145 points
WS6 BS5 S4 T5 W3 I4 A3 LD10 SV3+
Wargear: Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Blight Grenades, Blighted Bolter, Plague Knife, Blighted Bolt Pistol, Sigil of Corruption, Mark of Nurgle
Special Rules: Fearless, Feel no Pain, Cloud of Flies, Independent Character
Cloud of Flies: Once per game, in the beginning of the Movement phase, Karnus can call upon a thick swarm of unholy insects to surround him; concealing his allies and trying to devour the eyes of his enemies. The Cloud of Flies grants a 5+ cover save to all allied models within 6". Furthermore, in the Assault phase following its activation, every enemy model within 6" count as being hit by a weapon with the Blind special rule. The Cloud lasts for the rest of the game turn.
Upgrades:
May replace Plague Knife with Plaguesword +20 pts
May replace Plague Knife with Plague Fist +30 pts
May replace Blighted Bolt Pistol or Blighted Bolter with Bile Spewer +15 pts
Icon of Decay: At the end of every Assault phase, every enemy model within 6" of Karnus takes a S2 AP- hit, distributed as for shooting.
Soul Blaze represents the nasty "DoT" effect that his plagued shells and strikes leave behind, creating small plague clouds. Toying with the idea of T6. Not too sure about points values, might need tweaking, but what do you think, Dakka?
Edit: Fixed typos
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 03:03:20
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Now I feel like making one. I have always loved the Plague Champion from 40K, and I have included something inspired by that in the Glacier Serpents' fluff.
Special Rules: Fearless, Feel no Pain, Cloud of Flies
Cloud of Flies: Once per game, in the beginning of the Movement phase, Karnus can call upon a thick swarm of unholy insects to surround him, concealing his allies and trying to devour the eyes of his enemies. The Cloud of Flies grants a 5+ cover save to all allied models within 6". Furthermore, in the Assault phase following its activation, every enemy model within 6" count as being hit by a weapon with the Blind special rule. The Cloud lasts for the rest of the game turn.
Upgrades:
May replace Plague Knife with Plaguesword +15 pts
May replace Plague Knife with Plague Fist +25 pts
May replace Blighted Bolt Pistol or Blighted Bolter with Bile Spewer +10 pts
Icon of Decay: At the end of every Assault phase, every enemy model within 6" of Karnus takes a S2 AP- hit, distributed as for shooting.
Soul Blaze represents the nasty "DoT" effect that his plagued shells and strikes leave behind, creating small plague clouds. Toying with the idea of T6. Not too sure about points values, might need tweaking, but what do you think, Dakka?
Edit: Fixed typos
Alrighty Then, lets ease myself back into reviewing stuff with this guy!
Welcome Brother Haraldus to homebrewing, I'm Ovion and I'll be your reviewer today.
I've been a bit busy of late, so haven't been able to comment in this thread as I like, helping people with this stuff is pretty fun.
(Too much?)
This will be an unbiased and impartial costing and review.
My first comment is you forgot to give him Mark of Nurgle. I'm assuming it's meant to be an IC too?
Adding that in.
Cost:
Spoiler:
Chaos Lord - 65
+1T (See MoN)
-1I -10
+Blight Grenades +10
+Blighted Bolter +5
+Blighted Bolt Pistol +5
+Plague Knife +5
+Sigil of Corruption +25
+FnP +10
+Cloud of Flies +15
Total: 145
The Plaguesword should probably be 20pts and the Plaguefist should be 30.
The Bile Spewer should certainly be at least 15pts, while the Icon of Decay is probably fine at 15-20.
Overall it's a nice straightforward character, nothing too OTT, and pretty simple overall.
I went in expecting it to be undercosted to be honest, and was pleasantly surprised.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
I am epically forgetful tonight. I forgot MoN and IC? Stupid me!
Thanks for your review. I think one custom character suffices for the Glacier Serpents leadership; special converted models that counts-as Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman and Lucius will suffice for the rest.
I think I could have him make Plague Marines troops without him being OP as well. After all, it's what a normal CSM lord with MoN does.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 03:05:09
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
Lets try going once more for the tau odd paths, this time going the broadside boss path, with rail weaponry.
Intended to go for a "press the attack" action, with his destructive weaponry, ability to support nearby units, his less-then-usual range for a rail weapon, and the fact he is a hard nut to crack, but on the other hand he must rely on himself, and part of the way he helps his army, is putting himself into danger.
And he really dislikes AP2 fire, considering he can't join squads and got no drones to take the heat.
Proper fluff to be added later, for now just a rules review would be nice.
(and yes, I am aware the gun is incredible, but do consider it is at the cost of dropping both a TLHYMP and a TLSMS compared to a broadside, pretty good guns on their own rights)
Special Rules: Independent Character, Slow and Purposeful, Stance of Solitude.
Trait: Inspiring Presence (from rulebook)
Cyclic Rail Rifle: This experimental rifle is an attempt to combine the raw strength and versatility of rail weaponry with the high fire rates of cycling weaponry, resulting a gun that is capable of eliminating any target, however due to its extreme difficulty to operate and lacking range the creation was deemed not enough to be worth the abnormal production costs, and only the prototype remain. The Cyclic Rail Rifle has two fire modes:
Standard: Range: 30, S8 AP1, heavy 3
Submmunition: Range 30, S4 AP4, Heavy 3 Blast.
Singularity Generator:A failed attempt in creating a new shield generator that empowered gravitational forced to push away enemy fire and add enough force to make it return to the enemy, the Singularity Generator has accidentally created the opposite effect. while at first deemed to be worthless, Dam'ail saw the hidden potential in the device and request it for field testing. The singularity Generator allows to redirect any shooting attack made against a unit within 6" to the user on a roll of 4+ (roll as a Look out Sir!), the surrounding gravitational ripples also reduces the strength of shooting attacks that hit the bearer by 2.
Stance of Solitude:Due to the ripples created by the Singularity Generator, Dars'vil find it irresponsible to be too close to his allies, as he might interrupt their own weapons. Shas'o Dam'ail many never join units, nor may other Independent Characters join him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/04 00:02:33
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
The Hand of Puretide[155+pts] - The first of a 2nd Generation of Puretide successors, having learned at the base of his holoprojector, These students test the work of the Earth Caste preservation technology against original 3 successors.
WS4 BS5 S5 T4 S4 W4 I3 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
Equipment: Crisis Suit, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, Stimulant Injectors
Special Rules: Independent Character
The Arts of War-During the deployment phase, choose one path of war and note it down.
Path of Kauyon - During deployment, d2+1 units gain the Infiltrate USR, however, none can be placed in Outflank reserve.
Mont'ka Reversal - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. When that turn arrives, that number +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter.
Path of Mont'ka - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. Before that turn arrives, d3 +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter.
Kauyon Reversal - When the specified turn arrives, that number +1 units arriving from reserve add +1 to their reserve rolls. In addition, any unit arriving from reserve may choose to arrive via outflank or deepstrike.
Not sure how to cost his special rule. What does everyone else think? I got the idea for it from the Red Hunter Chapter Tactic.
General M. Perez turned from being his systems only hope against the increasing genestealer infection problem, to its worst nightmare, when he got infected by a genestealer hybrids kiss.
Now he uses his vast political power to infest the higher echelons in the planetary defence force and the imperial guard regiments under his control. His former special anti-genestealer task force has been turned into crazed brood brothers and devious 3rd and 4th generation hybrids. He has "lent" those task forces out to several planetary governors fearing the genestealer menace, thereby increasing his span of control.
Sgt Leland Purvis is one of his best cards in his hands.
Sgt Leland Purvis is one of the few members of the task-force that has fought alongside a tyranid invasion, and subsequently survived by "fleeing" with the remaining human survivors. Imperial guard commanders are fond of requesting his assistance in various campaigns, as they arent aware of his true allegiance. He can even be seen figthing against tyranid organisms. But its all a brilliant ploy by the hive mind, to ensure the commanders trust him, for him to get close enough to infect them.
He has a hybrid oviposter instead of a human tongue, which makes his speech a bit slurred, he also has a third arm ending in a wicked talon hidden under his armoured clothing which he uses to full effect in close combat when there are no imperial witnesses.
Elite choice for both imperial guard and tyranids. Tyranids needs 1+ Genestealer broods to be able to field Sgt Leland Purvis and his squad.
Stormtrooper sergeant Leland Purvis and squad cost 125 pts ?
WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W 2 I 4 A3 LD9 SV4+ Sgt Leland Purvis
Unit composition
1 sergeant purvis
4 stormtrooper cultists
type
infantry
character (Sgt Purvis only)
Unique (Sgt Purvis only)
wargear (all)
carapace armour
hotshot las pistol
hotshot lasgun
close combat weapon
frag grenades
krak grenades
defensive grenades
scything talon (Sgt Purvis only)
Special rules
deepstrike
special operations
genestealer cultist
fleet
hit and run
sergeant only:
rending assault
aura of despair
hypnotic gaze
Options
may add up to 5 stormtrooper cultists for 16 point per model
up to 2 stormtrooper cultists may exchange their hotshot lasgun with:
flamer: 5 pts
grenade launcher: 5 pts
meltagun: 10 pts
plasmagun: 15 pts
Rending claw: 5 pts
Scything talon: free
Genestealer cultists:
counts as tyranid, genestealers and imperial guard regarding prefered enemy, hatred, powers etc.
Not subject to instinctive behavior, becomes fearless when within 12” of friendly genestealers.
has the one eye open special rule against friendly imperial guard. (the team mates spend their turn, explaining their spooked comrade that he did NOT see a third mutant arm on that stormtrooper over there, he is clearly stressed out and need to do some cleansing prayers)
Rending assault:
The first turn in any closecombat, Sgt Leland Purvis counts as having the rending ability. I know, its boring with just another rend ability, should he have poisoned attacks instead?
[/i]3edit, different layout, thanks to Ovion
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/11/10 14:30:25
The Hand of Puretide[155+pts] - The first of a 2nd Generation of Puretide successors, having learned at the base of his holoprojector, These students test the work of the Earth Caste preservation technology against original 3 successors. WS4 BS5 S5 T4 S4 W4 I3 A4 Ld10 Sv3+ Equipment: Crisis Suit, Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, Stimulant Injectors Special Rules: Independent Character The Arts of War-During the deployment phase, choose one path of war and note it down. Path of Kauyon - During deployment, d2+1 units gain the Infiltrate USR, however, none can be placed in Outflank reserve. Mont'ka Reversal - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. When that turn arrives, that number +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter.
Path of Mont'ka - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. Before that turn arrives, d3 +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter. Kauyon Reversal - When the specified turn arrives, that number +1 units arriving from reserve add +1 to their reserve rolls. In addition, any unit arriving from reserve may choose to arrive via outflank or deepstrike.
Not sure how to cost his special rule. What does everyone else think? I got the idea for it from the Red Hunter Chapter Tactic.
Price up the guy + his gear, and call the Arts of War rule 50pts. (Don't have the time to do a proper pricing and review atm, hope this helps )
Britneyfan12 wrote:
Spoiler:
General M. Perez turned from being his systems only hope against the increasing genestealer infection problem, to its worst nightmare, when he got infected by a genestealer hybrids kiss. Now he uses his vast political power to infest the higher echelons in the planetary defence force and the imperial guard regiments under his control. His former special anti-genestealer task force has been turned into crazed brood brothers and devious 3rd and 4th generation hybrids. He has "lent" those task forces out to several planetary governors fearing the genestealer menace, thereby increasing his span of control. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of his best cards in his hands. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of the few members of the task-force that has fought alongside a tyranid invasion, and subsequently survived by "fleeing" with the remaining human survivors. Imperial guard commanders are fond of requesting his assistance in various campaigns, as they arent aware of his true allegiance. He can even be seen figthing against tyranid organisms. But its all a brilliant ploy by the hive mind, to ensure the commanders trust him, for him to get close enough to infect them. He has a hybrid oviposter instead of a human tongue, which makes his speech a bit slurred, he also has a third arm ending in a wicked talon hidden under his armoured clothing which he uses to full effect in close combat when there are no imperial witnesses.
Elite choice for both imperial guard and tyranids. Tyranids needs 1+ Genestealer broods to be able to field Sgt Leland Purvis and his squad.
Stormtrooper sergeant Leland Purvis cost 125 pts ? wsbs s t w i a ldsv 5 4 3 3 2 4 3 9 4 Sgt Leland Purvis 4 4 3 3 1 4 2 8 4 Stormtrooper cultist
composition________________wargear_____________special rules__________Options 1 sergeant purvis__________carapace armour______deepstrike____________may add up to 5 stormtrooper cultists for 16 point pr model 4 stormtrooper cultists______hotshot las pistol______ special operations_____up to 2 stormtrooper cultists may exchange their hotshot lasgun with: ________________________hotshot lasgun________genestealer cultist_____flamer 5 pts type____________________ close combat weapon__ fleet_________________grenade launcher 5 pts infantry__________________frag grenades_________hit and run____________meltagun 10 pts character (SGT only)_______krak grenades________ sergeant only:_________plasmagun 15 pts ________________________defensive grenades____rending assault________Rending claw 5 pts ________________________sergeant only:________ aura of despair________Scything talon free ________________________scything talon_________hypnotic gaze
Genestealer cultists: counts as tyranid, genestealers and imperial guard regarding prefered enemy, hatred, powers etc. Not subject to instinctive behavior, becomes fearless when within 12” of friendly genestealers. has the one eye open special rule against friendly imperial guard. (the team mates spend their turn, explaining their spooked comrade that he did NOT see a third mutant arm on that stormtrooper over there, he is clearly stressed out and need to do some cleansing prayers)
Rending assault: The first turn in any closecombat, Sgt Leland Purvis counts as having the rending ability.
Also, because it's from 2 different books, the special rules / unique wargear of both ideally want to be in the unit entry, so that if people were using it with either force, they'd have all the 'missing' rules.
Later when I have time I'll filter it through my template then review it. (If you haven't already ran it through the template, in which case I'll just review it).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/10 12:31:31
Ovion wrote: Price up the guy + his gear, and call the Arts of War rule 50pts.
(Don't have the time to do a proper pricing and review atm, hope this helps )
So 205pts it is then, thanks. I've been following your pricing guidelines for some time now. The only caveat was that the Arts was such a different rule I had little to compare it too.
Also, a slight change to the original wording:
The Arts of War-During the deployment phase, choose one path of war and note it down.
Path of Kauyon - During deployment, d2+1 units gain the Stealth and Infiltrate USRs, however, none can be placed in Outflank reserve.
Mont'ka Reversal - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. When that turn arrives, that number +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter for that turn.
My intention for this rule is to allow the units that infiltrate to act as bait until the Hammer of Mont'ka could be dropped.
Path of Mont'ka - After deployment, but before the first turn, mark down a turn number. Until that turn arrives, d3 +1 units gain Shred and Tank Hunter.
Kauyon Reversal - When the specified turn arrives, that number +1 units arriving from reserve add +1 to their reserve rolls. In addition, any unit arriving from reserve may choose to arrive via outflank or deepstrike.
My intentions for this one was to Mont'ka units to draw aggro until a mass concentrated reserve comes in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/10 18:10:10
Ovion wrote: Price up the guy + his gear, and call the Arts of War rule 50pts.
(Don't have the time to do a proper pricing and review atm, hope this helps )
So 205pts it is then, thanks. I've been following your pricing guidelines for some time now. The only caveat was that the Arts was such a different rule I had little to compare it too.
To be honest, I've never followed any particular pricing conventions. I just do what seems balanced. Of course, slightly more expensive is a bit better, but there's always a sweet spot where it's just right. Also, there are a couple rules that are similar, like the Warlord trait for the new CSM that allows infiltrators, and also the GKGM Grand Strategy ability.
Diabolus is the largest planet in the Diabolusian Wedge System, a largely forgotten far-flung outpost of a bygone era. The Emperor still see's the Wedge in his dreams and he hasn't forgotten it, but he's a little busy right now, thus the citizens of Diabolus must soldier on alone. Enter Corvax, once proud son of the Legions turned bitter destroyer, whose burning blade strikes fear into the hearts of those loyal to the Emperor. Corvax led his unit bravely and for many decades in the defense of Diabolus, until the depredations of the Dark Eldar warped his soul. Captured in a lightning raid by an unknown Kabal, Corvax withstood months of torture until finally his will broke and Khorne entered his mind. He could not accept that his end lay on a Wych's torture table, and thus he sought salvation elsewhere. Empowered by the malicious gifts of the Blood God Corvax broke free of his captors and proceeded along a murderous trail of revenge. Nothing remained of the Kabal who sought slaves on Diabolus, save for what dripped from Corvax's blood drenched power armour.
The killing did not stop however when Corvax returned to his battle-brothers as the Mark of Chaos was clearly upon him, they tried to purge his soul with chainsword and holy bolter but alas he was too strong. The strange blessing of Khorne had changed him in terrible ways, Corvax grew stronger with every kill and soon his battle-brothers could not help but admire the power of his blows and the precision of his shots. The transformation was complete. Khorne laughed that day on his throne of skulls for another warband had just joined his cause and he knew the blood would flow forever upon the face of Diabolus. For never could this new Champion rest, not while a single enemy might still live, not ever...
WS - 7
BS - 5
S - 4
T - 4
W - 3
I - 5
A - 4
LD - 8/7
SV - 3+
USRs - Independant Character, Champion of Chaos, Fearless, Mark of Khorne, Thirst Never Slaked, Weapons Like Brothers, Demi-Lord
Thirst Never Slaked- This blessing from Khorne is truly wonderous, allowing Corvax to use his rage in battle to make himself stronger. Whenever Corvax kills another model in any combat phase add +1 to his strength stat, up to a maximum of +1 per game turn, to a max of 10. However this blessing is not without it's drawbacks. Corvax must always charge the nearest enemy unit during the assault phase if able, if not he must move to within maximum charge range of the nearest unit in the next assault movement phase. Also, once activated Corvax loses his ability to lead effectively, as he is consumed with rage, lowering his leadership by 1 point.
Weapons Like Brothers - Corvax has become so attuned to his God and to the art of combat that his weapons have become imbued with supernatural abilities, the strength of Corvax's melee and ranged weapons use his Strength stat.
Demi-Lord - Corvax is favoured by Khorne so much so that he will sometimes intervene to save Corvax from death. When Corvax suffers any wound that has instant death roll a d6, on a roll of 3+ the instant death rule is ignored and the wound applied as normal.
Gear - Power Armour, Malicious Greatsword, Hatred Bolter, Rage Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Aura of Dark Glory
Malicious Greatsword - melee weapon, S - *, AP - 2, specialist weapon
Hatred Bolter - Rapid Fire, range - 24", S - *, AP - 4
Rage Pistol - Pistol, range - 8", S - *, AP - 3
Points Cost - 250?
I'm not sure what he ought to cost, or if he's too buff. Advice anyone? Back story grim-dark enough?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 09:00:16
General M. Perez turned from being his systems only hope against the increasing genestealer infection problem, to its worst nightmare, when he got infected by a genestealer hybrids kiss. Now he uses his vast political power to infest the higher echelons in the planetary defence force and the imperial guard regiments under his control. His former special anti-genestealer task force has been turned into crazed brood brothers and devious 3rd and 4th generation hybrids. He has "lent" those task forces out to several planetary governors fearing the genestealer menace, thereby increasing his span of control. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of his best cards in his hands. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of the few members of the task-force that has fought alongside a tyranid invasion, and subsequently survived by "fleeing" with the remaining human survivors. Imperial guard commanders are fond of requesting his assistance in various campaigns, as they arent aware of his true allegiance. He can even be seen figthing against tyranid organisms. But its all a brilliant ploy by the hive mind, to ensure the commanders trust him, for him to get close enough to infect them. He has a hybrid oviposter instead of a human tongue, which makes his speech a bit slurred, he also has a third arm ending in a wicked talon hidden under his armoured clothing which he uses to full effect in close combat when there are no imperial witnesses.
Elite choice for both imperial guard and tyranids. Tyranids needs 1+ Genestealer broods to be able to field Sgt Leland Purvis and his squad.
Stormtrooper sergeant Leland Purvis and squad cost 125 pts ?
WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W 2 I 4 A3 LD9 SV4+ Sgt Leland Purvis
Unit composition 1 sergeant purvis 4 stormtrooper cultists
type infantry character (Sgt Purvis only) Unique (Sgt Purvis only)
wargear (all) carapace armour hotshot las pistol hotshot lasgun close combat weapon frag grenades krak grenades defensive grenades scything talon (Sgt Purvis only)
Special rules deepstrike special operations genestealer cultist fleet hit and run sergeant only: rending assault aura of despair hypnotic gaze
Options may add up to 5 stormtrooper cultists for 16 point per model up to 2 stormtrooper cultists may exchange their hotshot lasgun with: flamer: 5 pts grenade launcher: 5 pts meltagun: 10 pts plasmagun: 15 pts Rending claw: 5 pts Scything talon: free
Genestealer cultists: counts as tyranid, genestealers and imperial guard regarding prefered enemy, hatred, powers etc. Not subject to instinctive behavior, becomes fearless when within 12” of friendly genestealers. has the one eye open special rule against friendly imperial guard. (the team mates spend their turn, explaining their spooked comrade that he did NOT see a third mutant arm on that stormtrooper over there, he is clearly stressed out and need to do some cleansing prayers)
Rending assault: The first turn in any closecombat, Sgt Leland Purvis counts as having the rending ability. I know, its boring with just another rend ability, should he have poisoned attacks instead?
[/i]3edit, different layout, thanks to Ovion
Ok, so as I said before, I like the unit. The concept is great, and I see what you're going for, a Magus-like Cultist infiltrating the Imperium, it's good times. BUT you've undercosted it quite a bit, pricing the Stormtroopers as regular Stormtroopers, even though they have +4 to stats, and 4 extra bits of gear / special rules. Then +40 to the sgt, even though he has a further +4 to his stats and an extra 2 bits of gear/rules and is a Psyker (25pts on its own).
So I've ran the unit through my template, included some bits you'd missed and done up a costing for you.
Changes: Added Psyker so he can use the powers and Magus to cover the rules for using them. Seperated out Genestealer Cultists into Genestealer Cultists and Brood Telepathy. Included the rules that are not found in Codex: Guard for Tyranids and Codex: Tyranids for Guard.
Costing:
Spoiler:
Squad 3 at 16 per - 48 +1 WS +10 +1I +10 +1A +10 +1Ld +5 +Defensive Grenades +10 +Genestealer Cultist +/-0 Brood Telepathy +5 +Fleet +10 +Hit and Run +10 Total: 118/3 (rounding up): 40pts per
Totals: 100pts for the Sgt, 40pts a Trooper Cultist.
Spoiler:
Army: Imperial Guard / Tyranids BG: General M. Perez turned from being his systems only hope against the increasing genestealer infection problem, to its worst nightmare, when he got infected by a genestealer hybrids kiss. Now he uses his vast political power to infest the higher echelons in the planetary defence force and the imperial guard regiments under his control. His former special anti-genestealer task force has been turned into crazed brood brothers and devious 3rd and 4th generation hybrids. He has "lent" those task forces out to several planetary governors fearing the genestealer menace, thereby increasing his span of control. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of his best cards in his hands. Sgt Leland Purvis is one of the few members of the task-force that has fought alongside a tyranid invasion, and subsequently survived by "fleeing" with the remaining human survivors. Imperial guard commanders are fond of requesting his assistance in various campaigns, as they arent aware of his true allegiance. He can even be seen figthing against tyranid organisms. But its all a brilliant ploy by the hive mind, to ensure the commanders trust him, for him to get close enough to infect them. He has a hybrid oviposter instead of a human tongue, which makes his speech a bit slurred, he also has a third arm ending in a wicked talon hidden under his armoured clothing which he uses to full effect in close combat when there are no imperial witnesses.
FO: Elites If taken in a Tyranid force you can only select this unit in an army that contains 1+ units of Genestealers or Ymgarl Genestealers. Squad: Stormtrooper Sergeant Leland Purvis Unit: Sergeant Purvis, Points Per: 100, Models: 1*, Unit Type: Infantry (Character), WS-5, BS-4, S-3, T-3, W-2, I-4, A-3(4), Ld-9, Sv-4+.
Wargear: Carapace Armour Hotshot Lasgun Hotshot Las Pistol Close Combat Weapon Scything Talon Frag Grenades Krak Grenades Defensive Grenades
Special Rules: ( C: Precision Shots ) ( C: Precision Strikes ) ( C: Look Out, Sir (4+) ) Genestealer Cultist Brood Telepathy Magus ( M: Psyker Mastery Level 1 ) ( M: Aura of Despair ) ( M: Hypnotic Gaze ) Deepstrike Special Operations Fleet Hit and Run Rending Assault
Wargear: Carapace Armour Hotshot Lasgun Hotshot Las Pistol Close Combat Weapon Frag Grenades Krak Grenades Defensive Grenades
Special Rules: Genestealer Cultist Brood Telepathy Deepstrike Special Operations Fleet Hit and Run
Options: Up to 2 Stormtrooper Cultists may exchange their Hotshot Lasgun with: Flamer: 5 pts Grenade Launcher: 5 pts Meltagun: 10 pts Plasmagun: 15 pts Rending Claw: 5 pts Scything Talon: free
Genestealer cultists: A unit with this Special Rule counts as Tyranids, Genestealers and Imperial Guard for the purposes of Prefered Enemy, Hatred, Powers, etc. Furthermore, models with this rule become fearless when within 12” of friendly genestealers. A unit with this rule is also treated as Desperate Allies with Imperial Guard, even in the same detachment. (The team mates spend their turn, explaining their spooked comrade that he did NOT see a third mutant arm on that stormtrooper over there, he is clearly stressed out and need to do some cleansing prayers)
Brood Telepathy: The Cultists are not subject to the Instinctive Behavior rule.
Magus: As an F4 Hybrid, Sergeant Purvis is a Mastery Level 1 Psyker. He also has the Broodlord Psychic powers Aura of Despair and Hypnotic Gaze as found in Codex: Tyranids. The Sergeant may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of the powers in his profile. If he does so, for each psychic power generate a new power from either the Biomancy, Telekinesis or Telepathy disciplines (in any combination) before armies are deployed.
Aura of Despair: This Psychic Power is used at the beginning of your Assault Phase. If Successful, all enemy units within 12" of the Sergeant suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership until the end of the of the following player turn. If an enemy unit is within range of Purvis and one or more Broodlords using this power, the modifiers are cumulative.
Hypnotic Gaze: This Psychic Power is used during your Assault Phase after any assault moves have been made, but before any attacks are made. If successful, select one model in base contact with the Sergeant. Both players roll a D6 and add the Leadership of their respective models. If Sergeant Purvis rolls equal to or higher than the targets score, that model may not attack in the ensuing combat. The power cannot affect models that do not have a Leadership Value.
Special Operations: Storm Troopers are not lightly cast into battle - they are always given a specific mission to achieve, too important to be trusted to others. Before deployment, declare to your opponent which mission the squad is following: - Reconnaisance: The Reconnaisance mission grants the Scouts and Move Through Cover rules. - Airborne Assault: The Airborne Assault mission allows the squad to reroll the scatter die when they Deep Strike - Behind Enemy Lines: The Behind Enemy Lines mission grants the squad the Infiltrate rule and their weapons count as Pinning the first time the squad fires.
Rending assault: During the first round of any close combat, Sgt Leland Purvis' attacks count as rending.
Hot-Shot Las Guns: Hot-Shot Las Guns are ranged weapons with the following profile: Range-18", Str-3, AP-3, Type-Rapid Fire. Range-6", Str-3, AP-3, Type-Pistol.
Rending Claws: Close Combat Attacks made by models with Rending Claws gain the Rending rule.
Scything Talon: A model with a Scything Talon re-rolls any To-Hit rolls of 1 in Close Combat.
Ovion wrote: Price up the guy + his gear, and call the Arts of War rule 50pts. (Don't have the time to do a proper pricing and review atm, hope this helps )
So 205pts it is then, thanks. I've been following your pricing guidelines for some time now. The only caveat was that the Arts was such a different rule I had little to compare it too.
To be honest, I've never followed any particular pricing conventions. I just do what seems balanced. Of course, slightly more expensive is a bit better, but there's always a sweet spot where it's just right. Also, there are a couple rules that are similar, like the Warlord trait for the new CSM that allows infiltrators, and also the GKGM Grand Strategy ability.
Maybe you should, a lot of your stuffs a bit undercosted (Though better lately)
But yeah, a lot of it is feel for a thing, you know when somethings are just severely overcosted or undercosted, and experience, but following a rough, coherent guide is a must.
ALSO: Did you know that a full 7 pages of this thread are Mcninja, with 9 of me. between the 2 of us, we've made up over 15% of this thread...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 12:53:07
BaconUprising wrote: And we love you for it Ovion anyway when do we get to see some more of your characters?
Thanks xD
And not entirely sure to be honest...
At this point almost everything I've already done is due an update to 6th or a new codex, and not a huge amount of 'fresh' inspiration has struck lately, probably due to lack of time (also why I haven't been commenting much for a while..)
I should probably go back to my 'roots' as it were, and do some Dark Eldar stuff though.
Starlight: When a weapon with Starlight causes a Penetrating hit on a Vehicle, it causes a Crew Stunned! damage result in addition to the effect of the Penetrating hit.
Special Rules: Character, Fearless, Partners Until Death, Stubborn, Monster Hunter
Exacting Hunter: Ar’temis performs Precision Shots on a roll of 4+, instead of 6+. In addition, Look Out Sir! Rolls made against these Precision Shots are done at -1.
Hardheaded: Any force containing Ar’temis may not ally with any Imperial army. In addition, an Independent Character may not join Ar’temis and A’pollo.
XV-76 Sunflare Armor: Provides 2+ Armor save and 4+ Invulnerable save.
Solar Impact Cannon:
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 4
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Large Blast, Heavy 2, Gets Really Hot!, Unbearable Heat
Gets Really Hot!: Even though A’pollo hits on 2+, he must take a wound from Gets Hot! as if he had rolled a 1. On the event he rolls a 1 to hit, he takes a wound at AP:1.
Unbearable Heat: Any unit that is hit must immediately take a Blind test. If this is failed, the target suffers the effects of Blind and must subtract D6 from their Movement and Charges for the next turn.
Special Rules: Character, Fearless, Partners Until Death
You will not touch my sister!: A’pollo must accept any challenge in a combat where he is involved. A’pollo may choose to sacrifice all his attacks to increase his Invulnerable save to 2+ and gain the Eternal Warrior special rule. While doing so, all wounds directed towards his unit are allocated on him. If he loses all his wounds, none will go to Ar’temis(if she is still alive). This prevents Ar’temis from attacking.
Shared Special rules:
Partners Until Death: If one of the twins is removed as a casualty, place a suitable counter where he/she was removed. The remaining twin must remain within 6" of this marker for the rest of the game. This marker counts as an objective marker worth 2 victory points that can only be scored by the remaining twin.
Warlord: Ar'temis and A'pollo both take up the Warlord slot. To claim slay the Warlord, you must kill both. They have this Warlord Trait:
Calm and Steady: One use only. Models in units with your Warlord may choose to sacrifice any movement(in the movement and assault phase) in order to shoot their weapons twice.
These two are twins, based on Artemis and Apollo from Greek Mythology. Feedback would be awesome.
Lucarikx
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 03:32:39
Starlight: When a weapon with Starlight causes a Penetrating hit on a Vehicle, it causes a Crew Stunned! damage result in addition to the effect of the Penetrating hit.
Special Rules: Character, Fearless, Partners Until Death, Stubborn, Monster Hunter
Exacting Hunter: Ar’temis performs Precision Shots on a roll of 4+, instead of 6+. In addition, Look Out Sir! Rolls made against these Precision Shots are done at -1.
Hardheaded: Any force containing Ar’temis may not ally with any Imperial army. In addition, an Independent Character may not join Ar’temis and A’pollo.
XV-76 Sunflare Armor: Provides 2+ Armor save and 4+ Invulnerable save.
Solar Impact Cannon:
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 4
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Large Blast, Heavy 2, Gets Really Hot!, Unbearable Heat
Gets Really Hot!: Even though A’pollo hits on 2+, he must take a wound from Gets Hot! as if he had rolled a 1. On the event he rolls a 1 to hit, he takes a wound at AP:1.
Unbearable Heat: Any unit that is hit must immediately take a Blind test. If this is failed, the target suffers the effects of Blind and must subtract D6 from their Movement and Charges for the next turn.
Special Rules: Character, Fearless, Partners Until Death
You will not touch my sister!: A’pollo must accept any challenge in a combat where he is involved. A’pollo may choose to sacrifice all his attacks to increase his Invulnerable save to 2+ and gain the
Eternal Warrior special rule. While doing so, all wounds directed towards his unit are allocated on him. If he loses all his wounds, none will go to Ar’temis(if she is still alive). This prevents Ar’temis from attacking.
Shared Special rules:
Partners Until Death: If one of the twins is removed as a casualty, place a suitable counter where he/she was removed. The remaining twin must remain within 6" of this marker for the rest of the game. This marker counts as an objective marker worth 2 victory points that can only be scored by the remaining twin.
Warlord: Ar'temis and A'pollo both take up the Warlord slot. To claim slay the Warlord, you must kill both. They have this Warlord Trait:
Calm and Steady: One use only. Models in units with your Warlord may choose to sacrifice any movement(in the movement and assault phase) in order to shoot their weapons twice.
These two are twins, based on Artemis and Apollo from Greek Mythology. Feedback would be awesome.
Lucarikx
Ok then, first off - XV7 isn't a suit.
the 7 weight designation so far is currently only found in TX7 vehicles (Hammerhead and Skyray frames).
As far as I can tell, you have an XV-82-8 (Moonlight Armour Experimental Crisis variant with Shield Gen) and XV-892-6 (Sunflare Armour Experimental Iridium Crisis variant with Shield Gen).
Next, the layout is strange, and uses far, far too many quote boxes.
Here's something a lil clearer.
Spoiler:
Army: Tau Empire
BG: N/A
FO: HQ Squad: A'rtemis and A'pollo, the Twin Defenders of Fi'rios
Unit: Ar’temis, Points Per: ?, Models: 1*, Unit Type: Jet Pack Infantry (Character),
WS-2, BS-5, S-4, T-4, W-3, I-2, A-2, Ld-10, Sv-3+/4+*.
Warlord Trait:
Calm and Steady
Special Rules:
( VRT: Hit and Run )
( VRT: Fleet )
( BSF: Night Vision )
Fearless
Partners Until Death
Stubborn
Monster Hunter
Exacting Hunter
Hardheaded
Very Bulky
Special Rules:
( BSF: Night Vision )
Fearless
Partners Until Death
You Will Not Touch My Sister
Very Bulky
Calm and Steady:
One use only. A'rtemis and A'pollo may choose to sacrifice any movement (in the movement and assault phases) in order to shoot their weapons twice.
XV-82-8 Moonlight Armour:
Provides 3+ Armor save and has a built in Shield Generator providing a 4+ Invulnerable save.
XV-892-6 Sunflare Armour:
Provides 2+ Armor save and has a built in Shield Generator providing a 4+ Invulnerable save.
Nightfield Generator:
Provides Shrouded if the enemy shooting at the unit is over 24” away.
Lunar Impact Cannon:
The Lunar Impact Cannon is a ranged weapon with the following profile:
Standard - Range-48", Str-8, AP-2, Type-Heavy 2, Armourbane.
Lunar Charged - Range-36", Str-9, AP-2, Type-Heavy 1, Armourbane, Starlight, Gets Hot!
Starlight:
When a weapon with Starlight causes a Penetrating hit on a Vehicle, it causes a Crew Stunned! damage result in addition any other effects of the Penetrating hit.
Solar Impact Cannon:
The Solar Impact Cannon is a ranged weapon with the following profile:
Standard - Range-48", Str-6, AP-3, Type-Heavy 4, Blast.
Solar Charged - Range-36", Str-8, AP-3, Type-Heavy 2, Large Blast, Unbearable Heat, Gets Really Hot!
Unbearable Heat:
Any unit that is hit must immediately take a Blind test.
If this is failed, the target suffers the effects of Blind and must subtract D6 from their Movement and Charges for the next turn.
Gets Really Hot!:
Even though A’pollo hits on 2+, he must take a wound from Gets Hot! as if he had rolled a 1.
In the event he rolls a 1 to hit, he takes a wound at AP:1.
Partners Until Death:
Ar'temis and A'pollo both take up the Warlord slot.
To claim slay the Warlord, you must kill both, and both may use the Warlord Trait so long as one is alive.
If one of the twins is removed as a casualty, place a suitable counter where he/she was removed.
The remaining twin must remain within 6" of this marker for the rest of the game.
This marker counts as an objective marker worth 2 victory points that can only be scored by the remaining twin.
Exacting Hunter:
Ar’temis performs Precision Shots on a roll of 4+, instead of 6+.
In addition, Look Out Sir! Rolls made against these Precision Shots are done at -1.
Hardheaded:
Any force containing Ar’temis may not ally with any Imperial army.
In addition, Independent Characters may not join Ar’temis and A’pollo.
You will not touch my sister!:
A’pollo must accept any challenge in a combat where he is involved.
A’pollo may choose to sacrifice all his attacks to increase his Invulnerable save to 2+ and gain the Eternal Warrior special rule.
While doing so, all wounds directed towards his unit are allocated on him.
If he loses all his wounds, none will go to Ar’temis (if she is still alive).
This prevents Ar’temis from attacking.
And now looking through it... holy crap.
I'm confused why these commanders only have WS2 and I2, A2, instead of the usual commander statline of 4,3,4, when otherwise they have a standard commander line.
I can't help but feel that this is stat dropping something you don't like to save points on something you do (happpens a lot), so these will be assumed to be 4,3,4 not 2,2,2.
Lets price these up:
Costing
Spoiler:
Crisis Commander: 85
+Set Warlord Trait +5 (will do the same for the brother, to even the 10 across both, and will do the same for other shared rules, half the cost each)
+Shield Generator +25
+Nightfield +10
+Vectored Retro-Thrusters +5
+Velocity Tracker +20
+Blacksun Filter +1
+Lunar Impact Cannon:
Standard +50 (basically 2 Lascannons (20 each) strapped together, with Armourbane (+10))
Charged +10
+Fearless +10
+Partners Till Death +5
+Stubborn +10
+Monster Hunter +10
+Exacting Hunter +10
+Hardheaded -5
Total: 251, call it 250
Crisis Commander: 85
+Set Warlord Trait +5
+Iridium Armour +25
+Shield Generator +25
+Blacksun Filter +1
+Target Lock +5
+Stimulant Injector +15
+Solar Impact Cannon:
Standard +60 (based off the Suncannons statline)
Charged +15
+Fearless +10
+Partners Till Death +5
+You Will Not Touch My Sister +20 (+2 to invun is +20, Eternal Warrior is +35, +5 for the can only hit him, and divided by 3, for how often it's likely to come into play)
Total: 271
Call it 270
Totals: A'rtemis - 250. A'pollo - 270. (520 for the pair)
Special rules: Fearless, Independent Character, Veterans of the Long War, Arrogant, Three Thousand Years of Hatred, Shock Tactics, Champion of Chaos, The Frost Wyrms, Allchosen, Mark of Chaos Favour, Eternal Warrior
Blackfire Blade:
Range:- S:+1 AP:2 Type: Melee, Blackfire
Blackfire: If Kraxis chooses to attack with the Blackfire Blade, it bestows +1 attack. In addition, anyone wishing to shoot at Kraxis or his squad while the Night Fighting rule is in effect can ignore the maximum range that Night Fighting incurs. The Shrouded special rule still takes effect if they do so.
Three Thousand Years of Hatred: If Kraxis is locked in combat with a Space Marine unit (As defined in Codex: Chaos Space Marines) he gains the Rampage special rule, as long as he is not in a challenge.
Arrogant: If Kraxis is in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord. Kraxis must always join a Chaos Terminator squad at the start of the game, and may not leave this unit during the battle.
Shock Tactics: Kraxis and his squad must start the battle in reserve, and always Deep Strike the turn they enter play. When the unit Deep Strikes, they may re-roll the scatter dice if they wish.
The Frost Wyrms: Kraxis never goes to war without the Frost Wyrms, his millennia-year old veteran bodyguard who followed him when he betrayed the Thunder Dragons chapter. If the controlling player wishes, the Chaos Terminator squad that Kraxis has joined may be upgraded to Frost Wyrms at the cost of +15 points per model. Frost Wyrms have +1 WS, +1 BS, and +1 W, and the Veterans of the Long War special rule.
Allchosen: Kraxis is the tyrannic leader of the Glacier Serpents, whose iron will has kept the Warband united and growing over the millennia. If he dies, the Glacier Serpents will be dismayed; if they are not scattered, they will at least be disorganised. If Kraxis is in your primary detachment, the enemy recieves D3 victory points instead of 1 for the Slay the Warlord objective. In Purge the Alien, the Frost Wyrms are worth 2 victory points instead of 1.
Mark of Chaos Favour: Kraxis has a special Mark of Chaos signifying that all four gods favour him to an extent. While only Abaddon can truly wield all powers of the Gods to their fullest, Kraxis still enjoys a measure of blessings from each.
The Mark gives the Fear and Feel no Pain special rules to Kraxis and his squad, to represent the horrid reputation of such champions and the protection that they have been bestowed with.
Options:
May take a Juggernaut of Khorne for +45 points, despite him having Terminator Armour and not having the Mark of Khorne.
So yeah, this guy might seem like "a lot", but my (Admittedly not huge) meta seems to approve of him. Though I am not sure of the pointscost, and some special rules can perhaps be tweaked yet. I'm mostly afraid of undercosting him, I would not want to send an overpowered too-cheap Chaos Lord at my poor friends! Most of his special rules are just me going wild with his fluff; especially his relationship to terminators is one that will make any tournament player facepalm.
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:46:00
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
Lucarikx wrote: Thanks for the pricing, Ovion! I had a feeling I undercosted them.
Do you think I should tone anything down? Like guns/wargear?
Thanks,
Lucarikx
My main suggestion would be to tone down the guns.
Make the Lunar Cannon Standard Heavy 1, with no Armourbane, then the Charged can stay the same. That'll knock off probably 25pts.
And again for the Solar, make it Heavy 2, Blast and Heavy 1, Large Blast, dropping it by 25pts .
Aaand I'd probably drop the Nightfield and Fearless from both, saving another 30 overall, reducing the combined cost to around 205 / 235 (440 total)
Interesting idea though.
Lucarikx wrote: Thanks for the pricing, Ovion! I had a feeling I undercosted them.
Do you think I should tone anything down? Like guns/wargear?
Thanks,
Lucarikx
To be honest, I feel that Ovion underpriced the weapon a little bit. The weapons, as they are, should be at least 75 points each. The Lunar weapon is a Lascannon with Armorbane, and with BS5 that will destroy any tank it touches. The Solar weapon is a better Thunderfire Cannon on a more mobile platform with better BS.
My proposed changes (I do like these weapons, but they are a bit much): Normal = R:48 – S:8 – AP:2 – Rapid Fire
Lunar Charged = R:36 – S:8 – AP1 – Heavy 1, Starlight - The weapon puts out such a condensed beam of light that no armor, however strong, can withstand it. This weapon has the Lance and Armorbane special rules. In addition, this weapon uses such powerful systems to condense the beams that the weapon can cause critical backlashes, putting the firer in danger whenever it is fired; the weapon has the Gets Hot! rule. It always causes a Gets Hot! wound, but a roll of 1 to hit causes a wound to Ar'temis at S8 AP1.
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 4
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Heavy 2, Large Blast, Gets Really Hot!, Unbearable Heat
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 2, Blind
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind, Unbearable Heat - After determining the final position of the blast, leave the large blast marker on the table until your next shooting phase. Any models moving onto or off of the blast marker must take a dangerous terrain test. In addition, this weapon projects such intense heat the even the user is put in danger whenever it is fired; the weapon has the Gets Hot! rule, and when rolling to determine whether or not it gets hot, a roll of 2+ causes a wound and a roll of 1 causes a wound at AP2.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:23:23
Hmm, I will have another go. Here is the guy that is the supreme commander of my warband, the Glacier Serpents.
Lord Kraxis, Allchosen of the Glacier Serpents
Points: 275?
WS7 BS5 S4 T4 W4 I5 A4 LD10 Sv2+
Wargear:
Terminator Armour,
Combi-Melta,
Frag Grenades,
Melta Bombs,
Sigil of Corruption,
Blackfire Blade,
Combat Familiar
Special rules:
Fearless,
Independent Character,
Veterans of the Long War,
Arrogant,
Three Thousand Years of Hatred,
Shock Tactics,
The Frost Wyrms,
Allchosen
Blackfire Blade:
Range:- S:+1 AP:2 Type: Melee, Blackfire
Blackfire: If Kraxis chooses to attack with the Blackfire Blade, it bestows +1 attack. In addition, anyone wishing to shoot at Kraxis or his squad while the Night Fighting rule is in effect can ignore the maximum range that Night Fighting incurs. The Shrouded special rule still takes effect if they do so.
Three Thousand Years of Hatred: If Kraxis is locked in combat with a Space Marine unit (As defined in Codex: Chaos Space Marines) he gains the Rampage special rule, as long as he is not in a challenge.
Arrogant: If Kraxis is in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord. Kraxis must always join a Chaos Terminator squad at the start of the game, and may not leave this unit during the battle. This rule applies even if Kraxis and the Terminators have different Marks of Chaos, or if Kraxis takes a Juggernaut of Khorne.
Shock Tactics: Kraxis and his squad must start the battle in reserve, and always Deep Strike the turn they enter play. When the unit Deep Strikes, they may re-roll the scatter dice if they wish.
The Frost Wyrms: Kraxis never goes to war without the Frost Wyrms, his millennia-year old veteran bodyguard who followed him when he betrayed the Thunder Dragons chapter. If the controlling player wishes, the Chaos Terminator squad that Kraxis has joined may be upgraded to Frost Wyrms at the cost of +21 points per model. Frost Wyrms have +1 WS, +1 BS, and +1 W. Frost Wyrms must take the Veterans of the Long War upgrade.
Allchosen: Kraxis is the tyrannic leader of the Glacier Serpents, whose iron will has kept the Warband united and growing over the millennia. If he dies, the Glacier Serpents will be dismayed; if they are not scattered, they will at least be disorganised. If Kraxis is in your primary detachment, the enemy recieves D3 victory points instead of 1 for the Slay the Warlord objective. In Purge the Alien, the Frost Wyrms are worth 2 victory points instead of 1.
Options:
May take a single Mark of Chaos from the wargear list.
If Kraxis takes the Mark of Khorne, he may take a Juggernaut of Khorne for +45 points, despite him having Terminator Armour.
So yeah, this guy might seem like "a lot", but my (Admittedly not huge) meta seems to approve of him. Though I am not sure of the pointscost, and some special rules can perhaps be tweaked yet. I'm mostly afraid of undercosting him, I would not want to send an overpowered too-cheap Chaos Lord at my poor friends! Most of his special rules are just me going wild with his fluff; especially his relationship to terminators is one that will make any tournament player facepalm.
As a Special Character, I feel he should already have a preset mark, and certainly shouldn't have the option for any mark.
A mount is fine, but I'd say give him the MoK and give the mount option at 45pts like you have already.
I'd also roll the cost of Veterans into the upgrade, and make it +15pts each.
Oh, and you forgot to give him Champion of Chaos. (Costed assuming he has it, being they all have it)
The reason I did not give him a mark is because he is, fluffwise, fighting for all four (He is obviously not quite as favoured as Abaddon is, so all four marks would not make sense) but it felt strange to penalise him because he is not dedicated. And you are very right about Champion of Chaos.
The Jugger is mostly whimsy on my part, I plan on converting a special model in the future using the WHFB Juggerlord's mount. Rule of cool, I suppose. I can remove that if it does not make sense, as he is otherwise not specifically Khornate (Though sadly there is no undivided mount. :( )
Hmm, maybe like this? (See above edit to special rules.)
Added EW (I forgot EW!) and a special Mark of Chaos Favour, bumped up price from 235 to 275 to compensate. Should maybe increase?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:41:05
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
Lucarikx wrote: Thanks for the pricing, Ovion! I had a feeling I undercosted them.
Do you think I should tone anything down? Like guns/wargear?
Thanks,
Lucarikx
To be honest, I feel that Ovion underpriced the weapon a little bit. The weapons, as they are, should be at least 75 points each. The Lunar weapon is a Lascannon with Armorbane, and with BS5 that will destroy any tank it touches. The Solar weapon is a better Thunderfire Cannon on a more mobile platform with better BS.
My proposed changes (I do like these weapons, but they are a bit much): Normal = R:48 – S:8 – AP:2 – Rapid Fire
Lunar Charged = R:36 – S:8 – AP1 – Heavy 1, Starlight - The weapon puts out such a condensed beam of light that no armor, however strong, can withstand it. This weapon has the Lance and Armorbane special rules. In addition, this weapon uses such powerful systems to condense the beams that the weapon can cause critical backlashes, putting the firer in danger whenever it is fired; the weapon has the Gets Hot! rule. It always causes a Gets Hot! wound, but a roll of 1 to hit causes a wound to Ar'temis at S8 AP1.
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 4
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Heavy 2, Large Blast, Gets Really Hot!, Unbearable Heat
Normal = R:48 – S:6 – AP:3 – Blast, Heavy 2, Blind
Solar Charged = R:36 – S8 – AP: 3 – Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind, Unbearable Heat - After determining the final position of the blast, leave the large blast marker on the table until your next shooting phase. Any models moving onto or off of the blast marker must take a dangerous terrain test. In addition, this weapon projects such intense heat the even the user is put in danger whenever it is fired; the weapon has the Gets Hot! rule, and when rolling to determine whether or not it gets hot, a roll of 2+ causes a wound and a roll of 1 causes a wound at AP2.
That is... really complex. Your changes make the weapons just unusable - always causes a wound, and on a 1 will ignore armour, and the Lunar one will Instant Death the user. No one will want to fire a weapon that has a 1 in 3 chance of wounding themselves and a 1 in 12 chance of outright killing themself. Though I like the Rapid Fire instead of Heavy 2, that seems fitting.
I also priced the Lunar one appropriately. 2 Lascannons is 40pts, Armourbane is +10. The Alt. Made draws off the base, at +1Str (+10), and the range reduction, shot reduction, gets hot, and +stunned all about even out. So 60pts for that gun. BS5 is included in the 190pts of model carrying it.
The Solar one is trickier... I feel I priced the primary fire correctly at 60pts (Suncannon is 48", 3 shot Str6, AP2 Blasts, and costs roughly 40-50pts). (It should also really be Heavy 2, which would drop it to 40 easily) The Alt fire mode.. I'm not sure on and think I skimmed / screwed up a little, and while the +15 for 75pts total matches your estimate, it should probably have been +30, for 90pts total (+2 Str and those large blasts), with everything else about evening out.
But reducing them as I said above (halving the number of shots and restricting Armourbane to the Alt.fire), reduces cost and tones down the weapons to a more sensible level.
As to being a better platform than the Thunderfire Cannon, it's also a platform that costs 3-4 times more than the Techpriest and Artillery Mount, so you'd sort of hope so.
The reason I did not give him a mark is because he is, fluffwise, fighting for all four (He is obviously not quite as favoured as Abaddon is, so all four marks would not make sense) but it felt strange to penalise him because he is not dedicated. And you are very right about Champion of Chaos. The Jugger is mostly whimsy on my part, I plan on converting a special model in the future using the WHFB Juggerlord's mount. Rule of cool, I suppose. I can remove that if it does not make sense, as he is otherwise not specifically Khornate (Though sadly there is no undivided mount. :( )
Hmm, maybe like this? (See above edit to special rules.)
Added EW (I forgot EW!) and a special Mark of Chaos Favour, bumped up price from 235 to 275 to compensate. Should maybe increase?
The change is fine. Pricing wise, Eternal Warrior is +35, the +Fear and FnP will be +20, so 290 overall. Though honestly, I'd say drop the EW and bring it back to 255. And I'd call the Jugernaut +50 for taking without a 'true' MoK.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:50:56
Ovion wrote: That is... really complex. Your changes make the weapons just unusable - always causes a wound, and on a 1 will ignore armour, and the Lunar one will Instant Death the user. No one will want to fire a weapon that has a 1 in 3 chance of wounding themselves and a 1 in 12 chance of outright killing themself. Though I like the Rapid Fire instead of Heavy 2, that seems fitting.
I also priced the Lunar one appropriately. 2 Lascannons is 40pts, Armourbane is +10. The Alt. Made draws off the base, at +1Str (+10), and the range reduction, shot reduction, gets hot, and +stunned all about even out. So 60pts for that gun.
The Solar one is trickier... I feel I priced the primary fire correctly at 60pts (Suncannon is 48", 3 shot Str6, AP2 Blasts, and costs roughly 40-50pts). (It should also really be Heavy 2, which would drop it to 40 easily) The Alt fire mode.. I'm not sure on and think I skimmed / screwed up a little, and while the +15 for 75pts total matches your estimate, it should probably have been +30, for 90pts total (+2 Str and those large blasts), with everything else about evening out.
But reducing them as I said above (halving the number of shots and restricting Armourbane to the Alt.fire), reduces cost and tones down the weapons to a more sensible level.
As to being a better platform, it's also a platform that costs 3-4 times more than the Techpriest, you'd sort of hope so.
I agree your adjustments are simpler. I tend to go wild with rules... However, the Lunar weapon is supposed to be that way. As you said, 1/12 chance of killing yourself, but then again, you have a far, far higher chance of annihilating any vehicle you see. S8 + Lance means you need a 5+ to pen. Throw armorbane in there and the likeliness of you penetrating the vehicle, plus doing significant damage due to AP1, skyrockets. It's not unusable, its a chancy drawback to a hugely powerful weapon that WILL roflstomp any tank it sees the same way the Solar one drops bombs of pure infantry facerolling from the roflcopter. You glass a squad of marines, and if those that are left move out of the blast zone, they roll DT and potentially kill the rest of their unit.
As for costs, Armorbane shouldn't necessarily be the same cost for every weapon. Armorbane on a Bolter shouldn't be the same as Armorbane on a Lascannon because of the huge difference in strength.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:56:18
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Ovion wrote: The change is fine.
Pricing wise, Eternal Warrior is +35, the +Fear and FnP will be +20, so 290 overall. Though honestly, I'd say drop the EW and bring it back to 255.
And I'd call the Jugernaut +50 for taking without a 'true' MoK.
Okay! I will see what my local gaming club thinks of these rules. Thanks a lot for the help!
I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a
Ovion wrote: That is... really complex. Your changes make the weapons just unusable - always causes a wound, and on a 1 will ignore armour, and the Lunar one will Instant Death the user. No one will want to fire a weapon that has a 1 in 3 chance of wounding themselves and a 1 in 12 chance of outright killing themself. Though I like the Rapid Fire instead of Heavy 2, that seems fitting.
I also priced the Lunar one appropriately. 2 Lascannons is 40pts, Armourbane is +10. The Alt. Made draws off the base, at +1Str (+10), and the range reduction, shot reduction, gets hot, and +stunned all about even out. So 60pts for that gun.
The Solar one is trickier... I feel I priced the primary fire correctly at 60pts (Suncannon is 48", 3 shot Str6, AP2 Blasts, and costs roughly 40-50pts). (It should also really be Heavy 2, which would drop it to 40 easily) The Alt fire mode.. I'm not sure on and think I skimmed / screwed up a little, and while the +15 for 75pts total matches your estimate, it should probably have been +30, for 90pts total (+2 Str and those large blasts), with everything else about evening out.
But reducing them as I said above (halving the number of shots and restricting Armourbane to the Alt.fire), reduces cost and tones down the weapons to a more sensible level.
As to being a better platform, it's also a platform that costs 3-4 times more than the Techpriest, you'd sort of hope so.
I agree your adjustments are simpler. I tend to go wild with rules... However, the Lunar weapon is supposed to be that way. As you said, 1/12 chance of killing yourself, but then again, you have a far, far higher chance of annihilating any vehicle you see. S8 + Lance means you need a 5+ to pen. Throw armorbane in there and the likeliness of you penetrating the vehicle, plus doing significant damage due to AP1, skyrockets. It's not unusable, its a chancy drawback to a hugely powerful weapon that WILL roflstomp any tank it sees the same way the Solar one drops bombs of pure infantry facerolling from the roflcopter. You glass a squad of marines, and if those that are left move out of the blast zone, they roll DT and potentially kill the rest of their unit.
As for costs, Armorbane shouldn't necessarily be the same cost for every weapon. Armorbane on a Bolter shouldn't be the same as Armorbane on a Lascannon because of the huge difference in strength.
Actually, Armourbane itself is generally, going to be 10pts, as the bas Str is costed into the weapon, so the 2 weapons won't be the same. A Bolter with Armourbane is going to be about 12pts, rolling an average of 11 to pen (Low of 6, High of 16). (No Armourbane, average 7.5, L/H=5/10) A Lascannon is going to be 30, with an average of 16 (L/H=11/21). (No Armourbane average 12.5, L/H=10/16) The Linear costing system isn't perfect, but it normally evens out.
BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Ovion wrote: The change is fine. Pricing wise, Eternal Warrior is +35, the +Fear and FnP will be +20, so 290 overall. Though honestly, I'd say drop the EW and bring it back to 255. And I'd call the Jugernaut +50 for taking without a 'true' MoK.
Okay! I will see what my local gaming club thinks of these rules. Thanks a lot for the help!
No problem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 16:40:33
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