Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Someone at Forge World wrote:The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.

Now that's a rather...interesting thing to say, isn't it?

In that it's a direct insult of the main design studio? Yes.

Flipside it also accidentally acknowledging that every HH legion army is so nearly identical to each other that you need tons and tons of extra words to make it not just 18 armies worth of mirror matches.

Edit double post.I

Well, thats the reason HH is so balanced. Is like a WW2 historical game. Whenever everyone uses the same things, or things that are very similar with slighly differences... is much more easy to balance.

And I'm not saying this to go in favour or against HH or 8th edition. To each their own. I'm glad for both systems to remain different, even if I don't play HH. Thats gives people choice to stick to the ruleset they like more.

And, TBH, I call BS on the "8th don't give us enough deept". I'll wait to see both systems to analize it myself, but 8th isn't sigmar. It isn't as streamlined.

 ImAGeek wrote:
This is from the comments on BattleBunnies:

'In the seminar he said that 30k would develop separately to 40k from this point. The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.'

SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE.

 Galas wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Someone at Forge World wrote:The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.

Now that's a rather...interesting thing to say, isn't it?

In that it's a direct insult of the main design studio? Yes.

Flipside it also accidentally acknowledging that every HH legion army is so nearly identical to each other that you need tons and tons of extra words to make it not just 18 armies worth of mirror matches.

Edit double post.I

Well, thats the reason HH is so balanced. Is like a WW2 historical game. Whenever everyone uses the same things, or things that are very similar with slighly differences... is much more easy to balance.

And I'm not saying this to go in favour or against HH or 8th edition. To each their own. I'm glad for both systems to remain different, even if I don't play HH. Thats gives people choice to stick to the ruleset they like more.

The issue is that plenty of people played one against the other, from what I understand it's pretty common for 40k groups to have one or two guys who pick up 30k because of xyz reason. Those guys are largely boned. Atia, for example has said she likely won't play much anymore because she can't play against 40k anymore.

I don't know what boned meant. And it always sucks when people around you play a game you don't like. But that hasn't nothing to do with 30k vs 40k. It can happen with any other game. Even I don't know, videogames if people stop wargaming

But this is offtopic, sorry!

 RiTides wrote:
The odd thing about them sticking with 7th, is just two months ago they said they were going to 8th, right? That doesn't fill me with confidence about their long term plans for the system...

They said a lot of things.

They said they wouldn't, they said they would, the digital website said they were switching to something that wasn't 7th or 8th, then the website didn't say that. It's actually been a complete mess of communication from FW during this period. My guess is that it took them a few weeks to figure out what they were going to do (I guess the horrible stuff happening with Bligh wasn't helping matters either).

Yeah, sounds like they need time to figure gak out.

Finishing the last few Legions in the same rule set was a pleasant surprise. They can then port everything over to 8th at the same time if they later choose to do so.

Forgeworld never said they were going to 8th edition. They said for the time being, they will stick with 7th edition. Everyone just drew assumptions that they'd transition.

When you look at how they announced all of the 40K stuff would be getting updates to 8th, and their lack of any like message for 30K stuff, it seemed pretty clear that they were not planning on a transition, any time soon.

 Galas wrote:
I don't know what boned meant. And it always sucks when people around you play a game you don't like. But that hasn't nothing to do with 30k vs 40k. It can happen with any other game. Even I don't know, videogames if people stop wargaming

But this is offtopic, sorry!

Boned is a colloquial term that means 'to be fornicated with'

And the issue isn't that other people play a game they don't like, it's that they WERE playing the SAME game and now they aren't.I

The point is that the initial FAQ let everyone understand that they WILL eventually convert to 8th

A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.

Which later changed to..

Well, we can let you all know today, Forge World will be talking about the future of Horus Heresy games at Warhammer Fest this year.

And now no one can really tell for sure, what the hell are they actually planning

Quite a few 30k players in my group are mad, mostly because it wont use 40k rules, and that their playgroup got smaller because they cant play 40k players.
Our Judge is saying that anyone who wants to play 30k can FORCE their opponent to the 40k 7th.......
Its kinda dumb

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Quite a few 30k players in my group are mad, mostly because it wont use 40k rules, and that their playgroup got smaller because they cant play 40k players.
Our Judge is saying that anyone who wants to play 30k can FORCE their opponent to the 40k 7th.......
Its kinda dumb

The temptation to retaliate would be intense lol. 'Ah, okay well here's my 5 invisible wraithknight list and if that's too intense for how you guys wanna play, I also have a cabal star with Tau'nar Supremecy armor list I wanted to try out!'

A lot of the 30k players in my area are only lose organized and play the majority of their games agiest 40k players.

Splitting the community like this will probably kill a lot of interest in 30k unless gw does more to support the game and make the rule books easier to get ahold of. Digital is OK, but not everyone has a device that can support the books. The actual rule books need to be easier to get ahold of.

Well the announcement has caused a much more visceral reaction on the Australian 30K FB group page.

As in 1 side going on how they are a bit disappointed because they liked the direction 8th was heading, or are disappointing because it would widen the gap between 30k and 40k.

Those in the middle (like me) who don't care either way but understand that first group's worries.

There are those that are really happy with the news because they didn't like 8th.

And then there's the very vocal and abhorrent group that are going around calling anyone who likes 8th peasants, fat feths and a whole manner of slurs and other offensives things (and even terms that intended to cause offence that aren't offensive themselves - like brony).


... yeah it's a mess. And it's absurd. Luckily where I am there's still a rather large 30k crowd so I'll still be able to find opponents. To those of you who aren't as fortunate though, you have my condolences.

 CragHack wrote:
The point is that the initial FAQ let everyone understand that they WILL eventually convert to 8th

A few of you might be wondering how the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 affects Forge World’s Horus Heresy rules and army lists. Well, for the moment, it won’t! You can carry on using the existing Warhammer 40,000 ruleset for your Horus Heresy games.

Which later changed to..

Well, we can let you all know today, Forge World will be talking about the future of Horus Heresy games at Warhammer Fest this year.

And now no one can really tell for sure, what the hell are they actually planning

Don't forget their statement at the open day that 30K will always be a supplement to the 40K rules. But I guess they were being coy as to which rules?


Actually, I think that the sad news we received today means we may have a very fluid situation. It's understandable that they may be reeling right now, and that the direction of 30K could be clearer or change again some months from now. This decision seems to be about the short term and the path of least resistance, and it remains to be seen if it was chosen due to short-term needs, shortsightedness, or if it's the first part of a longer-term strategy.

I'm totally fine with the HH game remaining in 7th edition. Due to the nature of the armies alot of the problems with 7th didn't manifest , so it's cool.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

... yeah it's a mess. And it's absurd. Luckily where I am there's still a rather large 30k crowd so I'll still be able to find opponents. To those of you who aren't as fortunate though, you have my condolences.

There are honestly quite a few of us saying "Good, I hope it isnt play on league Night now" because the local 30k community is kinda toxic.
I know quite a few 30k players who are upset now.

Our local flags fb page just lit up with unanimous praise.for.the decision to stay with 7th. A couple of 40k players are even coming across to 30k.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Quite a few 30k players in my group are mad, mostly because it wont use 40k rules, and that their playgroup got smaller because they cant play 40k players.
Our Judge is saying that anyone who wants to play 30k can FORCE their opponent to the 40k 7th.......
Its kinda dumb

Even as a primarily 30k player, I would tell that judge which body part he could make wet...

That is just a sure-fire way to make your scene toxic, if it wasn't already.

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Someone at Forge World wrote:The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.

Now that's a rather...interesting thing to say, isn't it?

In that it's a direct insult of the main design studio? Yes.

Flipside it also accidentally acknowledging that every HH legion army is so nearly identical to each other that you need tons and tons of extra words to make it not just 18 armies worth of mirror matches.

Edit double post.I

Nah each legion has 2 pages of bespoke rules and thats it other than legion specific units. You can do that with a fully functioning core rule set.

Also they are basicly saying aos/8th is shallow which it is and your comment seems to apply to 8th more given the whole bespoke rules every unit.

SeanDrake wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Someone at Forge World wrote:The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.

Now that's a rather...interesting thing to say, isn't it?

In that it's a direct insult of the main design studio? Yes.

Flipside it also accidentally acknowledging that every HH legion army is so nearly identical to each other that you need tons and tons of extra words to make it not just 18 armies worth of mirror matches.

Edit double post.I

Nah each legion has 2 pages of bespoke rules and thats it other than legion specific units. You can do that with a fully functioning core rule set.

Also they are basicly saying aos/8th is shallow which it is and your comment seems to apply to 8th more given the whole bespoke rules every unit.

It goes beyond just the 2 pages of rules. It's how those unique rules interact with the base game. Like Initiative, which does not exist in 8th edition.

Yeah, Initiative has been replaced with Move, which would logically be very similar across the Legions (6" in the vast majority of cases for infantry, 5" for Terminators).

Having 20 different ways of playing essentially the same core list does require a high degree of granularity to differentiate between those ways, otherwise there isn't much point having the different characters to the Legions/Black Shields.

40k only needs that degree of difference for 6 Space Marine factions, and some of these are much more different than the Legions are from each other. It is a lot easier to mark them apart because of this.

I don't think it is an indication 8th is too shallow in general, only that a very high level of depth is required for 30k that isn't easily satisfied by 8th (I'm sure they could, with effort, but I think there are many other reasons to stick with 7th for now, as otherwise mentioned in this thread).

Losing initiative and gaining a movement stat is for some reason "low depth"?

Initiative mechanics never added MUCH to the game. they were most of the time all-or-nothing, and very rarely had subtle influences.

Movement? much for subtle influences. a marine moving 5 compared to one moving 6 compared to one moving 7 makes differences in shooting, in assault, in zone control, etc.



Let be honest, they looked for an excuse to put 30k and 40k apart, and this gave them just that.

Well the complete lack of of an actual morale system in 8th would be an issue for 30k. Given that some legions have a strong slant towards using pinning and fear there loss would be felt.

Anyone ask about upcoming releases... Of the decal variety? Maybe a certain green Knight house?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Losing initiative and gaining a movement stat is for some reason "low depth"?

Initiative mechanics never added MUCH to the game. they were most of the time all-or-nothing, and very rarely had subtle influences.

Movement? much for subtle influences. a marine moving 5 compared to one moving 6 compared to one moving 7 makes differences in shooting, in assault, in zone control, etc.



Let be honest, they looked for an excuse to put 30k and 40k apart, and this gave them just that.

I'm actually really glad 40k and 30k are different systems now.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Anyone ask about upcoming releases... Of the decal variety? Maybe a certain green Knight house?

I've got a feeling their head decal designer is still being a diva about it? IIRC that was what was said the last time around.

Don't forget that it's most likely not gonna be the 7th we know. There might as well be movement values and iniciative stat..

Actually our gaming group is quite pumped 30k is going to stay with the current ruleset. I dont think 8th edition is going to be all everyone makes it out to be. Just like most GW rules, it will start fairly balanced then as more codexes are released the escalation will start and the rules bloat etc. 30k is fine the way it is and it certainly doesnt need any of the new models in the design process- keeping 30k and 40k different is probably a good thing, and honestly you can put together a 40k army from most 30k collections and vice versa (even with a bit of proxying), now tournament are different but I dont think the majority of folks are tournament players.

 ImAGeek wrote:
This is from the comments on BattleBunnies:

'In the seminar he said that 30k would develop separately to 40k from this point. The 8th edition rules didn't give them the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.'

This has nice bonus that now they can basically change anything they want without worrying about 40k. If they want they could fix all the worst issues of 7th ed. HH fixed lots of issues but there are still some issues. Before they were at the mercy of main studio since it would be harder to change core rules. Now they can do that easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
Yeah, sounds like they need time to figure gak out.

Which is like "wtf". GW has been working on 8th ed for years. 2 years minimum, 3 years quite likely. Nobody in the meanwhile mentioned FW where things are going? Sounds like they heard it when it was announced to public...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Quite a few 30k players in my group are mad, mostly because it wont use 40k rules, and that their playgroup got smaller because they cant play 40k players.
Our Judge is saying that anyone who wants to play 30k can FORCE their opponent to the 40k 7th.......
Its kinda dumb

If there's 30k tournament kinda obvious opponents need to play 7th ed...If it's not tournament what judge and what forcing? Outside tournaments nobody can force me to play what I don't want. Hell even in tournament they can't force me to play what I don't want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CragHack wrote:
Don't forget that it's most likely not gonna be the 7th we know. There might as well be movement values and iniciative stat..

Yeah they could introduce that if they wanted. Biggest problem would be army books. They would either need to release new red books with M stats(when they did last version?) along side and/or PDF with M value for every unit.

But yeah just one thing they could do if they want to.

tneva82 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Quite a few 30k players in my group are mad, mostly because it wont use 40k rules, and that their playgroup got smaller because they cant play 40k players.
Our Judge is saying that anyone who wants to play 30k can FORCE their opponent to the 40k 7th.......
Its kinda dumb

If there's 30k tournament kinda obvious opponents need to play 7th ed...If it's not tournament what judge and what forcing? Outside tournaments nobody can force me to play what I don't want. Hell even in tournament they can't force me to play what I don't want.

ITs a 40k league night.