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Its probably the ork mentality in me. Orks literally cannot win right now if they dont immediately grab 3-4 objectives and hang onto them long as they can.
They have the speed and numbers to generally pull it off lol.

 Suzuteo wrote:
I don't own any Pterraxii, nor have I used them before, so I will refrain from commenting on the list. But I don't see why AdMech shouldn't embrace castles. I can see the point that you need to scrap over objectives, but I am of the opinion that castles can work when their high damage output is paired with durable, defensive objective grabbers.

My question is which is more effective and until we have enough data on both varients we can't give a clear answer

The reason I'm finding AdMech castles to be less valuable is that in practice your midfield presence is going to get ground up, and you're going to have to spread out your backfield units to hold multiple objectives. My typical list runs a pair of Dunecrawlers, and it is not uncommon for them to each hold an objective while the rest of my army dogpiles for a third. The more units you have chained together, the fewer units you can send to the midfield objective. Obviously my preference is for fast, aggressive armies anyway, but I feel very uncomfortable trying to plan out a castle's strategy. Even in the lists posted above, I don't feel like I'd have enough units in the midfield to properly contest let alone score.

I've seen some people posting success with infantry spam lists, and honestly I'm not surprised (that's why I run footsloggers with a Manipulus). Getting out of transports blunts the unit's ability to be proactive. Maybe it's the Drill's time to shine by assaulting on to an objective itself before disgorging ObSec. But I don't see Fulgerites in a Dunerider actually aggressing on to an enemy objective until turn 3, if they even get the opportunity at all. Non-mech infantry can actually attack the enemy's objective on turn 1 or 2.

I think Vineheart's list almost makes sense. However, I don't think Skystalkers are actually very good; it's really impractical to use their grenades and their guns don't feel terribly impactful. The Rangers with Arquebuses don't contribute very much either, since you already have a backfield castle. I dislike Deepstriking assault units (the Fulgerites in Drill), since even with a re-roll they only make a 9" charge 47% of the time. And otherwise, driving a lone Drill up the field is asking to get Eradicated. Plus the Fulgurites don't benefit from Omniscient Mask. Instead, you should probably use Hoplites. You just have to go all-in on infantry threats.

I could see something like this being tremendously obnoxious. I'm just not sure about the backfield tanks. You could probably abandon them for some Rangers and take Destroyers as your anti-tank. It may even make for a good Ryza battalion.

I've been having a lot of success with my list, which has a similar infantry push:The list is all push-threats all the time. I put about 50 wounds on the midfield objective which can often be too many bodies to dig through. With AP-1 Dogma and some strats and Canticles, even the lowly Vanguard end up being decent in close combat (to say nothing of the Ruststalkers). The Raiders and Fusilave are very reactive and typically keep enemies from getting to the Dunecrawlers and objectives in the back.

Question...

Our Locum strat for an additional warlord trait is not a once per game strat. It just has to be unique trait chosen.

If you have a spare character, wouldnt taking Monitor Malevolus be a wise idea? Even Daeddalosus can take it since its a core warlord trait not a dogma specific one.
Odds are its going to work once, which pays for itself, and you got that random reroll that may or may not matter. But if it works twice you just got a free cp. And now that we generate a cp each turn the odds of an opponent never using a strat in a round are extremely low.

Yes, you should always take Monitor if you can. However, Daedalosus can't be affected by Locum since it specifies a <Forge World> character.

Dang, missed that part lol.
So great idea for a random techpriest but not for dr.d

@DarkHound
The mistake I am seeing is people not bringing enough firepower in their castle. People keep talking about how fragile Dakkabots, Ballistarii, and Grav Destroyers are, but that is honestly beside the point. Crawlers and Grators are plenty durable, but if your opponent has enough time to kill your Boats and their contents, it does not matter how durable your tanks are; they are just paperweights plinking away at elite infantry that they cannot kill fast enough for you to close the gap on objectives. At least Dakkabots, Ballistarii, and Grav Destroyers can just quickly brutally sweep units off the board by dumping mortal wounds on them.

And yeah, if you have a spare Enginseer or Manipulus, you can take Monitor. But I personally stick to Cawl, Daedalosus, and Enginseer.

For sure about the firepower. I've done a lot of math on the damage output of other competitive armies lately, and the poor Crawlers lag so far behind other armies' most broken anti-tank options. We can't afford to do anything other than all-in at on the most efficient output and buffs without regard for durability.

It really feels like the whole army is balanced with Mars' canticle as a given, because without it very few weapons hit important strength breakpoints. Without Mars, a Ferrumite Disintegrator with its stratagem has an average damage of 6.1 vs T7 3+ at 155 points (Mars boosts this to 6.8, fully buffed with Artisan and Cawl gets 9.6). Two Lascannon Ironstriders with their stratagem active deals 7.8 damage at ~150 points (fully buffed with Artisan and Cawl is 10.3). These are our absolute best anti-tank units. The new golden boys, a trio of Eradicators, deal 9.4 damage at 120 points with no bonuses what-so-ever (and with buffs they're at like 15.5 damage at 24"). They are the most overpowered thing, but that's what we're competing against.

Mars brings up a bunch of cheaper generalist units to hit breakpoints that make them okay, but doesn't really improve peak output. I mean, 2 Autocannon Ironstriders with Mars canticle and their strat deal 4.4 damage to T7 3+ at ~130 points (7.9 fully buffed with Cawl and Artisan, but still less point efficient than Lascannons). An immobile Dakkabot with Mars does 2 wounds to T7 3+ at 125 points (3.7 fully buffed, which barely qualifies as anti-tank). Without Mars, you really are just down to Ferrumite and Las Ironstriders.

We don't have any short ranged anti-tank options, or infantry based-anti-tank. Our options for dealing with T8 are abysmal. We still have Mars Ferrumite Disintegrators, and Lascannon Ironstriders, but every other option falls off. You might think Neutron Lasers, but they've actually got an average damage of 3.4 against all targets and have few avenues for buffs; they're pretty terrible.

I had another game last weekend against marines - salamanders - ...... annoying annyoing annyoing XD



After that game i took some changes, now i decided to play this

double mars patrol:

Cawl
Manipulus

1x5 Vanguards
1x9 fulgurites
1x Dunerider
2x5 Raiders
2x Belleros Desintegrator

Daedalosus
1x5 Vanguards
1x5 Autocannon Ballistarii
1x10 Corpuscarii
1 Belleros Desintegrator
1x2 Dakka Bots

I kicked the onager, i had so much problems with deploy them with their huge base

A point to think about would be if i could play a single battalion, kick one grator and could add more screen or another dakka bot

Could this be enough for marines?

Your making the argument for soup more than anything else. We have great anti infantry and light vehicles but we don't have great AV

We dont shooting efficiency outside mars but that comes with big draw backs so if you want a more rounded force skip mars and take an ally

Only got Deathwatch as second army ^^

But i don´t want to soup =/

 DarkHound wrote:
For sure about the firepower. I've done a lot of math on the damage output of other competitive armies lately, and the poor Crawlers lag so far behind other armies' most broken anti-tank options. We can't afford to do anything other than all-in at on the most efficient output and buffs without regard for durability.

YES. THIS. I challenge anyone who thinks we can beat Marines in attrition to actually do the math. Which units of ours aside are more efficient than a comparable unit on their side? It's ONLY our glass cannon firebase that threatens them.

Crawlers aren't as good in 9E because Fly is not as relevant as it used to be. And with Dense terrain, you're stuck hitting on 5+.

It's pretty much Mars or Lucius if you want to be competitive IMO. And either way, you need to take high output units or you will fall behind and never catch up.

We do have Plasma Vanguard, but it's expensive to take them as Ryza and load them into Drills. As Mars, they are more there to add some punch against infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hesselhof wrote:
After that game i took some changes, now i decided to play this

double mars patrol:

Cawl
Manipulus

1x5 Vanguards
1x9 fulgurites
1x Dunerider
2x5 Raiders
2x Belleros Desintegrator

Daedalosus
1x5 Vanguards
1x5 Autocannon Ballistarii
1x10 Corpuscarii
1 Belleros Desintegrator
1x2 Dakka Bots

I kicked the onager, i had so much problems with deploy them with their huge base

A point to think about would be if i could play a single battalion, kick one grator and could add more screen or another dakka bot

Could this be enough for marines?

Salamander Eradicators are super strong. Is he outflanking them? How are you screening them?

I think you should cut the third Grator and go with a Battalion. I think you also need more efficient anti-Gravis options too. I personally like Grav Destroyers and Dakkabots, but a Corpuscarii bomb also works.

He did not flanked them, i simply missplayed this game, the easyest way would have been if i had outranged him, that was my mistake.

I dont own grav destroyer, if i would go fo a battalion there were 157 left

You should crunch the numbers on your average damage output to get an idea. I ran the numbers really quickly and only included Cawl's aura for the vehicles and Mars canticle. The other buffs won't always be on, but you can expect a slight increase with them.

Each Bellaros kills about 1 Gravis-equiv (T5 W3 3+), and each Disruptor missile kills about 1 more. The Corpuscarii with their strat kill about 3. The Ironstriders also kill about 3 and a half. The Dakkabots (doubleshooting) inflict about 8 wounds, so kill 2 and a half.

In total, your list kills about 15 Gravis-equiv models on a perfect turn. More realistically, between positioning, cover, and defensive strats, you'll kill two thirds or half that. Your opponent has 22 Gravis-equiv models, and 26 other models.

Honestly, I don't think AdMech has the tools to deal with a Gravis/Custodes meta. I think you'd be happy to kill ~35 out of his 50 models over 5 turns. There is no way that you can actually hold midfield objectives, however. And I don't know what secondaries you'd even take.

If you want to make list changes, figure out who your most efficient Gravis killers are and spam them. Then figure out some secondaries you're comfortable scoring 10+, and go for 40 points on primary. If you can deny him scoring somehow, you can eek out a win.

@DarkHound
Yes. A thousand times yes. I think people are trapped in this quarantine world where they think a durable TAC army is still relevant. Competitively speaking, the biggest threats are going to be Custodes, DG, and Marines spamming Gravis armor.

It's why I have been asking people to look into Heavy Grav Destroyers. I seriously am wondering if every competitive Mars list needs to run a unit if they expect to have an answer to Gravis. A full unit of 5x with Cawl and Enginseer with Magos buffing it. Elimination Volley to add punch. The firebase is VERY CP hungry though, so don't expect your assault teams will get any stratagems. Which rules out Electro-Priests in favor of Hoplites and Plasma Vanguard.

Another crazy idea I have been thinking is taking an Imperial Bunker:


Probably not the best idea given how tight the deployment is now, but it would be an interesting way to guarantee Destroyers and Robots both have some LOS blocker. Problem is that the Bunker itself cannot move out of the way, so maybe a Drill might be better...

A bunker?!? Suzuteo do your cogitators need recalibrating?

Played an Admech versus Admech game today. I lost (I was mars he was Stygies) he had breacher spam. But man my raider dogs kept me in the game. Tanked so many wounds and scored so much in the way of primaries, even did a cheeky deny charge strat to actually gain advantage on an objective

So much fun - my favourite unit right now. Even making knight lists with them (willing to be told that’s not a good idea though)

My most competitive theory crafted list is this modification of the Mars+Ryza I posted earlier:It is stacked full of exclusively the most efficient units against T5 W3. The Kataphrons kill ~12 Gravis models, and are far-and-away our most efficient output. The Ironstriders kill another 5.5 with Wrath of Mars and other buffs (this ends up being equal to Lascannons, but cheaper). The Disintegrators kill another 2 or 4, depending on LoS. If the Sterylizors can shoot and assault, they are actually our next most efficient Gravis-killer and also provide some kind of a midfield presence; each squad, fully buffed, kills about 4 Gravis.

The list outranges the common meta targets and has enough firepower to cripple their response. Just deploy as if you're going second, then vaporize their most damaging targets. We actually don't leave much for Eradicators or Grav Devastators to shoot at, which is an incidental bonus.

The Belaros are a slightly suboptimal damage output, but they let us score While We Stand with Cawl. It's very hard to get consistent secondaries against the top armies. We can also score Grind Them Down since we actually present very few units. Our third pick is also pretty flexible; we have some fast units to score Engage On All Fronts, or we can Raise The Banners, or score some kill secondaries. There's still 30 points to play around with, and I'm almost tempted to spend them on Servitors to do mission actions.

@DarkHound
What are you gong to hold objectives with? Or do you plan on tabling the other guy? Lol.

@Ideasweasel
Lol. It was just a crazy idea.

A more serious list:


My only concern is dropping that Fusilave. It makes it a lot easier to pick up Engage On All Fronts, and there's always something to bomb.

EDIT: Another weird list idea. This one is just me trying to make the army as elite as possible while still having a castle:

Now the above looks interesting.

My opponent did a cheeky move. I popped his transport with 10 staff priests inside. He did a 6” disembark onto an objective that I had 5 doggos parked on.

And his turn he acquisition at all costs after smacking the dogs for daring to bark. Admech tricks have some legs just now.

Ideasweasel wrote:So much fun - my favourite unit right now. Even making knight lists with [Raiders] (willing to be told that’s not a good idea though)

They're probably the best unit to solve all the Knight's issues. Personally, I've been thinking about the Warglaives+Dunecrawler+Fusilave list I posted earlier; as I keep doing the math, the Dunecrawlers become less appealing to me, so I might go with 3x3 Raiders in an Outrider detachment instead. As I've gotten a handle on them, they just provide so many tools that Knights in particular lack. Running ahead to claim objectives is one thing, but they also deny counter-charges from scary threats

Suzuteo wrote:@DarkHound
What are you gong to hold objectives with? Or do you plan on tabling the other guy? Lol.

I mean, I do think it's possible to table them, but that's what the Sterylizors are for. My thinking is none of our units are tough enough to just sit on objectives in the midfield. If Marine/Custodes ObSec comes knocking, we're going to fold anyway, "Soldiers of the Machine God" or no. Goonhammer's article makes a point of this, and it matches my experience: ObSec is a nice bonus on an already capable unit, not a valuable trait on its own.

Instead, around turn 3 after the enemy's been softened up, the Sterylizors can jump on to objectives and kill the occupants. We don't need ObSec if the enemies are all dead; mostly what we need is good assault units to take objectives. I elected to forgo Duneriders because one or two in the midfield isn't enough target saturation for them to survive. If we're trying to cram as much output as possible, I just don't think 100pt bricks make the cut.

Suzuteo wrote:Another weird list idea. This one is just me trying to make the army as elite as possible while still having a castle:

Spoiler:

Mars Patrol Detachment

HQ - 235
1x Belisarius Cawl - Static Psalm-Code (-1 CP)
1x Tech-priest Enginseer - Warlord: Divinations of the Magos

Troop - 225
5x Kataphron Destroyer - 5x Heavy Grav-Cannon, 5x Heavy Flamer

Elite - 310
10x Fulgurite Electro-Priest
10x Corpuscarii Electro-Priest

Transport - 200
1x Skorpius Dunerider
1x Skorpius Dunerider

Fast Attack - 405
5x Ironstrider Ballistarii - Twin Cognis Autocannon
5x Serberys Raiders

Heavy Support - 625
5x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Total: 2000 points
11 CP

To my previous point, I think this is the best version of the list yet. Unlike my hypothetical list, I think the Robots and Ironstriders do provide some threat overload for the Duneriders.

Hey I've got a few questions for the Armigers users here, I've always liked the models and I'm thinking about getting some. I don't want them to be useless though so here's my questions:

- Can I run just 2-3 Armigers without Knights and still be battle-forged ?
- If yes, do I still get the Household traits or the custom ones from Engine War ?
- Which ones do you play between Helverins and Warglaives ?
- Why are you using them instead of something AdMech-y ?

I'm thinking about getting some Warglaives to run alongside my 4 Kastelans with Fists, seeing as they're fast and have polyvalent weapons. Helverins look kinda redundant when compared to Ironstriders, no ?

You can run 3 armigers in the 3 low slots in a superheavy detatchment you will benefit from households or custom ones it will cost you 3 cp

Of those choices it depends on the rest of your army but for preference the armiger moirax

If your running a knights list you want admech support pure knights doesn't work. While I run armigers I don't run pure armigers I run 2 big and 2 little

unless they removed it and i missed it, armigers in a superheavy detachment dont benefit from house rules there HAS to be at least 1 titanic model in there.
And i really dont see a reason to run armigers unless theyre filling slots for a normal knight. Armigers are nice but they dont really do much Admech dont do as it is.
i have a knight and 5 armigers (sold 1 warglaive) that are just collecting dust. i simply cant justify using them purely for the cp investment required, unless i make the knight the warlord and no thanks. Armigers not around a preceptor feel really lackluster

Aaranis wrote:Hey I've got a few questions for the Armigers users here, I've always liked the models and I'm thinking about getting some. I don't want them to be useless though so here's my questions:

- Can I run just 2-3 Armigers without Knights and still be battle-forged ?
- If yes, do I still get the Household traits or the custom ones from Engine War ?
- Which ones do you play between Helverins and Warglaives ?
- Why are you using them instead of something AdMech-y ?

I'm thinking about getting some Warglaives to run alongside my 4 Kastelans with Fists, seeing as they're fast and have polyvalent weapons. Helverins look kinda redundant when compared to Ironstriders, no ?

There are a few ways to include Warglaives. You can include 1-3 in a single Auxiliary Super Heavy detachment for 3CP, but they don't get any House traits. You can run a minimum of 3 in a Super Heavy Detachment, also for 3CP, and they do get a House traits and one becomes a Character (which lets them heroically intervene and stuff). You could also make that character your Warlord to refund the 3CP and get a Warlord trait and Relic, if you're so inclined.

The best house traits are either Krast, or some combination of Defiant Fury/Glorified History/Noble Combatants/Guardians of the Frontier/Slayers of Beasts. Personally, I use Defiant Fury and Noble Combatants when I'm not including a big Knight. Noble Combatants is probably the best trait, it's essentially an unconditional +1 to hit and applies to both chainglaive sweep and strike. It's fairly common that multiple Warglaives are damaged, and Defiant Fury saves CP on Machine Spirit Resurgent and keeps them from degrading (or you can stack it with Resurgent to increase their damage substantially).

Helverins are pretty weak outside of pure Knights. They do have damage 3 weapons, which is something AdMech sorely lacks in this meta. However, they're mostly just backfield objective-sitters and AdMech has more efficient units for that (Dunecrawlers, Ironstriders).

Warglaives, on the other hand, are quite strong once you have enough of them. They are a stronger, faster melee threat than anything else AdMech has. The trick is positioning them for optimal Pack Hunters and Pack Tactics. The stratagems get stronger as they affect more Warglaives, so you really want 3 or 4. Pack Hunters gives charge re-rolls to every other Warglaive within 12" of one that charged, but they can then charge different targets. Likewise, Pack Tactics says every Warglaive in combat with a unit gets +1 attack for each other Warglaive (up to 2), but they don't have to attack that unit.

The Warglaive bases are pretty large, so I've had situations where 3 Warglaives can charge a central enemy unit while tagging peripheral units. The first Warglaive charges the central unit and provides Pack Hunters re-rolls to the others. They then each charge another unit to either side. The 3 Warglaives are all attacking different units, but they all get +2 attacks from Pack Tactics by being within 1" of that central enemy. This is especially easy to pull-off around vehicles, doubly so for transports. More often, you just dogpile 3 Armigers on an important threat and annihilate it.

Vineheart01 wrote:unless they removed it and i missed it, armigers in a superheavy detachment dont benefit from house rules there HAS to be at least 1 titanic model in there.
And i really dont see a reason to run armigers unless theyre filling slots for a normal knight. Armigers are nice but they dont really do much Admech dont do as it is.
i have a knight and 5 armigers (sold 1 warglaive) that are just collecting dust. i simply cant justify using them purely for the cp investment required, unless i make the knight the warlord and no thanks. Armigers not around a preceptor feel really lackluster

Your first point is wrong, I'm afraid, and I disagree with everything else. The House rules just require all units in a Super Heavy Detachment (not Auxiliary) to be from the same household; nothing about Titanic units, you can bring all Armigers. The new Knight Lances rule provides +3 CP if your Warlord is in a Super Heavy Detachment, or +6 if your Warlord is Titanic; that just counteracts the 3CP cost of the Super Heavy Detachment, or 6 if it includes any Titanic units, but doesn't require any Titanic units.

I can understand that if you're going to include a big Knight, it has to be the Warlord due to CP costs. I can appreciate a majority AdMech player not wanting to do that: it prevents Holy Order traits and Forgeworld Canticles. The Warglaives, however, are just better assault units than almost anything we have, and they have the added bonus of providing target saturation for our vehicles. They're faster than anything we have, especially with Full Tilt or Flanking Maneuver.

AdMech sorely lacks good, durable midboard threats, and Warglaives are great at that.

Okay. Did some tweaking, and here's what I've got for AdMech Zoo:



Cawl for obvious reasons.

Daedalosus for +1 to hit. I am not taking the HO WLT because I want to save 1 CP (this list is VERY CP hungry) and keep the deployment loose.

4x Grav Destroyers crush power armour. Mostly a future proofing move because I expect W2 Marines to run rampant. They are amazingly efficient for this job. Also enables Elimination Volley. I went with a unit of 4 to reduce unit footprint; 5 Destroyers and 5 Dakkabots are really awkward to move around.

4x Dakkabots provide the weight of fire and mortal wounds against tough-to-crack units like Custodes. Hide them on turn one behind Obscuring or Dense terrain. There is also an option to put them into reserves.

5x Auto Ballistarii to hunt vehicles and monsters. They are essentially S15 after you use the new Pattern Iteration Identified stratagem. They also murder T4 W2 elites. Also relying on these guys and Electro-Priests to kill stuff like Nurglings.

5x Serberys Raiders to screen and grab objectives as needed.

10x both varieties of Priest in Boats. Fulgurites are bullies that specialize in clearing infantry in melee. Corpuscarii are a bomb unit that can help soften the target up before Fulgurites charge in for the kill. I'm actually quite impressed by the variety of threats that they can handle together.

The Boats themselves also offer great value, as they can advance and still shoot decently well with 12x S5 shots. They can then body and LOS block in the midboard.

Finally, a Fusilave for anti-horde, Seismic Bomb to slow down the opponent, and to easily get Engage On All Fronts.

Well first big Scottish event next weekend the lists are up and mine is the only list with any AdM in it and i'm Soup so not looking good for admech especially in a team tournament.

hello again, hive mind of the internet!

I have another FNG question: how likely/realistic is it that my warlord (tech priest dominus, in this case) is going to get into melee? I've be playing around with listbuilding and finally got enough to a grip on what i feel are the basics to start looking at stuff like dogmas and relics.

Now, looking at what i have and what those guys can take, i'm really weighting up the choice of either one of the axe relics or the super-phosphor serpenta. now, I assume that the Admech are mostly a gunnery army and they dont like getting into melee (electro-priests notwithstanding), so i'm leaning towards the serpenta, but at the same time that serpenta is the Dominus' secondary gun, and i'm toying with the axes relics on the off chance that he does get into combat. which would you recommend, or am i completely off base with my thinking?

1) do you want it to. I mean with reserves, stygies or lucius you could... but its not very good. Models like enginseers make better caddys for the omniscient mask to support mellee troups like hoplites because they are more expendable and cheaper.

2) your dominous is usually with your artillery for aura buffs in some games will assault armies kill your screens and charge your vehicles - yep - and when they do your dominous will probably fight but again not very good at it but it can get lucky

We are starting a new edition and whats good is not clear because the rules have changed a lot and there hasn't been a lot of tournaments so its really guess work.

Mars is one of the more popular builds and that is all about the shooting. And no it prefers not to be in melee.

However players like myself advocate a more infantry focused less shooty strategy. With melee being an active component. So if you want melee that's the way to go. Hoplites, serberys raiders, corpuscarii, vanguard.

I wouldnt go for the axe relics the problem is the dominous puts out so few attacks even with relic it wont kill much. The best relic in a melee orientated list is the omniscient mask because it boosts most of your units that can mellee

Yeah, our HQs are not powerful enough offensively to justify any investment. Unfortunately, a lot of our relics try to boost their damage, and are thus terrible.

The Autocaduceus is the most common choice for Dominus or Enginseers baby-sitting artillery. It doesn't do very much (increases the average result by <0.5 wounds), but it's better than literally nothing. Omniscient Mask is a common pick for Enginseers and Manipuli accompanying assault elements, though many armies don't have an HQ to spare for it. It is the best neutral relic by far if you can utilize it, though.

The Phospheonix is almost good enough to be a throw-away relic like the Autocaduceus, but it's pretty unlikely that the Dominus gets to use it at all. Basically, if the enemy is within 18" of your backline, things are already going badly enough that this pea-shooter won't bail you out.

By far, the most common and effective Forgeworld is Mars, and their relic sucks, so they use one of the good neutral ones.

Lucius is probably the second most powerful, and their Relic is actually very good. A 30" teleport lets your HQ go from baby-sitting the artillery to capping an unoccupied objective. It's the only relic that can almost directly score VPs.

Graia's relic is the definition of a throw-away relic. If you aren't using an Omniscient Mask, you take this. You have to bring it on a Dominus though.

If Aggripina ever becomes playable, their relic is actually the best in the entire book. The bearer targets an enemy vehicle within 18", and then your entire army (board-wide) gets re-roll 1s to wound. That's the broadest and most effective force multiplier relic. That's not saying enough, though, because every other Forgeworld trait (the dogma, canticle, stratagem, warlord trait) is absolutely worthless.

The only other relic that gets an honorable mention is Psuedogenetor. At extremely low points levels (750pts or fewer), you need all hands on deck. The Psuedogenetor makes any of our HQs (but particularly a Manipulus) actually serviceable in close combat. It increase damage output against most targets more than either the Pater Cog-tooth, the Red Axe, or the Adamantine Arm.

The rest are really, really bad. You basically have 4 playable choices: Omniscient Mask if you have assault units (and you do need some in 9th), Solar Flare if you're Lucius, Techno-mitre if you're Graia, or Autocaduceus if nothing else.

U02dah4 Surprising your the only one. Is it full of expected FOTM stuff like salamanders Custodes etc?

Any brave imperial knight players in there?