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2022/02/01 09:35:39
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The list is an irrelevance its pre changes and drops just over 180pts. That's a huge power drop if you wanted to take essentially the same list again Post changes even a player that skilled will see a big drop in performance
2022/02/01 11:03:51
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: The list is an irrelevance its pre changes and drops just over 180pts. That's a huge power drop if you wanted to take essentially the same list again Post changes even a player that skilled will see a big drop in performance
What are you talking about? Here's the list he ran, it's using the current points.
Coincidentally, it does answer my question about Belleros Skorpiuses.
Anyway, no, this list is not indicative of some hidden well of potential. Siegler designed it to play extremely well into the precise meta of one particular tournament and it is not a flexible TAC list otherwise. If you took this to your local shop, you'd get stomped relentlessly, partly because it's difficult to pilot, and mostly because it lines up awfully into anything BESIDES Custodes/Wracks/Tyranids.
Amusingly, I think Siegler's list would do terribly against Armiger spam.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/02/01 11:10:00
That better not be his list, because those Rangers and Vanguard are not listed as "Veterans"...and it's mandatory to do so in a Skitarii Army of Renown. This is how it should be reading. Total Models: 93 Total PL: 96
Kanluwen, the list you wrote is totally wrong. What I posted isn't literally the official transcript he turned into the LVO. However, the list payed the correct points for everything. Your list has the wrong number of models, upgrades, and power levels. A 5 man Veteran squad doesn't gain a PL, and a 19 man squad (which both of his big blocks are) only gain 1 PL. Plus two of his Ruststalker squads have 8 models and the Manipulus is a Logi.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/02/01 17:28:46
And yeah. We settled this elsewhere. I had the wrong numbers on some of it, that's why it looked wrong. Because I don't expect people to just go one model shy of the cap on Rangers and bare minimum on Vanguard.
Additionally, you'd still be bumping the PL by 1 for the Veterans keyword on Vanguard.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/01 17:29:17
2022/02/01 17:40:09
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I listed the PL correctly in all cases, and mentioned the +1PL in my last post. There is no rule that increases the PL of a 5 man squad. That online tool is hilariously wrong. You can't trust official GW apps to be correct. It shows the Veterans squads as being 3 PL at 5 men, 6 PL at 10, 9 PL at 15, and 12 PL for 20. If we disagree about anything else, we know that it should be 10PL for 20, therefore the tool is wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/01 17:41:09
I'm only really feeling the nerfs with the PL changes. I've been playing Crusade almost exclusively for a while now, and in fact I'm the event organizer at the local store after the staffer running it switched jobs. The PL nerfs to non-Troops just brought them in line with the points, fine. The PL nerfs to Skitarii are egregious. Even variants of my Matched Play list suffer since it's more difficult to use reserves.
The silver lining is that I was already thinning my Skitarii down to 3x5 since the Armigers' counts-as-5-models made additional bodies less relevant than one model with ObSec. In missions where I need it, I can still reserve 3 squads for 1 CP to do actions.
My Metalica with Knights is still running rampant. I almost tried a Metalica Veterans Cohort in this latest league, but I realized how un-fun it would be for all involved. You can pile every buff in the world on 20 Skitarii and they'll run 15" up the board, charge another ~9", then shoot and punch everything to death. Then you add on all the Crusade buffs...
Anyway, I have this new (non-Veterans) Stygies list I'm cooking up to add some variety. It has a Vindicare Assassin I'm custom building as a Skitarii sniper to show off the arquebus.
If I was paying CP instead of Crusade's Requisition Points, I probably wouldn't take Eyes of the Omnissiah. I'd think twice about Firepoint too. I think I'll frequently use the Stygies strat to forward deploy the Marshall with the Infiltrators. The Veiled Hunter is just too cool not to use. It should ensure the Dunecrawlers always have optimal deployments, or may let me reserve the whole army in a pinch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/06 17:06:06
I've been struggling with all the NERFs, I don't really play META lists and playing the stuff I like now it's far too easy to die.
I'm ay an event on the 19th so I'm going to try a defence cohort list,
Dominus with obsec WL trait for robots
Technoarcheologist with action+shoot WL trait
2x Datasmith, one with Logi to transhuman robots
2x5 Robots, Half single fist and phosphors half double fist and flamers.
3x4 Breachers, Heavy Arc and Hclaws.
Galant with +1 attack and 5++ in melee (Taranis to have the possibility to come back)
Plan is to be v hard to shift off objectives with -1 damage and obsec. Hit hard in melee with fists and claws to stop me getting bullied off and using obsec on these to try and keep as much of the objectives as possible.
Lost works out 2k pts on the nose and 131PL.
I'm fully expecting to loose all 3 games simply due to lack of table time in 9th, I've only managed 1 2K game at a table with my AdMech
Approx armies
9000pts AdMech (Main army)
7000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
2000pts Harlequins (fun side project)
2022/02/07 12:14:46
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
DarkHound wrote: I'm only really feeling the nerfs with the PL changes. I've been playing Crusade almost exclusively for a while now, and in fact I'm the event organizer at the local store after the staffer running it switched jobs. The PL nerfs to non-Troops just brought them in line with the points, fine. The PL nerfs to Skitarii are egregious. Even variants of my Matched Play list suffer since it's more difficult to use reserves.
The silver lining is that I was already thinning my Skitarii down to 3x5 since the Armigers' counts-as-5-models made additional bodies less relevant than one model with ObSec. In missions where I need it, I can still reserve 3 squads for 1 CP to do actions.
My Metalica with Knights is still running rampant. I almost tried a Metalica Veterans Cohort in this latest league, but I realized how un-fun it would be for all involved. You can pile every buff in the world on 20 Skitarii and they'll run 15" up the board, charge another ~9", then shoot and punch everything to death. Then you add on all the Crusade buffs...
Anyway, I have this new (non-Veterans) Stygies list I'm cooking up to add some variety. It has a Vindicare Assassin I'm custom building as a Skitarii sniper to show off the arquebus.
If I was paying CP instead of Crusade's Requisition Points, I probably wouldn't take Eyes of the Omnissiah. I'd think twice about Firepoint too. I think I'll frequently use the Stygies strat to forward deploy the Marshall with the Infiltrators. The Veiled Hunter is just too cool not to use. It should ensure the Dunecrawlers always have optimal deployments, or may let me reserve the whole army in a pinch.
Your Armiger's only get obsec if your entire army is Imperial Knights though? So each just counts as a 5 man non-obsec squad. Admittedly it's better than a vehicle sat on objective but a single troops choice will take the objective from you.
2022/02/07 17:09:40
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Right, my point is that I only need 1 Skitarii model to counter their ObSec, rather than needing a bunch of Skitarii bodies to control the objective. If both players have any ObSec, control is determined by the number of models again, so one or two Armigers is plenty. It's hard for the enemy to get additional bodies in range around the Armiger's big bases (let alone the Knight's). Often I just need one turn to break their control by charging a couple Armigers, followed by Skitarii using Aggressor Doctrina and March to War.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/09 06:09:08
So, how crazy is a list based around cult mechanicus stuff?
Lots of kataphrons, LOTS of electropriests, and robots?
I've been thinking Ryza for the melee boost and the strat for plasmaphrons.
The heart and soul of the list 60 priests (3x10 of both fulgurites and corpuscarii), 3 fighty robots, 3 units of 5 breachers 2 torsion cannons in each, and then as many kataphron destroyers as can be fit.
It seems crazy but I love the idea.
2022/03/11 02:22:46
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Mechanicus Defense Cohort is putting up relatively consistent top GT finishes. Gavin Heritage took 3rd at Void Hammer GT, then 4th at the OPG GT, with 15 Kataphron Breachers and 10 Kastelan Robots. Ben Warrior came in 4th at the Adelaide Uprising major with this list:
Just going Cult Mechanicus without the Defense Cohort isn't bad. It's never been a bad army for casual play, just worse than Skitarii, then Skitarii Veterans. You're going to struggle against Tau and Custodes, but that's inevitable.
I recently played with 12 robots and 15 kataphrons and went 2-1. It's a fun list and defiantly has some plus sides, it could do a lot better than I did (I've only played 5 2k games in 9th and 3 where on the same day with this list).
I had planned to take a Galant but found out close to the event it breaks the defence cohort so added in more robots and kataphrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 21:52:18
Approx armies
9000pts AdMech (Main army)
7000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
2000pts Harlequins (fun side project)
2022/03/18 16:18:23
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Just looking for some advice on my ad mech, had them since 2016 and got back in just before the newest codex, even at release ive never won a game currently on a 35+ (lost count) loss streak. so the constant nerfs are just making it worse for me.
ive been told its because i dont focus my builds enough, i have almost 1 of each squad at base numbers e.g. 10 rangers, 10 vanguard. we play at 2k points. i get tabled every game by every army (local astra militarum player is on a 72+ win streak) they just cant kill anything either the BS sucks or the weapon STR is abysmal.
am i effectively being forced to have to spend £££'s to even get a single win? im not wanting to win every game but being tabled constantly isnt fun. i even take a knight sometimes that doesnt last till turn 4. ive spent ages and dragged games out checking my codex for what i can do each phase and badgering the opponent for every stat of their models and stratagems they can use. nothings working.
were a small group of 8 players and arnt interested in tournaments or meta lists so im not going against the latest overpowered army or list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/18 16:20:28
"An open mind is like a fortress, with its gates unbarred and unguarded"
2022/03/19 18:29:15
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
There's a guy at our local shop that sounds pretty similar. It sounds like you've got issues at every level: knowing your rules, building your list, and executing a gameplan. You should never need to dig through your rulebook looking for something you missed to save you. It sounds like your army has no focus, which probably also means you don't have a plan to win the game. I could give you a competitive army list, but it wouldn't help you yet.
If you want to get better at the game, you have to study and plan. There's plenty of resources on Youtube from top tournament players on how they plan and play. My go-to content creators are Art of War 40k, Tabletop Titans, and Daniel Brewster. I also read up on Goonhammer.com. Here, read this entire catalogue of articles on the basics of playing well.
To give you an idea of the preparation I take when playing Matched Play: I start by taking a look at the missions and secondary objectives. When I build an army list, I'm building toward those objectives. I have 3 or 4 secondary objectives that my army is designed to score easily. I have a notebook where I write down my secondaries and how I plan to achieve them.
In that notebook, I also keep a shorthand list of my unit's abilities and stratagems in each phase. I don't look at my rulebook; I have a one page flowchart of my abilities. Beyond that, I have a written plan for how I'm going to generally spend command points to achieve the objectives.
My notebook also has a shorthand profile for each of my units, and I've done the math for average results of their attacks against typical targets. Since I know what my average damage is, and I can quickly calculate my opponent's damage, I can estimate what the board will look like after each of our turns and plan for it.
The list building portion of the game is as important as the game itself.
You need to work out what you want you want your army to do and acquire units to do that.
Taking a scatter gun approach will never work. You don't need to spend a huge amount to have a list that can win sometimes but 40k is a strategy game
Think of it this way an army of just infantry makes their anti tank guns fairly useless an army of just walkers makes their anti infantry weak. Takeing one of everything means all their guns have an optimal target.
You should be looking at every unit in your army and saying why am I taking it how does it help me do the objectives I'm going to pick, would another do it better.
And if you don't have those units buy them it's not an ultra cheap hobby but as with any hobby golf, hockey, mtg, esports there is a cost.
Your currently saying I want to be a winner but I don't want to put the effort in.
Between my last tourney and this I theory crafted about 3 lists then a gwfaq change meant I crafted another 5 then I finalised one. Only at thar point I obtained another unit, kitbashed a character and hit my bits box to change some guns net I paid £25 I have a very different force for my next event.
I will then repeat that process again.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/03/20 16:18:41
2022/03/19 23:10:09
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
greavous wrote: Just looking for some advice on my ad mech, had them since 2016 and got back in just before the newest codex, even at release ive never won a game currently on a 35+ (lost count) loss streak. so the constant nerfs are just making it worse for me.
ive been told its because i dont focus my builds enough, i have almost 1 of each squad at base numbers e.g. 10 rangers, 10 vanguard. we play at 2k points. i get tabled every game by every army (local astra militarum player is on a 72+ win streak) they just cant kill anything either the BS sucks or the weapon STR is abysmal.
am i effectively being forced to have to spend £££'s to even get a single win? im not wanting to win every game but being tabled constantly isnt fun. i even take a knight sometimes that doesnt last till turn 4. ive spent ages and dragged games out checking my codex for what i can do each phase and badgering the opponent for every stat of their models and stratagems they can use. nothings working.
were a small group of 8 players and arnt interested in tournaments or meta lists so im not going against the latest overpowered army or list.
a few comments:
1) as others have said, you need to focus your army build more. yes, this will mean spending a bit of cash, but if it leads to a better army, then its worth it. look at each unit in your army and work out what it does for you. Does it shoot good? does it fight well? can it sit on an objective and be hard to kill? is it cheap and disposable? they all have their place in the army list. if you find that you end up relying on a few units in your games, then maybe invest in more. since you already have a "wide" range, its worth getting some "depth" to your army, and having more than 2k in units just means that you have options. Ideally, you should be turning up to the game with a rough idea of how your army is going to win the game. is it going to sit back, let the enemy rush the centre, then counterattack crush them? are you going to aggressively deploy forward to pressure the enemy? use a few cheap "chaff" units as a sacrifice to pull the enemy out of cover?
2) also, learn your codex, and what tricks you have. may i suggest getting the datacards? they help you keep track of things like the canticles and doctrines, and also can act as a quick reference guide for strats. if your struggling to keep it all straight, maybe consider writing a "cheat sheet" with a few of the most useful for you strats on it for easy reference. something like "tech priest dominus gives re-rolls 1s to hit in 6 inches", or "infiltrators with taser goads can get 2 extras hits on 5+ for 1cp". in battle, try to focus your fire on a few units each turn, and really "overkill" them. the sheer number of dice rolls means that you need to assign a lot more firepower to a task than you might think. for rangers with galvanic rifles to kill a single 2 wound intercessor, for example, takes 12 shots, (12 shots, 67% hit, 50% wound, 50% get through armour), but in protector imperative (ie when your rangers are BS2+) it drops to 10 shots.
3) it sounds like that while your local scene is not tournament centric, they aren't bad players, either. have you considered asking them what your doing wrong, at least form a tactics perspective? It might be illuminating to hear about how they perceive the situation, and it might start getting you to realise mistakes your making.
4) if your getting overwhelmed at 2k points, maybe ask your regular opponents if they would consider a 1k game instead. That narrows the focus down for both sides, and lets you experiment with a more focused list, and maybe with fewer units and combos to remember, you'll "get your feet" a bit better.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2022/03/21 16:36:55
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
As an example - I'm a player with two second place trophies for the last codex with mechanicus/IK. However recently I have been playing another faction SoB. So I'm coming back to this codex now due to a team event where i cant run sisters
So I'm going agripinaa because of the survivability strat for servitors, eye of xi relic, broken vs vehicles and a bit more AP because who doesn't want their Non LOS energy cannons to be better
When I look at my list I pick 2 HQs (the minimum) my choices are the enginseer because +1 to hit is always nice and the technoarcheologist because with eldar coming I want something to hold back deep strike shenanigans I'm going to pile on what kataphron buffs I can.
Finally, I'm going to take an inquisitor because we are slow I don't want to play board control to heavily so I need a psychic objective and a radical inquisitor is the most effective as they can reroll the test and I want to do so as cheaply as possible (oh and in creating that he gets a free relic so -1 to wounds because he's so important let's keep him alive).
Next two breacher units with +1T to maximise survivability given players may be loading up on anti custodes weapons
and one shooty which will deploy via deepstrike
3 units of hoplites because they are great counterpunchers and survivable for their cost
1 servitor as a cheap objective holder and deep strike denier
two units of Raiders to character snipe early objective hold and act as a delay one with defence buff and reroll A and a slightly smaller one to get in close with the skull of elder nikolai
finally, 3 disintegrators to provide some fire support from behind terrain. Boosted by the enginseer
Mission wise im always taking psychic interrogation, then either accretion of knowledge or uncharted sequencing, the final one is dependent on mission/opposing army
I'm inexperienced with the new codex and I'm not holding this as a top list it's not if I had time before the event I would go mechanicus cohort but I don't have time so ill go with what I've got.
My point is there is thought behind each of those units i didn't just take 1 of each in fact I only have a small fraction of our available choices
I know I'm engaging in ranged combat and holding the minimum objectives counter punching with the hoplites when they come to me. I know I want a tight formation with Serberys as a mote to delay the enemy and score me uncharted sequencing T1 on a distant objective that I will promptly lose and ignore
Nothing is in there randomly or just to take up space
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/03/21 16:39:34
2022/03/24 10:28:15
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Until my last few games I've always brought dunecrawlers, if you bring two with a necromechanic engineseer he can make both hit on 2+ for 1cp and he can heal up to 6w a turn, making them pretty annoying to shift.
They're not as top tier now they don't rr1 for the invuln but they look cool and are fun. That's how I run them at least.
Approx armies
9000pts AdMech (Main army)
7000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
2000pts Harlequins (fun side project)
2022/03/24 15:12:22
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Is there any workable way to play with Serberys and dunecrawlers?
I would like to play with skitarii with a little more variety than spam the same unit
my understanding is that the serberys raiders, with thier scout move, ability to move out of charges, and very low points cost, see regular play in a "spanner in the works" role to hold up the enemy and force him to expend effort on a cheap but suprisingly durable unit.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2022/05/01 21:04:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I think it means we can take both a mechincus knight and a freeblade and keep out faction stuff, but that's 6cp without the extra warlord traits/relics.
How are people finding AdMech ATM?
I've been struggling since our NERFs and had my best luck with a defence cohort list (12 robots, 12 breachers and 3 destroyers) but I've not tried that since the latest balance for marines (my usual opponents).
Approx armies
9000pts AdMech (Main army)
7000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
2000pts Harlequins (fun side project)
2022/05/03 07:45:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Last report I heard from admech is 26% WR the last week.
Considering how complicated the army is, it's entirely shelved for me until something changes.
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AdMech (Main army)
Black Templars (original army)
Death Guard (lazy side project)
Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
Harlequins (fun side project)
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
