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Just in time for Easter, some discussion about Repentia characters (and Ovion's old Repentia homebrew) have inspired me to write up some Repentia who, denied the swift release of death, are walking the long and bloody road towards some kind of redemption.....

[UPDATE: The final (?) versions of all these units -- and two dozen others -- are now in my Sororitas fandex/expandnex]

Today is the greatest
Day I've never known
Can't wait for tomorrow
I might not have that long
I'll tear my heart out
Before I get out

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets
My angel wings
Were bruised and restrained...
--- Hymn of the Repentia, attributed to Saint Corgan

*

New special rule: Inspiring Survivor
That some Repentia survive their suicidal missions of self-redemption is considered a miracle, one that inspires their sisters to attempt miracles in their turn.
A model with this special rule is treated exactly as if it were carrying a Simulacrum Imperialis.

*

Repentia Veteran: 45 points
Damn you all for cowards! My sins may be too great for the Sisterhood, but at least I know my duty to the Imperium. Whoever loves his soul more than his life, let him take up his sword and follow me!
-- Sister Repentia Maria Annikova (redemptio postumus) to the Frateris Militia before the last charge at Yeshua's Gate


Sisters Repentia seek absolution in death -- but sometimes they survive. A handful even endure battle after battle, shaking off horrific wounds. Some of their Sisters see these veteran Repentia as failures, incapable even of dying properly, but the most see their survival as a sign of grace. Veteran Repentia are usually granted greater respect and greater freedom from the lash. Some are given the privilege of joining a priest's conclave as his bodyguard, while others become the de facto leaders of their squad if the Mistress of Penitents is slain or even, as the sole survivors of their unit, find themselves at the head of a ragged band of Frateris Militia. , often leading lesser Repentia, Frateris Militia, or even a priest's personal battle conclave without the supervision of a Mistress of Penitents' lash. Often the Sisterhood would welcome a veteran Repentia back into their ranks, redeemed by countless battles, but her own shame is too deep to accept forgiveness.

Rules:


Costing:


*

Repentia Champion: 105 100 points
No, Cardinal, I am not a "proper Sister," not at all. But I am the only one you've got -- and I am taking command.
-- Sister Repentia Olga Kislev (later Canoness of the Order of the Burning Dove) before the Battle of Drevalyan Cathedral

Magnificent even in disgrace, these fallen heroes of the Adepta Sororitas walk a lonely, bloody road. They range from condemned Canonesses too useful to imprison in a Penitent Engine, to ordinary Battle Sisters who prove far more effective as Repentia than they ever were as Sororitas in good standing. While untainted Sisters will not tolerate their proximity, these Repentia Champions often lead lesser mortals into battle, from fellow Repentia to Frateris Militia to allied Imperial Guard.

Rules:


Costing:



*

Repentia Squad: New Options

A Repentia Squad may replace its Mistress of Penitents with a Repentia Veteran: +30 points
A Repentia Squad may include a Repentia Veteran in addition to its Mistress of Penitents: +45 points

A Repentia Squad may take a Deliverer Assault Shrine a Sororitas Rhino, Immolator, Frateris Technical, or Frateris Hussite as a Dedicated Transport.

*

Frateris Hussite: 100 points
A clanking monstrosity jury-rigged out of a commercial heavy hauler, the Hussite services as a mobile fortress for the Frateris firing out of it in every direction. Sometimes a squad of Sisters Repentia will shove the Frateris passengers aside and command the crew to drive straight at the enemy. They are rarely disobeyed.
BS:3 Armour:13/12/11 HP:4



Design notes:


*

Frateris Technical: 35 points
Some Frateris careen towards martyrdom crammed into civilian trucks hastily fitted with crude armour and unreliable weapons. On occasion these vehicles get commandeered by Sisters Repentia in their own rush towards redeeming death.
BS:3 Armour:10/10/10 Hull Points: 3



*

Deliverer Assault Shrine: 150 points
(originally posted here)
Ugly juggernauts converted from civilian mining vehicles, their hulls covered first with crude slabs of heavy armour and then with layer upon layer of devotional ornamentation, Deliverers lurch across the battlefield with surprising speed. Flamestorm cannon roaring, they slam into enemy positions and drop their front ramps to disgorge Sororitas shock troops, a Confessor's personal battle conclave, or hate-crazed Frateris.
BS:4 Armour: 13/13/12 Hull Points:4


*

Rolling Chapel Equipment List


[Edit: these units are very much intended to go with my homebrewed Frateris Militia and, based on feedback below, I may take away their Deliverer option and make them ride open-topped Frateris rattletraps instead....]
[Edit 2: And I did strike the Deliverer as a transport option & replace it the Frateris Technical & Hussite][
[Edit 3: Added new fluff, clarified some rules, rewrote the Champion's Act of Faith to "not dead yet," and replaced "Furious Charge" with "Shred"]
Edit 4: Streamlined the limits on when a Repentia Champion can be warlord and fixed a typo in the Hussite stats -- thanks, Skavenlord]

Here's the original discussion over in J3f's Sororitas fandex thread (which I recommend) that inspired me, & some back and forth over whether Repentia characters are even a good idea, and my response saying why I think they're actually pretty awesome:

SisterSydney wrote:Ok. Also, have you considered letting Zealot/Redemptionist squads include a Sister Repentia? I'm pondering that myself for my version -- or creating a Repentia independent character that can only join Repentia or Frateris units (since regular Sisters would shun her).

fallinq wrote:I've always thought a Repentia Special Character would be cool and unique. Obviously she could only join a few units, but she could be a beast in challenges and against MC's, with some special abilities to help the squad in CC.

Ashiraya wrote:Problem:
T3 I1

fallinq wrote:Improved FNP and Invul, multiple wounds, Eternal Warrior, and some other special rules. For every problem there is a solution, my friend.

J3f wrote:The closest thing I have in my Codex is the Sister Oblatia. She's more like the Space Wolves Lone Wolf.

I don't get everyone's obsession over the Sisters Repentia and the SoB's penchant for disciplinary action. No veteran Repentia or named Penitent Engines please.

SisterSydney wrote:When I first read Codex:Witch Hunters, the Repentia definitely squicked me out. They seemed to embody all the problematic and sexist portrayals of the Sisters, taken up to 11: hysterical fanaticism instead of tactics, blind submission to (male) authority, and above all being ludicrously over-sexualized and being punished for their sexuality at the same time, like the "bad girl" getting killed first in a slasher film. At one point I even wrote up a Sororitas special character who forcibly disbanded any Repentia unit assigned to her command: "Get some clothes on and get back in the line."

But!

5th edition Repentia and later don't charge blindly to their deaths (thanks to the redefinition of Rage), 6th edition Repentia can ride transports, and the models were never as squicky as the artwork.

And what finally changed my mind, I think, was reading (part of) James Swallow's Faith and Fire. Now, I never managed to finish the whole book, because I get bored with combat scene after combat scene (which is why my own Sororitas fanfic has almost none). But what really stuck with me was the scene where one of the protagonists becomes a Repentia, and her comrades perform the ritual with regret, compassion, and prayers for her redemption and return.

So what I've tried to do is write up heroic (if tragic) Repentia who can lead. The Repentia Veteran can in fact replace the Mistress of Penitents, taking the whole squicky S&M element out of the Repentia Squad, while the Repentia Champion can in some circumstances be your warlord.

Probably not something J3f wants in (his? her?) fandex, and that's fine, but it's this discussion that inspired me to write them up, and I'd be grateful for feedback in my own homebrew thread.

And now I'll stop derailing J3f's......

Seems decent enough. She has problems with certain enemies (Warboss with big choppa is cheap and pretty much a hard counter).

But I likes it. The only thing that may need thinking on is the pricing. Hmmm...

Thanks. When you say "she" has problems with certain match-ups, do you mean the sergeant-style Veteran, the independent character Champion, or both -- since both are T:3 I:1, albeit with FNP and more than one wound. How cheap a warboss could you build to have an overwhelmingly chance of taking these Repentia down, and what other hard counters can you think of?

Eternal Warrior is an obvious way to buff the IC Champion, at least, but that makes her even more expensive and doesn't solve the problem of a high-strength model with a lot of attacks at I:2 or better.

And, yes, pricing is hard. I rely on Ovion's guidelines for my first take but always expect to revise the unit cost as well as its rules based on folks' feedback.

Referred to both. Sorry, should have pointed that out.
And for under 100 points, you can get a warboss with 4 ws5 s7 i4 attacks (5 s8 attacks on the charge) and with t5 w3 5++ if they survive to hit back. Ap- is usually his downfall but it does not matter here.
So he hits them on 3+/4+, wounds on a 2+ with ID, cancelling out the fnp.

So the veteran is almost gauranteed to be oneshotted while rhe hero lasts to round 2 thanks to EW and then dies anyway.

This is a problem that any MEQ with a power maul will give you too.

Hey there, Sydney! Here's my fluff input, as you requested. A few points:

- Don't know about some Sisters viewing veteran Repentia with outright disdain for not dying. Sisters would view Repentia with an odd mixture of disapproval and admiration. Disapproval at them having sinned and being outcasts, but also admiration for how zealously they are trying to atone and generally serve the Emperor. Also, the objective of the Repentia isn't to die, it's to find redemption. And that can be earned in death or by the Mistress deciding that a Repentia has atoned. So not dying wouldn't really be viewed as some failiure. Indeed, it must be the Emperor showing divine favour upon the Repentia!

- This one is a little more subjective, since it's more outside if the established lore, but I very much doubt that Repentia would be holding leadership positions of any kind. A theme of the Repentia is that loss of identity, how all Sisters become the same thing under that need for Redemption and the lashes of the Mistress. Though I do understand that, rules-wise, you've put them in to have these different varieties of Repentia. Though I can get onboard with those veteran Repentia you've fluffed. Perhaps, as a small fluff detail, they could be identified by having lots of scars or wounds? Something to show that they've been through a lot of stuff without necessarily raising their status "officially" or anything.

That's all I have to say fluff-wise. I will add that you should feel free to ignore parts or all of what I've said, though. I don't like going too "fluff nazi" on good projects since it might stifle creativity. So this is just here if you want to consider the studio fluff.

All good points. I shall sharpen the fluff about the Veterans in particular -- let a 100 scars bloom!

Having the Veteran replace the Mistress is very much about my personal discomfort, as a feminist and otherwise, with half-naked women being whipped forward into battle. Is dispensing with the Mistress too much? I'll ponder.

The idea is that these higher-order Repentia get to lead what the Sisterhood considers "inferior" troops -- other Repentia, Frateris, and Battle Conclaves. (If a priest can have an Arco-flagellant in his retinue, why not a Repentia?) They can't even join a regular Sisters unit, so they're still very much second-class citizens.

The Champions are independent characters but can't be your Warlord unless you have no proper (non-Repentia) Sisters in the army. I envision them either as terrifying killers for a Canoness to hurl at the enemy, or, in dire circumstances, as Road Warrior-esque outcasts who pull together a ragtag band of Frateris Miltiia for a desperate stand against the powers of darkness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
[does numbers]

Yes, that's definitely gonna one-shot either. (As written, the Champion can only use her Eternal Warrior act of faith against shooting attacks -- might want to change that!).

Probably the Champion at least (if not both of them) needs a variant of the White Dwarf Codex's "yeah you killed me but I'm going to strike back anyway" special rule. Even so she's goin' down real fast..... I don't worry so much about a 50-point Veteran being one-shotted by a more expensive MEQ HQ with power maul, but the Champion definitely needs some more staying power.

I like it! It reminds me of the pre-3E "Proto-Repentia" in Citadel Journal.


I kind of agree with Troike in regards to how these individual Repentia would be regarded by their fellow Sisters. I would probably see them as being stuck in some sort of limbo between death or (very rare! as in: once every hundred years or so) reaffirmation. As far as the other Sisters are concerned, her fate simply has not unravelled yet. That being said, at the same time I suppose that some few Sororitas might regard them with the disdain you mentioned, but it wouldn't be a widespread thing. Perhaps something that the younger Sisters and Novices would feel, being fresh out of the Schola and not yet accustomed to how the Repentia were once connected to the Order, instead only seeing failed warriors and almost-heretics.

The Repentia Champion might stand above this mixture of indifference and disdain in that she is universally accepted as being on a greater mission, using the exceptional independence she has been granted to travel the galaxy in pursuit of some vision, and having made clear that she will not even accept reaffirmation until her mission is fulfilled. This would be inspired by the character of Anastasia.

Not really a fan of the Deliverer vehicle, though, if only because I like to keep things tidy. You already had a cool idea for those Frateris Technicals; I'd honestly just give them one of these, with the understanding that this is sort of an unofficial means of transportation rather than one provided by the Order. As far as the Canoness and the Mistress are concerned, Sisters Repentia are supposed to walk. Barefoot. Over shards of broken glass.

Yeah, no fan of the assault shrine. Seems like an excuse to give SoB a faux-landraider.

I hadn't seen those rules -- for which many thanks -- but I definitely had seen the artwork & its description, which were one of my inspirations. That kind of outcast, wandering hero was very much on my mind as I wrote this homebrew.

As for the Deliverator Assault Shrine, yes, it is absolutely a "faux Land Raider" -- its rules are even based on the Land Raider Redeemer. That the Repentia shouldn't be given such a valuable vehicle is a valid point: They can get Rhinos and even Immolators now, but maybe for an assault vehicle they should have to make do with open-topped Frateris junkers.

The larger question is whether Sisters should get a Land Raider-esque assault transport at all. I was thinking of it as a dedicated transport option for Conclaves and Celestians, the only other even mildly melee-oriented units in the army list. And it does seem fluffy that the wealthy Ecclesiarchy would have some imposing armor for the kind of urban "purification" the Sisters seem to be suited for.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Having the Veteran replace the Mistress is very much about my personal discomfort, as a feminist and otherwise, with half-naked women being whipped forward into battle. Is dispensing with the Mistress too much? I'll ponder.

Absolutely understand where you're coming from. Used to be uncomfortable with the Mistress/Repentia thing myself. Unfortunately, the Mistress/Relentia relationship can be viewed in a certain manner. Personally, I just came to view the it as acceptable by thinking of them as being an epitome of the religious nutter theme that the Sisters have going. If you just ignore all of the... less serious ways of looking at them, they really are how you would expect religious fanatics to act. A penitent and a redeemer. So I just look at it purely in terms of religious fanaticism rather than anything else, and that fits what the Sisters are perfectly.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The idea is that these higher-order Repentia get to lead what the Sisterhood considers "inferior" troops -- other Repentia, Frateris, and Battle Conclaves. (If a priest can have an Arco-flagellant in his retinue, why not a Repentia?) They can't even join a regular Sisters unit, so they're still very much second-class citizens.

Ah, okay. But I imagine that this'd be a pretty informal thing, personally. More a case of these troops rallying around the veteran Repentia in a fanatical charge than anything else. But that itself is pretty badass.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The Champions are independent characters but can't be your Warlord unless you have no proper (non-Repentia) Sisters in the army. I envision them either as terrifying killers for a Canoness to hurl at the enemy,

This I could go with. Champions simply being the bestest Repentia and being utilised as such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SisterSydney wrote:
The larger question is whether Sisters should get a Land Raider-esque assault transport at all.

No reason why not. As you said, it seems okay fluff-wise. And rules-wise, the niche is there, the Marines have one too, so why not?

 Troike wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
The idea is that these higher-order Repentia get to lead what the Sisterhood considers "inferior" troops -- other Repentia, Frateris, and Battle Conclaves. (If a priest can have an Arco-flagellant in his retinue, why not a Repentia?) They can't even join a regular Sisters unit, so they're still very much second-class citizens.

Ah, okay. But I imagine that this'd be a pretty informal thing, personally. More a case of these troops rallying around the veteran Repentia in a fanatical charge than anything else. But that itself is pretty badass.

Yes, I absolutely need to rewrite the fluff to reflect your take here. It's not "ok, I'm Fallen Sister Susie, the Confessor told me I'm to take command of your Frateris squad" but more like "Damn you, you cowardly rabble! I may be outcast from the Sisterhood for my sins but I still know my duty to the Imperium. Whoever loves his soul more than his life, let him follow me!"

Troike wrote:Absolutely understand where you're coming from. Used to be uncomfortable with the Mistress/Repentia thing myself. Unfortunately, the Mistress/Relentia relationship can be viewed in a certain manner. Personally, I just came to view the it as acceptable by thinking of them as being an epitome of the religious nutter theme that the Sisters have going. If you just ignore all of the... less serious ways of looking at them, they really are how you would expect religious fanatics to act. A penitent and a redeemer. So I just look at it purely in terms of religious fanaticism rather than anything else, and that fits what the Sisters are perfectly.

Over the years, I've actually come to embrace it. Keeping in mind that males would be handled similarly (or actually are handled similarly, if you look at certain descriptions of the Frateris Militia and various religious sub-cults) helps a lot.

The Adepta Sororitas "suffer" from a case of nunsploitation, but regardless of how this may seem in a contemporary light, it totally fits into the grim darkness of the 41st millennium. And I'd argue they would look less crazy if you take it away.

Troike wrote:Ah, okay. But I imagine that this'd be a pretty informal thing, personally. More a case of these troops rallying around the veteran Repentia in a fanatical charge than anything else.

^ how I interpreted it, actually - but that may be because I'm already accustomed to that Proto-Repentia article.

On a sidenote: its "Absolution" rule was totally kick-ass. Imagine a squad of Space Marines falling back, but a lone Repentia stays behind and actually manages to win the melee. She catches up with the bewildered Astartes, and the Space Marines instantly turn Faithful and are now able to use Acts of Faith as if they'd just converted to the Imperial Creed after having witnessed the Sister. Badass.

Ok, that is fething awesome. I almost included a rule for the Repentia Veteran standing firm while the rest of her (non-Repentia) squad broke and ran. But in the end I decided the rule would be too complex and just went with the regular Fearless, which conveys to the whole unit. That kind of crazy, unpredictable detail is something we've lost as the game evolves -- rolling for Chaos Boons is pretty much the one remnant I can think of -- and while it makes play much more streamlined, sometimes I still miss it....

I always preferred to look at Repentia as a sort of 40k SoB cross between Schaeffer's Last Chancers and Dwarf Slayers. Not a big fan of the sexualized aspect, which I think comes mainly from the fact that they wear almost nothing but purity seals and the Mistress uses whips. SisterSydney, do you think you'd find the Mistress more tolerable of she didn't use whips and was more of a Colonel Schaeffer style overseer?

As far as the Repentia characters, yes, I think they would fall more into the "unusually strong fighter who becomes somewhat legendary" category than holding any kind of official rank or position in the Sororitas. Also, they both seem a bit overcosted for what they do. I know that you worked out the gear piece by piece, but that method doesn't always give a comparable points value. I find it more useful to go by a "power level" system. What performs comparably to this in the game, and how much does that cost? As people have mentioned, an Ork Warboss is better, for less points. They're also not that versatile, so they need to really be good at what they specialize in to make up for it (think melee only Chaos Daemons). I would knock the price down a little. Also, have you thought about giving them Shred? This would make them a bit more potent, and set them apart a little more from their regular Repentia little sisters.

As far as the vehicle, I'm not a big fan. Besides the already mentioned fact that it's way to high end to give to Repentia (some kind of assault Rhino would suit them better), Land Raiders always seemed to be more of a purely Space Marine thing to me. Like someone else mentioned on some thread or another, Sororitas seem like they should be more of an urban warfare army, with most of their enemies being Chaos cultists and human rebels. A Land Raider seems ill suited for that job.

Interesting take on Repentia. Of the two Squick Factors you mentioned, he whips don't bother as much as near nudity -- which is only the artwork: the models themselves aren't actually that sexualized.

Shred is a lovely idea for these characters, but I was trying to keep costs down -- which gets us to the limits of Ovion's costing system (which he himself acknowledges). I do like to have some kind of system other than just winging it, though. And part of the problem is that however many SRs you give them at whatever cost, even Eternal Warrior, they're still T:3.

I think the White Dwarf version of "Spirit of the Martyr" -- i.e. they don't die until they have a chance to strike back -- is lookin' pretty mandatory right now.

[EDIT: just taking the Simulacrum-equivalent off the Veteran would drop her point cost down by almost a third from 45 to 35. It's a flavorful SR that makes the squad more survivable but maybe it's stacking too much on one killable model..... although arguably, since it's wargear that boosts the squad, it shouldn't really "count" when comparing here to equivalent close-combat characters].

And yeah, I'll strike the Deliverer as a dedicated transport option. I still want to keep it in the army, though, because it actually does strike me as appropriate for urban warfare....plus you can load it up with all sorts of religious iconography, which is fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stop! Mathhammer time!

First, a caveat: Repentia really aren't duellists: Their Eviscerators are best for carving up tanks. So they should probably not hold their own against an equal-points character who is optimized to kill people.

But as written these characters are waaaaay short of holding their own.

First, there’s the problem that any serious melee HQ will Instant Death them:


So we have to solve the Instant Death problem somehow: We need an Act of Faith giving Eternal Warrior -- or a die roll to avoid Instant Death like Ovion's Amaranthine special rule -- or at least "you killed me but I'm still hitting back" as in the White Dwarf Codex.

So let’s assume she avoids Instant Death:


So even with immunity to Instant Death, the Champion needs a way to inflict more pain. Shred’s looking attractive, but that won’t get past the invulnerable saves any melee-oriented HQ is going to have.

Suggestions?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: Just realized Furious Charge on a model with a Strength x 2 weapon is pretty pointless: Because the +1 always gives you an odd number, it never improves your chances of inflicting Instant Death. For an S:3 model, going from S:6 to S:7 only improves your chance to wound against a model with Toughness 5 or greater, which means Monstrous Creatures and Ork Warbosses... and only if you get to charge them.

I'm thinking Shred or even +1 Weapons Skill is a better use of 10 points.

SisterSydney wrote:Interesting take on Repentia. Of the two Squick Factors you mentioned, he whips don't bother as much as near nudity -- which is only the artwork: the models themselves aren't actually that sexualized.

Not sure I'd call this sexualised rather than crazy/creepy.

I think this perception is a result of many of us having become "sensitive" to the issue of sexism, which by itself is a good and necessary thing, given the current cultural climate. However, in this case some of us may be "over-thinking" it, seeing a sexualised image simply because of female nudity. Undoubtedly, the appearance of Repentia can (depending on the individual execution) be perceived as "sexy", but that doesn't change that this is not its in-universe purpose, and I believe this context is what counts. For just as I am personally opposed to blatant sexualisation, I am also opposed to avoiding it (or visuals that may be regarded/mistaken as such) where it actually fits (example: old Daemonettes > new Daemonettes).

I guess what I wanted to say is ... these minis would be just as naked if they were men, so I'm not buying the "sexualised" label here. In fact, if we're looking at Arco-Flagellants, they're kind of proof for that.
Pushing too strongly towards avoiding naked flesh runs the risk of being just as bad - for then you'd keep the female gender as a segregated class of human that needs special rules for protection, rather than creating equality.

Let's just accept that the Adepta Sororitas are an organisation where whippings and naked vigils are part of the lifestyle - this may cater to certain fetishes, but it would do so no more than real life, as all these things have happened and are still happening in religious institutions. For the Imperium of Man, this is just another Tuesday, and maintaining it adds to the overall oppressive, dystopian atmosphere of the entire setting. In a way, 40k is a mirror of humanity, but one that takes all the bad things and scales them up to 11 by declaring them part of daily life rather than something that people strive to prevent.
And for what it's worth, the Black Templars are just as crazy, yet allegations of sexualised Space Marines are something you hear rarely. Again a matter of focus, as everyone is far too concerned with their machismo. The outcry that went through the community at the Blood Angels Honour Guard and their "nipple armour" only goes to show that the fandom as a whole still needs to "grow up" and stop being kids who point at things and yell "gaaay".

Damn, this topic is almost worth its own thread. But given previous experiences, I'm half-afraid that creating it would attract the wrong kind of attention.

SisterSydney wrote:I still want to keep it in the army, though, because it actually does strike me as appropriate for urban warfare....

Doesn't the Repressor already fill that role, though?
Granted, it's Forge World, but its existence seems to be somewhat accepted by most SoB players by now.

fallinq wrote:Like someone else mentioned on some thread or another, Sororitas seem like they should be more of an urban warfare army, with most of their enemies being Chaos cultists and human rebels. A Land Raider seems ill suited for that job.

Hmm, there are those special detachments for taking down rogue Space Marine Chapters ... but then again, at least in the CJ article, those were said to use drop pods and flyers, and their tactics seemed to depend heavily on rapid insertion to have a fighting chance. I suppose any sort of ground vehicle would be inappropriate there.

 Lynata wrote:

SisterSydney wrote:Interesting take on Repentia. Of the two Squick Factors you mentioned, he whips don't bother as much as near nudity -- which is only the artwork: the models themselves aren't actually that sexualized.

And for what it's worth, the Black Templars are just as crazy, yet allegations of sexualised Space Marines are something you hear rarely. Again a matter of focus, as everyone is far too concerned with their machismo. The outcry that went through the community at the Blood Angels Honour Guard and their "nipple armour" only goes to show that the fandom as a whole still needs to "grow up" and stop being kids who point at things and yell "gaaay".

This might be weird to say but I actually liked the nipple armor to an extent before people ruined it for me. Guess I sort of caved into peer pressure. I always thought the sanguinary guard looked cool and when blood angels released I wanted some. They looked like a statue that came alive of some sun god or something. It had more of a mythology type feel for me and that just made things better esp. considering things like space marines being post-human and other stuff like the horus heresy.

Yeah, I instantly felt reminded of ancient Roman armour. Ironically enough, "back then" this was probably considered manly.
Though the statue comparison is really nice, too! Especially given the face masks.

Yeah I got more of the vibe of beauty and perfection rather than 'man nips' (which seems to fit with the chapter really well). Sadly I can't un-see it now but it's unfortunate people had to ruin a model.

I don't totally mind the new slaaneshi models but that's just me. Then again I don't really remember the old ones too well if I even saw them. I guess people would prefer them to be female on top and male on the bottom rather than split down for the right and left side. At least the current one makes sense with slaanesh not having a sex or being a hermaphrodite. That said they could've made him really, really feminine and gender neutral yet attractive. Of course then all the yaoi girls would have a reason to enter the hobby and all the parents would be annoyed their kids are exposed to a fairly interesting sexual choice so soon and you get the idea. Slaanesh is probably hardest to portray with a family friendly atmosphere. Perhaps just make the face eerily beautiful and scary and give the covered boobs a possibility of being man boobs or women boobs. I think I'd be horrified.

On the topic of slaanesh and noise marines I find it hilarious in a way.

*Noise marine plays music*

Old imperial general: "Turn of that loud hip-hop music you d*mn kids! Errrr....." *waves fist*

I can also imagine the music is the crappy dub-step music.

I like the Sanguine Guard and the new Daemonettes. The man nips are 1) not that noticeable unless you choose to fixate on them (and what does that say about you, hmm?) and 2) historically accurate for many ancient armies. If they ever go full Batman and Robin and give them sculpted buttocks, THEN I'll have a problem. As for the Daemonettes, I have yet to find any actual criticism of the new models besides: "They took away my boobies! Waaah!" Really? Are you 12? There are places to look at porn other than 40k if you want to. It was a practical decision to avoid angry parents. The new models look good.

Back on topic, I like the "one last gasp" rule a la White Dwarf. It seems in character and makes the character more deadly while being cheaper than some of the other options.

This thread went interesting places while I slept..... but yeah, a "one last gasp" rule seems pretty good, since it deals with both Instant Death and sheer accumulation of wounds. And then you die, but hey, that's not just Repentia-hood for you, that's pretty much the Sisterhood... and most 40K in general.

As for the Repressor, it's an excellent armored personnel carrier, but it's not an assault vehicle. If the Marines get half-a-dozen different variants of the Land Raider, including as a Dedicated Transport for Templar Crusader Squads, I think the Sisters can get one scaled-down Land Raider and have it be a Dedicated Transport for Celestian Squads, who are as close as the Sororitas get to a close-combat elite.


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PS: Counter-attack might also be damned useful, especially since it conveys to the entire squad. A unit of Repentia (or a Frateris) still wouldn't get their Rage bonus, but they wouldn't be quite as dependent on getting the charge.

SisterSydney wrote:And then you die, but hey, that's not just Repentia-hood for you, that's pretty much the Sisterhood... and most 40K in general.

One of the many reasons why I miss Spirit of the Martyr being available to all Sisters in general rather than this dreadful new unit-specific approach... I've always interpreted its results as a "critically wounded, but pushing on anyways" - followed by collapsing on the battlefield once the dust settles.

I also attempted to replicate this in my DW RPG supplement.

fallinq wrote:As for the Daemonettes, I have yet to find any actual criticism of the new models besides: "They took away my boobies! Waaah!" Really? Are you 12? There are places to look at porn other than 40k if you want to. It was a practical decision to avoid angry parents.

For the record, I oppose this change specifically because I'm not "12", and thus don't need angry parents dictating how my 40k is allowed to look. I probably wouldn't have bothered if they had always looked that way, but to change them just to make 40k more "vanilla"? Say what?

It's a matter of opinion, for sure, but I have always been against diluting existing franchises and settings just for the sake of making them "kids-friendly" or to appeal to the lowest common denominator, because they universally suffer in integrity. What's next, are we going to lose the Repentia? Or the Ecclesiarchy as a whole, because OMG religion, we can't have something mocking the church in this game! What about the violence, is the violence okay?

Imho we should just keep angry parents out of this game altogether.

At least here in the United States, parents don't mind graphic violence, just bosoms....


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Also, Repentia became a lot more awesome in my mind once I started thinking of Today by the Smashing Pumpkins as their theme song:

Especially this part:

Today is the greatest
Day I've never known
Can't wait for tomorrow
I might not have that long
I'll tear my heart out
Before I get out

Pink ribbon scars
That never forget
I tried so hard
To cleanse these regrets
My angel wings
Were bruised and restrained....

 SisterSydney wrote:
At least here in the United States, parents don't mind graphic violence, just bosoms....

Lol'd.

 Lynata wrote:

fallinq wrote:As for the Daemonettes, I have yet to find any actual criticism of the new models besides: "They took away my boobies! Waaah!" Really? Are you 12? There are places to look at porn other than 40k if you want to. It was a practical decision to avoid angry parents.

For the record, I oppose this change specifically because I'm not "12", and thus don't need angry parents dictating how my 40k is allowed to look. I probably wouldn't have bothered if they had always looked that way, but to change them just to make 40k more "vanilla"? Say what?

It's a matter of opinion, for sure, but I have always been against diluting existing franchises and settings just for the sake of making them "kids-friendly" or to appeal to the lowest common denominator, because they universally suffer in integrity. What's next, are we going to lose the Repentia? Or the Ecclesiarchy as a whole, because OMG religion, we can't have something mocking the church in this game! What about the violence, is the violence okay?

Imho we should just keep angry parents out of this game altogether.

To be fair I hear from old warhammer fantasy playing vets that beastmen had their origins in a crap ton of nobles having bestiality at a party/banquet somewhere and the first beastmen being born from it. They ditched it when the company became more family friendly. So are you for or against that? I mean if you want kids in the hobby it's a brand new target market but at the same time I could see why they did it. You have to admit that's one balls to the walls dark origin story.

 SisterSydney wrote:
At least here in the United States, parents don't mind graphic violence, just bosoms....

I'm usually on the pro-boob side. Everybody should have boobs! Well maybe not the guys....ewwww. Speaking of which for people that think open boobs equals awesome it depends. I mean are we talking man boobs, fat boobs, grandma boobs, etc. There are a lot of nasty boobs out there esp. if they hang a foot and a half ;P.

Ok, seriously, we all agree bosoms are good -- rule Mammalia! -- but can we get back somewhere near the topic?


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And I've updated the first post with new fluff, revised rules, & Smashing Pumpkins quotes, because feth yeah.

Looked over it a bit and here's what I think:

Repentia Champion:

Outcast special rule is… kind of weird due to being unable to be Warlord if there are any units with act of faith except repentia sisters.


Frateris Hussite:

It has two Ballistic Skills in it’s statline.

The fact it can carry up to 10 weapons is interesting but can potentially make it either a ridiculously powerful glass cannon or a fire magnet that won’t get the chance to fire anything (If I saw a vehicle with 10 grenade launchers, I’d aim every weapon at it.) . Don’t get me wrong, it makes for a good strategic unit but just something to consider.

I didn't read the entire thread so I may be missing something but hope it helps!

Whoops! Good catch on the Hussite statline, it's supposed to have Ballistic Skill 4 and 4 Hull Points, not two BS scores.

And yes, the potential for 10 grenade launchers -- or 10 heavy flamers -- is scary. But they're all short-ranged, so most armies have something that can shoot them before they get in close. Also, any weapon that's not a heavy stubber has Gets Hot!, which means a 10-grenade launcher Hussite will glance itself to death in five turns of continuous firing. (1 shot in six is a 1, then half of those cost a HP, so 1 shot in 12 takes a HP, so your 4 HP are gone in 48 shots and you shoot ten times a turn....). So a well-armed Hussite is actively helping the enemy kill it.

As for the Repentia Champion, yes, the Warlord restriction is a bit wonky.... I was trying to make her only available for a ragged army of Frateris and Repentia, on the grounds that regular Sisters wouldn't accept her leadership, but now I realize the rule as written still lets her be Warlord over Exorcist tanks and the like, and trying to rewrite around all possible cases just gets too convoluted.

So, scrap it: I'll just put a commissar-style rule that a Repentis Champion can't be your warlord unless you have no other kind of HQ, which should represent the "welp, we're officially desperate now" nature of a such an army.

 SisterSydney wrote:
As for the Repentia Champion, yes, the Warlord restriction is a bit wonky.... I was trying to make her only available for a ragged army of Frateris and Repentia, on the grounds that regular Sisters wouldn't accept her leadership, but now I realize the rule as written still lets her be Warlord over Exorcist tanks and the like, and trying to rewrite around all possible cases just gets too convoluted.

Can't you jsut phrase it as something like "the Repentia Champion can only be your warlord if the rest of your primary detatchment is composed of these units..."

It is a nice, characterful rule. Be fun to have it in, IMO.