ShatteredBlade wrote:Take this with some nice, delicious salt but the games stores around my area have been told the Chaos Space Marine codex is no longer available.
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"Those aren't product codes, they're image serials which are later used to print the boxes / blisters.
This gives the model names credibility, but not necessarily the dates.
GW Packaging is produced (graphically, not physically printed) for the most part, well in advance, to make sure that there's always room "last minute" if there are changes to codexes and a new model package is needed.
Bear in mind, that some instances of "produced" mean nothing more than an original photo of a model being photoshoped onto a new background and formatted for one of several standard dimensions. I'm not suggesting custom oil paintings done or anything.
So to summarize:
All of those items are in the pipeline to get Imagery of some kind produced and formatted for the appropriate box/blister it will appear in. Like the Eldar from 2010 though (which still haven't seen the light of day), that in no way means much when it comes to release dates, beyond the vague promise of "sometime in the future."
Talks for the summer campaign are beginning though, so I'll keep you in the loop for those as it unfolds -- and yes, some of the models from that list would make a lot of sense with what's in the works so far."
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So, it seems that the large list was real?
Here's how this pertains to Chaos:
People were saying that September will see the full release of C:CSM's model range, right? Well Plastic Thousand Sons were on the giant list of models.
Brometheus wrote:
People were saying that September will see the full release of C:CSM's model range, right? Well Plastic Thousand Sons were on the giant list of models.
I really hope we see 'em.
That list is supposed to start in June next year, which unfortunately puts Thousand Sons quite some ways away.
ShatteredBlade wrote:Take this with some nice, delicious salt but the games stores around my area have been told the Chaos Space Marine codex is no longer available.
News like that warms me to the very core.
I'll still only believe that the codex is going to be released when we have something a little more solid. I just thought it strange that the store owner and his assistant would announce that to everyone. It isn't a GW store, just FLGS. I'm sure that GW will pull the current codex from the site when the white dwarf announces for full CINEMATIC effect.
ShatteredBlade wrote:Take this with some nice, delicious salt but the games stores around my area have been told the Chaos Space Marine codex is no longer available.
News like that warms me to the very core.
Best conversation I've ever had has been when I get rumors like this, last one was 6th edition.
Walk into my local GW store. Ask them, "I hear 6th edition is coming out soon." They say, "I can't comment on that." Me, "Can I buy a 5th edition rule book then?" Them, "We don't have it in stock." They just kinda grin while saying that last bit. I did this with the DE codex too. It's just funny cuz they really don't want to answer that last one.
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ShatteredBlade wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
ShatteredBlade wrote:Take this with some nice, delicious salt but the games stores around my area have been told the Chaos Space Marine codex is no longer available.
News like that warms me to the very core.
I'll still only believe that the codex is going to be released when we have something a little more solid. I just thought it strange that the store owner and his assistant would announce that to everyone. It isn't a GW store, just FLGS. I'm sure that GW will pull the current codex from the site when the white dwarf announces for full CINEMATIC effect.
I don't know about that. WD didn't have the 6th edition rule book announcement in it but my local GW had none in stock for a couple months before release.
I too was able to order the chaos codex from the GW site, not sure if it just hasn't come down yet or if I had to complete the transaction to see if it really wasn't available or not still.
Poisoned weapons for the plague marines at a 1pt cost increase sounds totally worthwhile.
All of the demon engines really be dependent on the stat line. I can see the shooty one being really popular. The one that is immune to terrain??? so, it can walk through impassable terrain? Hellbrute striking at I1. How many attacks does it get. of this i am curious. Once again, it all depends on the stat line.
Godhammer Landraider! What is with the capacity of only 10. WTH. Dont the loyalist ones hold 12. Is it because the spikey bits take up so much more space. Arrrgh.
sennacherib wrote:Poisoned weapons for the plague marines at a 1pt cost increase sounds totally worthwhile.
Agree!
All of the demon engines really be dependent on the stat line. I can see the shooty one being really popular. The one that is immune to terrain??? so, it can walk through impassable terrain? Hellbrute striking at I1. How many attacks does it get. of this i am curious. Once again, it all depends on the stat line.
MC's and Walkers aren't effected by Unweildly
Godhammer Landraider! What is with the capacity of only 10. WTH. Dont the loyalist ones hold 12. Is it because the spikey bits take up so much more space. Arrrgh.
Because apparently it was only 12 so that a character or 2 could take a ride as well, but, well, the guys higher up in the GW command chain weren't happy.
All rumors, though
A few pages back someone mistakenly posted that walkers with power fists strike at I1. People seem to be clinging to that as if it were true.
Well it was a comment made by the actual rumor monger... but I don't think the rumor monger actually knows the edition rules and was just adding his own mistaken comment. You can find it on the first page.
Fair enough, but then the OP obviously needs to make that correction in the first post or else people will be justified in assuming its still the case.
Not sure if this has been spotted before, but does the "Dragon's breath flamer" on page 56 of the BRB hint at the chaos dragon flier we've been hearing about? Not heard of that weapon before...
At last! Those pics, and the ones on Warseer, look fantastic! The detail is stunning, and they're painted fantastically... If those are the box set models, then I'm definitely investing! The cultist with the mask looks great too, and the big guy with the Lightning Claws? Just awesome! Took me a while to figure out where his head began and ended though
Brometheus wrote:lol. For months drbored, you have been fairly reserved. Now you explode on both websites.
I approve (and share) of this enthusiasm
Heck yeah man! But let's be fair... For months we've had no actual Chaos goodness fully confirmed with pictures of the actual models. FINALLY we get them, FINALLY the leaks before the actual release come forward. It's possible that this is just the starter set, that the Codex may not be seen for a while longer, but we'll see very soon with the rest of the leaks from the White Dwarf.
You see, at heart, I love Chaos because of their fluff and their look, and less for their rules, so when all that is leaked are rules, I tend to be pretty unimpressed or pessimistic. When it comes to seeing the actual models... Well, let's just say I have a lot more laundry to do now.
Love them all, DA and chaos, look to be fantastic quality. Although i was hoping the cultists would be clad in tattered robes, not sure if the bodysuit works for me.
edit: Great to finally have some plastic autoguns though.
Hey at least GW's taken this as an opportunity to create some characterful models. I mean they may not be the easiest for a beginner to paint, but it does give veteran gamers more of a reason to buy the box (ie the old one was full of single piece models that differed little from the stuff in the normal boxes, these do). ^^
Yeah, GW is really pushing us up. last codex they barely acknowledged our existance, in the new rule book and now this. They seem to becoming the Chaotic poster boys. This I do not mind.
I always want to do word bearers but I cant get away from my love of khorne to a point were everything must have red and bronze or a close combat weapon. Its the preacher side of the WB's that stops me from doing them despite looking forward to the dark apostle model. :(
Hopefully more picture will hit us soon although I dont mind not seeing them since the wait would be even more painful.
OH SNAP, those new chosen look awesome. I wasn't planning on having any of them in my army, but with them looking that cool... I might have to. Cultists look lame though.
I know this is for CSM, but figure I should post the starter set models to clarify things like cultists, Hellbrute, and a possible direction for new CSM models:
The Cultists look so awesome!
Also, Looking at this, that Hellbrute is point heavy as hell. The point value of the Cultists, Chosen, and Lord aren't near enough to match a Librarian, Chaplain, Chapter master, Spacemarines, Terminators, and Bikes.
kenzosan wrote:The Cultists look so awesome!
Also, Looking at this, that Hellbrute is point heavy as hell. The point value of the Cultists, Chosen, and Lord aren't near enough to match a Librarian, Chaplain, Chapter master, Spacemarines, Terminators, and Bikes.
the non imperials are always outclassed in these starter sets.
Word Bearers are not a bad choice for the Chaos poster legion. They were the first to fall after all. Maybe Erebus would make a decent warmaster if Abbadon fell ...
Brother SRM wrote:I know this is for CSM, but figure I should post the starter set models to clarify things like cultists, Hellbrute, and a possible direction for new CSM models:
Any chance of getting those images hosted somewhere else for the work-blocked?
Thanks.
kenzosan wrote:The Cultists look so awesome!
Also, Looking at this, that Hellbrute is point heavy as hell. The point value of the Cultists, Chosen, and Lord aren't near enough to match a Librarian, Chaplain, Chapter master, Spacemarines, Terminators, and Bikes.
the non imperials are always outclassed in these starter sets.
No, I meant that as an observation of the Hellbrute. I mean damn, his point value makes up for so much. Cultists are stat line Guardsman and Chosen are like Vets. That's a lot of points to make up for and clearly he does it.
I know what you mean though. The way the last box was the Orks were super poorly set up. But jeez, an MC. Yea, it doesn't make up for the melee built Cultists versus a squad of Termies for a troop choice, but I'm sure that Hellbrute can walk through most of that box with not much trouble.
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Medium of Death wrote:I'LL TAKE SEVENTEEN!
Does anybody know whether there are going to be plastic kits of this stuff, or whether what we see here is 'exclusive' to the box set?
I'm sure they will when they launch the Chaos dex. But that's a couple weeks after this is released.
The chaos models look absolutely stunning with the exception of the cultists. Not a fan at all, but if they get a real multi-part plastic kit they're going to have a billion pieces in that set.
The Dark Angels look so subpar in comparison lol. Chaplain and Librarian are amazing though. And the terminators don't look dreadful I suppose.
Sad. But let's look at what we know... A tiny finecrap run is going for advance order on the 8th, which means release on the 15th. That means a whole half a month for the rest of September. Yea, it's possible we're all screwed and Chaos Marines don't come out till October, but I'm remaining optimistic. There's no way they'll have the starter set alone with some finecrap for the whole month.
Who knows. The codex could come out. Hell, all the advertising for 6th edition and the Starter have all shown off the Dark Angels. Unless you've been up on rumors and only gone by GW you might as well expect a DA codex and not a starter or Chaos anytime soon.
Now things got harder again... I had almost decided to start up my deathguard again, and now this kicks in... Back to the drawing board again, as ALL legions got viable for me again, including a half of the DA legion in the form of Fallen...
*shivers* this is going to get expensive... Gah! Top 4 for me are still Deathguard (whoo zombie cultists), World eaters(can't help but love their fluff, so tragic!), Word bearers(dark apostles are back, cultists are cheap and I can bring REAL daemons again) and iron warriors(chaos techmarines are back, there's new CC oblits, 3 new daemon engines, a siege type landraider and I can ally with IG... Yes please)... Closely followed by nightlords, depending on if I can figure out how to play on their terror tactics on the tabletop.
Gah! I'll just have to wait and see what other new models are coming, and how the 'dex treats nightlords.
I KNEW IT. Didn't I say a while ago that Dark Angels would probably come before CSM just because they're loyalists and GW wouldn't put out two books in a row that weren't Marines? And people were like "Nuh-uh, everything we've been told so far says Chaos are first! You're just dumb!"
Sidstyler wrote:I KNEW IT. Didn't I say a while ago that Dark Angels would probably come before CSM just because they're loyalists and GW wouldn't put out two books in a row that weren't Marines? And people were like "Nuh-uh, everything we've been told so far says Chaos are first! You're just dumb!"
iirc Hastings schedule is still CSM, WoC and then DA.
Sidstyler wrote:I KNEW IT. Didn't I say a while ago that Dark Angels would probably come before CSM just because they're loyalists and GW wouldn't put out two books in a row that weren't Marines? And people were like "Nuh-uh, everything we've been told so far says Chaos are first! You're just dumb!"
iirc Hastings schedule is still CSM, WoC and then DA.
To be fair, as long as CSM stuff is out by December, GW will still be in my good graces. I need my 40K fix come Christmas.
Remember guys, the DA picture could just be highlighting a game, mini campaign or one of their now rather bland How to Paint guides for the DA stuff in the box and have nothing to do with the actual release!
DarkStarSabre wrote:Remember guys, the DA picture could just be highlighting a game, mini campaign or one of their now rather bland How to Paint guides for the DA stuff in the box and have nothing to do with the actual release!
True ... it might just be an ad for Dark Vengeance. Maybe.
Sidstyler wrote:I KNEW IT. Didn't I say a while ago that Dark Angels would probably come before CSM just because they're loyalists and GW wouldn't put out two books in a row that weren't Marines? And people were like "Nuh-uh, everything we've been told so far says Chaos are first! You're just dumb!"
Not necessarily. I recall a ton of Ultramarine advertising for the 5th starter. I'm just grumpy they are doing this. It's not fair but I deal. I agree with you that I think the first 6th codex will be a Marine codex. But to have so many rumors about Chaos but NOTHING about DA's. Hell, I know more about a new Tau dex than a new DA dex.
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Noisy_Marine wrote:
DarkStarSabre wrote:Remember guys, the DA picture could just be highlighting a game, mini campaign or one of their now rather bland How to Paint guides for the DA stuff in the box and have nothing to do with the actual release!
True ... it might just be an ad for Dark Vengeance. Maybe.
GW is built on the crushed hopes and dreams of the Chaos legions.
I am also guessing next month is just the continuation of the starter set. This month will be about assembling, painting, how they made them etc. Then next month will be a battle report i.e 'the battle rages on.'
Also apart from last month, GW have not been revealing next month's topic so openly. The only clear month based on rumours we knew was the starter set because there was a csm and a DA on the last page.
The question of this new model from the starter set is finally answered. Its a walker with options for a butcher-cannon or twin reaper auto cannons..... wow. Thats a lot of firepower. Lets take a closer look!
The source for this sent in a correction on the stats. Basically oops sorry it is 12/12/10. I have corrected it below.
via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
There's a rumor floating around that the hellbrute strikes at initiative 1.
I just want to clarify that while it is listed as having a Power Fist and not a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, because it is a Walker it does not suffer from the Unwieldy special rule, that's why it's simplified in the codex entry.
120 points
It's 12/12/10
Str 6, ws 4, bs4, i4
Multi-Melta / Power Fist (with inbuilt combi-bolter)
can swap the Multi-Melta for a butcher-cannon, or twin reaper auto cannons (which is pretty cool, since that's an entire riflemen in one arm, but with less range), twin-linked lascannon or a twin-linked heavy flamer.
can swap combi-bolter for a meltagun or heavy flamer
Has rampage
Mark of Khorne: Rage USR Mark of Nurgle: 5+ restore a hull point OR repair immobilized / weapon destroyed at the start of a turn. Does not let it get back up after having been killed unlike Unholy Vigor.
Mark of Slaanesh: Sonic scream, gives it offensive/defensive grenades
Mark of Tzeench: flame weapons (if it has any) are +1 strength and -1 AP (heavy flamers are AP3... whaaaat)
Very interesting, especially the Marks. They are similar to the Decimator Marks but not quite. Could the that the Decimator was based on a playtest version of the new Codex?
Interesting.. it's strange in some respects. I like the looks of the chaos models but in a way they appear too chaosy. I always enjoyed this slightly spikier, worn down version of loyalts opposed to mutated armour-things that were there own direction entirely (a bastardised WHF look-alike).
Oh well! Still better than nothing! I'm pleased. XD
From that look.. I get the sinking feeling DA will be next and all these rumours about a CSM dex coming have been assumed to be chaos (ie the source just says a dex will be released 1/9/12 and they assumed via the rumours that it had to be chaos, not handing any possibility to DA).
However that doesn't mean GW won't pull a back to back release for CMS/DA, or even simultaneous. It retracts from their individual releases but its a big, well timed burst of 40k, giving them two months to give fantasy a little bend over before they go Hobbit mad over Christmas and NY (and completely forget 40k and fantasy exist). Unlikely, but we'll see.. it does seem strange so many CSM rumours are hanging about only for them to do DA.. but then maybe that's part of the strategy too.. misdirection! (GW that smart?)
Also, I hasten to point out that you're assuming the Hellbrute is beast to make up for the points... do we actually have a codex to confirm the Chaos Lord and Chosen are not so beast? It always seemed apparent to me that a Chaos Lord should be.. you know... a monster even before daemon prince and Chosen should also be pretty hefty compared to the average marine, a fair few stat points heftier.
kenzosan wrote:GW is built on the crushed hopes and dreams of the Chaos legions.
This is done purposefully to aid the roleplaying aspects of the hobby. The goal is to help the Chaos player personally identify with the hatred and bitterness of his chosen army. This is why the new Chaos codex will be identical to the new Dark Angels codex but with all the special rules replaced by random tables and across the board -1 Ld. Let's forge a narrative!
This is hilarious. We had Hastings name the starter set contents down to the model count and listing of every single option in the set 7 MONTHS AGO, yet his word that the Chaos codex is next is completely invalidated because of single Dark Angels image in a White Dwarf. Chaos is next, I doubt we'll see Dark Angels until 2013.
kenzosan wrote:GW is built on the crushed hopes and dreams of the Chaos legions.
This is done purposefully to aid the roleplaying aspects of the hobby. The goal is to help the Chaos player personally identify with the hatred and bitterness of his chosen army. This is why the new Chaos codex will be identical to the new Dark Angels codex but with all the special rules replaced by random tables and across the board -1 Ld. Let's forge a narrative!
Quit making me exalt your posts!
EDIT:
I really don't see how a chaos lord is supposed to make up for a company master, libby, and chaplain. Unless that lord is one badass mofo.
kenzosan wrote:GW is built on the crushed hopes and dreams of the Chaos legions.
This is done purposefully to aid the roleplaying aspects of the hobby. The goal is to help the Chaos player personally identify with the hatred and bitterness of his chosen army. This is why the new Chaos codex will be identical to the new Dark Angels codex but with all the special rules replaced by random tables and across the board -1 Ld. Let's forge a narrative!
Quit making me exalt your posts!
EDIT:
I really don't see how a chaos lord is supposed to make up for a company master, libby, and chaplain. Unless that lord is one badass mofo.
Like I said, that hellbrute has to be a bad ass to make up for all the crappy units the Chaos get.
I'm not saying Chosen or Cultist are bad, but melee oriented Guardsman versus Spacemarines are suicide. Termies as a troop choice versus Cultists. Chosen and Helbrute versus bikes, Lib, and Chaplain as a special slot to represent the army. Points wise it adds up somewhere, but tactically, without knowing exactly how the Hellbrute works, it doesnt.
Like I said, that hellbrute has to be a bad ass to make up for all the crappy units the Chaos get.
I'm not saying Chosen or Cultist are bad, but melee oriented Guardsman versus Spacemarines are suicide. Termies as a troop choice versus Cultists. Chosen and Helbrute versus bikes, Lib, and Chaplain as a special slot to represent the army. Points wise it adds up somewhere, but tactically, without knowing exactly how the Hellbrute works, it doesnt.
The sky is falling! I really wish that people would withhold their pronouncements of doom until they have actually read the codex. Wishful thinking I know.
Like I said, that hellbrute has to be a bad ass to make up for all the crappy units the Chaos get.
I'm not saying Chosen or Cultist are bad, but melee oriented Guardsman versus Spacemarines are suicide. Termies as a troop choice versus Cultists. Chosen and Helbrute versus bikes, Lib, and Chaplain as a special slot to represent the army. Points wise it adds up somewhere, but tactically, without knowing exactly how the Hellbrute works, it doesnt.
The sky is falling! I really wish that people would withhold their pronouncements of doom until they have actually read the codex. Wishful thinking I know.
Given GW history, do you really expect melee Cultists to be worth anything especially against Marines? Do you expect Cultists to do any better against Termies? The last bit is purely speculation but it's founded on facts. We know what a Librarian and Chaplain can do as well as bikes, but we have no idea what a Hellbrute is capable of. Overall, from a tactical stand point, the Chaos are at a disadvantage as long as we don't know the Hellbrutes stats and special rules.
I have enough facts to know how the game works. Cultists will have 3 strength and toughness, and given the models armor save of 4 at best. Meaning to wound marines they need a 5+ and marines have a 3+ armor save and marines will need a 3+ to wound and cultists will have at best a 4+, in cc. So you tell me who has the advantage. It's basic math.
Balanced or not it looks like it will give new players a good sense of various troop and weapon types. I think that's more important than strict balance in a starter set.
kenzosan wrote:GW is built on the crushed hopes and dreams of the Chaos legions.
This is done purposefully to aid the roleplaying aspects of the hobby. The goal is to help the Chaos player personally identify with the hatred and bitterness of his chosen army. This is why the new Chaos codex will be identical to the new Dark Angels codex but with all the special rules replaced by random tables and across the board -1 Ld. Let's forge a narrative!
I really don't see how a chaos lord is supposed to make up for a company master, libby, and chaplain. Unless that lord is one badass mofo.
Like I said, that hellbrute has to be a bad ass to make up for all the crappy units the Chaos get.
I'm not saying Chosen or Cultist are bad, but melee oriented Guardsman versus Spacemarines are suicide. Termies as a troop choice versus Cultists. Chosen and Helbrute versus bikes, Lib, and Chaplain as a special slot to represent the army. Points wise it adds up somewhere, but tactically, without knowing exactly how the Hellbrute works, it doesnt.
Why are people assuming that the points costs between the two sets are balanced? AOBR had over a 200 point difference between the Orks and Marines, I don't see any reason why the chaos and DA can be expected to be on even power.
The cultists are not meant to hold up against a tactical squad, they are being used to exhibit a new model/unit and generate an interest. The chosen and lord of course look cool, but thats the point. There is no reason why they have to be equal on points/power of a chapter master and terminators.
The point of the box set is to generate interest and pull you in with cool models. Your supposed to walk out of the store with $200 bucks worth of stuff. The box set + 3 boxs of other crap to flesh out which ever faction sparks your fancy the best.
I really don't see how a chaos lord is supposed to make up for a company master, libby, and chaplain. Unless that lord is one badass mofo.
Like I said, that hellbrute has to be a bad ass to make up for all the crappy units the Chaos get.
I'm not saying Chosen or Cultist are bad, but melee oriented Guardsman versus Spacemarines are suicide. Termies as a troop choice versus Cultists. Chosen and Helbrute versus bikes, Lib, and Chaplain as a special slot to represent the army. Points wise it adds up somewhere, but tactically, without knowing exactly how the Hellbrute works, it doesnt.
Why are people assuming that the points costs between the two sets are balanced? AOBR had over a 200 point difference between the Orks and Marines, I don't see any reason why the chaos and DA can be expected to be on even power.
The cultists are not meant to hold up against a tactical squad, they are being used to exhibit a new model/unit and generate an interest. The chosen and lord of course look cool, but thats the point. There is no reason why they have to be equal on points/power of a chapter master and terminators.
The point of the box set is to generate interest and pull you in with cool models. Your supposed to walk out of the store with $200 bucks worth of stuff. The box set + 3 boxs of other crap to flesh out which ever faction sparks your fancy the best.
Given the Chaos are rumored to have enought points to make a normal tac squad start lower than a SMtac squad and then be worth double that is a pretty good indication that they will be closer than expected.
Also, the point is to get people to buy space marines.
Realistically, Chaos has a decent chance at winning in DV,
The Chosen + lord would clean up the Tactical squad pretty fast with shooting and all the PW. The Hell brute could burn through the terminators, especially in CC where the hell brute hits at I4 with around 5 attacks. The cultists would do what cultists are supposed to do and die and maybe take something with them.
Only thing the hell brute would be concerned about is the plasma and AC. and if they waste shots on him the cultists and chosen are free to do whatever.
If the cultists are targeted. it doesn't matter, they're there to die.
if the chosen get targeted, that's when there's a problem, they wouldn't last long in a firefight. wrap them in cultists and move on target.
Noisy_Marine wrote: You know, if your cultists take down a terminator, you are required to get up on the table and do a happy dance.
You mean like my friend did when his Guardsman troop choice took out a Trigon with flashlights.
But seriously, It's funny how sometimes we forget that the little guy can take out the big baddies in this game.
The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.
Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.
Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th.
If this was true, then the next White Dwarf would have previews of Chaos Marine merchandise (e.g., models, Codex, etc.) other than the 40K starter set because it is a MAJOR product release all on its own, yet it appears there is no such mention in White Dwarf or that would have posted with the starter set pics. Also, while this is not impossible it does not follow any pattern established for monthly releases of the past couple years. In other words, this is likely false. Hopefully, Chaos Marines are the October release.
Noisy_Marine wrote:You know, if your cultists take down a terminator, you are required to get up on the table and do a happy dance.
You mean like my friend did when his Guardsman troop choice took out a Trigon with flashlights.
But seriously, It's funny how sometimes we forget that the little guy can take out the big baddies in this game.
Yeah it's only something like 1/2*1/3*1/6 for a 1/36 chance. 1/54 if cultists are BS2.
taking down Trigon however, that's happy dance time.
Sunoccard wrote: Realistically, Chaos has a decent chance at winning in DV,
The Chosen + lord would clean up the Tactical squad pretty fast with shooting and all the PW. The Hell brute could burn through the terminators, especially in CC where the hell brute hits at I4 with around 5 attacks. The cultists would do what cultists are supposed to do and die and maybe take something with them.
Only thing the hell brute would be concerned about is the plasma and AC. and if they waste shots on him the cultists and chosen are free to do whatever.
If the cultists are targeted. it doesn't matter, they're there to die.
if the chosen get targeted, that's when there's a problem, they wouldn't last long in a firefight. wrap them in cultists and move on target.
Actually, I don't think Chaos has a chance.
The tac squad has two plasma weapons in it, thats murder against the chosen. The raven wings also have plasma, TL boltguns, and between impact hits and then normal HTH they can take down the cultists, even if there is only the three of them.
The Hell brute is toast against the terminators. You assign its I4 attacks to the guy with the claws and sword, maybe the 5+ inv save saves one of them. Then they are striking back with at least 4 maybe 6 S8 attacks and 2-3 chainfist attacks. The brute is going down just by stripping off hull points.
Naturally this assumes best match ups. The Chaos guy will hope the brute gets into HTH with tac marines/chapter master as they have little chance of doing anything to it. The Lord and Chosen to take on the bikes (where their power weapons wont bounce), and the cultists against the terminators where weight of attacks will slow them down enough.
However, I still see it as the Marines win as they can take the best advantage of the range game and then most of their units have the tools to deal with pretty much any of the Chaos units.
@Jayden63: I'm pretty sure they don't intend everything on everything games with this starter set. You talk about SM countering CSM with this and that, but it's moot when SM have some 200pts more than Chaos.
Who cares whether Imperials get more points than Chaos? Chaos already gets the better, more detailed models! The Dark Angels get a few same-y terminators that look like all other terminators, a tac squad that looks like any other tac squad, and a bike squad that very closely resembles the current Dark Angels bikes.
Chaos, on the other hand, gets a huge and highly detailed Hellbrute and a fantastic array of highly detailed and individualized Chosen, as well as 20 cultists to get any cult started, all with different hoods and weapons that will be a fantastic addition to whatever Cultist box comes out later!
DA may have Chaos in points, but Chaos definitely has DA in style.
Also, there's a lot more 'hidden' upgrades you could give the Chaos Marines and cultists that aren't immediately apparent. Marks, powers, weapons, etc.. It's possible there's a lot more under the surface, whereas the DA are... highly transparent.
aka_mythos wrote: @Jayden63: I'm pretty sure they don't intend everything on everything games with this starter set. You talk about SM countering CSM with this and that, but it's moot when SM have some 200pts more than Chaos.
Thats what I said originally, but people still think that Chaos has a chance. It was the same with the AOBR set. Unless the Vengence rule set has some advantages for attackers vs defenders or some such, its not going to be an even fight.
And thats not surprising. No matter how cool the Chaos stuff looks, Imperial Marines (of any flavor) are still their poster children.
well depending on people willingness, they can easy make up the points difference by adding in some units on the chaos side from pre-exsting collections,
I just hope the new stuff is faqed in properly into our current book, Like quite a few others i still use my csm on a weekly baisis. And since 6th ed dropped i have been winning every other game with my csm
*****
I just noticed how long has our bike squad been gone from the site?
The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.
Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.
Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th.
If this was true, then the next White Dwarf would have previews of Chaos Marine merchandise (e.g., models, Codex, etc.) other than the 40K starter set because it is a MAJOR product release all on its own, yet it appears there is no such mention in White Dwarf or that would have posted with the starter set pics. Also, while this is not impossible it does not follow any pattern established for monthly releases of the past couple years. In other words, this is likely false. Hopefully, Chaos Marines are the October release.
If they had something chaos marine related on the Back cover, I would agree. However, it's Dark Angels. I honestly think GW has the balls to released DA before CSM. Just so they can release a loyalist codex first. It was commonly thought August was the month CSM would come out. Then it turns out to be Daemons. Now everyone says September, but the Starter box is September's focus. I doubt the Hellbrutes or Cultists will be used in normal games till the CSM codex update anyways, and the Chaos lord and chosen will follow the current rules, stats and prices. Sadly, I am thinking that CSM may be pushed back to 2013.
The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.
Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.
Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th.
If this was true, then the next White Dwarf would have previews of Chaos Marine merchandise (e.g., models, Codex, etc.) other than the 40K starter set because it is a MAJOR product release all on its own, yet it appears there is no such mention in White Dwarf or that would have posted with the starter set pics. Also, while this is not impossible it does not follow any pattern established for monthly releases of the past couple years. In other words, this is likely false. Hopefully, Chaos Marines are the October release.
If they had something chaos marine related on the Back cover, I would agree. However, it's Dark Angels. I honestly think GW has the balls to released DA before CSM. Just so they can release a loyalist codex first. It was commonly thought August was the month CSM would come out. Then it turns out to be Daemons. Now everyone says September, but the Starter box is September's focus. I doubt the Hellbrutes or Cultists will be used in normal games till the CSM codex update anyways, and the Chaos lord and chosen will follow the current rules, stats and prices. Sadly, I am thinking that CSM may be pushed back to 2013.
Now, shortly before we had the Daemons update in August there was a lot of talk about CSM being pushed back in favour of the new minis. That doesn't mean to say that DA will be out before CSM. In what world would GW bring out a starter set with models that can't be used or would require an update in WD or the actual set itself rather than codex, which according to a fair few sources out there, are printed and in warehousing. Also add to that how many FLGSs are not allowing any orders on the 3.5 codex.
The starters set is meant to introduce people to 40k. Show them a small sample of the armies, and in this case give them a set of rules how to use them. Meanwhile everyone who has been playing this game goes "OOOOOOOO! Pretty models" for the next few weeks or months until the Codex is actually released. They are awesome looking models, but unless I'm playing starter games their rules won't be used around here in normal games until the actual code comes out. It's like using some of the previous codex's rules in the current one, you don't see it. You want to use the Hellbrute model, then you use it under the current Chaos Dread's rules.
You could be right, but I set myself up for a severe dissapointment thinking that CSM were coming out back at the beginning of this month only to see Daemons come out. The feeling of disillusionment is still with me for the moment. I'd rather be pessimistic and be pleasantly surprised and proven wrong, than be optimistic only to be later disillusioned at the fact GW's hardon for Loyalist Marines continues.
That image has been around here and on warseer. GW are trying to promote their new starter set (DA vs CSM).
Why did you feel the need to facepalm? Nice 40k artwork isn't it?
I hadn't seen it so I thought I'd post it and I face palmed as it seemed to show that we would not be getting a new chaos codex. It is a nice bit of artwork though.
lord_blackfang wrote: Now, in all honesty, do you people actually intend to play with just the starter sets? Seriously.
We won't but the point of the starter is for new players to see how the game works. New players would only use the starter, and to me that's unfair to anyone non SM. I feel the reason SM are the most popular are because we get starter sets that make them more popular. When your a new player and GW staff suggests starting with the starter set and you and your buddy play and the SM are just so much stronger, what army are you and your buddy gonna pick up. I've seen it happen with Black Reach repeatedly.
That image has been around here and on warseer. GW are trying to promote their new starter set (DA vs CSM).
Why did you feel the need to facepalm? Nice 40k artwork isn't it?
I hadn't seen it so I thought I'd post it and I face palmed as it seemed to show that we would not be getting a new chaos codex. It is a nice bit of artwork though.
According to Faeit 212 the Chaos WD will be October's issue as it will show case the Chaos post launch instead of pre, which happens.
I agree with above.. its obvious if your first major experience with the game is the Space Marines, the most powerful faction on paper then you're likely going to stick with them. It's fairly rudimentary psychology.
unmercifulconker wrote: MY FAITH SHINES FROM MY PEARLY WHITES! Gotta have a nice smile when killing heretics.
Funny you should say that. A Japanese company just brought out a mech (it has four wheels, not legs sadly, but has a full moveable torso and arms) and the twin-BB mini-guns fire when you smile. Want to keep firing? Keep smiling!
For the first time in over 5 years I am now pledging myself to Chaos. I cannot describe on a child friendly forum how these rumours make me feel.
Though is anyone else worried from the pictures that the cultists are going to look a little short next to all other non-SM humans?
In response to all those doubting a chaos release BECAUSE of the model pics we've gotten, rember that those pics came from a 6th Edition Starter Set Rumor Thread, not a CSM Rumor Thread!
not forgettign that these models are in the starter kit. that is no guarantee thatthey will look like thsi when the new kits come out.
If it is anything like AOBR the models will not have any options with them and will not have any poseability to them.
Also...is the Hellbrute supposed to replace the Chaos Dread? I only ask as they pretty much share a chassis and the weapon options seem pretty similar.
Praxiss wrote: not forgettign that these models are in the starter kit. that is no guarantee thatthey will look like thsi when the new kits come out.
If it is anything like AOBR the models will not have any options with them and will not have any poseability to them.
Also...is the Hellbrute supposed to replace the Chaos Dread? I only ask as they pretty much share a chassis and the weapon options seem pretty similar.
yes its the dreadnought replacement.
If you read the first page its been said 100 times by many people its even included in the rumour and answered by the Q/A
I do trust these rumours, especially if the guy correctly predicted when the release would be and is also saying csm in sep along with others. But, I just cant help having huge doubts. All I wanna know is, have GW ever had a major release which no one saw coming? I.e. it was not in the WD?
Oooohhhh I really hope its sep, getting bored of reading csm next month already.
The back page of the White Dwarf use to preview what would be featured in Next Month's WD.
This has ceased to the case in the past couple issues. For example, last month's WD showed a large mural of Fate Weaver...this related to what was featured in Last Month's WD issue, namely Deamon's Release.
This month, the WD article featured the 40K starter box pitting CSM and DA and the back cover featured a mural of a DASM.
Looks to me like the trend is for the back cover to simply reflect that month's featured release. No more previews.
unmercifulconker wrote: I do trust these rumours, especially if the guy correctly predicted when the release would be and is also saying csm in sep along with others. But, I just cant help having huge doubts. All I wanna know is, have GW ever had a major release which no one saw coming? I.e. it was not in the WD?
Oooohhhh I really hope its sep, getting bored of reading csm next month already.
For as much as I can remember within the last month there is usually huge signs of a release. IF something is coming in September and it's not CSM then I would be surprised. CSM may not release in September but it's likely that or nothing.
wyomingfox wrote: The back page of the White Dwarf use to preview what would be featured in Next Month's WD.
This has ceased to the case in the past couple issues. For example, last month's WD showed a large mural of Fate Weaver...this related to what was featured in Last Month's WD issue, namely Deamon's Release.
This month, the WD article featured the 40K starter box pitting CSM and DA and the back cover featured a mural of a DASM.
Looks to me like the trend is for the back cover to simply reflect that month's featured release. No more previews.
I'm okay with this. Not like most people really wait around for the WD for previews anyways. Seems like most simply use it as rumor confirmation source.
Apparently, September is actually still correct. October release, Sept Pre-order.
Stickmonkey, today, BoLS forum:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It's hitting pretty hard that CSM are actually October, the confusion amongst the rumor mongers is that word is WD will hit the 22nd, in time for GDUK the 23rd. With pre-orders for CSM within. And on sale date of Sept. 29th. with a later in the month of Oct 2nd wave.
So the CSM out Sept is technically correct, but the reality is its the Oct release. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brometheus wrote: That's what I'm thinking.. but I suspect that "Preorder Sept and Release October" are one in the same, yes? You can say both.
When it gets to a point where I see at least a preview for it, I'd call that "The book is confirmed".
I just want the book. I don't really mind waiting a couple weeks.
Spoiler:
I'm sick of this damn bias towards marines. I mean come on. The Starter is so heavily biased to the DA new players are gonna pick them up because they are beating down the Chaos and the Chaos look like punks. Then if by some miracle someone want Chaos from the starter there isn't any of those models available nor is there any rules for them in the current codex. If that were me I'd just jump onto the damn DA because hell, they have a codex with all the models and rules I needed from the starter set. And don't stand there and tell me that a new player will wait for the codex. They won't know the new codex is a month out. GW won't tell them, and odds of them coming here or looking up rumors on a release for it when they are at a GW store and ready to buy some army stuff are slim to none. So no, I'm not happy with all the damn secrecy on the Chaos release.
kenzosan wrote: I'm sick of this damn bias towards marines. I mean come on.
That's your reasoning. My reasoning would be "Wow, these Chaos guys look really, really, REALLY badass, and are way cooler than these other dudes. I wanna play them."
kenzosan wrote: I'm sick of this damn bias towards marines. I mean come on.
That's your reasoning. My reasoning would be "Wow, these Chaos guys look really, really, REALLY badass, and are way cooler than these other dudes. I wanna play them."
But as I pointed out. You can't use them. That's the point. New players can't just walk into a GW after playing the starter set a couple times and get a new Chaos army started because they won't exist, the units they used, and no one at GW will tell him "oh yea the new codex comes out in a month so come back then to buy it."
kenzosan wrote: I'm sick of this damn bias towards marines. I mean come on.
That's your reasoning. My reasoning would be "Wow, these Chaos guys look really, really, REALLY badass, and are way cooler than these other dudes. I wanna play them."
But as I pointed out. You can't use them. That's the point. New players can't just walk into a GW after playing the starter set a couple times and get a new Chaos army started because they won't exist, the units they used, and no one at GW will tell him "oh yea the new codex comes out in a month so come back then to buy it."
Or the starter set includes the rules for the Chaos stuff, just as AoBR did?
Hello everyone, I just joined this forum specifically so I could reply to this thread. I noticed nobody has thought to bring this interesting item up yet:
I guess this pretty much confirms an update to Chaos, though what could it be exactly? I never thought Chaos were in need of an update, if anything I speculated Tau or even Eldar would be next. I do have a theory however, I think this update could bring about the return of Malal, specifically units that worship him.
That symbol at the end of the video shares more characteristics with the skull of Malal than anything else, unless somebody can explain its origins to me.
I would guess that, in lieu of a codex when the starter kit comes out, the mission book that comes with it will have a section for rules of any new units (Hellbrute, Cultists).
Other than those units everything in the set is covered by the current dex's i think?
That hasn't happened before, has it? Having units without proper rules yet appearing in a starter set, I mean. I can see them including some kind of rules update in the WD for people who want to use the cultists and Hellbrute though.
Although it appears to still be available on the GW site, 2 indy retailers today are saying that the Battleforce is now discontinued.....
The 22nd release Wd previewing the new chaos models, with said models, codex cover, pages etc etc then being viewable at GDUK on the 23rd seems quite plausible to me.
I am starting to doubt that CSM will release in September, I don't believe GW would do two major releases in the same month, plus there is a list of the models being released on the 15th and there is nothing Chaos related on that list. It makes me sad to have to wait another month possibly. But on a side not I will keep buys with the 2 starter sets I am buying, it will give me plenty of stuff to paint.
Brometheus wrote: Yes, but my point is that 2/3 of the force would not have a codex for use in normal games, that's all.
Pretty sure the rules are going to be in the starter box so they will indeed have rules. Otherwise I think it would be a poor choice to release them before the codex.
Also, some guy on BoLS forums said that his local store owner said "The chaos codex will be on sale Sept 8, if you give me $20, I will hold one for you".
Sounds like someone is getting their leg pulled by a gakky store owner.
PS- I understand that the starter set will include rules for the Hellbrute and Cultists, I am not denying that.
The thing that has me doubting all this "CSM's coming in sept/oct!" stuff though is the back page of the new WD. It's a full page colour picture of a DA Company Master.
Since when have GW advertised one army, but then released a completely different one?!
And outside of the Daemon books, since when has GW in the past 15 years released 2 different armies in the same month?!?
To me all the concrete GW evidence seems to be hinting at Dark Angels as being the first codex for 6th. I mean, ever since 2nd edition, hasn't the very first codex released for a new edition been a loyalist marine codex of some variety?!
Alright, but let's remember GW fluff everything up by (like every other magazine out there) releasing their monthly book before the next month.
So:
1. People say September is Chaos, but you see a DA on the last of this coming (september) WD.
2. Sept 22nd is supposedly when the next (October) WD is, to get ready for the 23rd gamesday or whatever the feth in the UK.
3. Therefore, it makes sense when rumor mongers say "Chaos is September", even though you see the DA image as being for stuff in the September WD.
To be fair, they are not advertising any army. In fact, they are doing no advertising at all at the moment as you know. So your point of advertising DA but releasing CSM is as weak as my left leg. There's only one other person saying DA is september.. and it's that goddamn troll on Faeit212.
If you're watching, troll. Feth you.
I'll be happy for DA players if they do in fact get a new codex in September. That just means I will have more reason to play my custom Tsons rules at my local store.
@Brometheus: The back cover of WD is almost always a hint at what's coming out in the next month's issue. The new September issue coming out this Saturday is almost exclusively about the new 40k core set, and has the picture of a DA Company Master on the back cover, thus hinting at the October WD being DA releated in some way. This could be the new DA codex which we know is 'in the pipeline', or a model wave of DA's, or just a bunch of DA articles, or some combination of the above.
If Chaos Marines were indeed coming in October, wouldn't there have been some kind of chaosy artwork as well, or instead of, the DA artwork?
Now if the new Chaos Marine codex is supposed to be a September release, then why isn't it advertised in the new September WD?!! Have GW ever done a 'ninja' release that wasn't plastered all over the New Release section of that month's WD?!
I'm not trying to troll or anything - I want that new CSM codex badly as well so I can add a proper 'summoning cult' as allies to my Daemons damnit! I just think that the actual, in-print evidence we currently have is likely hinting at something else...
We've also had too many false claims now in regards to this eagerly awaited codex. First it was "Chaos Marines in May!", then it was "Chaos Marines this summer," which then became "Chaos Marines in August!" Now we're hearing both "Chaos Marines in early September or late September" and/or "Chaos Marines in early October!"
I think it would best to stop pinning hopes on rumors as it's getting just too depressing that each 'release month' has been getting pushed back further and further...
Me? I'm starting to think 'new CSM's codex by January!' Sure it sucks to wait and not know, but it's better than having my hopes repeatedly dashed time and time again by crossed rumor wires.
Looking back at the recent wd, the back page does not always cover what the man focus of the magazine is. The month fliers where released, the back page had orks, white scars and crons on it, this was just a article and campain thing. The main release didn't have anything to do with them, could this be the same?
Lets say that Chaos is next month but there is a article on DA, this would explain the back page and fit with the current trend of pack pages because gw doesn't want to give anything away.
This is just my opinion but could explain both rumours and the back page.
Or the starter set includes the rules for the Chaos stuff, just as AoBR did?
We know it will. But the point is you can't buy more of them unless you buy another starter. A new player starting an army is not going to shell out for another starter when they don't need over half the stuff in it.
StickMonkey wrote:
It's hitting pretty hard that CSM are actually October, the confusion amongst the rumor mongers is that word is WD will hit the 22nd, in time for GDUK the 23rd. With pre-orders for CSM within. And on sale date of Sept. 29th. with a later in the month of Oct 2nd wave.
So the CSM out Sept is technically correct, but the reality is its the Oct release.
This will be awesome if we get the CSM previews at GDUK!
Experiment 626 wrote: @Brometheus: The back cover of WD is almost always a hint at what's coming out in the next month's issue. The new September issue coming out this Saturday is almost exclusively about the new 40k core set, and has the picture of a DA Company Master on the back cover, thus hinting at the October WD being DA releated in some way. This could be the new DA codex which we know is 'in the pipeline', or a model wave of DA's, or just a bunch of DA articles, or some combination of the above.
If Chaos Marines were indeed coming in October, wouldn't there have been some kind of chaosy artwork as well, or instead of, the DA artwork?
Now if the new Chaos Marine codex is supposed to be a September release, then why isn't it advertised in the new September WD?!! Have GW ever done a 'ninja' release that wasn't plastered all over the New Release section of that month's WD?!
I'm not trying to troll or anything - I want that new CSM codex badly as well so I can add a proper 'summoning cult' as allies to my Daemons damnit! I just think that the actual, in-print evidence we currently have is likely hinting at something else...
We've also had too many false claims now in regards to this eagerly awaited codex. First it was "Chaos Marines in May!", then it was "Chaos Marines this summer," which then became "Chaos Marines in August!" Now we're hearing both "Chaos Marines in early September or late September" and/or "Chaos Marines in early October!"
I think it would best to stop pinning hopes on rumors as it's getting just too depressing that each 'release month' has been getting pushed back further and further...
Me? I'm starting to think 'new CSM's codex by January!' Sure it sucks to wait and not know, but it's better than having my hopes repeatedly dashed time and time again by crossed rumor wires.
Or it could mean that the '' Battle rages on'' against the new chaos marines.
Current WD (Daemons) has Daemons on back cover. I think back cover images have started been a reference to the actual issue they're printed on. Almost like a wrap-around. They really should start doing wrap-around covers (and rope John Blanche into doing every single cover, lol). That would be nice.
my local store is a small one, so instead of bringing lot of things to the store there are a few minis in the place and every few months they do a concentrated order from GW with a catalog of what they can bring (cuz GW limits em). before a few days they starter a new order and there are 3 interesting things in it:
1. there is the new starter set to order, including the special edition one
2. there is a dark vengeance novel
3. usually they bring all of the codexes (except SoB), but this time there is no chaos space marine codex. i think it means GW dont wanna sell the old codex cuz there going to be a new 1.
Just got off the phone to my GWFLGS Manager, called to ask if I can put my name down to reserve an LE box, and asked if he knew anything about a replacement codex.
I was told that as there are new units in the box that don't currently have rules the codex must be supplied at the same time or close to the release of the starter kit.
It's already been said that there will be a booklet with the rules in for these units, I just don't think I can believe that GW will have people working half out of an 5 year old codex whilst flicking through a 2 page booklet for a couple of other units. I doubt that they'd feel right in play.
I'm really hoping that they'll release the Codex with the starter kit. Fingers crossed.
merchant wrote: Hi all, I hope that some of you might be able to help me - I have searched for a price, and wasn't able to find one.
Even an estimated price will be nice :-D
Cheers all
I have seen $99 for the starter set on a forum somewhere, and US $108 for the limited edition. i guess that would be £65 for the basic. I have also seen AUS$180 mentioned - hope that gives you some idea.
I'm really hoping that they'll release the Codex with the starter kit. Fingers crossed.
Talk is that on the 22nd of September the WD will be announcing pre-orders for new Chaos stuff, and it will release the first of October. I don't think it'll be a big deal having to wait a month at most for access to a new codex; it's going to take that long for a lot of people to get around to painting and building the models in the first place, and on top of that it'll mean nothing 30 days later.
Wow, looks great. I haven't brushed up on the 6th edition rules, so I feel like this will be one of the few GW purchases I can actually feel good about
Lucre wrote: So is there a unit anyone here is excited or particularly hopeful about?
I'm generally excited rather than specifically excited. I'm excited that the current chapter in Chaos' 40k history is about to come to an ignoble and inglorious end? That's something to get excited about.
The 'Chaos' Codex is dead! Long live the Chaos Codex!
i'm looking forward to the new daemon engines and proper warsmith rules to make my Iron Warriors more fluffy.
I'm withholding judgement on the dragon as word is that havocs will be able to buy Flakk missiles......so an AA flier might not be worth the expense (money or points-wise).
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm generally excited rather than specifically excited. I'm excited that the current chapter in Chaos' 40k history is about to come to an ignoble and inglorious end? That's something to get excited about.
The 'Chaos' Codex is dead! Long live the Chaos Codex!
I think we're probably in for another bitter disappointment, myself. By all reports it's still mostly Renegades with Marks Lite.
I'm honestly beginning to not even care, really. I've found that I don't play 40k much anymore, and have switched to better games. I'm going to get the book, look through it, and try to enjoy it-if I find it just doesn't have that Umph that I need, you guys can look for my CSM up in the swap shop or ebay. This isn't a rant or rage that I'm quitting GW, much less the tabletop hobby, just that I'm becoming a bit disenfranchised with GW and I'm lowering my army count and testing the waters of other games. I have a bunch of Mantic stuff, a full Allies army for Dust Warfare (far better game than 40K), a couple of mechs for Classic Battletech and even a 25 point Khador army for Warmachine. GW has to shine with this book, or it'll be the first 40k army I let go. I may end up only keeping my Black Templars and Daemons, depending on how other books look. Don't care about strength, care about fun-make this book fun GW, please.
Lucre wrote: So is there a unit anyone here is excited or particularly hopeful about?
...
The 'Chaos' Codex is dead! Long live the Chaos Codex!
Yes!
Me I'm excited for the inclusion of cultists. I think they'll be a unit eveyone will find a use for.
The inclusion of additional daemon engines also excites me. Chaos has needed models and types of units to distinguish itself from loyalists and these along with cultists do that.
I'm thinking the Chosen will make for some great Aspiring Champions. If you can still attach Aspiring Champions to cultist squads it'd be a no brainer!
The cool thing is that you can say "well, I'm using double FoC this game. 2 small units of cultists, 2 units of CSMs"
Then the real magic happens when you attach a chaos lord to each unit of cultists, and you still have 2 HQ slots for whichever character you wanted originally.
So even if they dont let us throw champs in squads (which would be totally LatD), a Lord or Sorcerer would be a nice way to do it.
I wont really be using Cultists, I don't think. Unless I get bored down the road? If you can give cultists an Aspiring Sorcerer, I will be doing it, yes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm generally excited rather than specifically excited. I'm excited that the current chapter in Chaos' 40k history is about to come to an ignoble and inglorious end? That's something to get excited about.
The 'Chaos' Codex is dead! Long live the Chaos Codex!
I think we're probably in for another bitter disappointment, myself. By all reports it's still mostly Renegades with Marks Lite.
Anyone who's played Thousand Sons for a decent period of time can only see the world in bitter disappointments
i'm looking forward to the new daemon engines and proper warsmith rules to make my Iron Warriors more fluffy.
Praxiss, are we the same person? Because the more I experience your point of view the more I come to realize it is identical to my own.
In any case, if it wasn't obvious, I am also looking forward to (hopefully) getting some damn Warsmiths and perhaps some kind of change to Havocs or something. As it is we can already take Basilisks, and that's half the battle.
Icon vs mark is really interesting to me. I wonder how that will turn out. Maybe you'll be able to make some flexible or streamlined decent scoring units out of the mix and match.
Does anyone remember the rumors regarding Chosen and Abbadon? Chosen are set to be 18/19, but have lost infiltrate. I wonder what the added cost entails... +1A +1LD on dorky 14 point marines? I bet there are other tricks up the chosen's sleeve and I can't wait to find out! Maybe they get to choose a veteran skill?
It seems from the info so far, that the book will be encouraging MSU-mech, lots of elite infantry or zilla lists. I'm a little dubious about the last two archetypes, because there aren't very good ways to move big jerks forward quickly in the source material or current rumors, besides teleporting terminators, dragons and DP. I can see a lot of effective lists very much resembling space woofs or knights.
It's got it's benefits, but I feel like it's a little outclassed by options at similar points in GK, SW and IG codecies. I'd be really happy if there were options that worked outside the MSU special weapon + scoring trope.
So is there a unit anyone here is excited or particularly hopeful about?
Really want the starter set Cultists. For Inquisimunda really though. Liking the look of the Hellbrute. Already imagining it painted up in my Plague Marine colour scheme. I'm really hoping the rumour about Typhus turning Cultists into Plague Zombies is true cos I've just acquired a bunch of Necromunda Plague Zombies and really want to field them with my CSM (with some mantic reinforcements probably). To me rules are a secondary consideration to the miniatures, especially since I only play in a small group of friends, and never particularly competitively. Although it would be nice if they play a lot more radically different to Loyalist Marines from now on.
Cultists seem so uninspiring to me! maybe backfield scoring for a list that can't afford a unit that actually plays a role.
I worry about cultists, I don't really know what they are there for. Seems like it's just a little nod. I do think they could be useful as a tarpit if you've got some FNP ones, but then they'd just be bubble wrap right? 30 man squads don't get anywhere fast and they don't find cover very easily.
Lucre wrote: Cultists seem so uninspiring to me! maybe backfield scoring for a list that can't afford a unit that actually plays a role.
I worry about cultists, I don't really know what they are there for. Seems like it's just a little nod. I do think they could be useful as a tarpit if you've got some FNP ones, but then they'd just be bubble wrap right? 30 man squads don't get anywhere fast and they don't find cover very easily.
They're a cheap chaff unit, which Chaos didn't have before. Yes, backfield scoring units are a possibility. They're also good as a screening unit for your better troops, sacrificial units, speedbumps, or any of the variety of ways you'd use a mob of Guardsmen or Orks.
Guys remember...
Whatever happens, whatever changes and whatever will or will not be competitive, WE are going to have a new codex.
Thats the most important thing, and as long as no one like ward ruins the fluff everything will be ok.
We will survive! And yes we gonna have a new range of awesome models...
If memory serves me correct wasn't it stated at Gamesday that the codex releases are going to start coming out in threes? So therefore if this is the case maybe the CSM, DA, and some
other codex will be coming out soon at the same time to keep balance in the game.
kitch102 wrote: Just got off the phone to my GWFLGS Manager, called to ask if I can put my name down to reserve an LE box, and asked if he knew anything about a replacement codex.
I was told that as there are new units in the box that don't currently have rules the codex must be supplied at the same time or close to the release of the starter kit.
It's already been said that there will be a booklet with the rules in for these units, I just don't think I can believe that GW will have people working half out of an 5 year old codex whilst flicking through a 2 page booklet for a couple of other units. I doubt that they'd feel right in play.
I'm really hoping that they'll release the Codex with the starter kit. Fingers crossed.
How can you not see GW doing this when they make you buy an entire WD for 1 page of rules and you have to use that 1 page. What I mean is that GW will update the dex when they want to and convenience is no care unless you buy the ebooks.
I'm just hoping that the Sonic Blasters my noise marines still have to purchase have been dropped down to 3 points rather than 5 points. At least having 16 point Noise Marines means I can make it a mainstay troop thats better than Space wolves.
What I'm hoping to see: -Fluff that does Chaos and CSM justice. Continue the trend in the 6th Ed Rulebook of Chaos being the "Greatest Threat" and the Black Crusades as a series of calculated blows to gradually weaken the Imperium
-A detailed to semi-detailed fluff exploration of all of the Traitor Legions
-At least 3 Daemon Engines
-Flyer
-Warsmith & Dark Apostles
-New special characters, preferably a Daemon Prince, an Iron Warrior, and a Word Bearer.
-CSM able to stand up to Vanilla Marines
-Full access to Daemons (already more or less the case with the Allies option fortunately)
-Some sort of reference that Imperial Guard allied with Chaos makes them Traitor Guard, including pics of Traitor Guard models (similar to the old Codex Eye of Terror)
-More Lost and the Damned options, including Rogue Psykers and Mutants.
What I'm hoping I don't see -Vanilla Marines kicking Chaos ass at every turn (leave that for their own Codex)
-Emphasis on Renegade Space Marines, not Chaos. More Abaddon and less Huron.
-Chaos gets the Tyranid treatment. No matter how recent their codex is, they always suck on the table.
-No new special characters, the same band of guys we've been seeing since 2nd Edition.
-Making CSM loyalist Marines in black armor.
What I wish I would see but I know there's no chance of it -Something about what Mortarion, Perturabo, and Magnus have been up to.
Gameplay/rules have always been secondary to me to the lore/hobby, so I'm probably going to be more pleased with this then most assuming GW doesn't pull anymore Mortarions vs. Draigo's.
Lucre wrote: So is there a unit anyone here is excited or particularly hopeful about?
I for one look forward to the combination of Marks and Icons so I may see the following.
A nice and happy unit of T5, FNP Terminators with Typhus in the middle.
I don't care if it looks to be ridiculously expensive. Proper Plague Terminators should be. But that bubble will be ridiculously hard to kill and should make a very nice 'terror' unit.
I'm just excited to finally be getting the general update. I'll get very excited for the new models once I see them (like I always do no matter what army comes out).
I fully intend to use regular Chaos Marines as troops. I'm painting up a couple basic bolter guys as filler for the squads right now, and as we get closer to the Codex release I'll start painting Icons and special weapons.
Then, when new models come out, I'll use those as the cult marines, havocs, chosen, etc. I'm hoping that'll give the army a good heirarchy look, with older models being basic troops and more detailed models being other options.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: I'm just hoping that the Sonic Blasters my noise marines still have to purchase have been dropped down to 3 points rather than 5 points. At least having 16 point Noise Marines means I can make it a mainstay troop thats better than Space wolves.
This for starters.
I also like the mark/icon idea and hope to truly field cult Noise Marines. I am currently thinking of ways to manipulate the Cultists to have a more Slaaneshi feel to them, maybe combine them with wracks?
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?
And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
If the rumors are true: Typhus lead, Zombie cultist horde with Plaguemarines filling in the points. Totally for fun horde army of CSM.
I can't wait for this, it's my fun apoc formation anyway.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
Mark of Slaanesh Gives the Hell Brute "Sonic Scream" for Assault and Defensive Grenades. So I wouldn't be surprised if that is what MoS will also do to Termies. If Icon of Slaanesh is Still +1I you got your self a pretty scary Assault Termy Squad.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
Mark of Slaanesh Gives the Hell Brute "Sonic Scream" for Assault and Defensive Grenades. So I wouldn't be surprised if that is what MoS will also do to Termies. If Icon of Slaanesh is Still +1I you got your self a pretty scary Assault Termy Squad.
Just speculation anyway.
Good times for mixed armies too. Depending on what the Marks and Icons do exactly, but if FNP is a mark, god help anything in the way of Chaos Termies.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?
And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!
Nvs wrote:
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?
And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!
Nvs wrote:
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?
And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!
Why are you assaulting with Thousand Sons?
Because the Sorcerer that had gained Fiery Form thirsts for the blood of his enemies!
Plus it helps if the enemy has furious charge or something that you don't want to charge you with and you want to deny them the charge effect. Or if you've used something akin to the blinding effect.
Honestly, I'm really hoping we get a new CSM kit. By the looks of those chosen, GW has a whole new idea of what CSM should look like, and I would be pretty bummed if we got stuck with the kit we have now for another four or five years.
Same with terminators. I think it's fairly safe to say that CSM have the worst terminator Kit in the game, except possibly the tactical terminators, which no one uses anyway
ZebioLizard2 wrote:Because the Sorcerer that had gained Fiery Form thirsts for the blood of his enemies!
Plus it helps if the enemy has furious charge or something that you don't want to charge you with and you want to deny them the charge effect. Or if you've used something akin to the blinding effect.
Brometheus wrote:Thousand Sons can break units if you can pull off a rapid fire and charge, now that open terrain is no longer difficult for them.
If you don't try to get into assault at least a couple times with Thousand Sons, you're probably playing them wrong.
You can't win by just sitting back and plinking. You will lose. Ask any of my regular opponents about that.
but this is not the place, maybe we should do a Tsons tactica.
It must just be who I play primarily then, CC infantry armies and tanks. Denying the charge is good and all but I could just as easily keep them at 24 in and blast the hell out of them instead of getting beaten down in CC.
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Captain Fantastic wrote: Honestly, I'm really hoping we get a new CSM kit. By the looks of those chosen, GW has a whole new idea of what CSM should look like, and I would be pretty bummed if we got stuck with the kit we have now for another four or five years.
Same with terminators. I think it's fairly safe to say that CSM have the worst terminator Kit in the game, except possibly the tactical terminators, which no one uses anyway
Termi kit is most likely getting an update as with the current kit you have to take a combi and reaper, as well as since power weapons changed, the axe and maul set up is horrible as there's no point difference (which I'm sure there will be.
If you can stay 24" away, my friend, I congratulate you because I have a lot to learn. I find myself getting very close every game, whether I want to or not ^_^
Ahhh if the termies get a cooler Reaper... that'd be fun.
Harriticus wrote: What I'm hoping I don't see -Vanilla Marines kicking Chaos ass at every turn (leave that for their own Codex)
-Emphasis on Renegade Space Marines, not Chaos. More Abaddon and less Huron.
-Chaos gets the Tyranid treatment. No matter how recent their codex is, they always suck on the table.
-No new special characters, the same band of guys we've been seeing since 2nd Edition.
-Making CSM loyalist Marines in black armor.
Don't worry. I'm sure they'll be loyalist marines in black armor with ATSKNF, combat tactics and combat squads replaced with random tables.
Nvs wrote:And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
Any unit with soulblaze, 4++ and AP3 has plenty going for it.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well, at least Tzeentch has Daemon allies that meaningfully contribute to your tactical options unlike Khorne and Nurgle. I guess there's that.
Well considering standard power weapons costs 10 points i think Ksons are reasonably priced.
Think about it we get a 4++ save always ... and we have power swords but in bolter form.
If you complain about the lack of Heavy Weapons or Special weapons, we do get them in the form of our sorcerer.
What other unit can get a LOS on their Special Weapon models
I would love to see 20Pt Ksons though ... pray to the chaos every day for it. But i dont question why we pay so much our cult unit is awesome. Going to throw in Fate Weaver and they will never die. Back them up with 2 defilers and their battle cannons. DS the Horrors w/ changeling onto an objective and just wait for them fliers to kill me.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?
And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?
Look, I don't want to split hairs here, but I'm really kind of tired of hearing that Nurgle and Khorne are "covered" whereas Slaanesh and Tzeentch aren't. Saying +1T/FNP is what Nurgle is about is akin to saying +1 inv. save/Ap 3 weapons is what Tzeentch is about. Nurgle is lacking blight grenades and poisoned weapons just as much as Tzeentch is lacking extra psychic fun. That said, game wise I'll take FNP over blight grenades or poison.
I have a lot of faith in Phil Kelly to put out a solid codex. I've really liked all the books he wrote for 5th and I think he just "gets" the armies he's written. I don't want the next Grey Knights dex, I just want a book that works how a chaos army should, and I'm sure he will pull that off. That said, don't expect him to spell out the exact way to make a legion army, just like he didn't spell out how to make Ork clans. The tools will be there, but it's up to you to build around that theme. Honestly I prefer that to having GW hold my hand and tell me how a legion force should look like.
I have a lot of faith in Phil Kelly to put out a solid codex. I've really liked all the books he wrote for 5th and I think he just "gets" the armies he's written.
4th Edition Eldar was pretty much GK in skimmer form, and 5th space wolves was GK before GK came out. DE was just right though, even with some of the fluff being to out there (Vect, by god)
That said, don't expect him to spell out the exact way to make a legion army, just like he didn't spell out how to make Ork clans. The tools will be there, but it's up to you to build around that theme.
I have a friend who's still very much bitter about losing his all infiltrating Blood Axe army to the point who gave up 40k when he lost it, the problem with this is that you'll get only part of what you can build with said theme. You'll get sorcerers and thousand son troops, but that's it really, you won't have sorcerer led terminators, no burning magics all over, no various ways of causing blight and decay with a nurgle army aside from just having a higher T and FNP.
Face it, it's fine if they don't spell out the way to make an army, but there's no way they are giving us the tools we need to truly make a themed god army or even a basic legion army. Raptors and jump troops? Sure, but don't expect either of them to be troops so you'll need other things.
I have a friend who's still very much bitter about losing his all infiltrating Blood Axe army to the point who gave up 40k when he lost it, the problem with this is that you'll get only part of what you can build with said theme. You'll get sorcerers and thousand son troops, but that's it really, you won't have sorcerer led terminators, no burning magics all over, no various ways of causing blight and decay with a nurgle army aside from just having a higher T and FNP.
Face it, it's fine if they don't spell out the way to make an army, but there's no way they are giving us the tools we need to truly make a themed god army or even a basic legion army. Raptors and jump troops? Sure, but don't expect either of them to be troops so you'll need other things.
I was on a break from the game during a good portion of 4th, so I can't really comment on Eldar, other than really, really enjoying reading the codex. But yes, his codexes have been powerful, but even as they get older they age very well and play how I feel those armies should play.
As for your friend's army, that sucks his list became invalid, it really does. I think 40k went had an oversimplification period under Alessio Cavatore that is now being redone to bring more flavor back to armies. Some people like it, some don't but I think lists like that are more likely moving forward. The fact that there are rumors of exodite Eldar and Allies supplements is a good indication quirky or out of the box lists might be possible again. Hell, I've always been drawn to those armies myself!
I think the problem with people saying they aren't being given the tools they need to make a legion list is that they are always pointing back to the 3.5 lists, which were very strict in outlining the legions. Yes, 1k Sons may be a general exception since you can't have a sorcerer leading terminators or what have you. But Night Lords aren't only raptors, so I don't buy "raptors as troops" as a valid complaint of not having the tools for that legion and just about every other legion has a lot of ways to represent their forces if the new rumors are true. But really there's not much point arguing about hypotheticals , because we simply don't know what all we will be getting in the new book.
I think that if you are passionate about having a certain kind of army, you will find a way to make it and make it well.
Thousand Sons for example. They're known for 2 things.. psykers and rubric marines. Well, the Rubric Marines you'll be able to get as troops with a Sorcerer HQ with mark of tzeentch. Max out your Sorcs and throw in some tanks or daemon engines. Then ally with Daemons of Tzeentch to throw in more psyker goodness! Paint it all blue and gold and you're there. It doesn't seem that hard to me.
Yes, you won't have rubric terminators. I think we all just need to make peace with the fact that the Codex writers really don't want to bother designing 9 different styles of Terminators (one for each legion) just like they couldn't do that with every troop, fast attack, or heavy option.
Look outside the box. Years ago I wrote a post about using the rules without the models on miniwargaming.com. It was well received by Chaos players that didn't like Nurgle because I gave them new ways to represent the plague marine unit option without having to buy that particular box of miniatures.
If there's something not available exactly as you want it, go and find a way to make it work. Don't just whine about it.
Who else cant wait to just put all the delicious goodness into your cart. There's just something special about coming home to a big box on the chair, turning on some epic music then opening the big box seeing all the perfect rectangular boxes all neatly packed wrapped in that shiny goodness, eagerly taking off the wrapping off each box, admiring it, setting it down and then gazing into the box to find even more perfect rectangular boxes.
unmercifulconker wrote: Who else cant wait to just put all the delicious goodness into your cart. There's just something special about coming home to a big box on the chair, turning on some epic music then opening the big box seeing all the perfect rectangular boxes all neatly packed wrapped in that shiny goodness, eagerly taking off the wrapping off each box, admiring it, setting it down and then gazing into the box to find even more perfect rectangular boxes.
Chaos Release: The Erotica Novel.
Then that feeling of disappointment when you read the codex and find out half those models are useless because they are too expensive or they don't fit in with your army make up.
I've become a crusher of hopes and dreams from all the years of crushed hopes and dreams GW as given me.
i'm looking forward to the new daemon engines and proper warsmith rules to make my Iron Warriors more fluffy.
Praxiss, are we the same person? Because the more I experience your point of view the more I come to realize it is identical to my own.
In any case, if it wasn't obvious, I am also looking forward to (hopefully) getting some damn Warsmiths and perhaps some kind of change to Havocs or something. As it is we can already take Basilisks, and that's half the battle.
LOl.
There are quite a few IW players hiding out around here. We tend to come out fo the woodwork when rumours of a new big gun for chaos armies appears!
I was planning on getting some IG Cadian squads to play as traitor guard for me allies (got the FW renegade commadn sqaud for the HQ) - depending on cost i might switch to using cultists models instead....coudl look better. Any excuse to field my Bassie ina 40k game!
I'm hoping the Warsmith gets some nice options. My metal one has a converion beam in place of a servo-arm and it woudl be awesoem to actually use him (use him in apoc as a MoTF)
Aura of Dark Majesty? Sounds decidedly Vampire Counts to me!
I'm planning on getting around 40 cultists to use for either Infantry Platoons or Penal Legion, so I can ally them into my IW army, alongside 3 Medusae.
Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
Bought two starter sets, have to keep telling myself if worse comes to worse, at least I'll have two awesome models (hellbrutes). I really hope that the CSM codex doesn't disappoint, don't fail us Phil Kelly!
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
I think somebody posted that Hastings said late September early October for the next codex.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
I think somebody posted that Hastings said late September early October for the next codex.
Late September pre-order (like Dark Vengeance was this month) and October 1st release.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
I think somebody posted that Hastings said late September early October for the next codex.
Late September pre-order (like Dark Vengeance was this month) and October 1st release.
Tyr Grimtooth wrote: I would like a solid 1k Sons list to complement my existing Wolves army. Also I think that a nice Slaneesh army would be nice to field as well.
Congratulations, you are asking to come home to a house on fire one day.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
I think somebody posted that Hastings said late September early October for the next codex.
Late September pre-order (like Dark Vengeance was this month) and October 1st release.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
I think somebody posted that Hastings said late September early October for the next codex.
Late September pre-order (like Dark Vengeance was this month) and October 1st release.
I hope you are right Brother SRM. I really do.
Logicly CSM should be next since we new have models without all the rules to use them...but with gw they toss logic out the window unless thousands of people send in a petition or strongly worded letters saying it time to realese the chaos space marine codex.
I have this idea that somehow melee cultists will work in the new codex. Deck em out in an icon for fnp (if that is one) and mark of khorne. That's a lot of potential imo. 3 attacks minimum per model, assuming they'll be like guard we could have upward of 150 melee strikes. Fnp for some kind of survival.
Don't you dare crush this dream gw!
But seriously, cultist could be useful depending on the options they get. I just don't see a point in buying a starter since I don't know if I want any of it. None of you know the rules and you all buy it. This is why gw doesn't care about the complaints. I'm sorry I got sidetracked at the end there.
My personal biggest concern, more than rules, is that CSM's get the same fluff "treatment" that the 5E marine books did, with absurdly ridiculous feats (Chaos Lord WorldStab slays 9002 Leman Russ tanks by himself!), awful naming conventions (looks like the "Hell" is going to be CSM's equivalent of "wolyfwolfwolf"), and stuff hamfisted in for it's own sake (Wolf Claws, TWC's, Dreadknights, Librarian AV13 dreads, heavy battle tanks in FA slots, etc) rather than because it actually fits or that it was needed in some way.
Also, an avoidance of gimmick mechanics. I'm all for fun game design, but junk like the Imhotek, Vulkan, Death Rays, Blood Talons, JotWW, etc bypasses too many game mechanics, while requiring no interactivity, command ability, etc. Leave them out please.
Now, granted, much of that is subjective, but in general there's been a great deal of discontent on that front showing that, for many 5th edition books at least, GW did cross a line for more than just those that will be upset by any changes, and I'm hoping that stops.
Dr. Delorean wrote: I'm planning on getting around 40 cultists to use for either Infantry Platoons or Penal Legion, so I can ally them into my IW army, alongside 3 Medusae.
That sounds like a pretty bad idea. In general, using models that are legal in your army list to represent entirely different models that are legal in your army list is frowned upon.
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I agree with you there. I don't like the model either to be honest.
But saying that, the cultists are amazing. I think it may have been worth buying the box just for them.
I like the look, but I'm just not a fan of Dreadnought stuff. I prefer a tank, infantry, and mc's. I think it stems mainly from my loathing of walkers. As I said before, without knowing the rules and going by rumors it makes no sense to jump on this starter. This is why I've hated the "starter showing off new models for chaos but not having any rules for it before hand" and yet everyone seems to be super excited for this starter because, "OMFG new chaos models!"
I'm grabbing a couple of Hellbrutes from friends (Dark Angel playing friends. I am ashamed). I'm not overly enamoured by the model, but it does have some nice details I'd like to copy. The powerfist especially is very nice, and I'm glad I'll have two to play with, but most of the fleshy details are just generic and boring.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
When i first saw it I instantly thought that GW had not gotten over their fetish for making some form of Loyalist Space Marines their first army. Going down this road, I saw November as out of the question since WoC are slated for Nov apparently, and December is most assuredly The Hobitt. I had a bad feeling CSM will be pushed back to 2013, given that I thought they were coming out in early Aug, then early Sep. and we all know how that went.(for those of you who argue that it's not september yet, we know the Box Set is September. GW will not release the CSM Codex at the same time as the Starter Box. Plus there is nothing about CSM beyond the Starter box inside this months WD), What little optimism that I have is hoping for this time next month for orders. However, past expeirence has taught me it's better to be pleasantly surprised, that bitterly dissapointed.
So to get things straight cause I m a bit confused.
According to new WD not having new chaos images, we should not a chaos dex soon? (till 1st of octomber)
avedominusnox wrote: So to get things straight cause I m a bit confused.
According to new WD not having new chaos images, we should not a chaos dex soon? (till 1st of octomber)
WD doesn't really tell us anything anymore aside from "this is for sale now" so don't put stock in it.
Synister_Intent wrote: Well ladies and gents, looks like we might have to wait another month to see anything about the Chaos Codex, I am sitting here currently looking at the inside of the back cover of the newest issue of WD and there artwork of a DA, seems to me for the past several months that this inside of the back cover is a way for GW to give us all a hint of what is to come next month. If this artwork is any indication of what is to come I think I am going to be thoroughly disappointed. What do you guys think this artwork means?
When i first saw it I instantly thought that GW had not gotten over their fetish for making some form of Loyalist Space Marines their first army. Going down this road, I saw November as out of the question since WoC are slated for Nov apparently, and December is most assuredly The Hobitt. I had a bad feeling CSM will be pushed back to 2013, given that I thought they were coming out in early Aug, then early Sep. and we all know how that went.(for those of you who argue that it's not september yet, we know the Box Set is September. GW will not release the CSM Codex at the same time as the Starter Box. Plus there is nothing about CSM beyond the Starter box inside this months WD), What little optimism that I have is hoping for this time next month for orders. However, past expeirence has taught me it's better to be pleasantly surprised, that bitterly dissapointed.
They have to release the Chaos codex because they have to release the new models and the rules for them. You can't get new players into the game if the models they want to use aren't available for purchase nor in the codex. Chaos have to be Oct or they wouldn't put in new Chaos models for the starter.
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Rivet wrote: I wonder when we might start seeing some new rumors in regards to this now that Dark Vengeance is officially announced.
If you look at the rumors the only thing we'd see are pics from the codex. I mean we have the rules for marks and icons, new models, and existing models new rules. There isn't much left but specifics which can't be posted here. I could be wrong and someone could post something completely out of the blue. We're just more likely to see DA, Eldar, Tau, Sisters, or w/e other armies are coming out next year.
avedominusnox wrote: So to get things straight cause I m a bit confused.
According to new WD not having new chaos images, we should not a chaos dex soon? (till 1st of octomber)
WD doesn't really tell us anything anymore aside from "this is for sale now" so don't put stock in it.
I think the confusetion comes from the short stretch of time when the back a year or so ago they would have a some artwork with "next mounth" at the bottom to preview/hint at next mounth's releases.
Thing is they don't really do it regularly any more. So it's hard to tell if the artwork on the back is because of the Dark Angels in the starter set NOW, or if it's a hint at more dark angels in October. (Remember this is the Step. WD we're talking about. So any potential hints would be for the Oct. Releases and what will be featured in the Oct WD.)
Personaly I think the Dark Angel's artwork is just meant for pimping the new DA models that are out with the starter set.
The Dark Angels page at the end of the White Dwarf says 'The Battle Rages On!' This is a direct reference to the battle report that will be in the next White Dwarf. Stop speculating. This is what it is.
It is not that Dark Angels are next.
Let's face it, for the past couple months, the White Dwarf has not had hints into what's coming next, just vague pictures that hint at what will be in the next White Dwarf. The White Dwarf serves the White Dwarf, nothing else.
Relax, paint some models (I'm starting to paint up a new Chaos Marine squad) and keep playing games. We'll get a new Codex by October, it'll be hardback, and the Helbrute will be just as useful as other Dreadnoughts.
drbored wrote: The Dark Angels page at the end of the White Dwarf says 'The Battle Rages On!' This is a direct reference to the battle report that will be in the next White Dwarf. Stop speculating. This is what it is.
, and the Helbrute will be just as useful as other Dreadnoughts.
The Crimson Slaughter
Formerly the Space Marine Chapter known as the Crimson Sabres, the Crimson Slaughter were declared renegade in M41
I hope everybody's looking forward to Codex: More Renegades!
The Crimson Slaughter are a good kind of renegade though imo. Not like Constantinius or Red Corsairs, these guys are children of Chaos. They've sold themselves to the Warp and are true Chaos Marines. They're not of the main legions, yes, but they're still the definitive CSM.
I think it would be a good idea for GW to expand some non-Legion CSM anyway. Purge, Red Corsairs, Sons of Malice, Violators, and now the Crimson Slaughter specifically.
The Crimson Slaughter are a good kind of renegade though imo. Not like Constantinius or Red Corsairs, these guys are children of Chaos. They've sold themselves to the Warp and are true Chaos Marines.
Let me remind you that they originally went to the Eye so they wouldn't kill innocent people
The Crimson Slaughter
Formerly the Space Marine Chapter known as the Crimson Sabres, the Crimson Slaughter were declared renegade in M41
I hope everybody's looking forward to Codex: More Renegades!
The Crimson Slaughter are a good kind of renegade though imo. Not like Constantinius or Red Corsairs, these guys are children of Chaos. They've sold themselves to the Warp and are true Chaos Marines. They're not of the main legions, yes, but they're still the definitive CSM.
I think that renegade chapters are crucial to continue the CSM fluff. After 10,000 years of fighting the long war the original CSM that were alive during the HH are fewer and fewer so there has to be renegade chapters to be more Marines to continue the long war.
I think that renegade chapters are crucial to continue the CSM fluff. After 10,000 years of fighting the long war the original CSM that were alive during the HH are fewer and fewer so there has to be renegade chapters to be more Marines to continue the long war.
Its a vicious cycle.
Chaos Marines do recruit from daemon worlds, the slaves in their ships, and other sources of manpower. They even harvest genessed from loyalist chapters they defeat in battle.
Ironically enough, successful warbands should increase in size very fast. They ignore all the 'purity and resistance to corruption' requirements loyalists adhere to that hamper chapter growth, and cannobalize geneseed for faster increase. The less scrupulous even resort to cloning to speed things up.
Not saying it necessarily happens that way in the fluff, but it makes sense. Renegade chapters would probably help more bringing in ships and material than bodies.
The Crimson Slaughter
Formerly the Space Marine Chapter known as the Crimson Sabres, the Crimson Slaughter were declared renegade in M41
I hope everybody's looking forward to Codex: More Renegades!
The Crimson Slaughter are a good kind of renegade though imo. Not like Constantinius or Red Corsairs, these guys are children of Chaos. They've sold themselves to the Warp and are true Chaos Marines. They're not of the main legions, yes, but they're still the definitive CSM.
I think that renegade chapters are crucial to continue the CSM fluff. After 10,000 years of fighting the long war the original CSM that were alive during the HH are fewer and fewer so there has to be renegade chapters to be more Marines to continue the long war.
Its a vicious cycle.
Some speculated some have retained thier pre-heresy numbers mainly the Alpha legion and night lords. the only ones that are near death are the world eaters and the emperors children.
Sephyr wrote: They ignore all the 'purity and resistance to corruption' requirements loyalists adhere to that hamper chapter growth, and cannobalize geneseed for faster increase. The less scrupulous even resort to cloning to speed things up.
All of which cause massive quality loss in new recruits, and CSM are as stringent as loyalists about who gets power armour and who doesn't.
Sephyr wrote: They ignore all the 'purity and resistance to corruption' requirements loyalists adhere to that hamper chapter growth, and cannobalize geneseed for faster increase. The less scrupulous even resort to cloning to speed things up.
All of which cause massive quality loss in new recruits, and CSM are as stringent as loyalists about who gets power armour and who doesn't.
Not filtering out the evil, psychotic and greedy hardly impacts the general morale and style of the traitor leagions. Neither does stealing geneseed. Overall, I believe the difference is already somewhat represented in the lack of ATSKNF and combat tactcs. This is a bit of a derail, though.
Sephyr wrote: Not filtering out the evil, psychotic and greedy hardly impacts the general morale and style of the traitor leagions. Neither does stealing geneseed.
These traits are irrelevant. What I'm saying is that despite CSM having more recruits and maybe even more genseed samples, the overall lower quality of both is going to curb the replacement rate of any renegade warband or legion.
Is there anything about whether Typhus still automatically makes successful casts?
If not, what's his point value worth? Rumor was his point value was the same and he wasn't gaining anything other than Psycher level 2. If that's it and he looses auto cast then I'll be so pissed. I mean that is not an even trade at all.
Is there anything about whether Typhus still automatically makes successful casts?
If not, what's his point value worth? Rumor was his point value was the same and he wasn't gaining anything other than Psycher level 2. If that's it and he looses auto cast then I'll be so pissed. I mean that is not an even trade at all.
well his autocasts were limited to only his base powers...maybe he get a bonus with nurgle based psychic powers.
The Nurgle powers might end up being a lot more potent than they are currently, so having two of them (or two rulebook ones) might make him worth his cost even without the ability to auto cast.
new book.
