Also from what they read about him ... he gets a AP2 holocost that ignores cover ... i think he will be good.

Got a theory for ya. Just a theory mind. Apologies if this has already been said elsewhere.

I reckon Chaos will get a release on the 22nd / 23rd September. Remember the Ultimate Battle of Ultimate Destiny that GW did? It was an instore character painting competition, culminating in a royal rumble of each entered miniature. The aim of the event was to decide the theme of Games Day UK, and evil won out. I can't see that they'd expend all that effort without it resulting in a big release, and the follow up race to the starter box set would be a pretty big deal. I mean, it's gotta be more than a load of posters hasn't it!

 kenzosan wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

Is there anything about whether Typhus still automatically makes successful casts?

If not, what's his point value worth? Rumor was his point value was the same and he wasn't gaining anything other than Psycher level 2. If that's it and he looses auto cast then I'll be so pissed. I mean that is not an even trade at all.

Isn't he suppose to make Cultists into plague Zombies? Give them FNP, Fearless, Fear and whatnot?

Hashulaman wrote:

 kenzosan wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

Is there anything about whether Typhus still automatically makes successful casts?

If not, what's his point value worth? Rumor was his point value was the same and he wasn't gaining anything other than Psycher level 2. If that's it and he looses auto cast then I'll be so pissed. I mean that is not an even trade at all.

Isn't he suppose to make Cultists into plague Zombies? Give them FNP, Fearless, Fear and whatnot?

There's that, too.

Curious wrote:

Hashulaman wrote:

 kenzosan wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

Is there anything about whether Typhus still automatically makes successful casts?

If not, what's his point value worth? Rumor was his point value was the same and he wasn't gaining anything other than Psycher level 2. If that's it and he looses auto cast then I'll be so pissed. I mean that is not an even trade at all.

Isn't he suppose to make Cultists into plague Zombies? Give them FNP, Fearless, Fear and whatnot?

There's that, too.

And has his own warlord trait from what I've heard.

Must resist urge to make Typhus army with corrupted Sisters of Nurgle and hordes of Zombies.

 Amaya wrote:
Must resist urge to make Typhus army with corrupted Sisters of Nurgle and hordes of Zombies.

Why would you resist that? That's awesome.

Its expensive, that's a reason

NOW ALL WE NEED ARE LEAKED PICTURES

(*HINT HINT* GW PEOPLE)

 progreen10 wrote:
NOW ALL WE NEED ARE LEAKED PICTURES

(*HINT HINT* GW PEOPLE)

This...

We need some new rumors about the codex itself! Maybe some will pop up this week now that the furor over the new starter is fading.

Considering the WD is supposed to drop before the last week of the month (just like this month) I wouldn't expect anything til a week earlier; IE: Two weeks from now.

Cool information, though it looks like the Hellbrute is just an unnecessarily re-named Dreadnought that's going to be largely useless in 6E and certainly so within the context of the starter set sadly.

A bit early for that. Some rumors had it having the It Will Not Die! rule, which could help a bit.

I hope so, that would be nice, as otherwise now it just looks like they re-named chaos dreads for kicks and giggles and put a useless unit with a big AT gun in a starter set where it's the only vehicle and the opposing army can destroy it quickly with ease.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the chaos codex to come out to be sure, I really hope I'm wrong on my initial assessment there.

Helbrutes are dandy but I bet the cc oblits (if real) will be the real winners.

Strength 5 pfists, lclaws or power weapons? 2+/5+*?

Strength 10 non-S&P unit, yes please.

Tomb Kings Ushabti, goooooooo!

The only thing worth noticing is that the cultist champion has a str 4 shotgun, and not str 3 like the IG shotguns.

Hold everything! The Chosen have 2 attacks base!

 Vaktathi wrote:
I hope so, that would be nice, as otherwise now it just looks like they re-named chaos dreads for kicks and giggles and put a useless unit with a big AT gun in a starter set where it's the only vehicle and the opposing army can destroy it quickly with ease.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the chaos codex to come out to be sure, I really hope I'm wrong on my initial assessment there.

I'm going to point out that if you play Island of blood stright out of the starter set with the rules given, the High Elfs have a distinct advantage. Well the High Elfs are still listed with their USR's like always strikes 1st, the skavan do not get their special rules. I can't remember the name of the rules, but bassicly the ones that allows your heros to lead from the back of a unit, and the one that gives you a better LD with the more guys you have in the unit.

It's very easy for a High Elf unit to just hit a skavan block, kill a bunch of guys, and then the Skavan unit breaks and get's run down.


So Chaos could be suffering the same problem here. The force isn't actually good, unless you buy the codex that gives you the rest of the rules. The only problem is they haven't actully released said codex yet.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hold everything! The Chosen have 2 attacks base!

Correct. In the current CSM Codex, Chosen only have 1 base, with the champion having 2. If Chosen get 2 base, then that means 3 with close combat weapon and pistol, and 4 on the charge, and potentially 5 attacks for the champion if he gets +1 attack over his squad (and hopefully +1 leadership too).

Not too shabby, especially if you can take tons of power weapons. Now if we can give them special rules like Rage and Furious Charge through the Marks and Icons, they become a squad that gets 6 attacks on the charge at str 5.

Finally. Useful.

2 attacks base chosen yay!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait... On the Chaos overview it shows the Helbrute as 3 attacks, and in the roster it says 2. Woo!

Chosen were always useful, but not in the cc role. The ability to take a small outflanking squad armed with a ton of melta/plasma in a drive by rhino is quite good.


And personally with the new edition I still prefer them in the shooty role.

Fair enough, just thinking about special melee kitted-out chosen. 1 attack currently is blah for that. I used to use 5 Plasmagun Chosen as well.

Glad to see the Ravenwing biker's extra attack went to a good cause. I'm glad the Chosen got the upgrade to a proper veteran statline even if the Ravenwing didn't. The Chosen needed the boost.

Vaktathi wrote:Cool information, though it looks like the Hellbrute is just an unnecessarily re-named Dreadnought that's going to be largely useless in 6E and certainly so within the context of the starter set sadly.

I don't know, it serves its use. It teaches all the unindoctrinated chaos players the lesson we've all learned over the last few years... leave the Chaos dread at home.

Hellbrute would be a good start for an Obliterator conversion or Daemon Prince. Using its actual rules is a bit of a waste.

Hellbrutes are going for £10 on ebay, so still cheaper than actual oblits amaya


On the plus side, im liking the more combat orientated chaos.
Takes me back to the warm place where my prince ran about with a glaive and a ton of other stuff tearing through units

Might mean i can finally run a zerker army again!
This time with some options though lol.


CC oblits seem interesting.
Ill be honest, i havent read through every page, but whats the ruling on them?
Cant see anything about a higher initiative or S&P being removed, which if thats the case, they are pretty much dead before swinging.

I dunno, if the Hellbrute gets access to the butcher cannon then that might be a worthwhile investment...

 Vaktathi wrote:
Cool information, though it looks like the Hellbrute is just an unnecessarily re-named Dreadnought that's going to be largely useless in 6E and certainly so within the context of the starter set sadly.

The rumors state in the new codex, helbrutes will be able to use twin linked reaper autocanons or a butcher canon, and the crazed rule is going to be changed to "fire at closest enemy twice, or closest friendly if there is no enemy in range"

So if that is true, it will be pretty useful IMO

 Jackal wrote:
Hellbrutes are going for £10 on ebay, so still cheaper than actual oblits amaya

Exactly and they look MUCH better. Someone good or decent with GS could turn a Hellbrute into a beastly Obliterator.

drbored wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hold everything! The Chosen have 2 attacks base!

Correct. In the current CSM Codex, Chosen only have 1 base, with the champion having 2. If Chosen get 2 base, then that means 3 with close combat weapon and pistol, and 4 on the charge, and potentially 5 attacks for the champion if he gets +1 attack over his squad (and hopefully +1 leadership too).

He doesn't get an extra attack and his Ld is still 9. It's right there in the picture

 aka_mythos wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Cool information, though it looks like the Hellbrute is just an unnecessarily re-named Dreadnought that's going to be largely useless in 6E and certainly so within the context of the starter set sadly.

I don't know, it serves its use. It teaches all the unindoctrinated chaos players the lesson we've all learned over the last few years... leave the Chaos dread at home.

Hahaha indeed.


Which is sad because Chaos has such beautiful dread models through FW

 Amaya wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
Hellbrutes are going for £10 on ebay, so still cheaper than actual oblits amaya

Exactly and they look MUCH better. Someone good or decent with GS could turn a Hellbrute into a beastly Obliterator.

Ignoring the fact that it's entirely too large? It's big, even for a Dreadnought, and Oblits are only a little bigger than Terminators.

Why would one ignore such a completely relevant factoid about Hellbrute to Oblit conversations!

Even tho it makes no sense from a size standpoint, do it anyway

Who cares if it is "too big"? It would look awesome.

Probably because models should be the correct scale or it looks really out of place. Sure you could use 40k space marines for Epic if you "think" it's cool.. doesn't mean others will. It's not even on the same base size and in a game of true LOS people are going to call foul of you for using a very wrongly sized model when the correct model exists or a reasonable conversion

Goresaw wrote:
Chosen were always useful, but not in the cc role. The ability to take a small outflanking squad armed with a ton of melta/plasma in a drive by rhino is quite good.


And personally with the new edition I still prefer them in the shooty role.

Expect in the Rules for choosen is says spefficly that if you take a Transport for them, they lose the Infiltrate rule. Their for they also lose the outflank rule.... So sorry to break it to you, but Choosen have NEVER been able to do a Outflanking rhino Drive by.

=/

The unit in truth was just paying a large premium to put 4 meltaguns in a normal CSM squad at that point.... Every time I've ever tried adding Choosen to a list, I quickly learned you better off buying normal CSM, and using your points for more useful things like oblits...

I love the new allie rules, since they give me a reason to not bring 9 oblits every game to compete with Grey Knight and Space Wolf Cheese.
:3

Well, if worst comes to worst, that hellbrute will make an excellent start for my IW daemonprince... Just going to have to make some "wings" resembling the propulsion system on the FW Blightdrones...

//Calle

 Kirasu wrote:
Probably because models should be the correct scale or it looks really out of place. Sure you could use 40k space marines for Epic if you "think" it's cool.. doesn't mean others will. It's not even on the same base size and in a game of true LOS people are going to call foul of you for using a very wrongly sized model when the correct model exists or a reasonable conversion

Would it not be possible to do it for true scale? Not sure on exact sizes but might geut away with it in friendly matches.

Lockark wrote:

Goresaw wrote:
Chosen were always useful, but not in the cc role. The ability to take a small outflanking squad armed with a ton of melta/plasma in a drive by rhino is quite good.


And personally with the new edition I still prefer them in the shooty role.

Expect in the Rules for choosen is says spefficly that if you take a Transport for them, they lose the Infiltrate rule. Their for they also lose the outflank rule.... So sorry to break it to you, but Choosen have NEVER been able to do a Outflanking rhino Drive by.

=/

The unit in truth was just paying a large premium to put 4 meltaguns in a normal CSM squad at that point.... Every time I've ever tried adding Choosen to a list, I quickly learned you better off buying normal CSM, and using your points for more useful things like oblits...

I love the new allie rules, since they give me a reason to not bring 9 oblits every game to compete with Grey Knight and Space Wolf Cheese.
:3

were in the rules for chosen says that, they can take 5 meltas and outflank

 Jag_Calle wrote:
Well, if worst comes to worst, that hellbrute will make an excellent start for my IW daemonprince... Just going to have to make some "wings" resembling the propulsion system on the FW Blightdrones...

//Calle

I personally prefer converting them into Nurgle Daemon Princes. I don't really care the official GW one. Something like Typhus on steroids would be cool. I love the little vents on his back. Favorite CSM model.

 Amaya wrote:

 Jag_Calle wrote:
Well, if worst comes to worst, that hellbrute will make an excellent start for my IW daemonprince... Just going to have to make some "wings" resembling the propulsion system on the FW Blightdrones...

//Calle

I personally prefer converting them into Nurgle Daemon Princes. I don't really care the official GW one. Something like Typhus on steroids would be cool. I love the little vents on his back. Favorite CSM model.

I love the Typhus model aswell, but there's something that speaks to me with the official GW nurgle daemon prince. I think the hellbrute is too machiney for a nurgle DP, but that could be a matter of vision and GS skill, and I'd lived to be proven wrong in this case

I'm glad to see chosen get real vet stats, as they're one of the reasons I'm leaning towards IW as a second csm army beside my Deathguard, though that might change if possessed get new models that are equally beutiful...

I'm getting a bunch of nurgle daemon allies for my DG, and they could form the core for a daemon ally contingent for wordbearers aswell, whereas with IW I'd go heavy IG. Artillery pieces and chenkow+conscripts to waste enemy bullets oh, and special weapon squads with demo-charges for that extra suicidal UMPH

Cyvash wrote:

were in the rules for chosen says that, they can take 5 meltas and outflank

Sadly I'm in the middle of a move, so can't give you a word for word quote of the rule. But in their entry is a part that says if they take a Rhino transport, they lose the Infiltrate special rule.

With out the Infiltrate rule, they can't outflank.

Agien. Sorry I can't give the exact quote/Pg.# for the rule ATM. My codex is packed in one of these boxes somewhere. lol

No such rule appears on pg94 in their army list entry nor on pg 27 (Chosen Entry) or pg 42 (Rhino entry).

I thought it said they lose infiltrate too if in a rhino but just checked now and can't find that anywhere. Checked the FAQ too but it looks like Chosen in a Rhino can indeed outflank. Perhaps I dreamt it. Maybe not with the new 'dex though unfortunately. Looks like they'll make nice close combat specialists with two attacks and loads of power weapons though. Wonder if you'll be able to equip them with jump packs/wings? That'd be nice. Points heavy but nice.

The infiltrate SR specifically says a unit keeps its Infiltrate/outflank if it deploys in a DT.

 pretre wrote:
A bit early for that. Some rumors had it having the It Will Not Die! rule, which could help a bit.

Let's hope so, otherwise the Helbrute, Chosen and Cultists are just as dull as the previous 'Codex'.

Just had a look and if anyone's still interested it's in the 5th edition brb usr's chapter that it says infiltrators lose the ability if they're deployed in a transport. So in 6th edition it's fine.

The dread will have fun wacky marks to play with. The crazed rule keeps it from being dependable, which is its biggest problem, being more expensive in early rumors than most dreads.

I hope chosen are more interesting than a squad full of sergeants...

Im hoping Fabius's enhanced warriors gets better and for more units to be able to buy it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
A bit early for that. Some rumors had it having the It Will Not Die! rule, which could help a bit.

Let's hope so, otherwise the Helbrute, Chosen and Cultists are just as dull as the previous 'Codex'.

Actually there was never a rumor of the Helbrute getting IWND. It's the Dragon, Daemon Engines (which the Helbrute is not) and Defilers.

 Vhalyar wrote:
Actually there was never a rumor of the Helbrute getting IWND. It's the Dragon, Daemon Engines (which the Helbrute is not) and Defilers.

Actually, there was. Here

 Vhalyar wrote:


Actually there was never a rumor of the Helbrute getting IWND. It's the Dragon, Daemon Engines (which the Helbrute is not) and Defilers.

Isn't one of the stronger rumours floating about at the moment being that the Chaos Dreadnought is being replaced by 3 daemon engines - of which the helbrute is indeed one of them?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Isn't one of the stronger rumours floating about at the moment being that the Chaos Dreadnought is being replaced by 3 daemon engines - of which the helbrute is indeed one of them?

That sounds more like wish listing than an actual rumour.

I do remember reading the demon engines thing somewhere but cant remember if it was 3.

 pretre wrote:
A bit early for that. Some rumors had it having the It Will Not Die! rule, which could help a bit.

This is just for the single player scenario in the starter kit, where Kranon has to shut it down to stop it killing all of the CSM's. It doesn't have this rule in general play / outside of the single player game.

Wait, so it has that special rule in the starter box?

Wait, there is a single player game?

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Wait, there is a single player game?

In the starter box, there is supposed to be a scenario for you to play by your lonesome.

Seriously I have two beautifully converted chaos dreads and I ve ordered one FW nurgle dread and wait for it and now you say to me that I maybe can't field them? Seriouslyyy????? Oh btw check my link bellow and leave a comment I m gonna update with many many things this thread soon.

No, no one is saying that at all.

Wait for the codex when it will be made quite clear that your dreads are just called hellbrutes and work largely the same.

Chaos Land Raider: 220pts

Wonder why SM must pay 250-ish points for the same thing.

And wonder why SM devastators are the only heavy infantry option of all MEQ codexes that is overpriced and never used.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Chaos Land Raider: 220pts

Wonder why SM must pay 250-ish points for the same thing.

And wonder why SM devastators are the only heavy infantry option of all MEQ codexes that is overpriced and never used.

The reason SMs pay more is for PotMS. I'm pretty sure the BT codex still has it listed as 30 points. 220+30=250. And somehow, most people don't take CSM landraiders...I guess PotMS is worth its 30 point upgrade.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Chaos Land Raider: 220pts

Wonder why SM must pay 250-ish points for the same thing.

Because Space Marines get Power of the Machine Spirit.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Chaos Land Raider: 220pts

Wonder why SM must pay 250-ish points for the same thing.

And wonder why SM devastators are the only heavy infantry option of all MEQ codexes that is overpriced and never used.

First part already awnsered. Sm Devs are not used much because they are expensive for what they can do and SM players get a number of good options to replace them. They are overcosted because they were the first and their codex has not yet been updated. Im sure when it does they will get something good.

I used to use one CSM LR on my 5th Ed lists at 1750+++.
Found it back then amazingly beautiful to pun in there a CL with a DW and 9 zerkers!
Put with it possession so it's unstoppable and it becomes enemies target priority giving your rhinos time to breath a bit!
But bellow 1750 is a mess of points...

Also.. Faeit is saying his anonymous source claimes Pre-Orders for Chaos on the 15(of Sept) with release on 22nd along with the new WD.
Here is the original...
http://natfka.blogspot.no/2012/08/release-rumors-breaking-mold.html#more

Yeah just read that, would sure be a nice surprise

Perhaps would explain why there are no points/rules in starter set? We really wouldnt have to wait long.

 Nicorex wrote:
Also.. Faeit is saying his anonymous source claimes Pre-Orders for Chaos on the 15(of Sept) with release on 22nd along with the new WD.
Here is the original...
http://natfka.blogspot.no/2012/08/release-rumors-breaking-mold.html#more

For those who don't want to click:
http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/release-rumors-breaking-mold.html#more

There is a lot of confusion lately on what is going to be released and when. Even though most rumor sources around the web are still saying September, there is a lot of disbelief, so hopefully this will shed a little light on the subject, as well as put forth a possible date for the next codex release.


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
_______ hasn't changed his statement that Pre orders are up on the 15th for release on the 22nd along with the white dwarf about them.

I could imagine the WD and Pre Orders to both be the 22nd but he was very specific and said that they're "breaking the mold" to fit in DAngels.

And one more:
http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/chaos-marines-clarifications-to.html#more

So yesterday we saw some of the pics regarding the rules from the starter set. While they were the basic rules, there was some confusion on the hellbrute and its number of base attacks, as well as what is going on with Chosen and their leadership. This set clears those issues up, and gives some more insight to the upcoming Chaos Marine Codex.


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
Chaos will not spend long without in-game rules for Cultists and the Hellbrute. Both are included in the new codex. No rules supplement is coming in the October White Dwarf. Figure it out.

Hellbrutes are 2 attack base, +1 for each close combat weapon they take, meaning 3 with one CCW (such as the one in the DV Box) and 4 if you take two.

Chosen are all, in effect, "Champions," they don't have a Champion Champion, that would be a Chaos Lord. Hence why it's 2 attacks base.

On the whole, Leadership has gone down here and there for Chaos Marines to represent the fact that they think for themselves and believe that running away and saving your ass is the better part of valour.

There are ways around this, through Marks and even the presence of Characters (who are Fearless and confer it in a bubble), because no one wants to piss off their Chaos Lord.

The DV box set doesn't complicate the game with points, as it pre-assigns all of the models on a per scenerio basis.

Everyone needs to calm down and consider that you "got the boxed set a few weeks early" in essence, not that the Chaos codex is "a few weeks late."

If you like the concept that Chaos Space Marines are malignant forces, tainted and changed by the warp and their dark worship hellbent on nothing but seeing the galaxy burn through whatever is their favorite means, you will be very happy with the new codex.

If you wanted evil space marines who are a tactical spear tip strike force, then you will be disappointed.

The new chaos is an evolved version of what you had before, and nothing like space marines except being WS/BS/S/T 4 in power armor.

Ahhh, another "next month" release drop

We shall see. I'm done being excited, and would rather be surprised!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But.. its "this month".

Interesting. but meh.

 Nicorex wrote:
Also.. Faeit is saying his anonymous source claimes Pre-Orders for Chaos on the 15(of Sept) with release on 22nd along with the new WD.
Here is the original...
http://natfka.blogspot.no/2012/08/release-rumors-breaking-mold.html#more

If this is true, that means their won't be any white dwarf to go with this untill well after the fact (I.E.Oct). So we might not get any leeks what so ever for this release, since their won't be any white dwarf to leek ahead of the launch.
O.o

Well this is going to suck....

Looks to me like Faeit has been moving the release date by 1 week every week for a while now.

If it is the case that chaos appear on the 15th (I hope) there will be a video teaser in the coming days no doubt. I am sure GW want people to know that their wallets are about to become empty.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looks to me like Faeit has been moving the release date by 1 week every week for a while now.

Yeah I stopped counting and am just going to go with his first 'rumor' for the tracker.

 pretre wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looks to me like Faeit has been moving the release date by 1 week every week for a while now.

Yeah I stopped counting and am just going to go with his first 'rumor' for the tracker.

Natfka (Faeit is the name of the site ) doesn't directly generate rumors. He just posts things that come his way. Some of the people giving him information seem genuine enough (like Grant), other times it seems fairly dubious. Can't really 'track' him.

 Brother SRM wrote:


via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

.....

If you like the concept that Chaos Space Marines are malignant forces, tainted and changed by the warp and their dark worship hellbent on nothing but seeing the galaxy burn through whatever is their favorite means, you will be very happy with the new codex.

If you wanted evil space marines who are a tactical spear tip strike force, then you will be disappointed.

The new chaos is an evolved version of what you had before, and nothing like space marines except being WS/BS/S/T 4 in power armor.

This sounds rather discouraging. "Don't expect your army to be effective or have good synergy. If you want metal-looking, cackling morons for Imperials to shoot at, though, this is your book!"

Also nice to know Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords and the Black Legion don't know a thing about tactical strike operations.

 Vhalyar wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looks to me like Faeit has been moving the release date by 1 week every week for a while now.

Yeah I stopped counting and am just going to go with his first 'rumor' for the tracker.

Natfka (Faeit is the name of the site ) doesn't directly generate rumors. He just posts things that come his way. Some of the people giving him information seem genuine enough (like Grant), other times it seems fairly dubious. Can't really 'track' him.

If he posts something without a source or listed a anonymous, he gets tracked. If he doesn't want I to be a monger, simply post sources.

I wonder if cultists will get chimeras, or will they have to walk every where.

Chimeras for Cultists!?! No, just no, still need allied guard for those

 quilava1 wrote:
Chimeras for Cultists!?! No, just no, still need allied guard for those

Allies can't get in each others transport vehicles.

Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

If its real it isn't official. As in its not using the standard 40k rules styling. The grammar's incorrect ("May include up to 20 more cultists" instead of "additional"), and lines like "one cultist may have the glory of carrying..." aren't something you find in a unit selection. The one in ten having a shotgun seems weird (Imperial Armour ones don't have the option at all, or have them available for all), oh and charging 5pts for one with the champion is clear nonsense. I mean they are similar to the existing renegade rules, but there's silly things in there that hint at it being fake. If they are included as a unit then I would imagine they would be similar to this though (either that or GW's producing shoddy rulesets these days).

Correct grammar is a standard of GW style?

...As in codex entries have an established format, that one doesn't follow it. Like I said, you wouldn't find such fanciful lines like such and such a unit having the glory of carrying a banner for 10pts, it would just be "one cultist may carry a Banner of Chaos Glory for 10pts". =p

Wyrmalla, you missed another key thing
The unit may take grenades for 10 points.

Cool, 1 point each, now what if i buy 20 more members for that unit?
Only 0.33 points for grenades each

Usually they would charge a rate per model, unless the unit cant gain additional models like sang guard.

I do agree though, the structuring looks weird, but take into account that depending on the author, wording changes in entries a ton.
That has caused constant issues with people comparing the wording between dex's and how things were written and the context used.

I thought we were getting the same writer as the last edition? Either way, those kind of discrepancies are a little too much for it to be the official version of the rules (if they are real at all). I'd think that even if they were an early version of the rules, they'd still follow some sort of logic (ie points values making sense), or at least use the same program that's used to make the other codex entries...

...And yeah, if they only have a 6+ save then they would probably be available as a 10-20 or 20-40 sized unit like other similar ones (ie conscripts, workers rabble, miners, grots, kroot...).

I hope they aren't doing unit costs that way. The "Pay x points for y people and a unit champion" method annoys me.

What's wrong with just putting a min/max unit size and how many points each model is?

=/ We'll have to see if they adopt the old format for unit pricing or not really. The current one's "pay x for the unit, then y for each individual model subsequently". I don't see much of an issue with that right now as it makes initially working out unit points costs easy. It does however cause issues when you're working out victory points, or only wanting x amount of models in a squad (ie it'd be silly to only be able to take 5 or ten man squads sizes like the Marine codex, as it wouldn't allow for god specific numbers for fluffy players). With units that are meant to be large I think they'll use this format (ie cultists probably have a minimum size of ten), whilst Chaos Marines will probably be charged individually (...or minimum squad 5 men, 15pts for each additional man).

1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault. People post bogus sometimes. To 'track' Natfka is ridiculous and he's even said so, which is why he specifies that he gets his information from anonymous sources.

If he had to name his sources, they wouldn't give him the information, and we wouldn't have the wealth of rumors that we get from his site.

Personally the whole idea of tracking people just to show when they're right or wrong about rumors from a game company seems petty and doesn't really seem to promote the idea of sharing information.

In short Pretre, relax. You seem to be taking this whole 'tracking' thing way too obsessively. He can't post sources because if he does, those sources won't give us the sweet information we crave.

2. To be fair, the first tidings of the Chaos Marine Codex were coming about before GW did a total revamp of their release schedule and decided to throw the Chaos Daemons into August instead of Chaos Marines. Since then, the August and September White Dwarfs really seemed forced, with little of this 'improvement' we keep hearing about. Once the Chaos Marines hit, I'm sure that the White Dwarf will be chock full of information that the publishers were holding back until their release.

Since then, yes, it has seemed like they keep getting pushed back, but that's how rumors go. I've since accepted it. In terms of timeline, most rumormongers are wrong most of the time. It's the CONTENT that we should really be focusing on. How useful will the cultists or Helbrute really be? What are the points levels? There's tons of CONTENT rumors out there that plenty of rumormongers have posted that we can have plenty of fun with, and as more rumors hit as we get closer, we'll see the true picture of Chaos.

3. This is ridiculous.. " This sounds rather discouraging. "Don't expect your army to be effective or have good synergy. If you want metal-looking, cackling morons for Imperials to shoot at, though, this is your book!"

Also nice to know Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords and the Black Legion don't know a thing about tactical strike operations."

Relax. The original poster that you were criticizing was telling us that we're getting a Chaos Marine Codex that IS NOT a copy-paste of the regular Space Marines, which is a joyous occasion! The current Chaos Marine Codex is bland, flavorless, and the fluff is bad and bland to boot. Getting a Codex that truly reflects the Chaos aspect of Chaos Marines is what we Chaos Marine players have been hoping for.

I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

4. The post of the cultist rules was a snapshot of a playtest ruleset, and Natfka himself said that the actual ruleset has changed since then. It was more a teaser than an actual 'this is what it's going to be', and in rough drafts like this, of course there will be errors.

That's why they're rough drafts.

drbored: I do highly agree on your 3rd point.
That comment was simply to suggest we arent getting marines with spikes, which if you ask me, if a massive result.

The idea that chaos is changing alot is great as there has allways been tons of aspects of a chaos army that sound great, but we dont get.

The idea of having a decent khornate army again is one that i like alot, and if i can have cultists that are foaming at the mouth as a soft shield, all the better.


Also, 2 things.

1: Dreads are not being replaced by hellbrutes.
Hells are simply a more crazy version (like a DC dread)

2: Chaos LR's are cheaper, but also lack PotMS and the same transport capacity

 Wyrmalla wrote:
...As in codex entries have an established format, that one doesn't follow it. Like I said, you wouldn't find such fanciful lines like such and such a unit having the glory of carrying a banner for 10pts, it would just be "one cultist may carry a Banner of Chaos Glory for 10pts". =p

I guess you missed the part where he says it's a playtest document, where I imagine the designers are not particularly zealous about getting the right spelling.

My only issue is why are we seeing something out of a playtest codex when we know the real one has been sent to printers a while ago.
The picture looks completely wrong also. The designers should be using a template document, so there's no reason for it to look so different.

0.o Why disagree with my point then say the same thing?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
=/ We'll have to see if they adopt the old format for unit pricing or not really. The current one's "pay x for the unit, then y for each individual model subsequently". I don't see much of an issue with that right now as it makes initially working out unit points costs easy. It does however cause issues when you're working out victory points, or only wanting x amount of models in a squad (ie it'd be silly to only be able to take 5 or ten man squads sizes like the Marine codex, as it wouldn't allow for god specific numbers for fluffy players). With units that are meant to be large I think they'll use this format (ie cultists probably have a minimum size of ten), whilst Chaos Marines will probably be charged individually (...or minimum squad 5 men, 15pts for each additional man).

they use that style for some ordered soldier armies like IG and C:SM but they chose not to use it for warrior armies like DE

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault.

True, but all of us listening to those predictions like to know how often they tend to come true. If it's a really low number, there's no point in listening anymore. If it's a fairly high number, then it's worth checking in from time to time. Knowing the librarian's name just lets us discuss those results unambiguously.

Essentially, we want to know if people with legitimate information use him to spread their information.

So what the heck is "Servants of Chaos" that's listed in the special rules?

In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

It' kinda clunky and arbitrary... Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Lockark wrote:
Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Might want to check again. No Heavy Flamer in there, just a normal one.

Lockark wrote:
In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

And can't the Champ start with an Autogun?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Lockark wrote:
Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Might want to check again. No Heavy Flamer in there, just a normal one.

Derp. Brain fart. But yah... I meant Flamer.
XD

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lockark wrote:
In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

And can't the Champ start with an Autogun?

It says he always starts with CCW/pistol, and can switch both for a Autogun or shotgun.

Wait... Isn't the leader of one of the cultists squads equipped with a shotgun and CCW? =/ Even if this are legit, they would have be be fairly early play test rules, for that contradiction to make scene. So at that point they might as well be a hoax.

Shotgun+CCW = identical rules than just a shotgun...

Interested to see what they finally do with the cultists, though I might not use many. My goal is to have a nice 1850pt list with the new book for a big tournament in Jan.

If I can get 2 units of 18 for a nice points cost and still have lots of Thousand Sons, it'll be bad news bears for lots of folks.

(that's right dan)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shotgun+CCW = identical rules than just a shotgun...

Yah, I know that

But the rules in the Starter box say that he has a Shotgun and CCW, the rules posted say he should only be listed with a shotgun. No not a CCW.

Just another sign this latest rumour smells fishy.

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault. People post bogus sometimes. To 'track' Natfka is ridiculous and he's even said so, which is why he specifies that he gets his information from anonymous sources.

Everyone has his sources. But it is good to know whether Natfka's and Darnok's sources are mostly wrong and Harry's sources mostly right.

Anyone hearing anything about the price of HVY weapons in ther terminator chosen units? And count?I'm wondering if Reapers will be good again?

I like their looks, they will make my Drag'o'don Wing *TM stand out.

 Jackal wrote:
Wyrmalla, you missed another key thing
The unit may take grenades for 10 points.

Cool, 1 point each, now what if i buy 20 more members for that unit?
Only 0.33 points for grenades each

Usually they would charge a rate per model, unless the unit cant gain additional models like sang guard.

I don't like it either, but Codex: Grey Knights has some flat cost "pay X/unit" rather than "X/model" upgrades for variably-sized units. Regrettably, this kind of sloppy writing may well be the studio's standard model from now on.

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

@drbored: there is functionally no difference between Harry saying posting rumors that he gets trough anonymous channels and natfka. Harry doesn't trybto distance himself though he just posts what he hears. I'm not faulting natfka for posting but he is a monger by doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault. People post bogus sometimes. To 'track' Natfka is ridiculous and he's even said so, which is why he specifies that he gets his information from anonymous sources.

Everyone has his sources. But it is good to know whether Natfka's and Darnok's sources are mostly wrong and Harry's sources mostly right.

Or I could have read the next page and just said "what kroothawk said".

 Sephyr wrote:

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

Phil Kelly isn't to far off from broken either, half of the space wolf dex is unused for a reason, and his Eldar used to be Gamebreaking with tri-falcon. I'm more worried that we'll be stuck with a dex where only two or three units are viable and the ones that are viable are kinda OP.

I just hope sorcerer spam is still viable..

Too early to tell, but I bet there will be no way to have ML:2 on Troops

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

Phil Kelly isn't to far off from broken either, half of the space wolf dex is unused for a reason, and his Eldar used to be Gamebreaking with tri-falcon. I'm more worried that we'll be stuck with a dex where only two or three units are viable and the ones that are viable are kinda OP.

In 5th Edition at least, the vast majority of the Codex was viable (the Sky & Swiftclaws, Iron Priest and WGBL being the only rubbish ones IMHO), its just that Grey Hunters, Rune Priests, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard and Thunderwolves were clearly the best units. All others in between were still viable IMHO.
But hey, best not turn another thread into a discussion of Codex writers...

I'm personally more apprehensive than excited about the new CSM 'dex.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Looks great, looks fantastic! A squad of 30 cultists for 100 points...I'll take two, thank you very much! Hopefully the servant of Chaos rules means that they can be fired upon in close combat.
Alternatively, 30 cultists with autoguns and 3 heavy stubbers for 115 points will put out a good amount of firepower for a very cheap unit. If the point costs remain similar I will definitely be taking three of said units instead.

I'm really looking forward to using cultists as long as the final product is similar to these playtest rules.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Looks great, looks fantastic! A squad of 30 cultists for 100 points...I'll take two, thank you very much! Hopefully the servant of Chaos rules means that they can be fired upon in close combat.
Alternatively, 30 cultists with autoguns and 3 heavy stubbers for 115 points will put out a good amount of firepower for a very cheap unit. If the point costs remain similar I will definitely be taking three of said units instead.

I'm really looking forward to using cultists as long as the final product is similar to these playtest rules.

And if not, you can always use them as cheap "food" for demonic possessed vehicles to devour.

In 5th Edition at least, the vast majority of the Codex was viable (the Sky & Swiftclaws, Iron Priest and WGBL being the only rubbish ones IMHO), its just that Grey Hunters, Rune Priests, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard and Thunderwolves were clearly the best units. All others in between were still viable IMHO.

True enough, but I really don't want chaos becoming the go to "Spam" book where we see a ton of lists near 100% alike due to people jumping on that wagon.

That's going to happen regardless. Bandwagoners gonna bangwagon, and all that.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Lots of comments on the rules but no one has posted the important stuff - the contents of the cultist box:

"Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword."

Tim

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's going to happen regardless. Bandwagoners gonna bangwagon, and all that.

Aye, but you still have to hate it, especially if you get called a band-wagoner even though you played the army before the rerelease...
that happened to my after the necron release... annoyed me to no end

Not this bandwagoner nonsense again. Seriously, who cares? Does it hurt you if someone else is playing an army you happen to like?

Apparently, yes. If you weren't already playing an army when they got updated then you're not allowed to play them when the new book comes out.

It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

UltraPrime wrote:
Not this bandwagoner nonsense again. Seriously, who cares? Does it hurt you if someone else is playing an army you happen to like?

No. It's just a point of pride. A lot of people identify with their armies and take it as a personal insult when people jump on board simply because it's the newest (possibly) b0rkenest thing in the game at the moment.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

More like that's what everyone assumes is usually the case. It's been proven before that not every army that comes out is automatically "broken", Tyranids and Dark Eldar being good examples...everyone got fethed over in those two examples, both people who had been playing for years and people wanting to start new armies (I personally gave up on Tyranids after the last codex, I've tried to start them up twice and I don't think I EVER will now because the last codex was just that bad). Even if it were the case though, who's to blame for that one, the guys who want to win with the army most capable, or GW who deliberately plan their releases this way to maximize sales (which seems an odd thing to do if supposedly all their money comes from "craft hobbyists" who collect but don't play, but hey, whatever)?

I'd blame GW, personally. Don't know why the players should be the ones to take responsibility for choices GW made.

I am actually looking forward to the Daemon Engines most of all - cant wait to see more rumours/pics about these!

I try to field a fluffy Iron Warriors army so it is highly unlikely i would ever user any Raptors (even if they are awesome) or even Bikers...i might even avoid the CC Oblits tbh.

Anyone who has played Chaos for a while will most likely have a solid base of CSM models that can be readily/easily converted.

I might get some Cultists but i am leaning more towards guardsmen for some squishy allies instead (the ability to bring in a Bassie or 3 is attractive as well) - we'll have to see.

I just want a new codex so I can finish converting my army. I was converting a bunch of Death Company into badass looking Raptors, I'm in the middle of a beastly Nurgle demon prince with big Balrogg wings.. and some death guard from forgeworld. I decided to put it all on hold an instead im painting the rest of my khorne berzerkrers as I know they are probably still very viable.

I love the demon engines, the hellbrutes, the cultists, the chosen, Kranon.. It's all pretty sick looking and I hope that the Chosen are a style of armor for the future of Chaos.. It wouldnt be very hard for to blow a bunch of money on new CSM if they looked like that (even tho i have 50 plastic ones ).

I had a dream last night that there was a warp rift type deployment for chaos if you have a sorcerer.

Do dreams count as rumors?

Do you hear the voices too?

Added the cultist stuff to the tracking page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Faeit 212 from Anon wrote:There's been a big white dwarf overhaul for October but it's now finished and finalized.

Chaos Space Marines are available for pre-order on the 29th of September and for sale retail on the 6th of October.

They will be present at Games Day UK however, for anyone who wants to see / read but will not be for sale or pre-order even for people who are there in person.

The Horus Heresy Book 1 - Betrayal will share the same release dates, except that there will be a limited number for sale at Games Day.

The entire range of new models will be released on the 6th and 20th (Meaning that every unit entry in the book will have an available box set by the 20th. Some kits that are being redone in a year or more time are not included in what I mean when I say "entire range.")

This has been crunched to make room for another BIG 40k release in November.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adding to the tracker

Ahhh pushed back a week every time.

 Brometheus wrote:
Ahhh pushed back a week every time.

I should be a monger.

Dark Angels are coming out on either September 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, ad infiniti. Just keep pushing it out, I'll be right eventually.

^ you heard it here, folks.

 pretre wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Ahhh pushed back a week every time.

I should be a monger.

Dark Angels are coming out on either September 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, ad infiniti. Just keep pushing it out, I'll be right eventually.

Actually I have a rumour to share. I have it on good authority that 40k 7th edition will come out in summer 2016.

decoste007xt wrote:
I just want a new codex so I can finish converting my army.

This. I got the Allied Daemons squared away but there is a huge amount of ideas and conversions waiting for a new book and kits. I have plenty to work on but I always like to work on my Chaos to break the monotony of painting other batches of stuff. Eager to begin on god specific units with the new book.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Ahhh pushed back a week every time.

I should be a monger.

Dark Angels are coming out on either September 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, ad infiniti. Just keep pushing it out, I'll be right eventually.

Actually I have a rumour to share. I have it on good authority that 40k 7th edition will come out in summer 2016.

Nice. I'll do you one better. WHFB will be out Summer 2014.

So accord to the sheet faeit post icons will all cost the same?

Without knowing the mechanic/list for icons, we just don't know. I'm not sure there's any information on their costs for cultists, or basic CSMs, for that matter.

Credit to an anon poster on natfka comments section, they spotted the chaos battle force is no longer available on the GW site (UK).

maybe a mistake? Don't remember it being 80 quid, if it is intended which I hope, a little early to pull stuff for an October release?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440206a&prodId=prod1090186

Still up, but no add to basket option.

Just want the new book so i can see if its worth bringing in khornate allies for my daemons.

 Jackal wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440206a&prodId=prod1090186

Still up, but no add to basket option.

Just want the new book so i can see if its worth bringing in khornate allies for my daemons.

Strange, you can still add it to cart on the American site.

Some kits that are being redone in a year or more time are not included in what I mean when I say "entire range.")

What the hell does that mean?

anyone else notice the change to chosen in the Dark Vengeance quick reference?

they upped the base attacks from 1 to 2

Yep, along with the drop in LD.

We will see how they end up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on a funny note, my "other half" is telling me that Tau are overdue for an update as well as CSM

wtf, she doesn't even play much. awesome

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

More like that's what everyone assumes is usually the case. It's been proven before that not every army that comes out is automatically "broken", Tyranids and Dark Eldar being good examples...everyone got fethed over in those two examples, both people who had been playing for years and people wanting to start new armies
I'd blame GW, personally. Don't know why the players should be the ones to take responsibility for choices GW made.

And some people like me waited 13 years for a new DE book only to find it one of the least powerful armies when it first came out and quickly relegated back to the shelf after 6th came out. Great models though.

 Exergy wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

More like that's what everyone assumes is usually the case. It's been proven before that not every army that comes out is automatically "broken", Tyranids and Dark Eldar being good examples...everyone got fethed over in those two examples, both people who had been playing for years and people wanting to start new armies
I'd blame GW, personally. Don't know why the players should be the ones to take responsibility for choices GW made.

And some people like me waited 13 years for a new DE book only to find it one of the least powerful armies when it first came out and quickly relegated back to the shelf after 6th came out. Great models though.

de are though for me to fight there is 0ne de player who litterally deceipate every list from any army in our gaming group.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Some kits that are being redone in a year or more time are not included in what I mean when I say "entire range.")

What the hell does that mean?

Likely that the releases coming up will cover any new or missing options in the book. All the options will have models. Then next year would be more chaos kits, but insteadof new units, they will update old kits then, like making Cult Marines into plastic.

 Exergy wrote:

And some people like me waited 13 years for a new DE book only to find it one of the least powerful armies when it first came out and quickly relegated back to the shelf after 6th came out. Great models though.

DE are what they've always been, an army for those who really know what they're doing. DE perform average, just like the majority of 40k armies... but in the hands of a competent player they can do pretty well. In my poor playing hands DE tend to perform independently better than atleast 5 or 6 of the 14 armies... Some players really know how to play their army. I think DE are pretty balanced. If DE suffer its because they were done with the previous edition in mind more than the current, but I don't think they're one of the least "powerful" and I don't the edition change as had nearly as many adverse effects for them as with other armies. That said I think they're a fun army to play with and play against and thats more important than "power" anyways.

DE just got 6th at Nova Open. PRetty good for one of the least competitive armies.

 pretre wrote:
DE just got 6th at Nova Open. PRetty good for one of the least competitive armies.

Having one gimmicky build that performs well does not a balanced army make. Under that rationale Tau are just dandy, as they can still keep bouncing back in their vehicles and firing. Also, railguns and plasma!

DE is a neutered codex. Can it still scratch? Sure. Is it 70% bad or underperforming units after 6th? Certainly. Here's hoping CSM is made to last.

Faeit 212 Anonymous Source wrote:Octobers White Dwarf will be released on 22nd of September.
all store managers got an email today that its release day was relocated to 22nd sept. due to the games day UK.

if the white dwarf announces something, it should be pre-orderable .

this heavily goes against the rumor you got, but usually you can preorder the major announcement that is in the WD on its release.

9th and 10th sept. there is a retail meeting taking place where all the store managers, might be a wrap up of the dark vengeance release

I haven't played chaos since third! I have nothing left! I think they are badass and I get excited about new books.

I've been wanting to make something neat with them for a long time, but they have been so low on gas and haven't much in the way of depth lately.

I am just really wanting the rules for my cultists at this point... I would very much like their point cost (not just rumors of)

Doesn't the DV book give the points cost? (I dont have it so this is an honest question).

How are you supposed to user them in a game if you dont get the points cost for them?!

 Praxiss wrote:
Doesn't the DV book give the points cost? (I dont have it so this is an honest question).

How are you supposed to user them in a game if you dont get the points cost for them?!

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios, i dont get all the hype, they will probably cost as much a guard squad with a worse save of nothing....feth the bonuses if i want guard equvilant squads ill tak ig renagades.

Cyvash wrote:

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios, i dont get all the hype, they will probably cost as much a guard squad with a worse save of nothing....feth the bonuses if i want guard equvilant squads ill tak ig renagades.

The playtest rules have them at 3 points each and the original rumour had them at 4. They certainly won't cost the same as IG infantry.

I#m taking both IG and cultists.

I'll withold judgement until the new 'dex comes out.

Either way i want a cheap infantry blob to use as a meat shield/home objective holder.

DV has got me on the Chaos band wagon, I want a core of Cultists with elite CSM's backing them up. Very excited to see the codex, and I hope there's some kind of Cultist "leader" model that I can bring in instead of a CSM Lord...

I have the FW Renegade Command Squad ready to build for just this occasion.

Palindrome wrote:

Cyvash wrote:

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios, i dont get all the hype, they will probably cost as much a guard squad with a worse save of nothing....feth the bonuses if i want guard equvilant squads ill tak ig renagades.

The playtest rules have them at 3 points each and the original rumour had them at 4. They certainly won't cost the same as IG infantry.

I#m taking both IG and cultists.

As am I, especially conscripts with "send in the next wave!" and Chenkov as a particularly diabolical Cultist leader.

The look on your opponent's face when half of your 2000 point list is really just 250 or so T3 5+ save bodies is going to be priceless.

Assuming you can afford to buy the 250+ models in the first place.

I am assuming the Cultists will coem in packs of 10 when the kit is actually released. Hopefully it will have the options for CCW/pistol AND auto guns in the one kit.

Assuming there is a kit.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Palindrome wrote:

Cyvash wrote:

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios, i dont get all the hype, they will probably cost as much a guard squad with a worse save of nothing....feth the bonuses if i want guard equvilant squads ill tak ig renagades.

The playtest rules have them at 3 points each and the original rumour had them at 4. They certainly won't cost the same as IG infantry.

I#m taking both IG and cultists.

As am I, especially conscripts with "send in the next wave!" and Chenkov as a particularly diabolical Cultist leader.

The look on your opponent's face when half of your 2000 point list is really just 250 or so T3 5+ save bodies is going to be priceless.

I'd like to see the look on your face after you've painted 250+ models!

 Praxiss wrote:
Assuming you can afford to buy the 250+ models in the first place.

I am assuming the Cultists will coem in packs of 10 when the kit is actually released. Hopefully it will have the options for CCW/pistol AND auto guns in the one kit.

Rumor is that they'll be the same cost/model per box as Cadians.

But just like AOBR before, the ones from the box will be cheap.

Well yeah, that's a given, but I get all teary-eyed when I imagine how beautiful a multipart cultist kit could be!

Praxiss wrote:Assuming you can afford to buy the 250+ models in the first place.

I am assuming the Cultists will coem in packs of 10 when the kit is actually released. Hopefully it will have the options for CCW/pistol AND auto guns in the one kit.

It would be expensive, but oh so worth it. I'm getting a little teary eyed just thinking about the whole thing.

Alpharius wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Palindrome wrote:

Cyvash wrote:

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios, i dont get all the hype, they will probably cost as much a guard squad with a worse save of nothing....feth the bonuses if i want guard equvilant squads ill tak ig renagades.

The playtest rules have them at 3 points each and the original rumour had them at 4. They certainly won't cost the same as IG infantry.

I#m taking both IG and cultists.

As am I, especially conscripts with "send in the next wave!" and Chenkov as a particularly diabolical Cultist leader.

The look on your opponent's face when half of your 2000 point list is really just 250 or so T3 5+ save bodies is going to be priceless.

I'd like to see the look on your face after you've painted 250+ models!

Hahaha I would too. Even if I only spent 30 minutes on each model, that would still amount to 7500 minutes which is 125 hours. That's pretty ridiculous any way you put it.

Warseer DA Rumors: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?351780-DA-Rumors

Sure, it's not CSM news.. but Stickmonkey says that DA is not next, like the last page of the WD would "suggest".

Maybe some people can breath a sigh of relief ; )

I'll go pop that into the DA thread and the Ongoing tracker.

Definitely can't wait to see if the Brotherhood of Sorcerers rule will be used in this book. Maybe the new DA kit can offer us some new robes and such, if we get sorcerers.

Shame there hasn't been a mention of a unit like that. Come onnnnn, WD rules.

It seems like CSM is definitely going to be leaked soon. I wonder who will do it first?

Here's hoping for that Reddit guy........ You know which one.

Cyvash wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
Doesn't the DV book give the points cost? (I dont have it so this is an honest question).

How are you supposed to user them in a game if you dont get the points cost for them?!

Becuase they are only useable in the dv scenarios,

And the new Chaos Space Marine Codex (with the point costs) will be out later this month...

I just want 60 Black Legion to be as good as 60 Grey Hunters point for point. Is that too much to ask?

Cultists would be nice if there is a Plague Zombie offshoot as rumored. The ones from the datasheet in apoc are only 5 pts.

Not sure how it's being discussed but if there are Chosen unlocked as Troops, will we be going back to being able to equip Chosen with Terminator armor? If Termies are a seperate Elite choice again, will there be a way to take them as troops? It just seemed like there is a way to do that in most recent books. I have Abbie and 25 Terminators along with 60+ Black Legion just waiting....

My main hope for cultists is that there will be a Plague Zombie upgrade. Give me an excuse to paint 50ish zombies.

 ashrog wrote:
My main hope for cultists is that there will be a Plague Zombie upgrade. Give me an excuse to paint 50ish zombies.

It doesn't seem to be in the OP, but word is that Typhus makes cultists plague zombies. No weapons (maybe counts-as 2 CCW) FNP, S&P, Fearless for no cost.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 ashrog wrote:
My main hope for cultists is that there will be a Plague Zombie upgrade. Give me an excuse to paint 50ish zombies.

It doesn't seem to be in the OP, but word is that Typhus makes cultists plague zombies. No weapons (maybe counts-as 2 CCW) FNP, S&P, Fearless for no cost.

And apparently become non-scoring in the process though.

Pretre, I am not sure if this is "rumor worthy", but people got Logan to spill a few tidbits in the comments section over at Natfka's site.


+++++++++++++
Logan:

"I have sat down with the CSM codex and think everyone will be pleased. Its a good well written book. There is cheese but you will need to pay in order to truly exploit it.

They are definately one of the top3 when it comes to Psykers

As far as the named Lords...

You wont need Abbadon or Typhus to be competitive. They are all very fun and brutal characters. My personal favorites are The Blackheart and Kharne. But Bile is very nasty and Lucius is even cooler! Also there is a LITTLE bit of fluff on Cypher."

+++++++++++++


I for one am very interested to see if they made ALL the characters useful. Sure, I'm all about some Ahriman goodness.. but I want the others to be absolutely terrifying even though I won't use 'em.

Carl from The Independent Characters apparently got a look at it and said that TastyTaste's rumors were very accurate.

: [ I want to cry. Did he say anything else?

Yeah, TastyTaste's rumors give me mixed feelings, but one way or another, I will play CSM. I just love em like I love my Crons.

I was looking on The ICs forum and saw this:

+++++

So although he wasn't officially allowed to tell me anything, my local GW store manager has confirmed that the new chaos codex will be available to preorder in store on Saturday 22nd of Spetember 2012, to be released on the following Saturday. This is the slot that he has been told by GW hq to save in the stores diary specificly.

Naturally I am just some guy in the Internet and so you should all feel free to take this with a pinch of salt if you feel inclined. However I will point out that the same source told me the release date for the 6th edition release and he was right about that. http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3331
+++++

Interesting to find that in a quick dig, but I'm not holding my breath yknow?

 Brometheus wrote:
Pretre, I am not sure if this is "rumor worthy", but people got Logan to spill a few tidbits in the comments section over at Natfka's site.


+++++++++++++
Logan:

"I have sat down with the CSM codex and think everyone will be pleased. Its a good well written book. There is cheese but you will need to pay in order to truly exploit it.

They are definately one of the top3 when it comes to Psykers

As far as the named Lords...

You wont need Abbadon or Typhus to be competitive. They are all very fun and brutal characters. My personal favorites are The Blackheart and Kharne. But Bile is very nasty and Lucius is even cooler! Also there is a LITTLE bit of fluff on Cypher."

+++++++++++++


I for one am very interested to see if they made ALL the characters useful. Sure, I'm all about some Ahriman goodness.. but I want the others to be absolutely terrifying even though I won't use 'em.

Interesting to hear Fabius Bile being described as a powerful character. I'm really excited about using his enhanced warriors in combination with the rumored marks and icons to create a "mad scientist" contingent to complement my Death Guard. Definitely excited about the potential of the new codex, and really hoping to create some cool lists beyond the uniform Death Guard lists I've been handcuffed with in the current codex.

I agree. Gives us an interesting Fabius!

 Brometheus wrote:
I agree. Gives us an interesting Fabius!

Appropriately, if it really is written by Kelly, he did add a tidbit in the Dark Eldar codex about Fabius Bile spending some time in Comorragh working as an intern for the haemonculi covens there to learn freakier sciences. Here's hoping he remembers that and gives everyone's favorite crazy apotechary fun rulles!

 Brometheus wrote:
: [ I want to cry. Did he say anything else?

He mentioned that the dual-kit daemon engine somewhat resembles a mechanical Bloodcrusher, and that the daemonic raptors inflict Blind to models within 6" of them when they deepstrike.

I really really hope the old Chaos Marine box gets recut, and a Haviv squad in plastic. Seeing the amount of stuff they fit on the recut tactical sprue makes the chaos marine sprue look terrible.

Um... the CSM sprue is newer than the Tactical sprue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Um... the CSM sprue is newer than the Tactical sprue.

Yeah, but it's ugly as sin. I may end up having to pay for chosen boxes to be my regular marines, if the troops box stays the same.

Just patiently waiting for any rumours and/or info on the Warsmith (if it exists)

All i've seen so far is that it might be able to repair hullpoints.

 Praxiss wrote:
Just patiently waiting for any rumours and/or info on the Warsmith (if it exists)

All i've seen so far is that it might be able to repair hullpoints.

And curse vehicles and degrade terrain.

 Vhalyar wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
Just patiently waiting for any rumours and/or info on the Warsmith (if it exists)

All i've seen so far is that it might be able to repair hullpoints.

And curse vehicles and degrade terrain.

/cackle. just wonderign what kind of options they get. In apoc games i field mine on a hover disc as a MoTF on bike (with a conversion beamer). i'm hopic it gets some fluffy equipment options by way of arcane guns and stuff (bring back the Kai Gun!!)

 Sidstyler wrote:

I'd blame GW, personally. Don't know why the players should be the ones to take responsibility for choices GW made.

I didn't realise Matt Ward or Kirby stand over a player's shoulder while they make their army list and tell them what to put in it. GW have to take responsibility for giving players the option to put together daftly broken armylists, but the players who make them aren't blameless, or somehow absolved from any responsibility for their own choices because of GW's poor ones. I can sit down with any Codex and make a fluffy-yet-competitive all-comers list without resorting to spam, exploiting daft rules loopholes, or any other listbuilding "strategies", so I know that when someone sits down with that same Codex and produces an utter monstrosity designed to achieve victory at the expense of any consideration for the fun of their opponent did so of their own free will, and as such is as valid a target for criticism as GW are.

Now, as for the latest info: bugger, I was really hoping TastyTaste was just pulling those rumours out of his nethers. I do like the sound of the daemon engine though.

As for the 22nd preorder date, I'll believe it when I see it, not long ago we were being told the release date was tomorrow.

I do hope the Iron Warriors get their fair share of the spotlight, I've just finished making a corrupt fortress for them using imperial bastion kits and plasticard. It'd be a shame if they were shoved to the back.

Hopefully they will write the codex so that the "undivided" legions can be made, by takign to right mix of options.

Then Sept 22 will pass us, and we'll be told the release date is "next week"

 Exergy wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

More like that's what everyone assumes is usually the case. It's been proven before that not every army that comes out is automatically "broken", Tyranids and Dark Eldar being good examples...everyone got fethed over in those two examples, both people who had been playing for years and people wanting to start new armies
I'd blame GW, personally. Don't know why the players should be the ones to take responsibility for choices GW made.

And some people like me waited 13 years for a new DE book only to find it one of the least powerful armies when it first came out and quickly relegated back to the shelf after 6th came out. Great models though.

I didn't wait 13 years but I know what you mean. Such awesome models, probably the best GW have ever done...so much wasted potential. Wonder how long we'll have to wait for the next book now.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I can sit down with any Codex and make a fluffy-yet-competitive all-comers list without resorting to spam, exploiting daft rules loopholes, or any other listbuilding "strategies", so I know that when someone sits down with that same Codex and produces an utter monstrosity designed to achieve victory at the expense of any consideration for the fun of their opponent did so of their own free will, and as such is as valid a target for criticism as GW are.

I've played Tau long enough to know that if you don't spam crisis suits/broadsides you don't stand a chance when playing competitively, you literally can't make a competitive Tau list that doesn't resort to spamming units. And that was even before 6th edition came along and made allied detachments a necessity, "pure" Tau aren't competitive even with the spam. So needless to say I disagree with your claim that you can write a list for any codex, and considering that this is off-topic to begin with (and you clearly sound like the type of guy whose mind is already made up) I think we should leave it at that.



Whether Chaos comes out at the end of the month or DA manages to jump ahead of them, I'm curious to see if the rumors hold true and codices will be in hardcover from now on like Warhammer army books. If they do I'm going to be disappointed, at $40+ each it won't be very practical to collect one for every army. I can't even afford to buy them at the current price to be honest, most of my current codex collection was bought used at about half off, only two of them were bought new: DE and Tau (I swear my Tau codex was only like $20 brand new, and it doesn't even feel like I bought it that long ago). As far as Chaos goes though I'm mostly only interested in the models anyway, I don't have very high expectations for the rules considering not only how bad the last one was, but who was rumored to be writing the new one. I'd hate for Chaos players to get screwed over yet again and end up in a similar boat to DE, especially since Chaos was my brother's first army and another bad codex will probably push him out of the game.

I'm hoping the new stuff looks as good as the Dark Vengeance models, if not better, but I'm not holding my breath really. Really kinda sucks that we have nothing to talk about and nothing really concrete when supposedly the release is just around the corner.

so no advance order today for a september 15th release then...
Good rumour that

At least we may start seeing some white dwarf pictures from the 15th onwards.

 Lorizael wrote:
so no advance order today for a september 15th release then...
Good rumour that

Nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooo-OH WELL there's always next week. And the week after. And the week after...

 Sidstyler wrote:


Whether Chaos comes out at the end of the month or DA manages to jump ahead of them, I'm curious to see if the rumors hold true and codices will be in hardcover from now on like Warhammer army books. If they do I'm going to be disappointed, at $40+ each it won't be very practical to collect one for every army. I can't even afford to buy them at the current price to be honest, most of my current codex collection was bought used at about half off, only two of them were bought new: DE and Tau (I swear my Tau codex was only like $20 brand new, and it doesn't even feel like I bought it that long ago). As far as Chaos goes though I'm mostly only interested in the models anyway, I don't have very high expectations for the rules considering not only how bad the last one was, but who was rumored to be writing the new one. I'd hate for Chaos players to get screwed over yet again and end up in a similar boat to DE, especially since Chaos was my brother's first army and another bad codex will probably push him out of the game.

I'm hoping the new stuff looks as good as the Dark Vengeance models, if not better, but I'm not holding my breath really. Really kinda sucks that we have nothing to talk about and nothing really concrete when supposedly the release is just around the corner.

I have to disagree about the hardbacks one one point - I really am looking forward to full color books. The 6th rulebook is really nice, and worth the cost, in my opinion. I do agree about the codex price rises in general. Since I'm by no means an army hopper, I don't have to worry about all the new kits that come out, and what it costs for tournament players to stay competitive. However, I did collect all the codexes for a long while, just for the background reading. Really once they jumped from $20 to $25, I started thinking twice about which ones to pick up, and when it got to $29 and $33, it wasn't even really a consideration. It's really a bad move on GWs part, even if you don't profit on the book, keeping them at impulse buy price range will then allow people to get excited about a new army and go buy new models. It's like tech companies that sell a device at break even price, because they count on the content sales to make up for it.

This was just posted on Faeit 212. Linky

Dark Apostles are going to be one those new units we really do not yet know much about. Todays rumor set brings forth a few words on them and how marks affect them. Also Daemon Princes are going up in points!


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (Anonymous)
the chaos space marine daemon prince being increased by 40pts! & having the lash ability taken away for good (apparently to cheesy)
the daemon prince will have to pay the same points for wings as a daemons prince from the chaos daemons codex so it is is more balanced.

dark Apostles will be the same as the blood angels sangunary priest (can have up to 3 & they count as 1 elite)
the apostle will only give you abilities depending on the mark it has taken.

the list is as follows :
Undivided : unit becomes fearless & relentless and gain feel no pain
khorne : unit gains rage , furious charge & rampage
nurgle: unit gains feel no pain , it will not die and slow and purposeful (if it joins a unit with feel no pain already then the feel no pain roll is one lower than normal)
tzeench: units gains a 5+ invulnerable save that can be re rolled if failed (unit and apostle can re roll once per game)
slannesh: unit gains fleet , + 1 initiative and rending

Holycrapapostlesaregoingtobeamazingiftrueandaroundonehundredpoints.

Maybe we won't have to use your custom CSM codex for much longer, Dave. :p

Sounds like a lot of overlap with standard Marks, so I guess he's more intended to buff units that can't have Marks of their own (cultists)

The apostle thing doesn't sound very plausible, but if Chaos is the first codex off the starting block then I would imagine it will see a great deal of cheese in it's pages. It will be the "look what 6th ed can do" codex. That being said I hope they don't let you cross marks, like a Slaanesh Apostle/Plague Marines. It's cheesy and broken, not fluffy, and too tempting.

I would HAVE TO field Nurgle apostles with my Plague Marines, assuming PMs continue to have FNP come new codex.

Brometheus wrote:Maybe we won't have to use your custom CSM codex for much longer, Dave. :p

Haha! I didn't realise people even did!

I Guess its time to start planning the mass character builds i have been working on.

Guard blobs are still probably one of the best units in sixth when crossed with a SM character, but those dark apostles, especially an undivided one, can go a long way to helping turn a large cultist squad into something similar. Or a unit of CC armed cultists with the slannesh one. You get how many rending attacks???

Oh lordy, Nurgle Apostles. Time to start converting my SM Chaplains for my Death Guard!

Need one in Terminator Armour quick!

Too many interesting elite units to field in a standard FOC: terminators, dark apostles, chosen (especially after the DV minis), possessed, cult troops... It seems I will be forced to play bigger-than-2000-points games to use 2 FOCs. Or I just can make several smaller lists!

Uh, I've been using it in-home for months, with some personal touches. It had a good run.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sounds like a lot of overlap with standard Marks, so I guess he's more intended to buff units that can't have Marks of their own (cultists)

Well if they can take Termi armors, putting one in a Khorne Termi squad, will finaly make them more or less legit World Eaters Termies; +2A on assault,+1S and +1D3 A per combat round..., i can life with that!

Now one of those in a squad of Chosens with MoK and Kharn...

The tears of Blood Angels will be delicious if Nurgle can get 4+ FNP

 BDJV wrote:
This was just posted on Faeit 212. Linky

Dark Apostles are going to be one those new units we really do not yet know much about. Todays rumor set brings forth a few words on them and how marks affect them. Also Daemon Princes are going up in points!


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (Anonymous)
the chaos space marine daemon prince being increased by 40pts! & having the lash ability taken away for good (apparently to cheesy)
the daemon prince will have to pay the same points for wings as a daemons prince from the chaos daemons codex so it is is more balanced.

dark Apostles will be the same as the blood angels sangunary priest (can have up to 3 & they count as 1 elite)
the apostle will only give you abilities depending on the mark it has taken.

the list is as follows :
Undivided : unit becomes fearless & relentless and gain feel no pain
khorne : unit gains rage , furious charge & rampage
nurgle: unit gains feel no pain , it will not die and slow and purposeful (if it joins a unit with feel no pain already then the feel no pain roll is one lower than normal)
tzeench: units gains a 5+ invulnerable save that can be re rolled if failed (unit and apostle can re roll once per game)
slannesh: unit gains fleet , + 1 initiative and rending

Well I hope the DP get's some bonus' then! 150pts+ for just the basic prince and wings.. jesus.... they're not THAT resilient/awesome atm considering the run of the mill Lord generally gets trampled by most other HQ's in most departments.

 Sharkvictim wrote:
The apostle thing doesn't sound very plausible, but if Chaos is the first codex off the starting block then I would imagine it will see a great deal of cheese in it's pages. It will be the "look what 6th ed can do" codex. That being said I hope they don't let you cross marks, like a Slaanesh Apostle/Plague Marines. It's cheesy and broken, not fluffy, and too tempting.

I would HAVE TO field Nurgle apostles with my Plague Marines, assuming PMs continue to have FNP come new codex.

I got a feeling the new CSM book will have the Deamonic Rivalries rule like you see in Codex: Deamons, with Undivided units and IC's being able to join and be joined freely.

Just a educated guess.

 BDJV wrote:
This was just posted on Faeit 212. Linky

Dark Apostles are going to be one those new units we really do not yet know much about. Todays rumor set brings forth a few words on them and how marks affect them. Also Daemon Princes are going up in points!


Please remember that these are rumors.

via Faeit 212 (Anonymous)
the chaos space marine daemon prince being increased by 40pts! & having the lash ability taken away for good (apparently to cheesy)
the daemon prince will have to pay the same points for wings as a daemons prince from the chaos daemons codex so it is is more balanced.

dark Apostles will be the same as the blood angels sangunary priest (can have up to 3 & they count as 1 elite)
the apostle will only give you abilities depending on the mark it has taken.

the list is as follows :
Undivided : unit becomes fearless & relentless and gain feel no pain
khorne : unit gains rage , furious charge & rampage
nurgle: unit gains feel no pain , it will not die and slow and purposeful (if it joins a unit with feel no pain already then the feel no pain roll is one lower than normal)
tzeench: units gains a 5+ invulnerable save that can be re rolled if failed (unit and apostle can re roll once per game)
slannesh: unit gains fleet , + 1 initiative and rending

So...

Undivded Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = Fearless 30 man Blob Squad with Feel no Pain and Relentless
Khorne Apostle + 30 man Combat Cultist Squad = +2 attacks on the charge at s4 and should the unit get whittled down, i get +1d3 attacks each turn anyway!
Nurgle Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = Meh, not too fancy...
Tzeentch Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = 5+ Invunerable save Cultists... Objective holding anyone?
Slaanesh Apostle + 30 man Combat Cultist Squad = 3 attacks each on the charge with Rending.... Sweet.


I'm getting myself a feth ton of cultists and an Apostle for each unit !


Automatically Appended Next Post:
180 cultists and 6 apostles

Semper wrote:


Well I hope the DP get's some bonus' then! 150pts+ for just the basic prince and wings.. jesus.... they're not THAT resilient/awesome atm considering the run of the mill Lord generally gets trampled by most other HQ's in most departments.

Indeed. I hope they are brought up to C'tan and Nyd uber-beast level, if so: Either S7 and T7 at 4 wounds or S6/T6 and 5/5 wounds. Otherwise they will be making wings even more of an auto-include.

I really wish they made Daemon Princes more flexible. Allow for bestial quadruped ones that move like beasts and proper shooty ones that actually use the added firepower 'slot' being a MC grants!

 Bloodhorror wrote:


So...

Undivded Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = Fearless 30 man Blob Squad with Feel no Pain and Relentless
Khorne Apostle + 30 man Combat Cultist Squad = +2 attacks on the charge at s4 and should the unit get whittled down, i get +1d3 attacks each turn anyway!
Nurgle Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = Meh, not too fancy...
Tzeentch Apostle + 30 man Cultist Squad = 5+ Invunerable save Cultists... Objective holding anyone?
Slaanesh Apostle + 30 man Combat Cultist Squad = 3 attacks each on the charge with Rending.... Sweet.

Wonder if this is how you "unlock" things like plague zombies (DA with Nurgle plus cultists)?

So from this, it appears that Dark Apostles are just part of the army list, and not necessarily Word Bearers? Interesting.

^ That's how I suspect it will be. I wager that the Dark Apostile (if there IS one) unit description will probably be something similar to the way the current CSM codex is when describing cults.

You know, the whole "Not every plague marine is a death guard member" type deal.

I must say, I -really- doubt this new rumor about apostles bestowing USR combos upon units. The Slaanesh one seems so powerful it makes Death Company units look like chumps.

Though maybe Kelly has accidentally used Matt Ward's mug at the office and got the imba bug something fierce.

"I'll show those sanguinary priests what buffing a unit REALLY is..."

 Sephyr wrote:
I must say, I -really- doubt this new rumor about apostles bestowing USR combos upon units. The Slaanesh one seems so powerful it makes Death Company units look like chumps.

Though maybe Kelly has accidentally used Matt Ward's mug at the office and got the imba bug something fierce.

"I'll show those sanguinary priests what buffing a unit REALLY is..."

To add to the "confusion" ( ), some dude on the Faeit website commented that the rules for the bonuses of the Dark Apostle are wrong. So they are most likely not as OTT as we are being led to believe.

However if they are, that is awesome. I could see putting one in a Khornate Terminator squad (say hello to 4+D3 attacks on the charge at Str5 or higher depending on weaponry!) and then another in a unit of 30 cultists.

Even if they aren't that good, I am still looking forward to seeing their bonuses!

dbl

Natfka put up another post about the apostles. Basically what his other sources are saying is that Dark Apostles have fearless and furious charge themselves that they also convey to units they join. They go on to say that a Dark Apostle in a plague marine unit would make their FNP 4+ instead of 5+.

Also that rampage won't be given to units that can take over 3 models.

This dark apostle shenanigans is unfortunate. WAAC players only.

I hope the dark apostle with cultist thing is true, fits perfectly with my warband, aspiring warriors seeking to prove themselves for the blood god led by a maniac shouting taunts everywhere.

Ironically, these Dark Apostles don't really sound like they would fit in a fluffy Word Bearer army, where they should really be 1 per army and an HQ.

Also Ahriman, Magister Templi of the Corvidae, does not have Divination. Epic Fail.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Ironically, these Dark Apostles don't really sound like they would fit in a fluffy Word Bearer army, where they should really be 1 per army and an HQ.

Also Ahriman, Magister Templi of the Corvidae, does not have Divination. Epic Fail.

Hopefully the lore of Tzeentch will be a bit similar to Divination and make up for the bungling. But yes, it's crap that those who dedicate temselves to the architect of Fate can't see into the future but some sorcery-hating mutt-men can cast runes and get next week's bullet forecast, no problem.

 6^ wrote:
This dark apostle shenanigans is unfortunate. WAAC players only.

Don't let your knee jerk like that before you even know all the details or if any of it is even true.

 6^ wrote:
This dark apostle shenanigans is unfortunate. WAAC players only.

Gotta love Dakka rumor threads. One page is bemoaning how the new codex will be bland, underpowered and likely keep them a lower tier army. The next page we get a sliver of a rumor, where we don't know the actual rules, point costs, etc. and the codex is full of cheese.

I'm personally happy about Dark Apostles being a universal option. Even if expensive, I like the option of getting my plaguemarines a 4+ FNP save again.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Ironically, these Dark Apostles don't really sound like they would fit in a fluffy Word Bearer army, where they should really be 1 per army and an HQ.

Also Ahriman, Magister Templi of the Corvidae, does not have Divination. Epic Fail.

Hopefully the lore of Tzeentch will be a bit similar to Divination and make up for the bungling.

Nah, sounds like a bunch of fire spells and random crap.

 Sephyr wrote:
I must say, I -really- doubt this new rumor about apostles bestowing USR combos upon units. The Slaanesh one seems so powerful it makes Death Company units look like chumps.

Let's see the channeled powers of a God versus a genetically modified hiccup... One sounds like it should be more powerful.

lol.... Faeit212 Abbaddon rumors.

What a joke. I don't even want to copy/paste them here they sound so awful.

..and don't call me a sky-is-falling sort of fellow because I have no interest in using Abby either way.

The background in this rumor just reeks of someone trolling Natfka. I lol'd.

Sorry I have got no clue of Abbadon but isnt he favoured by all gods.

He is now Tzeetnch's favourite son

Well I guess we just don't know until we see it

 Brometheus wrote:
lol.... Faeit212 Abbaddon rumors.

What a joke. I don't even want to copy/paste them here they sound so awful.

..and don't call me a sky-is-falling sort of fellow because I have no interest in using Abby either way.

The background in this rumor just reeks of someone trolling Natfka. I lol'd.

I know right? It seems so 'noob' to be GW reality... even if they have done some shocking things.

Tzeentch's second gift? Fury? Since when has Abaddon been a berserker willing to gamble two strikes over one? This guy is meant to be a warmaster of THE villains and the dude that laughed at the idea of the C'tan...

Logan is lurking in the comments section.. Pay attention to little tidbits he gives up.

The new Abaddon rumor is sub-Matt Ward in fanboyism and OPness. They just killed the Fateweaver combo with CSM to avoid giving 2+ armor units a re-roll on saves and now they bring it back?

Not likely. As for the "but if he fails he takes 2 wounds!" aspect, it's also bad, given that he also has a daemon weapon. Two bits of wargear that help killing you on a single character is a bit too lottery-minded even for a chaos book.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
I must say, I -really- doubt this new rumor about apostles bestowing USR combos upon units. The Slaanesh one seems so powerful it makes Death Company units look like chumps.

Though maybe Kelly has accidentally used Matt Ward's mug at the office and got the imba bug something fierce.

"I'll show those sanguinary priests what buffing a unit REALLY is..."

To add to the "confusion" ( ), some dude on the Faeit website commented that the rules for the bonuses of the Dark Apostle are wrong. So they are most likely not as OTT as we are being led to believe.

Not that surprising really; it seems as of late Faeit is constantly stepping on his own toes.

Just posted on Faeit 212 link

We have another set regarding the Chaos Dragon, terminators, and a siege tank of some sort. Take a look.


Please remember that these are rumors

via Faeit 212 (anonymous source)
the chaos dragon will have two shooting profiles:

when shooting at flyers : 36'' range , strength 9 AP 4 heavy 3
when shooting at the ground: 36'' range , strength 8 AP 3 heavy 3 blast (can be upgraded to large blast but then becomes heavy 2) and costs + 30 pts

also terminators will be given a chaos version of a space marine storm shield. And if you now take chosen terminators they will have 2 wounds each.
also the melta vindicator rumour is very much real - but with the two profiles as well.

special rule: enraged daemon: (this rule only applies if you give your melta vindicator daemonic possession) : once per game you can exchange your normal melta shot for a daemonic melta shot.
you may not move in the previous turn to do this ! you shoot ( large blast strength 10 AP 1 shot ) but cannot use your ballistic skill and always scatters 2d6 inches. after doing this then the rules for daemonic possession on the tank is lost for the rest of the game and you must only fire the normal melta shot.

normal melta shot is : strength 8 AP 1 large blast.
this tank cost 150pts to start and an extra 20pts for daemonic possession - NOTE: this tank may NEVER EVER fire at flyers or at a enemy when a member of your army is within 3 inches of the target.

I'm sorry... did someone just say chaos get a variation of the storm shield and chosen terminators get not one, but two wounds? And.. the implication being I could combine this unit with Abaddon the Despoiler, quite possibly the strongest IC there is?

Fairy tales.

We're not loyal to the emperor... don't you make me dream again you monsters!

Did I just see a dragon with a battle cannon on its back? Someone photoshop this. This could be the next big thing!

if chaos got stormshields, those marked with Tzeentch could get 2+ invulnerables. That's a mighty bit of salt in my eyes.

"We have another set regarding the Chaos Dragon, terminators, and a siege tank of some sort. Take a look.


Putting an end to this comment section and locking the thread.

Rumor are rumors, but I have just disproved them they are fabrications. "


===============================



Wtf does that mean?

Har666 from Warseer wrote:From gamesday Australia:

Jeremy Vetock said that chaos 40k were getting a lot of love shortly.

Jes Goodwin spoke about how chaos at the moment doesn't really represent the marines that have been in the warp for 10k years, particularly the vehicles. He told us that he thought there was a lot of room for new stuff in that area.
(...)
When I was talking to Jeremy he was showing off the 'eavy metal painted chosen that were used for the WD spread on the new starter set. He also said that they had learnt from the fantasy 8th ed's lack of quick follow up army books, and that we should expect 3-4 codexes (sp) in the next 6 to 8 months

I defiantly got the impression from the way Jes was talking that there were big exciting things coming very soon. He seemed to be pretty excited by the direction.

I also have to add that Jeremy and Jes were both great to talk to and did great QA sessions with much humor and genuine enthusiasm.

Those heading to gamesday UK are in for a treat, all the special guests were dropping a lot of hints that there would be some announcements on the day.

A Gamesday showing would be epic. Damn now I cant remember where I read this (natfka comments?) but there was a rumour that the new WD would only be given to stores a day before the release and only to a few select people. So it makes sense GW want to keep this release as a suprise. Well, the pictures anyway

 Brometheus wrote:
Wtf does that mean?

Most of the stuff he posted today was bunk, essentially.

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Dragon Flyer - 12/12/10

2 butcher cannons, bs3, immune to shaken/stunned, can be locked velocity as normal. Flyer only, no hover/skimmer mode. Can vector strike at strength 10. Strafing run.
Because this might be misinterpreted I'm going to be really clear: It does not have "two firing profiles." It has 2 butcher cannons, and that's it. It does not have blasts of any kind. It is "BS4" against ground targets because of strafing run (go read it, it's a USR for details).

Terminators can be upgraded to chosen, getting +1 WS (5) and +1 wound (2), and fearless. They can take marks on top of that. It gets expensive.
- Interestingly enough, when upgraded they are troops if you take Abbadon, yet normal Terminators are Elites.
There are no "chaos storm shields,"
The best you can get is Mark of Tzeench to upgrade your 5+ invulnerable from Terminator armour to a 4+.

There is a piece of chaos wargear that gives a 4+ invulnerable, but it is not a storm shield it can just be added for characters. Yes it upgrades via mark of tzeench to 3+. No it's not available for sorcerers.


Vindicator is unchanged, but can take daemonic possession (as all chaos vehicles can). No melta of any kind on it except the potential to buy a pintle-mounted combi-melta as an upgrade.

As for the essentially indirect fire mechanism? That's made up. As for the daemonic possession changing the weapon profile for 1 shot that then expends the daemonic possession? That's made up.

The new book has a lot to explore, and lots of fiddly options here and there. The post about Abbadon and the previous one have no basis on the actual print what so ever.

A bit more believable.

Still looking good though!

I hasten to ask though. Terminators can be upgraded to Chosen.. but does this count as the Chosen Abby makes to troops? Is that rule blanket or does it apply to the unit that starts as chosen (aka the ones that are not an upgrade, rather come as Chosen). I understand you sorta answer it but is that rumour.. speculation.. yadda yadda...

SO they makes a unit better than the paladins? When they just nerfed dragio wing to introduce Abbawing (Blackwing).

I wonder how much those termis cost.

10 termis for chaos from the rumours is only 310 points. Give them all Mark of Tzeench. and upgrade them to choosen will that make them 550 points like the paladins?

I doubt those upgrades are that expensive.

Best of all chaos gets AP2 power fists while the paladins are stuck at ap3 so (IF TRUE) welcome to just one tiny bit of cheese from the chaos book.

IF it is true that is. I feel this does not sound too far off the truth.

 Marthike wrote:
SO they makes a unit better than the paladins? When they just nerfed dragio wing to introduce Abbawing (Blackwing).

I wonder how much those termis cost.

10 termis for chaos from the rumours is only 310 points. Give them all Mark of Tzeench. and upgrade them to choosen will that make them 550 points like the paladins?

I doubt those upgrades are that expensive.

Best of all chaos gets AP2 power fists while the paladins are stuck at ap3 so (IF TRUE) welcome to just one tiny bit of cheese from the chaos book.

IF it is true that is. I feel this does not sound too far off the truth.

Paladins can still take Daemonhammers for AP2 so that's good.

Have to say I'm pumped for the Chosen Terminators. I'm thinking a hilarious list would be (yes, once again...) maxing out all 6 troops slots with 30 cultists per unit so that's 600 points down and you have 180 scoring models, and then spend the rest on Chosen Terminators. At 2000, take Abaddon for that juicy 2x FoC.

It seemed fairly obvious today's rumors on Faeit212 were totally made up. I was excited at the prospect for a melta vindicator though! It's a bit of a shame that Natfka is so prone to posting bits of unvetted rumors that come from a source of zero credibility. Just makes me wonder if his "source who must not be named" is even legit. Sure, it's easy to debunk or confirm all the rumors others post, doesn't really add credibility.

 Marthike wrote:
SO they makes a unit better than the paladins? When they just nerfed dragio wing to introduce Abbawing (Blackwing).
I wonder how much those termis cost.

10 termis for chaos from the rumours is only 310 points. Give them all Mark of Tzeench. and upgrade them to choosen will that make them 550 points like the paladins?

I doubt those upgrades are that expensive.

Best of all chaos gets AP2 power fists while the paladins are stuck at ap3 so (IF TRUE) welcome to just one tiny bit of cheese from the chaos book.

Chaos Termies come with power weapons, so add 10 points per model for Fists, which would bring them to 650 for 10 models in your scenario.

I'm okay with Chaos having super expensive but super awesome Terminators even above what Grey Knights could bring to the table. Grey Knights are the cream of the astartes crop with psychic powers on top. Chosen Terminators are the cream of the traitor legions crop, with thousands of years experience each and chaos gifts on top.

Chaos should be just that good, as long as they pay for it.

"There are no "chaos storm shields"

Praise be to Khorne...


W2 Terminators don’t bother me. They are Chosen after all, and if every talk about Chaos being 10,000 year-old veterans is going to get bogged down with “But not all of them are!!!” distractions then we can at least agree that the Chosen should be the elite of the elite of the elite (unless Abby makes ‘em troops! ).

 Starfarer wrote:
It seemed fairly obvious today's rumors on Faeit212 were totally made up. I was excited at the prospect for a melta vindicator though! It's a bit of a shame that Natfka is so prone to posting bits of unvetted rumors that come from a source of zero credibility. Just makes me wonder if his "source who must not be named" is even legit. Sure, it's easy to debunk or confirm all the rumors others post, doesn't really add credibility.

 Marthike wrote:
SO they makes a unit better than the paladins? When they just nerfed dragio wing to introduce Abbawing (Blackwing).
I wonder how much those termis cost.

10 termis for chaos from the rumours is only 310 points. Give them all Mark of Tzeench. and upgrade them to choosen will that make them 550 points like the paladins?

I doubt those upgrades are that expensive.

Best of all chaos gets AP2 power fists while the paladins are stuck at ap3 so (IF TRUE) welcome to just one tiny bit of cheese from the chaos book.

Chaos Termies come with power weapons, so add 10 points per model for Fists, which would bring them to 650 for 10 models in your scenario.

NO not 650 points. They are currently 310 points which will be 410 with fists. I guess they will be another 10 points to become a choosen. That makes them 510 points. Curently the Mark of Tzeench is 35 points. I remember that the rumours says they are more expensive now. Lets double it to 70 points.

This makes 10 choosen termi 580 points (30 points more than paladins) with a 4+ invl and AP2 weapons. Now I can say this is definatly a buff.

I am thinking 5 Chosen Terminators w/ Mark of Tzeentch and the "Soul Blaze" rumored Icon.

So that's a bodyguard for a kick-ass Ahriman with:

-2 Wounds
-Fearless
-4+ Invulnerable Save
-WS 5?
-Soul Blaze TL Bolters
-Probably 2 Attacks
-Definitely Power Axes (Tomb Kings Halberds)

Sounds like a Rubric Terminator unit, to me.

For the record, if any of that actually comes true, I don't really agree with the WS5 part if I want to call 'em Rubric termies.

Here's hoping that there's a use for the Brotherhood of Sorcerers rule!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Logan from the Faeit212 comments mentions some things about:

-Lash still being in the codex, but works different

-Generic Lords are the only ones with the 4+ Iron Halo type Wargear. Think "Phase Shifter" points cost, somewhere 'round there.

-No 4+ Iron Halo "wargear" for named HQs
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Logan", I really hope you're not a troll pal.

GK paladins still have psyker abilities, force weapons to make the 2 wounds of chaos termis immaterial, and ATSKNF. also psyker defense and better shooting.

So it should be a close match when they meet on the table!

Is there new word on when the new Chaos Codex will be released? The OP date seems to be off as I don't see anything on the Advanced Orders page that is new chaos :(

 Sephyr wrote:

GK paladins still have psyker abilities, force weapons to make the 2 wounds of chaos termis immaterial, and ATSKNF. also psyker defense and better shooting.

So it should be a close match when they meet on the table!

The thing is, neither party wants those units to meet on the table. There's a way to deal with deathstars, and it's not throw your own deathstar at it. It's basically mutually assured destruction, while you actually want them rampaging around the rest of the other players army.

 Sephyr wrote:

GK paladins still have psyker abilities, force weapons to make the 2 wounds of chaos termis immaterial, and ATSKNF. also psyker defense and better shooting.

So it should be a close match when they meet on the table!

well thats the problem, GK paladins are AP3 except for a few hammers compared to all AP2 weapons I have proposed. Sure they have their S5 attacks and force weapons but its doing no good against 2+ save. Also the powerfist will instant death the paladins. Don't forget the 4+ invul from the Mark. (5+ with +1 = 4+)

Now What if we give them the mark of nurgle. T5 means not much can instant death them (only S10). And if you really mad give them the feel no pain ( i remember they can be bought seperatly from the rumours) This will be a expensive probably around the 650 points for 10 man but ridiculous unit.

Forgot paladins can all have demon hammers but who actully equips them with all demon hammers? even with demon hammers they still face 4+ invul instead of their own 5+

Will DPs with marks unlock cult units as troops, or is it just lords, sorcerers, etc?

Not sure. Have only heard "HQs unlock cults with the appropriate mark"

 Sharkvictim wrote:
Will DPs with marks unlock cult units as troops, or is it just lords, sorcerers, etc?

The original runour was lords only but that is now several months old and could well be wrong/incomplete.

I heard it was just Lords as well. Plus Sorcerers for Tzeentch.

The idea I think was supposed to be, since Demon Princes are going to be so completely utterly awesome pwnage (supposedly like fantasy stats), having the cults being unlocked just for lords encourages people to take them because traditionally there's been a problem with someone actually finding the normal captains/lords/masters a viable choice.

I can't quite remember WHERE I heard that though. It could even have been earlier in this thread :S

Well in my opinion lords were pretty underused because they died quickly, had average stats, and they didnt have eternal warrior.

yeah that always made me go "whut??" Chaos lords are eternal warrriors.. so should have the rule to back it up, but then i also think Tyrants should too... and Belial.

Wonder why the csm bf is still only not available in the UK.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Wonder why the csm bf is still only not available in the UK.

It's also not available for order on the German site.

Also they're promoting a battle for CSM in the GW stores for September 15, despite the Dark Angel on the last page of the WD it seems to look pretty good for Chaos

Huh cool will have to see if my store is doing it, thanks for the info

A bunch of updates from Faeit. I'm not adding the Har666 because it all sounds pretty vague. Reassuring, but vague.

I just want the new codex... is that too much to ask? I do not even care if I lose Lash, I just want cheaper noise marines.

Slightly OT, but maybe not.

Does anyone have any idea how much the codex will be if it is coming out in hardback?



EDIT:
Nevermind - just found the WFB Orcs army book (which is also hardback) on the GW site for £27.50. So it looks like 40k codecies are getting a price hike.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Wonder why the csm bf is still only not available in the UK.

They are probably rplacinging it or repackaginig it. so once a distribution center is out of stock in certain areas thats when the go down.

So my Draigo/Paladin/Flyer army gets nutted while my "Annihilation Force" themed Black Legion army with 15+ Terminators and Abbadon becomes good again... my how the worm has turned.

I'll be getting a handful of whatever the new units are just to fill out the collection for Chaos then I am done building armies.

The only things I will be getting at release will be the codex and either the flyer or the new demon engine, money is running low atm and so it will be depending on what looks cooler. I realise out of all my armies, I have no big monstrous things. Luckily this will soon change

 BladeWalker wrote:
So my Draigo/Paladin/Flyer army gets nutted while my "Annihilation Force" themed Black Legion army with 15+ Terminators and Abbadon becomes good again... my how the worm has turned.

I'll be getting a handful of whatever the new units are just to fill out the collection for Chaos then I am done building armies.

It only gets nutted if you're planning on playing solely chaos black legion players using that specific army for the rest of their use...

I can assure you that some chaos players (myself included) have a little more honour and intelligence than to just use one broken strategy.. sorta robs a little fun out of the game..

And hey, if any Legion should be able to spam Terminator armour then it should be the Death Guard.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
And hey, if any Legion should be able to spam Terminator armour then it should be the Death Guard.

How do you figure?

Am I the only one giggling at the thought of 2+, 5++, 5+FnP, T5, 2w chosen deathguard terminators... Led by typhus for the -d6" on enemy charge blightgrenades...

Hur hur hur... Yeah, they'll cost ALOT of points, but they'll be harder to get rid off than than a summer cold...

//Calle

From Natfka's comments section today:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Chaos Assault Marines are 18 points now, and can take special weapons (meltaguns, flamers) and the Champion can take special melee weapons.

They can also take marks, but no icons. They have jump packs, but unlike space marines they can't remove them.

There are also the night lord's raptors, who have the daemon special rule for a 5+ invulnerable, and all have essentially lightning claws (str as user, ap3, shred).

These cannot take any special weapons, and are Undivided.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Interesting.

Was that anon?

Pretre, when is it not?

; )

At this point, I am monitoring that site only for lolz.