Casbyness wrote: They should look like the Briar Queen with a human face, not Vasquez from Aliens.
This. This right here is the crux of the whole thing.
There's not 'repentant' about these. These miniatures don't look like people who are broken with grief and the need to make up for sin (real or otherwise). They're just determined angry buzz-cut girls wielding giant swords. And that'd be fine, if these weren't meant to be Sisters Repentia.
I did see one hilarious/cringe comment on GW's Facebook: "I'm so glad there isn't a Mistresses of Repentance there robbing them of their agency!"
I mean who talks like that?
Lol someone really said that? I swear I lose more and more faith in humanity by the minute. Good thing I avoid those facebook threads. And btw I sure hope there is a mistress of repentance either in the kit or as a clampack model, hopefully it's just something that they chose not to show in this bulletin.
Casbyness wrote: And Repentia are not in any way shape or form "looking to earn redemption".
... C:WH disagrees with you. As does every single codex since.
Repentia are Sisters that have failed to live up to the standards of the Adepta Sororitas. They seek to earn redemption for their failures through their service to the Emperor-- either from dying in His name, or by doing astounding deeds that redeems them for their past failures, as in the case of Saint Celestine or any Repentia that earns their way back in to the Sororitas proper.
That is the definition of what a Repentia is, their defining trait.
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Thargrim wrote: Lol someone really said that? I swear I lose more and more faith in humanity by the minute.
Pretty sure, assuming the post even went the way HBMC is paraphrasing, that it was joking/sarcastic.
Melissia wrote: Pretty sure, assuming the post even went the way HBMC is paraphrasing, that it was joking/sarcastic.
It wasn't a joke.
"A+ badass warriors fighting for redemption. Also super glad there's no sign of a mistress of repentance removing their agency. Thankyou so so much for such amazing and dynamic designs."
Casbyness wrote: They should look like the Briar Queen with a human face, not Vasquez from Aliens.
This. This right here is the crux of the whole thing.
There's not 'repentant' about these. These miniatures don't look like people who are broken with grief and the need to make up for sin (real or otherwise). They're just determined angry buzz-cut girls wielding giant swords. And that'd be fine, if these weren't meant to be Sisters Repentia.
I did see one hilarious/cringe comment on GW's Facebook: "I'm so glad there isn't a Mistresses of Repentance there robbing them of their agency!"
I mean who talks like that?
I feel like we are on the same page with this. I also feel like some of the people who are defending the models are doing this from a starting point of wanting the Repentia to be a representation of strong, empowered, non-sexualised real world females; so that the models strike a chord with certain audiences.
Now I am fully on board with that kind of idea in principle, but selecting Sister Repentia as the vehicle for such as cause is like selecting Tyranid Hive Tyrants as the mascot for an animal rights charity, or cheering for an Eileen Wuornos action figure because said figure's appearance is more realistic looking than a Barbie doll.
Sisters of Battle, especially Sisters Repentia, are not where anybody should be trying to find positive or realistic female representation in the 40K universe. SOBs are psychotic zealots. They possess the Imperium's most fascistic, fanatical and extermist views then spend their entire lives doing nothing but backing those views up with self-righteous violence. There is nothing positive and no worthwhile agency to anything related with SOBs. They are absolute monsters, and of all their subgroups the most abhorrent are the Repentia. Sisters who have first been completely brainwashed into believing the only value they will ever have is the love of the Emperor, then utterly hollowed out by the further revelation that said Emperor has cast them aside.
I'm saying I couldn't find it in a low-effort searchbar function, and low-effort's about all I'm willing to give.
Casbyness wrote: Sisters who have first been completely brainwashed into believing the only value they will ever have is the love of the Emperor, then utterly hollowed out by the further revelation that said Emperor has cast them aside.
And then there was someone who just hasn't read a single bit of lore of the Sisters of Battle at all.
Seriously, this little diatribe, plus you claiming Repentia aren't seeking redemption (even though their redemption-seeking quality has defined them since the very creation of the unit), really puts doubts in my mind on your understanding of them as a concept. Every faction in 40k is monstrous from the outside. Space Marines are horrific abominations against the human genome, who care for nothing but war and death. Tyranids go without saying. Eldar are manipulative, self-important jerks whom either have devolved in to the most horrific kind of hedonism possible, or such hideous self-restraint that they're dying off. Orks are horrifying, nigh-unkillable hordes of insane warmongering killers that bring their own ecosystem everywhere they go, and where they go, they're there for keeps. Even the Imperial Guard is horrifying, with its casual disdain for the lives of anything around it, doing everything for victory. That doesn't stop any individual member of any of them from being heroic and an example which one might wish to emulate.
Melissia wrote: Wasn't in the top ten for me. My guess is that Facebook's algorithms arrange comments differently depending on your facebook history.
Nope it’s definitely the first comment, I guess you just missed it.
A bit more on topic but I still think the biggest issues looking at them is that there likely bigger than the ladies in the power armour to the point were sisters power armour would not fit them. Also looking at the lovely dancer style poses I have a sneaky suspicion that if they stood up straight there going to be taller than power armoured Primaris.
Paint job would do a lot here, I'm sure we're going to some amazing ones once a few good artist start going mad with scripture tattoos across their bare flesh like you have in the Kopinski illustration.
Plus making the brands and cybernetics stand out a little more as being more than just metal rings on healthy flesh.
Power armour is expensive to maintain, not just because you need fancy parts, but probably because you need a lot of drugs to deal with the results of the implantation and neural interfaces. AdMech bionics don't usually leave people with a healthy glow (other than radioactive ones). Becoming Repentia means you're going to have infection and inflammation around your bionics as you're not taking the immunosuppressants any more and can't keep things as sterile as a sister in their cell could. The itch and pain from the one part of you that is still a battle sister is going to always be with you, even if you renounce you allegiance in shame - part of you will always be a battle sister, and that part will hurt until you can redeem yourself.
Pale grimy flesh, but red and inflamed around the ports, and then criss-crossed with tattoos and self flagellant scars, and there would be no doubt what they are or what universe they belong in. You're just missing a layer of texture on the models that the renders don't provide.
Casbyness wrote: And Repentia are not in any way shape or form "looking to earn redemption".
... C:WH disagrees with you. As does every single codex since.
Repentia are Sisters that have failed to live up to the standards of the Adepta Sororitas. They seek to earn redemption for their failures through their service to the Emperor-- either from dying in His name, or by doing astounding deeds that redeems them for their past failures, as in the case of Saint Celestine or any Repentia that earns their way back in to the Sororitas proper.
That is the definition of what a Repentia is, their defining trait.
I think their defining trait is that they've had the one thing that gave their life any meaning taken away from them, and then been told that if they rally their fellow sisters by charging that Lascannon without any protection, self-regard or possible hope of reaching it before said Lascannon blows them to pieces, then maybe...just maybe...the Emperor might not hate them quite so much for being such an abject failure.
Any Repentia who said "I'm fighting in this battle so I can get my honour back" would be shot on the spot. There is no "I" for Repentia, they lost the privilege of being recognised as a person when they dishonoured their Order. I don't disagree that the lore - from a neutral standpoint - states that Repentia seek to earn redemption. It's just that applying the statement to them in first person is like saying Captain America fights bad guys because he wants to earn a medal. That sort of thing doesn't even remotely enter a Repentia's mind.
SeanDrake wrote: Nope it’s definitely the first comment, I guess you just missed it.
Nope. Not in the top ten for me. Also, my response to its existence can be summed up with the letter "k". I'm really not interested much in HBMC's attempt to inject politics in to this thread.
SeanDrake wrote: A bit more on topic but I still think the biggest issues looking at them is that there likely bigger than the ladies in the power armour to the point were sisters power armour would not fit them. Also looking at the lovely dancer style poses I have a sneaky suspicion that if they stood up straight there going to be taller than power armoured Primaris.
That is a good point. I wonder if they're going to be oversized compared to sororitas power armor to look "heroic scale". That might look a little funky side by side.
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Casbyness wrote: Any Repentia who said "I'm fighting in this battle so I can get my honour back" would be shot on the spot.
Then every single Repentia would be shot on the spot according to you.
Of course, for Repentia, it's not about "honor", but about redemption in the eyes of the Emperor for their failings in their past service to He Upon His Golden Throne. You can call that a twisted sense of honor if you really want, but it's really more of a sense of duty. Repentia have failed the Emperor in some fashion. And so, in penitence, they serve as Repentia (thus the name) to seek redemption in His eyes. Most likely this will result in death. But death in service to the Emperor is redemption.
SeanDrake wrote: Nope it’s definitely the first comment, I guess you just missed it.
Nope. Not in the top ten for me. Also, my response to its existence can be summed up with the letter "k". I'm really not interested much in HBMC's attempt to inject politics in to this thread..
Excellent. So how about we stop arguing about whether or not a Facebook comment exists and move on?
As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Then again, GW itself has never used that concept art for Repentia. But the "punk" look of these new miniatures certainly reference the punk nature of that artwork (one of the few Blanche pieces for Sisters that I actually think are okay) pretty accurately, even if htey could have gone a few steps further in that direction.
Melissia wrote: As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Then again, GW itself has never used that concept art for Repentia. But the "punk" look of these new miniatures certainly reference the punk nature of that artwork (one of the few Blanche pieces for Sisters that I actually think are okay) pretty accurately, even if htey could have gone a few steps further in that direction.
Probably because people recognise the naked, wrapped in script versions more. Blanche's influence is becoming increasingly less...influential in 40k. Many of the newer players I've seen flat out dislike Blanche's art.
Melissia wrote: As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I for one would have been much happier with that as a direction for the Repentia.
Sim-Life wrote: Many of the newer players I've seen flat out dislike Blanche's art.
Not just newer players - there's always been a fairly sizeable group who disliked his art. Which will happen with any artist who has a particularly distinctive style. I've grown much more fond of it over the years, but starting out in the '90's when his work was still all over GW's ranges I hated his artwork, while simultaneously loving his ideas, and being continually puzzled as to why there wasn't more effort being put in to make the miniatures reflect the art.
Although in light of GW's current direction, that's one of those 'be careful what you wish for' situations, I guess...
Melissia wrote: I'm saying I couldn't find it in a low-effort searchbar function, and low-effort's about all I'm willing to give.
Casbyness wrote: Sisters who have first been completely brainwashed into believing the only value they will ever have is the love of the Emperor, then utterly hollowed out by the further revelation that said Emperor has cast them aside.
And then there was someone who just hasn't read a single bit of lore of the Sisters of Battle at all.
Seriously, this little diatribe, plus you claiming Repentia aren't seeking redemption (even though their redemption-seeking quality has defined them since the very creation of the unit), really puts doubts in my mind on your understanding of them as a concept. Every faction in 40k is monstrous from the outside. Space Marines are horrific abominations against the human genome, who care for nothing but war and death. Tyranids go without saying. Eldar are manipulative, self-important jerks whom either have devolved in to the most horrific kind of hedonism possible, or such hideous self-restraint that they're dying off. Orks are horrifying, nigh-unkillable hordes of insane warmongering killers that bring their own ecosystem everywhere they go, and where they go, they're there for keeps. Even the Imperial Guard is horrifying, with its casual disdain for the lives of anything around it, doing everything for victory. That doesn't stop any individual member of any of them from being heroic and an example which one might wish to emulate.
As more of an old school player who remembers the original Hammersmith store, I'm disturbed by the idea of finding any character in 40k 'heroic' or worthy of emulation. Maybe the Deathwing protagonists from the Space Hulk expansion of the same name, but even then not really.
Melissia wrote: As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Then again, GW itself has never used that concept art for Repentia. But the "punk" look of these new miniatures certainly reference the punk nature of that artwork (one of the few Blanche pieces for Sisters that I actually think are okay) pretty accurately, even if htey could have gone a few steps further in that direction.
That was art made for the Inquisitor 54mm game, right? It was never intended as art representing Repentia as a whole, just that one who was serving an Inquisitor (hence the armor, guns, and lack of an Eviscerator).
While I would rather have models based on the Kopinski art that has been shown, I would happily take models based on this piece over what we have.
I still see what we have in this thread as a vast improvement over the current ones. Probably the only thing that actually bothers me is how disturbingly deep the brands are on their forehead. They're basically bone-deep. But ritual scarification does fit Repentia so eh?
Melissia wrote: I still see what we have in this thread as a vast improvement over the current ones. Probably the only thing that actually bothers me is how disturbingly deep the brands are on their forehead. They're basically bone-deep. But ritual scarification does fit Repentia so eh?
I mentioned that a while back. I’ve been talking about it somewhere else, and we think paint will help make it look less weird.
Melissia wrote: Just because you don't have time to read up on the past 25+ years of setting development doesn't mean it doesn't exist
Wait I know this one, I remember how this works from back in the early 2000s.
Two people disagree about X, so one of them starts to add implied insults and unsupported barbs to their comments. First something like "I'm not even sure if you even understand X at all", then later moving on to more obvious bait like "just because you're clearly ignorant of everything about X, doesn't mean the rest of us are".
Comments that are intended to sting and provoke a response, for the sake of an argument.
Hmm, what's the next move that the responder is supposed to use in this game?
Oh I remember - they just rise above it and move on with their life.
I don't know the lore and I didn't know what the original models looked like, but I think these are the worst models I think I've ever seen GW make. They just completely lack that sense of over the top heavy metal grimdark. No style at all. They are the worst thing that a model can be - boring.
Then I come in this thread and see all sorts of amazing art (I like the Blanche picture) and pictures of the previous models and my disappointment is heavily increased. Those models have some fething style. I look at them and I can feel the angry zealotry.
I was planning on starting a SoB army when they came out, but I've been extremely nonplussed by the renders showed to date. They are just sort of there, and I've been wracking my brains trying to figure out why these models feel so bland compared to the technically inferior metal ones, thinking that they'll probably look better when painted - but today's renders have completely turned me off of getting the army. Who wants to run a army of soccer moms who just got out of their spin class?
I don't think it is purely political correctness, but it does feel like the redesign has its roots in political correctness. I'm not a fan of companies fixing things which aren't broken out of an irrational fear of their customers, but if that's the way you have to go, then do it better, GW. Up until now, it seems like every female model EXCEPT Sisters of Battle has been awesome.
Melissia wrote: As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I for one would have been much happier with that as a direction for the Repentia.
Sim-Life wrote: Many of the newer players I've seen flat out dislike Blanche's art.
Not just newer players - there's always been a fairly sizeable group who disliked his art. Which will happen with any artist who has a particularly distinctive style. I've grown much more fond of it over the years, but starting out in the '90's when his work was still all over GW's ranges I hated his artwork, while simultaneously loving his ideas, and being continually puzzled as to why there wasn't more effort being put in to make the miniatures reflect the art.
Honestly, for most of his really influential period, making the miniatures reflect his art just wasn't feasible- and I mean that from a modeling/casting perspective. The spinebreaker heels and other delicate details just didn't work the few times they tried them. Even in modern plastics the posterchild Blanche Sister ('Canoness Veridyan') has several points where the proportions and details just don't work and the sculptor had to compromise in a fairly clunky way. (Heels, right leg, pistol, etc)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand I`m getting metal repentias while they are still on sale.
Sigh. They look stale. Every warcry warband turned out to be more interesting, than a redesign of one of the most grim dark iconic units in the game.
Melissia wrote: I still see what we have in this thread as a vast improvement over the current ones. Probably the only thing that actually bothers me is how disturbingly deep the brands are on their forehead. They're basically bone-deep. But ritual scarification does fit Repentia so eh?
I don't think that's going to be a problem when translated into plastic. Even so, it should be paintable for the folks that aren't strong painters. Anyone that is a strong painter can easily paint to minimize the appearance of depth, or will have the skills to fill it in with putty.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
I like the new repentia mostly because she looks really weird and different from most other similar miniatures, and also crazed. When I want bondage chicks with chainsaws (who doesn't, from time to time?), a dozen third party manufacturers are there for me, far more over the top than GW ever could be in a company hoping to be family/game store friendly. The sneakers and sack/tennis skirt are once both strange and reasonable. I'd want running shoes too, if I had to charge forward with a chainsaw into gunfire.
Don't love the power armor ports, but eh, Ok.
If I ever do a sisters of battle army, I'm going to do a conclave of different chapters, and use figures from all the great ranges out there - from realistic plate armor, to basically nudes with bolters. Its a big galaxy, and a big internet. I figure SOB chapters range from more or less sensible pious warriors to complete wack jobs, to some Cardinal's fantasy bodyguard. Your fluff (and taste) may vary, of course.
*in short, whatever you think of them, GW managed to come up with something DIFFERENT from what is out there and has gone before*
Melissia wrote: I still see what we have in this thread as a vast improvement over the current ones. Probably the only thing that actually bothers me is how disturbingly deep the brands are on their forehead. They're basically bone-deep. But ritual scarification does fit Repentia so eh?
From a practical standpoint, that makes it a lot easier to paint. I'd never be able to freehand a fleur on a head and have it look good. I have no idea how people do them on cheeks, I had planned to print decals when the time came.
Well, I think we can all agree that the models are superior to the original Fraternis Militia. We just need to swap out the Eviscerators for more primitive swords/guns.
Those legs, that can crush marine helmets... ugh.
I didn’t know Sisters repented in pajamas.
GW has trouble with sculpting muscles. Another glaring examples - Fyreslayers, Warcry warbands like hunters and dudes with fans.
I guess it’s just a weak part of CAD design, that GW hasn’t cought up with. One can do marvelous things in ZBrush, which have hand sculpted quality.
At least regular sisters look good.
I will probably get repentias in metal this August, a squad of Primaris to convert them into true scale regular black Templar marines and wait for the plastic release.
I hope we get some crazy new units, which won’t be a drool to look at. Penitent engine.. what will become of you???
I like them. They look like they are fighting in their PTs with some devotional charms stuck on them and some pain inducing devotional items. But they still look like they are highly trained professional military stuck facing draconian punishment.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
Why? Seriously. What about these figures speaks to you? Because whatever beauty your beholder is eyeing, I ain't seeing it.
Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
They don’t look crazed, they look angry. They don’t look like women, they are not too far away from being built like Goliath gangers (which look pretty cartoonish and too exaggerated). They do have a chainsword.
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
I keep hearing this, and yet, no one actually provides anything other than just saying it.
They got boobs. They got feminine faces. Their hips are wider than their waists. They look plenty feminine to me. Seen women at the gym who don't look too far off that.
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
Please, these women are way too swole to go to starbucks. They need their protein shakes to keep those muscles up.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
Why? Seriously. What about these figures speaks to you? Because whatever beauty your beholder is eyeing, I ain't seeing it.
Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
They don’t look crazed, they look angry. They don’t look like women, they are not too far away from being built like Goliath gangers (which look pretty cartoonish and too exaggerated). They do have a chainsword.
Too masculine, is bad model.
Sqorgar wrote:
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
I don't have a problem with feminine. I have a problem with them looking like soccer moms on a morning jog. They are about as threatening as that middle aged lady who loudly counts how many items are in your cart behind you in the 10 items or less lane.
I'd like them to be more feminine though. Even without the bondage gear, the earlier Repentias look both buff as hell and feminine - ladies you don't want to feth with. The new ones all look like they get together to discuss romance novels over tea.
I don't have a problem with feminine. I have a problem with them looking like soccer moms on a morning jog. They are about as threatening as that middle aged lady who loudly counts how many items are in your cart behind you in the 10 items or less lane.
I'd like them to be more feminine though. Even without the bondage gear, the earlier Repentias look both buff as hell and feminine - ladies you don't want to feth with. The new ones all look like they get together to discuss romance novels over tea.
Yah if you keep stretching like this your going to pull something.
Definitely classic dakkadakka story making to explain why your not digging a model your secretly going to buy.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
Why? Seriously. What about these figures speaks to you? Because whatever beauty your beholder is eyeing, I ain't seeing it.
Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
They don’t look crazed, they look angry. They don’t look like women, they are not too far away from being built like Goliath gangers (which look pretty cartoonish and too exaggerated). They do have a chainsword.
Too masculine, is bad model.
Sqorgar wrote:
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
Too feminine, is bad model.
....Dakkadakka folks.
Well, people do have different opinions, so yeah.
If dropping the feminine/masculine dispute, the way muscles are sculpted is still underwhelming. The only good thing I can say about them- I like the poses. Someho I find this design lacking in character. And what the hell is with a 2 inch missing puzzle piece in their foreheads? They make this detail so freaking massive, yet we see cad designs, where the sculptor doesn’t bother too much with making braids of hair, which makes it look like a big piece of melted bubble gum
Sqorgar wrote: I don't have a problem with feminine. I have a problem with them looking like soccer moms on a morning jog.
They don't.
insaniak wrote:
BrotherGecko wrote:Yah if you keep stretching like this your going to pull something.
Actually, stretching helps warm up the muscle so that you don't pull anything, and if you do, stretching is an important part of the healing process. I learned this with the other soccer moms and Repentia in my aerobics class at the gym.
Definitely classic dakkadakka story making to explain why your not digging a model your secretly going to buy.
I don't actually play 40k, and these models are literally the thing that have turned me against starting a Sisters of Battle army. Like, I was going to play 40k, now I'm not.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
Why? Seriously. What about these figures speaks to you? Because whatever beauty your beholder is eyeing, I ain't seeing it.
Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
They don’t look crazed, they look angry. They don’t look like women, they are not too far away from being built like Goliath gangers (which look pretty cartoonish and too exaggerated). They do have a chainsword.
Too masculine, is bad model.
Sqorgar wrote:
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
Too feminine, is bad model.
....Dakkadakka folks.
Well, people do have different opinions, so yeah.
If dropping the feminine/masculine dispute, the way muscles are sculpted is still underwhelming. The only good thing I can say about them- I like the poses. Someho I find this design lacking in character. And what the hell is with a 2 inch missing puzzle piece in their foreheads? They make this detail so freaking massive, yet we see cad designs, where the sculptor doesn’t bother too much with making braids of hair, which makes it look like a big piece of melted bubble gum
Certainly people have different opinions but one thinks they look like little soccer moms and you think they look like the Hulkster. So one of you is wrong and I want to see y'all fight over it.
That proves about as much as this proves that all marines are flamboyant and campy. If you deliberately go out of your way to paint something to look ridiculous... WHAT A SHOCK! It will look ridiculous.
I really like these, GW is nailing this release as far as I'm concerned.
Why? Seriously. What about these figures speaks to you? Because whatever beauty your beholder is eyeing, I ain't seeing it.
Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
They don’t look crazed, they look angry. They don’t look like women, they are not too far away from being built like Goliath gangers (which look pretty cartoonish and too exaggerated). They do have a chainsword.
Too masculine, is bad model.
Sqorgar wrote:
Melissia wrote: Let's see, crazed warrior women seeking redemption through death with gigantic power-chainsaws? Yep, has everything I could ask for in a Repentia.
"I will seek redemption through death with this gigantic power-chainsaw!!! Just as soon as my hot yoga class gets out!!! YEARGH!!! Between the Starbucks and the Trader Joe's is my rage!!!!"
Too feminine, is bad model.
....Dakkadakka folks.
Well, people do have different opinions, so yeah.
If dropping the feminine/masculine dispute, the way muscles are sculpted is still underwhelming. The only good thing I can say about them- I like the poses. Someho I find this design lacking in character. And what the hell is with a 2 inch missing puzzle piece in their foreheads? They make this detail so freaking massive, yet we see cad designs, where the sculptor doesn’t bother too much with making braids of hair, which makes it look like a big piece of melted bubble gum
Certainly people have different opinions but one thinks they look like little soccer moms and you think they look like the Hulkster. So one of you is wrong and I want to see y'all fight over it.
Well, you have to prepare an inflatable swimming pool filled with chocolate first. You know the rules.
Sqorgar wrote: I don't have a problem with feminine. I have a problem with them looking like soccer moms on a morning jog.
They don't.
insaniak wrote:
Spoiler:
.
That would be some scary soccer mum.
Honestly, I'm not seeing the complaint, here. While I think the outfits are horrible, their builds are perfect. They're clearly female, but they also clearly built like actual fighters, with actual muscles instead of the swimsuit model build that we normally wind up with for female warrior miniatures. On that, at least, I think GW have found a perfect balance, and it's one place that they're definitely better than the preceding metal models.
I was about to invoke the Commorragh slaves, saying “at least they don’t look like this”, but apparently the models no longer exist on the GW store. Finally.
Melissia wrote: Seen women at the gym who don't look too far off that.
Exactly my point.
So your point… is that repentia… look like they train for their job, and are similar to real life women, hence don't look like women?
Sqorgar wrote: The new ones all look like they get together to discuss romance novels over tea.
Hey honey, how many sugars for your tea?
..\
I'll take two, thanks!
..\
Casbyness wrote: As more of an old school player who remembers the original Hammersmith store, I'm disturbed by the idea of finding any character in 40k 'heroic' or worthy of emulation.
I'm not sold on the new repentia models.
I mean, I'm not sold on repentia- have a full squad of them that I never field because they just don't perform on the table except as a 200-odd point handicap.
I was hoping for a look more akin to that artwork from the Witch hunters codex- covered in scrolls etc. This "updated" look does not meet that hoped for artwork and just doesn't appeal to me.
Good to see the musculature that is hidden under all the Battle sisters power armour.
Think my biggest complaint just comes down to that they don't look female enough to me. The torsos look like something from a catachan guard kit...hmm, female catachan guard conversions I foresee with this.
I'd always assumed the plug ports were an interface for the black carapace on marines which is why I initially thought it odd these models had them. Not a fan of them myself.
LOVE the eviscerators on them though, they look beasty.
To each their own, some will love the look and get a whole army of them. Me, I'll stick with what I've already got.
So your point… is that repentia… look like they train for their job, and are similar to real life women, hence don't look like women?
No, it is that they are dressed like women in their exercise clothes. It's too contemporary looking and it really takes away from the gothic feel of the Sisters of Battle. It'd be like if a Space Marine was wearing a t-shirt and cut-offs. Oh, look, the Space Marine looks like a real life man - but he's in fething cut-offs. Who cares if he looks like a real life man if he looks stupid? These Repentia models are wearing tennis shoes and in either their exercise clothes or their pajamas. Those big swords may as well be hedge trimmers for all of the suburban feel they have. I don't want my models to be practical and realistic. I want the models to exude theme and style. If I'm going to play 40k, I want gothic grimdark, not LEGO Friends.
"So your point is..." - No. That's not not my point. Don't put words in my mouth in an attempt to make me out to be a misogynist. This has nothing to do with the "women" part of the equation and everything to do with them being lazy models in ugly outfits that have all of the charm of a strip mall parking lot.
GW does some amazing female models. I thought the Daughters of Khaine update was brilliant, and what they've done with the Sylvaneth is beyond cool. The female Stormcasts and some of the Warcry characters, I also love. When you compare those models to the Druhkari or the scant other female models they had before that, they are a huge improvement in every way. I think they know the SoB will have a lot of eyes outside of their regular fans (similar to Slaanesh), so they've decided to play it bland/safe when they should really be going the extra mile to blow us away. Safe GW is terrible, every time. GW really excels when they are surprising, weird, and a little bit dangerous.
Scrolls back. Sees lunatics with forehead brands, knives rammed though legs and going into battle blindfold.
Sigh. Never change, dakka....
(Also, like the interface plugs. Really makes it seem like their armour is permanent in combat, rather than something with an MIU you can take off when you feel like it)
A friend just said there like beige given miniature form, which seems about right.
They look like the perfect example of design by committee there repentia after they have been de40ked.
I mean even the ritual nails etc look more safe,sane and consensual than grimdark, except the fleur de lobotomy that jut looks gak.
I quite like them myself: good poses, nicely muscled without being over the top, cool faces... also, remember these are renders, so details are exaggerated: these will look different when ported to plastics.
The robes I'm less enthused with. Not horrible, just... kinda there. I would have preferred something along the lines of Blanche's, but well, it doesn't bother me that much.
I also see really great potential for cross conversion between these gals and the Eschers sprue.
If they are not stupid expensive I see myself buying some, which is something I won't ever say of the older ones.
SeanDrake wrote: A friend just said there like beige given miniature form, which seems about right.
They look like the perfect example of design by committee there repentia after they have been de40ked.
I mean even the ritual nails etc look more safe,sane and consensual than grimdark, except the fleur de lobotomy that jut looks gak.
Do you know how how it comes across when you choose to describe a plastic model as "consensual"?
I do like the fact that they wear what clearly looks like basic clothes a sister might wear when out of power armor, not some weird bandage bikini that implied they spend more time worrying about looking good than killing enemies of the emperor.
Scrolls back. Sees lunatics with forehead brands, knives rammed though legs and going into battle blindfold.
Sigh. Never change, dakka....
Not sure which thread you were looking at, because there's been a much praise as criticism in this one. Some people like them, some don't. If you do, good for you.
parakuribo wrote: Why is everyone saying they are wearing fitness clothes? In some of the pics, it looks like they are either wearing minidresses or miniskirts.
Would've preferred it if they were wearing a full robe though...
Part of the issue is that these are renders not models nor painted models and that influences how some people interpret the designs and appearance.
Sqorgar wrote: No, it is that they are dressed like women in their exercise clothes.
Well, it wasn't easy to gues, because you were quoting Melissia, who obviously was talking about their build and frame, not their clothes.
Sqorgar wrote: "So your point is..." - No. That's not not my point. Don't put words in my mouth in an attempt to make me out to be a misogynist.
That was a question, ending with an interrogation mark, that gave you the opportunity to clarify what you meant. Because I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who misunderstood your point.
Sqorgar wrote: I think they know the SoB will have a lot of eyes outside of their regular fans (similar to Slaanesh), so they've decided to play it bland/safe when they should really be going the extra mile to blow us away.
I don't think a lot of eye outside of regular GW fans are looking at Sisters of Battle, to be honest.
But yeah, I agree that they could have gone more over the top, especially on the clothing. Still a massive improvement compared to the old ones, and a great base to build upon.
Well they're muscular, but still not as muscular as Alarielle the Russian Bodybuilder queen, who is a stick figure in old WHFB. And I know lots of people love that model
parakuribo wrote: Why is everyone saying they are wearing fitness clothes? In some of the pics, it looks like they are either wearing minidresses or miniskirts.
Would've preferred it if they were wearing a full robe though...
Part of the issue is that these are renders not models nor painted models and that influences how some people interpret the designs and appearance.
I couldn’t tell anything apart when I first saw the renders. They were just vaguely human shaped grey blobs.
SeanDrake wrote: A friend just said there like beige given miniature form, which seems about right.
They look like the perfect example of design by committee there repentia after they have been de40ked.
I mean even the ritual nails etc look more safe,sane and consensual than grimdark, except the fleur de lobotomy that jut looks gak.
Do you know how how it comes across when you choose to describe a plastic model as "consensual"?
Do you know what the word consensual means? It's not just a sex thing. What Sister who would choose to be a repentia in the sense that they WANT to do it? No Sister wakes up in the morning and thinks "I really feel like I want to be stripped of my humanity, dignity and agency today." Being a repentia is something they feel they HAVE to do because they feel that they have failed or transgressed their faith and need to make amends in the eyes of the Emperor.
Sure, some Sisters CHOOSE to become repentia but thats because their devotion is so strong that they join the repentia due to their own self-perceived failings and they feel like the only way to alleviate their guilt (self-percieved or otherwise) is to repent. Unless you think Sisters consent to failing or self-self-perceived notions of failure?
And again this is another reason I think these models aren't great. I don't get any sense of repentance or, possibly more importantly, despair from them. Repentia are sisters at their lowest and I don't get that from these models. I agree with the people who say they're sanitised, its a good way to describe them. Maybe they'll look better when they're painted and stuff like blood from the eye bandages and stuff can be added.
Also I can't see how anyone can defend the shoes. They're throwing themselves to their death but their main concern is sensible footwear? Bare feet would actually go a long way towards fixing the models. Giving them shoes humanizes and civilizes them to which are both things they're supposed to have given up when they became repentia.
I'm slightly baffled why you think throwing themselves to the death means you'd go barefoot on a 40k battlefield full of shrapnel. That means you're less likely to get to actually hit the enemies of the Emperor before injuring your foot too much to run tbh.
I don't really see the gym gear here. They're wearing undersmocks, like... real nuns do?
The Phazer wrote: That means you're less likely to get to actually hit the enemies of the Emperor before injuring your foot too much to run tbh.
To be fair, not wearing armor also means you are less likely to actually hit the enemies of the Emperor before being injured too much. And blinding yourself also doesn't help to actually hit the enemies of the emperor. And... well, being a repentia generally makes you less likely to actually hit the enemies of the emperor, and more likely to die, in general, because of so many small reasons.
Wow, lots of sexism and toxic masculinity here. Obviously, these are very well sculpted models, even some might not appreciate the design choices. Come on, it's 2019, there's no way the mainstream number 1 in tabletop gaming can release a bunch of naked degraded women with fantasy sexualised body types. Things change, and that's a good thing.
The response from all female wargamers and painters I've read so far were all pretty positive and thankful that the models aren't just "breasts and swords". Keep your imagination to adult magazines
To be honest, I understand people not liking these renders. To me, it feels indeed there's less "grimdark" in them. But then maybe if we add more seals, scrolls and skulls to cover the main base, it would be better ? We still don't know what will be on the sprue, after all.
I like their build, they're muscular women indeed and you can feel you don't want to face them in a brawl. They also look clearly feminine and you can feel their anger from their faces. I think some are better showing their status than others.
The implants on their skin is a first on sisters, but that's okay. I admit I saw them first instead of the scars and knifes stuck in their flesh.
Their main clothes is certainly the less liked part so far. It feels bland. I understand why it should be, but that's the part I feel has the less "grimdark". Because it's bland, you don't get that "40k" over the top feeling. There aren't enough skulls, scrolls, seals, reminder of a dystopia future where they think technology is mystical. Cover them with more of those and I believe the feeling will be a lot more different.
Something like this, for example :
EDIT : on another thought, I have another feeling from the renders...they look like what could be space marine women without their armor. Maybe the strong dislike is also coming from that feeling ?
The Phazer wrote: I'm slightly baffled why you think throwing themselves to the death means you'd go barefoot on a 40k battlefield full of shrapnel. That means you're less likely to get to actually hit the enemies of the Emperor before injuring your foot too much to run tbh.
I don't really see the gym gear here. They're wearing undersmocks, like... real nuns do?
I literally explained my issues with the footwear in the last paragraph. You're allowed to make concessions on logic and realism in order to artistically convey a concept via symbolism.
Also, if you're a branded, pierced, blinded zealot getting a cut on your foot is the least of your worries.
So we don't like authentic casual like shoes but platform high heels are fine?
Sometimes I think the impression and interpretation of grim-dark is so extreme in some peoples imagination that no model could ever faithfully represent it.
Also for those talking about the pose not looking repentant enough I think they are forgetting that these are warriors going to war and that for them to repent is to give themselves fully into battle for their God. So it makes sense that they have a more powerful and aggressive stance. These aren't like the half undressed raving maniacs that might appear in Old World in droves to fight for Sigmar; these are warriors trained to the highest level who have failed and fallen from grace who seek to redeem themselves through battle. Because of that they are going to be more powerfully built, better fed, better trained and more warrior-like. They might be stripped of their armour, but not their training
xttz wrote: Do you know how how it comes across when you choose to describe a plastic model as "consensual"?
SSC is a common turn of phrase in... other hobbies. It's a reasonable connection honestly.
I'm somewhat surprised by the hate on these models, even from dakka. The arms, heads and legs can clearly be swapped around, each model has at least 3 purity seals, they're significantly more scarred and grizzled than the old models, they actually look like they have enough musculature to lift their weapons and the poses are significantly more dynamic. Fair enough if you dislike the sculpts, but some of the complaints are so bizarre: they don't look like women (they really do), they have to many muscles (they aren't even as muscled as half the women at my gym), they're not wounded enough (they're substantially more wounded than the old models, every single one has multiple scars and at least on other disfiguration), etc. If you're gonna be disingenuous about wanting them to be in a greater stage of undress, just say that instead of throwing out flimsy excuses which are visibly untrue; you'll look dumb, but you'll at least look dumb and have a shred of integrity instead of merely the former.
Overread wrote: So we don't like authentic casual like shoes but platform high heels are fine?
Sometimes I think the impression and interpretation of grim-dark is so extreme in some peoples imagination that no model could ever faithfully represent it.
Also for those talking about the pose not looking repentant enough I think they are forgetting that these are warriors going to war and that for them to repent is to give themselves fully into battle for their God. So it makes sense that they have a more powerful and aggressive stance. These aren't like the half undressed raving maniacs that might appear in Old World in droves to fight for Sigmar; these are warriors trained to the highest level who have failed and fallen from grace who seek to redeem themselves through battle. Because of that they are going to be more powerfully built, better fed, better trained and more warrior-like. They might be stripped of their armour, but not their training
I think it is this picture that is the main culprit :
It gave such a strong feeling in the minds of people that they are expecting nothing less than this for repentia sisters - even though the miniatures were never that crazy (they always had shoes, after all).
It comes back often in the arguments. That's why people got to see repentia as half-naked crazed women likely to die from their self bad treatment than from the enemies themselves.
You have other pictures on the internet for Repentia sisters, fan made, that are quite more NSFW most of the time. It also doesn't help when you see the difference between these pictures and the renders.
Overread wrote: So we don't like authentic casual like shoes but platform high heels are fine?
Honestly was expecting wraps or bare feet personally, like I said earlier, they're a bit more practical than I expected, which isn't a horrible thing. They look like penitents in sackcloth with some basic military considerations... so I'd say they've more or less hit the mark, just not the one I was expecting. I was expecting a more frothing at the mouth look, got determined instead. Guessing the arco flagellants will do the frothing if they're re done.
That said, if they make the exorcist practical they'll be breaking my heart.
Sarouan wrote: To be honest, I understand people not liking these renders.
If I were to list a few -
-Shoulders are badly fitting
-Repentia look fresh from the gym and could to with being more tattered, starved, and feral
-Gym shorts, not robes
-Gym shoes, not boots or bare footed
-Scrolls are too stiff with little suggestion of motion/rotation compared to the poses
-No chains around the wrists, or chains/cords/robe in general. The clothing is very clean and sterile in appearance and don't give any sense of movement
-Rectangular bodyshape due to belts/posture
-Only one hood. I know some people like the branded heads but they aren't for me - it looks like they were punched in the face by a marine with a fluer-shaped knuckle
I could go either way on the plugs, though i'm leaning towards them being too distinctively 'black carapace/marine'.
Although I can feel they miss the mark of some of the excellent artwork, they are still amazing miniatures with both realistic proportions/muscles and good fighting poses.
GW obviously went in a direction not everybody likes (I love the Vasques-post) - but the execution of that choice is flawless.
They will become important assets in my Inq28 warbands.
stahly wrote: Wow, lots of sexism and toxic masculinity here. Obviously, these are very well sculpted models, even some might not appreciate the design choices. Come on, it's 2019, there's no way the mainstream number 1 in tabletop gaming can release a bunch of naked degraded women with fantasy sexualised body types. Things change, and that's a good thing.
The response from all female wargamers and painters I've read so far were all pretty positive and thankful that the models aren't just "breasts and swords". Keep your imagination to adult magazines
Which thread are you reading? The vast majority of people who have issues with these models have listed reasons that are nothing whatsoever to do with them not having boobs on display.
Overread wrote: So we don't like authentic casual like shoes but platform high heels are fine?
I like this strawman. I think I've seen maybe one person say they liked the old models?
Feh. That's because the topic isn't about who liked the old models. There are more people than this who liked them. I liked them, had 30 of those in my old metal army. But then Wargame Exclusive came and I admit I took those instead.
For sure, these renders give a far more different vision of repentias. I don't dislike that, but it will take some time for me to get used to them.
Overread wrote: These aren't like the half undressed raving maniacs that might appear in Old World in droves to fight for Sigmar; these are warriors trained to the highest level who have failed and fallen from grace who seek to redeem themselves through battle.
In old word terms, those aren't flagellant, they are slayers. And slayers are indeed pretty buff.
A.T. wrote: -No chains around the wrists, or chains/cords/robe in general.
Great Repentia in my oppinion. Better than I could have hoped given the concept.
I admit the shoes are a bit weird, but all in all I like the more realistic proportions GW is going for these days.
And Im sure there are plenty of alternative sculpts on the internet for those who prefer.
Well... Those are really ugly models. No idea what they were thinking, they have changed the previous design a bit too much, in my opinion.
And I think they look too much like men, and they don't look like belonging to 40k... Almost all female figures by GW have the same problem, they don't look like women in many cases, it seems like they choose to make miniature females awful, when other of their models are brilliant.
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes, Artel W, Wargame Exclusive, etc... that have enough good looking proxies in case someone dislike a certain unit or model.
Overread wrote: So we don't like authentic casual like shoes but platform high heels are fine?
I like this strawman. I think I've seen maybe one person say they liked the old models?
Feh. That's because the topic isn't about who liked the old models. There are more people than this who liked them. I liked them, had 30 of those in my old metal army. But then Wargame Exclusive came and I admit I took those instead.
For sure, these renders give a far more different vision of repentias. I don't dislike that, but it will take some time for me to get used to them.
But the assumption that because people dislike these models so they MUST like everything about the old model or we wanted nudey bondage ladies is a strawman and not at all reflective of most peoples actual issues with the models.
I don't like them. to the people saying "they are better sculpts than the old ones" id just like to say i would hope so, considering my searches for the original Repentia dated them to 2004. if that is indeed true, 15ish years should indeed mean something on general model quality.
I'm not sure precisely what is wrong with them to me, but the thoughts "boring" and "not religious enough" do come to mind. maybe it's the plugs throwing me off when I expected more built-in scars (incidentally, wheres the mistress of repentence? they had a solid parallel to flagellants in that as well as dwarven slayers in general- thus maybe why im expecting the scars, guess another do-it-yourself...). maybe it's the clothing I still can't quite even figure when looking at the render. heck, as much as i hate to say this i almost wish they gave them fuller, if tattered robes, Even if that goes against the ceremony to become a Repentia. in the end the only picture i liked was the fourth one due to the extra head bits, detracted by the bionic arm.
Evicerator-sized swing and a miss for me. can't say i favored the old ones very much either especially in game,but im not replacing them with these.
Melissia wrote:As an aside, I'm surprised so few have referenced the Blanche concept art for Repentia given how much people say they love his artwork and influence on the setting.
Spoiler:
Then again, GW itself has never used that concept art for Repentia.
Taarnak wrote:That was art made for the Inquisitor 54mm game, right?
I don't know if the art was made specifically for Inquisitor, but is was directly translated into an Inquisitor miniature, namely this one:
IIRC the character profile which accompanied the miniature described the repentia as Battle Sisters who had been exiled from their order for being dogmatically inadequate, but whose (relatively) free-thinking nature made them excellent agents for less puritanical inquisitors. I think that this Inquisitor character may have predated the Witch Hunters codex and the Reprentia as we now know them.
Melissia wrote:Then again, GW itself has never used that concept art for Repentia.
Citadel Journal #49, page 28. 2002.
The image comes from the Inquisitor sketchbook (2001) and was later used for the first generation of repentia rules, along with a conversion guide using an escher model.
But the assumption that because people dislike these models so they MUST like everything about the old model or we wanted nudey bondage ladies is a strawman and not at all reflective of most peoples actual issues with the models.
If there is such an assumption, it is indeed a bad one. But I don't think that was the point here. The point is the only models we had so far are the metal ones, and the metal ones were never as crazy as they were pictured on some of the GW official drawings.
The drawings are the main reason people think Repentias should be half naked crazed women with no shoe. The miniatures were never that far that way.
Warpspy wrote: And I think they look too much like men
[...]
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes
Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?
Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.
Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.
Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.
For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.
so for what they're wearing, obviously opinions will differ but my reading is it's supposed to be a simple 1 piece tunic not too dissimiler from this
and honestly, thats about what I'd imagine a pentinent wearing, nothing fancy. not some weird torture gear, just humble cheap clothing. the type of thing they proably wore as young girls in the schola.
But the assumption that because people dislike these models so they MUST like everything about the old model or we wanted nudey bondage ladies is a strawman and not at all reflective of most peoples actual issues with the models.
If there is such an assumption, it is indeed a bad one. But I don't think that was the point here. The point is the only models we had so far are the metal ones, and the metal ones were never as crazy as they were pictured on some of the GW official drawings.
The drawings are the main reason people think Repentias should be half naked crazed women with no shoe. The miniatures were never that far that way.
What's wrong with expecting new models to look like the official art thats been in use for nearly 20 years?
Too sci-fi, not enough masochistic gothic fanaticism. I could handle the clothing choice if the rest of the design was good, but between then ugly and nonsensical power armor interface ports and lack of anything that really says “self inflicted punishment”, these just don’t look good. They look like the crew of a spaceship from a generic sci-fi series, who are angry that they got woken up from their cryo/stasis sleep too soon.
At least we’ll get nice plastic two handed chainsword bits to use for INQ28/Necromunda conversions.
BrianDavion wrote: so for what they're wearing, obviously opinions will differ but my reading is it's supposed to be a simple 1 piece tunic not too dissimiler from this
and honestly, thats about what I'd imagine a pentinent wearing, nothing fancy. not some weird torture gear, just humble cheap clothing. the type of thing they proably wore as young girls in the schola.
I'm pretty sure a big part of the repentia ritual is the symbolic shredding and wearing of their habits.
Casbyness wrote: About the Matrix style "ports" in the skin. Here's my issue with those:
Sisters wear habits under their power armour. Robes long enough that the sleeves and bottoms fall out of said armour to a significant degree.
Are we now saying those robes have multiple holes punched through them, so the sister's body can interface directly with the armour? Really?
Try sticking something to your forearm and upper arm, then making holes in a top so that they accommodate the objects that are stuck in place, when your arm is outstretched. Now try bending your arm at the shoulder or elbow, and see what happens to the clothing.
Now imagine you have the same issue of the robe being tugged and ripped every which way, each time you twist your body or bend your spine.
Now imagine you're a Seraphim, jumping flying and bouncing all over the battlefield, wearing power armour locked directly to your body in fixed locations, like a Space Marine, but with an intervening robe chafing constantly in-between.
The ports are complete nonsense.
Good lord. You're right. That IS unrealistic.
They've really jumped the shark with these futuristic space nun warriors.
But the assumption that because people dislike these models so they MUST like everything about the old model or we wanted nudey bondage ladies is a strawman and not at all reflective of most peoples actual issues with the models.
If there is such an assumption, it is indeed a bad one. But I don't think that was the point here. The point is the only models we had so far are the metal ones, and the metal ones were never as crazy as they were pictured on some of the GW official drawings.
The drawings are the main reason people think Repentias should be half naked crazed women with no shoe. The miniatures were never that far that way.
What's wrong with expecting new models to look like the official art thats been in use for nearly 20 years?
well when people have been saying "this'll proably get changed as it comes off as kinda sexist now adays" for the past 15....
zend wrote: lack of anything that really says “self inflicted punishment”
Are we even looking at the same renders?
Spikes inserted in to flesh. Massive, painfully deep brandings. A metal ring around a thigh with spikes pointing inside. Ritual scars upon the face and limbs. A map of scars upon a bare scalp.
The "self-inflicted punishment" is there, on each model. Yeah they could have more of it. But it's still there.
I'm guessing you can probably use some of the warcry cultists if you want a super emaciated body-horror type repentia, or even just elements from that. Personally, I'm just glad with how non-grimdark the new space marine units have gotten that we're finally getting a little more Chainsword back into 40k.
Sure, they're de-sexified like we all knew they would be and sure, someone just gave them clothes by selecting areas of the cad model and hitting "Extrude 2mm" rather than doing any kind of creative robe/habit or whatever, but I give them an A for fun combat poses, cool head sculpts and cool weapons.
Now I shall sit back and continue to chuckle every time someone who apparently hasn't ever seen an athletic woman in their entire life complain about how manly they are.
Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
I can see why those hoping for more over-the-top, more graphic figures are disappointed. It is perhaps not unexpected that the new figures would not represent the established artwork, but I can see how some would have preferred to see something along those lines.
But those that feel Raging Heroes or Brother Vinni have anything in their catalogue that resembled what you expected to see, well, I don't even know where to start. Is it the overly sexualised nature of those figures? Yeah, that's not what I would expect from GW in 2019. Moreover, unless I'm looking at the wrong figures, those are in no way a vague approximation of Repentia. The new sculpts, whatever you think of them, certainly fit most of the characteristics. They may not be perfect, but they most certainly are a better representation of the lore than those designs.
I really like them. I had been wondering how GW was going to up-date their look (of even if they were), and I even tried my hand at a version myself, but this is pretty dam good. Looks like I'll be getting some Repentia this time round.
Melissia wrote: The "self-inflicted punishment" is there, on each model. Yeah they could have more of it. But it's still there.
Agreed. This is the closet thing I have to a criticism (and not even really that). I think the problem is the ports take up a little too-much of the design space, and to add more of the Pain-Bling without removing them would probably make the models a little too busy.
Maybe we should think of them, not as interface ports, but 'Pain Studs'; stamped into their flesh so each movement is shot through with appropriately chastising pain.
BrianDavion wrote: so for what they're wearing, obviously opinions will differ but my reading is it's supposed to be a simple 1 piece tunic not too dissimiler from this
Spoiler:
and honestly, thats about what I'd imagine a pentinent wearing, nothing fancy. not some weird torture gear, just humble cheap clothing. the type of thing they proably wore as young girls in the schola.
We don't have a good look at the back of any of these, but the impression I'm getting is that there is no zipper in the back, so they have to be two-piece outfits. The shorts are evident in the first picture (and also in how the the fabric follows the back of the thigh on bent legs).
I think you could sell a lot more people on the idea of a one-piece sack than the sporty beachwear the renders suggest.
But the assumption that because people dislike these models so they MUST like everything about the old model or we wanted nudey bondage ladies is a strawman and not at all reflective of most peoples actual issues with the models.
If there is such an assumption, it is indeed a bad one. But I don't think that was the point here. The point is the only models we had so far are the metal ones, and the metal ones were never as crazy as they were pictured on some of the GW official drawings.
The drawings are the main reason people think Repentias should be half naked crazed women with no shoe. The miniatures were never that far that way.
What's wrong with expecting new models to look like the official art thats been in use for nearly 20 years?
well when people have been saying "this'll proably get changed as it comes off as kinda sexist now adays" for the past 15....
Tinfoil hat time. What if GW's designers have simply lost their taste and respect for older depictions and just want to go with the times on purely aesthetic grounds. I'm not saying that's the reason these Repentia suck so bad, but consider that Marines had a long standing, codified aesthetic and equipment guidelines that were overthrown almost entirely by Primaris who lost much of the established and well loved character in the process.
What if the old designers are no longer in love with the setting as it was fifteen or twenty years ago and the new designers can't get behind those old, outdated ideas?
For all GW is riding the nostalgia wave with bringing back Rogue Trader and 2nd ed stuff like Genestealers for instance, I increasingly get the idea that there is no one left at GW who is inclined or in a position to preserve the integrity of the established setting and aesthetic.
Considering the insistent repetition we got on Warhammer Community that yes, plastic Sisters are a super faithful adaptation of the old models in a new medium, it seems to me that that thought didn't extend very far beyond the basic Battle Sister. Like that was all they could bring themselves to do, and when it was the Repentias' turn nobody felt the obligation to adhere to that principle anymore because the showcase model was out of the way and they have way better ideas these days where to take the army anyway.
I must admit that I had a little doubt seeing just the grey plastic. So I decided to tinker a bit Think she looks great with a little color. The face is pretty messed up, plenty of spikes and scrolls.
The shoes remain a bit sneaker-like though, not sure about it.
Seems to be a range of head types so more variation.
Weapon designs look crisp, if more ornamented than I'd expect repentia to have.
Dislikes:
Plugs (see below)
Clothes
The slippers don't look like remnants of their armour. While I think barefoot repentia really sells the shame and indignity of the repentia, I'd be fine with some remnant of their former equipment. What look like leather slippers don't add either quality to the visual impact of these miniatures.
It's probably just one head, but the 'bound mouth' head looks too much like the gunslinger GSC guy. There were a bunch of ways to get across 'speak no evil' - sewn shut, a bridle/ballgag, bolted metal plate. It could be better in person- I expect its actually a purity seal wrapped around her mouth
The sackcloth/bikeshorts are a weird addition. They kind of look like what a sister might train in outside her armour. The visual impact of a practically nude model in an army of heavily armoured women is diluted. Again, this isn't degrading so much as inconvenient. Its an odd choice to give them these loose, shapeless bags because rather than being nude, they simply aren't wearing anything. They could be wearing habits, breadboards that say the end is nigh, a dress made out of meat, something to suggest that they are now more unhinged flagellant than professional warrior woman. Instead they look undressed, in a way that suggests they were caught off guard rather than stripped of their station and vestments (see Leonatus woken in the middle of the night, attached.)
The plugs.
The plugs are a retcon that fiddles with decades of background material. The spacemarine black carapace includes these plugs so power armour can join directly with the carapace itself- which attaches to the marines nervous system. The point of non Astartes power armour was that it required no body modification to wear, whereas Astartes plate required invasive permanent surgery (see Leonatus). Thus you had inquisitor Veil, undercover as Penelope Pitstop or a night club singer or what have you on one mission, suiting up in power armour for the next mission.
I suppose it ran counter to 40k's theme of body horror to have a useful technology that didn't require you to nail a circuit board to your face or route wires through your nose but it allowed the user to remain 'intact' and unaugmented which has other uses in universe (infiltration, retirement!) and out of universe (Making sure the army of athletic human females in form fitting armour remained attractive outside that armour)
This change is not as drastic or far reaching as secret super stasis marines from the great crusade but it's no more welcome in my view.
zend wrote: lack of anything that really says “self inflicted punishment”
Are we even looking at the same renders?
Spikes inserted in to flesh. Massive, painfully deep brandings. A metal ring around a thigh with spikes pointing inside. Ritual scars upon the face and limbs. A map of scars upon a bare scalp.
The "self-inflicted punishment" is there, on each model. Yeah they could have more of it. But it's still there.
But that’s just kinkster’s first pain play compared to the old, good art.
I agree with what the other guy said - ditch the nonsense power armor interface plugs, give us more and better “pain-bling” as he put it. I’m okay with the clothes, even if they’re a bit too neat in terms of wear and tear, but they’ve barely anything that resembles the old art besides the head sculpts.. A couple piercings and scars is so basic, and the most horrific thing they’ve got is brands. The other wounds just like battle wounds.
Then again I like my Dark Angels to look like this or the old piece John Blanche did a looooooong time ago, over what we actually get, so maybe I’m just too into the grim dark gothic aesthetic.
Not even slightly. Not amongst any of the regular colour schemes.
Would be pretty easy to make them fit any of the Orders Majoris color schemes, actually. They're not that complex.
Bloody Rose would just need the clothes to be dull blood red, or give the appearance of white clothes long-stained red. Red along the sides of the eviscerator and silver detail if any.
Our Martyred Lady would need a faded black color, with some red detail if any, and a similar red on the eviscerator. Easy to do and make it match.
Valorous Heart is similar, black with white detail, and a dull bronze or copper look on the weapon.
Sacred Rose would have a stained white look with black or red details, red weapon, as would Ebon Chalice.
Argent Shroud would have a gray/silver look with red weapons.
Games Workshop was not creative at all when picking out color schemes for Sisters. These would all be trivial to make look good and fit in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
zend wrote: But that’s just kinkster’s first pain play compared to the old, good art.
It's closer to the "good, old art" than the current batch:
These don't have ANY of that self-mutilation theme going on, just battle-scars painted on.
When did I claim to like the old minis? There’s a reason I said compare them to the old art.
I go through this same gakky argument with video gamers too - just because I think the newest iteration is trash, doesn’t mean I think the previous one was good.
People used to liken SoB to female marines, but I think they've been moved more inm that direction. I think in trying to portray them heroically while making their technology better fit the setting and giving an explanation to how their abilities stand out over normal humans, we're getting a version of SoB with cybernetic augmentation and the sorts of gene-treatments that help make normal humans stronger and live longer but without going anywhere near as far as what Space Marines get. So we have have these Repentia with muscles and implanted power armor interfacing sockets.
I have mixed feelings. On one hand I think they feel less Blanchian... and so in a sense less 40k than the most extreme sort of 40k flavor... but they're still 40k feeling. I think this is a less stylized approach to Repentia which may or may not be GW's intention, but the look of the models seems a consequence of trying to keep down sexualized undertones while trying to make the look of the concept better fit how SoB and Imperial technology fit in.
I think the style choices make sense, but makes them feel less miraculous... and these maybe a bit less insane.
Warpspy wrote: And I think they look too much like men
[...]
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes
Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?
Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.
Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.
Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.
For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.
Pretty much agreed with all of this. I think they could have been a touch more space-gothic in sensibility, with some more chains and whatnot and maybe some more expressive faces, but it's really a matter of degree. The one with the bionic arm looks great; the others look fine. Glad they look closer in sensibility to stuff like the Cawdor line, where they're wearing pretty minimalist, functional stuff than just parchment pinned to them to show off their curves and not much else, and they're sure better than the old metal awkward kinda' power armor thing.
From what I understand, reading the background lore people have been posting, the Repentia are the equivalent to the scene in A Feast For Crows where Cersei is walked naked through the streets while a nun walks behind her yelling "Shame! Shame!" Their nakedness, if I'm not mistaken, is not because they have been turned into sex objects for the pleasure of onlookers, but because they have been stripped of their very identities - literal objectification. They aren't the equivalent of a Yakuza cutting off his pinky, but instead a religious zealotry that goes beyond physical suffering into a sort of damnation of soul.
Despite having said really love these minis, I do agree with everything you said in this paragraph. They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.
I can see why people think they are not grimdark enough, the lines are a little too clean. Paint will indeed make this better.
However, I seriously don't understand people seeing masculine in the models. Take Sister Serena for example. Look at the real Serena, and she's swinging a 1lb tennis racket, not a metal, powered chainsaw. Of course they will have had chemical enhancements, no PED-police in the 40K universe.
I do wish they looked a little more scarred, but the clean grey appearance is certainly attributed a lot to the images and not to how a final painted model will look.
I'll hold judgement until I see painted renditions.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.
Yeah, this is where I landed. I have loved everything in the SoB relaunch so far except these... but I don't hate them either. They're just not as good as they could be. I will see about greenstuffing some tabards or whatever to extend the top a little more and call it good.
Also, after some thought, I think I agree with the barefoot contingent. Sure, the sneakers are practical and make actually redeeming themselves much more likely, but in a setting where one of the best ways to deal with a tank is punching it with a magic glove, practicality is overrated. I think bare feet would indeed go a long way towards that sackcloth and ashes theme.
But, it is what it is. As a man once said about 3.6 roentgens, "not great, not terrible".
Whoa! The negativity here is insane, and it seems to be pretty much disconnected from what the miniatures actually look like. They do not look manly and there is plenty of grimdark self flagellation stuff, certainly more than any sister model ever released.
I am pretty damn pleased with these. They look like strong, athletic warrior women in active combat poses. There is a lot of cool gothic craziness. I really hope the there are plenty of extra heads, I want to use these on my normal sisters as well. Granted, I would have preferred bare feet and a bit more tattered tabards etc, but at least the latter is easy to add with GS. Overall a great upgrade though.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)
From what I understand, reading the background lore people have been posting, the Repentia are the equivalent to the scene in A Feast For Crows where Cersei is walked naked through the streets while a nun walks behind her yelling "Shame! Shame!" Their nakedness, if I'm not mistaken, is not because they have been turned into sex objects for the pleasure of onlookers, but because they have been stripped of their very identities - literal objectification. They aren't the equivalent of a Yakuza cutting off his pinky, but instead a religious zealotry that goes beyond physical suffering into a sort of damnation of soul.
Despite having said really love these minis, I do agree with everything you said in this paragraph. They’re not perfect by any means and their “costume” could have been so much better. However, I find a lot more to like about them than dislike. The brands, the cropped hair, the self inflicted wounds are a bid step towards what you describe. They’re 80% there and I’ll take that. I know that I’ll paint them and convert them more to my taste.
I'm amazed that you could quote that post, since it seems to have mysteriously disappeared.
streamdragon wrote: I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)
I don't like to make such comparisons before I can hold the respective models in my hands, so while that thought occurred to me I'm not going to assume that they are off until I have actual proof.
I do think it's not a problem of heroic scale, though. Provided of course that armored and unarmored Sisters look way to close in mass, but again there's no actual proof yet. Rather I could never think of it as anything other than a competence issue on part of the designer or their manager. It's literally the sculptor's job to get proportions and dimensions right.
streamdragon wrote: I'm a big fan of the models. My only issue with how buff they are (which is not itself the issue), is that it makes the Sisters in armor look even smaller by comparison. Like, if the Sisters are that big in their cloth and skin, their power armor would be paper thin. I realize it's an issue of Heroic scale, and maybe it's just seeing both renders in isolation, rather than next to each other. (I have the new Sister Superior model "in the plastic" as it were, but that's even less useful for comparison.)
GW has always chosen to go with dynamic scaling rather than realistic scaling. Is Roboute G scaled to a normal (or even primaris) space marine? Is terminator armor even possible to wear?
I'll just assume Repentia are jacked full of combat drugs once they're handed their eviscerator and they put on 20kg of muscle for the duration of their penitence.
zend wrote: When did I claim to like the old minis?
When did I claim you liked the old minis? Oh wait I didn't. Stop overreacting.
All that Is aid was that the new minis are actually a step closer to what you called the "good, old art".
“Overreacting” k.
But excuse me, I should’ve specified Karl Kopinski’s Art when I said good old art. I’m having trouble finding an exact date when his pieces were originally done, but they at least predate the official release of the Repentia models, which do match some depictions of them, just not the good Kopinski depictions everyone is referring to. His art is amazing anyways, but his Ministorum pieces nail grim dark perfectly.
The only thing that looks a little off for me are the shoes and the... trousers?
Everything else is very cool. Not something I fall in love with but ey, cool.
And I know we all want the art come true. As others have said, Warhammer is full of Artwork pieces that are much superior to the miniatures that had come after them. But at this point I think thats something everybody has accepted as a compromise between the freedom one has when drawing vs the reality of 28mm plastic figurines.
I don't know why so many people is, in this specific case, forgetting that realization that we all accepted as reasonable for most other models, and using that Repentia drawing as some kind of Ten Commandments on How Shall You Made a Repentia Miniature
Galas wrote: The only thing that looks a little off for me are the shoes and the... trousers?
Everything else is very cool. Not something I fall in love with but ey, cool.
And I know we all want the art come true. As others have said, Warhammer is full of Artwork pieces that are much superior to the miniatures that had come after them. But at this point I think thats something everybody has accepted as a compromise between the freedom one has when drawing vs the reality of 28mm plastic figurines.
I don't know why so many people is, in this specific case, forgetting that realization that we all accepted as reasonable for most other models, and using that Repentia drawing as some kind of Ten Commandments on How Shall You Made a Repentia Miniature
No one said they had to be 1:1 with Kopinski’s art, but they could stand to take a lot more design cues from it.
As a matter of fact, the art and minis being 1:1 now a days is a bit of a problem. I guarantee every single one of the models we’ve seen will show up directly in new art for the codex, right down to the pose. GW’s been doing it for awhile and I don’t like it.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
The more I think about this, I think there’s actually a subtle tonal shift in the lore too; my reading of the article is that Repentia are now more in a bushido “I have failed my master and must labour to remove my dishonour” than the original, driven into a religious fervour by their failure. I.e. less savage insanity and more driven humility, which I think carries through into the models.
Jadenim wrote: The more I think about this, I think there’s actually a subtle tonal shift in the lore too; my reading of the article is that Repentia are now more in a bushido “I have failed my master and must labour to remove my dishonour” than the original, driven into a religious fervour by their failure. I.e. less savage insanity and more driven humility, which I think carries through into the models.
I think even in the recent article both are possible.
They also have to be careful that the penetance does not become the goal rather than the journey - that way Slaanesh beckons. I seem to recall a short story with a Canoness talking about this and it being another thing that they must be watchful for.
Warpspy wrote: And I think they look too much like men
[...]
Fortunately we have brands like Raging Heroes
Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?
Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.
Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.
Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.
For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.
Damn, this thread went dumpster fire QUICK. SoB tradition holding strong.
Anyway, I wanted to see what the the models would look like under a GW like coat of paint
And it ain't bad. Not great, but not bad. the shoes are still kinda out of place and the ports feel wrong, but I think they're fine models.
I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."
I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
Sqorgar wrote: I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
Agreed, though the face doesn't look nearly as weird on these when the brand isn't as prominent as it appears on the renders.
I think even just the boots would do it - and then up on the official facebook and hope it's not too late :p It's covering up those awful shoulders and adding some dynamism that is lacking from the shorts/stiff scrolls that really adds to the look.
It’s funny, it seems to me that every reaction to the plug ports on the arms and legs has been pretty much “It’s either black carapace or nothing! No mid-points or halfway houses ever!”
Seriously though, the Black Carapace does more than interface the marine with his armour. It’s very nearly a second nervous system and endocrine system all on its own, able to report diagnostics on individual organs and systemic hormone levels as well as allowing the armour to feed data back to the marine such that he becomes instantly aware of changes in his surroundings in a way that someone wearing regular armour couldn’t possibly do, almost like they weren’t wearing armour at all. There’s a reason that a marine chapter can lose several of the other implants to mutation and carry on but losing the carapace causes them to disband, much like losing the progenoids would.
These plug things appear to be one-way, sensing nerve impulses as they arrive at the muscles, and not much more if I’m reading the article right. This is a much lesser technology but definitely a good thing and also exactly what fanatics dedicated to a cause but unwilling to become transhuman to facilitate it would use. They also don’t mean that other possibilities have suddenly ceased to exist; inquisitors and other folk with a need to sometimes not be distinctive in a crowd could have bodysuits with all kinds of sensors and whatnot to run the armour, but which can be removed at any time. They would still be a bit of a compromise though, since the armour couldn’t be as responsive.
Basically, wearing power armour with a force-feedback suit makes it feel like wearing heavy armour. The SoB plug-in way makes it feel more like a heavy overcoat, while the marine way makes it feel like a silk shirt. Of course wearing power armour without any interface always feels like being inside your own coffin. Because you are.
Sqorgar wrote: I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
...echoing agreement. i would certainly like them more with this look, especially with the tattered additions.
TiamatRoar wrote: I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
Kinda wanted to add to this line- to me it's not a direct anything to BDSM, but im sure a lot of people react to it that way when they see whips now. my murmuring in thread about Flagellants has me thinking that for all we know they were going for an over the top religious reference perhaps to even mock it that over time has been far more connected to bdsm then the actual religious connotation. maybe that's just me because i like the religious stuff in 40k a lot.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."
I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
Old dark eldar stuff, old ork cheerleaders, etc...all the lazy, one dimensional sex joke models are pretty much gone, and have been for 15 years. The Repentia were just a weird little decade old relic of gws olden days.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
[spoiler]
Sim-Life wrote: Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."
I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
It's interesting that you forgot to mention the bit where I specifically referenced the artwork, but whatever...
Even if the original models and/or artwork do have BDSM references - which they probably do - does that make them sexy necessarily*? The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
This is more like it. That is an excellent compromise between Battle Sister and Flagellating BDSM caricature. Only further mod I might suggest is making the boots more like combat boots, i.e. calf high or so.
I dig it. I will definitely be busting out the putty to try and go this direction myself if the final figures are still the same as the previews.
The figures as is are decent, but can definitely be improved.
Having said that, I would still prefer something closer to the Kopinski art.
Lord Damocles wrote: The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
This is a dangerous question to invite on Al Gore's internet.
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
All things being equal, no, but that's not quite the scenario we have here. While GW have done a genuinely admirable job of balancing older norms with developing perspectives, we can't pretend WH40k is without some old legacy weirdnesses. It's not an accident that the defining male archetype of this universe is essentially asexual while their female counterpart are writhing around in bondage straps and gimp masks.
That doesn't mean we have to throw the whole IP or its history away or anything, but it's something to bear in mind when making decisions about where to go from here. I'm all for kinky weirdness, but there are at least two other faction types who can traffic in that. It doesn't have to be the defining feature of basically the only female - ahem - dominated one.
I therefore propose we a) level off the kinky weirdness off the Sisters about where it is, b) crank it up to a million in the Dark Eldar, c) stop wasting the potential of everything Slaanesh related, and hire some really energetic depravity enthusiasts to go to town in that direction.
Yea, someone a while back posted that Battle Sisters were one of the most grim dark factions in 40k and Sisters of Repentia should reflect that and I'm just thinking "What? Slaanesh? Dark Elder? Hello?"
Mr_Rose wrote: It’s funny, it seems to me that every reaction to the plug ports on the arms and legs has been pretty much “It’s either black carapace or nothing! No mid-points or halfway houses ever!”
Then you missed some reactions.
The plug ports add something, and in general this looks like a much better take on the concept.
Yeah, I really liked the plug ports. I think it's a good addition to both the mini and the lore. They look like they're ex-power armor wearers. Which is good, because they are exactly that.
I don't really like the new models (though I never was too thrilled with old ones either...)
I think the poses are fine enough, and I like their physique, but I think their attire is holding them back. Even though some of them have bodies that are in movement, I feel like their clothing makes them look more static than they actually are (I guess I would have liked to see more flowing cloth & chains that accentuate their dynamic posing). Also, I think their tunic/shorts make them look a bit more emotionally "contained" in a way, rather than free-flowing fanatics striving for redemption.
I do like the head with the executioner hood with the dangling parts at the bottom, and hope their are enough hoods like that for an entire squad. The bare heads look angry enough, but at the same time they seem a bit too tame for the unit's ideological purpose?I know one has a literal fleur-de-lis supposedly branded on her forehead, but for some reason it just doesn't strike me as fanatical.
But then again, maybe being extremely fanatical isn't what they're trying to convey with the new models? Maybe I'm looking for something that isn't supposed to be there, so that's probably why I'm a bit disappointed.
-----
My personal preference for heads would be what's found in this image. Hood, chains, and more mentally off-putting faces.
TiamatRoar wrote: Yea, someone a while back posted that Battle Sisters were one of the most grim dark factions in 40k and Sisters of Repentia should reflect that and I'm just thinking "What? Slaanesh? Dark Elder? Hello?"
Dark Eldar and Slaanesh are so OBVIOUS about it all though. The Imperium is much more insidious about it because they try to justify their atrocities. A slaaneshi cultist will stab you just cause he can, an Inquisitor will stab you and tell you you deserved it and it was necessary for the safety of the Imperium.
stahly wrote: Wow, lots of sexism and toxic masculinity here.
Disliking the new models = "sexism and toxic masculinity"? Real low bar for entry there stahly.
Complaints about them not looking feminine enough were certainly a clear case of toxic masculinity.
Not really. A lot of people like the Hellraiser-y body horror torture of them and part of horror is and always has been sexuality. If people like the body horror juxtaposed against femininity then thats a valid opinion.
Lord Damocles wrote: The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
This is a dangerous question to invite on Al Gore's internet.
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
All things being equal, no, but that's not quite the scenario we have here. While GW have done a genuinely admirable job of balancing older norms with developing perspectives, we can't pretend WH40k is without some old legacy weirdnesses. It's not an accident that the defining male archetype of this universe is essentially asexual while their female counterpart are writhing around in bondage straps and gimp masks.
That doesn't mean we have to throw the whole IP or its history away or anything, but it's something to bear in mind when making decisions about where to go from here. I'm all for kinky weirdness, but there are at least two other faction types who can traffic in that. It doesn't have to be the defining feature of basically the only female - ahem - dominated one.
I therefore propose we a) level off the kinky weirdness off the Sisters about where it is, b) crank it up to a million in the Dark Eldar, c) stop wasting the potential of everything Slaanesh related, and hire some really energetic depravity enthusiasts to go to town in that direction.
Looking at the latest Slaanesh release, that last part is rather unlikely. The Dark Prince's followers and daemons have become more and more modest.
I feel like people are perhaps being a bit too down on the BDSM overtones of the original models because they think that A) pandering sexuality is bad and B) it's a bit silly because its over the top, but I think they are missing the point of it. Repression breeds obsession. These nuns are obviously supposed to be in the spirit of the devout man flagellating himself with a whip while obsessively chanting hail marys. He may not be a masochist, but the belief is masochistic in nature (we are born into sin and it is only through self harm and denial that we can find salvation, and all that). It is because these nuns can not have normal lives, with normal relationships, that they fill this void in their existence with this religious obsession, and because they can not have sex, that repression bubbles up to the surface in weird ways - primarily through sadism and masochism. They are two sides of the same coin. In their beliefs, they are submissive, which causes them to lash out and become dominant against those they see beneath them - the bullied always becomes the bully. There is nobody with a less healthy sexuality than those who claim to be spiritually and morally perfect, as they must hide their imperfections. Their sexual appetites are never whetted, never gone, and they grow behind the scenes, consuming them.
I think the premise of their sexuality manifesting itself through their zealotry to be, not only realistic, but also interesting. They are so far gone that they don't even realize what boundaries they've crossed. They are too close to it realize how far away from normalcy they've drifted. Christianity, for example, worships a naked man nailed to the cross wearing a crown of thorns - blood dripping from the wounds as his emaciated form hangs there dying - in many cases, that version of Jesus is ATTRACTIVE and even sexualized! That doesn't seem weird to us because we've simply become numb to that particular imagery - but when you think about it, it's WAY fethed up. You've got children hanging out in the presence of realistic depictions of torture and sacrifice, putting on Easter plays! And if you put that in a miniature game as symbology for some faction, people would claim it too far fetched and fetishized - it is fetishized. It is literally a fetish, in the religious definition of the word. That's the point.
And that's just the symbol of Christ (whom we metaphorically cannibalize by ingesting his body and blood). When you get to some of the really fethed up things the church has done (just start at the Spanish Inquisition and work your way backwards), you start to realize that our own concept of religion is pretty grimdark in and of itself. If you want to make a grimdark satirical commentary on a religious order of nuns, you've got to go pretty freaking extreme just to reach the base line of depravity and sadism that already exists in real life.
I think the people who complain about a group of BSDM nuns being unrealistic depictions of women are missing the fact that it is absolutely a realistic depiction of religious zealotry. I should point out that I went to a Catholic school that was run by a nun who, almost in a stereotypical way, invoked sadistic punishments against the kids, and I never once saw her smile - not even on picture day.
For a decade, I have STRONGLY advocated that GW take the most conservative approach possible for releasing plastic Sisters.
One of my worst fears was that Repentia would be retconned out of existence or rendered totally unrecognizable.
Upon seeing the new renders, I’m ... actually pleased.
These look really good to me. The word “generic” has cropped up ITT but to me they look very evocative. We were never gonna get the future gothic bondage of certain C:WH art. Nor would that even fit with contemporary 40k. What we did get, however, is something very true to the core concept.
IMO these Repentia are actually better than the originals (which I also love).
OK, I'm officially putting a moratorium on the term 'Soccer Mom' in this thread. This is such an absurd comparison to the models in question that it's impossible to see it as anything other than an attempt to be deliberately controversial.
You're free to dislike the models if you don't like the styling, but let's not get carried away, hmm?
I am starting to warm up to the redesign a little bit. With the right paintjob they seem like they'd turn out okay. I had just always pictured them as being more emaciated and savage, but these look like they were pumping iron alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger at venice beach. I had pictured a more wiry athletic strength for the sisters than bodybuilding style. But whatever, the deed is done.
I plan on speaking my opinion of these in the clearest way possible-by buying them.
Having played sisters back in 2nd edition (preordered the book and every initial release-first gaming items I ever preordered!), I felt like the addition of the Repentia took the army in 3rd(?) in the wrong direction in terms of sexualizing the army.
Regarding the original models/art: It is fairly telling that the penitent self flagilating women were depicted in a hyper sexualized manner, but similar male equivalents were in full body robes (empire flagellants) or still wearing power armor (death company).
Eh sexualization in a case like this is in the eye of the beholder.
What matters is, these renders get the point across that these women are religious fanatics on an ever more fanatical plane than their armored counterparts.
I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
I think that most recent revision in this thread, where the tops have tattered sleeves and it's more robelike, are absolutely perfect and what I will try to convert mine to. I don't think that will be particularly hard, and the worst joins can be concealed with purity seals\beads\maybe chain with bling hanging off.
His Master's Voice wrote: I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
I'm not completely sold on the new Repentia models.
The plugs are a really big stickler for me (and I suspect a great many others too.) It does go against established Canon that the SoB don't have a black carapace and the originals didn't have them either. The poses are pretty good but they look more like "angry berserker women" than "forgiveness through death" vibe.
Don't get me wrong, the originals in my eyes, struggled with this as well but their design was similar to the human pilots of the pentinent engines so it helped them convey it somewhat.
The odds of a GW redesign are slim (though worth a shot at putting it up on their facebook), but it does give hope for greenstuffing/3d printing them.
Having never had much success with greenstuff myself is there a better material? Or perhaps liquid greenstuff over a stiff paper or a similar template material to create robes that don't turn into finger-marked messes.
It's just the clothes on the renders they've shown that I don't like. This, with the more flowing and tattered robes (that also mirror the robes on the fully armoured sisters, which is not only logical, it also maintains the army's visual cohesion), fixes that. Give them some taller boots rather than the slip-on looking shoes they have now and I think we would be in a good place. Not perfect perhaps, but good overall.
Schmapdi wrote: Such a minor change makes such a big improvement on them! I'm guessing it's too late for GW to alter them though :(
I would hope that the current preview is an unfinished model - the positioning/visibility of the connecting pegs on the arms is terrible and the wrists don't fit correctly on some of them for starters.
Dr. Mills wrote: The plugs are a really big stickler for me (and I suspect a great many others too.)
At least they look like they will be easy to neatly cut off without leaving marks or the need for resculpting. Removing the clothes will be stupidly hard by comparison.
I might start a sister’s army when the plastics drop. Or not. I’m indecisive and have already tried to start Primaris Imperial Fists just this summer. And after attempting to paint a Canoness Veridian I got on release day a few years ago, I realised I probably can’t paint them very well. But I like these a lot more than the old ones.
Well I guess the average woman look too much like a man, and only the most spine-bended top models look like women enough or something?
Unfortunately, for decades heroic' scaling meant female models with tiny waists, giant boobs, and no visible muscles.
Heroic scaling is always going to be something of a caricature, but the trick for manufacturers is finding a new direction that isn't insulting or embarrassing.
Raging Heroes clearly choose to stick to the 'traditional' path, while GW are clearly trying to find a better visual... And honestly, I think they've nailed it, and I suspect that those few peope claiming these don't look 'female enough' are just having trouble getting out of that traditional heroic scale mindset.
For all that I don't like the fashion choice, these models are, for me, a perfect 'heroic' female warrior style.
I thought we were talking about miniatures here, no? Maybe i'm wrong, but all news and threads and pictures seems to be about plastic, resin or metal figurines...
Perhaps some people should take a deep breath before writing certain things, I feel almost like some of us commited some sort of crime for liking or disliking some goddam miniatures, judging by the over-the-top reactions i have read... It is sort of the Thought Police from 1984.
Clearly, having an opinion different is "having troubles to see the real truth" or somewhat 'wrongthinking', or god forgive us... toxic behaviour... Wow... And no problems whatsoever for the people saying those insanities... I wil try to not repeat the mistake of expressing a different opinion on this 'warming and welcoming' forum for all (accepted) opinions.
This is the most contentious model release I’ve seen since... probably the first Primaris leak when everybody here was fighting over whether they were real.
This is one unit in an all new range of plastics that people otherwise seem to think looks fine so far. I’d say “Get over it” but I don’t like to be argumentative.
Taarnak wrote: That was art made for the Inquisitor 54mm game, right? It was never intended as art representing Repentia as a whole, just that one who was serving an Inquisitor (hence the armor, guns, and lack of an Eviscerator).
No, it's cropped from a full-page piece of concept sketches from the original Codex: Sisters of Battle.
BuFFo wrote: I want to see if GW is going to make new units for the sisters.
I'm pretty confident they will be. I'm also really confident that they'll be the last things we hear about, to avoid third party designers getting units out before the book launches.
Sim-Life wrote: Also I can't see how anyone can defend the shoes. They're throwing themselves to their death but their main concern is sensible footwear? Bare feet would actually go a long way towards fixing the models. Giving them shoes humanizes and civilizes them to which are both things they're supposed to have given up when they became repentia.
Well, the fact there is footwear is something that remains constant from the previous iteration of models, so...
Sim-Life wrote: Also I can't see how anyone can defend the shoes. They're throwing themselves to their death but their main concern is sensible footwear? Bare feet would actually go a long way towards fixing the models. Giving them shoes humanizes and civilizes them to which are both things they're supposed to have given up when they became repentia.
Well, the fact there is footwear is something that remains constant from the previous iteration of models, so...
Boots fit the general theme, which for the sisters generally is 'armoured space nuns with BDSM elements' and the theme of the models- which was 'the BDSM dialled up and the armour dialled down'. Bare feet also communicate this and grace/vulnerability. These models...
That 'shop with the habit looks great and confirms my main concern with these miniatures was that they weren't wearing anything, but also weren't nude. If they're not going to be nude, they should wear something that ties them to the sisters or to the theme of disgrace. The formless bags didn't communicate anything about the models or the world they live in, other than GW's reluctance to portray female nudity in current year+4. They were blank space, a formless void. The habits rock and should be implemented immediately, with bare feet or boots as a secondary concern.
BuFFo wrote: I want to see if GW is going to make new units for the sisters.
I'm pretty confident they will be. I'm also really confident that they'll be the last things we hear about, to avoid third party designers getting units out before the book launches.
Yeah, we were never going to see anything altogether new in the prolonged advertising period Sisters received. GW is to afraid of third parties for that.
If new units are made, we'll get to see them close to actual release like with any other army.
That said, we are entering the usual advertising time frame for a new release, so it's not like we'll have all that long to wait anymore.
The plugs are a really big stickler for me (and I suspect a great many others too.) It does go against established Canon that the SoB don't have a black carapace and the originals didn't have them either.
No it doesn’t.
No, seriously, plugs don’t equal black carapace. Especially since the plugs are in the arms and legs rather than the torso. Or do Titan Princeps have the black carapace now?
From the article itself:
The power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas … doesn’t require the full interface of an Adeptus Astartes black carapace.
Warpspy wrote: I thought we were talking about miniatures here, no? Maybe i'm wrong, but all news and threads and pictures seems to be about plastic, resin or metal figurines...
Yes, yes.
Warpspy wrote: It is sort of the Thought Police from 1984.
Clearly, having an opinion different is "having troubles to see the real truth" or somewhat 'wrongthinking'
So you are comparing people disagreeing with your opinion on how those plastic figurines are modeled to being taken from your home, sent in a facility where you are tortured until your mind is broken, and then released as a mindless drone cheering for the regime. That seems a bit much, even for the internet where hyperbole is common. Maybe you should apply your own advice and take a deep breath before answering?
People disagreeing with you on the internet isn't censorship, it's the opposite: it's free speech. In case that needs to be said.
The plugs are a really big stickler for me (and I suspect a great many others too.) It does go against established Canon that the SoB don't have a black carapace and the originals didn't have them either.
No it doesn’t.
No, seriously, plugs don’t equal black carapace. Especially since the plugs are in the arms and legs rather than the torso. Or do Titan Princeps have the black carapace now?
From the article itself:
The power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas … doesn’t require the full interface of an Adeptus Astartes black carapace.
How is this so hard to grasp?
Its not hard to grasp. Up until the release of these miniatures, the only power armour plugs were for the black carapace. Lots of humans in 40k have mind interface tech, lots of humans in 40k have plugs for different things. But sisters specifically (and other humans generally) did not have them or need them for power armour. In decades of art, miniatures and stories, they did not exist in Fiction, RPG or Tabletop.
The previous (first) iterations of these models didn't have them, evidence that sister-plugs didn't exist when the repentia were realised, and nothing has changed since then - with the exception of our recent WC post. These plugs are being borrowed whole cloth from the Astartes, without the black carapace that necessitates them.
=Angel= wrote: Up until the release of these miniatures, the only power armour plugs were for the black carapace.
That's not actually true, so... no, you're pretty much just flat out wrong. Knight and Titan drivers have plugs like this, as does the Mechanicus, as do civilians in the Dark Heresy roleplaying games, as do people in the novels. These plugs fit in to 40k's lore quite snugly.
Melissia wrote: That's not actually true, so... no, you're pretty much just flat out wrong. Knight and Titan drivers have plugs like this, as does the Mechanicus, as do civilians in the Dark Heresy roleplaying games, as do people in the novels. These plugs fit in to 40k's lore quite snugly.
You mention dark heresy but in rulebooks for both editions the only mention of interface plus is this: "versions of the Adeptus Astartes are a separate class of power armour, using special implants to link the armour to the user in a manner no human could wear or operate".
At the moment people are dancing around 'not black carapace' point, but there is no denying that the new repentia model retcons literally every visual representation of sisters out of their armour (including those from dark heresy) for the past two decades with this new 'marine-like/lite interface', for better or worse.
Biggest issue I see with the paint mock up is the contrast between skin and clothing, it's too stark and this makes the shoes stand out. Dirty the flesh a little more and make the shoes brown and they will be less distinguishable.
Melissia wrote: That's not actually true, so... no, you're pretty much just flat out wrong. Knight and Titan drivers have plugs like this, as does the Mechanicus, as do civilians in the Dark Heresy roleplaying games, as do people in the novels. These plugs fit in to 40k's lore quite snugly.
You mention dark heresy but in rulebooks for both editions the only mention of interface plus is this: "versions of the Adeptus Astartes are a separate class of power armour, using special implants to link the armour to the user in a manner no human could wear or operate".
And? That doesn't contradict the wide-ranging existence of cybernetic plugs and mind-impulse units. In many parts of the Imperium they are practically ubiquitous.
There's no "dancing around" this, the whines of that "buh mah black carapace, therefor no one can have cybernetics!" simply have no basis in the lore. No one in this thread is arguing they have to be as good or effective or efficient or useful as black carapace. Marines still get the best gear. But just because marines have to get the best gear doesn't mean no one else can get anything.
As for this being a retcon? Yeah. I explicitly called it "new lore" in a background thread discussing it. I think it's good new lore. A good change. The plugs make the Repentia look like they're ex-powera armor users, which is exactly what they should look like. That Sisters so rarely get new lore is no reason, in and of itself, they shouldn't get new lore.
Sisters are regular people. They aren’t super heroes. The notion that they have special implants to allow them to wear their armor cuts against this core aspect of their faction identity. Therefore, to me, it’s a really bad retcon.
The notion that, in the 40k setting, even certain civilians require implants to interact with technology is beside the point. Even more so, the idea that Titan pilots have them. For the same reason you wouldn’t design IG sculpts with these implants, neither should Sororitas have them.
=Angel= wrote: Up until the release of these miniatures, the only power armour plugs were for the black carapace.
That's not actually true, so... no, you're pretty much just flat out wrong. Knight and Titan drivers have plugs like this, as does the Mechanicus, as do civilians in the Dark Heresy roleplaying games, as do people in the novels. These plugs fit in to 40k's lore quite snugly.
Are Knights and Titans power armour? Did I stutter?
=Angel= wrote: Lots of humans in 40k have mind interface tech, lots of humans in 40k have plugs for different things. But sisters specifically (and other humans generally) did not have them or need them for power armour. In decades of art, miniatures and stories, they did not exist in Fiction, RPG or Tabletop.
They fit into 40k lore and their purpose is clear from the lore, but they ignore all the art, lore and models that showed us that sisters didn't have plugs because the only power armour plugs were for black carapace.
Mental interfacing with tech is mental interfacing with tech. If anything, power armor would be far easier to interface with than a Titan.
It's one thing to object aesthetically, or to say you don't think Sisters SHOULD need them like Manchu did. It's another thing to say that these plugs don't fit the lore. They just flat out do fit the lore, and have for more than a decade now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Sisters are regular people. They aren’t super heroes. The notion that they have special implants to allow them to wear their armor cuts against this core aspect of their faction identity.
I gotta disagree? I don't see them as "special" implants. Plugs like that are fairly common in the Imperium.
Also, you know they've had cybernetics on a few of their minis since the 90s, and in their artwork since the start, right? The interface-plugs are new, but Sisters being cybernetically augmented isn't. It's really not that far of a stretch. This IS the first time it's been "standardized", I'll grant. But see above regarding them not being "special" in my eyes.
Manchu wrote: Sisters are regular people. They aren’t super heroes. The notion that they have special implants to allow them to wear their armor cuts against this core aspect of their faction identity. Therefore, to me, it’s a really bad retcon.
The notion that, in the 40k setting, even certain civilians require implants to interact with technology is beside the point. Even more so, the idea that Titan pilots have them. For the same reason you wouldn’t design IG sculpts with these implants, neither should Sororitas have them.
That's a really baffling take.
The reason they need them at all is -because- they aren't superheroes. Its a move away from 'Sisters can use the super special armor without issue because magic.'
It actually reinforces that they aren't engineered superhumans, but humans with human needs and limitations- which reinforces the 'faction identity'
If guard used power armor, they'd need them too. They'd be odd on guard models because they're the massed soldiery who don't get nice things because it isn't worth it. Sisters are the right hand of the Ecclesiarchy, so they DO get nice things. But they still need to be able to use them.
And since GW finally has the tech and sculptors to do repentia models that don't look like gak, its a good time to make the lore connections and stop handwaving.
Melissia wrote: And? That doesn't contradict the wide-ranging existence of cybernetic plugs and mind-impulse units.
But that isn't what was said.
What was said was that "Up until the release of these miniatures, the only power armour plugs were for the black carapace" - which is accurate.
There are many other kinds of plugs, but the body-covering array of power-armour plugs have long been a distinct feature of the space marines, and one of the visual physical characteristics that separated them from bulky muscular humans.
Melissia wrote: The plugs make the Repentia look like they're ex-powera armor users, which is exactly what they should look like. That Sisters so rarely get new lore is no reason, in and of itself, they shouldn't get new lore.
If they didn't have plugs they'd still look like ex-power armour users, for all models of sisters power armour prior to yesterday - this is a case of using the retcon to explain the retcon.
Though at the end of the day fluff is just fluff. The more relevant question is whether the ports make the model look better, worse, or more/less able to fit visually with the rest of the army. (the latter point is what makes the edited robed repentia work for instance - the robes tie the models to the power armoured sisters visually on the table).
I like the idea that the fervent sisters are covered with Armour Stigmata in sympathy with the Emperor's armour, but lose the right to bear such marks in their disgrace, and must cover them with sin-pasties chastisement disks.
Guard also get stuff like cyber eyes. PA plugs are a completely different category of tech and are obviously associated with SM. The only PA that requires this kind of interface, up til now, has been Astartes PA. As a literary conceit, this emphasizes the strange, transhuman nature of SM. The argument that Sororitas need PA interface plugs for the very reason that they are normal people is completely bogus, considering Astartes also NEED those plugs and are anything but normal humans.
Never before have Sisters needed to undergo surgery to simply don their PA. Making that a thing now obviously contradicts the core concept that these women are just physically normal humans who have decided to go up against the worst the galaxy and the Warp can throw at humanity.
A.T. wrote: There are many other kinds of plugs, but the body-covering array of power-armour plugs have long been a distinct feature of the space marines
Then I misunderstood your objection.
Your objection is still irrelevant to me. The Black Carapace isn't merely a "body-covering array of plugs". It is a thin film of plastic and nerve implanted directly beneath the skin of the torso in thin sheets. Once it hardens, it sends invasive neural bundles into the body, and interface ports are carved in to it. It's actually basically an additional sensory organ, one that is natural to the Space Marine body and interfaces far better than any cybernetics the Imperium is capable of producing, and does more than merely send signals from the brain to the armor telling the latter to move, but also provides direct feedback between the Space Marine and their power armor, letting both know and react in various ways to everything going on with the other. This is why Space Marines treat their armor as a "second skin".
I do not like this Retcon with the plugs, and it directly takes away from this model for me.
maybe its because my other Imperial faction of interest is mechanicus, where such connectors look more than right and would be holy, now on models like this makes it jarring. maybe it's that i expected more build in scars and not mechanical things in general on a repentia model. maybe it's the Retcon overall that to me takes away from the religious strength i got out of the sisters in the first place.
however I get to this, it makes them less worth it, especially if i tried to fix them. im already having to greenstuff robes, because that image of the repentia with edited tattered robes is as close as i like the model thusfar combined with the most scarred head. then id have to file off the plugs, to add scars, seals or other markings.a rather in depth fix to me per model after waiting a near decade for a new one, and 14 since it's actual release.
Manchu wrote: Guard also get stuff like cyber eyes. PA plugs are a completely different category of tech and are obviously associated with SM. The only PA that requires this kind of interface, up til now, has been Astartes PA. As a literary conceit, this emphasizes the strange, transhuman nature of SM. The argument that Sororitas need PA interface plugs for the very reason that they are normal people is completely bogus, considering Astartes also NEED those plugs and are anything but normal humans.
Never before have Sisters needed to undergo surgery to simply don their PA. Making that a thing now obviously contradicts the core concept that these women are just physically normal humans who have decided to go up against the worst the galaxy and the Warp can throw at humanity.
Being able to smoothly use power armour without some sort of an interface makes little sense . And considering how prevalent cyber tech is in the setting not having this would be weird. Yes, it is a change (or at least new information.) Get over it. And in case you don't, there is a dedicated thread for this topic on the background section, so it might be a good idea to continue the discussion there.
did anyone think that those plugs may be on a body stocking and not surgically implanted into them?
Who care about plugs, there is an incredible new invention.....its called a hobby knife and it can do a multitude of amazing feats of sharpness.
I'm about 50/50 with the repentia, I like that there is not a tactical rock amongst them & the posing is excellent. Unfortunately on the other hand, some of the heads look weird(prob just crap render) and just look like there is something missing.
Still firmly starting Sororitas when then release(whenever that is)
A.T. wrote: Those plugs give the repentia a visual appearance that up until now was distinct and unique to the astartes.
Astartes without power armor never had plugs like these.
They explicitly have interface plugs for their armour, I even quoted as such earlier. It's a long standing part of the lore and you are well aware of that.
Page 19 of the deathwatch FFG book if you don't fancy looking up an image yourself.
Manchu wrote: Sisters are regular people. They aren’t super heroes. The notion that they have special implants to allow them to wear their armor cuts against this core aspect of their faction identity. Therefore, to me, it’s a really bad retcon.
The notion that, in the 40k setting, even certain civilians require implants to interact with technology is beside the point. Even more so, the idea that Titan pilots have them. For the same reason you wouldn’t design IG sculpts with these implants, neither should Sororitas have them.
They still don't "require" implants though, that much is confirmed with the article about these miniatures. Non-Astartes Power Armour does not need implants in order to be wearable, but that doesn't mean some sort of interface isn't helpful or that plugs aren't an option.They're a faction that uses power armour almost exclusively, why is it a problem if they're better prepared to use the armour that they know they're all going to be wearing rather than each of them wearing a bodysuit interface or something along those lines?
Galas wrote: I just don't like the visual the plugs give to sisters.
At least in my mind those speak too much "Nude SM".
Yeah, it feels like it robs both Sisters and Marines of some of their unique identity. SM had their Black Carapace, SoB had pure bad ass attitude, everyone had power armour and all was well.
It's not like Sisters suddenly became female Space Marines, but why nudge them in that direction, even if a little bit?
Well, I guess I respond here as a mod continues to insist on derailing this thread with fluff complaints.
How the hell would you use PA without some sort of neural connection? It would need medical electrodes at minimum. How else would the armour know how to move? And if you're going to use the armour most of the time for decades, you might as well have those electrodes permanently crafted on yous the technology to do so is commonplace.
And yes, It is a fluff retcon, we know. And it is a good one.
- maybe the plugs aren’t necessary, they are just an upgrade
This is a good point — but are there Repentia models without plugs?
Plugs aren't neccesary, but that doesn't mean interfacing with the armour isn't advantageus,so considering that -why wouldn't an army that knows they're all going to be using power armour and pretty much just power armour go for a plug-based interface rather than all of them having to wear special suits instead?
Crimson wrote: Well, I guess I respond here as a mod continues to insist on derailing this thread with fluff complaints.
How the hell would you use PA without some sort of neural connection? It would need medical electrodes at minimum. How else would the armour know how to move? And if you're going to use the armour most of the time for decades, you might as well have those electrodes permanently crafted on yous the technology to do so is commonplace.
And yes, It is a fluff retcon, we know. And it is a good one.
The image that the lore about Sisters and Inquisitors wearing power armour has always been a funny one to me. Without any sort of interface then they’d probably be exerting a lot of effort trying to get it to move. Slow and draggy movements.
Crimson wrote: Well, I guess I respond here as a mod continues to insist on derailing this thread with fluff complaints.
How the hell would you use PA without some sort of neural connection? It would need medical electrodes at minimum. How else would the armour know how to move? And if you're going to use the armour most of the time for decades, you might as well have those electrodes permanently crafted on yous the technology to do so is commonplace.
And yes, It is a fluff retcon, we know. And it is a good one.
The image that the lore about Sisters and Inquisitors wearing power armour has always been a funny one to me. Without any sort of interface then they’d probably be exerting a lot of effort trying to get it to move. Slow and draggy movements.
Or some degree of lag, at the very least, as the artificial muscle fibres (or whatever the tech is) have to respond to your body actually moving, as opposed to the electrical signal sent to your muscles to make you move.
It might only be a matter of milliseconds, but that can be vital in combat.
Discussion of the fluff retcon implied by the new sculpts is absolutely and obviously on topic ITT.
There is no reason at all to assume PA requires a neural interface to work or even work well. This has NEVER previously been the case in the 40k setting, after all.
A special interface was invented for the SM to emphasize their transhuman, super elite brand image. This would be completely contrary to the Adepta Sororitas brand, in the same way it would be contrary to IG branding.
It makes some sense to say that, for example, elite veteran Sororitas sometimes earn the privilege of undergoing surgeries to implant these performance enhancing plugs. But making them standard issue, and connecting them to using PA as an implied requirement, is a bad choice that cuts against what actually makes Sisters special.
Crimson wrote: Well, I guess I respond here as a mod continues to insist on derailing this thread with fluff complaints.
How the hell would you use PA without some sort of neural connection? It would need medical electrodes at minimum. How else would the armour know how to move? And if you're going to use the armour most of the time for decades, you might as well have those electrodes permanently crafted on yous the technology to do so is commonplace.
And yes, It is a fluff retcon, we know. And it is a good one.
The image that the lore about Sisters and Inquisitors wearing power armour has always been a funny one to me. Without any sort of interface then they’d probably be exerting a lot of effort trying to get it to move. Slow and draggy movements.
Or some degree of lag, at the very least, as the artificial muscle fibres (or whatever the tech is) have to respond to your body actually moving, as opposed to the electrical signal sent to your muscles to make you move.
It might only be a matter of milliseconds, but that can be vital in combat.
Thats why Sisters drill for hours every day to use it. Or at least they used to.
Anyway, why are people treating power armor like its a one-piece mech suit?
And that, Sim-Life, takes us back to what makes Sisters actually cool: they are not genetically and technologically enhanced super soldiers. They are physically ordinary humans with extraordinary religious zeal.
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Sim-Life wrote:Anyway, why are people treating power armor like its a one-piece mech suit?
Great question. And I suspect the answer is, basically, people assume the fluff specific to SM must in some way be universal to the whole setting. This is exactly why Sororitas should not have these plugs, if they are indeed PA interfaces.
They don’t have the Black Carapace or transhuman physiology. There’s your distinction. If you don’t like it that’s fine but you don’t get to say they should not have the plugs... GW have decided they do. Go figure.
There is no reason at all to assume PA requires a neural interface to work or even work well. This has NEVER previously been the case in the 40k setting, after all.
It being able to function at practical combat speed without some sort of a neural interface is implausible. Real life powered exoskeleton prototypes which do not rely on electrodes use advanced computers and sensors at each joint, and are still impractically slow. Advanced miniaturised computers are not a common technology in 40K, neural connections are.
A special interface was invented for the SM to emphasize their transhuman, super elite brand image. This would be completely contrary to the Adepta Sororitas brand, in the same way it would be contrary to IG branding.
It makes some sense to say that, for example, elite veteran Sororitas sometimes earn the privilege of undergoing surgeries to implant these performance enhancing plugs. But making them standard issue, and connecting them to using PA as an implied requirement, is a bad choice that cuts against what actually makes Sisters special.
In 40K little cybernetic plugs do not make anyone even a least bit superhuman. Bloody hive world scum to whom rat on a stick is an expensive gourmet meal can have bionics. Not using such a common technology in an obvious way would be silly.
Crimson wrote: Well, I guess I respond here as a mod continues to insist on derailing this thread with fluff complaints.
How the hell would you use PA without some sort of neural connection? It would need medical electrodes at minimum. How else would the armour know how to move? And if you're going to use the armour most of the time for decades, you might as well have those electrodes permanently crafted on yous the technology to do so is commonplace.
And yes, It is a fluff retcon, we know. And it is a good one.
Usually this is done like DARPA currently does with their prototypes, or like stuff like Shirow's landmates or Battletech's elemental battle armor work: the "muscles" of the armor replicate and amplify the movements of the wearer, allowing you to carry more weight, to run faster, to punch harder. The amount of lag on the replicated movement would depend entirely on the tech level of the suit, but it's also something you train for.
I do like the plugs, and I actually kinda prefer it to work that way in 40k, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Not by a longshot.
Manchu wrote: And that, Sim-Life, takes us back to what makes Sisters actually cool: they are not genetically and technologically enhanced super soldiers. They are physically ordinary humans with extraordinary religious zeal.
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Sim-Life wrote:Anyway, why are people treating power armor like its a one-piece mech suit?
Great question. And I suspect the answer is, basically, people assume the fluff specific to SM must in some way be universal to the whole setting. This is exactly why Sororitas should not have these plugs, if they are indeed PA interfaces.
There's no way in hell that SoB armor wouldn't just be ramshackle (but pretty) modifications to Space Marine power armor marks. This is 40k, duct tape mods are literally a religion.
ERJAK wrote: There's no way in hell that SoB armor wouldn't just be ramshackle (but pretty) modifications to Space Marine power armor marks. This is 40k, duct tape mods are literally a religion.
Civilian powered armor has been a thing in the 40k setting since the very beginning.
While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:
The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.
Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?
Sim-Life wrote: While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:
The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.
Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?
But mutation is clearly not considered the same as bionics as far as the Imperial Creed is concerned. Ecclesiarchy officials are consistently depicted with bionics, both in art and miniatures, the latest example being the Black Fortress priest.
Sim-Life wrote: While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:
The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.
Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?
Mutations are seen as a sign of chaos and corruption. Bionics aren’t.
Crimson wrote: It being able to function at practical combat speed without some sort of a neural interface is implausible. Real life powered exoskeleton prototypes which do not rely on electrodes use advanced computers and sensors at each joint, and are still impractically slow.
Does gaining the memory of someone by eating them sounds plausible in real life? Or making giant robots as tall as warlord titans? Or warp travel, with associated time travel and other shenenigan? Or …
Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.
There is simply no merit to the argument that PA is implausible without neural interface. First, since when is 40k technology plausible. Second, it has been established for decades that PA in 40k does not requires neural interface.
It may not even be a proper neural interface. The ports connect the fibre bundles of the suit to electrodes sited deep in the muscles... a crude and invasive but “very Imperium” way to actuate the suit.
There’s no merit to the idea that this isn’t plausible and/or fits the setting. There’s just a differing opinion on whether you like that it’s now the new norm.
Sim-Life wrote: While I don't care about the plugs because Imma scrape them off but just to add fuel to the fire:
The Imperium basically considers the human form holy yes? Hence all the "burn the mutant" wherin "mutant" could be someone with a particularly large wart or an unfortunate birthmark.
Why would the MOST holy and devout of the Emperor's followers mar their bodies, which are considered holy, with cybernetics?
I refer you to the other empire in the Imperium who assuredly does NOT consider the human form holy nor inviolate. Granted, the Mechanicus are completely at odds with the Ecclesiarchy in most things, but it's certainly not a universal view that "natural" is "perfect".
Even if we go with the idea that the human form is considered "ideal/holy" by the Ecclesiarchy, much like with the Astartes the loss (or more correctly, sacrifice) of that "ideal" form so that they may better serve the Emperor in guarding His domain is pretty on-brand. Service in the Emperor's name demands sacrifice, so against that backdrop I don't see why they wouldn't undergo such modifications if it would enable them to bring greater destruction to His enemies.
There's no way in hell that SoB armor wouldn't just be ramshackle (but pretty) modifications to Space Marine power armor marks. This is 40k, duct tape mods are literally a religion.
From the older fluff, SIsters armour was a completely separate thing.
But yes, however it worked previously, now it clearly uses some sort of interface ports. I suspect that the reason for this change is that someone in the studio looked at the WIP Repentia sculpts and realised that there was nothing other than the chainswords that made them look like scifi models...
My only real issue with it is that the ports as modeled look impractically large, like they would interfere with the movement of the muscles and skin.
Manchu wrote: Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.
The novel Blind, part of the Shira Calpurnia series, has an interesting bit of fluff at the end that is an excerpt from an Inquisitor's monograph titled A Declaration of the Polarity of Human Disposition, distributed by both the Ministorum and Munitorum. It states:
"However, the purely physical body may be made the subject of human works, built on and shaped by the human mind. We know that the augmentic and the flesh-graft fall within that mandate: we can see such works upon the bodies of the Adeptus back through hundreds of generations and can therefore infer rightness by tradition."
JohnnyHell wrote: It may not even be a proper neural interface. The ports connect the fibre bundles of the suit to electrodes sited deep in the muscles... a crude and invasive but “very Imperium” way to actuate the suit.
There’s no merit to the idea that this isn’t plausible and/or fits the setting. There’s just a differing opinion on whether you like that it’s now the new norm.
Inquisitor Amberley Vail wears a skin tight bodyglove that is
... festooned with sockets and truncated power cables. It just had to be the dermal interface layer for her power armour.
It seems the new lore is that SOB bypass this with cyberplugs - I am not against this - in my head I might have it that not all Orders have the same methods, so soe might use similar to Inquisitor Vail whilst others may have plug and play.
This whole weirdo “come along on the journey” style drip drop release is premised on fan feedback.
Plus we don’t know exactly what these plugs mean yet. Per the description above, seems like interface implants are not actually required for Sororitas to use their PA.
Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.
Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.
Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.
Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.
insaniak wrote: I suspect that the reason for this change is that someone in the studio looked at the WIP Repentia sculpts and realised that there was nothing other than the chainswords that made them look like scifi models
I think you’re almost right. i bet the issue is, they wanted to make it clear that these are Sororitas who would otherwise be wearing PA. The older models made this clear by emphasizing their nakedness, a negative (in the sense of something being missing) feature. The revised concept requires some positive (in the sense of something be present) detail implying the lack of armor.
Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.
Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.
Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.
Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.
Level 1: Simple civilian type. Used for heavy loads and hazardous environments. Slow and clunky, because it does only move based on tye wearer’s physical movement. Not suitable for combat.
Level 2: Basic combat type. For occational users, for example Inquisitors. Uses an advanced body glove interface to reduce latency and increase precision of movement.
Level 3: Advanced combat type. For continuous use by highly trained specialists. Uses neural implants on the limbs for high performance. Ref. the new Repentia models.
Level 4: Adeptus Astartes type. The highest grade, made for extreme use and highly adapted to the unique Astartes physique. In addition to the neural ports on the limbs (ref. Magnus the Red), it also requires the Black Carapace, which is a highly specialized artificial organ which also serve multiple other purposes, and is exclusively used by the Adeptus Astartes.
Thats a great summary - consider it exalted (and nicked)
I think the most controversial aspect of the new sculpts is that apparently neither the sculptors nor the studio team know the difference between the raised scar tissue of a brand and a depressed skull fracture.
Personally I’ve never been a fan of digital sculpts in general, they always look chunky and boxy to me but thats the new normal.
Level 2 combat type, easy to maintain neural interphases via physical plugs & wiring, robust, suitable for extended combat operations eg new repentia
level 3 combat type, expensive, harder to maintain, less suitable for extended combat operations, but more comfortable, more adaptable to variant equipment design, form fitting body glove, used by the inquisition, the rich/powerful etc
Prestor Jon wrote: I think the most controversial aspect of the new sculpts is that apparently neither the sculptors nor the studio team know the difference between the raised scar tissue of a brand and a depressed skull fracture.
Personally I’ve never been a fan of digital sculpts in general, they always look chunky and boxy to me but thats the new normal.
Preach. Even the best CAD sculpts I've seen (and there have been some nice ones released recently) would look so much better with about a 10% reduction in scale.
I am also quite surprised that there's quite so much discussion and vitriol over a minor detail like body plugs, when the models are so out of character in pretty much every other way; the hideous brand, the complete lack of gothic iconography, the weird trainers + shorts combo. I like the muscled look, but that's literally the only good bit.
Manchu wrote: Bionics are not seen as an improvement on one’s natural body, morally speaking, from what I have read over the years, outside of cultures heavily beholden to the Cult Mechanicus. By contrast, the sacred nature of the natural human form is well established as a central tenant of the Imperial faith. Sim-Life raises a very valid point.
There is simply no merit to the argument that PA is implausible without neural interface. First, since when is 40k technology plausible. Second, it has been established for decades that PA in 40k does not requires neural interface.
There's no merit to any of this because it's stupid. They use plugs, the guys who make the universe say they use plugs.
If you don't like the plugs, go write waifu fanfics about it.
The image that the lore about Sisters and Inquisitors wearing power armour has always been a funny one to me. Without any sort of interface then they’d probably be exerting a lot of effort trying to get it to move. Slow and draggy movements.
Or some degree of lag, at the very least, as the artificial muscle fibres (or whatever the tech is) have to respond to your body actually moving, as opposed to the electrical signal sent to your muscles to make you move.
It might only be a matter of milliseconds, but that can be vital in combat.
That was explicitly the point of Astartes plugs, which attached directly into their nervous system through the black carapace.
This eliminated the lag that other users suffered, through not using plugs. It's why sororitas train at the schola using power armour long before they are let loose on the field of battle-when a marine is finally connected with his armour, it completes him and becomes a second skin with additional senses, that reacts to his needs.
.
A human wears the suit instead and accepts its limitations as a tradeoff for not being surgically transformed into a monstrous living weapon.
A halfway house where the sisters get some plugsockets wired into their muscles would be fine if it didn't trample everything that came before for no real gain.
Conceptually, the indoctrinated cyborg supersoldier living weapon and the stock human paladin in the best armour available are very different, even if we see armoured human with boltgun on the tabletop in both cases.
Aesthetically, while they arent as awful as the last models to have visible plugs (Wulfen dance troupe) the plugs detract from one of the main draws of the Sisters as a faction- the physical appeal. If they are all studded with ports and plug sockets it detracts mightily from the core aesthetic - yeah the armour is flattering but she's a mess underneath. The contrast of the sisters being physically beautiful women (angelic perfection) but mentally fanatical violent zealots(evil persecutor) is lost if they are both physically and mentally undesirable.
So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly. I say supposedly because at my last 2 game store i've gone to i haven't really seen Sisters players at all and my knowledge comes mostly from online. So are they gonna get a boost to make them not suck? Maybe FnP, Invunerable saves, -1 to be hit or something. I mean the sculpt can be beautiful but if the model sucks in-game then a lot of people won't buy it. At that point you'd have to buy maybe one set and put it on your back shelf to collect dust like my Dark Eldar Hellions.
The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models and re-sculpts are nice and all but what about monsters, vehicles, a monstrous vehicle hybrid, more infantry of various types (most likely where they should go imo), flyers, etc. I think Sisters should focus more on the infantry personally but they should get new ones. Anyway even if they don't my hope is for some very cool looking jump jet infantry. Perhaps some scout vehicles or infantry. I dunno there's a lot of places they could and probably should go.
I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
flamingkillamajig wrote: So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly.
They've had a rocky road. Currently they are reliant on support characters and other buffs to still be worse than arco-flagellants against most things (someone on facebook noted if a full sized repentia squad charged an un-upgraded 10 man tactical squad ... the tacs were actually the slight statistical favourites to win).
The problem is at least somewhat model-related as a similar unit (the 3e zealots) fielded a lot of cheap lightly armed bodies around a handful of really big hitting eviscerators - but no model no rules for the all-eviserator repentia, and between more guns in the game and shrinking eviscerators that might not work for them any more anyway.
flamingkillamajig wrote: The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models...
The last new unit for the sisters was the repentia in 2004*. Technically they had them before but as an entirely different kind of single model unit upgrade. There was the avenging angel unit but that was dawn of war only.
(*unless you count celestines gemini)
GW are keeping anything new close to their chests though, not even including legacy wargear options like jump packs or squad eviscerators in the beta dex.
It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.
Sim-Life wrote: It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
I like them well enough. My only real complaint is that, based on the apparent depth of the cut-out in the forehead, one would need to paint the inside a bone colour as there shouldn’t be any skin in the way.
And yeah, the shoes look bad.
As for the plugs? I like them. Potential for better execution, of course, but they make sense to me. I have no sense of old fluff being particularly important. I like cool models.
I like the reworked model I saw earlier, with the longer robe and sleeves. I think it looks better than the stock model.
warboss wrote: I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
I think folks in the thread who don't like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets are going to be a universally popular retcon.
See how this is more accurate when you turn it around?
I read this thread.
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Sim-Life wrote: It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.
warboss wrote: I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
I think folks in the thread who don't like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets are going to be a universally popular retcon.
See how this is more accurate when you turn it around?
Not at all. It's obvious that they won't be universally popular given the response in thread but I don't think it's worth trying to convince you.
warboss wrote: I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
I think folks in the thread who don't like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets are going to be a universally popular retcon.
See how this is more accurate when you turn it around?
Not at all. It's obvious that they won't be universally popular given the response in thread but I don't think it's worth trying to convince you.
yeah except the response in this thread proves nothing because the interact reacts like this to ANY new thing GW puts out. I have yet to see a new addition to 40k since I started playing that was universally accepted by everyone and didn't cause at the very LEAST some old grognards to scream "THIS MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE OF X! AND MAH IMMERSION!"
warboss wrote: I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
I think folks in the thread who don't like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets are going to be a universally popular retcon.
See how this is more accurate when you turn it around?
Not at all. It's obvious that they won't be universally popular given the response in thread but I don't think it's worth trying to convince you.
Of course you're not going to try and convince me. You've already decided that people saying that they like the change are 'unable to stand that people disagree', and that they should accept that jerks are going to continue to be jerks.
As I've said, I've read this thread, and the ones trying to shut down disagreement aren't the supporters of the change.
To me, it’s obvious that the interface implants were added because selling sculpts of >basically< nude women was not an option.
The designer dressed them in tank tops, gym shorts, and trainers. And sculpted them in tennis poses. The result would be utterly baffling to anyone who did not already know what they were (supposed to be) looking at. Certainly, this concept totally fails to get across the idea of zealous fanatics bereft of the habit of their militant religious order — i.e., power armor.
So how do you get across the notion that “this is a space nun without her armor” (as opposed to some other kind of troop, who even knows what, nun scouts maybe)? Well, they went with what I’m sure someone who doesn’t know much or care much about Adepta Sororitas but, on the other hand, is very familiar with Adeptus Astartes, thought was very clever: gIvE tHeM pLuGs LiKe SpAcE mArInEs HaVe LoL. And at the last minute, somebody else red penciled this non-sequitur into the bulletin:
The power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas (and other agents of the Imperium, such as Inquisitors) doesn’t require the full interface of an Adeptus Astartes black carapace.
Ya know, just so nobody gets the idea that Space Marines are any less special.
For all the Johnny Come Latelys, I know you don’t give a feth about this. Naturally. This is trivial, insignificant, of no importance. The change is just an update, an upgrade, a retcon to improve, ahem, PLAUSIBILITY. (Plausibility is a major concern of the Warhammer 40,0000 setting.) It’s not the sort of thing that anyone would care about. Except for actual fans of the Sisters. For ten years, I have read countless posts of people who say they like Sisters except everything about them needs to be changed. So I’m hardly shocked by what I’ve read here today.
But as to the shoes, I like them. I am fine with these Repentia. It’s a pity about the armor interface retcon. It makes me nervous about whether the designers really understand the point of this faction. But I think it’s more likely that this was just a compromise to still have Repentia in an era when naked female bodies are more offensive than star genocide.
I think it's worth pointing out that the Sisters of Battle really are hyper-elite troops. They might be the bottom rung of the hyper elite, but when you've got power armor as your standard issue battle kit, you're past being elite.
Power armor interface plugs are some dead simple cybernetics by 40k standards. This barely counts as augmentation compared to what an organization that can afford power armor for all their soldiers could do. I could very easily see the Ecclesiarcy doing some minor genetic or hormone therapy to give sisters a uniform body frame that's optimal for combat performance and standardized logistics. Space Marine augmentation is incredibly extreme but there's a nearly infinite range of what could be done to make Sisters the perfect human soldiers. None of them would have superhuman abilities, but if you can get 98% of your soldiers operating in the top 1% of human performance, it's worth doing for the people you're stuffing into power armor.
John Prins wrote: I think it's worth pointing out that the Sisters of Battle really are hyper-elite troops. They might be the bottom rung of the hyper elite, but when you've got power armor as your standard issue battle kit, you're past being elite.
Power armor interface plugs are some dead simple cybernetics by 40k standards. This barely counts as augmentation compared to what an organization that can afford power armor for all their soldiers could do. I could very easily see the Ecclesiarcy doing some minor genetic or hormone therapy to give sisters a uniform body frame that's optimal for combat performance and standardized logistics. Space Marine augmentation is incredibly extreme but there's a nearly infinite range of what could be done to make Sisters the perfect human soldiers. None of them would have superhuman abilities, but if you can get 98% of your soldiers operating in the top 1% of human performance, it's worth doing for the people you're stuffing into power armor.
But, as Manchu keeps saying, a large part of the appeal of Sisters to people who like Sisters for what they are(as opposed to whatever they imagine they could be if only they were in charge and could change everything about them) is that they're not "superhuman". They're not "enhanced" by anything. They're just singular badasses who's rigorous training, unbending will, and fanatical faith enables them to stand toe-to-toe with horrors that would normally make anyone short of a Marine require their brown trousers, without a Commissar or Inquisitor to threaten them into it first in sight.
What made them special was the idea that they were so inherently exceptional only the type of equipment normally reserved for actual-posthuman war-monsters was worthy of them, and this seemingly tiny little insignificant change flips that on its head and insinuates that they have to be modified & enhanced to be made worthy to bear that equipment.
People can make all the arguments they like about how it's more logical, or that crude cybernetics are entirely in-keeping in the Imperium, or whatever else, but all of that misses the point that Sisters used to be Just That Awesome that they could use power armour out-of-the-box just by being that damned disciplined and highly trained, and now they aren't.
Sim-Life wrote: It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.
flamingkillamajig wrote:So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly. I say supposedly because at my last 2 game store i've gone to i haven't really seen Sisters players at all and my knowledge comes mostly from online. So are they gonna get a boost to make them not suck? Maybe FnP, Invunerable saves, -1 to be hit or something. I mean the sculpt can be beautiful but if the model sucks in-game then a lot of people won't buy it. At that point you'd have to buy maybe one set and put it on your back shelf to collect dust like my Dark Eldar Hellions.
The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models and re-sculpts are nice and all but what about monsters, vehicles, a monstrous vehicle hybrid, more infantry of various types (most likely where they should go imo), flyers, etc. I think Sisters should focus more on the infantry personally but they should get new ones. Anyway even if they don't my hope is for some very cool looking jump jet infantry. Perhaps some scout vehicles or infantry. I dunno there's a lot of places they could and probably should go.
Repentia could serve as a cheaper, cannon fodder/glass cannon unit within the sisters that would be mechanically separate from the more durable and pricey power armoured units. Redone penitent engines and perhaps a range of penitent equipment - arco flagellants and so on.
I think a battletank of sorts beyond the rhino chassis, something like a gothic battlewagon with sinners crucified into it would be awesome. Conceptually like the pulpitek- a weapons platform/pulpit that would roll through a sinful city, sisters kicking down doors, dragging sinners from their homes and nailing them to it, before burning down their homes and fanes.
warboss wrote:I think folks in the thread who like the sockets and can't stand the idea that someone on the internet disagrees with them need to get over it and accept that the sockets just won't be a universally popular retcon and that they're in for years worth of jokes and snarky comments about them. Alternately, folks like myself who don't like the sockets need to accept that they're here to stay for the forseeable future (at least for a decade until the nuns with guns get their next real codex) and that our only option to avoid them involves a hobby knife, small file, and putty.
The models are stated to be WIP on WC. A previous WIP Cawdor model with a hood and nooses caused enough outrage that the model was altered. Best case scenario they redesign these from the ground up, but deleting the plugs and adding robes would be enough at this point.
Kitties for the Necromunda Escher gang had sculpts displayed at some event, but after fairly consistently negative comments were scrapped and redesigned altogether.
I don't think the plugs are unpopular enough to be removed, and they've written new lore to standardize their existence now. Could see the clothes being altered, although any sleeves could cause issues for the modularity. Not counting on it, but it's certainly not an impossibility.
The redesigned Necromunda cats also have yet to be revealed or released. We don't know how far along the production process these sculpts really are, and whether there would be enough time to change them while fitting into whatever the planned release schedule is.
But as to the shoes, I like them. I am fine with these Repentia. It’s a pity about the armor interface retcon. It makes me nervous about whether the designers really understand the point of this faction. But I think it’s more likely that this was just a compromise to still have Repentia in an era when naked female bodies are more offensive than star genocide.
It is really funny, though, that it is only in some drawings (not all of them, the most famous was already posted on this topic) that the Repentias can be seen almost naked. Like I said, the miniatures were never that far. They wore scraps of their armors with pieces of clothes, certainly still showing skin but still.
In the minds of lots of (male) players, repentias were just half-naked/naked crazed women torturing their bodies themselves. I also had that picture in my head as well, when I think about it.
New repentias certainly go against that mind picture indeed, and feel way more futuristic. The plugs help a lot in that feeling, so I tend to follow Insaniak here - it is not really about showing naked women, but give a more futuristic feeling like they did with Primaris Space Marines.
But yeah, I admit I also thought plugs were part of the black carapace. Guess GW will indeed tell me I was wrong.
Still, as a long time sister player and lover, I can tell the main reason I like them is not because they're not superhuman, but because of their fanatism and being the armed arm of the Faith in the Emperor's God. In the lore, sisters are clearly above mere humans - they come from Schola Progenium, which already isn't something the common of the Imperium has access to and they live their entire life practically away from society, training in both body and mind. They were always a lot similar to Space Marines, except they believe the Emperor is a God. Since they have the best of the best equipment the Ministorum can give them, it's believable they actually also have augmentics to improve their physical abilities. It's still not to the level of Space Marines, because Space Marines bodies are practically being remade whole instead of just having a few upgrades here and there, but they're clearly not part of the "mere humans" in the eyes of a lot of Imperium citizens. In fact, they are often seen in the same kind of holiness some may see the Space Marines.
flamingkillamajig wrote:So here's what bugs me about Repentia. In the old games nobody used them supposedly. I say supposedly because at my last 2 game store i've gone to i haven't really seen Sisters players at all and my knowledge comes mostly from online. So are they gonna get a boost to make them not suck? Maybe FnP, Invunerable saves, -1 to be hit or something. I mean the sculpt can be beautiful but if the model sucks in-game then a lot of people won't buy it. At that point you'd have to buy maybe one set and put it on your back shelf to collect dust like my Dark Eldar Hellions.
The 2nd thing i'd like to tackle is where are all the new units? It's been how many years since Sisters got any new models and re-sculpts are nice and all but what about monsters, vehicles, a monstrous vehicle hybrid, more infantry of various types (most likely where they should go imo), flyers, etc. I think Sisters should focus more on the infantry personally but they should get new ones. Anyway even if they don't my hope is for some very cool looking jump jet infantry. Perhaps some scout vehicles or infantry. I dunno there's a lot of places they could and probably should go.
Repentia could serve as a cheaper, cannon fodder/glass cannon unit within the sisters that would be mechanically separate from the more durable and pricey power armoured units. Redone penitent engines and perhaps a range of penitent equipment - arco flagellants and so on.
I think a battletank of sorts beyond the rhino chassis, something like a gothic battlewagon with sinners crucified into it would be awesome. Conceptually like the pulpitek- a weapons platform/pulpit that would roll through a sinful city, sisters kicking down doors, dragging sinners from their homes and nailing them to it, before burning down their homes and fanes.
That comic brings back memories.
I sure hope that Codex Sisters of Battle will include Redemptionists/Zealots as a type of ultra-cheap, Chaos Cultist-like cannonfodder troops choice.
SCOURGE AND PURGE!!!
=Angel= wrote: The models are stated to be WIP on WC. A previous WIP Cawdor model with a hood and nooses caused enough outrage that the model was altered. Best case scenario they redesign these from the ground up, but deleting the plugs and adding robes would be enough at this point.
It's almost August and SoB are meant to be released this year. Time is a pretty significant factor here. On top of that, GW's widest communication channel - Facebook - seem to like the modes as they are.
I suspect they are keeping the previews for the 'New' stuff back so as they can drop them shortly before release of the miniatures. Particularity if they are big and flashy, they are going to want the hype to be fresh when people can actually start dropping cash on them.
Manchu wrote: For all the Johnny Come Latelys, I know you don’t give a feth about this. Naturally. This is trivial, insignificant, of no importance...
Yodhrin wrote: ... to people who like Sisters for what they are(as opposed to whatever they imagine they could be if only they were in charge and could change everything about them)...
Keep up the good work boys, those gates ain't gonna keep themselves.
But as to the shoes, I like them. I am fine with these Repentia. It’s a pity about the armor interface retcon. It makes me nervous about whether the designers really understand the point of this faction. But I think it’s more likely that this was just a compromise to still have Repentia in an era when naked female bodies are more offensive than star genocide.
It is really funny, though, that it is only in some drawings (not all of them, the most famous was already posted on this topic) that the Repentias can be seen almost naked. Like I said, the miniatures were never that far. They wore scraps of their armors with pieces of clothes, certainly still showing skin but still.
In the minds of lots of (male) players, repentias were just half-naked/naked crazed women torturing their bodies themselves. I also had that picture in my head as well, when I think about it.
Firstly I'm going to ignore the obvious attempt at making the "you just don't like them cause you're a SEXIST" argument. Trying to defend your argument by using an ism is disingenuous at best and trolling at worst.
Secondly the old models have no baring on what the new models should look like as GW has totally overhauled the look of existing factions before.
Thirdly, while I'll attempt to divorce your argument from your obvious attempts at social politics baiting, maybe thats true of people unfamiliar with the faction or who haven't really given it more than a passing thought. I don't fully understand the nuances of Dark Eldar or Ta'u because I don't have a big interest in the faction and while I can't speak for everyone I liked the screamy naked tortured Repentia because they're the ultimate symbol of what the eccliesarchy stands for and wants from their soldiers.
The Ecclisiarchy is not a nice organisation. It's a power in the Imperium that doesn't REALLY care about the Emperor and uses him as an excuse to exercise their power and gain more. They brainwash and abuse their soldiers into unthinking, mindless slaves to the Imperial Dogma. So what could be better than a soldier that WILLING discards her agency, humanity dignity and life in the name of the Emperor (Eccliesiarchy)? The repentia are sisters who represent the true, corrupt face of the Ecclisiarchy (moreso tham Penitant Engines and Acro Flagellants because they'e unwilling victim) and the screaming, tortured, naked psychopaths driven only by their faith (their loyalty to the Eccliesiarchy) depicted in Kopinski's art convey that perfectly. That's why I have an issue with these models, they don't feel like they symbolize anything beyond "angry women with big chainsaws".
Instead of giving them remnants of armor (updated armor save or not- they had some on the old...) and some tattered robes like that one image edit kind of went for, they instead do this retcon, which removes to folks like me an element of the sisters being "Just that good" out of sheer faith and effort, and puts them however closer to space marines and other imperial organizations who do not have the same level of fanatical zeal.
it's not just that to me these Repentia seem do away with the lore i knew of Repentia before (these clothes on this model sure don't represent where she came from nor seem to do with the process i was familiar with), but it also mucks with my minds eye of this organization ive considered my favorite for 8 years now, on a model line that has been waiting for a touch up between 14 and 20 years.
Heckuva spot to drop this tidbit about humans in general in the Imperium. Kinda signed up to sisters for pure undiluted religious-brand zeal. if i wanted plugs, i could have signed up to the mechanicus and gotten all the things they promised me.
incidentally, this "practicality" thing. yes it may make more sense, but considering we are talking about an organization of some of the most fanatically religious in a universe where gods actually listen and also orks... Sense is not something i expected to be on the menu, again, alongside a model who otherwise is running unarmored at a bunch of people with this giant blade.
Pendix wrote: those gates ain't gonna keep themselves
A buzzword isn’t an argument.
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Sarouan wrote: it is not really about showing naked women, but give a more futuristic feeling like they did with Primaris Space Marines
It may indeed be a mixture of both. Can’t say I’m a fan of this whole Primaris thing, either. At this point, I’m not sure I would even mind female Space Marines. Not because that makes sense in 40k. Just that it’s hard, for me at least, to keep caring about 40k as it becomes less gothic horror and more, uh, well anyway that’s getting off topic. Obviously, YMMV. Suffice it to say, the notion of Sisters requiring body altering surgeries to even properly use their power armor is a drastic move toward Space Marine territory and, here’s the ironic punchline, therefore necessarily away from Sisters of Battle territory.
Sim-Life wrote: It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.
I didn't literally mean Sisters in terminator armour. That was just an example.
Fine. How about "if GW previews a covert Sisters unit with sniper rifles that use melta rounds." Does Raging Heroes do them?
No, but if GW ever previews a unit of Sisters WetTShirtia with twin-linked lasbadonkadonks, Raging heroes has them beat. to. the. punch.
Just out of curiosity I went to see what RH does have to offer for Repentia. And I guess forehead branding, piercings, blindfolds and poses of flinging themselves wildly into battle are obviously un-fluffy non-grimdark tennis players. But a bunch of hooded anime protagonists with fully power armored limbs and a Lara Croft t-shirt striking "lady on a comic book cover trying to convey she is a strong woman but also bewbs" poses is super true to repentia fluff.
Like seriously what? https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/soem-sf/products/davidians-cgtr-sf Who thinks this is a better representation of Repentia? Ignore the sexualization entirely, just block it out, what about ANY of these figures outfits, posing, or expression shows them to be "fanatical warriors obsessed with redemption through combat?"
Sim-Life wrote: It makes sense that we won't see amy new units if they exist because they won't want 3rd party manufacturers releasing models for them before they do.
If GW show off sisters in terminator armor or something you can be 100% sure companies like Raging Heroes would start the process of making alt sculpts for them asap and likely get them out around the same time.
I didn't literally mean Sisters in terminator armour. That was just an example.
Fine. How about "if GW previews a covert Sisters unit with sniper rifles that use melta rounds." Does Raging Heroes do them?
No, but if GW ever previews a unit of Sisters WetTShirtia with twin-linked lasbadonkadonks, Raging heroes has them beat. to. the. punch.
Just out of curiosity I went to see what RH does have to offer for Repentia. And I guess forehead branding, piercings, blindfolds and poses of flinging themselves wildly into battle are obviously un-fluffy non-grimdark tennis players. But a bunch of hooded anime protagonists with fully power armored limbs and a Lara Croft t-shirt striking "lady on a comic book cover trying to convey she is a strong woman but also bewbs" poses is super true to repentia fluff.
Like seriously what? https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/soem-sf/products/davidians-cgtr-sf Who thinks this is a better representation of Repentia? Ignore the sexualization entirely, just block it out, what about ANY of these figures outfits, posing, or expression shows them to be "fanatical warriors obsessed with redemption through combat?"
No one. No one buys Raging Heroes models for fluff accurate representations. Everyone knows they are a pin-up model company. No one who has objected to the new sculpts on fluff reasons has said "I'll get the Raging Heroes ones instead, they are more accurate to the fluff."
Like seriously what? https://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/soem-sf/products/davidians-cgtr-sf Who thinks this is a better representation of Repentia? Ignore the sexualization entirely, just block it out, what about ANY of these figures outfits, posing, or expression shows them to be "fanatical warriors obsessed with redemption through combat?"
They have power armoured tech boots but are stripped from the boots up. One arm is armoured, in the fashion of gladiators. That looks like a deliberate choice, rather than being called to battle while you were changing.
I happen to think the poses are quite static, whereas GW's newpentia poses are great. But the RH models are calling out enemies and swinging religious censers like flails and holding flaming torches. They have added to the original concept with those elements and incorporated the scrolls as breast coverings in a standardised fashion. The habit/headdress covers the women in a uniform way that ties them to what the armoured sisters wear (but which would set them apart in an army of GW miniatures)
I should add that I'm not holding RH up as the ideal, even leaving sexualisation aside.I don't know that anyone is claiming that. The poses aren't all great and there's room for nails hammered into flesh and other mortification. But between the new GW renders and Raging Heroes, the superior representation of the Repentia concept is clear, even if they have to hold 'legally distinct' Not!Chainswords
No one. No one buys Raging Heroes models for fluff accurate representations. Everyone knows they are a pin-up model company. No one who has objected to the new sculpts on fluff reasons has said "I'll get the Raging Heroes ones instead, they are more accurate to the fluff."
=Angel= wrote: But between the new GW renders and Raging Heroes, the superior representation of the Repentia concept is clear
And it's the GW renders.
While the GW models could go a bit further in the direction of, essentially, self-flagellating fallen paladins whom seek redemption through serving the Emperor, the Raging Heroes mini you linked doesn't even try to do that. It's just some lady with armored limbs and a boob strap. Nothing about it says "Sister Repentia" to me.
Pendix wrote: those gates ain't gonna keep themselves
A buzzword isn’t an argument.
Nor is it an effective argument when you effectively (and nearly literally) say "anyone who disagrees with me is a latecomer who doesn't really like Sisters as much as I do."
You're a mod, Manchu, you should be better than this.
Pendix wrote: those gates ain't gonna keep themselves
A buzzword isn’t an argument.
Nor is it an effective argument when you effectively (and nearly literally) say "anyone who disagrees with me is a latecomer who doesn't really like Sisters as much as I do."
How is he wrong though? There's nothing wrong with coming to an army late but those of us who have been playing Sisters for several editions for nearly 20-odd years have a better understanding of what a repentia represents than someone just getting into the faction because plastics are finally arriving. Theres a LOT of fiction and fluff in 40k and you won't pick up the small details from just a casual reading of a codex. Like you won't find the specifics of the repentia ritual unless you've read one of the Black Library novels.
Sim-Life wrote: How is he wrong though? There's nothing wrong with coming to an army late but those of us who have been playing Sisters for several editions for nearly 20-odd years have a better understanding of what a repentia represents than someone just getting into the faction because plastics are finally arriving.
Because "those of us who have been playing Sisters for several editions for nearly 20-odd years" don't agree on the topic to begin with. I am part of that group, been a fan of Sisters since 2nd edition and been playing them since the end of 3rd, and I couldn't disagree more with Manchu's arguments. I like the new Repentia a lot, and I love the addition of the cybernetic plugs in certain muscle groups for controlling power armor. It's a good aesthetic and I feel matches the aesthetics of 40k's artwork through the ages, which often had random smatterings of cybernetics tossed around.
Surprise surprise, "veterans" aren't a unified voice.
The models look angry, but what about? At first glance they just look like angry women with big 2h chainswords; I don't see how these models really convey anything beyond that?
Obviously you know the lore, but let's say that you didn't - what part of the model (without prior lore knowledge) would convey that these are fanatic religious zealots, who flagellate themselves, all while desperately charging into battle -all to gain redemption from their sins? Not saying the older models quite did that either, but I was hoping the new models would realize that full concept visually.
Also, I guess I was hoping the wardrobe would be a bit more.. gothic? Their suit is just too generic for me - like it's been sterilized of what conceptually makes a sister look like a sister. I want more flowing cloth, robes, executioner hoods, chains, etc.
For what's it's worth, I do like the muscle definition, but I don't like the ports (I find them to be more distracting than anything). Maybe it's that everything is grey in the render, but the ports remind me of screw joints in plastic toys where the arms and legs would bend. I'm not sure if painting them up would allow me unsee that.
edit: after reading my post, I sound a bit grumpy :p I'm actually not, but I'm unsure how to word it in a different way atm.
Pendix wrote: those gates ain't gonna keep themselves
A buzzword isn’t an argument.
Nor is it an effective argument when you effectively (and nearly literally) say "anyone who disagrees with me is a latecomer who doesn't really like Sisters as much as I do."
How is he wrong though? There's nothing wrong with coming to an army late but those of us who have been playing Sisters for several editions for nearly 20-odd years have a better understanding of what a repentia represents than someone just getting into the faction because plastics are finally arriving. Theres a LOT of fiction and fluff in 40k and you won't pick up the small details from just a casual reading of a codex. Like you won't find the specifics of the repentia ritual unless you've read one of the Black Library novels.
He's wrong because he's implying that it's impossible for a "true" Sisters fan to like the change because of some arbitrary definition of "fandom" based on how long they've been playing (which also implies that it's impossible for a long-time Sisters player to like a new change). It's the very definition of gatekeeping.
Handsomer_Dan wrote: The models look angry, but what about? At first glance they just look like angry women with big 2h chainswords; I don't see how these models really convey anything beyond that?
Obviously you know the lore, but let's say that you didn't - what part of the model (without prior lore knowledge) would convey that these are fanatic religious zealots, who flagellate themselves, all while desperately charging into battle -all to gain redemption from their sins?
Religious brandings on the forehead. Various kinds of spikes in ceremonial shapes through the skin in the thighs. Religious iconography on the belts and jewelry and their hoods. Scrolls of parchment listing the sins and failures they committed to consign themselves to the role of Repentia.
All of this stuff was listed on the Battle Sister Bulletin page announcing these miniatures, by the way.
By comparison, the only obviously religious thing on the RH render that was linked was the incense censer, which conveys religiosity but does not really convey penitence.
Maybe the Deathwing protagonists from the Space Hulk expansion of the same name, but even then not really.
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