in box of 5 models you will find: 15 heads, 5 backpacks, 10! guns!, and 5 bodies, 5 leg pieces, 5 arms.
Excuse me, but is it only me finding these guns ridiculously thick? I mean it is obvious that they do not even fit in the palms of the models. The first trooper looks like struggling to find a grip to handle and lift the gun.
Guys, I think that you should seriously consider of changing this.
I agree, those are very awkward poses. From a military standpoint none of those are feasable. If they are firing them, then the butt stocks need to be on the shoulder so the guy can aim and brace for recoil. The top one has the guy trying to pick up the rifle or conversely holding it and asking "what am I supped to do with this?", the second guy is trying to see if he can snap his right wrist when he fires. The third pose isnt bad for a guy running with a rifle, but definately not firing to try and hit something.
Col. Dash wrote: I agree, those are very awkward poses. From a military standpoint none of those are feasable. If they are firing them, then the butt stocks need to be on the shoulder so the guy can aim and brace for recoil. The top one has the guy trying to pick up the rifle or conversely holding it and asking "what am I supped to do with this?", the second guy is trying to see if he can snap his right wrist when he fires. The third pose isnt bad for a guy running with a rifle, but definately not firing to try and hit something.
Well, having served at the army, I can confirm that all that you say is true. Notwithstanding the fact that the first two ones fire with a HMG-equivalent gun. This kind of poses would have made sense for the Dark Legion Zombie soldiers, but for human highly trained soldiers they would be both unthinkable and dangerous.
praetor24 wrote: Excuse me, but is it only me finding these guns ridiculously thick?
No, you're not. The LMG is about 100% too wide, the 'Knacker about 80% if not more.
I was going to get 2 Bauhaus starter sets with my Razide level pledge, but with those forced action poses... probably won't happen. The first one is probably the biggest offender. I mean, Chasseures turned out well, what's going on here?
and.... don't forget you can assembly these models in more than 720 different combinations.... including moving arms up and down, shifting as you want.
in box of 5 models you will find: 15 heads, 5 backpacks, 10! guns!, and 5 bodies, 5 leg pieces, 5 arms.
Excuse me, but is it only me finding these guns ridiculously thick? I mean it is obvious that they do not even fit in the palms of the models. The first trooper looks like struggling to find a grip to handle and lift the gun.
Guys, I think that you should seriously consider of changing this.
That was my 1st thought too. I looks like someone trying to run around with a vacuum cleaner for a weapon.
Don't get me wrong thow, the guns do look good design and detail wise. They just aren't in proportion in anyway to the rest of the mini.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: and.... don't forget you can assembly these models in more than 720 different combinations.... including moving arms up and down, shifting as you want.
The problem isn't so much the poses, it's how they are holding their guns. Just watch a few vids of people fireing a M4 or a AK to understand what they are talking about.
They just aren't holding or fireing their weapons in any sort of a convincing way.
praetor24 wrote: Excuse me, but is it only me finding these guns ridiculously thick?
No, you're not. The LMG is about 100% too wide, the 'Knacker about 80% if not more.
I was going to get 2 Bauhaus starter sets with my Razide level pledge, but with those forced action poses... probably won't happen. The first one is probably the biggest offender. I mean, Chasseures turned out well, what's going on here?
I am in Dark Legion level, because I wanted to get a Bauhaus starter as well. It looks like I will downgrade to Razide, because I am not interested in getting sci-fi soldiers who run around trying to scare their enemies with hand-held hoovers (well, these guns are too big even for that).
As long as its possible to change the poses so the guns can be in the arm pit i will buy a squad. The third pose in really nice but the other two looks like thay are having a hard time picking upp the guns.
I agree that the guns are a bit... thick, and the stocks should be againts the shoulders. I also think that the arm/torso and leg combination for model #2 is not the best choice (It looks like the torso is in a running pose, but the legs are in a firing stance), but that's not really a serious issue since there's options.
Despite the silly guns and the awkward stocks, I still think Bauhaus is my favorite, though.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: and.... don't forget you can assembly these models in more than 720 different combinations.... including moving arms up and down, shifting as you want.
The proportions of the guns are off! This cannot be fixed with clever posing!
to me their is nothing wrong with the leg poses, and as for torso, if they are seperate you can to decide that for your self anyway.
But the poses are the arms need to be fixed. The stock should be braced agiest the shoulder or at-least tucked under the arm-pit. That is why most people seem to agree that the 3rd one isn't to bad. But I suspect that is because in the 3rd one their is no stock to complain about.
=/
Warzone Resurrection wrote: and.... don't forget you can assembly these models in more than 720 different combinations.... including moving arms up and down, shifting as you want.
The proportions of the guns are off! This cannot be fixed with clever posing!
don't worry, model's proportion are fixed on 3D printer software (scaling)
Warzone Resurrection wrote: and.... don't forget you can assembly these models in more than 720 different combinations.... including moving arms up and down, shifting as you want.
The proportions of the guns are off! This cannot be fixed with clever posing!
don't worry, model's proportion are fixed on 3D printer software (scaling)
The heads and torsos are looking great, and the leg poses are looking alot better. None of the bizarre impossible ankle bending like we saw on some of the earlier renders. The Backpacks still look killer awesome, and their is some really nice detail over all. It's a clean look, with out looking featureless.
If you can fix the way they are actually holding their guns and scale the guns down to something more reasonable, I do think you will have nailed down a really awesome mini with these Bauhaus troops. I can't speak for everyone one here, but despite some of the negative critism these are looking great over all. It's just thows minor gripes that hold them back.
in box of 5 models you will find: 15 heads, 5 backpacks, 10! guns!, and 5 bodies, 5 leg pieces, 5 arms.
The good: They design looks much better to me than the concepts. The poses are more dynamic than all the standing around guys.
The bad: Gun proportions are not good, they make a bolter look small. I know the one is an LMG but they are just too thick, Bauhaus guns should be pretty elegant. If you can't do stocks.....then don't do them. The attempt at making interesting poses is appreciated, but needs better execution. If you are going to include kneeling legs (which I like) you have to throw an extra set of regular legs in, as they do get repetitive and some people don't like them.
One of the nice aspects of resin is it does allow to repose with hot water so we can alter it a little.
The weapons are badly out of scale, the hand poses are really wrong, the shoulderpads are resting into thin air unsupported by somethign physical and the helmet is bad considering all the other concept art you had first shown.
The body is good because you retained the original concept art and the rolled down sleeves is a major improvement.
I am sorry to see such a great concept art be devolved into this.
the shoulderpads are resting into thin air unsupported by somethign physical
Didn't notice this before, can't unsee it now. The shoulder pads ought to be lowered a bit.
I happen to really like the helmets.
I'm assuming the shoulder pads might be a separate piece, since it's been stated the arms are seperate. Thus way in the renders they sit so high. But once they are a pyscial modle and glued on they will sit more naturally.
If it was it would be in the renders, no they sit in the same position the old Bauhaus shoulderpads of 1-ultimate were positioned sitting on thin air protecting against nothing.
praetor24 wrote: Excuse me, but is it only me finding these guns ridiculously thick?
No, you're not. The LMG is about 100% too wide, the 'Knacker about 80% if not more.
I was going to get 2 Bauhaus starter sets with my Razide level pledge, but with those forced action poses... probably won't happen. The first one is probably the biggest offender. I mean, Chasseures turned out well, what's going on here?
I am in Dark Legion level, because I wanted to get a Bauhaus starter as well. It looks like I will downgrade to Razide, because I am not interested in getting sci-fi soldiers who run around trying to scare their enemies with hand-held hoovers (well, these guns are too big even for that).
Ok I must admit I laughed to the point of stomach ache after the hoover part
I must agree that the guns are too big and the poses are at least awkward! Scale the guns and let us see some real firing positions .
PsychoticStorm wrote: If it was it would be in the renders, no they sit in the same position the old Bauhaus shoulderpads of 1-ultimate were positioned sitting on thin air protecting against nothing.
But if they are a seperate pieace, their is nothing to stop you from glueing them on so they sit lower and more natural. It also means that people can choose to glue them on sitting it the "classic" position if that's their fancy.
I say this because it was started the arms, torso, and legs will be separate pieces, and I don't see how these shoulder pads as they stand are going to be moulded to either the arms or torso right now. especial if they are able to go plastic like they hope to. It looks like they will have to be a separate piece either way.
I could be off the mark of course, but just because the rends "don't show" the shoulder pads as a separate part, doesn't mean they aren't. The renders don't show the arms and legs as separate parts after all. But as they said in the post just abit above yours that they plan to include enough parts to allow up to "720 different combinations".
Looks like a better gun size but the pose is still bad. Please look at pictures of modern soldiers for poses. Stop trying to do over the top "dynamic" poses. It's just not working.
Taarnak wrote: Looks like a better gun size but the pose is still bad. Please look at pictures of modern soldiers for poses. Stop trying to do over the top "dynamic" poses. It's just not working.
I like everything about the model except the yoga stance. Have a look at SWAT or infantry moving and shooting. Otherwise all the proportions look pretty good. He for trained trooper would be getting screamed/made fun of by a drill sergeant for that pose. You never will shoot straight across the body like that, as the model shows, you cant use the stock and shoulder for stability. He will not hit anything he is shooting at like that. The legs of course are a yoga pose and having pulled a rifle out to try the pose out to make sure I wasnt off base, so unstable it isnt funny. Troops hunch when they move in combat but unless they are jihadis trained troops keep their weapons snug on their shoulders when actively in combat so they can snap it up and get a quick accurate shot off(in theory).
If you want to be persnickety about the pose - Take my word for this, the position of the weapon is perfect for gas mask firing drill, which for me is every 6 months and nothings changed in regard to the drill in the last 15 years...
- Stock in the crook of the elbow, sight rolled towards eye as the weapon is rotated along the lateral line...
How else could you sight with a bulky gas-filter blocking your ability to pull the stock against your cheek?
It's perfect, justification is justifying - stop sooking.
Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
Same for the shoulder pads, they need to be substantially smaller as well.
If you guys are going for realistic, then by all means go with realistic! Let GW be GW, with their outsized pauldrons and ridiculous weapons. Think modern, low-drag/high-speed, slick and smooth not bulky and bunched.
It looks like you should obtain a replica weapon and some body armor in order to try out poses before you draw them or have someone model for you, because there are certainly no reference materials you know, on the internet of how soldiers move and fight.
Same for the shoulder pads, they need to be substantially smaller as well.
If you guys are going for realistic, then by all means go with realistic! Let GW be GW, with their outsized pauldrons and ridiculous weapons. Think modern, low-drag/high-speed, slick and smooth not bulky and bunched.
It looks like you should obtain a replica weapon and some body armor in order to try out poses before you draw them or have someone model for you, because there are certainly no reference materials you know, on the internet of how soldiers move and fight.
Did you miss the part where he posted the picture of what the actual weapon size would be?
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
I agree completely.
I kinda realized that, so started trying to give both positive and negative criticism to be more productive.
Speaking personally, if the guns are scaled down when the prototype is printed then the Hussars will be absolutely superb models. There is also always an easy way to fix any issues with posing a gun with a stock, just cut it off.
95 reasons... form warzonegame.com:
Sergei Mannerheim took his seat in the middle of economy class on the passenger jet along with the other passengers. He didn’t look out of the ordinary compared to the rest of them, just a basic business suit that displayed his spindly form. If the other passengers knew who he was they would likely wonder what a member of the board of Cybertronic was doing on a commercial jet instead of his own private one. The truth was that he did not have a private jet, and he preferred it that way. Cybertronic was a corporation committed to the people, and Sergei truly enjoyed the company of the great unwashed masses of society.
Flying commercial also afforded him a measure of privacy, exemplified by the Cybertronic saying “public is private.” The other corperations just loved to lambast Cybertronic for these sayings, calling them “doublethink” but there was a greater truth in the seemingly contradictory phrases. In truth these phrases were like the old Dark Eden koans. When one examines the surface of the phrase the ideas of public and private seem contradictory, but digging beneath the surface shows a key factor of human behavior. If he had taken a private jet alone everyone in the know would be watching him, knowing where he was going. On the other hand by taking a public jet someone would have to be specifically looking for him to notice his name among the thousands, possibly millions traveling that day. It would be unlikely that it would be known he was gone before he got back. It was like trying to spot a single person in a crowd when they look just like the rest of the crowd.
A young woman with long red hair and the robes of a member of the Brotherhood took a seat next to him. He glanced over at her. To many men she would be the perfect specimen of beauty, but Sergei was uninterested in physical beauty. He extended his hand to her. “Sergei Mannerheim, nice to meet you.”
She shook his hand. He made sure not to use a firm handshake, it lured people into a false sense of security. “Anne Rose, a pleasure.” They introduced themselves to each other, then Anne asked Sergei about the Edicts of Toth and Cybertronic’s relation with them.
“Miss. Rose, the question is not whether Cybertronic follows the Edicts of Toth, but what are the reasons for the edicts in the first place?”
“well for starters they prevent man from tampering with technologies he should not.”
“and why should he not?”
“so as not to have them corrupted by Dark Symmetry.”
“there in lays the question: is it truly the machine that is corrupted, or is it the hand that makes the machine? Cybertronic has had no problems with Dark Symmetry despite all our advanced technology.”
Their debate continued well into the flight, never becoming aggressive and always staying polite. When the plane landed Sergei invited Anne to come with him to dinner at a local café. To his surprise she agreed. As they waited for the meal to come Sergei felt he was beginning to change her mind regarding Cybertronic.
In Anne’s mind she could not believe what was happening. She had always been instructed that Cybertronic members were nothing but mindless fanatical drones, but here was the head of the company who seemed charming and polite, the perfect gentleman. Could she really be falling in love with this gangly, pale young man?
Then the peace and tenderness of their dinner was shattered by a man in the armor of an inquisitor entering the café and approaching their table. “first it was trying to escape from your training, then you try to spare a heretic because of the civilians he used as shields, now I find you consorting with a prince of darkness. Your past transgressions could be forgiven, this however cannot!”
Anne looked panicked when the inquisitor said she could not be forgiven. She supplicated herself before the inquisitor. Weeping she begged: “please I promise I’ll be the most pious woman ever, please just don’t send me to Dominic!”
Sergei shot up from the table. “now listen, I don’t know what you’re going to do to her, but if she doesn’t want to go with you she’s not going!”
The inquisitor cocked his head towards Sergei. “she is a servant of the Cardinal, she has no choice in the matter.”
“well I say she does!”
“you and what army?” the inquisitor challenged.
Sergei gave a mental command to the Cybertronic agents sitting around the café who sprang into action. They quickly filled the inquisitor full of hot lead, but not before he drew his pistol and discharged a shot into Anne’s spine. She fell to the floor motionless, probably dead.
It should have ended there, but soon more Brotherhood soldiers tried to storm the café. They were soon dispatched. One of the agents walked behind Sergei as he cradled the body of Anne. Through the Cybertronic sensor network he could see that there were two more teams coming from the kitchen, and a variable horde of them massing down the street. He signaled for a transport to pick them up on the roof of the building, ETA two minutes. Ordering two of the agents to carry Anne’s body he borrowed a pistol from another.
They waited for the two assault teams to make it into a long hallway between the kitchen and the dining room before they sprung the trap on them. Using thermal optical implants they fired through the walls of the café and eliminated the teams without missing a shot. They then proceeded through the kitchen and up the stairs to the roof. As the transport landed they filed in and hooked Anne up to the medevac gurney. That would stabilize her if she was still alive, and preserve her for reanimation if she was not.
As the transport made its way to Cybertronic headquarters Sergei opened a line of communication with two of his operatives: Mr. Hammer and Mr. Trick. “ah Mr. Mannerheim, so nice of you to call. We were just finishing up with that little leak you planned. Worked like a charm.”
“that will have to wait, I have a priority mission that I need you to attend to.”
“can it please wait just a few minutes? I’ve spent all day preparing this bombe surprise to be delivered to a Mr. Broody, and I’d like to see the expression on his face when his desert blows him to kingdom come.”
“fine, you have one hour, then I need you to access the Brotherhood’s personnel files and get me anything on a member called Anne Rose.”
“oh that shouldn’t be too hard, they keep the files off site of the cathedral. Anything else you need us to do while we’re at it?”
“yes I’m sending you a visual file, I need you to distribute it to the news agencies.”
“done and done.”
An hour later Sergei stood before a hastily arranged press conference made up of every news organization on Luna. A podium had been moved to the steps of the Cybertronic building to accommodate the mass of reporters. None of them knew why they were here, but they had all been informed that Cybertronic was preparing a major announcement. They were all ready to broadcast the press conference live across the system. He tapped the microphones on the podium before beginning his speech. “good evening brothers and sisters, for are we not all brothers and sisters of humanity? We all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and feel the same feelings. We at our core are all equal; we are all members of the human race.
However some would have us be less the equal, they would deem themselves to lord over us by claiming the only connection with the divine. Brothers and sisters I speak of the Brotherhood. for over a thousand years they have lorded over us lowly humans by imposing strict control over our every action and thought. Their priests have demanded the sweat of your brows as payment to enter the Promised Land; their inquisitors have kidnapped our children, and killed without trial any who resist their power.
Brothers and sisters this has happened before, almost two thousand years ago the religious authority did many similar things, but one man would have none of this. In a fit of righteous rage he composed ninety five theses and nailed them to the door of a church. That one simple act would change the world, and usher in the golden age of man. His idea was simple: divinity is within each and every one of us, and we do not need a church or a priest or even a book to access this divinity.”
Amidst the crowd a vagabond who called himself Nathaniel had heard enough. Drawing the pistol that nice priest had given him he fired two shots at the podium. The first shot went wide, but the second hit Sergei dead center of the nose, splattering gore and brain matter across some of the closer cameras. “by the will of the Cardinal, the heretics shall be purged!” Nathaniel screamed before sprinting to find a place to take shelter.
Sergei’s attendants quickly snatched up his limp body and dragged it inside. Hopefully they could still save him. Or at least whatever they could save of him.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
I believe not, when I saw the concept art I saw warzone been pushed to the modern era, revitalized and reimagined, after "user feedback" we get backpedaled to the aesthetics warzone had in the 90's cool back then I suppose, in my opinion unacceptable 20 years after, realistic design has progressed and the competition has risen too.
What is more worrying is how willing is Prodos to sacrifice their initial vision in order to cater a few people in nostalgia, this makes, me at least, uncertain of what products we will get in the end and really hope to see at least renders of the sketched units, cause after the Bauhaus redesign my pledge shrank and if the unrendered units do not get rendered or get rendered in similar 90;s fashion, it will shrink even more.
Sergei Mannerheim took his seat in the middle of economy class on the passenger jet along with the other passengers. He didn’t look out of the ordinary compared to the rest of them, just a basic business suit that displayed his spindly form. If the other passengers knew who he was they would likely wonder what a member of the board of Cybertronic was doing on a commercial jet instead of his own private one. The truth was that he did not have a private jet, and he preferred it that way. Cybertronic was a corporation committed to the people, and Sergei truly enjoyed the company of the great unwashed masses of society.
Flying commercial also afforded him a measure of privacy, exemplified by the Cybertronic saying “public is private.” The other corperations just loved to lambast Cybertronic for these sayings, calling them “doublethink” but there was a greater truth in the seemingly contradictory phrases. In truth these phrases were like the old Dark Eden koans. When one examines the surface of the phrase the ideas of public and private seem contradictory, but digging beneath the surface shows a key factor of human behavior. If he had taken a private jet alone everyone in the know would be watching him, knowing where he was going. On the other hand by taking a public jet someone would have to be specifically looking for him to notice his name among the thousands, possibly millions traveling that day. It would be unlikely that it would be known he was gone before he got back. It was like trying to spot a single person in a crowd when they look just like the rest of the crowd.
A young woman with long red hair and the robes of a member of the Brotherhood took a seat next to him. He glanced over at her. To many men she would be the perfect specimen of beauty, but Sergei was uninterested in physical beauty. He extended his hand to her. “Sergei Mannerheim, nice to meet you.”
She shook his hand. He made sure not to use a firm handshake, it lured people into a false sense of security. “Anne Rose, a pleasure.” They introduced themselves to each other, then Anne asked Sergei about the Edicts of Toth and Cybertronic’s relation with them.
“Miss. Rose, the question is not whether Cybertronic follows the Edicts of Toth, but what are the reasons for the edicts in the first place?”
“well for starters they prevent man from tampering with technologies he should not.”
“and why should he not?”
“so as not to have them corrupted by Dark Symmetry.”
“there in lays the question: is it truly the machine that is corrupted, or is it the hand that makes the machine? Cybertronic has had no problems with Dark Symmetry despite all our advanced technology.”
Their debate continued well into the flight, never becoming aggressive and always staying polite. When the plane landed Sergei invited Anne to come with him to dinner at a local café. To his surprise she agreed. As they waited for the meal to come Sergei felt he was beginning to change her mind regarding Cybertronic.
In Anne’s mind she could not believe what was happening. She had always been instructed that Cybertronic members were nothing but mindless fanatical drones, but here was the head of the company who seemed charming and polite, the perfect gentleman. Could she really be falling in love with this gangly, pale young man?
Then the peace and tenderness of their dinner was shattered by a man in the armor of an inquisitor entering the café and approaching their table. “first it was trying to escape from your training, then you try to spare a heretic because of the civilians he used as shields, now I find you consorting with a prince of darkness. Your past transgressions could be forgiven, this however cannot!”
Anne looked panicked when the inquisitor said she could not be forgiven. She supplicated herself before the inquisitor. Weeping she begged: “please I promise I’ll be the most pious woman ever, please just don’t send me to Dominic!”
Sergei shot up from the table. “now listen, I don’t know what you’re going to do to her, but if she doesn’t want to go with you she’s not going!”
The inquisitor cocked his head towards Sergei. “she is a servant of the Cardinal, she has no choice in the matter.”
“well I say she does!”
“you and what army?” the inquisitor challenged.
Sergei gave a mental command to the Cybertronic agents sitting around the café who sprang into action. They quickly filled the inquisitor full of hot lead, but not before he drew his pistol and discharged a shot into Anne’s spine. She fell to the floor motionless, probably dead.
It should have ended there, but soon more Brotherhood soldiers tried to storm the café. They were soon dispatched. One of the agents walked behind Sergei as he cradled the body of Anne. Through the Cybertronic sensor network he could see that there were two more teams coming from the kitchen, and a variable horde of them massing down the street. He signaled for a transport to pick them up on the roof of the building, ETA two minutes. Ordering two of the agents to carry Anne’s body he borrowed a pistol from another.
They waited for the two assault teams to make it into a long hallway between the kitchen and the dining room before they sprung the trap on them. Using thermal optical implants they fired through the walls of the café and eliminated the teams without missing a shot. They then proceeded through the kitchen and up the stairs to the roof. As the transport landed they filed in and hooked Anne up to the medevac gurney. That would stabilize her if she was still alive, and preserve her for reanimation if she was not.
As the transport made its way to Cybertronic headquarters Sergei opened a line of communication with two of his operatives: Mr. Hammer and Mr. Trick. “ah Mr. Mannerheim, so nice of you to call. We were just finishing up with that little leak you planned. Worked like a charm.”
“that will have to wait, I have a priority mission that I need you to attend to.”
“can it please wait just a few minutes? I’ve spent all day preparing this bombe surprise to be delivered to a Mr. Broody, and I’d like to see the expression on his face when his desert blows him to kingdom come.”
“fine, you have one hour, then I need you to access the Brotherhood’s personnel files and get me anything on a member called Anne Rose.”
“oh that shouldn’t be too hard, they keep the files off site of the cathedral. Anything else you need us to do while we’re at it?”
“yes I’m sending you a visual file, I need you to distribute it to the news agencies.”
“done and done.”
An hour later Sergei stood before a hastily arranged press conference made up of every news organization on Luna. A podium had been moved to the steps of the Cybertronic building to accommodate the mass of reporters. None of them knew why they were here, but they had all been informed that Cybertronic was preparing a major announcement. They were all ready to broadcast the press conference live across the system. He tapped the microphones on the podium before beginning his speech. “good evening brothers and sisters, for are we not all brothers and sisters of humanity? We all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and feel the same feelings. We at our core are all equal; we are all members of the human race.
However some would have us be less the equal, they would deem themselves to lord over us by claiming the only connection with the divine. Brothers and sisters I speak of the Brotherhood. for over a thousand years they have lorded over us lowly humans by imposing strict control over our every action and thought. Their priests have demanded the sweat of your brows as payment to enter the Promised Land; their inquisitors have kidnapped our children, and killed without trial any who resist their power.
Brothers and sisters this has happened before, almost two thousand years ago the religious authority did many similar things, but one man would have none of this. In a fit of righteous rage he composed ninety five theses and nailed them to the door of a church. That one simple act would change the world, and usher in the golden age of man. His idea was simple: divinity is within each and every one of us, and we do not need a church or a priest or even a book to access this divinity.”
Amidst the crowd a vagabond who called himself Nathaniel had heard enough. Drawing the pistol that nice priest had given him he fired two shots at the podium. The first shot went wide, but the second hit Sergei dead center of the nose, splattering gore and brain matter across some of the closer cameras. “by the will of the Cardinal, the heretics shall be purged!” Nathaniel screamed before sprinting to find a place to take shelter.
Sergei’s attendants quickly snatched up his limp body and dragged it inside. Hopefully they could still save him. Or at least whatever they could save of him.
What a horrible piece of fluff. My eyes weep blood. I just hope it's not official.
Sergei Mannerheim took his seat in the middle of economy class on the passenger jet along with the other passengers. He didn’t look out of the ordinary compared to the rest of them, just a basic business suit that displayed his spindly form. If the other passengers knew who he was they would likely wonder what a member of the board of Cybertronic was doing on a commercial jet instead of his own private one. The truth was that he did not have a private jet, and he preferred it that way. Cybertronic was a corporation committed to the people, and Sergei truly enjoyed the company of the great unwashed masses of society.
Flying commercial also afforded him a measure of privacy, exemplified by the Cybertronic saying “public is private.” The other corperations just loved to lambast Cybertronic for these sayings, calling them “doublethink” but there was a greater truth in the seemingly contradictory phrases. In truth these phrases were like the old Dark Eden koans. When one examines the surface of the phrase the ideas of public and private seem contradictory, but digging beneath the surface shows a key factor of human behavior. If he had taken a private jet alone everyone in the know would be watching him, knowing where he was going. On the other hand by taking a public jet someone would have to be specifically looking for him to notice his name among the thousands, possibly millions traveling that day. It would be unlikely that it would be known he was gone before he got back. It was like trying to spot a single person in a crowd when they look just like the rest of the crowd.
A young woman with long red hair and the robes of a member of the Brotherhood took a seat next to him. He glanced over at her. To many men she would be the perfect specimen of beauty, but Sergei was uninterested in physical beauty. He extended his hand to her. “Sergei Mannerheim, nice to meet you.”
She shook his hand. He made sure not to use a firm handshake, it lured people into a false sense of security. “Anne Rose, a pleasure.” They introduced themselves to each other, then Anne asked Sergei about the Edicts of Toth and Cybertronic’s relation with them.
“Miss. Rose, the question is not whether Cybertronic follows the Edicts of Toth, but what are the reasons for the edicts in the first place?”
“well for starters they prevent man from tampering with technologies he should not.”
“and why should he not?”
“so as not to have them corrupted by Dark Symmetry.”
“there in lays the question: is it truly the machine that is corrupted, or is it the hand that makes the machine? Cybertronic has had no problems with Dark Symmetry despite all our advanced technology.”
Their debate continued well into the flight, never becoming aggressive and always staying polite. When the plane landed Sergei invited Anne to come with him to dinner at a local café. To his surprise she agreed. As they waited for the meal to come Sergei felt he was beginning to change her mind regarding Cybertronic.
In Anne’s mind she could not believe what was happening. She had always been instructed that Cybertronic members were nothing but mindless fanatical drones, but here was the head of the company who seemed charming and polite, the perfect gentleman. Could she really be falling in love with this gangly, pale young man?
Then the peace and tenderness of their dinner was shattered by a man in the armor of an inquisitor entering the café and approaching their table. “first it was trying to escape from your training, then you try to spare a heretic because of the civilians he used as shields, now I find you consorting with a prince of darkness. Your past transgressions could be forgiven, this however cannot!”
Anne looked panicked when the inquisitor said she could not be forgiven. She supplicated herself before the inquisitor. Weeping she begged: “please I promise I’ll be the most pious woman ever, please just don’t send me to Dominic!”
Sergei shot up from the table. “now listen, I don’t know what you’re going to do to her, but if she doesn’t want to go with you she’s not going!”
The inquisitor cocked his head towards Sergei. “she is a servant of the Cardinal, she has no choice in the matter.”
“well I say she does!”
“you and what army?” the inquisitor challenged.
Sergei gave a mental command to the Cybertronic agents sitting around the café who sprang into action. They quickly filled the inquisitor full of hot lead, but not before he drew his pistol and discharged a shot into Anne’s spine. She fell to the floor motionless, probably dead.
It should have ended there, but soon more Brotherhood soldiers tried to storm the café. They were soon dispatched. One of the agents walked behind Sergei as he cradled the body of Anne. Through the Cybertronic sensor network he could see that there were two more teams coming from the kitchen, and a variable horde of them massing down the street. He signaled for a transport to pick them up on the roof of the building, ETA two minutes. Ordering two of the agents to carry Anne’s body he borrowed a pistol from another.
They waited for the two assault teams to make it into a long hallway between the kitchen and the dining room before they sprung the trap on them. Using thermal optical implants they fired through the walls of the café and eliminated the teams without missing a shot. They then proceeded through the kitchen and up the stairs to the roof. As the transport landed they filed in and hooked Anne up to the medevac gurney. That would stabilize her if she was still alive, and preserve her for reanimation if she was not.
As the transport made its way to Cybertronic headquarters Sergei opened a line of communication with two of his operatives: Mr. Hammer and Mr. Trick. “ah Mr. Mannerheim, so nice of you to call. We were just finishing up with that little leak you planned. Worked like a charm.”
“that will have to wait, I have a priority mission that I need you to attend to.”
“can it please wait just a few minutes? I’ve spent all day preparing this bombe surprise to be delivered to a Mr. Broody, and I’d like to see the expression on his face when his desert blows him to kingdom come.”
“fine, you have one hour, then I need you to access the Brotherhood’s personnel files and get me anything on a member called Anne Rose.”
“oh that shouldn’t be too hard, they keep the files off site of the cathedral. Anything else you need us to do while we’re at it?”
“yes I’m sending you a visual file, I need you to distribute it to the news agencies.”
“done and done.”
An hour later Sergei stood before a hastily arranged press conference made up of every news organization on Luna. A podium had been moved to the steps of the Cybertronic building to accommodate the mass of reporters. None of them knew why they were here, but they had all been informed that Cybertronic was preparing a major announcement. They were all ready to broadcast the press conference live across the system. He tapped the microphones on the podium before beginning his speech. “good evening brothers and sisters, for are we not all brothers and sisters of humanity? We all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and feel the same feelings. We at our core are all equal; we are all members of the human race.
However some would have us be less the equal, they would deem themselves to lord over us by claiming the only connection with the divine. Brothers and sisters I speak of the Brotherhood. for over a thousand years they have lorded over us lowly humans by imposing strict control over our every action and thought. Their priests have demanded the sweat of your brows as payment to enter the Promised Land; their inquisitors have kidnapped our children, and killed without trial any who resist their power.
Brothers and sisters this has happened before, almost two thousand years ago the religious authority did many similar things, but one man would have none of this. In a fit of righteous rage he composed ninety five theses and nailed them to the door of a church. That one simple act would change the world, and usher in the golden age of man. His idea was simple: divinity is within each and every one of us, and we do not need a church or a priest or even a book to access this divinity.”
Amidst the crowd a vagabond who called himself Nathaniel had heard enough. Drawing the pistol that nice priest had given him he fired two shots at the podium. The first shot went wide, but the second hit Sergei dead center of the nose, splattering gore and brain matter across some of the closer cameras. “by the will of the Cardinal, the heretics shall be purged!” Nathaniel screamed before sprinting to find a place to take shelter.
Sergei’s attendants quickly snatched up his limp body and dragged it inside. Hopefully they could still save him. Or at least whatever they could save of him.
What a horrible piece of fluff. My eyes weep blood. I just hope it's not official.
Sergei Mannerheim took his seat in the middle of economy class on the passenger jet along with the other passengers. He didn’t look out of the ordinary compared to the rest of them, just a basic business suit that displayed his spindly form. If the other passengers knew who he was they would likely wonder what a member of the board of Cybertronic was doing on a commercial jet instead of his own private one. The truth was that he did not have a private jet, and he preferred it that way. Cybertronic was a corporation committed to the people, and Sergei truly enjoyed the company of the great unwashed masses of society.
Flying commercial also afforded him a measure of privacy, exemplified by the Cybertronic saying “public is private.” The other corperations just loved to lambast Cybertronic for these sayings, calling them “doublethink” but there was a greater truth in the seemingly contradictory phrases. In truth these phrases were like the old Dark Eden koans. When one examines the surface of the phrase the ideas of public and private seem contradictory, but digging beneath the surface shows a key factor of human behavior. If he had taken a private jet alone everyone in the know would be watching him, knowing where he was going. On the other hand by taking a public jet someone would have to be specifically looking for him to notice his name among the thousands, possibly millions traveling that day. It would be unlikely that it would be known he was gone before he got back. It was like trying to spot a single person in a crowd when they look just like the rest of the crowd.
A young woman with long red hair and the robes of a member of the Brotherhood took a seat next to him. He glanced over at her. To many men she would be the perfect specimen of beauty, but Sergei was uninterested in physical beauty. He extended his hand to her. “Sergei Mannerheim, nice to meet you.”
She shook his hand. He made sure not to use a firm handshake, it lured people into a false sense of security. “Anne Rose, a pleasure.” They introduced themselves to each other, then Anne asked Sergei about the Edicts of Toth and Cybertronic’s relation with them.
“Miss. Rose, the question is not whether Cybertronic follows the Edicts of Toth, but what are the reasons for the edicts in the first place?”
“well for starters they prevent man from tampering with technologies he should not.”
“and why should he not?”
“so as not to have them corrupted by Dark Symmetry.”
“there in lays the question: is it truly the machine that is corrupted, or is it the hand that makes the machine? Cybertronic has had no problems with Dark Symmetry despite all our advanced technology.”
Their debate continued well into the flight, never becoming aggressive and always staying polite. When the plane landed Sergei invited Anne to come with him to dinner at a local café. To his surprise she agreed. As they waited for the meal to come Sergei felt he was beginning to change her mind regarding Cybertronic.
In Anne’s mind she could not believe what was happening. She had always been instructed that Cybertronic members were nothing but mindless fanatical drones, but here was the head of the company who seemed charming and polite, the perfect gentleman. Could she really be falling in love with this gangly, pale young man?
Then the peace and tenderness of their dinner was shattered by a man in the armor of an inquisitor entering the café and approaching their table. “first it was trying to escape from your training, then you try to spare a heretic because of the civilians he used as shields, now I find you consorting with a prince of darkness. Your past transgressions could be forgiven, this however cannot!”
Anne looked panicked when the inquisitor said she could not be forgiven. She supplicated herself before the inquisitor. Weeping she begged: “please I promise I’ll be the most pious woman ever, please just don’t send me to Dominic!”
Sergei shot up from the table. “now listen, I don’t know what you’re going to do to her, but if she doesn’t want to go with you she’s not going!”
The inquisitor cocked his head towards Sergei. “she is a servant of the Cardinal, she has no choice in the matter.”
“well I say she does!”
“you and what army?” the inquisitor challenged.
Sergei gave a mental command to the Cybertronic agents sitting around the café who sprang into action. They quickly filled the inquisitor full of hot lead, but not before he drew his pistol and discharged a shot into Anne’s spine. She fell to the floor motionless, probably dead.
It should have ended there, but soon more Brotherhood soldiers tried to storm the café. They were soon dispatched. One of the agents walked behind Sergei as he cradled the body of Anne. Through the Cybertronic sensor network he could see that there were two more teams coming from the kitchen, and a variable horde of them massing down the street. He signaled for a transport to pick them up on the roof of the building, ETA two minutes. Ordering two of the agents to carry Anne’s body he borrowed a pistol from another.
They waited for the two assault teams to make it into a long hallway between the kitchen and the dining room before they sprung the trap on them. Using thermal optical implants they fired through the walls of the café and eliminated the teams without missing a shot. They then proceeded through the kitchen and up the stairs to the roof. As the transport landed they filed in and hooked Anne up to the medevac gurney. That would stabilize her if she was still alive, and preserve her for reanimation if she was not.
As the transport made its way to Cybertronic headquarters Sergei opened a line of communication with two of his operatives: Mr. Hammer and Mr. Trick. “ah Mr. Mannerheim, so nice of you to call. We were just finishing up with that little leak you planned. Worked like a charm.”
“that will have to wait, I have a priority mission that I need you to attend to.”
“can it please wait just a few minutes? I’ve spent all day preparing this bombe surprise to be delivered to a Mr. Broody, and I’d like to see the expression on his face when his desert blows him to kingdom come.”
“fine, you have one hour, then I need you to access the Brotherhood’s personnel files and get me anything on a member called Anne Rose.”
“oh that shouldn’t be too hard, they keep the files off site of the cathedral. Anything else you need us to do while we’re at it?”
“yes I’m sending you a visual file, I need you to distribute it to the news agencies.”
“done and done.”
An hour later Sergei stood before a hastily arranged press conference made up of every news organization on Luna. A podium had been moved to the steps of the Cybertronic building to accommodate the mass of reporters. None of them knew why they were here, but they had all been informed that Cybertronic was preparing a major announcement. They were all ready to broadcast the press conference live across the system. He tapped the microphones on the podium before beginning his speech. “good evening brothers and sisters, for are we not all brothers and sisters of humanity? We all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and feel the same feelings. We at our core are all equal; we are all members of the human race.
However some would have us be less the equal, they would deem themselves to lord over us by claiming the only connection with the divine. Brothers and sisters I speak of the Brotherhood. for over a thousand years they have lorded over us lowly humans by imposing strict control over our every action and thought. Their priests have demanded the sweat of your brows as payment to enter the Promised Land; their inquisitors have kidnapped our children, and killed without trial any who resist their power.
Brothers and sisters this has happened before, almost two thousand years ago the religious authority did many similar things, but one man would have none of this. In a fit of righteous rage he composed ninety five theses and nailed them to the door of a church. That one simple act would change the world, and usher in the golden age of man. His idea was simple: divinity is within each and every one of us, and we do not need a church or a priest or even a book to access this divinity.”
Amidst the crowd a vagabond who called himself Nathaniel had heard enough. Drawing the pistol that nice priest had given him he fired two shots at the podium. The first shot went wide, but the second hit Sergei dead center of the nose, splattering gore and brain matter across some of the closer cameras. “by the will of the Cardinal, the heretics shall be purged!” Nathaniel screamed before sprinting to find a place to take shelter.
Sergei’s attendants quickly snatched up his limp body and dragged it inside. Hopefully they could still save him. Or at least whatever they could save of him.
What a horrible piece of fluff. My eyes weep blood. I just hope it's not official.
No, its fan based.
I had thought so, but thanks so much for confirming it and for actually caring to answer
If they post stuff here, they want constructive criticism. I have been involved in WZ since the beginning as well, even helped playtest one of the expansions of 1st edition. I have been looking forward to a revamp for awhile and wont be taking my pledge away regardless. However I am not some "Yes man, fan boy" like the droves that play GW that will sit there and blow smoke claiming how great something is when it is crap. That said, I havent seen anythign that looks like crap so far. I do however want the game to while keeping the early aesthetics, be updated to new and improved more realistic models. If you want the game to succeed over some of the other skirmish games out there, new and old, the models must be exemplary, cool looking, and in realistic poses. GW gets away with having loads of silly looking models, they have legions of fanboys that rarely say boo if a model looks bad(the chaos possessed models are one of the few exceptions I can think of off hand where even the fanboys cried foul). Now I will agree, posting something saying "X model looks like crap" is a pretty useless thing to post and doesnt help. Since these are WIPs however, posting "X looks like crap and here is why...." is a bit more constructive. So yes, while these are WIP I will not be a blind fan boy, I will post the good and the bad, what I expect and what I hope, I would expect that is the point of posting things here and reacting to fan responses.
I completely agree with Psychotic Storm there except I think the Brotherhood guys look far better than they did in the old days and much more streamlined while still keeping the brotherhood look.
I liked the fluff thing too by the way, its very keeping with the original WZ style of writing and background.
Col. Dash wrote: If they post stuff here, they want constructive criticism. I have been involved in WZ since the beginning as well, even helped playtest one of the expansions of 1st edition. I have been looking forward to a revamp for awhile and wont be taking my pledge away regardless. However I am not some "Yes man, fan boy" like the droves that play GW that will sit there and blow smoke claiming how great something is when it is crap. That said, I havent seen anythign that looks like crap so far. I do however want the game to while keeping the early aesthetics, be updated to new and improved more realistic models. If you want the game to succeed over some of the other skirmish games out there, new and old, the models must be exemplary, cool looking, and in realistic poses. GW gets away with having loads of silly looking models, they have legions of fanboys that rarely say boo if a model looks bad(the chaos possessed models are one of the few exceptions I can think of off hand where even the fanboys cried foul). Now I will agree, posting something saying "X model looks like crap" is a pretty useless thing to post and doesnt help. Since these are WIPs however, posting "X looks like crap and here is why...." is a bit more constructive. So yes, while these are WIP I will not be a blind fan boy, I will post the good and the bad, what I expect and what I hope, I would expect that is the point of posting things here and reacting to fan responses.
I completely agree with Psychotic Storm there except I think the Brotherhood guys look far better than they did in the old days and much more streamlined while still keeping the brotherhood look.
I liked the fluff thing too by the way, its very keeping with the original WZ style of writing and background.
Was this line of commentary really necessary? If you need to bash GW to justify this KS, maybe there is mor wrong than you think?
But that clearly isn't something the creators are concerned about fixing where it's clearly wrong. Ref: Brotherhood Dancers, Hussar Yoga Masters...
While I think they should get a lot of credit for putting themselves "out there" and taking a lot of criticism and responding where they think they should, they do not respond to everything. Which considering everything that they have to do with such limited resources I totally understand but I'm sure frustrate some. It's not me putting my time and money on the line to make this so whatever they want visually, even if I don't like it, they get respect from me for doing this at all and then being open about it. I wish them the success they desire to have.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: So there is nothing to be worry about as we wont send to production anything that fans would hate!
Oh no, we'll be at this for forever!
There actually is a rather simple way that they could make everyone happy, I think. At least in regards to the Bauhaus hussars...
Make the shoulder pads a separate piece that can be glued on either way.
Include enough extra head options in the box so that you can make them look like either the original concepts they posted or the new renders.
Taarnak wrote: Looks like a better gun size but the pose is still bad. Please look at pictures of modern soldiers for poses. Stop trying to do over the top "dynamic" poses. It's just not working.
~Eric
Eric, I said gun, not the pose.
brynolf wrote:That is an old render. rodos brought it up now just to show the gun size.
Fair enough, but looking at the other poses posted, my criticism still stands.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote:Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
So we should only cheer lead then? Not gonna happen from me. When I see problems from a commercial outfit, I am going to point them out. I'll try not to be a jerk about it but I'm not gonna sugar coat it either.
cincydooley wrote:"Problems?" Simply because you don't like an aesthetic doesn't make it a problem.
I was really referring more to the size of the guns and the pose there. Sorry for being unclear.
Alpharius wrote:This is probably a good time to remind everyone of RULE #1 here on Dakka Dakka: be polite.
Barring a brand-new user, I think everyone here is being civil enough.
In the interest of providing an alternative to the "problems" pointed out with the shoulder pads, here is my idea for how to "fix" them:
{Excuse the quick and dirty Photoshop job. It does illustrate my idea well enough, but it isn't the prettiest thing...)
I really do want this game to do well. Sorry if it seems like I don't.
That is pretty cool. I especially like they didnt go with the old typical blue and silver of Cybertronic, and the cracking base is a great touch. I think it needs big energy cannons over the shoulders. Are there going to be weapon attachments? I always viewed Cyber as a corporate version of Drake's "Legion of the Damned" series. Lots and lots of guns and weapons mounted all over the place with cynical cyborg personalities.
Octopussy wrote: I found a picture of a painted Everassur, the painting of this model is really ace!!! Its growing on me and mm happy they are doing new stuff.
As much as I dislike this guy as a member of Cybertronic, it is a very good model in it's own right and it could fit into other systems pretty well.
Octopussy wrote: I found a picture of a painted Everassur, the painting of this model is really ace!!! Its growing on me and mm happy they are doing new stuff.
As much as I dislike this guy as a member of Cybertronic, it is a very good model in it's own right and it could fit into other systems pretty well.
I totally agree with HMV on this one. Nothing about is says Cybertronic (to me) but it is an excellent model.
Running dudes look good and the second photo of the guy standing looks good for a guy bracing for recoil and firing from the hip. He has a better chance of hitting the target than the yoga hussar did
With more realistic guns I'm optimistic the Bauhaus will turn out good. I don't want minis from the 90s. That's one reason why I no longer collect GW stuff.
Very nice, even though you guys are getting a lot of grief I think in the end we can all agree the end result is becoming very nice and will be a better product. Looks great, looking forward to Bauhaus now where in the beginning I was very dissapointed
Much better!
Thank you for accepting the feedback. I can see that you're not having an easy job, but you want "our" money, so you better do what we tell you to do (don't take this seriously please)
There actually is a rather simple way that they could make everyone happy, I think. At least in regards to the Bauhaus hussars...
Make the shoulder pads a separate piece that can be glued on either way.
Include enough extra head options in the box so that you can make them look like either the original concepts they posted or the new renders.
Shoulders are separate piece and there are 15 heads in there.
Cant really say im a fan of the shoulder guard stile al together no matter where they would be, but as they are a separate piece thats an easy fix. The rest of the Hussar looks really nice!!
I read that, the question is, can they be used as it was showcased in the initial concept art and if the heads include similar to the initial concept art or 3 times 5 sets.
I believe there will be 3 times 5 of 3 different head types the two in the pic further up and and the and a different type of gasmaks that has been shown before with a helmet lip on the front.
Dont know if the shoulders will be hollow enough to fit the arms, but they can easily be made with plasticard and removing some of the cloth on the arm or green stufft.
I think they will look quite good without any armor on the arms to.
I believe they would not be hollow, they cannot be placed in the position shown (floating in the air) if they are.
Not gluing the shoulderpads while an option is models are sculpted to accommodate it, would make them less Bauhaus Hussars and more generic sci fi infantry.
Now that Banshee is something I could really sink my teeth into! Just look at the generic Capitol parts of the armor they are very good in concept; like the breast plate and shoulder guards. This are looking good for Capitol!
c0un7_z3r0 wrote:Aren't we being somewhat overly critical here? Prodos is trying to work with us yet we show them little love for it . I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
So we should only cheer lead then? Not gonna happen from me. When I see problems from a commercial outfit, I am going to point them out. I'll try not to be a jerk about it but I'm not gonna sugar coat it either.
~Eric
If anyone doesn't like what prodos do then they have all the right in the world to say so imo, but I'd say everyone benefits from critique (be it good or bad) to be made in a polite and civil tone (if you want to call that sugar coating, sure go ahead). That was my point.
I like the aerodynamic helm(ok ish) as opposed to the skull helm. As the old demo people used to say as a bonus vs GW, no stupid skulls everywhere. I dont know what the elephant noses will accomplish vs your normal flat helm but it looks cooler.
I much prefer the banshee-mask version. The duck-helm just never looked right to me. The teaser is looking awesome either way. Those lines scream Capitol but without looking like they strapped bricks to their arms.
Well, the actual models thankfully didn't take the duckiness to those extremes. The 1st edition fluff had it that the banshees wore masks they had stolen from slain Mishiman enemies, hence the japanese "oni" feel. 2nd ed ignored that, which I think was a pretty good move. Didn't feel right having a special corps where everyone wore identical stolen masks. If Prodos want to keep the original banshee fluff, they should make several different heads to make the "looted masks" thingy more plausible. Plus, they's have to make similar masks for the Mishiman troops.
Eh, the beakie helmet is awesome because it looks like a bacinet helm. Though I suppose if we are going for salvaged masks on the new banshees, maybe one of them found a Howard the Duck head in a cache of equipment? :p
Ronin_eX wrote: Eh, the beakie helmet is awesome because it looks like a bacinet helm. Though I suppose if we are going for salvaged masks on the new banshees, maybe one of them found a Howard the Duck head in a cache of equipment? :p
I'm glad to see this game making a comeback. When MC was first released in the roleplaying format I played it extensively. I am disappointed that Capitol isn't available yet (and may not be)...they are by far my favorite faction. I still may contribute and just hope that you get to that 85K goal. Nice work so far, good luck.
The interesting answer I got by Prodos to a question of my mine on the KS comments section:
"You will see blessed vestal Laura and the machinators within the next week, and hopefully the new heavy vehicle.
Painted minis also in the same timeline!"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Blessed Vestal Laura
praetor24 wrote: The interesting answer I got by Prodos to a question of my mine on the KS comments section:
"You will see blessed vestal Laura and the machinators within the next week, and hopefully the new heavy vehicle.
Painted minis also in the same timeline!"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Blessed Vestal Laura
Prodos Games was kind enough to send me 5 Undead Legionnaires. Here is what you get:
Crisp cast, high level resin parts. Enough to build 5 Legionnaires in many different poses. The material seems to be sturdy and is very light. Once assembled they look like this:
I needed just a little bit of greenstuff to smooth the shoulder parts. All the rest was more or less a perfect fit.
And the very 1st Warzone Resurrection Dark Legion mini painted. I used the 30 mm round lipped base Prodos asked me to use, IMO the base is a bit too big for the mini. While painting the mini I realised how detailed and realistic (OK, as much as a far future undead soldier can be) proportioned the mini is. The head and hands are really small when compared to other minis. The comparison shot below makes it evident.
From left to right: 1st Ed Warzone Mishima Samurai, current Undead Legionnaire prototype, Space Marine and Infinity trooper.
All in all I am very exited about the new range, I am very happy that I already pledged on this project. The bases are not really my thing and the mini is a bit on the small 28 mm side, maybe a slight upscaling before going into final production is recommended. Warzone as good as it gets!
http://www.adpublishing.de/html/warzone.html
I for one quite like the under exaggerated proportions
Although I must say for those who hope for hard plastic, I kind of doubt it. This set up for resin seems to translate best to those Restic materials many companies have been using now
@ Agis. Nice job. One thing I was wondering was if you think a lot of detail was lost between the render to the model you painted. I know some digital sculpters have to make the render have deeper cuts are you can barely see the detail when it come out in the end. So what is your experience here now that you have painted it. Was it easy to paint or did you have to pain most of the detail on yourself?
kenshin620 wrote: I for one quite like the under exaggerated proportions
Me too! Especially if you use the minis only together with other WZ Resurrection minis all will be fine!
Yeah, well this is a problem IMO. I have a large collection of minis from different manufacturers and the plan was to use the WZR models together with those for Stargrunt and other generic games. If the scale is as "unique" as that picture suggests, WZR will have a hard time fitting in with other miniatures.
And Prodos should also think about all the dough they could earn from 40K players looking for cool proxies. A new company is making it unnecessarily hard for themselves by not staying compatible with Gee-dub.
Sorry, i am all in favor of getting rid of hero scale and doing true scale. FW has a successful mini's line in true scale for their IG and no reason Prodos cant have the same and be successful. I like the scale compared to the other mini's in that pic. That marine is really showing his age.
@ Agis - thats a great paint job. I'll checked out all your old painted warzone minis and they are amazing! I do agree that they need to be upscaled slightly.
Col. Dash wrote: Sorry, i am all in favor of getting rid of hero scale and doing true scale. FW has a successful mini's line in true scale for their IG and no reason Prodos cant have the same and be successful. I like the scale compared to the other mini's in that pic. That marine is really showing his age.
Honestly True Scale 28mm makes normal marines look nice and beefy
Yes the legionary is a little bit in the small side, yes scaling the figures some would make wonders but I don't see why a game that already had a rich background, even better than 40K should use GW's heroic scale. But people that want and will use WZ miniatures as proxies for other games won't care about scale and those who do are the same that would not play against these miniatures anyways.
My only concern about the new figs scale is that I'm going to have to buy a new pair of glasses for detail work.
brynolf wrote: And Prodos should also think about all the dough they could earn from 40K players looking for cool proxies. A new company is making it unnecessarily hard for themselves by not staying compatible with Gee-dub.
And good for them. The only reason I'm at all interested in this is because the models won't work in 40k, on account of being much better sculpts and having more realistic proportions. If I want ugly models and terrible rules for unreasonable prices I'll just stick with GW.
Looks like that whole "we want women with more realistic proportions and dress" thing sure as hell went out the window. So now we have boob armor, her thighs and abdomen are completely unprotected, and of course she has a big bare ass with huge buttcrack sticking out because it wouldn't be your usual female model without that. I can't find the art now but I swear the artwork didn't look this ridiculous, she had to have had more armor than that.
Bassicly the issue is that the "under armour cat suit" is to skin tight in thow renders. like. That is ONE HELL of a wedgie she must have if it's riding up on her that bad.
Yeah, I assumed it was a suit, but it's fitting so tight it might as well not be there (most likely done on purpose, too many wrinkles/folds and people can't paint her as if she were nude). Doesn't help that she's rendered in more of a flesh tone, though.
There was a larger version of the art when they originally announced the stretch goal, but it's been replaced with that. I also tried a Google search and couldn't really find anything except the same image from the Kickstarter or pictures of the old model, which are pretty damn horrid. But yeah, she seems to be armored up to her thighs and has a plate covering her belly, whereas in the render it seems they've opted to accentuate her curves a little more by removing that stuff. It might also be just because it's a 2D image, but the "boob plate" doesn't offend me so much in the art. Strange they'd change the hair, though, and give her a ponytail instead of the much more obviously feminine long hair, since it seemed the whole point with this model was saying "It's a chick, stupid."
Wow those undead legionnaires look fantastic when painted.
As for Laura's boob armour and lack of clothes she actually looks more covered up than one version of the original model. Assuming that she is wearing some sort of catsuit (the creases on her legs would imply that she is) then there should be no skin being shown off at all unlike the old model. Ok the model is unrealistic compared with Angelica Drachen however I'm ok with that. It makes sense to me that a Bauhaus character would only wear a very practical uniform but a Brotherhood character would wear something rather ridiculous. The Brotherhood are a religious faction, the armour can almost certainly be said to have a ceremonial purpose in addition to it's more practical functions.
Here's the old model or at least one of them I think there was a version with a hood too:
IMO looking at that picture the new model is a great moderisation of the old design.
As for Laura's boob armour and lack of clothes she actually looks more covered up than one version of the original model. Assuming that she is wearing some sort of catsuit (the creases on her legs would imply that she is) then there should be no skin being shown off at all unlike the old model. Ok the model is unrealistic compared with Angelica Drachen however I'm ok with that. It makes sense to me that a Bauhaus character would only wear a very practical uniform but a Brotherhood character would wear something rather ridiculous. The Brotherhood are a religious faction, the armour can almost certainly be said to have a ceremonial purpose in addition to it's more practical functions.
Here's the old model or at least one of them I think there was a version with a hood too:
Spoiler:
IMO looking at that picture the new model is a great moderisation of the old design.
What about this verstion that is apparently showing no skin at all?
Spoiler:
In all honesty if they just made the under suit not a skin-tight cat-suit it would be fine.
Nick Ellingworth wrote: Here's the old model or at least one of them I think there was a version with a hood too:
IMO looking at that picture the new model is a great moderisation of the old design.
Oh god, get it away! Back!
I'll agree it's a much better effort than the original model, but I'm still not a big fan. Maybe it'll grow on me, I dunno, but I just think the form-fitting catsuit and having her cape being conveniently blown away to reveal her giant crack are a little too much. I'm not really much of an expert on this kinda thing, but surely there's something you could wear to cover that part of your body up, I'd imagine? I recall seeing more than one suit of armor that had something back there, anyway.
I must say though, I love that helmet design in the model Lockark posted. Obviously it's a little too large since the old model is not very well-proportioned, but I would love to see a helmet option like that for the new Laura, personally.
Nick Ellingworth wrote: I can't imagine it would be a problem for Prodos to add an extra head. They're already doing it for other figures.
Laura does come with a helmeted head version
Automatically Appended Next Post: Agis, thanks for posting. Great paint job!
When one looks at the size comparison and takes into account a space marine is ten foot tall and an undead is shrunken husk, I personally think that the only mini out of scale is the old Mishima on the left
Nick Ellingworth wrote: I can't imagine it would be a problem for Prodos to add an extra head. They're already doing it for other figures.
Laura does come with a helmeted head version
This is what I really like about WZR so far, options. You guys seem really keen to give us plenty of optional pieces for the models, please keep it up.
I have to point out that the artwork is the artwork of generic Valkiries (the one shown named Maria) Blessed Vestal Laura never had artwork and her painted miniature had black hair shown from her helmet, this was the first model and the really ugly one shown second, the stripper like model was a redesign
they did with second edition.
As far as the new attempt, while I am not a fan, it is truer to the original valkirie armour concept, which in the only illustration that ever existed for it (the above shown) it avoids mentioning what lies under the armour by throwing a under the armour tabart that covers the waist/ hips area, but only from the front.
It is left to the designer to fill this really big gap, Prodos decided a catsuit, valid option, she could not wear something high tech after all, this is warzone and such things are highly problematic.
And Prodos should also think about all the dough they could earn from 40K players looking for cool proxies. A new company is making it unnecessarily hard for themselves by not staying compatible with Gee-dub.
Prodos should think of doing their own stuff and not hope they will get money by been compatible with GW and frankly that's what everybody should do, GW has held hostage the entire models market long enough with their "heroic scale".
madzerker wrote: @ Agis. Nice job. One thing I was wondering was if you think a lot of detail was lost between the render to the model you painted. I know some digital sculpters have to make the render have deeper cuts are you can barely see the detail when it come out in the end. So what is your experience here now that you have painted it. Was it easy to paint or did you have to pain most of the detail on yourself?
If anything the model had more details before painting. I honestly wold have preferred less Details, but I am strange in this part. I like to improve minis with my painting, but with minis like WZR it is a difficult Task...
Laura isn't my bag, but she is an improvement over the stripperiffic version of 2nd. I already get Angelika so I am perfectly happy as it is (and it isn't like Dr. Diana will be flashing a lot of skin either). I think it is a nice marriage of the original art and the 2nd Edition model. Has some armour to it and the catsuit at least avoids the problem I always had with Reverend Moiras. Not the kind of thing I go in for, but I don't have to like every model (especially for factions I don't play!). In terms of general design I think it is a great modernization of the gamut of her old versions.
RoninXiC wrote: I'm just not sure if I can take this model seriously :(
STOP GIVING FEMALE MINIATURES LESS ARMOUR THAN MALE ONES.
It's stupid, lame, one-dimensional and incredibly sexist...
Would it be pedantic of me to point out that she is actually wearing more armour than the Hussars? Hussars have shoulder-pads, a breastplate and greaves covering the shins. Laura has a full (boob)breast-plate, beefier leg armour, a bit more armour on the arms, a full armoured collar/gorget, and shoulder pads. Hell even her boots are beefier.
The only real issue is that instead of wearing fatigues, she is wearing an ass-hugging skin-suit.
But in terms of armoured bits, she has more than a Hussar (which is a good thing, since Valks are supposed to be more heavily armoured). Even Angelika is less armoured (just, you know, wearing baggy pants).
No, this isn't a problem of less armour, this is a problem on wearing a catsuit instead of pants, which is its whole own thing. If anything this fixes the mistake of 2nd Edition (where she was wearing less armour) and brings her back to be the armoured warrior of 1st.
I agree she is big on the TNA, and that is why I'm not a fan. But the problems aren't the amount of armour she's wearing, but more the style. But she isn't quite verging on battle-corset, combat-thong and war-heels; so she isn't going as low as this industry can go at the very least. Not great, but not exactly KD-levels either. It also helps that they didn't put her in a cheesecake pose which is the other main issue I tend to have. She is in a reasonable pose and wearing more armour than some male infantry that looks well-armoured. Her only issue is that her body-suit is vacu-formed to her ass (and a minor case of boob-plate).
ergotoxin wrote: Well, Vince Diamond was pretty much a giant, wasn't he? At least he seemed so from Bonner's art.
Anyway, very nice paintjob AAN, looking forward to these models
Yeah, he was pretty big. And it looks like that conversion has longer legs than the original? Plus he stands on a higher base than the legionary. Still, it's obvious who is heroic scale and who is not
Edit2: (eh, what? No it was no double post... darn...)
Yeah, the short legs is a relic from the Bonner picture. They even had to come up with an explanation in the rules as to why his legs were so darn short. Evidently you get a +4 strength bonus if you saw off your legs...
The Capitol jetcycles will be interesting to see. I actually quite liked the 2nd edition redesigns of those, they had a pretty good, sleek design of things that could in fact move hella-fast.
Big Bob instead of Mitch Hunter is an interesting choice. Well, not that an update of the old Big Bob model isn't needed. Lookoing forward to seeing Prodos version of him.
I do not really see how it could not be :^) also judging from the concept art the extra troop choice unlocked will be Martian Banshee's. I am wondering if Capitol Free Marines are the infantry included in the starter box.
I do hope they modernize the capitol line like they did with bauhaus. Despite capitol being my favorite, they definitely seemed the corniest in terms if design/style choices. Please do NOT remain very faithful to the art posted above!!!!
warboss wrote: I do hope they modernize the capitol line like they did with bauhaus. Despite capitol being my favorite, they definitely seemed the corniest in terms if design/style choices. Please do NOT remain very faithful to the art posted above!!!!
I'm hoping for the same - lose as much of the ridiculous 80's/90's styling as possible, please!
warboss wrote: I do hope they modernize the capitol line like they did with bauhaus. Despite capitol being my favorite, they definitely seemed the corniest in terms if design/style choices. Please do NOT remain very faithful to the art posted above!!!!
What are you saying? You mean you have a hard time taking guys in football padding and baseball caps seriously as soldiers on a futuristic battlefield? Because-... man, I can't even be sarcastic about it. Those original minis are beyond silly. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how Prodos redesigns them.
Prodos should obviously make them look more like GW Space Marines, so they can be used as proxies. If they don't then they're stupid, they don't know how to do business, etc.
I kinda like that art, though...makes me wanna scream 'MERICA.
Sidstyler wrote: Prodos should obviously make them look more like GW Space Marines, so they can be used as proxies. If they don't then they're stupid, they don't know how to do business, etc.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Glad you're going with me on that.
I just hope they realize that just because the jetbikes are called Purple Sharks, doesn't mean they have to actually look like giant flying purple sharks.
>___>
Even the 2nd version of that model is really guilty of that. IMHO a new Purple Shark should be as close to it's original model, as the new Vulcan is to it's old model.
Lockark wrote: I just hope they realize that just because the jetbikes are called Purple Sharks, doesn't mean they have to actually look like giant flying purple sharks.
Indeed... something as simple as giving a modern aerodynamic scifi design a fin on the top and some teeth style art on the front (like nose cone art without necessarily having a nose cone!) would be enough to call it a shark without returning to the absurdity of a flying jetbike shaped like an actual purple shark...
Lockark wrote: I just hope they realize that just because the jetbikes are called Purple Sharks, doesn't mean they have to actually look like giant flying purple sharks.
Indeed... something as simple as giving a modern aerodynamic scifi design a fin on the top and some teeth style art on the front (like nose cone art without necessarily having a nose cone!) would be enough to call it a shark without returning to the absurdity of a flying jetbike shaped like an actual purple shark...
We need to reach that stretch goal first and unfortunately, the pledges are yo-yoing annoyingly till now.
I'm waiting to see some actual renders of those big hulking cyborgs, as the potential for a unit of Praetorian Combat Servitors is what's temping me. EDIT: Armoured Chasseurs are the ones I mean. Also, I'd be more interested if there was a pledge level for a single box with addons unlocked that wasn't being padded with a t-shirt I'll probably never wear.
I really want to see concept art for the Capitol. I hate to say it but they are the primary faction I am backing for. I am going to keep the kickstarter backed but if by the last day Captiol is still not unlocked I am going to drop from Cartel to Necromutant and add on a couple things.
Capitol and Dark Legion are the two armies I am pulling out of this Kickstarter. Cartel Level is going to get me two massive armies if we hit 85k.
Yodhrin wrote: I'm waiting to see some actual renders of those big hulking cyborgs, as the potential for a unit of Praetorian Combat Servitors is what's temping me. EDIT: Armoured Chasseurs are the ones I mean. Also, I'd be more interested if there was a pledge level for a single box with addons unlocked that wasn't being padded with a t-shirt I'll probably never wear.
I think you can do that by choosing a minimal pledge level and then adding the "add ons". Needs confirmation though.
Yodhrin wrote: I'm waiting to see some actual renders of those big hulking cyborgs, as the potential for a unit of Praetorian Combat Servitors is what's temping me. EDIT: Armoured Chasseurs are the ones I mean. Also, I'd be more interested if there was a pledge level for a single box with addons unlocked that wasn't being padded with a t-shirt I'll probably never wear.
Trade the t-shirt in for credit and get something else. It gets you £11 toward a squad box. That's why they decided to enact the credit system.
Whao. The Machinators look great. Thow I don't get why the guy in the middle is doing a pirouette?
Also why is the guy in the right trying to hold his gun by the spinning barrels? Actully on the topic of the mini-gun it seems kinda small, it also realy need a ammo feed/backback to make it more convinceing.
Spoiler:
The Machinators them selves look AWSOME thow. It's just some bizzar posesing and tweeking the mini-gun that holds them back.
I think the guy in the middle is jumping down from somewhere and is just about to land and if those guys are 40mm models then the MG isn't small at all. It's just the same size the chasseurs will be using. But yes, it's ob that he has his fingers on the spinning barrels. Anyway, these are the first renders. There will be improvement. Just look at the arms. They aren't holding their weapons like the undead legionnaires or hussars anymore.
Once again, some very nice renders, BUT I agree that holding the minigun like a rifle is kinda.... not so good. Should be a relatively simple fix to have him hold it properly as in Lockark's picture.
Other than that small quibble, I think they're great.
rhavien wrote: I think the guy in the middle is jumping down from somewhere and is just about to land
That is still a very bizzar pose for something that looks like it should be a walking tank with all that armour on.
rhavien wrote: if those guys are 40mm models then the MG isn't small at all. It's just the same size the chasseurs will be using. But yes, it's ob that he has his fingers on the spinning barrels. Anyway, these are the first renders. There will be improvement. Just look at the arms. They aren't holding their weapons like the undead legionnaires or hussars anymore.
I wasn't saying the mini-gun was to small. I said that it needs beefed up. For one the carry handle is too thin, also the barrles could be abit bigger/less thin. That would give it a more aggressive look. It's the right "size", but I think it should look alittle more "chunky" like the other guns.
Also like I said. The additon of a backpack/beltfeed would also help make it look "cooler", and add to "beefing" up the minigun.
The machinators got great potential but they are not quite there yet. I'd like the head to look more grim for starters, and the minigun does need some more love, a belt and a ammo-container on the back would look cool! And about the poses, I do believe they should look more like "I'm gonna take a stroll down this no-mans-land and I dare you to stop me!"... Looks great over all though!
I am happy the way Machinators turned up apart from their shoulderpads (they should be smaller and closer to their art) and the heads. I just hope that the Armoured Chasseurs are more faithful to their concept art.
Yodhrin wrote: I'm waiting to see some actual renders of those big hulking cyborgs, as the potential for a unit of Praetorian Combat Servitors is what's temping me. EDIT: Armoured Chasseurs are the ones I mean. Also, I'd be more interested if there was a pledge level for a single box with addons unlocked that wasn't being padded with a t-shirt I'll probably never wear.
Trade the t-shirt in for credit and get something else. It gets you £11 toward a squad box. That's why they decided to enact the credit system.
Edit - Multi-scooped
Ahhh OK thanks Ronin & co, I didn't even check the addons section as I'd just assumed that the swaps only applied to models. I may just go in regardless of how the Armoured Chasseurs turn out then, since I can always grab a couple of boxes of the regular Chasseurs who will make a brilliant basis for Servitors that don't look like mechanised hunchbacks with gigantism.
Also, I take it the various "[-£1 from RRP]" Giveaway bonuses only actually apply to the unit which is unlocked by the corresponding Stretch Goal, yes?
Yup, that is the case. They account for the initial £1 off of the KS stuff. Since everything will retail for £X.99 when it comes out. They probably didn't need to pop it on every stretch with new models though, I think that it confused a lot of people initially.
Miguelsan wrote: The KS continues growing merrily along, can we have a second Mishima Doomtrooper now .
(Actually I'm more interested in the vehicles and what's next fort the Brotherhood.)
M.
Indeed, we will be getting another vehicle announcement some time this week (come on Cybertronic! Daddy needs a new pair of droids!). And there are still all of the extra previews for the new units they are still working on. I think they'll manage through the slow period just fine and once this thing hits 30 days to go, the people that were waiting to shave a month off will probably hop on. Looking at what I'm getting so far at Dark Legion level, I'm quite happy. I will be loading up on more stuff this month, though. Those Machinators renders have sold me for the most part and if the Armoured Chasseur are more of the same I may have to grab them as well.
I'm liking everything I see so far, with a couple of minor issues. Why are the Cybertronic models so "bumpy"? All the Bonner art shows Cybertronic stuff as sleek and smooth. The immortal seems to be the only one that follows that pattern. Also, Machinators are close combat troops- where are the heat swords and shields?
Now another question- I see on the Kickstarter that there's an expected delivery date of June for some of these models. Does that mean we'll see stuff at GenCon or Origins? If so, I can guarantee that a bunch of my money will go to buying a bunch of Brotherhood stuff.
Bonner's art may show that, but Bonner was not the only artist that drew Cybertronic (or any other faction for that matter). Most of the interior, black and white art for Cybertronic shows them as a lot more gritty and industrial. This stuff goes along with the way Peter Bergting and others tended to draw them. Bonner was just one dude, a lot of people provided the art that makes Mutant Chronicles/Warzone (and Bonner gave Vince comically tiny legs... so small they had to come up with a background reason for it!). Like most factions, the aesthetics can be traced back to more than just a single artist. I for one always preferred the way Bergting drew Cyber, seemed more Cyberpunk to me.
As for the armament, between Mirror Men and Reavers I don't think Cybertronic needs further close combat specialists. I'm glad the Machinators seem to have gotten a role upgrade so they wont be overlapping with other units so much. They still appear to be armed for CQB and close support but insofar as they are heavily armed.
I agree while I like the Bonner art, I also like the other art as well. The MC world was drawn by many different artists and has a nifty style when you put it all together.
That said there is plenty of room for modernization of many of those icon styles. So lets cut Prodos a little slack as they revive Warzone from the dead.
Ronin_eX wrote: Bonner's art may show that, but Bonner was not the only artist that drew Cybertronic (or any other faction for that matter). Most of the interior, black and white art for Cybertronic shows them as a lot more gritty and industrial. This stuff goes along with the way Peter Bergting and others tended to draw them. Bonner was just one dude, a lot of people provided the art that makes Mutant Chronicles/Warzone (and Bonner gave Vince comically tiny legs... so small they had to come up with a background reason for it!). Like most factions, the aesthetics can be traced back to more than just a single artist. I for one always preferred the way Bergting drew Cyber, seemed more Cyberpunk to me.
As for the armament, between Mirror Men and Reavers I don't think Cybertronic needs further close combat specialists. I'm glad the Machinators seem to have gotten a role upgrade so they wont be overlapping with other units so much. They still appear to be armed for CQB and close support but insofar as they are heavily armed.
While this is somewhat true even the black and white art (which hardly gets any attention here ) found in the old rpg-books, or the non-bonner colored art from the WZ-books, at large followed along the same lines as the Bonner art. Sure most non-bonner art had a more "gritty and industrial" feel and the cybertronic did come across as more cyberpunk (more cyberpunk to the people I say!). But Bonner or not I'd say the look was largely consistent, the difference wasn't that big between the artists works (apart from how the cityscape were designed).
My opinion is that they should have followed faithfully their concept sketches for the Machinators. As it is now, their heads and shoulderpads are nothing like in the art and look much more odd on the renders. These two parts need definitely some tweaking.
praetor24 wrote: My opinion is that they should have followed faithfully their concept sketches for the Machinators. As it is now, their heads and shoulderpads are nothing like in the art and look much more odd on the renders. These two parts need definitely some tweaking.
I kind of agree, but I did not fancy their heads at the concept stage either, it looked and looks a bit "stupid". I don't know if they try to imitate Vince's stupid smile (which is fluffy I guess) but I'd like something more sinister. I agree on the sholder pads though, the current ones could be given to the Chasseurs instead (they need more clothes) .
praetor24 wrote: My opinion is that they should have followed faithfully their concept sketches for the Machinators. As it is now, their heads and shoulderpads are nothing like in the art and look much more odd on the renders. These two parts need definitely some tweaking.
I kind of agree, but I did not fancy their heads at the concept stage either, it looked and looks a bit "stupid". I don't know if they try to imitate Vince's stupid smile (which is fluffy I guess) but I'd like something more sinister. I agree on the sholder pads though, the current ones could be given to the Chasseurs instead (they need more clothes) .
Well, I hope that Prodos will notice our comments, because lately their KS comments page has been flooded with fanboys.
praetor24 wrote: Well, I hope that Prodos will notice our comments, because lately their KS comments page has been flooded with fanboys.
Yeah the KS page is a wee bit fanboyish, but ever since they locked their FB-site in an attempt to steer people into their official forum, I've had a feeling that the dynamic of the feedback have got a bit off thb. The beta-part of the forum works fine I guess but to split the miniature-feedback onto the different faction-sections seems a bit odd. I'm really into this project but to go back and forth between all sections is just to much of a hassle for me... There should be one section for design-feedback only where all the art gets presented where you can go and give your feedback. On top of that, prodos doesn't seem to be very present on the forum either (strangely enough, sure they have been great at responding to feedback this far but I hope they will continue doing that and that we haven't seen the end of that).
Sidstyler wrote: She doesn't really need to be showing skin, when basically her whole ass, crack and all, is prominently on display regardless.
And yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are going to be painting that suit blue...lol
I also don't like that. besides, someone said that for once a female character does not wear combat heels, well, just take a closer look at the render, see where her heel is? She is wearing combat platforms, not much different from heels, still damn uncomfortable for a warrior and rather cheap in general
£6 each packet? Are we kidding? This is more expensive than Forgeworld's kits. These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.
And what about the added value that we would have gotten when we reached the plastics' goal? I mean we go from a superior material (resin) to an inferior (plastic) what for?
For some clarity, the plastic sprues unlocked at £70k, will include extras as appropriate, including a heavy gun, special gun, shoulder pads etc.
These 'Value Pack Add-ons' are extras/variant that one may choose to buy to add extra 'flavour' to their force. They are £6 per pack and will include gun variants, head variants etc. They are not needed for the game, but are a customisable option. The value packs will not be available after Kickstarter, but some of the items may be sold separately in the future.
praetor24 wrote: £6 each packet? Are we kidding? This is more expensive than Forgeworld's kits. These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.
And what about the added value that we would have gotten when we reached the plastics' goal? I mean we go from a superior material (resin) to an inferior (plastic) what for?
They already clarified that these extra are extra. The plastic kits will come with their own set of extras (possibly even overlapping with the packs in some parts). And without knowing the exact number of bits in a pack, screaming "more expensive than Forgeworld" is a might bit premature. FW sells packs of 10 shoulder pads for £9 and dread weapons for close to the same. Some packs contain the equivalent of several heads (note that leader heads are pluralized), a vehicle-mounted weapon and some heavy and special weapons. Until we know how many pieces are in the pack they may well be a much better deal than something similar from FW.
skarsol wrote: Those are discount value packs! You're avoiding paying £8 or more post-Kickstarter! And resin is so passe.
Actually, the packs are Kickstarter exclusive. They will likely be out at a later time, but my guess they will be packaged as different units rather than a la carte. So, for example, the current Razide may be a Nasca Razide and they will put out one armed with a Nazgaroth later, or they may do individual special and heavy weapon troopers in resin. This is them getting together a bunch of extra bits and throwing them in a pack for KS only for the conversion freaks, the boxed sets will come with their own extras and bits either way, but a lot of fans were clamouring for bits and extras. Either way $8 isn't too terrible for some of them though the Bauhaus pack seems a bit light, though it will depend on how many heads they come with.
praetor24 wrote: £6 each packet? Are we kidding? This is more expensive than Forgeworld's kits. These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.
And what about the added value that we would have gotten when we reached the plastics' goal? I mean we go from a superior material (resin) to an inferior (plastic) what for?
They already clarified that these extra are extra. The plastic kits will come with their own set of extras (possibly even overlapping with the packs in some parts). And without knowing the exact number of bits in a pack, screaming "more expensive than Forgeworld" is a might bit premature. FW sells packs of 10 shoulder pads for £9 and dread weapons for close to the same. Some packs contain the equivalent of several heads (note that leader heads are pluralized), a vehicle-mounted weapon and some heavy and special weapons. Until we know how many pieces are in the pack they may well be a much better deal than something similar from FW.
skarsol wrote: Those are discount value packs! You're avoiding paying £8 or more post-Kickstarter! And resin is so passe.
Actually, the packs are Kickstarter exclusive. They will likely be out at a later time, but my guess they will be packaged as different units rather than a la carte. So, for example, the current Razide may be a Nasca Razide and they will put out one armed with a Nazgaroth later, or they may do individual special and heavy weapon troopers in resin. This is them getting together a bunch of extra bits and throwing them in a pack for KS only for the conversion freaks, the boxed sets will come with their own extras and bits either way, but a lot of fans were clamouring for bits and extras. Either way $8 isn't too terrible for some of them though the Bauhaus pack seems a bit light, though it will depend on how many heads they come with.
If you read the description a bit closer, you will see that there are also numbers there. Plus, the fact that FW is worse, does not mean that this is a good deal. I insist that these packs should be for free. I am not interested into freebies, but at some point Prodos has also to give something extra for its supporters, especially now that they will be saving lots of money with the switch to plastic. And I am sorry, what extra extra means? That's plain stupid. You either give extra for free or you try to squeeze some more from the cash cow.
Errrrm, yeah, when I saw that I was thinking "oh cool, more bitz", it took me a moment to realise they expect you to pay half the cost of the troop box for it.
Prodos wrote: For some clarity, the plastic sprues unlocked at £70k, will include extras as appropriate, including a heavy gun, special gun, shoulder pads etc.
These 'Value Pack Add-ons' are extras/variant that one may choose to buy to add extra 'flavour' to their force. They are £6 per pack and will include gun variants, head variants etc. They are not needed for the game, but are a customisable option. The value packs will not be available after Kickstarter, but some of the items may be sold separately in the future.
I will admit that at 1st the 75K stretch goal confused me. I thought it was to unlock extra options for the mini's that you were going to charge us for. Like we needed to buy these packs to get our heavy weapons and stuff. I was kinda confused why this kinda of stuff wasn't going to be on the plastic sprues.
After reading this comment on your kick starter, I now understand what your doing. We are going to be getting all thows options in the kits, just that these are alt verstions of the weapons and stuff for the modellers out their to give their force some flavour. Just alt looks for the options that are already in the box set. The update didn't make that wholly clear, but it is a cool idea once you understand how it works.
But my issue is that I'm not willing to drop that much on bitz packs when I don't even know if I will like them over the default bits the models are coming with! In some of these cases we haven't even seen what some of these default options will look like, let alone the alt versions!
=P
Yodhrin wrote: Errrrm, yeah, when I saw that I was thinking "oh cool, more bitz", it took me a moment to realise they expect you to pay half the cost of the troop box for it.
No chance.
Try saying that in the comments page of their KS. The "fans" will tear you apart
Yodhrin wrote: Errrrm, yeah, when I saw that I was thinking "oh cool, more bitz", it took me a moment to realise they expect you to pay half the cost of the troop box for it.
No chance.
Try saying that in the comments page of their KS. The "fans" will tear you apart
Yeah, it didn't take me long to realise that KS comments are more like YouTube comments than anything else, heh.
I'm not very impressed by this add-on packs either, I will wait until we see pictures or the like but £ 6 does sound a bit steep for what we seem to get, especially considering this is a kickstarter. But we'll see, It's hard to judge the value without seeing what this "extra" really means and what's included in the box already.
Prodos wrote: For some clarity, the plastic sprues unlocked at £70k, will include extras as appropriate, including a heavy gun, special gun, shoulder pads etc.
These 'Value Pack Add-ons' are extras/variant that one may choose to buy to add extra 'flavour' to their force. They are £6 per pack and will include gun variants, head variants etc. They are not needed for the game, but are a customisable option. The value packs will not be available after Kickstarter, but some of the items may be sold separately in the future.
I will admit that at 1st the 75K stretch goal confused me. I thought it was to unlock extra options for the mini's that you were going to charge us for. Like we needed to buy these packs to get our heavy weapons and stuff. I was kinda confused why this kinda of stuff wasn't going to be on the plastic sprues.
After reading this comment on your kick starter, I now understand what your doing. We are going to be getting all thows options in the kits, just that these are alt verstions of the weapons and stuff for the modellers out their to give their force some flavour. The update didn't make that wholly clear, but it is a cool idea once you understand how it works.
That's where I'm at. Prodos are already adding on a score of free bits for the plastics. But some people want other options for the kits that are still resin (especially the big guys) that wouldn't be getting any upgrades or freebie bits because they cost the same to make as they did when we started. So we get some alternatives for the resin stuff, some head swaps and a few bits to help modellers out. Guys who like magnetizing gear will be well served by this.
I am still failing to see how $8 for a grab bag of conversion bits is too high. It's not like you require one pack to upgrade a single unit. By the sounds of it, you can modify a heavy, swap out some weaponry on your squads and likely have enough heads to give your squad leaders in several squads a makeover. Most people will only need one of 'em unless they are loading up on heavies like Vulcans and want them all to have close combat weapons (or want them all magnetized for either option).
Prodos are already adding freebies to the plastic boxes, the are just some spare bits. People have been baying for conversion bits and now Prodos are offering them for more units than just the infantry that are getting extra bits in plastic. The push back on this is more than a bit bewildering and I am again inching toward my opinion that Prodos should just ignore us, because we can't make up our minds.
Yodhrin wrote: Errrrm, yeah, when I saw that I was thinking "oh cool, more bitz", it took me a moment to realise they expect you to pay half the cost of the troop box for it.
No chance.
Try saying that in the comments page of their KS. The "fans" will tear you apart
it isn't when you say that, but when you say you "Insist they give them to you free" a bit different
Prodos wrote: For some clarity, the plastic sprues unlocked at £70k, will include extras as appropriate, including a heavy gun, special gun, shoulder pads etc.
These 'Value Pack Add-ons' are extras/variant that one may choose to buy to add extra 'flavour' to their force. They are £6 per pack and will include gun variants, head variants etc. They are not needed for the game, but are a customisable option. The value packs will not be available after Kickstarter, but some of the items may be sold separately in the future.
I will admit that at 1st the 75K stretch goal confused me. I thought it was to unlock extra options for the mini's that you were going to charge us for. Like we needed to buy these packs to get our heavy weapons and stuff. I was kinda confused why this kinda of stuff wasn't going to be on the plastic sprues.
After reading this comment on your kick starter, I now understand what your doing. We are going to be getting all thows options in the kits, just that these are alt verstions of the weapons and stuff for the modellers out their to give their force some flavour. The update didn't make that wholly clear, but it is a cool idea once you understand how it works.
That's where I'm at. Prodos are already adding on a score of free bits for the plastics. But some people want other options for the kits that are still resin (especially the big guys) that wouldn't be getting any upgrades or freebie bits because they cost the same to make as they did when we started. So we get some alternatives for the resin stuff, some head swaps and a few bits to help modellers out. Guys who like magnetizing gear will be well served by this.
I am still failing to see how $8 for a grab bag of conversion bits is too high. It's not like you require one pack to upgrade a single unit. By the sounds of it, you can modify a heavy, swap out some weaponry on your squads and likely have enough heads to give your squad leaders in several squads a makeover. Most people will only need one of 'em unless they are loading up on heavies like Vulcans and want them all to have close combat weapons (or want them all magnetized for either option).
Prodos are already adding freebies to the plastic boxes, the are just some spare bits. People have been baying for conversion bits and now Prodos are offering them for more units than just the infantry that are getting extra bits in plastic. The push back on this is more than a bit bewildering and I am again inching toward my opinion that Prodos should just ignore us, because we can't make up our minds.
If you read the list of bits 3/4 are specail weapon and heads for the bassic troops, with a set of bits for one of the resin modles. It was explained that these are alt verstions of the options that will already be in the plastic boxs.
It's kinda hard to ask ANYTHING for replacement bits when not only have we not seen what the replacements will look like, but in some cases we haven't see what bits these are even replaceing in the 1st place! As far as I'm aware we haven't even see what the default special weapon for hussars and undead legionnaires will look like. How do I know I even want to spend $8 on bits to swap them out? XD It's not that this it's a bad idea or even a stretch goal. It's that it came to early. As right now most people don't even have a grasp on what exactly is being added to the bassic troop boxes now that they are plastic.
I didn't even know we were getting extra bits in the bassic troop boxes now that they are plastic untill today! lol
also thinking about it... I'm also kinda confused about the CCW for the bauhaus vulcan. Does this mean the vulcan has rules for a CCW that is not in it's kit, and I will have to buy a separate bits pack just to get that option? Thows are the only bits that seem more like actual options for the model instead of just flavour bits.
=S
Yodhrin wrote: Errrrm, yeah, when I saw that I was thinking "oh cool, more bitz", it took me a moment to realise they expect you to pay half the cost of the troop box for it.
No chance.
Try saying that in the comments page of their KS. The "fans" will tear you apart
it isn't when you say that, but when you say you "Insist they give them to you free" a bit different
So, no one can insist on his opinion? Is "insist" a taboo word? Jesus!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lockark wrote: Thows are the only bits that seem more like actual options for the model instead of just flavour bits.
=S
Ronin_eX wrote: Prodos are already adding freebies to the plastic boxes, the are just some spare bits. People have been baying for conversion bits and now Prodos are offering them for more units than just the infantry that are getting extra bits in plastic. The push back on this is more than a bit bewildering and I am again inching toward my opinion that Prodos should just ignore us, because we can't make up our minds.
Sure people have been asking for bits but had prodos been more clear about which bits that is included already there would surely be less of a hassle about this add on (not that there have been anything near past outrages). And considering how the vulkan turned out, I'm glad they don't ignore us.
Please, let me explain myself to the people that say that I ask for freebies, because I am sure that they are lazy enough to not bother checking my previous posts in this thread. I will try to explain my points by using as an example a company we love to hate, GW.
-Let's say GW starts a KS to fund the release of a squad of Marines that it would release in any case.
-We pledge money, despite the fact that it looks pre-order-ish like and we do not whine. Why? Because we love the product.
-This squad comes in a box of 10 miniatures. We know that these miniatures will be in resin and that they have enough bits to assemble 10 figures. We have no clue what these bits are about, but we know that they are just the basic options. Meaning: body parts, bolters and two flamers.
-As we pour more money on this project (because we love it, I repeat), we reach the plastics' goal. Now, plastic's cheaper than resin, but we still pay the same price for the same product (the extra cost of the mould for plastics is already funded by our pledges). Still x quid for 10 Marines.
-GW says, ok. I will throw in some extra bits in your box. And now we get sergeant arms, a missile launcher, a sergeant banner, a sergeant head.
-GW says, ok, next goal is extra bits for extra money.
Now, please, tell me. Would people blame GW for presenting bits that should have been included from the start in the box, as "extra free bits" because the plastics' goal was reached?
Wouldn't people blame GW for trying to milk more money with the release of a kit of extra extra bits for a hardly bargain-level price, bits that appear to be basic option for the troops (like the CCW of the Vulcan for example)?
So, am I a freeloader, if I say that bits that should be in the kits in the first place should not and cannot be presented to as a pay-for-it add-on? It would be unethical even if this was not a KS.
Lockark wrote:
If you read the list of bits 3/4 are specail weapon and heads for the bassic troops, with a set of bits for one of the resin modles. It was explained that these are alt verstions of the options that will already be in the plastic boxs.
It's kinda hard to ask ANYTHING for replacement bits when not only have we not seen what the replacements will look like, but in some cases we haven't see what bits these are even replaceing in the 1st place! As far as I'm aware we haven't even see what the default special weapon for hussars and undead legionnaires will look like. How do I know I even want to spend $8 on bits to swap them out? XD It's not that this it's a bad idea or even a stretch goal. It's that it came to early. As right now most people don't even have a grasp on what exactly is being added to the bassic troop boxes now that they are plastic.
I didn't even know we were getting extra bits in the bassic troop boxes now that they are plastic untill today! lol
Don't worry, I'm still thinking the same thing. But based on a bare minimum reading I figure it may end up being a good deal. But as with a lot of stuff in this KS it tends to get developed as it is hit. So not even Prodos are likely 100% locked down on what is what just yet. They will have to actually get artists on the new bits now and we may have a bit of a wait before the contents (on the add-on packs and in the plastic kits) are locked down. At the very least many of the kits will need slight tweaks to take advantage of the new material and moulding methods so they will have a bit of work re-tooling all the kits to work for plastic. I wish they could have been 100% planned up to this point so they could give us a concrete list of contents, but they didn't know they would even get to this level, so it is at least understandable.
I will probably be waiting on the packs myself (I have enough other wants on the list to keep me busy). But once I know what is in the troop kits and what is in these things then I may grab one of each for Bauhaus and Cybertronic. But I'll at least wait until things are a bit more locked down (we still have to wait for £75k to actually hit after all).
also thinking about it... I'm also kinda confused about the CCW for the bauhaus vulcan. Does this mean the vulcan has rules for a CCW that is not in it's kit, and I will have to buy a separate bits pack just to get that option? Thows are the only bits that seem more like actual options for the model instead of just flavour bits.
=S
My guess is that they will probably sell the alternate big-boys as full variant models to keep the cost of individual kits down. So there will be a (whatever gun the current Razide has) Razide and a classic one, there will be a close combat Vulcan, and the flamer-HMG version, etc. This makes sense for resin big-boys. Down the line, if they pull a Privateer Press and make them in to plastic kits, then they can have all options in one box without a price jump. But in resin putting too many options in one box will balloon the price and may put some people off. The only downside to this is SKU bloat if they make too many variants.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Ronin_eX wrote: Prodos are already adding freebies to the plastic boxes, the are just some spare bits. People have been baying for conversion bits and now Prodos are offering them for more units than just the infantry that are getting extra bits in plastic. The push back on this is more than a bit bewildering and I am again inching toward my opinion that Prodos should just ignore us, because we can't make up our minds.
Sure people have been asking for bits but had prodos been more clear about which bits that is included already there would surely be less of a hassle about this add on (not that there have been anything near past outrages). And considering how the vulkan turned out, I'm glad they don't ignore us.
I agree, but they have £4k to hammer out the details and we already know they don't start developing for a goal until they hit it. So if the announcement is kind of vague, it is probably because they don't know exactly what the extras are yet. They only just hit plastic and now have to brainstorm extra bits for the kit. But I agree, until we see what the extras are, it will be hard to go in on one of these guys. Luckily, Prodos can use their work on whatever updates they are doing to the plastic kits to speed the add-on packs along if/when we hit £75k.
I mean, they only just finished developing the Hussar meant for resin casting. Now they have to update all of them for plastic and come up with what extra bits will be on there. All the while we are still looking forward to a wealth of new units that have yet to be revealed and they are supposed to have a new heavy vehicle announcement this week. So if they don't have the contents of the add-on 100% hammered out right now, I don't blame them. They do have a lot on their plate. But I agree with you, until I know the exact contents I will probably hold off (not like I don't have enough Vulcans with close combat weapons as it is). But it's not like they are available right this second, just something nice to look forward to and Prodos have a good amount of time to brainstorm for it.
praetor24 wrote: Please, let me explain myself to the people that say that I ask for freebies, because I am sure that they are lazy enough to not bother checking my previous posts in this thread. I will try to explain my points by using as an example a company we love to hate, GW.
-Let's say GW starts a KS to fund the release of a squad of Marines that it would release in any case.
-We pledge money, despite the fact that it looks pre-order-ish like and we do not whine. Why? Because we love the product.
-This squad comes in a box of 10 miniatures. We know that these miniatures will be in resin and that they have enough bits to assemble 10 figures. We have no clue what these bits are about, but we know that they are just the basic options. Meaning: body parts, bolters and two flamers.
-As we pour more money on this project (because we love it, I repeat), we reach the plastics' goal. Now, plastic's cheaper than resin, but we still pay the same price for the same product (the extra cost of the mould for plastics is already funded by our pledges). Still x quid for 10 Marines.
-GW says, ok. I will throw in some extra bits in your box. And now we get sergeant arms, a missile launcher, a sergeant banner, a sergeant head.
-GW says, ok, next goal is extra bits for extra money.
Now, please, tell me. Would people blame GW for presenting bits that should have been included from the start in the box, as "extra free bits" because the plastics' goal was reached?
Wouldn't people blame GW for trying to milk more money with the release of a kit of extra extra bits for a hardly bargain-level price, bits that appear to be basic option for the troops (like the CCW of the Vulcan for example)?
So, am I a freeloader, if I say that bits that should be in the kits in the first place should not and cannot be presented to as a pay-for-it add-on? It would be unethical even if this was not a KS.
You have serious issues with this kickstarter m8t, read comments , you'll get your free bits. This stretch goal was not planned as far as I know and as stated there is just an extra bits you can buy if you are hardcore, BUT you don't have to as you will have them anyway in the box. So what is your problem ?
Also a £6 for weapons + heads + other bits for walkers is that a lot? Are you real ? Look at FW or GW for conversion bits or go to Kromlech or maxmini just to compare your theory about Value for Money. Wake up, one weapon for FWGK dred cost me £6.00 ,ONE!
And stop crying like some 10 years old kid, if you don't like it ,take your money and leave and let them run that business.
Prodos should refund your pledge just to stop this BS coming from you. I think guys on KS already explained you politely to close your mouth, as you talk nonsense and this is not the first time! Whatever they post, show, snapshot I can see you and your demands from Prodos, because you don't like this or that... please, grow up.
Btw what is your pledge level if I may ask? Are you the one with £1 shouting just to #%^#$ them over?
As posted on the KS the bit packs look a little bit expensive but I'm with c0un7 lets wait until we see the pics before we scream bloody murder. I'm not in a rush to add bit packs to my pledge no matter what the price.
Wow, tables have turned. Praetor has been resoundingly in favor of this kickstarter. For him to now be accused of asking for "freebies" when he was hammering people earlier is kinda funny.
For what it's worth the kickstarter still doesn't have a value of less than retail at this point. I thank people for paying more for a product so I can get it cheaper in a few months.
Hulksmash wrote: Wow, tables have turned. Praetor has been resoundingly in favor of this kickstarter. For him to now be accused of asking for "freebies" when he was hammering people earlier is kinda funny.
For what it's worth the kickstarter still doesn't have a value of less than retail at this point. I thank people for paying more for a product so I can get it cheaper in a few months.
Speak for yourself buddy (as I'm sure you are), but as a Canadian, this is still a steal.
So I get to pay less for it now so you can pay less for it later. I see a win-win situation.
I am very excited for this! I LOVED this game back in the 90's, the mechanics were so fun, quick and intuitive. I hope the game mechanics remain largely the same. The models look great.
Too bad no Capitol in the first release, they were my favorite faction! I am sure they'll get to it though, if the game is popular.
Reecius wrote: I am very excited for this! I LOVED this game back in the 90's, the mechanics were so fun, quick and intuitive. I hope the game mechanics remain largely the same. The models look great.
Too bad no Capitol in the first release, they were my favorite faction! I am sure they'll get to it though, if the game is popular.
They are going to do a capitol stater set once they hit the 80K stretch goal. Still still 30 plus days to go, I got a feeling they will be sooner rather then latter.
Their is even a preview of sorts for what will be in the capitol stater box.
I appreciate that Prodos have been faithful to the original Valkyrie art (and it's from this notion I will direct my critique) and I do believe she got great potential but (these are my personal opinions, you don't have to agree):
- Her Valkyrie armor seems to have shrunk, the leg guards used to go all the way up to the hips and the robe (which now looks more like a loin-cloth) hardly revealed any shapes and I'd say the robe probably was supposed to cover the back as well. It seems, but I'm not sure, like she is also missing a big chunk of her chest plate. All in all, Valkyries used to look more protected by their armor that this render of Laura.
- Prodos version of Laura seems to have quite odd proportions. Especially the legs which seems to be quite out of proportion, to me they look to long compared to the rest of the body and the thighs seems to be disproportionet to the chins. This makes her look a little bit as if she's made out nothing but legs .
- The pose looks a bit bland, it could be much more dynamic, she doesent strike me as a seasoned fighter but more like she can't move properly.
- Her proportions together with her pose and armor makes her look a bit odd at the moment. Laura has lost the knightly grace of the Valkyrie art which at least I believe made them look so cool. The old art also made them look more protected by their armor which i believe made more sense. The old Valkyrie art made them look like graceful woman knights in space but at the moment Laura just looks like some random chick with some armorplates. I'd like to to see more of the knight ...
Hulksmash wrote: Wow, tables have turned. Praetor has been resoundingly in favor of this kickstarter. For him to now be accused of asking for "freebies" when he was hammering people earlier is kinda funny.
For what it's worth the kickstarter still doesn't have a value of less than retail at this point. I thank people for paying more for a product so I can get it cheaper in a few months.
Allow me a small correction. I NEVER hammered anyone in this thread. A search through my previous posts can easily prove that As for the rest, I totally agree with you. It's really funny but I am gonna leave it just there.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: @praetor24 - It seems like I'm not the only one who found god.ra's little outrage to be quite unjustified.
Not at all I am not responding, because I simply deny to feed the troll and derail the thread completely.
On a different matter, I agree with your points about Laura Vestal, the reason I had not posted anything is because I am not a Brotherhood player and so I did not feel directly "involved". I think that the guys at Prodos should review their last two renders (Vestal and Machinators), because although they have potential as models, they are not quite there yet. I believe that some small tweaks here and there can bring the models 2 levels up. Lately though, Prodos seems much slower (compared to the beginning of this KS) to responding to the backers' feedback. And between that and receiving a pounding in the forums (their facebook forum is like that as well), if you express healthy concerns or a non-positive opinion for a model, I think that giving feedback is getting more and more difficult.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I received also some answers by Prodos regarding their plastics.
1) What plastic will the plastic models be made of?
Styrene plastic
2) Which company is going to produce the plastic models?
We (Prodos) will produce them
3) Is it going to be hard styrene (like the models of GW, for example) or something else?
Yes
4) Is there any chance we might see an example of these plastic models before the end of the KS?
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: @praetor24 - It seems like I'm not the only one who found god.ra's little outrage to be quite unjustified.
Not at all I am not responding, because I simply deny to feed the troll and derail the thread completely.
On a different matter, I agree with your points about Laura Vestal, the reason I had not posted anything is because I am not a Brotherhood player and so I did not feel directly "involved". I think that the guys at Prodos should review their last two renders (Vestal and Machinators), because although they have potential as models, they are not quite there yet. I believe that some small tweaks here and there can bring the models 2 levels up. Lately though, Prodos seems much slower (compared to the beginning of this KS) to responding to the backers' feedback. And between that and receiving a pounding in the forums (their facebook forum is like that as well), if you express healthy concerns or a non-positive opinion for a model, I think that giving feedback is getting more and more difficult.
Dimos/Praetor24, we recieve feedback and apply it as we can (it was less than a week ago we changed the Hussars with that in mind only to upset some to a significant amount e.g Pyscotic storm). We have 10 or so different designs going now, all of which get exceedingly positive feedback and rage like fury in equal amounts.
To be honest, it has been very hard to understand what you wanted over the last 24 hours, except for more free stuff.
On the Kickstarter page I have answered your concise questions! Maybe you can share those on all the sites you have equally shared your rage and fury at us bringing out an EXTRA stretched goal for OPTIONAL bits (designed for the modeller/customiser/old schooler who love the Nazgaroth design etc.).
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: @praetor24 - It seems like I'm not the only one who found god.ra's little outrage to be quite unjustified.
Not at all I am not responding, because I simply deny to feed the troll and derail the thread completely.
On a different matter, I agree with your points about Laura Vestal, the reason I had not posted anything is because I am not a Brotherhood player and so I did not feel directly "involved". I think that the guys at Prodos should review their last two renders (Vestal and Machinators), because although they have potential as models, they are not quite there yet. I believe that some small tweaks here and there can bring the models 2 levels up. Lately though, Prodos seems much slower (compared to the beginning of this KS) to responding to the backers' feedback. And between that and receiving a pounding in the forums (their facebook forum is like that as well), if you express healthy concerns or a non-positive opinion for a model, I think that giving feedback is getting more and more difficult.
Dimos/Praetor24, we recieve feedback and apply it as we can (it was less than a week ago we changed the Hussars with that in mind only to upset some to a significant amount e.g Pyscotic storm). We have 10 or so different designs going now, all of which get exceedingly positive feedback and rage like fury in equal amounts.
To be honest, it has been very hard to understand what you wanted over the last 24 hours, except for more free stuff.
On the Kickstarter page I have answered your concise questions! Maybe you can share those on all the sites you have equally shared your rage and fury at us bringing out an EXTRA stretched goal for OPTIONAL bits (designed for the modeller/customiser/old schooler who love the Nazgaroth design etc.).
Let me make some things clear, because I think that my stance has been misunderstood.
First of all, you blame me for rage. It is true that my messages might have been read as a bit harsh, but this is mostly because I tried to keep them as short as possible. There was what could be understood as rage (I would have said frustration) in the comments that were responses to the people that attacked me inappropriately in their own comments and blamed me for asking for free stuff.
Secondly, I never asked for free stuff. You can check my previous posts here where I explain in detail my position or my older posts where I say that I am willing to pay extra for extra miniatures etc. My point was that since you switched the basic boxes to plastics, these extra bits (which appear to give basic options for the troops) should be included in these plastic kits. I have the right to believe that extra extra bits on this stage, where we do not know what there is in the boxes, make not much of a sense.
Thirdly, if you follow my whole posts' history on this thread you will see that I was always one of the first to update it with posts of your renders and news from the facebook forum and KS page. Most of the times, even before the "official" Prodos account updated this thread. People who check my KS projects' support history will notice that the WZ is the first one I support. This happened because I opened an account JUST for WZ. I simply did not bother for other miniature projects in the past. This shows how much I loved the game and how much I believed in your effort.
Finally, if you read my last post (the one immediately before this one), you will see that it is also updated with the "concise answers" you gave me about the nature of the new plastic kits, their production, etc. So, once again you blame me, just because you failed to get properly informed.
So, as a piece of advice, please, follow my posts better and do not get carried away by some of the posters that attacked me. Please, learn to distinguish between genuine supporters, haters and fanboys. As far as my record can show, I was anything but against you or your efforts to resurrect WZ, to the point that I have been blamed myself for being too much of an enthusiastic supporter of the project. To quote another user of DakkaDakka:
Hulksmash wrote: Wow, tables have turned. Praetor has been resoundingly in favor of this kickstarter. For him to now be accused of asking for "freebies" when he was hammering people earlier is kinda funny.
This, however, does not mean that I cannot have a different opinion on certain matters or not provide feedback that might not be to your liking. Blaming me for being a freeloader is not the right way to respond to my criticism.
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
Hard to debate with a faceless entity, but some of your representatives have been quite belligerent around the web. And throwing around words like "rage and fury" and such isn't exactly nice either. If you can't stand the heat, then kindly get out of the kitchen. These people are throwing money at a PROMISE you give them, not an actual product, and so have their doubts, further compounded by the awful presentation and the fuzzy nature of your KS, and have the right to express them and demand clarifications. Keep this in mind and learn to respond in a cool-headed manner instead of accusatory and/or inflammatory.
As for the bits pack comment, why, from your Kickstarter page. I quote:
"CYBERTRONIC:
- 1 grenade launcher,
- 1 heavy weapon for troop quads,
- 1 heavy weapon for Cuirassier Atilla
+ squad leader head."
Last time I checked, 1+1+1+1=4. And if this is not the case, and the pack contains multiples of any, or all, then kindly edit the picture to state so.
praetor24 wrote: £6 each packet? Are we kidding? This is more expensive than Forgeworld's kits. These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.
And what about the added value that we would have gotten when we reached the plastics' goal? I mean we go from a superior material (resin) to an inferior (plastic) what for?
Resin is utter crap compared to proper injected plastic sprues IMO. I'd love them to make everything as such just like Dreamforge Games did in their kickstarter...
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.
I understood the following 'These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.' as a request/demand for the products to be free. If that was not your intent I apologise for my misunderstanding.
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
Hard to debate with a faceless entity, but some of your representatives have been quite belligerent around the web. And throwing around words like "rage and fury" and such isn't exactly nice either. If you can't stand the heat, then kindly get out of the kitchen. These people are throwing money at a PROMISE you give them, not an actual product, and so have their doubts, further compounded by the awful presentation and the fuzzy nature of your KS, and have the right to express them and demand clarifications. Keep this in mind and learn to respond in a cool-headed manner instead of accusatory and/or inflammatory.
As for the bits pack comment, why, from your Kickstarter page. I quote:
"CYBERTRONIC:
- 1 grenade launcher,
- 1 heavy weapon for troop quads,
- 1 heavy weapon for Cuirassier Atilla
+ squad leader head."
Last time I checked, 1+1+1+1=4. And if this is not the case, and the pack contains multiples of any, or all, then kindly edit the picture to state so.
Your maths is correct, although it does say for 'troops squads' which is plural.
Thank you for picking out the typo on the 'squad leader head' which should and will shortly read 'squad leader heads'
Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.
Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.
On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.
@prodos - even if praetor24 would have asked for some free swag I'd say you went over the line. And if you check praetor24's post log you will se the freeloder-accusation was unjust. Sure it's up to you how you treat your investors, but this is my opinion.
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.
But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.
Not sure where you got 4 piece from!
Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!
I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.
I understood the following 'These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.' as a request/demand for the products to be free. If that was not your intent I apologise for my misunderstanding.
As I wrote before, my point was this:
Secondly, I never asked for free stuff. You can check my previous posts here where I explain in detail my position or my older posts where I say that I am willing to pay extra for extra miniatures etc. My point was that since you switched the basic boxes to plastics, these extra bits (which appear to give basic options for the troops) should be included in these plastic kits. I have the right to believe that extra extra bits on this stage, where we do not know what there is in the boxes, make not much of a sense.
But in any case, I think that a very quick look through my previous posts here and in the KS comments' section would have showed to you clearly what my stance was towards this KS. In fact, I can find many responses to my posts by you that are like: "Thank you Praetor24/Dimos". I consider myself as one among those who supported your effort from the very first moment, contributed in increasing the visibility of this KS and informing the community for its existence/updates. In fact, more than half of my posts in DakkaDakka are in the current thread and fully half of them are posts with your facebook updates. I do not accept to be blamed that I am "raging furiously" against the project or your team or being a "freeloader". At least the Prodos team should be better informed about the people that truly support their project and don't just scream in the forums "OMFG! These minis is so kool. Thanks Prodos"!
Isoulle wrote: Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.
I share the same opinion with you, though I cannot pinpoint exactly the "off-points" on the models. Shoulderpads and heads I would say, but it might be also the fact that they look less beefy and tech-rich compared to their concepts.
P.S.:
-DE- wrote: A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.
I am not explaining myself to the seller. I am just explaining why my pledge has gone from 125quid (with the potential to drop in another 100 at the beginning of April that I am getting paid) down to 1. And I am also explaining what kind of things might alienate a staunch supporter and make him look away. I still believe in the skills of the Prodos team, but my late treatment forces me to rethink whether they can distinguish their loyal supporters.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: @prodos - even if praetor24 would have asked for some free swag I'd say you went over the line. And if you check praetor24's post log you will se the freeloder-accusation was unjust. Sure it's up to you how you treat your investors, but this is my opinion.
Thank you mate. I am glad that someone besides myself vouches for my stance on this. I appreciate it!
Isoulle wrote: Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.
Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.
On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.
Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak
Isoulle wrote: Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.
Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.
On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.
Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak
Glad to hear!
Curious about the brotherhood character as well. Any plans to redesign her to make her less T&A and more realistic or is that the final?
Isoulle wrote: Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.
Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.
On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.
Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak
Glad to hear!
Curious about the brotherhood character as well. Any plans to redesign her to make her less T&A and more realistic or is that the final?
She was already "adjusted", we should be able to post some pics later ;]
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Can everyone take a breather, please? I know this is the internet, but gee-whiz, take it down a notch.
Sound advice there, actually!
Stay on topic, and polite - please!
I was never into Warzone 'back in the day', but this one's got me very interested now.
I was backing Thon, but the lack of... much...going on there has caused me to Scipio/Azazelx my pledge there, and now I'm seriously contemplating backing this one.
Biggest issue is just not knowing much about... anything!
Reecius wrote: I am very excited for this! I LOVED this game back in the 90's, the mechanics were so fun, quick and intuitive. I hope the game mechanics remain largely the same. The models look great.
Too bad no Capitol in the first release, they were my favorite faction! I am sure they'll get to it though, if the game is popular.
They are going to do a capitol stater set once they hit the 80K stretch goal. Still still 30 plus days to go, I got a feeling they will be sooner rather then latter.
Their is even a preview of sorts for what will be in the capitol stater box.
Ah cool, thanks! I will have to look into that.
Man, I so hope the infantry still have Football Helmets and Baseball Caps! Haha, that was so over-the-top Amurica awesome! And the USA Belt Buckles on each guy, too. Haha, as a kid I cracked up at that (and still do as an adult). I hope that tongue-in-cheek but still tough looking aesthetic is still in place. I really loved that.
I seem to remember that it was suggested that when the troops went plastic we'd be getting more-figs-per-box. Was this incorrect, or is the "more" the addition of options like HW's heads, pads, etc?
Right now for about $30 USD (19 GBP pledge level), You get 10 plastic figs, which doesnt' seem like any better deal than warstore pricing. You do get a t-shirt and a pdf rules (which are available for a buck anyway), but if you aren't interested in a t-shirt, then I'm not sure where the value is.
Troop add-ons are 11.40 GBP for 5, which is $35 USD for 10 figs and you're in GW-price land. Obviously the deal gets better at the 30GBP level, but It's starting to look like this is going to be a game at GW levels of pricing.
Some of the pricing may seem that way, but the scale of the game does make a difference. You do need less miniatures to play Warzone.
Games of Warzone will probably average around 20-30 models max including vehicles, in 40k most armies require at least twice that just in infantry models alone.
Also if you look at some of the bigger models and Character models that will be cast in resin are much cheaper that GW models of the same status/stature.
Also if you look at some of the bigger models and Character models that will be cast in resin are much cheaper that GW models of the same status/stature.
I pay $55 CAD for a plastic dred, well the Resin Bauhaus vulcan is 13.30 GBP (Witch ATM is $20-ish CAD)
Even after the price bumps up after this kick starter, that will still be MUCH cheaper then a model of similar size from GW.
Well the infantry are abit pricier, looking at the larger modles you can tell they are trying to give us fair prices on this stuff.
I love 'em! Not goofy looking like the originals, but still evoke the old imagery. I think the sleeker body helped (along with beefing the limbs up). Looks like I'll be grabbing one of these as well.
Not a fan of the head. The rest of the model is pretty solid but the saw edge of the mask on head is pretty horrible. They'd be better off smoothing it out.
I'm willing to be that that's a rather large and complex model, it's certainly very detailed but yes it is rather expensive. On the plus side though (and this is a big plus) Prodos have again managed modernise the old design really well.
What's wrong with the price? It is nearly twice the height of a dreadnought. Considering the size, the KS price is a steal to me. And even afterwards at the £39 price tag, it compares favourably to the larger Warmachine units. This sucker is going to be big, but the price doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a unit of its size when you compare it to other stuff in the skirmish game market.
Hulksmash wrote: Not a fan of the head. The rest of the model is pretty solid but the saw edge of the mask on head is pretty horrible. They'd be better off smoothing it out.
@Lockart
Still wanna compare pricing with GW?
That model is going to be larger then a dread. They are quoteing at 5" tall and made of resin. This is taller then a contemptor if I am correct.
Compared to a Forgeworld Contempor that is 32 GBP and you then pay another 8GBP per arm. so 48 GBP in total.
Ronin_eX wrote: What's wrong with the price? It is nearly twice the height of a dreadnought. Considering the size, the KS price is a steal to me. And even afterwards at the £39 price tag, it compares favourably to the larger Warmachine units. This sucker is going to be big, but the price doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a unit of its size when you compare it to other stuff in the skirmish game market.
Very true, I'm just the sort of person who winces when I spend that much on a single model no matter how big/good it is (limited hobby budget). For a model of that size in resin £39 RRP is in fact pretty good value. Then again I really shouldn't complain too much as I have put an extra £52.25 onto my pledge for a Grizzly.
Or compare it to a Wraithlord or Dreadknight which is of similar size instead of picking something that isn't meant to be part of the primary range of the company you originally compared it to. This is part of the primary range of the company not a product of a sub company.
You could also compare it to the likely price of $45 for the 4.5" Leviathans coming out tooled in plastic by Dreamforge.
Oh, and 5" isn't nearly twice as tall. Dreads are generally between 3.5" and 4" tall and almost as wide. This is taller but lighter in appearance and width.
Don't get me wrong, it's an decent model. The price point is just at one that most people complain about when it's GW. And no, it's not comparable to what's non-GW out on the market. Privateer press non-character jacks are generally between $30-$45. Which makes them signiicantly cheaper than this model.
Hulksmash wrote: Or compare it to a Wraithlord or Dreadknight which is of similar size instead of picking something that isn't meant to be part of the primary range of the company you originally compared it to. This is part of the primary range of the company not a product of a sub company.
Resin kit Vs. Resin kit. Seems a fair comparison.
But if you would rather a plastic kit.
I pay $65.50 CAD for a greyknight dreadknight.
at 28.5 GBP I pay $43.69 CAD for this new kit.
The wraithlord comes closer to this price point, at $46.25 CAD. But agien that's a plastic kit compared to a resin kit.
As dreamforge ruined everything else for us? It was the first comparison my mind went for.
And since I have a slew of extra arms coming with them... I can outfit them like this one used to... even the "gigadeath chainripper."
Seriously, I suggest we look at the old metal model, accept that Prodos has done a good job of actualising it (getting rid of the "chiki-fee") and they will tweek it a bit if enough constructive feedback is given. Not whining. Specific, constructive feedback.
Ronin_eX wrote: What's wrong with the price? It is nearly twice the height of a dreadnought. Considering the size, the KS price is a steal to me. And even afterwards at the £39 price tag, it compares favourably to the larger Warmachine units. This sucker is going to be big, but the price doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a unit of its size when you compare it to other stuff in the skirmish game market.
Very true, I'm just the sort of person who winces when I spend that much on a single model no matter how big/good it is (limited hobby budget). For a model of that size in resin £39 RRP is in fact pretty good value. Then again I really shouldn't complain too much as I have put an extra £52.25 onto my pledge for a Grizzly.
Oh, I hear ya man. I am now staring at this and a Grizzly for my pledge. And I still have other stuff I want to pick on top of that. I am going to have to pull out all the stops with my wife at this point...
Mathieu Raymond wrote: As dreamforge ruined everything else for us? It was the first comparison my mind went for.
And since I have a slew of extra arms coming with them... I can outfit them like this one used to... even the "gigadeath chainripper."
Seriously, I suggest we look at the old metal model, accept that Prodos has done a good job of actualising it (getting rid of the "chiki-fee") and they will tweek it a bit if enough constructive feedback is given. Not whining. Specific, constructive feedback.
It actually looks kinda cool. It's just the "face" is really silly looking. Keep the shape, but get rid of the shark face and it would look perfect.
While I don't care at all since cybertronic is my least favorite of the factions, I think the face is from some of the black and white art in the rpgs if I remember right. They had more of a shark look to them, maybe even the jagged edge. This is assuming my memory is right after 12 years, I don't have the cybertronic rpg any more. I think it looks nice but I have never been into robots and mechs much myself so they can keep it as is or change it up and I wouldn't care
Ronin_eX wrote: What's wrong with the price? It is nearly twice the height of a dreadnought. Considering the size, the KS price is a steal to me. And even afterwards at the £39 price tag, it compares favourably to the larger Warmachine units. This sucker is going to be big, but the price doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a unit of its size when you compare it to other stuff in the skirmish game market.
Very true, I'm just the sort of person who winces when I spend that much on a single model no matter how big/good it is (limited hobby budget). For a model of that size in resin £39 RRP is in fact pretty good value. Then again I really shouldn't complain too much as I have put an extra £52.25 onto my pledge for a Grizzly.
Oh, I hear ya man. I am now staring at this and a Grizzly for my pledge. And I still have other stuff I want to pick on top of that. I am going to have to pull out all the stops with my wife at this point...
I'm just glad I'm only in for two factions!
I'm just lucky that Cybertronic are off my shopping list as a friend is going in for them. I bet that within a few days Dark Legion and Brotherhood will have something big to tempt me though.
madzerker wrote: While I don't care at all since cybertronic is my least favorite of the factions, I think the face is from some of the black and white art in the rpgs if I remember right. They had more of a shark look to them, maybe even the jagged edge. This is assuming my memory is right after 12 years, I don't have the cybertronic rpg any more. I think it looks nice but I have never been into robots and mechs much myself so they can keep it as is or change it up and I wouldn't care
Even if the orginal art at it with a shark face, it would be nice for them to update the look and move away from it. Like I said you could still keep the shape.
I really like the new Eradicator, it looks both sinister, a bit silly and a little cute (in a certain light ) but all in a good way! Sure I'm not surprised people don't like the face but as an old fanboy it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling . Maybe the thighs should be a little bit rounded though, to match all the other slightly rounded surfaces?
Hulksmash wrote: Or compare it to a Wraithlord or Dreadknight which is of similar size instead of picking something that isn't meant to be part of the primary range of the company you originally compared it to. This is part of the primary range of the company not a product of a sub company.
Resin kit Vs. Resin kit. Seems a fair comparison.
But if you would rather a plastic kit. I pay $65.50 CAD for a greyknight dreadknight.
at 28.5 GBP I pay $43.69 CAD for this new kit.
The wraithlord comes closer to this price point, at $46.25 CAD. But agien that's a plastic kit compared to a resin kit.
I think the point still stands.
Now your changing the game again and applying the discount and not the retail price. Retail price is similar. Wanna compare kickstarter? I got Dreamforges 4.5" Leviathan that's going to be insanely detailed (per the product already received) with two swappable arms for $30. I'm pointing out similar product for a primary game. Material shouldn't enter into it but since you're deciding it should then resin should be cheaper for a company that isn't tooling plastic machines to sell 10's of thousands. That's one of the reasons people are so mad at GW's finecast (by far not the only reason).
Simple fact is that this models pricing is actually higher than similar product for skirmish games. But, unlike other items, at least this one is discounted enough from it's high price to offer a value to people on the kickstarter greater than those waiting for general retail which I applaud.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: I really like the new Eradicator, it looks both sinister, a bit silly and a little cute (in a certain light ) but all in a good way! Sure I'm not surprised people don't like the face but as an old fanboy it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling . Maybe the thighs should be a little bit rounded though, to match all the other slightly rounded surfaces?
the face cone is the only rounded surface realy, maby make the cone more angled like the shoulder pads and legs? (Regardless of if it keeps the face or not.)
Prodos wrote: it was less than a week ago we changed the Hussars with that in mind only to upset some to a significant amount e.g Pyscotic storm). We have 10 or so different designs going now, all of which get exceedingly positive feedback and rage like fury in equal amounts.
I would guess Pyscotic Storm is a typo and this refers to me.
I would call it vastly disappointed, but I guess "upset" could also fit, yes, it was a great shift from what I liked to what I viewed as an bad anachronism and a major design shift towards the project.
I don't understand the comment about 10 different designs going on now, is it about the hussars, hasn't this settled to one final design, or you mean that after 10 designs you settled on the final and none was really well accepted? If it is the later I personally am opposed to how radical the design shift was and the direction it implies for the project as a whole, yes its difficult to please everybody, but changing the direction mid project is a warning sign, just place angelica next to the new hussars, which you have not done by the way, except in the tiny picture at the bottom and they seem to be from different factions, so radical was the design shift.
The recent micro pledge level was an understandable reaction, if we reach 75k we will give you the right to buy more stuff? you could have easily just posted here are some extra stuff to help us reach reach that capitol level and not receive much flack about it, you failed to detail what the conversion to plastic will bring to the customer, what extras if any and what parts, likewise the conversion kits look like a poor deal especially if it a 5K stretch goal.
Eradicator deathdroid, not a fan really, to be entirely fair its a great modernization of the design and frankly I am not sure if it could be any better while retaining its ties to the past.
Glad to hear Laura is getting a redesign, that might improve her much, any news on renders of the other units that exist only as artworks?
Oh, and 5" isn't nearly twice as tall. Dreads are generally between 3.5" and 4" tall and almost as wide. This is taller but lighter in appearance and width.
Just throwing the information out there.
Rly, 3.5" to 4", I need to phone FW as they sent me some mini version is not even close to 2.5"..
5" ,from base to head is Trygon.
I'm concerned about the redesign of laura. I think the render is very cool and if you are able to cover her ass with an alternativ cloak I don't see the point in all the hate. But whatever, I don't want to get you guys upset again. In my opinion this would be a great model.
I really like the redesign of the deathegg. It's much the same as i was expecting it to look like. Would be great if the machinegun would be a bit bulkier, though. But prodos said this is wip and will see changes till the final look. The fin is a nice add
rhavien wrote: I'm concerned about the redesign of laura. I think the render is very cool and if you are able to cover her ass with an alternativ cloak I don't see the point in all the hate. But whatever, I don't want to get you guys upset again. In my opinion this would be a great model.
I really like the redesign of the deathegg. It's much the same as i was expecting it to look like. Would be great if the machinegun would be a bit bulkier, though. But prodos said this is wip and will see changes till the final look. The fin is a nice add
The foot/baseball gear went out the window already in 2nd edition. They were replaced with RCMP hats. Oh well, it was SOME kind of improvement at least.
Oh, and 5" isn't nearly twice as tall. Dreads are generally between 3.5" and 4" tall and almost as wide. This is taller but lighter in appearance and width.
Just throwing the information out there.
Rly, 3.5" to 4", I need to phone FW as they sent me some mini version is not even close to 2.5"..
5" ,from base to head is Trygon.
Spoiler:
I just want to say thanks for that pic. I don't actully own a SM dreadnaught anymore, but was prety sure it wasn't as tall as he was saying. Good to know my memory wasn't failing me.
Personaly after haveing to put up with the high canadian prices for GW games here in canada, I'm prety exciteing for anything that won't burn nearly as bad a whole in my wallet.
So I'm pretty exciteing for this game. (Never enjoyed Warmahord witch is the only other game I'm seen that's widely played ATM. So realy hope this catches on.)
I don't like the new Mishima samurai I'm out! Come on guys so far Prodos has been responsive to constructive comments, I know that great designs for some people are a disaster for others but to say that you are out after the 1st render of a figure seems unreasonable to me.
On the new Deathegg, I like the new legs, much more balanced than in the original figure but I'm not sure about the shark face. I hope it gets a chaingun optional weapon.
LOL! It's back!
Never could bring myself to assemble the one I had because of the silly feet...
This WIP is a huge improvement, but I think it does need some work:
Chain blade at least 50%, if not 100% longer
Arm gun needs to be scaled up quite a bit; 50%?
Feet could be larger as well
Overall height
5" is really huge on the table top. At 6" you are looking at Knight Titans in 40K.
Going from old artwork, they look to be about 3x human height, so maybe 3.5" tall?
Anyone have an assembled model that they can measure for height?
As god.ra says, GW dreads are less than 2.5" tall so these would be HUGE at 5" tall. Would suggest bringing them back down to 3 - 3.5". Might have a significant effect on the cost as well...
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Can everyone take a breather, please? I know this is the internet, but gee-whiz, take it down a notch.
Sound advice there, actually!
Stay on topic, and polite - please!
I was never into Warzone 'back in the day', but this one's got me very interested now.
I was backing Thon, but the lack of... much...going on there has caused me to Scipio/Azazelx my pledge there, and now I'm seriously contemplating backing this one.
Biggest issue is just not knowing much about... anything!
But... the models sure do look nice!
All I can add is I played 1st ed Warsone along with 2nd 40k. Warzone was solid. I still feel scorned by the demise. The rebirth has me excited. I've been following this from go. I hope it lives up.
I still have my first Ed books in my bookcase, but really all you need are 5 seconds on Google to see the old version of the sharkface, and this one looks, if not perfect, better. imagine the paint job you can put up on that sucker!
The gigadeath chainripper wasn't able to reach the ground either, as well as being connected to the body waaaaaayyy too far back. But with such a cool name... what's not to love?
honestly, just the improvements of tech the last 10 years are going to make most models look much better. I believe the tank will look pretty close to the picture on KS though.
The things I'm worried about are the purple sharks. It is VERY typical on speeder type models to have drivers/riders to be the size of an adolescent compared to everything else. I guess you got horse jockeys that are really small, but the scale is bad much too often with speeders and I really hope that isn't the case.
Earth Dragon wrote: honestly, just the improvements of tech the last 10 years are going to make most models look much better. I believe the tank will look pretty close to the picture on KS though.
The things I'm worried about are the purple sharks. It is VERY typical on speeder type models to have drivers/riders to be the size of an adolescent compared to everything else. I guess you got horse jockeys that are really small, but the scale is bad much too often with speeders and I really hope that isn't the case.
Considering they are doing everything in CAD, their is no reason the riders should be smaller, unless they scale them to be smaller on purpose.
For the Erradicator, I think all that needs to be done to the "shark teeth" is to change the angles to match the "EKG heart beat" in the background of the Cybertronic C.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: I really like the new Eradicator, it looks both sinister, a bit silly and a little cute (in a certain light ) but all in a good way! Sure I'm not surprised people don't like the face but as an old fanboy it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling . Maybe the thighs should be a little bit rounded though, to match all the other slightly rounded surfaces?
the face cone is the only rounded surface realy, maby make the cone more angled like the shoulder pads and legs? (Regardless of if it keeps the face or not.)
Well you have the arms, weapons and so on, but most big square surfaces could be more rounded imo with the same profile as he "head-fin". So not rounded as in make them completely round or oval but just not that square so to speak ;-)
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rhavien wrote: I'm concerned about the redesign of laura. I think the render is very cool and if you are able to cover her ass with an alternativ cloak I don't see the point in all the hate. But whatever, I don't want to get you guys upset again. In my opinion this would be a great model.
I don't know if hate is the right word but for me it's not so much about the ass as having lost the "knight in space"-feel and gone for some mangaish take (not that I have an issue with manga in general) which just isn't near as cool as the original art imo (which they have been quite fathful to concerning the over all design). And apart from that her pose and proportions are a bit off.
In other words, more of this would be so much better...
Looks pretty good! The jaw and the square "teeth/mouth"-section om the mask made me think it was some cybertronic-dude for a moment though. It would look more like a VR if the jaw was removed and the "teeth" gets a more rounded profile. But good work never the less!
The jaw will be easy to remove so that's not an issue for me. As long as the cloaks and shoulder pads are separate, you've got yourself a sale or three.
His Master's Voice wrote: The jaw will be easy to remove so that's not an issue for me. As long as the cloaks and shoulder pads are separate, you've got yourself a sale or three.
Now that shows you are really trying to please us the customer. I am so happy there will be so many options and people from all camps will have it the way they like
His Master's Voice wrote: The jaw will be easy to remove so that's not an issue for me. As long as the cloaks and shoulder pads are separate, you've got yourself a sale or three.
Ok.......I might just be hooked by those rangers. Needs a little work with helmet scaling and I'd like the shoulder pads to be more rounded, but these look really good.
Yes... for me this is a totally hit on the mark. Hole in one, Prodos! There was a lot of fumbling around for the Hussars, but it pays off on subsequent miniatures from a range.
His Master's Voice wrote: The jaw will be easy to remove so that's not an issue for me. As long as the cloaks and shoulder pads are separate, you've got yourself a sale or three.
yeap, 2x cloaks and shoulder pads are separate
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Oh whao. Both cloth and fur cloaks? I love it. Great idea!
Personaly I'm going to use the cloth on these guys because I feel it will look better, but got a feeling thows fur clocks could easily find them selfs in alot of other projects/armies.
I suddenly found my self pretty pumped for these guys. Up untill now I thought I was going to pass on them. I just upgraded from Radiz to Dark legion so I can nab some of these guys.
c0un7_z3r0 wrote: Looks pretty good! The jaw and the square "teeth/mouth"-section om the mask made me think it was some cybertronic-dude for a moment though. It would look more like a VR if the jaw was removed and the "teeth" gets a more rounded profile. But good work never the less!
I have to agree with this. The mask at 1st made me think these were Cybertronic guys for a moment. Stylizing the mask like c0un7 suggested would make them look abit more distinctive.
Well I like infinity, One of the biggest pet peeve about it was how alot of the factions tended to step on each other's toes when it came to aesthetics. At times sometimes the modles could be abit "same-y" between factions.
(Hope that made sense)
How dare you say anything like that about Infinity!
A friend and I, we realized that the holsters on three different armies are *exactly* the same. Although the basic firearms are sufficiently different otherwise.
I'm thinking I'll just convert one of my starters into Étoiles and Rangers and be done with it.
1) Love the reworked Eradicator (and my two Killer Easter Eggs are some of the favorite models in my collection), and I like that fact that you stayed true to the original as well. Please don't give it bumps.
2) The new Venusian Rangers look great, can't wait to see more.
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. I believe the new design looks great and given the guns are going to be more proportional and that the poses gets more realistic plus some final touches I'd say they are on to a winning concept! Great stuff prodos!
) found in the old 
And resin is so passe.
