Hadn't seen these listed, apologies if they have been.
Warhammer 40k Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus (hardcover) retails for $75
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Magnus the Red Daemon Primarch of Tzeentch retails for $130
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Ahriman Arch-Sorcerer of Tzeentch retails for $40
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Tzaangors retails for $45
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Scarab Occult Terminators retails for $60
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Rubric Marines retails for $50
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Exalted Sorcerers retails for $60
Warhammer 40k Thousand Sons Dice (LIMITED) retails for $20
If you actually think for a second you'll realise theres LOADS of HUMANS in both universes too, ITS INSANE!
Beastmen appear in both is a problem? surely you jest
One formation even doubles the amount of horrors spawned from their colorful kin
OH THE HORROR! THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!!!
2000pt list
200 Pink Horrors = 2600 Wounds (200 Pink Horrors, 800 Blue Horrors and 1600 Brimstone Horrors (If Brimstone are 2w each which I don't know if confirmed)).
Well according to the leak pink horrors are 90pts so it is 2650 wounds for 20 pink horrors.
I wonder if the smaller horrors will have brotherhood of psyker too: thats it, kill my pink horrors, you're only giving me more warp charge MWAHAHAHAHA!
Exalted Locus of Creation: Each time a Pink Horror in the bearer of the Loci’s unit dies, it creates 4 Blue Horrors instead of two. Blue Horrors subsequently split into two Brimstone Horrors….oh sweet baby Emperor of mankind, Pooor quuueeee?!?!
Also,Warhammer 40K Chaos Daemons Datacards are apparently a thing, and I hadn't those were going to exist, expecially after the rumors that the Genestealer Cult datacards were the final datacards to be made.
adamsouza wrote: Also,Warhammer 40K Chaos Daemons Datacards are apparently a thing, and I hadn't those were going to exist, expecially after the rumors that the Genestealer Cult datacards were the final datacards to be made.
Those are probably just the Daemons cards that were released alongside Curse of the Wulfen.
LightKing wrote: I heard a possibility that Black Library might retcon Sanguinius death....?
How?
The more pertinent question is "where" I feel.
If the answer is any more credible than "while I was asleep" I'll be surprised.
I'm not saying he's likely to be right or anything, but given what they've done with Vulkan, it's hardly impossible they'll also go batgak mental with Sanguinius.
Still, at this rate I suppose there will be one singular thing about the Iron Hands that no other Legion gets - Ferrus will be the only goddamn Primarch who actually is and stays dead.
I'm not saying he's likely to be right or anything, but given what they've done with Vulkan, it's hardly impossible they'll also go batgak mental with Sanguinius.
Sanquinius is already still around and has been for 2 editions. Read the Blood Angel codex.
Would be cool if they did a gun and chain sword sprue like that for porting regular beast men into 40k in all honesty. Other wise really 8nteresting how the tzzangors are 40k/aos. I would love to get the 40k bits from that kit from aos players.
The Tzaangors thing is interesting indeed. AoS zombies (one day, pleaaase) with a sprue for plague zombies?
Bummer that you can't really see all 7 heads from the sorcerors sprue, I *really* need that vulture head, but I feel that it'll be hard to get as a bit and getting the whole box, I dunno. Too much Tzeentch stuff takung forever to get rid of for Word Bearers psykers.
Then I look at Magnus. Oof, that's a pricy points cost. Oh hey, 2+ warp charges, no perils....tasty...ok, I can accept this....that sounds pretty damn good for a psyker.
Then I see that his 15 powers are the 2 Tzeentch Disciplines plus his own unique power.
I note that 1KSons squads get 1 heavy weapon per 10 Marines. Good to know that the real reason Magnus is attacking Fenris is to try and make the Wolves finally stick to the Codex Astartes, like all good Legions - traitor and loyalist alike - for some reason still stick to.
I mean really GW: Make it 1-in-9!
DarknessEternal wrote: Sanquinius is already still around and has been for 2 editions. Read the Blood Angel codex.
Then I look at Magnus. Oof, that's a pricy points cost. Oh hey, 2+ warp charges, no perils....tasty...ok, I can accept this....that sounds pretty damn good for a psyker.
Then I see that his 15 powers are the 2 Tzeentch Disciplines plus his own unique power.
Rip. Nevermind then.
Eh, Change isn't horrible, I'd certainly rate it higher than Pyromancy or Telekinesis.
It's just a shame it's almost entirely Witchfires and Beams (except for that one Conjuration).
Hopefully the updated Tzeentch Discipline has more Blessings or Maledictions to balance it out (and have them not be terrible), otherwise we're going to have a model who psychic powers range from several low strength horde killers to Str D shots with basically nothing in between to bridge that gap and practically nothing to give him utility.
Tzeentch- summary since I can't copy paste - but that armor punching power we need.
primaris witchfire 24 SD6+1 blast inferno - can cause other hits only once.
Boon of muatation (1) blessing - chance for Chaos Boon table
Doombolt (1) S8 AP 1 vehicle killer
Siphon Magic (1) - take enemy's warp charges
Breath of Chaos (2) chance to glance
Baleful Devolution (2) - AP 2 killer, possible surprise for the corpse
Treason of Tzeentch (3) - malediction enemy fights itself.
Also i dunno if it is correct to asume this, but it says that he Knows all of Tzeentch and Change powers, he might still be able to generate powers in other disciplines?
We'll need a confirmation about this, but its a possibility.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I note that 1KSons squads get 1 heavy weapon per 10 Marines. Good to know that the real reason Magnus is attacking Fenris is to try and make the Wolves finally stick to the Codex Astartes, like all good Legions - traitor and loyalist alike - for some reason still stick to.
I mean really GW: Make it 1-in-9!
DarknessEternal wrote: Sanquinius is already still around and has been for 2 editions. Read the Blood Angel codex.
No. That's Space Jesus, and not Sanguinius.
Bjørn threatened rebellion if they had to stick to the Codex. So this attack means we get CHAOS WOLVES? Get Khârn on the astropath channel, he will want to get in on that Wulfen special rules stuff ASAP
PS: may I add how stupid the Sanguinor is? Let the mysterious saviour stuff be the LotD shtick, thank you very much, current hack writers.
PPS: Now I want a shoulder-mounted Heavy Bolter like the LotD squad had. Damn. I have Mordheim Amazonians to trade!
Models look nice, was planning on getting a couple of boxes, prices are about 40% or so too high for me, may get a box of marines to use with the current list but thats about it unless we see a "start collecting" box in the near future. (for what Magnus costs I can nearly get another Prospero box for example)
Rules I'm not too fussed one way or the other given how infrequently I play the game, but they do sound good for Apoc scale games where you have the points to run with it, and one assumes an armoured security van to carry the models.
Will see how it pans out, in the mean time will continue with Prosero and some metallic red/gold CSM who have a somewhat Thousand Sons theme to them
Curious, with the value of the Pound, why don't US buyers just order from the UK store? It's just under $100 USD for Magnus there but predicted to be $130 in the US store?
nintura wrote: Curious, with the value of the Pound, why don't US buyers just order from the UK store? It's just under $100 USD for Magnus there but predicted to be $130 in the US store?
nintura wrote: Curious, with the value of the Pound, why don't US buyers just order from the UK store? It's just under $100 USD for Magnus there but predicted to be $130 in the US store?
The Loci of Creation is probably one of the worst rules they've put out in a long time. A big problem in 40k is the time it takes to play a game, and now you can create 240 additional models for no damn reason? I gotta wonder if GW even played that in game.
Not too long ago they switched to a different inventory management methodology, where by they keep less product on hand to reduce warehousing costs and simply run the production line more frequently. The consequence is that volume on hand is more arbitrary and based on warehouse space for each product as opposed to producing excess so as to not run out but being left with product that might never sell. This is a contributing factor to why GW is willing to take a chance and release so many more kits and armies. In the past they'd release an army and if it didn't sell well they'd simply have to sit on the inventory until it was all gone, which would make them more reluctant to revisit that army. Dark Eldar for example, as I heard it, GW was still selling models from the first production run up until their first revamp. Similarly things like Catachans and Berzerkers which are so antiquated. That is a lot of money being tied up and inciting warehousing costs. With smaller production volumes a first run dries up in 6 months and if it doesn't it's such a relatively small number compared to what they would have had left before.
Not too long ago they switched to a different inventory management methodology, where by they keep less product on hand to reduce warehousing costs and simply run the production line more frequently. The consequence is that volume on hand is more arbitrary and based on warehouse space for each product as opposed to producing excess so as to not run out but being left with product that might never sell. This is a contributing factor to why GW is willing to take a chance and release so many more kits and armies. In the past they'd release an army and if it didn't sell well they'd simply have to sit on the inventory until it was all gone, which would make them more reluctant to revisit that army. Dark Eldar for example, as I heard it, GW was still selling models from the first production run up until their first revamp. Similarly things like Catachans and Berzerkers which are so antiquated. That is a lot of money being tied up and inciting warehousing costs. With smaller production volumes a first run dries up in 6 months and if it doesn't it's such a relatively small number compared to what they would have had left before.
Big difference is people actually WANT dice where as people didn't want terrible models like those mentioned. GW should be meeting demand better with these new products considering you're referencing events from 1998.
Yeah, GW should be taking a more tailored approach. Certain products do eventually come back. I'm pretty sure even dice sets have been rereleased after having sold out.
Not too long ago they switched to a different inventory management methodology, where by they keep less product on hand to reduce warehousing costs and simply run the production line more frequently. The consequence is that volume on hand is more arbitrary and based on warehouse space for each product as opposed to producing excess so as to not run out but being left with product that might never sell. This is a contributing factor to why GW is willing to take a chance and release so many more kits and armies. In the past they'd release an army and if it didn't sell well they'd simply have to sit on the inventory until it was all gone, which would make them more reluctant to revisit that army. Dark Eldar for example, as I heard it, GW was still selling models from the first production run up until their first revamp. Similarly things like Catachans and Berzerkers which are so antiquated. That is a lot of money being tied up and inciting warehousing costs. With smaller production volumes a first run dries up in 6 months and if it doesn't it's such a relatively small number compared to what they would have had left before.
Big difference is people actually WANT dice where as people didn't want terrible models like those mentioned. GW should be meeting demand better with these new products considering you're referencing events from 1998.
Well, with them being able to make money from the dice there's a good chance they'll see it and either re-release them in the future (more made for the Traitor Legions release), the new CSM edition and pump out more dice initially for the other Traitor Legions.
Then again, even if this is 'new' GW they work in weird, often self-hurting ways so who knows.
Not too long ago they switched to a different inventory management methodology, where by they keep less product on hand to reduce warehousing costs and simply run the production line more frequently. The consequence is that volume on hand is more arbitrary and based on warehouse space for each product as opposed to producing excess so as to not run out but being left with product that might never sell. This is a contributing factor to why GW is willing to take a chance and release so many more kits and armies. In the past they'd release an army and if it didn't sell well they'd simply have to sit on the inventory until it was all gone, which would make them more reluctant to revisit that army. Dark Eldar for example, as I heard it, GW was still selling models from the first production run up until their first revamp. Similarly things like Catachans and Berzerkers which are so antiquated. That is a lot of money being tied up and inciting warehousing costs. With smaller production volumes a first run dries up in 6 months and if it doesn't it's such a relatively small number compared to what they would have had left before.
Big difference is people actually WANT dice where as people didn't want terrible models like those mentioned. GW should be meeting demand better with these new products considering you're referencing events from 1998.
Well, with them being able to make money from the dice there's a good chance they'll see it and either re-release them in the future (more made for the Traitor Legions release), the new CSM edition and pump out more dice initially for the other Traitor Legions.
Then again, even if this is 'new' GW they work in weird, often self-hurting ways so who knows.
They should just extend the pre-order period and make the items on demand if they can seriously ramp up production like you mentioned. Or specifically make a section of their website that players know the items they buy from that section will take 1 month for delivery.
Tzeentch- summary since I can't copy paste - but that armor punching power we need.
primaris witchfire 24 SD6+1 blast inferno - can cause other hits only once.
Boon of muatation (1) blessing - chance for Chaos Boon table
Doombolt (1) S8 AP 1 vehicle killer
Siphon Magic (1) - take enemy's warp charges
Breath of Chaos (2) chance to glance
Baleful Devolution (2) - AP 2 killer, possible surprise for the corpse
Treason of Tzeentch (3) - malediction enemy fights itself.
Also i dunno if it is correct to asume this, but it says that he Knows all of Tzeentch and Change powers, he might still be able to generate powers in other disciplines?
We'll need a confirmation about this, but its a possibility.
That's rather wrong.
First, doombolt is a deam-its not a tank killer, its a TeQ killer. multiple hits is easy to score.
Siphon triggers on FRIENDLY castings. so in a psyker army like 1ksons-you can cascade warp charge generation like a boss with this. heck, your next dude casting this himself can trigger the first getting his warp change back!
Breath of chaos is an existing power that is MUCH more than "change to glace", its an ap2 poisoned 4+ template with the added bonus of glancing on a 4+ if you also nab a vehicle.
Devolution is a D6 S6Ap2 focused witchfire with ID on 6s, and IDs generates spawns for you.
And treason is an upgraded version of the BL cabal formation's power. the unit you cast it on shoots for you in your shooting phase, then takes a pinning test.
So, lots of AP2 psyker powers to throw around for the 1ksons.
And some cool utility powers.
I love it! I really do! BUT are they NOT going to do a Forgeworld version pre-ascension?
That would be tragic!
Also, this will pretty much pave the way for Angron and Fulgrim to get their Demon Prince versions too Insert evil laugh here!
Not too long ago they switched to a different inventory management methodology, where by they keep less product on hand to reduce warehousing costs and simply run the production line more frequently. The consequence is that volume on hand is more arbitrary and based on warehouse space for each product as opposed to producing excess so as to not run out but being left with product that might never sell. This is a contributing factor to why GW is willing to take a chance and release so many more kits and armies. In the past they'd release an army and if it didn't sell well they'd simply have to sit on the inventory until it was all gone, which would make them more reluctant to revisit that army. Dark Eldar for example, as I heard it, GW was still selling models from the first production run up until their first revamp. Similarly things like Catachans and Berzerkers which are so antiquated. That is a lot of money being tied up and inciting warehousing costs. With smaller production volumes a first run dries up in 6 months and if it doesn't it's such a relatively small number compared to what they would have had left before.
Big difference is people actually WANT dice where as people didn't want terrible models like those mentioned. GW should be meeting demand better with these new products considering you're referencing events from 1998.
Well, with them being able to make money from the dice there's a good chance they'll see it and either re-release them in the future (more made for the Traitor Legions release), the new CSM edition and pump out more dice initially for the other Traitor Legions.
Then again, even if this is 'new' GW they work in weird, often self-hurting ways so who knows.
They should just extend the pre-order period and make the items on demand if they can seriously ramp up production like you mentioned. Or specifically make a section of their website that players know the items they buy from that section will take 1 month for delivery.
GW doesn't produce dice in house as far as I can recall. The tools, paints, etc are all produced out of house and packaged in house.
eosgreen wrote: DAMN IT WHEN ARE THE CLOSE UPS ATGW SITE GOING UP
i wana see sprus and such
Just click the flag in the corner and change it to new zealand. They have been up for awhile. If you're waiting for North America, it'll be another couple hours.
eosgreen wrote: DAMN IT WHEN ARE THE CLOSE UPS ATGW SITE GOING UP
i wana see sprus and such
Just click the flag in the corner and change it to new zealand. They have been up for awhile. If you're waiting for North America, it'll be another couple hours.
YES tym!
omg those prices... tell me there is an exchange rate im not aware of
eosgreen wrote: DAMN IT WHEN ARE THE CLOSE UPS ATGW SITE GOING UP
i wana see sprus and such
Just click the flag in the corner and change it to new zealand. They have been up for awhile. If you're waiting for North America, it'll be another couple hours.
YES tym!
omg those prices... tell me there is an exchange rate im not aware of
New Zealand prices for Warhammer are generally almost double.
l2c wrote: I notice six (?) bolters without handles/hands on the Terminator sprue. Are you meant to cut the hands off the swords and dualwield bolters?
I'm guessing the bolters are in two parts, and those are just one side of each one - the other halves have the hand on them
anyone else think this is the best release in ages? i have no words for how amazing this is hobby wise to me and i'm just a fan of all things "good models"
eosgreen wrote: anyone else think this is the best release in ages? i have no words for how amazing this is hobby wise to me and i'm just a fan of all things "good models"
eosgreen wrote: anyone else think this is the best release in ages? i have no words for how amazing this is hobby wise to me and i'm just a fan of all things "good models"
The fact that they put in the effort for the Tzeentch Daemon list as well, means that I will be making some of first GW purchases in years now. I am very happy with this release. I'm going to have what I feel is not only a very good army, but very fluffy as well!
eosgreen wrote: anyone else think this is the best release in ages? i have no words for how amazing this is hobby wise to me and i'm just a fan of all things "good models"
Tzeentch- summary since I can't copy paste - but that armor punching power we need.
primaris witchfire 24 SD6+1 blast inferno - can cause other hits only once.
Boon of muatation (1) blessing - chance for Chaos Boon table
Doombolt (1) S8 AP 1 vehicle killer
Siphon Magic (1) - take enemy's warp charges
Breath of Chaos (2) chance to glance
Baleful Devolution (2) - AP 2 killer, possible surprise for the corpse
Treason of Tzeentch (3) - malediction enemy fights itself.
Also i dunno if it is correct to asume this, but it says that he Knows all of Tzeentch and Change powers, he might still be able to generate powers in other disciplines?
We'll need a confirmation about this, but its a possibility.
That's rather wrong.
First, doombolt is a deam-its not a tank killer, its a TeQ killer. multiple hits is easy to score.
Siphon triggers on FRIENDLY castings. so in a psyker army like 1ksons-you can cascade warp charge generation like a boss with this. heck, your next dude casting this himself can trigger the first getting his warp change back!
Breath of chaos is an existing power that is MUCH more than "change to glace", its an ap2 poisoned 4+ template with the added bonus of glancing on a 4+ if you also nab a vehicle.
Devolution is a D6 S6Ap2 focused witchfire with ID on 6s, and IDs generates spawns for you.
And treason is an upgraded version of the BL cabal formation's power. the unit you cast it on shoots for you in your shooting phase, then takes a pinning test.
So, lots of AP2 psyker powers to throw around for the 1ksons.
And some cool utility powers.
He's right about siphon. Sorry, it was rather late and the internet kept shouting. Wasn'st posting full stats since that's frowned upon.
@Erjak...funny you should say that. Check out the end of the fluff book
strider17 wrote: I love it! I really do! BUT are they NOT going to do a Forgeworld version pre-ascension?
That would be tragic!
Also, this will pretty much pave the way for Angron and Fulgrim to get their Demon Prince versions too Insert evil laugh here!
nintura wrote: Curious, with the value of the Pound, why don't US buyers just order from the UK store? It's just under $100 USD for Magnus there but predicted to be $130 in the US store?
GW doesn't let people buy overseas for reasons.
Every Aussie would still be buying from GWUK if we could.
Not sure how Siphon is supposed to work. I thought you had to finish casting for a unit before moving on to the next one? How is the unit that casts Siphon supposed to use the warp charges that get generated?
Also, I don't see any blessings in the Tzeentch discipline that target a unit. So you won't be able to take advantage of the +1 inv with your aspiring sorcerers.
Horrors on the other hand look absolutely ridiculous. Do they still get malefic? If so that could be really really obnoxious. And expensive. Gotta move those unsold Silver Tower boxes somehow I guess.
Not sure how Siphon is supposed to work. I thought you had to finish casting for a unit before moving on to the next one? How is the unit that casts Siphon supposed to use the warp charges that get generated?
Also, I don't see any blessings in the Tzeentch discipline that target a unit. So you won't be able to take advantage of the +1 inv with your aspiring sorcerers.
Horrors on the other hand look absolutely ridiculous. Do they still get malefic? If so that could be really really obnoxious. And expensive. Gotta move those unsold Silver Tower boxes somehow I guess.
Is this info available elsewhere? I'm getting bad gateway errors trying to access the site.
Not sure how Siphon is supposed to work. I thought you had to finish casting for a unit before moving on to the next one? How is the unit that casts Siphon supposed to use the warp charges that get generated?
Also, I don't see any blessings in the Tzeentch discipline that target a unit. So you won't be able to take advantage of the +1 inv with your aspiring sorcerers.
Horrors on the other hand look absolutely ridiculous. Do they still get malefic? If so that could be really really obnoxious. And expensive. Gotta move those unsold Silver Tower boxes somehow I guess.
The change discipline has a bunch of blessings and most of the sorcerors don't have to take tzeentch powers. Also, I don't think you have to go caster by caster, I'd have to check the brb but I don't think that's a thing.
i put 550€ into the release but well i wanted to expand on the army anyway since it literally was settling dust for years...
great thing about the +1 on the invulnerable save: activating force weapons is a blessing. so granting that improved save is really simple even without the right discipline. as every psyker knows it allready.
Souba wrote: i put 550€ into the release but well i wanted to expand on the army anyway since it literally was settling dust for years...
great thing about the +1 on the invulnerable save: activating force weapons is a blessing. so granting that improved save is really simple even without the right discipline. as every psyker knows it allready.
I had the GW website pulled up on my phone. I'm at work and I work in an emergency room. The preorders weren't up yet and I get called into a trauma to assist and by the time I get out (20 minutes tops!) the preorders were up and the dice sold out!!!!!
Not my day!
GW needs to start making more dice. They're selling out, make more!!!!
I had the GW website pulled up on my phone. I'm at work and I work in an emergency room. The preorders weren't up yet and I get called into a trauma to assist and by the time I get out (20 minutes tops!) the preorders were up and the dice sold out!!!!!
Yeah, bloody inconsiderate people, couldn't they be dying some other time so you could order some dice in peace!
(Sorry, I understand it is frustrating. Still a bit funny though.)
I had the GW website pulled up on my phone. I'm at work and I work in an emergency room. The preorders weren't up yet and I get called into a trauma to assist and by the time I get out (20 minutes tops!) the preorders were up and the dice sold out!!!!!
Yeah, bloody inconsiderate people, couldn't they be dying some other time so you could order some dice in peace!
(Sorry, I understand it is frustrating. Still a bit funny though.)
Ya know, after re-reading it, I can totally see myself coming off that way. LoL.
But yeah, people should really think about my dice buying needs before sustaining injury! (/joke)
Sucks about dice, I wonder if I will be able to snag them from a local retailer who generally gets at least 1-2 of each release. Weren't the new Battleforces supposed to be up for pre-order today for availability on the 3rd, or is their pre-order date the 3rd?
I like all the rules. I think the cost of Magnus is spot on. It's high enough that it's a risk given how high the rest of the army is. However, I am afraid that the Pink Horrors will be the next cheese. I might run a small unit just for S&Gs and the fun of putting more models on, but I wont be running large numbers. Dear Lord they'll be broken in Kill Team...
nintura wrote: I like all the rules. I think the cost of Magnus is spot on. It's high enough that it's a risk given how high the rest of the army is. However, I am afraid that the Pink Horrors will be the next cheese. I might run a small unit just for S&Gs and the fun of putting more models on, but I wont be running large numbers. Dear Lord they'll be broken in Kill Team...
Killteam specifically prohibits adding any new models to your roster via any source. I think it's called "You're on your own."
Thanks for that link. Finally some decent leaks lol.
Those artifacts are pretty cool. Now if only they stopped that madness of making warlord traits random
Astral grimoire in particular is sweet. Does it mean we can have jump terminators lol? Is it limited to tzeentch or could maelstrom of gore berzerkers potentially first turn charge with that?
Really pleased with the rules on using CSM detachments as Thousand Sons, as I was just about to resign myself to retiring my converted CSM termies made with the old metal TS heads. They're back in action, although they, like the many old hybrid metal/plastic TS rubricae I already have, clash with the new aesthetics somewhat.
The man, himself: Magnus the Red: The big cheese, the head honcho, the main event! This is what everyone has been so excited to see, and for good reason! The return of a Primarch to the current timeline of Warhammer 40,000! This is so cool, and something most of us never thought would happen, but here we are. Let’s dive into this beast.
He’s got an impressive stat-line! Also, against what many had speculated he’s not a Gargantuan Creature but a Flying Monstrous Creature. This to me is a good thing. He is more accessible to “normal” play. This may not jive with the mental image many have of him, but I’d rather see him on more tabletops than not, so this was the right call, IMO. He rocks WS and BS 7, Strength 8, Toughness 7, 7 Wounds and Initiative, 6 Attacks, Leadership 10 and a 4+ save. He also weighs in at 650pts, base, so not cheap. He’s got a host of special rules:
Adamantium Will
Daemon of Tzeentch
Deep Strike
Eternal Warrior
Fearless
Fleet
It Will Not Die
Psyker level 5
Veterans of the Long War
Unearthly Power: harnesses Warp Charge on a 2+
The Lord of Flux Warlord Trait
Omniscient Eye: Magnus has LoS to every model on the table when determining the targets of his psychic powers.
Knows the Gaze of Magnus ability and all of the Tzeentch and Change powers. This is his biggest weakness as the powers he has access to are more limited. Gaze of Magnus will be the go to in most cases, but summoning in more units is always awesome, and a second option for a D shot isn’t bad, either.
His wargear is similarly impressive: The Blade of Magnus is Strength user, AP 2, Force, Soul Blaze and Transmogrify (which can turn models into Chaos Spawn). The Crown of Crimson Kings gives Magnus a 4++ and lets him ignore Perils…wow!
So there he is and what a beast! With a blessing on him, he’s rocking a 3++, is highly mobile, can see everything on the table for mind bullets, and generates and harnesses Warp Charge like a boss. His lack of diversity in powers is a bit of a drawback but his purpose is pretty clear: he blasts things with magic laser beams and can also kick their butts in melee. I see him as a mobile gunship, flying around reliably blasting high value targets and hidden scoring units with psychic powers. His speed and ability to ignore LoS in the psychic phase really makes him a scary model. He’s highly durable and doesn’t really need a lot of support. If needs be can come down to the ground to tango with his powerful Blade of Magnus, he most certainly can. Is he worth 650pts? I think so. He’s very hard to hurt, he packs a vicious punch and is versatile. Is he worth 650pts compared to other units you can take for those points? Eh, maybe not, but that will depend on the player. I don’t think you will go wrong if you decide to put him in your list and the combos you can pull with allies such as Fateweaver get nasty, but also eat up most of your points. What combos do you think you can pull with Magnus? Do you think he is worth the hefty price tag? And it bears repeating: what a bad ass model! Which head option would you go with?
Sure, it will be a nightmare to clear them out-assuming they make new units.
But if they don't make new units, but are part of the same unit-they will quickly take down the unit's quality due to average T value.
And if they DO make new units-that's the mother of all killpoint mines to exploit right there. blue horrors are rather fragile, and brimestones are as fragile as possible (who ares about 2W when you are T2? practically only Deldar, guard and GSC don't Id you with basic guns)
Anyway, from the few tidbits of known information, the 1ksons won't be as terribad as the previously existing TCSM/1ksons, but won't be very impressive either.
Magnus is a huge deal, but he's too big to be affordable for a standard game. just too many points into one model in an army already suffering from low model count.
Ahriman is unchanged sans the ability to take a disc and having more diciplines to work with. except, his main "unique thing" is the ability to spam a given witchfire, so new diciplines are not really attractive for him.
The disk could make him good, if priced cheap. but as it stands, 230 for him just isn't good enough.
The base rubrics are unchanged sans having new weapon options. but said weapon options are not really worth the price given that their base gun is pretty good to begin with. (heck, the flamer is arguably a downgrade!)
Exalted sorcerers...are not any better than regular sorcerers I'd reckon. a regular sorcerer with level 2 and MoT is 100, so its 60 points over for +1W,I,BS, fearless and a 1-shot attack.
That attack is good, but not THAT good, and being decent in CC due to higher I with his force weapon does not change all that much.
And MoT isn't all that good by itself. so unless they got themselves something more built-in, I'm not impressed.
Tzaangors are decent, but for horde purposes you would probably just take horrors anyway.
Scarab Occult, the leader clocks out as a 125 points sorcerer if you built him from a regular sorcerer, but again-MoT overpriced (though on termies its actually useful)
So you got 125 points split among the rest of the crew, being 31.25 per termi-not bad at all. 40 for extras though, so another squad will serve you better then buffing numbers.
Ap3 bolters is nice, but you already got plenty of these. the value drops the more you get due to over saturation. power weapons are...not horrible. and built in MoT is nice on termies.
Compared to regular CSM termies where you pay 39 for a termi with MoT and VotLW, you are getting a steal, but who takes these two on them?
Weapons upgrades are again, completely pointless, as you already got similar power coming from your regular guns.
So are they worth 250 base? I have my doubts. they are not horrid, heck they are better than most termies. but then again, compared to termies.
It all comes down to the formations eventually.
The units themselves, none really impresses me. (and I already bought a 1ksons army, via BoP. so I'm pretty bummed. hope the BoP kit can form a formation host.)
Emperor protect us.....honestly, against that amount of horrors I'm not sure what to do. how do you handle that many models? It almost seems like they took daemon factory and turned it up a notch.
So Magnus is a 2++ rerollable IWND monster that will never die, and the rest of the army is crap due to still being over priced. People will just run Magnus with a bunch of pink horror as WC generators so he can wreck gak. What fun...
stompygitz wrote: Emperor protect us.....honestly, against that amount of horrors I'm not sure what to do. how do you handle that many models? It almost seems like they took daemon factory and turned it up a notch.
Shoot them there T3 with a 5+ invul bring a punisher and you will chew threw an entire unit a turn.
Problem is, the FLG "article" about formaitons is a mess. its really hard to understand just what you can or can't take in the formations.
And by that, impossible to get any kind of idea behind the very narrow perspective of the dude who wrote it. or even to really know what tools are available to you.
For example, one of the best power depends on maxing out a formation, but what IS a maxed out formation is left for guessing.
If its easy to max them out, then some could be incredible, but if making it up requires 10 units, than its irrelevant.
We really need more solid data about the formations.
I'm imagining allied Magnus with Fateweaver and a Grimoire holder. Plus an unholy amount of cheap Brimstone Horrors that generate as many warp charges as you want to summon whatever you need.
And if any of the Brimstone Horrors get Possession....
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
All the 1kson/tzeetch mortal stuff looks good and he even listed prety much all of it as good formations in that artical. TBH I'm prety sure love for 1ksons/Tzeetch Mortals is what most players cared the most about.
the formations semm to be quiet okay. especially the core one.
having rerollable to hit rolls of 1's when a psyker in a unit successfully casts a power is quiet nice. Especially if it is a blessing. then the unit also increases its invulnerable save by 1.
what makes the core shine even more is if you play it with maximum selections. that grants you the reroll saves of 1 for every unit within the formation. couple that with the bonus above and you get the drill.
dont forget, the activation of a force weapon is a blessing.
meaning rubics will run around with 3+/3++ and reroll to hit and saves of 1's. that makes them very durable.
same goes for scarab occult terminators. running with 2+/3++ and reroll to hit and saves of 1's.
and we are not talking about any other blessings here. its just a forceweapon activation. especially since each psyker can cast one additional power within the great cabal. activating force is possible for quiet few WC's (especially if you got the siphon energy spell on a focus character)
that makes rubics and terminators quiet tough to take out, even without additional support via a sorceror.
the HQ's can use their abilitys to increase the strength of the non cult units. it really opens up a lot of possibilities.
I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
That sounds like hogwash. Ill eat a shoe if Gulliman comes back before the Lion.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
That sounds like hogwash. Ill eat a shoe if Gulliman comes back before the Lion.
stompygitz wrote: Emperor protect us.....honestly, against that amount of horrors I'm not sure what to do. how do you handle that many models? It almost seems like they took daemon factory and turned it up a notch.
You don't. ANyone that says "shoot them!" obviously hasn't played Warhammer 40k because you can't just "shoot" them" if they continually spawn more units since you're limited in your shooting.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
Disappointment. Occult Termies are 50 PPM which is the same cost of Paladins that have 2 wounds Rubric Marines are still overpriced, and have "upgrades" which consist of them becomes walking enemy upgrades for the almost terminator cost of 30 PPM.
Let me repeat that for 30 points you get a SnP model with an assault weapon that has an 8" range, that has worse AP then the standard weapon, a 3+ armor save, and a single wound. It is literally a 7 point DOWNGRADE.
Not gonna lie, removing scatter would speed up the game if they replaced it directly with BS, would lower the amount of arguments too with scatter direction.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Sooooo why do they stop with 1 clone and not just do a whole army?
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
Disappointment. Occult Termies are 50 PPM which is the same cost of Paladins that have 2 wounds Rubric Marines are still overpriced, and have "upgrades" which consist of them becomes walking enemy upgrades for the almost terminator cost of 30 PPM.
Let me repeat that for 30 points you get a SnP model with an assault weapon that has an 8" range, that has worse AP then the standard weapon, a 3+ armor save, and a single wound. It is literally a 7 point DOWNGRADE.
Occult terminators are 40ppm and come with a 90 point sorcerer equivalent to a 125 point sorcerer if you bought the same options from HQ.
Flamer Rubrics are transparently for spilling out of rhinos, cause more potential wounds and ignore cover.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Sooooo why do they stop with 1 clone and not just do a whole army?
Guiliman in a Dreadknight. I'm guessing he got this directly from Mat Ward.
stompygitz wrote: Emperor protect us.....honestly, against that amount of horrors I'm not sure what to do. how do you handle that many models? It almost seems like they took daemon factory and turned it up a notch.
You don't. ANyone that says "shoot them!" obviously hasn't played Warhammer 40k because you can't just "shoot" them" if they continually spawn more units since you're limited in your shooting.
Except the amounts the spawn is also limited.
And they are very VERY easy to kill.
Souba wrote: the formations semm to be quiet okay. especially the core one.
having rerollable to hit rolls of 1's when a psyker in a unit successfully casts a power is quiet nice. Especially if it is a blessing. then the unit also increases its invulnerable save by 1.
what makes the core shine even more is if you play it with maximum selections. that grants you the reroll saves of 1 for every unit within the formation. couple that with the bonus above and you get the drill.
dont forget, the activation of a force weapon is a blessing.
meaning rubics will run around with 3+/3++ and reroll to hit and saves of 1's. that makes them very durable.
same goes for scarab occult terminators. running with 2+/3++ and reroll to hit and saves of 1's.
and we are not talking about any other blessings here. its just a forceweapon activation. especially since each psyker can cast one additional power within the great cabal. activating force is possible for quiet few WC's (especially if you got the siphon energy spell on a focus character)
that makes rubics and terminators quiet tough to take out, even without additional support via a sorceror.
the HQ's can use their abilitys to increase the strength of the non cult units. it really opens up a lot of possibilities.
Question is, what IS the "maximum selections" exactly?
I mean, most cores in multi-formation-detachments are between 9 to 15 units when decked out. I don't expect anything nearly as big, but even 2 sorcerers, 3 rubrics and 2 scarab-not much at all with mere 7 units, is clocking at over1000 points, before upgrades or additional models.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Sooooo why do they stop with 1 clone and not just do a whole army?
I think it'll be clearer why when a writer explains it but my understanding was the the soul or spirit of Ferrus was transferred into this new body. So that's why there is only one, because there was only one spirit.
I don't think you're really understanding how the rules work. A blue horror is just as easy to kill as a brimstone because they have T2 so most weapons wound on a 2+ anyway. They also have a 5++, reroll 1s which makes them MUCH more difficult than some random Grot. The game is balanced on armies of equal point values fighting one another, when one side gets a ton of new units that means the shooting you thought you had is MUCH less effective because you've in essence lost a few turns of firepower.
For an investment of 795 points (4 units of 20 pink horrors + herald with loci) you're getting 2,160 FREE points in return. How can you say "they're very easy to kill", when there are 5x as many you have to kill. I assume no math has been done. Ontop of that they are ML1 and Obsec.
This is quite possibly one of the dumbest rules GW has ever created.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Sooooo why do they stop with 1 clone and not just do a whole army?
I think it'll be clearer why when a writer explains it but my understanding was the the soul or spirit of Ferrus was transferred into this new body. So that's why there is only one, because there was only one spirit.
But that doesn't even make sense. That would mean his spirit has to be attached to his body the entire time. And what happens when there's multiple body parts? how did they attach his spirit? How did they control it, or keep it?
Question is, what IS the "maximum selections" exactly?
I mean, most cores in multi-formation-detachments are between 9 to 15 units when decked out. I don't expect anything nearly as big, but even 2 sorcerers, 3 rubrics and 2 scarab-not much at all with mere 7 units, is clocking at over1000 points, before upgrades or additional models.
exactly. its going to be expensive but that isnt the real issue if the core is allready VERY solid. most armys have to pay a core formation tax in order to get the good stuff after that. this one got one really nice on as its core.
I'm still confused as to whether the "Leader of the Legion" or whatever formation can be taken on it's own, or if the only way to take Magnus outside of the decurion is the Magnus + 3-9 Sorcs/Princes formation.
I want him, and will be getting him, but I don't want to use him with Sons. I think he fits better with Daemons.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Sooooo why do they stop with 1 clone and not just do a whole army?
I think it'll be clearer why when a writer explains it but my understanding was the the soul or spirit of Ferrus was transferred into this new body. So that's why there is only one, because there was only one spirit.
But that doesn't even make sense. That would mean his spirit has to be attached to his body the entire time. And what happens when there's multiple body parts? how did they attach his spirit? How did they control it, or keep it?
It'll be clearer when they explain it, I only caught/ understood a bit of what was said as not a reader of the fluff just like the story progression in bite size pieces!
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
All the 1kson/tzeentch mortal stuff looks good and he even listed pretty much all of it as good formations in that article. TBH I'm prety sure love for 1ksons/Tzeetch Mortals is what most players cared the most about.
Okay, when some one tells you something is good that doesn't mean its good.
Next you have to look at how you can implement the actual rules. If you have to pay 2000+ points in models to get a rule that adds a tiny bit of durability to your already overpriced army then its not good. If you can cast extra spells but have no way to generate extra charges so you can cast those spells then its worthless.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
All the 1kson/tzeentch mortal stuff looks good and he even listed pretty much all of it as good formations in that article. TBH I'm prety sure love for 1ksons/Tzeetch Mortals is what most players cared the most about.
Okay, when some one tells you something is good that doesn't mean its good.
Next you have to look at how you can implement the actual rules. If you have to pay 2000+ points in models to get a rule that adds a tiny bit of durability to your already overpriced army then its not good. If you can cast extra spells but have no way to generate extra charges so you can cast those spells then its worthless.
okay, when someone tells you something is bad, that doesn't mean its bad. like, seriously ~
Pretty lame how its always oh this army isn't instawin in the tourney scene so it sucks.
Personally i think the rules are neat, the army sounds like a lot of fun to play, and the models are just amazing.
Sounds like I get to field a bunch of pimp looking marines, my favorite line of daemons, and have all sorts of crazy psyker stuff going on. Toss in some cool FWIA13 units for fun. Love it, this is the first army that has me even considering not playing an imperial army.
As for the horrors, I'm not concerned. They are weak as hell, without seeing the rules, if I am understanding this, we don't know if they make new units or not, or if they still get to spawn if the unit is wiped? either way they are weak units, smash them all with templates or high rate of fire weapons, or just ignore the horrors. Ive been forced to ignore much more dangerous units than some pink horrors and did ok.
we gave invisible death stars and gak rolling around but respawning pink horrors goes too far? haha cmon guys.
criddopher wrote: Pretty lame how its always oh this army isn't instawin in the tourney scene so it sucks.
Personally i think the rules are neat, the army sounds like a lot of fun to play, and the models are just amazing.
Sounds like I get to field a bunch of pimp looking marines, my favorite line of daemons, and have all sorts of crazy psyker stuff going on. Toss in some cool FWIA13 units for fun. Love it, this is the first army that has me even considering not playing an imperial army.
As for the horrors, I'm not concerned. They are weak as hell, without seeing the rules, if I am understanding this, we don't know if they make new units or not, or if they still get to spawn if the unit is wiped? either way they are weak units, smash them all with templates or high rate of fire weapons, or just ignore the horrors. Ive been forced to ignore much more dangerous units than some pink horrors and did ok.
we gave invisible death stars and gak rolling around but respawning pink horrors goes too far? haha cmon guys.
What if someone starts spawning invisible pink horrors.
criddopher wrote: Pretty lame how its always oh this army isn't instawin in the tourney scene so it sucks.
Personally i think the rules are neat, the army sounds like a lot of fun to play, and the models are just amazing.
Sounds like I get to field a bunch of pimp looking marines, my favorite line of daemons, and have all sorts of crazy psyker stuff going on. Toss in some cool FWIA13 units for fun. Love it, this is the first army that has me even considering not playing an imperial army.
As for the horrors, I'm not concerned. They are weak as hell, without seeing the rules, if I am understanding this, we don't know if they make new units or not, or if they still get to spawn if the unit is wiped? either way they are weak units, smash them all with templates or high rate of fire weapons, or just ignore the horrors. Ive been forced to ignore much more dangerous units than some pink horrors and did ok.
we gave invisible death stars and gak rolling around but respawning pink horrors goes too far? haha cmon guys.
the horrors are actually quiet stunning. blue horrors are T and S 2, brimstone horrors are T and S 1 but have 2 wounds (yeah most stuff does instakill them but poison for instance doesnt.)
at the end every phase when a unit of pink horrors loses models, it spawns a new unit of blue horrors with 2 blue horrors per dead pink horror.
at the end every phase when a unit of blue horrors loses models, it spawns a new unit of brimstone horrors with 1 brimstone horror per dead blue horror.
that means if any horror unit does not get instantly killed in a single phase, it can spawn multiple new units.
all 3 horror types are brotherhoof of psykers. have a 5+ invulernable save aswell as daemon of tzeentch. meaning you can put them in a ruin for example to camp a objective, go to ground (daemons can, they are not fearless) for a 3++ with rerollable 1's.
every dead horror per phase, spawns additional mission objective holders and generate more warpcharges.
now imagine those guys in a Combined arms detatchment, with objective secured.
even if a deathstar manages to kill a single horror unit per turn. it still has to kill a total of 3 horror units per pink horror unit. and we are talking about best case scenario here for the deathstar.
Loki old fart, that would actually be bad most likely for the horror player haha
Souba it's "quite" not "quiet" =P
This release sounds awesome and a ton of fun so far! Although as I'm suoer picky about mould lines and take forever to build models, if horrors are the most competitive list I will be sad =[
Pretty lame how its always oh this army isn't instawin in the tourney scene so it sucks.
Personally i think the rules are neat, the army sounds like a lot of fun to play, and the models are just amazing.
My thoughts exactly. Look, if you're a really competitive player I get this might be a bit of a dissapointment. For me, it's basically a dream come true. New Tzeentch disciplines, stunning models, and loads of fun new toys. The whole pink horrors thing is ridiculous, I'll admit, but if they're played as an ally to CSM (that is, one unit of em), the whole multiplication thing might be a laugh.
All in all, a great release, one that's going to give me a lot of great stuff to paint, and an insufferably long psychic phase. Look forward to it!
Noctem wrote: Loki old fart, that would actually be bad most likely for the horror player haha
Souba it's "quite" not "quiet" =P
This release sounds awesome and a ton of fun so far! Although as I'm suoer picky about mould lines and take forever to build models, if horrors are the most competitive list I will be sad =[
ah forgive me, its late. i am tired. spelling errors might happen from time to time then
Guilliman in a Dreadnaught suit, and Ferrus in a dreadnaught suit as well are the first two loyalist to come back?
It's now rumoured, not necessarily true.
Spoiler:
The Guilliman part sounds ok to me, the Ferrus part sounds completely stupid
All of this sounds like garbage. Despite one of the rumors being about my chosen legion's primarch, it just doesn't jive. It sounds like another one of Mat Ward's wet dreams.
So what is the wording on the 'split' rule for horrors? Do blue horrors created from one pink horror unit have to go in one unit of their own or can you split them up to aquire several extra WC per round of enemy shooting?
I can see this getting rediculous with people doubling the WC they started off with, leading to crazy shenanigans with Ahriman firing off 3 SD psychic attacks per turn AND passing those powers on a 3+ AND supported by Magnus who passes on a 2+ and fires his own SD/throws round buffs. (If Magnus had Ahriman's rule for witchfires then he would be one of the most op units in the game)
mrhappyface wrote: So what is the wording on the 'split' rule for horrors? Do blue horrors created from one pink horror unit have to go in one unit of their own or can you split them up to aquire several extra WC per round of enemy shooting?
I can see this getting rediculous with people doubling the WC they started off with, leading to crazy shenanigans with Ahriman firing off 3 SD psychic attacks per turn AND passing those powers on a 3+ AND supported by Magnus who passes on a 2+ and fires his own SD/throws round buffs. (If Magnus had Ahriman's rule for witchfires then he would be one of the most op units in the game)
If I am correct, the rules state that a new unit is created each turn. So the Blue Horrors are placed into a new unit - with more added to said unit every phase they are killed. This begins a new with the next turn.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Disappointment or 'Does not live up to your personal expectations?'
Disappointment. Occult Termies are 50 PPM which is the same cost of Paladins that have 2 wounds Rubric Marines are still overpriced, and have "upgrades" which consist of them becomes walking enemy upgrades for the almost terminator cost of 30 PPM.
Let me repeat that for 30 points you get a SnP model with an assault weapon that has an 8" range, that has worse AP then the standard weapon, a 3+ armor save, and a single wound. It is literally a 7 point DOWNGRADE.
Dude, Stop Complaining
I have to Pay 30ppm for a 2W T4 Model with a 5+ save and FnP and all they have is an AP5 Rending Weapon with a +2S Unwieldy Power Sword OR a +3S Unwieldy AP2 Weapon
AND NO RANGED WEAPONS
mrhappyface wrote: So what is the wording on the 'split' rule for horrors? Do blue horrors created from one pink horror unit have to go in one unit of their own or can you split them up to aquire several extra WC per round of enemy shooting?
I can see this getting rediculous with people doubling the WC they started off with, leading to crazy shenanigans with Ahriman firing off 3 SD psychic attacks per turn AND passing those powers on a 3+ AND supported by Magnus who passes on a 2+ and fires his own SD/throws round buffs. (If Magnus had Ahriman's rule for witchfires then he would be one of the most op units in the game)
If I am correct, the rules state that a new unit is created each turn. So the Blue Horrors are placed into a new unit - with more added to said unit every phase they are killed. This begins a new with the next turn.
If an existing unit of the proper type of horrors is within 6" they join that unit, otherwise they become a new unit.
mrhappyface wrote: So what is the wording on the 'split' rule for horrors? Do blue horrors created from one pink horror unit have to go in one unit of their own or can you split them up to aquire several extra WC per round of enemy shooting?
I can see this getting rediculous with people doubling the WC they started off with, leading to crazy shenanigans with Ahriman firing off 3 SD psychic attacks per turn AND passing those powers on a 3+ AND supported by Magnus who passes on a 2+ and fires his own SD/throws round buffs. (If Magnus had Ahriman's rule for witchfires then he would be one of the most op units in the game)
If I am correct, the rules state that a new unit is created each turn. So the Blue Horrors are placed into a new unit - with more added to said unit every phase they are killed. This begins a new with the next turn.
If an existing unit of the proper type of horrors is within 6" they join that unit, otherwise they become a new unit.
It's still pretty ridiculous - especially as the new unit is made up of an even larger number of more expensive models - which are even more fragile than the last - and will spawn a larger number of even more expensive models. While it sounds nice in theory, the game simply isn't build to accommodate such features in it's current state.
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Are the xenos factions just getting pushed to the side next year then?
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Are the xenos factions just getting pushed to the side next year then?
Nah, the Eldar will get a new meta-breaking update.
Jetbikes will now be able to take 2 scatter lasers each and if they do so they both become twin-linked for free!
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
Welcome to your short-lived and disappointing time on the rumor tracker.
mrhappyface wrote: So what is the wording on the 'split' rule for horrors? Do blue horrors created from one pink horror unit have to go in one unit of their own or can you split them up to aquire several extra WC per round of enemy shooting?
I can see this getting rediculous with people doubling the WC they started off with, leading to crazy shenanigans with Ahriman firing off 3 SD psychic attacks per turn AND passing those powers on a 3+ AND supported by Magnus who passes on a 2+ and fires his own SD/throws round buffs. (If Magnus had Ahriman's rule for witchfires then he would be one of the most op units in the game)
Here ya go. Took these this morning for a Facebook group. And two extras.
No, I don't normally write in my books but it is a review copy and the internet was shouting to hurry up ad spoil.
Hulksmash wrote: How in God's name is no one talking about massive "jump" units thanks to that relic. Depending on its cost that item is damn magnificent.
yeah, don't forget 6 nice artefacts that
give a unit or a friendly unit within 12' jump for the phase
a melee weapon S user, AP 2, force, demon weapon, Bane of Wisdom (vs non-vehicles use bearer's leadership vs. taget's leadership as the toughness to wound value, though normal toughness applies for instant death)
helm giving bearer's unit with S&P ability to overwatch, or if unit doesn't have S&P they overwatch at BS 2
staff S +2, AP 4, concussive, force, enemies subtract 2 from charge distance when charging you
gun 12" S4, AP 3, pistol, blast soul blaze
scroll if psyker makes a successful psychic test roll where 2 or more dice are the same # the power is at unstoppable force so target can't get a deny chance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Town Called Malus wrote: Be careful people, he's trying to trick us into breaking our own necks in our rush to read his rules!
Hulksmash wrote: How in God's name is no one talking about massive "jump" units thanks to that relic. Depending on its cost that item is damn magnificent.
yeah, don't forget 6 nice artefacts that
give a unit or a friendly unit within 12' jump for the phase
a melee weapon S user, AP 2, force, demon weapon, Bane of Wisdom (vs non-vehicles use bearer's leadership vs. taget's leadership as the toughness to wound value, though normal toughness applies for instant death)
helm giving bearer's unit with S&P ability to overwatch, or if unit doesn't have S&P they overwatch at BS 2
staff S +2, AP 4, concussive, force, enemies subtract 2 from charge distance when charging you
gun 12" S4, AP 3, pistol, blast soul blaze
scroll if psyker makes a successful psychic test roll where 2 or more dice are the same # the power is at unstoppable force so target can't get a deny chance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Town Called Malus wrote: Be careful people, he's trying to trick us into breaking our own necks in our rush to read his rules!
Seriously, thanks VeteranNoob
Drat, drat, and double drat...foiled again!
Whilst I'd love more detailed knowledge of formations, I think my single biggest question at the moment is: Who is eligible to take relics? Can aspiring sorcerers or Scarab Terminator sorcerers take them?
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
So much of this feels wrong. How did Manus uploaded after being decapitated and having his head become a trophy? Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit? If manus can come back why not batman(curze)? They've said they aren't doing a destruction of the universe and a super sayan showdown in the big e's throne room.....Plus people working on 8th are super tight lipped.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @veteran noon
Is it just a single unit or the bearer unit and a friendly unit?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
Ferrus was one of the most dead primarches in 30k. He was decapitated and his body torn apart by people looking for relics.
I don't belive he somehow he is coming back and the pyshic Cruz isn't according to that rumour. Ferrus got killed a lot harder, and had no psychic ability to turn himself into a ghost or anything.
Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit?
I'm confused how stuffing a Primarch into a Dreadnought is the hardest thing to swallow?
The Ferras Manus one... Yeah that's hard to swallow, but putting a wounded Primarch into a specialized Dreadnought for himself to fight once more is off?
Wilson wrote: I learned a few pretty cool things today about the future of 40k that I can't keep to myself but must keep the source identity as anonymous as he is a part of the design team...
Spoiler:
Next primarch release is Guiliman in a sort of dreadnight suit. Following him will be Ferrus! In short, his spirit lived on in the machine, so somehow he was cloned and is genetically reborn on Mars. Following those two is demon mortation.
The general jist is that ALL major primarchs are on there way back with the exception of Horus, Sanguinius, Curze etc.
It'll be a final seige on Terra and the next campaign will build up to the demon primarchs breaking in to the emperors throne room and confronting the man himself before the lights go out. No clue what happens after that!
In terms of rules for the next edition, all that was said was that scatter dice would be a thing of the past.
So much of this feels wrong. How did Manus uploaded after being decapitated and having his head become a trophy? Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit? If manus can come back why not batman(curze)? They've said they aren't doing a destruction of the universe and a super sayan showdown in the big e's throne room.....Plus people working on 8th are super tight lipped.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @veteran noon
Is it just a single unit or the bearer unit and a friendly unit?
I wouldn't worry about anything that starts with, a buddy of mine at the design team told me such in good faith but here internet let me break said trust immediately. Could it be true, sure, but he even said he doesn't follow the fluff at all so how can he be accurate enterpreting all that when he doesn't understand whats happened in the story. Manus was butchered by Fulgrim and turned into a trophy on a planet where his men were massacred to the man and lost the the traitors. That was the worst primarch to make up a return arc, even worse then Sanguinius or Horus IMO.
Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit?
I'm confused how stuffing a Primarch into a Dreadnought is the hardest thing to swallow?
The Ferras Manus one... Yeah that's hard to swallow, but putting a wounded Primarch into a specialized Dreadnought for himself to fight once more is off?
Because he said dread knight not dead nought. As in that silly thing the Grey knights use that everyone lampoons.
Pretty sure even gw knows at this point the community consider it one of the dorkiest plastic models gw makes right now.
Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit?
I'm confused how stuffing a Primarch into a Dreadnought is the hardest thing to swallow?
The Ferras Manus one... Yeah that's hard to swallow, but putting a wounded Primarch into a specialized Dreadnought for himself to fight once more is off?
Because he said dread knight not dead nought. As in that silly thing the Grey knights use that everyone lampoons.
Pretty sure even gw knows at this point the community consider it one of the dorkiest plastic models gw makes right now.
I don't know. I don't think the idea behind the dreadknight is any more ridiculous than skyscrapper-sized bi-pedal walkers, for instance. This is a universe where it's considered tactically sound to use war hammers and shields against tanks... The implementation of the dreadknight was poor, I'll agree with that. But 40k has never been much more than a bunch of goofy tropes dialed up to 11. I don't understand why the dreadknight (or sticking a primarch in one) is suddenly considered to be too much. I kind of like the idea
@changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
VeteranNoob wrote: @changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
If unit leader sorcerers can take relics, it'll say so on their data sheet.
Mostly I'm asking because the idea of making a unit of jump terminators appeals to me, and likely to others too.
I've also heard that the Perturabo will be part dinobot siege engine with a large canon mounted on his back and a dozerblade for a shield.
Anyways, from what I've seen it looks like horror hordes backed up by tough as nails rubrics and scarabs will be the order of the day for 1ksons. Do you pump shotinto the horrors and spawn more, or put them into the marines and watch it bounce off their invuln saves? Yeesh.
Ir0njack wrote: I've also heard that the Perturabo will be part dinobot siege engine with a large canon mounted on his back and a dozerblade for a shield.
Plus he combines with the other traitor primarchs to form chaostron!
VeteranNoob wrote: @changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
If unit leader sorcerers can take relics, it'll say so on their data sheet.
Mostly I'm asking because the idea of making a unit of jump terminators appeals to me, and likely to others too.
yeah, sadly it doesn't say they can. It does say icons and gear but not general relics, sadly. But who knows if they may errata.
Ir0njack wrote: I've also heard that the Perturabo will be part dinobot siege engine with a large canon mounted on his back and a dozerblade for a shield.
Plus he combines with the other traitor primarchs to form Mechahorus!
Fixed that for you now that the cat is out of the bag
VeteranNoob wrote: @changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
If unit leader sorcerers can take relics, it'll say so on their data sheet.
Mostly I'm asking because the idea of making a unit of jump terminators appeals to me, and likely to others too.
yeah, sadly it doesn't say they can. It does say icons and gear but not general relics, sadly. But who knows if they may errata.
Thanks!
That's okay. A bit more of a stretch to pull off, but I can always put a disc sorcerer in some appropriately fast bodyguard unit and have him pick the terminators to grant jump.
VeteranNoob wrote: @changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
The relic that grants "jump". Frontline said unit it was in and another. You said another. I was asking for clarification
Guilleman is healing. Why would he need a super suit?
I'm confused how stuffing a Primarch into a Dreadnought is the hardest thing to swallow?
The Ferras Manus one... Yeah that's hard to swallow, but putting a wounded Primarch into a specialized Dreadnought for himself to fight once more is off?
My worry is that putting anything in a suit is going to limit you to what that suit can do. So he better not have superman stats and powers, after all, dreadnoughts are not nearly as good as they were in 30k.
That seems like a pretty derpy move for exalted sorcerers to not get relics? They're supposed to be sorcerers+1 after all.
Can they at least roll on divination? That could make for some interesting options.
Suddenly all of our non-vehicle daemon units get stormshields while being otherwise buffed, and jump if you want to. Including our terminators.
That could be especially interesting when combined with a black crusade detachment/formations.
Objective secured terminators with stormshields or jump possessed with all buffs active. Potentially even completely ignoring terrain with that warlord trait.
This might be a genuinely good release. Fluffy as all hell, new units and a mostly sane power level. The warlord traits and relics are sweet too.
It doesn't fix wraithknights, but if they ever do (hah) we might be in a good place.
VeteranNoob wrote: @changemod - it says those eligible in CSM codex to take relics can so I don't believe they can, but maybe? That's why I took a pic of that page with the text for folks to see for themselves.
@hulksmash which relic are you referring to?
@axisofen... It seems to be, as written, as many baby horrors as you have models and space for. We played around with this today on the table to see how ridiculous this can be and even if someone buys hundreds when the boxes come out next year terrain puts some limitations on that in practice.
The relic that grants "jump". Frontline said unit it was in and another. You said another. I was asking for clarification
Oh, I gotcha. Astral Grimoire (30 pt)
AT the start of the movement phase pick the bearer or a single friendly infantry unit within 12" of the bearer. For duration of the phase that unit has the Jump unit type.
Roknar wrote: That seems like a pretty derpy move for exalted sorcerers to not get relics? They're supposed to be sorcerers+1 after all.
Can they at least roll on divination? That could make for some interesting options.
Suddenly all of our non-vehicle daemon units get stormshields while being otherwise buffed, and jump if you want to. Including our terminators.
That could be especially interesting when combined with a black crusade detachment/formations.
Objective secured terminators with stormshields or jump possessed with all buffs active. Potentially even completely ignoring terrain with that warlord trait.
This might be a genuinely good release. Fluffy as all hell, new units and a mostly sane power level. The warlord traits and relics are sweet too.
It doesn't fix wraithknights, but if they ever do (hah) we might be in a good place.
exalted sorcerors are able to get relics.
they have acces to the following 11 disciplines: pyromancy, telekinesis, telepathy, divination, biomancy, malefic daemonology, the 4 new CSM disciplines aswell as the new updated tzeentch CSM discipline.
i wonder if they still have to generate at least 1 power on their god still.
i would love to build one on disc with ML 3, the AP2 force daemonweapon and let him roll on the heresy equivalent of librarius and hoping to get either the malefication with -2 to invulnerable saves, the +2 S,T,I,A blessing or the blessing that allows you to reroll all failed saves.
he would have 7-12 attacks on the charge (9-14 with the blessing) with AP 2 that can wound almost everything on 4+ if not better (your LD is taken as S value, while the enemys LD is taken as T value)
3LP with T5 3+/3++ whenever he gets a blessing off
can be in for some fun that guy. im glad there is a equivalent to the axe of blind fury lord
Roknar wrote: That seems like a pretty derpy move for exalted sorcerers to not get relics? They're supposed to be sorcerers+1 after all.
Can they at least roll on divination? That could make for some interesting options.
Suddenly all of our non-vehicle daemon units get stormshields while being otherwise buffed, and jump if you want to. Including our terminators.
That could be especially interesting when combined with a black crusade detachment/formations.
Objective secured terminators with stormshields or jump possessed with all buffs active. Potentially even completely ignoring terrain with that warlord trait.
This might be a genuinely good release. Fluffy as all hell, new units and a mostly sane power level. The warlord traits and relics are sweet too.
It doesn't fix wraithknights, but if they ever do (hah) we might be in a good place.
Exalted sorcerers can take chaos rewards and artefacts, but aspiring for rubric and termies don't have that option listed. Wish that were not the case :( I guess ICs joining units is what I'll do. But yeah, I agree.
Why do you guys hope it's bs we know the loyalist Primarchs are coming back in some way do you guys just want them to appear normal again I mean it's been 10,000 years
Well one of them is asleep, another vanished until his chapter can find all 7 artefacts and a third got his throat sliced and has sort of been on life support for all this time.
Pretty much the lion has the best chance of returning out of the loyalist primarchs at the moment, without some plot gymnastics.
Here ya go. Took these this morning for a Facebook group. And two extras.
No, I don't normally write in my books but it is a review copy and the internet was shouting to hurry up ad spoil.
From where did you get the review copy (I'm not asking for source, just a local store or from GW)? I hope not from GW because if I were GW and had sent you a review copy I'd be pretty pissed that you posted pics of it's content. It is appreciated so don't get me wrong, I just want people with preview copies to be able to post what the sisters in Imperial Agents and Sisters codex (hopefully) are like.
Hulksmash wrote: How in God's name is no one talking about massive "jump" units thanks to that relic. Depending on its cost that item is damn magnificent.
Because it's stupid. TS are a shooty army so giving them the jump special rule is like giving Tau a rending melee attack.
Hulksmash wrote: How in God's name is no one talking about massive "jump" units thanks to that relic. Depending on its cost that item is damn magnificent.
Because it's stupid. TS are a shooty army so giving them the jump special rule is like giving Tau a rending melee attack.
Because a 12" move that ignores terrian never helped the Eldar army.
Eldar jet bikes are awesome for a few reasons, but being a shooty unit with a 12" move is one.
Crimson wrote: People talk like it is a sure things that loyalist primarchs are coming back. What's the source of this information?
A while ago now, renowned rumorsmith, Sad Panda, said we will be getting one of the Loyalist Primarchs in plastic form alongside plastic Magnus the Red. Not necessarily at the same time, but one Loyalist and one Chaos was stated.
Loyalists don't need everything chaos gets guys :/ all we can honestly hope is that loyalists don't get a not needed primarch so us chaos players can continue to boast ours for decent points and amazing rules ruining loyalists lists one day at a time...
Does anyone else think it is utterly ridiculous to add Soul Blaze to a strength D beam? What are you lighting on fire, ashes?
Not everything dies from a single Str D attack. However, most of the stuff not killed by a Str D attack isn't going to have much problems from Soul Blaze. I suppose it is just for fun.
Soul Blaze is a stupid name for the rule, it makes no sense on most weapons with it. It should simply be renamed Burning. It's also extra rolls that are so insignificant you forget about it allot of the time.
Pain4Pleasure wrote: Loyalists don't need everything chaos gets guys :/ all we can honestly hope is that loyalists don't get a not needed primarch so us chaos players can continue to boast ours for decent points and amazing rules ruining loyalists lists one day at a time...
Every story needs a hero.
I'm ready for hulkbuster- I mean Primarchbuster guilliman.
MadCowCrazy wrote: Soul Blaze is a stupid name for the rule, it makes no sense on most weapons with it. It should simply be renamed Burning. It's also extra rolls that are so insignificant you forget about it allot of the time.
I love the soul blaze mechanic, though you are right, it is basically better referred to as "on fire"
It makes it a lot easier to remember if you use markers, like the wall of fire or sphere of fire from Bones. they also make good hull point trackers for vehicles.
My house rules have soulblaze using the profile of whatever fired it.
That is AWESOME!
More on topic, does anyone here know if the other great companies got core formations for the wolves' multiple formation detachment? (Bran Redmaw needs to know...)
It's from Warzone Fenris Part 1: Curse of the Wulfen as part of the updated Change Discipline. I'm not sure if it got reprinted in Part 2: Wrath of Magnus though.
Hence my "if it ever comes to that" comment. It shouldn't ever come to that, but if it does and for whatever reason you really need that Avatar dead and Magnus is busy flying he can D power it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
It all sounds completely fething moronic. If that's going to be the calibre of fluff going forward we'd be as well to hold the funeral for 40K now, or we'll be in a Weekend at Bernie's situation and the corpse will be reekin'.
EDIT: Oh, and while I doubt this will end up being right, just a word for anyone who immediately jumps to "Pff, nah, that's totes ridiculous, never gonna happen." - yes, it is totes ridiculous, but so are all the various hinted returns of Primarchs. It's not as if "digital reincarnation into a clone body" is somehow orders of magnitude more silly than "comes back from a hell dimension as a giant werewolf" or "has been pulling a Sleeping Beauty for 10,000 years watched by little robed aliens but will come back to life at exactly the right moment in plot" - it's all silly, because it was all meant to be mythical prophesy not actual story. I doubt when they were writing all the hints at how 40K would "end" they ever thought the company would be stupid enough to actually advance the timeline and play out those events, and now they are all bets are off because the existing fluff has already established that the End Times of 40K turns the dial up from 11 to 15 while playing a non-stop guitar solo - normal definitions of plausiblity are out the window.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
It all sounds completely fething moronic. If that's going to be the calibre of fluff going forward we'd be as well to hold the funeral for 40K now, or we'll be in a Weekend at Bernie's situation and the corpse will be reekin'.
I feel a funeral pyre would be nice and symbolic but burning plastic can produce some nasty fumes.
But in al seriousness, considering it was the quality of the fluff of death bed Warhammer Fantasy, and is the current tier of lore that populates Age of Sigmar, it's all very much possible.
I can't wait to pay $250 + for an ultramarine blue Buzz Lightyear, or Ferrus's head in a jar on a giant robot body. In fact, I'm dissapointed nobody's brain got put in a gorilla!
Joyboozer wrote: I can't wait to pay $250 + for an ultramarine blue Buzz Lightyear, or Ferrus's head in a jar on a giant robot body. In fact, I'm dissapointed nobody's brain got put in a gorilla!
I can do that for you, I like converting. BTW how much is that in real money
I don't mind them bringing back primarchs, so long as it's primarchs that make sense. Like the lion or maybe even guilliman, I mean, He's got to be done healing at some point right? But bringing Ferrus Manus back?...
That's like bringing Horus back and making him emperor 2.0 now that the haze was lifted from his eyes just before being obliterated. I get that it means some people won't be getting their primarchs back, but that would be just wrong. Let the dead rest in peace.
And the guillinaught sounds like stephen hawking in space to me lol. Just keep him in statis but build a suit around it which works because plot.
Also I would imagine TSons are still stuck with at least one god power. They seem to still be csm in every way that matters, they just get the option now to take all of their rolls on the table.
Which also gives ahriman a better chance of rolling that new D power for triple D fun.
And woot to exalted sorcerers. Can't wait for the traitor legion supplement now.
It's from Warzone Fenris Part 1: Curse of the Wulfen as part of the updated Change Discipline. I'm not sure if it got reprinted in Part 2: Wrath of Magnus though.
I haven't seen the updated Change Discipline, or any of the other updated ones. Thanks for that.
As TS-player since 3,5, I'm looking forward to this release, however I'm slightly surprised that we've heard nothing about Screamers/Flamers/Lords of Change.
Maybe they won't be a part of the supplement/formations, or GW decided that there's nothing worth changing about them. Anyone knows?
MinscS2 wrote: As TS-player since 3,5, I'm looking forward to this release, however I'm slightly surprised that we've heard nothing about Screamers/Flamers/Lords of Change.
Maybe they won't be a part of the supplement/formations, or GW decided that there's nothing worth changing about them. Anyone knows?
There is a supplement for sure. I know in the collectors edition it is at least a seperate book. It may be possible that there rules didn't change all that much?
Lords of Change can be taken as a command (or maybe aux?) choice in the new TS decurion - I don't know if/how their rules change in a CSM detachment, though.
Does anyone else think it is utterly ridiculous to add Soul Blaze to a strength D beam? What are you lighting on fire, ashes?
Not everything dies from a single Str D attack. However, most of the stuff not killed by a Str D attack isn't going to have much problems from Soul Blaze. I suppose it is just for fun.
Well lets say you hit 4 guys from a 10 man unit. You utterly destroy those 4 leaving 6 to be set on fire with soul blaze. Not pointless.
If only Soulblaze would be "tiered" you know?, for each subsequent Soulblaze marker on a unit, the hits are resolved with +1 in S and AP, or more hits, going from D3 to D6.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Soul blaze is meant to be subtle adding up over the course of the game though in some games it might be to no effect.
Well it really depends on what the target is, S4 AP5 hits on MeQ or better is nothing to write home about.
on anything else tough...
Killed off an IG command sqaud because they din't drop'n roll to extinguish the flames, din't even need to do anything to them, they just died on themselfs.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
It all sounds completely fething moronic. If that's going to be the calibre of fluff going forward we'd be as well to hold the funeral for 40K now, or we'll be in a Weekend at Bernie's situation and the corpse will be reekin'.
EDIT: Oh, and while I doubt this will end up being right, just a word for anyone who immediately jumps to "Pff, nah, that's totes ridiculous, never gonna happen." - yes, it is totes ridiculous, but so are all the various hinted returns of Primarchs. It's not as if "digital reincarnation into a clone body" is somehow orders of magnitude more silly than "comes back from a hell dimension as a giant werewolf" or "has been pulling a Sleeping Beauty for 10,000 years watched by little robed aliens but will come back to life at exactly the right moment in plot" - it's all silly, because it was all meant to be mythical prophesy not actual story. I doubt when they were writing all the hints at how 40K would "end" they ever thought the company would be stupid enough to actually advance the timeline and play out those events, and now they are all bets are off because the existing fluff has already established that the End Times of 40K turns the dial up from 11 to 15 while playing a non-stop guitar solo - normal definitions of plausiblity are out the window.
I'm just glad that I'm in curent-background-ignoring mode for at least a decade now, so I have practice in blocking out the current (and past, eh, Ward) design studios...work.
Slayer le boucher wrote: Well it really depends on what the target is, S4 AP5 hits on MeQ or better is nothing to write home about.
on anything else tough...
Killed off an IG command sqaud because they din't drop'n roll to extinguish the flames, din't even need to do anything to them, they just died on themselfs.
Cool moment for Soul blaze for sure.
Yeah I could see it being feast or famine. A good reason why it does not stack.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
It all sounds completely fething moronic. If that's going to be the calibre of fluff going forward we'd be as well to hold the funeral for 40K now, or we'll be in a Weekend at Bernie's situation and the corpse will be reekin'.
EDIT: Oh, and while I doubt this will end up being right, just a word for anyone who immediately jumps to "Pff, nah, that's totes ridiculous, never gonna happen." - yes, it is totes ridiculous, but so are all the various hinted returns of Primarchs. It's not as if "digital reincarnation into a clone body" is somehow orders of magnitude more silly than "comes back from a hell dimension as a giant werewolf" or "has been pulling a Sleeping Beauty for 10,000 years watched by little robed aliens but will come back to life at exactly the right moment in plot" - it's all silly, because it was all meant to be mythical prophesy not actual story. I doubt when they were writing all the hints at how 40K would "end" they ever thought the company would be stupid enough to actually advance the timeline and play out those events, and now they are all bets are off because the existing fluff has already established that the End Times of 40K turns the dial up from 11 to 15 while playing a non-stop guitar solo - normal definitions of plausiblity are out the window.
I don't understand how werewolf russ or Dreadnought Girlyman is more ridiculous than 1. A giant snake man 2. A Horn nippled giant chicken 3. The entirety of the mechanicus religion 4. The Daemonculaba 5. Space Vampires 6. A different kind of space vampires 7. The idea that none of the unique named characters have had the gak murdered out of them by an errant artillery strike or an Eldar D-Cannon 8. Space Sharks 9. Space rape demons 10. Cathedrals that are also spaceships 11. Space murder batman 12. FTL only being possible by going directly through hell 13. Between 10-50 thousand space marines being relevant on a galactic scale, especially with how unpredictable the warp is. 14. Servitors. 15. The fall of mankind's galactic empire being summed up by 'Daddy didn't let me play with my toys!' 16. The fact that out of the 13.5 primarchs that were alive at the end of horus heresy, only the traitors are still canonically around while the loyalists all conveniently disappeared. 16. Seriously, Khan, Vulkan, Girlyman, Russ, Dorn, The Lion, and Corvus all just vanish but on the other end just Alpharius is M.I.A? WTF?
40k is silly. The setting is absolutely bonkers and is utterly transmutable. New fluff is too dumb for how dumb the world currently is? Retcon it! They rolled back and entire black crusade for feth's sake.
As daft/improbable/kick ass(take your pick ) as Hulkbuster Gulliman sounds. It would answer the questions of how you make a non demon primarch fresh out of stasis different from his 30k model and fit in the same size/price bracket as Magnus.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
It all sounds completely fething moronic. If that's going to be the calibre of fluff going forward we'd be as well to hold the funeral for 40K now, or we'll be in a Weekend at Bernie's situation and the corpse will be reekin'.
EDIT: Oh, and while I doubt this will end up being right, just a word for anyone who immediately jumps to "Pff, nah, that's totes ridiculous, never gonna happen." - yes, it is totes ridiculous, but so are all the various hinted returns of Primarchs. It's not as if "digital reincarnation into a clone body" is somehow orders of magnitude more silly than "comes back from a hell dimension as a giant werewolf" or "has been pulling a Sleeping Beauty for 10,000 years watched by little robed aliens but will come back to life at exactly the right moment in plot" - it's all silly, because it was all meant to be mythical prophesy not actual story. I doubt when they were writing all the hints at how 40K would "end" they ever thought the company would be stupid enough to actually advance the timeline and play out those events, and now they are all bets are off because the existing fluff has already established that the End Times of 40K turns the dial up from 11 to 15 while playing a non-stop guitar solo - normal definitions of plausiblity are out the window.
I don't understand how werewolf russ or Dreadnought Girlyman is more ridiculous than 1. A giant snake man 2. A Horn nippled giant chicken 3. The entirety of the mechanicus religion 4. The Daemonculaba 5. Space Vampires 6. A different kind of space vampires 7. The idea that none of the unique named characters have had the gak murdered out of them by an errant artillery strike or an Eldar D-Cannon 8. Space Sharks 9. Space rape demons 10. Cathedrals that are also spaceships 11. Space murder batman 12. FTL only being possible by going directly through hell 13. Between 10-50 thousand space marines being relevant on a galactic scale, especially with how unpredictable the warp is. 14. Servitors. 15. The fall of mankind's galactic empire being summed up by 'Daddy didn't let me play with my toys!' 16. The fact that out of the 13.5 primarchs that were alive at the end of horus heresy, only the traitors are still canonically around while the loyalists all conveniently disappeared. 16. Seriously, Khan, Vulkan, Girlyman, Russ, Dorn, The Lion, and Corvus all just vanish but on the other end just Alpharius is M.I.A? WTF?
40k is silly. The setting is absolutely bonkers and is utterly transmutable. New fluff is too dumb for how dumb the world currently is? Retcon it! They rolled back and entire black crusade for feth's sake.
The Carcharodons Astra are awesome take that back.
ERJAK wrote: The fact that out of the 13.5 primarchs that were alive at the end of horus heresy, only the traitors are still canonically around while the loyalists all conveniently disappeared. 16. Seriously, Khan, Vulkan, Girlyman, Russ, Dorn, The Lion, and Corvus all just vanish but on the other end just Alpharius is M.I.A? WTF?
In the old fluff, the primarch were not immortal, the loyal ones either died of old age (e.g. went to live on a farm.. No, I mean went off into the eye of terror with an entire thirteenth of the chapter), or were preserved in stasis, while the illoyal ones had chaos to prolong their life, or lived in the warp, where time had no meaning.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really hope the 'Guilinaught' rumour is a load of BS. Sounds super-stupid.
...
...16. Seriously, Khan, Vulkan, Girlyman, Russ, Dorn, The Lion, and Corvus all just vanish but on the other end just Alpharius is M.I.A? WTF?
Also didn't Lorgar lock himself in a tower and say "I won't come out until Chaos tells me to"? I don't see how that's functionally any different from the Lion's 40,000 year naptime.
Russ went on his vendetta into the eye of terror.
Corax was also seen heading for the eye of terror.
The Lion is in stasis in the Rock.
Vulkan is doing whatever perpetuals do while they wait for their followers to reunite relics.
Guillman is doing his best Lenin impersonation, until he heals.
Dorn is MIA after leading a boarding action.
Khan disappeared into the Maelstrom pursued by Dark eldar.
As far as their lifespan not even the primarchs know how long they'll live.
GoatboyBeta wrote: As daft/improbable/kick ass(take your pick ) as Hulkbuster Gulliman sounds. It would answer the questions of how you make a non demon primarch fresh out of stasis different from his 30k model and fit in the same size/price bracket as Magnus.
I think that the best way to bring back an imperial primarch would be to have, for example Russ, come wandering out of nothingness and be just a very tired old man after thousands and thousands of years of fighting. Have him worn down, without any of his legendary equipment and missing an arm. Still pretty impressive, all things told, but ultimately just a little tougher and meaner than a chapter master. Any 40k primarch should be diminished. They'd still be a huge deal for their successors and cause massive schisms in the Imperium by simply existing but nothing you could smack down on the tabletop and totally wreck things with.
LightKing wrote: Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?
We have had a few threads in 40K general about "advancing the 40K" story line. A lot of people think or say 40K is a setting and the 40K setting shouldn't advance so therefore Primarchs should never be in a 40K setting story since none of them are around for the last 30 years so introducing them now would be advancing the setting that so many are clamouring for.
So this leads to big arguments on who is right or wrong instead of having "this is our opinion" instead.
Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.
LightKing wrote: Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?
I think it is because marines of various stripes are involved in so many death stars. If the primarchs come back in 7th edition, the death stars will only be buffed.
LightKing wrote: Why are so many people adamant about not wanting the primarchs to return?
I think it is because marines of various stripes are involved in so many death stars. If the primarchs come back in 7th edition, the death stars will only be buffed.
Half the deathstars in the competitive scene are chaos though...
Rosebuddy wrote: Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.
This. Primarchs are barely remembered myths and should remain that way. It would alter the theme of the setting and I don't want that. But I (and others) have explained this many times and some people just don't get it.
Rosebuddy wrote: Probably because 40k is built on the Imperium's craziest achievements being long in its past. It's such a huge change that people doubt GW will do it well. It's also very similar to the whole End Times deal for WHFB, which doesn't inspire confidence.
This. Primarchs are barely remembered myths and should remain that way. It would alter the theme of the setting and I don't want that. But I (and others) have explained this many times and some people just don't get it.
Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.
It's a shame it will advance it in it's typical fashion - that being incoherent and poorly written and balanced. I'm expecting a lot of big plastic monsters and very predictable 'big events' if this goes the way of the Age of Sigmar. Advancing the story line would be a very exciting thing if it weren't for the approach taken.
Well, I for one, am glad GW isn't listening to you I love the idea of advancing the story, answering some of the questions, creating new stuff.
That worked great for fantasy Warhammer world!
I think it did actually. I have the fluff and endtimes books from the old world. They segue well into my new fluff books as a time of legends before the current times in Fantasy. The end of the first trilogy of a several trilogy book series. Could they have done something different? Yes. Would it have been better? I'm not so sure. I mean to me the idea that the great beings and gods of the old world spawn a whole new pocket universe is awesome. And the fluff is actually solid. To many people saw stormcasts and were mad about the old world to really give it a go. Some is meh but it's also constructing a whole new world. I can't be the only guy who doesn't even bother with codexes anymore not because of the price but because there isn't anything new to learn that isn't a random tidbit I can find online? I can only buy a DA codex so many times before I run out of things to learn That said when a new faction comes out I grab their books still for background (Knights, Harlequins, Admech, GSC) and I get all the campaign books now that the story is starting to move. Besides they aren't going to blow up the universe, it's already been said.
Overall I'm very, very happy with the timeline and events moving forward. Granted I know not everyone is but I KNOW that. Quite a few people on the hate train of moving the fluff forward don't seem to KNOW that there are quite a few people on the other side who enjoy the movement.
Can't wait for the campaign book. The overall army list is probably a no go for me so the new models aren't going to be something I get but bring on Daemon Prince Perturabo and I'm all in
Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided
LightKing wrote: Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided
Well, they probably won't scrap the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the setting cannot be horribly mutilated. Whether you personally like it or not you must recognise that messing with the basic axioms of a setting that has remained relatively static for several decades is precarious business.
LightKing wrote: Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has.....so people saying 40k will fall into the end time/age of sigmar trap i think are misguided
Well, they probably won't scrap the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the setting cannot be horribly mutilated. Whether you personally like it or not you must recognise that messing with the basic axioms of a setting that has remained relatively static for several decades is precarious business.
I doubt advancing the 40k fluff is going to change that much in regards to individual factions. The overarching struggle for power in the galaxy will be altered and we may see the imperium on the back foot as chaos envalopes Terra, the Nids hive fleets engulf the 'south east' of the galaxy and the necrons awake across the galaxy as they begin to reconstruct their lost empire. This will leave the imperium fractured and will actually be a nice time for the primarchs to come back and defend what is left of the imperium.
Will this affect the table top game? No.
Will this affect the previous fluff of factions? No.
What will it do? Give chaos/xenos a break, take down the imperium factions a peg or two and it will open up hundreds of brand new stories to be told of the new galaxy after the fall of Terra.
Calm down everyone: the galaxy won't fracture into individual universes just because the primarchs come back.
Hulksmash wrote: The overall army list is probably a no go for me so the new models aren't going to be something I get but bring on Daemon Prince Perturabo and I'm all in
I very much doubt we will see Perturabo. You'll see Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim. The Sisters of Silence are rumored to have the ability to "unmake a god". I fully expect them to employ this ability against the 2 daemon primarchs that GW wishes they could forget about.
They'll obviously want the loyalists to be the Lion, Russ, Guilliman and Sanguinius, for sales reasons. But isn't Sanguinius dead? Don't worry. Life, uh, finds a way.
I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.
Loopstah wrote: I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.
Oh gak! That actually sounds credible... And would utterly ruin 40K. This is exactly the sort of crap I'm afraid.
LightKing wrote: Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...
Uhh... you sure about that?
Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.
Loopstah wrote: I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.
Oh gak! That actually sounds credible... And would utterly ruin 40K. This is exactly the sort of crap I'm afraid.
Without getting too political, you sound like an american that insists they should own a firearm because ISIS might attack.
The only thing to fear is fear itself. It was true then and it's true now.
Back on topic then shall we?
What do we believe the legions are going to get? I myself am interested to see if there are new content on top of what we are already getting for the thousand sons, and eagerly await Night Lord formations.
LightKing wrote: Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...
Uhh... you sure about that?
Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.
Ummm... that doesn't actually say anything.... we are talking about the amount of fluff, not that each race has it's own story. 40k is leagues ahead of fantasy
LightKing wrote: Fantasy had no where near the level of developed fluff that 40k has...
Uhh... you sure about that?
Yea that made me roll my eyes too. I haven't touched fantasy since 6th ed granted, but I remember playing Skaven almost entirely based on the fluff back when plastic clanrats were 1 terrible pose.
Ummm... that doesn't actually say anything.... we are talking about the amount of fluff, not that each race has it's own story. 40k is leagues ahead of fantasy
So I have been looking at the spoilers so far and something about the usr for the army caught my eye. It said that any detachment can come from the Thousand Sons. Would this mean that a Black Crusade detachment, and all formations within, have those rules along with the normal rules? Maybe I'm looking into it too much, but if that is true, that is pretty awesome and might tip me over on picking the army up.
I may have missed it as I've been trying to get caught up on a lot of this stuff since Thanksgiving. But did anyone mention if the hobby sections in the books provide for alternative color schemes? Is there a non-Ahriman red and gold scheme for example? Is there anything in the background to further justify this?
Yea, that would work. Obviously limiting you to tzeentch and forcing you to take marks, but yes. Raptor talons could charge from deepstrike without being affected by terrain( warlord trait), even warp talons with storm shields if you want or non scattering terminators (warlord trait again) also with stormshields. One can only wonder what kind of shenanigans we can pull with the traitor legion supplement.
Nvs wrote: I may have missed it as I've been trying to get caught up on a lot of this stuff since Thanksgiving. But did anyone mention if the hobby sections in the books provide for alternative color schemes? Is there a non-Ahriman red and gold scheme for example? Is there anything in the background to further justify this?
The fluff book ends (chapter 4) with 6 2-page spreads of alt color schemes from the 9 cults. Not huge differences, metallics and shades of blue, though there is a red one. Kinda cool how each scheme gives the tzaangor different color body/fur/feathers or whatever.
Or how about they get it, they understand but still have a differing opinion? Ah the Sheldon syndrome. If you don't agree you are wrong.
No, some people literally don't get it as proven by the next post from yours:
ERJAK wrote: I don't really get all the anti-primarchs coming back hate.
1. All the evil primarchs have been alive and active for 10000 years, who gives a gak if they suddenly have 'good' primarchs too?
2. 40k fluff is basically a bad Michael Bay acid trip in space anyway. An arthouse masterpiece it is not.
Yes, chaos primarchs have always existed, so giving them rules and models is not altering the setting, it is in fact, really cool.
However, a big part of Imperium's theme is that is a crumbling dystopia, it's glory days long past it and barely remembered legends. Bringing back mythical superheroes of the legends would drastically undermine that theme. That is a big chance. Now, you're perfectly free to not care or even like that change, but it is a change nevertheless and it should be perfectly understandable that people who like the setting as it is are not happy about it.
I don't know a great deal about WFB, but I've been reading more and more about it now that I'm playing through Total War: Warhammer. The idea that it is somehow deficient in story/setting compared to 40k is laughable.
I don't know a great deal about WFB, but I've been reading more and more about it now that I'm playing through Total War: Warhammer. The idea that it is somehow deficient in story/setting compared to 40k is laughable.
Which version came out first and in what year? Which version has the most novels and books? Which version has the most factions to work with? Material alone, there is enough written about the 40k universe to fill half a library.
Or how about they get it, they understand but still have a differing opinion? Ah the Sheldon syndrome. If you don't agree you are wrong.
No, some people literally don't get it as proven by the next post from yours:
ERJAK wrote: I don't really get all the anti-primarchs coming back hate.
1. All the evil primarchs have been alive and active for 10000 years, who gives a gak if they suddenly have 'good' primarchs too?
2. 40k fluff is basically a bad Michael Bay acid trip in space anyway. An arthouse masterpiece it is not.
Yes, chaos primarchs have always existed, so giving them rules and models is not altering the setting, it is in fact, really cool.
However, a big part of Imperium's theme is that is a crumbling dystopia, it's glory days long past it and barely remembered legends. Bringing back mythical superheroes of the legends would drastically undermine that theme. That is a big chance. Now, you're perfectly free to not care or even like that change, but it is a change nevertheless and it should be perfectly understandable that people who like the setting as it is are not happy about it.
How does this undermine the theme? The theme has always been super-post-humans fighting against the dying of the light. If anything, bringing back the Primarchs just illustrates how dire the situation is. It drives home the idea that things are at their most desperate.
How does this undermine the theme? The theme has always been super-post-humans fighting against the dying of the light. If anything, bringing back the Primarchs just illustrates how dire the situation is. It drives home the idea that things are at their most desperate.
It undermines the declining empire theme if it's greatest heroes, and arguably greatest scientific achievements, the Primarchs return. It destroys the 'mythic past' aspect of the Heresy, if the demigods from that legendary era walk among the people. As someone said earlier, it's like if King Arthur or Jesus actually came back, it changes everything.
How does this undermine the theme? The theme has always been super-post-humans fighting against the dying of the light. If anything, bringing back the Primarchs just illustrates how dire the situation is. It drives home the idea that things are at their most desperate.
It undermines the declining empire theme if it's greatest heroes, and arguably greatest scientific achievements, the Primarchs return. It destroys the 'mythic past' aspect of the Heresy, if the demigods from that legendary era walk among the people. As someone said earlier, it's like if King Arthur or Jesus actually came back, it changes everything.
Not seeing the problem. Their greatest heroes come back...and still can't turn the tide of Tyranid flesh and Necron metal.
The last great hope came true...and it didn't stop the doom. That sounds pretty dark and hopeless.
Light is still dying, people still fighting against it. Theme still intact.
The thing is, the Primarchs returning will shake up the statue quo for a lot of the Imperiums leadership. I could easily see them branding said long lost heroes as traitors and heretics, that they are spouting non-sense about the Imperial Truth (heresy!), or claiming that they were missing during these dark times, when mankind needed them most, etc...And it would work, most likely. Especially with Magnus being the first Primarch to return, setting the precedence for the rest.
Which version came out first and in what year? Which version has the most novels and books? Which version has the most factions to work with? Material alone, there is enough written about the 40k universe to fill half a library.
Fantasy was released back in 83, 40k was released in 87.
So fantasy came first.
Fantasy also has more books by far.
Define factions? are we talking space marines in general or splitting all chapters?
Either way, fantasy yet again.
Doesnt matter how you cut it, fantasy came before 40k and the sheer volume of material for it is amazing.
So no, 40k does not have more "lore" to it atall.
Also, keep in mind your saying 40k, so all heresy era stuff is out aswell since that would be 30k at present.
Which version came out first and in what year? Which version has the most novels and books? Which version has the most factions to work with? Material alone, there is enough written about the 40k universe to fill half a library.
Fantasy was released back in 83, 40k was released in 87. So fantasy came first.
Fantasy also has more books by far. Define factions? are we talking space marines in general or splitting all chapters? Either way, fantasy yet again.
Doesnt matter how you cut it, fantasy came before 40k and the sheer volume of material for it is amazing. So no, 40k does not have more "lore" to it atall.
Also, keep in mind your saying 40k, so all heresy era stuff is out aswell since that would be 30k at present.
40K does have more full novels, but a huge chunk of them are the Horus Heresy series and of the rest the majority are Space Marine books of different flavours. Fantasy has less novels overall but those it has are more spread among all the races and factions so you actually get more information about the setting as a whole, from loads of different viewpoints compared to the more Imperium-centric 40K. Sure, all the Space Marine chapters have different ways of doing things (some more than others) but not to the extent of the difference between Dwarfs and Dark Elves, as an example.
CaptainSomas wrote: The thing is, the Primarchs returning will shake up the statue quo for a lot of the Imperiums leadership. I could easily see them branding said long lost heroes as traitors and heretics, that they are spouting non-sense about the Imperial Truth (heresy!), or claiming that they were missing during these dark times, when mankind needed them most, etc...And it would work, most likely. Especially with Magnus being the first Primarch to return, setting the precedence for the rest.
Emperor-worship could be quite the devisive thing if loyalist Primarchs return. They were adamantly against it, as the Emperor Himself commanded. The only one to venerate the Emperor as a deity was the Primarch of the Word Bearers and argueably the one who started the entire Horus Heresy. If the Primarchs return and see the Imperium has devolved into Emperor-worship, it might be grounds for the fracturing of the Imperium and a new Great Crusade of sorts. Of course, the existing Imperium would not tolorate the unwillingness of these "usurpers" to worship their God-Emperor, especially the High Lords of Terra who may see the Primarchs as a threat to their rule...
nintura wrote: Which version came out first and in what year? Which version has the most novels and books? Which version has the most factions to work with? Material alone, there is enough written about the 40k universe to fill half a library.
*record scratch*
Hold the phone...
1. How new are you to all this. 2. When you say Fantasy, are you talking about Age of Sigmar alone? 3. If the answer to question 2 is 'yes', then are you aware that prior to the invention of Sigmarines there was a game called Warhammer Fantasy Battles, that it was enormous, ran for 30 years, and has more lore than you can shake a squig at.
Loopstah wrote: I more imagine the "unmake a god" part is them surrounding the Golden Throne and finally killing the Big E himself to allow him to finally become whole in the warp and ascend to become the 6th Chaos God. That way all the loyalist Primarchs get to return as Daemon princes as well, and GW gets to sell a ton of huge expensive models that don't cut into the sales of their 30K counterparts.
How does this undermine the theme? The theme has always been super-post-humans fighting against the dying of the light. If anything, bringing back the Primarchs just illustrates how dire the situation is. It drives home the idea that things are at their most desperate.
It undermines the declining empire theme if it's greatest heroes, and arguably greatest scientific achievements, the Primarchs return. It destroys the 'mythic past' aspect of the Heresy, if the demigods from that legendary era walk among the people. As someone said earlier, it's like if King Arthur or Jesus actually came back, it changes everything.
Feth the current theme. It's BORING. Literally no action anyone in all the galaxy takes matters because NOTHING HAPPENS. So to correct that, they move the story forward, a snails pace to be sure, milk it for another 20 years; big universe after all. But here's the thing, the good guys are hopelessly outmatched. 6 Demon Primarchs, just as many named, powerful characters as in the whole of the imperium, and an endless legion of greater demons and former legionaires to pull even bigger bads out of. The outcome would be hilariously foregone, even to a casual reader. Why then, get invested? Why, if you've never followed the fluff before, bother trying to catch up when at the end of the day all you're doing is watching the dirt settle on the grave of the imperium. So you need heroes, big names, names that would cause as many problems as they would offer solutions but little tiny glimmers of possibility. Watching a decrepit broken down imperium finally fall would ultimately lack meaning, even for Chaos. Seeing an Imperium topple as it's greatest heroes fail, as it's final opportunity to save itself, to bring itself back from the edge, is squandered, that would be a compelling story.
How does this undermine the theme? The theme has always been super-post-humans fighting against the dying of the light. If anything, bringing back the Primarchs just illustrates how dire the situation is. It drives home the idea that things are at their most desperate.
It undermines the declining empire theme if it's greatest heroes, and arguably greatest scientific achievements, the Primarchs return. It destroys the 'mythic past' aspect of the Heresy, if the demigods from that legendary era walk among the people. As someone said earlier, it's like if King Arthur or Jesus actually came back, it changes everything.
But what if Jesus comes back, and says "Guess what, guys, I'm not white. Let's enslave all the white people"....
Ok that is extreme. But a Primarch coming back *could* have a similar effect.
Look at how the imperium is now, vs. how the primarchs left it. They most likely would be pretty pissed that the Imperium is in the state of decay it currently is in, and that most of the citizens now worship either the Emperor or the Chaos Gods, rather than upholding the Imperial Truth. They could just as easily work AGAINST the Imperium rather than for it, since it has fallen so far from it's former glory. They may not even agree about keeping good ol' Dad on life support for 10,000 years.
Let's cut to the chase. You keep exclaiming that it will "undermine" the theme if they bring them back. I think you don't quite grasp the meaning of the term. Just because it alters the setting, doesn't mean it is "undermining" the theme, simply because you don't like the direction it is going in.
In order to combat the greatest antagonists, you need some protagonists. Any writer of any story ever can tell you such. You need some champions or else it starts to lose the suspension of disbelief. Lord of the Rings would have been a drastically different story with no humans, elves, or dwarves. It would just be a bunch of furry-footed hobbits getting put to the sword. That would have been boring for the reader, easily predictable. If the hobbits had somehow overpowered the evil forces in open combat, that would have been even worse, since it would be so ridiculous.
You can have your opinion. But you don't have to keep whining about it and telling everybody they are wrong, too. It's enough to say "I wouldn't like it if the Primarchs come back, but oh well"
Sorry to get off the topic of primarchs and back to the release at hand, but does anyone know if you can mix weaponry on the Tzaangors in the same unit? I really want to use my AoS Tzaangors and I figure that mixing the weaponry will help hide the lack of poses on both them and the figures from the new box.
Yes, let's cut the offtopic shall we. Discussing what an eventual return of the "good" primarchs may change in the 40k setting seems like a way different topic than discussing the upcoming Thousand Sons release.
I'm curious about Tzaangors, because quite frankly, I'm not sure what their point is. Surely if you want cannon fodder and/or objective holders, 10 pink horrors is superior in every concieveable way?
Is there a formation that will make them do...well, anything really? Seems a waste to add a "new" unit (Yes, I know it existed back when the world was young) only to have them act as fodder.
I'm curious about Tzaangors, because quite frankly, I'm not sure what their point is. Surely if you want cannon fodder and/or objective holders, 10 pink horrors is superior in every concieveable way?
Is there a formation that will make them do...well, anything really? Seems a waste to add a "new" unit (Yes, I know it existed back when the world was young) only to have them act as fodder.
I don't think GW always thinks in terms of what role models serve and whether or not they are strictly inferior to competitor units.
This set of models looks like an AoS release with a sprue of 40k weapons added as an afterthought and also as a quick win for the company. I personally love the models and I'm glad they made them usable in 40K. I'd also rather choose them than horrors simply because I don't much like the horror models.
Slayer le boucher wrote: quick question because i can't find it back, wasn't there a formation for the Daemons that doubled the amounts of Horrors spawing from the Split rule?
its not a formation, its a loci that one herald can get. so the horrors in his unit split twice as much.
Slayer le boucher wrote: quick question because i can't find it back, wasn't there a formation for the Daemons that doubled the amounts of Horrors spawing from the Split rule?
Slayer le boucher wrote: quick question because i can't find it back, wasn't there a formation for the Daemons that doubled the amounts of Horrors spawing from the Split rule?
adamsouza wrote: Okay, Pink Horrors split on their death into 2 blue horrors, like they used to. Do they still have the brotherhood of sorcerers rules?
I have an entire Daemon Army that revovles around Pink Horrors and I need to know whether I'm buying a ton of new blue horrors, or scrapping the army.
here is the exact rule: "Split: If a friendly unit of Pink Horrors suffers any casualities, the salin Horrors will split and create Blue Horrors at the end of that Phase (after all other units have performed their actions and made their attacks).
Two Blue Horrors are created for each slain Pink Horror- if there is allready a friendly Blue Horror unit within 6" of the Ping Horrors, add the newly created Blue Horrors to that unit, otherwise set them up as a new unit within 6" of the unit of Pink Horrors.
If a rule causes a Whole unit of Pink Horrors to be Removed at once (excluding Daemonic Instability), you can immediatly create a unit of Blue Horrors, just before removing the last model from the Pink Horrors unit. The unit of Blue Horrors has to models for each model in the unit of Pink Horrors at the point at which it is removed, and must be set up with all models within 6" of the last model from the Pink Horror unit."
Blue and Brimstone Horrors both stil are Brotherhood of Sorcerors. Blue horrors with 11-20 models generate 2 Warp Charges, while Brimstone Horrors only can ever generate 1 Warpcharge.
Its also worth mentioning that Horrors only have access to the Tzeentch Discipline now. no longer daemonology.
adamsouza wrote: Okay, Pink Horrors split on their death into 2 blue horrors, like they used to. Do they still have the brotherhood of sorcerers rules?
I have an entire Daemon Army that revovles around Pink Horrors and I need to know whether I'm buying a ton of new blue horrors, or scrapping the army.
here is the exact rule: "Split: If a friendly unit of Pink Horrors suffers any casualities, the salin Horrors will split and create Blue Horrors at the end of that Phase (after all other units have performed their actions and made their attacks).
Two Blue Horrors are created for each slain Pink Horror- if there is allready a friendly Blue Horror unit within 6" of the Ping Horrors, add the newly created Blue Horrors to that unit, otherwise set them up as a new unit within 6" of the unit of Pink Horrors.
If a rule causes a Whole unit of Pink Horrors to be Removed at once (excluding Daemonic Instability), you can immediatly create a unit of Blue Horrors, just before removing the last model from the Pink Horrors unit. The unit of Blue Horrors has to models for each model in the unit of Pink Horrors at the point at which it is removed, and must be set up with all models within 6" of the last model from the Pink Horror unit."
Blue and Brimstone Horrors both stil are Brotherhood of Sorcerors. Blue horrors with 11-20 models generate 2 Warp Charges, while Brimstone Horrors only can ever generate 1 Warpcharge.
Its also worth mentioning that Horrors only have access to the Tzeentch Discipline now. no longer daemonology.
thats still pretty terrifying since you can just set up the blue horrors 6" away and move them away from each other and end up with a bunch of 3-4 man units.
exactly and not to forget playing those horrors in a regular combined arms detatchment grants them objective secured. getting those off a objective is nigh impossible.
ERJAK wrote: Feth the current theme. It's BORING. Literally no action anyone in all the galaxy takes matters because NOTHING HAPPENS. So to correct that, they move the story forward, a snails pace to be sure, milk it for another 20 years; big universe after all. But here's the thing, the good guys are hopelessly outmatched. 6 Demon Primarchs, just as many named, powerful characters as in the whole of the imperium, and an endless legion of greater demons and former legionaires to pull even bigger bads out of. The outcome would be hilariously foregone, even to a casual reader. Why then, get invested? Why, if you've never followed the fluff before, bother trying to catch up when at the end of the day all you're doing is watching the dirt settle on the grave of the imperium. So you need heroes, big names, names that would cause as many problems as they would offer solutions but little tiny glimmers of possibility. Watching a decrepit broken down imperium finally fall would ultimately lack meaning, even for Chaos. Seeing an Imperium topple as it's greatest heroes fail, as it's final opportunity to save itself, to bring itself back from the edge, is squandered, that would be a compelling story.
Hopeless or not is up for players to fight out on the tabletop...That was always the idea in 40k. Setting for players to fight out the story. GW wasn't supposed to provide the story as that's just limiting players own imagination and stories. But guess some people need to be hand fed stories rather than do their own.
And for not mattering...AOS is prime example of not mattering when GW has designed whole new setting so that it's 100% irrelevant what happens. So yeah good job from GW. In 40k at least it's possible for one side to lose. In AOS nobody CAN lose.
Insert evil laugh here!
but well i wanted to expand on the army anyway since it literally was settling dust for years...
