Not only that but I'm fairly certain Sad Pands and or Lady Atia confirmed no 2016 Sisters which does not contradict anything about there never being plastic Sisters in 2017.
People put their damn expectations too high when this is only meant to be physical rules for the current and soon to be outdated 7th edition Sisters rules. I think they even referred to it as just a taste for what is to come.
Given the Deathwatch and GK bits don't replace their Codex, why should any of this mean anything in your Codex is lost? Just ignore this cash-grab print run and use what you use.
JohnnyHell wrote: Given the Deathwatch and GK bits don't replace their Codex, why should any of this mean anything in your Codex is lost? Just ignore this cash-grab print run and use what you use.
The entire Deathwatch Codex was not fully printed in the new book - no one with actual info has said if the AS codex is repalced by the CIA one or not.
The disclaimer does NOT appear on the page for Gray Knights, Deathwatch, Assassins or Legion of the Dammed.
My suspicion would be this is because Assassins and Legion of the Dammed are a straight copy and paste job, so they have not been "revised and updated".
Captain Joystick wrote: So yeah. I went into the store to pre-order the canoness and drop off a secret Santa package.
The store owner walked up to me with a kind of mirthful Willie Wanka look to him- every day I'd see him I'd answer his 'hello' with an assertive 'sisters when?' and I could tell he was excited to at last be able to say 'now'.
We talked about ordering multiples and he explained they were only allowing one per unique e-mail address, but I was already a step ahead on that... Then when we tried to place the order... it had been sold out.
26 minutes after it went on sale.
Twenty six fething minutes.
He was flabbergasted. He was expecting at least four other diehard sisters players to drop in the store, gloat, and order the model. GW apparently didn't anticipate the model would be so popular, despite being the first new model sisters have gotten in ten years?
Honestly... for me it's still more evidence that GW doesn't understand what it is they have with battle sisters. Like those old cartoon gags where a character professes to like something and the other persistently thinks they're being sarcastic.
It wasn't a complete wash, though. I ordered Space Pope and the Inquisitor model, she will be a fun project for a rainy day; and I stuck around and painted my blood bowl orcs. Those four other sisters players showed up, too. Looking to order and leaving disappointed.
The store owner was positively livid.
Twenty six minutes!
I have a feeling that they did the same thing Sony did back when the PS3 came out. Made way to few and are now shocked that they dont have enough.
GWHQ:"But...but the Special Edition Space Marine didnt sell out, whats going on???"
Players: "Dude you cant walk 3 feet without tripping over a "special" Space Marine. This is the first new model you've given Sisters in 10 years!! How many did you make anyway?"
GWHQ: "........."
Players: "How many??"
GwHQ: "Only a few hundred......."
Players:
They better do another run of her, cuz i know a fair few people who want one, and we never got a chance to get her.
The disclaimer does NOT appear on the page for Gray Knights, Deathwatch, Assassins or Legion of the Dammed.
My suspicion would be this is because Assassins and Legion of the Dammed are a straight copy and paste job, so they have not been "revised and updated".
So it looks to me like, yes, the rules for sisters of battle and Inquisition have been "revised and updated" aka replaced.
But if your opponent is fine with you using the older books then why not! Looks like GW is not planning to yank them from the apple store just yet.
(allthough they could do this, and do sometimes do it with old versions of the 40k rules or codex space marines just FYI)
Can we quit the ask your opponent stuff for a while? You could play Sisters using bars of soap and the 2nd ed High Elves codex 'if your opponent agrees'.
When talking about replacing or overwriting rules, only what is still legal in tournaments has any importance, beer and pretzels games you can still do whatever you want.
Gamgee wrote: I think they even referred to it as just a taste for what is to come.
Cut & paste rules with a bump for the gak-arse Ecclesiarchy War Conclave?
Grimmor wrote: GWHQ:"But...but the Special Edition Space Marine didnt sell out, whats going on???"
Players: "Dude you cant walk 3 feet without tripping over a "special" Space Marine. This is the first new model you've given Sisters in 10 years!! How many did you make anyway?"
GWHQ: "........."
Players: "How many??"
GwHQ: "Only a few hundred......."
Players:
I lol'd.
GW: HQ: "... but there's still Special Edition Space Marines you can buy!"
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote:Is GW crazy or the ones that buy them? Sometimes i question myself.
It's us. If we were sane we would have left along time ago.
Souleater wrote:
Davor wrote: . They always seemed to like the old way of doing things. I am sure they would still appreciate it now even with them accepting the electronic age now.
It isn't necessarily that they are old fashioned but that physically sending a letter takes some effort.
It''s easy to dash off an overheated electronic message and hit send.
But actually sitting down to compose and write a letter seems to be a lost art. Then there is the matter of addressing an envelope and getting it, with correct postage to the post box. A series of tasks that would have given even Hercules pause.
So companies do tend to take them more seriously.
As wiser and cooler posters have noted. This isn't the rumoured new Sisters Codex. This is a another book that gives folks another pathway into Sisters. It does not replace Codex Adepta Sorortias.
If you are still upset then write to GW. Be polite ...because I remind you that you haven't lost anything, or been mislead in anyway as far as we know. And we're talking about toy soldiers, here.
The suggestion of stamped self-addressed envelopes is a good one.
Thanks, I got crucified almost suggesting this and saying what you did minus the part where I actually did it. Can't remember if it was on Dakka, another forum or both.
ERJAK wrote:Can we quit the ask your opponent stuff for a while? You could play Sisters using bars of soap and the 2nd ed High Elves codex 'if your opponent agrees'.
When talking about replacing or overwriting rules, only what is still legal in tournaments has any importance, beer and pretzels games you can still do whatever you want.
Ummmm, I tried playing beer and pretzel game and it's amazing how people will not change anything that is not "by the rules". So yes "agree with your opponent" is a must because in a lot of cases you must play their way. So the person you quoted statement is very valid.
I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see the book, but it looks as Inquisition got gutted. It looks like about half the henchmen options went to Sisters (unless this book let's you take units from all the factions contained within interchangeably), and nothing was added. I was hoping for a Storm Trooper/Scion troop choice so I can run a reasonable kill team. Hopefully that rumored Inquisition boxed game is a thing so I can make use of some of my favorite models for the first time since the 5th edition GK book came out.
I agree, first impressions this looks like a disaster. We really need someone to leak the actual rules stating how the factions interact in the book and who gets access to which transport options etc.
Sabotage! wrote: I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see the book, but it looks as Inquisition got gutted. It looks like about half the henchmen options went to Sisters (unless this book let's you take units from all the factions contained within interchangeably), and nothing was added. I was hoping for a Storm Trooper/Scion troop choice so I can run a reasonable kill team. Hopefully that rumored Inquisition boxed game is a thing so I can make use of some of my favorite models for the first time since the 5th edition GK book came out.
I think at this point the book can go in one of two ways. If you can use them interchangeably as they are all part of the same faction since they are in the same book, then it still has a lot of really neat stuff to offer. If it doesn't, then in totality with what else we have learned/think we have learned, book is facing an uphill climb to have any real value beyond digital stuff being physical.
An Inquisition Boxed game would be the PERFECT Release for All Inquisition Type Stuff
Just Imagine Puritans Vs Radicalists!
The Sides:
Puritans (the "Elite" Side)
SoB Squad
An Assassin
Some Henchmen (Scion Type)
Etc
Radicalists (The "More Models" Side)
Arco-Flaggents
Daemonhost
Death Cult Assassins
Some Henchmen (Horde Type)
Jokaero
Puritan Inquisitor will be the Classic Interpretation (=][= Hat, Hellrifle/ Inferno Pistol, Force Sword)
Radicalist Inquisitor will be a Bedraggled Guy (With Crazy hair, DAEMONBLADE and Needle Pistol)
book is facing an uphill climb to have any real value beyond digital stuff being physical.
Firstly, coming from a gaming group that likes to use books instead of tablets, this alone is worth the $40 to get Inquisitors, Sisters, and Assasins in print.
Secondly, without using multiple formations, CADs, etc.. this book is giving us a way to form an eclectic force of Imperial Agents.
Thirdly, this book likely provides additional forces for Kill Teams
Sabotage! wrote: I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see the book, but it looks as Inquisition got gutted. It looks like about half the henchmen options went to Sisters (unless this book let's you take units from all the factions contained within interchangeably), and nothing was added. I was hoping for a Storm Trooper/Scion troop choice so I can run a reasonable kill team. Hopefully that rumored Inquisition boxed game is a thing so I can make use of some of my favorite models for the first time since the 5th edition GK book came out.
The henchmen are presented as indivudual units and there are formations for different factions that allow you to use them together as a single squad. The Inquisition henchmen unit will use entries from throughout the codex for theirs. So the Priest and Psyker use their own datasheets rather than repeat those options. We know already that different Ordos can include GK, DW and SoB in their retinues.
So it's nine different factions, with some methods of mixing them via formations.
book is facing an uphill climb to have any real value beyond digital stuff being physical.
Firstly, coming from a gaming group that likes to use books instead of tablets, this alone is worth the $40 to get Inquisitors, Sisters, and Assasins in print.
Secondly, without using multiple formations, CADs, etc.. this book is giving us a way to form an eclectic force of Imperial Agents.
Thirdly, this book likely provides additional forces for Kill Teams
New Formations !!!!!
New units !!
Citation needed.... do you have the book?
Can you confirm if everything in it retain their own factions meaning nothing in the book can start inside the Valkyries and that you have to ally using the existing Ally rules found in the BRB.
I asked a the same question about the inquisition, waiting on a reply. I suspect it is the same answer. But I find it rather lazy and considering the inquisition can have anything they want it makes little sense that their vehicle of choice is a chimera.. And that they can't even request scions..
GW is clowning hard
book is facing an uphill climb to have any real value beyond digital stuff being physical.
Firstly, coming from a gaming group that likes to use books instead of tablets, this alone is worth the $40 to get Inquisitors, Sisters, and Assasins in print.
Secondly, without using multiple formations, CADs, etc.. this book is giving us a way to form an eclectic force of Imperial Agents.
Thirdly, this book likely provides additional forces for Kill Teams
New Formations !!!!!
New units !!
At the moment based on what we've been told you still need multiple formations, CADs, to field the units in this book. They aren't a cohesive force in the slightest. We'll have to see the formations and what new units there are (not much, if any) but unless the benefits are actually worthwhile then the only hard positive is that this is physical.
ShaneMarsh wrote: Yeah, because at this point if those rumors aren't true then the Sisters are an army I'll be sidelining. Luckily, I absolutely believe the rumors.
I'm straight up out of 40k if they're not true. I'll keep my armies and hope for the future but I've already dropped out of the tournament at adepticon. I refuse to just let this stand, and my Sigmar army is entirely built now so from this point on GW will actually have to do something worthwhile to get any more of my money.
Sabotage! wrote: I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see the book, but it looks as Inquisition got gutted. It looks like about half the henchmen options went to Sisters (unless this book let's you take units from all the factions contained within interchangeably), and nothing was added. I was hoping for a Storm Trooper/Scion troop choice so I can run a reasonable kill team. Hopefully that rumored Inquisition boxed game is a thing so I can make use of some of my favorite models for the first time since the 5th edition GK book came out.
The henchmen are presented as indivudual units and there are formations for different factions that allow you to use them together as a single squad. The Inquisition henchmen unit will use entries from throughout the codex for theirs. So the Priest and Psyker use their own datasheets rather than repeat those options. We know already that different Ordos can include GK, DW and SoB in their retinues.
So it's nine different factions, with some methods of mixing them via formations.
Good to know! Thanks very much for the clarification, it is much appreciated!
ERJAK wrote: Makes all our arguments over Celestine getting EW or not seem a might silly doesn't it?
It does a bit. Wouldn't have saved her here, anyway.
Still, I for one welcome our new Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave overlords, swooping down in their Valkyries (or not, as the case may be) with their Dreadknights at their sides (in a seperate Detachment).
ERJAK wrote: Makes all our arguments over Celestine getting EW or not seem a might silly doesn't it?
It does a bit. Wouldn't have saved her here, anyway.
Still, I for one welcome our new Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave overlords, swooping down in their Valkyries (or not, as the case may be) with their Dreadknights at their sides (in a seperate Detachment).
Even then, Starting a CQC squad in a flyer means turn 3 charge at the best of times. Unless there's a formation to bring it in turn 1.
But they can't start in the flyer anyway. So you can start them on the table, then the Flyer comes in, picks them up, carries them forward, drops them off, and by the time they're in position to charge you've either lost the game or your Sisters have boltered/ Melta'd everything to death and they stand around doing nothing.
Which is pretty much how they work in the 6th Ed book, except now they use up a formation slot instead of requiring a Priest in your CAD. Hooray for progress!
BBAP wrote: But they can't start in the flyer anyway. So you can start them on the table, then the Flyer comes in, picks them up, carries them forward, drops them off, and by the time they're in position to charge you've either lost the game or your Sisters have boltered/ Melta'd everything to death and they stand around doing nothing.
Which is pretty much how they work in the 6th Ed book, except now they use up a formation slot instead of requiring a Priest in your CAD. Hooray for progress!
I thought we were beyond the point where GW was a gakky company run by total morons who have no concept of how their game works or what makes people buy things. I thought new GW finally had a goddam clue in the world but I guess some things never really change.
BBAP wrote: But they can't start in the flyer anyway. So you can start them on the table, then the Flyer comes in, picks them up, carries them forward, drops them off, and by the time they're in position to charge you've either lost the game or your Sisters have boltered/ Melta'd everything to death and they stand around doing nothing.
Which is pretty much how they work in the 6th Ed book, except now they use up a formation slot instead of requiring a Priest in your CAD. Hooray for progress!
Skyshield landing pad. (Now comes with ready to take off for free)
Valkyrie in hover mode
squad on pad.
Turn 1
It's not bad but requires a fortification detschment and cost 75pts
Loopstah wrote:I agree, first impressions this looks like a disaster. We really need someone to leak the actual rules stating how the factions interact in the book and who gets access to which transport options etc.
Why do we need leaks? If GW has changed and they actually talk to their customers/fans now, why hasn't anyone asked them yet if this is the case or not?
Loopstah wrote:I agree, first impressions this looks like a disaster. We really need someone to leak the actual rules stating how the factions interact in the book and who gets access to which transport options etc.
Why do we need leaks? If GW has changed and they actually talk to their customers/fans now, why hasn't anyone asked them yet if this is the case or not?
People have asked, but GW hasn't answered except to say that SoB and Inq got neutered.
Because they haven't changed, they still don't care about the players and they still don't understand how their game works. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they've been fairly silent and suppressing leaks compared to traitor legions is because they didn't realize anything was wrong until people with review copies pointed it out. Now they're just hoping no one publicly spills the beans before they have everyone's money.
ERJAK wrote: Because they haven't changed, they still don't care about the players and they still don't understand how their game works. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they've been fairly silent and suppressing leaks compared to traitor legions is because they didn't realize anything was wrong until people with review copies pointed it out. Now they're just hoping no one publicly spills the beans before they have everyone's money.
That's called "the Creative Assembly Shuffle"; smush info leaks, take pre-orders, gak out a buggy waste of space, then patch it when enough people complain.
Except GW aren't going to patch it. I don't care though, because my mech Scars finally have tax-free access to Arco-Flagellants which was the only thing they needed to be super-competitive and fluffy.
Starfarer wrote: Oh look, another Sisters player lashing out at anyone they can because they're so hellbent on playing the victim they can't get over the fact they play a neglected, largely irrelevant faction in a game.
That's not what's happening. I'm saying you, personally, are salty and condescending, hence it's no surprise nobody listened to you. Not "anyone" or "everyone". Just you.
You can't barrack people and expect them to respect your opinion on anything. That's some life advice there that'll serve you well beyond 40k discussions on Dakka.
Maybe the solution isn't for the rest of us to go form our own threads but to create a special thread for all 8 of you Sisters players here hellbent on being miserable. You can whine to your heart's content and not suck the life out of every other thread on this board that's not about you.
And my point was that Sisters were always pertinent to the thread, hence were always going to be discussed. If that displeases you, find somewhere else to be. Don't whinge because people are discussing Sisters in a thread where Sisters are pertinent. Don't get sandy because you're not getting asspats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To make the army any good you don't want her. She's a lone target that wants to go into melee in an army that doesn't want to do that.
That doesn't mean she's not good. She'll walk through most min squads of anything, including Genestealers, and the 2+/4++/ resurrection means she can bounce a fair bit of shooting for a T3 model. Like I said, if you have space for a CC whopper then she's not a terrible way to spend the points. If not, then you're not going to take her.
No she wasn't even good at that. She's stuck at AP3 and doesn't have EW. She's a waste of points.
I can't believe people in here are actually defending her rules.
The Imperial Agents book presents a revised and updated version of the Adepta Sororitas army list. It is indeed intended to replace the digital version.
Meh GW's social media team can say whatever they want. If space wulfs can choose what Iron priest they can use, and orks can use the green tide formation by FAQ, sisters can use units their old codex.
Grimmor wrote: And proof that Sisters can't get an update without losing units. Dear god.
Indeed - cue various people coming in and sayign we should be grateful for that.
I play multiple armies, and none of them have to put up with this crap. Granted two of them (Skitarii and Cult Mech) didnt exist before this edition, but that isnt the point. Actually know that i think about it Orks had to put up with this too, as they lost Wazdakka Gutzmek and Old Zogwart, still no idea why.
In any event it served no purpose to ditch Celestine, Wazdakka and Zogwart, i mean how much work is it to copy their rules to a Dataslate?
Actually, when Sisters could ride in Drop Pods, they where the more points efficient Heavy Flamer delivery. It was a niche thing, but they where good at it.
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
Celestine being gone means SoB don't have anything useable in the HQ or Elites slot and also makes 1 of their Fast attack slots dam near pointless.
adamsouza wrote: The rules are "revised and updated". Can we at least get a few rules leaks before we declare units unusable ?
Im pretty sure that just means they got some rules clarifications and fancy new dataslates. I dont actually see Celestians getting any better, sadly enough, so that does still leave that slot as gak. However i used Jacobus so im still ok.
"The GW guy (only one opinion, of course) agrees that factions can't start on other transports ), like a SW and BA for example, so unless the sheets in this book give the option it isn't there. I'm more affirmed of thinking of this as a create your RPG force in lots of situations, but that's just me. smile.png I'll add the admech guy on. Try a DW squad maybe one day. But no reason why you can't play your current codex if you prefer.
But I see the GW40KFB page. So, who knows. I guess we will soon."
adamsouza wrote: The rules are "revised and updated". Can we at least get a few rules leaks before we declare units unusable ?
The fact there are no rules leaks pretty much guarantees most of the codex is unusable, otherwise we'd know everything about it like we did WoM or TL. It's almost like there's a massive cover-up going on as GW hope people will be too lazy to cancel the pre-orders they made, once they find out how bad this book is.
ERJAK wrote: There's no reason for space marines to take the conclave. 90% of the C:SM is more point efficient already.
The point is they **can** if they want to, because it's all about Space Marines players getting new toys and supplements in place of a functional Codex.
Dryaktylus wrote: So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
You could, but nobody cares what you do with your Astral Vomitarium army, least of all GW.
So Celstine is gone. I don't care
Duly noted.
I liked Praxedes and Helena
So did I. Would've been nice to see them both brought back, Praxedes especially. Instead of doing that, they slotted the only Sororitas named character. Whether or not you liked Celestine, that feels like a kick in the sourdough.
Nevermind though, eh? We've still got Uriah Jacobus, Defender of The Faith! Nothing screams "righteous fury" like a homeless drunkard with a double-barelled four wood and a flag!
What a gak show. No wonder they told vetnoob off after TL, they knew this book would be crap and couldn't risk people knowing that fact 100% in advance. They're relying on optimism to shift units.
So only ignores 80% of the armour in the game, instead of 100%.
and doesn't have EW.
Didn't need it either because she comes back to life when she dies.
I can't believe people in here are actually defending her rules.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
Moot now anyway. She had to go so Space Marines players could have a Battle Conclave.
1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
Celestine being gone means SoB don't have anything useable in the HQ or Elites slot and also makes 1 of their Fast attack slots dam near pointless.
Sure. But that should not have been the job for a (very!) special character from the start (same with the also once dead Uriah Jacobus).
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
Celestine being gone means SoB don't have anything useable in the HQ or Elites slot and also makes 1 of their Fast attack slots dam near pointless.
Sure. But that should not have been the job for a (very!) special character from the start (same with the also once dead Uriah Jacobus).
I don't get your point. What does her being a special character have to do with anything?
ERJAK wrote: What a gak show. No wonder they told vetnoob off after TL, they knew this book would be crap and couldn't risk people knowing that fact 100% in advance. They're relying on optimism to shift units.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
1. Scatterbikes ID her and have an effective 48" range. I wanted to stop reading there because you listed her as a counter to them for whatever reason.
She's nit fast enough to catch Warp Spiders (they're the same speed except Spiders can run and ID her too!), and Rune Priests get 2+ if you pay for it. Librarians fish for invisibility. Also with experimenting with Cults they don't have any armor anyway for the most part.
Like, seriously, she's not a counter to any of these. None of them are afraid of her, especially the Marines hiding in their transport.
2. Huron and Yarrick do it, one of them striking at I5 AP2 with Shred (and forcing rerolls of successful invulnerable saves), and the other having EW.
3. I read it and I'm saying you should ignore her in the first place. Anything going out of the way to include her is bad list writing. You have Jacobus, or the Cannoness to equip Combi-Weapons on (or just hide her somewhere to avoid giving up STW. Nobody will judge you on that).
So her entry being removed is not problematic whatsoever.
deviantduck wrote: The only reason they would exclude her from the book is because they're setting her up to be a LoW.
The sky isn't falling people.
Or because the mold wore out and they couldn't be bothered to make a new one.
If you're bringing a canoness in an army, that's bad list building, guy one comment above this one. The canoness is sooooo bad that Her->celestine is the single biggest upgrade 70 points can get you in the sisters book. 0->5 battle sisters with a meltagun isn't as big of a swing.
At least celestine had the potential to be useful if you played her carefully, a canoness never is.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
1. Scatterbikes ID her and have an effective 48" range. I wanted to stop reading there because you listed her as a counter to them for whatever reason.
She's nit fast enough to catch Warp Spiders (they're the same speed except Spiders can run and ID her too!), and Rune Priests get 2+ if you pay for it. Librarians fish for invisibility. Also with experimenting with Cults they don't have any armor anyway for the most part.
Like, seriously, she's not a counter to any of these. None of them are afraid of her, especially the Marines hiding in their transport.
2. Huron and Yarrick do it, one of them striking at I5 AP2 with Shred (and forcing rerolls of successful invulnerable saves), and the other having EW.
3. I read it and I'm saying you should ignore her in the first place. Anything going out of the way to include her is bad list writing. You have Jacobus, or the Cannoness to equip Combi-Weapons on (or just hide her somewhere to avoid giving up STW. Nobody will judge you on that).
So her entry being removed is not problematic whatsoever.
Its not problematic to YOU - Perhaps you should consider that other people feel differently - for once - just once in your life,
Seriously - They have remvoed the signature character in the codex in exchnage for Sweet FA - when they are handing out candy to very other recent codex in the shape ofr formations, new rules and the like - why exactly is this situtation beyond your udnerdtanding. Something is LOST - its not a win.
Even if you in your almighty wisdon did not want to use her others did - and now they can;t - so its a LOSS - Do you get it? and Yes I AM pissed off with the situation and you trolling is not helping
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
Celestine being gone means SoB don't have anything useable in the HQ or Elites slot and also makes 1 of their Fast attack slots dam near pointless.
Sure. But that should not have been the job for a (very!) special character from the start (same with the also once dead Uriah Jacobus).
I don't get your point. What does her being a special character have to do with anything?
If you need a special character (especially someone like Celestine who clearly stands out from the rest of the army) to make an army or some regular units viable, then there's something wrong. I rather hope for better options and other (a bit more generic) special characters in the future (i.e. not in this book) than to mourn her loss.
BBAP wrote: At least you can add in a fething Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave to your existing Space Marine army as allies!
... what do you mean you don't have an existing Space Marine army?
So you couldn't do that with any other imperial army?
So Celstine is gone. I don't care (her even more silly BA cousin should be the next). I liked Praxedes and Helena - the (now immortal) Living Saint not so much. The model was nice though (would have been better without the dove and the flowers).
Celestine being gone means SoB don't have anything useable in the HQ or Elites slot and also makes 1 of their Fast attack slots dam near pointless.
Sure. But that should not have been the job for a (very!) special character from the start (same with the also once dead Uriah Jacobus).
I don't get your point. What does her being a special character have to do with anything?
If you need a special character (especially someone like Celestine who clearly stands out from the rest of the army) to make an army or some regular units viable, then there's something wrong. I rather hope for better options and other (a bit more generic) special characters in the future than to mourn her loss.
You're still not making any sense wth does her being a special character have to do with anything? Isn't standing out a good thing for a centerpiece-ish unit? Why is being more generic good? As for units, plenty of units need characters to make them good.
More options would be cool but A) This is it, this is what we got and B) why does celestine have to die for them?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
1. Scatterbikes ID her and have an effective 48" range. I wanted to stop reading there because you listed her as a counter to them for whatever reason.
She's nit fast enough to catch Warp Spiders (they're the same speed except Spiders can run and ID her too!), and Rune Priests get 2+ if you pay for it. Librarians fish for invisibility. Also with experimenting with Cults they don't have any armor anyway for the most part.
Like, seriously, she's not a counter to any of these. None of them are afraid of her, especially the Marines hiding in their transport.
2. Huron and Yarrick do it, one of them striking at I5 AP2 with Shred (and forcing rerolls of successful invulnerable saves), and the other having EW.
3. I read it and I'm saying you should ignore her in the first place. Anything going out of the way to include her is bad list writing. You have Jacobus, or the Cannoness to equip Combi-Weapons on (or just hide her somewhere to avoid giving up STW. Nobody will judge you on that).
So her entry being removed is not problematic whatsoever.
Its not problematic to YOU - Perhaps you should consider that other people feel differently - for once - just once in your life,
Seriously - They have remvoed the signature character in the codex in exchnage for Sweet FA - when they are handing out candy to very other recent codex in the shape ofr formations, new rules and the like - why exactly is this situtation beyond your udnerdtanding. Something is LOST - its not a win.
Even if you in your almighty wisdon did not want to use her others did - and now they can;t - so its a LOSS - Do you get it? and Yes I AM pissed off with the situation and you trolling is not helping
A character was removed, but not a good one.
Now, if Jacobus was removed I'd understand complaints
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
You mean the fake formations from 4chan?
Those were fake? Didnt know that...
He has them in his compilation. I mean these ones:
Sisters of Battle
Ministorum Delegation: Lets you pair a leader with a bodyguard. Must be from Adepta Sororitas faction. Grants both Shield of Faith.
Army of Faith: Improved prayer (Shield of Faith?)
Fury of Angels
Celestians + Seraphim
Seraphim DS without scatter on celestians and can assault with them
Angelic Host
2-5 Seraphim
Seraphim get +1 SOF and friendlies within 12" reroll SOF
Forward Crusade
3-6 Dominions
Half infiltrate on foot, other half outflank in immolator and may choose to come in on the side closest to one of the other squads
Wrath Squadron
3-6 Retributers
AoF also grants Relentless. Flamers gain torrent
The Penitent Host
2-6 Repentia
4+ FNP and AoF grabts fleet and allows a charge from anywhere
Hammer of Wrath
2 Exorcists
Roll 2d6 pick highest, apply to both
Purge Squadron
3-6 Immolators with same weapon
Squadron
Flamers get +1S
HB get Rending
MM get tank Hunter
Emperors Hate - Core
Canoness
Command Squad
Celestian Squad
Battle Sisters
Retributers
Must take immolator
Grants ObSec and double AoF
Crusade of Daughters - Core
20 Battle Sisters
May take 5 special and 5 heavy weapons
AoF - pick Doms or Rets AoF
Hymns of War - Decurion
Reroll WL No AoF test
Stubborn
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those formations are not in the book. You can also see the full table of contents in an image, and none of those formations are in it.(With the exception of the Delegation)
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
1. Scatterbikes ID her and have an effective 48" range. I wanted to stop reading there because you listed her as a counter to them for whatever reason.
She's nit fast enough to catch Warp Spiders (they're the same speed except Spiders can run and ID her too!), and Rune Priests get 2+ if you pay for it. Librarians fish for invisibility. Also with experimenting with Cults they don't have any armor anyway for the most part.
Like, seriously, she's not a counter to any of these. None of them are afraid of her, especially the Marines hiding in their transport.
2. Huron and Yarrick do it, one of them striking at I5 AP2 with Shred (and forcing rerolls of successful invulnerable saves), and the other having EW.
3. I read it and I'm saying you should ignore her in the first place. Anything going out of the way to include her is bad list writing. You have Jacobus, or the Cannoness to equip Combi-Weapons on (or just hide her somewhere to avoid giving up STW. Nobody will judge you on that).
So her entry being removed is not problematic whatsoever.
Its not problematic to YOU - Perhaps you should consider that other people feel differently - for once - just once in your life,
Seriously - They have remvoed the signature character in the codex in exchnage for Sweet FA - when they are handing out candy to very other recent codex in the shape ofr formations, new rules and the like - why exactly is this situtation beyond your udnerdtanding. Something is LOST - its not a win.
Even if you in your almighty wisdon did not want to use her others did - and now they can;t - so its a LOSS - Do you get it? and Yes I AM pissed off with the situation and you trolling is not helping
A character was removed, but not a good one.
Now, if Jacobus was removed I'd understand complaints
Read my Fething post and try and have some kind of understanding for other people that might have differnt opinions and wnats - or is that beyond you? Seriously waht the hell is wrong with you
A character is gone - YES or NO - An option has been remvoed - YES or NO Thats a bad thing - DO YOU GET IT - I am going to bed before you make me really angry
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 1. Whose armor was she ignoring that was important? Anything fast that wants to be in melee will at minimum have a 4++ or 2+. Or will ID her that round.
Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, Marines, Librarians, Rune Priests, Patriarchs, Claw-Morphs (pretty big deal that she gets to strike first here).... etc etc.
2. She gets up once. Big whoop.
One time more than any other character in 40k.
3. She's terrible for the cost because as a whole she does nothing that isn't done better by allies (which really is tarpitting) or just not including her at all so that way you can spam troops and Exorcists.
Gonna repost what I said in my original reply. Maybe you'll read it this time.
I'm not saying she's an auto-include, just saying she's not a bad model for what she costs. Actually two models.
If you're removing Troops or Exorcists to include her, you're doing it wrong.
A character was removed, but not a good one.
Now, if Jacobus was removed I'd understand complaints
Read my Fething post and try and have some kind of understanding for other people that might have differnt opinions and wnats - or is that beyond you? Seriously waht the hell is wrong with you
Part of it is that he clearly has no idea how to play sister's of battle. Jacobus is even more nich than the Canoness. If he had been axed it would have been months before I even noticed.
VN said he'll find out monday if he can post images of the page introducing the Datasheets. Hopefully that can clear up whether units in this book are also considered Faction: Imperial Agents along with their normal factions.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
Jacob has a 12 fearless/counter attack bubble for all friendly models and is a three wound priest with a ld 9 war hymn. He also increases the shield of faith to 5++....
So I have no clue what everyone is on about. I never use the saint, she instant deaths all the time and seraphim never want to be in cc....
ShaneMarsh wrote: VN said he'll find out monday if he can post images of the page introducing the Datasheets. Hopefully that can clear up whether units in this book are also considered Faction: Imperial Agents along with their normal factions.
That's not gonna help Sisters players any. We already had the best transports in that whole book (maybe the valk but flyers aren't great in general so...) and there's really nothing we can add that we couldn't have gotten a superior version of through allies.
Inquisition players might get something out of this book but I can't see grey knights, deathwatch, cult mech, sisters, or the psykana getting anything worth talking about.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
Jacob has a 12 fearless/counter attack bubble for all friendly models and is a three wound priest with a ld 9 war hymn. He also increases the shield of faith to 5++....
So I have no clue what everyone is on about. I never use the saint, she instant deaths all the time and seraphim never want to be in cc....
So counter attack is worthless for sister units smaller than 20, who gives a gak what his ld is when there's a relic that lets the priest auto pass. 5++ only matters on large units. Also he's T3, he has 1 wound I don't care what his profile says.
The fearless is useful but considering he's 100 pts and has nothing to offer but that bubble, which doesn't work if he's in a vehicle so he's not worth it for armies that are transport heavy. Celestine, while easy to ID, is excellent for any kind of allies you can take and can be used by a clever player to get in underneath an opponents notice and make some noise. Jacobus is an underwhelmng buffer.
You never bothered with Celestine, I never bothered with Jacobus. I wouldn't have cared at all if Jacobus went out, you clearly don't care that Celestine did. GW gave you this one on a platter so go away now and stop antagonising people who liked Celestine.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters just got their book printed. That's a good help.
THAT is a great point
No it's not. 1. print rules aren't better than online rules so long as you have some kind of device you can read them on. 2. This isn't a Sisters book. This is some other guy's book they shoved sisters into because Sisters are second class citizens of the imperium and don't even deserve special charactera apparently.
adamsouza wrote: Seriously, even if the Sororitas don't get anything new, at least their rules are finally in print.
I mean, thats something, except i had printed off my E-book years ago, so it does nothing for me.
I'm willing to bet that "revised and updated" means we changed some point costs and weapons options so make the newest rule set more attractive.
They can't change weapon options without new models. As for new point costs doubtful, no one in any of the reviews have mentioned it, but I suppose it's possible.
It'd have to be 5-10 ppm to make any real difference though.
sfshilo wrote: So I have no clue what everyone is on about.
Me either. Everyone's telling me one 3-wound T3 CC model is better than another 3-wound T3 CC model with better wargear that comes back to life when killed.
Jacobus' Fearless bubble allows people to lock your units in close combat, which is where Sisters die fastest, and unlike Celestine he can't kill anything with his little noodle-armed I4 chainsword. I can't see him being useful even for footsloggers.
she instant deaths all the time
I've never seen it happen. It could, if you charge her at the wrong thing or someone's firing lots of S6 at her unit and kicks a wound past her 2+/4++, but if they're shooting that at Celestine they're not shooting it at your transports. Sounds good to me.
Still, I've never seen her IDed any of the times I've seen her in play. Jacobus has a much higher chance to get plonked in one hit and doesn't get back up, but that's okay because he's an Ld9 Priest. I guess.
and seraphim never want to be in cc....
Charge them at the right thing with Celestine hitting at I7 and they don't mind.
Or didn't, since Celestine's gone now.
For the sake of clarity - I'd never take either of them as a first-choice HQ, but I can see more mileage in Celestine than Jacobus.
adamsouza wrote: I'm willing to bet that "revised and updated" means we changed some point costs and weapons options so make the newest rule set more attractive.
I'll take that bet. I reckon they're copy-pasted from the old book.
Except for the unmitigated destructiveness that is the Ecclesiarchal Battle Conclave, which I can now add to my Fists of Medusa deathstar army to pick up Smashfether's slack. Maybe I'll stick Jacobus in there, make it extra-awesome.
I would be happy with a two point reduction throughout and a point reduction on our transports... Losing Celestine sucks but since I don't play tournaments I'm sure my friends will allow me to still use her... Am I dissatisfied with the new codex absolutely, however with the apparent success of the resin model maybe gw will realize that the demand is there and give us our plastic sister's and maybe some SC's with data slates in the box
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh also Celestines 12 inch LD bubble in a pure sisters army is in my opinion more useful than Jacobus fearless... Because I don't have to take Sergeants on my front lines to pas aof
2ppm wouldn't be bad (nearly enough to stick another Immo-mounted squad in at 1850), but I don't see the vehicles coming down in cost. if they drop the Canoness back to 45pts like she used to be, that would be nice.
Me, I think the 10-model minimum for BSS will be back and everything else will remain unchanged.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
Jacob has a 12 fearless/counter attack bubble for all friendly models and is a three wound priest with a ld 9 war hymn. He also increases the shield of faith to 5++....
So I have no clue what everyone is on about. I never use the saint, she instant deaths all the time and seraphim never want to be in cc....
THANK YOU. Celestine is bad and doesn't support the army nearly as much for the cost.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters just got their book printed. That's a good help.
THAT is a great point
No it's not. 1. print rules aren't better than online rules so long as you have some kind of device you can read them on. 2. This isn't a Sisters book. This is some other guy's book they shoved sisters into because Sisters are second class citizens of the imperium and don't even deserve special charactera apparently.
Yes it is.
1. Print is better because you don't need a device.
2. It is the only Sisters book you're going to get.
Yes, Sisters are the proverbial red-headed stepchild, and don't even deserve to be in production at all, but GW said they wouldn't squat anything, so here we are.
Really, for a current, supported army (and make no mistake, Sisters *are* a current, supported army), you have no vaild basis for complaint whatsoever.
When Sisters finally get Squatted, then you can talk.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
Jacob has a 12 fearless/counter attack bubble for all friendly models and is a three wound priest with a ld 9 war hymn. He also increases the shield of faith to 5++....
So I have no clue what everyone is on about. I never use the saint, she instant deaths all the time and seraphim never want to be in cc....
THANK YOU. Celestine is bad and doesn't support the army nearly as much for the cost.
Celestine was fine, jacobus is very niche, a canoness is god-awful. Someone suggested 45 points, I'd still say that's about 20 too high. As for Jacobus he works really well in blob armies but is largely pointless in msu sisters because his aura doesn't work when he's in a transport. Celestine on the other hand can operate solo with careful use of LOS or hopscotch from squad to squad or attach to an allied CQC unit and give it H&R and fearless.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter though as you'll never take Celestine and I'll never take the other two, Imperial agents be damned.
ERJAK wrote: At the end of the day it doesn't matter though as you'll never take Celestine and I'll never take the other two, Imperial agents be damned.
That can be the last word on the gakky HQ choices. Also if an Inquisitor is worth 25pts, the Canoness is at least 35, considering she has WS/BS5 and power armour. She also gets AoF, which would probably be worth 45pts if her AoF wasn't stupid.
Yeah, it'll be a major nerf. That's why I think it'll happen.
Ever the optimist.
At this point the only hopes I have left are; a points reduction for units and/or wargear, a force org slot rework for a couple of units.
The index is roughly in order of HQ-Elite-Troops-FA-HS and by the look of it it's almost exactly the same. The only change looks to be sororitas command squad going to elites(yay...).
At this point the only hopes I have left are; a points reduction for units and/or wargear, a force org slot rework for a couple of units.
Any optimism I had has been squished by the announcement that this Codex replaces the old, shoddy but workable one, because aside from the 5th to 6th transition no SoB update has ever buffed them. I hope I'm wrong, though.
What units are you thinking for FOC reworkings? I'd quite like to see Penitengines become Elite slot MCs. You could make space by moving the Repentia from "Elites" to "Recycle Bin".
If only they had moved the Pen Eng to elite. But yeah, speculating it looks like they may have done away with the No-Force-Org-Slot stuff and moved it into slots. although why do Acros, Crus, DCAs get a page each as well as the Battle Conclave getting a page, when in the 6E dex that all fell under one thing which was the Battle Conclave
Drider wrote: If only they had moved the Pen Eng to elite. But yeah, speculating it looks like they may have done away with the No-Force-Org-Slot stuff and moved it into slots. although why do Acros, Crus, DCAs get a page each as well as the Battle Conclave getting a page, when in the 6E dex that all fell under one thing which was the Battle Conclave
It'd be funny if priests were now just regular HQs. Invalidate 20 pages worth of arguments. Also the battle conclave is a formation now.
Drider wrote: If only they had moved the Pen Eng to elite. But yeah, speculating it looks like they may have done away with the No-Force-Org-Slot stuff and moved it into slots. although why do Acros, Crus, DCAs get a page each as well as the Battle Conclave getting a page, when in the 6E dex that all fell under one thing which was the Battle Conclave
It's because that unit was designed in a team effort by Matt Ward and Robin Cruddace, and thus has Captain Falcon levels of sheer destructive power. I once saw an Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave out-shoot a Riptide - despite the fact they have no ranged weapons. That's how good the Battle Conclave is. So good it seems to have become its own formation, which you can add to your existing Space Marine army to ensure you are never defeated in battle again!
ERJAK wrote: It'd be funny if priests were now just regular HQs. Invalidate 20 pages worth of arguments.
It would be - except the only Priest I have is the Eviscerator-wielding dude from the old Coteaz Retinue boxed set. He looks like a skinny, elderly hobo wearing a potato sack and I refuse to paint him on principle. Meanwhile my BP/CCW Canoness is a centrepiece model I spent six hours painting because I didn't think my Sisters would ever end up being led by a bald alcoholic with a chainsaw.
To me the real bad thing about Celestine being gone is that it removes the center piece of a SoB collection. The idea of an Imperial Saint was great in terms of design (even if the rules weren't excellent). An army without a center piece like that is never going to attact new players or interest. Instead of producing a plastic canoness based on a oudated and frankly pretty horrible art piece (can you be anymore 1991 pinup than that), they would have been more wise to invest on a new model for Saint Celestine. Clearly, this is a big loss for the SoB. At this point they could simply have removed them from production instead of prolonging their agony.
Personally I used Celestine with hand flamer Seraphim as a way to clear blobs. 1 heavy flamer + 4 hand flamer templates (not to mention her volume of attacks on the charge) is one of the best ways to thin large units down quickly. Yes you can argue Dominions with Flamers or (Retributor with Heavy flamers) do the same thing but they lack the mobility of a jump unit. Celestine may not be great at killing dedicated murder machines but she can definitely purge heretics like a boss when used right.
Is she the beat thing ever? Probably not. But she was a reliable workhorse in an army that didn't have a lot of tools to remove large units quickly (a lack of pie plates means the only other option is concentrated bolter fire which frankly usually puts a unit in charge distance which leads to it being overrun by a blob unit easilly). There are replacement options but Dominions (pending potential AoF changes) waste their AoF as it currently only gives Ignores Cover for that build and are better used as an alpha striking melta gun unit to murder important things faster. Retributor fight too much with the awesome of the Exorcist which leaves Celestine and her retinue fitting into a neat little slot better than the other options do. So for those of uae who used her she'll be missed for the foreseeable future.
I doubt we will see any point reductions, or anything besides a copy paste. They didn't even allow LotD to be on the table turn one. Sisters are unscathed in comparison to instant auto lose.
dracpanzer wrote: I doubt we will see any point reductions, or anything besides a copy paste. They didn't even allow LotD to be on the table turn one. Sisters are unscathed in comparison to instant auto lose.
Come on SoB tactical cards......
Wow this book has something to disappoint everyone! Tactical objectives are in the book, tactical cards are not being released with it so proabably won't be coming, welcome to sadness island brother!
10 pages of something called Warriors of the Emperor. I'll bet you a cheese sandwich that's where Celestine is. I'm guessing that also includes Sisters of Silence and the Custodian Guard.
Solis Luna Astrum wrote: 10 pages of something called Warriors of the Emperor. I'll bet you a cheese sandwich that's where Celestine is. I'm guessing that also includes Sisters of Silence and the Custodian Guard.
More likely, that's the fluff section of the book. 1-2 pages of fluff for each of the armies. 10 pages... 9 armies.
Non sisters question here. Do the inquisitors still divide into the 3 Ordos with different war gear for each? I want to know if my venom talon conversion beamer Inquisitor is still valid?
They hinted at plastic sisters, and rumors said this was next year. All this codex is about is consolidating grey knights, sisters, deathwatch, and assassin's into one book for new army lists (before if you allied other forces you were limited to the allies cad or formations.
I'm guessing a new sisters codex will come next year as rumored, along with plastic sisters and a newly sculpted plastic celestine. All this was is a stock elimination tequnique foe the leftover metal sisters, before the release of the plastics.
Raging Heroes has their "Nuns with Guns" armies so I recommend people consider using those instead of paying the stupid prices GW wants for their metal models.
Breotan wrote: Raging Heroes has their "Nuns with Guns" armies so I recommend people consider using those instead of paying the stupid prices GW wants for their metal models.
Raging Heroes models (Other than not being yet available to non-Kickstarter orders) are the same price per model. Do what you want, I guess.
There are also Statuesque Models heads and Dreamforge Eisenkern conversions that look really good. Haven't priced them out, but expect them to run about the same once you've equipped them with bitz and weapons.
I've bought 30 Sisters over the last few months on secondary markets... I'm averaging about $6 per model. I'm expecting to see higher prices in the next few months... and maybe a crash after February. Who knows?
Solis Luna Astrum wrote: 10 pages of something called Warriors of the Emperor. I'll bet you a cheese sandwich that's where Celestine is. I'm guessing that also includes Sisters of Silence and the Custodian Guard.
More likely, that's the fluff section of the book. 1-2 pages of fluff for each of the armies. 10 pages... 9 armies.
Look at the first section 'In the name of the Emperor'. Each of the listed sections is your two pages of fluff for each of the armies. In fact the chapters listed in the first section are in the same order the armies are listed in the book. Consider the possibility that first two pages are not general fluff, but specific to units that literally are the Emperors chosen. That would then fall in order as Warriors of the Emperor is also the first listing of armies, or really units that aren't part of an existing army, like the Guardians and Sisters of Silence. I could see Celestine being moved there as she really is no longer a Sister of Battle but a character granted Sainthood by the Emperor, becoming one of his chosen. This would then allow her to be fielded alone by any army, not just the Sisters. Lots of conjecture I know, but is seems more likely than they just squatted her.
BakAG wrote: Faeit has a compilation of formations and the decurion of sisters.
It actually look very very good... my opinion.
Those are fake.
Jacobus is dog gak. For whoever that guy is. Unless you play blob sisters he's the exact same level of usefulness as a 25 point priest. Celestine was the only Sisters hq that was even close to worth her points. The canoness is exactly the same usefulness as a space marine sergeant and Jacobus needs 20 girls and 3 other priests to be useful.
Jacob has a 12 fearless/counter attack bubble for all friendly models and is a three wound priest with a ld 9 war hymn. He also increases the shield of faith to 5++....
So I have no clue what everyone is on about. I never use the saint, she instant deaths all the time and seraphim never want to be in cc....
THANK YOU. Celestine is bad and doesn't support the army nearly as much for the cost.
Celestine was fine, jacobus is very niche, a canoness is god-awful. Someone suggested 45 points, I'd still say that's about 20 too high. As for Jacobus he works really well in blob armies but is largely pointless in msu sisters because his aura doesn't work when he's in a transport. Celestine on the other hand can operate solo with careful use of LOS or hopscotch from squad to squad or attach to an allied CQC unit and give it H&R and fearless.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter though as you'll never take Celestine and I'll never take the other two, Imperial agents be damned.
The Cannoness opens up a Command Squad at least for more special weapon spam.
Solis Luna Astrum wrote: 10 pages of something called Warriors of the Emperor. I'll bet you a cheese sandwich that's where Celestine is. I'm guessing that also includes Sisters of Silence and the Custodian Guard.
More likely, that's the fluff section of the book. 1-2 pages of fluff for each of the armies. 10 pages... 9 armies.
Look at the first section 'In the name of the Emperor'. Each of the listed sections is your two pages of fluff for each of the armies. In fact the chapters listed in the first section are in the same order the armies are listed in the book. Consider the possibility that first two pages are not general fluff, but specific to units that literally are the Emperors chosen. That would then fall in order as Warriors of the Emperor is also the first listing of armies, or really units that aren't part of an existing army, like the Guardians and Sisters of Silence. I could see Celestine being moved there as she really is no longer a Sister of Battle but a character granted Sainthood by the Emperor, becoming one of his chosen. This would then allow her to be fielded alone by any army, not just the Sisters. Lots of conjecture I know, but is seems more likely than they just squatted her.
455_PWR wrote: They hinted at plastic sisters, and rumors said this was next year. All this codex is about is consolidating grey knights, sisters, deathwatch, and assassin's into one book for new army lists (before if you allied other forces you were limited to the allies cad or formations.
I'm guessing a new sisters codex will come next year as rumored, along with plastic sisters and a newly sculpted plastic celestine. All this was is a stock elimination tequnique foe the leftover metal sisters, before the release of the plastics.
The reason I'm sceptical is I don't think GW typically do a stock elimination like this. They either leave things stagnant and let them sell out naturally OR in more recent times they've done the "Last Chance to Buy" stuff or WHFB's "End Times".
It'd be new levels of dodginess to encourage players to buy old models just before releasing replacements.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters just got their book printed. That's a good help.
THAT is a great point
For the first time since the White Dwarf Codex: SoB in 2011 (5th Ed) GW offers a translation of their rules again. The Inquisition and Legion of the Damned digital only books never got translated either. This may sound like a minor thing, but C: IA sold out (temporarily) in Germany within 24h, so interest and demand for a translation was definately there. Actually the amount of people being unable to play with english rules here is at least 50% if not much more due to players feeling it is too complicated. As a result Sisters of Battle weren't sold and played much during a quite long period. I cannot see this being different in France and Spain and other non-english countries. So people might feel GW is not offering much with this book, but it is cheaper than the other hardcover codices, comes with more pages than C:GSC for example, and unlike Angels of Death there are foreign editions of it too. The german White Dwarf Assassins rules were a much sought after product when the issue sold out - until Warzone Damocles offered them in a constantly available source. The disappointment regarding some rules decisions is understandable, but this book's release has its meaning.
SeanDrake wrote: Ouch so they have invalidated the e-codex and said this is The SoB codex.
Going to guess they will do the same to Inquisition as well, that sucks as you know your in trouble when your lumped in with SoB.
Na not really. The old codex is still for sale. All this the living saint is gone, because the new book completely invalidates the old book stuff is only based on a single careless fb post of the customer service.
When has a book that they still sell ever been invalidated, the recent FAQ's even state that you can use data sheets of the old ones.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: Non sisters question here. Do the inquisitors still divide into the 3 Ordos with different war gear for each? I want to know if my venom talon conversion beamer Inquisitor is still valid?
looking at the content page, I would think they still do. Seeing how they still have the inquisitors from each of the 3 main Ordos
Ok, so I only noticed this thread this morning, and have skimmed to try and catch up.
So, to clarify:
New book 'Imperial Agents' (not 'Imperialis Agentiuminuimin" thank god) coming out on the 17th of Dec. Available in stores and online (pre-orders already up).
$70 in Aus, has rules for multiple 'Imperial' sub-factions, including (almost) all of the SoB rules that are largely unchanged from the digital dex. So far Saints/Celestine conspiciously absent .
Single new SoB model also comming out on the 17th in stores. Online pre-orders already live & already sold out. Stores to only have a limited number on the 17th. $40 Aus.
I am alone in my dedication to the wondertastic Andrea Uderzo sisters. I shall weep a lone, very manly tear that will trickle from my manly eye down to my manly jaw. .
Thanks for the info - so minor formation benefit which is ok.
Do we know if the Ministorum Detachment can be any Elite from the CIA codex or just any elite? Re read it so just AS Elites - seems a bit pointless as they almost all have Invuln saves?
Assassin has Adepta Sororitas faction not generic.
New book 'Imperial Agents' (not 'Imperialis Agentiuminuimin" thank god) coming out on the 17th of Dec. Available in stores and online (pre-orders already up).
$70 in Aus, has rules for multiple 'Imperial' sub-factions, including (almost) all of the SoB rules that are largely unchanged from the digital dex. So far Saints/Celestine conspicuously absent .
Single new SoB model also coming out on the 17th in stores. Online pre-orders already live & already sold out. Stores to only have a limited number on the 17th. $40 Aus.
Is that the basics of it?
Mostly - single new resin SOB model - was in stores now direct only.
Other important elements are that it appears that almost units retain their normal faction so no using transports from other units in the Codex - like say the navy Valkyrie flyers or the Deathwatch flyer cos apparently the Inquisition can't just commandeer them - oh right yeah they can.
That detachment is "OK" I like that it is wordered in such as way as to still allow you to take the Avenger Strike Fighter and other forge world goodies.
Seems like priests might be actual HQ slot taking up HQ's now. So I see a lot of double FOC sisters of battle armies in the future.
Need to see that Battle Conclave entry from P 77 to see if we can still build mixed squads of crusaders and DCA's
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, I suspect that command squads will suck up an elites slot based on were they sit in the index.
Trying to work out what units that would actually benefit from the Min Detachment as its only As Elites? Only those without Invuln. Is that just arco flagerents?
YAY!!! SISTERS GOT A HUGE BUFF!!! Act of Faith now lasts until the end of the TURN!! instead of phase....
Still pretty much useless and points costs are still too high for what you get and taking more sisters in the unit is completely useless as all you get are extra wounds.
Why would I take a squad of 20 Battle Sisters (19 + Superior) if all I can give them is 2 Special Weapons (Storm Bolter, Flamer or Melta) or 1 Special and 1 Heavy (Heavy Boilter/Flamer or Multi-Melta).
WHY ISN'T IT PER 5 MODELS?! If I could have 8 special or 4/4 Special/Heavy in a unit then that would be interesting but 2 or 1/1? If they are to cost 12pts per model which is 3-4pts more than they should be for what you get at least give them some sort of unique benefit, they only have bolters, flamers and melta so why can't they simply take more of them.
Remove the 6++ and lower the points cost by 4pts per model and they'd still be bad. Bah, time to write another letter to GW and try to explain how borderline slowed these pts and options are.
MadCowCrazy wrote: YAY!!! SISTERS GOT A HUGE BUFF!!! Act of Faith now lasts until the end of the TURN!! instead of phase....
Still pretty much useless and points costs are still too high for what you get and taking more sisters in the unit is completely useless as all you get are extra wounds.
Why would I take a squad of 20 Battle Sisters (19 + Superior) if all I can give them is 2 Special Weapons (Storm Bolter, Flamer or Melta) or 1 Special and 1 Heavy (Heavy Boilter/Flamer or Multi-Melta).
WHY ISN'T IT PER 5 MODELS?! If I could have 8 special or 4/4 Special/Heavy in a unit then that would be interesting but 2 or 1/1?
Remove the 6++ and lower the points cost by 4pts per model and they'd still be bad. Bah, time to write another letter to GW and try to explain how borderline slowed these pts and options are.
Bet hey FAQ that of Faith - otherwise might look like the gave the Soroitas some actual benefit.
Hey wow a re-roll of 1's on saves - but you need to take an elite slot - cos they are all awesome
Thanks for the info - so minor formation benefit which is ok.
Do we know if the Ministorum Detachment can be any Elite from the CIA codex or just any elite? Re read it so just AS Elites - seems a bit pointless as they almost all have Invuln saves?
It also gives ad will, so thats not that bad and who knows there might be further releases buffing units with this rule.
My take on the whole thing is that this book is meant to be more of an "ally in a squad of specialists to your existing Imperium army". It's small detachments and lone squads being attached to a larger army for a specific purpose. Special characters were removed because they will be in the codex proper, perhaps? Makes sense to think that every time the Imperium needs some sisters to aid in a fight that Saint Celestine wouldn't be joining them. Obviously I could be way off but I'm just looking at it like a grab bag of allies for the Imperium....a little of each so you can use models that have been sitting around with no purpose. "Got a squad of sisters, a squad of GK Termies, maybe just a group of deathcult assassins or crusaders....? Well, now you can toss them into the fight without needing an entire army of their ilk around them.
I mean, they are called Imperial Agents.....agents usually work in small groups, right? It wouldn't make sense to have armies of agent types. I feel we will be getting a Sisters Codex next year with revamped rules and (hopefully) point costs. This is just a placeholder for those who want to use them as a small ally.
MisterPerkins wrote: My take on the whole thing is that this book is meant to be a more of a "ally in a squad of specialists to your existing Imperium army". It's small detachments and loan squads being attached to a larger army for a specific purpose. Special characters were removed because they will be in the codex proper, perhaps? Makes sense to think that everytime the imperium needs some sisters to aid in a fight that Saint Celestine wouldn't be joining them. Obviously I could be way off but I'm just looking at it like a grab bag of allies for the Imperium....a little of each so you can use models that have been sitting around with no purpose. "Got a squad of sisters, a squad of GK Termies, maybe just a group of deathcult assassins or crusaders....? Well, now you can toss them into the fight without needing an entire army of their ilk around them.
I mean, they are called imperial Agents.....agents usually work in small groups, right? It wouldn't make sense to have armies of agent types. I feel we will be getting a Sisters Codex next year with revamped rules and (hopefully) point costs. This is just a placeholder for those who want to use them as a small ally.
Nah they just could not be bothered to keep making St C and hence deleted her. They could have even given the new canoness decent rules in exchange as a named character - but again they could not be bothered - which pretty much sums up the whole thing.
If they wanted it to operate as you describe they should have just put a few of the AS units in the codex, given all units in the whole codex Faction: Imperial Agents - but again they didn't bother so you still have to ally each different bit of the codex in.
Would it have taken more than 5 minutes to actually come up with a few formations for AS beyond the pile of crap they were given - they could have copied and pasted some of the million Marine ones - but again - they couldn't be bothered.
Would it have taken more than 5 minutes to actually come up with a few formations for AS beyond the pile of crap they were given - they could have copied and pasted some of the million Marine ones - but again - they couldn't be bothered.
Well, here's what adding a new formation to the book involves;
- Make sure it fits in the book - page counts aren't arbitrary; adding new stuff affects binding and price point. You may have to add three new things to justify adding one!
- Come up with an idea for a formation that is justified by both rules and background. Come up with a name you haven't already used for something else.
- Write the rules and background. Go through the copy-editing process for both.
- Playtest the rules.
- Refine wording as needed, copy-edit again.
- Playtest revised version. As formations don't have points in 40K, ensure the unit tax is sufficient to justify its abilities.
- Photograph the miniatures. You might need to get some more painted depending on how extreme the formation's composition is (how many Susters with heavy weapons are in the studio cabinet anyway?).
- Design the page layout. Refine wording again to save space.
- Ensure contents page is now accurate.
- Edit other background to include references to the formation.
- Put together a proposed bundle for the webstore.
- Account for inventory, coding, packaging etc. for the above.
- Add the bundle to the website.
- Add the bundle to the promotional material.
Obviously they could just format it as a single paragraph somewhere and not bother with any of that stuff, but all of the above is how GW present a datasheet currently. The cost is hardly negligible. Obviously many of the steps would be integrated into the overall project plan if it was accounted for from day one, but even then there still has to be a viable return for the investment.
Would it have taken more than 5 minutes to actually come up with a few formations for AS beyond the pile of crap they were given - they could have copied and pasted some of the million Marine ones - but again - they couldn't be bothered.
Well, here's what adding a new formation to the book involves;
- Make sure it fits in the book - page counts aren't arbitrary; adding new stuff affects binding and price point. You may have to add three new things to justify adding one!
- Come up with an idea for a formation that is justified by both rules and background. Come up with a name you haven't already used for something else.
- Write the rules and background. Go through the copy-editing process for both.
- Playtest the rules.
- Refine wording as needed, copy-edit again.
- Playtest revised version. As formations don't have points in 40K, ensure the unit tax is sufficient to justify its abilities.
- Photograph the miniatures. You might need to get some more painted depending on how extreme the formation's composition is (how many Susters with heavy weapons are in the studio cabinet anyway?).
- Design the page layout. Refine wording again to save space.
- Ensure contents page is now accurate.
- Edit other background to include references to the formation.
- Put together a proposed bundle for the webstore.
- Account for inventory, coding, packaging etc. for the above.
- Add the bundle to the website.
- Add the bundle to the promotional material.
Obviously they could just format it as a single paragraph somewhere and not bother with any of that stuff, but all of the above is how GW present a datasheet currently. The cost is hardly negligible. Obviously many of the steps would be integrated into the overall project plan if it was accounted for from day one, but even then there still has to be a viable return for the investment.
Rocks are not free, citizen.
Really - looking at the other formations realeased for the power dexes do you really think they are playtested?
They aready went down the single paragrapgh route and gave a crap formation with exactly none of the above steps except formating.
Thommy H wrote: Well, here's what adding a new formation to the book involves
... but the Vestal Task Force is just a CAD with a compulsory Elites choice and a random Detachment benefit ("pray for salvation"?). I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but I could've come up with "CAD plus mandatory Elites plus reroll 1s to save once per game" in about 5 minutes. I don't think you need to playtest that to know it'll be helpful without making the army very much more powerful than it normally is either.
You can focus on a single step if you like, but you'll need to account for all of them to reduce the overall effort required to five minutes of spitballing.
Thommy H wrote: You can focus on a single step if you like, but you'll need to account for all of them to reduce the overall effort required to five minutes of spitballing.
Make sure it fits in the book - page counts aren't arbitrary; adding new stuff affects binding and price point. You may have to add three new things to justify adding one!
- Come up with an idea for a formation that is justified by both rules and background. Come up with a name you haven't already used for something else. Names and formations as well as images already in Sheild of Baal
- Write the rules and background. Go through the copy-editing process for both. Background written, rules - 5 mins
- Playtest the rules. They don;t bother
- Refine wording as needed, copy-edit again. See above
- Playtest revised version. As formations don't have points in 40K, ensure the unit tax is sufficient to justify its abilities. See above
- Photograph the miniatures. You might need to get some more painted depending on how extreme the formation's composition is (how many Susters with heavy weapons are in the studio cabinet anyway?). Already done
- Design the page layout. Refine wording again to save space. Or just put in a paragraph if they want to be really disinterested - as they seem to be
- Ensure contents page is now accurate. yep - a min
- Edit other background to include references to the formation. See above
- Put together a proposed bundle for the webstore. They are not bothering
- Account for inventory, coding, packaging etc. for the above. see above
- Add the bundle to the website. See above
- Add the bundle to the promotional material. See above
So to make a far superior formation supported in fluff and with imagery - maybe half an hour. To just do what they did already but actually make it worthwhile - 5-10 mins tops =- likely more time than they spent on it - and it shows
Thommy H wrote: If there are already formations in Shield of Baal, what are you complaining about?
URGHH -there are NOT formations - however there is amply background text that can be made into formations - single paragraphs with images. You know the stuff you said they needed,.
Sisters have zero formations outside of CIA Codex.
sfshilo wrote: I play inquisition and sisters already and never use the saint.
You all are trying to start fights and I am just happy to get a a consoldated codex with some new rules.
Sisters did not need much to be more competative, they already did pretty well for them selves.
Really - so other Codexes need formations but Sisters don;t - the Eldar NEEDED their formations, The necrons NEEDED their formations etc. Or are they ok without them ? One rule for some armies and Screw the rest?
Why do Sisters not need theirs?
Re St C - it was a choice to play her or not - choice has been removed.
I'm sad, because I never got to field Celestine in front of a Death Company squad. Oh well.
To repeat a point, Celestine is the type of character that has been made Lord of War in other codices... there weren't any other Lords of War in the book. It's not all doom. 90 point Immolators? That a great blocker for a melta dominion squad in their own Immolator.
Onto the name of the detachment
Vestigial - adj; forming a very small remnant of something that was once much larger or more noticeable
I think that this is either a mean-spirited joke, or a hint that something more is coming.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Complaining about giving money over for something one doesn't think is good enough, but still going to give them the money anyway, perhaps?
Sadly its a loose / loose proposition.
Don't buy - people are not interested in Sisters
Do buy - we can shovel any kind of craop and its all fine.
Thommy H wrote: If there are already formations in Shield of Baal, what are you complaining about?
URGHH -there are NOT formations - however there is amply background text that can be made into formations - single paragraphs with images. You know the stuff you said they needed,.
Sisters have zero formations outside of CIA Codex.
Right, so they do have to create some new material then? Even if it's copied and pasted from another source, there's still additional work to required. Again, the minimum you can add to a book is four pages at a time. It's not a simple case of coming up with an idea and then it magically appears in the book.
Regardless of your opinion on GW's quality control, there's still a process. They have specific photos of formations, for example. They create bespoke page layouts. And writing rules and background isn't as straightforward as you seem to think it is.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Complaining about giving money over for something one doesn't think is good enough, but still going to give them the money anyway, perhaps?
Sadly its a loose / loose proposition.
Don't buy - people are not interested in Sisters
Do buy - we can shovel any kind of craop and its all fine.
I think the interest in sisters is more than covered by the new model selling like it is. They just can't keep it in stock and it's not even out yet.
Well, here's what adding a new formation to the book involves;
- Make sure it fits in the book - page counts aren't arbitrary; adding new stuff affects binding and price point. You may have to add three new things to justify adding one!
- Come up with an idea for a formation that is justified by both rules and background. Come up with a name you haven't already used for something else.
- Write the rules and background. Go through the copy-editing process for both.
Absolutely this is true and standard for any publication.
- Playtest the rules.
- Refine wording as needed, copy-edit again.
- Playtest revised version. As formations don't have points in 40K, ensure the unit tax is sufficient to justify its abilities.
I don't think GW playtests anything and they definitely don't go back and make changes. Case in point the Flash Gitz formation. Nobody in their right mind playtested shooting with a 20 flash gitz unit with master crafted assault 3 guns and thought "yep this plays out just fine and is not a royal pain in the rear to roll for". Not trying to be a jerk but GW is notoriously poor at rules writing and their lack of care in RAW interactions and balance is legendarily bad.
- Photograph the miniatures. You might need to get some more painted depending on how extreme the formation's composition is (how many Susters with heavy weapons are in the studio cabinet anyway?).
- Design the page layout. Refine wording again to save space.
- Ensure contents page is now accurate.
- Edit other background to include references to the formation.
Standard for any entry they create and given the very cut and paste nature of a lot of their books it wouldn't take an extraordinarily long period of time to put it all together. Look at the rules for the looted wagon having a unit composition of 1 Gorkanaut, cyber wolves being T4 in the original 7th edition SW codex, gets hot on volley guns in the MT codex, etc. Quality control for their publications is not extremely precise at GW.
- Put together a proposed bundle for the webstore.
- Account for inventory, coding, packaging etc. for the above.
- Add the bundle to the website.
- Add the bundle to the promotional material.
Most formations don't receive any marketing material or bundles.
Obviously they could just format it as a single paragraph somewhere and not bother with any of that stuff, but all of the above is how GW present a datasheet currently. The cost is hardly negligible. Obviously many of the steps would be integrated into the overall project plan if it was accounted for from day one, but even then there still has to be a viable return for the investment.
Rocks are not free, citizen.
End of the day GW is putting together books that cost a lot of money when compared to other printed media out on the market and the lack of effort they put into some of their printed products is often times staggering. Its not asking for the impossible for GW to actually add new real content to their expensive rule books.
Thommy H wrote: If there are already formations in Shield of Baal, what are you complaining about?
URGHH -there are NOT formations - however there is amply background text that can be made into formations - single paragraphs with images. You know the stuff you said they needed,.
Sisters have zero formations outside of CIA Codex.
Right, so they do have to create some new material then? Even if it's copied and pasted from another source, there's still additional work to required. Again, the minimum you can add to a book is four pages at a time. It's not a simple case of coming up with an idea and then it magically appears in the book.
Regardless of your opinion on GW's quality control, there's still a process. They have specific photos of formations, for example. They create bespoke page layouts. And writing rules and background isn't as straightforward as you seem to think it is.
AS I SAID =- the bare minimum is all they did - they published crap formation in a single a paragrapgh - its ion the fething thread if you have not seen it
no pics, no backgorund., no bundle, sweet FA Dream all you want about playtesting and such but its clear from the actual published rules that this does not happen - not for this codex and not for the Power dexes.
WHAT I SIAD they could do is use the Shield of Baal boks to make a massively superiorversion of the crap they did do.
Thommy H wrote: But it's still not five minutes of extra effort is it?
FFS is that you only point - the exact amount of time taken - well thanks for wasting my time.[u] and yeah it would take about that long - want to get a stopwatch
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Complaining about giving money over for something one doesn't think is good enough, but still going to give them the money anyway, perhaps?
Sadly its a loose / loose proposition.
Don't buy - people are not interested in Sisters
Do buy - we can shovel any kind of craop and its all fine.
Or just DIY and take ownership hobby into your own hands. It only takes 5 mins to do something.
My point is that just banging out an idea is one step on a long process of getting something into print. I'm speaking as an author myself. You can look at any page in a Codex and see that it's a result of more than a single conversation, right? You can see the photography, the design, the reprographics, yeah?
It isn't just a matter of having an idea. There's a cost associated with adding even a single page to a physical publication. They may, quite seriously, just not have had the room at the current price point.
End of the day GW is putting together books that cost a lot of money when compared to other printed media out on the market and the lack of effort they put into some of their printed products is often times staggering. Its not asking for the impossible for GW to actually add new real content to their expensive rule books.
They don't have to, they have a captive audience who will buy on command and then spend their time complaining about it.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sad, because I never got to field Celestine in front of a Death Company squad. Oh well.
To repeat a point, Celestine is the type of character that has been made Lord of War in other codices... there weren't any other Lords of War in the book. It's not all doom. 90 point Immolators? That a great blocker for a melta dominion squad in their own Immolator.
Onto the name of the detachment
Vestigial - adj; forming a very small remnant of something that was once much larger or more noticeable
I think that this is either a mean-spirited joke, or a hint that something more is coming.
Vestal not vestigial.
Also, the detachment is strictly worse than a car. No ob sec.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm sad, because I never got to field Celestine in front of a Death Company squad. Oh well.
To repeat a point, Celestine is the type of character that has been made Lord of War in other codices... there weren't any other Lords of War in the book. It's not all doom. 90 point Immolators? That a great blocker for a melta dominion squad in their own Immolator.
Onto the name of the detachment
Vestigial - adj; forming a very small remnant of something that was once much larger or more noticeable
I think that this is either a mean-spirited joke, or a hint that something more is coming.
Vestal not vestigial.
Also, the detachment is strictly worse than a car. No ob sec.
English fail. Sorry folks.
Vestal - a vestal virgin, relating to the Roman Godess Vesta, or a chaste woman, especially a nun.
Yeah, I agree that the detachment is strictly worse than a CAD. It still gives me hope that a supplement is on the way with a composite detachment, Lord of War Celestine, and plastic kits. Until then, I'm out. Done making mistakes for the day.
As noted previously, Act of Faith lasts until the end of player turn now. If this is the same for others, this could be good for Seraphim or Rets (that's about it) since they have a rule that works in multiple phases.
Vorian wrote: Not only would that be stupid beyond belief, we have confirmation from Atia.
This release is still baffling none the less
Except now shes backpedaling like no tomorrow. As are people on 4chan.
Quite frankly that warhammer tv thing was a spiteful joke. They should just come out and admit it.
Some still hope its February but from what I am hearing its not its AoS related stuff then.
S.Y.
To be fair to the joke it did contain the words "These aren't due out for months" or something to that effect. And we are just now getting Magnus. So just gerd those loins a bit.
Vorian wrote: Not only would that be stupid beyond belief, we have confirmation from Atia.
This release is still baffling none the less
Except now shes backpedaling like no tomorrow. As are people on 4chan.
Quite frankly that warhammer tv thing was a spiteful joke. They should just come out and admit it.
Some still hope its February but from what I am hearing its not its AoS related stuff then.
S.Y.
To be fair to the joke it did contain the words "These aren't due out for months" or something to that effect. And we are just now getting Magnus. So just gerd those loins a bit.
if you have been around for every sisters rumor since 2002 i think i have a right to say GW are just being petty with a resin Sister, and not the plastic ones you dont even see which could be a joke. and knowing GW it is. unless i see proof now i consider them dead. i think its time we face facts.
They said Q1 2017. As far as I know it's always been no ETA Q1 2017. That's all the way out through March. Not having a date doesn't mean it's not happening. This codex existing has nothing to do with the rumor, and people expected plastic sisters way too early just because a rumor was out there.
Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
2002, when GW first announced they were coming on GW's own official website. And then a few years later, when Jes Goodwin said they're '"almost done". Then a few years later again, when another GW core employee said "they're almost done".
Yes, I've been there, too.
There's plenty of reason to doubt given GW's history on the topic. I'm not arguing there should be a particularly large amount of hope and hype for a plastic Sisters release, only trying to be fair to the rumormongers.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
I expected them Feb, but from what im aware of it simply is not true
i dont know what march is, possibly some box but i dont see sisters in a game instead of marines.
They are months away, as of October. Q1 2017 seems reasonable.
People complained forever about GW Not previewing things further than a few weeks, they do a cheeky little nod to something and there's this gnashing at teeth about it
Loads of stuff has been rumoured in plastic for many years - its a game and industry in itself. For people to get angsty and petulant about supposedly having waited many years for something that was only rumoured is a bit.............well.................
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: 15 years? Bit of an overegged pudding there and a bit longer won't hurt, will it?
first rumors of plastic sisters were 2002 its now nearly 2017. okay roughly 15. but still.
the first two months are abadon, some tzeench bits then im hearing feb is more AoS
plastic sisters have always been coming this was just the final nail.
S.Y.
Do you already have an army of sisters?
I do yes. this book will last until 8th which is possibly april . one of there central chars is gone. we get a lackluster reroll once. thats not exactly support its a slap
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
There is more info in the bols and it looks grim. I could be wrong but it appears to be that they have just gutted the henchmen squad and thus the only unit option we had..
Inquisition is Changed: Some interesting changes from GW here. The FAQ question on if Servo Skulls stop GSC ambush is answered by removing Servo Skulls. Let that sink in a bit and think about all the armies that now get their Scout move back and all those Eldar Armies that release their captured Inquisitor. Grenades are staying the same so while it is awesome we lost the Skulls, the Grenades are still pretty nutty. Coteaz stays the same as well – so no changes there. The Acoloyte unit has a major change by losing all the extra Characters like the Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders, etc. They also lost the Psyker unit so no more cheap little single WC batteries that shot out auto hitting Psychic Shrieks. The Space Monkey and Daemon Host are still in but you can only add them to a group if you take the big Inquisition formation that combos everything from Sister options and all the old things into one big unit that no one can leave. Heck this formation even pulls in some other guys based on the type of Inquisitor you take.
I do yes. this book will last until 8th which is possibly april . one of there central chars is gone. we get a lackluster reroll once. thats not exactly support its a slap
oh and no jump packs for canoness, again.
Its TK and brets all over again.
S.Y.
Why you desperate to throw money at GW for more toys, if they are so bad, unsupportive and lackluster?
Warhammer tvs facebook says this book is now the sisters dex. which pretty much points that this book is until 8th, a Sisters book in Feb would last 2 months. at the worst and until aug/ sept at most ( basically until 8th hits )
I'm hearing from a local rep feb is AoS related.
theres new paints but we have already seen the leaked picture of those.
I'm going to say that until GW actually takes this off of their website, C:AS is still an official book. Once GW stops selling it, then you'll have an argument that it's not still an official codex.
Really, really sad about losing the Servo Skulls. They are pretty much my favorite unit. Maybe people will let me get away with using my old Inquisition Codex
I do like the Inquisitors having the ability to take certain types of additional squads depending on type, very fluffy and will be genuinely cool on the tabletop.
I do yes. this book will last until 8th which is possibly april . one of there central chars is gone. we get a lackluster reroll once. thats not exactly support its a slap
oh and no jump packs for canoness, again.
Its TK and brets all over again.
S.Y.
Why you desperate to throw money at GW for more toys, if they are so bad, unsupportive and lackluster?
I am not buying CIA, what made you think i was? I already dont suport their abomination of fantasy.
Sisters would have been my first major purchase in years.
you know if you love GW fine, im just tired of having armies i like die.
I don't play GW games. Don't know why you assume that I love GW. I don't follow your logic or why you are complaining at all.
If you wasn't going to buy it, then why harp on about it? Just let people get on with it and wait for the actual time mentioned (next year) for the stuff you've apparently been waiting 15 years for.
I do yes. this book will last until 8th which is possibly april . one of there central chars is gone. we get a lackluster reroll once. thats not exactly support its a slap
oh and no jump packs for canoness, again.
Its TK and brets all over again.
S.Y.
Why you desperate to throw money at GW for more toys, if they are so bad, unsupportive and lackluster?
I am not buying CIA, what made you think i was? I already dont suport their abomination of fantasy.
Sisters would have been my first major purchase in years.
you know if you love GW fine, im just tired of having armies i like die.
S.Y.
I think you're exaggerating a little. You lost a character which people seemed to ignore most of the time and you got a new option. Comparing it to brets is ridiculous.
Hm, the new henchman squad looks interesting, if restrictive. I like the idea of incorporating GK/SoB/DW units into the squad, but we seem to have lost a lot of flexibility, and, unless techpriests can bring some with them, looks like we've lost servitors, as well as mystics.
A lot of people used and loved Celestine, The Living Saint, and this is ESPECIALLY true of the painting and modding scene-- she was and remains one of the most popular showcase miniatures from GW's lineup. While yes, a lot of people also didn't use her, that doesn't take away from the fact that she was actually pretty popular.
On the Sisters wargear list, can anyone make out the cost of an Eviscerator? Is it still 30pts or is it 25?
Edit: That Inquisitorial warband formation, is it just me or is the only viable one a ordo Malleus one as you get terminators to include in the unit to tank with. Sure you can use Crusaders but 2+ is allot more reliable than 3++. Why do Malleus get terminators and the others only power armor? Of those the Sisters of Battle are the WORST choice because all they are are wounds, T3 wounds at that. I'm sure you can create a pretty nasty death star with this formation though. Perhaps they removed Celestine because if you added her the entire blog would get Hit and Run.
Hit and Run is why you took Celestine. Anyone who says she's useless haven't seen her in a deathstar. Put her and some priests in a unit of SM Bikers with tech priests, apothecaries and psykers in it. You now have a unit with re-rollable 2+ armour saves, inv saves and a 5+ FNP. Unit also has Hit and Run so can jump out of combat quite easily.
reds8n wrote: had --admittedly optimistic -- hopes....? ...daydreams ..?? ... about them allowing Vet. superiors to take an eviscerator once again
The Eviscerator has been an iconic weapon of the Spess Mehrens since 5th Edition. It makes no sense for the Sisters of Battle to get access to it on their squads. I'm not even happy that the Repentia get to use it.
Spoiler:
WINK WINK JokingFace.JPG
Anpu-adom wrote: Yeah, I agree that the detachment is strictly worse than a CAD.
If you're already playing a single CAD it is. You lose ObSec on your BSS, one of the army's main strengths, in exchange for the bland, generic Vestal bonus.
If, however, you're playing multiple CADs, and don't have much ObSec anyway, then you might be able to squeeze in an extra Immo using the Vestal formation. Not much, but it's something.
pretre wrote: As noted previously, Act of Faith lasts until the end of player turn now. If this is the same for others, this could be good for Seraphim or Rets (that's about it) since they have a rule that works in multiple phases.
Seems like a highly situational, very incremental bonus to me. I suppose they're not making us pay for it at least, which is something.
nudibranch wrote: Hm, the new henchman squad looks interesting, if restrictive. I like the idea of incorporating GK/SoB/DW units into the squad, but we seem to have lost a lot of flexibility, and, unless techpriests can bring some with them, looks like we've lost servitors, as well as mystics.
The ability to add GK and or deathwatch with henchmen might just save the book depending on how that formation is written. The loss of our old decent psyker would sure be compensated if we could just add one single pagk's to the unit. The longer I think of it the more it seems like the henchmen squad might be alive and kicking.
I'm saying Sisters will be the next army to be killed off
On what evidence?
Firstly. A sub par replacement of their list. Secondly a miniature that was resin (which I'm sure GW will think it's selling well because of the Blanche connection not because it's the first new SoB figure for 15 years.)
Every other limited figure is plastic, save FW.
Sisters of Silence and Custodes got plastics before sisters. Both extremely minor factions not covered in CIA (at least not that I'm aware)
I'm saying Sisters will be the next army to be killed off
On what evidence?
Firstly. A sub par replacement of their list. Secondly a miniature that was resin (which I'm sure GW will think it's selling well because of the Blanche connection not because it's the first new SoB figure for 15 years.)
Every other limited figure is plastic, save FW.
Sisters of Silence and Custodes got plastics before sisters. Both extremely minor factions not covered in CIA (at least not that I'm aware)
S.Y.
Wasn't the limited edition Praetor resin? Even if not new models do not mean removal. Quite the opposite. Also getting a nerfed codex is hardly indicating you're being removed. Units get nerfed every single codex and this isn't the first time an entire army got worse.
You mean the minor factions that are in 30k? As part of a box set for the next legions to be released? Gee it's like they were nothing to do with 40k and just got rules so people could use them in both games.
Having been a sisters player forever, I'm not surprised by the lack of new content or loss of models. I'll play them the same as I always have and squeeze what good I can from the book as is.
I'm saying Sisters will be the next army to be killed off
On what evidence?
Firstly. A sub par replacement of their list. Secondly a miniature that was resin (which I'm sure GW will think it's selling well because of the Blanche connection not because it's the first new SoB figure for 15 years.)
Every other limited figure is plastic, save FW.
Sisters of Silence and Custodes got plastics before sisters. Both extremely minor factions not covered in CIA (at least not that I'm aware)
S.Y.
Guessing then.
I say they aren't being deleted as the army just had an updated list and new model.
Doomsayers have been saying "squatted!" for longer than GW has been saying "plastic sisters". Sisters are unlikely to be squatted, they fit in with the lore very well in GW's current vision of the lore, and will continue to do so. While I sincerely doubt there will be plastic sisters next year, I also doubt GW will remove the army completely, as well. I pretty much just expect the status quo to continue on with minor changes-- and that expectation has, for over a decade, not proven me wrong.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: I don't play GW games. Don't know why you assume that I love GW. I don't follow your logic or why you are complaining at all.
If you wasn't going to buy it, then why harp on about it? Just let people get on with it and wait for the actual time mentioned (next year) for the stuff you've apparently been waiting 15 years for.
I think I'm allowed to "harp on " considering I would have bought it if it was an upgrade. It is not.
I severely doubt that with the coming of Primarch hammer Sisters will have a top slot in the release schedule.
They won't
nudibranch wrote: Hm, the new henchman squad looks interesting, if restrictive. I like the idea of incorporating GK/SoB/DW units into the squad, but we seem to have lost a lot of flexibility, and, unless techpriests can bring some with them, looks like we've lost servitors, as well as mystics.
The ability to add GK and or deathwatch with henchmen might just save the book depending on how that formation is written.
The loss of our old decent psyker would sure be compensated if we could just add one single pagk's to the unit. The longer I think of it the more it seems like the henchmen squad might be alive and kicking.
First the way that formation is written is amazing.
You can place Any inqusitor into this formation even unique.
This says nothing about any unique inqusitor from this book or anything restrictivre like that.
So take forgeworld inqusitor lok or inqusitor hector Rex and you get both servo skulls back and a great unit.
Various design elements from the Sisters list in C:WH were cherry-picked and given to other factions in 5th Edition. What they couldn't steal for other factions, they nerfed to gak in the WD gak-sheets. These gak-sheets were then largely copy-pasted into the 6th Edition digi-dex. Further character was sucked out of the faction during the transition from the digi-dex to Codex: Imperial Agents. No creative input, no effort, no nothing - just copy, paste, nerf a bit, repeat.
To me, it smells a lot like the GW creative team are just not digging the Sisters at all - they're going through the motions with them, that's all. A lack of interest at GW creative was what did for the Squats. None of this is suggestive of an upwards trajectory for the Sisters of Battle in 40k.
I'm saying Sisters will be the next army to be killed off
On what evidence?
Firstly. A sub par replacement of their list. Secondly a miniature that was resin (which I'm sure GW will think it's selling well because of the Blanche connection not because it's the first new SoB figure for 15 years.)
Every other limited figure is plastic, save FW.
Sisters of Silence and Custodes got plastics before sisters. Both extremely minor factions not covered in CIA (at least not that I'm aware)
S.Y.
Guessing then.
I say they aren't being deleted as the army just had an updated list and new model.
Okay if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I had points that led me to believe otherwise. Considering I've been flat out told their projected date was wrong and even the strongest source says no eta
The figure is more being connected to Blanche than to lead up to sisters hype ( you know the rumour engine this week would have been a great time to leak a picture for the supposed plastic sisters) they didn't.
I couldn't care less for those servo skulls ; ) They are the reason tournament players abuse my codex, and to be honest they are nearly useless in most casual games.
I do however care a lot for things like my inquisitor ( and thus my T3 warlord) no longer being able to leave his unit, or if somehow the henchmen squad no longer works the way it used to do.
Various design elements from the Sisters list in C:WH were cherry-picked and given to other factions in 5th Edition. What they couldn't steal for other factions, they nerfed to gak in the WD gak-sheets. These gak-sheets were then largely copy-pasted into the 6th Edition digi-dex. Further character was sucked out of the faction during the transition from the digi-dex to Codex: Imperial Agents. No creative input, no effort, no nothing - just copy, paste, nerf a bit, repeat.
To me, it smells a lot like the GW creative team are just not digging the Sisters at all - they're going through the motions with them, that's all. A lack of interest at GW creative was what did for the Squats. None of this is suggestive of an upwards trajectory for the Sisters of Battle in 40k.
You can go on about lack of interest with so many factions....
Melissia wrote: A lot of people used and loved Celestine, The Living Saint, and this is ESPECIALLY true of the painting and modding scene-- she was and remains one of the most popular showcase miniatures from GW's lineup. While yes, a lot of people also didn't use her, that doesn't take away from the fact that she was actually pretty popular.
A lot of people didn't use her
Actually pretty popular
You get one.
While losing Servo Skulls isn't great, it definitely hurts Eldar lists that took 50 points out of their list to ensure you couldn't get anywhere near their bikes. It is a blessing in disguise.
False dichotomy. If, say, a third of players used Celestine, then it is true that she was pretty popular, AND it is true that a lot of people didn't use her.
Melissia wrote: A lot of people used and loved Celestine, The Living Saint, and this is ESPECIALLY true of the painting and modding scene-- she was and remains one of the most popular showcase miniatures from GW's lineup. While yes, a lot of people also didn't use her, that doesn't take away from the fact that she was actually pretty popular.
A lot of people didn't use her
Actually pretty popular
You get one.
While losing Servo Skulls isn't great, it definitely hurts Eldar lists that took 50 points out of their list to ensure you couldn't get anywhere near their bikes. It is a blessing in disguise.
It's just stupid to remove a model for no reason that players use. They made this same bad decision with Imperial Guard as well. It takes no effort on their part to keep Celestine in the book.
oldzoggy wrote: I couldn't care less for those servo skulls ; )
They are the reason tournament players abuse my codex, and to be honest they are nearly useless in most casual games.
I do however care a lot for things like my inquisitor ( and thus my T3 warlord) no longer being able to leave his unit, or if somehow the henchmen squad no longer works the way it used to do.
Where do you see that an inquisitor can't leave his unit. Its just the former henchmen parts that need to be in the same unit when taking the special inquisition formation
To me, it smells a lot like the GW creative team are just not digging the Sisters at all - they're going through the motions with them, that's all. A lack of interest at GW creative was what did for the Squats. None of this is suggestive of an upwards trajectory for the Sisters of Battle in 40k.
Don't blame them, judging by this thread and the spoilt attitude of the fanbase.
When is something going to be released then? I'd be curious to see these plastics, see if they are any use for Antares or in Rogue Stars.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
No one is failing to grasp that.... it's just them pushing old metal Sisters in a new release reducing the chance of plastic Sisters in the near future.
oldzoggy wrote: I couldn't care less for those servo skulls ; )
They are the reason tournament players abuse my codex, and to be honest they are nearly useless in most casual games.
I do however care a lot for things like my inquisitor ( and thus my T3 warlord) no longer being able to leave his unit, or if somehow the henchmen squad no longer works the way it used to do.
Where do you see that an inquisitor can't leave his unit. Its just the former henchmen parts that need to be in the same unit when taking the special inquisition formation
it all depends on the wording it might be that the inq has to be part of the unit or that no model can leave and join it.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
No one is failing to grasp that.... it's just them pushing old metal Sisters in a new release reducing the chance of plastic Sisters in the near future.
It doesn't, does it? It just means GW can sell some of what they already have before replacing it with the new.
Vorian wrote: Not only would that be stupid beyond belief, we have confirmation from Atia.
This release is still baffling none the less
Except now shes backpedaling like no tomorrow. As are people on 4chan.
Quite frankly that warhammer tv thing was a spiteful joke. They should just come out and admit it.
Some still hope its February but from what I am hearing its not its AoS related stuff then.
S.Y.
Quote or link to this backpeddling?
Automatically Appended Next Post: For Atia not 4chan
its attached
sorry for the obnoxious parts but its direct from a 4chan thread.
you can read it two ways but its obvious to those who know gw sisters are now just waiting for 8th to be written off
S.Y.
I see no back peddling, I see someone trying to get Atia to commit to a time frame or date and we already know that she will not and can not do that.
She did not change and say "well I may have been misinformed". She is still a believer.
Vorian wrote: "There should be more plastic sisters on the way" is backpedaling?
lol and that was my question to her. So no backpedaling then.
From yes to should but no eta IS going back.
S.Y.
Her previous statement on Sisters:
PENDING Sisters Rumors - October 2016 Someguy: Wait, they weren't joking when they talked about Sisters of Battle? Atia: Nope
edit: Do a bit of research before making definitive statements. Unless you happen to have a link to her saying something different, in which case I would love to see it so I can update the tracker.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
No one is failing to grasp that.... it's just them pushing old metal Sisters in a new release reducing the chance of plastic Sisters in the near future.
By saying that 'A' must affect 'B', then you are in fact falling into the trap of connecting the two. And it isn't clear at all that this is the case.
Turn it around -- would it be "better" for GW to release this book and have no Sisters model support accompanying it?
Vorian wrote: "There should be more plastic sisters on the way" is backpedaling?
lol and that was my question to her. So no backpedaling then.
From yes to should but no eta IS going back.
S.Y.
Her previous statement on Sisters:
PENDING Sisters Rumors - October 2016
Someguy: Wait, they weren't joking when they talked about Sisters of Battle?
Atia: Nope
That could mean anything. Technically the canoness is new, so if push came to shove she could point to it.
I'm sure she said yes but as you track these things okay fine. She said they weren't joking. Which basically meant yes correct?. Now it's oh no time frame, hedging bets? Misinformed?
It's damage control.
oldzoggy wrote: I couldn't care less for those servo skulls ; )
+1
Remember when they used to just be Henchmen that gave you an extra psychic power slot?
pm713 wrote: You can go on about lack of interest with so many factions....
Go on then. Show, don't tell, and all that.
Lots of other armies have been slow to update, but GW's lack of interest in Sisters is pernicious rather than lazy. Tyranids are largely in the same boat - two armies that'll never get deleted from the roster, just ignored and copy-pasted into irrelevance
There's your problem. People want plastic Sisters of Battle, not plastic "female sci fi troopers in generic heavy armour". They're nice sculpts but Sisters they ain't, and considering people want plastic Sisters for convenience reasons I'm not sure their convertability is particularly relevant. There's a Russia-cast company that makes really good plastic Sisters too, so conversion is unecessary.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Don't blame them, judging by this thread and the spoilt attitude of the fanbase.
Make the effort or I'll stop buying your gak. Not sure how I see that's "spoiled". Projecting, maybe?
It is becoming ever more clear (if that was possible) that there is no one at GW who is invested or even slightly interested is Sisters! This C:IA is... what is the exact opposite of inspiring? Uninspiring doesn't cut it! And what really boggles the mind is that they could have done so much by doing so little.
As an experiment, let us see what I could come up with while writing? I will simply write what pops in to mind, and thus I won't cover all units.
Overall army change. All (unless otherwise stated) SoB infantry -1ppm reduction in order to balance the power creep of other dexes.
Faith. A return to the old faith system. We could even keep the current acts (just to keep things simple), but each unit with the Shield of Faith-special rule adds one faith point to a pool. These are spent as the player chooses to enact acts of faith. Each unit killed becomes a martyr and adds a faith point. Makes the faith system a bit more tactical. A simulacrum gives the unit a re-roll to the ld-test.
Canoness: -5p, gets the option for jump packs back. Otherwise stays the same, but gets the special rule: “Defender of the Faith” – When a Canoness joins another unit with the SoF-special rule, the 6++ improves to a 5++ (including the Canoness herself). Power weapon for 5p, not 15. She has strength 3!
Priests and Battle conclave: Keep as is.
Repentias: -1ppm, Move through cover. If joined by a Priest, the Priest gains the Defender of Faith-special rule.
Basic Sisters: -1ppm, Superiors gets option for Eviscerator.
Seraphims: -1ppm, Superiors gets option for Eviscerator. Superior gets option for a Single hand flamer or Inferno pistol. Re-rolls Hit and run.
Dominions: -1ppm, If armed with flamer, act of faith gives Shred instead of Ignores cover.
Celestians: -1ppm, No idea how to make this a better unit? 5p power weapons?
Retributor: -1ppm, Otherwise stays the same (better with new [old] faith system).
And now my brain went into overdrive. What would give our army an even more unique feel AND would be easy and cost efficient for GW to produce as a single box with an upgrade sprue. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the extended Immolator family! First of, the:
Immolator: -5p, comes with TL-Heavy bolters, can be changed into Heavy flamers for free or upgraded to a Multi melta for 5p.
Aggressor: -10p, Transport capacity: six models, NO weapons (to make room for the assault ramp), assault vehicle, extra armour, frag assault launcher, fast. No fire points. 12/11/10.
Dominatrix: -10p,Transport capacity: six models, comes with a Storm bolter that can be changed into a Flamer for free, or upgraded to a Melta gun for 5p, extra armour, “Cupola – up to four models may fire from the raised dome of the vehicle.” “Rumbling pillbox-Special rule = The vehicle gains the Heavy special rule and any unit it transports gains the Relentless-special rule. 13/12/11.
This took me... what, 20 minutes? Did anyone at GW spend even this much time? Did anyone spend any effort? Did anyone care? I don't think it would make Sisters over powered and it would have been a nice, gentle boost to combat the monstrosities that are Eldar, SM and Necrons. Whatever formations and stuff we could have had, that is another story and would have taken too long to think about.
What do you people of Dakka think? Wouldn't you rather have seen this instead of the mediocre misfortune that is C:IA?
That could mean anything. Technically the canoness is new, so if push came to shove she could point to it.
I'm sure she said yes but as you track these things okay fine. She said they weren't joking. Which basically meant yes correct?. Now it's oh no time frame, hedging bets? Misinformed?
It's damage control.
Unless I see sprues then ill take it as read.
S.Y.
I think it is clear that she never gave a timeframe or details, simply that they were not joking. That being said, if you want to discuss Atia's record or any specific track, we can take it to the Ongoing Rumor accuracy thread which is linked in my sig and stop polluting this one.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: It doesn't, does it? It just means GW can sell some of what they already have before replacing it with the new.
Didn't stop them from making new tacticals, devs, and assault marine kits. Didn't stop them from making new crisis suits.
All were consistently good sellers with a reasonably good kits (the crisis suit was worst by far, to be fair...) and they all transitioned to even better kits while sisters players were convinced their plastics were finally just about to be announced at last.
So Ordo Malleus with Grey Knight Terminators and Death Cult Assasins? Seems I found my CC unit for my army. Termies seem better than Crusaders.
Ordo xenos with monkeys and Deathwatch that's my long range now.
What to combo with the Sisters?
DC assassins for more Immolator spam, plus Exorcists plus still more Immolator? If the psyocculus is still a thing, plug it into an Inquisitor and plug that Inquisitor into something with range and murderous damage. Throw in priests and spam arco-flagellants for that authentic witch hunters feel.
Agusto wrote: As an experiment, let us see what I could come up with while writing? I will simply write what pops in to mind, and thus I won't cover all units.
It's been tried before, but because the world is full of ego-boos this kind of fandex stuff rarely flies for long. There are already some really good Sisters fan-dexes kicking about, but if it's not rubber-stamped by GW nobody cares.
Alternatively the Psykers are a useful if unfluffy option. Something with consistent anti-air would cover what many consider a glaring weakness the Sisters have.
To me, it smells a lot like the GW creative team are just not digging the Sisters at all - they're going through the motions with them, that's all. A lack of interest at GW creative was what did for the Squats. None of this is suggestive of an upwards trajectory for the Sisters of Battle in 40k.
Don't blame them, judging by this thread and the spoilt attitude of the fanbase.
When is something going to be released then? I'd be curious to see these plastics, see if they are any use for Antares or in Rogue Stars.
Yeah, we're SOOOOO spoilt, not getting a single new model in over a decade, getting 1 pathetic cast off while our codex gets butchered. There's whining and then there's being devestated by disappointment and abuse. If you can't tell the difference just go away.
JimOnMars wrote: So...if the sisters codex is invalidated, and yet it is still for sale, does that mean that GW is committing fraud?
No? How's that fraud?
It'd be fraud only if they stated the old digital was mandatory or the most up to date codex. Even then it borders more on crappy business practices than actual fraud.
JimOnMars wrote: So...if the sisters codex is invalidated, and yet it is still for sale, does that mean that GW is committing fraud?
No? How's that fraud?
Wow, I hadn't noticed that they had updated their web page:
The rules in this eBook are also available in Codex: Imperial Agents, fully revised and updated along with new detachments plus rules for adding even more servants of the Emperor to your army.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
No one is failing to grasp that.... it's just them pushing old metal Sisters in a new release reducing the chance of plastic Sisters in the near future.
It doesn't, does it? It just means GW can sell some of what they already have before replacing it with the new.
It's not really something GW typically do, they don't usually push old models shortly before replacing them except I think during End Times, even then I'm not sure they really "pushed" the models they killed like TK and Brets like they currently are with Sisters.
When GW replaces model, they tend to go dark on the old models, stop producing them and let them sell out naturally. In recent times they've had "Last Chance To Buy" and "Made to Order" before killing off ranges which is nice.
But this release reduces my confidence in plastic Sisters in the near future because it's not something I'd expect GW to do.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, while I don't really expect much at this point, let's be fair-- the rumors said the first few months of 2017, not in December. So if they ARE true it's not happening this year anyway.
That fact seems to be something people aren't grasping. They want them HERE and NOW after waiting since 2001 (apparently)
Yeah, what's painfully obvious and yet seems to be missed by certain people here is that this release isn't a 'Sisters release'. It's for 'Imperial Agents,' just as it says on the cover. And because of how it handles GKs, etc., it's very clear that it doesn't invalidate the possibility of a legit Sisters release down the road.
No one is failing to grasp that.... it's just them pushing old metal Sisters in a new release reducing the chance of plastic Sisters in the near future.
By saying that 'A' must affect 'B', then you are in fact falling into the trap of connecting the two. And it isn't clear at all that this is the case.
I never said it was clear, I said "reducing the chance".
All we are doing is weighing up the evidence...
1. Offhand remark on WHTV about plastic Sisters. 2. Some rumours of plastic Sisters. 3. GW pushing old metal Sisters in a new release.
The first two obviously increase the likelihood of plastic Sisters, the last one reduces it.
Turn it around -- would it be "better" for GW to release this book and have no Sisters model support accompanying it?
I think if GW were likely to be replacing Sisters in the near future, I'd expect to see nothing. I'd expect them to not be included in this book at all. I think it's poor planning for this book to come out just before plastic Sisters instead of just after them.
GW do suck at planning, but as I said, it reduces my confidence that plastic Sisters are around the corner.
ShaneMarsh wrote: Question: If I use the Inq Warband and I get a Battle Sister Squad, can I buy an Immo for hat squad? It is in the squad options and all.
You could, but they wouldn't be able to ride in it. There's only enough room in an Immo for the 5-model squad and an IC, so the unit of Acolytes forces them out of it. Least that's how it looks from here.
Plastic Sisters aren't coming. January will be more chaos gak, then february switches to Sigmar then marines->chaos->xenos->back to sigmar. They haven't even started work on new models and aren't going to.
ERJAK wrote: Plastic Sisters aren't coming. January will be more chaos gak, then february switches to Sigmar then marines->chaos->xenos->back to sigmar. They haven't even started work on new models and aren't going to.
While that does seem properly bitter and cynical-- I salute you-- it isn't actually a confirmed thing yet and is merely conjecture. When they release the actual shipping schedules for Q1 similar to the ones we saw that confirmed the new canoness mini, then we'll have final word.
Melissia wrote: While that does seem properly bitter and cynical-- I salute you-- it isn't actually a confirmed thing yet and is merely conjecture. When they release the actual shipping schedules for Q1 similar to the ones we saw that confirmed the new canoness mini, then we'll have final word.
There's been a guy on faeit in the comments who been saying that he's spoken with people in the design studio who's told him that no one has even started on Sisters and that it'd be 2-3 years if they got going right now. I dismissed it before this abomination happened but now it's making more and more sense.
Melissia wrote: While that does seem properly bitter and cynical-- I salute you-- it isn't actually a confirmed thing yet and is merely conjecture. When they release the actual shipping schedules for Q1 similar to the ones we saw that confirmed the new canoness mini, then we'll have final word.
There's been a guy on faeit in the comments who been saying that he's spoken with people in the design studio who's told him that no one has even started on Sisters and that it'd be 2-3 years if they got going right now. I dismissed it before this abomination happened but now it's making more and more sense.
Maybe if it was a credible source...but so far it's literally nothing compared to a very credible source. Yet you believe them more...
Oh and warhammer's facebook responded to a question about the dust bin video being a joke with 'do you believe everything you hear from inside a dust bin!?' Clearly tone-deaf to the tone of the discussion.
StupidYellow wrote: Quite frankly that warhammer tv thing was a spiteful joke. They should just come out and admit it.[
What did they do?
They said that there was a Sisters of Battle sprue in the bin and that it wouldn't be out for a few months.
That is *not* what they said. At no point did GW ever say anything close to that. What you have is a lot of wishful thinking.
They showed a trash can,
One voice goes "what's this, these aren't coming out for months."
Another voice asks, incredulously "Sisters of Battle?"
Fade to black.
It was obviously in jest, and VERY FUNNY, and would have been better punctuated with a rimshot before the close. Or maybe Porky Pig popping up afterward.
But we all know how good Sisters players are taking a joke...
At no point did GW ever promise Sisters of Battle plastics.
Immediately afterward, we did get Sisters of Silence in the BoP box, and that is the most obvious "Sisters" connection.
As for people rumoring for the Sisters Codex, welp, here it is! Enjoy!
Melissia wrote: While that does seem properly bitter and cynical-- I salute you-- it isn't actually a confirmed thing yet and is merely conjecture. When they release the actual shipping schedules for Q1 similar to the ones we saw that confirmed the new canoness mini, then we'll have final word.
There's been a guy on faeit in the comments who been saying that he's spoken with people in the design studio who's told him that no one has even started on Sisters and that it'd be 2-3 years if they got going right now. I dismissed it before this abomination happened but now it's making more and more sense.
Maybe if it was a credible source...but so far it's literally nothing compared to a very credible source. Yet you believe them more...
It' s not about believing or not believing, so much as probability. Evidence is stacking up against the Sisters just as quickly as it was stacking up FOR them before.
Look, I want to be wrong here, I really do, and I would happily take whatever abuse I deserve if so but it's looking worse and worse by the hour.
I want to add something on the very post that this picture comes from somebody directly asks if they mean the canoness or other plastic sisters In the video.
They respond by saying do you believe everything you hear in /from a bin
I think that's basically conformation of no plastic sisters
Melissia wrote: While that does seem properly bitter and cynical-- I salute you-- it isn't actually a confirmed thing yet and is merely conjecture. When they release the actual shipping schedules for Q1 similar to the ones we saw that confirmed the new canoness mini, then we'll have final word.
There's been a guy on faeit in the comments who been saying that he's spoken with people in the design studio who's told him that no one has even started on Sisters and that it'd be 2-3 years if they got going right now. I dismissed it before this abomination happened but now it's making more and more sense.
Maybe if it was a credible source...but so far it's literally nothing compared to a very credible source. Yet you believe them more...
It' s not about believing or not believing, so much as probability. Evidence is stacking up against the Sisters just as quickly as it was stacking up FOR them before.
Look, I want to be wrong here, I really do, and I would happily take whatever abuse I deserve if so but it's looking worse and worse by the hour.
Nothing is stacking up at all. The rumour was Q1 2017. It's not even 2017 and you're all going ballistic over every little thing, calling all the rumours wrong and spelling out the doom for SoB. Maybe...I dunno..wait for 2017?
ShaneMarsh wrote: Question: If I use the Inq Warband and I get a Battle Sister Squad, can I buy an Immo for hat squad? It is in the squad options and all.
You could, but they wouldn't be able to ride in it. There's only enough room in an Immo for the 5-model squad and an IC, so the unit of Acolytes forces them out of it. Least that's how it looks from here.
Wasn't the question "can the sisters buy an Immolator as their DT and board it"? That'd be a "Yes". I'd say it's obvious you can't cram 7+ models inside of one transport with a capacity of 6, nor can you cram 2 different units inside of the same transport without at least all but one unit being ICs or there being some kind of special rule allowing it anyway.
nekooni wrote: Wasn't the question "can the sisters buy an Immolator as their DT and board it"? That'd be a "Yes".
Now the next question becomes "why would you do that?", to which the response must necessarily be "because I want to have an empty Immolator rolling around the table while my BSS, Acolytes and not-Warlord bimble around in the backfield trying to shoot stuff with Meltaguns".
So to rephrase my original response - yes you can, but if they can't ride in it then why would you bother?
nekooni wrote: Wasn't the question "can the sisters buy an Immolator as their DT and board it"? That'd be a "Yes".
Now the next question becomes "why would you do that?", to which the response must necessarily be "because I want to have an empty Immolator rolling around the table while my BSS, Acolytes and not-Warlord bimble around in the backfield trying to shoot stuff with Meltaguns".
So to rephrase my original response - yes you can, but if they can't ride in it then why would you bother?
Why can't a Squad of Sisters board an Immolator? Enlighten me, please.
False dichotomy. If, say, a third of players used Celestine, then it is true that she was pretty popular, AND it is true that a lot of people didn't use her.
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