dan2026 wrote: TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
This marries up with the rumour of the plastic Cannoness in December. I can see this being a redo of the Witch Hunters dex, with the Sisters being the primary faction with backup from some smaller factions. Finally...
So will we get new rules or are they just combining the Assassins, Inquisition and Sisters books into one book and throwing in Custodes and Silent Sisters to make a jumbled mess?
Loopstah wrote: So will we get new rules or are they just combining the Assassins, Inquisition and Sisters books into one book and throwing in Custodes and Silent Sisters to make a jumbled mess?
Considering this was only announced like 15 minutes ago, there's no answer yet. I imagine because it's got other factions mentioned, that it will be a rewrite.
Loopstah wrote: So will we get new rules or are they just combining the Assassins, Inquisition and Sisters books into one book and throwing in Custodes and Silent Sisters to make a jumbled mess?
Lets hope the assassins see a revision. Outside of the culexus, the other 3 assassins desperately need buffs.
I'm curious how will this actually work, because as of now, any Imperial faction could just pretty much just add a formation (cough, Psykana Division, cough), a single unit (assassins) or just allied detachment (Inquisition).
I don't understand the Imperial Agents part. With the Armies of the Imperium in the allies section, every Imperial unit can be played just fine with every other Imperial unit. Is this just making it easier to include single units from another codex, like letting them be part of a CAD? What are we looking forward to here?
Maybe this is providing a rules update to all the odds and ends of the Imperium, but then referencing Deathwatch wouldn't make any sense because they just had a release. I don't understand...
Quarterdime wrote: I don't understand the Imperial Agents part. With the Armies of the Imperium in the allies section, every Imperial unit can be played just fine with every other Imperial unit. Is this just making it easier to include single units from another codex, like letting them be part of a CAD? What are we looking forward to here?
Maybe this is providing a rules update to all the odds and ends of the Imperium, but then referencing Deathwatch wouldn't make any sense because they just had a release. I don't understand...
If they did it would create some fun flexibility in armies that could stand to bolster each-other. Adding Dreadknights, to Exorcists, etc... might create one army book that legitimately has good choices in every slot.
Maybe this is providing a rules update to all the odds and ends of the Imperium, but then referencing Deathwatch wouldn't make any sense because they just had a release. I don't understand...
Maybe the Deathwatch FAQ was so substantial, they just wanted a do over. They have taken a pretty long time on it. I would hope at the very least that whatever ends up being in the FAQ makes it into this book.
It has been a long and dark decade in the wilderness. Over 9 years since the Great Betrayal that saw the Legions rendered down to nothing but a paint job. We have spent an untold amount of days listening to the laughter of thirsty morons, with their cries of "counts as" and "the Legions are all broken up and shouldn't have rules" as they lap up the endless attention the Loyalists get, not just in rules but in miniature releases as well.
We still don't have plastic Oblits. We still don't have plastic heavy weapons. Most of our HQ's are resin. When they last gave us vehicles we got Dinobots and Hellturkeys. And as much as I like the kit, our basic infantry haven't really been updated in over 10 years (meanwhile the Blood Angels get their own special Tac Squad, even though they don't differ from regular Tac Squads, and all the loyalists got conversion kits on top of their special squads).
But no more! After such a long time listening to people tell us why we couldn't have what Forge World clearly proved what could be done with Legion rules, the time has time come.
Come for what, you ask?
VINDICATION!
Rue this day, all'a y'all who said Traitor Legions shouldn't get rules. Rue it hard!
It has been a long and dark decade in the wilderness. Over 9 years since the Great Betrayal that saw the Legions rendered down to nothing but a paint job. We have spent an untold amount of days listening to the laughter of thirsty morons, with their cries of "counts as" and "the Legions are all broken up and shouldn't have rules" as they lap up the endless attention the Loyalists get, not just in rules but in miniature releases as well.
We still don't have plastic Oblits. We still don't have plastic heavy weapons. Most of our HQ's are resin. When they last gave us vehicles we got Dinobots and Hellturkeys. And as much as I like the kit, our basic infantry haven't really been updated in over 10 years (meanwhile the Blood Angels get their own special Tac Squad, even though they don't differ from regular Tac Squads, and all the loyalists got conversion kits on top of their special squads).
But no more! After such a long time listening to people tell us why we couldn't have what Forge World clearly proved what could be done with Legion rules, the time has time come.
Come for what, you ask?
VINDICATION!
Rue this day, all'a y'all who said Traitor Legions shouldn't get rules. Rue it hard!
While this is great, now chaos have yet another book needed to play
While this is great, now chaos have yet another book needed to play
Depends on how the 9 Detachments/Traits/Etc are styled.
I personally loathe Traitor's Hate. It's no benefit to my 40k Death Guard whatsoever - the formations are all bloated with things I'm not likely to take or just don't fit into the Death Guard fluff (bikes or raptors? Really?). I'll use it for my generic 30k Death Guard if I decide to use them as generic CSM but....yeah, didn't impress me too much.
Now hopefully there's a nice solid detachment that will give me some love for sticking to my lore, not going 'ZOMG DINOBOTS' which make no sense in a Death Guard force based by the fluff and not deciding I needed Hellturkeys or Bikespam in an infantry based force.
It has been a long and dark decade in the wilderness. Over 9 years since the Great Betrayal that saw the Legions rendered down to nothing but a paint job. We have spent an untold amount of days listening to the laughter of thirsty morons, with their cries of "counts as" and "the Legions are all broken up and shouldn't have rules" as they lap up the endless attention the Loyalists get, not just in rules but in miniature releases as well.
We still don't have plastic Oblits. We still don't have plastic heavy weapons. Most of our HQ's are resin. When they last gave us vehicles we got Dinobots and Hellturkeys. And as much as I like the kit, our basic infantry haven't really been updated in over 10 years (meanwhile the Blood Angels get their own special Tac Squad, even though they don't differ from regular Tac Squads, and all the loyalists got conversion kits on top of their special squads).
But no more! After such a long time listening to people tell us why we couldn't have what Forge World clearly proved what could be done with Legion rules, the time has time come.
Come for what, you ask?
VINDICATION!
Rue this day, all'a y'all who said Traitor Legions shouldn't get rules. Rue it hard!
While this is great, now chaos have yet another book needed to play
So many questions......Is the Thousand stuff that will be in Wrath of Magnus be in this? If so, what about the new units, will they be in this? would we have to use the same powers from the old CSM dex, will we get new ones? will the TH powers be put in traitor legions?
pepsuber wrote: So many questions......Is the Thousand stuff that will be in Wrath of Magnus be in this? If so, what about the new units, will they be in this? would we have to use the same powers from the old CSM dex, will we get new ones? will the TH powers be put in traitor legions?
In our haste to get our hands on these new book, lets just remember that GW has only delivered on 1 of 7 supplements (Deamonkin)in the last 3 years. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
heybiff wrote: In our haste to get our hands on these new book, lets just remember that GW has only delivered on 1 of 7 supplements (Deamonkin)in the last 3 years. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Khorne Daemonkin is a full codex. It is not a supplement like Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter.
So they're reprinting the e codex as part of this agents and all the Sisters rumors were false?
I would be stunned if GW give SoB a model release, much less the rumoured one with all those kits and not a codex. You're basically telling people, "they aren't meant to be taken as a full army so don't buy them". It would be completely stupid business sense, it's why Deathwatch and Cults got full army treatment. So people will buy 50 hybrids as opposed to a squad and a HQ (if that) for their existing Tyranids army. Being a full army sells models.
If they do, well, wow. I like the lore and art and feel that sharing the codex would seriously cheapen that.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.
heybiff wrote: In our haste to get our hands on these new book, lets just remember that GW has only delivered on 1 of 7 supplements (Deamonkin)in the last 3 years. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.
Roknar wrote: Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.
This book is a "gateway drug" book, with no doubt a little of everything in it (Inquisitors, Sisters, GKs, Deathwatch, Ad-Mech, etc.) that will allow people to 'taste' a bit of armies and from there they can get the proper books.
It probably doubles as a "test the waters" book for GW. Release a Canoness and a SoB Squad. If it does well, full book. If it doesn't, it's an option from a new Codex they just released.
Roknar wrote: Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.
Genestealers came out fairly interesting (not sure on the power level, but interesting) so there is some hope. GW has made enough right moves for me to trust them on this one.
That's what's got me worried a bit. It would have to have at least like 3 codices worth of units. Unless they are going to do some radical changes. Like build-a-unit sandbox level kind of radical.
My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
My question on these two supplements...
Since I doubt that GW will be able to produce new cult troops and elites for all of the Legions before the end of December... does this mean that GW is moving past the Chapterhouse debacle (not producing rules for things that don't have released models)? The way rapid prototyping and casting works these days, someone could seriously be selling GWknockoffs inspired miniatures within the day. Would Roundtree take that chance?
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
The problem with the GA books is they have nothing in them you can't get for free while the battletomes and the general's handbook contain rules you can't get otherwise. Which makes the GA books more of an optional purchase while they push out the battletomes as being less so.
From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.
If it's an indication of any rules changes, I'd lean more in the direction that GW are planning to heavily curb the Allies system in the new edition of 40K(perhaps, if they follow the General's Handbook model, by saying no or heavily limited Allies in Matched Play?) and this is a way to ensure Imperial players keep cross-purchasing from various factions to tempt them into starting new armies.
Or it might just be that they wanted a way to put out Custodes/SoS/Inquisition rules in a physical book but needed additional content to justify the price, so they threw in a selection of single-squad Formations from other factions that fit that role in the fluff to let folk bring in other factions with a lower buy-in than a full scale Formation or Ally Detachment.
Seriously, relax. GW might be a bit more unpredictable of late, but GK were popular enough on their own that they were essentially the only survivors from the 3rd/4th Edition Inquisition codex experiments, I doubt their sales have dropped so far that GW would be squatting them.
As for Sisters, well, we'll just have to hope that we get a Cannoness & a basic Battle Sister squad along with this as a taster, and the "proper" release is late Janurary or February. If it turns out that this was the basis of the Sisters rumours I might actually blub a little.
Yodhrin wrote: From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.
Because it'll be another excuse to not have a proper release. And GW doesn't exactly need any more excuses.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
The problem with the GA books is they have nothing in them you can't get for free while the battletomes and the general's handbook contain rules you can't get otherwise. Which makes the GA books more of an optional purchase while they push out the battletomes as being less so.
The GA books are an optional purchase, however they do contain some of the unique battalions from the campaign books...making them a cheap way of obtaining said battalions and being a good buy for someone with multiple armies.
Quarterdime wrote: I don't understand the Imperial Agents part. With the Armies of the Imperium in the allies section, every Imperial unit can be played just fine with every other Imperial unit. Is this just making it easier to include single units from another codex, like letting them be part of a CAD? What are we looking forward to here?
Maybe this is providing a rules update to all the odds and ends of the Imperium, but then referencing Deathwatch wouldn't make any sense because they just had a release. I don't understand...
I am hopeful that this is a hint that a book like this will be required to take Imperium BB in 8th. GW has certainly figured out what the new 8th ed ally matrix will be, and how this book will fit into it.
IF the new ally matrix significantly weakens the IOM Battle Brothers, then this book may be a compensation.
Maybe. We Non-imperium armies without battle brothers can only hope.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.
Kanluwen wrote: From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.
Which I like, pricewise.
Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.
Strictly speaking, that's not true.
They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.
Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.
And that's the keywords there.
Matched play only.
I know I know, it IS only 70% of all games but it's still pretty annoying.
Let's not cream our pants about the Traitor Legions book just yet. It could still be completely insulting, like maybe if you play Night Lords you get raptors as Troops, also here's a formation for them. Something like that.
I can tell you that since the Thousand Sons are on the cover of this book it's safe to say that the new rules for them will be found here (outside of the campaign set, I mean) and that anything else that's in there isn't expected to be subject to change moving forward, so I believe what we have to look forward to for the next 3 years are new model releases for existing units. In other words, don't expect any sonic hellbrutes, or any plague towers, or any of the other legions getting this expansive treatment. This book means that moving forward we're going to see Primarchs and updated miniatures. Which is still good news, but I think that if you're crossing your fingers for something this amazing happening to the others, you're making a mistake.
From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.
As for Sisters, well, we'll just have to hope that we get a Cannoness & a basic Battle Sister squad along with this as a taster, and the "proper" release is late Janurary or February. If it turns out that this was the basis of the Sisters rumours I might actually blub a little.
Another major purpose to this book seems to be to consolidate/update all the various Imperial faction units in one place, rather than having Codex Inquisition and Legions of the Damned as e-codices, Assassins as part of the Mont-Ka supplement, Militarum Tempestus as their own mini-codex with 5 units in it, and Sisters from a out of date WD/e-codex. Since Sisters are in the book, and the Inquisition is in it, may as well throw in small units from Deathwatch and Grey Knights to serve as Chambers Militant, while leaving their full codices to run fuller armies. We could see small forces, like a Brother Captain and terminator or strike squad, and Watch Captain and kill team, then say a comparible Sisters release for now- Canoness and battle sister squad to get the models out now and judge demand before doing a fuller Sisters of Battle codex.
Just thinking out loud.
Quarterdime wrote: Let's not cream our pants about the Traitor Legions book just yet. It could still be completely insulting, like maybe if you play Night Lords you get raptors as Troops, also here's a formation for them. Something like that.
I can tell you that since the Thousand Sons are on the cover of this book it's safe to say that the new rules for them will be found here (outside of the campaign set, I mean) and that anything else that's in there isn't expected to be subject to change moving forward, so I believe what we have to look forward to for the next 3 years are new model releases for existing units. In other words, don't expect any sonic hellbrutes, or any plague towers, or any of the other legions getting this expansive treatment. This book means that moving forward we're going to see Primarchs and updated miniatures. Which is still good news, but I think that if you're crossing your fingers for something this amazing happening to the others, you're making a mistake.
I'd expect something like Angels of Death and Traitors hate- a set of formations, plus a detachment for each legion with additional rules, relics, and traits that use those formations plus auxillaries.
On new units, I'd actually think they are more likely now, not less. The releases we have been seeing are starting to resemble what we would get in 4th-5th edition- 1 to 3 characters, 2 infantry/elite infantry sized kits, a vehicle or two, and sometimes a large misc kit. Back then, much of the release was converting metal/resin units over to plastic or replacing ancient kits. Now we are seeing releases on a lot faster pace (releases on a weekly/biweekly level instead of once a month) and with many of the old kits now done in plastic, they are going more for themed releases than a mix of "some old kits that need replaced plus a few new units we felt like making new models for). The last release like that I'd say was Tau, with their updates to Fire Warriors, Crisis and Commander suits, then the addition of the big suits and terrain. Besides them, we are seeing mainly the expansion of mini-factions- in Sigmar and with many of the new armies in 40K, instead of the traditional codex + models release.
This new Thousand Sons release fits that approach of "mini-factionalism" more than the traditional release style. They didn't go with just Magnus, updated Rubric Marines and Ahriman. The Terminators, Tzangors and sorcerer kits were relatively unexpected compared to the first two (and Ahriman as well, since they just came out with the HH version). Instead of merely adding a Lord of War and updating the old resin kit, they expanded the Tzeentch element of CSM into it's own entity. I'd expect future releases to follow the same approach. Instead of just a Plague marine kit, what is more likely is a Nurgle based force- plague marines, death reaper terminators, plague zombie cultists, typhus, mortarian, and maybe another kit. Berzerkers, Angron, Juggernaut riding marines and lord and something like the old Deathdealer for Khorne.
Instead of mashing them all together, GW seems to be taking the time to make the various sub-factions within an army into their own distinct entities, to the point of pulling units out of codices to expand on them- Harlequins and Genestealers/cultists and now Tzeentch Marines.
Not holding my breath at all for legions. A few gimmicky formations most likely, with 1-2 legions being head and shoulders above the rest (*yawn* Nurgle). What surprises me is that they said '9 legions', when they've spent a decade reducing the 5 undivided legions down to nothing more than the Icon of Vengeance.
I've always wanted to run an "Unblinking =][=" force with my Deathwatch Marines as the main force, with Grey Knight Termis and Sisters as support for that once in a millennia situation where everyone is on the same page and working together rather than at cross purposes.
As WesJanson mentions I think this combination would work well for it.
With this book included, Chaos has so many sources to draw from that you can basically create any type of army you like. Clearly they have listened, since this is what many of us CSM players have wanted for a couple of editions.
Too bad I dont remember all the naysayers names who a bit over a year ago were in bitter denial about GW changing their ways, ready to jump on anyone who thought otherwise. Well, you were, and are, wrong.
Just one of the now dozens of good moves. Dunno if theres tournament tier 1 level stuff in the traitor book, but I have a hunch a few combos will emerge, perhaps when used with IA or Daemons/KDK/Cabal.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect future releases to follow the same approach. Instead of just a Plague marine kit, what is more likely is a Nurgle based force- plague marines, death reaper terminators, plague zombie cultists, typhus, mortarian, and maybe another kit. Berzerkers, Angron, Juggernaut riding marines and lord and something like the old Deathdealer for Khorne.
The problem being, they are releasing the traitor legion formations now... which probably means no new units for the other legions.
I'll take new units for T-sons and new formations, (but it's still just bloat on the same old CSM codex). And old-new daemonettes. Why is this all at the same time haha. If FW drop more thousand sons stuff I'm screwed.
It has been a long and dark decade in the wilderness. Over 9 years since the Great Betrayal that saw the Legions rendered down to nothing but a paint job. We have spent an untold amount of days listening to the laughter of thirsty morons, with their cries of "counts as" and "the Legions are all broken up and shouldn't have rules" as they lap up the endless attention the Loyalists get, not just in rules but in miniature releases as well.
We still don't have plastic Oblits. We still don't have plastic heavy weapons. Most of our HQ's are resin. When they last gave us vehicles we got Dinobots and Hellturkeys. And as much as I like the kit, our basic infantry haven't really been updated in over 10 years (meanwhile the Blood Angels get their own special Tac Squad, even though they don't differ from regular Tac Squads, and all the loyalists got conversion kits on top of their special squads).
But no more! After such a long time listening to people tell us why we couldn't have what Forge World clearly proved what could be done with Legion rules, the time has time come.
Come for what, you ask?
VINDICATION!
Rue this day, all'a y'all who said Traitor Legions shouldn't get rules. Rue it hard!
You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?
I wonder if the imoerialagents book will mix al the smaller codices together into bite size portions that imperial players can use for allies?
Like, a grey knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads and 0-1 HQs with a formation bonus to deep striking to show them intervening, to give you little fluffy options for allying them in, while the GK codex proper will still be used to represent a GK brotherhood deploying to war on its own.
It will be interesting to see!
Predictions of factions:
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
Melissia wrote: My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Well Sisters players wouldn't be Sisters players if they were simultaneously unhappy about the stuff they don't have, the stuff they do have, the stuff they're getting, and the stuff they're not getting.
Melissia wrote: Because it'll be another excuse to not have a proper release. And GW doesn't exactly need any more excuses.
GW doesn't need any excuses, because they don't need an excuse to do or not do something. If they wanted to get rid of Sisters, they would have.
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
I'd reckon something pretty similar, though I think we are less likely to see Ad Mech and Skitarrii and more likely to see Militarum Tempestus (as that could have literally been 2 double sided pages for all the rules and units in it).
I'm excited to see what GW is doing with the Imperial Agents, but perhaps even more so for traitor legions. I haven't played Chaos since 4th edition (Night Lords!), and said I never would unless they brought back the legions. Maybe when 8th rolls around I might give Chaos another try.
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
I'd reckon something pretty similar, though I think we are less likely to see Ad Mech and Skitarrii and more likely to see Militarum Tempestus (as that could have literally been 2 double sided pages for all the rules and units in it).
I'm excited to see what GW is doing with the Imperial Agents, but perhaps even more so for traitor legions. I haven't played Chaos since 4th edition (Night Lords!), and said I never would unless they brought back the legions. Maybe when 8th rolls around I might give Chaos another try.
I knew I was missing someone!
This next month is going to be interesting to see, and maybe extra rules and special detachments will help Chaos overcome the weaknesses of the main book?
I mean, if Iron Warriors can be silly broken again, we will see a lot more metal and hazard stripes... again...
Crazyterran wrote: I wonder if the imoerialagents book will mix al the smaller codices together into bite size portions that imperial players can use for allies?
Like, a grey knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads and 0-1 HQs with a formation bonus to deep striking to show them intervening, to give you little fluffy options for allying them in, while the GK codex proper will still be used to represent a GK brotherhood deploying to war on its own.
It will be interesting to see!
Predictions of factions:
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
I think most are covered here, but I reckon AM stuff will stay separate. If it's nine, these would be my guesses:
Adeptus Custodes
Adeptus Sororitas
Astra Telepathica – Sisters of Silence
Astra Telepathica – Wyrdvane sanctioned psykers
Militarum Tempestus - Scions
Officio Assassinorum
Ordo Hereticus – Inquisition
Ordo Malleus – Grey Knights
Ordo Xenos – Deathwatch
Nah your lit above is probably right, unless the Sisters of Silence just get rolled in with the telepathica as a faction.
I think they will just put the Inquisition Codex in the new book, and update and/or remove things, like Chimera fire points (my Jokaero kill team, nooo) and getting rid of psybolt ammo.
Edit: if they do Knights in there, maybe it will be a Freeblade that can be mixed and matched like the Chaos Knights?
They're not rolling anything into anything. This is a Codex that allows armies to bring a squad/character from another faction in their Imperial army, so a Marine army with a squad of Sisters, or a Guard army with a Deathwatch Kill-Team.
It does not mean the Grey Knight Codex is subsumed by this.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're not rolling anything into anything. This is a Codex that allows armies to bring a squad/character from another faction in their Imperial army, so a Marine army with a squad of Sisters, or a Guard army with a Deathwatch Kill-Team.
It does not mean the Grey Knight Codex is subsumed by this.
Yeah, I'd be surprised if you see dread knights, or the corvus (sp?) or watch masters, or grey knight librarians, paladins...
Basically, I imagine it will be mostly the more bare bones units. Standard troop choices etc.
I think it's cool though, and it harks back to what I have said a few times. The grey knights or kill teams were so so so much better when they were more mysterious and just one specialist unit as allies etc.
@HMBC: Agreed. I've seen folks say the opposite however, and I was stating that I didn't think this was so.
Apologies for not being clear.
Good news for the traitor scum, too. I member getting the was it fourth edition CSM codex where their background basically turned them into x gang of whiny teenagers. Put that brand new Army Box straight on eBay.
Hopefully GW will roll up their sculpting sleeves and start chucking out new plastic kits. Think they would sell shed loads.
Can't wait to see the traitor legions book, "imperial agents" not so much - it's harder to keep an open mind about that given the extremely barebones, half-arsed job they've done with that subject in recent years. Still, who knows, maybe it'll be half-decent.
I like how people are rejoicing and despairing over these new books despite the fact we know next to nothing about them. Maybe wait a little and see what we're actually dealing with here?
Crazyterran wrote: I wonder if the imoerialagents book will mix al the smaller codices together into bite size portions that imperial players can use for allies?
Like, a grey knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads and 0-1 HQs with a formation bonus to deep striking to show them intervening, to give you little fluffy options for allying them in, while the GK codex proper will still be used to represent a GK brotherhood deploying to war on its own.
It will be interesting to see!
Predictions of factions:
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
I think most are covered here, but I reckon AM stuff will stay separate. If it's nine, these would be my guesses:
Adeptus Custodes
Adeptus Sororitas
Astra Telepathica – Sisters of Silence
Astra Telepathica – Wyrdvane sanctioned psykers
Militarum Tempestus - Scions
Officio Assassinorum
Ordo Hereticus – Inquisition
Ordo Malleus – Grey Knights
Ordo Xenos – Deathwatch
Although knights also make sense as well...
Personally, I'd rather see Knights rolled into an Adeptus Mechanicus codex, with a bit of fluff about Imperial Knights and a Knight Household as a formation. The Getting Started and now Battleforce have both been labeled as Adeptus Mechanicus and combined units from both codices.
If they do make Sisters of Silence, Wyrdvane squads, and maybe astropaths/Primaris psykers into the Astra Telepathica faction, that would free up a slot for the other single unit Imperial codex- Legion of the Damned.
So Sisters of Battle go from codex Sisters of Battle to Codex Witch Hunters to WD Codex Adepta Sororitas to Digital Codex Adepta Sororitas and finally to Codex Imperial Agents?
Seems they are being thrown back and forth allot, then again the best Sisters codex was the 3E Witch Hunters codex. So now we go back to codex Witch Hunters but this time with Ordo Xenos and Malleus included.
Souleater wrote: Hopefully GW will roll up their sculpting sleeves and start chucking out new plastic kits. Think they would sell shed loads.
Something Sad Panda said about the GW sculpting process has me curious here. Panda basically said that they have a library of basic CAD designs (Marines in Mk.VII, Mk.VI, regular Terminators, etc.) and then libraries of faction specific add-ons (the example given was a "Tzeentch library"), that they can use to modify the existing designs. So Tartaros Terminator CAD + Tzeentch Library Details = Pure Awesomeness.
If that's the case, then it couldn't be too hard to do the same thing for the other Cult armies.
Especially for Chaos players who have been waiting for Chaos to be Chaos against since they got rid 3.5 and replaced it with that horrendous 'Chaos' Codex in 4th Ed.
This wouldn't really fit as they aren't agents, they are just a police force. You would call people working for the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, KGB etc Agents but not anyone from the local police force. Also there are no models for them so they wouldn't be in the book (unless we'd see a release for them in Dec).
I'm getting some bad vibes from the Agents book. So from what I understand it will contain 9 smaller sub factions? So expected factions have been mentioned above, but what worries me is the wording that you can include "...Grey Knight Terminator squads...". What this leads me to believe is that the GK codex will not be included, instead all you will get is a GK Captain of sorts and perhaps a troop and elite choice. So will this book be a bad mash up that just happen to include rules on how to include 1HQ, 1Troop and 1 Elite from GK, SoB and Deathwatch? Something you can already do using the allies rules?
How big is this codex? Normal book size is 104 pages or am I completely off? If they included everything wouldn't the rules take up like 50-60 pages alone?
I'm starting to think codex imperial agents will just be a book of formations for factions that don't have them yet (inquisition, grey knights, etc...), maybe with one or two new models in the same vein as the angels of death supplement.
Would be nice to have some new formations for the assassins, but I don't see them getting new stats because then they'd conflict with the rules in the execution force box set.
"Imperial Agents" is just a term that goes back to 2nd Edition, when the black and white Codex Army Lists pamphlet in the main box included everything Imperial that wasn't Guard or Space Marines under that heading. It included Inquisitors, Sororitas, Mechanicus, Assassins, Ecclasiarchy priests, Sanctioned Psykers and, yes, Arbites.
So anything is fair game for this. Arbites are really the quintessential Imperial Agents faction alongside the Inquisition. They won't be included without models though...
I see no point in listing the remaining codexes as it's clear to me from this point that they aren't combining the codexes mentioned above. They could but we all know that GW Codexes HAVE TO contain allot of fluff and a picture gallery of every single model in the codex, rules come second in GWs eyes (Codex Iyanden anyone? 1 page of rules, 1 page of relics and 1 page of warlord traits).
So what we are probably looking it as is a small codex where they simply combine the smaller factions and to flesh it out include options for 1HQ, 1Troop and 1Elite from codex SoB, GK and DW, which in itself is pointless as you can already do this with allies.
Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....
Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off
A normal company, i.e 99.9% of the business world, would look to fix the core problem i.e 40k rules
They wouldn't just keep piling mnore and more stuff on.
Kinda reminds me of my brother in law - if he has a problem with one part of the house, he just adds another room, rather than fix the original problem!
We know that 8th is coming soon. They may not want to release a new Sisters of Battle 'dex before then, but throwing their existing rules into Codex: Allies of Space Marines (because we know that's what it's really meant to be for) may tempt people to 'wet their palette' a little and be more inclined to buy the full release later.
This wouldn't really fit as they aren't agents, they are just a police force. You would call people working for the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, KGB etc Agents but not anyone from the local police force. Also there are no models for them so they wouldn't be in the book (unless we'd see a release for them in Dec).
Arbites are the Imperium's FBI though. Local police are whoever/whatever the government there raise locally as enforcers and their authority extends to that planet alone, whilst Arbites maintain the much smaller - better trained and equipped - federal' force who are there enforce Imperial law, such as making sure tithes are met, keeping an eye on planetary governors, etc.
You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?
It all depends 8th might just
be a 6th -> 7th transition. In case he book is still useful.
Or it might be Wfb -> AoS. In case I will not switch systems and the book will still be useful.
Imperial Agents is actually pretty bad news for Sisters players are it explains why only a Canoness has been rumoured for release at the end of Dec. Perhaps we will see a full sisters codex in Jan with a proper release but I'm starting to lose hope :(
Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....
Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off
On the other hand, the Imperial Agents does a lot to remedy this for people like me running a general Imperial army. I use the ebook codexes, but even then, having to keep switching between SM or IG, Deathwatch or GK, Inquisition and Skitarii in anything over about 1400 points is a right pain, so consolidation a bunch of those into one book actually makes things a lot simpler if you're just taking the basic stuff rather than the fancy toys of each codex.
Does this mean Chaos players will finally stop complai.... oh they've already started complaining about a book that's giving them mechanical rules for what they've wanted for years.
I'd like to see what they do for the EC and Slaanesh in general though. Anything even remotely similar to the Thousand Sons revamp for 40k and my wallet will need a therapist.
Also, I'm going to guess it's going to be either small detachments or formations with the profiles needed to run those detachments or formations, and not whole army list.
So the Sister of Battle one could be a Cannoness and a Battle Sister squad, a small formation to run some of them, and maybe a page or blurb with special rules for them.
Maybe a Grey Knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads, who must arrive by deep strike, and if 2 squads are within 12" they give models with the daemon special rule (including Daemons of blank) -1 invulns, and -2 for 3 squads.
Could be a generic inquisitor that simply combines all of the separate Ordos into one node, and you customize it as you chooose, and a warband for him.
Just spitballing - from the description, it seems to be a fun, fluffy book for imperial players, not a replacement book.
You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?
It all depends 8th might just
be a 6th -> 7th transition. In case he book is still useful.
Or it might be Wfb -> AoS. In case I will not switch systems and the book will still be useful.
I am starting to think this might be deliberate. One of the biggest and most justified complaints about the ending of warhammer fantasy was that certain factions, notably the Brettonians never got a final update.
It seems likely that the new edition of 40k will be a fairly major change. There will be a certain sector of the audience who will be reluctant to switch over. This is for them.
To use the video game analogy, Sony continued to put out ps2 games long after the ps3 came out.
In terms of book bloat the agents book is also a good idea.
Imagine an inquisitor led imperial guard army with a Deathwatch Kill team and an assassin. Before you would have needed 4 books, now you just need 2.
I imagine the whole of the existing Inquisition Codex will be folded into this book, if only because it has the same cover: GW doesn't like to dilute its brand identities.
Likewise, there's no reason not to include all the Assassins rules, since it's just four datasheets, a formation and wargear/special rules.
Sisters, as they currently stand, could fit in - they don't have many units, considering. But if there are single entries for Deathwatch and Grey Knights, that could set a precedent for them to only have a similar presence.
I'm fascinated to know what the chapter tactics will be
Alpha Legion: Something to do with infiltrating, scouting, reserve manipulation. Hopefully nothing to do with cultists
Word Bearers: Hard to predict because dark apostles are a thing that everybody can have now, and extra troops on the FOC is redundant these days. Maybe some greater integration with daemons (or straight access to some daemons units without allying) and/or something to do with possessed
Iron Warriors: Vindicators exist for everybody now... maybe some boost to heavy weapons that helps take down vehicles and fortifications. Basilisks?? Or... dare I say... wyverns??? (No probably not but it would be funny)
Night Lords: Fear across the army and night vision sounds reasonable. Raptor troops? They're better than CSM squads at least
Are Black Legion even considered a traitor legion any more? BL aren't just Sons of Horus any more so they're in an unusual position
Crazyterran wrote: I wonder if the imoerialagents book will mix al the smaller codices together into bite size portions that imperial players can use for allies?
Like, a grey knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads and 0-1 HQs with a formation bonus to deep striking to show them intervening, to give you little fluffy options for allying them in, while the GK codex proper will still be used to represent a GK brotherhood deploying to war on its own.
It will be interesting to see!
Predictions of factions:
Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights
Pretty sure there was something actually stating Wyrdvanes are representing the Astra Telepathica.
My own thoughts:
Telepathica
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters of Battle
Sisters of Silence
Custodes
Grey Knights
Deathwatch
Tempestus
I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:
dan2026 wrote: TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.
And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?
You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?
It all depends 8th might just
be a 6th -> 7th transition. In case he book is still useful.
Or it might be Wfb -> AoS. In case I will not switch systems and the book will still be useful.
I am starting to think this might be deliberate. One of the biggest and most justified complaints about the ending of warhammer fantasy was that certain factions, notably the Brettonians never got a final update.
It seems likely that the new edition of 40k will be a fairly major change. There will be a certain sector of the audience who will be reluctant to switch over. This is for them.
To use the video game analogy, Sony continued to put out ps2 games long after the ps3 came out.
In terms of book bloat the agents book is also a good idea.
Imagine an inquisitor led imperial guard army with a Deathwatch Kill team and an assassin. Before you would have needed 4 books, now you just need 2.
From what little has been said about the potential 8th edition, it's been hinted that the goal isn't to just flat-out copy Age of Sigmar. The goal seems to be to make things accessible and a bit more fluid.
I don't have inside information. I don't have anything like that. If I had to make a guess though? I think we'll see:
The Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill charts made to match each other.
Armor Penetration values become more akin to Rend values(The difference between your opponent's AP value and your Armor value becomes a modifier to the save roll; an AP5 weapon v. a 3+ save becomes no modifier but AP3 v a 4+ save becomes a -1 modifier)
Vehicles getting an overhaul, but within the constraints of vehicles and their current hull point mechanic.
Da Butcha wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:
dan2026 wrote: TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.
And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?
Everyone is assuming it's a typo, but it could be interesting if not. Allow CSM access to all of the core SM units, put more specific stuff in the traitor legion supplement (and/or a renegades supplement in future?!) Daemon engines could move into the Daemons codex, or even their own supplement.
As for the Imperial Agents codex, I'm really psyched, hoping it's the Inquisition plus friends, because that's the army I've wanted to build for years, ever since I first read the old Daemonhunters codex. Of course it's annoying that I've had to go through two Grey Knight codices, MT, Deathwatch and the copy/paste abomination of the current inquisition codex to get there. Here's hoping they do a better job this time.
BroodSpawn wrote: Does this mean Chaos players will finally stop complai.... oh they've already started complaining about a book that's giving them mechanical rules for what they've wanted for years.
I'd like to see what they do for the EC and Slaanesh in general though. Anything even remotely similar to the Thousand Sons revamp for 40k and my wallet will need a therapist.
Space Marine players cry more about CSM complainers than CSM players complain.
MadCowCrazy wrote: Imperial Agents is actually pretty bad news for Sisters players are it explains why only a Canoness has been rumoured for release at the end of Dec. Perhaps we will see a full sisters codex in Jan with a proper release but I'm starting to lose hope :(
As the old cliche amongst sisters players goes-- hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Da Butcha wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:
dan2026 wrote: TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)
Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.
And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?
Everyone is assuming it's a typo, but it could be interesting if not. Allow CSM access to all of the core SM units, put more specific stuff in the traitor legion supplement (and/or a renegades supplement in future?!) Daemon engines could move into the Daemons codex, or even their own supplement.
As for the Imperial Agents codex, I'm really psyched, hoping it's the Inquisition plus friends, because that's the army I've wanted to build for years, ever since I first read the old Daemonhunters codex. Of course it's annoying that I've had to go through two Grey Knight codices, MT, Deathwatch and the copy/paste abomination of the current inquisition codex to get there. Here's hoping they do a better job this time.
I suspect it's not a typo and is basically saying that the legions (and any new chapters that fall as one) as still basically space marines with similar rules and equipment so will play off codex space marines with a bit of chaos flavour probably on the special characters that drove their fall
then as things fall apart over time and they become more warped by chaos, loose equipment they can't maintain etc and start to get more acess to demonic stuff they'll end up becoming more generic chaos marines
you can have all your cool chaos toys AND all the benefits of being a strongly organised and equipped Marine force at the same time
All the Sisters release rumors pointed to Jan-Feb, so I'm doubtful that this is the same thing. Imperial Agents looks to be more along the lines of what others have stated: A way to include single units from these smaller Imperial factions with the more fleshed-out Imperial codices.
Considering that both of these books land squarely in the midst of my main 40k armies, there is a very good chance that I will be getting both...
And will need to get started on the painting of my own personal mount gray plastic so that my Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children get the love they deserve, and that my Raging Heroes inquisitor gets a proper army list...
It could actually be a clever idea of the Traitor Legions book was a supplement for C:SM instead of C:CSM. That could allow for 30K players to port over much of their armies.
Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....
Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off
On the other hand, the Imperial Agents does a lot to remedy this for people like me running a general Imperial army. I use the ebook codexes, but even then, having to keep switching between SM or IG, Deathwatch or GK, Inquisition and Skitarii in anything over about 1400 points is a right pain, so consolidation a bunch of those into one book actually makes things a lot simpler if you're just taking the basic stuff rather than the fancy toys of each codex.
I've been out of the game for a few years now, so I have no idea what it's like anymore.
I know they still have space marines, and that's about it
But I remember the days when the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels were rolled into one book, so perhaps we're seeing a return to that format?
Inquisition players do not even have a non digital book right now...
That bad?
Inquisition is one of the few armies I've never played against...
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note, when I looked at that codex cover, my first impression of an Imperial Agent was a tax collector.
I'm sure there is something in the background about Imperial Tax collectors, armed to the teeth, making sure the Imperium gets what it is due...
Naturally of course, the 40k background is full of people who refused to stump up for various reasons....
Huron Blackheart being an infamous example...
That would have been a good codex idea. And they could have had their own spells: the lore of the taxman:
Special Psychic power: Red Tape.
3+ to cast. Range 18 inches. If successful, target unit is immobolised for 1 turn, as they pause to fill out tax return.
If target unit rolls two 6s in defence, they have sucessfully gained a rebate, and the spell fizzles out
Government Audit:
7+ to cast. Range: 4D6.
If successful, target unit must submit all rulebooks and codex books they own for a full audit and may not use any special rules or powers from affected books for 2 turns...
As I've been toying with the idea of completely rewriting all rules and codexes from the ground up the way I would do SM and CSM is the following.
Take Codex SM and baseline every single entry (what I mean is no chapter specific stuff included with anything). Then create Legion unit cards. Say you want CSM Berserkers, you look at the Berserker entry and it's basically Use Tactical Marine, +3 points cost, Add +1WS and +1A, remove Boltgun etc etc
With a system like this you could balance both SM and CSM very easily, have unique rules and wargear for all chapters without having to write a completely new codex for every damned legion. Need to change something, change the baseline unit entry and it's updated for every single Legion at the same time. Then again GW does love to force us to buy books that leave much to be desired...
Did contact GW about this but they basically said they are not interested in balancing the game at the moment, probably due to 8E and what it will do to the game. If/When 8E ruins the game I will have a more serious look at my Co-Deck Project.
If the Imperial Agents book lets me pick up small amounts of several armies, that would be cool. Plus, I want physical rules for inquisition and assassins.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
When did BOLS report this?
A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
When did BOLS report this?
A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.
Just for clarification, the original rumor on lady atia's blog indicated that Grey Knights ARE getting rolled in as one of the 9 factions.
Well, they're being included, like the Deathwatch and Sisters. That won't invalidate the existing DW and GK books, and I fully expect Sisters will get a full codex down the road as well. As has come up a few times in the thread, the Agents book is likely to have the bare bones of each faction, if you want the special toys like Dreadknights, Corvus flyers or Exorcists you go to each faction's own book.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
When did BOLS report this?
A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.
This wouldn't really fit as they aren't agents, they are just a police force. You would call people working for the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, KGB etc Agents but not anyone from the local police force. Also there are no models for them so they wouldn't be in the book (unless we'd see a release for them in Dec).
I'm getting some bad vibes from the Agents book. So from what I understand it will contain 9 smaller sub factions? So expected factions have been mentioned above, but what worries me is the wording that you can include "...Grey Knight Terminator squads...". What this leads me to believe is that the GK codex will not be included, instead all you will get is a GK Captain of sorts and perhaps a troop and elite choice. So will this book be a bad mash up that just happen to include rules on how to include 1HQ, 1Troop and 1 Elite from GK, SoB and Deathwatch? Something you can already do using the allies rules?
How big is this codex? Normal book size is 104 pages or am I completely off? If they included everything wouldn't the rules take up like 50-60 pages alone?
Arbites aren't even remotely a local police force, they're more like a cross between the FBI and the SAS. Local "Enforcers" deal with the laws of the planetary governor or equivalent, the Arbites enforce the laws of the Emperor, and in addition to their permanent precinct fortresses on most worlds of any appreciable size, they have their own Strike Cruiser analogues and are freqently seconded to Inquisitors.
Melissia wrote: My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Hey it's a great occasion to reduce the choice of available units once again! Sisters now include Canonness, basic Battle Sisters, Seraphims, and Exorcist, so list building will be much easier! This is great new! You don't have to worry about whether you want to take a rhino or immolator transport because they don't exist anymore! You don't have to decide between Seraphims and Dominions as FA because Dominions don't exist!
I mean, we got to share the book with not one, not two, not three, but EIGHT (8) other subfactions!
Confirmed subfactions includes:
- Grey Knights
- Deathwatch
- Inquisition
- Officio Assasinorum
- Adeptus Astra Telepathica
So there are 3 more factions that are not mentioned in the description blurb. Given that 100% of the mentioned factions already have models available (well, Wyrdwane psykers were mostly portrayed as part of the IGiirc but still they already have models), I expect those factions to be Scions/Stormtroopers, Legion of the Damned, and maybe the last one will be the Ecclesiarchy, with the Confessor, Priests, Arcoflagellants, Penitent Engine?
ERJAK wrote: Just for clarification, the original rumor on lady atia's blog indicated that Grey Knights ARE getting rolled in as one of the 9 factions.
If this is true the codex will be larger than the SM codex if it is to contain fluff and model pictures as well. If they roll in SoB, DW, GK, =][=, Assassins, Admech, Skitarii, Tempestus Scions, Knights, Custodes, SoS, Astra Telepathica and what else has been rumoured we are looking at well over +70ish unit entries. Many of these are duplicates though, I doubt there would be 7 entries for a Rhino as most of the factions can use those?
Perhaps it's a book of formations and nothing else? This would make sense and be more practical, basically formations for all factions that don't have them or very few of them?
pretre wrote: I think it is a bit early to have all the 'we're losing units!' tears.
Nope, never too early. Either I'm right and in this case it's normal, or I am wrong and I'll get a good surprise. Better get a good surprise than a bad surprise. Well who am I kidding with good surprises…
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
When did BOLS report this?
A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.
Just for clarification, the original rumor on lady atia's blog indicated that Grey Knights ARE getting rolled in as one of the 9 factions.
Well, no, it mentions Grey Knights terminator squads. I imagine the basic troops will be included, and ditto for Sisters, not the whole faction.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.
Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.
When did BOLS report this?
A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.
Just for clarification, the original rumor on lady atia's blog indicated that Grey Knights ARE getting rolled in as one of the 9 factions.
Well, no, it mentions Grey Knights terminator squads. I imagine the basic troops will be included, and ditto for Sisters, not the whole faction.
My statement is still correct, just not as pandantically thorough.
Melissia wrote: My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Hey it's a great occasion to reduce the choice of available units once again! Sisters now include Canonness, basic Battle Sisters, Seraphims, and Exorcist, so list building will be much easier! This is great new! You don't have to worry about whether you want to take a rhino or immolator transport because they don't exist anymore! You don't have to decide between Seraphims and Dominions as FA because Dominions don't exist! I mean, we got to share the book with not one, not two, not three, but EIGHT (8) other subfactions! Confirmed subfactions includes: - Grey Knights - Deathwatch - Inquisition - Officio Assasinorum - Adeptus Astra Telepathica So there are 3 more factions that are not mentioned in the description blurb. Given that 100% of the mentioned factions already have models available (well, Wyrdwane psykers were mostly portrayed as part of the IGiirc but still they already have models), I expect those factions to be Scions/Stormtroopers, Legion of the Damned, and maybe the last one will be the Ecclesiarchy, with the Confessor, Priests, Arcoflagellants, Penitent Engine?
It could be that they only include some mixed detachments / formations for Grey knights and deathwatch while referencing to their codexes. It sort of makes sense, why rewrite the Deathwatch codex when it is only a few months old. This would leave more space for the othersm but I am still quite anxious about losing stuff.
You'll notice that literally everything that is mentioned in the blurb already has official rules, actually. So what are they going to do? Replace all those rules and provide new ones? Or just put all the old rules together? Or what?
A Codex: Imperial Agents was planned for 2nd Edition 40k
The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.
I havent read the new WD yet but this Codex should come with all the needed datasheets. For Grey Knight Terminators, Assassins, Inquisitors etc. so we won't have to buy the other books.
You cannot mix factions in a detachment. GW could change the faction symbol on the new datasheets to Imperial Agents, like they did with KDK and Renegade Knights. Which I guess is what they will do to make it work.
I get very annoyed when I read "Adeptus" Sororitas, was really annoyed when I read it in the short story Casting a Hungry Shadow that featured a Battle Sisters that had been taken by a genestealer cult and even had 2 genestealer hybrid sons.
So were they originally Adeptus or has allot of GW people just gotten it wrong for years and years and years? The 3E Witch Hunter codex was my first ever codex and it has them as Adepta and not Adeptus. Afaik Adepta is female and Adeptus is male.
Could someone explain it to me so I know for future endeavors.
Seriously. If a sports team is made of women only, does the word team change its gender? Both are correct afaik, GW decided to change it in 3rd Edition. It is just a made up word
Adeptus Custodes was the original title of the Codex in 2nd Edition. Edit: Or was it only in some countries?
It was just called "Codex: Sisters of Battle" in the UK. But they were definitely Adeptus Sororitas for a very long time. I think Codex: Witch Hunters was the first time they used Adepta instead, but it's been applied inconsistently until 6th Edition, when they renamed the Codex and clarified the terminology.
pretre wrote: I think it is a bit early to have all tSOmehe 'we're losing units!' tears.
Sadly some people can not help but be negative.
It is some kind of genetic flaw.
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Thommy H wrote: It was just called "Codex: Sisters of Battle" in the UK. But they were definitely Adeptus Sororitas for a very long time. I think Codex: Witch Hunters was the first time they used Adepta instead, but it's been applied inconsistently until 6th Edition, when they renamed the Codex and clarified the terminology.
They changed it to Adepta the when the made the digi only codex a bit back.
And they did it for the same reason that they changed Imperial Guard.
No more, no less.
They want names that they can copyright.
Warhams-77 wrote: Seriously. If a sports team is made of women only, does the word team change its gender? Both are correct afaik, GW decided to change it in 3rd Edition. It is just a made up word
Adeptus Custodes was the original title of the Codex in 2nd Edition. Edit: Or was it only in some countries?
Warhams-77 wrote: A Codex: Imperial Agents was planned for 2nd Edition 40k
The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.
I havent read the new WD yet but this Codex should come with all the needed datasheets. For Grey Knight Terminators, Assassins, Inquisitors etc. so we won't have to buy the other books.
You cannot mix factions in a detachment. GW could change the faction symbol on the new datasheets to Imperial Agents, like they did with KDK and Renegade Knights. Which I guess is what they will do to make it work.
Do you have a link to the GW post? I can't find it/am missing it atm.
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
Where is this taken from? I can't seem to find where it's from, does anyone have to url to where it originated from.
Thing that worries me right now is if the sisters will use the same horrible faith system as from the digital version of the codex.
IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
Where is this taken from? I can't seem to find where it's from, does anyone have to url to where it originated from.
Thing that worries me right now is if the sisters will use the same horrible faith system as from the digital version of the codex.
It is from reddit. The user copied it word for word from white dwarf along with the the traitor legion text. We have photographic evidence to show the traitor stuff was correct aside from the typo so I'm sure this is correct too.
Hopefully there will be more to it than just squads. I am hoping for HQ units to go with each of the factions. Like a Librarian for the Grey Knights or a Canoness for SoB.
It seems weird that they'd do that (although signs do point that way), since with an HQ and a Troops choice, you can just use the Allied Detachment, so why make a big deal about being able to include a squad in your army like the blurb suggests? I've been wrong about every rumour I've commented on lately though, so whatever...
The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.
Thommy H wrote: It seems weird that they'd do that (although signs do point that way), since with an HQ and a Troops choice, you can just use the Allied Detachment, so why make a big deal about being able to include a squad in your army like the blurb suggests? I've been wrong about every rumour I've commented on lately though, so whatever...
If the forces are not allied detachments but unique detachments, it would make more sense. Perhaps formations with some small benefits.
BloodGrin wrote: Sadly some people can not help but be negative.
It is some kind of genetic flaw.
It's acquired not innate.
Jup I for sure can date the moment with pin point precision. Before my current ork codex I was quite enthusiastic about new codex releases since they gave you cool new stuff and a better working army. Now I just hope that they don't remove half of my units and HQ's from the codex and this is a high risk codex.
It could be great, but there isn't that much room in the book and they try to cramp a lot in it.
GW is known for removing units, equipment and rules in such cases, buffing the new toys at the expense of the old toys, and guess what my entire army consist out of web store only, oop models, and things that don't have GW models instead of the new shining boyz and girls in gold.
The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.
Melissia wrote: My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Maybe you should give up completely on Sisters or GW entirely. Unless you're only here to complain because you enjoy the sound of your own voice whining.
From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.
A reasonable call for sense and calm from Yodhrin! Take note, naysayers!
Melissia wrote: My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.
Maybe you should give up completely on Sisters or GW entirely. Unless you're only here to complain because you enjoy the sound of your own voice whining.
BOOM
Dammit you just blew my irony meter up and I am English so that takes some doing.
I am both really excited and concerned with the Traitor Legions book.
Really excited that were finally getting Night Lords rules.
Really, really concerned that they will take the easy route out by just giving them Night Fighting, Night Vision and army-wide fear.. Because Fear is so effective in 7th........
And for the love of everything please no FoC swapping! The game has evolved past that stage now. Give us maybe Legion-specific decurions instead? Oh yes my wallet would burn for that sweet, sweet love...
Honestly, I'd rather have more role based detachments. The HH series show that they can still offer quite significant changes in combination with some army wide rules. I don't have a problem with formations per se, but I don't like how that's all we've been getting. I find them too rigid.
Traitor's hate was more flexible than most, but still. Plus they stop you from using forgeworld.
date given 3rd Dec (not clear if tht's preorder or release)
v
Preorder 3rd, 10th for Imperial preorder.
Stoked they are releasing this info early for to plan the perils of the wallet but more so, to know we are getting true info.
It's still a supplement to an outdated and not exactly outstanding base codex. The new units might be all the rage, but it can only do so much for the existing units. And previous supplements warrant being cautiously optimistic.
It IS a traitor legion supplement, so that alone is mind bogglingly good news and new units/models too. Hoo boy! Good times, but yea, there could be all sorts of meh and lolwut?! moments.
Uriels_Flame wrote: Appealing to older players and new, new models and a fleshed out 30k timeline, return of primarchs, return of specialist games...
What again do niche gamers have to complain about?
Good rules.
Are the forcing you to currently play?
Again, I'm assuming it is just easy to criticize unless anyone here submitted a rule set and GW laughed in their face. With Kirby, I may believe it. Not lately though.
"I wish GW would make good rules.
"No one is forcing you to play by GW's rules."
... is that really the defense you want to go with? Because that's really kinda lame and unconvincing. I mean yeah, I agree that there's a lot of hyperbole about GW's bad rules (they're mostly playable, could be better and could be worse, IMO), but that's just such a bad defense of it. It doesn't matter that people aren't forced to play, rules are bad or good on their own merits or lack thereof.
TheLumberJack wrote: Does anyone think the Legion supplement will invalidate the existing Black Legion supplement?
No. The warhammer site said that there were eight legions getting rules, because black legion already had a supplement (the 9th).
Where? The Warhammer Community site makes 0 mention of the number of Legions getting stuff, the Reddit posed that started all this says nine (as in ine, not 9, so it's unlikely for that to be a type), and the promotional video has the symbols of all nine legions.
Given that this book looks to pretty much be the Chaos version of Angels of Death, the Black Legion supplement (or at least elements of it) are highly likely to be reprinted in this book with a Decuion Detachment (like Clan Raukaan or Sentinels of Terra were for Loyalists).
TheLumberJack wrote: Does anyone think the Legion supplement will invalidate the existing Black Legion supplement?
No. The warhammer site said that there were eight legions getting rules, because black legion already had a supplement (the 9th).
Where? The Warhammer Community site makes 0 mention of the number of Legions getting stuff, the Reddit posed that started all this says nine (as in ine, not 9, so it's unlikely for that to be a type), and the promotional video has the symbols of all nine legions.
Given that this book looks to pretty much be the Chaos version of Angels of Death, the Black Legion supplement (or at least elements of it) are highly likely to be reprinted in this book with a Decuion Detachment (like Clan Raukaan or Sentinels of Terra were for Loyalists).
Also the teaser trailer for the supplement has black legion logo in it
Most people here are speculating wildly cause they never played second edition of 40K...
In the second edition starter box (2nd Battle of Armageddon Orks vs BA) there was a book called: CODEX ARMY LISTS including temporary lists for all armies until individual codices were released...
SM and IG armies could spend 25% of their points in allies taken from a list called IMPERIAL AGENTS...
This list was including:
Adeptus Arbites
Adeptus Mechanicus
Adeptus Ministrorum
Adeptus Astra Telepathica
Officio Assassinorum
Inquisition
Grey Knights
in third edition GW introduced the Deathwatch too as a single alliable KIll Team (one single squad for each imperial army)
Now i guess the new codex Imperial Agents will be VERY similar to that list... For example i dont think we will see Adeptus Arbites (they are more suited for a game like Necromunda) but we will get things like Deathwatch, Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence...
So there is still room for a full SoB codex...
When you are in doubt about theGW of these days look back to 40k from RT to third edition and you will have the reply...
Perhaps it's a book of formations and nothing else? This would make sense and be more practical, basically formations for all factions that don't have them or very few of them?
That's my guess. In fact I'll go father and guess 8th edition will eliminate troops/heavy/HQ/etc and offer only unbound and formations.
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Uriels_Flame wrote: Appealing to older players and new, new models and a fleshed out 30k timeline, return of primarchs, return of specialist games...
What again do niche gamers have to complain about?
master sheol wrote: Most people here are speculating wildly cause they never played second edition of 40K...
In the second edition starter box (2nd Battle of Armageddon Orks vs BA) there was a book called: CODEX ARMY LISTS including temporary lists for all armies until individual codices were released...
SM and IG armies could spend 25% of their points in allies taken from a list called IMPERIAL AGENTS...
Quite a few people have specifically mentioned that, actually.
I think we can all agree on the fact that Chaos players need some love too. The fact that the last decent Chaos codex dates back to 3rd edition and the fact that finally GW is paying attention to chaos traitors legions again is making me happy.
On the other hand I am curious what the supplement Imperial agents will include and when they will update the Gk codex. They are outdated and weak right now.
MadCowCrazy wrote: The traitors legion video only shows 8 icons, I'm guessing sons of horus are missing as they became the black legion if I'm not mistaken?
The missing one was the Alpha Legion, but GW said they were in in the comments. The Black Legion icon is the eye in the chaos star.
Capamaru wrote: I think we can all agree on the fact that Chaos players need some love too. The fact that the last decent Chaos codex dates back to 3rd edition and the fact that finally GW is paying attention to chaos traitors legions again is making me happy.
On the other hand I am curious what the supplement Imperial agents will include and when they will update the Gk codex. They are outdated and weak right now.
They have a 7th ed codex and don't have the model range to run a multi-formation detachment, what would you want them to do?
Not every army should have a massive breadth of units, grey knights, my harlequins, tempestus scions all should be specialist armies with very focused play styles. That is their entire reason for existing. With the death from the skies supplement, you now have access to all the flyers with heavy weapons you could want. It literally fills all the niches that grey knights currently struggle with (anti air for fmc's and decent anti armor)
The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.
Where?
Yeah I would love to see this....
I confused the White Dwarf leak from Reddit. I thought it was from their facebook page, my bad. That WD info has been confirmed as mentioned earlier. If you know that Imperial Agents was a regular faction in 2nd Edition - like Genestealer Cults for example - and you read the extracts from White Dwarf it is clear GW brings back that faction. Like if they wrote about Genestealer Cults. But even then some jumped to the conclusion it would be a Tyranid update which it wasnt (for obvious reasons) but a fully fleshed out GSC force on its own. Imperial Agents is another army GW brings back
What Master Sheol posted (while I slept) is what I meant with my comment
master sheol wrote: Most people here are speculating wildly cause they never played second edition of 40K...
In the second edition starter box (2nd Battle of Armageddon Orks vs BA) there was a book called: CODEX ARMY LISTS including temporary lists for all armies until individual codices were released...
SM and IG armies could spend 25% of their points in allies taken from a list called IMPERIAL AGENTS...
This list was including:
Adeptus Arbites
Adeptus Mechanicus
Adeptus Ministrorum
Adeptus Astra Telepathica
Officio Assassinorum
Inquisition
Grey Knights
in third edition GW introduced the Deathwatch too as a single alliable KIll Team (one single squad for each imperial army)
Now i guess the new codex Imperial Agents will be VERY similar to that list... For example i dont think we will see Adeptus Arbites (they are more suited for a game like Necromunda) but we will get things like Deathwatch, Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence...
So there is still room for a full SoB codex...
When you are in doubt about theGW of these days look back to 40k from RT to third edition and you will have the reply...
Arbitrator wrote: We know that 8th is coming soon. They may not want to release a new Sisters of Battle 'dex before then, but throwing their existing rules into Codex: Allies of Space Marines (because we know that's what it's really meant to be for) may tempt people to 'wet their palette' a little and be more inclined to buy the full release later.
This wouldn't really fit as they aren't agents, they are just a police force. You would call people working for the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, KGB etc Agents but not anyone from the local police force. Also there are no models for them so they wouldn't be in the book (unless we'd see a release for them in Dec).
Arbites are the Imperium's FBI though. Local police are whoever/whatever the government there raise locally as enforcers and their authority extends to that planet alone, whilst Arbites maintain the much smaller - better trained and equipped - federal' force who are there enforce Imperial law, such as making sure tithes are met, keeping an eye on planetary governors, etc.
In many ways, Arbites are the perfect fluffy foil to things like Genestealer or Chaos cults.
Welp, can't get any more certain than that. Straight from a WD picture.
Now I just need to wait for the rumoured plastic SoB squad and canoness to throw YET more money at GW ... (I am so curious to read more about the Astra Telephatica. I hope the book brings lots of fluff and pretty pics!)
Capamaru wrote: So this might actually contain formations for GK.
Hopefully yes and for Sisters!!
I think it may be formations that contain a vairety of different subfactions and as they are the same codex would allow for Inquisitors to hitch a lift with other Imeprial agents and their flyers / drop pods etc?
So... cautiously optimistic about the Chaos Legions book.
On the one hand, the Legion specific rules cited in the post by San Panda would certainly make Chaos more interesting to play. OTOH, the rules listed would have little impact unless there was an accompanying change in points cost.
Thousand Sons, for instance, seem like a great force with the new models, until you stop to think what a unit of Rubric marines actually costs. If we are adding the costs of 5 flamers and heavy weapons to the squad, it becomes impossible to field a large force of them.
I want to see the points for all this before I get my hopes up. Points costs could be achieved by literally altering the points for certain units, or through formations that modify what it costs for each. I am envisioning a book with a lot of formations and some chapter specific rules that keep the current costs for models and add a tax for some units no one likes to play.
This has much less detail in it than the description of wrath of magnus we saw in the other thread. Strange that it's called codex but it says hardly anything about actual rules and refers to "your existing armies" which I would read as "you still need the other codices".
Sgt. Cortez wrote: This has much less detail in it than the description of wrath of magnus we saw in the other thread. Strange that it's called codex but it says hardly anything about actual rules and refers to "your existing armies" which I would read as "you still need the other codices".
For the main army, of course. For the flavour units in this Codex, of course not. It'll be full rules for the units within, anything else is loopy.
techsoldaten wrote: So... cautiously optimistic about the Chaos Legions book.
On the one hand, the Legion specific rules cited in the post by San Panda would certainly make Chaos more interesting to play. OTOH, the rules listed would have little impact unless there was an accompanying change in points cost.
Thousand Sons, for instance, seem like a great force with the new models, until you stop to think what a unit of Rubric marines actually costs. If we are adding the costs of 5 flamers and heavy weapons to the squad, it becomes impossible to field a large force of them.
I want to see the points for all this before I get my hopes up. Points costs could be achieved by literally altering the points for certain units, or through formations that modify what it costs for each. I am envisioning a book with a lot of formations and some chapter specific rules that keep the current costs for models and add a tax for some units no one likes to play.
Those don't really count as "updates"... more like afterthoughts.
This a guess, but with the clear indication that it contains something for Grey Knights and Deathwatch, I think in addition to formations to cover those books we'll see some sort of single unit killteam entry for each that can be taken in a way similar to Assassins, without any requisites and in addition to normal allies being taken. Maybe something that reflects the old DW kill team rules with assault weapons and a character mixed into that single entry... or the much older GK rules representing a single unit attached to an army that was 3 GK terminators that were straight up librarians.
All tied together as the typical allied forms that might assist an Inquisitor as opposed to the full mobilization of an army.
Well, to be fair, Sisters have had one or two updates in that time.
"to be fair"? How about unfair, the rules in the 3E Witch Hunter codex are arguably better than in the WD and Digital. WD made the army allot worse, Digital made it even worse still. Faith system which is the one thing that makes Sisters unique borders on useless for most units... Canoness, your army HQ, gets Hatred for one phase because close combat is exactly where you want to be with your WS3 S3 T3 I3 1A army. Celestian command squed, the most veteran of veteran sisters get Move Through Cover for one phase... wow... really?
Witch Hunter codex rules with points costs from the digital would create a much better codex. For the love of the Emperor why does an Eviscerator cost 30pts?! A SM pays the same for a chainfist (which an Eviscerator is) but theirs is S8 Ap2 whilst the sisters is S6 Ap2. A Repentia model costs 15pts and comes with one!
The WD and Digital Sororitas Codexes are complete garbage, I doubt GW will make them any better. Heck it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the rules in the Agents of the Imperium were copy paste from the digital which in turn would keep the sisters in their doodoo tier of armies. New models are the only thing we have to look forwards to because GW have been notoriously bad at writing good rules for the sisters...
Capamaru wrote: So this might actually contain formations for GK.
Or just Grey Knight Terminators and that is it. That is all they mentioned so to specifically mention just Termiantors, I think that is what will be in it. Rest you will need the Grey Knight Codex.
Well, to be fair, Sisters have had one or two updates in that time.
"to be fair"? How about unfair, the rules in the 3E Witch Hunter codex are arguably better than in the WD and Digital. WD made the army allot worse, Digital made it even worse still. Faith system which is the one thing that makes Sisters unique borders on useless for most units... Canoness, your army HQ, gets Hatred for one phase because close combat is exactly where you want to be with your WS3 S3 T3 I3 1A army. Celestian command squed, the most veteran of veteran sisters get Move Through Cover for one phase... wow... really?
Witch Hunter codex rules with points costs from the digital would create a much better codex. For the love of the Emperor why does an Eviscerator cost 30pts?! A SM pays the same for a chainfist (which an Eviscerator is) but theirs is S8 Ap2 whilst the sisters is S6 Ap2. A Repentia model costs 15pts and comes with one!
The WD and Digital Sororitas Codexes are complete garbage, I doubt GW will make them any better. Heck it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the rules in the Agents of the Imperium were copy paste from the digital which in turn would keep the sisters in their doodoo tier of armies. New models are the only thing we have to look forwards to because GW have been notoriously bad at writing good rules for the sisters...
Here is a flip trough of December WD
So I don't know much about the Witch Hunter codex other than the fact that I hate the idea of it and don't want to pretend half my book doesn't exist because I want to play my army as being Sisters of Battle. BUT, I can tell you that having both the 5th and 6th Codexes, the 6th is infinitely better.
Sure 6th is largely overcosted, takes away the older faith system(which ultimately wasn't super fantastic anyway, especially in larger games) and drops some options but at least what was left had SOME teeth. Dominions are still great, Immolators are way better than razorbacks and can, yunno, fit battle sisters in them, they might not be as good as when they were fast but they're still perfectly fine. Exorcists are solid, battle sisters themselves aren't terrible and overall the 6th ed book just works better than the 5th did. Is it a great codex? No, but it's on the same tier level as CSM, DE, Orks, and Nids. Admittedly each of those got a single really broken thing in them (Flyrants, Heldrakes, Corpse Thief Claw, incredibly monobuild Decurion) that sisters didn't get an equivalent of but considering Sisters are still the only faction in the game that has only CAD+Allies available to them, they do okay. Hell, play Oldhammer and they do just fine against not-eldar and not-C:SM.
Crazyterran wrote: Nah your lit above is probably right, unless the Sisters of Silence just get rolled in with the telepathica as a faction.
I think they will just put the Inquisition Codex in the new book, and update and/or remove things, like Chimera fire points (my Jokaero kill team, nooo) and getting rid of psybolt ammo.
Edit: if they do Knights in there, maybe it will be a Freeblade that can be mixed and matched like the Chaos Knights?
If they roll Sisters of Silence in with the telepathica, perhaps they'll go for the return of the Planetary Defense Force rules?
ERJAK wrote: So I don't know much about the Witch Hunter codex other than the fact that I hate the idea of it and don't want to pretend half my book doesn't exist because I want to play my army as being Sisters of Battle. BUT, I can tell you that having both the 5th and 6th Codexes, the 6th is infinitely better.
Sure 6th is largely overcosted, takes away the older faith system(which ultimately wasn't super fantastic anyway, especially in larger games) and drops some options but at least what was left had SOME teeth. Dominions are still great, Immolators are way better than razorbacks and can, yunno, fit battle sisters in them, they might not be as good as when they were fast but they're still perfectly fine. Exorcists are solid, battle sisters themselves aren't terrible and overall the 6th ed book just works better than the 5th did. Is it a great codex? No, but it's on the same tier level as CSM, DE, Orks, and Nids. Admittedly each of those got a single really broken thing in them (Flyrants, Heldrakes, Corpse Thief Claw, incredibly monobuild Decurion) that sisters didn't get an equivalent of but considering Sisters are still the only faction in the game that has only CAD+Allies available to them, they do okay. Hell, play Oldhammer and they do just fine against not-eldar and not-C:SM.
Inquisitorial part of the codex was really small and limited, it was there for you to create a very fluffy army and it did the job pretty well. Units in brackets are just suggestions from the developers on how you could model your units or what units to use to represent them.
Here is what was in the Witch Hunter Codex:
Inquisition HQ - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord: 3-12 units of Henchmen for a Lord, 0-6 for an Inquisitor
Inquisitorial Henchmen: Acolyte, Sage (Sister Dialogous), Warrior (Veteran Guardsman/Combat Servitor/Gun Servitor/Crusader, Familiar (Cherubim/Servo-Skull/Psyber-Eagle), Penitent (psyker), Chirurgeon (Torturer/Excoriator/Sister Hospitaller)
Troop - Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Elite - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor
Transport - Land Raider
Officio Assassinorum Operative Culexus, Callidus, Eversor and Vindicare
Adepta Sororitas HQ - Adepta Sororitas Heroine: Canoness and Palatine (Canoness cost 10pts more and had +1A and +1Ld)
Non HQ - 0-5 Priests
Troop - Battle Sisters Squad
Elite - Arco-flagellants
Elite - Celestian Squad
Elite - 0-1 Sister Repentia
Elite - Death-Cult Assassins <- Inq unit?
Transport - Chimera
Transport - Rhino
FA - Seraphim
FA - Dominion Squad
HS - Retributor
HS - Immolator
HS - Exorcist
HS - Penitent Engine
HS - 0-1 Orbital Strike (Yes, you had to buy orbital strikes as heavy support)
Special Characters Inquisitor Lord Karamazov
Saint Celestine
Codex also contained rules for adversaries of the sisters.
HQ - 0-1 Rogue Psyker
HQ - 0-1 Apostate Cardinal
Troop - Mutants (Guardsmen with T4 and 2A)
Troop - Traitors (Basically guardsmen)
What made the WH codex so much better than what we have now were the Acts of Faith, the system was far superior to the WD (basically 1FP per Faithful unit and you gained +1 for every Faithful unit destroyed). What you need to remember is that ANY Adepta Sororitas model could use these Acts of Faith. What they did in the WD and Digital was basically hand out the Acts of Faiths to different units. This in turn results in some units having an Act of Faith that is either completely useless or doesn't even work (Dominions with flamers...).
Hand of the Emperor - Either players Assault phase
+2S but strike at I1
Divine Guidance - Either players Assault phase/own Shooting phase - Do test after having rolled your to hit
Rolls to wound on 6s count as Ap1
The Passion - Either players Assault phase
+2I, does not affect weapons that reduce you to I1
Light of the Emperor - Own Movement Phase
Fearless until next movement phase. If falling back the unit regroups and becomes Fearless for the turn.
Spirit of the Marty - Enemy Shooting Phase or either players Assault phase
Unit gains an invulnerable save equal to its normal Armour save
Acts of Faith are suppose to be small miracles that occur on the battlefield, the WH codex represented this allot better than the WD or Digital. I guess they thought these Acts of Faith were too powerful for the current ruleset. +2S or +2I in assault is pretty meh but it does help a little vs Guardmen equivalents. Move Through Cover and Fearless are very situational but could help under those circumstances. "Rending" and Inv save equal to Armour are the good ones that would help sisters allot. If these were the current Acts of Faith with the once per game thing the Sisters would be allot better at pretty much everything, they would still be bad but it would help.
Roknar wrote: Intersting. At the very end of the video there is a page about codex:CSM and that you will need it to play with Magnus and freinds.
Of course you do, they're not going to copy paste all the tanks and stuff.
I dunno, that seems a bit unprofessoinal even for GW. Release a new faction, but not give it a codex AND rely on the codex of a different faction to use this new faction in it's entirety?
Plus they've repeatedly shown that they have no qualms about copy pasting units from other sources and even selling them as "new".
So simply requiring codex : CSM to include the odd unit from there seems unlikely to me.
Now if that's not the reason you require codex: CSM, then what do you need it for? They seem to be their own faction, so I'm really curious in which way they would be linked to codex: CSM. You could always be right, but that would be really dissapointing.
Roknar wrote: I dunno, that seems a bit unprofessoinal even for GW. Release a new faction, but not give it a codex AND rely on the codex of a different faction to use this new faction in it's entirety?
Welcome to 7th Edition. As hopelessly bloated and unwieldy as 3rd Ed towards its end.
Here is what was in the Witch Hunter Codex:
Inquisition - Force must include Inquisitor Lord or Inquisitor to take (exception for Inquisitorial Storm Troopers)
HQ - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord: 3-12 units of Henchmen for a Lord, 0-6 for an Inquisitor
Inquisitorial Henchmen: Acolyte, Sage (Sister Dialogous), Warrior (Veteran Guardsman/Combat Servitor/Gun Servitor/Crusader, Familiar (Cherubim/Servo-Skull/Psyber-Eagle), Penitent (psyker), Chirurgeon (Torturer/Excoriator/Sister Hospitaller)
Troop - Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Elite - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor
Elite - Officio Assassinorum Operative: Culexus, Callidus, Eversor or Vindicare
HS - 0-1 Orbital Strike (Yes, you had to buy orbital strikes as heavy support)
Transport - Chimera
Transport - Land Raider
Ecclesiarchy - Force must include Priest to take any
Non HQ - 0-5 Priests
Elite - Arco-flagellants
Elite - Death-Cult Assassins
HS - Penitent Engine
Adepta Sororitas HQ - Adepta Sororitas Heroine: Canoness and Palatine (Canoness cost 10pts more and had +1A and +1Ld)
Troop - Battle Sisters Squad
Elite - Celestian Squad
Elite - 0-1 Sister Repentia
Transport - Rhino
FA - Seraphim
FA - Dominion Squad
HS - Retributor
HS - Immolator (also Transport, must include Adepta Sororities unit to take)
HS - Exorcist
Special Characters Inquisitor Lord Karamazov
Saint Celestine
Codex also contained rules for adversaries of the sisters.
HQ - 0-1 Rogue Psyker
HQ - 0-1 Apostate Cardinal
Troop - Mutants (Guardsmen with T4 and 2A)
Troop - Traitors (Basically guardsmen)
What made the WH codex so much better than what we have now were the Acts of Faith, the system was far superior to the WD (basically 1FP per Faithful unit and you gained +1 for every Faithful unit destroyed). What you need to remember is that ANY Adepta Sororitas model could use these Acts of Faith. What they did in the WD and Digital was basically hand out the Acts of Faiths to different units. This in turn results in some units having an Act of Faith that is either completely useless or doesn't even work (Dominions with flamers...).
Hand of the Emperor - Either players Assault phase
+2S but strike at I1
Divine Guidance - Either players Assault phase/own Shooting phase - Do test after having rolled your to hit
Rolls to wound on 6s count as Ap1
The Passion - Either players Assault phase
+2I, does not affect weapons that reduce you to I1
Light of the Emperor - Own Movement Phase
Fearless until next movement phase. If falling back the unit regroups and becomes Fearless for the turn.
Spirit of the Marty - Enemy Shooting Phase or either players Assault phase
Unit gains an invulnerable save equal to its normal Armour save
Acts of Faith are suppose to be small miracles that occur on the battlefield, the WH codex represented this allot better than the WD or Digital. I guess they thought these Acts of Faith were too powerful for the current ruleset. +2S or +2I in assault is pretty meh but it does help a little vs Guardmen equivalents. Move Through Cover and Fearless are very situational but could help under those circumstances. "Rending" and Inv save equal to Armour are the good ones that would help sisters allot. If these were the current Acts of Faith with the once per game thing the Sisters would be allot better at pretty much everything, they would still be bad but it would help.
Spirit of the Marty - Enemy Shooting Phase or either players Assault phase
Unit gains an invulnerable save equal to its normal Armour save
I love that you didn't correct "Spirit of the Marty."
I just pulled out my Codex Witch Hunters to relive the magic as well.
I was thrown for a loop though when you listed only Celestine and Karamazov as named characters because I could have sworn Jacobus and Kyrinov were in it too, but I'm probably just remembering seeing the models online back during 4e.
Personally I'm putting my faith in Atia being on point about a full SoB army in Jan-Feb of next year with the Imperial Agents entry being just a small taste, however I'm sadly thinking that even with a full rerelease we'll probably lose almost all of our special characters due to having metal/resin models. Which I suppose isn't really a bad thing so long as we get new ones to replace them.
Roknar wrote: I dunno, that seems a bit unprofessoinal even for GW. Release a new faction, but not give it a codex AND rely on the codex of a different faction to use this new faction in it's entirety?
Welcome to 7th Edition. As hopelessly bloated and unwieldy as 3rd Ed towards its end.
Tournament 3rd edition was nowhere near as stupid as tournament 7th.
Personally I've no idea what GW is doing. They're bloating 7th edition as much as possible, before killing it, and replacing it with Age of 40K -- A game where rules for all 40K armies can be found in one compilation book?
Personally I've no idea what GW is doing. They're bloating 7th edition as much as possible, before killing it, and replacing it with Age of 40K -- A game where rules for all 40K armies can be found in one compilation book?
Roknar wrote: I dunno, that seems a bit unprofessoinal even for GW. Release a new faction, but not give it a codex AND rely on the codex of a different faction to use this new faction in it's entirety?
Welcome to 7th Edition. As hopelessly bloated and unwieldy as 3rd Ed towards its end.
Tournament 3rd edition was nowhere near as stupid as tournament 7th.
Personally I've no idea what GW is doing. They're bloating 7th edition as much as possible, before killing it, and replacing it with Age of 40K -- A game where rules for all 40K armies can be found in one compilation book?
Do you want new models with no rules? Because that's how you get new models with no rules.
And we don't really know how GW intends to handle army books next edition.
cuda1179 wrote: I just want there to be rules for Karamazov. That walking throne thing was AWESOME! I don't even care that it was sub-optimal.
There are current rules for Karamazov in the Inquisition digital Codex.
I am asking myself if they just reprint the rules for the INQ units. But probably they change some, especially the Chimera. In the current INQ codex it has 5 firepoints, sof five Jokaero in a CHimera are very deadly (5 lascannons in a chimera)
Karamazov is still probably my favourite special character. He's not particularly competative but has some of the funniest special rules in the game. Being able to call down orbital srikes on your own units (and not scattering) can lead to some rather hilarious tactics...
There won't be any new stuff for the other Legions beyond army-wide rules/relics/more tables to roll on/some formations because there are no new models for them.
I'm suspecting there to be no units at all in traitor legions. I think they're only going to be in wrath of magnus. I have a feeling they might be testing the waters on a new approach to codices.
nudibranch wrote: Karamazov is still probably my favourite special character. He's not particularly competative but has some of the funniest special rules in the game. Being able to call down orbital srikes on your own units (and not scattering) can lead to some rather hilarious tactics...
The last time I used Karamazov was with the WitchHunters codex. After some reading I found out that due to a rules loophole (because of the Henchmen rules) he also comes with a laspistol that wasn't included on his profile. It isn't groundbreaking, but did grant him an extra close combat attack and allowed him to shoot a second weapon. Admittedly a laspistol isn't great, but hey, better than nothing.
ShaneMarsh wrote: I really do enjoy the Imperial Agents concept. I'll be getting it. I just hope it isn't everything we'll see for Sisters.
We have just seen the releases for the new Traitor book, got info today that we will be seeing blue horrors and brimstone horrors (parhaps a combo box or 1 box for blue and 1 small (Nurglings) for Brimstone Horrors. Christmas collection bundles have been revealed so pretty much everything up until Dec 17 has been revealed (There should be no pre-orders going up on the 17th because Christmas is the week after and GW has never (to my knowledge) released anything brand new on Christmas). This should mean the next thing that is revealed would be the Blue Horrors/Brimstone Horror box and then the Sisters of Battle stuff.
Perhaps that staff that was revealed the other day is from the Blue Horror box?
ShaneMarsh wrote: I really do enjoy the Imperial Agents concept. I'll be getting it. I just hope it isn't everything we'll see for Sisters.
We have just seen the releases for the new Traitor book, got info today that we will be seeing blue horrors and brimstone horrors (parhaps a combo box or 1 box for blue and 1 small (Nurglings) for Brimstone Horrors. Christmas collection bundles have been revealed so pretty much everything up until Dec 17 has been revealed (There should be no pre-orders going up on the 17th because Christmas is the week after and GW has never (to my knowledge) released anything brand new on Christmas).
This should mean the next thing that is revealed would be the Blue Horrors/Brimstone Horror box and then the Sisters of Battle stuff.
Perhaps that staff that was revealed the other day is from the Blue Horror box?
I've had confidence we'll see a new Sisters codex eventually for years. Imperial Agents is really cool, so even if that was all we got I'd still the book. But as long as people are confident that we will see a full Sisters codex soonish, then I go from excited for this book to absolutely pumped for this book and the upcoming Sisters.
ShaneMarsh wrote: I really do enjoy the Imperial Agents concept. I'll be getting it. I just hope it isn't everything we'll see for Sisters.
We have just seen the releases for the new Traitor book, got info today that we will be seeing blue horrors and brimstone horrors (parhaps a combo box or 1 box for blue and 1 small (Nurglings) for Brimstone Horrors. Christmas collection bundles have been revealed so pretty much everything up until Dec 17 has been revealed (There should be no pre-orders going up on the 17th because Christmas is the week after and GW has never (to my knowledge) released anything brand new on Christmas).
This should mean the next thing that is revealed would be the Blue Horrors/Brimstone Horror box and then the Sisters of Battle stuff.
Perhaps that staff that was revealed the other day is from the Blue Horror box?
I've had confidence we'll see a new Sisters codex eventually for years. Imperial Agents is really cool, so even if that was all we got I'd still the book. But as long as people are confident that we will see a full Sisters codex soonish, then I go from excited for this book to absolutely pumped for this book and the upcoming Sisters.
We'll know if sisters are coming out in january as soon as IA drops. The sisters in there will either be new models new rules(awesome) new models old rules(i'll take it), old models new rules (bit disappointing) or old models old rules (months wait if they ever release). As soon as it comes out we'll know
H.B.M.C. wrote: Very glad I ordered extra Blue Horrors and Brimstone bases a while back.
Pfft, it's only worth doing if you overdo it! Here comes an army of 100 Pink Horrors! Oh? Your Eldar scatbiks killed a whole unit of 20? Then how about 40 Blue Horrors! You killed those as well? Then feast your eyes on ANOTHER 40 BRIMSTONE HORRORS!!! How many wounds will Brimstone Horrors be anyway? Will they be swarm? They are small enough? So perhaps 2w per base since there are 2 on each base? If so then 100 Pink Horrors equal 700 wounds (100 Pink Horrors, 200 Blue Horrors, 400 Brimstone Horrors). Don't forget the reason to take an army like this would be... TO SUMMON MORE PINK HORRORS!!! With the current pts costs this detachment would cost 945pts
Spoiler:
I feel really old for posting this, if you don't understand it they you were born mid 90s
I don't know the Silver Tower rules for Brimstone Horrors, having a hard time thinking of what profile they would have... BS/W/S/T/I/W/A of 2? In close combat do they simply run up to a model and explode for a S3 Ap- auto hit?
I'll admit I bought one extra set of Blue Horrors and 2 extra sets of Brimstone Horrors. I think Brimstone Horrors are fantastic little things. It's nice when GW adds something to the lore that just fits so well.
I've had confidence we'll see a new Sisters codex eventually for years. Imperial Agents is really cool, so even if that was all we got I'd still the book. But as long as people are confident that we will see a full Sisters codex soonish, then I go from excited for this book to absolutely pumped for this book and the upcoming Sisters.
We'll know if sisters are coming out in january as soon as IA drops. The sisters in there will either be new models new rules(awesome) new models old rules(i'll take it), old models new rules (bit disappointing) or old models old rules (months wait if they ever release). As soon as it comes out we'll know
When you look at what GWs done in the last year there has been a bunch of selling rule content in repeated in multiple books. For SoB it gives them the opportunity to release more than just the standard 8 kit release. They can release the basic kits after the Imperial Agents and then the rest withtge proper Codex.
There is no way GW is releasing Old models + new rules. They use rules as a bonus prize for spending money, not as a way to actually make a coherent game.
Kirasu wrote: There is no way GW is releasing Old models + new rules. They use rules as a bonus prize for spending money, not as a way to actually make a coherent game.
As cute as the whole 'bitter crusader' act is, they've already done that to sisters. In every codex since 2nd ed actually. With a few exceptions, pretty much every model you can buy retail still was in the 2nd ed codex.
Kirasu wrote: There is no way GW is releasing Old models + new rules. They use rules as a bonus prize for spending money, not as a way to actually make a coherent game.
As cute as the whole 'bitter crusader' act is, they've already done that to sisters. In every codex since 2nd ed actually. With a few exceptions, pretty much every model you can buy retail still was in the 2nd ed codex.
Not so much.
Codex Chapter Approved had Reds.
Codex: Witchhunters had a butt-ton of new minis.
Kirasu wrote: There is no way GW is releasing Old models + new rules. They use rules as a bonus prize for spending money, not as a way to actually make a coherent game.
As cute as the whole 'bitter crusader' act is, they've already done that to sisters. In every codex since 2nd ed actually. With a few exceptions, pretty much every model you can buy retail still was in the 2nd ed codex.
I figured it was obvious I meant in this century. IE current GW.
Would be weird to get a book reprinting the rules for a book coming out a week later. but I guess it would still be worth the buy for the demon stuff for people. Or if your a 1ksons player and know you don't need anything from the other legions.
Lockark wrote: Would be weird to get a book reprinting the rules for a book coming out a week later. but I guess it would still be worth the buy for the demon stuff for people. Or if your a 1ksons player and know you don't need anything from the other legions.
That's effectively what happened to the Tau codex though. The Kauyon stuff came out only a week or so later in the updated Codex. And Wrath of Magnus has a lot of Tzeentch Daemon stuff that probably won't be in the Traitor Legion book either. So it isn't like people that bought Wrath of Magnus will be left out in the cold. Especially when a lot of the product is fluff with only a small amount of rules.
I keep coming back in here hoping someone has posted some info about the Imperial Agents codex. Before this Saturday we should have allot more info and pictures of new Sisters models.
Everything up to Dec 17 has pretty much been revealed so this leaves the Dec 31 release, GW has never released anything on Christmas day though it would be cool if we got pre-orders for Sisters on the 17 with a release on the 24th. Would be a nightmare though as all stores and post offices would be closed so you wouldn't be able to buy any of it.
Will GW release new kits on the 24th and 31th of December? Seems unlikely because those days are red days so not many shops will be open.
Kirasu wrote: There is no way GW is releasing Old models + new rules. They use rules as a bonus prize for spending money, not as a way to actually make a coherent game.
As cute as the whole 'bitter crusader' act is, they've already done that to sisters. In every codex since 2nd ed actually. With a few exceptions, pretty much every model you can buy retail still was in the 2nd ed codex.
I figured it was obvious I meant in this century. IE current GW.
2013 wasn't this century? Cause that's when the codex dropped. But I guess that was a few years ago so how about Traitors Hate, Angel's blade, Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, The FAQ changing the number of attacks dreadnoughts have.
Lockark wrote: Would be weird to get a book reprinting the rules for a book coming out a week later. but I guess it would still be worth the buy for the demon stuff for people. Or if your a 1ksons player and know you don't need anything from the other legions.
That's effectively what happened to the Tau codex though. The Kauyon stuff came out only a week or so later in the updated Codex. And Wrath of Magnus has a lot of Tzeentch Daemon stuff that probably won't be in the Traitor Legion book either. So it isn't like people that bought Wrath of Magnus will be left out in the cold. Especially when a lot of the product is fluff with only a small amount of rules.
Storm Trooper codex too, but for the warlord traits it was reprinted a week or two later in the Imperial Guard book (sorry can't be bothered to look up the dog latin names)
The Storm Trooper codex has unique warlord traits, new orders and formations not found in the Guard codex. Not enough to set it apart from the main codex, but still there.
MadCowCrazy wrote: I keep coming back in here hoping someone has posted some info about the Imperial Agents codex. Before this Saturday we should have allot more info and pictures of new Sisters models.
Everything up to Dec 17 has pretty much been revealed so this leaves the Dec 31 release, GW has never released anything on Christmas day though it would be cool if we got pre-orders for Sisters on the 17 with a release on the 24th. Would be a nightmare though as all stores and post offices would be closed so you wouldn't be able to buy any of it.
Will GW release new kits on the 24th and 31th of December? Seems unlikely because those days are red days so not many shops will be open.
Release on the 17th then nothing until New Year most likely; with the Christmas holidays and all that there's no realistic way in getting peoples mail orders to them through the post.
MadCowCrazy wrote: I keep coming back in here hoping someone has posted some info about the Imperial Agents codex. Before this Saturday we should have allot more info and pictures of new Sisters models.
Everything up to Dec 17 has pretty much been revealed so this leaves the Dec 31 release, GW has never released anything on Christmas day though it would be cool if we got pre-orders for Sisters on the 17 with a release on the 24th. Would be a nightmare though as all stores and post offices would be closed so you wouldn't be able to buy any of it.
Will GW release new kits on the 24th and 31th of December? Seems unlikely because those days are red days so not many shops will be open.
Release on the 17th then nothing until New Year most likely; with the Christmas holidays and all that there's no realistic way in getting peoples mail orders to them through the post.
LordShaft..
The beginning of December is packed for a reason. GW had a terrible December last year ( which is the best month for most uk retail companies). They are trying to fill the shelves with as many tempting Christmas present type items as possible. Even if the logistics were not a nightmare, Christmas Eve is the worst time to release something new as people would not have time to buy it. The January White dwarf will not release until January 6th so I would not expect a release until then.
The only possibility for the rumoured Cannoness is that they sneak it out alongside the imperial agents book.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Late to the party, in the Imperial Agents are there Scions?
We really don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I am just curious, if this is the case, if those hack frauds bothered to add new orders (or rework them) and change point costs or will just repackage the list and call it a day.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Late to the party, in the Imperial Agents are there Scions?
I believe the WD said the following:
Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor’s most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you’ll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
So from this we have the following armies:
1. Inquisition
2. Adeptus Astra Telepathica
3. Deathwatch Kill Teams
4. Imperial Assassins
5. Grey Knight Terminator Squads
6. Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas
7.
8.
9.
Other mentions have been Custodes and Sisters of Silence. Wild guesses have been about Imperial Knights, Scions, Admech, Skitarii etc. How many of these are smaller factions though? My personal vote is on Custodes, SoS and Scions/Knights.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Late to the party, in the Imperial Agents are there Scions?
I believe the WD said the following:
Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor’s most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you’ll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.
So from this we have the following armies:
1. Inquisition
2. Adeptus Astra Telepathica
3. Deathwatch Kill Teams
4. Imperial Assassins
5. Grey Knight Terminator Squads
6. Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas
7.
8.
9.
Other mentions have been Custodes and Sisters of Silence. Wild guesses have been about Imperial Knights, Scions, Admech, Skitarii etc. How many of these are smaller factions though? My personal vote is on Custodes, SoS and Scions/Knights.
On the GW facebook page a guy mentioned that some warehouse had said they have all the new Sister kits in stock and waiting for GW to give them the go ahead to start shipping them out. Anyone heard this and know the source?
Adam Poultney: And the fact that we have info that some warehouse somewhere accidentally told a store that they have them, but are just waiting for GW to tell them they van give them to stores...
MadCowCrazy wrote: On the GW facebook page a guy mentioned that some warehouse had said they have all the new Sister kits in stock and waiting for GW to give them the go ahead to start shipping them out. Anyone heard this and know the source?
Adam Poultney: And the fact that we have info that some warehouse somewhere accidentally told a store that they have them, but are just waiting for GW to tell them they van give them to stores...
Would be interesting to hear if there's more on this.
MadCowCrazy wrote: I keep coming back in here hoping someone has posted some info about the Imperial Agents codex. Before this Saturday we should have allot more info and pictures of new Sisters models.
Everything up to Dec 17 has pretty much been revealed so this leaves the Dec 31 release, GW has never released anything on Christmas day though it would be cool if we got pre-orders for Sisters on the 17 with a release on the 24th. Would be a nightmare though as all stores and post offices would be closed so you wouldn't be able to buy any of it.
Will GW release new kits on the 24th and 31th of December? Seems unlikely because those days are red days so not many shops will be open.
I would honestly wait until at least mid next week before getting too involved.
The Traitor Legions are out first and nobody has revealed anything really about that yet.
I do not believe there will all of the sudden be a bounty for Imperial Agents when everything else has been so tight.
Kaiyanwang wrote: Late to the party, in the Imperial Agents are there Scions?
...
So from this we have the following armies:
1. Inquisition
2. Adeptus Astra Telepathica
3. Deathwatch Kill Teams
4. Imperial Assassins
5. Grey Knight Terminator Squads
6. Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas
7.
8.
9.
Other mentions have been Custodes and Sisters of Silence. Wild guesses have been about Imperial Knights, Scions, Admech, Skitarii etc. How many of these are smaller factions though? My personal vote is on Custodes, SoS and Scions/Knights.
legion of damned could be in there as well
One of them is supposedly the Ecclesiarchy, the non Sister of Battle units from that codex.
MadCowCrazy wrote: On the GW facebook page a guy mentioned that some warehouse had said they have all the new Sister kits in stock and waiting for GW to give them the go ahead to start shipping them out. Anyone heard this and know the source?
Adam Poultney: And the fact that we have info that some warehouse somewhere accidentally told a store that they have them, but are just waiting for GW to tell them they van give them to stores...
Would be interesting to hear if there's more on this.
It is dangerously close to, Pics or it didn't happen.
We're getting dangerously close to Christmas now. I'm intrigued to see if they squeeze another release in before the end of the year.
Has anyone seen this yet? Deathguard Green was listed as a base colour in GW's 2016 Christmas Gift guide.
So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Oooohh no I had not seen that yet, thanks for posting, surely a sign Deathguard will be getting a release. I know Atia made comments on Mortarion and stuff but didn't think there would be new Deathguard. Nurgle has always grossed me out too much to actually want an army but I always loved the metal DG unit, would love to see new ones in plastic, especially after the quality of the TS.
darkmarauder wrote: We're getting dangerously close to Christmas now. I'm intrigued to see if they squeeze another release in before the end of the year.
Has anyone seen this yet? Deathguard Green was listed as a base colour in GW's 2016 Christmas Gift guide.
Can confirm this.
Deathguard, Ahriman Blue, and Thousand Sons are the only three new paints I could find in the gift guide.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anpu-adom wrote: So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Just going to say, it's not a "guess" regarding those.
Astra Telepathica is confirmed, it was in the blurbs we got early on. Same with Deathwatch, Assassins, Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Sisters.
unmercifulconker wrote: Oooohh no I had not seen that yet, thanks for posting, surely a sign Deathguard will be getting a release.
No worries! Same here, I really hope so. Seems like a strange thing to include in the guide if we don't see them soon. Saying that though, GW's social media/marketing team are killing it lately with the community interaction, so it might just be a tease.
Anpu-adom wrote: So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters. Needs plastic infantry.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Just going to say, it's not a "guess" regarding those.
Astra Telepathica is confirmed, it was in the blurbs we got early on. Same with Deathwatch, Assassins, Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Sisters.
Fine... Confirmed. I'm guessing on kits.
Guesses:
Custodes are ok. Could use some characters, but how much is Forgeworld going to do?
Scions are ok.
Knights are ok.
Legion of the Damned are ok.
Sisters of Silence are ok. Could use some characters, but what about Forgeworld here too?
Arbites - Need a squad and clamshell commander
So, for the confirmed forces, we need:
2 plastic basic infantry kits (IQ henchmen and sisters)
1 Character (Cannoness rumors)
1 3-person set of psychers.
For the guesses, the only one that would really need a lot of support is Arbites. They share a vehicle with the sisters (Repressor) and Guard (bunch of stuff), so a plastic Repressor kit would serve both well.
Anpu-adom wrote: So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters. Needs plastic infantry.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Just going to say, it's not a "guess" regarding those.
Astra Telepathica is confirmed, it was in the blurbs we got early on. Same with Deathwatch, Assassins, Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Sisters.
Fine... Confirmed. I'm guessing on kits.
Guesses:
Custodes are ok. Could use some characters, but how much is Forgeworld going to do?
Scions are ok.
Knights are ok.
Legion of the Damned are ok.
Sisters of Silence are ok. Could use some characters, but what about Forgeworld here too?
Arbites - Need a squad and clamshell commander
So, for the confirmed forces, we need:
2 plastic basic infantry kits (IQ henchmen and sisters)
1 Character (Cannoness rumors)
1 3-person set of psychers.
For the guesses, the only one that would really need a lot of support is Arbites. They share a vehicle with the sisters (Repressor) and Guard (bunch of stuff), so a plastic Repressor kit would serve both well.
Who says they need characters for anything?
Custodes and Sisters of Silence(and IMO, the Scions), if in, are likely in the same way it mentions Deathwatch and Grey Knights: Individual squads.
Everything about this book, in terms of the way it has been getting previewed/showcased, suggests a book that is intended to provide Allied formations/Detachments rather than playable armies.
Anpu-adom wrote: So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters. Needs plastic infantry.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Just going to say, it's not a "guess" regarding those.
Astra Telepathica is confirmed, it was in the blurbs we got early on. Same with Deathwatch, Assassins, Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Sisters.
Fine... Confirmed. I'm guessing on kits.
Guesses:
Custodes are ok. Could use some characters, but how much is Forgeworld going to do?
Scions are ok.
Knights are ok.
Legion of the Damned are ok.
Sisters of Silence are ok. Could use some characters, but what about Forgeworld here too?
Arbites - Need a squad and clamshell commander
So, for the confirmed forces, we need:
2 plastic basic infantry kits (IQ henchmen and sisters)
1 Character (Cannoness rumors)
1 3-person set of psychers.
For the guesses, the only one that would really need a lot of support is Arbites. They share a vehicle with the sisters (Repressor) and Guard (bunch of stuff), so a plastic Repressor kit would serve both well.
What Forgeworld is up to is completely irrelavent, this is completely separate.
Anpu-adom wrote: So our best guess right now is:
Inquisition
AA Telepathica
Deathwatch
Assassins
Grey Knights
Sisters
What kits do they need to support each of those factions with at least a unit?
Inquisition - Has plenty of options in Finecast for characters. Needs plastic infantry.
AA Telepathics - Needs a small infantry box... maybe a three-person box like the sorcerors box that is on pre-order.
Deathwatch is ok.
Assasins are ok.
Grey Knights are ok.
Sisters - need a 5 person box of sisters with a clamshell cannoness.
Just going to say, it's not a "guess" regarding those.
Astra Telepathica is confirmed, it was in the blurbs we got early on. Same with Deathwatch, Assassins, Inquisition, Grey Knights, and Sisters.
Fine... Confirmed. I'm guessing on kits.
Guesses:
Custodes are ok. Could use some characters, but how much is Forgeworld going to do?
Scions are ok.
Knights are ok.
Legion of the Damned are ok.
Sisters of Silence are ok. Could use some characters, but what about Forgeworld here too?
Arbites - Need a squad and clamshell commander
So, for the confirmed forces, we need:
2 plastic basic infantry kits (IQ henchmen and sisters)
1 Character (Cannoness rumors)
1 3-person set of psychers.
For the guesses, the only one that would really need a lot of support is Arbites. They share a vehicle with the sisters (Repressor) and Guard (bunch of stuff), so a plastic Repressor kit would serve both well.
There aren't going to be any new kits. This book comes out pretty much by itself on the 17th. The next 2 saturdays are christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. Imperial Agents is a Stand Alone supplement book that got called a codex because so many other codexes got mashed into it.
Custodes and Sisters of Silence(and IMO, the Scions), if in, are likely in the same way it mentions Deathwatch and Grey Knights: Individual squads.
Everything about this book, in terms of the way it has been getting previewed/showcased, suggests a book that is intended to provide Allied formations/Detachments rather than playable armies.
I'm expecting pretty much that. A way to field small parts of those forces alongside your main army - smaller than your Allied Detachment, which basically only leaves "1 unit of X". Think Custodes/Sisters of Silence style.
I'm kinda surprised that GK, DW and SoB are going to be part of it in some way - I'd expected a purely "addon stuff" type of book. Inquisiton has basically 2 units, Assassins 4, Custodes and SoS 1 each. All of these can't run as an Allied Detachment.
Thing I don't really understand with the Imperial Agents codex is simply why it's needed if it's detachments only? Can't you already do that with Allies?
I guess one reason could be that there is no physical Inquisition codex so they figured they'd make one but realized there wouldn't be enough stuff in it so they threw in a bunch of stuff that doesn't have a book and because it includes the Inquisition they added some small chamber militant options.
How much have they retconned by the way?
Who is still the chamber militant of who?
GK used to be for Ordo Malleus
Deathwatch for Ordo Xenos
Sisters of Battle for Hereticus
So they completely separate entities now or just some of them?
MadCowCrazy wrote: Thing I don't really understand with the Imperial Agents codex is simply why it's needed if it's detachments only? Can't you already do that with Allies?
It puts it all in one place. Hardcopy, at that. Assassins, Inquisition, and Sisters of Battle are electronic only right now.
I'm not sure how it will all be organized, though. I have my suspicions that we're just getting Copy/Paste treatment for all of the above armies/units.
Also, it allows you to participate in tournaments that have 1 or 2 source restrictions.
So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
If they're ramping up the Black Crusade and directing it towards Tera, it makes sense for them to bring out a new Aba to lead the forces. He might be getting some updated rules to make him fit better in a post primarch world.
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
What's that? A Chaos special character being resculpted after 20 years? 'Boring and Pointless.'
Guess only Imperials get resculpts, amirite? Can't have Chaos actually getting some love after a decade of them being the taboo subject because Pete Haines once existed. Can't have that at all.
A new abaddon model would be sweet as all hell. Both kharn and ahriman got a size upgrade and they're in power armour. So there's a good chance abaddon could be humongous.
I'm more interested in traitor supplement leaks atm though XD
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
If they're ramping up the Black Crusade and directing it towards Tera, it makes sense for them to bring out a new Aba to lead the forces. He might be getting some updated rules to make him fit better in a post primarch world.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
If they're ramping up the Black Crusade and directing it towards Tera, it makes sense for them to bring out a new Aba to lead the forces. He might be getting some updated rules to make him fit better in a post primarch world.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
Oh, so you're comments are completely irrelevant. Gotcha.
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
If they're ramping up the Black Crusade and directing it towards Tera, it makes sense for them to bring out a new Aba to lead the forces. He might be getting some updated rules to make him fit better in a post primarch world.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
Oh, so you're comments are completely irrelevant. Gotcha.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.
unmercifulconker wrote: So thanks to Hellath over at B&C for posting this, seems Spanish GW got a tease of Jan's WD:
So people are saying its Abs which most likely means he's getting a shiny new plastic look, now as a matter of interest, where was that list of release rumours that someone brought back up from Natfka? Cant find it again but just wanted to check since they got some of the Tzeentch stuff right, was there a mention of a new Abbadon?
Also.....Ma sisters....
Screw that. More boring pointless Chaos crap. Oh goody...
If they're ramping up the Black Crusade and directing it towards Tera, it makes sense for them to bring out a new Aba to lead the forces. He might be getting some updated rules to make him fit better in a post primarch world.
I'm not sure about rules. The way they set up this black crusade in traitor's hate sounds an awful lot like he's off on an adventure to get some of that power horus and the emperor had. So currently he would be at his normal strength.
On the other hand, with this presumably the final crusade it would make some sense to already give him the rules/model to reflect that state, more so with there not being a primarch for Black Legion and that being the legion responsable for this new push to terra.
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.
Okaaaay. That's special.
Some people would say it's a complete dick move made by a man-child.
Not me. I wouldn't want to get my account suspended for the 15th time.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.
Okaaaay. That's special.
Imperial agents is Sisters of Battle. It is relevant to the conversation. And yeah, I'm a little bitter. Look, you got your new thousands sons, you got your new Abaddon and probably Deathguard coming, new chapter tactics, enjoy it. This is a cool time to be a Chaos player, but it does suck that all the many, many things we've been hearing about new Sisters amount to nothing. Give me my few minutes of bitterness, I think the fact that I still have and have to use models from 2nd Ed allots me that courtesy.
I'm not sure about rules. The way they set up this black crusade in traitor's hate sounds an awful lot like he's off on an adventure to get some of that power horus and the emperor had. So currently he would be at his normal strength.
On the other hand, with this presumably the final crusade it would make some sense to already give him the rules/model to reflect that state, more so with there not being a primarch for Black Legion and that being the legion responsable for this new push to terra.
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.
I thought it said that he had already received the blessings of each of the Chaos gods as part or and in between his other 12 Black Crusades, along with permanently destroying obstacles to his ultimate push towards Terra.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.
Okaaaay. That's special.
Imperial agents is Sisters of Battle. It is relevant to the conversation. And yeah, I'm a little bitter. Look, you got your new thousands sons, you got your new Abaddon and probably Deathguard coming, new chapter tactics, enjoy it. This is a cool time to be a Chaos player, but it does suck that all the many, many things we've been hearing about new Sisters amount to nothing. Give me my few minutes of bitterness, I think the fact that I still have and have to use models from 2nd Ed allots me that courtesy.
Actually, half the Sisters' range dates from 3rd ed. Half of it was released after the CSM 3.5 release with Codex Witchhunters. Also, the age of your models? Matters not a damn. Did you know the Sisters digital codex is actually NEWER than the CSM codex? Did you know that? Bet that's a surprise to you.
And it's not JUST Sisters of Battle. In fact, most of the rumours are pointing to it not necessarily being a full SoB codex but a collection of a squad or two - perhaps to allow the old Inquisition led 'oddities' similar to the set up of Daemonhunters/Witchhunters in 3rd ed. Of course, it could be a full compilation/reprint as GW are shying away from dataslate and digital only releases so that would make logical sense as well.
And hey, perhaps we're not hearing anything about New Sisters yet because the Imperial Agents book is some 2 weeks away. We didn't start seeing solid Thousand Sons rumours til a week or so before the pre-order so hey, perhaps that's an indicator.
But coming here and declaring your opinion as the only relevant one.
Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!
So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.
Okaaaay. That's special.
Imperial agents is Sisters of Battle. It is relevant to the conversation. And yeah, I'm a little bitter. Look, you got your new thousands sons, you got your new Abaddon and probably Deathguard coming, new chapter tactics, enjoy it. This is a cool time to be a Chaos player, but it does suck that all the many, many things we've been hearing about new Sisters amount to nothing. Give me my few minutes of bitterness, I think the fact that I still have and have to use models from 2nd Ed allots me that courtesy.
Actually, half the Sisters' range dates from 3rd ed. Half of it was released after the CSM 3.5 release with Codex Witchhunters. Also, the age of your models? Matters not a damn. Did you know the Sisters digital codex is actually NEWER than the CSM codex? Did you know that? Bet that's a surprise to you.
And it's not JUST Sisters of Battle. In fact, most of the rumours are pointing to it not necessarily being a full SoB codex but a collection of a squad or two - perhaps to allow the old Inquisition led 'oddities' similar to the set up of Daemonhunters/Witchhunters in 3rd ed. Of course, it could be a full compilation/reprint as GW are shying away from dataslate and digital only releases so that would make logical sense as well.
And hey, perhaps we're not hearing anything about New Sisters yet because the Imperial Agents book is some 2 weeks away. We didn't start seeing solid Thousand Sons rumours til a week or so before the pre-order so hey, perhaps that's an indicator.
But coming here and declaring your opinion as the only relevant one.
HOO. That's rich.
Knew that about about the codex, but if the models age is irrelevent, than why is the codex age relevant? I also didn't say that my opinion is the only relevant one, I said that it's the only relevant one to me, which is true of anyone, you clearly don't care that I think Sisters is the more interesting release so why should you care if I think Chaos stuff is boring?
You like Chaos and are excited about the new model, awesome, enjoy it. I wanted Sisters and am probably not getting any, sucks, but after a little bit of venting I'm over it. You go focus on how cool the new Abaddon sculpt is gonna be especially after Ahriman came out and I'll go back to lamenting in a corner like I was before. We never need to interact again if you don't want to.
(I am so curious to read more about the Astra Telephatica. I hope the book brings lots of fluff and pretty pics!)
