Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
catharsix wrote: I just had an idea for a nickname for the Haruspex that I hope will catch on:
The BARFOSPEX
I still prefer the Hentai-spex, but Barfospex is pretty good.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
I disagree. I am of the same (hive) mind that H.S.B.C. is, where nids should have very specialized units, as that is how the hive mind creates its spawn. Specific creatures for specific roles and specific problems. A shooting beast should be a shooting beast. Just being an MC is enough to be decent in CC, considering HoW, Smash and what not.
catharsix wrote: I just had an idea for a nickname for the Haruspex that I hope will catch on:
The BARFOSPEX
Please use this much easier to remember and much more descriptive alternative moniker on these boards, in your games, and in any other situation that you want to refer to this model that looks quite good except for its awful barf-maw (also, use "barf-maw" to refer to whatever the heck GW has named the mouth-weapon thing!)
The Tyrannofex could supply long range support with the Rupture Cannon and support from Biovores while the Exocrine could be mid-field shooting. If the Exocrine has the rule the it's BS4 if it doesn't move, the Tyrannofex could too (though I doubt it).
Yes, it will likely die in one of those situations. But what about the other big bugs beside/behind it? What if it has a cover save and fnp? If I can flood the board with monsters and lose one or two per turn for the first few turns... That's fine if I can afford to bring 12 to begin with.
I am not worried about close range monstrous creatures, because all Tyranid MC's are just that. Effective in close range situations.
What if your enemy doesn't know what they're doing? What if they don't have markerlights? What if, what if, what if.
You can't deny that the ability to take over 10 MCs is going to greatly mitigate the loss of each.
And there will be losses, that's the nature of playing as Tyranids.
Eldarain wrote:I'm eager to see the Haruspex without the bubblegum explosion in place. I think it would look more ominous with just the gaping maw.
I like the idea of the maw and just the grabber hook thing. A few tentacles are okay, but that's because I like Graboids.
Souleater wrote:Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Agreed.
streamdragon wrote:
catharsix wrote: I just had an idea for a nickname for the Haruspex that I hope will catch on:
The BARFOSPEX
I still prefer the Hentai-spex, but Barfospex is pretty good.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
I disagree. I am of the same (hive) mind that H.S.B.C. is, where nids should have very specialized units, as that is how the hive mind creates its spawn. Specific creatures for specific roles and specific problems. A shooting beast should be a shooting beast. Just being an MC is enough to be decent in CC, considering HoW, Smash and what not.
But they are making very specialized units. Tyranids just don't do it the same way Imperial Guard does with say, a Basilisk. How well does the Basilisk fight compared to an Exocrine or a Tyrannofex? How does it handle itself when a fighty unit gets close to it?
People originally thought Necron shooting was going to be bad when they saw Tesla weapons were 24" too.
The Hive Mind puts it's weapons on living creatures that first and foremost have a desire to feed. They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
Yes, it will likely die in one of those situations. But what about the other big bugs beside/behind it? What if it has a cover save and fnp? If I can flood the board with monsters and lose one or two per turn for the first few turns... That's fine if I can afford to bring 12 to begin with.
I am not worried about close range monstrous creatures, because all Tyranid MC's are just that. Effective in close range situations.
What if your enemy doesn't know what they're doing? What if they don't have markerlights? What if, what if, what if.
You can't deny that the ability to take over 10 MCs is going to greatly mitigate the loss of each.
And there will be losses, that's the nature of playing as Tyranids.
Exactly. We will have MC's available in pretty much every slot, for decent prices, and which can really do more than the MC's of other armies. When people write out those cute little math-hammer scenarios of, "Well if [insert army] focus fires [insert units] with perfect rolling at [insert Tyranids MC], they will kill it in one turn!"
Great. Now there are 8 other MC's which will likely reach combat and mulch [insert army].
If a person doesn't want to play something because it can die, they are playing the wrong game.
brassangel wrote: They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
That explains why the exocrine and most other Tyranid organisms are always smiling I guess.
brassangel wrote: They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
That explains why the exocrine and most other Tyranid organisms are always smiling I guess.
OMG!! OMG!! OMG!! That made my day!! (happy new year, btw!)
They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
This comes to mind in terms of raw power vs size of creature
In terms of physics (and I'm no expert) but if you could bioengineer a claw with a mass of say 100-200kg the power exerted should be similar to that of a melta gun as a pistol shrimps blast generates heat of 4000+ celcius
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Not on creatures specifically bred to shoot things, and not on so-called "living artillery". 24" range is a JOKE.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Not on creatures specifically bred to shoot things, and not on so-called "living artillery". 24" range is a JOKE.
Agreed. 24" is the range of an assault rifle in 40k. If the Exocrine's cannon really is only 24", calling that thing artillery is downright silly.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Not on creatures specifically bred to shoot things, and not on so-called "living artillery". 24" range is a JOKE.
Agreed. 24" is the range of an assault rifle in 40k. If the Exocrine's cannon really is only 24", calling that thing artillery is downright silly.
It is more akin to a Vindicator in comparison, which is a siege tank ,so the exocrine is in a sense a bit of a living siege creature ! You can outrange it but at some point it will get up to you ( with the rest of the army).
Kroothawk wrote: Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.
Guess there is no urgent need to update the pics of the first post, as we will have the official ones in just 3 days.
Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.
~$0.20 a model!
I'm giddy!
Still, I guess its better than the usual, and further evidence I feel that sufficient people have modified their buying habits with regard to GW that it has prompted action.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Not on creatures specifically bred to shoot things, and not on so-called "living artillery". 24" range is a JOKE.
Agreed. 24" is the range of an assault rifle in 40k. If the Exocrine's cannon really is only 24", calling that thing artillery is downright silly.
It is more akin to a Vindicator in comparison, which is a siege tank ,so the exocrine is in a sense a bit of a living siege creature ! You can outrange it but at some point it will get up to you ( with the rest of the army).
A Demolisher, you mean. But it's described as a living artillery piece, and has the range of a bolter.
Once again GW gets me on board with a new edition I don't completely hate, yet continues to constantly disappoint me with its idiotic Codex choices.
"living artillery peice" with a gun larger than a marine. With a range, the same as a marine's. There is lot one thing I can say, other than I'm not getting one.
I disagree. I am of the same (hive) mind that H.S.B.C. is, where nids should have very specialized units, as that is how the hive mind creates its spawn. Specific creatures for specific roles and specific problems. A shooting beast should be a shooting beast. Just being an MC is enough to be decent in CC, considering HoW, Smash and what not.
I believe I've already agreed with the gentleman in question over Nids having good specialists earlier in this thread. But perhaps I'm still in the old mind set of thinking that a S7, AP2, Large Blast is pretty good for an army that is generally seen as biased towards CC. I would have been surprised by 36" range and gob smacked at 48"+. I was expecting somthing around S6, AP3 and a large blast but probably 48" range. EDIT: Actually, it wouldn't surprise me to have that huge great gun but have been given S5, AP4 but I'm currently tired and cynical so should probably go to bed as it is past 3:00am here.
Naturally, what you can squeeze into a list is going to be restricted by the points available, but generally I go with Nids being able to select specialists for particular roles.
I think the writers wanted Nids to be stronger in shooting. At the moment we don't know how much they cared about assault.
Again, I want to rip stuff apart in CC with 'Stealers. I want brood of Hormies to be an actual threat to an equal number of Shoota Boyz, or an 'elite' assault type unit.
the shrouded lord wrote: "living artillery peice" with a gun larger than a marine. With a range, the same as a marine's. There is lot one thing I can say, other than I'm not getting one.
6 S7 AP2 shots at 24" is still very decent, especially on a T6 W5 3+ monstrous creature. Heck, the S7 AP2 large blast is also pretty darn good from the same model. For 170 points, I really don't see the issue? It's pretty durable when in cover, has lots of strong firepower, two firing modes, BS4 if it doesn't move, and it is the same cost as a bare-bones Riptide. It might not be as good as a Riptide, but it still looks like a good value monster.
I do agree though that fluff-wise an artillery beast really should have 36" range bare minimum, but I don't think it will stop the Exocrine from being very useful.
One thing we havnt seen is any real indication of what slots many of these new units will be taking. Tyranids are notorious for having overcrowded slots and this edition seems to be going the same way. I am very curious about the Crone, as the more i hear about it the more it seems like something GW would put in heavy support. In a FA slot it would be amazing, in a heavy slot its going to be a hard choice to take.
Do we know the range of the six shots mode of fire? I was assuming it would be longer than the 'blast mode'.
Are people forgetting that Necron Ark with the huge gun. ..small blast and problems firing on the move?
I am not trying to justify the weapon as it is rumoured. ..juzt saying it doesn't surprise me. GW just don't seem to know how to handle Tyranids. They want them to be capable at range...but not too capable...
Backlash wrote: One thing we havnt seen is any real indication of what slots many of these new units will be taking. Tyranids are notorious for having overcrowded slots and this edition seems to be going the same way. I am very curious about the Crone, as the more i hear about it the more it seems like something GW would put in heavy support. In a FA slot it would be amazing, in a heavy slot its going to be a hard choice to take.
We know from the White Dwarf the following;
*Crones are Fast Attack.
*Harpies are Fast Attack.
*Exocrines are Heavy Support.
*Old One Eye is HQ.
The rumour doing the rounds is that the Haruspex is in Elites, but we've seen no confirmation of that.
An FYI on that, if Haruspex's are indeed Elites, a Tyranid army without Allies or Double Force Org can fit 20 monstrous creatures into a legal army list (2 HQ Hive Tyrants, 3 Troop Tervigons, 3 Elite Haruspexes, 3 Fast Attack Crones, 9 Heavy Support Carnifexes).
EDIT: I think it is prudent to add that the "pulse" effect on Crone's missiles is apparently a translation for Haywire....which would make them pretty sweet actually.
Backlash wrote: One thing we havnt seen is any real indication of what slots many of these new units will be taking. Tyranids are notorious for having overcrowded slots and this edition seems to be going the same way. I am very curious about the Crone, as the more i hear about it the more it seems like something GW would put in heavy support. In a FA slot it would be amazing, in a heavy slot its going to be a hard choice to take.
We know from the White Dwarf the following;
*Crones are Fast Attack.
*Harpies are Fast Attack.
*Exocrines are Heavy Support.
*Old One Eye is HQ.
The rumour doing the rounds is that the Haruspex is in Elites, but we've seen no confirmation of that.
An FYI on that, if Haruspex's are indeed Elites, a Tyranid army without Allies or Double Force Org can fit 20 monstrous creatures into a legal army list (2 HQ Hive Tyrants, 3 Troop Tervigons, 3 Elite Haruspexes, 3 Fast Attack Crones, 9 Heavy Support Carnifexes).
EDIT: I think it is prudent to add that the "pulse" effect on Crone's missiles is apparently a translation for Haywire....which would make them pretty sweet actually.
Do we actually know that's what pulse means for sure? I think that was just a couple peoples' guesses about what it could mean.
Souleater wrote: Nid shooting should be secondary to their assault capabilities, IMO. That a S7, AP2, Large blast gun has a range of only 24" really shouldn't surprise anybody.
Not on creatures specifically bred to shoot things, and not on so-called "living artillery". 24" range is a JOKE.
Agreed. 24" is the range of an assault rifle in 40k. If the Exocrine's cannon really is only 24", calling that thing artillery is downright silly.
It is more akin to a Vindicator in comparison, which is a siege tank ,so the exocrine is in a sense a bit of a living siege creature ! You can outrange it but at some point it will get up to you ( with the rest of the army).
A Demolisher, you mean. But it's described as a living artillery piece, and has the range of a bolter.
Once again GW gets me on board with a new edition I don't completely hate, yet continues to constantly disappoint me with its idiotic Codex choices.
So the Exocrine is basically a Nid Demolisher/Vindicator with a 6 shot plasma mode, and everyone is crying that it's not more like a Basilisk? How many other Nid creatures have AP2 large blast ranged weapons to compare it to?
I'm personally still pumped up for this codex - nothing from this batrep has dampened my spirits. As to the 24" range on the exocrine -- that was listed by terrorfex on warpshadow and could be wrong. But, even if it's right, advancing to midfield will allow it to slag necessary enemy backfield units, so I'm really ok with it.
Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....
Also it's 15 minutes early but happy new year, east coast USA!
brassangel wrote: They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
That explains why the exocrine and most other Tyranid organisms are always smiling I guess.
They also fire their weapons with a series of muscle spasms, not a giant, hydraulic-driven piece of machinery. Show me a guy..."firing his ammo" as far as a similarly sized .50 caliber can fire a bullet and I'll concede the argument.
This comes to mind in terms of raw power vs size of creature
In terms of physics (and I'm no expert) but if you could bioengineer a claw with a mass of say 100-200kg the power exerted should be similar to that of a melta gun as a pistol shrimps blast generates heat of 4000+ celcius
Sweet...which explains why Tyranid MC's can rip things open with their claws, and have crazy cool guns when up close. Just like the Pistol Shrimp.
The argument was about range. The little critter from your video there has a range of a few feet. It's harmless after that. Just like Tyranids. So you further proved my point.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Stronger at shooting? By giving us a new 24" ranged gun? Be still my beating heart...
Yeah, how dare Tyranids get something with a more versatile gun than a Demolisher, on a body that's harder to kill and has the ability to fight too.
You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.
the shrouded lord wrote: "living artillery peice" with a gun larger than a marine. With a range, the same as a marine's. There is lot one thing I can say, other than I'm not getting one.
6 S7 AP2 shots at 24" is still very decent, especially on a T6 W5 3+ monstrous creature. Heck, the S7 AP2 large blast is also pretty darn good from the same model. For 170 points, I really don't see the issue? It's pretty durable when in cover, has lots of strong firepower, two firing modes, BS4 if it doesn't move, and it is the same cost as a bare-bones Riptide. It might not be as good as a Riptide, but it still looks like a good value monster.
I do agree though that fluff-wise an artillery beast really should have 36" range bare minimum, but I don't think it will stop the Exocrine from being very useful.
Not to be a spoiler, but from the battle report we do not yet know that thing is six shots with that stat - we only know the large blast - this is on page 64 of the WD.
The actual text is " ...able to deliver a s7 ap2 Large Blast or six separate shots"
Wishful thinking might suggest the six shots S7AP2, but the text does not confirm it.
If there is a separate confirmation - please quote it directly, which would be awesome.
Otherwise, we are potentially spreading mis-information - which is then repeated again and again.
Likewise, I saw nothing in the battle report that says the exocrine is 24" range - so whats the verified source for that?
I am not saying it might not be in there somewhere, but can we have a page number? Otherwise a lot of debate is happening off of a non-confirmed source.
tetrisphreak wrote: Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....
Neither of those things are touted as "living artillery" though, are they?
brassangel wrote: You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.
Doesn't need to function like a Basilisk. A 36" range would've been perfect.
tetrisphreak wrote: Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....
Neither of those things are touted as "living artillery" though, are they?
brassangel wrote: You know there are rifles out there that can out-range a cannon, right? It's still artillery, just on something that doesn't function like a Basilisk.
Doesn't need to function like a Basilisk. A 36" range would've been perfect.
tetrisphreak wrote: I'm personally still pumped up for this codex - nothing from this batrep has dampened my spirits. As to the 24" range on the exocrine -- that was listed by terrorfex on warpshadow and could be wrong. But, even if it's right, advancing to midfield will allow it to slag necessary enemy backfield units, so I'm really ok with it.
Jaws only has a 24" range, as do grav cannons - those never work do they? Oh wait....
Also it's 15 minutes early but happy new year, east coast USA!
This is the same kind of whineing that was present about a lot of units in the Necron Codex, including the Anniliation Barge. I mean, it only has 24 range! We saw how that turned out.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I know what a Demolisher cannon is. What's your point?
What I mean is I don't think that that a 24 inch range discounts something being call "artillery" (case in point demolisher cannons) so I don't think the use of term "living artillery" for a large blast with a 24 inch range in all together unfitting.
BlaxicanX wrote: It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.
Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive!
BlaxicanX wrote: It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.
Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.
"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.
Can we create another thread "I heard from an unverified source that the weapon might be shorter than we had been lead to believe and I want to debate its usefulness with others when we really don't know yet" topic?
Back to rumors....
In page 64 of the wd, in the side bar is the comment
"Tyranid instinctive behavior is now more varied - and more potentially debilitating than ever - ... "
I think it had been confirmed that the gargoyles now have "hunt", but do we have any other info on just how ...."debilitating" some of these may be?
On page 26 it says "new instinctive behavior tables with multiple results for Lurk, Hunt and Feed"
BlaxicanX wrote: It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.
Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.
"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.
Try again, Bragg.
You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.
The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.
Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.
So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.
BlaxicanX wrote: It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.
Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.
"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.
Try again, Bragg.
You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.
The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.
Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.
So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.
It's not silly at all to post our reactions to the information we're given when its given to us. This is a discussion forum after all. That might bother you, but, unless I'm breaking a rule I don't really care.
BlaxicanX wrote: It's not going to do a very good job at killing stuff because it'll only last a turn in most cases. So, prepare to be mad I guess.
Yeah, just like how everyone was mad at how much the Wave Serpent costed, it was still useless after the update! Don't forget how quickly the Wraithknight would die, with only it's 3+ save! Such a useless MC! I needed a 2+ to survive.
"Based off of what we know" is a modifier that is assumed in a thread about rumors, and thus I don't have to state it.
Try again, Bragg.
You know what they say about assuming things. Just like people assumed with the Wraithknight, and the Waveserpent. It's the same thing you're doing right now.
The point is, it is completely silly to talk about how "it's going to only last a turn!" When you've gotten merely a (Possible!) glimpse of the entire codex. This is theorycrafting at it's worst, and has no basis in the reality of the game. It has also been shown to be faulty rumor thread, after rumor thread, once the actual codex hits the tabletop and results start coming in.
Then, you go on to post flamebait things like "Prepare to be mad" Quite constructive.
So, perhaps you should dial down your silly chicken-little theorycrafting, and maybe people can actually take you seriously.
It's not silly at all to post our reactions to the information we're given when its given to us. This is a discussion forum after all. That might bother you, but, unless I'm breaking a rule I don't really care.
You're welcome to post your reactions, but don't expect such silly hyperbole to go without being criticized, and challenged. It' also not much of discussion, when all you are doing is posting your knee-jerk exaggerations. It's simply noise.
If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to a discussion.
BlaxicanX wrote: Feel free to challenge my opinions. I welcome it.
If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to discussion.
You might want to try a better avenue of discussion then if your thoughts on the matter aren't that worthwhile for others to discuss.
The question's going to be how viable Exocrines are versus Carnifexes for the Heavy Support slots. If the rumour of a 24" range is true, I don't see myself using one of those to fill a HS slot over a more versatile 'Fex brood. Maybe one slot. Sometimes. Perhaps.
That said, if the Haruspex does indeed fall into the Elite slot then it opens up the debate of whether they're worth taking over Hive Guard or Zoanthropes. Also not forgetting that the new dataslate may indeed make Lictors viable again, who also occupy elite slots.
It'd be nice to finally have a decision to make when building a competitive list again.
As for semi-competitive lists, if Broodlords (and the aforementioned dataslate) make Genestealers semi-viable again then i'll never field another small gribbly in friendly play. I'm all about the big and scary, so a couple of 'Stealer broods led by Broodlords, plus a plethora of MC's will make the hobby crazy fun for me. Exciting times.
I agree with that. I think I'd be more inclined to pick the carnifex brood as well. That price drop is just too sexy.
Still worried about genestealers. I just don't see them being viable without a first-turn assault mechanic, which they almost certainly won't be getting imo.
BlaxicanX wrote: Feel free to challenge my opinions. I welcome it.
If all you're going to do is complain about the existence of the opinions rather than explain why you think they're incorrect, though, then let me know so I can just ignore you, since you're not offering anything conducive to discussion.
I have explained it, multiple times. You have just ignored it, and complained about my opinion. Which is not conducive to discussion either.
Trying to evaluate a single unit in a vacuum, without the rest of the picture is mostly a futile effort. It has shown to be erroneous over and over again. I've given you several examples, with things like the Riptide, The Wraith Knight and the Wave Serpent. These were all panned before they started to hit the tabletop, and full evaluation was fairly given. While posting you think it's bad, is fine, but posting really silly things like "It's going to die before it does anything" has no bearing on the reality of the game.
I've also demonstrated that 24' range is not an issue. 24 was likewise, panned when the Necrons were first released. It was quickly shown that it is not an issue.
All of this happens when you take into account the actual big picture, not just one unit in a vacuum vs an entire army.
6th Edition codexes have shown us several times over, that you really need to look at the entire army, to see how well it will function. This cycle of people whining how everything is under-powered and bad, until the codex release has been repeated over and over.
Multiple MCs, Psychic Powers, Biomorphs, all of these things can dramatically shift and alter how the army performs. The Exocrine on it's own, is not on the same level as the riptide, albeit it is a bit cheaper. It however, is still a very good shooting monstrous creature. There really isn't anything that favorably compares to how much fire power that thing can put out, at it's points level, besides the Riptide.
BlaxicanX wrote: I agree with that. I think I'd be more inclined to pick the carnifex brood as well. That price drop is just too sexy.
Still worried about genestealers. I just don't see them being viable without a first-turn assault mechanic, which they almost certainly won't be getting imo.
I remain hopeful that the dataslate for Lictor/Stealer shenanigans will make them at least semi-viable, although I think you're absolutely right, I don't see them getting a first turn assault mechanic. It'd just be nice to see my Lictors and Stealers back on the table without knowing they'll get shot to hell by small arms fire before even making it into assault. One can dream!
I wish it didn't take "DLC" to make the units in my game work. If the unit doesn't work in the basic codex, they're doing something wrong. grrr grumble grumble
Are those 4chan links a few pages back not working for anyone else? Was at work when I saw them, so I couldn't read them when they were working.
Well, according to the same types of knee-jerk whiners in old news and rumour threads, Riptides were garbage, Tesla Destructors on Scythes and ABarges arent' that good, the whole Eldar codex is a steaming pile of crap, etc. Someone has to be that guy who immortalises himself by criticising the units which future tournament players will spam into their lists as much as possible.
According to the rumours 170 points buys a slower Riptide without an invulnerable save. It'll come at a 15 point discount, but is actually more deadly in the multiple shots mode. You can get a cover save for it all game so the invulnerable save isn't really an issue against standard armies. For an army that isn't solely specialised on shooting that sounds extremely good. As far as the range goes I think it's a good way to balance it and make it fit the generic Nid theme a bit better -- It will advance with the rest of the guys instead of sit at the deployment zone all game.
I do agree though that the model looks like a giant Biovore, and I have a hard time imagining that gun firing 6 shots like a machinegun, or in close ranges at all. To me the rules aren't a problem but the model doesn't seem to fit the rules all that well. They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
Kroothawk wrote: Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.
Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.
It is just a temporary token of love to retailers, so they can't sell the Tyranid standard boxes GW forces them to stock, at the one time they could sell them.
Kroothawk wrote: Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.
Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.
It is just a temporary token of love to retailers, so they can't sell the Tyranid standard boxes GW forces them to stock, at the one time they could sell them.
Yes indeed, a price drop for termagants and Carnifexes, plus a significant effective price drop for warriors (and tyrant guard) if you use boneswords and lashwhips does have to be a bad thing. Because it's GW.
We're in a (minor) tourney whch continuts every saturday thru the spring from the 11th, so we will have one week to play the old codex (GW rules), then the new from then in. So I'm hoping we'll get some good assessments to temper our own (as opposed to gratuitous panicking about rumours), as that will be 7 days to suss out, buy, build and paint the new models.
You can get a cover save for it all game so the invulnerable save isn't really an issue against standard armies.
Not that I consider myself part of the negative nelly contingent, but Is Tau not a standard army? Or space marines with access to perfect timing? I know I know, those are specific instances. Most of the time, it should be getting it's 4+ ruins save.
I do hope it's at least 30 inches though. If it's shooting is that good STR and AP wise, that's a huge bulls eye painted over it. No need to make it's survivability even worse by forcing you to shunt it to the front line in order to get any shots off.
It would make a pretty kickarse counter charge sort of unit. Anything attempting to charge the Nid back lines would be optimal targets for the beasty. Maybe that's more of what it's intended for.
But still would prefer 30 inches.
Therion wrote: I do agree though that the model looks like a giant Biovore, and I have a hard time imagining that gun firing 6 shots like a machinegun, or in close ranges at all. To me the rules aren't a problem but the model doesn't seem to fit the rules all that well. They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
There are six smaller "openings" built into the sides of the Bio-plasma cannon on the Exocrine (three on either side). The central "opening" fires the stream as a single burst, where as the six apertures on the sides of the gun would fire the six individual shots.
Therion wrote: I do agree though that the model looks like a giant Biovore, and I have a hard time imagining that gun firing 6 shots like a machinegun, or in close ranges at all. To me the rules aren't a problem but the model doesn't seem to fit the rules all that well. They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
There are six smaller "openings" built into the sides of the Bio-plasma cannon on the Exocrine (three on either side). The central "opening" fires the stream as a single burst, where as the six apertures on the sides of the gun would fire the six individual shots.
I think the list of rumors that contained this, was pretty thoroughly debunked. Not to say it won't happen, just that a lot (nearly all) of those rumors seemed to be false.
I would just like to see something simple.
3 HQ 4 Elite
8 Troops
4 FA 4 HS
The problem with that is it lacks any external balance. Giving people a 4th of any of those slots has never been a good idea and it doesn't scale well.
Think back to 3rd Ed. The biggest problem with things like the Iron Warrior sub-list, or the Guard Doctrine System/Marine Trait System was that they were built on the idea of giving something up in order to get +1 or something. The issue was that if you never intended to take whatever it was you were giving up you weren't actually giving anything up.
Apply the same sort of idea to that bigger FOC you just posted. Say you have no other restrictions on it - well you've just given the 'Nids a 4th of the special slots and there's no 'tax' on it like everyone else has with Allies. Ok then, so say you that in an attempt to balance it you make 4 Troops compulsory rather than 2 Troops. Great, now the list is hamstrung at lower points levels as it has to take 4 troops slots before it can take anything else.
Rules should scale. Allies mightn't be balanced due to the combinations of units that people can take, but at least the composition of allies makes sense. Tyranids getting larger as the player takes more "leader beasts" not only fits thematically, but it allows the list to function at any points level and eliminates the "Tyranids don't get allies" problem.
Assuming it boosts the FoC by 1 slot across the board, you could essentially field 7 FMC's (3 Flyrants and 4 Crones) alongside 12 Carnifexes, using just 2 Troop choices. Yowzer.
Which raises the question about how the new rumoured FoC works if the 'Nid's standard FoC is larger due to no allies. At 2k+ do the 'Nids get to double theirs up to 6 HQ, 8 Elite, 8 Heavy etc...?
I feel that PP did a better job of restricting units by hard capping each non-basic unit. As battles scale up you reach a limit on certain uncommon or rare models but can as as many 'troopers' as your pocket and the points limit will allow.
At the moment I am more curious about the Vanguard dataslate than the actual codex.
Obviously what's viable and what's OP in the nid dex remains to be seen. Just 9 more days, but I'd imagine someone will get an early copy any day now.
So if old one eye comes with IWND and FNP stock, tagging him with catalyst would really make him a pain to destroy. I think he would need 5 wounds instead of 4 to be viable but at 220 points maybe not... I'll have to try him out when the codex releases.
Kroothawk wrote: Just for the record, the mail order Hormagaunt and Termagant broods are 20 models each, as stated in the first post for some weeks.
Which makes a price drop if that price list is correct.
It is just a temporary token of love to retailers, so they can't sell the Tyranid standard boxes GW forces them to stock, at the one time they could sell them.
Do you have retailers that don't do 20% pretty regularly? Cause I don't. And at 20% off the standard boxes are just under 30 cents cheaper per model. Heck, 10% is still cheaper than the online deal per model.
But yeah, don't let me rain on your parade. GW is going to kill the little man with these!
H.B.M.C. wrote: It'd be more balanced than just increasing their FOC without any scaled restrictions.
I think it's pretty fairly balanced by the fact that Tyranids cannot take allies at all.
I understand your point, but I honestly don't see giving the Nids an extra FOC as anywhere near the power level that BB allies can do.
Edit: To clarify, I mean expanding their FOC.
So... everyone else is broken, so why bother even trying for balance?
Well, if everyone else is broken, then putting something on the same level would be balance...
To clarify, I don't think it would be OP. The fact that every other army has a BB other than Tyranids(And Necrons), Merits something be done, I don't think there is anything wrong with one extra slot for each section.
Do you in all honestly, believe that those extra slots on the FOC, would seriously unbalance Tyranids? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It'd be more balanced than just increasing their FOC without any scaled restrictions.
I think it's pretty fairly balanced by the fact that Tyranids cannot take allies at all.
I understand your point, but I honestly don't see giving the Nids an extra FOC as anywhere near the power level that BB allies can do.
Edit: To clarify, I mean expanding their FOC.
So... everyone else is broken, so why bother even trying for balance?
Well, if everyone else is broken, then putting something on the same level would be balance...
To clarify, I don't think it would be OP. The fact that every other army has a BB other than Tyranids, Merits something be done, I don't think there is anything wrong with one extra slot for each section.
Do you in all honestly, believe that those extra slots on the FOC, would seriously unbalance Tyranids? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Remember the Iron Warriors list written by Pete Haines?
tetrisphreak wrote: That's how warmahordes handles it, and I regularly hear how it's a much better system for competitive play.
Yeah, let's not turn this into a GW vs PP pissing contest. Please? Can we do that?
I was just pointing out the similarity if that system continues. If every army gets stupid broken stuff, tournament players can bounce off of each other's 2+ reroll save bullcrap. Casual players like me and my friends will just do balanced lists and have fun with it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It'd be more balanced than just increasing their FOC without any scaled restrictions.
I think it's pretty fairly balanced by the fact that Tyranids cannot take allies at all.
I understand your point, but I honestly don't see giving the Nids an extra FOC as anywhere near the power level that BB allies can do.
Edit: To clarify, I mean expanding their FOC.
So... everyone else is broken, so why bother even trying for balance?
Well, if everyone else is broken, then putting something on the same level would be balance...
To clarify, I don't think it would be OP. The fact that every other army has a BB other than Tyranids, Merits something be done, I don't think there is anything wrong with one extra slot for each section.
Do you in all honestly, believe that those extra slots on the FOC, would seriously unbalance Tyranids? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Remember the Iron Warriors list written by Pete Haines?
I did not play before 4th Edition
I assume that is from 3rd. I think it's a lot more fair that we keep in mind the current state of 40k, which is sixth edition.
Remember the Iron Warriors list written by Pete Haines?
I did not play before 4th Edition
I assume that is from 3rd. I think it's a lot more fair that we keep in mind the current state of 40k, which is sixth edition.
Right, but the point was more that it did exactly what HBMC is kind of protesting against.
The Iron Warriors could sacrifice two of their Fast Attack slots for another Heavy Support slot, bringing them up to 4 FA slots. If you want to give some kind of "bonus" then there needs to be some kind of sacrifice. For some books it's the requirement to utilize two different books and Allies(which might not always be allowed), using special characters, etc.
Remember the Iron Warriors list written by Pete Haines?
I did not play before 4th Edition
I assume that is from 3rd. I think it's a lot more fair that we keep in mind the current state of 40k, which is sixth edition.
Right, but the point was more that it did exactly what HBMC is kind of protesting against.
The Iron Warriors could sacrifice two of their Fast Attack slots for another Heavy Support slot, bringing them up to 4 FA slots. If you want to give some kind of "bonus" then there needs to be some kind of sacrifice. For some books it's the requirement to utilize two different books and Allies(which might not always be allowed), using special characters, etc.
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Remember the Iron Warriors list written by Pete Haines?
I did not play before 4th Edition
I assume that is from 3rd. I think it's a lot more fair that we keep in mind the current state of 40k, which is sixth edition.
Right, but the point was more that it did exactly what HBMC is kind of protesting against.
The Iron Warriors could sacrifice two of their Fast Attack slots for another Heavy Support slot, bringing them up to 4 FA slots. If you want to give some kind of "bonus" then there needs to be some kind of sacrifice. For some books it's the requirement to utilize two different books and Allies(which might not always be allowed), using special characters, etc.
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
That makes sense to me I have to say. They do have a major drawback without Allies.
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.
Everyone in here complaining before we know what's being deliberately hidden from us. Codex will soon be here and we can commence complaining about how we can't run Taudar after that.
Personally I think we're gonna have DS or an equivalent to still allow us to be a turn 2 threat overload army while having enough backfield shooting to not auto lose against hell turkeys and cron air.
The Swarmy fluffy army will still be great at anything around 750 points and down.
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.
Yes, this is what I meant.
Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.
Yes, this is what I meant.
Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.
Right, but the internet told people they were only worthwhile to get the AA guns. Don't go showing us that a little trial-and-error can prove otherwise. Gamers in forums don't stand for logic like that!
Sasori wrote: Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.
Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.
They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.
Yes, this is what I meant.
Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.
I don't have stronghold assault, and it's not allowed in any tournament I go to, so I'm not aware some of these things.
It's good information to know.
That being said, It still doesn't solve the primary quandary that I have posted, which is not having access to allies, and if it is enough of a "Sacrifice" to allow an extra slot across the FOC for Tyranids by default.
Right, but the internet told people they were only worthwhile to get the AA guns. Don't go showing us that a little trial-and-error can prove otherwise. Gamers in forums don't stand for logic like that!
Or, perhaps as I have Acknowledged, did not have stronghold assault, and it's not allowed at any tournaments I frequent. There is no need to be a jerk like this for no reason, and it still fails to address the primary concern I have outlined.
That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.
So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?
I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.
I'm looking at getting...
- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine
I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.
I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.
Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?
I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.
I'm looking at getting...
- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine
I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.
I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.
Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?
It is currently impossible to give an estimate on what would be competitive, and good choices since the codex is not yet released, there hasn't been adequate testing involved.
That being said, I think the Swarm Bundle is great, a really good way to fill out your army.
The Exocrine looks to be competitive right now, and I would say the box itself is a reasonably safe buy. The chances of both options (The other being the Haruspex) being bad is pretty slim, but still possible.
The Plastic Hive Tyrant kit, is a really good kit as well. Tyrants will almost always be needed in a Tyranid army, and you get lots of great bits to go with it.
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?
I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.
I'm looking at getting...
- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine
I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.
L
I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.
Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?
The Tervigon would be your only HQ choice there, so I would recommend picking up the Hive Tyrant kit as well. Other than that, it should be a reasonable solid core. Pending release.
tetrisphreak wrote: That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.
Yes, exactly!
Hopefully we'll know in a few days. This wait is killing me.
tetrisphreak wrote: That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.
Yes, exactly!
Hopefully we'll know in a few days. This wait is killing me.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.
I'm sure it's more along the lines of 'buy 2 boxes and build a 3 Fex brood along with Old One Eye.'
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.
I'd imagine it stayed the same, judging from the battle report. And the fact that it will make you buy two boxes to have a full brood, and then you might as well buy a second box to make up that spare Carnifex into a full brood. That's how it works right right....?
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.
I doubt it. If the only way to get a carnifex is via the two pack, then keeping the broods 1-3 ensures players will over-buy models and need to get additional kits.
I'm not saying it can't stay at 1-3, but between third party sellers (which GW wants players to avoid I would think), and the big swarm box (which I'm sure GW wants us to buy) there are ways to get 3 Fexes instead of 2 or 4.
I was mostly thinking that the other medium to large boxes come in multiples that cap out at unit size. Warriors and raveners are boxes of 3 for 3-9 unit size, for instance. Gargoyles are 10 for 10-30.
Granted, the new gaunts are 20 for 10-30, so who knows.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.
I doubt it. If the only way to get a carnifex is via the two pack, then keeping the broods 1-3 ensures players will over-buy models and need to get additional kits.
I thought GW was getting away from people over buying models, because it pissed us off so much, we just never ended up buying them.
How do people feel about the possibility of Hormies getting another attack with Scything Talons, combined with 3" extra move?
I know being able to run and attack would really be the deal breaker but as we are not sure about that yet, are Hormies still useless with an extra attack? Putting out 4 attacks each on the charge is a lot of dice with a 30 man squad for 150 pts...
SHUPPET wrote: How do people feel about the possibility of Hormies getting another attack with Scything Talons, combined with 3" extra move?
I know being able to run and attack would really be the deal breaker but as we are not sure about that yet, are Hormies still useless with an extra attack? Putting out 4 attacks each on the charge is a lot of dice with a 30 man squad for 150 pts...
Surprisingly enough, it still only amounts to 6.6 unsaved wounds on MEQs And that's if you can get all of them into close combat (Unlikely)
So.. yeah. This can be improved if you purchase Toxin Sacs/Adrenal glands, but I don't think it's worth it.
Regarding the comments about fortifications, has there been any rumor from a somewhat verified source that nids may somehow not be able to use fortifications?
After reading almost all of the content in the WD (scans, and the HD copy on youtube) I saw nothing in there to indicate any loss of fortification access.
I want to differentiate this just from the thought that "fortifications are not useful" to them, which is honestly, subjective.
I build a lot of terrain, and think that a nid skyshield with some big bugs sitting on it is just darn cool. Most of my nid/alien themed stuff has been smaller thus far, but if indeed the nids either get anything new or at least don't lose access to fortifications, then I will prolly be building some new stuff.
Hopefully you can deep strike or similar as with mycetic spores at the moment as if sitw has changed to -3 leadership I can have great fun with 3x3 zoans with psychic shriek!
Shingen wrote: Hopefully you can deep strike or similar as with mycetic spores at the moment as if sitw has changed to -3 leadership I can have great fun with 3x3 zoans with psychic shriek!
I'd imagine it's only -3 to psychic tests. Although if it's -3 to all Ld value, that would be massive!
davethepak wrote: Regarding the comments about fortifications, has there been any rumor from a somewhat verified source that nids may somehow not be able to use fortifications?
The FAQ for the current codex says Tyranids can't manually fire emplaced weapons. We don't know if that will change with the new one.
davethepak wrote: Regarding the comments about fortifications, has there been any rumor from a somewhat verified source that nids may somehow not be able to use fortifications?
The FAQ for the current codex says Tyranids can't manually fire emplaced weapons. We don't know if that will change with the new one.
Heh I have the mental image right now. what a good one. Tyranids firing Lascannons. It's beautiful
Therion wrote: They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
The Tyrannofex is a close range assault beast. Using the Rupture Cannon as the basis of your opinion of the Tyrannofex gives a misleading impression on it. Look at the rest of the beast. T6, W6, and the only 2+ save in the army outside of a Hive Tyrant (in 5th). Comes standard with either an assault 5 or large blast S5 weapon and a thorax swarm. Its other 2 primary weapons are a rather nasty template or a 12" range, assault 20 anti light infantry gun. The Tyrannofex was made for close range warfare. The reason people found the Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex overpriced was because they were wasting its other 2 weapons, which are included in the base price, since it never got in range to use them, and wasted its rather tough stats by never taking enough hits to make them worth it. Putting a Rupture Cannon on it is defeating the purpose of the rest of the unit. Not to mention at BS 3 the Rupture Cannon is pretty terrible.
The problems come from the fact that it isn't fast enough to catch much with its rather good short ranged firepower, and doesn't have the assault stats to resist the inevitable return assault. It'll get powerfisted to death after nuking one unit - if it reaches one.
The Rupture Cannon feels almost like the creation of the Vindicator. The Space Marines needed a linebreaker tank and only had Rhino chassis. Not the toughest chassis ever, but managed to toughen it up and strap a Demolisher cannon to it, which got the job done. Similarly, the Rupture Cannon almost feels the same way - the Hive Mind needed the firepower of a Heirpohant but didn't have the biomass to dedicate to one, so they strapped a similarly powerful gun to the biggest creature they had the resources to make, and the 'template' stayed around.
Regarding the Exocrine, I'll give it a few games to see if I like the shorter range but decently powerful shot for its points cost. I have a feeling it won't bother me, but I'm not going to definitely state how I feel about the unit until I get some table time with it.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I thought that was single carnifex pricing. I'm happy to be wrong if this is the case. I guess after seeing some of the other new mc pricing it wouldn't be stretch to see them charging 80ish per a fex, add in tax and you are getting up there pretty quick price wise.
Rotary wrote: I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.
Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.
I thought that was single carnifex pricing. I'm happy to be wrong if this is the case. I guess after seeing some of the other new mc pricing it wouldn't be stretch to see them charging 80ish per a fex, add in tax and you are getting up there pretty quick price wise.
Then be happy, because you are wrong. The new pricing is for a repack of the Carnifex, which includes 2 of them.
Regarding the earlier discussion about FOC vs. allies, I don't think people understand how much a massive, near-codex shattering nerf is it to be an army that can not take allies in this meta.
Allowing a free single extra slot in each section of the FOC only barely evens the gap there.
I personally don't see why you would take allies with Tyranids.
The codex always seems to be built around supporting other Tyranids. Synapse, Tyrant buffs, Tervigon buffs, etc. Taking away 500pts of that to shoehorn a Riptide into your list takes away 500pts of Tyranids that will not be getting buffs from other units or units that do the buffing, which makes the Tyranid portion of the army weaker, while not giving you something that by comparison makes up for how much weaker you just made the main part of your army.
Make the Tyranid codex not need allies and you won't miss allies.
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Hunchkrot wrote: I feel like this Allies v. Expanded FOC argument really isn't necessary. I mean, once we get a supplement we'll just ally with it.
This too. The rumours of Leviathan being about more monstrous creatures and Kraken being about more swarms means Tyranids will have 2 good directions to ally with themselves to essentially open more FoC slots anyway. These will also still be Tyranids which will buff or receive buffs from other Tyranids.
Therion wrote: They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
The Tyrannofex is a close range assault beast. Using the Rupture Cannon as the basis of your opinion of the Tyrannofex gives a misleading impression on it. Look at the rest of the beast. T6, W6, and the only 2+ save in the army outside of a Hive Tyrant (in 5th). Comes standard with either an assault 5 or large blast S5 weapon and a thorax swarm. Its other 2 primary weapons are a rather nasty template or a 12" range, assault 20 anti light infantry gun. The Tyrannofex was made for close range warfare. The reason people found the Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex overpriced was because they were wasting its other 2 weapons, which are included in the base price, since it never got in range to use them, and wasted its rather tough stats by never taking enough hits to make them worth it. Putting a Rupture Cannon on it is defeating the purpose of the rest of the unit. Not to mention at BS 3 the Rupture Cannon is pretty terrible.
The problems come from the fact that it isn't fast enough to catch much with its rather good short ranged firepower, and doesn't have the assault stats to resist the inevitable return assault. It'll get powerfisted to death after nuking one unit - if it reaches one.
The Rupture Cannon feels almost like the creation of the Vindicator. The Space Marines needed a linebreaker tank and only had Rhino chassis. Not the toughest chassis ever, but managed to toughen it up and strap a Demolisher cannon to it, which got the job done. Similarly, the Rupture Cannon almost feels the same way - the Hive Mind needed the firepower of a Heirpohant but didn't have the biomass to dedicate to one, so they strapped a similarly powerful gun to the biggest creature they had the resources to make, and the 'template' stayed around.
Regarding the Exocrine, I'll give it a few games to see if I like the shorter range but decently powerful shot for its points cost. I have a feeling it won't bother me, but I'm not going to definitely state how I feel about the unit until I get some table time with it.
I have to say Loki this is one of the best reviews of the TFex I have ever seen. I had planned on picking one up with the new codex, to add to my collection. And this has my completely rethinking how it will fit in with my army.
-Loki- wrote:I personally don't see why you would take allies with Tyranids.
The codex always seems to be built around supporting other Tyranids. Synapse, Tyrant buffs, Tervigon buffs, etc. Taking away 500pts of that to shoehorn a Riptide into your list takes away 500pts of Tyranids that will not be getting buffs from other units or units that do the buffing, which makes the Tyranid portion of the army weaker, while not giving you something that by comparison makes up for how much weaker you just made the main part of your army.
Make the Tyranid codex not need allies and you won't miss allies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hunchkrot wrote: I feel like this Allies v. Expanded FOC argument really isn't necessary. I mean, once we get a supplement we'll just ally with it.
This too. The rumours of Leviathan being about more monstrous creatures and Kraken being about more swarms means Tyranids will have 2 good directions to ally with themselves to essentially open more FoC slots anyway. These will also still be Tyranids which will buff or receive buffs from other Tyranids.
Honestly, you could make Tyranids be able to take any codex as Battle Brothers allies and I still wouldn't!
24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
On page 30 of the Jan White Dwarf you can see (what looks like) 3 cards with tyranid psychic powers. Could anyone let us which ones they are and what they do?
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
No, Hive Guard in all the games I have used them die on turn 2, and have accounted for nothing, but I do play against Mechanized Orks and Marines. 11 Tank Busters in Battlewagon are going to make the Hive Guard have a really bad day.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
No, Hive Guard in all the games I have used them die on turn 2, and have accounted for nothing, but I do play against Mechanized Orks and Marines. 11 Tank Busters in Battlewagon are going to make the Hive Guard have a really bad day.
You play against mechanised Orks and Space Marines, use Hive Guard, and they die on turn 2 and account for no kills.
Do you... do you use terrain? Like even a little bit? Mechanised Space Marines and Orks are the armies Hive Guard are designed to kill. They sit behind a peice of LOS blocking over lobbing out mutliple S8 shots that cover saves are very hard to get against (especially for vehicles). If you can't kill a few Rhinos or Trukks with that, I can't help but feel you are doing something very, very, very wrong. A brood of 3 on average will kill a Trukk or Rhino per turn on average through hull point stripping alone.
Aye, lots of terrain, but sadly Battlewagons provide armour 14, at best I can glance the Battlewagon with a 6, yet to happen, but given our medium range, the Battle Wagon sits out of range, then moves to within Rokkit range, and no more Hive Guard.
It is really depressing. Mechanization is my bane, the answers that I bring to the table to answer it are neutralised by turn 2. Then I just watch as my army is taken apart piece by piece.
stonehorse wrote: Aye, lots of terrain, but sadly Battlewagons provide armour 14, at best I can glance the Battlewagon with a 6, yet to happen, but given our medium range, the Battle Wagon sits out of range, then moves to within Rokkit range, and no more Hive Guard.
You are hiding out of LoS, right?
It is really depressing. Mechanization is my bane, the answers that I bring to the table to answer it are neutralised by turn 2. Then I just watch as my army is taken apart piece by piece.
If your opponents are that predictable it should be easy to take them apart.
Not to sound funny, but I have been playing since 2nd edition, so have enough game knowledge to know the basics.
My model collection is very Horde based, again, this comes from being an old timer. The image of a Horde rushing towards the enemy is how I've always viewed Tyranids. Could be that I need to invest in new models, namely Flying Hive Tyrants with 2 sets of twin-linked Brainworm devourers.
What I am still getting used to is how slow Tyranids are this edition. Still it is odd that I find Tau and Imperial Guard an easier force to fight against than Marines and Orks, which from reading the internet is an oddity.
stonehorse wrote: Not to sound funny, but I have been playing since 2nd edition, so have enough game knowledge to know the basics.
My model collection is very Horde based, again, this comes from being an old timer. The image of a Horde rushing towards the enemy is how I've always viewed Tyranids. Could be that I need to invest in new models, namely Flying Hive Tyrants with 2 sets of twin-linked Brainworm devourers.
What I am still getting used to is how slow Tyranids are this edition. Still it is odd that I find Tau and Imperial Guard an easier force to fight against than Marines and Orks, which from reading the internet is an oddity.
So you are hiding out of sight then?
Hive guard for me in 8/10 games at least double there points back.
Exorcine is really underwhelming if the Carnifexes are that cheap IMO. Carnifexes with TLdevs+BLW will be more durable point for point, just as good against MEQ, probably better in combat and fire way more shots. They're not even much worse against a Riptide point for point even (assuming they stay S6, which is likely as in the battle report 2 with 2 TLdevs fire 24 shots and "easily" kill the objective, which would have barely worked if they were S5). Honestly, I just don't really get the gap it's meant to fill. Low AP large blasts? Maybe, but they still don't even do that super well with only 24" range. If it stands still, it's like having 6 plasma guns - strong enough but really not that outstanding. Without the mobility and durability of the Riptide, I just don't see it being useful.
The Crone may be brutal though. If rerollable means "hangs around for a turn or 2", then those "missiles" are the first not-awful ones we've had. Even without, S8 AP3 vector strikes are nasty. I can see a lot of potential for that, especially if the vomit cannon is decent.
Honestly, my biggest concern ATM is what nids will do about troops. If they don't get ally slots and Tervigons are really that much more expensive, they'll struggle a bit. Who knows. I'm pretty excited, I don't think they're going to be an amazing codex but hopefully they'll be enough to change things up a little bit more.
It looks like the WD has shows some psychic cards (from the looks of the youtube video) can anyone with a copy tell us if those pics of cards tell us anything about the psychic powers?
Zookie wrote: It looks like the WD has shows some psychic cards (from the looks of the youtube video) can anyone with a copy tell us if those pics of cards tell us anything about the psychic powers?
Warp blast is same stats as today, but has both profiles listed under the power, warp charge 2. I'd assume that's power #6 on the chart.
Also supports the rumor that zoans are warp charge 2, but master level 1. It would allow them to use warp blast without giving them 2 power each if they decide to roll elsewhere.
Zookie wrote: It looks like the WD has shows some psychic cards (from the looks of the youtube video) can anyone with a copy tell us if those pics of cards tell us anything about the psychic powers?
Warp blast is same stats as today, but has both profiles listed under the power, warp charge 2. I'd assume that's power #6 on the chart.
Also supports the rumor that zoans are warp charge 2, but master level 1. It would allow them to use warp blast without giving them 2 power each if they decide to roll elsewhere.
With only 1 roll the only other table I could think to roll on for zoanthropes would be telepathy to get psychic shriek. However I have a feeling zoeys will be locked into warp blast and not allowed to roll. :-/. 8 more days...
I doubt they will be locked into warp blast. Im more worried about them being given a brotherhood of psykers style setup. Similar to what daemons have. The more zoans you take the stronger your warp blast will be. However if you roll for shriek you would only get one attack not the three we have become accustomed too.
Backlash wrote: I doubt they will be locked into warp blast. Im more worried about them being given a brotherhood of psykers style setup. Similar to what daemons have. The more zoans you take the stronger your warp blast will be. However if you roll for shriek you would only get one attack not the three we have become accustomed too.
I think there's pretty much zero chance of that happening. On the bright side, if it DID happen, zoans would only be worth about 25 points each then.
Ok a couple things I gleaned from the HD read through of the white dwarf:
1.) pg 26 - bio artifacts and instinctive behavior TABLES. So looks like no longer will being out of synapse cause a ld check then an activity. I bet instead it's an automatic D3 roll on a lurk, feed, or hunt table.
2.) contains rules for "all existing" tyranid models. I predict the return of the RED TERROR as a unique ravener.
3.) pg 143 - the crone missiles are called "tentaclids". They attack aircraft using "bio static energy". I predict they will have the haywire rule to represent this. Basically the crone's primary attack will be the s8 vector strike, with a haywire missile or 2 to finish the job when necessary.
"Bio-artifacts" just sound odd to me. Tyranids makes critters as they need them- where exactly are these artifacts coming from? Old gene-stock they dredged up from the back of the hive ship?
tetrisphreak wrote: Ok a couple things I gleaned from the HD read through of the white dwarf:
1.) pg 26 - bio artifacts and instinctive behavior TABLES. So looks like no longer will being out of synapse cause a ld check then an activity. I bet instead it's an automatic D3 roll on a lurk, feed, or hunt table.
2.) contains rules for "all existing" tyranid models. I predict the return of the RED TERROR as a unique ravener.
3.) pg 143 - the crone missiles are called "tentaclids". They attack aircraft using "bio static energy". I predict they will have the haywire rule to represent this. Basically the crone's primary attack will be the s8 vector strike, with a haywire missile or 2 to finish the job when necessary.
I read these as well, and agree with your assessments.
(I posted #1 a page ago....).
On #2, the red terror is also listed as a mini available from GW later in the book.
(along with the zoey, etc.).
On #3, in the design section, it talks about them chewing on cables and electrocuting pilots (fluffy explanation) and I think its referred to as a pulse.
So, I HOPE its haywire, but it could just be an attack....
Which, they also in the battlereport refer to the trygon prime's attack as a "pulse" ....are they related? who knows.
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Sinful Hero wrote: "Bio-artifacts" just sound odd to me. Tyranids makes critters as they need them- where exactly are these artifacts coming from? Old gene-stock they dredged up from the back of the hive ship?
I am sure it is just unique upgrades, like the eternal shield for the marines and the puretide chip for the tau - only one per army.
Fluff wise....they could just be unique or sentient biomorphs...like the swarmlord is unique...in that more than one of them can't be grown at a time.
Sinful Hero wrote: "Bio-artifacts" just sound odd to me. Tyranids makes critters as they need them- where exactly are these artifacts coming from? Old gene-stock they dredged up from the back of the hive ship?
I googled the actual definition of the word artefact and found: 1. something made or given shape by man, such as a tool or a work of art, esp an object of archaeological interest.
Obviously this isn't man made stuff but I'll bet it's just a word to describe rare chitinous plating, boneswords, symbiotic weapons, and bio morphs. Terminology aside it's standard 6e codex stuff. The warlord traits table is also mentioned. I'm curious as to what those are. I hope someone gets an early copy of the codex soon.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
Sinful Hero wrote: I understand it's pretty standard 6th edition stuff, just I couldn't think of a good fluff explanation for it.
Ahhh....ok.
Well, I think it would not be hard to make up fluff for unique nid stuff, but I also thought it was easy to nerf ctan and fragment the necrons without the terrible fluff they got too, so who knows what kind of silly fluff nids may have.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
They sort of are, actually. They have very similar toughness and unit footprint, and both have a gun designed for destroying light vehicles. Hive Guard do it from behind cover with slightly higher strength giving them the edge on medium vehicles, Exocrines do it in the open with better AP. The Exocrine gains additional utility by being good against heavy infantry as well due to the higher AP, and larger units of light infantry by being able to pieplate a unit.
Both of them sit in the same field of 'short to mid ranged fire support'. It just depends what you face more of which will bring one of them to the fore for you - light vehicles or heavy infantry. Personally, my Hive Guard are useless after turn 2 when all vehicles are gone. I end up suicide charging them to hold units up. The Exocrine looks like it'll fill the same role for me but have more utility against my normal opponents.
Sinful Hero wrote: "Bio-artifacts" just sound odd to me. Tyranids makes critters as they need them- where exactly are these artifacts coming from? Old gene-stock they dredged up from the back of the hive ship?
Well, like the Swarmlord there is only one of, maybe these bio-artifacts are generally something not mass produced.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
They sort of are, actually. They have very similar toughness and unit footprint, and both have a gun designed for destroying light vehicles. Hive Guard do it from behind cover with slightly higher strength giving them the edge on medium vehicles, Exocrines do it in the open with better AP. The Exocrine gains additional utility by being good against heavy infantry as well due to the higher AP, and larger units of light infantry by being able to pieplate a unit.
Both of them sit in the same field of 'short to mid ranged fire support'. It just depends what you face more of which will bring one of them to the fore for you - light vehicles or heavy infantry. Personally, my Hive Guard are useless after turn 2 when all vehicles are gone. I end up suicide charging them to hold units up. The Exocrine looks like it'll fill the same role for me but have more utility against my normal opponents.
Yeah, with significantly less vehicles, I don' see the impaler cannon being as useful anymore. We'll have to see the stats on the new Shockcannon to find if Hive guard have a place.
I'm actually cooling a lot on this release. Now I'm just planning on grabbing the codex and Exocrine, and seeing where my army falls before I buy more.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
They sort of are, actually. They have very similar toughness and unit footprint, and both have a gun designed for destroying light vehicles. Hive Guard do it from behind cover with slightly higher strength giving them the edge on medium vehicles, Exocrines do it in the open with better AP. The Exocrine gains additional utility by being good against heavy infantry as well due to the higher AP, and larger units of light infantry by being able to pieplate a unit.
Both of them sit in the same field of 'short to mid ranged fire support'. It just depends what you face more of which will bring one of them to the fore for you - light vehicles or heavy infantry. Personally, my Hive Guard are useless after turn 2 when all vehicles are gone. I end up suicide charging them to hold units up. The Exocrine looks like it'll fill the same role for me but have more utility against my normal opponents.
Yeah, with significantly less vehicles, I don' see the impaler cannon being as useful anymore. We'll have to see the stats on the new Shockcannon to find if Hive guard have a place.
Even with few(er) vehicles in many armies, S8 shots that ignore LoS and cover (usually, I'm sure the new hg will simply gave the "ignores cover" rule) is nothing to sneeze at. Especially with so many units now that depend on cover saves (bikes/jetbikes, flying MCs, skimmers)
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
They sort of are, actually. They have very similar toughness and unit footprint, and both have a gun designed for destroying light vehicles. Hive Guard do it from behind cover with slightly higher strength giving them the edge on medium vehicles, Exocrines do it in the open with better AP. The Exocrine gains additional utility by being good against heavy infantry as well due to the higher AP, and larger units of light infantry by being able to pieplate a unit.
Both of them sit in the same field of 'short to mid ranged fire support'. It just depends what you face more of which will bring one of them to the fore for you - light vehicles or heavy infantry. Personally, my Hive Guard are useless after turn 2 when all vehicles are gone. I end up suicide charging them to hold units up. The Exocrine looks like it'll fill the same role for me but have more utility against my normal opponents.
Yeah, with significantly less vehicles, I don' see the impaler cannon being as useful anymore. We'll have to see the stats on the new Shockcannon to find if Hive guard have a place.
My guess (and just a guess) is that the the impaler cannon will stay on as our light anti tank gun and the shockcannon (nid taser?) will be our MC gun. Here is my prediction with the stats 24" Assault 2 S 4 AP 4 (Fleshbane)
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: Even with few(er) vehicles in many armies, S8 shots that ignore LoS and cover (usually, I'm sure the new hg will simply gave the "ignores cover" rule) is nothing to sneeze at. Especially with so many units now that depend on cover saves (bikes/jetbikes, flying MCs, skimmers)
The problem is they are S8 AP4. That AP4 really kills their utility against infantry. Anything you want to shoot S8 at will have a 3+ save or better, while anything with a 4+ save or worse is in such numbers that you just don't have enough shots to matter.
stonehorse wrote: 24" range on the Exocrine... please let this be wrong. So far the only good things that I have heard about this new Codex are the price reductions, but they don't seem like they are going to be enough to help.
24" for artillery, that's not even funny.
But the Hive Guard is fine being 24"?
You can get a brood of 3 Hive Guard for 20 points less than the price of one Exocrine. Not really comparable.
They sort of are, actually. They have very similar toughness and unit footprint, and both have a gun designed for destroying light vehicles. Hive Guard do it from behind cover with slightly higher strength giving them the edge on medium vehicles, Exocrines do it in the open with better AP. The Exocrine gains additional utility by being good against heavy infantry as well due to the higher AP, and larger units of light infantry by being able to pieplate a unit.
Both of them sit in the same field of 'short to mid ranged fire support'. It just depends what you face more of which will bring one of them to the fore for you - light vehicles or heavy infantry. Personally, my Hive Guard are useless after turn 2 when all vehicles are gone. I end up suicide charging them to hold units up. The Exocrine looks like it'll fill the same role for me but have more utility against my normal opponents.
Yeah, with significantly less vehicles, I don' see the impaler cannon being as useful anymore. We'll have to see the stats on the new Shockcannon to find if Hive guard have a place.
Even with few(er) vehicles in many armies, S8 shots that ignore LoS and cover (usually, I'm sure the new hg will simply gave the "ignores cover" rule) is nothing to sneeze at. Especially with so many units now that depend on cover saves (bikes/jetbikes, flying MCs, skimmers)
This is quite true as well. I wouldn't shoot at FMCs though, when we have excellent AA in the form of the Crone.
We'll just have to wait and see the new stats and costs on them.
Overall.. just need the codex, and some serious evaluation time! lol.
Therion wrote: They could have made the Tyrannofex a more close range assault fire beast and let the Exocrine take over the long range shooting.
The Tyrannofex is a close range assault beast. Using the Rupture Cannon as the basis of your opinion of the Tyrannofex gives a misleading impression on it. Look at the rest of the beast. T6, W6, and the only 2+ save in the army outside of a Hive Tyrant (in 5th). Comes standard with either an assault 5 or large blast S5 weapon and a thorax swarm. Its other 2 primary weapons are a rather nasty template or a 12" range, assault 20 anti light infantry gun. The Tyrannofex was made for close range warfare. The reason people found the Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex overpriced was because they were wasting its other 2 weapons, which are included in the base price, since it never got in range to use them, and wasted its rather tough stats by never taking enough hits to make them worth it. Putting a Rupture Cannon on it is defeating the purpose of the rest of the unit. Not to mention at BS 3 the Rupture Cannon is pretty terrible.
The problems come from the fact that it isn't fast enough to catch much with its rather good short ranged firepower, and doesn't have the assault stats to resist the inevitable return assault. It'll get powerfisted to death after nuking one unit - if it reaches one.
The Rupture Cannon feels almost like the creation of the Vindicator. The Space Marines needed a linebreaker tank and only had Rhino chassis. Not the toughest chassis ever, but managed to toughen it up and strap a Demolisher cannon to it, which got the job done. Similarly, the Rupture Cannon almost feels the same way - the Hive Mind needed the firepower of a Heirpohant but didn't have the biomass to dedicate to one, so they strapped a similarly powerful gun to the biggest creature they had the resources to make, and the 'template' stayed around.
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say. The Hive Mind created the Tyrannofex and/or the Exocrine? I can give you a hint about who created them: It's printed on your codex credits. Let's take your whole presumption the other way around: The Tyrannofex was made for long range warfare but then GW in their infinite wisdom gave it a 'complimentary overcosted defensive short range weapon' and BS3. The way they give points costs to units is completely random anyway. I used to play club games vs Tyranids where we house ruled T Fexes with Rupture Cannons to 200 points and the games were quite balanced. Seems like GW noticed something was wrong too at a five year delay.
So my point stands, if the designers wanted Nids to have a long range monstrous creature, looking at the models, the Exocrine should be it, not the Tyrannofex. As far as tabletop performance goes it's completely irrelevant though as long as atleast one of them is points efficient or better.
Plus 3 Fex's with heavy venom cannons and whatever else you give them is nothing to sniff at.
If the AP or stupid -1 to vehicles changes on HVC gets better I can honestly see me running fex's with HVC, talons and bioplasma. That would be a unit not to screw with.
I'm slightly bothered with the additions of the new creatures only because they really do crowd up FOC slots that are already a rather rough choice between. If the Haruspex does go elite that would honesly be terrible since there are already a flood of choices that are or could be viable in the new edition. With the Endocrine the Heavies is also really crowded with the point dropped fexes, trygons, and biovores also in the same spot. I like the idea of the Haruspex but the endocrine isn't really a needed addition especially with its short range shooting. It simply needed a bit more range. 36" would have been fine. Then it can out range most infantry firepower
dmthomas7 wrote: I'm slightly bothered with the additions of the new creatures only because they really do crowd up FOC slots that are already a rather rough choice between. If the Haruspex does go elite that would honesly be terrible since there are already a flood of choices that are or could be viable in the new edition. With the Endocrine the Heavies is also really crowded with the point dropped fexes, trygons, and biovores also in the same spot. I like the idea of the Haruspex but the endocrine isn't really a needed addition especially with its short range shooting. It simply needed a bit more range. 36" would have been fine. Then it can out range most infantry firepower
I personally can't wait, to have at least 3+ hard choices for which units to choose from in each slot! The only choices that are looking like they are going to be fairly easy is HQ and Troops. But then that could change depending on what happens with Warriors/Primes, Stealers and Gaunts. If there is something hidden from us that will make these useful, the whole codex becomes a challenge to pick an army from. Which is what I want more than anything.
I would have liked to see the lictors relocate to the FA slot. I do agree that everything is such a tough choice in the new codex. Hopefully the ally rules can help us mitigate a few of our woes when it comes to picking our units.
Well if the Vanguard Infestation dataslate is a formation like the Tau Firebase Support Cadre or the Stormwing for Space Marines, we could presumably field lictors and/or genestealers without taking up ANY force org slots. That's of course assuming it works in the same way as the already-released 40k formations. As to whether or not the rules will be good enough to field the models in this manner is entirely a different matter altogether.
So here we are, about 8-9 days away from codex release. The following are my wishlists for a few things we've not seen from the white dwarf:
1.) Lictors - as mentioned above, i want them to be fieldable. A protection the turn they show up, such as the rumored "Surprise" rule would be excellent.
2.) Speed - the codex as a whole needs to be faster to reach CC. Beast movement, additional distance while running, running followed by assault would all go miles towards correcting our lumbering book as it currently stands.
3.) POISON PROTECTION - i played a game vs dark eldar venomspam on sunday that was an utter joke. 5 venoms outranged and out shot my entire army, and with no protection from their 4+ poison rule my 3+ save monstrous creatures died as quickly as space marines. A biomorph for our big bugs that gives them -1 to poison damage would be amazing and is probably my biggest wishlist of all.
4.) Instant Death avoidance - warriors have always been a great looking unit on the table. I'd like to be able to field 1 or 2 units of them, with the hopes that a single volley of fire from a long fang team wouldn't eliminate the entire unit.... so we'll see.
tetrisphreak wrote: Well if the Vanguard Infestation dataslate is a formation like the Tau Firebase Support Cadre or the Stormwing for Space Marines, we could presumably field lictors and/or genestealers without taking up ANY force org slots. That's of course assuming it works in the same way as the already-released 40k formations. As to whether or not the rules will be good enough to field the models in this manner is entirely a different matter altogether.
So here we are, about 8-9 days away from codex release. The following are my wishlists for a few things we've not seen from the white dwarf:
1.) Lictors - as mentioned above, i want them to be fieldable. A protection the turn they show up, such as the rumored "Surprise" rule would be excellent.
2.) Speed - the codex as a whole needs to be faster to reach CC. Beast movement, additional distance while running, running followed by assault would all go miles towards correcting our lumbering book as it currently stands.
3.) POISON PROTECTION - i played a game vs dark eldar venomspam on sunday that was an utter joke. 5 venoms outranged and out shot my entire army, and with no protection from their 4+ poison rule my 3+ save monstrous creatures died as quickly as space marines. A biomorph for our big bugs that gives them -1 to poison damage would be amazing and is probably my biggest wishlist of all.
4.) Instant Death avoidance - warriors have always been a great looking unit on the table. I'd like to be able to field 1 or 2 units of them, with the hopes that a single volley of fire from a long fang team wouldn't eliminate the entire unit.... so we'll see.
Sorry to say but the only one of your wish list that has a chance to happen is Lictors might be playable. The rest we would already know now as all the troop entries have been shown and there are no additional rules listed outside of what was in their entries from last edition (what I mean is something like "Battle Focus" which would allow you to run and assault instead of moving and shooting for example). Hormagaunts aren't beasts, and I would imagine the only beasts in the codex will be Ravaners (still) and maybe the Haruspex as it has so many similarities to the Maulerfiend. The only army that really has poison are the Dark Eldar, so a poison mitigating biomorph is very unlikely as nobody would take it unless they knew they were fighting DE. As for ID avoidance I also can't see that as GW has been going out of their way for a while now to greatly reduce the amount of units that have Eternal Warrior (it was removed from the ENTIRE Demon codex for instance). I am totally with you though as I would love every single one of those and would also wish them to be in the codex, specifically the first two.
From everything we have seen we should be expecting a book that is very similar to the 5th ed codex as was shown with the troops being almost carbon copies out of the 5th ed book, with minor tweaks and points adjustments. That being said this would be my wishlist for the new book (not holding my breath though).
1) Cleaned Up Ranged Weapon Section: Basically resetting the complete mess that Cruddace left us with. Restoring Venom Cannons to their AT role (high strength, multi shot, remove blast) and moving Death Spitters back to being blast weapons are my two biggest hopes for the entire codex. You know it's sad when a book has 32 ranged weapons but has LESS variation then the previous book with 7 entries.
2) Cleaned Up Special Rules: Things like the Trygon Tunnel (worst rule I have ever read), Pyrovores, Onslaught psychic power (seriously...a shooting power you have to target your own troops????), etc. all need to be cleaned up and would go a LONG way to making this book really good.
3) Reduced Points Costs on MCs: This is already in effect, couldn't be happier.
4) Retaining The "Come From All Sides" Deployment Aspect of the 5th Ed Codex: Big hope here as this is my single fave thing from the 5th ed book and it is what made me keep playing it.
5) Adding Real Choice to the Army: This is probably the worst thing about the 5th ed codex. Every time you play against Tyranids right now you know you are fighting 3-5 Tervigons, a Flyrant or two, some Trygons and Hive Guard. That is it. Things look promising on this one as well.
After reading all the rumors I remain very hopeful that all these are in the book as everything we have seen in regards to changes have been very positive and much needed. Can't wait to finally get rid of the 5th ed codex lol.
The problem is they are S8 AP4. That AP4 really kills their utility against infantry. Anything you want to shoot S8 at will have a 3+ save or better, while anything with a 4+ save or worse is in such numbers that you just don't have enough shots to matter.
The problem is they are S8 AP4. That AP4 really kills their utility against infantry. Anything you want to shoot S8 at will have a 3+ save or better, while anything with a 4+ save or worse is in such numbers that you just don't have enough shots to matter.
So a few of you mentioned yesterday that I might want the new Hive Tyrant kit as an HQ option for the initial purchases I planned (even if Old One Eye ends up being a HQ option)...
... did you guys mean the "Hive Tyrant Guard" box for (rumored) $70USD? I don't see a "Hive Tyrant" on its own.
I assume this kit has the bits needed to make a Tyrant and then two of its Guard? Is that a legal unit, or would I need additional Hive Guard, based on the old codex?
So, again, I know it might have changed, but based on old FOC, if I bought the stuff listed, could I use it all at 1500pts - 2000pts? (Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Exocrine, then Hive Tyrant + Guard, plus all sorts of troop choices)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So a few of you mentioned yesterday that I might want the new Hive Tyrant kit as an HQ option for the initial purchases I planned (even if Old One Eye ends up being a HQ option)...
... did you guys mean the "Hive Tyrant Guard" box for (rumored) $70USD? I don't see a "Hive Tyrant" on its own.
I assume this kit has the bits needed to make a Tyrant and then two of its Guard? Is that a legal unit, or would I need additional Hive Guard, based on the old codex?
So, again, I know it might have changed, but based on old FOC, if I bought the stuff listed, could I use it all at 1500pts - 2000pts? (Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Exocrine, then Hive Tyrant + Guard, plus all sorts of troop choices)
The "new" Hive Tyrant box is the one that came out recently, but not with this release. It's still "new" because it's the most recent
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So a few of you mentioned yesterday that I might want the new Hive Tyrant kit as an HQ option for the initial purchases I planned (even if Old One Eye ends up being a HQ option)...
... did you guys mean the "Hive Tyrant Guard" box for (rumored) $70USD? I don't see a "Hive Tyrant" on its own.
I assume this kit has the bits needed to make a Tyrant and then two of its Guard? Is that a legal unit, or would I need additional Hive Guard, based on the old codex?
So, again, I know it might have changed, but based on old FOC, if I bought the stuff listed, could I use it all at 1500pts - 2000pts? (Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Exocrine, then Hive Tyrant + Guard, plus all sorts of troop choices)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So a few of you mentioned yesterday that I might want the new Hive Tyrant kit as an HQ option for the initial purchases I planned (even if Old One Eye ends up being a HQ option)...
... did you guys mean the "Hive Tyrant Guard" box for (rumored) $70USD? I don't see a "Hive Tyrant" on its own.
I assume this kit has the bits needed to make a Tyrant and then two of its Guard? Is that a legal unit, or would I need additional Hive Guard, based on the old codex?
So, again, I know it might have changed, but based on old FOC, if I bought the stuff listed, could I use it all at 1500pts - 2000pts? (Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Exocrine, then Hive Tyrant + Guard, plus all sorts of troop choices)
The Hive Tyrant box is a seperate thing to the soon to be released Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard box. The Hive Tyrant kit allowsd you to build one Hive Tyrant either walking or Flying or one Swarmlord kit.
And yes you'll have no problem fitting that into an FOC.
Well the design notes in the WD talk about new bioelectro-shock weaponry in the tyranid list so could be haywire[sounds like that's what the new hive guard weapon has as well].
I wonder if the various bio-electric attacks are all getting haywire. The Trygon in the battlereport did quite a bit of damage with its field shooting...
Bodiless wrote: I wonder if the various bio-electric attacks are all getting haywire. The Trygon in the battlereport did quite a bit of damage with its field shooting...
Edit for clarity.
That would explain the separate rumors of Hive Guard getting an anti-air weapon and the revealed electric gun they got.
Bodiless wrote: I wonder if the various bio-electric attacks are all getting haywire. The Trygon in the battlereport did quite a bit of damage with its field shooting...
Edit for clarity.
If would be nice, but I doubt it.
I think the trygon did well because currently a prime gets 12 shots - which is quite nice.
I do believe that they may fluff wise be the same thing (they called the trygon attack in the description a "bio-electric pulse" attack) - but who knows what the rules will be.
At this point, I am hoping we will get some actual (valid) codex leaks soon - a lot of stuff I am seeing around the net is either speculation, wish-listing or angst over some of the non-verified stuff (which I won't list, because some of that angst finally died down here...) a lot of "false" rumors as well, which are what happens when someone speculates then someone else does not read it well, but repeats it...."I read that...".
Now back to stuff we know....
In checking the US version of the GW site
Under Essentials:
- the only thing left there is paints.
HQ:
- only tervigon and hive tyrant
Troop:
- Gants, Hormagants, stealers, FC broodlord, FC rippers, and the $10 termagants
Elites:
- FC Zoey, FC Pyrovore, FC - Lictor, FC - Deathleaper, FC-Venomthrope
Fast:
- Ravenors, Gargs, FC Red Terror (fast?), FC Spore mines
Heavy:
- Tervigon, Trygon, Fex, FC-Biovore.
So, looks like some things are missing:
Codex, Warriors, Hive Guard, Tyrant Guard....maybe something else, not sure.
(although the living fortress apoc formation is still there which has tyrant guard and hive guard in it).
Jackal wrote: Old one eye is gone from GW site.
Hoping its not a new kit since im half way through painting him up at the moment.
The swarm box description says it has parts to make old one eye. I almost think they just expect a regeneration head/crushing claws/scything talons carnifex to field as count-as for this purpose.
Either way he's in the battle report so i wouldn't worry about losing him in the codex - yours will be extra authentic.
In checking the US version of the GW site
Under Essentials:
- the only thing left there is paints.
HQ:
- only tervigon and hive tyrant
Troop:
- Gants, Hormagants, stealers, FC broodlord, FC rippers, and the $10 termagants
Elites:
- FC Zoey, FC Pyrovore, FC - Lictor, FC - Deathleaper, FC-Venomthrope
Fast:
- Ravenors, Gargs, FC Red Terror (fast?), FC Spore mines
Heavy:
- Tervigon, Trygon, Fex, FC-Biovore.
So, looks like some things are missing:
Codex, Warriors, Hive Guard, Tyrant Guard, Old one Eye
Ok, so Old one eye is missing as well (as mentioned by others, you make him from the parts in the carnifex kit - yes, the one with half his face blown off).
Old one eye is gone, well I was only ever going to build one from carnifex kit anyway, so that's no big loss. I'm surprised Red Terror hasn't gone either.
Yeah, I was surprised to see the Red Terror still on there. I was also surprised to see the single Carnifex kit on there. Is the new 2x Carnifex kit going to just be limited time or something?
DO ITTOIT wrote: There will just be a special head for him in the Carnifex box now.
There already is. The regeneration head.
Which is the one with half it's face blown off?
Yes. The only real distinction visualy between Old One Eye and the 3rd edition Carnifexes was the plasma scar on the face and barnacles on the crushing claws. It's easy enough making Old One Eye from the Carnifex box by giving him the Regeneration head, Crushing Claws and Scything Talons.
DO ITTOIT wrote: There will just be a special head for him in the Carnifex box now.
There already is. The regeneration head.
Which is the one with half it's face blown off?
Yes. The only real distinction visualy between Old One Eye and the 3rd edition Carnifexes was the plasma scar on the face and barnacles on the crushing claws. It's easy enough making Old One Eye from the Carnifex box by giving him the Regeneration head, Crushing Claws and Scything Talons.
Yeah, if you wanted to go the extra mile you could convert those huge FW claws to fit on one arm instead of 2 and give him some Trygon claws to make him seem a bit beefier.
DO ITTOIT wrote: There will just be a special head for him in the Carnifex box now.
There already is. The regeneration head.
Which is the one with half it's face blown off?
Yes. The only real distinction visualy between Old One Eye and the 3rd edition Carnifexes was the plasma scar on the face and barnacles on the crushing claws. It's easy enough making Old One Eye from the Carnifex box by giving him the Regeneration head, Crushing Claws and Scything Talons.
Yeah, if you wanted to go the extra mile you could convert those huge FW claws to fit on one arm instead of 2 and give him some Trygon claws to make him seem a bit beefier.
I used tervigon crushing claws and kitbashed scything talons from sets of 3. I'm happy with the results.
DO ITTOIT wrote: There will just be a special head for him in the Carnifex box now.
There already is. The regeneration head.
Which is the one with half it's face blown off?
Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the regeneration head has half its face blown off? If it's the regeneration head, wouldn't it have regenerated?
Not as much as they used to, where one would sometimes leak up to one a month in advance. But pre-orders sometimes arrive early, so we could possibly see something popping up in the next week.
But hey, worst case scenario, we'll just have to wait 1 more week.
I assume the Carnifex can be taken as a HQ is the swarm box is to follow the current "big army box" trend of being playable right away.
if so it is one excelent looking starting point for new Nid players, with the only real down side being the lack of any new minis. looks like you could get a damn good army for around £200 (which i always think is a pretty reasonable sum for a 1000-1500 point force. )
At this rate, foot guard could become a viable option price wise!
Agreed. 2 boxes from dark sphere should cost something around 150£, and give a nice 190 minies to play. A cool horde army to play (but I love hordes, yes I know it is not the most OP thing ever). Add some synapes, and you have a proper 200 minies at 1500 below 200£. Maybe not the most OP thing, but give fun games.
Sinful Hero wrote: Or they improved his swarm leader abilities to being more than "use his leadership for instinctive behavior".
I would imagine it would have to be something along those lines, because going by the WD blurbs on instinctive behavior it's a roll on a table now depending on which mode your unit has - lurk, hunt, feed. What's unknown is if starting a turn out of synapse still causes a leadership test to see if you abide by the tables, or if you fail automatically and have to abide by whatever chart you're given to roll on.
1 week out, and still so much unknown about this codex. So close, yet so far.....
If you don't mind paying full retail price, pre-ordering it from GW's online store usually gets you the codex on or a few days before its release date.
The What's New Today blog post on Games Workshop's website talks about the white dwarf tomorrow. No real news here, but it does mention the tyranid/tau battle report.
Souleater wrote: Physical copy direct from GW might arrive several days early.
gorgon wrote: I pre-ordered the last Tyranid codex from GW and it arrived 4 or 5 days late. This time I'll just get it on Saturday morning from a local retailer.
Yeah, I was under the impression that they adjusted their shipping procedures several years ago so that early codex deliveries didn't happen anymore (at least outside of the UK).
All I know is that the last 3 times I tried for the early delivery moonshot (2007 DA, 2010 Tyranids, and 2012 Vampire Counts) the books arrived up to a week late each time.
Has anyone (US) ever preordered a codex or anything from Spikey Bits or Miniature Market? Figured I'd go through them for 20% off, but I'm curious when I could expect the book to arrive on my doorstep if I do.
DO ITTOIT wrote: Has anyone (US) ever preordered a codex or anything from Spikey Bits or Miniature Market? Figured I'd go through them for 20% off, but I'm curious when I could expect the book to arrive on my doorstep if I do.
For North America all orders that are put in a timey fashion get their boxes on the Wednesday before release. So best case they get it Wednesday and it in the mail that night to ship out Thursday morning.
The best way to get a copy early is to go through a LFGS on the Wednesday. Sadly GW has policies in place that punish stores for releasing things early, so it might be difficult to do so unless you're on good terms with the owner and he knows you aren't going to nark him out. Other then that, work for LFGS or GW and you get to read it well before buying it.
Well, for my "starter" army purchases, I've settled on the following...
I'll get the Codex, the Swarm box/bundle, an Exocrine/Haruspex box, a Tervigon/Terranorex box, and a Hive Tyrant (as per everyone's recommendations). I also own my aforementioned 28 or so Genestealers. That purchase will fit budget, and without accounting for upgrades, gives me 1400-1500ishpts, meaning I might be able to pull of the 1750pts played in the local meta without problem.
So, I've never been around for a real army launch, as C:SM was my first (and I only got a StrikeForce), but people have mentioned that online shops tend to have discounts on pre-orders?
Are there any US online shops already confirmed to be taking pre-orders? If so, which, and when can I expect to be able to place my order? Based on the amount I was planning to spend, a 25% discount + free shipping would essentially mean a free Carnifex Brood box for me, if I don't order from GW directly.
Edit: Miniature's Market has a flat 20% and free shipping, I see... but can't advertise product, so I guess tomorrow I just "call" them and order over the phone?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well, for my "starter" army purchases, I've settled on the following...
I'll get the Codex, the Swarm box/bundle, an Exocrine/Haruspex box, a Tervigon/Terranorex box, and a Hive Tyrant (as per everyone's recommendations). I also own my aforementioned 28 or so Genestealers. That purchase will fit budget, and without accounting for upgrades, gives me 1400-1500ishpts, meaning I might be able to pull of the 1750pts played in the local meta without problem.
So, I've never been around for a real army launch, as C:SM was my first (and I only got a StrikeForce), but people have mentioned that online shops tend to have discounts on pre-orders?
Are there any US online shops already confirmed to be taking pre-orders? If so, which, and when can I expect to be able to place my order? Based on the amount I was planning to spend, a 25% discount + free shipping would essentially mean a free Carnifex Brood box for me, if I don't order from GW directly.
There are no online shops anymore, unless they take phone orders.
Also, wait for the book, otherwise you may find you wasted money. Proxy before you Pay.
CaptKaruthors wrote: I wonder if this codex will have any Lord of War entries in it.
I doubt it -- in the battle report Jes fields a Hierodule, and the white dwarf specifically states the rules for it can be found in IA Apocalypse.
Wait, so what you're saying is that Games Workshop includes a ForgeWorld model in their official battle report?
/canofworms
Yes, and they have been including foregworld stuff in various WD articles for a while now, and even mention FW in the daily blog on their site.
I am sure other threads will pick this up later, just hopefully not this one.
</canofworms>
regarding orders, in the recent past a few people who mailed order their books did get them early, I recall a couple who got them on friday before release.
Also, as I had posted before about stuff disappearing - while the hive guard and tyrant guard were gone yesterday, now the formation with them is gone as well.
Only the carnifex is still there. Perhaps they are trying to sell as many as possible at he older price point before the new one (one of the fewer things that got cheaper).
A lot of times on dakka when you submit a post it will show a double post when in reality it's just a glitch. Let it sit a couple minutes before going back to edit and make sure it's not just a hiccup.
tetrisphreak wrote:
CaptKaruthors wrote:
I wonder if this codex will have any Lord of War entries in it.
I doubt it -- in the battle report Jes fields a Hierodule, and the white dwarf specifically states the rules for it can be found in IA Apocalypse.
I don't see why not if the Escalation rules are fully integrated into the game. :shrug: If anything, if the Nid codex did have a Lord of War FOC selection in there...it would definitely make waves in the tourney community.
tetrisphreak wrote:
CaptKaruthors wrote:
I wonder if this codex will have any Lord of War entries in it.
I doubt it -- in the battle report Jes fields a Hierodule, and the white dwarf specifically states the rules for it can be found in IA Apocalypse.
I don't see why not if the Escalation rules are fully integrated into the game. :shrug: If anything, if the Nid codex did have a Lord of War FOC selection in there...it would definitely make waves in the tourney community.
I understand that sentiment. I just don't expect to see a Lord of War in the tyranid codex. Maybe the Imperial Guard or Orks will have one when they come out, but not Nids. If i'm wrong all the better for us.
tetrisphreak wrote:
CaptKaruthors wrote:
I wonder if this codex will have any Lord of War entries in it.
I doubt it -- in the battle report Jes fields a Hierodule, and the white dwarf specifically states the rules for it can be found in IA Apocalypse.
I don't see why not if the Escalation rules are fully integrated into the game. :shrug: If anything, if the Nid codex did have a Lord of War FOC selection in there...it would definitely make waves in the tourney community.
I understand that sentiment. I just don't expect to see a Lord of War in the tyranid codex. Maybe the Imperial Guard or Orks will have one when they come out, but not Nids. If i'm wrong all the better for us.
Maybe a better way of putting it is we don't expect to see a Forge World model as a Lord of War in a codex. And since Tyranids don't have any plastic ones, we won't see one.
Orks and Imperial guard may do as they have plastic kits.
Well if 5 or so people order direct from GW, chances are 1 of them might get it early -- form a coalition and vow to bring knowledge to this thread 48-72 hours in advance!
personally i'm ordering though my LGS and getting my stuff at a discount.
catharsix wrote: I just had an idea for a nickname for the Haruspex that I hope will catch on:
The BARFOSPEX
Please use this much easier to remember and much more descriptive alternative moniker on these boards, in your games, and in any other situation that you want to refer to this model that looks quite good except for its awful barf-maw (also, use "barf-maw" to refer to whatever the heck GW has named the mouth-weapon thing!)
Spoiler:
Just say no to 'catchy' nicknames.
I dunno P, I like the idea of incorporating my scorn and derision directly into the nickname itself, so that I express that scorn and derision every time I refer to the offending model.
Hansisaf wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the regeneration head has half its face blown off? If it's the regeneration head, wouldn't it have regenerated?
I think the point is that it's had half its face blown off and is still alive...
It's not perfect, but I can't really think of a better way to show an ability to regenerate.
I'm picking my my White Dwarf in person in an hour or two. If i see anything in it that hasn't already been posted here and dissected I'll be sure to bring it up. Chances are though what we're really waiting for are actual codex leaks that might emerge next week.
Sweet... so, for those interested, MM will send you an updated price-list which includes upcoming pre-orders, as of now (apparently).
As I kind of hoped, I am essentially getting a free Carnifex Brood and still coming in cheaper than I would have if I ordered from GW tomorrow, directly.
Also, this means, it might not be the best list ever, but you can demonstratably build a legal 1850pt list (with some upgrades) for notably less than $400.
I know that sounds like a lot, but the supposedly "cheap" alternative of Warmachine, recently cost me $270 for a 50pt list, and that list gave me about a third of as many models on the table. Apples and oranges, yes (and I love them both), but I hate the argument that WH40k can't be played without a $1000 commitment.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well, for my "starter" army purchases, I've settled on the following...
I'll get the Codex, the Swarm box/bundle, an Exocrine/Haruspex box, a Tervigon/Terranorex box, and a Hive Tyrant (as per everyone's recommendations). I also own my aforementioned 28 or so Genestealers.
Definitely a good helping of stuff!
Though with the lower points i guess we'll all be getting something new! I'm just not sure what i want first yet as i don't want to fall into the grey army trap
I think when the WD drops, i'll throw GW an email and ask them what's the best way. I'm not settling for a codex being a week late on my doorstep, i want it now!!!!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Sweet... so, for those interested, MM will send you an updated price-list which includes upcoming pre-orders, as of now (apparently).
As I kind of hoped, I am essentially getting a free Carnifex Brood and still coming in cheaper than I would have if I ordered from GW tomorrow, directly.
Also, this means, it might not be the best list ever, but you can demonstratably build a legal 1850pt list (with some upgrades) for notably less than $400.
I know that sounds like a lot, but the supposedly "cheap" alternative of Warmachine, recently cost me $270 for a 50pt list, and that list gave me about a third of as many models on the table. Apples and oranges, yes (and I love them both), but I hate the argument that WH40k can't be played without a $1000 commitment.
I've done this type of math for the Wm/H nuts who claim the game is so much cheaper. They always start off so self-righteous, and finish with a, "Yeah...so...this is stupid to talk about."
At long, long last! This is glorious. Of course, now I need to buy a new codex, but who cares? A replacement has been long overdue.
Models wise:
+Plastic Tyrant Guard. PLASTIC. TYRANT. GUARD.
+Said plastic Tyrant Guard also look amazing.
+Plastic Hive Guard.
+Harpy finally gets a model.
+The ancient Tyranid Warrior box is getting recut.
+Keeps stylings and many parts from original Warrior kit.
+Includes Boneswords and parts for Prime on sprue.
+Harpy at last.
+2 big new gribblies.
+HOLY GAK EXOCRINE AND HARUSPEX
+Did I mention new codex?
-Plastic Hive Guard look a bit odd, though not terrible by any means (also plastic Hive Guard is too nice to complain about)
-Haruspex and Exocrine are a bit strange, Haruspex especially.
-Harpy looks...wonky (Though to be fair it could look a lot better in person- I thought the Centurions looked like crap until I actually held one).
-Warrior heavy weapons are too big, also the death knell of the classic heavy weapons.
I'd like carnifexes w/ st/cc to become more useful. I've got 2 built/primered ones from ebay (I had 3, but I chopped one up and remade it into a flyrant), that I got when I started out, but never painted since they never found a place in my lists.
Not liking these changes to the Elite section. Elite's are already overly crowded. Now with two new MC's in the slot, we could be hurting for space. Here's hoping for the +1 FOC slot rumor to be true!
On the other hand, I am loving the ability to take a MC in Elite. So conflicted!
It's pretty much spelled out that no, it's not returning.
Well, to be fair, that's been it's description for a long time now. So I wouldn't totally rule it out just yet, wait for the codex for final judgement.
It's pretty much spelled out that no, it's not returning.
Well, to be fair, that's been it's description for a long time now. So I wouldn't totally rule it out just yet, wait for the codex for final judgement.
