I have to say that the Haruspex looks a lot better in that 360, love that both it and the Exocrine are Elites. So we now have Monstrous Creatures in all slots!
So this is REALLY making me want to come out of my 40k hibernation. . . Want to see if the rule book is worth it yet though before I make that judgement. . .
The red terror is listed as included in the "predation" pack so if I was guessing I'd say it'll have it's own stats, but who knows.
Also, holy hell the new big monster prices seem a bit rapey. $80 harpy that you could pretty much make out of a carnifex and some wings, $73 exocrine . . . is it really using $16 more plastic than the tervigon?
Ol'Dirty wrote: The red terror is listed as included in the "predation" pack so if I was guessing I'd say it'll have it's own stats, but who knows.
Also, holy hell the new big monster prices seem a bit rapey. $80 harpy that you could pretty much make out of a carnifex and some wings, $73 exocrine . . . is it really using $16 more plastic than the tervigon?
Would you rather $105 for the Harpy and then $95 for the Haruspex/Exocrine?
Anyways, I'm excited to see some of these models for myself when they get here next Saturday. The Exocrine I like and probably can swap the head with something else.
On the one hand: so glad the new MCs aren't heavy support. Means good old fexes wont have competition. On the other hand, elites just became one very contested slot!
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
And ap2 on all instant death wounds
Ok, that is nasty. If we can have a way to make Tyranid Warriors a bit more durable, they are going to be amazing with this loadout. Also, Hive Tyrants with Bonesword & Lashwhip, with Scything Talons is going to be a very nice combat brute.
Really liking the new rules for Boneswords, gives them a bit of flavour, and isn't too overpowered as it is a 1 in 6 chance.
Yeah I prefer Heroic Killing Blow ( Instant Death on a 6 to wound) on Boneswords than the silly Ld check or die. Streamlines things nicely.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Likely re-roll 1's to hit like they are currently. That they give Genestealers +1 attack when combo'd with their Rending Claws explains their point increase, and gives them a reason to be taken on MC's and Warriors in addition to other melee bio morphs.
Exocrines are feared for their ability to deal death from afar.
GW, still blowing that smoke.
Start with just a codex, but I'm definitely eying the Swarm Box despite not really needing the gaunts. Just such a good value it's hard to pass up, and I can never have enough Fexes.
Edit: I have to believe Scything Talons will do something on their own, otherwise there is no reason to take the default Scything Talons / Deathspitters that come on Warriors, ever. The scything talons would be purely ornamental at that point. +1 attack per pair of melee biomorphs (so +1 for 1 set of scything, +2 for 2 sets) doesn't seem excessive to me, given how badly melee in general is gutted in 6th.
Edit: I have to believe Scything Talons will do something on their own, otherwise there is no reason to take the default Scything Talons / Deathspitters that come on Warriors, ever. The scything talons would be purely ornamental at that point. +1 attack per pair of melee biomorphs (so +1 for 1 set of scything, +2 for 2 sets) doesn't seem excessive to me, given how badly melee in general is gutted in 6th.
The little blurb specifically said that Horm's don't get an extra attack from their 1 set of Scything talons. So, Scything Talons are likely unchanged (giving re-roll 1's to hit) and have only changed in that they can combo with other melee biomorphs to give a bonus attack.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Psychic cards also imply that we still have access to the BRB powers.
They would also be ornamental on the hormagaunts used in the example in the BL preview.
I think this is just bringing Tyranids more into line with everyone else - their melee biomorphs are roughly equivalent to melee weapons in the other races, and they have actually short-circuited a huge set of rules arguments by saying a "pair" of scything talons only counts as one weapon - you need two pairs to get the bonus attack.
As the crushing claw is listed for no other infantry models...warriors especially...it's increasingly likely the tyrant guard are now mcs...I wouldn't doubt that hive guard are as well...
I fail at website navigation.
I want to preorder the eCodex from Black Library. I went to the site, added the Codex, created the account, and I'm being told I can't buy that product with that currency - it shows as £ instead of $. I can't figure out how to change it. Halp?
Edit: log out, see the currency selector. Log in, see the currency selector. It wasn't there before, I swear. Sigh.
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
That's assuming that you can stack rending claws and bonesword bonuses of course.
Naturally, that's how it currently stands...it could change...but I doubt it personally...scytals or Rends or boneswords or crushing claws...figuring out combat gets messy real fast.
I wouldn't worry...that a loadout as above might possibly cost 50-55 points.a model...not going to dominate every game...but a decent deathstar
pretre wrote: Nidmageddon for Rumor Mongers has started. Just off of the pre-releases:
Natfka
True 10
False 28
PT/V 2
Larry Vela aka Big Red from BOLS True 4
False 36
Stickmonkey
True 6
False 6
PT/V 4
Well I enjoy natfka for the speed and sheer quantity of information more than accuracy. Maybe he's got a tornado of rumors but the truth is always in there somewhere
ductvader wrote: Well I enjoy natfka for the speed and sheer quantity of information more than accuracy. Maybe he's got a tornado of rumors but the truth is always in there somewhere
Not to get too off track here, but Natfka only gets to the truth in the same way that a blind dartplayer gets to a bullseye. Volume of fire.
The problem with this is that he puts out so much crap that there is no way to know what's what. It makes him pretty useless as a source and only really good as a news aggregator from more reliable mongers.
Quite odd that there's stilll no GW model for the mycetic spore.
Totally gone then?
I cant believe it
I mean, it opens up so many options for the Tyranids.
In a way they could/would be as pod able as SMs. - maybe even more according to the fluff.
Im agog!
I'm still holding out hope that it's in the codex as a rule, i.e. this unit can purchase a mycetic spore and gains the Deep Strike rule. Up until last edition they were supposed to disintegrate on impact anyway.
Don't think anyone has pointed it out yet, but in the Harpy/Crone description on the GW, it says you get 3 spore mines and 4 tentaclids as well as the parts for the Harpy/Crone.
ductvader wrote: Well I enjoy natfka for the speed and sheer quantity of information more than accuracy. Maybe he's got a tornado of rumors but the truth is always in there somewhere
Not to get too off track here, but Natfka only gets to the truth in the same way that a blind dartplayer gets to a bullseye. Volume of fire.
The problem with this is that he puts out so much crap that there is no way to know what's what. It makes him pretty useless as a source and only really good as a news aggregator from more reliable mongers.
I expected more from you Pretre. How come you attacking Natfka as a rumour source? He doesn't give out rumours, he just collects them. So while it's a lot he gives, he NEVER takes credit for them.
ductvader wrote: Well I enjoy natfka for the speed and sheer quantity of information more than accuracy. Maybe he's got a tornado of rumors but the truth is always in there somewhere
Not to get too off track here, but Natfka only gets to the truth in the same way that a blind dartplayer gets to a bullseye. Volume of fire.
The problem with this is that he puts out so much crap that there is no way to know what's what. It makes him pretty useless as a source and only really good as a news aggregator from more reliable mongers.
I expected more from you Pretre. How come you attacking Natfka as a rumour source? He doesn't give out rumours, he just collects them. So while it's a lot he gives, he NEVER takes credit for them.
Lysenis wrote: I think we are getting off track. . . *watches the skies for a Mod. . . *
Hmmm so Warriors. . . What are the going opinions atm? Still not worth it or maybe worth the time?
In my opinion, it is still to be determined. If their weapon options are effective and they have good support from the other aspects of the book, they may be especially useful. Here's waiting to see what Synapse does. The heavy weapons may be especially good, making Warrior broods attractive to pack in the heavies.
Yeah, it's tough to call them this early (which is why I didn't order any of that kit yet). We've learned a couple things today, but rules-wise we're still pretty in the dark.
Lysenis wrote: I think we are getting off track. . . *watches the skies for a Mod. . . *
Hmmm so Warriors. . . What are the going opinions atm? Still not worth it or maybe worth the time?
In my opinion, it is still to be determined. If their weapon options are effective and they have good support from the other aspects of the book, they may be especially useful. Here's waiting to see what Synapse does. The heavy weapons may be especially good, making Warrior broods attractive to pack in the heavies.
Hey I started playing back when the 5th edition codex was released. If they get atleast an AP3 weapon OPTION that to me is a HUGE improvement. . . as long as it has about a 24" range. . .
Lysenis wrote: I think we are getting off track. . . *watches the skies for a Mod. . . *
Hmmm so Warriors. . . What are the going opinions atm? Still not worth it or maybe worth the time?
This is going to take some time to decide...on the one hand reduced point costs book wide means you can fit more mcs in a list with them...making more s8 fire necessary to deal with the book as a whole...and most armies right now are very light on s8+...
I think it's definitely viable...but like terminators...you have to build around them to a degree
The current issue is the infantry based meta though...if other forms of Tyranid lists shift metas into a more mechanized manner there will be a reduction in small arms fir as well and this also benefits warriors.
Lysenis wrote: I think we are getting off track. . . *watches the skies for a Mod. . . *
Hmmm so Warriors. . . What are the going opinions atm? Still not worth it or maybe worth the time?
This is going to take some time to decide...on the one hand reduced point costs book wide means you can fit more mcs in a list with them...making more s8 fire necessary to deal with the book as a whole...and most armies right now are very light on s8+...
I think it's definitely viable...but like terminators...you have to build around them to a degree
The current issue is the infantry based meta though...if other forms of Tyranid lists shift metas into a more mechanized manner there will be a reduction in small arms fir as well and this also benefits warriors.
In essence...time will tell.
Very nice wrap up on this. I think 'Nids will impact the meta to a point but depending on their shooting capabilities will effect their viability.
If Warriors get Skyfire as an option or other good uses as such I think they will be viable but will ALWAYS need that Venomthrope protection which hopefully those are IC as well or it could be a bad day. . .
Also I HOPE Spores are still ok! I LOVED dropping 20 gaunts in the back field and unloading 60 shots. . . or now a set of warriors. . .
Lysenis, it's not so much the shooting as the pure survivabilty, catalyst now affecting two units at once is huge...I have a feeling more and more people are going to need to invest in psychic effect markers like I have.
pretre wrote: Not to get too off track here, but Natfka only gets to the truth in the same way that a blind dartplayer gets to a bullseye. Volume of fire.
The problem with this is that he puts out so much crap that there is no way to know what's what. It makes him pretty useless as a source and only really good as a news aggregator from more reliable mongers.
I expected more from you Pretre. How come you attacking Natfka as a rumour source? He doesn't give out rumours, he just collects them. So while it's a lot he gives, he NEVER takes credit for them.
How come you are shooting the messenger?
Secret Natfka account spotted.
Not quite, but Davor, as I have said before. I have nothing against Natfka personally, but he is a rumor monger. He publishes rumors without sourcing, making him the source. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to pop over to the Ongoing Rumor Accuracy thread where we have debated it before and will continue to in the future.
Can't wait for the codex. A bit sad now. I ordered the limited edition codex, will have to wait till Monday or Tuesday now, unless they can ship same day on Friday.
Was planning for iPad interactive version as well, but that will have to wait till next pay day now. Argh. Can't wait.
Just curious, I see on the Canada and US site, they have a pic of the limited edition codex sold out, but not on the UK and Aussie site. Anyone know why is this? North American quotas of the Limited edition sold out?
McNinja wrote: I may be a little late to the game but... why is the Carnifex in the HQ slot?
Old One Eye is now a HQ choice, and the plastic Carnifex kit can make Old One Eye.
The old one eye model was showing there earlier as well though?!?!
Jes Bickham had a 3rd edition old One Eye model in the battle report vs tau last April. In this month's battle report he has replaced his model with one made from the carnifex kit, kitbashed with the open maw of a mawloc on the bottom of the jaw. So i'd say they're pushing for players to use the regen head to make an old one eye, rather than trying to sell the old metal model.
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
Where's this about needing 30 gants to unlock terv troops? I really hope that's not true.
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
Where's this about needing 30 gants to unlock terv troops? I really hope that's not true.
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
Where's this about needing 30 gants to unlock terv troops? I really hope that's not true.
I'm really glad it is true...tervigons are our biggest crutch...myself obviously included
Hope so, it'd really be a freaking point sink to have to take 60 gants to unlock 2 tervs rather than 20 like it used to be. Not to mention needing to paint even more of the freaking little things to cover that plus spawns.
Ol'Dirty wrote: Hope so, it'd really be a freaking point sink to have to take 60 gants to unlock 2 tervs rather than 20 like it used to be. Not to mention needing to paint even more of the freaking little things to cover that plus spawns.
Perhaps this is GW subtlety telling you to buy more paint and models!
Soooo many of the same gants though . . . . . I think I've painted something like 60 of the things and really don't want to have to paint another 60 more to keep using the tervs...
Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
Do we know what base the Haruspex / Exocrine is on?
I thought originally that it was on the large flyer base, but then when they showed it in the lineup against the other range of nid creatures, its base looked smaller. Is that the case?
WarOne wrote: Should it be concerning the 'gaunts now come in groups of 20?
Does this mean a minimum buy in for a squad is a 20 model unit?
The termagant armylist entry is printed (albeit tiny) in the White Dwarf - the unit composition is 10-30 termagants. You'll need a brood of 30 to unlock a tervigon as a troops choice, now, though.
Where's this about needing 30 gants to unlock terv troops? I really hope that's not true.
It's absolutely true. The army list entry in the white dwarf is small, but clearly legible.
"The scuttling swarm - for every termagant brood of 30 models included in your army, you can include 1 tervigon (pg 95) as a troops choice instead of an HQ choice".
It also bears mentioning termagants are 4 points each now, flesh borers are standard equipment still, and you can mix and match weapon symbiotes within the unit now.
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
The Tyranid swarm set, is actually a great way to get your brood going. If I was just starting, I would probably buy 2 of those.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Swarm Set looks like a great deal for sure! I just don't know if I'll be using the Hormagaunts if they really are that meh
Canadian prices are pretty disgusting for pretty much everything (what else is new?), but I'm sure I'll at least update to the new Codex sometime soon. Gonna have to wait for the moment though... gotta pay off the PC I just got... :S
Oh and the Term/Horm sets seem like a decent enough deal, ~$10 cheaper than the old sets plus more bitz.
I know I shouldn't be as it is par for the course but damn, double the price for the limited edition Codex, and at the rate their spamming them out, next year I'll need a whole new one!
Not sure they'll get double the price outta me on codex. But I'll be doing the models for sure!
Yay! The price of everything went up since last week! Not too badly, 3 Warriors up to $51 from $47, gaunt/gants I think lept to 44 from 33? Not sure, I didn't pay much attention to those last week, though I will look on my laptop tomorrow for last week versus this week price lists.
busby wrote: Yay! The price of everything went up since last week! Not too badly, 3 Warriors up to $51 from $47, gaunt/gants I think lept to 44 from 33? Not sure, I didn't pay much attention to those last week, though I will look on my laptop tomorrow for last week versus this week price lists.
Not totally uncalled for though. Warrior got a new sculpt with more bits and gants come in pack of 20 now.
Anyone know how many points are in the new swarm pack is give or take? Think it will be close to 1000? If that's the case lots of people should start with it!
chiefbigredman wrote: Anyone know how many points are in the new swarm pack is give or take? Think it will be close to 1000? If that's the case lots of people should start with it!
It depends if you took a whole bunch of upgrades or not.
We know that Hormas are 5 PPM and Termas are 4 PPM.
Speculation is that a base Carnifex is around 110-120 starting cost, with a buttload of upgrades available. Old One is also 220 pts. Garygoles are either 5-6 PPM, as well.
So, while not close to 1000 points, it's a good foundation to start from. If you do max out all kinds of upgrades, I'm sure it does come a lot closer to 1k points.
Thanks Sasori!
Kind of strange that it wouldn't be closer to 1K right away. I mean just for the price. But non of the battleforces are the same points wise anyways.
Was the old battleforce pretty good points wise?
I like tyranids but not sure about another horde army since my skaven aren't done either are my Eldar.
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
chiefbigredman wrote: Anyone know how many points are in the new swarm pack is give or take? Think it will be close to 1000? If that's the case lots of people should start with it!
Without upgrades, its roughly ~580.
With upgrades, it can go as high as 980, maybe even 1000 if you go all out on the fex or make him OOE.
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat." - BRB, page 51
We need to start freaking out about this!
J/K... mostly. Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
Quite odd that there's stilll no GW model for the mycetic spore.
Totally gone then? I cant believe it
I mean, it opens up so many options for the Tyranids. In a way they could/would be as pod able as SMs. - maybe even more according to the fluff.
Im agog!
I'm still holding out hope that it's in the codex as a rule, i.e. this unit can purchase a mycetic spore and gains the Deep Strike rule. Up until last edition they were supposed to disintegrate on impact anyway.
Hormagaunt / Term / Warrior / Genestealer pages have leaked, all of these had access to the spore in last edition and none had any mention of Mycetic Spore in their options. I guess our only chance is to hope they changed the rules to Spores no longer needing a model (as GW has said every unit in the codex has a model), as well as White Dwarf leaving out the transport upgrade options in the spoiler, which seems unlikely to say the least.
It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod. For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones. Between that news, the Tervigon troop nerf, no survivability buff to warriors, Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods, Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever, the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's. And forgive me if this doesn't excite me too much and that I felt Trygons were good enough options already and that the Anti-tank MC for Heavy Attack role was possibly one of the only aspects of the codex that didn't need a serious fixing (along with the HQ slot which also seems to be the other place all the buffs and added flexibility are going). I liked to mix things up a little bit in between the MC spam by dropping Zoeys, Doom's and 20 man Devilgaunt Squads in with Deepstriking pods for hyper aggressive infantry floods. I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about, as far as I can tell it is that we have a Crone coming (who we still know very little about), and that we can now patch in a possibly more powerful Flying Circus build that MAY not completely suck because we have Crone's to replace Harpys? But I guess in 2014 it's all about packing as many of biggest and baddest monstrous creatures or fliers as possible and doing both at once seems to be what the monkeys are happy with.
All I've really seen in this thread is people drooling over big new bug casts and slight updates to last editions models without really considering the actual gameplay info we are being given. If anything it looks like Nid's are going to be as monobuild as ever, with our only viable troop being an autotake and costing 20 termagaunts more (meaning less freedom with points throughout the rest of the list), and one of our most viable elites being replaced with the Exocrine (who seems inferior to a 3 man squad of Hive Guard with the info we have), the Haruspex which just sounds gimmicky (but may go on to be absolutely amazing depending on the points cost and is the one model I'm holding out hope for), and thats not to mention the massive Zoanthrope nerf in this slot as well. For the fast attack slot now have another FMC which sounds like it is going to seriously completely outclass EVERYTHING else in the slot (raveners, shrikes, skyslasher swarms & harpys if you were wondering what that includes - yes it's easy to forget the random ass crappy units we have in FA) EXCEPT for maybe Gargoyles who will still have their niche, which is ironically, mostly just shielding the other FMC's for a turn (sound like a mono build to anyone ?) The only real choices seem to be whether to go Fex's or Trygon in the Heavy slot, a dilemna that I think will not come up often depending on the Crone's antitank ability, which I suspect will be quite large considering it's meant to be an anti-flier, as well as packing missiles and the S8 vektor strike. I think anyone hoping for a lot of flexibility with builds and units from the new codex is going to be disappointed. There is no way to make swarm army viable, at best it's going to be the same choice between walking MC's (if the new elite's are good), or Flying MC's with fast infantry support / Gargoyle shields. At worst it's just going to be spam fliers and put Tervigon's in the troop slot. Which really doesn't entice me and bringing that army along won't go down well in my local group.
*disclaimer: all the opinions in my post are referring to what we know already and thus the info we do have to go on. For example, hopes that Warriors will still get EW through synapse or that Hormagaunts can run and attack (hopes that I share), have not been included as relevant in this post, because at the end of the day wishlisting isn't relevant to anything*
For mathhammer people: If the new boneswords cause ID on a to-wound roll of 6 instead of needing a leadership test for each wound like before, is that overall better, worse, or the same?
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: For mathhammer people: If the new boneswords cause ID on a to-wound roll of 6 instead of needing a leadership test for each wound like before, is that overall better, worse, or the same?
Simple is better. That and you have multible chances now to ID.
rollawaythestone wrote: Well, against multi-wound models (where it matters), which typically have LD 9 or 10, this is a buff, I believe.
Even vs dual boneswords where you took the LD test on 3D6?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I'm conflicted that both the Haruspex and Exocrine are apparently Elites choices. On the one hand, this means less competitions for the Heavy support choices, which are either already good (Trygon, Biovore to a lesser degree) or from all rumors about to get very good (Carnifex, Tyrannofex).
On the other hand, the already crowded and full of good units Elites sections just got even MORE crowded. If Hive Guard, Venomthopes and Zoanthropes remain viable, or even Auto-take in the case of HG (to say nothing of the Pyrovore and Lictors finally, maybe, hopefully becoming useful!) then I really don't see the new MCs being used much, even if they have great rules.
I can only hope at least that the rumors about Nids being able to take extra FoC slots is true...
rollawaythestone wrote: Well, against multi-wound models (where it matters), which typically have LD 9 or 10, this is a buff, I believe.
Even vs dual boneswords where you took the LD test on 3D6?
Dual boneswords from the old dex are better, obviously, than the Heroic Killing Blow version in the new dex. However, we don't actually know how dual boneswords work in the current dex. They may not even be an option.
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat." - BRB, page 51
We need to start freaking out about this!
J/K... mostly. Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
Good catch. This is certainly cause for some suspense until we see the actual book.
I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.
so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.
I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.
rollawaythestone wrote: Well, against multi-wound models (where it matters), which typically have LD 9 or 10, this is a buff, I believe.
Even vs dual boneswords where you took the LD test on 3D6?
Dual boneswords from the old dex are better, obviously, than the Heroic Killing Blow version in the new dex. However, we don't actually know how dual boneswords work in the current dex. They may not even be an option.
The preview pics of the new Warrior box comes with one with 2 Boneswords equipped.
BeeCee wrote: I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.
so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.
I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.
Don't go talking all logical now. People are supposed to follow the internet groupthink and assume everything is bad if it doesn't have 1st turn charge with Assault Grenades at Initiative 9 and an armor save of 2+++/1+++++++ Furious Charge, poison, rending and FNP for 2 points apiece.
I also don't get why people are saying they still want to buy (with points) the Mycetic Spore for Deep Striking even if there won't be a model required. Why then would you need to buy a Spore and not just pay points for a unit to have Deep Strike? The Spore doesn't even need to be a part of the equation.
And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.
I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.
but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.
And you can mix and match weapons in Termagant broods now, so you can for example add 10 Devourers to the brood and let the other 20 be bullet catchers for your investment.
Ol'Dirty wrote: Soooo many of the same gants though . . . . . I think I've painted something like 60 of the things and really don't want to have to paint another 60 more to keep using the tervs...
Hopefully the book is good enough that you won't need to play that many Tervigons anymore. That was the problem: it was the only worthwhile unit in the damn codex. At least the only one that consistently performed.
The army shouldn't rely on them. I thought it was rather beardy that it only took 10 to make them Troops before. It was a stupid cheesy min/max, yet easy to disrupt crutch - if that all makes sense.
Besides, Tervigons are still available in HQ. Chances are, we will have a number of different ways to play the army this time, so just be flexible and give a lot of different things a shot.
BeeCee wrote: And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.
I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.
but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.
Or we just scuttle them around behind the 43 MC's we can field in every slot of the FO chart now.
In all the excitement I forgot to mention how the Tyrant Guard's Lash Whip looks like a weird sex toy, and how both the Harpy and the Crone have weird suggestive stuff going on in their groin areas.
Which is totally fine by me. I've been getting ****ed by Vendettas for nearly five years now, and I can't really think of a more satisfying way to welcome my IG opponent into the 6th edition Tyranids lifestyle than by returning the favour.
I've not been following these rumours very closely but I've just seen that the exocrine and it's hungry buddy are elites. I'm feeling a list like this for fun
Tyrant or tervigon as hq, 2 min troop choices, and then a mixture of exocrines, harpies/crones, and trygon sand carnifexs'. What fun! Hehe
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
Shouldn't we wait for the codex to give advice?
Hence what I said about the codex not being out yet =P was just asking from what we know about the new rules from leaks and what may be still good even with a new codex
BeeCee wrote: I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.
so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.
I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.
Don't go talking all logical now. People are supposed to follow the internet groupthink and assume everything is bad if it doesn't have 1st turn charge with Assault Grenades at Initiative 9 and an armor save of 2+++/1+++++++ Furious Charge, poison, rending and FNP for 2 points apiece.
Yes, this is why Hormagaunts aren't popular. No matter how good they get we will always hate em because they don't have all that ridiculous crap you just mentioned. The Hormagants are an amazing troop choice, unfortunately we are just never satisfied with them. As you said, the entire fanbase absolutely hates competitive logic, right ?
Hmmm or maybe, just maybe, it's because you have just taken a troop that costs MORE points per naked model than a Termagant squad, to lose the str4 ap5 RANGED attack in favour of a MELEE ranged str3 attack, not unlocking Tervigons as troop choices. Then you can factor in the almost mandatory upgrade costs.
Oh wow I almost forgot, Horm's get to run up to 3" more. But hey, Termagants get to shoot 12. They also unlock (but do not force you to purchase) your undeniably best troop in the game, the Tervigon. Even without the Terv you can still grab AG+TS for half the price that it costs Hormagants to take them. But why would you? You wouldn't, because Termies are a unit that does not even require these upgrades, but on Hormagants they are pretty much an into include. And any points you do want to spend upgrading Termis, well they have an even better option, you can give them all Devourers and pay 2 ppm less than a Hormagaunt squad with both upgrades, except you have as many attacks per shooting phase as they have on the charge. And at the same strength. And at 18" range. And gives them a -1 on morale checks. And then you can charge afterwards. And you still have a cheap as chips to buy both upgrades if you took a Tervigon, 20 points for a bubble of TS+AG which affects the entirety of all Termagant units/spawns around it, as opposed to paying 120 points for AG+TS on a 30 man Hormagaunt squad. Said Tervigon is also a scoring unit just by picking Termagants as your troop choice. These are the bonuses that you trade away for adding 3" run speed to a single dice roll (as opposed to taking the highest of 3). Hormagaunts are definitely our second best choice, but if there was ever a unit that is completely outclassed in every possible manner.....
But forget all those actual statistics, they're probably not important. That's just the "groupthink" trying to manipulate your mind with their lies and foolish thoughts of viable troop options. You go out there and have fun being an individual, 3" faster each turn.
The most interesting part of the pre-orders going up is by far the fact that the Haruspex/Exocrine is confirmed in the Elite slot. Here's hoping they come with some pretty nifty rules because it'd give me great pleasure to take new models over the auto-take Hive Guard I've been using since what feels like the dawn of time. It'd be nice to have another viable option in the Elite slot for once! We'll have to wait and see whether their rules and points cost vs the Hive Guard make them worth taking at all though...
brassangel wrote: I also don't get why people are saying they still want to buy (with points) the Mycetic Spore for Deep Striking even if there won't be a model required. Why then would you need to buy a Spore and not just pay points for a unit to have Deep Strike? The Spore doesn't even need to be a part of the equation.
Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?
Or how bout the fact that the spore doubles your accuracy of the deep strike, critical for a lot of the units it was used in conjunction with? And it also takes away the risk of a deep strike mishap.
TERRIBLY CHALLENGING THING FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND I KNOW, but maybe just stop for a second and think about why people might still want to keep this unit in the codex before making such an ignorant statement suggesting that people shouldn't be unhappy that our options are being taken away from us, for no other reason than GW didn't think the models would sell as well as a new super flying monstrous uber dragon.
Also add to all this the fact that people have spent time money and effort, converting building painting and acquiring their own models to represent the units, on GW's encouragement to do so. You really don't have a foot to stand on here.
BeeCee wrote: And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.
I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.
but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.
Or we just scuttle them around behind the 43 MC's we can field in every slot of the FO chart now.
Now here's something I can't understand. Why do people think with this mentality, that because there is more options for different MC's to choose, that it will mean there is more MC's on the field. WE HAVE A POINTS LIMIT. The monobuild was already literally nothing but Monstrous Creatures + 3man HG or Zoanthrope squads (which block equal or more vision than a MC), and the default 2x squads of 10 naked termagant. Not devil gaunts. To have more MC's on the field we have to be able to take out non-monstrous units to do this. But now we have to take triple as much as infantry per Tervigon. What has changed to make you think we will be able to take Devourers on our Termagaunts and hide them with so much more ease than before? Especially since there is triple as many of them now? What on earth makes you think that more FOC options means there is going to be more room for monstrous creatures? We might be able to pack 1 or 2 more in by using the cheap cost of Carnifexes to achieve this, but just have new big bugs in the dex or looking pretty on the side of the table does not actually make your 1500 pt army have extra MC's in it, believe it or not.
IMO actually not too bad. Harpy is hugely overpriced but so are all flyers from other armies. The Swarm looks like a decent way to start a Tyranid horde army, new Gaunt boxes are marginally cheaper per model than the old ones, and Carnifex Brood also provides small saving.
@Shuppet - Have an exalt for practically the same way of thinking as me I have a tyranid army which has been shelved not because of its lack of power, but because it's the same build over and over. And from what we can glean from the spoilers we've been given - that won't change much. GW just added new components to the monobuild which is "statistically best". It just means I'll be using one less tervigon and more crones and haruspices / exocrines / carnifices.
And here I was hoping that a new codex will bring a Tau level of customisable goodness. My final judgment on the dex will of course be made when the dex arrives, but heck if I'm not a bit disappointed by the initial waves its been making.
brassangel wrote: I also don't get why people are saying they still want to buy (with points) the Mycetic Spore for Deep Striking even if there won't be a model required. Why then would you need to buy a Spore and not just pay points for a unit to have Deep Strike? The Spore doesn't even need to be a part of the equation.
Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?
Or how bout the fact that the spore doubles your accuracy of the deep strike, critical for a lot of the units it was used in conjunction with? And it also takes away the risk of a deep strike mishap.
TERRIBLY CHALLENGING THING FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND I KNOW, but maybe just stop for a second and think about why people might still want to keep this unit in the codex before making such an ignorant statement suggesting that people shouldn't be unhappy that our options are being taken away from us, for no other reason than GW didn't think the models would sell as well as a new super flying monstrous uber dragon.
Also add to all this the fact that people have spent time money and effort, converting building painting and acquiring their own models to represent the units, on GW's encouragement to do so. You really don't have a foot to stand on here.
BeeCee wrote: And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.
I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.
but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.
Or we just scuttle them around behind the 43 MC's we can field in every slot of the FO chart now.
Now here's something I can't understand. Why do people think with this mentality, that because there is more options for different MC's to choose, that it will mean there is more MC's on the field. WE HAVE A POINTS LIMIT. The monobuild was already literally nothing but Monstrous Creatures + 3man HG or Zoanthrope squads (which block equal or more vision than a MC), and the default 2x squads of 10 naked termagant. Not devil gaunts. To have more MC's on the field we have to be able to take out non-monstrous units to do this. But now we have to take triple as much as infantry per Tervigon. What has changed to make you think we will be able to take Devourers on our Termagaunts and hide them with so much more ease than before? Especially since there is triple as many of them now? What on earth makes you think that more FOC options means there is going to be more room for monstrous creatures? We might be able to pack 1 or 2 more in by using the cheap cost of Carnifexes to achieve this, but just have new big bugs in the dex or looking pretty on the side of the table does not actually make your 1500 pt army have extra MC's in it, believe it or not.
Maybe he's referring to the fact that almost every MC got cheaper, some significantly so, in fact the only one I can think of that didn't get a points reduction of at least 10pts is the Tervigon, which received a well-deserved points increase.
That and the fact that Termagants and Hormagaunts got cheaper by a point each too. My 1500pt list now has ~240pts spare, enough for (according to the points in the WD) two more barebones Carnifexes, or an Exocrine, or a Hive Crone plus change etc etc etc.
Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?
.
What Shuppet said.
We have lost half our army - zoeys, our doom, the dakkafexes, the occasional devilgants, all of them in mycetic spores.
We'll still have fun, hopefully convert to a flying circus, maybe with a couple Crones filling in all the gaps, and there might well be some great other options which will be revealed with the full codex. But convincing ourselves this is all Great NEws right now, when there is actually no Great News apart from some cool new models, is deluding yourself.
AS I said, we're pretty competitive rather than super-competive, and will have fun trying out new builds, but I'd rather see reality for what it is.
Farewell. You served us well and we will miss you.
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
Shouldn't we wait for the codex to give advice?
Hence what I said about the codex not being out yet =P was just asking from what we know about the new rules from leaks and what may be still good even with a new codex
Please ask that in the discussion forum. It's not news or rumors.
stonehorse wrote:Anyone else think that a Bonesword & Lashwhip will count as a set of paired weapons?
Would be useful on Hive Tyrants to help get an extra attack if they take Scything Talons.
I can't see why it wouldn't, LS & BS as a pair are the norm for a Hive Tyrant. In fact it would be quite disappointing if they didn't get the additional atk. 4 atks just doesn't seem like enough sometimes.
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat." - BRB, page 51
We need to start freaking out about this!
J/K... mostly. Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
I thought we were exempt from that rule already? Scything Talons + Rending Claws? New codex, new rules i know.
Hopefully it doesn't mean Warriors need to take 2 sets of Rending Claws to get +1 atk and rending.
brassangel wrote:I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.
so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.
I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.
I agree. Even if your enemy knows Hormagaunts aren't that scary as standard, 30 of them moving 12" a turn towards them always distracts my opponent, regardless of their thinking. While they do often end up useless for me (killing stuff wise), i always take them, because they're fun and anything that helps them in the 6th codex is a bonus to me. 3x20 is what i'll be doing too.
ergotoxin wrote:Here's some bad news for all Ripper lovers... The new Warrior set doesn't contain any.
Good.
Joking of course. But i can't help but feel i have to build the things if they are sat there.
[edit]
Forgot to ask:
What was the info/ rumours on different Hive Fleets? Was that proven wrong, ignored etc?
That could hold some serious unit changers, maybe each Hive Fleet will become notorious for something with some further fluff.
It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.
It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out?
Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.
For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.
This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.
And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.
A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.
Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods
We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?
This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.
Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever
How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on:
a) What the standard biomorphs do
b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them
c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there
This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.
You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.
the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's
... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?
I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about
I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.
It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.
It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out?
Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.
For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.
This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.
And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.
A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.
Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods
We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?
This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.
Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever
How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on:
a) What the standard biomorphs do
b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them
c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there
This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.
You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.
the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's
... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?
I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about
I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.
Have an exalt. This is my standpoint. Stop comparing and look at it as a new codex.
It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out
You say that, but the Hobbit Legolas and Tauriel minis have been released in plastic. Albeit at £15 for an elf on foot... Still, the potential is there.
It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.
It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out? Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.
For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.
This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.
And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.
A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.
Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods
We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?
This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.
Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever
How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on: a) What the standard biomorphs do b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there
This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.
You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.
... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?
I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about
I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.
Taking what I said out of context makes for an EXTREMELY weak argument.
Yes Tervigon's were undercosted, nowhere did I say that they weren't, I too agree they needed a points increase. Just like Hormagaunts, Warriors and Stealers all needed fixing. But to our knowledge, the only real change to any of these units is a Tervigon nerf. This is not good news. All 4 being balanced would be great news. And as you said it could still happen. But it hasn't happened yet. The only news we have is the Tervigon nerf. This is the news we are responding to, not the wishlisting for buffs to the unplayable units. And on it's own, this is bad news because our one viable troop now takes up even more points and leaves even less freedom for the rest of the FOC. So my question to you is, why did you split up my sentence, and skip half of it in your quotes to try give the impression I was saying something completely irrelevant to my actual point? Completely twisting up what I said is a pretty transparent way of trying to counter a valid point without actually having any factual information behind your argument. Because I clearly said that between MANY different reasons, of which I listed, that we are losing options, not that our codex isn't improving competitively or that Tervigon's were underpriced. Nobody is saying that there is no hope, nids are nerfed, etc. In fact we are likely to be more competitive than ever, l33t flyer spam hurrdurr. But just as monobuild as ever.
On the subject of Zoanthropes, we have had multiple rumours of them having to roll for the powers, we can realistically expect this (unlike Genestealers being able to attack turn of entry and Hormagaunts being able to run and attack or other such fixes) but this alone isn't enough for me to write them off though, anything could happen there. But the fact is, even if they don't have have to roll, they have still been nerfed, because they no longer have their pod. A point of mine that once again I notice you skipped over and tried to act like I was basing my entire argument on shady rumours, which are irrelevant anyway.
And forgive me, but I don't view 10 points of the price a Venomthrope a SERIOUS improvement to the strength of the codex . Nor do I consider 1 point off per Termagant, but needing to take triple as many for Tervigon troops a serious improvement to that unit either. But regardless to that. buffs to the units we already take is really irrelevant to the point I was clearly making about mono-lists - 30 points or whatever it was off the Flyrant is brilliant. Absolutely. But this isn't improving the dex's flexibility at all. It's just cementing a unit that most already take max of per armylist already. That isn't adding new options. However, the pointcost drop on the carnifex is giving us Fexes back. This is great news, we can possibly use our Heavys for killing tanks, taking pressure off the elite slot, allowing other units that HG to be taken - if you so choose to take them. This is flexibility. This is news to be excited about. That is why I said
the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's
Now tell me some more great news. That further improves the flexibility of our codex, and explain how so (eg just saying "50 points off T-fex duh" does not do this, as it just fills a very similar Carnifex except costs more points to be a bit more unfocused. This does not add any further flexibility to the codex that the Carnifex points drop doesn't already do). I'll make it easy for you, there isn't much.
Stop telling me how Hormagaunts and Genestealers could still be great because of all the things that they could still recieve, when the news that we have so far is that they are more or less exactly the same, with the same flaws, hence just as trash. Anything COULD happen with them. But so far nothing has. Note: I recall specifically adding things like "going off what we know at this point in time" (paraphrasing). We are talking about the response to the things we do know, such as the Tervigon nerf and units being taken out of the codex. THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS, wishlisting for a bunch of other random crap doesn't change this fact. In fact, you also deliberately left this out of your post
SHUPPET wrote: *disclaimer: all the opinions in my post are referring to what we know already and thus the info we do have to go on. For example, hopes that Warriors will still get EW through synapse or that Hormagaunts can run and attack (hopes that I share), have not been included as relevant in this post, because at the end of the day wishlisting isn't relevant to anything*
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the bit about "cleaning up the badly costed units added in 5th" is one of the most facepalm inducing things I have read this entire thread. So we clean them up by blasting them out of the dex with a raygun? This is the correct resolution to an unbalanced unit? Why not just balance the point costs? And this comment by you is actually your argument for justifying the eradication of the SERIOUS addition to build flexibility added by Spores??? And the removal of having the option of a Doom, a unit actually good enough to occassionaly be able to justify taking in the elite slot over a HG brood? I said they took the lazy option, how is this not the lazy option???? This is just dumbfounding that you actually believe differently, although part of me while reading your posts strongly suspects you just wanted to argue against me for not being all aboard the "hooray for a new codex of monstrous creature spam!" train
Man....after all of these pictures I'm giving serious thought to starting a Tyranid force to balance out my Ultramarines.
What are people's thoughts on the Exocrine's cannon? A BFG on a big bug sounds like fun to me, but not if it isn't anywhere near worth taking.
The cheapness of the gaunts also has me a bit excited. I'm thinking the Swarm + Swarmlord + Exocrine would be a good start to a new army. Do we have any rumors at all on if there are any changes coming to the Swarmlord?
Red Corsair wrote: Was deathleaper always in the HQ section on the GW site?
No, that's a change. An exciting one too, using a deathleaper as HQ could mean a totally stealer-shock style army (with lictors as elites). Might not be tournament winning but it'd be a different build.
Red Corsair wrote: Was deathleaper always in the HQ section on the GW site?
No, that's a change. An exciting one too, using a deathleaper as HQ could mean a totally stealer-shock style army (with lictors as elites). Might not be tournament winning but it'd be a different build.
I thought that was different. I don't play nids so it was probably easier to see with a level head
I would imagine your right! That could make for a really neat list!
Eldercaveman wrote: Yeah can't wait to see what they've done with him this edition, I'm hoping he has some serious psychological warfare going on.
Also did the Harpy or Crone ever take a grounding check in that battle report?
It was never mentioned, either because the tau players were too busy shooting the ground units, or perhaps they have an immunity to grounding...
If you look though the pictures of the batrep, the turn that the hive fleet Behemoth crone showed up she vector struck farsight's unit (in the front of the nid's DZ) and ended up nearly at half-table (they were playing a 4x8, hammer and anvil deployment). While that is very VERY light on facts, i have a FEELING that the Harpy and the Crone will have a movement of 18"-36" when they swoop, unlike standard FMCs.
James811 wrote: I think we should stop this thread until there are actually some new news or rumours. Like a leak of the codex haha
Really. I'm thinking this thread is pretty much over. Now it's degenerated into lots of wishlisting and referring to obscure leaked pics not posted here.
tetrisphreak wrote: My Mega Bloks Dragon Universe eggs, while no longer drop spores, will make good LOS blocking terrain for my home table.
At $10 per spore, i'm not too upset over it, though i can see why people who spent $40 to $50 per spod are definitely miffed over losing the things.
Meh it's a bummer but thats the risk that comes with buying GW minatures, its not different to me buying 6 carnifexes for this edition, just to have them go back to overpriced basura the codex after.
The miffing for me (only speaking for myself, I'm sure others are downright pissed about the time spent on their modelling being wasted) is that we just had a transport unit that added so many playstyle options to different units (and was literally the only reason some of them worked at all) pulled out of the dex for no apparent reason - other than just to satisfy the "every unit with rules will have a model" promise. This is extremely disappointing and a solid loss for anyone who enjoyed doing different things than maining a monobuild.
tetrisphreak wrote: My Mega Bloks Dragon Universe eggs, while no longer drop spores, will make good LOS blocking terrain for my home table.
At $10 per spore, i'm not too upset over it, though i can see why people who spent $40 to $50 per spod are definitely miffed over losing the things.
Meh it's a bummer but thats the risk that comes with buying GW minatures, its not different to me buying 6 carnifexes for this edition, just to have them go back to overpriced basura the codex after.
This is rare. GW invalidates very few models. In the limited scope of the Internet RAAAAGE era, however, I guess they have killed off a lot. Talk to a Sqauts or Zoats player.
It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
Eldercaveman wrote: Yeah can't wait to see what they've done with him this edition, I'm hoping he has some serious psychological warfare going on.
Also did the Harpy or Crone ever take a grounding check in that battle report?
It was never mentioned, either because the tau players were too busy shooting the ground units, or perhaps they have an immunity to grounding...
If you look though the pictures of the batrep, the turn that the hive fleet Behemoth crone showed up she vector struck farsight's unit (in the front of the nid's DZ) and ended up nearly at half-table (they were playing a 4x8, hammer and anvil deployment). While that is very VERY light on facts, i have a FEELING that the Harpy and the Crone will have a movement of 18"-36" when they swoop, unlike standard FMCs.
BeeCee wrote: It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
You are somewhat right, there is always likely going to be something the internet deems as "the best build". But I think the worry is having a dex full of useless units with only a few playables. E.G. in 5E, building competitively what troops are you going to take other than Termagants? What fast attack would you take other than Gargoyles? What Heavy would you take other than Trygons? It's not even that the units used for the main build were amazingly great (altho some are) - its that almost every other option generally ranks somewhere between below average and absolutely useless. I really hate writing off my favorite army's current dex like this, we had some really good units but we were really forced into playing a certain build or playing with bad models, hence the term monobuild. At the same point, with the new dex coming if we have a bunch of unbalanced units, eg the prediction of really powerful crones and flyrants, and a bunch of really underpowered units, eg the rest of the fast attack slots, or the Exocrine just turns out to be more or less a clone of a HG brood, or all our useless troop choices get no buff, we are likely to see a monobuild again.
BeeCee wrote: It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
And codexes with one and only build are boring. For our group, we seem to think GW is trying to make more units at least usable. Before 6e, no one even looked at Chaos Spawn, now people use them.
Build a bridge and get over it. double flyrant and double tervigon build is now going to give way to actual builds requiring *gasp* imagination and trial-and-error.
BeeCee wrote: It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
And codexes with one and only build are boring. For our group, we seem to think GW is trying to make more units at least usable. Before 6e, no one even looked at Chaos Spawn, now people use them.
Build a bridge and get over it. double flyrant and double tervigon build is now going to give way to actual builds requiring *gasp* imagination and trial-and-error.
I've found outside of the most competitive enviroments, the 6E codexes have been much more forgiving in allowing you to put down the models you like and have a playable army.
BeeCee wrote: It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
And codexes with one and only build are boring. For our group, we seem to think GW is trying to make more units at least usable. Before 6e, no one even looked at Chaos Spawn, now people use them.
Build a bridge and get over it. double flyrant and double tervigon build is now going to give way to actual builds requiring *gasp* imagination and trial-and-error.
How so ? Because with the info we have it is actually looking to me like its going to be double flyrant, double tervigon and triple crone now. Requiring even less imagination. They've made the Flyrant cheaper now, the Terv is still hands down the best troop choice, so they are both still very unlikely to leave their staple positions, and rather than the only variations you saw before being the fight for elite slots between HG, Zoanthropes and Doom, the anti-tank may now be fully covered by Crones launching missiles, facecannon and S8 vektor strikes all across the board. Meaning the most unimaginative monobuild yet. I'd really like to see what you just mentioned happen tho, I just pray GW pulls it off, by maybe giving the other troops the tools they need to compete somewhere in the army rules. Because so far we've seen their statlines and from what we know of their rules they have been given nothing :(
captainbirdbum wrote: So the New termagants do not come with any new parts? It's been changed on website to include 21 devourers. It no longer says strangleweb.
Both the old and the new direct order box have about 14 pieces per model (though I can't remember how many rippers you get in the old box). This leads me to believe that they just added two more sprues of 4 termagants into the new box so you could make the 20, and everything else staying the same. We will need to see an unboxing before the we can rule what's included though, but seeing how the old box is keeping the current artwork I would venture that the sprues are staying the same, you just get more of them.
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
I bought almost an identical starting army, and if I might say, if money allows, ditch the Horma/Terma broods and buy a Swarm Bundle. The value there is insane, and it essentially helped me decide to finally start 'Nid. If you buy it online discounted, its $130 for MORE than a full brood of both troops you were planning to buy anyway, a Fex which can be the third member of your Carnifex Brood, and some other fun bits. If you end up going for a Tervigon at some point, as many do, you'll probably appreciate the bonus Gants models immediately.
I am pleasantly surprised to see that the eBook Codex is £22 and the iBook EE version £35. Much more reasonable pricing and definitely nudged me into going digital this time.
Altruizine wrote: Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
I found one bit of explanation in the images over at Black Library about the new Codex:
"Designer's Note: Tyranid Melee weapons come as pairs. For game purposes, each pair is treated as a single Melee weapon. This means that Tyranid Models must fight with two pairs of any Tyranid Melee weapons to gain a bonus Attack in close combat for fighting with two weapons. For example, a Hormagaunt armed with a single pair of scything talons does not gain a bonus Attack, but a Ravener with two pairs of scything talons, or a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons, does." - Taken from Black library excerpts of new codex http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Codex-Tyranids.html
I feel this is a bit harsh on the poor Hormagaunt. An Ork boy gets to start off with A2 and get a bonus for two different weapons but our poor Hormies get that old 'already figured into your profile' line.
That page also has Bone Swords as AP3 which is a shame for the Prime if he can't get anything better. Speaking of which I wonder how the LW/BS combo will work if you also have RC or STs? Hopefully they are thinking ahead and providing similar Designer's notes.
This is rare. GW invalidates very few models. In the limited scope of the Internet RAAAAGE era, however, I guess they have killed off a lot. Talk to a Sqauts or Zoats player.
As a Zoat player, I didn't let GW invalidate my Zoat models. I use them as Hive Guard (as a bonus, I never had to deal with failcast).
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: The pre-orders are only hours old, the ink's barely dry on the new codex, and already, people are disappointed with the new Tyranid army builds.
C'mon dakka, you're better than this.
Can I remind people it's a fun hobby of painting and gaming. If you get beat, you get beat.
you must be new here...
/sarcasm (I marked it, so leave me.alone)
If GW were to make a "competitive", "viable" game, over half of Dakka would die from exploding heads, shocked because they have nothing better to do than complain. I am looking forward to a new.codex. Yes some stuff went away, but hopefully some stuff I wanted to do in the old book will be feasible again!
Both the WD list and the GW website has had errors with this Tyranid release (Hierodules as HS and full set of stranglewebs for termagants, respectively), so it's anyone's guess what that means.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I remind people it's a fun hobby of painting and gaming. If you get beat, you get beat.
And getting beaten can be fun.
Or at least it can in other games. I have not played 40k for a dog's age. But I recently lost a game of X-Wing and that was a ton of fun, a real nail biter as it came down to one-on-one space jousting.
Maybe losing in 40k is no longer fun in this kind of way? If so, no on can really blame it on the new Nids dex.
In any case, I seriously doubt this book only contains lists that can only lose. That's down to the players. Plus the new models look neat.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: The pre-orders are only hours old, the ink's barely dry on the new codex, and already, people are disappointed with the new Tyranid army builds.
C'mon dakka, you're better than this.
Can I remind people it's a fun hobby of painting and gaming. If you get beat, you get beat.
you must be new here...
/sarcasm (I marked it, so leave me.alone)
If GW were to make a "competitive", "viable" game, over half of Dakka would die from exploding heads, shocked because they have nothing better to do than complain. I am looking forward to a new.codex. Yes some stuff went away, but hopefully some stuff I wanted to do in the old book will be feasible again!
Ah ad-hominem and straw man arguments, always the best.
BeeCee wrote: It definitely feels that the Spore was removed to spite the Chapterhouses of the world.
Hopefully that deep strike option will still exist for a large number of those units. But one of the big boons of the spore was also the LoS blocking you could use for some of your guys when they landed. We know from looking at the troops choice entry that only the rippers seem to have it now.
But I would say the spore was part of the monobuild at least when it came to DoM and the devilgaunt bomb.
No matter how many options we have in any codex at a competitive level doesn't it almost always end up being pretty close to a monobuild?
And codexes with one and only build are boring. For our group, we seem to think GW is trying to make more units at least usable. Before 6e, no one even looked at Chaos Spawn, now people use them.
Build a bridge and get over it. double flyrant and double tervigon build is now going to give way to actual builds requiring *gasp* imagination and trial-and-error.
Solo, I'm not complaining about anything at this point so your build a bridge comment really wasn't necessary. With the state of the Tyranids now, it can only look up in terms of variety. Nowhere did I mention anything about the double flyrant double tervigon build. A few pages back I was touting the hormagaunt changes...
I was merely saying that I had empathy for those who had the 4 spore pod list, especially if they put a ton of time in to creating it. It is always a bummer if an army's play style changes dramatically and one really enjoys that play style. Sure the spore pod heads of the world could play space marines but I would venture to say it was a combination of the bugs and the spore pods not just the spore pods themselves.
what would actually be amazing is if we could have a discussion without comments like that. Of course people are going to be stressed with a lot of changes, that's part of life in anything. For every "the sky is falling" post, a return salvo of"get tough Sally" doesn't really help the situation imo. But I'm kind of new here...
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: If GW were to make a "competitive", "viable" game, over half of Dakka would die from exploding heads, shocked because they have nothing better to do than complain. I am looking forward to a new.codex. Yes some stuff went away, but hopefully some stuff I wanted to do in the old book will be feasible again!
I do like how you've finally learned to qualify implicitly that, as a matter of fact, they currently do not
Altruizine wrote: Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
I found one bit of explanation in the images over at Black Library about the new Codex:
"Designer's Note: Tyranid Melee weapons come as pairs. For game purposes, each pair is treated as a single Melee weapon. This means that Tyranid Models must fight with two pairs of any Tyranid Melee weapons to gain a bonus Attack in close combat for fighting with two weapons. For example, a Hormagaunt armed with a single pair of scything talons does not gain a bonus Attack, but a Ravener with two pairs of scything talons, or a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons, does." - Taken from Black library excerpts of new codex http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Codex-Tyranids.html
I feel this is a bit harsh on the poor Hormagaunt. An Ork boy gets to start off with A2 and get a bonus for two different weapons but our poor Hormies get that old 'already figured into your profile' line.
That page also has Bone Swords as AP3 which is a shame for the Prime if he can't get anything better. Speaking of which I wonder how the LW/BS combo will work if you also have RC or STs? Hopefully they are thinking ahead and providing similar Designer's notes.
Supposedly, primes and hive tyrants get a special type of bonesword that's AP2. That's a pretty old rumor though, dunno if it's been discredited or not.
SickSix wrote: Well I sure hope Shrikes are still in the book otherwise I have some useless models.
Unless they're in a book by Forge World and are 40K approved, which would still make them a perfectly legal unit, then yes you're correct. Winged paperweights.
Enough. Next post that I find to be off-topic results in account suspension. No more meta posts; no more snarky responses to meta posts; no more snide comments at all.
THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Supposedly, primes and hive tyrants get a special type of bonesword that's AP2. That's a pretty old rumor though, dunno if it's been discredited or not.
Well Tyrants are already AP2 so that hardly matters for them. However if the upgrade costs are reasonable, Boneswords and Rending Claws could be a decent combo on Primes/Warriors, now that we know it gives a bonus attack. From a Prime that'll be something like six WS6 I5 attacks on the charge, and any 6's rolled will outright kill most units. Amazing for challenges.
I was merely saying that I had empathy for those who had the 4 spore pod list, especially if they put a ton of time in to creating it. It is always a bummer if an army's play style changes dramatically and one really enjoys that play style. Sure the spore pod heads of the world could play space marines but I would venture to say it was a combination of the bugs and the spore pods not just the spore pods themselves.
I too spent time sorting out my own spore pods, but to be honest I'm really not sorry to see them go. They take up precious storage space for an army that's already tricky to transport, give up easy kill points during games and rarely spent more than a turn or two on the board against savvy opponents.
From now on if I have the room to bring them, my spore pods will be used as some Tyranid-themed terrain to fight around. At least that way they're used for more than 1-2 turns.
Souleater wrote: I would be surprised if they have been removed. After all, FW make the kit for them.
My money says that Shrikes aren't in the codex, but instead later this year we'll get IA4 2nd Edition with updated rules for things like Shrikes and Sky-slashers that FW still make. IA4 is due for the next update, and that would help keep the ranges nicely separated, while allowing people to still use their cool toys. FW might even do a Mycetic Spore too!
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Other stuff looks pretty good.
I don't know, just because the Harpy is big doesn't mean it's heavy. There's dozens of ways it could be believably explained within the lore.
Regarding the earlier discussion of Hive Tyrants and Boneswords, remember that Hive Tyrants are Monstrous Creatures. Their attacks are AP2 regardless of whether or not the sword is AP3 or not.
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Other stuff looks pretty good.
I don't know, just because the Harpy is big doesn't mean it's heavy. There's dozens of ways it could be believably explained within the lore.
Regarding the earlier discussion of Hive Tyrants and Boneswords, remember that Hive Tyrants are Monstrous Creatures. Their attacks are AP2 regardless of whether or not the sword is AP3 or not.
I'm guessing it's probably got hollow bones (like birds) and possibly the expanded ribcage is full of some sort of gas like helium that helps its buoyancy in air. The wings are also extended forward in the pose, so they look a bit smaller from a couple angles.
Hmmm... I'm fairly underwhelmed by this release so far. The flyers look, well, like flyers, like GW got a plane and nidified it. The Flyrant is what I imagine Tyranid flyers to be like, not those mono-pose, rigid ones. The Exocrine is pretty cool, but at the end of the day, it's a big gun. The Haruspex's vomit is over the top, the Warriors look largely unchanged (though finally they've put boneswords in the kit!) and although I like the idea of the Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard box, especially with all the new options, £42 is very expensive, even if they are big, chunky, dual-kit models.
Sounds like there's a lot of biomorphs that have been (re)added, so here's hoping the rules at least will be good!
My first impression of the Harpy was that it looked a bit too fat and wings a bit too small.
Something that big just doesn't feel right being that fat and small winged. Looking at birds, the only birds that have short wings and fat bodies are small birds, any large birds have much larger wings.
You could argue that the Harpy is super fast and has some crazy propulsion system to keep it's speed up and thus needs smaller wings and can get away with a fatter body... but it just doesn't look right to me.
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Other stuff looks pretty good.
I don't know, just because the Harpy is big doesn't mean it's heavy. There's dozens of ways it could be believably explained within the lore.
Regarding the earlier discussion of Hive Tyrants and Boneswords, remember that Hive Tyrants are Monstrous Creatures. Their attacks are AP2 regardless of whether or not the sword is AP3 or not.
I'm guessing it's probably got hollow bones (like birds) and possibly the expanded ribcage is full of some sort of gas like helium that helps its buoyancy in air. The wings are also extended forward in the pose, so they look a bit smaller from a couple angles.
I like this explanation a lot! It would also explain why it's typically got lower Toughness than other Monstrous Creatures.
My comment was actually a query as to whether or not we will still be able to combine the effects of all of our different CCW as we can now or if they have removed that ability.
@HMBC: I hope STs get bumped up to re-rolling all misses with just a single pair. It would help Hormies a lot.
The Shadow wrote: Where is everyone getting these rules rumours (no Pod, bonuses for extra CCW etc) from?
No pod in the dex is a legitimate rumor, as no one has confirmed it yet. However, there are several bits of evidence to suggest it. We've seen the Hormagaunt, Warrior, Termagant profiles so far, and neither had a Spod option.
The +1 attack from CCW is confirmed and you can see it with your own eyes on the Black Library digital preview of the new codex.
Ordered the codex and a Harpy/Crone from my local Games workshop and picked the wife up a Riptide to round out her Eldau for the coming battles at home.
If the rules are good Ill just buy a Haruspex next Saturday, Im relatively sure they wont sell all of them.
Ordered the codex as soon as I saw it, I for one cannot wait to start reading it from front to back. Got myself a harpy and a haruspex to cause the 360 degree view was simply beautiful, had to resist from buy more than one, that can wait till I've finished my 30 gargoyles on my desk!
Stupid question, but I presume that the tyranid swarm box, is our new battleforce and wont be a limited time only offer such as the carnifex brood? Cause im desperate for one but if it is a limited time thing I'll grab one just cause to buy it all separately is almost double the price!
Its listed as £20 pounds in white dwarf but £27 on their website!
Actually, they've dropped in price: it used to be a 12 model box, it's now a 20 model kit which actually lowers the price per model a (small) bit.
He's referring to the typo in the white dwarf - it lists the 20 pack of gaunts as $33 usd in the magazine but they're $44 on the website (2.20 per gaunt). The 12 pack box is 29.50 (2.46 per gaunt) so it is overall cheaper.
White dwarf typos have happened before -- when tau came out and crisis teams were repackaged into 3 man boxes, white dwarf initially said they were $75 but it turned out they were only $65 for 3.
i havent been following this thread much, but are you guys telling me that right up until today (04.01) there hadnt been any leaked pics? now thats impressive.
My money says that Shrikes aren't in the codex, but instead later this year we'll get IA4 2nd Edition with updated rules for things like Shrikes and Sky-slashers that FW still make. IA4 is due for the next update, and that would help keep the ranges nicely separated, while allowing people to still use their cool toys. FW might even do a Mycetic Spore too!
IN our round of the London shops today (to pick up White Dwarf, order a codex, psychic cards and a Crone), one GW employee suggested there might be a second wave a la Dark Elves, and an indie employee suggested FW might produce spores. They might well be reading the same rumour sites we are, but it's a good reminder that the context is certain to change.
I think my post got lost in the mix of rapid posting earlier but if you look at the WD entry for Warp Lance its now assault 3.
Pretty massive buff to Zoanthropes.
I am just wondering now if taking CC Flyrants (Scything Talons, LW & BS, Toxin Sacs) and then trying to roll Warp Lance from the Psychic table is going to be a much better idea.
In theory, the Hive Tyrant could shoot a vehicle with its Lance and then charge them, hitting first, rerolling 1's and to wound rolls (which are minimum 4+) and causing ID on a 6 to wound still with its AP2.
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Well, everything with wings in all GW games (or anyone else's miniature games, for that matter) has too small wings to support itself. Otherwise you'd get real problems fitting the models on the table. It's the same reason transport vehicles couldn't realistically fit the correct number of people, or why weapon ranges are ridiculously short compared to model sizes.
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Well, everything with wings in all GW games (or anyone else's miniature games, for that matter) has too small wings to support itself. Otherwise you'd get real problems fitting the models on the table. It's the same reason transport vehicles couldn't realistically fit the correct number of people, or why weapon ranges are ridiculously short compared to model sizes.
It's just one of those things.
That is true, however the Harpy looks particularly disproportionate, which is why it's a bit more noticeable. Something closer to the proportions of a Gargoyle would have been better, IMO.
Well after inspecting the sprues on the fotos i have to say the new tyrant/hive guard box is a must!!
the new warrior box is also sweet! you can even upgrade your old warriors with the parts that you will not use
(like making a prime and 2 guys with boneswords and then using all the rest stuff to upgrade your old warriors)even thought i prefer the old barbed stranger
haruspex is meh... i am not fond of big models at all
so harpy/crone is a no go also.. even thought i bet it will be good on the table
the bigest monster creture that my nid army will ever see it is going to be the carnifex and hive tyrant
I've found outside of the most competitive enviroments, the 6E codexes have been much more forgiving in allowing you to put down the models you like and have a playable army.
Yesterday I'd pointed out that the Termagant's page said they had 21 Stranglewebs. Apparently this was a typo, because it's been changed to 21 devourers.
c0j1r0 wrote: Yesterday I'd pointed out that the Termagant's page said they had 21 Stranglewebs. Apparently this was a typo, because it's been changed to 21 devourers.
I thought the "21" bit was a typo... Seems strange they'd add in one extra of each.
sennacherib wrote: THe wings on the Harpy are just Way to small to support something that size. THey should have added a bit more plastic and given the wings a tiny bit more reach.
Well, everything with wings in all GW games (or anyone else's miniature games, for that matter) has too small wings to support itself. Otherwise you'd get real problems fitting the models on the table. It's the same reason transport vehicles couldn't realistically fit the correct number of people, or why weapon ranges are ridiculously short compared to model sizes.
It's just one of those things.
Very true. It's all an abstraction of real things happening, so it makes sense in that light. I can can actually fit a full squad of tactical Marines into a rhino, though I could get get them out...
Though two flyers make sense, and those are the necron flyers, since they don't rely on aerodynamics. However, I like the gas theory, and that could be a viable reason and make it not too small.
c0j1r0 wrote: Yesterday I'd pointed out that the Termagant's page said they had 21 Stranglewebs. Apparently this was a typo, because it's been changed to 21 devourers.
I thought the "21" bit was a typo... Seems strange they'd add in one extra of each.
No, that part makes sense, because if I remember correctly, there are 3 devourers to a sprue, so that would be 7 sprues with 21 devourers to accommodate 20 Gants.
Same for Spine fists. They're on the same special weapon sprue.
c0j1r0 wrote: Yesterday I'd pointed out that the Termagant's page said they had 21 Stranglewebs. Apparently this was a typo, because it's been changed to 21 devourers.
I thought the "21" bit was a typo... Seems strange they'd add in one extra of each.
No, that part makes sense, because if I remember correctly, there are 3 devourers to a sprue, so that would be 7 sprues with 21 devourers to accommodate 20 Gants.
Same for Spine fists. They're on the same special weapon sprue.
But then that only adds up to 12 Rippers. (1 per biomorph sprue, 1 per sprue of 4 Gants) The online description says 3 Ripper Bases. So are we only expected to base Rippers in 4s now, instead of 5s?
Not that I mind, I've got tons of unbased Rippers and I've always loved the little guys, so the further they go, the happier I am.
c0j1r0 wrote: Yesterday I'd pointed out that the Termagant's page said they had 21 Stranglewebs. Apparently this was a typo, because it's been changed to 21 devourers.
I thought the "21" bit was a typo... Seems strange they'd add in one extra of each.
No, that part makes sense, because if I remember correctly, there are 3 devourers to a sprue, so that would be 7 sprues with 21 devourers to accommodate 20 Gants.
Same for Spine fists. They're on the same special weapon sprue.
But then that only adds up to 12 Rippers. (1 per biomorph sprue, 1 per sprue of 4 Gants) The online description says 3 Ripper Bases. So are we only expected to base Rippers in 4s now, instead of 5s?
rod
Not that I mind, I've got tons of unbased Rippers and I've always loved the little guys, so the further they go, the happier I am.
I don't see where it mentions how many bases are anywhere. It just says 12 rippers.
[edit]
lol, sometimes my math-brain doesn't work right. What would be 3 bases of 4 wouldn't it. I've always put on 4 rippers, because I that's usually how many there are in the pictures. And they have/had 4 attacks.
im curious and optimistic about the new CC weapons rules. What exactly counts as a CC weapon. If a Tervigon, originally armed with claws and teeth takes crushing claws does he gain an extra attack? Heres hoping its an oversight on the writers part and we can claim the extra bonus.
Backlash wrote: im curious and optimistic about the new CC weapons rules. What exactly counts as a CC weapon. If a Tervigon, originally armed with claws and teeth takes crushing claws does he gain an extra attack? Heres hoping its an oversight on the writers part and we can claim the extra bonus.
I'm not sure how much of a boon that would really be. I almost always end up using Smash on my Tervigons, so 3 attacks becomes 2, and 4 attacks still becomes 2 (+D3 for Crushing Claws of course).
I've got to say, having looked at the Haruspex from 360 degrees on the GW site, as well as seeing its outline from above, I'm pretty happy with the shape and the way it looks. Especially from above, they have managed to capture a fair amount of the old model whilst bringing it into line with the new aesthetic.
The fluff for the creature has been totally re-done (from assault spawn to eating machine during the consumption phase), but that's fine, more detail on the feeding process is never a bad thing as far as I am concerned.
Is it just me or does anyone else feel GW Is just upscaling everything in the Nid range?
First we had Rippers, the Raveners, then Trygons and Mawlocs.
First we had Flying Rippers, then Gargoyles, then Shrikes, then Crones and Harpies.
First we had Biovores. Then Bigger Biovores called Tyrannofexes. Now an even bigger one called Exocrine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just me or does anyone else feel GW Is just upscaling everything in the Nid range?
First we had Rippers, the Raveners, then Trygons and Mawlocs.
First we had Flying Rippers, then Gargoyles, then Shrikes, then Crones and Harpies.
First we had Biovores. Then Bigger Biovores called Tyrannofexes. Now an even bigger one called Exocrine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer le boucher wrote: No more acumulation of various special rules from various CC biomorphs?, HEck yeah!, finnaly time they ended that BS.
If i can't get a Termi Lord with Powerfist and LC, who can strike at S8 Ap2 and rethrow failed to wound, i don't see why some bugs could do it.
Now is it certain that there is no more Pods?
thats a shame, had a friend who asked me to convert him 5 of those ...
Because Nids have always been able to do that? Since 4th Ed at least. And because Nid weapons are their own arms and claws, and have been bred for war? As opposed to Captain Bob who learned how? No matter how skilled he is he is never going to be as good with his Powerfist and LC he learned to use, as someone who was born with them (ouch!).
Games Workshop wrote:The Haruspex is a ferocious beast sculpted with a gak eating grin on it's face because everyone knows nothing says "ferocious" like a grin.
Deadshot wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else feel GW Is just upscaling everything in the Nid range?
First we had Rippers, the Raveners, then Trygons and Mawlocs.
First we had Flying Rippers, then Gargoyles, then Shrikes, then Crones and Harpies.
First we had Biovores. Then Bigger Biovores called Tyrannofexes. Now an even bigger one called Exocrine.
The Exocrine is actually smaller than the Tyrannofex.
Noctem wrote: Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!
I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:
I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...
Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.
For now I'm buying:
Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's
Anything to add or not buy?
Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh
Shouldn't we wait for the codex to give advice?
Hence what I said about the codex not being out yet =P was just asking from what we know about the new rules from leaks and what may be still good even with a new codex
O...K...
Nothing is tangible until release day. Rumors and leaks are just that.
davethepak wrote:
Hive Guard - it should be easy as well to magnetize the two different guns for the hive guard.
What two guns and what do they do?
Noctem wrote:Actually some people gave some good advice, so thanks... either way, the leaks do show the gaunts being cheaper.
Either way, sorry I asked.
I was actually trying to help save your money before any of us knew what the units and rules would actually be... such as buffs, synergy between units, psychic powers, synapse, FOC modifiers... to many variables to try to speculate. I usually don't buy new models until reviewing a new Codex for a couple of weeks. To each their own.
I think it's safe to say that the Haruspex/Exocrine and Harpy/Crone boxes will be worth buying, and the Swarm Box is just too good of a deal to pass up!
Slayer le boucher wrote: No more acumulation of various special rules from various CC biomorphs?, HEck yeah!, finnaly time they ended that BS.
If i can't get a Termi Lord with Powerfist and LC, who can strike at S8 Ap2 and rethrow failed to wound, i don't see why some bugs could do it.
Now is it certain that there is no more Pods?
thats a shame, had a friend who asked me to convert him 5 of those ...
Because Nids have always been able to do that? Since 4th Ed at least. And because Nid weapons are their own arms and claws, and have been bred for war? As opposed to Captain Bob who learned how? No matter how skilled he is he is never going to be as good with his Powerfist and LC he learned to use, as someone who was born with them (ouch!).
Doesn't change the fact that they are now melee in their type, so they are under the melee weapons rules and restrictions, welcome to the streamlined world of 6th ed grab a seat and enjoy.
That note seems to be solely about extra attacks. It even notes that scything talons + rending claws = extra attack. Nothing to do with the special rules themselves.
MORE THAN ONE WEAPON
...
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat (see page 24)."
...welp
Perhaps the ScyTal or Rending Claw rules will have an exception to this... maybe.
davethepak wrote:
Hive Guard - it should be easy as well to magnetize the two different guns for the hive guard.
What two guns and what do they do?
The impaler cannon, and the shockcannon. If you look at the sprue, only the front ends of the guns are different, and have a common attachment point on the end of the gun.
I suspect they did this to either save space on the spure, or so you can't have left over full weapons to put on other older models.
Oh, and I have no idea what they will do in the new codex stat wise, so I won't even speculate or waste any mental energy them yet.
I also suspect I may be able to mag the exocrine, but I have to see exactly how the front areas attach.
I magnetize a lot of things, while this can save you money, I primarily do it to save SPACE in storage and transport.
(all of my trygons can be mallocs as well, and my tervigons can be tfexes). It helps a lot with the big bugs.
For things like gants stealers, I don't bother.
The new warrior kits look good as well, I am not sure if I will pick any up, I already have a lot of warriors, but I do like those lash whips - might pick some of those up on ebay.
That would be misreading. I did not miss that. This is calling out a specific exception to melee weapons. Apparently not the only one either, thus it being a note.
It proves nothing. We can wait.
editing to add: My point is the lack of proof of your point, not the verifying of its incorrectness.
davethepak wrote:
Hive Guard - it should be easy as well to magnetize the two different guns for the hive guard.
What two guns and what do they do?
The impaler cannon, and the shockcannon. If you look at the sprue, only the front ends of the guns are different, and have a common attachment point on the end of the gun.
I suspect they did this to either save space on the spure, or so you can't have left over full weapons to put on other older models.
Oh, and I have no idea what they will do in the new codex stat wise, so I won't even speculate or waste any mental energy them yet.
I also suspect I may be able to mag the exocrine, but I have to see exactly how the front areas attach.
I magnetize a lot of things, while this can save you money, I primarily do it to save SPACE in storage and transport.
(all of my trygons can be mallocs as well, and my tervigons can be tfexes). It helps a lot with the big bugs.
For things like gants stealers, I don't bother.
The new warrior kits look good as well, I am not sure if I will pick any up, I already have a lot of warriors, but I do like those lash whips - might pick some of those up on ebay.
I REALLY appreciate this post. As a new 'Nid player, I was hoping to magnetize the biggest bigs to save a bit as I get started, and at least the weapons are Carnifexes. Hearing that someone else has done it without too much hell makes me feel a little more secure, as to date all i've had to magnetize were Warmachine/Hordes Jacks/Beasts, which are stupidly easy to do.
xttz wrote: MORE THAN ONE WEAPON
...
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat (see page 24)."
...welp
Perhaps the ScyTal or Rending Claw rules will have an exception to this... maybe.
That is the quote from the BRB yes? If that's in the new book I'll cry. But, both previous Nid books have cited exceptions so I believe it'll be the case here. Just please tell me that's the BRB quote...
DO ITTOIT wrote: The BRB has always been like that, and Nids have always had an exception.
Of course, but they also haven't gained an extra attack from multiple weapons ever. If THAT is changing, who's to say that out exception for stacking melee weapon effect hasn't changed as well?
DO ITTOIT wrote: The BRB has always been like that, and Nids have always had an exception.
Of course, but they also haven't gained an extra attack from multiple weapons ever. If THAT is changing, who's to say that out exception for stacking melee weapon effect hasn't changed as well?
Disturb3d wrote: Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.
Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout
Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.
"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat." - BRB, page 51
We need to start freaking out about this!
J/K... mostly. Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.
Tyranid rules and fans currently clearly state that the effects of all cc weapons work in tandem...it's better to think of each bug as a weapon, rather than the idea that they're carrying a weapon
Not all tyranids come with tooth and claws. The real issue now is will we retain the ability to mix and match weapon abilities. or will we sacrifice that ability to gain the attacks?
barnowl wrote: Just noticed that Ripper Swarms got a slight upgrade with the loss of Mindless. They now no longer just die out of Synapse. So better but not great.
It really boils down to how debilitating the "instictive behavior tables" are for them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Just saw this on warpshadow!
We'll see once the Codex drops. If Venomthropes and Zoanthropes have been moved to plastic, the second wave of models would be showcased in the codex.
In any of the materials released so far by GW, has anyone seen a Pyrovore, Biovore, or Zoanthrope? We've seen the Venomthrope in images from the codex, though, suggesting that this model will not get a second wave model release..
barnowl wrote: Just noticed that Ripper Swarms got a slight upgrade with the loss of Mindless. They now no longer just die out of Synapse. So better but not great.
It really boils down to how debilitating the "instictive behavior tables" are for them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Just saw this on warpshadow!
Possible February release????? Iyanden warzone w/ a plastic bio Titan?????
Eldar and Tyranids are the armies with the most finecast in them at the moment, so it would be a decent justification to update the models for both in one go.
It's a good excuse for a double-wave like DElves got... but hey, I'm excited for new fluff if nothing else! I don't think there'll be a Hierophant though, perhaps a smaller bio-titan that's closer to Hierodule size.
I just got the new WD with the Tyranid stuff in it. The new models look good, but I do feel that too many of them have essentially the same head. The Exocrine, for example, would arguably look better without a grinning head under the gun. The proliferation of big beasties is pretty scary - I'll be interested to see how the new nids play.
Honestly nids are the recipients of so much fakery I really don't expect the iyanden to be true. However it would be totally amazing for my 30th birthday.
tetrisphreak wrote: Honestly nids are the recipients of so much fakery I really don't expect the iyanden to be true. However it would be totally amazing for my 30th birthday.
The picture shown is far too convincing to be fake, especially as it is completely new artwork.
The kits might be fake, but considering the same person that leaked the photo was the one that talked about the kits, and going off the two-wave release for all future codices I've heard about, this seems very much legit.
Absolutionis wrote: Eldar and Tyranids are the armies with the most finecast in them at the moment, so it would be a decent justification to update the models for both in one go.
The most Finecast? They only have 7 different Aspect Warriors in it, plus a couple of the HQ's...the ones that aren't that single Farseer. Actually feeling lucky the vehicles are plastic at this point. Sure they need to update the models but I highly doubt we'd see all that or even half of it given new models. Maybe new casts in the "new" resin though, that I could see.
Wouldn't mind it if it happened but I'm not really expecting anything just yet.
tetrisphreak wrote: Honestly nids are the recipients of so much fakery I really don't expect the iyanden to be true. However it would be totally amazing for my 30th birthday.
The picture shown is far too convincing to be fake, especially as it is completely new artwork.
The kits might be fake, but considering the same person that leaked the photo was the one that talked about the kits, and going off the two-wave release for all future codices I've heard about, this seems very much legit.
The picture is not completely new artwork
It appears in the GW site of digital editions Codex: Tyranids (Enhanced Edition)
tetrisphreak wrote: Honestly nids are the recipients of so much fakery I really don't expect the iyanden to be true. However it would be totally amazing for my 30th birthday.
The picture shown is far too convincing to be fake, especially as it is completely new artwork.
The kits might be fake, but considering the same person that leaked the photo was the one that talked about the kits, and going off the two-wave release for all future codices I've heard about, this seems very much legit.
The picture is not completely new artwork
It appears in the GW site of digital editions Codex: Tyranids (Enhanced Edition)
I can't believe the audacity some people will go thru to make fake pics just to gain attention or just to start a barrage of blog conversations haha
Ah, fair enough.
I might be wrong, but it just fits to me. What do you guys think? What makes me think it could be true is that I've actually heard from pretty reliable dudes that most/all armies are getting second waves.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah I've had a thought about it and decided that is fake. Hopefully there is still a second wave for Tyranids at some point, February or not, to replace the old Finecast stuff.
Shingen wrote: I think my post got lost in the mix of rapid posting earlier but if you look at the WD entry for Warp Lance its now assault 3.
Pretty massive buff to Zoanthropes.
I am just wondering now if taking CC Flyrants (Scything Talons, LW & BS, Toxin Sacs) and then trying to roll Warp Lance from the Psychic table is going to be a much better idea.
In theory, the Hive Tyrant could shoot a vehicle with its Lance and then charge them, hitting first, rerolling 1's and to wound rolls (which are minimum 4+) and causing ID on a 6 to wound still with its AP2.
Seems like a great idea to me!!!
I don't know where you're getting that info from. On pg 30 it still has it as assault 1. Also it got dropped from ap 1 to ap 2 which kinda sucks.
Shingen wrote: I think my post got lost in the mix of rapid posting earlier but if you look at the WD entry for Warp Lance its now assault 3.
Pretty massive buff to Zoanthropes.
I am just wondering now if taking CC Flyrants (Scything Talons, LW & BS, Toxin Sacs) and then trying to roll Warp Lance from the Psychic table is going to be a much better idea.
In theory, the Hive Tyrant could shoot a vehicle with its Lance and then charge them, hitting first, rerolling 1's and to wound rolls (which are minimum 4+) and causing ID on a 6 to wound still with its AP2.
Seems like a great idea to me!!!
I don't know where you're getting that info from. On pg 30 it still has it as assault 1. Also it got dropped from ap 1 to ap 2 which kinda sucks.
Still pretty nasty though considering Flying Hive Tyrants now have access to it. Hopefully they actually got a Ballistic Skill buff!
reaverX wrote: ...Also it got dropped from ap 1 to ap 2 which kinda sucks.
AP1 in 5th ed is the same as AP2 in 6th, so that's not exactly a proper nerf.
Agreed with both quotes. I obviously wouldn't rely on a Hive Tyrant rolling up Warp Blast, and if it is indeed Warp Charge 2, I may just leave my current Tyrants as they are - just take two pairs of Brainleech Devourers!
On that note, from the battle report, it seems like the rumour about Brainleech Devourers dropping in Strength was false given the damage they dealt? Would make my current Flying Hive Tyrant builds - previously 260 points, now 205 points - so, so much happier. And they were already bloody strong!
The passage from the BRB is quite correct. However, as I am sure we all know the Tyranid exception is in their Codex. At the moment we only have one page regarding close combat weapons from the new codex. It may be that the exception still exists but within the 'Army Wide Special Rules' In other words, GW might have done the usual thing of putting closely related rules in two different sections.
If they have taken away this ability it is a downgrade for things like Genestealers with ST, Raveners with RC/ST, etc.
Given Tyranids slant towards CC and the lack of either INV Saves, Armour Saves, Overwatch, inability to assault straight into CC I think the ability for some few Tyranid models to combine their weapons is balanced. If expensive Warriors and Raveners can still be popped in assault with S8 Weaponary, the Nids should get some advantage. And that is without the possibility that we have lost SPods and still may not have frag grenades on many of our assault broods.
The passage from the BRB is quite correct. However, as I am sure we all know the Tyranid exception is in their Codex. At the moment we only have one page regarding close combat weapons from the new codex. It may be that the exception still exists but within the 'Army Wide Special Rules' In other words, GW might have done the usual thing of putting closely related rules in two different sections.
If they have taken away this ability it is a downgrade for things like Genestealers with ST, Raveners with RC/ST, etc.
Given Tyranids slant towards CC and the lack of either INV Saves, Armour Saves, Overwatch, inability to assault straight into CC I think the ability for some few Tyranid models to combine their weapons is balanced. If expensive Warriors and Raveners can still be popped in assault with S8 Weaponary, the Nids should get some advantage. And that is without the possibility that we have lost SPods and still may not have frag grenades on many of our assault broods.
Tyranids aren't just there to be punch bags.
Methinks that Designer's Note about paired melee weapons is in the Bonesword entry to cover using them or any other weapon in "pairs", as every Tyranid melee weapon comes in a pair. That would leave room for an Army Special Rule allowing Tyranids to combine the effects of more than one melee weapon.
However, it will be weird trying to combine melee weapons now that they have distinct profiles, which actually does lead me to think there could be some fire behind the smoke. Do you use the best stats and all special rules, etc?
I doubt we'll get the models the rumour is saying (combo-kit Hierophant, and plastic Venomthrope/Pyrovore/two other things), but the book, sure. That sounds plausible.
Will probably buy the codex on release but, not buying anything until I know what it can do. The new kits look pretty awesome, but I'm not wasting money on something that may or may not fit into my army.
As a general rule I try to avoid the rumour mill because I get myself too excited.
Still, that shooty nid will fit into my army, (exocrine was it?) I hope. What's that looking like so far rule wise. Anyone got anything?
Shingen wrote: I think my post got lost in the mix of rapid posting earlier but if you look at the WD entry for Warp Lance its now assault 3.
Pretty massive buff to Zoanthropes.
I am just wondering now if taking CC Flyrants (Scything Talons, LW & BS, Toxin Sacs) and then trying to roll Warp Lance from the Psychic table is going to be a much better idea.
In theory, the Hive Tyrant could shoot a vehicle with its Lance and then charge them, hitting first, rerolling 1's and to wound rolls (which are minimum 4+) and causing ID on a 6 to wound still with its AP2.
Seems like a great idea to me!!!
I don't know where you're getting that info from. On pg 30 it still has it as assault 1. Also it got dropped from ap 1 to ap 2 which kinda sucks.
It's on the psychic card picture if you look at it closely.
Regards the 2nd wave (discussed on the previous page), the current WD has a full page shot of the 5 FC models left in the range, including Zoan and Venom, which suggests to me an immediate second wave replacing these models is unlikely, in that they (probably) wouldn't advertise models that are going to be replaced in the next WD, which is only 3 weeks away.
Darkjim wrote: Regards the 2nd wave (discussed on the previous page), the current WD has a full page shot of the 5 FC models left in the range, including Zoan and Venom, which suggests to me an immediate second wave replacing these models is unlikely, in that they (probably) wouldn't advertise models that are going to be replaced in the next WD, which is only 3 weeks away.
I don't think the new Dark Elf models were showcased with the WD that preceded the Dark Elf Codex. We did see shots of the 2nd wave in the Dark Elf Codex though.
Why wouldn't they advertise them? Plenty of people to purchase those excess models before the new ones are released.
Darkjim wrote: Regards the 2nd wave (discussed on the previous page), the current WD has a full page shot of the 5 FC models left in the range, including Zoan and Venom, which suggests to me an immediate second wave replacing these models is unlikely, in that they (probably) wouldn't advertise models that are going to be replaced in the next WD, which is only 3 weeks away.
I don't think the new Dark Elf models were showcased with the WD that preceded the Dark Elf Codex. We did see shots of the 2nd wave in the Dark Elf Codex though.
Why wouldn't they advertise them? Plenty of people to purchase those excess models before the new ones are released.
I just would have thought if they were to be immediately replaced they would have been left out altogether. A second wave would be entirely awesome, trying not to get hopes up
Looking at the Tyrant Guard again, apart from the fact the consistently remind me of the Diamond Weapon on FF7, have they got a second weapon?
Rending Claws as standard again?
I wonder how the rules for the FMC will work?
No legs, but scything talons, so can Assault.
Looking at the pre-orders on GW website, there isn't any chance of getting anything early or even on time for this release. Unless you want to pay £11/14 shipping charges for a chance that includes Saturday delivery.
My local said on FB that they could possibly reserve me a codex if i can't make it in to order.
But you can order now and have it delivered to your local store guaranteed for Saturday pick-up. But then the money doesn't go to the store!
That should hopefully help any confusion us newbs have/ had.
Been reading through this thread for the last hour, sorry just catching up.
On the older discussion of the removal of Mycetic Spore for deepstriking, to argue against those who don't see why anyone would be upset, I indeed think this is a bit of a blow. It functioned as many things other than just allowing a safer deepstrike. It was a monstrous creature that could contest objectives and with a bit of luck actually bring a little bit of hurt to a nearby enemy squad. All whilst blocking LoS whilst your zoans, devilgants, fexes etc mopped up whatever they needed to do. It drew a volley fire from enemy to get rid of it which also helped. The worst of all is that many of us spent hours designing and creating one only to find it's now likely a waste of time.
But the inclusion of death leaper as a HQ choice could present a new deep striking options into the game for some units that previously used the spore pod. If it's been made a HQ choice I can imagine the intention is to actually try and provide different styles of gameplay. All being completely speculation but the stealthy, mindgames of lictors and genestealers appearing on the battlefield would provide a solution to draw away from the "monobuild" everyone is talking about. Particularly if they come with rules that shift the FOC somewhat, (like a Slaanesh lord making noise marines troops.) to change the way you build a list based around who is leading it. That would be incredible. Probably just wishful thinking.
Double flyrant double tervigon is getting old. I sure hope we don't end up double flyrant, double tervigon, triple crone/harpy.
I recently acquired an old metal death leaper and I am glad I did. I hope it proves useful, and even if not entirely competetive, atleast interesting to play.
The only thing we can do is wait for the codex and pray the new rules diversify the tyranids into the army they should be. A swarm with loads of different viable options.
Looking at the pre-orders on GW website, there isn't any chance of getting anything early or even on time for this release. Unless you want to pay £11/14 shipping charges for a chance that includes Saturday delivery.
My local said on FB that they could possibly reserve me a codex if i can't make it in to order.
Darksphere mailed out saying their preorders will be mailed out on the 10th, if you take the next day delivery it should be there on the day. With that postage it works out at RRP (for a single codex).
Looking at the pre-orders on GW website, there isn't any chance of getting anything early or even on time for this release. Unless you want to pay £11/14 shipping charges for a chance that includes Saturday delivery.
My local said on FB that they could possibly reserve me a codex if i can't make it in to order.
Darksphere mailed out saying their preorders will be mailed out on the 10th, if you take the next day delivery it should be there on the day. With that postage it works out at RRP (for a single codex).
You do realise you can buy and get it shipped to your local store for free from the gw website?
That's true. Other wise, the Sisters of Battles, that GW has online is a fake as well. I still remember all the "FAKE" posts people were thumping their chests calling it, because the SoB was reusing existing artwork.
Looking at the pre-orders on GW website, there isn't any chance of getting anything early or even on time for this release. Unless you want to pay £11/14 shipping charges for a chance that includes Saturday delivery.
My local said on FB that they could possibly reserve me a codex if i can't make it in to order.
Darksphere mailed out saying their preorders will be mailed out on the 10th, if you take the next day delivery it should be there on the day. With that postage it works out at RRP (for a single codex).
You do realise you can buy and get it shipped to your local store for free from the gw website?
Looking at the pre-orders on GW website, there isn't any chance of getting anything early or even on time for this release. Unless you want to pay £11/14 shipping charges for a chance that includes Saturday delivery.
My local said on FB that they could possibly reserve me a codex if i can't make it in to order.
Darksphere mailed out saying their preorders will be mailed out on the 10th, if you take the next day delivery it should be there on the day. With that postage it works out at RRP (for a single codex).
You do realise you can buy and get it shipped to your local store for free from the gw website?
Probably because GW doesn't send out the shipment of codices until the following monday. So its not even in the mail by the time you could walk into a store and pick it up. The copies they give to other companies don't have that issue, just their direct orders.
So sure you can order from GW and get your codex a week late. Or you can order it from somewhere else and possibly get it early. Or to guarantee you get it on the day it comes out just walk into a LGS
Im considering some armies to build but I am waiting for the codex to come out. God knows what crazy combo we could make so I am holding on buying any models.
Would you guys invest in a full carnifex army if OOE opened Fex's as troop choice ?
Would you make an all air army if flyrants opened gargs as troops?
Or would you rather make a swarmy list with so many models it is barely conceiveable to wipe out the army completely?
I think all of the above could be viable but we wont know until the codex is out. Sucks that we lost the option to "drop pod" though.
. Nor do I consider 1 point off per Termagant, but needing to take triple as many for Tervigon troops a serious improvement to that unit either. But regardless to that. buffs to the units we already take is really irrelevant to the point I was clearly making about mono-lists - 30 points or whatever it was off the Flyrant is brilliant. Absolutely. But this isn't improving the dex's flexibility at all. It's just cementing a unit that most already take max of per armylist already. That isn't adding new options. However, the pointcost drop on the carnifex is giving us Fexes back. This is great news, we can possibly use our Heavys for killing tanks, taking pressure off the elite slot, allowing other units that 
