harkequin wrote: I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.
Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.
That's a typo.
Of course it is, but someone who's only ever used the digital version wouldn't automatically know that, because it almost makes sense.
EDIT: The digital one has a typo I (we?) mean. That's how the table has always been, 4+ until over double.
but if history has taught us anything in this game, anytime an army found a legal way for the first player to get off a first turn charge, it was immediately faq'ed out.
Except for that blood angel formation But yeah, a T1 15 scarab charge will at minimum, upset someone's plan , if not outright ruin it.
harkequin wrote: I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.
Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.
That's a typo.
The chart contradicts the logic explained elsewhere on the page. I would check with your opponent or TO to see which they would go with.
omerakk wrote: I dont know if I would get to used to the scarab idea.
There's nothing wrong with it; it is perfectly legal... but if history has taught us anything in this game, anytime an army found a legal way for the first player to get off a first turn charge, it was immediately faq'ed out.
immediately faq'ed
It would be worth it for an immediate Necron FAQ for the new codex.
Seriously though, It's a combo that requires 300 points, and $200 worth, of Spyders to get a half dozen 20 point models into combat. It's not exactly a deathstar.
adamsouza wrote: I take back everything I said about Scarab Dash being a gimmick. Dug out my models and ran a few simulations, with 6 Spyders, starting on the deployment zone edge. You can reliably spawn scarabs up to 12" into the center of the battlefield in the first movement phase without even moving the scarabs. Their 12" movement carries a few of them them all them way to the enemies deployment zone edge, within charge range.
If you go first, a first turn charge could be invaluable tool to monkey wrench enemy forces.
I tried it with 6 Spyders, but I believe you could still accomplish it with a minimum of 4 Spyders.
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
Yes , but you move the spyder 6" forward then spawn in coherency until the last one spawns 6" infron of the spyder, so 12" past your deployment line, before even moving the scarabs
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
Yes , but you move the spyder 6" forward then spawn in coherency until the last one spawns 6" infron of the spyder, so 12" past your deployment line, before even moving the scarabs
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
You could save points by just going with the 5+ , 4+ versus shooting with taking a Chronometron.
-25 Points
- Points for Warscythe Change
- Points Drop the Lord take a Cryptek
- Drop the H. Destroyers in the Destroyer Units
- Add More Flayed Ones
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
Why so many phase shifters on the Crypteks? they all ready have a 4++ (technically) id drop one and buy the DL a 2+.
Id also split the Flayed ones, 1 x group of 5 and the rest deep striking in with the DL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: You could save points by just going with the 5+ , 4+ versus shooting with taking a Chronometron.
-25 Points
- Points for Warscythe Change
- Points Drop the Lord take a Cryptek
- Drop the H. Destroyers in the Destroyer Units
- Add More Flayed Ones
I really don't suggest taking minimum squads of Flayed Ones, you're going to see them get run off the board, while yes they have LD 10 there's enough out there for negative leadership modifiers to not care.
Other than the kill points I don't see any issue with running small units of flayed ones. You are just as likely to fail a morale check with 10 in a squad as you are when you have 5. Only difference on a morale level is that you only need 2 casualties for a check with 5 vs 3 for 10, if you are considering running a squad of 10 flayed ones I would argue that 2 squads of 5 would be better if you have available slots. You can always just charge them into the same unit which further protects them incase they do loose a combat as your less likely to be run down.
Minimum squads of flayed ones are fine especially if your deepstriking since the smaller footprint will make landing easier. The only concern is the easy kill points for 5 man squads which aren't terribly durable but are still about as hard to kill as a 5 man marine squad.
Hey, do you guys think a tournament list can do well without Night Scythes? It cuts down on our mobility and removes anti-air, but more boots on the ground and more MSU might make up for that?
Plus, Flayed Ones and Wraiths can move around the board fast enough to not care about needing flying transports... I dunno. Losing out on flyers hurts, but I think it could work out besides.
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
Why so many phase shifters on the Crypteks? they all ready have a 4++ (technically) id drop one and buy the DL a 2+.
4++/4+++ is nearly unkillable. Once they fall, the C'Tan is quite less powerful. Chronometron is nearly as good (not quite there, but cheaper yes), but once they get into assault - and the Nightbringer wants to be in assault - it does nothing and they die. Horribly.
Punisher wrote: Other than the kill points I don't see any issue with running small units of flayed ones. You are just as likely to fail a morale check with 10 in a squad as you are when you have 5. Only difference on a morale level is that you only need 2 casualties for a check with 5 vs 3 for 10, if you are considering running a squad of 10 flayed ones I would argue that 2 squads of 5 would be better if you have available slots. You can always just charge them into the same unit which further protects them incase they do loose a combat as your less likely to be run down.
Minimum squads of flayed ones are fine especially if your deepstriking since the smaller footprint will make landing easier. The only concern is the easy kill points for 5 man squads which aren't terribly durable but are still about as hard to kill as a 5 man marine squad.
I tend to agree. Unless you are going to work a Dlord or Cryptek into the group, MSU them up as slots allow. Like you said, you can always multi charge with them if needed.
Requizen wrote: 4++/4+++ is nearly unkillable. Once they fall, the C'Tan is quite less powerful. Chronometron is nearly as good (not quite there, but cheaper yes), but once they get into assault - and the Nightbringer wants to be in assault - it does nothing and they die. Horribly.
That's why I think you only need one, 4++ / 4+++ on a 2 wound model with T8 (Crypteks are T8 in the formation right?) If your worried about combat it's possible you still may get a 4+ / 4+++ (depending on who you charged)
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Chronometron, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Solar Staff)
1848
Made the Conclave 25 points cheaper, and split the Flayed Ones into 2 units of 8. I prefer larger units, but units of 8 strike the balance between minimum and large, and taking 2 units allows for more map presence from Infiltrate/Outflank.
I'm thinking of dropping the Scythes altogether and instead taking 6 Whip Coil Wraiths, either in 1 big unit or 2 units of 3. It makes my Troops less useful, but gives more units for taking/contesting objectives and gives a stronger midfield presence. Immortals would basically be relegated to ObSec camping on backfield/midfield objectives. Thoughts on running this with no Flyers?
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
Great Job!!! Way better than my drawing!
The only thing I would add is show the movment of the Scarabs from above so that people realize the Non Produced Scarabs ( the ones not spawned in the deployment zone) end up in the center of the table.
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
That is awesome. Thanks for posting this. Seems like if your enemy has first turn though it would be pretty easy to move away.
buddha wrote: That is awesome. Thanks for posting this.
Tahnks and your welcome.
Seems like if your enemy has first turn though it would be pretty easy to move away.
I'm sorry, I don't follow. You can get the scarabs to the edge of his deployment zone. Where is he moving to ?
If he has a few models, and he sees this coming before you do it, he might be able to hug his table edge, and hope you roll poorly on the charge.
Unless your facing a gun line, they are more likely to actually advance out of their deployment zone and make it easier to get to them
HollisMason wrote:The only thing I would add is show the movment of the Scarabs from above so that people realize the Non Produced Scarabs ( the ones not spawned in the deployment zone) end up in the center of the table.
The Blue Scarabs are the ones I started with, and the lead scarab is on the 24" mark. The rest of them should be 2",a Spyder's base width, behind it.
Admittedly what I used may not be the optimal deployment pattern, as I was really focussing on the ones spawned. I'm all ears if you have a better pattern for their deploment.
The next step for me will be figuring out how to capitalize on this tactic with my 10 Spyder list and the scarabs having RP 4+
buddha wrote: That is awesome. Thanks for posting this.
Tahnks and your welcome.
Seems like if your enemy has first turn though it would be pretty easy to move away.
I'm sorry, I don't follow. You can get the scarabs to the edge of his deployment zone. Where is he moving to ?
If he has a few models, and he sees this coming before you do it, he might be able to hug his table edge, and hope you roll poorly on the charge.
Unless your facing a gun line, they are more likely to actually advance out of their deployment zone and make it easier to get to them
HollisMason wrote:The only thing I would add is show the movment of the Scarabs from above so that people realize the Non Produced Scarabs ( the ones not spawned in the deployment zone) end up in the center of the table.
The Blue Scarabs are the ones I started with, and the lead scarab is on the 24" mark. The rest of them should be 2",a Spyder's base width, behind it.
Admittedly what I used may not be the optimal deployment pattern, as I was really focussing on the ones spawned. I'm all ears if you have a better pattern for their deploment.
The next step for me will be figuring out how to capitalize on this tactic with my 10 Spyder list and the scarabs having RP 4+
Do you mind me messing with you're full pictures? Like I'd like to put lines in them with Photoshop.
Tyran wrote:I'm not sure how are you going to have the 10 spiders and RP 4+.
Hollismason is correct.
Canoptek Swarm for Scarabs with RP Decurion to make RP 4+
CAD for 9 additional Spyders
The list is posted somewhere earlier in this thread.
The tactic I've been using involves a Turn 2 charge with a Scarab unit 29 bases strong.
Hollismason wrote:
Do you mind me messing with you're full pictures? Like I'd like to put lines in them with Photoshop.
Photoshop away
I had thought about using colored tape to mark the table, but I did it in a rush before going to work, and I couldn't find any suitable tape.
Lol, that was my immediate thought as well plus with Deathmarks in you're army with a Destroyer Lord if he teleports troops in like the Grey Knights can you get to show up immediately and punk the DreadKnight.
Hollismason wrote: Lol, that was my immediate thought as well plus with Deathmarks in you're army with a Destroyer Lord if he teleports troops in like the Grey Knights can you get to show up immediately and punk the DreadKnight.
Grey Knights do not like Destroyers.
I mean, Destroyers themselves won't do much. Heavy Destroyers will, though. And I don't think the Deathmarks can come in when the Dreadknight shunts. It's not arriving from reserves, which is what triggers the Deathmarks.
3 dreadknight and of course with a 4++invuln save, he rolled lucky and I rolled badly I had a deathstar of DL and Obyron with a canoptek harvest, just managed 5 T6 wounds.
They care nothing for non AP2, its 12 2+ 4++ wounds, s10 ap2 good in combat resilient shooting platform and highly mobile
Well there's some definite work arounds, have you considered trying the Conclave of the Burning One formation with Nightbringer?
The formation that's the most difficult to break is Orikan w/ Decurion Wraiths , 3+ Reroll Ones . Do they have Eternal Warrior? Vacuum Wraiths may be a good idea, ST4 AP2 but roll a 6 they are gone if they fail the 4+.
My 2000 point Destroyer army ran for the first time yesterday, and it was against Grey Knights.
By the end of the game I had three Destroyers, seven Heavy Destroyers and two Doom Scythes left alive. The opponent only had a desperately jinking Stormraven.
Highlight of the match would be an extensive Heavy Gauss salvo evaporating the Paladin Squad from around Draigo, leaving him with one wound left, followed by two turns later an ordinary Destroyer removing that last wound from him in close combat.
Obyron gives you another Veil of Darkness and first turn deep strike with the Wraiths. Orikan gives the Wraiths who have a 3+ Invulnerable Reroll 1s on failed Saving throws. He also boosts their RP to 4+.
Obyron Also gives you the ability if you are worried about Mass Non AP2 fire to tank that fire with his 2+ rerollable save.
Orikan once empowered becomes a combat beast. The ability to Deep Strike Both units turn 1 into your opponents face with Wraiths that have Instant Death on 6s AP2 weaponry is pretty boss.
Both units have a small foot print as well. Well the Wraiths have less of a small footprint but still.
Why Wraiths over Lychguard? Lychguard are cheaper (especially with no overhead cost from the Harvest), and naturally have RP so you don't have to worry about teleporting away from the Spyder. Plus, they're smaller, and trade 1 attack for AP3, which is a nice trade imo.
Lychguard are a great unit, however lack of AP2 other than Obyron and Orikan harm the unit, they're also Offensively not as great as you would think, they're in fact pretty much ALL Defense.
Wraiths are both offense and defense. They're just over all better and have the ability to Vacuum up Monstrous Creatures when coming in on the Deep strike where as the Lychguard are just going to sit there doing nothing for a turn.
Sure the Lychguard are a fantastic unit however they do suffer from AP3 or Greater gives them only a 4+ invulnerable.
Don't get me wrong i like them I just think that the Orikan + Wraiths are better in every sense.
Also in later turns when Orikan is empowered you can in fact split them off to do their own thing and chase down a unit while Orikan goes and kicks the crap out of something with Obyron.
Hollismason wrote: Lychguard are a great unit, however lack of AP2 other than Obyron and Orikan harm the unit, they're also Offensively not as great as you would think, they're in fact pretty much ALL Defense.
Wraiths are both offense and defense. They're just over all better and have the ability to Vacuum up Monstrous Creatures when coming in on the Deep strike where as the Lychguard are just going to sit there doing nothing for a turn.
Sure the Lychguard are a fantastic unit however they do suffer from AP3 or Greater gives them only a 4+ invulnerable.
Don't get me wrong i like them I just think that the Orikan + Wraiths are better in every sense.
Also in later turns when Orikan is empowered you can in fact split them off to do their own thing and chase down a unit while Orikan goes and kicks the crap out of something with Obyron.
Well first, you either lack AP2 OR you're weak to AP3. If they have Warscythes, they have AP2. If they have Shields, they have 3++. You can't count both downsides of the choices.
Second, AP3 isn't a bad thing. There's only so much 2+ in the game unless you're strictly fighting Deathwing or Paladinspam GK. Even against GKs, AP3 ignores a good chunk of the infantry (PAGKs, Interceptors, Purifiers, Purgatorians). Meanwhile, Wraiths are only fishing for Rends. The point of having the Orikanstar Lychguard is that they tank like hell for him (only a 1/9 chance for a wound to go through), while he and any Warscythe ICs do all the real damage.
If they only ever get in combat with Dreadknights and Centstars then yeah, you'll wish you had rending. But against most other things in the game (including many GMCs and non-shield TWCs), they tear up actually better than Wraiths.
Yeah I was suggesting it because he seems to have a problem with Dreadknights so it's a good thing to have.
I think the Lychguard are great, but the fact is if you teleport them into your opponents field, unless you get right up on them. You're opponent is just going to run away. They only have a 6" move. Meanwhile Wraiths can actually chase down stuff with their 12" move which is Huge. People think that you are hampered by that 6" move but you're really not if you have Wraiths with you.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I was suggesting it because he seems to have a problem with Dreadknights so it's a good thing to have.
I think the Lychguard are great, but the fact is if you teleport them into your opponents field, unless you get right up on them. You're opponent is just going to run away. They only have a 6" move. Meanwhile Wraiths can actually chase down stuff with their 12" move which is Huge. People think that you are hampered by that 6" move but you're really not if you have Wraiths with you.
Well if you attach 2 ICs to them then yeah you're kinda hampered.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaq Draco lives wrote: who isnt regularly facing a 2+ mob regularly you must have a forgiving meta
What kind of mob couldn't Orikan and Obyron chew through? Once he goes Empowered, he has 4 attacks at WS5 S7 rerolling all hits, and Obyron is Obyron. Even a Dreadknight would pucker up at that. It doesn't matter how much damage the Lychguard do when you put out 7 AP2 attacks per turn alongside them.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I was suggesting it because he seems to have a problem with Dreadknights so it's a good thing to have.
I think the Lychguard are great, but the fact is if you teleport them into your opponents field, unless you get right up on them. You're opponent is just going to run away. They only have a 6" move. Meanwhile Wraiths can actually chase down stuff with their 12" move which is Huge. People think that you are hampered by that 6" move but you're really not if you have Wraiths with you.
Well if you attach 2 ICs to them then yeah you're kinda hampered.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaq Draco lives wrote: who isnt regularly facing a 2+ mob regularly you must have a forgiving meta
What kind of mob couldn't Orikan and Obyron chew through? Once he goes Empowered, he has 4 attacks at WS5 S7 rerolling all hits, and Obyron is Obyron. Even a Dreadknight would pucker up at that. It doesn't matter how much damage the Lychguard do when you put out 7 AP2 attacks per turn alongside them.
Literally just fought a game where that random empowerment which did not come off and can't possibly be relied upon until late in the game and my entire army was entirely neutered already.
You played this game before??? Relying on random empoerment is as good as saying just roll your saves dude....well done really
Hollismason wrote: The point of Orikan isn't to rely on his CC ability, the point of Orikan is he gives the unit a reroll 1s and +1 RP. The empowerment is just bonus.
Agreed, he is priced very well even without the empowered!
+1 to RP + Phase shifter + re-roll 1's on saves + Eternal warrior + AP2 re rolls to hit
Hollismason wrote: Yeah I was suggesting it because he seems to have a problem with Dreadknights so it's a good thing to have.
I think the Lychguard are great, but the fact is if you teleport them into your opponents field, unless you get right up on them. You're opponent is just going to run away. They only have a 6" move. Meanwhile Wraiths can actually chase down stuff with their 12" move which is Huge. People think that you are hampered by that 6" move but you're really not if you have Wraiths with you.
Well if you attach 2 ICs to them then yeah you're kinda hampered.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaq Draco lives wrote: who isnt regularly facing a 2+ mob regularly you must have a forgiving meta
What kind of mob couldn't Orikan and Obyron chew through? Once he goes Empowered, he has 4 attacks at WS5 S7 rerolling all hits, and Obyron is Obyron. Even a Dreadknight would pucker up at that. It doesn't matter how much damage the Lychguard do when you put out 7 AP2 attacks per turn alongside them.
Literally just fought a game where that random empowerment which did not come off and can't possibly be relied upon until late in the game and my entire army was entirely neutered already.
You played this game before??? Relying on random empoerment is as good as saying just roll your saves dude....well done really
Even without Empowered, he's still WS4 S4 rerolling all hits at AP2, which is good against anything that's not a MC. And even then is still fine against them.
Hollismason wrote: The point of Orikan isn't to rely on his CC ability, the point of Orikan is he gives the unit a reroll 1s and +1 RP. The empowerment is just bonus.
I am in love with that list, Hollismason. It looks VERY fun to field and I may take inspiration from it for my game tonight. If you don't mind of course, I'll have to drip the scythes for 1850, but everything else looks pretty gravy. Have you had any trouble on the conclave and the teks not having PS's? I'd be nervous it would get focus fired to death, but I guess it's still pretty durable with the 4+++. I've been putting my dlord in my FOs as well as a cryptek so they have solar staff, 4+++, res orb, and can tank wounds. I haven't even come close to losing that unit yet. It's my mini flayed star. Was wondering how that would compare with your take on putting the HQ's with wraiths instead.
I'm going to try out the Nightbringer on Monday, against a Daemon player. Seems decent enough, Daemons can't THAT much high strength firepower, and if he comes to me the 'bringer should hold up nicely against Princes and Greater Daemons.
Quick question though: Can the Gaze of Death be used against a swooping Prince?
Okapi wrote: I'm going to try out the Nightbringer on Monday, against a Daemon player. Seems decent enough, Daemons can't THAT much high strength firepower, and if he comes to me the 'bringer should hold up nicely against Princes and Greater Daemons.
Quick question though: Can the Gaze of Death be used against a swooping Prince?
First game with the new codex I tabled my friends Khorne and Tzeentch Daemons. And the Nightbringer went up against a Precogged and Grimoired Lord of Change and still won.
Kevcron wrote: I am in love with that list, Hollismason. It looks VERY fun to field and I may take inspiration from it for my game tonight. If you don't mind of course, I'll have to drip the scythes for 1850, but everything else looks pretty gravy. Have you had any trouble on the conclave and the teks not having PS's? I'd be nervous it would get focus fired to death, but I guess it's still pretty durable with the 4+++. I've been putting my dlord in my FOs as well as a cryptek so they have solar staff, 4+++, res orb, and can tank wounds. I haven't even come close to losing that unit yet. It's my mini flayed star. Was wondering how that would compare with your take on putting the HQ's with wraiths instead.
Crypteks don't have Res Orb. Against AP4 and higher the unit has a 4+ , 4++ . Against AP3 and Lower vs. Shooting it has a 5++ , 4++.
The Toughness of 8 goes a long way. Also , Solar Staff makes it very nearly impossible to kill with shooting when it deep strikes on turn 1 , as you basically tell your opponent to piss off with shooting you're going to have to charge it.
How my order goes..
I give RP to the Wraiths , then they teleport near something usually 8" away to avoid getting Mishapped. Really try avoid that. I then where ever i place them usually put the Conclave on the other side. I put the Flayed Ones front and center usually in the middle of the board or in the biggest cover piece on the table near my opponent and closer to the Conclave because no one wants to get counter charged by 19 Flayed Ones who will in fact demolish almost all non AVCC squads, because it's to many attacks. 19 Flayed ones have 95 attacks on the charge with reroll wounds. They'll kill most any dedicated CC unit in the game because it's to many wounds.
For 1850, I usually go with a smaller squad of Wraiths 5, then a smaller squad of Flayed Ones. I like to have at least 2 flyers so it's a sacrifice you have to make.
If I play against a Null Deployment or Drop Pod army. I always take the objectives with the 3 units.
Something to point out is that the Conclave has 6 ST5 Shots and the C'Tan powers plus the Nightbringers ability. I usually target Tanks or Independent Characters on their lonesome with the C'Tan because he's got a 1 out 6 chance to shoot them with a Destroyer weapon.
For 1850, I recommend just reducing the Flayed Ones and 1 Wraith. The Flayed Ones are really crucial as counter charge unit on the Conclave.
schadenfreude wrote: Painting is going slow and steady. Hopefully the FAQ about the spiders drops before I finish my flayed ones, wraiths, and first unit of tomb blades.
Anyhow here are my 2 initial 1,500 point lists.
Multi spiders no go 1,500 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields, particle
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones
Multi spiders go go 1,499 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields, gauss
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones
I'm assuming that the first list is a Decurion at 1500? I see no reason not to take the Decurion with either of these lists. I'm not a huge fan of 5 man Flayed one Squads because their not fearless. I think you could go with a full squad of 10, with the Decurion I'd go 5 man.
If you want to go for a three-spyders-is-valid-interpretation scarab farm, I'd go all in and make it the theme of the list. Something like:
HQ:
Cryptek, no equipment.
Troops:
Five Immortals,
Five Immortals.
Fast Attack:
Six Wraiths, five with Whip Coils.
Heavy Support:
Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,
Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,
Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,
Formations:
Canoptek Harvest:
Six Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers,
Eight Scarab Swarms,
Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers, one with a Gloom Prism.
Doombringer Flight:
Doom Scythe,
Doom Scythe.
Total: 2000 points.
Or something to that effect.
Basically make it so you have a 20 Scarab swarm turn one, keep growing it as your opponent tries to work out how to deal with that before it does a disordered charge on half of his entire army at once.
Mop up stragglers with the wraiths and monstrous creature swarm, flyers and heavy vehicles with the air support and hold objectives with the low target priority minimum troops.
Honestly with Adepticon ruling that you can have 1 Detachment 1 special Detachment that are all unique, I'll be really surprised if someone doesn't do a hellacious Scarab Farm.
Hollismason wrote: Honestly with Adepticon ruling that you can have 1 Detachment 1 special Detachment that are all unique, I'll be really surprised if someone doesn't do a hellacious Scarab Farm.
For the Championship you can actually have as many Detachments as you want, they're just each unique.
I think I might do a Decurion, actually.... there's just a lot of very durable units on the table. I don't particularly like losing ObSec, but I think it's fine overall since everything (including my Destroyer Cult, which I'm really leaning on) will be much more difficult to whittle down.
Oh yeah what are you going to end up taking? We know the Flyrant's are gonna be in demand as well as the whole Lictor Shame and the whole Scout thing, as that's how things go sometimes.
schadenfreude wrote: Painting is going slow and steady. Hopefully the FAQ about the spiders drops before I finish my flayed ones, wraiths, and first unit of tomb blades.
Anyhow here are my 2 initial 1,500 point lists.
Multi spiders no go 1,500 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields, particle
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones
Multi spiders go go 1,499 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields, gauss
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones
I'm assuming that the first list is a Decurion at 1500? I see no reason not to take the Decurion with either of these lists. I'm not a huge fan of 5 man Flayed one Squads because their not fearless. I think you could go with a full squad of 10, with the Decurion I'd go 5 man.
Yes both are decurion.
A lack of fearless actually hurts larger squads more. A leadership 6 test from being hammered by 4 wounds in cc is pretty meaningless to a 5 man squad because there is only 1 surviving FO left while a 15 man squad would have 11 FO at risk of being run down. The smaller squads are actually less vulnerable to cc beasts like a chapter master on a bike or wraith knight, the damage is limited to a 65 point unit.
Worth pointing out that if you're going to invest any sort of points into a large squad of FO, you're probably going to find a way to make them fearless for that exact reason.
It's not bad to have smaller squads - they will probably just have to deep strike more often than infiltrate due to first blood concerns.
Hollismason wrote: Oh yeah what are you going to end up taking? We know the Flyrant's are gonna be in demand as well as the whole Lictor Shame and the whole Scout thing, as that's how things go sometimes.
I'd highly recommend taking Tomb Blades.
Not sure yet. Logic tells me that having flyers is going to be valuable to deal with Flyrants and get some board control, but I kinda want to bring a foot list with lots of dudes instead. Still sticking to the Conclave and Cult for now.
It's for the Relentless and Move through Cover Special Rules, also you get to give the Reanimation Protocols for one turn. The buff the Spyder gives them for one turn is worth it plus you get a Scarab squad of 5 ( Poopin out 2 scarab bases from the Spyder).
Otherwise the unit doesn't have Relentless and cannot move and shoot Transdimensional Beamers.
Hollismason wrote: It's for the Relentless and Move through Cover Special Rules, also you get to give the Reanimation Protocols for one turn. The buff the Spyder gives them for one turn is worth it plus you get a Scarab squad of 5 ( Poopin out 2 scarab bases from the Spyder).
Otherwise the unit doesn't have Relentless and cannot move and shoot Transdimensional Beamers.
Move Through Cover is useless on everything in the formation, Relentless is only useful if you want the Beamers.
A reanimating Spyder is also a cheap and durable bodyguard for your Warriors, and you could always kit it out with a gloom prism and a particle beamer as well, to provide a bit of psychic defence and contribute in the shooting phase.
I see OK thanks guys. Just its a bit expensive and if you are throwing out a CTan Exterminatus Deathstar and a Wraithstar, I think its entirely possible you might want to trim the points for the sake of a some ancillary benefits.
I'm not a competitive player but I play with a good group so I' really trying to get it if you know what I mean so forgive my pedantism.
Personally I'm curious as to who wrote this codex. I know he has left, but a lot of the rules have a hint of Mat Ward to them.
Back on topic, how are people using Warscythe Lychguard? I appreciate that sword and board is far more resilient, but something about the warscythe makes me very happy (the fact that its a non unwieldy chainfist probably)
MonumentOfRibs wrote: Personally I'm curious as to who wrote this codex. I know he has left, but a lot of the rules have a hint of Mat Ward to them.
Back on topic, how are people using Warscythe Lychguard? I appreciate that sword and board is far more resilient, but something about the warscythe makes me very happy (the fact that its a non unwieldy chainfist probably)
Scythe Lychguard should definitely be in a Night Scythe, max size, with a Chronometron Cryptek, maybe with Solar Staff. Drop them an inch from the enemy, even something that moves 12" away will be within good charge range afterwards.
Of course, then you have to deal with reserves and Interceptor and stuff.
Requizen wrote: Scythe Lychguard should definitely be in a Night Scythe, max size, with a Chronometron Cryptek, maybe with Solar Staff. Drop them an inch from the enemy, even something that moves 12" away will be within good charge range afterwards.
Of course, then you have to deal with reserves and Interceptor and stuff.
As awesome as scythe guard sounds... 5-10 scythes...umm, yes, thank you, the huge problem it has is mobility and it's ability to reach it's ideal target before getting focused. Deployment via night scythe is the safest way to get it to it's pinpoint location but then you've just wasted 2+ turns getting into position, and that's in the best case scenario; one turn in reserves, one turn to deploy (and be shot at, likely) and only on turn 3, be able to assault. Congrats, you've arrived to a party that's half over.
You're probably better off deep striking them with a cryptek w/ veil and solar staff. Allows a turn 1 deepstrike (with a smaller footprint than doing similar with wraiths, and cheaper), solar staff protecting you from shooting during that pivotal time right before you get into assault to show then your beat sticks, and sets you up for a turn 2 assault. A unit of 10 w/ scythes and a cryptek w/ veil, solar staff run you 355 pts, still less than a knight and i;d wager the scythe guard would win.
Requizen wrote: Scythe Lychguard should definitely be in a Night Scythe, max size, with a Chronometron Cryptek, maybe with Solar Staff. Drop them an inch from the enemy, even something that moves 12" away will be within good charge range afterwards.
Of course, then you have to deal with reserves and Interceptor and stuff.
As awesome as scythe guard sounds... 5-10 scythes...umm, yes, thank you, the huge problem it has is mobility and it's ability to reach it's ideal target before getting focused. Deployment via night scythe is the safest way to get it to it's pinpoint location but then you've just wasted 2+ turns getting into position, and that's in the best case scenario; one turn in reserves, one turn to deploy (and be shot at, likely) and only on turn 3, be able to assault. Congrats, you've arrived to a party that's half over.
You're probably better off deep striking them with a cryptek w/ veil and solar staff. Allows a turn 1 deepstrike (with a smaller footprint than doing similar with wraiths, and cheaper), solar staff protecting you from shooting during that pivotal time right before you get into assault to show then your beat sticks, and sets you up for a turn 2 assault. A unit of 10 w/ scythes and a cryptek w/ veil, solar staff run you 355 pts, still less than a knight and i;d wager the scythe guard would win.
Using a Veil on anything is incredibly risky, especially when a Scythe is not only safer, but also a pretty good source of damage in and of itself.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Veil. It's incredibly useful tool for us. But 11 models is not a small footprint (not huge, but not small), and you end up clumped up with only a Run move to get you in the right position. Unless you're aiming to drop 1" away from the enemy (extremely poor decision for scattering deep strike), you're never going to get the amount of precision that you get from a Scythe. Especially for a non-shooting, slow unit such as the Lychguard.
You can't have the Veil and the Staff on the same character, so if you're teleporting you're using two of them.
With a Night Scythe, you can move 36+6+D6". Unless you're playing hammer and anvil and the mark is hiding in a far corner, there really is no getting away, especially as you can, in most cases, partially surround the unit.
Mmmm those are some very good points guys thank you. I suppose scythe guard appeal to me because my main opponent plays Orks, so a 3+ armour is as good as a 3+ invul against pretty much all of his shooting. We tend to play big point games. and he normally has a ghaz/MANz unit on the go, so a unit that cuts through their armour has high value to me.
I know its been explored a lot, but the Canoptek Harvest is insanely durable. Held up his Green Tide for 5 turns of combat. It was basically game over for him by the time the wraiths were dead
Hollismason wrote: Well I mean he does want to know how to use Lychguard.
I've used mine both ways, Sword and Board and Scythes.
For the Scythes, honestly I try and get as many Reanimation Orbs in there as possible then teleport in through use of Nightscythe.
It's a fun unit but I don't feel it's very strong. Now Orikan + Lychguard is a different story.
Orikan and Sword an Board Lychguard are just not going to get killed anytime soon.
For reference
The Math on Sword and Boards is insane.
3+ , Reroll 1s, then 4+ is a great than 90% avoidance on wounds I believe.
The Calculation should be
4/6 x 1/6 x 3/6
FWIW the rate of failure on 3++ re-rolling 1's is actually .16666 + .16666*.3333 = .222. Then multiply that by 3/6 to get .111, so it is around 90% save rate. Just a different way of getting there. And Orikan + ANY unit is pretty bonkers
Hollismason wrote: Well I mean he does want to know how to use Lychguard.
I've used mine both ways, Sword and Board and Scythes.
For the Scythes, honestly I try and get as many Reanimation Orbs in there as possible then teleport in through use of Nightscythe.
It's a fun unit but I don't feel it's very strong. Now Orikan + Lychguard is a different story.
Orikan and Sword an Board Lychguard are just not going to get killed anytime soon.
For reference
The Math on Sword and Boards is insane.
3+ , Reroll 1s, then 4+ is a great than 90% avoidance on wounds I believe.
The Calculation should be
4/6 x 1/6 x 3/6
Calculate failure instead.
1/6 chance of rolling a 1 followed by a 1/3=1/18 of failing the armor save on an initial roll of 1 then add1/6 of an initial armor save of 2=4/18 chance of failing the initial armor save. Goes down to 2/18 after rp for an even 1/9.
It works out to be the exact same as a 3+ reroll able.
300 points for the squad and a royal court with Orikan can easily bump the cost up to 600. That's a lot for a squad without hit and run.
All my IG would need to tar pit it would be a 4+ invulnerable. I would usually have 6 chances or 8 at 2k to roll that power. Once it goes off 35 conscripts with a priest Would hardcore tarpit it. 58% of the time their invulnerable would be reroll able. it would take about 110 wounds to drop them, 132 s5 or higher hits, or 198 attacks from that death star.
Nilok wrote: Good thing we have Flayed Ones to get rid of them.
5 flayed ones would chew them up as fast as 10 sword and board. A list is less likely to have Flayed ones to spare after blowing 600 on a death star.
Honestly, due to how point efficient Flayed Ones are in melee and how tough they can be due to RP, I don't think I've made a list that doesn't have at least one group of them.
They are both excellent at distracting the opponent by have them in the back field threatening his units, and chewing through anything T5 or lower (and sometimes higher). They probably had the biggest buff of anything I've seen except for Sion from League of Legends.
I've yet to not use them and see them make a decisive play. I think the only game I had a problem was when my friend was playing with Mawlocs, but I was still popping 4+s.
They are surprisingly durable the Decurion makes it even better and it Agravates my friends Dakka Flyrants.
Are you sure? 20 bases has a decent chance of popping an IK in one round on the charge. Even with stomps and battle cannons you'll be putting more bases on than they can kill.
Are you sure? 20 bases has a decent chance of popping an IK in one round on the charge. Even with stomps and battle cannons you'll be putting more bases on than they can kill.
The way you beat Knights is actually not to charge. You snuggle up with the IK and surround it and deny them their movement and assault move. The opponent is going to have a hard time getting the IK to earn its points if it only moves an inch a turn.
Are you sure? 20 bases has a decent chance of popping an IK in one round on the charge. Even with stomps and battle cannons you'll be putting more bases on than they can kill.
The way you beat Knights is actually not to charge. You snuggle up with the IK and surround it and deny them their movement and assault move. The opponent is going to have a hard time getting the IK to earn its points if it only moves an inch a turn.
IK then charges and it costs you 2 extra bases because of +1 attack and HoW.
The knight can still shoot something and then charge the scarabs.
Yeah, if the scarabs turn out not to have been adequate to kill the Knight, you've still trapped it for a while and stripped it down to normal vehicle numbers of hull points.
I don't know about the Scarabs V. Imperial Knight cause it does have 2 shots with the battle cannon which instant deaths them. So Not so sure that's a great play there.
So I've decided my tournament list won't feature a flyer. Even with the two Night Scythes I have, I won't be dropping Flyrants left and right, so I think it's better to focus on the ground game and surviving, using those 130-260 points on more Troops.
As before, my main core is a big Destroyer Cult (3 Heavies, 3x 2 normal + 1 Heavy) and a Conclave of the Burning One. I think having a lot of ObSec units that move up with them to hold objectives and just be bodies + more Rate of Fire is the proper option.
However, utilizing Flayed Ones, as you guys have said, is pretty solid. Relatively high damage output on anything other than vehicles/T8 (which is a lot of things) and Infiltrate/Outflank on the cheap is very good.
Still running the expensive Conclave, yes. I could put the Immortals into one unit of 10 instead of 2x5, but I think having more ground holding and ObSec units is more worthwhile. With 3+/5+++ and cover saves, they should be durable enough to not die immediately in most situations.
Alternatively, I could drop the Flayed Ones and put in 10 Tesla Immortals (or 2x5 Tesla Immortals) for even more firepower and ObSec, but then I lose pretty much any downfield presence other than maybe teleporting my Conclave.
I feel like the Flayed Ones can be used for both early game objective Infiltration and as charge deterrents for my Warriors/Immortals/Destroyers, but I also don't know if just having more shooting/ObSec bodies would be better overall.
I've also considered making this a Decurion, but I don't know if losing out on the mass ObSec is worth the durability, as I'm expecting to just hold objectives with this sort of list.
I think trading one unit of Flayed Ones for Tomb Blades and changing into a Decurion would be the best tweek. Upgrading everything in you current CAD and Cult to a 4+ RP is definitely worth it.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I think trading one unit of Flayed Ones for Tomb Blades and changing into a Decurion would be the best tweek. Upgrading everything in you current CAD and Cult to a 4+ RP is definitely worth it.
The only downside is that the way Adepticon rules it, each formation in the Decurion is unique, and that includes Flayed Ones and Deathmarks. So I would still have 10 Flayed Ones, but they would just be one unit of 10 rather than 2 units of 5. Which is still good, but I lose out on the ability to spread around and hold lots of objectives early on. Fairly well mitigated by the mobility of the Tomb Blades, however.
I asked on the Forums and they said that's how it works. I'll try to clarify Thursday morning with a TO and bring two printouts of my list, but I don't want to rock the boat.
A CAD would have to change the Immortals to one unit of 8 instead of 2x5, just because a flat Overlord is 30 points more than a flat Lord. So it would look like this:
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Solar Staff)
2 less units overall from the CAD version and loses ObSec, but gains 4+++ on everything, making the Destroyers and Immortals effectively 2+ against anything that's not AP3 or better.
Alternatively, I could drop the Flayed Ones to 8 and take 2x5 Immortals.
2000pt list I've been toying around with and having decent success so far
Reclamation Legion
Barge Lord with a gauntlet of flame
10 Warriors with a Ghost Ark
10 Warriors with a Ghost Ark
7 tesla Immortals
5 Tomb Blades, 4 with shield vane, 5 with partical beamer, 5 with scopes
Judicator Battalion
7 Praetorians with rods
7 Praetorians with voidblades/casters
1 Triach Stalker
zerosignal wrote: ObSec is fine and all that, but with no mobility, how are you going to get your obsec units across the battlefield?
The idea is to place all of my Objective markers in no man's land and not worry about getting into the enemy's DZ. When it comes to hunkering down on midfield objectives, Necrons do it best. If there are enemy objectives that they aren't claiming, I can Infiltrate the Flayed Ones to them and force them to respond, possibly killing things with said FOs.
However, the point is not without merit. I could drop one unit of Warriors and pick up a Fast Attack Night Scythe for use when necessary.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a quick comparison:
Would you rather have a flat Overlord with just Staff of Light and no upgrades with 10 Immortals - or 5 Immortals but trade your Overlord for Nemesor Zahndrekh?
zerosignal wrote: ObSec is fine and all that, but with no mobility, how are you going to get your obsec units across the battlefield?
I'm not honestly sure what you're referencing, but let's recap the mobility of a Necron army:
Night scythes. Can reach out and obsec any objective that is 45" or less from your table edge by dropping troops on it. Rough life
Any variety of units that can deep strike onto any objective on the table (flayed ones, destroyers, transcendent C'tan, praetorians, any unit with Obyron, any unit with a character that has the veil of darkness relic)
Ghost arks have a denial radius of roughly 25". Meaning they can secure an objective 25" away from them in any direction
Tomb blades can contest an objective that is less than 39" away
Catacomb Command Barges can contest any objective 33" or less away (IIRC, the fast skimmer can flat out 18)
Annihilation barges can contest any objective less than 21" away
Any number of popular models (wraiths, scarabs, praetorians, etc) can contest an objective that is 15-21" away, depending on the run move.
I mean, it's actually kind of ridiculous how mobile Necrons are
I changed it up a bit because of how long they are. If you're in between two objectives and the ark is lengthwise, you actually get a contest diameter of 61" due to its 9+" length. I turned that into a 3" addition on either side since you can't really assume that it will be in an ideal situation like that but that's still probably a little optimistic, and at least a little bit confusing. My point was that it's range is extended in multiple directions due to just how long it actually is
I've never had any issue with claiming or contesting objectives, but then I started bringing Tomb Blades w/ ignore cover.
I've come to the realization that anyone who puts Nightscythes in their army for Anti-Air is a crazy person, there's nothing 2 Nightscythes can really do to 3 to 5 FMCS so why try.
Ok, that's it. I'm remodelling my tomb blades with gauss blasters, the particle beamers aren't working for me at all. I've played them in five-ish games since the codex was released, and every time I've been annoyed about how long those blast take to shoot, and most of the time getting the same number of hits (or fewer) than I would've with twin-linked gauss.
MLKTH wrote: Ok, that's it. I'm remodelling my tomb blades with gauss blasters, the particle beamers aren't working for me at all. I've played them in five-ish games since the codex was released, and every time I've been annoyed about how long those blast take to shoot, and most of the time getting the same number of hits (or fewer) than I would've with twin-linked gauss.
Yup yup, I love my Gauss Blasters. Ignores Cover AP4, good number of shots, and kills vehicles.
In rapid fire range a max squad of tomb blades have around a 50% chance to wreck any 3hp vehicle that doesn't have an invuln. Too good to pass up. The blasts are very situational, especially because they can't snapfire.
MLKTH wrote: Ok, that's it. I'm remodelling my tomb blades with gauss blasters, the particle beamers aren't working for me at all. I've played them in five-ish games since the codex was released, and every time I've been annoyed about how long those blast take to shoot, and most of the time getting the same number of hits (or fewer) than I would've with twin-linked gauss.
Yeah, the only situations I'd consider blasts better is against horde armies with massed 5+ saves, where you can rapidly clear large portions of the chaff with a huge mass of 2+ to kill wounds... Removing chaff tactics and letting you focus on the bigger threats.
Or possibly against a zero-vehicle marine army. Ignoring cover won't help you there, and none of the weapons can pierce armour anyhow so it might be handy to be able to place reliable wounds instead.
Hollismason wrote: I've come to the realization that anyone who puts Nightscythes in their army for Anti-Air is a crazy person, there's nothing 2 Nightscythes can really do to 3 to 5 FMCS so why try.
There are 3 of them in my collection and they have yet to hit the table since the new Codex dropped.
Unless you need to drop a Deathstar somewhere, I just can't justify the points. If your opponent is loaded up with anti-air they can frag them, and if they have no anti-air they can just basically ignore them.
Hollismason wrote: I've come to the realization that anyone who puts Nightscythes in their army for Anti-Air is a crazy person, there's nothing 2 Nightscythes can really do to 3 to 5 FMCS so why try.
There are 3 of them in my collection and they have yet to hit the table since the new Codex dropped.
Unless you need to drop a Deathstar somewhere, I just can't justify the points. If your opponent is loaded up with anti-air they can frag them, and if they have no anti-air they can just basically ignore them.
I've come to agree with the this assessment as well. Nightscythes are still great against enemy flyers but against FMCs they are gak. If the meta moves back to flyer heavy armies I'll brimg them back but for now I'm relying on massed ground fire to do my dirty work.
Hollismason wrote: I've come to the realization that anyone who puts Nightscythes in their army for Anti-Air is a crazy person, there's nothing 2 Nightscythes can really do to 3 to 5 FMCS so why try.
There are 3 of them in my collection and they have yet to hit the table since the new Codex dropped.
Unless you need to drop a Deathstar somewhere, I just can't justify the points. If your opponent is loaded up with anti-air they can frag them, and if they have no anti-air they can just basically ignore them.
This is good to hear. My tactic has always been to ignore flyers and as a very new necron player, I was unsure if I should buy a couple of Nightscythes. Dakka just saved me about 100 dollars.
My only pain about leaving out Night Scythes (which I've started doing) is that, on a whole, we're a fairly immobile army. Tomb Blades, CCBs, and Wraiths are our speedsters, but the bulk of our forces don't have a good alternative for getting across the board, other than Ghost Arks (which I'm still not a huge fan of).
Just use your durability to brute force an expanding bubble of board control.
Our transports are yes, pretty terrible as actual transports despite being good vehicles, but between a range of quick support models, survivability and (if you're doing a Decurion) move through cover it's pretty solid in that respect.
The only units I'd say actually seriously struggle for mobility are Lychguard and C'tan, but both are good candidates for using a turn one deep strike to mitigate.
Maybe Spyders as well, but they're cheap for what they do and can take a good gun, so I'm less bothered there.
It's not even that though , it's I'd rather go with Mass Volume of Fire from normal Warriors at a Non-FMC Vehicle Flyer than take 2 Nightscythes.
Sure 1 Night Scythe is fine and it's a good transport but I've just been BLah about it and stopped relying on them and just taking Warriors in Ghost Arks which are insanely durable.
Requizen wrote: My only pain about leaving out Night Scythes (which I've started doing) is that, on a whole, we're a fairly immobile army. Tomb Blades, CCBs, and Wraiths are our speedsters, but the bulk of our forces don't have a good alternative for getting across the board, other than Ghost Arks (which I'm still not a huge fan of).
I have units of Scarabs, Wraiths, Paretoreans, and Tomb Blades zipping across the board while my foot sloggers tie up the midfield.
Sure, it would be great for Necrons to have something cheap like a Rhino, but we don't
In reference to not taking night scythes, I know it was speaking for anti air, but I was thinking about trying them out in the judicator. The praetorians can take them as dedicated transports, and I don't care if they can ride in them or not, I would be taking them as they become part of the unit and benefit from the triarch stalkers given ability to reroll hit/wound/armor pen against whatever it is looking at. Does that make them useful and worth taking? I haven't tried it yet but I was considering it
Hollismason wrote: I've been using the Decurion with no Nightscythes taken at all and just large 15 man units of Warriors and a 10 man unit of Immortals.
40 Models with 4+ Save and 10 that have a 3+ 4++ is incredibly durable.
Aye, I've been playing a slogging Decurion and its been giving my opponents fits. I'm gonna put that aside and play against a Decurion soon and I'm interested on being on the other side of it.
Yeah that's definitely a strong base Hollismason. But since the night Scythe also averages over 4 strength 7 hits per round, it's going to do serious work against enemy flyers. I've had multiple times where I've gotten 8 hits in a single phase. Take that, storm guppie! Even a FMC with a 3+ save will have issues taking 5/6 wounds they need to save.
That plus the extreme mobility of the drop (and pick up for tournaments that allow it) is a serious boon
luke1705 wrote: Yeah that's definitely a strong base Hollismason. But since the night Scythe also averages over 4 strength 7 hits per round, it's going to do serious work against enemy flyers.
For how many rounds ?
ROUND 1: Off the board
ROUND 2: Off the board or Maybe in Range
ROUND 3: Usually where you want it
ROUND 4: Make a turn and hope there is something to shoot at
ROUND 5: Make a turn and hope there is something to shoot at
or if you luck on reserve rolls is something like mine
ROUND 1: Off the board
ROUND 2: Off the board
ROUND 3: Off the board or Maybe in Range
ROUND 4: Usually where you want it
ROUND 5: Make a turn and hope there is something to shoot at, get shot in rear armor and blow up
Hollismason wrote: I'd rather take the Doom Scythe now, 30 points more for a ST10 Blast on arrival isn't to shabby.
I love what they changed the Death ray too, though it's debut did absolutely nothing but get shot off the board by Vendettas. Hmph. But yeah, footslogging crons are very strong now for some reason. They just don't seem to die.
Man, that took a while to get through (decided I'd read the entire thread before I commented on anything).
Anyway, list of combos seems to be pretty healthy:
• Destroyers + Stalker to make effective BS10 shooting
• 9+1 Spyders + Harvest Scarabs to make an RP'ing Scarab Farm
• Destroyer Lord + Wraiths (Coils or T.Beamers)/Praetorians (VB)/Deathmarks to exploit PE and make sure good things happen on 6s
• Orikan + Lychguard (Shield) to make a never die unit
• Conclave with Nightbringer to make a barrel of fireworks dropped at your opponent's front door
Were there any others?
Additionally, I'm trying to figure out some way to exploit the Tachyon Arrow. A 120" S10 AP1 shot is no joke, especially on a something with BS5. Pretty good chance you could take out your opponent's vehicle on the first turn. Thing is, I'm trying to figure out some way to grant it a reroll on the off chance you roll a 1. If it were possible to equip it on a Destroyer Lord then problem solved! But they can't take ranged weapons, so that's out. Is there some way to give that all important single shot a reroll?
Also trying to figure out some way to grant relentless to non-harvest Wraiths to let them use T.Beamers after turn one veil-teleport deepstriking. The Implacable Conqueror warlord trait would accomplish this, but the only HQ that comes with it naturally is Anrakyr, who kinda sucks... unless there's some way to have him not suck?
Actually yeah for the Tachyon Arrow you can attach the independent character with the Tachyon Arrow to a Destroyer Cult Squad and it'd reroll to 1s to hit and to wounds because of their rule. The problem is you're paying a lot to do that.
It's expensive though. I dunno why you'd do it. Or you could just take Szeras and attach him to the squad so he has a Lance that rerolls 1s to hit and rerolls Armour penetration.
Hollismason wrote: Actually yeah for the Tachyon Arrow you can attach the independent character with the Tachyon Arrow to a Destroyer Cult Squad and it'd reroll to 1s to hit and to wounds because of their rule. The problem is you're paying a lot to do that.
It's expensive though. I dunno why you'd do it. Or you could just take Szeras and attach him to the squad so he has a Lance that rerolls 1s to hit and rerolls Armour penetration.
... ICs attached to units with PE will gain that rule?
If so, an Overlord with the Arrow attached to Heavy Destroyers who are sitting next to a Stalker is kind of ridiculous.
But yes, perhaps Szeras wouldn't be a bad alternative for the above group. Shorter reach and less strength, but you get more than one shot (quality versus quantity).
On the plus side, if these are non-Decurion HDs, the +1 he grants to their RP would be dearly appreciated.
Still trying to figure out how to make non-Harvest relentless T.Beamer-Wraiths...
Hollismason wrote: Yes it transfers so does the units reroll. Szeras is actually better at popping armour and getting pens because he has ST8 vs 12 with a reroll.
I looked I can't figure out a way to do it with out taking decurion.
Why wouldn't you be able to do it without a Decurion? Szeras or Lord/Overlord leading a CAD + Destroyer Cult does the same thing.
Taking the dedicated night scythes for praetorians in the judicator is pretty clever. you cant have a different unit deploy out of them though right? I like that the tesla destructor wouldnt mind shooting at the preferred target of the stalker(s) or the praetorians.
Hollismason wrote: Yes it transfers so does the units reroll. Szeras is actually better at popping armour and getting pens because he has ST8 vs 12 with a reroll.
I looked I can't figure out a way to do it with out taking decurion.
Why wouldn't you be able to do it without a Decurion? Szeras or Lord/Overlord leading a CAD + Destroyer Cult does the same thing.
This was a answer to his question regarding Wraiths with Relentless, other than a special character or Warlord Trait you can't seem to give Wraiths Relentless.
Riptides are pretty vulnerable to leadership stuff, Conclave of the Burning One w/ Nightbringer has it's number. Crisis suit units in general are vulnerable to the Nightbringers ability.
I'm just trying to make an MC killing unit for relatively cheap.
Yeah, I could use Deathmarks + Destroyer Lord, but I was hoping to do something with Wraiths so they'd be more versatile once they took out whatever they were gunning for.
Flayed ones basically won me a 400 point tournament last night. Maybe just because they're plain hard to take down at that point level, maybe because Infiltrating 4+ with RP Assault monstrosities is insanely good. Either way, I'll be making more of them in the very near future.
3 units of 20 in a Decurion with attached Chronometron Crypteks for always 4+ RP and 5++ against shooting would make a hilarious army.
Before you go crazy with the Crypteks remember that hte Crypteks cannot join them for normal deployment , so you'll have to infiltrate them near each individual Cryptek which can be annoying.
I don't think Crypteks in a Decurion are that great. Sure you get instant death 4+ RP, but you normally will get 4+ RP anyhow.
If I was going to go Cryptek crazy, I would take a huge royal court with cheap lords and crypteks. Give each lord a res orb and each Cryptek a Chronometron. Outside of the Decurion, you can have obsec blobs that are literally impossible to shift.
4+ or 5++ followed by a 4+, then another 4+ when you pop the res orb. Or you can do immortals for the native 3+ if you'd like.
Doing the math on regular warriors from say a Flyrant:
(Ball-parking it since I don't feel like counting exactly right now):
11 hits, 9 wounds, 4.5 unsaved, 2.25 failed RP. Pop the res orb and only a single warrior dies. Did you tank some wounds on your lord, who maybe had a nightmare shroud, or at least a 3+ and had multiple wounds? Maybe you lost literally no one.
Even if you lost 2 guys because you decided not to pop the res orb, it will take the Flyrant a ridiculous amount of turns to shift the Warriors from the objective. You basically need to assault and sweep them or just give up.
The silver tide is real. Don't forget your ghost arks
You can actually make blocks of Warriors almost impossible to kill with shooting using the Royal Court in a Decurion if that's what you're going for by investing in Crypteks and Lords w/ Res Orb. Personally I'd just go with the Lords w/ Res Orb but if you want to get crazy.
Over Lord w/ Res Orb , Phase Shifter War Scythe
20 Warriors
20 Warriors
5 Immortals
3 Tomb Blades
Royal Court
Overlord w/ Res Orb , Warscythe , Phase Shifter
Lord w/ Res Orb w/ Warscythe
Lord w/ Res Orb w/ Warscythe
Cryptek with Chrono Metron
Crpytek w/ Chrono Metron
Each unit of Warriors is
20 Warriors (230)
Over Lord w/ that Gear ( 155)
Lord w/ that Gear (95)
Cryptek w/ that Gear ( 90)
So it's 570 a unit of that has 2 Warscythes, 5 + , followed by a 4+ , followed by a 4+ Twice per game , and if in the Overlord unit reroll 1s.
Finish the army off with 2 units of Immortals in Nightscythes and as many Tomb Blades as you can get.
A res orb in anything other than a close combat deathstar strikes me as a massive waste of points. We have plenty of reliable sources of durability without needing to resort to expensive one shot items.
Yes, it's been well established that Necrons are now super durable.
What we're lacking is punch.
So a Flyrant can shoot at us and we can shrug it off. We also can't do much back to him.
Then something else comes along and assaults that unit that has 500 points invested in it. They're not fearless, so woops, now they're gone.
Sorry,
I just think we need to get off the durability subject and look at the weaknesses.
skoffs wrote: Yes, it's been well established that Necrons are now super durable.
What we're lacking is punch.
So a Flyrant can shoot at us and we can shrug it off. We also can't do much back to him.
Then something else comes along and assaults that unit that has 500 points invested in it. They're not fearless, so woops, now they're gone.
Sorry,
I just think we need to get off the durability subject and look at the weaknesses.
We have ways to fight back against being swept. Like, Resurrection Orbs, and having a 4+++ across the board. IF you have 500 points sunk into a unit, I would probably make sure that they have a res orb, and depending on the unit, they'd probably be rather killy anyway, so wouldn't lose combat by much, if at all. Plus, we still have Night Scythes. They will still mess with Flyrants and Daemon Princes and Hive Crones.
Yeah just again, that's just a fun thing to do is make a big super blobby unkillable versus shooting Necron Warrior unit.
I'm not saying it's super competitive just a fun unit to play similar to 10 Deathmarks and a Destroyer lord. Probably may not be the most super uber competitive but it's incredibly fun.
I have actually been using my Deathmarks more as a 2 Destroyer Lord then 1 Death mark and 1 Flayed One is really fun.
I have a bit of a theory that the idea Necrons lack punch comes from the tournament builds of last edition, which centered around tesla destructor spam.
Outside of that niche, I've never had any trouble reliably destroying the vast majority of a foe's army, win or lose.
changemod wrote: I have a bit of a theory that the idea Necrons lack punch comes from the tournament builds of last edition, which centered around tesla destructor spam.
Outside of that niche, I've never had any trouble reliably destroying the vast majority of a foe's army, win or lose.
That's exactly the point I've been trying to prove to people. I've still been killing people just as easily as before, albeit only using A-barges once so far (I find the Annihilation Nexus rather meh). Everyone says we've lost firepower, or lack punch, but we have good melee options now, still spammable S5 shooting that can kill land raiders, Ghost arks fire more shots now, Night Scythes are still good, and then on top of that, Praetorians became good (Very good melee, and also packing S2 AP2 shooting, or a bunch of S6 shooting), Destroyers are awesome now, having shooty Overlords are a viable option now, Imotekh's staff is a god-send, and if you want a ton of Tesla, we still have A-barges (Which can bring a S10 AP1 Primary Weapon platform with them), and if you really want to capitalize on Tesla, an Obelisk is cheaper than 3 A-barges now, and is faster and more durable.
I have been using the Annihilation Nexus in games as well since I have barges and I want to use them, I'm not really disappointed with it at all. It gives a nice punch up.
Hollismason wrote: I have been using the Annihilation Nexus in games as well since I have barges and I want to use them, I'm not really disappointed with it at all. It gives a nice punch up.
My gripe is the cost of them, they're heavy support, and bring measly 24" AP- guns. And it's second gun is borderline useless. And the Doomsday Ark just doesn't like to perform well for me.
changemod wrote: I have a bit of a theory that the idea Necrons lack punch comes from the tournament builds of last edition, which centered around tesla destructor spam.
Outside of that niche, I've never had any trouble reliably destroying the vast majority of a foe's army, win or lose.
That's exactly the point I've been trying to prove to people. I've still been killing people just as easily as before, albeit only using A-barges once so far (I find the Annihilation Nexus rather meh). Everyone says we've lost firepower, or lack punch, but we have good melee options now, still spammable S5 shooting that can kill land raiders, Ghost arks fire more shots now, Night Scythes are still good, and then on top of that, Praetorians became good (Very good melee, and also packing S2 AP2 shooting, or a bunch of S6 shooting), Destroyers are awesome now, having shooty Overlords are a viable option now, Imotekh's staff is a god-send, and if you want a ton of Tesla, we still have A-barges (Which can bring a S10 AP1 Primary Weapon platform with them), and if you really want to capitalize on Tesla, an Obelisk is cheaper than 3 A-barges now, and is faster and more durable.
We have plenty of punch...
Not even just that: The Tesla Destructor Spam setup was terrible for attempting to table a foe. Volume of S7 hits on durable, underpriced platforms that can hit flyers and minimum objective seizing units excel at winning missions and are even okay at scoring more kill points than are given away, but without truly massed gunlines or any AP worth speaking of they give a warped perspective on how reliably the codex can bring an opponent to the brink of annihilation.
I'm running Wraithwing CAD+Harvest: For MC and DPs etc., I rely on scarabs. lots and lots of scarabs.
I basically rely on them for everything killier than my wraiths. Problem arises when there are too many tough targets for three wraith units and two scarab units to assault reliably. But so far so good.
Any valuable insights on stock crypts vs. stock lords for min/maxing purposes?
From what I've seen, doomsday cannons are awesome.
S10 AP1 is plenty of pain. Yeah, you can't move and fire, but think about where you're placing objectives.
Force your opponent to either leave an objective alone, or stand in the open in the path of a S10 AP1 pie plate.
You should be able to line up an objective that your opponent placed with an objective you place. That lets 1 doomsday cover at least 2 objectives.
HawaiiMatt wrote: From what I've seen, doomsday cannons are awesome.
S10 AP1 is plenty of pain. Yeah, you can't move and fire, but think about where you're placing objectives.
Force your opponent to either leave an objective alone, or stand in the open in the path of a S10 AP1 pie plate.
You should be able to line up an objective that your opponent placed with an objective you place. That lets 1 doomsday cover at least 2 objectives.
I just don't like the tax of bringing two a-barges to bring a doomsday ark in the Decurion. >.>
Orikan the Diviner now does everything I used to use an Overlord for better than the Overlord used to do it, and I still haven’t found a new niche to use Overlords in.
Nightbringer, with the god shackle and two crypteks. Love the model can see his strenghts but kinda want some clarification.
So I guess I don't see it in some ways, is he a shooting draw, is he to charge or to shoot?
I'm thinking if I have a couple of units of wraiths, god shackle formation and some ABs I'm thinking unit synergy what can the god shackle normally accomplish.
I'm the fella who recently faced 3 dreadnights, could he have taken on one of them?
The Nightbringer is hands down the best MC hunter in the game. Undeniable psychic shriek , can be used in CC. Then AP2 fleshbane with 4 attack. 4+ invuln and eternal warrior.
His only problem is speed. If you try to chase one of the dreadknights you won't get it, but if it comes near you it dies. Watch out for bolter though, C'tan are vulnerable to small arms fire.
Yeah T8 with a 4+ invuln is crazy good shame he can't get Reanimation lol.
Of course you have an extra two wounds on top with his cryptek buddies at T8 in the formation making 6 wounds, the more I hear about it the more I like it!
The God Shackle is an item you can take from the Mephrit Dynasty - Relics of the War in Heaven, which is sourced from the 'Shield of Baal: Exterminatus' book (mostly blood angels stuff, but there are a few pages of necron things).
Only a cryptek can equip the item. The item gives + 1S and +1T to a c'tan shard you choose and only for as long as the cryptek carrying the item is alive.
Jaq Draco lives wrote: Yeah T8 with a 4+ invuln is crazy good shame he can't get Reanimation lol.
Of course you have an extra two wounds on top with his cryptek buddies at T8 in the formation making 6 wounds, the more I hear about it the more I like it!
8 wounds. Crypteks have two wounds each.
Oh, and effectively adding a 12 inch assault 6 AP3 gun, which is good because you're going to be turn one deep striking it for maximum chaos.
Ok I'm convinced that I do really need to try out the God Shackle formation, but I don't know what to drop. Need 235 points gone to get the two crypteks in there.
I'm thinking the ideal Cryptek load outs are:
Cryptek 1: God Shackle, Solar Staff, Phase Shifter - 125
Cryptek 2: Veil of Darkness, Phase Shifter - 110
I know that I could kill 25 points to get them on a 5++ vs shooting only but I don't feel that's worth it. So my list that has been working excellently:
Orikan
Destroyer Lord w/Nightmare Shroud, Phase Shifter, Res Orb, Warscythe, Phylactery
Obviously the phylactery and fighter ace are unnecessary, so that's 50 points right there. Dropping the ghost ark and turning those guys into just immortals would net me another 150, but I'm still 35 short....I guess dropping a single wraith would probably do it....I don't know if it's better to have the conclave or the obsec GA and another wraith though.
Tyran wrote: Why would you want the chronometron when you already have phase shifters?
He'll just not have been thinking clearly.
Seriously though, is there a serious role for vanilla custom Overlords outside a Decurion? Because I'm just not seeing one a different HQ can't do better.
Tyran wrote: Why would you want the chronometron when you already have phase shifters?
He'll just not have been thinking clearly.
Seriously though, is there a serious role for vanilla custom Overlords outside a Decurion? Because I'm just not seeing one a different HQ can't do better.
Running one with a warscythe or voidreaper in a unit of lychguard to take down an MC or knight?
Sorry if I was unclear. I meant that I could save 25 points on the crypteks by running a single chronomeron instead of the two phase shifters, but I don't think it's worth it. Maybe it that was the difference between getting another wraith in there or not
Tyran wrote: Why would you want the chronometron when you already have phase shifters?
He'll just not have been thinking clearly.
Seriously though, is there a serious role for vanilla custom Overlords outside a Decurion? Because I'm just not seeing one a different HQ can't do better.
Running one with a warscythe or voidreaper in a unit of lychguard to take down an MC or knight?
Honestly though I'd just take Orikan with Lychguard. Buffs either variety and is only a little weaker in person before his ancient spirits of evil schtick kicks in. Cheaper than fully kitting an Overlord too.
I have been taking Voidreaper on Destroyer Lords though.
I've got a feeling that it would munch an IK as if they don't get the charge its 3 attacks and only a possible D. Wounding on 2s but you've got the 4+ invuln and the 6+ feel no pain.
Yeah you should watch out for Imperial Knights , you do however have a 1/6 chance to get that Strength D shot, then another 1/6 to kill it outright maybe.
Doesn't have armorbane though - only fleshbane. Sadly you can't take a warscythe on a Cryptek. Anyone toyed around with making a super royal court of sorts? Throw in some IC with the Nightbringer conclave, put a nightmare shroud on somebody, maybe throw Orikan in there....whole squad is T8 no matter what if I'm reading it correctly
How are people using Zandrekhs warlord traits?? Looking through the BRB, I see few that are applicable ( the majority are first turn only) . Re-rolling 1's for a turn of shooting is brutal I will give him that.
MonumentOfRibs wrote: How are people using Zandrekhs warlord traits?? Looking through the BRB, I see few that are applicable ( the majority are first turn only) . Re-rolling 1's for a turn of shooting is brutal I will give him that.
About half the tactical ones are useful to get VPs in maelstrom, both re-roll 1 traits from command are awesome, and from personal traits he can give himself fearless and IWND, making his unit unable to be swept.
Also remember he can keep a trait for as many subsequent turns as he wants, the only restriction is he can't go back to one that he previously discarded.
It sounds unkillable - what do you have to watch out for? Just massed fire I'm guessing.
S8 will ID the crypeks despite only wounding on 4s, so you need to keep the C'Tan nearest to heavy firepower. A vindicare could be a decent counter so watch out for them, because it could kill the shackle tek in one shot.
MonumentOfRibs wrote: How are people using Zandrekhs warlord traits?? Looking through the BRB, I see few that are applicable ( the majority are first turn only) . Re-rolling 1's for a turn of shooting is brutal I will give him that.
About half the tactical ones are useful to get VPs in maelstrom, both re-roll 1 traits from command are awesome, and from personal traits he can give himself fearless and IWND, making his unit unable to be swept.
Also remember he can keep a trait for as many subsequent turns as he wants, the only restriction is he can't go back to one that he previously discarded.
It sounds unkillable - what do you have to watch out for? Just massed fire I'm guessing.
S8 will ID the crypeks despite only wounding on 4s, so you need to keep the C'Tan nearest to heavy firepower. A vindicare could be a decent counter so watch out for them, because it could kill the shackle tek in one shot.
The crypteks use the C'tan's toughness in all cases.
S8 will ID the crypeks despite only wounding on 4s, so you need to keep the C'Tan nearest to heavy firepower. A vindicare could be a decent counter so watch out for them, because it could kill the shackle tek in one shot.
The crypteks use the C'tan's toughness in all cases.
Incorrect, it is only when rolling to wound.
the opposing player must always use the C'tan Shard's Toughness when rolling To Wound models in this Formation.
Since this is limited to only wounding, resolving S8 wounds against a Cryptek would still cause ID. On the other hand, since there is two Crypteks, they would still have a 4+ RP, so not totally left out to dry.
Right so yes be very careful about the vindicare, and also I'll have to be careful about s8-10 blasts as well, fortunately you can Look Out Sir on a 2+ for the vindicator blasts etc.
You can often avoid line of sight on the vindicare which is cool. Or better yet take the Thermasite which only allows snap shots turn one.
Knights have a 2 shot s8 blast so they'd be troublesome too.
DaKKaLAnce wrote: How would you guys recommend playing against tau as necrons? I feel like Tau would not be such a bad match up for necrons.
Tau are rather tame in 7th edition, honestly. Bring some tarpit units for the Riptides (Because we all know they'll have multiple) and whatever you can't tarpit, just ignore. Then use your Tomb Blades to pick out their Fire Warriors and Pathfinders with markerlights. Pretty easy.
Thankfully enough, they don't have a whole lot of AP3 weaponry outside of things like Plasma/Melta suits and Riptides. Immortals, Tomb Blades (with Shield Vanes), Destroyers, Lords, etc, will basically never die.
Actually, that's a pretty good way to deal with nearly any army in the game at the moment. Put as much 3+ saves on the table as you can and ignore all the fire with RP, especially in a Decurion. We're the hardest army in the game to remove from the tabletop, with our 17 point Immortals being basically tougher than Terminators in the Decurion.
My first game in about 15 years was against Tau, and so I didn't have any of the fancy new troops yet. He did not at all enjoy getting hit with destroyers. In the end, I had to get out of my old school thought of "Necrons should avoid CC at all costs" since Tau are even worse at it. Once you tarpit Tau they're next to useless, so even charging with a unit of 3 destroyers ended up being a smart move.
Haha yeah Tau are full of fail in CC, ironically except for the riptide when it doesn't want to die. Charging them is almost always a good idea (and you have to remember that Crons have a lot of viable CC options)
So I bought a Tomb Stalker off of Forgeworld. It seems to be the best option of the current Forgeworld Necron models:
-Acanthrites are pretty bad now that Wraiths bumped up to T5, which was kind of the only thing they had going for them.
-Tesseract Ark got screwed over by Quantum Shielding rules and was also pretty expensive for what it was
-Nightshroud is cool, but expensive and I think outclassed by book options
-Sentry Pylons are pretty darn expensive, and the cheapest option (Gauss) got messed up by the change to Skyfire/Interceptor
-Tomb Sentinel feels really gimmicky to me. Compared to the Stalker, trades close combat power for a gun that is mostly meh but occasionally will snipe off a couple things. Doesn't seem to be worth the points as much as the killy Stalker.
I think Assaultcrons are going to be a thing now. Flayed Ones are really really good, Wraiths are amazing per usual, Orikanstar is mad durable and kills things pretty well, Nightbringer is making the rounds as really strong (especially as part of a Conclave), so I think having an Outflanking MC with Acute Senses and 4 attacks + Rampage is quite a good addition to that.
Requizen wrote: So I bought a Tomb Stalker off of Forgeworld. It seems to be the best option of the current Forgeworld Necron models:
-Acanthrites are pretty bad now that Wraiths bumped up to T5, which was kind of the only thing they had going for them.
-Tesseract Ark got screwed over by Quantum Shielding rules and was also pretty expensive for what it was
-Nightshroud is cool, but expensive and I think outclassed by book options
-Sentry Pylons are pretty darn expensive, and the cheapest option (Gauss) got messed up by the change to Skyfire/Interceptor
-Tomb Sentinel feels really gimmicky to me. Compared to the Stalker, trades close combat power for a gun that is mostly meh but occasionally will snipe off a couple things. Doesn't seem to be worth the points as much as the killy Stalker.
I think Assaultcrons are going to be a thing now. Flayed Ones are really really good, Wraiths are amazing per usual, Orikanstar is mad durable and kills things pretty well, Nightbringer is making the rounds as really strong (especially as part of a Conclave), so I think having an Outflanking MC with Acute Senses and 4 attacks + Rampage is quite a good addition to that.
I mean, I've actually been so much more into 40k lately I've thought of ordering Forgeworld stuff, specifically the Sentinel. But only after the book gets updated. You can't go by current rules, as a lot of them don't fit well now. But, if the Sentinel's gun turns into what the Transdimensional Beamer does, I will certainly get one. S4 AP2 blast with ID and auto-pens on 6s? Yes please....
The only FW models that is confusing with rules changes is the Tesseract Ark with QS changing from "+2 AV" to "AV set to 13". Everything else works fine in the context of the current edition, other than maybe the Gloom Prism on the Stalker/Sentinel using the old wording.
Acanthrites still work fine, but now they're just severely outclassed by Wraiths, especially Wraiths with Beamers in the Harvest.
The Sentinel's gun is still a small blast that forces STR tests or removal from the board (no saves allowed of any kind), or an Auto-Pen on Vehicles/Buildings. I don't know if that will change to match the Transdimensional Beamer now, but it might.
For the Stalker, the only thing I could see changing is the Gloom Prism changing to match the current one (I won't be using it anyway) and maybe points changes.
Acanthrites are your Drop Melta. No scatter reduction, but it's the unique thing they can do. Unit of four works best for that I find. They work particularly well on Tau as wraiths are overkill on an army with no combat options whatsoever.
As for the Tesseract Ark, the drop is bad, but beforehand it was basically a Land Raider cost actual Tank. Not an overbulked troop transport, but actual firepower.
Tomb Stalker: I have never got my points back on this thing. People see a cool centipede and it has to die.
Yah same here was so excited after building my stalker (which was a giant pain to build) to run it in games. But I quickly learned its dreadfully slow and has basically zero durability. Every game I've ran it in it was toast in roughly 2 turns of being shot at or whomped in CC.
It looks cool and is as useful as a carnifex with talons in all honesty.
I don't think the intention is to get the stalker in CC. My use for it is a mobile platform increasing the BS of nearby units. I used mine for the firs time last night and completely annihilated multiple units in no time. Destroyers with WS5 (hitting on 2s) preferred enemy (rerolling 1s) and then the ability to re-roll armor penetration is huge. I took out a Morkanaught and a pimped out battlewagon on first turn without any real skill at all.
xghostmakerx wrote: I don't think the intention is to get the stalker in CC. My use for it is a mobile platform increasing the BS of nearby units. I used mine for the firs time last night and completely annihilated multiple units in no time. Destroyers with WS5 (hitting on 2s) preferred enemy (rerolling 1s) and then the ability to re-roll armor penetration is huge. I took out a Morkanaught and a pimped out battlewagon on first turn without any real skill at all.
They mean the tomb stalker (forge world), not the triarch stalker. I don't think anyone would want a triarch stalker in cc!
Though it is worth noting that by making it a walker with no AP, they basically made you pay for minimal close combat power the unit will never get any use out of.
Kind of a joke. More reason to combine walkers and Monstrous Creatures into one category I guess.
BrotherGecko wrote: Yah same here was so excited after building my stalker (which was a giant pain to build) to run it in games. But I quickly learned its dreadfully slow and has basically zero durability. Every game I've ran it in it was toast in roughly 2 turns of being shot at or whomped in CC.
It looks cool and is as useful as a carnifex with talons in all honesty.
Have you just been marching it up the table? The second I saw that its rules included Acute Senses and Outflank I knew there was no way this thing was designed to be put on the table turn 1.
The reason I never considered using it in the previous edition is that there was really only one other decent assault unit outside of HQs, the Wraith. Assault units need other assault units to synergize well together, and just slapping a Tomb Stalker in a shooty Necron army would never work.
But now, there's lots of Assault choices. Flayed Ones, Lychguard, Wraiths, Conclave C'Tan (I still am dubious about regular Shards and the TC'tan), even Praetorians are overall more worthwhile. Like I said, Assaultcrons are a thing, and adding an Outflanking MC to that is going to be very, very deadly.
Unfortunately, with the exception of the Wraith, all of those options come from Elites. However, you can easily sidestep that with multiple detachments. For example, I want to try running a small Decurion with Lychguard and Flayed Ones, then plug in a CAD with the Stalker as the Elites option. 7th Edition makes this really, really easy for us!
Requizen wrote: Have you just been marching it up the table? The second I saw that its rules included Infiltrate and Outflank I knew there was no way this thing was designed to be put on the table turn 1.
Oh, how I wish it had Infiltrate.
I tried outflanking mine a lot of times, and it never once paid off. It just has too much difficulty arriving in a timely manner right next to something it would be useful for it to charge, and of course needs to wait a turn to charge.
I abandoned even trying after a while, and actually had the most sucess running it up the table just because it being a bullet sponge is marginally more useful than it failing to show up at all.
It needs a 12 inch move. It just doesn't work without it no matter how many outflank, deep strike or whatever options are piled onto it.
An I concur, even with outflank any juicy unit will move away and then something will either kill it with shooting or smoke it in CC. Its talent is squishy non CC units. Anything fast and durable will pound it. With out an Invul or a 2+ it goes down fast to.
Requizen wrote: Whoops, typo. Meant to say Acute Senses and Outflank. Which is, for all intents and purposes, really damn good as I was saying.
You'd think so, but in practice turning up wherever you like on the left or right table edge on turn 3 is still miles away from most of the action.
The best mine has ever done was the one time I fielded a Pylon just to try it out, and the bubble of 5++ invulnerable allowed the Stalker to tarpit some character or other in a unit of Grav Centurions for three game turns.
To reiterate: That's the best thing it's ever accomplished. Tarpitting a shooty unit whilst a Lord of War was buffing it.
I just got the Night Shroud and the Tesseract Ark and looking for more resin models to fill my ranks
Neither is particularly good, but the sentinel is more fun and will occasionally do something awesome. It has the only real remove from play weapon we still have.
S8 will ID the crypeks despite only wounding on 4s, so you need to keep the C'Tan nearest to heavy firepower. A vindicare could be a decent counter so watch out for them, because it could kill the shackle tek in one shot.
The crypteks use the C'tan's toughness in all cases.
Incorrect, it is only when rolling to wound.
the opposing player must always use the C'tan Shard's Toughness when rolling To Wound models in this Formation.
Since this is limited to only wounding, resolving S8 wounds against a Cryptek would still cause ID. On the other hand, since there is two Crypteks, they would still have a 4+ RP, so not totally left out to dry.
Ah so it is. How is the vindicare assassin making the S8 shot? looking through the dataslate I don't see any options other than it's sniper weapons?
DaKKaLAnce wrote: How would you guys recommend playing against tau as necrons? I feel like Tau would not be such a bad match up for necrons.
Bring a Catacomb Command Barge! It's hilariously powerful against Tau. With AV13, jink and a T5 3+, 4+++ (re-rolling ones) rider, it's nearly impossible to shoot down, especially since the average Tau army is full of S5, 7 and 8. Moving up to 30" a turn you can have it in their face on turn two, forcing them to dedicate their entire force to take it down, or lose a unit that probably cost more than it did. The only unit they have with a real chance of one-shotting it is railgun Longstrike with markerlight support, but even he's hardly in every army, and even he still only has a 48% chance of scoring a penetrating hit, and a 24% chance of actually killing it.
The only unit that can touch it in close combat is the Riptide, but first it'll take D6 S6 AP- hits followed by four attacks that hit on 3+, wound on 3+ and ignore its armour save. Then, if the Riptide is still around, it'll have to smash, but with a single attack, hitting on 5+ and needing another 5+ on the damage table to destroy it, the chances are pretty slim.
Sure, it will go down eventually, but not before you've been given the chance to get Wraiths and Praetorians within assault range and your Warriors unmolested up the midfield and onto the objectives.
I really really like Catacomb Command Barges, if you couldn't tell.
Deuce11 wrote: Any love for the random Tranny C'Tan? I kinda want to run one as area denial/distraction unit along with my Scarab Farm+Wraith Wing CAD.
He's best backed up by a huge Deep Strike force in my opinion. But, now that I think about it, running scarabs and Wraiths up the board could be enough of a distraction for him to be a threat. I'd have to try it.
Deuce11 wrote: Any love for the random Tranny C'Tan? I kinda want to run one as area denial/distraction unit along with my Scarab Farm+Wraith Wing CAD.
He's best backed up by a huge Deep Strike force in my opinion. But, now that I think about it, running scarabs and Wraiths up the board could be enough of a distraction for him to be a threat. I'd have to try it.
If he deep strikes T2, the rest of the force is right there. 12 inch beast movement plus running means these guys might as well have deep struck.
But is the TC'Tan any good? all six of those shooting powers are powerful but very different. I guess you just stay 24 inches away ad shoot the most important enemy unit and see what happens?
Deuce11 wrote: Any love for the random Tranny C'Tan? I kinda want to run one as area denial/distraction unit along with my Scarab Farm+Wraith Wing CAD.
He's best backed up by a huge Deep Strike force in my opinion. But, now that I think about it, running scarabs and Wraiths up the board could be enough of a distraction for him to be a threat. I'd have to try it.
If he deep strikes T2, the rest of the force is right there. 12 inch beast movement plus running means these guys might as well have deep struck.
But is the TC'Tan any good? all six of those shooting powers are powerful but very different. I guess you just stay 24 inches away ad shoot the most important enemy unit and see what happens?
No, you want to charge. It's a close combat unit.
To be honest, the Nightbringer is the only valuable C'tan, and even then I wouldn't want to field him without a God Shackle.
I've been thinking a bit more about non-Nightbringer C'Tan. Given that single shot powers (which most of the C'tan's are aside from Seismic Assault) are worthless if they miss, the BS5 on the Deceiver and T'Ctan is pretty tempting. If your plan is to march your C'tan alongside your troops, then the Nightbringer is a bit less alluring.
However, that's still a 240/250 model for one shot and some assault/counter charge power, which is a bit rough.
I've had a ton of success (even at the tournament level, although admittedly only RTTs) running a lone Nightbringer. Working out a list that has the conclave, but I like my Orikanstar a lot and I would need to sacrifice that or a lot of support units to fit in two more crypteks and their compulsory wargear to make it work well.
That being said, the Deceiver is only good for my Fateweaver conversion and the Transcendent C'tan.....well he has that extra wound. If he is able to be in the Conclave, that might be worth considering but I think the nightbringer is still better
At the moment, I'm messing around with a Necron list with a lot of small squads (5-man immortals, 5-man deathmarks, 5-man praetorians, single heavy destroyers etc.).
However, I'm not sure what to use as an HQ for this sort of army. Should I use a CCB, even though it will be the only vehicle in my list? Should I use a cheap Lord or Cryptek and just try to keep him hidden? Or, something else entirely?
If your concerned about the ccb being the only vehicle in your list don't be, it's a chariot so just take the anti tank shots off on the Lord and if you give him an invulnerable save there's a good chance that shot does no damage. The only time it's vulnerable for being a vehicle is in assault so don't charge haywire or melta bombs.
I did a game with phase/scythe, diddn't take the res orb, but it wouldn't have made a difference, as all attacks were put on my chariot (power fist) and my lord took no damage. the flame template would have been nice, I have heard a lot of people are using it well.
Well, the best way to use the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is to drop it out of a Night Scythe imo. CCB is a close second, but there's always that chance it won't get into the right position or get charged or something.
You don't use the flamer on the turn you deep strike with the Deathmarks.
It goes:
1- opponent has something come in from reserves.
2- Deathmarks + D.Lord immediately deep strike in.
3- Deathmarks mark enemy unit for 2+ wounding.
4- shoot (rerolling 1s), roll to wound (rerolling 1s).
5- decimated enemy unit returns fire, look out sir for the D.Lord.
6- Necrons turn. D.Lord splits off and moves toward enemy unit.
7- fire super flamer.
8- charge survivors.
9- slaughter.
I mean, min squads aren't going to have much trouble if you're careful with them. Putting in a Destroyer Lord and positioning the unit somewhere where the Deathmarks are within rapid fire range (so already <12" away before scatter) and where he can get to a target to Flamer in the next turn is something entirely different.
If you're just taking 5 man units to plunk down and don't particularly care if they get to Rapid Fire or not, then yeah, they should be perfectly fine.
Dropping in at 8-9" is usually good for me. They've scattered before, yes, but at that distance it's normally not been a problem.
Though I guess it warrants a tactics question:
If you scatter out of rapid fire range, would it be better to not have them fire that turn and instead move up then fire in your own turn?
Probably worth firing even out of rapid fire range if you have a dlord for PE. Otherwise it's just going to depend on the situation, because of the risk of them dying or being charged before firing. Usually best to just fire them.
skoffs wrote: Dropping in at 8-9" is usually good for me. They've scattered before, yes, but at that distance it's normally not been a problem.
Though I guess it warrants a tactics question:
If you scatter out of rapid fire range, would it be better to not have them fire that turn and instead move up then fire in your own turn?
But, if you fire in your turn, don't you lose the 'wound on 2+' ability?
skoffs wrote: Dropping in at 8-9" is usually good for me. They've scattered before, yes, but at that distance it's normally not been a problem.
Though I guess it warrants a tactics question:
If you scatter out of rapid fire range, would it be better to not have them fire that turn and instead move up then fire in your own turn?
But, if you fire in your turn, don't you lose the 'wound on 2+' ability?
Oh yeah, you don't get to choose when that goes off, do you? It's only the turn they arrive, isn't it?
Alright, so if you scatter out of rapid fire range when playing the new D&D squad (Death & Destruction), just fire anyway. It's better to get those 2+ wounds (rerolling 1s, lol) while you can even if it's only half as many shots.
Here's something I've been wondering, though:
So the Destroyer Lord has the extra move in the assault phase, right? Can he use it to get himself closer to the unit he wants to charge next turn, even if it might move him out of coherancy with the Deathmark unit?
If so, would there be any good reason you would want to do so, or would it be better to leave him with them and move him up in your own movement phase? (followed by flamer in shooting and Warscythe in assault)
Frozocrone wrote: Question, is MSU possible within the Necron Codex (either within CAD or Decurion)?
Absolutely, Canoptek Harvest especially are excellent. 3 minimum Wraiths who have Fearless, Trans Beamers. Then small 8 man units of Flayed Ones and 5 man units of Tomb Blades.
It's great fun.
Speaking of fun, I cannot get over how much fun it is to do a Praetorian / Flayed Ones list. Oh man is it great. I take the Judicator Formation then stack up on the Flayed ones.
That's exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks oh man the options...if taking a CAD would you take Warriors or Immortals? Immortals are obviously cheaper to bring but you get less models..
I find Immortals to be one of the most survivable units in the codex for the point cost. 3+ 5++ .
Personally though I really love Warrior Squads in Ghost Arks for the Decurion it may not be MSU but once someone pointed out I could roll up get out fire with the Ghost Ark, then Rapid Fire, then Charge. I was all about it. I mean it's a obvious tactic but I just never did it but now yes. Yes, I like this.
Could you tank shock with a Ghost Ark, then have the Warriors disembark, then fire with both Ark and rapid firing Warriors, THEN charge with said Warriors? If so, that'd be a lot of potential hits.
skoffs wrote: Could you tank shock with a Ghost Ark, then have the Warriors disembark, then fire with both Ark and rapid firing Warriors, THEN charge with said Warriors? If so, that'd be a lot of potential hits.
No, you cant tank shock and disembark. "... a vehicle cannot tank shock or ram on a turn that a unit disembarks from it..." (BRBpg 81)
Ah, okay, seemed like a bit much.
Well, still a lot of hits with 30 shots followed by 20 attacks. That's not bad output against a single unit.
Plus, if you can position the Ark, you can still fire a full 10 shots at another unit as well, thanks to independent targeting.
Finally got my first game with Decurion detachment in today. 1500 Points using
CCB phylactary/staff of light
3 ignore cover 3+ tomb blades
7 immortals gauss
10 warriors GA 10 warriors GA Destroyer cult
Destroyer lord 2+ armor relic, phylactary
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 heavy destroyer.
I ran the CCB in the middle of the destroyers to get the reroll RP and used that entire wing as a hammer while the ghost arks tomb blades and immortals were the anvil.
My opponent was Space Wolves and by turn 4 I had half of his army dead including his warlord and his 2 rune priests while he had killed 4 immortals and 1 tomb blade
I can hardly believe how resilient crons are in decurion. and destroyers are great!
Frozocrone wrote: That's exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks oh man the options...if taking a CAD would you take Warriors or Immortals? Immortals are obviously cheaper to bring but you get less models..
At the moment, I'm messing around with multiple 5-man Immortal squads.
However, it might be due to the fact that I don't happen to own any Ghost Arks.
keltikhoa wrote: Finally got my first game with Decurion detachment in today. 1500 Points using
CCB phylactary/staff of light
3 ignore cover 3+ tomb blades
7 immortals gauss
10 warriors GA 10 warriors GA Destroyer cult
Destroyer lord 2+ armor relic, phylactary
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 heavy destroyer.
I ran the CCB in the middle of the destroyers to get the reroll RP and used that entire wing as a hammer while the ghost arks tomb blades and immortals were the anvil.
My opponent was Space Wolves and by turn 4 I had half of his army dead including his warlord and his 2 rune priests while he had killed 4 immortals and 1 tomb blade
I can hardly believe how resilient crons are in decurion. and destroyers are great!
When you say you ran your ccb around your destroyers to give re roll rp, it sounds like you made a mistake. Destroyers are not apart of the reclamation legion thus don't benefit from re rolling 1s when the overlord is near. Plus how did you not get assaulted, your ccb can't win an assault and your army is pretty terrible in general to assault, a plain 5 man marine squad could hold your ccb down indefinately and possibly win that assault.
keltikhoa wrote: Finally got my first game with Decurion detachment in today. 1500 Points using
CCB phylactary/staff of light
3 ignore cover 3+ tomb blades
7 immortals gauss
10 warriors GA 10 warriors GA Destroyer cult
Destroyer lord 2+ armor relic, phylactary
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 destroyer
3 heavy destroyer.
I ran the CCB in the middle of the destroyers to get the reroll RP and used that entire wing as a hammer while the ghost arks tomb blades and immortals were the anvil.
My opponent was Space Wolves and by turn 4 I had half of his army dead including his warlord and his 2 rune priests while he had killed 4 immortals and 1 tomb blade
I can hardly believe how resilient crons are in decurion. and destroyers are great!
When you say you ran your ccb around your destroyers to give re roll rp, it sounds like you made a mistake. Destroyers are not apart of the reclamation legion thus don't benefit from re rolling 1s when the overlord is near. Plus how did you not get assaulted, your ccb can't win an assault and your army is pretty terrible in general to assault, a plain 5 man marine squad could hold your ccb down indefinately and possibly win that assault.
Considering there's 18 S5 AP3 shots on jet packs, 3 S9 AP2 on jet packs, 2 AV13 skimmers and 3 jet bikes in that army, I would have been more surprised if he had been assaulted by an army of mostly 3+ saves. I run the Destroyer cult usually and those 18 AP3 shots with rerolling 1's to hit, rerolls to wound are absolutely withering for most armies. I mean, I run warscythes instead of that wargear, but still, you'd be surprised.
A rending unit works pretty well, but a rending single model is generally a small bonus if you get it, not something worth seeking out. You want a free melee weapon, just take the sword.
When you say you ran your ccb around your destroyers to give re roll rp, it sounds like you made a mistake. Destroyers are not apart of the reclamation legion thus don't benefit from re rolling 1s when the overlord is near. Plus how did you not get assaulted, your ccb can't win an assault and your army is pretty terrible in general to assault, a plain 5 man marine squad could hold your ccb down indefinately and possibly win that assault.
Yep you are right my mistake. I looked it up and the overlord reroll is just for reclamation legion units so running the CCB with destroyers is a no go. The JSJ ability does most of your protection anyway.
As for assault, your right my guys would have crumbled in assault. Fortunately my 2 other armies are SluggaChoppa Orks + BullyBoyz and Slaanesh Daemons I know very well how to get into assault and how to avoid getting into assault. My focus at the start was to remove anything that could either keep up with me or slow me down as a result he tried several times to assault me but the closest charge range he tried to roll was about 10" and only succeeded in charging the Immortals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
skoffs wrote: Funny, I thought all auxiliary formations taken under the Decurion benefited from the reroll 1s for RP bonus.
They do benefit from the Decurion bonus, which is +1rp and vehicles ignore crew shaken/stuned.
The reroll 1s within 12" of overlord is a Reclamation legion bonus and those do not transfer so it was my mistake.
If Lords could get the Dispersion Shield and Void Blade combo, it'd be worth taking the Void Blade. They can't so I don't see the point of the Void Blade :(.
Hollismason wrote: If Lords could get the Dispersion Shield and Void Blade combo, it'd be worth taking the Void Blade. They can't so I don't see the point of the Void Blade :(.
Why only if they could get a shield? I mean, the idea of them having a shield is cool, but would defeat the purpose of the Phase Shifter.
The phase shifter would still see play, seeing as the warscythe is two-handed. Access to dispersion shields and particle casters would actually make voidblade/hyperphase sword Lords and Overlords interesting and viable, whereas now nobody uses them.
skoffs wrote: Alright, so if you scatter out of rapid fire range when playing the new D&D squad (Death & Destruction), just fire anyway. It's better to get those 2+ wounds (rerolling 1s, lol) while you can even if it's only half as many shots.
Here's something I've been wondering, though:
So the Destroyer Lord has the extra move in the assault phase, right? Can he use it to get himself closer to the unit he wants to charge next turn, even if it might move him out of coherancy with the Deathmark unit?
If so, would there be any good reason you would want to do so, or would it be better to leave him with them and move him up in your own movement phase? (followed by flamer in shooting and Warscythe in assault)
As the assault phase move is a unit ability there is an argument that he is not allowed to make a jet pack move while attached to a squad that can't do it. The rules are not particularly clear though.
skoffs wrote: If Tau have been allowed to do so with their mixed movement units, why would Necrons not be allowed to?
Because many people perceive the Necron codex as overpowered, and automatically take the side of anything that makes them less powerful. If you insist on this interpretation it means dlords can never keep up with wraiths, and I'm sure there aren't many Tau mixed units that need the ability, so they won't lose any effectiveness.
Okapi wrote: The phase shifter would still see play, seeing as the warscythe is two-handed. Access to dispersion shields and particle casters would actually make voidblade/hyperphase sword Lords and Overlords interesting and viable, whereas now nobody uses them.
I would love to have dual wielding lords. Pleeeeeease, that'd be awesome.
Oberron wrote: Just a thought did any forge world models/units get better/worse because of the new codex rules?
All I can think of is the Tesseract Ark got an AV downgrade from av14 to av 13 but is still av 12 after pen.
Dark Harvest is an awkward mess of mixed rules from one codex or the other now.
I highly recommend house ruling units to have the new codex stats with only the same differences from the prior codex carrying over if you want the list to be particularly playable.
Okapi wrote: The phase shifter would still see play, seeing as the warscythe is two-handed. Access to dispersion shields and particle casters would actually make voidblade/hyperphase sword Lords and Overlords interesting and viable, whereas now nobody uses them.
I would love to have dual wielding lords. Pleeeeeease, that'd be awesome.
An 80 point Overlord with voidblade and hyperphase sword would have four attacks, with AP3 for MEQ and rending and entropic strike for vehicles and TEQ. The warscythe Overlord is still better against anything but hordes, but this would at least make it viable, especially at 80 points versus 100.
