That's a clip from the Miniwargaming video. They are specifically looking for changes and stuff so it probably helps them sound more intelligent in the video.
I actually like the idea of writing in points into the main profiles. I really hate having to switch back and forth.
That's a clip from the Miniwargaming video. They are specifically looking for changes and stuff so it probably helps them sound more intelligent in the video.
I actually like the idea of writing in points into the main profiles. I really hate having to switch back and forth.
I took a picture of the points pages and printed them out so I could have a reference. I might actually type them up in a Word file so I make adjustments based on Errata. Perhaps it is just me, but I like to keep my books in mint or near-mint condition.
Books are sacred pieces of human knowledge. Even gaming books like this.
I didn't even wrote in school books back in primary. if you want to take notes, take them into a notebook. And in the EXTREME case where you need to write something into a book, do it with a pencil and very gentle, so you can erase it without leaving marks.
That's a clip from the Miniwargaming video. They are specifically looking for changes and stuff so it probably helps them sound more intelligent in the video.
I actually like the idea of writing in points into the main profiles. I really hate having to switch back and forth.
That's a clip from the Miniwargaming video. They are specifically looking for changes and stuff so it probably helps them sound more intelligent in the video.
I actually like the idea of writing in points into the main profiles. I really hate having to switch back and forth.
That's not an excuse when post-it notes exist.
Judging from some of their videos they have at least 2 or 3 review copies.
It's probably easier to just scribble in one of them than to try and cover them in layers or post-it notes - especially on camera. Plus it's easier to still see the original rules.
The daemon prince entry apparently does offer the wings.
Hopefully they forgot to copy paste the points in the back, and didnt unintentionally forget to delete the wings from the copy paste all because of "Rules to Models" BS....
Plus GW ought to expect most sane people to be using the plastic prince box. They even feature that converted Plague Drone Prince all over the indexes and rulebooks.
puma713 wrote: I think the price for Deathshrouds is fair.
Over £10 for a single plastic infantry model is never 'fair'.
Really? I guess I'm a little more realistic. GW probably realizes these aren't going to be purchased in bulk, because they're both low-model-count and expensive (points-wise). So, they have to pay for those plastic-injection molds, recoup the loss of production and design, etc., etc. Furthermore, I don't know anyone paying full GW prices for models, so they're actually bringing in 80% of that figure (or less).
Also, I'm willing to pay that price for those models. So yeah, I guess I think that they're worth ~$40.
I used some MK ii or Mk III heads, and scratch built the shoulders plates to build Death Guard Cataphractii. These well become blightlords as soon as I can confirm loadouts. But I'll make more as DS.
I used some MK ii or Mk III heads, and scratch built the shoulders plates to build Death Guard Cataphractii. These well become blightlords as soon as I can confirm loadouts. But I'll make more as DS.
They've got nicely converted shoulderpads, but I'm thinking they are going to be small next to the new official Terminators. The Plague Marines are already big, so I'm expecting the Termies to be a little bigger as well. Your guys may end up a little short.
Here is a thought. Mortarion has Death to the False Emperor. This means on a to hit roll of 6, the model makes an additional attack with the same weapon. Silence specifies that Mortarion must make all of his attacks with the same one of the two attack modes.
So if you roll 18 attacks, does each of those original rolls of a 6 generate 3 additional attacks? I would imagine so, because each 6 to hit gives him an additional attack with Silence, and Silence has two modes, and you have to use the 1-attack-counts-as-3 mode once you've started using it,
Looks like at the leaked price point I'll be passing on the Deathshrouds for now, but I'll have to grab some of those Myphitic Blight-haulers. They look to be one of the best units in the codex so far.
I wonder how effective the individual characters will be. I have a feeling they will be the same clampacks as the Primaris Characters, but easier to convert from a single box of PMs. Just wondering if they're worth the effort.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I wonder how effective the individual characters will be. I have a feeling they will be the same clampacks as the Primaris Characters, but easier to convert from a single box of PMs. Just wondering if they're worth the effort.
I anticipate the Plague Surgeon being very good. He takes up an elite slot and is 67 points (I think?). +1 to all DR rolls within 3" is pretty strong.
Is it just me or is this the least amount of details for a preorder ever? Normally everything is fully leaked by now for our review. We just have small tidbits and a broad unit overview. I'm curious about unit options and stats.
Here is some more realism for you then; if you are happy to pay £10 before long you will be paying £20. The reason why GW feel that they can get away with charging vastly inflated prices is that people were apparently happy to pay inflated prices.
Here is some more realism for you then; if you are happy to pay £10 before long you will be paying £20. The reason why GW feel that they can get away with charging vastly inflated prices is that people were apparently happy to pay inflated prices.
Inflated based on what?
Here is a question, ever make something by hand then sold it? I have. I know and have sold chain maille. Yes, medieval armor and more modern jewelry. Problem is, few people want to pay for the work I put in let alone the quality that my expertise provides. So a bracelet that took me 2 hours to make and I try to sell for $30, people want it for $10.
Sorry, but quality, material costs, production costs, etc need to be paid.
You complain about the price but it is reasonable. As pointed out GW made the decision because they know how many will likely sell. They know it is a niche unit in a niche faction that does not have the same backing of players like CSM, Space Marines, etc has. Prices reflect that. They also suspect that people won't pick up more than a single set.
It's basic economics and while many of us got burned by GW's prices in the past, the current GW is being smart. Old GW would of priced these guys at £40-45 and called it good.
We are also talking about a Multi-part plastic kit.
ZergSmasher wrote: Looks like at the leaked price point I'll be passing on the Deathshrouds for now, but I'll have to grab some of those Myphitic Blight-haulers. They look to be one of the best units in the codex so far.
Those and the Plague Burst Crawlers. They seem insane.
Another collection of info from the MWG video, by TheMelancholic - B&C forum
Foul Blightspawn:
An elite character choice (we get a lot of these)
Pretty solid profile. WS/BS 3+ 4W T5 Ld8 Disgustingly Resilient e.c.t.
Gets a random strength (2d6) plague weapon flamer with good -3AP and 3 damage
Has a debuff to enemy units charging friendlies within 7", taking away their charge priority and or any rules that give them attack priority (e.g. quicksilver swiftness/flawless execution). This means units that charge within 7" of this guy have to be activated by your opponent rather than going first by default. Probably his most useful trait.
Once per game he can throw a Blight-Grenade at Grenade 2d6 instead of Grenade d6 or he can allow a friendly Death Guard character within 3" to throw the a Blight Grenade (or Hyper-Blight Grenade) at 2d6 instead.
You are taking this guy for his charge debuff I feel...his randumb strength flamer could be good (average strength 7 is okay) but I don't like the unreliability of such things. Still, not the worst choice. Has some synergy with the guy below.
Biologus Putrifier:
An elite character choice
Same profile as above
Comes with an injector pistol which has 3" range, strength 4 -1AP Damage D6 (1 against vehicles). Meh.
Has Hyper-Blight Grenades which are Strength 4 and damage 2. He also gives these to all Death Guard units within 3" of him (provided they had Blight Grenades already).
Can explode like a vechile on death to deal one mortal wound to all non-Nurgle units around him.
Yeah...he's okay. Synergies well with Blight Bombardment (which allows everyone in a unit to throw grenades simultaneously). Perhaps serves best with an assault team but I can't really see his place in the army.
Plague Surgeon:
Another elite character choice
Has a bale sword (power sword with plague weapon)
Gives all Death Guard units within 3" re-rolls of 1 for disgustingly resilient (win!)
He himself gets +1 to hit and to wound when targeting enemies with the ADEPTUS ASTARTES keywords during the fight phase.
I can see him being taken just for the DR re-rolls. A solid addition, probably being one of the better elite slot characters.
Tallyman:
Yet another elite character choice
Comes stock with a Plasma Pistol apparently
Gives all Death Guard within 7" re-rolls to hit during the fight phase.
Whenever you use a stratagem, roll a 2d6. If you get a 7 (and only a seven) the Tallyman will refund all the CP you used. Fluffy, but don't bank on it.
Decidedly okay. Could be good in a melee orientated army with loads of Poxwalkers and CC plague marines.
Deathshroud:
Come in units of three with an option for three more
Everyone has plague reapers
75(!) points per guy
3 attacks each (4 on champion), T5 with two wounds apiece.
Cataphractii armour
Everyone gets Plague weapon hand flamers
All DEATH GUARD characters within 7" of the Deathshroud (excluding Morty) get +1 to their attacks.
If a DEATH GUARD character within 3" would be hit by an attack, on a 2+ these guys can take it instead. This can be used on Morty.
Melee monsters, but also able to help Morty survive turn one shooting. Solid...but expensive, and I feel they will be too easy to kite.
Blightlord Terminators:
Come in a unit of five
38 points per model (not including wargear...but still much cheaper than Deathshroud)
Can take special weapons (Blight Launchers e.c.t.) but limited to one in five (I think)
Can be kitted for melee too, with options for Baleswords (Plague Power Swords), Maces of Contagion, Bubotic Axes, Flails...e.c.t.
I think these guys will be better than Deathshrouds. Cheaper, can bring melee pain and have decent ranged options too.
Foetid Bloat Drone:
Can swap plaguespitters for fleshmowers or Heavy Blight Launchers
Fleshmower is strength +2, -2AP, 2 Damage Plague Weapon. Every time a Plague Drone attacks with this weapon, it can make 6(!!) additional attacks with it.
They annoying skipped over the heavy blight launcher but ho-hum...
Blight-Hauler:
10" Move. WS/BS 4+. T7/W8 with no degrading profile.
5++ with DR
No penalty to moving a shooting heavy weapons.
Adds one to hit rolls if there are 3 or more in the unit (so apparently these guys can be taken in squadrons)
-1 to hit him in fight phase
DEATH GUARD INFANTRY entirely within 7" get the benefit of cover. Lolwhut...that's pretty strong honestly.
Comes with a Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher
Has a Bilespurt weapon, range 12" assault d3 strength six -1AP 1 damage plague weapon
Is -2AP 1 Damage Plague Weapon in melee (base strength 6)
I dig him honestly. Lots of shootiness on a cheap little body, which also buffs your guys. Take him...hell, take three.
Plague Burst Crawler:
12 wounds, Toughness 8 and 3+ save
Comes with a Plague Mortar and two Plaguespitters
Plaguespitters can be swapped for Entropy Cannons which are 36" heavy one, strength 8, Ap-4 damage d6 (so crummy lascannons).
Mortar is 12-48" (it has a minimum range). Heavy d6, strength 8 -2AP damage d3. Can fire indirectly and is a plague weapon.
Okay shooting on a 150 point platform. Pretty cost efficient and tough.
Sorry O'Shovah's for the mistake, serves me right for being snarky just after waking up. Thanks also to the 319 people who found it in themselves to correct me.
Anyway, according to banis on B&C, the Heavy Blight Launcher is apparently range 36" assault 6 str 6 ap2 dmg d3; apologies if this has been posted already.
Curious about the Blight Lords, I get the feeling there won't be any power fist option nor an option for 5x the same big gun to prevent us from using FW 30k Grave Wardens of which I have a bunch lying around .
Hoping that's not the case!
Warhams-77 wrote: Another collection of info from the MWG video, by TheMelancholic - B&C forum
[quote
Biologus Putrifier:
An elite character choice
Same profile as above
Comes with an injector pistol which has 3" range, strength 4 -1AP Damage D6 (1 against vehicles). Meh.
Has Hyper-Blight Grenades which are Strength 4 and damage 2. He also gives these to all Death Guard units within 3" of him (provided they had Blight Grenades already).
Can explode like a vechile on death to deal one mortal wound to all non-Nurgle units around him.
Yeah...he's okay. Synergies well with Blight Bombardment (which allows everyone in a unit to throw grenades simultaneously). Perhaps serves best with an assault team but I can't really see his place in the army.
.
Also he gives mortal wounds on 6+ to wound on granades no?
Marshal Loss wrote: Sorry O'Shovah's for the mistake, serves me right for being snarky just after waking up. Thanks also to the 319 people who found it in themselves to correct me.
Anyway, according to banis on B&C, the Heavy Blight Launcher is apparently range 36" assault 6 str 6 ap2 dmg d3; apologies if this has been posted already.
Glad i held off and only grabbed 2nd hand D.I. nurgle set and someones leftover p.marines and nox.
I added 2 quick plague kits and now i have the blightwar nurgle and a Morty on the way.
If i can grab another 2 lords contagion, ill do some quick conversions and use them as deathshroud(for morty).
I think ill grab 1 foetid kit and see if i can magnetize to switch between heavy blight and mower.
3 haulers and 2 crawlers and i think maybe 1 kit of new p.marines for a cc squad.
Warhams-77 wrote: Another collection of info from the MWG video, by TheMelancholic - B&C forum
Foul Blightspawn:
An elite character choice (we get a lot of these)
Pretty solid profile. WS/BS 3+ 4W T5 Ld8 Disgustingly Resilient e.c.t.
Gets a random strength (2d6) plague weapon flamer with good -3AP and 3 damage
Has a debuff to enemy units charging friendlies within 7", taking away their charge priority and or any rules that give them attack priority (e.g. quicksilver swiftness/flawless execution). This means units that charge within 7" of this guy have to be activated by your opponent rather than going first by default. Probably his most useful trait.
Once per game he can throw a Blight-Grenade at Grenade 2d6 instead of Grenade d6 or he can allow a friendly Death Guard character within 3" to throw the a Blight Grenade (or Hyper-Blight Grenade) at 2d6 instead.
You are taking this guy for his charge debuff I feel...his randumb strength flamer could be good (average strength 7 is okay) but I don't like the unreliability of such things. Still, not the worst choice. Has some synergy with the guy below.
YES! I was hoping for some sort of anti-charge mechanic. I think this will be huge. With all of our special elite characters, I can easily see Vanguard Detachments of Elite characters being put together to support our Battalion detachments or Spearhead detachments.
With my list I'm building, I'm not quite sure whether I should take the bloat drone with the mower or the cute tracked thing with the multi-melta and such. The drone is amazing with that mower, but the cover save aura from the cute little dude seems really handy, along with a decent amount of anti-tank.
EDIT: Also can't decide between taking the dude who buffs Blight grenades to S4, 2dmg or the Surgeon for the re-rolling 1's for DR. I only really have the rough amount of points for 1 and they both seem awesome. The DR will obviously help them live a little better as they move up the board, but the grenade dude mixed with that stratagem to allow a full squad to chuck grenades would be an insane WW1 style grenade volley of death from the 14 man unit I'm thinking of taking.
Mayk0l wrote: Curious about the Blight Lords, I get the feeling there won't be any power fist option nor an option for 5x the same big gun to prevent us from using FW 30k Grave Wardens of which I have a bunch lying around .
Hoping that's not the case!
The final nail in the 'I made a Vectorium at the start of the year' coffin... I bought Grave Wardens as I loved the models.
If I can't take power fists for my terminators I think I may just cry.
(I'm already going to lose two units of Havocs - of which I bought two sets of FW heavy weapons to make - seven Obliterators, six Bikers, and two Heldrakes... might as well bin my army).
Mayk0l wrote: Curious about the Blight Lords, I get the feeling there won't be any power fist option nor an option for 5x the same big gun to prevent us from using FW 30k Grave Wardens of which I have a bunch lying around .
Hoping that's not the case!
The final nail in the 'I made a Vectorium at the start of the year' coffin... I bought Grave Wardens as I loved the models.
If I can't take power fists for my terminators I think I may just cry.
(I'm already going to lose two units of Havocs - of which I bought two sets of FW heavy weapons to make - seven Obliterators, six Bikers, and two Heldrakes... might as well bin my army).
Just take them as allied Chaos marines with the Mark of Nurgle. You don't get major perks of being Death Guard, but you can at least still use the models.
I have a Heldrake, about 30 Chaos Space Marines, probably 20 Chosen, 3x Oblits, 1x Biker Squad, 10 x Terminators... plus 20x Posessed and a Sorcerer in Terminator armor that I don't see myself ever using with DG.
Luckily, none of it was painted. I thought about maybe making a new CSM army but I have no idea which Legion I'd try to make.
Qlanth wrote: I have a Heldrake, about 30 Chaos Space Marines, probably 20 Chosen, 3x Oblits, 1x Biker Squad, 10 x Terminators... plus 20x Posessed and a Sorcerer in Terminator armor that I don't see myself ever using with DG.
Luckily, none of it was painted. I thought about maybe making a new CSM army but I have no idea which Legion I'd try to make.
What's your favorite legion?
I am doing some specific Legion small detachments (mainly composed of elite units) which are supposed to play with my Black Legion battalion.
Heavy support (havocs and vehicles) - Iron Warriors
Possessed and Dark Apostle - Word Bearers
Raptors and Talons - Night Warriors
Noise Marines - Emperor's Children
Berzerkers - World Eaters
Bikers and some Chosen - Alpha Legion
Rubric Marines and Sorcerers - Thousand Sons
But with the new DG stuff I'm going to make a full DG army on the side as well.
Luckily I only have to replace my Lightning Claw Champion for a converted up Death Wing Flail Knight to run the Blight Lords.
Obliterators can always be subbed as Iron Warriors, (The Pandemic Brotherhood) and with the Grandfather's Gift strategem, I can bring one back to life, or if I disregard their color scheme, count them as slaanesh for double shooting. I think Ignores Cover heavy weapons is useful in most situations. My Havocs and melta bikers fit in this role nicely too. After all, it took a combination of Morty and Perturabo to perfect the Obliterator Virus.
Mayk0l wrote: Curious about the Blight Lords, I get the feeling there won't be any power fist option nor an option for 5x the same big gun to prevent us from using FW 30k Grave Wardens of which I have a bunch lying around .
Hoping that's not the case!
I think power fists, chainfists and lightning claws are safe - it seems the rest is. Plus the Chaos Terminator Lord kit has those options...
So, seeing what we've seen so far my own collection boils down as follows...
Death Guard
Typhus
Terminator Lord - LC, Combi-Melta
Chaos Lord - Bolt Pistol, Power Mace (Flail)
Plaguecaster
Chaos Sorcerer - Force Sword
Daemon Prince with Wings
5 Blightlord Terminators - 2 Power Axes, 2 combi-bolters, 2 combi-flamers, heavy flamer, Power Maul/Icon, Power Fist, Chainfist
5 Blightlord Terminators - 5 Combi-bolters, 4 Power Fists, Power Axe, Reaper Autocannon
5 Blightlord Terminators - 2 Combi-bolters, Power Sword, Lightning Claw, 2 paired LCs, Chainfist, Reaper Autocannon
Plague Surgeon
Noxious Blightbringer
7 Plague Marines - Power Fist, 2 Plasma Guns
7 Plague Marines - Power Fist, 2 Plasma Guns
7 Plague Marines - Power Fist, 2 Meltaguns
7 Plague Marines - Power Fist, 2 Meltaguns
20 Poxwalkers
3 Chaos Rhinos
3 Chaos Spawn
1 Bloat-Drone with Plaguespurters
Land Raider
Giant Chaos Spawn (actually a Reaper Bones Shub-Niggurath)
CSM Allies - Alpha Legion
Fabius Bile
Chaos Lord - Jump Pack, Pair of LCs
7 Chosen - 2 Power Fists, 2 Power Swords, Plasma Gun
5 Raptors - Power Sword, Plasma Gun
7 Havocs - Power Maul, Bolt Pistol, 4 Autocannons
7 Havocs - Power Maul, Bolt Pistol, 4 Heavy Bolters
3 Obliterators
- Figure out some way of not obliterating the beautiful Death Guard paint scheme on what have become generic CSM allied units and applying it.
- Converting up another Herald of Nurgle for the Daemons.
Of this lot the non-FW or FW component using units are... the Daemon Prince, Typhus, Fabius Bile, the Plaguecaster, the Blightbringer, the Chaos Spawn, the Giant Spawn, the Poxwalkers, the Bloat-Drone, the Chosen and the Obliterators.
I do really need to paint up the Reaper Shubby though as the Giant Spawn is amazingly hilarious for its cost.
Just kind of irked that I need to figure a way to mark the non Death Guard units for events and the like....
Though Heavy Bolters would make amusing counts-as Blight Launchers....
If it's any consolation he sounds by any measure violently unpleasant to play against, to the point where I have a hard time imagining I'd enjoy a game where an opponent brought him.
Does anybody know how many flails can be taken in a Blightlord unit? Can't recall exactly how the various reviews described it. Is it 0-2 per unit, or maybe 1 per 5?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can we confirm that the Plague Buggy thing can be in squadrons but the flying drones cannot?
Yep 100%
Feels like a little bit of a missed opportunity, having squadrons of them with the same +1 to hit when you had 3 as the haulers would have been sick.
Still not sure if I'm going to be running fleshmowers or heavy blight launchers on them; 6 shots at 4+ seems a little underwhelming to me, although I suppose they're only 134 points.
Virules wrote: Do we know yet what the fleshmower costs to add to a Bloat Drone?
I also would love to see the Terminator options menu and the flesh mower upgrades. No one has posted the points costs yet oddly. I am curious upgrad costs.
Terminators are 1 in 5 can take one of 3 ranged special weapons and 1 in 5 can take the plague flail. They all have combo bolters (can be other combi weapons) and either balesword or bubotic axe. I assume costs are same as for plague marines.
Virules wrote: Terminators are 1 in 5 can take one of 3 ranged special weapons and 1 in 5 can take the plague flail. They all have combo bolters (can be other combi weapons) and either balesword or bubotic axe. I assume costs are same as for plague marines.
Ah. Has it been confirmed no fists, chainfists, LCs or power mauls then?
You think with all the people who have the book they could just simply say if our Death Guard Terminators are all invalid now.
Marshal Loss wrote: Feels like a little bit of a missed opportunity, having squadrons of them with the same +1 to hit when you had 3 as the haulers would have been sick.
Wow. I bought three of the things 'cause I thought they'd be in squadrons. That is so dumb...
Uhh... one step forward, two steps back. Every fething time GW...
you could try converting excess bloat drones into blight crawlers? they look pretty close...
although, 3 single bloat drones could be nice little throwaway harassers?
...but yeah, gotta admit, I figured they'd be able to be taken in squads too, it does seem a bit odd...especially now that we've seen the blightcrawlers, and how they can be taken in squads...ehh I dunno...
H.B.M.C. wrote: You think with all the people who have the book they could just simply say if our Death Guard Terminators are all invalid now.
Marshal Loss wrote: Feels like a little bit of a missed opportunity, having squadrons of them with the same +1 to hit when you had 3 as the haulers would have been sick.
Wow. I bought three of the things 'cause I thought they'd be in squadrons. That is so dumb...
Uhh... one step forward, two steps back. Every fething time GW...
I don't think Counts-As is going to be that bad. For the most part you can count all melee weapons as the same, but I don't know what range options they have yet.
I can't decide what colour scheme to pick for my Death Guard... if to go for a green pattern like the colours GW picked for its previews, or maybe something like this:
What do you think is best:
This sort of slightly more pallid green?
This sort of white sickly armour?
Or a bit of a mix of both, and go overboard with the corrosion, the rust and a darker scheme?
I like somewhere between examples 2 and 3...if I had to pick one though, number 2 is probably my favourite, I'm a sucker for original death guard colours
Maybe they're stringing out our release like this to sell more Dark Imperium boxes? Even today Warhammer Community released another advertisement that "Dark Imperium would be a great way to start a Death Guard army!" You know what else would be a great way? Release all the new models and let us buy an army!
puma713 wrote: Maybe they're stringing out our release like this to sell more Dark Imperium boxes? Even today Warhammer Community released another advertisement that "Dark Imperium would be a great way to start a Death Guard army!" You know what else would be a great way? Release all the new models and let us buy an army!
Obviously it would be nice to have all the releases announced for planning and budgeting purposes, but I don't mind the releases being spread out from a logistics perspective. I'm hoping to keep up with the releases paint wise so that my army will grow at about the pace of releases. If they dropped like ten new boxes next Saturday, I can't buy, build, or paint them that fast so I'd still end up purchasing them on about the schedule we're assuming they will be released. Again, it'd be nice to know all of the actual boxes and prices.
I'm really wondering what is going to happen with the rumoured Nurgle Daemons.
We have all ready seen art for new Beasts and those new armoured Daemons that may have the name Maggoths?
And of course the new Great Unclean One.
But what will this release be tied to?
GW always seems to tie a release to a new book or event.
dan2026 wrote: I'm really wondering what is going to happen with the rumoured Nurgle Daemons.
We have all ready seen art for new Beasts and those new armoured Daemons that may have the name Maggoths?
And of course the new Great Unclean One.
But what will this release be tied to?
GW always seems to tie a release to a new book or event.
puma713 wrote: Maybe they're stringing out our release like this to sell more Dark Imperium boxes? Even today Warhammer Community released another advertisement that "Dark Imperium would be a great way to start a Death Guard army!" You know what else would be a great way? Release all the new models and let us buy an army!
They also need to make sure people have enough money to buy the new models, and not everyone can buy new models immediately after spending a lot of money for Mortarion
Leth wrote: I really like the deathshroud terminators but I cant justify the purchase unless we can get a body without the tongue sticking out.
This is a rather strange breaking point lol. Why not just clip it off?
Its the mouth as well breaking up the model I just said tongue to highlight the model I dont like. I cant justify spending 25 bucks on a model I know I wont like probably have to see about getting a body from a bits seller if I do end up getting the kit.
puma713 wrote: Maybe they're stringing out our release like this to sell more Dark Imperium boxes? Even today Warhammer Community released another advertisement that "Dark Imperium would be a great way to start a Death Guard army!" You know what else would be a great way? Release all the new models and let us buy an army!
They also need to make sure people have enough money to buy the new models, and not everyone can buy new models immediately after spending a lot of money for Mortarion
It's more drawn out than other releases have been even when they've had a big expensive model as part of it.
Leth wrote: I really like the deathshroud terminators but I cant justify the purchase unless we can get a body without the tongue sticking out.
This is a rather strange breaking point lol. Why not just clip it off?
Its the mouth as well breaking up the model I just said tongue to highlight the model I dont like. I cant justify spending 25 bucks on a model I know I wont like probably have to see about getting a body from a bits seller if I do end up getting the kit.
Cut the tongue off and fill in the mouth with greenstuff.
Virules wrote: Does anyone know what Baleswords for Blightlord Terminators do, as opposed to normal Plagueswords?
Pretty sure they have the stats of a power sword but with the Plague Weapon rule
Isn't that what a Plaguesword is?
Plague sword is a normal close combat weapon but can re-roll all wound rolls
Yup, you're right. Looks like Baleswords will be the way to go in my opinion, especially if you stack the +wound stratagem or psychic power, or the psychic power for +1 str.
Bluebeard wrote: I can't decide what colour scheme to pick for my Death Guard... if to go for a green pattern like the colours GW picked for its previews, or maybe something like this:
What do you think is best:
This sort of slightly more pallid green?
This sort of white sickly armour?
Or a bit of a mix of both, and go overboard with the corrosion, the rust and a darker scheme?
I agree the white is amazing, but I'm a big fan of the ApatheticFish on youtube and his tutorials. I'm going with #1 -- the Deathguard Green spray is so easy to use, and I want to get them painted quickly. His tutorials really took my Age of Sigmar to a higher level.
I won't lie, the putrifer seems rather pointless, since there's already a character that buffs blight grenades and has better uses outside of that. I can see him being useful with the bombardment stratagem but they could have given him that as an ability and he'd feel more worthwhile taking on his own
Galas wrote: 6th edition of Warhammer Fantasy was pretty famous for is GRIMDARK EVERYTHING!
Bretonnia transform from the idealistic medieval france version of 5th edition with noble knights and ladys and peasants that with honour and valor become knights and nobles, to a medieval hellhole where the nobles had a 90% tax in the peasants and everyone was poor and die all the time. The same happened to Wood Elves.
So... back to the Bretonnia of 3rd Edition WHFB, then?
Str 4 damage 2 grenades on an entire unit is crazy powerful. The synergies stack like crazy and really increase the appeal of fewer large units. Working on a unit of 20 plague marines supported by two units of pox as the core. Characters and Mortarian to taste.
There's been very little in the DG releases that has made me go "yeah, that's a nice model I might buy that", but these Termies... Mmm, mm, mm, those look tasty!
Leth wrote: I really like the deathshroud terminators but I cant justify the purchase unless we can get a body without the tongue sticking out.
This is a rather strange breaking point lol. Why not just clip it off?
Its the mouth as well breaking up the model I just said tongue to highlight the model I dont like. I cant justify spending 25 bucks on a model I know I wont like probably have to see about getting a body from a bits seller if I do end up getting the kit.
If you're talking about this, there are at least two torso options for the champion, so you need not worry.
Can't wait for the blight lord terminators. I'm really sad though that they can all take combi plasma, but only 1 in 5 can take a blight launcher. It would be so awesome to have a full blight launcher terminator squad (and they seem to be on-par with plasma, power wise)
I'm also unsure about my colours. I like dirty desaturated airbrush white. I like slimy deep green with brown and green streaks like cracked surfaces (e.g. the Marines in the batt rep with the Platoon zombie and Abbaddon with Cadia in the Claw on the cover). I like a warmer "white" brought up from Snakebite Leather over Vomit Brown with just a touch of white on the extreme highlights (I think googling Warhammer Deathshrouds gives you pics of a great army done like this, but with heavy black weathering instead of edge highlights). I like cleaner bright greens to go with yellow-ish skin.
My few painted Pox Walkers are done with loaded brush blendings and white spot higlights but matte skin (thanks, Scale75...) so they could go with either way. Mixing too gritty stuff with too clean stuff looks off without even more time than I already waste on unit members. Urgh. Can't decide. Halp.
Looking at the plastic Deathshroud I can't help but think that I'll have to cut up my new super expensive guys to give them breastplates that go OVER their belly armour. That look is cool on a couple of dudes, but overall I want Termis worh bloated bellies amd swollen chests, like that one Nurgle Termi pictured in 3.5 codex art.
Milkshaker wrote: Can't wait for the blight lord terminators. I'm really sad though that they can all take combi plasma, but only 1 in 5 can take a blight launcher. It would be so awesome to have a full blight launcher terminator squad (and they seem to be on-par with plasma, power wise)
Ah well, plasma spam it is I guess
I'm wondering if they can take Heavy Blight Launchers...
Milkshaker wrote: Can't wait for the blight lord terminators. I'm really sad though that they can all take combi plasma, but only 1 in 5 can take a blight launcher. It would be so awesome to have a full blight launcher terminator squad (and they seem to be on-par with plasma, power wise)
Ah well, plasma spam it is I guess
I'm wondering if they can take Heavy Blight Launchers...
Well if they can take a heavy blight launcher instead of regular blight launchers, i'd complain a lot less that thing looks cool
Oh o.k wow! I was really expecting a real over the top mish mash of robes and extraneous details that kinda confused the eye but they actually look good! really nice models that I could certainly paint up!
The Fly Termie is the clear winner with all this new stuff. <3
Pumped about the Deathshrouds, new Blight Drones, and Typhus, too, though.
I'm going to have to repose Typhus, though. I can't say I care much for the victorious, energetic Typhus. He needs to be much more hunched over, and depressed, and seething--less static than the old model, but lower that scythe, man ... put it down. Might be fun to re-model him into that classic 'squishing the IG he just decapitated' pose from his codex art, too.
Picked the codex up last night, really impressed, lovely artwork.
The thing i noticed most is this army will be about minor buffs with a major cumulative effect. Its going to take a lot of reading of the special rules and playing to really get a handle on all of the overlapping buffs.
Model-wise; Typhus, deathshrouds, terminators and the 2 new vehicles are on our list, im dissapointed witht he step away from the truly grim plague aesthetic but i cant deny that the tenticles and horn growths look amazing. People will gripe about the lack of multfit options but the way i see it- if lack of multifit is the compromise for these truly unique little details like tentacles and chainmail/rags hanging down etc then its a small price to pay.
One more thing i noticed, the beasts of nurgle unit page had a picture that was most definitely not the current beast model, definitely a new model on the cards for that and it will look amazing.
And the terminators only have access to the standard blight launcher among a LONG list of other options. Also, anybody who stocked up on the Dark imperium blight drones i think will be disappointing, the other 2 weapon options are brutal in comparison.
sorry to waffle, just relaying what i can remember
Hoping the deathshroud aren't too monopose as 2 boxes will look to similar on the battlefield...
Im at work at the moment, if i remember ill post a pic up tonight when i get home.
For the terminators, there's that many weapon options i cant see there not being a huge amount of variation in the kit. Same for the plague marines, the cleaver thing is brutal- Sx2 ap-3 d6 damage
Hoping the deathshroud aren't too monopose as 2 boxes will look to similar on the battlefield...
Im at work at the moment, if i remember ill post a pic up tonight when i get home.
For the terminators, there's that many weapon options i cant see there not being a huge amount of variation in the kit. Same for the plague marines, the cleaver thing is brutal- Sx2 ap-3 d6 damage
A pic of termis or the new beast of nurgle model ?
I'm sure Process means the artwork we have seen already
Could you please post photos of both Terminator units' rules and the points tables at the back of the book and host them on imgur.com? We still have some questions unanswered regarding their equipment
Process wrote: And the terminators only have access to the standard blight launcher among a LONG list of other options. Also, anybody who stocked up on the Dark imperium blight drones i think will be disappointing, the other 2 weapon options are brutal in comparison.
I'm more disappointed that they don't come in squadrons, but the other new light vehicle does.
I read on a german forum we may see three Nurgle releases.
DG now, then a wave of new Nurgle Daemon models in between, and a third release with AoS Nurgle 'Mortals' later. The latter could coincide with Thebiggesthat's info we may see an AoS Nurgle battletome among more models like a heavy cavalry AoS unit in Feb 2018.
This sounds like there will be a lot of new stuff released for Nurgle in the next 5-6 months...
Warhams-77 wrote: I'm sure Process means the artwork we have seen already
Could you please post photos of both Terminator units' rules and the points tables at the back of the book and host them on imgur.com? We still have some questions unanswered regarding their equipment
Blightlords terminators are armed with combis and balesword/ bubonic axes, for every 5 one can replace combi with heavy shoot weapon ( blight launcher, autocannon, plague spewer) For every 5 you can replace for flail of corruption.
If you roll 6 to wound on melee, increase the Ap +1.
Base cost is 38, with combi plasma + axe are 58 each.
I rearlly would like to know if the rules allow that i can equip my normal DG terminators with dual power claw as well as bolter and chanfist (each option 5 times)
Paintalist wrote: I rearlly would like to know if the rules allow that i can equip my normal DG terminators with dual power claw as well as bolter and chanfist (each option 5 times)
H.B.M.C. wrote: So...... they've invalidated the squads of anyone who owns these:
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure there's some plague weapon that's pretty much a powerfist (x2 strength, high ap and damage) in all but name. I'd have no problem with you running these models and using counts as weapons.
ZebioLizard2 wrote: The Great Plague Cleaver is pretty much x2 -3 D6 -1 to hit.
That's the badger. I don't think we were ever going to get a choice between power fist and plaguey power fist (cleaver) in the book, and fair enough they wanted to model it differently. So counts as is the way to go I think.
Can Blightlords even take the Great Plague Cleaver? I didn't think they could, which if so means that you're going to have to count fists as axes/swords etc. Bit of a pain.
I wonder how many combi-weapons come in the box - I suppose 5x of a single type would be too much to ask.
Yea that's crazy talk It will be like the other boxes which are usually 1 of each and that's it! Best bet is to get the bits on shapeways or other 3rd party sites
Datasheet says yes for 1PL. Doesn't feature in the wargear points list. So until the first FAQ, it can for zero points!
I'm going to play it and pay as per the CSM list. Presumably the FAQ will be very fast and hopefully it'll say that the error is in the points list, and not on the datasheet...
Datasheet says yes for 1PL. Doesn't feature in the wargear points list. So until the first FAQ, it can for zero points!
I'm going to play it and pay as per the CSM list. Presumably the FAQ will be very fast and hopefully it'll say that the error is in the points list, and not on the datasheet...
I guess I'm asking because considering models, while the old failcast one is much nicer than the plastic kit, I suspect running without wings will be a bad plan, so plastic it is for the moment.
Datasheet says yes for 1PL. Doesn't feature in the wargear points list. So until the first FAQ, it can for zero points!
I'm going to play it and pay as per the CSM list. Presumably the FAQ will be very fast and hopefully it'll say that the error is in the points list, and not on the datasheet...
I guess I'm asking because considering models, while the old failcast one is much nicer than the plastic kit, I suspect running without wings will be a bad plan, so plastic it is for the moment.
I've only recently started converting a FW Mortarion with a pair of absolutely-massive-so-you-definitely-can't-pretend-they're-not-there wings so I'm going to be in a right old huff if he can't be Death Guard and has to come along as part of a CSM Supreme Command/Vanguard
So, am I the only one who wants to take a big unit of 14 plague marines marching behind a horde of pox walkers, making the unit of plague marines invisible with the stratagem and then using the grenade guy+the stratagem to let the entire unit lob grenades+the spell to make Plague weapons +1 to wound+Veterans of the Long War to make them mortal wound on a 4+ for a devistatingly inane volley of grenades? 3 command points but worth it?
EDIT: As this'll be mainly a 1 turn thing, perhaps adding the other grenade guy into it would be hilarious, as he could then make the volley of grenades 2d6 per dude for that turn.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So...... they've invalidated the squads of anyone who owns these:
Just use them as Chaos Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle?
Man, this approach really pisses me off.
'DUR HURR JUST USE THEM AS X'.
Um. No. They've been Death Guard Terminators for the past 4 editions. They're painted up in my army's colour scheme. They're modelled appropriately too.
And now they suddenly...aren't Death Guard? What?
It means I'm going to have to do a lot of rigging about which is a bastard with the squads as they are.
One squad
- 2 Power Axe/Combi- bolters - fine, I guess?
- 1 combi-flamer/ icon - I suppose the icon can count as about anything so fine.
- 1 Chainfist/combi- flamer
- 1 Power Fist/Heavy Flamer
I suppose if I count the fists as Swords?
Second Squad (in a bone scheme)
1 Power Axe/Combi Bolter - Fine
3 Power Fist/Combi-bolters - uh....
1 Reaper/Power Fist - Uh........
Third Squad
1 Power Sword/combi bolter - Fine
1 Lightning Claw/combi-bolter - Uh....count as a sword?
2 Lightning Claw pairs - Ummmmm....
1 Reaper/Chainfist - Uh......
Well. This is fun. I have to ramshackle something for this weekend out of them. And no, just using a keyword isn't okay. Because that'll require a whole OTHER detachment to field sub-par Terminators. This is what I was fearing...going to be a lot of counts as I guess.
Sharazad87 wrote: Because then they can be affected by nurgle key-worded abilities.
granted there few and far between for just <Nurgle>.
Might as well just use slaanesh then and get useful strategems since they won't be death guard. It's really stupid they cant simply be deathguard but gotta sell those new boxes and screw older players!
H.B.M.C. wrote: So...... they've invalidated the squads of anyone who owns these:
Just use them as Chaos Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle?
Man, this approach really pisses me off.
If I were in your shoes, I'd be pissed too. Between that and making the new marines huge, I'm annoyed myself. I only lost 3 Nurgle Bikers, but they were really cool and heavily converted.
Virules wrote: I guess the real joke is on me; I spent months converting my DG Obliterators and Mutilators
Spoiler:
That really sucks. We all knew we'd be losing stuff when we got our new full army status, but seeing models like that makes it worse.
Maybe they will get power fists so at least those can be your heavy weapon terminators.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shrapnelsmile wrote: If I were in your shoes, I'd be pissed too. Between that and making the new marines huge, I'm annoyed myself. I only lost 3 Nurgle Bikers, but they were really cool and heavily converted.
I'm kinda sad I can't use bits of my collection, but I can't imagine how it is for people who put a ton of work into their models. I've never been big in the converting and painting side of the hobby, so most of mine still work as other armies albeit with a fairly obvious DG paint job, but for models that have had so much time invested to fit into an army theme to no longer be usable... bleh. It's not fun.
Virules wrote: I guess the real joke is on me; I spent months converting my DG Obliterators and Mutilators
Spoiler:
That really sucks. We all knew we'd be losing stuff when we got our new full army status, but seeing models like that makes it worse.
Maybe they will get power fists so at least those can be your heavy weapon terminators.
Yeah, the heavy weapon guys could be Blightlord termies with blight launchers or reaper auto cannons and swords, and the Mutilators could pass as Deathshrouds.
Leth wrote: I really like the deathshroud terminators but I cant justify the purchase unless we can get a body without the tongue sticking out.
This is a rather strange breaking point lol. Why not just clip it off?
Its the mouth as well breaking up the model I just said tongue to highlight the model I dont like. I cant justify spending 25 bucks on a model I know I wont like probably have to see about getting a body from a bits seller if I do end up getting the kit.
If you're talking about this, there are at least two torso options for the champion, so you need not worry.
Spoiler:
My wallet hates you but I thank you for the info!!
Yeah it sucks certain things that are army specific will be invalidated if you want to maximize access to the rules. Luckily you can still take the models in your army!
For the Deathshroud terminators it is going to be important to be careful with placement since it says any character in range they roll, not MAY roll, they have to roll.
Virules wrote: I guess the real joke is on me; I spent months converting my DG Obliterators and Mutilators
Spoiler:
That really sucks. We all knew we'd be losing stuff when we got our new full army status, but seeing models like that makes it worse.
Maybe they will get power fists so at least those can be your heavy weapon terminators.
If you think losing those conversions sucks for me...
2 Squads of Havocs (Heavy Bolter and Autocannon).
1 squad of Raptors.
1 squad of Obliterators.
Pretty sure my Jump Lord is going to be invalidated.
My Terminators are questionable as well now.
Are nurgle marked terminators that aren't deathguard specific an option in the Deathguard codex or do you have to make a separate detachment in order to use them as a chaos soup army?
warboss wrote: Are nurgle marked terminators that aren't deathguard specific an option in the Deathguard codex or do you have to make a separate detachment in order to use them as a chaos soup army?
Though, to be fair, our CT is narrow enough in scope (three maybe four units benefit from it to any real degree) that you can probably fit everything which needs it in a single detachment, and use any others as mixed detachments. Assuming you didn't want a generic CSM ct for that division.
To be fair, we didn't have DG terminators till the Traitor Legions book, before that the 3.5 codex but there was nothing special beyond fearless and T5. They've always been just Nurgle Terminators up until recent.
But I feels. For Traitor Legions, I converted my FW Deathshroud termies to carry combi plasmas, so now they're a bastard mix of Shrouds and Blight Lords.
Nightlord1987 wrote: To be fair, we didn't have DG terminators till the Traitor Legions book, before that the 3.5 codex but there was nothing special beyond fearless and T5. They've always been just Nurgle Terminators up until recent.
But I feels. For Traitor Legions, I converted my FW Deathshroud termies to carry combi plasmas, so now they're a bastard mix of Shrouds and Blight Lords.
Oblits are easy enough to call Iron Warriors.
To be fair, there was nothing special about Plague Marines beyond T5 and Fearless til the sorry mess of the late 4th edition Codex.
In 3.5 T5 and Fearless was defacto Plague Terminators.
In 3rd we had Plague Terminators as well - don't make me find the original Index Astartes article again....
broxus wrote: Anyone know the final cost of a hauler with all the weapon options included?
135 I think (83+25+27+0+0). Which would be about right for power 7. Which means only 405 points for a squadron of 3, not too shabby.
I just hope the model isn't horrible. I love the bloat drones so you'd think I'd dig the blight hauler but the one image of it we have I think looks awful. I like the art, though, so maybe once we see it from more angles I'll be able to cheerfully buy three...
H.B.M.C. wrote: So...... they've invalidated the squads of anyone who owns these:
Just use them as Chaos Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle?
Man, this approach really pisses me off.
'DUR HURR JUST USE THEM AS X'.
Um. No. They've been Death Guard Terminators for the past 4 editions. They're painted up in my army's colour scheme. They're modelled appropriately too.
And now they suddenly...aren't Death Guard? What?
It means I'm going to have to do a lot of rigging about which is a bastard with the squads as they are.
One squad
- 2 Power Axe/Combi- bolters - fine, I guess?
- 1 combi-flamer/ icon - I suppose the icon can count as about anything so fine.
- 1 Chainfist/combi- flamer
- 1 Power Fist/Heavy Flamer
I suppose if I count the fists as Swords?
Second Squad (in a bone scheme)
1 Power Axe/Combi Bolter - Fine
3 Power Fist/Combi-bolters - uh....
1 Reaper/Power Fist - Uh........
Third Squad
1 Power Sword/combi bolter - Fine
1 Lightning Claw/combi-bolter - Uh....count as a sword?
2 Lightning Claw pairs - Ummmmm....
1 Reaper/Chainfist - Uh......
Well. This is fun. I have to ramshackle something for this weekend out of them. And no, just using a keyword isn't okay. Because that'll require a whole OTHER detachment to field sub-par Terminators. This is what I was fearing...going to be a lot of counts as I guess.
Honestly it's partly your fault for doing such a schizo loadout for each Terminator squad.
Honestly it's partly your fault for doing such a schizo loadout for each Terminator squad.
First squad is done up as a pseudo command squad. Combi-flamers, flamers. The Power Axes are on the original Champion and the LoC that has become the new Champion for the squad.
You say schizo loadout - I say keeping to a theme. The Power Fist/Heavy Flamer is converted up as a techmarine, the Chainfist-combi flamer converted up as an Apothecary, the Icon (Maul), Combi-flamer as a standard bearer. It was also built back when Typhus had a flame template as well - so it was a 4 template squad that drove forward in a Land Raider, disembarked, set fire to things and then assaulted what was left.
The second squad is a direct ape of a standard Imperial Terminator Squad - Powerfists, Reaper, Power Axe on champion instead of power sword. Schizo? Realy? This is a bog standard mockery of an Imperial layout - a bog standard Imperial layout. Perhaps not ZOMG CHEAP COMBI-PLAS spam that you're used to but massed powerfists on top of high toughness, a good save, an invuln and with Traitor Legions FNP pretty much waded into most things and did not care.
The third squad has a bit more variety as it was done as a pseudo-assault squad. And I generally preferred the Tartaros Reaper to the Heavy Flamer. So 2 pairs of lightning claws, a single claw, a single chainfist (in case of dreadnought or vehicle) and a power sword champion. Largely came about due to needing a bit of assaulty oomph in 7th against 'nids and Orks.
Generally champions were kept cheap and cheerful - even more so in 6th and 7th because mandatory challenges rendered them pretty useless (GOTTA CHALLENGE THAT BLOODTHIRSTER YO). Heck, they even served a purpose soaking challenges for other characters that accompanied them.
Honestly, you're being an arse about something you don't even know. Perhaps you're upset I went with flavour rather than running 3 man Termicide squads.
... also is not like chaos terminators with mark of nurgle don't exist anymore or something ... you can have both
See, I never got this argument.
They aren't the same. They don't share Death Guard rules. Therefore they don't belong in an all Death Guard army.
All units in an army should always include the exact same blanket rules, It drives me absolutely nuts when things are different. It completely removes the immersion.
This codex absolutely should have included death guard versions of every unit in the chaos codex. There is absolutely no reason not to. For the exception of other god dedicated units obviously.
... also is not like chaos terminators with mark of nurgle don't exist anymore or something ... you can have both
See, I never got this argument.
They aren't the same. They don't share Death Guard rules. Therefore they don't belong in an all Death Guard army.
All units in an army should always include the exact same blanket rules, It drives me absolutely nuts when things are different. It completely removes the immersion.
This codex absolutely should have included death guard versions of every unit in the chaos codex. There is absolutely no reason not to. For the exception of other god dedicated units obviously.
I hear you brother! Here, waiting for my Sternguards, Vanguard Veterans and Tartaros and Cathapractii terminators for my Dark Angels
But now being honets, I think that subfactions should lose some units to gain some units, because if they just gain units and rules, they end being VanillaCodex+1 (Like Space Wolves in the past), but they should respect past rules to don't make useless things like some Terminators configurations. Theres literally 0 reasons why DG Blightlord Terminators shouldn't have Lighting Claws.
I can see the argument against' warptalons, raptors, bikers, etc... "Death Guard shouldn't have fast units to compensate and have a distinc playstile", but the Terminator move was literally just a money-wise decision.
... also is not like chaos terminators with mark of nurgle don't exist anymore or something ... you can have both
See, I never got this argument.
They aren't the same. They don't share Death Guard rules. Therefore they don't belong in an all Death Guard army.
All units in an army should always include the exact same blanket rules, It drives me absolutely nuts when things are different. It completely removes the immersion.
This codex absolutely should have included death guard versions of every unit in the chaos codex. There is absolutely no reason not to. For the exception of other god dedicated units obviously.
The problem there is then <Subfaction Codex> simply becomes <Main Codex ++++> and all the happy little min-maxers and even people who simply want a competitive army of that type say "feth this for a joke - why would I ever play <Main Codex> when <Subfaction Codex> has everything in it, plus all of the new shiny additional releases.
The fact is that as long as all of the other stuff can still be taken as Chaos guys with or without the Mark of Nurgle in an allied detachment then you can still run them. The only "immersion" that's ultimately removed is a bit of mechanical rules power.
I'm thinking 2x 3-man Deathshroud squads with 4x 5-man Blightlord squads with some characters smattered in.
Maybe a few Poxwalker squads for ObSec?
sounds cool, the elite part of a larger army striking in as poxwalkers overwhelm defences and the terminators go to grab some vital tech/vip/objective/kill some vip dude
The problem there is then <Subfaction Codex> simply becomes <Main Codex ++++> and all the happy little min-maxers and even people who simply want a competitive army of that type say "feth this for a joke - why would I ever play <Main Codex> when <Subfaction Codex> has everything in it, plus all of the new shiny additional releases.
The fact is that as long as all of the other stuff can still be taken as Chaos guys with or without the Mark of Nurgle in an allied detachment then you can still run them. The only "immersion" that's ultimately removed is a bit of mechanical rules power.
Power gaming rules should take a backseat to fluff. You should be able to build any army that exists in the fluff without exception. It's up to the player to decide what they want to run, and up to GW to properly cost things.
Power gaming rules should take a backseat to fluff. You should be able to build any army that exists in the fluff without exception. It's up to the player to decide what they want to run, and up to GW to properly cost things.
But, like, you can do this. As was pointed out to you, you can absolutely bring an army that includes Deathguard-specific units and any Nurgle-marked units from the Chaos codex. Your objection was about "power gaming rules" -- you didn't like that if you did this you wouldn't be able to have 18" rapid-fire on your bolters, I guess. You pretended that your objection was just about them all not having the same rules, but of course you can take Nurgle-marked Chaos Space Marines alongside Death Guard Plague Marines and have them share the same blanket rules -- just include them all in the same detachment.
The problem there is then <Subfaction Codex> simply becomes <Main Codex ++++> and all the happy little min-maxers and even people who simply want a competitive army of that type say "feth this for a joke - why would I ever play <Main Codex> when <Subfaction Codex> has everything in it, plus all of the new shiny additional releases.
The fact is that as long as all of the other stuff can still be taken as Chaos guys with or without the Mark of Nurgle in an allied detachment then you can still run them. The only "immersion" that's ultimately removed is a bit of mechanical rules power.
Power gaming rules should take a backseat to fluff. You should be able to build any army that exists in the fluff without exception. It's up to the player to decide what they want to run, and up to GW to properly cost things.
The problem is that at the end of the day the fluff just exist to create armies to play with, that should have advantages and disadvantages. Dwarfs in Fantasy didn't used magic for a gameplay reason. They could totally use magic if GW fantasy writers wanted, theres dwarfs in other fantasy universes that use magic with no problem. They decided to not do it to create a gameplay mechanic to that faction.
The same applies here. If they want to justify how Death Guard can use bikers and raptors, they will do. If 5 years later they change their minds, they will write off how they don't actually do that with a retcon.
Fluff is all what matters, and at the same time, it doesn't matter.
(I'll repeat that this doesn't apply to the changes in the load outs to Terminators)
I'm thinking 2x 3-man Deathshroud squads with 4x 5-man Blightlord squads with some characters smattered in.
Maybe a few Poxwalker squads for ObSec?
I think it would be fun, but how would they ever get into combat? I feel like you need land raiders or warp time unfortunately. That makes an expensive list even more expensive. Like prohibitively expensive. Maybe in a more fun power points list.
I'm thinking 2x 3-man Deathshroud squads with 4x 5-man Blightlord squads with some characters smattered in.
Maybe a few Poxwalker squads for ObSec?
I think it would be fun, but how would they ever get into combat? I feel like you need land raiders or warp time unfortunately. That makes an expensive list even more expensive. Like prohibitively expensive. Maybe in a more fun power points list.
I'm not too worried about it, the main purpose of this army is ironically anti terminator. A fire d of mine who plays Dark Angels is building up a Deathwing army and he's challenged me. I'm sure combat will be easy-ish seeing how everyone will be deepstriking
sennacherib wrote: Is it just me or does the new typhus model look stupid.
I think there's definitely something off with the pose. He's stepping out with his right leg quite far, and the body is tilted left as a result. The way he's holding his weapon also seems rather silly. Lastly, although it's based off of the metal models, the nurgling on his hip just does not look good. I'm gonna be converting mine to adjust for these things.
He's still got a solid armor sculpt, and the swarm can be painted to look ace!
Thanks, I was going off memory when I responded, I thought he had the 0 cost plague sprayer not the bile spurt. In my defense, the fact we have 6 different plague flamer variants is a bit silly.
But, like, you can do this. As was pointed out to you, you can absolutely bring an army that includes Deathguard-specific units and any Nurgle-marked units from the Chaos codex. Your objection was about "power gaming rules" -- you didn't like that if you did this you wouldn't be able to have 18" rapid-fire on your bolters, I guess. You pretended that your objection was just about them all not having the same rules, but of course you can take Nurgle-marked Chaos Space Marines alongside Death Guard Plague Marines and have them share the same blanket rules -- just include them all in the same detachment.
Ok, nobody pointed anything out to me, and I have no idea what you are talking about with 18" rapid fire bolters.
I'm not pretending anything, as I rightfully pointed out. Nurgle marked key word is not the same thing as Death Guard. Nurgle marked does not give disgustingly resilient or any other blanket special rules that come in the Death Guard codex. Meaning they don't belong to the same army. Yes, you can take them in another detachment, but its absolutely not the same thing.
Nurgle Marked is NOT the same as Death Guard. They do not share blanket rules. It's unfluffy not to put these units in the Death Guard codex and I consider it to be a lazy job.
The problem is that at the end of the day the fluff just exist to create armies to play with, that should have advantages and disadvantages. Dwarfs in Fantasy didn't used magic for a gameplay reason. They could totally use magic if GW fantasy writers wanted, theres dwarfs in other fantasy universes that use magic with no problem. They decided to not do it to create a gameplay mechanic to that faction.
The same applies here. If they want to justify how Death Guard can use bikers and raptors, they will do. If 5 years later they change their minds, they will write off how they don't actually do that with a retcon.
Fluff is all what matters, and at the same time, it doesn't matter.
(I'll repeat that this doesn't apply to the changes in the load outs to Terminators)
Theres nothing wrong with having advantages/disadvantages. I agree with this, however there is precedent for Death Guard Havocs and Bikes etc. They should have been implemented in the codex and their points costs adjusted according to how much the extra blanket special rules would affect them.
While it definitely sucks for people who have models (and I agree that "just play them as Nurgle marked" is a piss poor solution) there's definitely some logic in removing these models in order to make Death Guard its own army rather than just an extension of CSM. Bikers especially are counter to the slow, trudging march concept that Death Guard has going for it. Some sacrifices like this need to be made if you want Death Guard to have its own Cool Stuff rather than just be another type of CSM.
I'm thinking 2x 3-man Deathshroud squads with 4x 5-man Blightlord squads with some characters smattered in.
Maybe a few Poxwalker squads for ObSec?
I have been tinkering with the thought of a Plaguewing type army. I think it would have to be a Vanguard Detachment or two with multiple Terminator squads backed up by Plague Surgeons and Foul Blightspawns. I'm not too worried about them getting across the table - they can double-tap their combi-plasma at 18" away (so 22" threat range every turn) and probably equip a reaper autocannon.
I am still playing with the idea of Warptiming Morty on turn 1 from an allied Sorceror, giving him ~24" of movement on Turn 1, then deep-striking Deathshrouds beside him. We'll see what I can work out point-wise.
If all you have is basically CSM with the MoT you're gonna have a bad time.
Thousands Sons essentially had their own Codex last edition, and have a defined model range at this time. The only thing we'll likely see are additions to their roster.
Brutus_Apex wrote: Nurgle Marked is NOT the same as Death Guard. They do not share blanket rules. It's unfluffy not to put these units in the Death Guard codex and I consider it to be a lazy job.
To be fair, even some Death Guard units don't have the same rules as other Death Guard units. Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed are all 'lesser' for no apparent reason.
If all you have is basically CSM with the MoT you're gonna have a bad time.
Don't know what you're implying there but the current mess with Terminators is particularly bad as, in their current incarnation they've been part of Death Guard armies since the Index Astartes article in 3rd ed. And they didn't have weapon restrictions back then or since. (Note Thousand Sons did - the bugbear with their fixed weapon Terminators is the fact they are Power Swords in a range that has had all of 2 power swords for Terminators since RT era so how the hell were people expected to arm their Terminators with them? Hell, if they were axes it would not only be fine as not only are Power Axes all over the place in the range...the 'sword' (a khopesh) was actually more akin to an axe historically in form and function.)
I'm thinking 2x 3-man Deathshroud squads with 4x 5-man Blightlord squads with some characters smattered in.
Maybe a few Poxwalker squads for ObSec?
I have been tinkering with the thought of a Plaguewing type army. I think it would have to be a Vanguard Detachment or two with multiple Terminator squads backed up by Plague Surgeons and Foul Blightspawns. I'm not too worried about them getting across the table - they can double-tap their combi-plasma at 18" away (so 22" threat range every turn) and probably equip a reaper autocannon.
I am still playing with the idea of Warptiming Morty on turn 1 from an allied Sorceror, giving him ~24" of movement on Turn 1, then deep-striking Deathshrouds beside him. We'll see what I can work out point-wise.
I might throw in some pox walkers and/or plague marines for a battalion, at least if get more command points. Ill wait for the codex to come out before I make a list but I thinks a fun and doable idea
Hey guys, what do you think about a gurgle-themed Dark Mechanicum army? Im planning on having a few units of drones and haulers, along with a tallyman and biologus putrifier, with a unit or two of terminators and/or plugs marines. I'd also kitbash a bunch of skitarii and plaguebearers to make possessed ad mech guys (probably as counts-as pox walkers). What do you think?
People who have a lot of Death Guard incompatible Nurgle stuff might just be better off forgetting about the new codex entirely and just use a different, less restrictive legion's rules.
TheWaspinator wrote: People who have a lot of Death Guard incompatible Nurgle stuff might just be better off forgetting about the new codex entirely and just use a different, less restrictive legion's rules.
Frankly we have so few units that carry over DG feels less like a subset of CSM and more like a totally new army that happens to have a few shared units. Even plague marines might as well be a new unit considering how radically their options changed, using the old version basically restricts you to half the existing options and mixing them looks fairly bad. Playing DG is basically collecting an entirely new army.
That's annoying in some ways, but means I feel less guilty about using my sorta DG painted everything as alpha legion or something.
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broxus wrote: Anyone have a picture of the Blightlords data sheet and the Bloat drone data sheet? I am surprised it has not leaked yet.
Judging by the way every review avoided those pages I think GW may have actually told people not to show them. I have no idea why.
I collect daemons and I have a lot of third party models, and I've spent a lot of time researching other purchases.
It isn't third party, at least nothing current, to my knowledge.
The GUO has been rumoured finished for some time, it isn't impossible that this photo pre dates the current release, or simply that the guy who painted it owns a bunch of old DG.
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Explains why I didn't recognise it, have avoided the Jeremy show like the plague!
broxus wrote: Anyone have a picture of the Blightlords data sheet and the Bloat drone data sheet? I am surprised it has not leaked yet.
Judging by the way every review avoided those pages I think GW may have actually told people not to show them. I have no idea why.
You damn well know why. We all know why. They want to avoid pre-purchase backlash for buggering over their existing playerbase by rendering Terminators moot and then trying to fall back on their keyword system as though it forgives them.
Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.
How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.
Lysenis wrote: Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.
How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.
Ah, this old chestnut.
'GW NEVER PRODUCED DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS!'
Well, they have never produced World Eaters Terminators either.
Or Assault Cannon Razorbacks.
It's not really an assumption to hope that a unit that has been available as an option since 2nd edition for a specific force would be available in 8th edition.
2nd ed Codex - Terminators with Mark of Nurgle become Plague Terminators.
3rd ed - Plague Terminators in Index Astartes.
3.5 Codex - Death Guard have Terminators listed in their restrictive list.
4th ed - Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle exist.
6th ed and Traitor Legions - Hey look, Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle and no exemption in Traitor Legions.
Plague Units are NOT deathguard***. The only unit you got a threadbare hold on is the FW Death guard Terminator Upgrade set.
I'm sorry you cant use your Old pre-8th edition Counts-as-deathguard-but-is-really-CSM-with-MoN Units as new army Deathguard units.
You can use *some* of you units, but not those.
Now. I'm NOT SAYING it doesnt suck. It does. but i *highly* doubt GW will Release rules allowing you to use your CSM stuff as deathguard.
Thats the end of it im afraid unless GW do something about it.
Are 40k Deathshroud units These Old Deathguard Termie's? Nope.
Are 40k Blightlord Termis the same Units in game as my Old edition Death guard termis?: Nope.
Are these Units still viable in 8th edition? whats there place?: In a CSM army they are still fully functioning terminator squads, with More wargear options and less special rules.
If i wisywig build These as Blightlords that cool?: Hell yes!
I really dont see the issue apart from "Oh. Some of my old units from a differant army cant be used with this new armys codex"...... *que screeching on dakka dakka*
*** All deathguard units in previous editions have been "chaos + mark of nurgle" with *maybe SOME* special rules added on top in 6th
Holy cow, are we really at the point where people are calling Death Guard armies made before 8th proxies and the equivalent of having a Squat army using IG rules?
Lysenis wrote: Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.
How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.
Ah, this old chestnut.
'GW NEVER PRODUCED DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS!'
Well, they have never produced World Eaters Terminators either.
Or Assault Cannon Razorbacks.
It's not really an assumption to hope that a unit that has been available as an option since 2nd edition for a specific force would be available in 8th edition.
2nd ed Codex - Terminators with Mark of Nurgle become Plague Terminators.
3rd ed - Plague Terminators in Index Astartes.
3.5 Codex - Death Guard have Terminators listed in their restrictive list.
4th ed - Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle exist.
6th ed and Traitor Legions - Hey look, Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle and no exemption in Traitor Legions.
So here's an idea.
Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on it!
So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?
Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?
What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?
Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.
I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.
Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.
zerosignal wrote: Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.
I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.
Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.
Is there any reason why you wouldn't reuse them for another legion? I think that many of us are in a similar boat with lots and lots of units which can't be used any more. I think many of us are going to spin these into opportunities to start new legions!
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Holy cow, are we really at the point where people are calling Death Guard armies made before 8th proxies and the equivalent of having a Squat army using IG rules?
Just... what.
Jesus No.
They existed. I had 3000pts of the bastards. Playing deathguard Pre-8th has just been CSM + Nurgle, which was fun, had its highs and lows. But it was mainly all in the name of your army list header & paint scheme. But lets not kid ourselves.
They're now a whole Army in there own right with there own codex (seriously, some of my dreams have been made of this...) Most of the Death guard Line is brand spanking new. Including two Terminator Squads unique to the Death Guard, one of wich fills the role of the Chaos Terminator squads from the other codex. If you had Old Nurgle Terminators and your NOT WILLING to re-model them (eg: convert) to fill the role and equip of the Blightlords and you still want them in your Death guard army. you can't. Im really sorry. There not a part of this armys (DG) roster. Go look in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Thats where you'll find where you can use them without converting your already owned models.
If you ARE willing to convert. Go nuts. there is literally nothing stopping you or I from hopping over to the FW website. grabbing a weapon set or two, making your old models ready for the new Dex' There's also nothing stopping you from Buying the conversion pack from FW, a terminator squad from GW and kitbashing a whole squad if you dont like the look of the blightlords.
My rather long point is: It sucks. Complain by all means. But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone when the responce is "Hey it sucks. But if you want X to be in your army but cant becuase of its loadout, convert it to Y and your golden. Or use it as Z and Just Buy Y."
So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?
Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?
What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?
Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.
Would you like the Index Astartes article?
Or the 3.5 Codex?
Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.
Implying those are Death Guard units.
Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.
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Sharazad87 wrote: But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.
And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.
May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators
Edit: Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.
I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?
Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.
And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.
And yet it still exists as an option in the SM Codex.
Pretty much taking the whole 'Oh, but GW don't produce models for X so they won't be in the codex' theory and showing that to be a load of apologist gak. Or are you somehow going to try and backpedal here?
May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators
No less than 15 of them and they've won awards for how they are modelled. As part of a Death Guard army. If you are asking if I'm willing to destroy already converted miniatures to fill an arbitrary role then you seriously don't belong in this hobby. Mind you, from your history? You're either someone's alt account or very, very new and apparently White Knighting your hardest to justify this whole sorry affair.
Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.
That's why you had to edit a post before it got a mod strike, hmm? You're not really being logical. You are White Knighting so hard that I'm rather concerned you're going to pop a hernia from the effort.
Jeez DarkStarSabre, there is really no need to be this hostile and make so many wild accusations against people. You're being exceptionally condescending.
Just letting them have the normal HTH weapons (Power Fist, Chain Fist, Lightning Claws, Power Mace) would'a been fine. Solved the whole damned problem.
I mean they can get the usual Combi-Weapons, Reapers and a new "Plague" Heavy Flamer, so why not the others?
But then there's the whole problem of Death Guard Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed just being the regular units. Nothing about them is "Nurgle". It makes zero sense. That's an even bigger problem than invalidated units of Terminators (like my Hvy Flamer/Lightning Claw guys, or my Lord w/Lightning Claws, or any of them with Fists/Chainfists).
Qlanth wrote: I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?
Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.
This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.
Wait. They do. Plus some.
Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.
Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....
Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'
The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.
Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....
But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?
All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.
'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'
And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.
We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.
P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.
And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.
And yet it still exists as an option in the SM Codex.
Pretty much taking the whole 'Oh, but GW don't produce models for X so they won't be in the codex' theory and showing that to be a load of apologist gak. Or are you somehow going to try and backpedal here?
May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators
No less than 15 of them and they've won awards for how they are modelled. As part of a Death Guard army. If you are asking if I'm willing to destroy already converted miniatures to fill an arbitrary role then you seriously don't belong in this hobby. Mind you, from your history? You're either someone's alt account or very, very new and apparently White Knighting your hardest to justify this whole sorry affair.
Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.
That's why you had to edit a post before it got a mod strike, hmm? You're not really being logical. You are White Knighting so hard that I'm rather concerned you're going to pop a hernia from the effort.
Erm. Way to take it down the personal route. I'm 30, been gaming with 40k since I was 15. I check my posts for major errors and to make sure I'm getting the point i want to make across. I am however new ish to dakka, but not the net nor forums. I have never received nor Fear receiving a warning from the mods, would i listen to one. Yes.
You dont want to Take a tool to your "Award winning" models. Cool. I get that. You're salty becuase with the release of the Death guard Codex You cannot use them in a death guard army "as-is", You have the OPTION to use them a MoN Terminators in a CSM force. But you dont want to. Also cool. Your only option if you want to have Terminators in your death guard army is to buy the new packs.
Do i feel sorry for you for being in this situation: Yes.
Am i "white knighting" no, not that i can see. Could i have worded things better. Probably.
Anyhoo. this has gone off the rails quite long enough. if you want to continue this conversation, please feel free to Pm me if you feel the need to, id happily talk it out with you.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just letting them have the normal HTH weapons (Power Fist, Chain Fist, Lightning Claws, Power Mace) would'a been fine. Solved the whole damned problem.
I mean they can get the usual Combi-Weapons, Reapers and a new "Plague" Heavy Flamer, so why not the others?
But then there's the whole problem of Death Guard Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed just being the regular units. Nothing about them is "Nurgle". It makes zero sense. That's an even bigger problem than invalidated units of Terminators (like my Hvy Flamer/Lightning Claw guys, or my Lord w/Lightning Claws, or any of them with Fists/Chainfists).
This right here.
Sir, you make so much sense it hurts.
The generic units (Lords, Sorcerers, Possessed) is really questionable, especially when you consider that said units are meant to be exemplars within the Legion. To be inherently weaker than baseline troops is....well...quite frankly terrible.
'Oh, but just having the plague marines rules would be very dull.'
Well....those rules are sort of the appeal of the Death Guard army. They give the units resilience. Resilience is kind of their thing. You're a small elite army that can weather an insane amount of damage but are insanely vulnerable to hordes or elite multiple attack assault units.
If you felt that applying rules that embodied the Legion's whole schtick makes it...dull...well, perhaps this isn't the army for you.
I mean, dull is kind of what it is. That's the point. Death Guard were never shiny spangly top hat wearing jazz hand making ponces. Those are Emperor's Children. Death Guard are sombre, resilient and monotonous in their nature. A hard rock. Not pretty, not elegant, just very proficient at what they do - surviving.
Qlanth wrote: I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?
Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.
This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.
Wait. They do. Plus some.
Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.
Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....
Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'
The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.
Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....
But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?
All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.
'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'
And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.
We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.
P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.
There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.
And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.
Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.
I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.
DarkStarSabre wrote: I mean, dull is kind of what it is. That's the point. Death Guard were never shiny spangly top hat wearing jazz hand making ponces. Those are Emperor's Children. Death Guard are sombre, resilient and monotonous in their nature. A hard rock. Not pretty, not elegant, just very proficient at what they do - surviving.
I want my Death Guard army to embody what it means to be a Chaos Space Marine Legion dedicated to the Chaos God of Decay, with all the boons and burdens that come with such devotion.
Except for my Lords, and my Sorcerers, and my Possessed. Them I want to be the same as they are in the regular Marine Codex. Don't want to get too wild after all.
So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?
Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?
What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?
Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.
Would you like the Index Astartes article?
Spoiler:
Or the 3.5 Codex?
Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.
Implying those are Death Guard units.
Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.
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Sharazad87 wrote: But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone
Physician, heal thyself.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.
The Flail is the only new thing. The swords and axes are just 'Plague' power swords and axes. And oh, hey, look once again to the listed examples and see how they too have some unique options they can take as well as older pre-existing ones that don't completely invalidate armies that have been around 6 editions.
And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.
And the catch is that the Blood Angel, SW and DA players didn't have units completely invalidated and written off, to be constantly fobbed off with 'DURR HURR FIELD THEM AS GENERIC TERMINATORS WITH X' because the generic armaments were still viable. Perhaps you missed that. I've not got generic Nurgle Terminators. I've got Death Guard Terminators. They have been painted in the same scheme as the rest of their Legion. They match their Legion in aesthetic, from the pustules, the tones of green, the basing and the weathered weaponry.
Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.
Because Less is More, right? Because differences in abilities, stats etc are factored in through points (wait, they are) so clearly you gotta gut even more out to be diverse, right?
I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.
You do realise you are hardline stating that reducing options is making something more diverse, right? Giving less choice makes things less diverse. If there is no choice between A, B and C then really, it's not diverse at all.
Thats 4 codex release threads that ave all included some drama queen stating "its time to sell up".
Full line-up of faction specific infantry, tanks and a Primarch which vanilla CSM dont have access to and yet people whining because of what? that you'd loose a tiny bit of functionality by running a faction keyword- chaos army instead of DG in which you could use your havocs and terminators.
GW cant win against people who enjoy whinging about the hobby more than doing it.
I'm glad I ran out of money when I did because I was gonna convert some WE havocs: I was gonna model them as Berzerkers running round with a Chainsword in one hand and hip firing a Lascannon/Heavy Bolter with the other. But now I've seen this it has come to my attention that there probably won't be any Havocs in the WE codex (when it finally comes out).
Trying to rack my brain to think of any other units I've done/was thinking of doing that won't be in the WE codex.
Qlanth wrote: I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?
Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.
This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.
Wait. They do. Plus some.
Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.
Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....
Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'
The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.
Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....
But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?
All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.
'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'
And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.
We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.
P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.
OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?
You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.
And Death Guard models that are unique and not just parroted versions? Did you miss the Helbrute, Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed? Which could have EASILY had their profiles rolled into existing counterparts to add some...actual variety? Do you honestly think that half our units aren't literally just Plague versions of existing CSM units?
There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.
The Flail is the only new thing. The swords and axes are just 'Plague' power swords and axes. And oh, hey, look once again to the listed examples and see how they too have some unique options they can take as well as older pre-existing ones that don't completely invalidate armies that have been around 6 editions.
And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.
And the catch is that the Blood Angel, SW and DA players didn't have units completely invalidated and written off, to be constantly fobbed off with 'DURR HURR FIELD THEM AS GENERIC TERMINATORS WITH X' because the generic armaments were still viable. Perhaps you missed that. I've not got generic Nurgle Terminators. I've got Death Guard Terminators. They have been painted in the same scheme as the rest of their Legion. They match their Legion in aesthetic, from the pustules, the tones of green, the basing and the weathered weaponry.
Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.
Because Less is More, right? Because differences in abilities, stats etc are factored in through points (wait, they are) so clearly you gotta gut even more out to be diverse, right?
I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.
You do realise you are hardline stating that reducing options is making something more diverse, right? Giving less choice makes things less diverse. If there is no choice between A, B and C then really, it's not diverse at all.
To your second point, my actual position is that I think it would have been much more interesting if those SM Chapters had access to terminators with entirely distinct rules and weapon options in the first place. I wouldn't really mind if Salamanders lost the ability to take lightning claws and Blood Angels lost the ability to take Flamers or something. Give them more unique models, give them more unique weapons that fulfill similar roles.
So, yes, in my mind reducing options is more diverse because it makes it so the Black Legion army I play against isn't functionally identical to the Thousand Sons army I play against. Thousand Sons have less weapon options but they also have access to visually distinct models and styles of play that are specifically possible because of their unique rules AND limitations.
If you want to play a game where every single army is basically identical 30k is right there waiting for you.
For me, I'm disappointed that I'm losing the two squads of terminators I have but I'm happy to see fantastic new models with new, distinct weapons. I'll be happy to start up a new Legion with some perfectly legal CSM terminators along with the other models I can't use any more. Again, I'm perfectly fine with this because it means my army is going to be visually distinct and play differently because it has different limitations while simultaneously having different options.
To be perfectly honest with you, I would love to see a 40k game where any army you put down on the table plays completely distinctly and looks different too. I don't like that the only differentiator is colors for have the SM chapters. I fully support limiting the options for some of those armies if it means they also get some brand new options and models to replace them.
OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.
Ok, now that you've attempted sass go read the background fluff on the Death Guard as a legion. All of it. The IA article, the stuff in the 2nd edition codex, Titan Legions, the 3.5 book and the more recent 30k stuff. I'll wait.
You'll find there's one constant - the Death Guard always maintained their equipment. It was simple, not very ornate and functional. Even AFTER their fall to Chaos the weapons and equipment they used are simple to maintain and functional. They're not scavenging armour. They're not desperate for new equipment, weapons or gear. The Death Guard actually maintain their equipment. Because it is simple and straightforward, because it is maintained and functional it isn't rotting away into nothingness.
If you really think that 'OH BUT THEY WORSHIP NURGLE' is a reason to cull options that are still present on other units in the same army then why not jump the shark and model your army with no weapons or armour whatsoever. Because Decay isn't always physical ROT AND RUST. There's a more philosophical aspect with the Death Guard and there always has been - the decay of their very souls.
And you know what's really damn amusing? You try to quote the fact that they have the Plague Planet as a reason NOT to have a functional armoury and equipment.
Um....quite the opposite. The Legions that are scavenging armour, weapons and the like? Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Renegades in general - all of whom do not have their own world and thus do not have their own industry, space to store things and keep things or indeed a moment to settle down and actually maintain things. Those are mobile rag tag warbands or fleet based for the most part. Quite different from a Legion with its own planet.
You know, that was known for having well maintained equipment that though simple was functional.
Are they still making "Death Guard Havocs"?
Were they ever making Blood Angel or Dark Angel Devastators?
I'll just add right now that I'm actually disappointed that things like Chaos Lords and Sorcerors were included in the army without even a DR roll included. I would honestly have rather seen some more options for the Lord of Contagion or the Malignant Plaguecaster. I wouldn't have been sad if they didn't even include them in the codex.
Qlanth wrote: I'll just add right now that I'm actually disappointed that things like Chaos Lords and Sorcerors were included in the army without even a DR roll included. I would honestly have rather seen some more options for the Lord of Contagion or the Malignant Plaguecaster. I wouldn't have been sad if they didn't even include them in the codex.
Really, they should have been rolled into the LoC and Plaguecaster entries and those should have been given more options. It would made far more sense - sure, we lose the Lord's reroll ability....but that is instead on the Daemon Prince. It's sort of a price to pay and hey, that would actually add variety to us rather than a cut and paste character which is inherently weaker than its surroundings.
I also feel Cultists could have been merged with Poxwalkers and options thrown in there. A bit more costly but a bit more reslient and again, a unique unit with a unique feel, not a cut and paste job that we got.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?
You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.
And Death Guard models that are unique and not just parroted versions? Did you miss the Helbrute, Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed? Which could have EASILY had their profiles rolled into existing counterparts to add some...actual variety? Do you honestly think that half our units aren't literally just Plague versions of existing CSM units?
So unique. Much variety, wow.
Yes yes, because Codex: CSM v2 Plague Edition is so much more appealing and would make CSM players so happy to buy a brand new codex because it has all the better options.
Of course that won't make players salty or upset. No no of course not.
Half our units eh? Hmmm CSM has a non Plague Mortar? A non Plague Trike? Terminator Guard squads? A non Plague Primarch? Non Plague Zombies? A Non Plague non Chaos Lord with heavy CC limitations? A non Plague non Sorcerer caster with a unique casting for ability? Oh oh what about a non Plague Drone with a Fleshmower!
Wow, yea, I guess CSM does have all the non Ague versions of our stuff. Who knew.
Ohhh arguments on a time period where the CEO at the time stated they were a Model making Company and not a Game making company. Yea! Let's dig into that one.
So, now we have a CEO who is about combining the modeling aspect with the game aspect, the old CEO is now fully gone (though was being circumvented by the current CEO when possible), the new CEO is trying to make factions more diverse and unique (at least on the Chaos side, still early for the rest of the Marines) and is bringing out the big fluff monster Primarch leaving people to create more narrative and have more fun.
Well gosh darn, I guess them adding a small amount of Land Raider variants during 6th was big. Maybe as big as a WHOLE NEW TANK CHASSIS! /Le Gasp! Just think, the fortune spent in adding a sprue or two to existing boxes! It is completely comparable to a new tank with 2-4 new sprues that likely took 1-2 molds that run several thousands of dollars each to initially create. All for a niche faction with a niche market in an already expensive hobby when many players already have the models they want to ay with.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?
You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.
I have to disagree here. Is obvius that if they do that is to put extra mileage to the same kits and moulds. If one kit allows to 7 different unit entries, is gonna sell much more than having 7 different kits to cover the same roster of units.
Theres no "aesthetic" or other kind of "good faith" reason to do that, just a marketing and economical reason, just the same as the reason why they have restricted the weapon options of Death Guard special Terminators.
OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.
Ok, now that you've attempted sass go read the background fluff on the Death Guard as a legion. All of it. The IA article, the stuff in the 2nd edition codex, Titan Legions, the 3.5 book and the more recent 30k stuff. I'll wait.
You'll find there's one constant - the Death Guard always maintained their equipment. It was simple, not very ornate and functional. Even AFTER their fall to Chaos the weapons and equipment they used are simple to maintain and functional. They're not scavenging armour. They're not desperate for new equipment, weapons or gear. The Death Guard actually maintain their equipment. Because it is simple and straightforward, because it is maintained and functional it isn't rotting away into nothingness.
If you really think that 'OH BUT THEY WORSHIP NURGLE' is a reason to cull options that are still present on other units in the same army then why not jump the shark and model your army with no weapons or armour whatsoever. Because Decay isn't always physical ROT AND RUST. There's a more philosophical aspect with the Death Guard and there always has been - the decay of their very souls.
And you know what's really damn amusing? You try to quote the fact that they have the Plague Planet as a reason NOT to have a functional armoury and equipment.
Um....quite the opposite. The Legions that are scavenging armour, weapons and the like? Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Renegades in general - all of whom do not have their own world and thus do not have their own industry, space to store things and keep things or indeed a moment to settle down and actually maintain things. Those are mobile rag tag warbands or fleet based for the most part. Quite different from a Legion with its own planet.
You know, that was known for having well maintained equipment that though simple was functional.
Are they still making "Death Guard Havocs"?
Were they ever making Blood Angel or Dark Angel Devastators?
Yes yes, because puss filled, pocked marked armor is well maintained and taken care of. Nurglings and necrotic mouths sprouting from the armor is "well maintained", because bodies literally fused with their armor have such an easy time in removing it and polishing it.
Yup, well taken care of.
Old fluff meet new fluff, want to take a guess at which one takes precedence?
Most of those mentioned legions have planets. Hell, I remember a book with Word Bearers complaining about armor and scavenging parts from fallen loyalists
I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
Edit: Maybe they don't "suck", but they're definitely meh.
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
He's the one that makes your bases better though isn't he?
I have to say I side with the folks being upset that their army has been largely invalidated. It's shamefully obvious that there's a large "force them to buy the new models" approach going on here. This, coupled with the "no rules without a precise kit" continued approach is really souring me on 40K pretty quickly. Is it easier and more approachable when they go buy this method? Sure. Buy this box. Use these weapons. Done.
From a hobbying, modeling perspective it's pretty crap. While I was initially pretty happy with 8th ed., my enthusiasm has waned quite a bit. I am rapidly going back to 2nd ed. revisions as my preferred method of play.
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
It's GW's job to accurately portray the fluff and lore of their universe, not ours.
The Deathguard Codex fails spectacularly to do this on so many levels that its just really not funny, and I am likely not going to purchase it. I won't congratulate GW for butchering their own children.
Also, nobody said they handled the TS army right either. Fact is, GW screwed up. You can own it and hold them accountable, and make the game, world and multiverse a better place, or ruin it by insistently preaching GW's praise even when they light the house on fire.
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.
Mea cupla. Not out of production... but it is still Forge World. Given the number of units removed from 7th and 8th Edition Codexes due to no current (or any) kit and Chaos Terminators not being in the Index, there should be zero surprise here. The rules in the codex cover the kits (soon to be) available and nothing else.
Looks like time to contact Forge World for rules for the upgrade pack.
I agree that people who've been playing for a while have been screwed over. The Primaris didn't really step on any toes as it wasn't rewriting but adding. Whereas this new DG release is a total rewrite of current players' collections. Which I guess they wanted to do to allow new players to come in with a slightly cleaner way of doing so. However, it's probably not the best way of going about it, as it's invalidated a lot of people's models which they've spent a LOT of money on. So I can understand frustration.
I'm one of the lucky ones who has been interested in DG for a while but I've never collected them until now so I can get stuck into the new models without any problems. But I'm really sorry for those who've spent a lot of money and time in their armies and have now got to deal with them being essentially binned.
However, does everyone have to get so triggered by some dudes saying some things on the internet? Luckily the codex is out today so I won't have to worry about this thread being closed at least
If everyone could stop complaining about you models that "you can't use, because they aren't in this codex." It is getting really old and you all sound like whiny little girls who didn't get their Justin Bebber tickets. Get over it, there isn't gak you can do about it now. Either suck it up or go buy new models. We all know we all were going to do that anyway. I don't want to here this, " I shouldn't have too buy new models" because it isn't a secret that GW is in it to make money, so stop complaining and move on good lord. This thread has turned into one giant cry fest.
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
It's GW's job to accurately portray the fluff and lore of their universe, not ours.
The Deathguard Codex fails spectacularly to do this on so many levels that its just really not funny, and I am likely not going to purchase it. I won't congratulate GW for butchering their own children.
Also, nobody said they handled the TS army right either. Fact is, GW screwed up. You can own it and hold them accountable, and make the game, world and multiverse a better place, or ruin it by insistently preaching GW's praise even when they light the house on fire.
Oi vey. It isn't GW's job to honor the fluff you want. Why don't you see what the Blightlord fluff and Deathshroud fluff is and see why they did what they did.
Other than that, it STILL your expectations and assumptions that are pissing in your cereal. GW followed their prior trends and the Index was a HUGE hint on what would or would not be in the codex.
Urgh, what a profoundly disappointing release, a wasted opportunity of staggering magnitude
Decades of collecting Death Guard and I will not be buying a single thing from this release.
Look back through every Death Guard model ever released and you may find the odd tentacle, maybe an occasional bell. You will not find bells everywhere and tentacles growing from every orifice.
The background has been shredded and discarded in favour of the new aesthetic, and everyone who collected Death Guard before 8th can go hang as far as GW is concerned
"Mortarion preferred to utilise huge waves of infantry, well-equipped and highly-trained on an individual level. He demanded that they be able to function and fight in almost any kind of atmosphere, and gave little emphasis on specialised units using jump packs or bikes. In fact, the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."
Now, we don't even have bolt pistols, and some of his warriors discard their bolters in favour of medieval close combat weapons
"Their weapons and armor were rarely the most expertly artificed, certainly not the most beautifully-ornamented, but functioned without flaw"
...and yet all of our Vindicators spontaneously combusted. As, apparently, did our Terminator powerfists. Maybe they got redistributed to all the Plague Champions who are now wielding them.
"The combat doctrine which served the Death Guard so well in life now suits the damned character of the Plague Marines to perfection."
...Up until the Indomitus crusade, when Mortarion finally emerged from the Plague Planet, and coincidentally his legion decided to utterly abandon his teachings.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
Spoiler:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
He's the one that makes your bases better though isn't he?
Reading this thread it's hard to believe people are even discussing the same release. Either people utterly loathe it or they love it. There seems to be no inbetween at all.
zerosignal wrote: Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.
I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.
Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.
I think this is the bit that annoys me the most. We've had GW release rules for a bunch of DG units less than a year ago, only for those units to not even be usable by DG anymore. It's one thing to invalidate a model someone bought a decade ago, they still got a lot of usage out of it. But if you bought DG havocs or raptors or whatever due to traitor legions, you had those in your army for less than 6 months. It's really obnoxious and something that continues to anger me when I'm reminded of it.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Really, they should have been rolled into the LoC and Plaguecaster entries and those should have been given more options. It would made far more sense - sure, we lose the Lord's reroll ability....but that is instead on the Daemon Prince. It's sort of a price to pay and hey, that would actually add variety to us rather than a cut and paste character which is inherently weaker than its surroundings.
I also feel Cultists could have been merged with Poxwalkers and options thrown in there. A bit more costly but a bit more reslient and again, a unique unit with a unique feel, not a cut and paste job that we got.
I also find people actively upset that our army was not made worse for arbitrary fluff reasons kinda annoying. They gave us the units as DG. I'm okay with that. If you don't like the rules, don't use them, but don't ask they remove variety from our army. The fact you are asking them to remove good units to force people to use bad ones baffles me.
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Qlanth wrote: Reading this thread it's hard to believe people are even discussing the same release. Either people utterly loathe it or they love it. There seems to be no inbetween at all.
I'm in the middle
Pros:
New models are great
Many of the new units have interesting rules
A lot of fluffy and thematic elements
Cons:
My old DG army barely qualifies as DG Some removed units and loadouts are very arbitrary, despite being included in the DG army list released 9 months ago
Some shared units lacking thematic abilities (this bothers me very little personally, but it is a valid critique)
It's an excellent release for new players. For older players with existing DG armies it's a lot more questionable.
Well, it appears my laziness in assembling my two units of Forgeworld Plague marine terminators has PAID OFF!!
So, would much of this argument be sated if GW just said you could use Power fists and Chainfists (and I guess heavy flamers too) with blightlord terminators? Aside from the HF, they do seem pretty nurgly, I mean, the forgeworld dread... sorry, HELL BRUTES!!!!!... Had a nurgly power fist & Chainfist option (las cannon & heavy bolter too), so why not dem Termies? Oh well.
Speaking of the blightlords, does anyone know if their shoulder pads are attached to their arms? I will probably add their arms to my FW Plaguemarine terminator bodies, and the FW shoulder plates are separate, so, if the blightlord ones are attached, I could use them somewhere else.
I'm kind of hoping GW does something like that skull basing pack they just did, but with Nurglings when the Nurgle demons come out. That would be AMAZING!!
So the Deathshroud is kind of snapfit and allow two different builds and different heads. Like the primaris gravis dudes.
I will pass on them and hope that the blightlords are truly multi-part.
I am not too sour because I started making my DG army right before 8th was announced. After a month or 2 of gathering the models and painting them is when 8th was announced, and shortly after that DG was in the starter box.
Again I was lucky that I made my Plague Marines with the FW kit, and the metal and resin Plague Marines. So I lucked out with 4x 7man PM squads, a Helbrute, and a couple Rhinos. I never started my FW terminators due to them not being in the index. I never finished my Havoc squads either.
So I made it through pretty well. BUT....if I would have started 9 months or more ago.....I would NOT be happy now. I had planned for 2x 5man termies, a Heldrake, and squad of bikes. I totally feel the bitterness of people who did start years ago. Especially with the conversion that goes into them.
I am on the fence. New dex, new models, new flavor, etc. etc. , at the same time the invalidation of some models feels lazy and stupid, and making the excuse of "fluff wise" or "because" is an insult. They want you to buy new models, plain and simple. That is the only reason. I understand its a business, but they could have come up with a better way to encourage new purchases, and not force it. (I.E. Plague Terminator Upgrade Pack - with Baleswords and Axes) etc. etc...
mrhappyface wrote: All right, but what is their cost actual points and not namby pamby power?
190 pts. for 5 with 4 w/Combi-Plasma and Bubotic Axes, 1 w/Reaper Autocannon and Bubotic Axe.
Only 190pts!? What's the problem then? Or do you mean 290pts?
Typo. Yes, 290.
Right so a normal Terminators are 31pts base and Blightlords are 38pts, you pay only 7pts more for a 4++ save, a 5+++ save, T5, an interesting ability and access to the DG tactic. This seems very reasonably priced, why is everyone crying?
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: So the Deathshroud is kind of snapfit and allow two different builds and different heads. Like the primaris gravis dudes.
I will pass on them and hope that the blightlords are truly multi-part.
Truly? Are the arms not seperate?
Looks like I might be just buying the upgrade set and the FW Terminators then.
mrhappyface wrote: All right, but what is their cost actual points and not namby pamby power?
190 pts. for 5 with 4 w/Combi-Plasma and Bubotic Axes, 1 w/Reaper Autocannon and Bubotic Axe.
Only 190pts!? What's the problem then? Or do you mean 290pts?
Typo. Yes, 290.
Right so a normal Terminators are 31pts base and Blightlords are 38pts, you pay only 7pts more for a 4++ save, a 5+++ save, T5, an interesting ability and access to the DG tactic. This seems very reasonably priced, why is everyone crying?
Also, access to a cheap reroll on Disgusting Resilient rolls of 1. So, 2+/4++/5+++ (w/reroll of 1). Not to mention a strategem that can bring one back to life each turn! I love it.
mrhappyface wrote: All right, but what is their cost actual points and not namby pamby power?
190 pts. for 5 with 4 w/Combi-Plasma and Bubotic Axes, 1 w/Reaper Autocannon and Bubotic Axe.
Only 190pts!? What's the problem then? Or do you mean 290pts?
Typo. Yes, 290.
Right so a normal Terminators are 31pts base and Blightlords are 38pts, you pay only 7pts more for a 4++ save, a 5+++ save, T5, an interesting ability and access to the DG tactic. This seems very reasonably priced, why is everyone crying?
Because people complain about everything? I would kill for Terminators like that in ANY of my armies. Instead I get Ignore Cover and a useless building wrecking ability. Also, my Warlord has, quite possibly, one of the worst traits in all of 40K. Death Guard are going to be insanely powerful.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: So the Deathshroud is kind of snapfit and allow two different builds and different heads. Like the primaris gravis dudes.
I will pass on them and hope that the blightlords are truly multi-part.
I expect all Nurgle kits to be like Blight Kings. But those are five bodies and between heads, bellies and weapons make very distinct dudes (even more with light or advanced converting). It's seriously impressive what can be done with those relatively few parts.
The Deathshroud we've seen so far look like their two builds are not so different from each other. I guess we'll see tomorrow , but I'd be very disappointed if the Nurgle kits turn out like the very same-y models from the Thousand Sons sorcerers box - and there you at least have a floating guy that always looks the same with a different hat, a disc guy with interchangable hats etc..
The Blight Kings kit is the pinacle of "Monopose but with personalization" that GW has done.. Really, theres more personalization in that kit, even if you can do max 6-7 different posses that in any multipart plastic kits in existance.
BlueBiscuit wrote: I feel kind of left out by the bitterness in this thread, as someone who just started with the DI box. I kinda want to be salty too now
What's everyone's hoping for next week's DG release? I personally wish for the blightlord kit and either the Bloat drone or the plagueburst crawler.
You'd better watch out, you get a time out for pasting up clever pictures like that....
Even though I 100% agree...
Honestly, the salt must flow and will be apparent when you start seeing a few more lickies and chewies show up in the additional new car smell Dex's coming out. You're honestly too early to the party, seeing as you got the very first Codex's of the game.
One I can see already is the Cultist Wave, that is going to hose people. I love it. Second is going to be the Blight Drone swarm. You can't have too many.
Bring on the tears!
“He who controls the salt controls the universe.” Baron Harkonnen
Those are some strange sprues for a...Infantry-Elite unit. They seem more like... character sprues. Well, with their cost in money and points I suppose they are basically a unit of 3-6 characters...
I suppose my Deathsrouds will be conversions from Bligthlords... please Bligthlords, be like Blight Kings (In bitz number) and I'll buy 6 boxes of you!
Galas wrote: Theres some variety, it mentions 7 different heads, but yeah, I don't understand this sprue layout.
I think each sprue makes a separate Deathsroud dude.
1) There are 7 different heads to give you variety, including one bare head for champion.
2) The smoke with flies in it is optional and you can leave it off the bone stacks. Thank you GW!
3) Each guy is monopause. The only options to exchange other than head is that the champion can get an extra plaguespurter gauntlet for his left forearm. The other option is the bell relic held in the right hand of the champion.
These guys are essentially character strength infantry, and quite complex in terms of poses. (All 2 handed weapon models have fixed arm poses)
So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?
Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?
What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?
Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.
Would you like the Index Astartes article?
Or the 3.5 Codex?
Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.
Implying those are Death Guard units.
Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.
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Sharazad87 wrote: But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone
Physician, heal thyself.
Ironically enough you just nailed the coffin shut on people clamoring for bikes and raptors with those images.
We still have some questions unanswered regarding their equipment
Im basically having to re-build all my lists anyways 
