Vorian wrote: Khaine is dead and can't come back because she has his heart - so she reaps the benefit of the Khaibe worship... as far as I understand it anyway!
This is correct...ish. The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
Mathlann's a whole different deal since his essence was completely destroyed during the End Times and belief in him is basically nonexistent at this point. There's been no Prophetess of Mathlann predicting his secondcoming or suggesting that they can find him and bring him back or holding a relic of him to keep him from 'returning'.
The vibe I got from the description of their cities was very, very, very...interesting. They mentioned cities within magical bubbles and coral and ivory and bone 'sung' into shapes for the city structures proper. Each of the cities(called "Enclaves") has a kind of "soulbank" for when times get lean and they can't get souls from raiding.
Hmmmm... shame these count as order, and not death (given the whole soul harvest aspect) - missed opp to expand that fa iron a little in an innovative manner.
You might roll your eyes at the sea life--but apparently it's a critical part of the Idoneth.
Their "Forgotten Nightmare" rule, where the enemy is fluffed as having "forgotten" to see them? It's because the Isharaan are extremely skilled in mind magic. They lost a lot of people to fighting the beasts of the deep early on and just decided to enslave them instead.
So now they have "bondbeasts" like that lil' bit that serve as familiars/"protectors" for them.
Kanluwen wrote: You might roll your eyes at the sea life--but apparently it's a critical part of the Idoneth.
Their "Forgotten Nightmare" rule, where the enemy is fluffed as having "forgotten" to see them? It's because the Isharaan are extremely skilled in mind magic. They lost a lot of people to fighting the beasts of the deep early on and just decided to enslave them instead.
So now they have "bondbeasts" like that lil' bit that serve as familiars/"protectors" for them.
Fair enough, checks out to me
I guess 'obligatory pet models' is my 'obligatory tactical rock'
Kanluwen wrote: You might roll your eyes at the sea life--but apparently it's a critical part of the Idoneth.
Their "Forgotten Nightmare" rule, where the enemy is fluffed as having "forgotten" to see them? It's because the Isharaan are extremely skilled in mind magic. They lost a lot of people to fighting the beasts of the deep early on and just decided to enslave them instead.
So now they have "bondbeasts" like that lil' bit that serve as familiars/"protectors" for them.
Fair enough, checks out to me
I guess 'obligatory pet models' is my 'obligatory tactical rock'
- Salvage
The fun part is that it gives them a chance to add some unique/interesting "attacks" to the unit without them needing to be waving around a sword like a goon.
The guy with the giant hook, for example, is implied to be using the hook more as a ceremonial tool than a weapon of war.
Also, he can harvest the souls of fallen Idoneth and "stuff them back in" to the Namarti.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I'm glad I clicked on this thread randomly to ask if it looks like the Attack Octopus is salvageable from the rest of that model.
I too am really eager to look at the proper sprue, at worst maybe you'll have to sacrifice a tentacle maybe if one is stuck to the guys back.
This army is utter perfection for a Kvaldir force, all the little fishies, Sharks for Chariots, barnacles etc. I'll be making a Khorgos Khul with an Exalted Deathbringer since he got that killer viking beard and have the Octopus to the side of him.
Also that Turtle is a perfect Warshrine.
Oh and a Soulrender and Thralls for an Archon and Incubi, and more thralls and everything with an Atlantian helmet for more free-guild greek human/aelves.
Kanluwen wrote: It's apparently relating to the whole "ethersea" element of the army and them bringing the ocean's depths with them to battle on the land.
The lore stream went over this yesterday and it was...interesting. It's less that they "flood" the land or whatever, it's they've created a way for them to live and bring the elements for their bondbeasts to survive. Their cities have roads, people walk, etc--but the fish and the other sea creatures will swim through the air as though there's nothing happening.
Reminds me of a delightfully fanciful short story I read a while back; Tomorrow Is Saint Valentine's Day by Tori Truslow.
It's written as a fantastical alternate history biography, in which a Victorian "elficologist" travels to the moon to live amongst mermaids. The vacuum of space is re-imagined as a sort of "damp" environment, in which humans can't breathe - unless kissed by a mermaid, of course! - where legged creatures walk and fish swim.
It's nice to see another take on the concept. ...Well, one that isn't Sharky & George!
I've mentioned it before, but I plan to use the Eidolon as a C'Tan Shard of the Deceiver. Just need to look at the sprues to see how much of the base decoration is optional.
Vorian wrote: Khaine is dead and can't come back because she has his heart - so she reaps the benefit of the Khaibe worship... as far as I understand it anyway!
...
The vibe I got from the description of their cities was very, very, very...interesting. They mentioned cities within magical bubbles and coral and ivory and bone 'sung' into shapes for the city structures proper. Each of the cities(called "Enclaves") has a kind of "soulbank" for when times get lean and they can't get souls from raiding.
The have bonesingers and an infinity circuits in their craft worlds? I mean, enclaves? So these are fantasy Eldar?
Vorian wrote: Khaine is dead and can't come back because she has his heart - so she reaps the benefit of the Khaibe worship... as far as I understand it anyway!
...
The vibe I got from the description of their cities was very, very, very...interesting. They mentioned cities within magical bubbles and coral and ivory and bone 'sung' into shapes for the city structures proper. Each of the cities(called "Enclaves") has a kind of "soulbank" for when times get lean and they can't get souls from raiding.
The have bonesingers and an infinity circuits in their craft worlds? I mean, enclaves? So these are fantasy Eldar?
Kanluwen wrote: The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
That wasn't my takeaway. The heart itself appears to be invincible, the seed from which Khaine would grow back if Morathi would leave it to its own devices instead of drinking its blood and sapping its power.
pm713 wrote: Not really. They have no predator god, fallen civilisation, soul stones, infinity circuits, wraith constructs or path system.
The similarity is making cities with singing things, weird stuff with souls and pointy ears.
Their souls were eaten by Slaanesh, so they have the same predator god as the Eldar. Isn't a soul bank the same thing as an infinity circuit? And they presumably have something like soul stones to keep the souls of their dead and get them into the soul bank. Except they take the souls out to use for themselves instead of putting them in robots.
Just sounds like the borrowed a few elements from the Eldar, like the bonesinging to build things and the saving of souls.
I thin I remember something like the hook guys storing the souls in their lanterns.A difference between a soul bank and the infinity circuit is that the bank is for souls of other races to be devoured/used to give Namarti life instead of their own dead being protected and honored.
But kind of the same if you think of it as souls used to power fighetrs (Namarti vs. Wraith constructs).
Cool twists all around
Also loved the image of an Idoneth city being built on the back of a huge leviathan traversing seas of the multiverse.
pm713 wrote: Not really. They have no predator god, fallen civilisation, soul stones, infinity circuits, wraith constructs or path system.
The similarity is making cities with singing things, weird stuff with souls and pointy ears.
Their souls were eaten by Slaanesh, so they have the same predator god as the Eldar. Isn't a soul bank the same thing as an infinity circuit? And they presumably have something like soul stones to keep the souls of their dead and get them into the soul bank. Except they take the souls out to use for themselves instead of putting them in robots.
Just sounds like the borrowed a few elements from the Eldar, like the bonesinging to build things and the saving of souls.
Jeremy Vetock literally said that yeah, they borrowed a few elements from the Eldar.
However they also took a few of those elements that were there in the Eldar that were originally nods to the old stories of the Fae and Changelings and things like that.
Also, their souls were eaten by Slaanesh. The Aelf Gods "rescued" these souls.
The reason they fled was, from the lore stream, "imagine that you've been stuck for millenia being tortured by the God of Excess. Sounds, lights, everything. Now imagine that your rescuer wants you to go back out into a world you know nothing about". The words "broken" and "not right in the head" are used for them, with the High King being "the most sane" having been the first one rescued from Slaanesh--but every soul saved after him "was just a little bit more broken than the last".
They don't really have soul stones, but the Soulreapers(the guy with the massive hook) 'catch' departing souls with their lanterns and can draw upon that energy in battle. Apparently that guy can become a massive powerhouse or stuff souls into slain Namarti to 'power' them back up.
Kanluwen wrote: The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
That wasn't my takeaway. The heart itself appears to be invincible, the seed from which Khaine would grow back if Morathi would leave it to its own devices instead of drinking its blood and sapping its power.
Me as well, Khorne himself couldn't destroy it, and it seems like revival would be more about channelling power into it rather than through it into Morathi.
GW just keeps in pricing themselves out of my "to buy" list. There are a lot of great miniatures bring produced out there that they are competing with. $5 a piece for plastic infantry just feels like such bad value to me when I can get nice metals for only a buck or two more a piece. Or on the other side of the spectrum I can get a bucket of really really nice PVC models from the C'mon Kickstarter of the quarter for $1 a pop, or great historical plastics for a similar price. I'd totally buy them for a price closer to the Kairic Acolytes or the Bloodreavers, but I just will never run out of miniatures that are a higher bang for the buck on the "to buy" list.
Vorian wrote: Khaine is dead and can't come back because she has his heart - so she reaps the benefit of the Khaibe worship... as far as I understand it anyway!
This is correct...ish. The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
Reminds me of the old Star Child fluff from waaaaay back in 40K.
Gallahad wrote: GW just keeps in pricing themselves out of my "to buy" list. There are a lot of great miniatures bring produced out there that they are competing with. $5 a piece for plastic infantry just feels like such bad value to me when I can get nice metals for only a buck or two more a piece. Or on the other side of the spectrum I can get a bucket of really really nice PVC models from the C'mon Kickstarter of the quarter for $1 a pop, or great historical plastics for a similar price. I'd totally buy them for a price closer to the Kairic Acolytes or the Bloodreavers, but I just will never run out of miniatures that are a higher bang for the buck on the "to buy" list.
c'est la vie. Eventually GW will either price too many people out of the hobby, or they'll bend to competitors bringing new, cheaper games to the table and finally start lowering prices. Either way, it's not happening now and it's not a topic for this thread.
What I'd much rather talk about is... how many people think that the fishes that come with each of the character models are going to be represented by an extra attack on the stat block? I think it's not coincidence that each character has a familiar fish.
Kanluwen wrote: The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
That wasn't my takeaway. The heart itself appears to be invincible, the seed from which Khaine would grow back if Morathi would leave it to its own devices instead of drinking its blood and sapping its power.
Me as well, Khorne himself couldn't destroy it, and it seems like revival would be more about channelling power into it rather than through it into Morathi.
Agreed - It seems Khaine would revivie if Morathi wasn't syphoning off the power.
p26 of Daughters (the Fate of Khaine) states that all the Aelf gods could possibily reform but they are without worship and whats left of them has or is being consumed - something that Khaine has got - in fact he has a massive cult spanning the Realms but all that power is going to Morathi.
pm713 wrote: Not really. They have no predator god, fallen civilisation, soul stones, infinity circuits, wraith constructs or path system.
The similarity is making cities with singing things, weird stuff with souls and pointy ears.
Their souls were eaten by Slaanesh, so they have the same predator god as the Eldar. Isn't a soul bank the same thing as an infinity circuit? And they presumably have something like soul stones to keep the souls of their dead and get them into the soul bank. Except they take the souls out to use for themselves instead of putting them in robots.
Just sounds like the borrowed a few elements from the Eldar, like the bonesinging to build things and the saving of souls.
They got their souls back. For Eldar it's an eternity of torture.
No. An infinity circuit is a resting place for the dead and power source.
Kanluwen wrote: The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
That wasn't my takeaway. The heart itself appears to be invincible, the seed from which Khaine would grow back if Morathi would leave it to its own devices instead of drinking its blood and sapping its power.
Me as well, Khorne himself couldn't destroy it, and it seems like revival would be more about channelling power into it rather than through it into Morathi.
Agreed - It seems Khaine would revivie if Morathi wasn't syphoning off the power.
p26 of Daughters (the Fate of Khaine) states that all the Aelf gods could possibily reform but they are without worship and whats left of them has or is being consumed - something that Khaine has got - in fact he has a massive cult spanning the Realms but all that power is going to Morathi.
Kanluwen wrote: The implications from DoK were that Khaine can't fully "die" until his heart is destroyed...and if the Heart were to be destroyed, he would come back. As long as Morathi retains it (and the power going to it since she's his Prophetess/Oracle and stoking up the belief again), she's basically a god in her own right and Khaine can't be brought back.
That wasn't my takeaway. The heart itself appears to be invincible, the seed from which Khaine would grow back if Morathi would leave it to its own devices instead of drinking its blood and sapping its power.
Me as well, Khorne himself couldn't destroy it, and it seems like revival would be more about channelling power into it rather than through it into Morathi.
Agreed - It seems Khaine would revivie if Morathi wasn't syphoning off the power.
p26 of Daughters (the Fate of Khaine) states that all the Aelf gods could possibily reform but they are without worship and whats left of them has or is being consumed - something that Khaine has got - in fact he has a massive cult spanning the Realms but all that power is going to Morathi.
Is that an elf god thing or a general god thing?
It says that elf gods are cyclical in nature, it doesn't say anything for or against the non-elven gods being able to come back.
The Idoneth Deepkin make greater use of monsters and beasts than nearly any other army of Order, making up for their limited numbers and resources with magically enslaved bond-beasts. At their smallest, these may be the bioluminescent creatures that light the undersea enclaves or the familiars that fight alongside the Isharann. At their mightiest, these could be the savage Akhelian Allopexes or even the Akhelian Leviadon.
The bonds that the Idoneth Deepkin share with their beasts is a difficult one. While the Stormcast Eternals and Fyreslayers may possess a deep connection with their draconic allies, the Idoneth Deepkin must magically enslave their bond-beasts using the Embailors, a specialised sect of the Isharann. In order for these magics to take hold, the creatures must be blinded, for without this measure they risk slipping their bonds and escaping in a murderous rampage. There are groups and even whole enclaves of Idoneth Deepkin who trawl the oceans for beasts to hunt and capture, with the Ghurish forces of Dhom-hain training particularly vicious specimens.
[img]
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/AoSDeepkin-Apr13-Image3vu.jpg[/img]
There are some exceptions – a few Ochtar, such as the familiar that fights alongside Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers, have proven loyal, as have the rare Deepmares ridden by Akhelian Kings.
The Idoneth Deepkin present all sorts of opportunities for hobbyists and gamers alike, boasting a rich stable of monstrous creatures to build your army on – take an Akhelian King as your general, and you could even field an entire mounted phalanx with Fangmora Eel cavalry as Battleline units! If you love using monsters, you’ll find the Idoneth Deepkin a very rewarding force – whether you’re looking to field an army of them or just want to add an allied detachment to your Order army.
The greatest of the Idoneth Deepkin’s monsters is the Akhelian Leviadon – something between an armoured battleship and a dragon. Just check out its stats:
The Akhelian Leviadon plays perfectly to the strengths of the Idoneth Deepkin, shrugging off enemy fire in the earlier turns of the game before making a crushing charge. There are few things that can stand up to an Akhelian Leviadon on the offensive – particularly when you factor in its Jaws of Death:
With only one attack, you’ve just got the one chance each turn to unleash Jaws of Death – but should it go off, you’ll take a considerable chunk out of any unfortunate model’s Wounds in an instant.
The Idoneth Deepkin make greater use of monsters and beasts than nearly any other army of Order, making up for their limited numbers and resources with magically enslaved bond-beasts. At their smallest, these may be the bioluminescent creatures that light the undersea enclaves or the familiars that fight alongside the Isharann. At their mightiest, these could be the savage Akhelian Allopexes or even the Akhelian Leviadon.
The bonds that the Idoneth Deepkin share with their beasts is a difficult one. While the Stormcast Eternals and Fyreslayers may possess a deep connection with their draconic allies, the Idoneth Deepkin must magically enslave their bond-beasts using the Embailors, a specialised sect of the Isharann. In order for these magics to take hold, the creatures must be blinded, for without this measure they risk slipping their bonds and escaping in a murderous rampage. There are groups and even whole enclaves of Idoneth Deepkin who trawl the oceans for beasts to hunt and capture, with the Ghurish forces of Dhom-hain training particularly vicious specimens.
There are some exceptions – a few Ochtar, such as the familiar that fights alongside Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers, have proven loyal, as have the rare Deepmares ridden by Akhelian Kings.
The Idoneth Deepkin present all sorts of opportunities for hobbyists and gamers alike, boasting a rich stable of monstrous creatures to build your army on – take an Akhelian King as your general, and you could even field an entire mounted phalanx with Fangmora Eel cavalry as Battleline units! If you love using monsters, you’ll find the Idoneth Deepkin a very rewarding force – whether you’re looking to field an army of them or just want to add an allied detachment to your Order army.
The greatest of the Idoneth Deepkin’s monsters is the Akhelian Leviadon – something between an armoured battleship and a dragon. Just check out its stats:
The Akhelian Leviadon plays perfectly to the strengths of the Idoneth Deepkin, shrugging off enemy fire in the earlier turns of the game before making a crushing charge. There are few things that can stand up to an Akhelian Leviadon on the offensive – particularly when you factor in its Jaws of Death:
With only one attack, you’ve just got the one chance each turn to unleash Jaws of Death – but should it go off, you’ll take a considerable chunk out of any unfortunate model’s Wounds in an instant.
It's Elves. Who cares if they have similar stuff to Eldar. I mean, I didn't hear anyone complaining about Athel Loren having something similar to that for ages--something that even linked Ulthuan to Athel Loren.
pm713 wrote: Realmgates are not the webway either.
How do whirlways interact with realmgates? Wouldn't the water flood out...
I like to think so. I had an idea a while back for a terrain project to have a real gate half-submerged in a swamp and its opposite number spewing out a torrent of water.
pm713 wrote: Realmgates are not the webway either.
How do whirlways interact with realmgates? Wouldn't the water flood out...
I like to think so. I had an idea a while back for a terrain project to have a real gate half-submerged in a swamp and its opposite number spewing out a torrent of water.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Something I'm unclear about is if the archers are dual kit with the sword infantry. Does anyone know?
I would imagine, since they're very close in model, but there's been no word from GW. Then again, Liberators and Judicators are basically just head and weapon swaps and those are different kits too...
Carlovonsexron wrote: Something I'm unclear about is if the archers are dual kit with the sword infantry. Does anyone know?
Not the same kit. The Namarti update on Warhammer-Community said there will be a second Namarti kit. The legs are also completely different between the two units.
Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Something I'm unclear about is if the archers are dual kit with the sword infantry. Does anyone know?
The Namarti Reavers/Raiders(the bowmen) are their own kit. We'll get them "in the coming weeks" and apparently one of the Hero options can make them Battleline if it is your General.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah...and it won't do a whole lot if your opponent isn't running shooting attacks.
Aren73 wrote:Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
I mean, it's possible to give a Fatemaster a 0+ save, -1+ with Mystic Shield, so I don't see why not.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Supposedly the Soulrender(the guy with the hook and angler fish hat) can return lost Wounds to the Namarti, so you can use them for that too.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Maybe they have high mobility but I bet you I could place a leviadon in such a way that it screws them over royally. For kharadrons that rule is brutal, no two ways about it, it will be a huge pain in the ass to get through, especially with a leviadon or two on the board.
Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage. I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark? The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
pm713 wrote: Realmgates are not the webway either.
How do whirlways interact with realmgates? Wouldn't the water flood out...
I like to think so. I had an idea a while back for a terrain project to have a real gate half-submerged in a swamp and its opposite number spewing out a torrent of water.
I love the idea.
There are now quite a few ways to travel between realms - Whirlways, Gnawholes, Realmgates
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
I don't think everything needs to be or is a pun really.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, this is week 1 of 5 for preorders.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
I don't think everything needs to be or is a pun really.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
I don't think everything needs to be or is a pun really.
.
Its GW. They already have a unit called a leviadon, and you just have to look at the Lizardmen and Necron armies for a long, long list of puns and related word play.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
I don't think everything needs to be or is a pun really.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Maybe they have high mobility but I bet you I could place a leviadon in such a way that it screws them over royally. For kharadrons that rule is brutal, no two ways about it, it will be a huge pain in the ass to get through, especially with a leviadon or two on the board.
As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need:
-Round 1
-Hit penalty spell was successfully cast
-Leviadon is also much closer than any other model
-Mystic shield was successfully cast
-The Kharadron player wasn't outside the 12-18" range needed to bring their firepower to bear anyway
-The Kharadron player isn't and is unable to have a meaningful amount of models being transported (which would allow them to simply run away as a stall tactic until round 2).
Again, this doesn't mean Deepkin aren't a touch matchup but it isn't that bad.
NinthMusketeer wrote: As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need
You're kind of confusing things a bit.
Round 1, for the Tides of Death, means that all Idoneth units have cover. The -1 to Hit is something native to the Leviadon itself from what's been said.
Leviadons also grant cover to Idoneth units fully within 12 inches of them from what was said.
NinthMusketeer wrote: As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need
You're kind of confusing things a bit.
Round 1, for the Tides of Death, means that all Idoneth units have cover. The -1 to Hit is something native to the Leviadon itself from what's been said.
Leviadons also grant cover to Idoneth units fully within 12 inches of them from what was said.
Apologies, obviously I don't have the battletome yet
NinthMusketeer wrote: As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need
You're kind of confusing things a bit.
Round 1, for the Tides of Death, means that all Idoneth units have cover. The -1 to Hit is something native to the Leviadon itself from what's been said.
Leviadons also grant cover to Idoneth units fully within 12 inches of them from what was said.
Apologies, obviously I don't have the battletome yet
Not trying to jump down your throat or anything! Just trying to make sure we keep things as relatively accurate as we can from a Twitchstreamed game and the Community articles(which did have the Tides of Death table in case you're interested).
PS--in case you can't tell, I'm excited for the Idoneth.
Unfortunately, it looks like they posted a sprue pic twice on the Eidolons, but I really think I should be able to trim off the more nautical bits for my Deceiver conversion (with a cloak of liquid metal!)
EnTyme wrote: Unfortunately, it looks like they posted a sprue pic twice on the Eidolons, but I really think I should be able to trim off the more nautical bits for my Deceiver conversion (with a cloak of liquid metal!)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Oh I get it, they put scythes on the fins. I just now noticed that. I was wondering how their fins could deal damage.
I like the models, but the names are pretty terrible.
How are you supposed to connect that allopex = shark?
The closest thing I could find is alopex, which refers to artic foxes.
Sharks are "apex" predators.
Sheeeeeesh.
Huh, a bit of a stretch as puns go, but I can see it.
I don't think everything needs to be or is a pun really.
EnTyme wrote: Unfortunately, it looks like they posted a sprue pic twice on the Eidolons, but I really think I should be able to trim off the more nautical bits for my Deceiver conversion (with a cloak of liquid metal!)
Spoiler:
Here's the missing sprue.
Thanks! Good to see the head I want to use is separate from the crest.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Maybe they have high mobility but I bet you I could place a leviadon in such a way that it screws them over royally. For kharadrons that rule is brutal, no two ways about it, it will be a huge pain in the ass to get through, especially with a leviadon or two on the board.
As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need:
-Round 1
-Hit penalty spell was successfully cast
-Leviadon is also much closer than any other model
-Mystic shield was successfully cast
-The Kharadron player wasn't outside the 12-18" range needed to bring their firepower to bear anyway
-The Kharadron player isn't and is unable to have a meaningful amount of models being transported (which would allow them to simply run away as a stall tactic until round 2).
Again, this doesn't mean Deepkin aren't a touch matchup but it isn't that bad.
Round 1 all the Idoneth would have to do is stick their leviadon out and everything else kept back a bit (especially that it seems some of it can deep strike). Because of turn 1 cover and the native -1 to hit, the leviadon is on a 2+sv and -1 to hit anyway which is brutal in and of itself. That's assuming the idoneth don't get first turn.
Tbh, round 2 wouldn't be much different. So we move up 12/18 inches, even then the leviadon could be positioned in such a way that it still is the closest model. Essentially, we're counting on the deepkin player playing badly for us to be able to hit anything else.
I don't think it's unwinnable, but it's very tough.
Also, because Kharadrons only get one buff which is reroll 1s to hit/wound. Getting +1 to hit is actually quite difficult and mostly requires allies from other order factions.
Haha no hard feelings I don't really care who posts it - don't know how to make it an image link. I just thought you didn't see the post.
Anyway yeah, it doesn't seem to have the negative to hit...that's interesting, doesn't seem quite as brutal although it does have a 2+ save all the time basically
Yep! They're going to be doing an art card for every week of preorders and this one was labeled as 1 out of 5.
I'm leaning towards them being 'themed' around the Warscroll Battalions.
Guessing that week 2 is going to be the Soulrender(hook guy) and the Namarti Reavers(archers) since that would actually finish out that Warscroll Battalion(2-4 units of Raiders 2-6 of Thralls 1 Soulrender).
Week 3 is probably going to be the Ishorann Tidecaster and Soulscryer.
Week 4 will probably be the Akkhelian King and the Eels.
Week 5 will probably end with the Allopex and Leviadon.
Week 4 would see the ability for you to take the "Noble's Court" or whatever, it's a King(including the named guy!), Tidecaster, and Soulscryer.
Week 5 would see the ability to field the Akkhelian bit, which requires 2-4 units of Eels(any type), 1 of Allopex, and a Leviadon.
Eldarain wrote: Book only 40k releases will possibly be mixed in.
Well, book and non-model heavy releases.
Deathwatch is basically guaranteed to get some Primaris boxes and an upgrade kit.
Harlequin will be model-less likely.
Knights we know are getting stuff.
The Eidolon has a looot of sprue space "wasted" on sea critters and base stuff. Not really happy about that with their (IMO) extreme "big centre piece" pricing. I love his tiny seahorses, though.
The wrack pieces being stuck to its base is a bit of a bummer, I want to turn it into a flying Nurgle gunship and all that will have to be dremeled away :(
At 40€ for the Thralls I'll wait for the SC and maybe buy a shark box to use as skysharks with KO and maybe the seshorse rider to use with my flying fishes Pusgoyles.
PS: Who will be the first to run the squid as a Khorne Herald or something equally silly/fun?!
Eldarain wrote: Book only 40k releases will possibly be mixed in.
Well, book and non-model heavy releases.
Deathwatch is basically guaranteed to get some Primaris boxes and an upgrade kit.
Harlequin will be model-less likely.
Knights we know are getting stuff.
One can only hope. Five weeks leaves one week of May for something that's not sea elves, hopefully Van Saar. A little codex or two to mix things up wouldn't go amiss.
Eldarain wrote: Book only 40k releases will possibly be mixed in.
Well, book and non-model heavy releases.
Deathwatch is basically guaranteed to get some Primaris boxes and an upgrade kit.
Harlequin will be model-less likely.
Knights we know are getting stuff.
One can only hope. Five weeks leaves one week of May for something that's not sea elves, hopefully Van Saar. A little codex or two to mix things up wouldn't go amiss.
My notes have Harlequins before the end of April with both Knights & Deathwatch in May.
All compiled from multiple sources so I may have mixed in some wishful thinking but we'll see I guess.
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Maybe they have high mobility but I bet you I could place a leviadon in such a way that it screws them over royally. For kharadrons that rule is brutal, no two ways about it, it will be a huge pain in the ass to get through, especially with a leviadon or two on the board.
As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need:
-Round 1
-Hit penalty spell was successfully cast
-Leviadon is also much closer than any other model
-Mystic shield was successfully cast
-The Kharadron player wasn't outside the 12-18" range needed to bring their firepower to bear anyway
-The Kharadron player isn't and is unable to have a meaningful amount of models being transported (which would allow them to simply run away as a stall tactic until round 2).
Again, this doesn't mean Deepkin aren't a touch matchup but it isn't that bad.
Round 1 all the Idoneth would have to do is stick their leviadon out and everything else kept back a bit (especially that it seems some of it can deep strike). Because of turn 1 cover and the native -1 to hit, the leviadon is on a 2+sv and -1 to hit anyway which is brutal in and of itself. That's assuming the idoneth don't get first turn.
Tbh, round 2 wouldn't be much different. So we move up 12/18 inches, even then the leviadon could be positioned in such a way that it still is the closest model. Essentially, we're counting on the deepkin player playing badly for us to be able to hit anything else.
I don't think it's unwinnable, but it's very tough.
Also, because Kharadrons only get one buff which is reroll 1s to hit/wound. Getting +1 to hit is actually quite difficult and mostly requires allies from other order factions.
No offense, but this is nonsensical. What you said doesn't negate that it is unrealistic that a Kharadron army would be forced to waste most of its shooting on a 2+ save model (that does need mystic shield, monsters don't benefit from cover). And we now know the hit penalty spell doesn't have the range or targeting ability to force that scenario round 1 anyway. Finally, the only Kharadron battleline has +1 to hit heroes/monsters so the faction is guaranteed to have it every game, and there's an allegiance option to give the entire army re-roll 1s to hit and wound against targets that can fly.
With all due respect, while I understand the deepkin rules are new and its easy to make mistakes at least be sure on the established faction you're referencing.
For reference I just ran the numbers using only my army's 24" range shooting against a mystic shield leviadon and its an average of 10.5 wounds, assuming no re rolls at all. With settle the grudges or master the skies its entirely possible to just kill it outright, which is exactly what I would want to do anyways even if I could pick any target I wanted.
Edit: Sorry if the above comes across as abrasive, I don't mean it that way. There's obviously a lot of rules and numbers flying around so it makes it all the more important to double-check them (I was corrected on some stuff just a page ago for that matter).
Aren73 wrote: Could someone clarify if an idoneth force with a leviadon could give it mystic shield and give it negative hit modifiers to such a point that it has a 2+ sv and -2 to hit?
From what we have seen/heard that doesn't seem far fetched. If so, if you are forced to fire at it, that shuts down shooting hard.
Sure, but then your opponent deserves to lose for not shooting at literally anything else. Movement is still a thing, and if it's really that far ahead of the rest of the army then just swamp it in melee.
Yeah but the other rule that forces them to shoot the closest means you can buff it and just throw it in front of their shooty units
Something to remember is that the only army actually running all-shooting is Kharadron. And they have extremely high mobility. The old whfb style gun lines don't really show up anymore.
Maybe they have high mobility but I bet you I could place a leviadon in such a way that it screws them over royally. For kharadrons that rule is brutal, no two ways about it, it will be a huge pain in the ass to get through, especially with a leviadon or two on the board.
As a Kharadron player I'm not concerned that it will be that bad. An uphill battle sure, but there's a lot of shooting that gets +1 to hit or re-rolls against heroes/monsters. There's also several things that grant bonuses against stuff that flies, further the -1 to hit is only in round 1 and the other needs a spell. So the circumstance where all/most of the army has to shoot at the above-buffed Leviadon is pretty much never going to happen because we need:
-Round 1
-Hit penalty spell was successfully cast
-Leviadon is also much closer than any other model
-Mystic shield was successfully cast
-The Kharadron player wasn't outside the 12-18" range needed to bring their firepower to bear anyway
-The Kharadron player isn't and is unable to have a meaningful amount of models being transported (which would allow them to simply run away as a stall tactic until round 2).
Again, this doesn't mean Deepkin aren't a touch matchup but it isn't that bad.
Round 1 all the Idoneth would have to do is stick their leviadon out and everything else kept back a bit (especially that it seems some of it can deep strike). Because of turn 1 cover and the native -1 to hit, the leviadon is on a 2+sv and -1 to hit anyway which is brutal in and of itself. That's assuming the idoneth don't get first turn.
Tbh, round 2 wouldn't be much different. So we move up 12/18 inches, even then the leviadon could be positioned in such a way that it still is the closest model. Essentially, we're counting on the deepkin player playing badly for us to be able to hit anything else.
I don't think it's unwinnable, but it's very tough.
Also, because Kharadrons only get one buff which is reroll 1s to hit/wound. Getting +1 to hit is actually quite difficult and mostly requires allies from other order factions.
No offense, but this is nonsensical. What you said doesn't negate that it is unrealistic that a Kharadron army would be forced to waste most of its shooting on a 2+ save model (that does need mystic shield, monsters don't benefit from cover). And we now know the hit penalty spell doesn't have the range or targeting ability to force that scenario round 1 anyway. Finally, the only Kharadron battleline has +1 to hit heroes/monsters so the faction is guaranteed to have it every game, and there's an allegiance option to give the entire army re-roll 1s to hit and wound against targets that can fly.
With all due respect, while I understand the deepkin rules are new and its easy to make mistakes at least be sure on the established faction you're referencing.
For reference I just ran the numbers using only my army's 24" range shooting against a mystic shield leviadon and its an average of 10.5 wounds, assuming no re rolls at all. With settle the grudges or master the skies its entirely possible to just kill it outright, which is exactly what I would want to do anyways even if I could pick any target I wanted.
Edit: Sorry if the above comes across as abrasive, I don't mean it that way. There's obviously a lot of rules and numbers flying around so it makes it all the more important to double-check them (I was corrected on some stuff just a page ago for that matter).
You're right, my bad! I haven't been playing Kharadrons long and didn't know the cover rules. The turtle seems much less tanky now/prone to alpha strikes at least. If anything turn one it might be somewhat vulnerable if out in front.
Master the skies seems to be the go to then, in fact zilfin in general seems to be quite useful against idoneth. Most of their scarier units will probably have fly and mobility seems important to get around the target closest unit thing.
All in all I'm getting the feeling the more we find out about them the more managable the deepkin look. Tough but managable
Big info dump; it came out of the comments on War of Sigmar but it's just someone writing down what the review videos had:
Spoiler:
>Command Traits
>1 Remorsless Raider
Reroll charges for the general
>2 Hunter of Souls
Reroll wound rolls of 1 for the general
>3 Unstoppable Fury
+2Attacks to all weapons on the general during High Tide
>4 Born Again from Agony
+2W wounds for the general
>5 Nemoran(?) Legacy
-1Bravery for every enemy within 12" of the general
>Lord of the Storm and Sea
+2 Bravery for IDK within 12" of the general
>Artefacts (Akhelian only)
>Sanguine Pearl
5+ FnP >Potion of Hateful Frenzy
once per game +1 to hit and wound for one turn, take a mortal wound afterwards
>An'Kashar (sp?) Spur
+3" Move, reroll 1s to hit for attacks made by the mount
>Armor of Sy'te (sp?)
-1 to hit the bearer in melee
>Bioshock Shell
once per battle each enemy unit within 3" of the bearer takes d3 mortal wounds
>Abyssal Blade
one weapon gets additional -1Rend. also gets +1 damage against Slaanesh models
>Artifacts (availiable to all IDK)
>Rune of the Certain Tide
one use; either +1"Move for all IDK or -1" Move for everybody else for the turn
>Black Pearl
6+ FnP >Leander's Last Lament
one use; 18" Fearless bubble for IDK >Teranade (sp?) Venom
Reroll 1s to wound for one weapon. -1 Bravery for models wounded on a 6 with that weapon
>Cloud of Midnights
one use; can't attack or be attacked for one phase
>Whirlshell
one
use; pick enemy hero within 9" and roll 2d6. If you beat the hero's
Bravery he must subtract -1 from all hit rolls for the rest of the
battle.
>Artifacts (Isharann wizards only)
>Steelshell Pearl
5+ FnP against ranged
>Mindflayer
one use; -1 to hit during a combat phase of a enemy unit within 3"
>Drich (sp?) Leach
-1 to cast rolls for wizards (except IDK) within 18" of the bearer
>Orruk Lantern
pick enemy unit within 18" that is in cover; unit doesn't get cover
>Disharmony Stones
one
use; pick up to two enemy heroes within 12", enemy must pick: each hero
suffers a mortal wound on a 3+; each hero suffers d3 mortal wounds on a
5+ or each hero suffers d3 mortal wounds, but on a 4+ you suffer d3
mortal wounds as well
>Brain Barnacle
one
use; pick enemy within 12" and roll 2d6, if the roll is enough to reach
the enemy hero he takes -1 to hit and cast for the rest of the battle
>Artifacts (wizards only)
>Arcane Pearl
5+FnP against mortal wounds
>Sands of Infinity
one use; one 'until your next hero phase'-spell last until the hero phase after that (i.e. two turns).
>Coral Ring
reroll one failed cast per game, also reroll one failed unbind per game
>Bauble of Buoyancy
grants Fly, reroll run rolls
>Krakentooth one use; pick enemy within 12" and roll a die: 1 - bearer takes a mortal
wound, 2-5 – enemy unit suffers d3 mortal wounds, 6 – one enemy model in
the unit is slain if it has less than 10 wounds or suffers 2d6 mortal
wounds if it has more than 10 wounds
>Augury Shells
one
use; roll 2d6, you can substitute that roll for a cast roll by the
bearer or a unbind roll made against a spell made by the bearer
>Spells
>Steed of Tides (5+)
pick hero that's not a monster, remove from battlefield and set up within 24" and at least 9" from the enemy
>Abyssal Tides (5+)
IDK within 9" count as in cover
>Maelstrom (6+)
pick spot within 18" and roll a die for each enemy unit within 3" of that; if roll is less or equal to the number of model in the unit it suffers d3 mortal wounds
>Pressure of the Deep (7+)
pick a model within 12" and roll a die; if greater than the model's wound characteristic it is slain
>Tide of Fear (6+)
pick unit within 12", until next hero phase subtract -1 from hit rolls and bravery
>Arcane Coasion (6+)
pick closest enemy unit within 48" and measure distance to the caster: <=12" target suffers a mortal wound; 13"-24" target suffers two mortal wounds, 25"-36 three mortal wounds, 37"-48" four mortal wounds
>Ritual (all Isharann know these)
roll 2d6, success on a 10+, one per hero phase, +1 if Priest, +1 if within 3" of Shipwreck, +1 for each Isharann hero within 3"
>Erosion
until next hero phase no enemy unit benefits from cover
>Rousing
heal all Eidolons by 1 and reroll all failed hit and casting rolls for Eidolons until next hero phase
>Tempest
enemy units lose Fly until next hero phase
>Ionrach
+1 to casting and unbinding. Command Trait (have to take) allies gain Tides of Death battletrait.
>Dhom-hain
Reroll hit rolls of 1 for Akhelian and Namarti units that made a charge move in the same turn, Rerolls failed wound rolls for Akhelian units that target a monster.
>Fuethan
Reroll hit rolls of 1 for Fuethan units that are affected by Flood Tide (Turn 2), additionally when they would be affected by Ebb Tide (Turn 4) they are instead affected by Flood Tide. In Combat Phase reroll wound rolls of 1 for your mounts.
>Mor'phann
Add +3 to the number of models a Soul Render brings back. Spell (have to take) 6+, if successful pick an visible enemy in 12", they can only move 1" when they Pile In, and any ability that increase their Pile In move are ignored.
>Nautilar
Reroll failed hit rolls for Nautilar units that made a charge move in the same turn. Spell (have to take) 4+, if successful pick an visible Nautilar unit in 12", worsen the Rend of attacks against them by 1.
>Briomdar
Briomdar Soul Scryers can bring three units with them instead of two, and they can be placed wholly within 18" instead of 12", Briomdar units that cannot fly ignore terrain features as though they could fly, they still can't move over models.
Sands of Infinity is amazing.
I'm loving the idea of Sands of Infinity plus an Aspect of the Sea using its Tides of Terror spell when it manages to hit a full D6 units. Two turns worth of -1 to Hit and Bravery?! Yes please!
Also liking that "Steed of Tides" spell with an Aspect of the Storm(they're not Monsters! ) and a Soulscryer bringing him with from off board. Pick a tasty unit, give them the +3" to Charge from the Soulscryer's ability and it's just...mean.
As would be a Fuethan force where you have a Tidecaster present and you reverse the tides at the outset, meaning you start with Ebb Tide instead of Low Tide(Fuethan treats Ebb Tide as Flood Tide; meaning on turn 1 you can Run and Charge with Fuethan!). That would be super handy if you know you're going to get to go first on turn 1.
It's all old stuff. The 'ball' is from the Chaos Dreadhold "Crucible" kit. For whatever reason the rest of the Dreadhold stuff isn't showing up on the US webstore.
What do we think next week will have up for preorders?
For myself, I'm hoping it will be the Soulrender or Soulscryer or Tidecaster(any of the Ishorann heroes really) and the Namarti Reavers. Soulrender would be preferred since that would make it so you can run a Namarti Cohort which is a Soulrender, 2-6 units of Thralls, and 2-4 units of Reavers.
Fun fact. Martin Morrin, the warhammer community manager who beat the Deepkin with his Nurgle on Wednesday, just won the grand tournament heat two with a perfect gaming score.
Chikout wrote: Fun fact. Martin Morrin, the warhammer community manager who beat the Deepkin with his Nurgle on Wednesday, just won the grand tournament heat two with a perfect gaming score.
Chikout wrote: Fun fact. Martin Morrin, the warhammer community manager who beat the Deepkin with his Nurgle on Wednesday, just won the grand tournament heat two with a perfect gaming score.
do you know the list?
On Wednesday he ran a Guo, 70 plaguebearers, 6 plague drones, a lord of affliction, festus and some nurglings. I assume he ran the same list at the weekend. They will probably do an article on the community site about it at some point. 2 and 3 at the event were Stormcast and Ko followed by a bunch of Tzeentch and a Slaanesh list in 7th which was probably the surprise of this event. It will be interesting to see how all the new books shake things up in the future.
Edit. He took 5 blight kings and only 60 plague bearers at the weekend.
What are the mounts called? They look like someone smashed an octopus and a seahorse together. I wish it was more seahorsey I could make so many jokes.
It's called a Deepmare, and it's apparently one of the only sea creatures that willingly forms a bond with the Idoneth Deepkin instead of being magically enslaved.
pm713 wrote: What are the mounts called? They look like someone smashed an octopus and a seahorse together. I wish it was more seahorsey I could make so many jokes.
Double checked the white dwarf, they are called "Deepmares".
(As a side note I'm bothered, because I remember being told it was a monster from british folklore. But all the references I've seen to it are related to the D&D depiction. So apparently I've been mistaken for some time. lol)
Lockark wrote: (As a side note I'm bothered, because I remember being told it was a monster from british folklore. But all the references I've seen to it are related to the D&D depiction. So apparently I've been mistaken for some time. lol)
Well, the Deepmare might be throwback to kelpie, a shape shifting water spirit that could assume the form of a horse. It's a Scottish thing I believe.
Nightmares - malignant or demonic spirits in horse form - seem to be a modern invention based on word play. The old maar or mara (night demon preying on the sleeping) just morphed into mare over time.
Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".
NinthMusketeer wrote: Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".
I think it's pretty nice, personally. It's going to make High Tide really mean something. A unit of even 10 Thralls fighting against a big unit of 1W models or a decent sized monster suddenly becomes a huuuuge threat during High Tide.
+1A for putting all of your attacks on a single unit of 1W models puts the unit at 31 attacks(assuming an Icon Bearer--which why wouldn't you?), 3+/3+ with -1 Rend and 1D.
+1A for this General's ability means that number climbs up to 41 attacks.
Against a monster or unit with 4+ Wounds characteristic? 21 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D...climbing up to 31 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D.
If that unit isn't gone, your dice hated you. Oh! And if you had an Aspect of the Storm within range, you're rerolling Wound rolls of 1.
I'm inclined to say that it'll be really nasty with a unit of Eels though.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".
I think it's pretty nice, personally. It's going to make High Tide really mean something. A unit of even 10 Thralls fighting against a big unit of 1W models or a decent sized monster suddenly becomes a huuuuge threat during High Tide.
+1A for putting all of your attacks on a single unit of 1W models puts the unit at 31 attacks(assuming an Icon Bearer--which why wouldn't you?), 3+/3+ with -1 Rend and 1D.
+1A for this General's ability means that number climbs up to 41 attacks.
Against a monster or unit with 4+ Wounds characteristic? 21 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D...climbing up to 31 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D.
If that unit isn't gone, your dice hated you. Oh! And if you had an Aspect of the Storm within range, you're rerolling Wound rolls of 1.
I'm inclined to say that it'll be really nasty with a unit of Eels though.
That circumstance is very nice, on round 3 and no other round. Compare to GUO who gets to do it with a longer range, no 'completely within' restriction (which is a big deal), and every round. Or a megaboss who needs a dice roll to trigger it but does it in an aoe, with no completely within restriction, every round.
It isn't that the command ability isnt worth taking, quite the contrary as you explained, its that analogous hero options from other factions have far better versions. I can understand not wanting to overpower Deepkin with strong command avilities on top of their strong allegiance abilities (Kharadron are similarly limited) but the 'completely within' restriction AND the round restriction is too much of a handicap IMO.
At any rate its ultimately a minor criticism that doesn't take much away from the excellent rules design we've seen so far.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Wow just took a look at the king's command ability... very unimpressed. That isn't very good at all, compare to say a GUO that will do it every round on a unit that needs only be within (as opposed to completely within) 21".
I think it's pretty nice, personally. It's going to make High Tide really mean something. A unit of even 10 Thralls fighting against a big unit of 1W models or a decent sized monster suddenly becomes a huuuuge threat during High Tide.
+1A for putting all of your attacks on a single unit of 1W models puts the unit at 31 attacks(assuming an Icon Bearer--which why wouldn't you?), 3+/3+ with -1 Rend and 1D. +1A for this General's ability means that number climbs up to 41 attacks.
Against a monster or unit with 4+ Wounds characteristic? 21 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D...climbing up to 31 attacks with 3+/3+ -1 Rend and 2D.
If that unit isn't gone, your dice hated you. Oh! And if you had an Aspect of the Storm within range, you're rerolling Wound rolls of 1. I'm inclined to say that it'll be really nasty with a unit of Eels though.
That circumstance is very nice, on round 3 and no other round. Compare to GUO who gets to do it with a longer range, no 'completely within' restriction (which is a big deal), and every round. Or a megaboss who needs a dice roll to trigger it but does it in an aoe, with no completely within restriction, every round.
It can also be turn 2, provided you bring a Tidecaster and reverse the tables since you then start with Ebb Tide as your opening bit. As Fuethan, that means on turn 1 you'll be able to run and charge...since they count the Turn 4 ability(Ebb Tide--retreat and charge or retreat and shoot) as Turn 2's (Flood Tide--run and shoot or run and charge). Fuethan, I think, is going to really come into its own for people who are okay with going second and stack up a few Leviadons.
On the other hand with regards to the 'completely within' part, I think it's important to note that I foresee these things being FAQ'd/errata'd with GHB2018 to all be the same wording. It's important that everything in the Deepkin book uses that wording from what's been said. Leviadrons are "entirely within", the Shipwreck is "entirely within", etc.
It isn't that the command ability isnt worth taking, quite the contrary as you explained, its that analogous hero options from other factions have far better versions. I can understand not wanting to overpower Deepkin with strong command avilities on top of their strong allegiance abilities (Kharadron are similarly limited) but the 'completely within' restriction AND the round restriction is too much of a handicap IMO.
I didn't hear/see Command Abilities for the other stuff so I do have to wonder how things are going to work on that front. Akkhelian wise we have the General and the named guy.
At any rate its ultimately a minor criticism that doesn't take much away from the excellent rules design we've seen so far.
I feel like Deepkin are going to very much be an army that is going to require patience to learn. I've been consuming everything I can with regards to them as I want to be able to realistically play them asap--the only thing that will be holding me back is the damn release schedule!
Which really makes me want them as an army. The last time I passed up an army I thought would be rewarding to skilled players it was Tzeentch. But then again I didn't pass on Kharadron. But then again again I really like playing Kharadron...
Amazing minis - my only nitpick being that two out of three archers have their arrow on the wrong side of the bow.
They all draw with their fingers - but two have put the arrow on as if using a thumb draw. Haven’t studied the parts so I do not know if it is the sculptor or the one gluing them together who have made this (small) error.
I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side, in the heat of battle I think it's more important to get an arrow off than to stop and make sure you have the perfect form, especially when you are running and shooting at rather close ranges as their rules also give them a short range profile as well as stated they're blind which would probably add to the urgency to fire off more arrows. Also, fantasy half soul blind archer elves haha. In all honesty though I love these models and the feeling of motion that they have is great, actually sold the line to me when the first teaser went out.
Either way, I'm loving the closer look of all these minis. They're gorgeous, plain and simple. I can't wait to get Volturnos.
My plan is to replace the heasd of the various Akhelians with Wrack heads from the Drukhari range to make them look more gladitorial and vicious!
Volturnos's ability is particularly nice. Yes it's got more limited range. Yes it only applies for one turn... but that model's going to have a huge base, and the area around it is going to be a considerable amount of the board. This army is really pushing the idea of moving carefully and, in my mind, discouraging things like daisy-chaining buffs or holding objectives. Your army is going to be stronger by moving together and moving carefully.
Mantle wrote: I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…
It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…
drbored wrote: Either way, I'm loving the closer look of all these minis. They're gorgeous, plain and simple. I can't wait to get Volturnos.
My plan is to replace the heasd of the various Akhelians with Wrack heads from the Drukhari range to make them look more gladitorial and vicious!
Volturnos's ability is particularly nice. Yes it's got more limited range. Yes it only applies for one turn... but that model's going to have a huge base, and the area around it is going to be a considerable amount of the board. This army is really pushing the idea of moving carefully and, in my mind, discouraging things like daisy-chaining buffs or holding objectives. Your army is going to be stronger by moving together and moving carefully.
We don't know what the special character's command ability is yet, if he has one. Presumably it will be stronger to compensate for the loss of a command trait.
Mantle wrote: I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…
It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…
I hate to be a pedant, but ancient and medieval bows rarely had arrow shelves. I say rarely, I’m not aware of any. It’s more of a modern invention I think. In the West, arrows usually went on the left of the bow and were drawn with two fingers, but in the East, the style was to place the arrow on the right of the bow and draw with the thumb.
Mantle wrote: I'm pretty certain it's quite possible to draw and fire a bow from either side…
It’s not. Specifically, bows have an arrow shelf carved into one side and trying to fire from the other causes the arrow to mostly hit the floor in front of you rather than pierce the enemy, with optional arm or cheek-slap from the string doing things it’s not meant to. And even if you did manage to do it, you’d still be less accurate because of the way arrows are fletched unless you also took the time to flip the arrow around too…
I hate to be a pedant, but ancient and medieval bows rarely had arrow shelves. I say rarely, I’m not aware of any. It’s more of a modern invention I think. In the West, arrows usually went on the left of the bow and were drawn with two fingers, but in the East, the style was to place the arrow on the right of the bow and draw with the thumb.
Yep this is what I was meaning, modern bows tend to come with arrow shelves, traditional bows don't and the models don't have arrow shelves either. Although looking at the way the arrow is drawn, just between the top of the hand and the pointless bulge that a lot of fantasy bows have, I'm surprised the arrow ever flies straight haha.
pm713 wrote: Who thought necroquake was a good name...
The same company who thought murderclaws on a murderfang, thunderscorn (why they didn't keep dragon-ogre is beyond me. Pretty sure that's uniquely Warhammer thing), bloodstoker and bloodsecrator were good ideas.
Current GW isn't good at names.
I mean, they were never amazing at names, but they have gotten worse due to their absolute need to make everything unique to appease the Dark Gods of Copyright.
I like thunderscorn actually, has a good ring to it and sounds brutal, aggressive. But yes, generally speaking the need to make everything sooper copywryte has led to so much naming that far more bad names have shown up in AoS than did in Fantasy. There are bright spots though; the Kharadron and new elf battletomes are pretty good on that front.
But I still can't get over "deadwalkers".
Yet none of your examples or even the above compare to the crown jewel of GW bad a naming:
Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with. The same could not be said of thunderscorn, which could be anything. When I hear dragon-ogre, I get the idea of something that has to do with ogres and dragons. When I hear thunderscorn, I get the idea of...a really angry raincloud.
Yeah, ripperdactyls aren't great, but at least the model is somewhat decent. Providing you are willing to overlook the Jay Leno chin, that is. Unllike the Razorgor, which is just bad, name and model wise.. Seriously, its like Pumba on meth.
nels1031 wrote: Idoneth will respond in kind with a Sharknado!
Don't you freaking joke. Those movies are national treasures!
That would be pretty rad though. If AoS were Command and Conquer that would be their super weapon. That or a sharktopus. Or as GW's lawyers would probably call it, a shraktopuz
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.
While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.
While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so… Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!
Ok, that's a fair point. The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.
I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.
While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so…
Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!
Ok, that's a fair point.
The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.
I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Its so unnecessary though. Dragon-Ogre was unique in that nothing else was called that and it was an accurate description. You knew what you were dealing with.
While that is true, GW no longer makes any Ogres so a dragon-ogre is a dragon+what? Also they are stepping away from dragons too so… Basically would you rather have a Thunderscorn or a Dracoth-ogor? That said, Dragon Ogor is still a keyword, as long as the Shaggoth (and there’s a name to conjure with) still lives!
Ok, that's a fair point. The whole situation is still stupid though. To me it reeks of insecurity of their own IP.
I'm actually quite worried they'll rename necrons to something stupid just because FFIX has a boss named that.
I think the whole naming thing is more a holdover from old-GW than a real concern at this point. Also there is a certain tradition/culture of ridiculous naming for GW. But to go into more detail, it's hard to do good naming across a whole setting. Obviously having evering named nounnoun or nounverb is bad, but so is having everything named with made-up or bastardized latin terms because it just becomes a big mess of fluff names most people don't understand or care about. So it's important to strike a balance and we can note that the best named factions have that trend. But it isn't easy, especially not at the breakneck pace GW is releasing stuff at.
Still better sounding and had more effort put into them than murderfang, the murderclaw wielding spacewolf dreadnought.
How does Kharn = betrayer? That's a new one.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Kharn is a very poor play on carnage. GW has always been very poor on it's name play. The old lizardmen were some of the most cringe worthy.
Oh come on, what's not to like about the great slann Cupacocoa or Botalomilk?
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Kharn is a very poor play on carnage. GW has always been very poor on it's name play. The old lizardmen were some of the most cringe worthy.
Oh come on, what's not to like about the great slann Cupacocoa or Botalomilk?
I'll raise you Tik-Taq-To and Kroak. GW was never good on it's naming conventions. In Fantasy or 40K for that matter.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Kharn is a very poor play on carnage. GW has always been very poor on it's name play. The old lizardmen were some of the most cringe worthy.
Oh come on, what's not to like about the great slann Cupacocoa or Botalomilk?
I'll raise you Tik-Taq-To and Kroak. GW was never good on it's naming conventions. In Fantasy or 40K for that matter.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The difference is the pizardmen names were intentionally silly. I mean the undead frog man named 'kroak'...
Yeah, its hard to get mad at the lizardmen names when they are clearly meant to be puns, and they actually have a bit of effort.
As opposed to the SW naming convention, which is just lazy. Its moon moon levels of bad.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Still better sounding and had more effort put into them than murderfang, the murderclaw wielding spacewolf dreadnought.
I still wonder what thought writing these names was thinking. Or why he though dreadnought biting enemies to death was good idea, or why SW kept insane maniac no one knew inside, instead of putting him down and installing actual, sane hero in it...
It's very similar to middle eastern arabic word for 'to betray', though admittedly it might be just a coincidence. Kharn in HH novels is from Asia, though, making it more likely to be intended though.
I honestly expected him to be about 40 euros. A damn shame namarti cost more buckeroos than I expected but nonetheless I will focus a bit more on cavalry.
Lord Kragan wrote: This popped on 4chan (so take with a metric <censored> of salt!)
Slaanesh release in October They are going with a more Hellraiser meets the 80s theme for the reboot full 40k release aswell
edited for language - BrookM
That does sound neat. Personally I would have preferred they focused more on the decadent aspect and went Marquis de Sade instead of Hot Topic, but that's fine.
I can't find this eel on the reavers sprue, weird. It says it comes with one and shows a different one rearing to attack. But then they include this image suggesting two different sculpts. Kinda bummed this kit doesn't have as many cool bits n bobs as the thralls, guess the bows quivers took up all the space.
I can't find this eel on the reavers sprue, weird. It says it comes with one and shows a different one rearing to attack. But then they include this image suggesting two different sculpts. Kinda bummed this kit doesn't have as many cool bits n bobs as the thralls, guess the bows quivers took up all the space.
What's funny is that the actual product pictures don't show that eel at all. Look at...
It shows the rearing eel there and in
It's likely a bit from the Guard or Allopex and it just got mixed in. We had (still do I think) the Aspect of the Storm/Sea missing a frame in their stuff.
Ugh, that generic basing on Idoneth... Can't get over it. I'm just not eeling the synthesis of base-model-army there. Fortunately with all the little details I do expect to see some cool bases from gamers.
So that Slaanesh rumour comes from the warhammer weekly youtube show were they were speculating about what a Slaanesh release MIGHT look like. Once again 4chan is trying to mess with people.
Chikout wrote: So that Slaanesh rumour comes from the warhammer weekly youtube show were they were speculating about what a Slaanesh release MIGHT look like. Once again 4chan is trying to mess with people.
To be fair, the 24 hr livestream for New Years did have someone talking about Slaanesh models being worked on "hopefully releasing by 2019". Guy promptly dropped an F-bomb and it's been cut.
Chikout wrote: So that Slaanesh rumour comes from the warhammer weekly youtube show were they were speculating about what a Slaanesh release MIGHT look like. Once again 4chan is trying to mess with people.
To be fair, the 24 hr livestream for New Years did have someone talking about Slaanesh models being worked on "hopefully releasing by 2019". Guy promptly dropped an F-bomb and it's been cut.
Yeah Slaanesh may well be coming but the hellraiser meets 80's guys in leather comment comes directly from warhammer weekly.
The livestream was for the launch of 40k. It was Jeremy Vetock, who also mentioned stuff about admech and Necrons.(which obviously came true with Forgebane) He did not swear. I was watching it live and was the first to share the news on Dakka which later got picked up by faeit.
Chikout wrote: So that Slaanesh rumour comes from the warhammer weekly youtube show were they were speculating about what a Slaanesh release MIGHT look like. Once again 4chan is trying to mess with people.
To be fair, the 24 hr livestream for New Years did have someone talking about Slaanesh models being worked on "hopefully releasing by 2019". Guy promptly dropped an F-bomb and it's been cut.
Yeah Slaanesh may well be coming but the hellraiser meets 80's guys in leather comment comes directly from warhammer weekly.
The livestream was for the launch of 40k. It was Jeremy Vetock, who also mentioned stuff about admech and Necrons.(which obviously came true with Forgebane) He did not swear. I was watching it live and was the first to share the news on Dakka which later got picked up by faeit.
We might have caught different parts of the livestream then, because the part I was referring to was the AoS bit. Was a brief thing, just a mention of models being worked on and then the F-bomb.
A bit disappointed the Idoneth Deepkin sprue's don't contain plastic carrier bags, plastic six pack can holders and random shopping trolleys for proper thematic bases. :(
Marleymoo wrote: A bit disappointed the Idoneth Deepkin sprue's don't contain plastic carrier bags, plastic six pack can holders and random shopping trolleys for proper thematic bases. :(
Though it certainly helps that they themselves are made out of plastic.
Lord Kragan wrote: This popped on 4chan (so take with a metric <censored> of salt!)
Slaanesh release in October
They are going with a more Hellraiser meets the 80s theme for the reboot
full 40k release aswell
edited for language - BrookM
*starts breathing heavily*
I need it.
Well, if there's anything to this rumor I'll certainly have to see those models.
And then I'll go and not buy a single one of them because I already get fits thinking of the fiddly bits my Skitarii have. Even thinner spikes and needles sticking out everywhere is... just not for me, I think.
I can't find this eel on the reavers sprue, weird. It says it comes with one and shows a different one rearing to attack. But then they include this image suggesting two different sculpts. Kinda bummed this kit doesn't have as many cool bits n bobs as the thralls, guess the bows quivers took up all the space.
rollawaythestone wrote: So are we expecting a third week of Idoneth, or are they going to break it up with a 40k codex release?
We're expecting a third week of Idoneth.
They've stated as much with the Art Prints, they've been labeled as "Week X of 5".
Now, we might get Harlequins with it since that's supposed to be a no model release.
NB : the Harlequins Codex may be coming alongside a new scenery kit : a Webway portal (usable by other Aeldari factions) - remember the Rumor engine ? This may only be a stratagem thing though.
BTW from the Idoneth Battletome (page 15), I guess we just learnt the name of the new Slaanesh AOS army, going from "Hosts of Slaanesh" to ... "Seekers of Slaanesh".
Morathi's actions on Slaanesh's prison keep being mentioned in the fluff since Dok and Malign portents, and from various places we keep hearing rumors of Slaanesh's return, either October-December 2018 or January 2019.
That's not much, but it's getting more and more credible.
Lord Kragan wrote: I am positive that just refers to one of the three specific hosts, as opposed to being a combination of pretenders, invaders and seekers.
I thought that first, but rereading the sentence in the IDBT it sounded more like the new faction name (it's also more Slaanesh related than just "Hosts of XYZ").
Thebiggesthat wrote: Slannesh are coming end of year. I don't often do the rumours thing but I was bang on for Nurgle and this is from the same source.
Keeper of secrets is wow apparently
Wow as in world of warcraft or WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!! ?
Thebiggesthat wrote: Slannesh are coming end of year. I don't often do the rumours thing but I was bang on for Nurgle and this is from the same source.
Keeper of secrets is wow apparently
Wow as in world of warcraft or WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!! ?
Haha I thought the same
I thing Thebiggesthat means wow like in "WOOOW, AMAZING"
Battletome: Phoenicium would be awesome, but I expect its a long ways out if coming at all since it could potentially have been destroyed in the Seeds of Hope campaign. Has the firestorm rules at least.
ImAGeek wrote: They’re direct only, so you can only get them from GW.
Direct only just means it has to be ordered in and isn't carried in stores. You can get a FLGS to order it in for you.
One possibility I've seen raised is, much like how the Daughters of Khaine were repurposed to be Morathi's faction and given lots of new unique units to flesh out the theme (Melusai, Khinerai, etc) it would make a lot of sense for the Darkling Covens to be the "core" for Malerion's faction. Darkling Covens give a good base to work off to add unique Shadow Aelf models that have an appearance more in line with Malerion, much like the pre-Battletome Daughters of Khaine did for Morathi. They could do the same thing with Tyrion and possibly even combine wayward factions like the Phoenix Temple and Lion Rangers together again.
ImAGeek wrote: They’re direct only, so you can only get them from GW.
Direct only just means it has to be ordered in and isn't carried in stores. You can get a FLGS to order it in for you.
One possibility I've seen raised is, much like how the Daughters of Khaine were repurposed to be Morathi's faction and given lots of new unique units to flesh out the theme (Melusai, Khinerai, etc) it would make a lot of sense for the Darkling Covens to be the "core" for Malerion's faction. Darkling Covens give a good base to work off to add unique Shadow Aelf models that have an appearance more in line with Malerion, much like the pre-Battletome Daughters of Khaine did for Morathi. They could do the same thing with Tyrion and possibly even combine wayward factions like the Phoenix Temple and Lion Rangers together again.
Oh yeah. But still, they don’t show on other stores, which is why they’ve disappeared from Dark Sphere etc.
A new "modern" high elf faction would be nice. In the meantime, i'm strongly considering picking up a few Deepkin things and running my two Island of Blood sets as Deepkin proxies mixed in. Of the elf faction to get a AOS update, the Deepkin seem like they could pull it off easier than the Slyvaneth or the Daughters of Khaine.
Griffons could be Akhelian Kings and I'd probably just run both kinds of foot soldier as Namarti Thralls. I think there's a some spellcasters coming up who my mages could stand in for. And the reavers would translate to one of the eel-mounted units, I'd need to look at their weaponry to see what is the best fit.
Caederes wrote: One possibility I've seen raised is, much like how the Daughters of Khaine were repurposed to be Morathi's faction and given lots of new unique units to flesh out the theme (Melusai, Khinerai, etc) it would make a lot of sense for the Darkling Covens to be the "core" for Malerion's faction. Darkling Covens give a good base to work off to add unique Shadow Aelf models that have an appearance more in line with Malerion, much like the pre-Battletome Daughters of Khaine did for Morathi. They could do the same thing with Tyrion and possibly even combine wayward factions like the Phoenix Temple and Lion Rangers together again.
I am highly doubtful this will happen. It seems they want to make a fresh start with these new armies, otherwise I'm thinking they could have done it with the deepkin and the privateers.
The Leviadon, Allopex, and Eels are all that's left. I could see them leaving the Leviadon for last and having the Allopex and Eels in week 4. But really, does it matter what order they come in? I think what's more curious is that they've released some Necromunda and Blood Bowl alongside Week 3, which makes me curious if they'll throw 40k a bone in the next couple weeks. My local GW manager was remarking on how his sales look pretty dull when 40k is ignored for too long
drbored wrote: The Leviadon, Allopex, and Eels are all that's left. I could see them leaving the Leviadon for last and having the Allopex and Eels in week 4. But really, does it matter what order they come in? I think what's more curious is that they've released some Necromunda and Blood Bowl alongside Week 3, which makes me curious if they'll throw 40k a bone in the next couple weeks. My local GW manager was remarking on how his sales look pretty dull when 40k is ignored for too long
I mean, it makes sense to add the Specialist Games stuff now when it's just 3 blisters for the Idoneth.
TheWaspinator wrote: A new "modern" high elf faction would be nice. In the meantime, i'm strongly considering picking up a few Deepkin things and running my two Island of Blood sets as Deepkin proxies mixed in. Of the elf faction to get a AOS update, the Deepkin seem like they could pull it off easier than the Slyvaneth or the Daughters of Khaine.
Griffons could be Akhelian Kings and I'd probably just run both kinds of foot soldier as Namarti Thralls. I think there's a some spellcasters coming up who my mages could stand in for. And the reavers would translate to one of the eel-mounted units, I'd need to look at their weaponry to see what is the best fit.
That's really good thinking. I may follow suit there...
Just a quick observation, it looks like the Blood Coven box for Daughters of Khaine as finally gone to properly sold out on the GW website instead of temp out of stock. So if you can grab it from third parties, now's the time to do it.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Just a quick observation, it looks like the Blood Coven box for Daughters of Khaine as finally gone to properly sold out on the GW website instead of temp out of stock. So if you can grab it from third parties, now's the time to do it.
Sold out online for the US webstore too.
Might just be them starting to plan a Start Collecting set properly for the faction, since the Blood Coven was basically a Start Collecting.
On a different tangent, anyone seen how much the Isharann characters are meant to be this weekend?
I was wondering about that. But what could you do as a start collecting that isnt' the Blood Coven box? Two units of Aelves and some Warlocks? But that lacks characters. All the characters barring Morathi are tied up in the Cauldron kit.
They'll probably be £15-20. Seems the standard at the moment.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I was wondering about that. But what could you do as a start collecting that isnt' the Blood Coven box? Two units of Aelves and some Warlocks? But that lacks characters. All the characters barring Morathi are tied up in the Cauldron kit.
They'll probably be £15-20. Seems the standard at the moment.
You could see the shrine repackaged with some of the new units possibly. Likely the Melusae.
*edit* because my brain has auto-correct enabled, and I don't know how to turn it off.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I was wondering about that. But what could you do as a start collecting that isnt' the Blood Coven box? Two units of Aelves and some Warlocks? But that lacks characters. All the characters barring Morathi are tied up in the Cauldron kit.
They'll probably be £15-20. Seems the standard at the moment.
Y'know, I wonder if it might be the first time they do a split of a kit for a Start Collecting?
Spoiler:
That frame has everything for the characters, Avatar, and Medusa all on it. I could see them including just that frame, a box of Witch Aelves, and maybe some Melusai or Khinerai?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chikout wrote: The heroes are all £15. On the slightly less expensive end of the scale.
Hm, my only concern with that is it's still got some of the cauldron sprue on it, looks odd having only half a sprue and could be confusing to anyone new. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I still want to get another coven box when element get some more stock tomorrow. That'll give me three cauldrons and 30 aelves for better value at least.
Hopefully its just that GW intend to replace the Blood coven's old WHF era instruction sheet with a more up to date AoS one and they are waiting for new product. Still a DoKSC box with a new hero model that's not tied to the Cauldron kit would be nice at some point.
A closer look into the reforging and why the Stormcast is at risk of losing their humanity?
Oh this just has gotten me back into Age of Sigmar. Life and depression has kept me away but reading this story rekindled what I wanted to do in the beginning of AoS. As much as I hate copying 40K, all I can think of is "Death to the False God. Death to the Coward. Death to Sigmar".
The reforging is a painful and flawed process. As sigmar was not able work out all kinks, As he was forced to unleash the stormcast early. To stop chaos form completely conquering the mortal realms and absorbing them into the realm of chaos. (according to Phil kelly during a GW stream)
Also it has been revealed that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow.
A closer look into the reforging and why the Stormcast is at risk of losing their humanity?
Oh this just has gotten me back into Age of Sigmar. Life and depression has kept me away but reading this story rekindled what I wanted to do in the beginning of AoS. As much as I hate copying 40K, all I can think of is "Death to the False God. Death to the Coward. Death to Sigmar".
Sigmar is not a False God or a Coward. If he was a coward he would not have reopened the gates of the heavens and went to war.
I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
pm713 wrote: It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Probably because the alternative was the utter destruction of the Realms.
pm713 wrote: It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Probably because the alternative was the utter destruction of the Realms.
That's the result of letting Chaos win. No point in beating Chaos if someone like Sigmar ends up in charge.
pm713 wrote: I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Sigmar is not actively killing any memory. That is the flaw, It is general memory loss and loss of emotion. And do you read the lore? Sigmar is not a lunatic and he is not tyrannical (I read most of the novels and lore). Do you think Sigmar who specifically chooses heroes would actively destroy what makes them heroes and their personality. That self-sabotage.
If you read the shadespire lore you would know that Sigmar is actively looking for a way to fix the reforging process.
During the beginning of the age of chaos, Sigmar made a choice. Either die fighting a unwinnable fight OR retreat and come back to fight for a brighter tomorrow. He chose the latter. Sigmar tried to get as many people as he could into the realm of heavens before closing the gates.
Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him.
I do not believe this is his attempt. A strong soul that is strongly attached to a certain emotions or causes of them, appears to have difficulties with adjusting to a new body. It isn't just Sigmar, the deepkin for instance came out flawed. Khinerai and Melusai as well, only that in their case I'd describe it as accepting those negative soul fragments and working with them, rather than trying to remove them.
How Malerion and Teclis overcome this gnaws my curiosity.
pm713 wrote: I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Sigmar is not actively killing any memory. That is the flaw, It is general memory loss and loss of emotion. And do you read the lore? Sigmar is not a lunatic and he is not tyrannical (I read most of the novels and lore). Do you think Sigmar who specifically chooses heroes would actively destroy what makes them heroes and their personality. That self-sabotage.
If you read the shadespire lore you would know that Sigmar is actively looking for a way to fix the reforging process.
During the beginning of the age of chaos, Sigmar made a choice. Either die fighting a unwinnable fight OR retreat and come back to fight for a brighter tomorrow. He chose the latter. Sigmar tried to get as many people as he could into the realm of heavens before closing the gates.
That memory of him seeing his people that Sigmar took him from causing them to all die? That seemed a LOT like erasing things that lead to questioning him. The memory caused him to question Sigmar and that was the flaw in the process. Free thought. You can be a hero and still not question Sigmar.
I read some but not as much as you because of the way GW have done it all.
Honestly this is my issue with AoS. Sigmar seems all too good. It's much more interesting with the outlook that Sigmar IS a tyrant. Which isn't that hard to believe. At the start of the lore there weren't elves around right? Except in Azyrheim, in Sigmars land. Like hostages to ensure the Elf pantheon go along with him.
Grungni and Grimnir are mysteriously chained to an anvil and found by Sigmar with Valaya nowhere to be seen. Seems VERY strange that two gods one of whom is so powerful he held a gateway into Chaos singlehanded ended up chained to an anvil. Unless Sigmar put them there and keeps Valaya somewhere to make sure the others go along with things. Except Grimnir probably wouldn't be cool with his people being hostages and so he had to die fighting a god-beast which seems like something he could handle seeing as even Morathi took one down unless someone helped Vulcatrix.
Nagash is found buried under a heap of stone and gets rescued by Sigmar. Seems ridiculous that a god could be trapped by stone but not so much if Sigmar put him there and freedom was why he joined Sigmar plus that explains why Nagash and Sigmar fight so much despite the threat of Chaos.
Alarielle was apparently woken by Sigmar from a hibernation and that's why she joined him. Odd that Alarielle would be asleep for so long it becomes concerning and I would've thought that a natural sleep could have been helped by the Branchwyches and such. But they can't stop something done to her by a powerful enemy. Like Sigmar. There's that gap in Sylvaneth memories too. Maybe Alarielle tried fighting back and failed and her people have to forget?
Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him.
I do not believe this is his attempt. A strong soul that is strongly attached to a certain emotions or causes of them, appears to have difficulties with adjusting to a new body. It isn't just Sigmar, the deepkin for instance came out flawed. Khinerai and Melusai as well, only that in their case I'd describe it as accepting those negative soul fragments and working with them, rather than trying to remove them.
How Malerion and Teclis overcome this gnaws my curiosity.
pm713 wrote: I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Sigmar is not actively killing any memory. That is the flaw, It is general memory loss and loss of emotion. And do you read the lore? Sigmar is not a lunatic and he is not tyrannical (I read most of the novels and lore). Do you think Sigmar who specifically chooses heroes would actively destroy what makes them heroes and their personality. That self-sabotage.
If you read the shadespire lore you would know that Sigmar is actively looking for a way to fix the reforging process.
During the beginning of the age of chaos, Sigmar made a choice. Either die fighting a unwinnable fight OR retreat and come back to fight for a brighter tomorrow. He chose the latter. Sigmar tried to get as many people as he could into the realm of heavens before closing the gates.
That memory of him seeing his people that Sigmar took him from causing them to all die? That seemed a LOT like erasing things that lead to questioning him. The memory caused him to question Sigmar and that was the flaw in the process. Free thought. You can be a hero and still not question Sigmar.
I read some but not as much as you because of the way GW have done it all.
Honestly this is my issue with AoS. Sigmar seems all too good. It's much more interesting with the outlook that Sigmar IS a tyrant. Which isn't that hard to believe. At the start of the lore there weren't elves around right? Except in Azyrheim, in Sigmars land. Like hostages to ensure the Elf pantheon go along with him.
Grungni and Grimnir are mysteriously chained to an anvil and found by Sigmar with Valaya nowhere to be seen. Seems VERY strange that two gods one of whom is so powerful he held a gateway into Chaos singlehanded ended up chained to an anvil. Unless Sigmar put them there and keeps Valaya somewhere to make sure the others go along with things. Except Grimnir probably wouldn't be cool with his people being hostages and so he had to die fighting a god-beast which seems like something he could handle seeing as even Morathi took one down unless someone helped Vulcatrix.
Nagash is found buried under a heap of stone and gets rescued by Sigmar. Seems ridiculous that a god could be trapped by stone but not so much if Sigmar put him there and freedom was why he joined Sigmar plus that explains why Nagash and Sigmar fight so much despite the threat of Chaos.
Alarielle was apparently woken by Sigmar from a hibernation and that's why she joined him. Odd that Alarielle would be asleep for so long it becomes concerning and I would've thought that a natural sleep could have been helped by the Branchwyches and such. But they can't stop something done to her by a powerful enemy. Like Sigmar. There's that gap in Sylvaneth memories too. Maybe Alarielle tried fighting back and failed and her people have to forget?
Sigmar is the most powerful and noble of the gods. This is not 40k, Sigmar is good, because GW wants that element in the setting.
Valaya was devoured by nagash during the end times and as for Grungni and Grimnir, Sigmar found them like that, When sigmar freed them, they swore an oath to. Grimnir swore to be his slayer and demanded fight something immediately(not all gods or god-beast are equal in power) and Grungni swore to be his smith. The aelves are not hostages. The lore is what it is, Not your head canon.
If you think everything has be dark and edgy to be interesting. That is your preference. I think it is refreshing that everything is not grimdark.
The reforging is a painful and flawed process. As sigmar was not able work out all kinks, As he was forced to unleash the stormcast early. To stop chaos form completely conquering the mortal realms and absorbing them into the realm of chaos. (according to Phil kelly during a GW stream)
Also it has been revealed that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow.
A closer look into the reforging and why the Stormcast is at risk of losing their humanity?
Oh this just has gotten me back into Age of Sigmar. Life and depression has kept me away but reading this story rekindled what I wanted to do in the beginning of AoS. As much as I hate copying 40K, all I can think of is "Death to the False God. Death to the Coward. Death to Sigmar".
Sigmar is not a False God or a Coward. If he was a coward he would not have reopened the gates of the heavens and went to war.
I find it amusing how when GW releases fluff with new info there are so often people who try to wave their epeens and claim there is no new info (because they are so well informed they knew it already). There IS new information, we didn't previously know there were Stormcast who stood guard to bind & restrain souls that resisted reforging, or even that reforging could be resisted to such a dramatic degree. And to head off the classic counterpoints; no, 'implied' or 'assumed' does not count because it isn't the same as explicit.
As for Sigmar I agree he is totally a good god, but being good doesn't mean flawless. Also it's important to remember there is a big difference between an in-universe presective of a Nagash or Chaos worshipper and the more objective reader's perspective.
The reforging is a painful and flawed process. As sigmar was not able work out all kinks, As he was forced to unleash the stormcast early. To stop chaos form completely conquering the mortal realms and absorbing them into the realm of chaos. (according to Phil kelly during a GW stream)
Also it has been revealed that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow.
A closer look into the reforging and why the Stormcast is at risk of losing their humanity?
Oh this just has gotten me back into Age of Sigmar. Life and depression has kept me away but reading this story rekindled what I wanted to do in the beginning of AoS. As much as I hate copying 40K, all I can think of is "Death to the False God. Death to the Coward. Death to Sigmar".
Sigmar is not a False God or a Coward. If he was a coward he would not have reopened the gates of the heavens and went to war.
I find it amusing how when GW releases fluff with new info there are so often people who try to wave their epeens and claim there is no new info (because they are so well informed they knew it already). There IS new information, we didn't previously know there were Stormcast who stood guard to bind & restrain souls that resisted reforging, or even that reforging could be resisted to such a dramatic degree. And to head off the classic counterpoints; no, 'implied' or 'assumed' does not count because it isn't the same as explicit.
As for Sigmar I agree he is totally a good god, but being good doesn't mean flawless. Also it's important to remember there is a big difference between an in-universe presective of a Nagash or Chaos worshipper and the more objective reader's perspective.
Very well, that bit is new. I don't think he is resisting the reforging(knowingly anyway). The story seems to indicate something is wrong with the souls, as it is taking longer then usual for them to be reforged. And we know that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow. I think he maybe doing something to the souls or pulling at them more strongly.
pm713 wrote: I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Sigmar is not actively killing any memory. That is the flaw, It is general memory loss and loss of emotion. And do you read the lore? Sigmar is not a lunatic and he is not tyrannical (I read most of the novels and lore). Do you think Sigmar who specifically chooses heroes would actively destroy what makes them heroes and their personality. That self-sabotage.
If you read the shadespire lore you would know that Sigmar is actively looking for a way to fix the reforging process.
During the beginning of the age of chaos, Sigmar made a choice. Either die fighting a unwinnable fight OR retreat and come back to fight for a brighter tomorrow. He chose the latter. Sigmar tried to get as many people as he could into the realm of heavens before closing the gates.
That memory of him seeing his people that Sigmar took him from causing them to all die? That seemed a LOT like erasing things that lead to questioning him. The memory caused him to question Sigmar and that was the flaw in the process. Free thought. You can be a hero and still not question Sigmar.
I read some but not as much as you because of the way GW have done it all.
Honestly this is my issue with AoS. Sigmar seems all too good. It's much more interesting with the outlook that Sigmar IS a tyrant. Which isn't that hard to believe. At the start of the lore there weren't elves around right? Except in Azyrheim, in Sigmars land. Like hostages to ensure the Elf pantheon go along with him.
Grungni and Grimnir are mysteriously chained to an anvil and found by Sigmar with Valaya nowhere to be seen. Seems VERY strange that two gods one of whom is so powerful he held a gateway into Chaos singlehanded ended up chained to an anvil. Unless Sigmar put them there and keeps Valaya somewhere to make sure the others go along with things. Except Grimnir probably wouldn't be cool with his people being hostages and so he had to die fighting a god-beast which seems like something he could handle seeing as even Morathi took one down unless someone helped Vulcatrix.
Nagash is found buried under a heap of stone and gets rescued by Sigmar. Seems ridiculous that a god could be trapped by stone but not so much if Sigmar put him there and freedom was why he joined Sigmar plus that explains why Nagash and Sigmar fight so much despite the threat of Chaos.
Alarielle was apparently woken by Sigmar from a hibernation and that's why she joined him. Odd that Alarielle would be asleep for so long it becomes concerning and I would've thought that a natural sleep could have been helped by the Branchwyches and such. But they can't stop something done to her by a powerful enemy. Like Sigmar. There's that gap in Sylvaneth memories too. Maybe Alarielle tried fighting back and failed and her people have to forget?
I am... I really have nothing to say. That's some impressive amount of headcanon.
xking wrote: I don't think he is resisting the reforging(knowingly anyway). The story seems to indicate something is wrong with the souls, as it is taking longer then usual for them to be reforged. And we know that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow. I think he maybe doing something to the souls or pulling at them more strongly.
I agree, he doesn't seem to be making a conscious choice to do anything. And like you said we do know Nagash interferes with the reforging process (to me it seems implies that he 'pulls' at souls somehow, which damages or diminishes them) and I think the conclusion that he is doing so more strongly of late has solid standing.
A closer look into the reforging and why the Stormcast is at risk of losing their humanity?
Oh this just has gotten me back into Age of Sigmar. Life and depression has kept me away but reading this story rekindled what I wanted to do in the beginning of AoS. As much as I hate copying 40K, all I can think of is "Death to the False God. Death to the Coward. Death to Sigmar".
Sigmar is not a False God or a Coward. If he was a coward he would not have reopened the gates of the heavens and went to war.
Oh I have some more to say. But if you like, we can have this discussion over in the Age of Sigmar forum. If not, I respect your opinion and will say no more. Just so you don't think I ment it as fact, it was in quotes and I said it in character of my minis. Hope this helps.
xking wrote: I don't think he is resisting the reforging(knowingly anyway). The story seems to indicate something is wrong with the souls, as it is taking longer then usual for them to be reforged. And we know that nagash is interfering with the reforging process somehow. I think he maybe doing something to the souls or pulling at them more strongly.
I agree, he doesn't seem to be making a conscious choice to do anything. And like you said we do know Nagash interferes with the reforging process (to me it seems implies that he 'pulls' at souls somehow, which damages or diminishes them) and I think the conclusion that he is doing so more strongly of late has solid standing.
I think this may be why Sigmar wants the shade glass from shadespire. As it can block nagash off from the souls completely.
xking wrote: Sigmar is not actively removing emotions.
He simply bashes the soul until it's fitting for his process. I find the core of the problem tied to the question of what is a soul in AoS and what laws govern it. At the moment I don't know how else to explain the diminishing humanity/increase apathy of SCE.
The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
I gotta say, as someone who knows very little about AoS lore, the fact that people can even have an argument about whether Sigmar is a good guy or not is a very good sign. It tells me that the lore maybe far more interesting than cliched goodies versus baddies.
Mr_Rose wrote: The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
Thing is, Sigmar is a warrior first and foremost. Always has been, even way back as a human. To understand Sigmar's approach one must understand that he approaches everything from that perspective (even when he think's he's being diplomatic or subtle). Sigmar probably perceives the Stormcast process as incredibly intricate as it is and doesn't understand the kind of subtleties that could improve it. Note that when Azyr was first closed off Sigmar's approach to banishing corruption was more or less to kill anyone engaging in any sort of unrest for any reason. Of course, it did work...
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I gotta say, as someone who knows very little about AoS lore, the fact that people can even have an argument about whether Sigmar is a good guy or not is a very good sign. It tells me that the lore maybe far more interesting than cliched goodies versus baddies.
There is definately quite a bit of the "end justifies the means" in AOS - the Battletomes are quite a bit more Black and white but even they have hints, notes and bits and pieces of this.
Sigmar is not totally good, but then even Nagash is not totally evil. Grungni in Spear of Shadows talks about some fo the flaws in Sigmar's plans and that he tends to assume that everyone is like him and does not need to explain things.
The Alliance of Order includes bloodthirsty Witch Aelves and their Medusae kin, the soul stealing Deepkin, fanatical witchunters and Church members and brutal, uncaring Stormcast.
Mr_Rose wrote: The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
I quite agree. I wonder how the Teclis's light kin turned out, considering the time difference between them and the deepkin shouldn't be that vast.
Mr_Rose wrote: The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
I quite agree. I wonder how the Teclis's light kin turned out, considering the time difference between them and the deepkin shouldn't be that vast.
The problem with the souls retrieved from Slaanesh is that they have all been damaged by the experience.
Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him.
I do not believe this is his attempt. A strong soul that is strongly attached to a certain emotions or causes of them, appears to have difficulties with adjusting to a new body. It isn't just Sigmar, the deepkin for instance came out flawed. Khinerai and Melusai as well, only that in their case I'd describe it as accepting those negative soul fragments and working with them, rather than trying to remove them.
How Malerion and Teclis overcome this gnaws my curiosity.
pm713 wrote: I think it is new. Knowing it was painful and flawed is one thing but that's Sigmar actively killing any memory that might make someone question him. It explains why none of the Stormcast ever went "Hey, this jerkface left my people to die along with millions of others! Why should we serve this tyrannical lunatic?"
Sigmar is not actively killing any memory. That is the flaw, It is general memory loss and loss of emotion. And do you read the lore? Sigmar is not a lunatic and he is not tyrannical (I read most of the novels and lore). Do you think Sigmar who specifically chooses heroes would actively destroy what makes them heroes and their personality. That self-sabotage.
If you read the shadespire lore you would know that Sigmar is actively looking for a way to fix the reforging process.
During the beginning of the age of chaos, Sigmar made a choice. Either die fighting a unwinnable fight OR retreat and come back to fight for a brighter tomorrow. He chose the latter. Sigmar tried to get as many people as he could into the realm of heavens before closing the gates.
That memory of him seeing his people that Sigmar took him from causing them to all die? That seemed a LOT like erasing things that lead to questioning him. The memory caused him to question Sigmar and that was the flaw in the process. Free thought. You can be a hero and still not question Sigmar.
I read some but not as much as you because of the way GW have done it all.
Honestly this is my issue with AoS. Sigmar seems all too good. It's much more interesting with the outlook that Sigmar IS a tyrant. Which isn't that hard to believe. At the start of the lore there weren't elves around right? Except in Azyrheim, in Sigmars land. Like hostages to ensure the Elf pantheon go along with him.
Grungni and Grimnir are mysteriously chained to an anvil and found by Sigmar with Valaya nowhere to be seen. Seems VERY strange that two gods one of whom is so powerful he held a gateway into Chaos singlehanded ended up chained to an anvil. Unless Sigmar put them there and keeps Valaya somewhere to make sure the others go along with things. Except Grimnir probably wouldn't be cool with his people being hostages and so he had to die fighting a god-beast which seems like something he could handle seeing as even Morathi took one down unless someone helped Vulcatrix.
Nagash is found buried under a heap of stone and gets rescued by Sigmar. Seems ridiculous that a god could be trapped by stone but not so much if Sigmar put him there and freedom was why he joined Sigmar plus that explains why Nagash and Sigmar fight so much despite the threat of Chaos.
Alarielle was apparently woken by Sigmar from a hibernation and that's why she joined him. Odd that Alarielle would be asleep for so long it becomes concerning and I would've thought that a natural sleep could have been helped by the Branchwyches and such. But they can't stop something done to her by a powerful enemy. Like Sigmar. There's that gap in Sylvaneth memories too. Maybe Alarielle tried fighting back and failed and her people have to forget?
Sigmar is the most powerful and noble of the gods. This is not 40k, Sigmar is good, because GW wants that element in the setting.
Valaya was devoured by nagash during the end times and as for Grungni and Grimnir, Sigmar found them like that, When sigmar freed them, they swore an oath to. Grimnir swore to be his slayer and demanded fight something immediately(not all gods or god-beast are equal in power) and Grungni swore to be his smith. The aelves are not hostages. The lore is what it is, Not your head canon.
If you think everything has be dark and edgy to be interesting. That is your preference. I think it is refreshing that everything is not grimdark.
It doesn't have to be dark and edgy to be interesting but it's stupid the way GW presents it. Oh Sigmar is the bestest. All these other gods were saved from things by him and made friends. I know the lore is what it is. The reason people have head canon is because they make their own narrative. It's not like GW can complain.
it's stupid the way GW presents it. Oh Sigmar is the bestest. All these other gods were saved from things by him and made friends. I know the lore is what it is.
Then why not accurately describe it? This I'm pretending to be slowed shorthand people use when talking about background pretty much ruins the conversation.
stormboy wrote: I wonder what happens to the unusable part of the soul? Where does it go? Is there a pile of damaged soul fragments in a back room somewhere?
stormboy wrote: I wonder what happens to the unusable part of the soul? Where does it go? Is there a pile of damaged soul fragments in a back room somewhere?
Eradicated. The Wizardcast duty is to prevent them to breaking loose. In the story.
stormboy wrote: I wonder what happens to the unusable part of the soul? Where does it go? Is there a pile of damaged soul fragments in a back room somewhere?
Eradicated. The Wizardcast duty is to prevent them to breaking loose. In the story.
Not exactly- the wizard prevents the entire soul from breaking loose. There is no reference to watch happens to the damaged/discarded piece of soul.
Mr Morden wrote: The problem with the souls retrieved from Slaanesh is that they have all been damaged by the experience.
Yes, it was described that some are missing its parts (Namarti and male - slave caste of DoK), the fortunate ones were tormented by millennia. Was there a paragraph where this "damage" was more specified, I honestly can't recall at the moment ?
it's stupid the way GW presents it. Oh Sigmar is the bestest. All these other gods were saved from things by him and made friends. I know the lore is what it is.
Then why not accurately describe it? This I'm pretending to be slowed shorthand people use when talking about background pretty much ruins the conversation.
pm713 just doesn't like the AoS fluff an has no interest in seeing positive aspects. Best move on.
it's stupid the way GW presents it. Oh Sigmar is the bestest. All these other gods were saved from things by him and made friends. I know the lore is what it is.
Then why not accurately describe it? This I'm pretending to be slowed shorthand people use when talking about background pretty much ruins the conversation.
pm713 just doesn't like the AoS fluff an has no interest in seeing positive aspects. Best move on.
I've also repeatedly said things that I do like. Excuse me for not thinking AOS is 100% magnificent and amazing writing.
I legitimately can't think of a single thing you've ever specifically mentioned as something you like about AoS. You constantly say you like plenty of things, but never say what they are. Then you make some strawman statement about people claiming the game is perfect an infallible. You're a hipster who doesn't want people to dislike him for being a hipster. Spoiler alert: No one like hipsters. Not even hipsters.
Sylvaneth, Kharadrons, Idoneth, Flesh eater Courts and Daughters of Khaine are all things I like and I've mentioned every one except FEC's before at some stage.
Guys, guys, do not let Khorne overcome you, right ?
I guess lots of you also go to War of Sigmar and TGA, but what do you people think of this theory, based on the Adepticon reveals (2 videos and new Shadespire cards), the cover of Soul Wars by Josh Reynolds, and the latest Malign Portents story :
2. It's really interesting to have at last more informations about the Sigmarabulum's factories and the Six Smiths. So, even if the Sigmarabulum (the artificial ring around Mallus where the Stormcast are created and stationed) is probably bigger than city-sized, each soul is indeed reforged individually (it's not an industrial process). Knowing more about the process itself makes the Stormcast's fate in the Time of Tribulations more tragic.
3. IMO Kavastus is one of the "Stormcast Wizards" from the Souls wars cover (with his stave and his use of "the magic of Azyr"). I think the situation will become so dire during the Soul Wars (after Nagash unleash the Necroquake spell) that Sigmar will be forced to launch the "Wizcasts", who are NOT a new Chamber, but the guardians of the Sigmarabulum, needed to watch over the souls of the Stormcast at war in the Mortal Realms and the souls of the other peoples of Order.
All the new Stormcast symbols seem to reflect the Reforging process an Anvil and Lightnings. Kevastus is also guarding the Anvil of Apotheosis, using lighting magic.
Mr_Rose wrote: The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
You ever listened to the "The Knights of Vengeance" AoS Audio Drama Collection? Simply being in sigmar's presence rejuvenates the stormcast mentally and spiritually. His light is like a healing balm to them. With the exception of the reforging flaws it seems.
Mr_Rose wrote: The problem is he takes souls that have literally just died (and are still suffering death-trauma) and then beats the stuffing out of them some more in order to make them fit their shiny new suit.
The natural transmigration of soulstuff is supposed to be life>death>assimilation>dissipation or reincarnation. Sigmar needs to stop skipping the assimilation part and build hisself a Valhalla or something to let his fallen Stormcast relax for a bit before reforging, but using shadeglass to prevent them from dying in the first place is a good stalling tactic.
You ever listened to the "The Knights of Vengeance" AoS Audio Drama Collection? Simply being in sigmar's presence rejuvenates the stormcast mentally and spiritually. His light is like a healing balm to them. With the exception of the reforging flaws it seems.
That lines up with what xking said; for it to be a healing balm it follows that there's something which can be healed.
The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
JSG wrote: The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
Problem is that he is never going to win considering how he does things. If you want the end of chaos follow nagash according to the lore writers it's why they are freaking out in the malign portent supplement. That's the grey aspect to the death alliance.
JSG wrote: The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
Problem is that he is never going to win considering how he does things. If you want the end of chaos follow nagash according to the lore writers it's why they are freaking out in the malign portent supplement. That's the grey aspect to the death alliance.
The inevitable failure part is what makes it so interesting, IMO.
JSG wrote: The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
Problem is that he is never going to win considering how he does things. If you want the end of chaos follow nagash according to the lore writers it's why they are freaking out in the malign portent supplement. That's the grey aspect to the death alliance.
The inevitable failure part is what makes it so interesting, IMO.
JSG wrote: The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
Problem is that he is never going to win considering how he does things. If you want the end of chaos follow nagash according to the lore writers it's why they are freaking out in the malign portent supplement. That's the grey aspect to the death alliance.
The inevitable failure part is what makes it so interesting, IMO.
So long as it doesn't just become "lolol deathcast! lolol chaoscast!".
We can(and have) had them failing without just becoming traitors.
GW has been good about that so far. And I don't see Chaos versions coming because even when they have captured Stormcast souls chaos forces have shown no interest in trying to corrupt them as opposed to using them as magic batteries. It would be 'deathcast' I'd say we could potentially see, but IMO it would be something resembling stormcast in the same way a knight of shrouds resembles a human--an undead created from the souls rather than a stormcast model with skulls.
A Kharadron arkanaut explores the ocean floor in search of a great treasure… but what he disturbs may spell doom for him and the humans who aid him as the Idoneth Deepkin rise.
READ IT BECAUSE
It's the very first Black Library story to feature the Idoneth Deepkin, the new additions to Warhammer Age of Sigmar, and it's a chilling tale that will leave you wary around water…
THE STORY
Ingdrin Jonsson, arkanaut of the Kharadron Overlords, swaps his sky-ship for an ocean-going vessel as he joins the fisherfolk of the Blackfire Bight for an expedition. With his arkanaut suit adapted to help him survive the crushing pressure of the ocean depths, he delves into the darkness in search of a great treasure. But when he disturbs something ancient and deadly, he brings danegr not only to himself, but to the humans who aid him. For the Idoneth Deepkin are rising, and they hunger for souls…
JSG wrote: The problem with the sigmar is a meanie angle is that he’s fighting a war against forces that threaten the physical and spiritual existence of every living thing in the mortal realms. Compared to chaos Sigmar is the de facto good guy. Same with 40k.
Problem is that he is never going to win considering how he does things. If you want the end of chaos follow nagash according to the lore writers it's why they are freaking out in the malign portent supplement. That's the grey aspect to the death alliance.
The inevitable failure part is what makes it so interesting, IMO.
So long as it doesn't just become "lolol deathcast! lolol chaoscast!".
We can(and have) had them failing without just becoming traitors.
Eh, we basically already have "chaoscast". They prefer to be called Khorne Bloodbound, though.
"with the store on the 4-5th of June having a large meeting, regarding age of sigmar and then told to make a new starter board, would suggest that we are getting a new edition. "
My guess is rather a new starter box, but that's pretty much common knowledge. It still gives us a date for its release: pre-orders will be either 2nd or, more than likely, the 9th of june.
thought writing these names was thinking. Or why he though dreadnought biting enemies to death was good idea, or why 
