I don't know prices, but the storm trooper box on the left is 20 models and the rifle squad box on the right is 10 and has fewer options. This is referring to the picture recently of the guys at WGF with stacks of sprues,
If Mark holds to his previous pattern, the KS price will be about the retail price. I'd wager $35 or so for the 20 man box and $20 for the 10. The accessory sprue that backers get free with every 20 man squad sold on its own for $10. Again, this is speculation based only on his previous KickStarter. This keeps him a bit cheaper than GW while being clearly at least as high of quality, a very good market position overall.
I'm more than ready to find something else other than 40K, especially with the disappointment that is 6th edition.
Of course, you can still play any previous edition if you can convince your friends to as well.
You and I both know that particular argument doesn't really hold much water.
If you're looking to maximize your player pool potential (!) you kind of have to go with the most current edition.
Of course, if you have a great group of like minded friends, that's another matter!
Yeah, I'm not a game-shop-gaming guy anymore, and even when I was it was more like a club that some of us ran there, so all friends, etc. Frankly, I'd assume that convincing your actual friends to play 5th (or 4th or whatever) and not binning your whole Alpha Legion army (I assume) might be easier than convincing them to go in with a whole new system plus associated models, painting, etc etc. I mean, it's not Infinity with a dozen or so models we're talking about here.
Krinsath wrote: I don't know prices, but the storm trooper box on the left is 20 models and the rifle squad box on the right is 10 and has fewer options. This is referring to the picture recently of the guys at WGF with stacks of sprues,
If Mark holds to his previous pattern, the KS price will be about the retail price. I'd wager $35 or so for the 20 man box and $20 for the 10. The accessory sprue that backers get free with every 20 man squad sold on its own for $10. Again, this is speculation based only on his previous KickStarter. This keeps him a bit cheaper than GW while being clearly at least as high of quality, a very good market position overall.
$35 for 20 of those is a reasonable price, i finally might get my "Dark Eldar" started.
RiTides wrote: We don't know yet, it may be $40... was $30 per box of 20 via KS, but only if you bought 3.
It's a Steal at $30, retail won't be that low.
Not saying they are ugly models or anything but $40 would push them toward the "GW premium kind of thing" which i am no longer doing.
Not really. You're paying 40 for 20 minis as opposed to 30 for 10 (guardsmen) or roughly 37 for 10 (space marines last i checked)
Bare minimum, at 40 bucks for 20, they're still a 1/3 cheaper than GW, for equal/higher quality. Not nearly as much a premium as opposed to starting a GW army.
RiTides wrote: We don't know yet, it may be $40... was $30 per box of 20 via KS, but only if you bought 3.
It's a Steal at $30, retail won't be that low.
Not saying they are ugly models or anything but $40 would push them toward the "GW premium kind of thing" which i am no longer doing.
I think you may be pricing yourself out of the market there. Consider that GW generally sells 10 basic troopers for... I was going to say $25, but looking at the site, I see 10 Chaos Space Marines are $37.25(!).
Vanilla Space Marines are 10 for $37.25, or 5 for $25 (what? How is that even possible?).
Honestly, when I started responding, I was going to chastize you and point out that 20 Dreamforge troopers at $40 would be 25% cheaper then 20 GW troops at $50... but like you I apparently was thinking ofGW prices from years ago.
A more appropriate comparison, such as to tactical marines, would be $40 for 20 compared to $74.50(!), the GW minis having an almost inconceivable 80%+ increase in price!
The only thing even vaugely comparable are 20 DE troops/IG, where 20 runs you $58. Only a 45% premium compared to GW.
Damn, I thought I was getting a good deal with Mark... I didn't realize that GW had gone berserk in the time since I stopped playing...
I had a post buried deep back there that compared this KickStarter to building an Imperial Guard army at an even model count and yes, the prices were that stark.
I don't have (or want) knowledge of Mark's finances or where he needs to be on these kits, I'm just basing it on the metal ones I previously purchased via KS; the retail price was essentially the same. That said, the $35 price is point that "makes sense" to me for a box you could potentially be selling tons of to hobbyists. Still, he might need to be at $50 a box for 20, and $2.50 a model is still well below what GW wants. I don't think he'd want to go lower because the people who already paid might be miffed (even if they get the extra accessories and the newcomers don't...human nature and all that). My gut feeling is just right around that $35 mark without the accessories sprue.
But maybe that feeling is just I ate too much at lunch... Mark has certainly been quite surprising over the years, but usually in good ways.
The only thing even vaugely comparable are 20 DE troops/IG, where 20 runs you $58. Only a 45% premium compared to GW.
Shouldn't 45% premium be 45% discount?
Sorry, that was clumsily phrased; going from Dreamforge Stormtroopers to GW "cheap" troops you pay a premium of 45%.
I blame GW for having blasted my brain. They blinded me with price increases!
Seriously, I honestly can't understand how they sell this stuff. 20 IG costs just about as much as a new AAA video game title? That feels like a threshold has been breached. It just is mind boggling.
Regarding the bases being 30mm instead of GW's 25mm, is that really an issue? I know a previous edition of the rulebook stated you could use a larger base, but is that not in the current edition?
Anyway, I also agree with the comments regarding the amazing quality and value in comparison with GW's products. I just don't think GW will do anything about it until it's too late for them.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Regarding the bases being 30mm instead of GW's 25mm, is that really an issue? I know a previous edition of the rulebook stated you could use a larger base, but is that not in the current edition?
Anyway, I also agree with the comments regarding the amazing quality and value in comparison with GW's products. I just don't think GW will do anything about it until it's too late for them.
Tourneys require you to be using proper bases, which I would guess would be the main thing. A lot of tournies are allowing 3rd party minis now so some people will inevitably use these guys to make armies and take them to tournaments.
The other thing is that while it may not seem like a big deal, those larger bases add up over time, and can give "advantages". For example, that extra 5mm may not seem like a big deal with a few guys, but let's say I made a foot guard army using these figures with their 30mm bases. A typical foot guard army has AT LEAST a hundred infantry. Those larger bases let me spread my guys out more and make it harder to hit me with templates.
As for the assault troops, the opposite applies, as they're essentially termis on smaller bases. That might let them slip through areas they normally couldn't, and make it easier for them to deepstrike into areas with smaller bases.
Most people won't care, but if you were playing in more "competitive" areas, it could be made into a big deal.
Sorry if this sounds ridiculous (or ridiculously obvious), but why not just get some GW bases if that’s your biggest concern? It’s not like they’re hard to get hold of. Bitz sites the world over sell ‘em for pennies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sorry if this sounds ridiculous (or ridiculously obvious), but why not just get some GW bases if that’s your biggest concern? It’s not like they’re hard to get hold of. Bitz sites the world over sell ‘em for pennies.
That's what i was going to do. GW used to sell their bases direct, but I haven't seen them in my store for ages.
No need to get GW direct bases- there are plenty of 25mm base providers, and they are wayyyy cheaper.
Proxie models are especially so, which are the ones I use. I know not everybody likes their bases, but there are lot of others.
Unlike some of you guys, I actually think GW prices are somewhat reasonable at times- for Units. But, this is mostly because they've been the only game in town.
Now I will have units from Dreamforge, and hopefully some Avatars of War units if they ever up production. GW had been worth it before because they were the only ones who could do plastics, and thus get a huge variety of poses for a large scale game.
Dreamforge selling the troops at $2 a model would still be fantastic, imo, although I was extremely happy to get a bit of a bulk discount buying 3 boxes worth during the kickstarter for $1.50 a model.
The key for me are plastic, and unit options, and Dreamforge is checking both of those boxes (along with being beautiful models, of course).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, while I know the markup on plastic figures is higher, I think this is actually opening the door to smaller companies. Before, only GW could get enough money to make plastic molds. Kickstarter enabled Dreamforge to do this, but it seems like every company is moving to a resin/plastic of Some kind.
This allows them to make more parts and still stay in business, opening the door to unit options, and true competition for GW on things other than hero models.
RiTides wrote: Also, while I know the markup on plastic figures is higher, I think this is actually opening the door to smaller companies. Before, only GW could get enough money to make plastic molds. Kickstarter enabled Dreamforge to do this, but it seems like every company is moving to a resin/plastic of Some kind.
This allows them to make more parts and still stay in business, opening the door to unit options, and true competition for GW on things other than hero models.
I think this really captures what can be wonderful about Kickstarter when it works: it lets people with know-how and good ideas compete with the big boys.
The problem with plastic, and the reason GW has been able to capitalize on it so well, is that the costs are all up-front and lump sum. Don't have $10-50,000 on hand? Well, you can't get into the marketplace for injection molded plastic.
Kickstarter helps people like Mark get around this, and I really wish all the best for him and this project. I think it's not only good for him, but for the entire gaming industry.
While Mark is perhaps the very best example here, consider also the women behind the Darkmyre kickstarter. Whatever you think of their products, could we imagine a pair of young ladies launching a line of (I think now) a dozen or more miniatures?
I do like what KS is doing for the gaming universe. Even non mini gaming is getting a boost. Boss Monster card game looks fun as hell and that Shadowrun RPG is something ive been waiting for since super nintendo.
I think Im going with those clear bases that I see on infinity models a lot. When I first saw them I thought "man thats stupid," now its "man thats genius." Plus I saw Panic's DE army and it looked extra sharp.
Also, does being part of the KS allow me to be part of the playtesters? I would like to get in on that and try to show some of my friends that there is life outside of 40k.
I think that everyone from the Not so tough pledge level and onwards are invited to be part of the playtesters if I'm not mistaken, might be mistaken as I'm not sure anymore but I think at a certain level you would get the invite for that.
It states in the pledge level description. I'm "Ready for Serious Stompin!" so I also get the invite as part of my pledge.
I didn't pile on to get the rest of the stuff even though it would have been cheaper for me to do that because I don't play guard and don't need yet another infantry horde. I do like the models and my one day start a force. Till then, I'll be happy with my big stompy titan/knight model.
Grundz wrote: Yeah, life is rather hard when the world doesn't cater to your every whim.
The what to the who now?
I wasn't complaining about it being 'hard'. I was mentioning that the design of the bases isn't ideal. Hyperbole can be left at the door... I'm not likely to lose sleep over the whole thing.
I order my loose 25mms from em4, which has 20 for about $3.25 / £2.04, which is way, way better than GW's price point. They also do the ever-useful 30mm and 50mm rounds (with GWish edge profile, not the "wm" style rounding).
You can order them, but in stores you have to buy the base pack, which only has a certain number of 25mm, with an inflated price to account for all the bases you don't need or want.
Champ industries makes some excellent 25mm bases with sci-fi deck like on ships and cobblestone textures. I bought a bunch to use with my marines and they were really inexpensive. They are black plastic exactly like GW with the same profile and space underneath, only drawback is he didn't make any other sizes. I'd give the web page but I'm on my phone right now and its on my desktop.
Plastic industrial bases? Wow! And at $0.30 each it looks like a great deal. Shame he only sells a couple of designs, especially since he has been in business since 2003!
...Didn't really bother. I mean, he'd have to tool injection molds for those; that's quite a major expense so I figured it's not going to matter much sending an email.
It's not exactly an end-of-the-world situation for me either way
RiTides wrote: We don't know yet, it may be $40... was $30 per box of 20 via KS, but only if you bought 3.
It's a Steal at $30, retail won't be that low.
Not saying they are ugly models or anything but $40 would push them toward the "GW premium kind of thing" which i am no longer doing.
Not really. You're paying 40 for 20 minis as opposed to 30 for 10 (guardsmen) or roughly 37 for 10 (space marines last i checked)
Bare minimum, at 40 bucks for 20, they're still a 1/3 cheaper than GW, for equal/higher quality. Not nearly as much a premium as opposed to starting a GW army.
I think its unfair to not mention that you get a pretty excessive amount of bitz to customise the DF troops too
Very true. And once the Valkirs are available, the bulk of those minis will definitely make them strong contenders for Space Marine count-as, at again a steep discount.
42$ for 20 Space Marines? Yes please. Need Devastators? 11$ for 5 heavy weapons? Sure.
I could very well see myself bringing a Grey Knight analog contingent to the table using these puppies.
When I had ordered from him it took about a week to get a response. This was about a year ago. He told me he was unable to get it set up for 40 mm at that time. But maybe we can get him to start a kickstarter to develop them, Lord knows we don't hav enough of those starting each week. I ordered enough of the tech deck ones for a battle company with extras for son scouts, officers and veterans. He shipped quickly and was very professional when I talked to him. Way back during marks first kickstarter I suggested he get into contact with this guy to use his bases, but h was wanting the round lips for style I think.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Very true. And once the Valkirs are available, the bulk of those minis will definitely make them strong contenders for Space Marine count-as, at again a steep discount.
42$ for 20 Space Marines? Yes please. Need Devastators? 11$ for 5 heavy weapons? Sure.
I could very well see myself bringing a Grey Knight analog contingent to the table using these puppies.
yeah, I have a crappton on the way, basic germans will be sisters of battle, heavies will be allied grey knights, adepticonstructs as penitent engines, mini mortis's as dreadknights
yeah, I have a crappton on the way, basic germans will be sisters of battle, heavies will be allied grey knights, adepticonstructs as penitent engines, mini mortis's as dreadknights
I'm going to use my mini-leviathans as dreadknights and either forge/maulerfiends. Can't wait til next year to get a hold of these guys!
Hell no it wont. We all know GW doesnt try to match someone who outdoes them...they will try to find some ground, no matter how shaky, to issue a C&D, if that doesnt work then GW will just pretend Dreamforge doesnt exist.
Breotan wrote: Exactly what could GW claim as infringement? Nothing DFG has looks like anything made by GW.
That's not the point. The point is whether DFG could afford to fight the claim.....probably not, that's how GW roles, I don't think they ever expected chapterhouse to ever put up such a fight. If anyone were to come after DFG for infringement it would be lucas, the stormtroopers have some similarities to Imperial stormtroopers, they even have the smile(frown whatever) and carry MG42's and are called stormtroopers..........I think it would be a real stretch though as none of those things are copyrightable and there are also plenty of differences.
Well, Lucas took "Stormtroopers" from the Heer of WW1 (and WW2) and MG42s from the Nazis, so he's hardly got a leg to stand on there. Many of the Kerberos Panzer Cops also have gas masks with the "frown", and they also have the Stahlhelm - and have been around for 25 years.
So anyway, I think we're safe there. Chapterhouse was much more blatant in following the "GW aesthetic" - and naming it as such, while DreamForge ..isn't even following the "GW aesthetic."
scipio.au wrote: Well, Lucas took "Stormtroopers" from the Heer of WW1 (and WW2) and MG42s from the Nazis, so he's hardly got a leg to stand on there. Many of the Kerberos Panzer Cops also have gas masks with the "frown", and they also have the Stahlhelm - and have been around for 25 years.
So anyway, I think we're safe there. Chapterhouse was much more blatant in following the "GW aesthetic" - and naming it as such, while DreamForge ..isn't even following the "GW aesthetic."
GW fllys pretty freely with those charges though. I would be surprised if they did, as I can't see any grounds......but not terribly so.
Yes I do also think charperhouse was more or less pushing the envelope a bit, but I've also heard of some pretty out there GW claims before. Especially considering the amount of pilfering that GW has done themselves.
Kerberos have gas masks but i've never really noticed the frown, I don't think it's the same. I mean, I guess it's there, maybe I've been distracted by the glowing eyes, but the stormtroopers are really similar. Either way I'm sure they are safe.
Commander Cain wrote: Plastic industrial bases? Wow! And at $0.30 each it looks like a great deal. Shame he only sells a couple of designs, especially since he has been in business since 2003!
Yeah lack of income to do more styles. These are injection molded and the mold is expensive. I have been toying around with setting up a Kickstarter to go after more styles and the larger bases.
If anyone is aware of Singh vs. BCA, it's never really the strength of the leg you have to stand on that matters, but how much money you have to throw at legal fees that is usually the determining factor in british court cases.
Fortunately, none of the above mentionned are even close enough to exclusively under GW's wing, and there is a game being developped, so here's to hoping! Or hopping, however you want to do it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Welcome aboard, Champ91! Did my email prompt your presence here?
Breotan wrote: Can anyone verify if Champ Industries is still in business or not? I tried contacting them a couple of months back but wasn't able to get any replies.
Yes still in business and I reply to all emails. However, sometimes emails get sent to the junk box and I do not see them. My appologies if I missed yours.
Glad to see you out here responding. Hope you've seen the demand for your bases, I would be interested in alternate bases for my storm troopers when I get them, maybe you can work with mark on his ideas.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: If anyone is aware of Singh vs. BCA, it's never really the strength of the leg you have to stand on that matters, but how much money you have to throw at legal fees that is usually the determining factor in british court cases.
Fortunately, none of the above mentionned are even close enough to exclusively under GW's wing, and there is a game being developped, so here's to hoping! Or hopping, however you want to do it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Welcome aboard, Champ91! Did my email prompt your presence here?
Yes Mathieu. I sent you an email back stating I would hop over.
I usually am just a troll over here looking at the painting and conversion stuff
Commander Cain wrote: Plastic industrial bases? Wow! And at $0.30 each it looks like a great deal. Shame he only sells a couple of designs, especially since he has been in business since 2003!
Yeah lack of income to do more styles. These are injection molded and the mold is expensive. I have been toying around with setting up a Kickstarter to go after more styles and the larger bases.
That sounds like a good idea - I think that Kickstarter would do well!
Breotan wrote: Can anyone verify if Champ Industries is still in business or not? I tried contacting them a couple of months back but wasn't able to get any replies.
Yes still in business and I reply to all emails. However, sometimes emails get sent to the junk box and I do not see them. My appologies if I missed yours.
Just wanted to add that I ordered a batch of both sets of bases from Champ Industries a few months ago. They arrived quickly and are quite nice.
I haven't taken any pics, but they arrived as pictured from the website.
It is true that there are only four models in each set but through rotation and painting you can make the appearance of variation. Also, there are a few quick and simple modifications you can do to change them up a bit.
1) a bit of plaster over bullet holes or other detail
2) cutting off sections of i-beam railing, rivets, or the rock bit
3) gluing on additional detail.
All of which are far quicker than making your own bases.
I've used them to base up a batch of modern police figures and am pleased enough that I will probably be buying more. Really one of the best deals in basing.
Aside from making 40k style bases, have you given any thought to making plastic "inserts" for the round-lipped bases used in Malifaux and Warmachine? Or even complete bases if inserts aren't practical?
Well, if 40K style bases are hardly profitable I don't think PP style bases really would stand a chance, sadly.
A KS style project would do quite well probably - biggest problem is probably getting folks to pledge a substantial amount, with those prices.
On the other hand, how much would tooling for a couple of bases cost - Surely that's not the most complex kind of mold imaginable? Maybe if Champ91 could enlighten us here as to the costs...
Or maybe the kind of setp-up that Proxymodels uses.
But regardless, I think Champ's bases would be fine by me, much better than having to cut and shape plasticard for 100+ bases (like I did for my SM company).
Plastic bases likely cost as much as plastic models to produce. I'd expect around $8000 - $12000 US just to cut the molds. That's a lot of bases that need selling just to break even.
Breotan wrote: Plastic bases likely cost as much as plastic models to produce. I'd expect around $8000 - $12000 US just to cut the molds. That's a lot of bases that need selling just to break even.
Not too far off. But I was smart in my design and the mold uses interchangable inserts for the design on the top. So I do not need to make a new mold for new 28mm bases. I do need a new mold for the 40mm and 60mm. And there is the cost.
I am meeting with the mold maker on Thursday to see about ironing out costs and feasability to do this.
GW fllys pretty freely with those charges though. I would be surprised if they did, as I can't see any grounds......but not terribly so.
Yes I do also think charperhouse was more or less pushing the envelope a bit, but I've also heard of some pretty out there GW claims before. Especially considering the amount of pilfering that GW has done themselves.
Kerberos have gas masks but i've never really noticed the frown, I don't think it's the same. I mean, I guess it's there, maybe I've been distracted by the glowing eyes, but the stormtroopers are really similar. Either way I'm sure they are safe.
/agree on GW's claims. As for the Kerberos stuff, there's been quite a few different gas mask variations over the years. I've got a 1/6 scale figure that pretty blatantly has the "frown", though as I'm moving in a week all my crap is packed away, and it'll take me probably months to find them. I can't remember which of the many figures it was either as quite a few manufacturers have made them over the years...
Breotan wrote: Plastic bases likely cost as much as plastic models to produce. I'd expect around $8000 - $12000 US just to cut the molds. That's a lot of bases that need selling just to break even.
Not too far off. But I was smart in my design and the mold uses interchangable inserts for the design on the top. So I do not need to make a new mold for new 28mm bases. I do need a new mold for the 40mm and 60mm. And there is the cost.
I am meeting with the mold maker on Thursday to see about ironing out costs and feasability to do this.
Oh and sorry about the thread jack.
Hm. Since you're still active, I'll have to put in an order for some of those bases. Probably right after Christmas is over.
Breotan wrote: Aside from making 40k style bases, have you given any thought to making plastic "inserts" for the round-lipped bases used in Malifaux and Warmachine?
I suggested making these once on the Defiance Games website, so it would be great if Dreamforge or Champ picked up the idea. The useful thing about them is that a Warmachine base insert and the top of a slottabase are the same size, so you could sell them for use with 30mm Warmachine bases, 25mm 40k bases or as standalone 23mm flat bases.
Ahh if only I didn't have bases for most of my army already! Not to mention I need Terminator bases for my assault troopers. I really do need to figure out basing at some point. It's a much less complex process then mass painting several armies so I think I'll leave it till I'm completely done with my Sisters and Space Marines. Perhaps a winter industrial theme.
Breotan wrote: Aside from making 40k style bases, have you given any thought to making plastic "inserts" for the round-lipped bases used in Malifaux and Warmachine?
I suggested making these once on the Defiance Games website, so it would be great if Dreamforge or Champ picked up the idea. The useful thing about them is that a Warmachine base insert and the top of a slottabase are the same size, so you could sell them for use with 30mm Warmachine bases, 25mm 40k bases or as standalone 23mm flat bases.
I did exactly that for my Cryx army. I took my bases clipped off the lip and trimmed to fit in the Warmachine base. Decided it was a PITA do do it and looked at making inserts. But thats as far as that went.
As far as base inserts, the best way to go might be if someone used the Hirst Arts method and came up with a mold that they could then just use to create as many of their own base inserts as they want. Sure there would still be people who wouldn't want the hassle, but if you needed 100+ base inserts and could make your own with a $30 mold then that might be a good way to get it done.
bbb wrote: As far as base inserts, the best way to go might be if someone used the Hirst Arts method and came up with a mold that they could then just use to create as many of their own base inserts as they want. Sure there would still be people who wouldn't want the hassle, but if you needed 100+ base inserts and could make your own with a $30 mold then that might be a good way to get it done.
Wouldn't base inserts be too thin to cast in plaster?
Breotan wrote: Plastic bases likely cost as much as plastic models to produce. I'd expect around $8000 - $12000 US just to cut the molds. That's a lot of bases that need selling just to break even.
Not too far off. But I was smart in my design and the mold uses interchangable inserts for the design on the top. So I do not need to make a new mold for new 28mm bases. I do need a new mold for the 40mm and 60mm. And there is the cost.
I am meeting with the mold maker on Thursday to see about ironing out costs and feasability to do this.
Oh and sorry about the thread jack.
I think you should start another thread over Champ Industries, common courtesy to DFG fans and more exposure to non-DFG fans alike seem pretty strong reasons why. :-)
I wonder how compatable the head sizes will be with other figure ranges. GW, Bolt Action etc. Even Space Marines with a mix of DF Helmeted and Forage cap heads could look good. Just a shame it's too late to add some troopers to my order, but the choice was between troopers or more giant mechs, so....
Hopefully WGF get some better UK distribution. Neither Fireforge Nor Trolltrader seem to stock their stuff at present. I used to get my WGF toys from Maelstrom...
Me too. The crazy part of it is that I had the cash but wasn't 100% sold. And now they just keep getting better and better. Hopefully retail on them won't be to bad.
it's funny, I was so focused on the rifle troops that I forgot that Ada and the Feral handler are also in the first wave. I haven't noticed anything regarding these since Update #73 on Nov. 9, I wonder if that may be what is contributing to the delay.
The preview of the handler leads me to imagine it's a rather complex model (since it is, after all, 2 highly detailed models chained together!), I wonder how that is going...
Ada also, of course, but she doesn't have quite so many intricate details.
At first I was sad that at the loss of hmg's and drum mags, but all those pouches and heads really make up for it.
I'll have plenty of hmg's anyway. It sure looks like he got carried away with weapon grips and arms though!
Not to worry, all those rifles and drum mags were moved to the core trooper sprues... You did not loose anything, you gained extras by moving them from the accessory sprues to the core trooper sprues, we made space to add all the extras
At first I was sad that at the loss of hmg's and drum mags, but all those pouches and heads really make up for it.
I'll have plenty of hmg's anyway. It sure looks like he got carried away with weapon grips and arms though!
Not to worry, all those rifles and drum mags were moved to the core trooper sprues... You did not loose anything, you gained extras by moving them from the accessory sprues to the core trooper sprues, we made space to add all the extras
At first I was sad that at the loss of hmg's and drum mags, but all those pouches and heads really make up for it.
I'll have plenty of hmg's anyway. It sure looks like he got carried away with weapon grips and arms though!
Not to worry, all those rifles and drum mags were moved to the core trooper sprues... You did not loose anything, you gained extras by moving them from the accessory sprues to the core trooper sprues, we made space to add all the extras
Ooooh, damn but you make the wait intolerable!
I feel your pain.... the wait on my end is agonizing as well. Honestly, what they have achieved in the time frame they were given is nothing short of AMAZING... I know it does not help but when I look at the sheer quantity of tooling they have created (not counting the WGF release and Wyrd releases) while keeping the quality top notch; simply breathtaking.
Souleater wrote: When is this stuff going on general release, please?
After the KS backers have been shipped their products for each phase, they will make their way into the supply chain. I have no idea how long it will take for the wholesalers to get the kits to the retailers in the various countries they serve.
Souleater wrote: When is this stuff going on general release, please?
After the KS backers have been shipped their products for each phase, they will make their way into the supply chain. I have no idea how long it will take for the wholesalers to get the kits to the retailers in the various countries they serve.
Mark, just out of curiosity, how is work going on the 2 exclusive miniatures? I am very interested to see further iterations of the Shadowkesh, and to see how Ada (and potentially her comrades!) are progressing.
I work in injection molding, so Ill throw a bit in here. A base mold would be like any other...the more complex the shape, the more variety of finishes, the more details, angles, etc...the more expensive it will be. For instance the mold for non slot GW bases would be cheaper than an equal size slotted PP base. The dipped center, the slot, and the curved lip would all require more intricate machining than the simple flat top and slant side of the GW base.
The one nice part of most bases is size, even a relatively small mold...say 6x10 inches...can gold a good number of 25-40mm bases. Maybe even one each of several sizes if thats what the customer wanted.
Even still...bases would be a volume item due to the relative simplicity and small size. If your not going to move hundreds of thosands or even millions, it might be a losing proposal.
Proxie Models does it because its one person in his free time doing everything...mold making, injection molding, etc. And he does a great job. I picked up a set of his 30mm bases a week or so ago from Ebay...perfect castings, no flash or warp. I will be buying more of his products for sure.
Souleater wrote: When is this stuff going on general release, please?
After the KS backers have been shipped their products for each phase, they will make their way into the supply chain. I have no idea how long it will take for the wholesalers to get the kits to the retailers in the various countries they serve.
AWESOME. Very glad to hear this. I guess you probably wouldn't have gone through all the trouble (and it seems you did quite alot!) if not for the possibility of making these expensive and difficult molds if you couldn't make them investments in future production.
All in all, seems like a very worthwhile use of the Kickstarter model!
At first I was sad that at the loss of hmg's and drum mags, but all those pouches and heads really make up for it.
I'll have plenty of hmg's anyway. It sure looks like he got carried away with weapon grips and arms though!
Not to worry, all those rifles and drum mags were moved to the core trooper sprues... You did not loose anything, you gained extras by moving them from the accessory sprues to the core trooper sprues, we made space to add all the extras
Not that i'm complaining, but comon, that many arms and weapon grips? you're just teasing us now
Knowing Mark... he would insist that the wingspan be enough to realistically carry the weight of the vehicle. That could be huge indeed. So I don't know how big wings that would carry the equivalent of one of his APCs would have to be, but I'm guessing at least 24 inches, all in all?
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I would probably buy it, too.
It may not even need large wings, depending on what kind of flight technology is used in the Iron Core setting.
I would love to see a design for an Eisenkern flyer, as well as a battle tank. But I'm sure Mark is currently quite busy finishing the digital sculpts for the 2nd and 3rd waves, to make sure they get out on time.
Any one put a bug in KR Multicase's ear about these? I for one would greatly appreciate custom foam for Leviathan stowage.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd also like to second the flyers, that would be epic across the board.
From the impression I got from the fluff Eisenkern's heavy armor support IS the Leviathans. I believe we'll see tanks amongst the Space Soviets and other factions where Leviathans are more scarce acquisition wise.
From the impression I got from the fluff Eisenkern's heavy armor support IS the Leviathans. I believe we'll see tanks amongst the Space Soviets and other factions where Leviathans are more scarce acquisition wise.
I would agree. It seemed to me that the wealthier factions use Leviathans almost exclusevly as front line armor, where the Protectorate (following Soviet influence) prefers larger numbers of cheaper units to do the same job. I cant wait for them, I want some Iron Core Soviet armor.
sooo, we have to wait till all the kickstarter stuff is shipped before we can buy the stuff that was shipped in nobember? just wondering. I didn't pledge anything because I figured the point was to sell stuff eventually and figured someone has to actually buy the stuff after you get it made.
I think they'll have the first wave stuff off the shelves pretty soon after shipping, once they have the molds made there's no point in not making stock
From the impression I got from the fluff Eisenkern's heavy armor support IS the Leviathans. I believe we'll see tanks amongst the Space Soviets and other factions where Leviathans are more scarce acquisition wise.
I would agree. It seemed to me that the wealthier factions use Leviathans almost exclusevly as front line armor, where the Protectorate (following Soviet influence) prefers larger numbers of cheaper units to do the same job. I cant wait for them, I want some Iron Core Soviet armor.
I'll just repost my earlier comments in this thread showing why I disagree with that assessment:
Maybe, but the fluff also makes it clear that Leviathans must be extremely expensive:
Independent households often barter away vast planetary resources to acquire a Crusader
Emphasis mine on the "vast" and "a".
Eisenkern uses this Leviathan as a powerful bartering chit with the Brotherhood. Tithing ten per year to the order, they have managed to make themselves indispensable.
And giving them only ten per year makes Eisenkern "indispensable." I'm sure Eisenkern would still use battle tanks, especially since they can't have so many Leviathans everywhere to fill the battle tank's role in combat in all engagements.
But, until Mark provides the definitive answer, it's all just speculation.
So mark are you going to assemble and paint some of those stormtroops, or are you waiting for the accessory sprue? I'd love to see some more of the poses you can build and how they might look with different paint jobs.
I'm kind of mixed on my opinions. I would like a complete Eisenkern alternative to an Imperial Guard force (right now, we're really only missing a flyer and a battle tank), but I also don't want Mark to "waste" time creating models that may not really have a place in the actual Iron Core game they are intended for. On the other hand, providing a complete alternative would allow more money to be rolling in to help fund the further development of the game and the models.
The Eisenkern still need a small walker, a medium tank, a flyer and some heavy artillery... Not to say I want to stop there mind you, but those would be the fist on my punch list to round out the faction.
I have enough heavily armored space manz, so I didn't get these, but I think they look pretty good. It was a bit more of a risk to me how he would make the skirting removable, too, but he's definitely tried to tackle that.
All my stuff is Stages 1 and 3, I think these are Stage 2 right?
I have enough heavily armored space manz, so I didn't get these, but I think they look pretty good. It was a bit more of a risk to me how he would make the skirting removable, too, but he's definitely tried to tackle that.
All my stuff is Stages 1 and 3, I think these are Stage 2 right?
Stage 3 I think, I got the smaller kits of heavies (assault and support) and all my stuff is also 1&3. I think that varieties of leviathan make up phase 2.
It's funny, but looking at them, especially in the action poses, I honestly prefer the skirting.
Gah, knew I should have stuck with the plan to get 60 basic valkir in addition to the 15 each assault and support. I like how you did the optional skirting Mark, they're looking great. I might have some with skirt for one role, and some without skirt for another roll (ie. assault vs support).
Grundz wrote: gah is it on dreamforges forums? I haven't been getting email updates >.>
Backer only update.. just to to the KS page and look at the latest update. Funny you mention the email... I no longer get an email either and I have my options set to receive all responses by email. I have to head there to check whenever possible.
Second, I voted pro-long skirt w/loin cloth. It'll create a great visual break in whatever armor color people choose since they'll have a complimenting color to use on the tabard.
I dont like the cloth bits at all...but I dont care for that kind of thing on scifi minis in general...However I am not pledged for any of them, so Im keeping out of the direct voting as to not skew the results.
I didn't go in for any of the heavies, so didn't vote but I like the loincloth and longer back alot better than the skirt and codpiece. Looks more elegant and more opportunity for some neat paintwork without being fiddly. Good place to demarcate faction/squads/clans/whatever.
I like the longer ones on the back but the shorter ones on the front. I think the long fronts might look good on the assault versions though. I didn't order any though so I'm not voting.
As long as the skirts stay removable, I am fine with both options (I am talking about the miniatures, not the Russians ).
Slightly prefer the long option though.
I had hoped to get a firm shipping date today but we need to wait one more day. WGF China is in last minute talks with one more shipping company that is promising a shorter sea transit time then the company they usually use, but they need one more day to work out the details. If it all works out, we can save about four days in transit…. Fingers crossed I can get you some good news and firmer dates once they work out the details.
The last test shots are done and they came out great! One of the components we were waiting on was a very complicated slide core shot for the head of the Leviathan. I grabbed a couple of Skype shots so the picture quality is poor but the results were terrific! With these components completed they are boxing the final parts right now in preparation for shipping
I also have some poor quality shots of the Feral Shadokesh and handler (screen grabs from Skype)
This week they will be getting me better shots of everything to show you and with any luck I can show the container being loaded
Thank you for your feedback on the skirts for the heavies! The consensus was to use the longer skirt and provide the loincloth as well…. Keep in mind the skirt, loincloth and Tassets are removable so you can have the figure without anything, with just Tassets, with Tassets and rear skirt or with Tassets rear skirt and loincloth…. I will get to work on the loincloth finals today but you can see the revised skirt length and improved fabric folds here. (Still a WIP)
All the best!
Mark Mondragon
DreamForge-Games
I am amazed at the Feral handler, I only wish I had bought more, hehe!
sparkywtf wrote: god damn I should have ordered one of the big guys.
Looking great!
Ah, it never ends with Dreamforge models, I ordered some of the big guys and was doubting about getting some of the armoured models, and now I"m bashing my head against the wall for not just jumping in and ordering some assault Valkir (actually, the same goes for the apc, and the normal infantry, argh damnit). It was/is all to tempting. Oddly enough, I am looking forwards to seeing what the game system will be as much as to the models, I truly hope it'll be a fun systm so the models won't have to be used as counts as only but can also be used for their own game.
And those shadokesh, I don't know what they will be getting but from that one model I am already thinking if they could be used as Dark Eldar counts as, just so I can justify getting some
I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to your Ruleset and the other factions - you and your team/partners are doing absolutely amazing stuff here!
I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to your Ruleset and the other factions - you and your team/partners are doing absolutely amazing stuff here!
I have to tip my hat in a BIG way to the WGF crew. Can you imagine if they were not as skilled as they are. Yes, I design the look of the models but without their skillful execution of the designs, DreamForge would see an early grave. Its a very big deal that they do what they do as well as they do it Seeing the finished plastic allows me a HUGE sigh of relief, knowing that they can faithfully produce what I give them is simply amazing when you think that none of these were designed for this process... the engineering side needs to be as strong or stronger than the initial design for it all to work.
The game is still a point of angst for me, another very large project that will succeed or fail based on the skill and insight of all those involved including the customers that participate in the development group. I will need to cross that bridge once the KS backers have been taken care of.
Yeah mark, I think they really stepped things up, I was among those that were "ho hum" about chosing WGF but they've really come through, big time.
Now i'm sad I didnt get a heavy weapons squad :(
Wow!
I guess having good designers is half the battle. The HW figs above are so far ahead of the WGF greatcoat troopers HW squad that it's like a different company from a different decade!
Really impressive stuff, easily on par with the plastic kits of any other high-end wargames company.
NoseGoblin, are you considering selling these models directly to stores once the KS rewards are out, or through a distributor?
I have a FLGS that I think would be VERY interested (they stock lots of Mantic, for instance, and are always looking for new sci-fi lines). I can send you their info or vice versa if it'd be appropriate.
But maybe you're going to go through a distributor instead of direct to stores, in which case nevermind
While patience is not one my virtues usually, WGF has done an amazing job. Mark is downplaying his own role in the fabulous designs a bit, but he's right to give a shout-out the engineering guys at WGF for a top-notch job. I was hesitant to commit the sum of money I did to this project but thus far I appear to be in line to be amply rewarded.
Now that mature, rational thought has been indulged, we return to the 10-year-old mentality: GIMME MAH SHIP DATE!
Ye gods, after seeing the pics of the support weapons...
Mark, how much would it cost to have you fly out to China, pick up my stuff, and then personally deliver it to my door by the end of the week?
Alpharius wrote: Given how awesome everything is turning out, I'm betting there's a lot of people out there who wished they'd joined in.
The polite thing would be to not rub it in....jerk.
I'm taking solace in the nerd hipster cred of having supported Mark's first Kickstarter. On quiet nights I can hear my metal Eisenkern's desperate screams from inside a plastic bag, in a drawer, in my basement.
Damn, I wish I had money to invest in some of these kickstarters and this one would be the one! These troopers looks fantastic! So sad I was unable to put some in, now I have to wait and possibly pay more for retail versions of these fantastic models...
I'm taking solace in the nerd hipster cred of having supported Mark's first Kickstarter. On quiet nights I can hear my metal Eisenkern's desperate screams from inside a plastic bag, in a drawer, in my basement.
Wow, I think that's the best post I've read all year . Bravo
Wargames Factory has been churning out some fantastic kits recently - the War of Spanish Succession Artillery and the last few Samurai releases are all ridiculously high quality.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: The black widows period, personally. They're wave 3 so I know it'll be a while, but them chicks have got me all turned on.
Those AT guns on the HW sets... pure beauty.
I'm wondering how much the Black Widows will retail for, as a viable plastic alternative to SoB. Oh wait, they'd be the ONLY plastic alternative.
The heavy weapons look great just like everything else. I just don't think they were thought out all that well. The shells for the cannon are small, so shouldn't it be magazine fed or fed from an auto loader. I could see manually loading large shells, but those are not so large. The mortar, again, while cool looking doesn't make sense to me, why mag feed a mortar from the top(unless it shoots all three at the same time....which I suppose it could)? It just seams very weird to me. Same with the quad HMG, its being fed from standard ammo hoppers, the crew is going to have to work hard to keep it fed.
I think the design and execution of the miniatures themselves is great. I just don't think enough thought goes into the weapons, I don't like the weapons that the basic troops come with either. Your choice of either SMG or HMG with nothing in between, its too long to be an assault rifle which is what stormtroopers should have.
Maybe the fluff will justify what is going on here, but to me some minor flaws in otherwise brilliant models. I guess when I see something this good, I want it to actually be perfect.
Not trying to nit pick, love the guys and I have 60 of them on the way.
Alpharius wrote: Given how awesome everything is turning out, I'm betting there's a lot of people out there who wished they'd joined in.
The polite thing would be to not rub it in....jerk.
I'm taking solace in the nerd hipster cred of having supported Mark's first Kickstarter. On quiet nights I can hear my metal Eisenkern's desperate screams from inside a plastic bag, in a drawer, in my basement.
I'm not bragging - I swear!
I only got in on the 'just after the fact' option Mark graciously opened up!
It's amazing what a jump he was able to make from the metal kickstarter to the plastic (I think at least 40 times higher total, from 5K to 205K!). Both in terms of funds raised and the quality and number of sculpts he is having made. It's really exciting
If the crew is cycling ammo types or has to pack each load like an arty peice, magazine fed doesn't make sense
the quadmg42 mount has been in service in one way or another for about 60 years now, the drums are not standard magazines like you claim
the triple mortor thing, is weird
The triple mortar looks to be a cartridge that's fired in a manner similar to a Thudd gun. Three shots from a variety of angles negates cover better than a single round, but puts the same amount of steel in the air. Combined with a single-shot option for when that's more appropriate, it would seem to be a very versatile piece.
If the crew is cycling ammo types or has to pack each load like an arty peice, magazine fed doesn't make sense
the quadmg42 mount has been in service in one way or another for about 60 years now, the drums are not standard magazines like you claim
the triple mortor thing, is weird
Yep, nail on the head... The Triple mortar actually makes the most sense to me All the rounds stay in the magazine and are released down the barrel one at a time or all at once. If you look at the support arm you will see the servo on each axis. There is a guy in the rear with a fire control computer. He stets the dispersion pattern and fire rate for all three shots. This would give an amazing amount of control. (within the limits of the units accuracy)
speaking of the computer, whats the expected pose with those things? is he holding the laptop in one hand and typing with the other with it propped against his waist or what? Not nitpicking since I'm sure its less awkward for a power armored monster to do, but man, sounds awkward to attempt, lol.
I'm thinking I'm going to fold mine together and make little tablet pc's out of the command squad ones
Grundz wrote: speaking of the computer, whats the expected pose with those things? is he holding the laptop in one hand and typing with the other with it propped against his waist or what? Not nitpicking since I'm sure its less awkward for a power armored monster to do, but man, sounds awkward to attempt, lol.
I'm thinking I'm going to fold mine together and make little tablet pc's out of the command squad ones
He is in the shot of the miniature... He is kneeling with one hand poking at the screen. These are military field computers in large cases, built to be robust and shielded vs electromagnetic and radiation bursts.
(edit) if you are talking about the extra one included in the accessory pack then you will need to use a kneeling pose and stack it on one of the crests to get the height.... The CO's have small map tablets pc's, the pouch is represented but the tablet is not .
Also it looks like you have no choice but to ship me free stuff to take pics of since the wargamesfactory guys don't clean up their flashing properly ;-)
If the crew is cycling ammo types or has to pack each load like an arty peice, magazine fed doesn't make sense
the quadmg42 mount has been in service in one way or another for about 60 years now, the drums are not standard magazines like you claim
the triple mortor thing, is weird
If you are cycling different ammo types it does make sense, but they look to be about the size of auto cannon shells maybe 20-30mm. Most weapons that fire those size rounds are going for cyclic rate. Again fluff could dictate the different style, I'm just comparing it to similar modern systems.
The quad mg 42 rarely used the small 75 round drums, usually belt fed from large linked belts. I claim the mags are standard because you get enough in the box to outfit every trooper with them. I would just think that a fixed weapon would have a more robust feed system. As far as logistics it would be easier for them all to use the same mag, but when I think of a quad gun emplacement, I'm thinking of something that should have some major sustained firepower. That is four ammo drums that have to be replaced every time they run dry, that's a lot of work for the crew and downtime for the weapon.
The mortar is very cool looking, just the loading and firing system seam overly complex. I'm sure I'm over thinking it, but if each mag holds three rounds, we need six caps to keep the rounds clean form dirt and such. Now the top caps could be fly aways, but the bottom caps have to move to drop the rounds. Its very complex and tricky when you want simple and easy. Now maybe the rounds could be held in place by a magnetic suspension system, thus eliminating the need for the caps.
You know what never mind, there is no need to pick these apart.
Again, sorry to nit pick. These are by far the best sci fi heavy weapons teams that I have seen.
I think its fair to say that nickpicking on the Heavy Weapons is a bit out of the question since they also have giant walkers which will probably never ever ever be viable, especially armed with giant swords
But I agree that the triple mortar looks funky. The engineer must have had a bit too much craziness going in his mind
kenshin620 wrote: I think its fair to say that nickpicking on the Heavy Weapons is a bit out of the question since they also have giant walkers which will probably never ever ever be viable, especially armed with giant swords
But I agree that the triple mortar looks funky. The engineer must have had a bit too much craziness going in his mind
I think the triple mortar is very cool looking, and the idea is great. I was being too.....well too much. Sometime when I really like something, I pick it apart too much. Great work Mark.
The quad mg 42 rarely used the small 75 round drums, usually belt fed from large linked belts. I claim the mags are standard because you get enough in the box to outfit every trooper with them. I would just think that a fixed weapon would have a more robust feed system. As far as logistics it would be easier for them all to use the same mag, but when I think of a quad gun emplacement, I'm thinking of something that should have some major sustained firepower. That is four ammo drums that have to be replaced every time they run dry, that's a lot of work for the crew and downtime for the weapon.
Mg42's don't do sustained firepower, they overheat too fast at around 20 rounds per second, there's no real need to throw almost 100rps at something which is why its so hilarious to see, when used for AI they didn't cock two of the mg's until the first two ran dry so there was no vulnerable reloading period and the guns wouldn't overheat as badly Then again I don't see oven mitts and extra barrels on the HW teams so maybe in the grim darkness of the awesome german future they've overcome such things.
The quad mg 42 rarely used the small 75 round drums, usually belt fed from large linked belts. I claim the mags are standard because you get enough in the box to outfit every trooper with them. I would just think that a fixed weapon would have a more robust feed system. As far as logistics it would be easier for them all to use the same mag, but when I think of a quad gun emplacement, I'm thinking of something that should have some major sustained firepower. That is four ammo drums that have to be replaced every time they run dry, that's a lot of work for the crew and downtime for the weapon.
Mg42's don't do sustained firepower, they overheat too fast at around 20 rounds per second, there's no real need to throw almost 100rps at something which is why its so hilarious to see, when used for AI they didn't cock two of the mg's until the first two ran dry so there was no vulnerable reloading period and the guns wouldn't overheat as badly Then again I don't see oven mitts and extra barrels on the HW teams so maybe in the grim darkness of the awesome german future they've overcome such things.
Well if figure they may have figured out some new tech for the overheating by then, new alloys that are liq nitro cooled maybe. Still gonna run out of ammo quick.
We estimate at this point, that it will be in the WGF Utah warehouse the last week of January.
Aaaaaaargh! Damn you Mark! The waiting, it burns!
Ahem.
On a more... informative note, how are the single/double figures for the KS done (Ada and the Handler/feral)? Single, smaller sprues in individual molds, akin to GW's most recent plastic character miniatures, or are they cut from larger sprues?
Also, the promo figures are so amazing, I can't help but ask if they will be available later? I think I probably bought my fill, but such wonderful efforts, I appreciate limited editions for the campaigns, will they be made available elsewhere?
jmurph, when you have a closer look at the right hand you might see that the anti tank rifle has been attached to it. So i think you might give her also a SMG if you want to.
jmurph wrote:Can she take a standard gun if you don't want something quite so.... big?
miniholic wrote:jmurph, when you have a closer look at the right hand you might see that the anti tank rifle has been attached to it. So i think you might give her also a SMG if you want to.
Her hand attaches to a pistol grip, the male ST do the same so it is possible... you may need to do a very small amount of surgery on the rifle stock but it should work.
We estimate at this point, that it will be in the WGF Utah warehouse the last week of January.
Aaaaaaargh! Damn you Mark! The waiting, it burns!
Ahem.
On a more... informative note, how are the single/double figures for the KS done (Ada and the Handler/feral)? Single, smaller sprues in individual molds, akin to GW's most recent plastic character miniatures, or are they cut from larger sprues?
Also, the promo figures are so amazing, I can't help but ask if they will be available later? I think I probably bought my fill, but such wonderful efforts, I appreciate limited editions for the campaigns, will they be made available elsewhere?
My understanding is they are small sprues. They will not be available for retail sale but we will make them available as special prizes for the conventions and possible as promotional items from time to time.
Idle thoughts.
My understanding is they are small sprues. They will not be available for retail sale but we will make them available as special prizes for the conventions and possible as promotional items from time to time.
Mark, can you address the issue of Wave2 and Wave3, regarding the delays of Wave1? Does this mean that other waves are going to be delayed to keep the same release gaps between waves?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Mark, can you address the issue of Wave2 and Wave3, regarding the delays of Wave1? Does this mean that other waves are going to be delayed to keep the same release gaps between waves?
I'd rather not, but I,d rather have the truth.
Everything for 2 and 3 looks to be on track. I do not anticipate any delays.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Mark, can you address the issue of Wave2 and Wave3, regarding the delays of Wave1? Does this mean that other waves are going to be delayed to keep the same release gaps between waves?
I'd rather not, but I,d rather have the truth.
Everything for 2 and 3 looks to be on track. I do not anticipate any delays.
I think all my stuff is Wave 1, but I'm very pleased to hear this. Just says good things about you, Mark, and the folks at WGF, etc.
Glad I kicked in on this, and wish I'd kicked in more!
The screw are used on ball joints and other components that need tension to work properly. You can quite literally leave this kit poseable for months or years of play if you choose, the tension created by the ball joints is more than enough to have the kit retain its pose. At any point a drop or two of model cement will lock everything into a fixed pose, but until you decide exactly what pose you would like… you are free to play. Watching the legs and torso move with working hydraulics is a pretty fun experience
The screw are used on ball joints and other components that need tension to work properly. You can quite literally leave this kit poseable for months or years of play if you choose, the tension created by the ball joints is more than enough to have the kit retain its pose. At any point a drop or two of model cement will lock everything into a fixed pose, but until you decide exactly what pose you would like… you are free to play. Watching the legs and torso move with working hydraulics is a pretty fun experience
This makes my jaw drop.
Love this
And this sooooo much:
catharsix wrote: :
Glad I kicked in on this, and wish I'd kicked in more!
-C6
But like plastictrees, I revel in my nerd hipster cred of backing you before it was cool with my ten 5.5" resin walkers. I actually have a friend who wants a few due to the in between height, but I won't let them go
Can't wait for my plastic troopers, support weapons and APCs, though
Your casting quality knocks 7 shades of s*** out of what GW is currently capable of producing, even without considering the awesomeness that is posable screw joints.
Thanks for pushing the bar on this! The plastics industry for wargaming has been stuck with 1970's pantograph tech for too long, and no-one has bothered to keep up with the advances seen in other areas (japanese gundam kits etc).
What you're doing with this is beyond ambitious, even little touches like the name pad show an excellent attention to detail and polish that most manufacturers would never bother with.
The screw are used on ball joints and other components that need tension to work properly. You can quite literally leave this kit poseable for months or years of play if you choose, the tension created by the ball joints is more than enough to have the kit retain its pose. At any point a drop or two of model cement will lock everything into a fixed pose, but until you decide exactly what pose you would like… you are free to play. Watching the legs and torso move with working hydraulics is a pretty fun experience
That is insane. The only thing Ive seen even close to that in the model world is the Gundam series. The packing is amazing as well. This kit is going to set all kinds of standards when it hits the market.
Just as during the KickStarter Mark's designs exhausted my wallet, his efforts with WGF's engineering seem to be exhausting my ability to lavish praise upon them. Absolutely amazing all around, as others have said more eloquently than me.
While I'm obviously thrilled at getting 2 of these soon and a third in March, I'm also excited by what Mark's raising the bar will accomplish for the market as a whole. It's also great that the community helped make this become a reality, even if all we did was look at Mark's work and say "Yes this is a thing that needs to exist."
Yup, I'm not buying a single freaking model from GW again. (Short a Valkyrie maybe... and that's a serious maybe) Ada looks great, and my god I can't say enough nice things about the Leviathans.
This is neck and neck for "most anticipated package of the new year" and considering it's competition is an M1 Garand...
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Yup, I'm not buying a single freaking model from GW again. (Short a Valkyrie maybe... and that's a serious maybe) Ada looks great, and my god I can't say enough nice things about the Leviathans.
This is neck and neck for "most anticipated package of the new year" and considering it's competition is an M1 Garand...
I'm miffed I didn't put money down on this. The things are turning out to be really really sexy.
At least Ada seems like a one-off for now, so it's not like I really missed out... maybe next kickstarter we'll see more of her ^.^ She's a real pleasing figure given how normal her pose and how normal she looks.
edit: i did put money down, i know, but not my own order......
So, how much is the Lev gonna cost in store, a C-note? Still bummed i couldn't afford to get at least one during the KS. Stupid friend and his stupid destination wedding...whatever...pffft...
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I believe he said above that these would be disributed by WGF. If that's the case, then you can be sure you'll see these in places like Warstore (who carries WGF and Defiance Games) and likely at a 20% discount.
Assuming all this is true, at those places, I'm not sure that it will be much more than the KS prices.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Yup, I'm not buying a single freaking model from GW again. (Short a Valkyrie maybe... and that's a serious maybe) Ada looks great, and my god I can't say enough nice things about the Leviathans.
This is neck and neck for "most anticipated package of the new year" and considering it's competition is an M1 Garand...
All this talk of Leviathans is inspiring me... hoping to go home and assemble 4 of my resin ones right after the holidays, so I can run 2000 points (40k counts-as).
I think the next is the race he previewed with the KS exclusive model, but nothing firm on dates. I think he's rightfully getting stages 1-3 of the KS done first (and hopefully start selling them and generating income, too, which they certainly will once generally released).
I would like to know more about the rules of the game (which appear to be nonexsistant atm) before contributing to the game. I love the look and concept of the models and understand its going to be primarily a vehicle based combat game, but I would rather see or playtest a rough draft of the game before making financial commitments.
Well, the period to contribute is long past but if you mean buying these models off the shelf, they're not yet available for that, so it's in a bit of an in-between stage!
They should be available shortly, in which case most folks I know who are interested them are using them for other game systems.
I think it could be a good idea for Mark to include bringing someone in to help get a solid set of rules down as a part of any future campaign he would run... i.e., instead of just introducing a new faction, introduce a rulebook as a part of it, too.
Those who already committed would probably be really interested in another use for their models, but it seems to me that a lot of these companies coming up with alternate models are having a harder time coming up with rules. It's hard to be CEO / designer / rules writer all at once, so outsourcing that or bringing someone on to help with it could be a good idea at some point.
No chance of adding to our pledges anymore is there? Even if we flutter our eyelashes and show some leg?
The only reason I'm not kicking myself over owning GW guard is that they're heavily converted Tanith and renegade (beastmen) guard. The stormtroopers blow the cadians, catachans etc. out of the water. The Valkir do the same for marines - thankfully I don't have an SM army yet, but only ordered 15 assault and 15 support valkir so not a complete army yet.
I believe Mark said when he was done shipping all of the waves of the Kickstarter he would start working on the rules. and that all of the Kickstarter contributors would be asked to give feedback while they were being developed.
I sincerely hope they do in action reaction system rather than an I go you go system.
Mark, please start planning for next wave you have hit the market just at the right time you could capture a greater market share with an opposing force to fight. I know I dropped alot on the ks and have not been disappointed only amazed on how close your stuff looks to the 3d renders. I can only imagine how tanks or the flyers might look.
Paitryn wrote: I would like to know more about the rules of the game (which appear to be nonexsistant atm) before contributing to the game. I love the look and concept of the models and understand its going to be primarily a vehicle based combat game, but I would rather see or playtest a rough draft of the game before making financial commitments.
I'm personally not too concerned with the rules for Mark's game. The figures I've got on order will slot right into my existing game(s), Something about a Hammer, I think...
I've been learning about Infinity, and I think I can convert a lot of different PanO units from the different types of minis I'll be getting from this KS.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I've been learning about Infinity, and I think I can convert a lot of different PanO units from the different types of minis I'll be getting from this KS.
Mark, Happy Holidays!
I thought Infinity models were really Anime-esque? No offense to the stormtroopers, but wouldn't they look REALLY out of place there?
Don't know much about infinity though to be honest, only enough to know that I hated the look of the models and that really turned me off from it.
The Gears look very Anime. And I'd probably use those from Corvus Belli, just for scale purposes, at least. But the minis are in line with most other companies, but have somewhat better proportions, imho.
And since there is no distributor for Canada, from what I found out, it is a pain to get. Which is sad, but will make Mark more money from me.
I never said they had giant eyes, boobs the size of watermellons, and blue hair. I just said they look anime inspired, a look I don't really care for. All the figs I've seen in person are very slim as well, another thing that I disliked. Bash GW's chunky heroic scale all you want, but it does make the models easier for clumsy people like me to work with. I've used finicky models in the past like WGF germans and the UAMC marines, and I hated it. Thankfully Mark has hit the perfect middleground, with figures that make sense yet aren't super skinny either. I really don't want another fiddly set of infantry to work on
I love the level of detail they pack onto their basic infantry. My DFG Stormtroopers will be everything above Light armour. This means I'll have a field day using Mark's goodies. Once they get here.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I love the level of detail they pack onto their basic infantry. My DFG Stormtroopers will be everything above Light armour. This means I'll have a field day using Mark's goodies. Once they get here.
Seriously, who uses ships anymore?
also considering China's economy is basically based on its exports to the US I find it hard to believe they havent invited some sort of transport device that allows them to get goods into the country in the blink of an eye
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I love the level of detail they pack onto their basic infantry. My DFG Stormtroopers will be everything above Light armour. This means I'll have a field day using Mark's goodies. Once they get here.
Seriously, who uses ships anymore?
Everyone who has ever called for an air freight quote.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I love the level of detail they pack onto their basic infantry. My DFG Stormtroopers will be everything above Light armour. This means I'll have a field day using Mark's goodies. Once they get here.
Seriously, who uses ships anymore?
Everyone who has ever called for an air freight quote.
QFT! Air shipping for anything more then a single cracker is insane. If you're moving bulk freight, you get ships.
Wargames Factory replied to me on a Facebook post and said they hope to have the Dreamforge stuff available to show and possibly buy during the Williamsburg Muster (weekend of Feb 2) so I'm guessing if they have product by then, the KS backers will have their stuff well before then too!
Kepora wrote: So...no one's given a direct answer. -How much is the Leviathan going to cost-?
Nobody really knows yet. Just like the stormtroopers and other models, we know how much they were for the kickstarter, and can only assume they will cost more at retail (as we got our minis at a pretty good discount for backing the program).
By the way, if anything happens to that ship heading over here Scarletsquig, I will hunt you down
Bolognesus wrote: They were $89.
Expect no more than $150 msrp which will get the usual discounts
Exactly. Take Thewarstore.com for example (they carry Wargames Factory), they typically run at around a 20% discount...so the $150 would drop to around $120. Its not too hard to find 20-25% if you shop around. I personally use The WarStore for any of my non Ebay purchasing....top notch service and pretty quick shipping.
I'm going to be honest. I really don't care if retails preorders are put up before backer copies ship or not. I didn't fund this to get my toys before everyone else. I did it because I believe in the project and want to see it succeed.
Breotan wrote: I'm going to be honest. I really don't care if retails preorders are put up before backer copies ship or not. I didn't fund this to get my toys before everyone else. I did it because I believe in the project and want to see it succeed.
Qft, but none of the stores around me carry wgf, so I'd like to get mine and assemble it and see if they will display them just to get more people involved. Would love to see the next kickstarter explode with hundreds of new backers. I'm sure mark would like it too.
"Just a heads up, the shipment left China last week (Dec 29th) to start its sea voyage, so we are still on track for it landing in Utah the last week of January.
We filled a 40 foot container just for the KS backs there was another shipment that left shortly after for the retailers stock.
Fingers crossed, this will be a common occurrence :-P
Mark has certainly been quite surprising over the years, but usually in good ways.
(along with being beautiful models, of course).
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