AlexHolker wrote: What I wanted was not an ogre, but an Amazon. Something more like this.
So... the rest of the TGG range?
Anyone else disappointed with Yoko? I guess I should count myself lucky to take her off my list, since I now want most of the IE heroines. Wasn't planning on getting Heleria or Arthemisia, for instance, but they turned out really awesome. And Mortaria Noctis... Combined Army Speculo-Killer, much?
But it looks like the campaign's back on track now. I hope they don't lose anymore momentum!
We've seen that the normal and heroic models are good fits for counts as in 40k.
Do we have any idea what the final height on the models that look like they'll be unusual sized will be? I'm thinking specifically of the Priestess (though Kiki will surely have some extra height). But with the tentacle boosters and arms, are we talking "techmarine tall," "MC tall," or something in between?
If by back on track you mean, they had 1 new backer, and the majority of the movement came from people retooling their pledges, then it is definitely back on track.
I think it is another light blip until the release of the troopers tommorrow and a larger increase in backers and pledging. (Hopefully.)
My list of winner reveals, loser reveals, and those that really are just... reveals.
The Ones Who have no Feels (They are just as the silhouettte depicted)-
Shashenka, Foxy, and Heleria just seem average to some of the already revealed, and now openly revealed others to compare to. They aren't bad, but they aren't good, but unlike the list below, they aren't so different from the silhouette's appeal to make them unimpressive or underwhelming.
The Unimpressive (and the Sadly Underwhelming)-
Noctis is great, from the neck down. The head just... doesn't fit well with the body. A grotesque dichotomy. Baba looks a bit like I expected, and also, a bit less. She just doesn't have the ummph like I was expecting, nor does Lord Undetailed Vampire.
The Hopeful (and the Amazing)-
Yoko is one I hope the art isn't entirely accurate on. The legs seem... off. Otherwise, she is pretty awesome. Snow Ivanka is better than I actually imagined, taking her from a maybe on my list to mandatory. Rosenkrantz, even though I am not buying IE other than necropriestess, this mini is one I would definitely buy otherwise. It just has this feel to it. Yes, she is a monster, but she is an awesome monster. The Great Embalmer is another great mini for the IE, but because I am not getting them, I will be passing up. But the way it just turned out is better than the silhouette ever predicted. I am going to put Kiki here, even though I never once, nor ever wanted or want to get her as a mini. Just not my style for my army, and the details will be out of place for the army I am crafting. That doesn't mean she isn't an amazingly (almost too much detailed,) concept art piece. If even a third of the details transfer over, she will be an amazing mini for those purchasing her, and have a life of her own.
I'm definitely excited about Yoko and Ivanka. Kiki's pretty sweet, and Alexsandr isn't bad (although not as cool as I had built him up in my mind).
I really like Shashenka, though. The long, delicate curtains of hair (like you see on her and Blondie) are something you don't see on too many models, and are something I really hope will carry through well in the sculpts.
Foxy is really the only one who didn't live up to my expectations. I expected something really cool, and while she isn't bad, she also isn't spectacular.
Oh, I did forget Kiki on my list! Argh! Will endeavor to place her in a spot later though. Want to look at her for a bit neutrally (since I was never going to get her as a mini.)
She was one of the best reveals for me.. absolutely excellent take on a female Ogre, much better than the horrific 'male Ogre with saggy breasts' GW pulled out for Blood Bowl, or the just a little too boyish Maneater.
I'd pay for a whole unit if it was of a similar design.
I can't fully visualise it properly from the art. I know and trust that they can do beautiful, and I know that they can do ugly monsters, but this seems a bit different, and I won't know if I like it aesthetically until I see a render or a model. With (most of) the regular models, I have enough trust to know that they should look ace, but there's a few concept art pieces there - this amongst them - which need a bit more convincing.
Well I just upped my pledge from lieutenant to captain, based on the concepts they've revealed (but I am pledging for my other half as well as myself). There's still a bit of value left in the pledge, that will probably go to the bikes/mechas once they're revealed. That, or I'll drop it on finish day.
Alright, since they finally made it so I can get a troop box at the $15 level (and confirmed that the shipping is free at that level), I am in. These will be great for a Mutants & Death Ray Guns squad.
So here are all the Freebies to date now included in all pledges from LIEUTENANT BOX and above.
$430,000 Stretch Goal
Also, you may recall in our next stretch goal at $430,000 (we're almost there...), 3 Heroines will be unlocked:
Ilsa Wolfenstein, Commander-in-Chief of the Iron Empire army.
As mentioned earlier, she is a one-of-a-kind leader, as she will not wait behind the lines but will jump right into the fray, seemingly invulnerable. She had her giant claws specially made for her so that she could engage in melee with the terrible Kurganova were-creatures.
Lieutenant Drakkan of the Iron Storm Heavy Troopers.
And Volga Potemkine (with a silent 'e' at the end), who carries the Kurganova army banner.
As mentioned earlier, Volga Potemkine is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek name, as it refers, in a very obvious fashion, to the battle of Stalingrad in which the Soviet Union fought the Nazis and to the movie Battleship Potemkin which tells the story of the mutiny of its crew against their tzarist officers, and which has been called one of the greatest propaganda movie ever.
And saving the best for last...
Just like you, we want this Kickstarter to be as successful as possible, and just like you, we want the maximum number of minis to come to life.
Therefore, get ready!
Once the $430,000 Stretch Goal described above is achieved, we will start to AUTOMATICALLY UNLOCK between 1 and 3 references EVERY DAY!
Barzam wrote: Alright, since they finally made it so I can get a troop box at the $15 level (and confirmed that the shipping is free at that level), I am in. These will be great for a Mutants & Death Ray Guns squad.
If that's the case I might as well grab a box myself. Now comes the inevitable fretting over which one to get!
I'm surprised you aren't going to have those ladies seeing action in the Deadzones.
Just like you, we want this Kickstarter to be as successful as possible, and just like you, we want the maximum number of minis to come to life.
Therefore, get ready!
Once the $430,000 Stretch Goal described above is achieved, we will start to AUTOMATICALLY UNLOCK between 1 and 3 references EVERY DAY!
So stay tuned! The fun ain't over ;-)
This, in my eyes, is probably the biggest update since the swap update when it comes to boosting the campaign. Dispels any worries about X or Y not being unlocked unless we reach the $710k mark. If they handle the reveals properly then it should keep people's attention focused on the KS and keep the pledges coming in. The only thing we need to see now are more details (and renders/prints) of the trooper boxes and their intended contents.
Oh, they'll probably join my Bauhaus guys in the Deadzone, don't you worry about that.
I'm kind of surprised they haven't revealed any of the Kurganova were-beasts yet. They mention them numerous times in their fluff, but we haven't seen any yet that I know of.
Barzam wrote: Alright, since they finally made it so I can get a troop box at the $15 level (and confirmed that the shipping is free at that level), I am in. These will be great for a Mutants & Death Ray Guns squad.
Barzam wrote: Alright, since they finally made it so I can get a troop box at the $15 level (and confirmed that the shipping is free at that level), I am in. These will be great for a Mutants & Death Ray Guns squad.
When and where did they mention this bit of news?
Right on the front page. They have a breakdown of what you can get at all levels. It says right on it that you pledge $15 and can choose to get either A)a Heroine, B)a support unit, or C)a troop box. If you want a $20 item, just add an extra $5. right below it, with bullet points is says that the $15 pledge has free shipping for whatever item you choose, plus that it comes with the TGG digital artbook.
Jimsolo wrote:The unlocks that will begin happening automatically (as per update #26): Does that mean that the CONCEPT art is unlocked (and we can just see it) or that the minis themselves will be unlocked, as in, able to be added to our orders?
Loving the Snow Version of Ivanka, by the way!
Loud'n Raging wrote:@Jimsolo: The minis themselves will be unlocked, as in, able to be added to your pledge.
Barzam wrote: Alright, since they finally made it so I can get a troop box at the $15 level (and confirmed that the shipping is free at that level), I am in. These will be great for a Mutants & Death Ray Guns squad.
When and where did they mention this bit of news?
Right on the front page. They have a breakdown of what you can get at all levels. It says right on it that you pledge $15 and can choose to get either A)a Heroine, B)a support unit, or C)a troop box. If you want a $20 item, just add an extra $5. right below it, with bullet points is says that the $15 pledge has free shipping for whatever item you choose, plus that it comes with the TGG digital artbook.
Ah, nice, must've missed it the first few time round, thanks for pointing it out to me! Derp!
Well if you nominate a time (GMT) I'll drop it and you can refresh like mad. I'll be at my desk for the next 3 hours or so (but in the next half hour is probably easiest)
Though going by the numbers (47 taken, etc) I'm not sure if they'll actually open up.
After checking up on Barzam's info, what he said seems to be correct.
It states at the $15 pledge you can get either one heroine, one troop, or one support box. PLUS free shipping for one heroine, one troop box, or one support box.
Does a heavy weapon command group count as one trooper box as long as I add the extra 5 bucks then?
I'd be happy having at least the Kurganova Heavy Weapon Command group.
After realizing I'm sitting on a gold mine of old video games, if they end up having a pledge manager that we can add funds too, I may just end up with an army or three.
Herzlos wrote: I think I'm going to drop my EB $154 Lieutenant bid, if anyone wants to arrange to get it.
I'll scoop these things up at retail, but can't justify such a big pre-order at the moment.
I'll just settle for one of the $15 pledges
It looks like the Early Bird pledges are one-use-only, after I dropped it the number of pledges dropped without any becoming available. Definitely worth noting for those that are considering hopping around between pledges.
I wonder if that's a bug or a configuration they've set?
Edit: The EB did go back into circulation, it was just snapped up before I reloaded the main page
People have been getting them before yesterday, so it potentially sounds like a change. I've seen two lots of folks do a swap previously for example.
If RH has changed something, they need to alert folks, as they could end up with two very unhappy people if those folks try to swap and both loose their early birds.
Hopefully its just a bug mind.
Regarding the update, good news, hopefully we'll finally get to see something for the question marks soon as well.
Herzlos wrote: I think I'm going to drop my EB $154 Lieutenant bid, if anyone wants to arrange to get it.
I'll scoop these things up at retail, but can't justify such a big pre-order at the moment.
I'll just settle for one of the $15 pledges
It looks like the Early Bird pledges are one-use-only, after I dropped it the number of pledges dropped without any becoming available. Definitely worth noting for those that are considering hopping around between pledges.
I wonder if that's a bug or a configuration they've set?
No, it worked. Managed to get it. Thanks Herzlos, appreciated.
Alpharius wrote: So unlocks are now time based and not funding level based?
Probably a good idea at this point, and this should keep things moving!
Unfortunately, trying to play the game and shift the goalposts early on has cost them, rather badly. This is the only real option they have at this stage to stop what was an almost-guaranteed haemorrhaging of pledges. Still, gating it beyond another unlock is foolish, though. Especially when it took several days to get past unlocking a freebie... They probably need to ramp up on the freebies next.
Yeah, or at the very least give us a list of freebies to work at, say the next $50k worth. Though they've not said what impact this has on the freebies yet.
I think it will make very little difference which ever way they did it
Folk who will back late (and are aware of the campaign) are not going to suddenly going to go 'wow, now I have to pledge'
Folk who backed early are probably still sitting on a pledge that's larger than they need (waiting to see renders before finalising their choices). Since you can freely re-organise what you spend your pledge money on there is no need to add more cash
New backers coming in before the last day or two with typically be those who have just noticed the KS
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: New backers coming in before the last day or two with typically be those who have just noticed the KS
I think a lot of people who've missed EB slots will wait til the last minute to decide if they are going to pledge or not and at what level. It doesn't seem well understood that the pledge isn't committed to or the money taken until the clock runs out.
Folk who will back late (and are aware of the campaign) are not going to suddenly going to go 'wow, now I have to pledge'
Folk who backed early are probably still sitting on a pledge that's larger than they need (waiting to see renders before finalising their choices). Since you can freely re-organise what you spend your pledge money on there is no need to add more cash
I agree, but what I think it does do, is it helps to prevent people who have already pledged from pulling their pledges last minute because that mecha or that sniper squad didn't get unlocked. For example, I've pledged quite early and planned everything that I wanted to buy, but if those models were never unlocked, I might have seriously reduced my pledge, now it seems like most models are going to be unlocked. Already upped my pledge a bit off the back of those shadow reveals the other day.
If this is going to be automatic unlocks based on the time... maybe they can give us all the concept artwork now so we can lock down our pledge amounts once and for all?
I don't think some people like the idea of having their funds locked into a project before they have a full view of the offering. It might be that. Although, having cancelled a pledge on projects before (I try to emulate Azazelx as much as possible ) nothing is easier.
I agree, but what I think it does do, is it helps to prevent people who have already pledged from pulling their pledges last minute because that mecha or that sniper squad didn't get unlocked. For example, I've pledged quite early and planned everything that I wanted to buy, but if those models were never unlocked, I might have seriously reduced my pledge, now it seems like most models are going to be unlocked. Already upped my pledge a bit off the back of those shadow reveals the other day.
Absolutely correct. At the previous non-rate of unlocks, they were going to start seeing a whole lot of days where people reduced their pledges, getting worse in the last couple.
Unfortunately, this also means that there will be no further unlocks than already shown. :/ If the stretch levels would have been kept to $5k and we would reach above $750k, there would have been a chance of RH doing more stretch goals and new concepts/sculpts to be unlocked, etc. Now that will most likely not happen. :/
grefven wrote: Unfortunately, this also means that there will be no further unlocks than already shown. :/ If the stretch levels would have been kept to $5k and we would reach above $750k, there would have been a chance of RH doing more stretch goals and new concepts/sculpts to be unlocked, etc. Now that will most likely not happen. :/
Whilst it does make this situation unlikely it's better to do this than risk not unlocking everything and having people pull out at the last minute. There's nothing to stop RH from throwing new stuff in, either if they decide to unlock everything over the next 9 days and then throw a few new things in at the last push as stretch goals again or for milestones such as $500k.
You know the old saying about you only die when you paint all your mini's? Having been waiting for RH mini's right from the beginning I think the motto needs changing to "you only die when you actually recieve all your KS minis".
I just cannot see them getting all this done and mailed in anywhere near their deadline.
Reaper who have an excellent organization ended up being 4 months late (what am I going to do with those when they arrive in 3 days time!!!!) and I just cannot see RH being anywhere near as talented as Reaper in organizing things.
I might hop back in on the $15 level and add a few bucks for either a troop unit, the tech priestess lady, or a mech once they unlock the others. I don't mind throwing a few bucks to them for what are hopefully stellar mini's.
I still don't like that they tried to play their consumer base at the beginning of the campaign but not enough to maybe not throw a little cash at them.
fullheadofhair wrote: You know the old saying about you only die when you paint all your mini's? Having been waiting for RH mini's right from the beginning I think the motto needs changing to "you only die when you actually recieve all your KS minis".
I think that will turn out to be the other way around - you'll never receive all your KS minis before you die...
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Hulksmash wrote: I might hop back in on the $15 level and add a few bucks for either a troop unit, the tech priestess lady, or a mech once they unlock the others. I don't mind throwing a few bucks to them for what are hopefully stellar mini's.
I still don't like that they tried to play their consumer base at the beginning of the campaign but not enough to maybe not throw a little cash at them.
Well, that's bitten them in the arse now, hasn't it? Hopefully they learn something from it for next time.
It certainly bit them in the butt for around $135 from me since I'm now treating this like I did the Avatars of War campaign and investing in a single figure due to trust issues.
Hulksmash wrote: It certainly bit them in the butt for around $135 from me since I'm now treating this like I did the Avatars of War campaign and investing in a single figure due to trust issues.
Considering your posts, I am surprised that you ever had any trust
fullheadofhair wrote: You know the old saying about you only die when you paint all your mini's? Having been waiting for RH mini's right from the beginning I think the motto needs changing to "you only die when you actually recieve all your KS minis".
Still mystified as to what people think they did that was so shady. *shrug* People can think whatever they want, of course, trust being a subjective emotion, but it hardly seems like Raging Heroes got bit in the butt at all. If they've got any oral marks, nearly half a million bucks seems to suggest that they're love bites.
Hulksmash wrote: It certainly bit them in the butt for around $135 from me since I'm now treating this like I did the Avatars of War campaign and investing in a single figure due to trust issues.
Considering your posts, I am surprised that you ever had any trust
Putting a winky face at the end of it doesn't make it less of a dig, you know that right?
That and the fact that objective people that aren't in love with the product or producers can see they had issues from the get go including trying to play games during the intial spike. The fact that the first three individual models were 20k each and now we're getting them unlocked for free shows it pretty clearly too. Add in that looking at their organization from the same stand point could lead you to the conclusion that their estimated time to completion and production is a pipe dream (which I'll be happily surprised if it comes true).
I pledge early bird because I liked the look of the models. I didn't know anything about Raging Heroes outside of a few random figures before that. They showed me, as my first experience with their company, that they couldn't handle a kickstarter they had been planning for 6 months. They then proceeded to perform in a manner initially that would have gotten GW lynched.
Now, they have been successful as far as their funding goes. They may make an excellent product. But tell me, as a first time customer of a company you know nothing about, would you have been happy with this as your first experience?
I realize people have different views and expectations. And some are happy as things stand and that's fine. But first impressions for me matter greatly. I still like their product enough to test the waters with a $15 purchase (or more depending on what I want) but as a consumer they have a long way to go to make up for the poor first impression.
Try to keep the digs at people to a minimum. We know you love the product and company pretty much regardless but allow other people their opinion without needleling them.
That and the fact that objective people that aren't in love with the product or producers can see they had issues from the get go including trying to play games during the intial spike. The fact that the first three individual models were 20k each and now we're getting them unlocked for free shows it pretty clearly too. Add in that looking at their organization from the same stand point could lead you to the conclusion that their estimated time to completion and production is a pipe dream (which I'll be happily surprised if it comes true).
I pledge early bird because I liked the look of the models. I didn't know anything about Raging Heroes outside of a few random figures before that. They showed me, as my first experience with their company, that they couldn't handle a kickstarter they had been planning for 6 months. They then proceeded to perform in a manner initially that would have gotten GW lynched.
Now, they have been successful as far as their funding goes. They may make an excellent product. But tell me, as a first time customer of a company you know nothing about, would you have been happy with this as your first experience?
I realize people have different views and expectations. And some are happy as things stand and that's fine. But first impressions for me matter greatly. I still like their product enough to test the waters with a $15 purchase (or more depending on what I want) but as a consumer they have a long way to go to make up for the poor first impression.
This is my first experience giving them money too, and I've been nothing but pleased. I'm a little unclear (still) on what they did that you find so untrustworthy. I assume it's the moving of the stretch goals?
There were a few wink-wink-nudge-nudge posts in the early days of the KS that implied pretty clearly that all the unlocks would be done one way or another, so I understood, from the get-go, that rather than being some combination of carrot-and-stick to get us to give them more money, the 'unlocks' were forgone conclusions that were just to be revealed gradually. The change to free-unlocks-per-day tends to support that much more than it does a picture of some shysty fly-by-night operation.
They haven't been blowing up my inbox with pointless updates, either, which I appreciate. The freebies are nice, something I can find a use for, and the amount of money I'm saving by pledging to the KS rather than waiting for retail is very up-front. I haven't had any trouble understanding it.
I understand that first impressions matter, and I guess I'm just confused as to how we can be getting such vastly differing impressions from the same situation. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but is there some kind of additional information I'm lacking? I'm not attacking you, I'm just puzzled.
I dunno, I kind of like having flurries of updates. It shows me that the creators are active and involved, especially if they're more than just the "HEY! GIVE US MORE MONEY FOR THESE NEW THINGS!" type updates I seem to get far too often.
Dungeon Roll was a great one in this regard- the project designer was totally transparent, talking about production costs and values, art creation, backer input... he was really active with his community.
Things may have started rocky here but having things start getting unlocked more quickly is probably a good idea.
After all some of those new unlocks might drag my wallet out again once more.
We had promised you today an image of the test 3D print we did for a Kurganova Shock Troops Heavy Trooper. However, we are waiting for other minis to come in to be able to make comparison shots. But we did not get them today, they are arriving tomorrow. And because we want to make this particular update chock full of info, we decided to wait so that all the info can be together. But please don't worry, all is working out just fine, and you'll get to see all the details tomorrow We passed $430,000!
As promised in our previous update, we are now starting to unlock other miniatures every day, whatever happens number-wise.
And so, with this Update, we unlock Lady Sigrith, Great Embalmer of the Iron Empire. (Text continues below image)
Lady Sigrith ranks at the top of the Iron Empire aristocracy and is probably one of the most versed into the Aegyptian lore and mysteries. She is in charge of many funeral and necromantic tasks in the Iron Empire.
Lady Sigrith supervises the proper Embalming and Restoration of her dead compatriots, where Restoration is the process to bring a dead person back from death as a fully functioning Undead. Restoration is complex, long and costly, and so, not everybody can afford it.
Lady Sigrith is also in charge of scavenging enemy corpses on the battlefield and bringing them back to life as cyber-zombies, who will then complement the Iron Empire rank-and-file or act as bodyguards for high-ranking personalities.
The cyber-zombies are created through a much cruder process than the one used on the Iron Empire deceased citizens. And as much as some of the best 'Restored' Iron Empire citizens can pass for actual living humans, no such confusion could ever exist with the cyber-zombies, who look like disarticulated morbid puppets.
During battle, Lady Sigrith uses the different aspects of her necromantic powers to instantly revive some of the deceased before their soul has escaped, as well as reanimate enemy corpses for canon fodder, and more...
Do tell: what do you think you might do with this character?
I know it's going to mean I have to take extra special care not to break them, but I love the models that have such delicate details on them (the unfurled scroll on lady Sigrith, the hair on Shashenka and Blondie). It's really going to make the minis stand out, I think.
For me, their updates are still far too sporadic and lacking in real content. It took them far too long to get the last update published after we crossed the $430k mark. Even if they were hoping to get the extra figures delivered, given how long it took for them to get photos up of those received on Friday I doubt they'd have actually got the intended update out of the door.
Whilst the update does show us the extra figure they've unlocked, and confirm the other three are also unlocked, it doesn't answer a number of the questions that the previous update raised. Such as the freebie SGs. There's also other questions that have been raised here / in general comments / in response to updates that they could have addressed.
fullheadofhair wrote: You know the old saying about you only die when you paint all your mini's? Having been waiting for RH mini's right from the beginning I think the motto needs changing to "you only die when you actually recieve all your KS minis".
I just cannot see them getting all this done and mailed in anywhere near their deadline.
Reaper who have an excellent organization ended up being 4 months late (what am I going to do with those when they arrive in 3 days time!!!!) and I just cannot see RH being anywhere near as talented as Reaper in organizing things.
Reaper were subject to a lot of logistical issues (they had to buy new warehousing space for the stuff) and got 17,774 backers, many of whom are receiving upwards of 200 miniatures each. They were also stuck waiting on the miniatures to come from a Chinese 3rd party (hence the delays were mostly with shipping).
Raging Heroes are going to be dealing with a much smaller scale campaign; maybe a few thousand backers getting maybe dozens of miniatures that are still being sent to external casting I believe, but I think it's also locally (less shipping/customs issues). Whilst RH aren't known for being prompt, I don't think that Reaper suffering a 4 month delay will necessarily mean much for RH, who are also trying to do their best to get minis to backers quickly with the waves and Drops.
That and the fact that objective people that aren't in love with the product or producers can see they had issues from the get go including trying to play games during the intial spike. The fact that the first three individual models were 20k each and now we're getting them unlocked for free shows it pretty clearly too. Add in that looking at their organization from the same stand point could lead you to the conclusion that their estimated time to completion and production is a pipe dream (which I'll be happily surprised if it comes true).
I don't think it's playing games; the aim of stretch goals is to try and encourage additional pledging and to keep the project interesting. And it generally seems to work; campaigns (like Gates Of Antares) that ask for what they were expecting up front with no stretch goals tend to faulter, whereas campaigns that start with a low figure and use stretch goals to bring it up tend to do better.
They've always been fairly clear that the stuff mentioned will be unlocked one way or another, but had they shown it all on launch there'd have been nothing to talk about for the last 2 weeks.
shamikebab wrote: They've done 5 updates in 3 days, how is that sporadic?
Some people just can't be pleased, I guess.
It's not about the number of updates it's about the timing of them. They posted update 26 at 06:48 French time and then we didn't see anything again until 01:08 this morning. That's despite crossing the $430k threshold that they'd set and a number of questions being raised by the previous update. The timing of the updates is also going to be subjective, based on the time zone that you're in. Being in the UK makes the timing of the updates much more noticeable, there's only been 3 updates in 3 days here.
I think what several of us are somewhat getting at is if they'd stuck to smaller stretch unlocks - as they had initially, such as $5k or $10k, - with several lined up in advance, the campaign would feel much more like they were setting them up and we were knocking them over - so there would have been much more of a feeling of constant forward momentum, rather than the "oh gak, we better unlock these for free before people pull their pledges!" feeling that we have now.
shamikebab wrote: They've done 5 updates in 3 days, how is that sporadic?
Some people just can't be pleased, I guess.
It's not about the number of updates it's about the timing of them. They posted update 26 at 06:48 French time and then we didn't see anything again until 01:08 this morning. That's despite crossing the $430k threshold that they'd set and a number of questions being raised by the previous update. The timing of the updates is also going to be subjective, based on the time zone that you're in. Being in the UK makes the timing of the updates much more noticeable, there's only been 3 updates in 3 days here.
Well we're on the 22nd day of the campaign and we've had 27 updates. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I can live without updates, I mean, I have a dog and some friends.
IMHO the important thing is that before the end of the KS they will somehow unolck everything (also the resin stuff, I hope), that they keep their timing for the shipping and that the quality for all the models will be (as usal for this company) great. For the important things I just naively trust them (and cross fingers).
Sergio Tulkas wrote: I can live without updates, I mean, I have a dog and some friends.
IMHO the important thing is that before the end of the KS they will somehow unolck everything (also the resin stuff, I hope), that they keep their timing for the shipping and that the quality for all the models will be (as usal for this company) great. For the important things I just naively trust them (and cross fingers).
They've already pretty much told us that they're going to unlock everything one way or another. I wouldn't worry too much.
A lot of people seem to be worried that not everything will be unlocked but it seems pretty clear what has happened here from where I am sitting. We blew through all the pre planned stretch goals in 1 day so they had to push them back a little to keep things interesting. Having everything unlocked day 1 and no updates would be worse than what we have now.
I'm positive they have every intention of making sure everything is unlocked, they have just stumbled on the execution there.
Azazelx wrote: I think what several of us are somewhat getting at is if they'd stuck to smaller stretch unlocks - as they had initially, such as $5k or $10k, - with several lined up in advance, the campaign would feel much more like they were setting them up and we were knocking them over - so there would have been much more of a feeling of constant forward momentum, rather than the "oh gak, we better unlock these for free before people pull their pledges!" feeling that we have now.
Kroothawk wrote: BTW, in one of the unnoticed updates, Raging Heroes assured us, that they have no doubts that all planned miniatures will be unlocked at the end of the kickstarter.
Jimsolo wrote:They've already pretty much told us that they're going to unlock everything one way or another. I wouldn't worry too much.
That's what I said 20 days ago, but people didn't believe me.
Kroothawk wrote: BTW, in one of the unnoticed updates, Raging Heroes assured us, that they have no doubts that all planned miniatures will be unlocked at the end of the kickstarter.
Jimsolo wrote:They've already pretty much told us that they're going to unlock everything one way or another. I wouldn't worry too much.
That's what I said 20 days ago, but people didn't believe me.
I believe in you, Kroothawk! I belieeeeeeve!
On the real, though, we've both been saying that from the get-go. I was a little concerned at first, but once I realized they were willing to treat the stretch goals as fluid, I chilled out pretty quick.
Too bad we most likely won't be seeing anything else though - given that we're probably at a 'fixed' unlock rate?
Not a big deal however, as what they've got planned looks great!
Sad though, as I was looking forward to seeing the sure to be announced mercenary Lieutenant F. Kay Hawke, Assassin/Standard Bearer, along with her mascot psyber-weasel The Solitaire.
Alpharius wrote: Too bad we most likely won't be seeing anything else though - given that we're probably at a 'fixed' unlock rate?)
Guess, we have to be satisfied with 150 individually sculpted miniatures then, many of them multipose.
Selective out of context quoting... for the loss.
Alpharius wrote:Too bad we most likely won't be seeing anything else though - given that we're probably at a 'fixed' unlock rate?
Not a big deal however, as what they've got planned looks great!
I keep wondering to myself why I keep opening this thread. It's wall to wall negativity. Then I see ol' snarky Kroothawk, and I know why. Thanks for being the one bright spark in this gloomy quagmire of a thread.
shamikebab wrote: They've done 5 updates in 3 days, how is that sporadic?
Because they didn't do 6 updates?
Who the hell knows. If there's something to whine about when a Kickstarter is involved, the fine folks here will find it.
Whining about the Kickstarter, whining about people whining about the Kickstarter, and whining about people whining about people whining about the Kickstarter. I don't know that it often goes more than three levels deep though. At that point it would probably more efficient to just write a bot to post to KS threads.
I'm curious about the bikes, but I wasn't a huge fan of the IE one so I'm not sure if I'll like the style of the others either. Similar boat with the mechs, but hey, the more miniatures I'm not enamored with the less I spend. The snipers I am absolutely looking forward to though. Blondie needs some friends to hang out with. Add in a little Dream House for the girls and I'll be all set to play Barbies.
Azazelx wrote: I think what several of us are somewhat getting at is if they'd stuck to smaller stretch unlocks - as they had initially, such as $5k or $10k, - with several lined up in advance, the campaign would feel much more like they were setting them up and we were knocking them over - so there would have been much more of a feeling of constant forward momentum, rather than the "oh gak, we better unlock these for free before people pull their pledges!" feeling that we have now.
Since we're quoting ourselves from a fortnight ago, something of mine;
Buzzsaw wrote: It's all an issue of expectations: is this a niche project, or a blockbuster?
Consider it like the box office of Star Trek: Into Darkness, where opening weekend it made $70 million, and this was considered disappointing. A disappointment because it failed to be as big a hit as the first Star Trek (reboot).
In my discursions in the previous days one will note my repeated mentions of the need for mega funding: but that need remains based in the $20-35k stretch goal unlocks and ~40 figures/units yet to reveal.
While we don't have no idea, we don't have the exact figure for what is the real minimum: the original SGs were $3-5k, which jibes with other campaigns that are doing metal figures puts them at.
Simply put, at $20k+ per SG, they need to make money by the barrel load every day to be a "success". At $3-5k they are already there.
It's fascinating really, the degree to which this project is either on easy street or in terrible trouble is entirely dependent on factors the creators control. Fascinating.
More-so then anything else, this identity crisis is behind the problems afflicting this campaign at the moment: is the campaign like Dreamforge's, where every scrap of funding is being invested into molds, design and tooling, or is it like Deadzone, where the creator's interest in establishing a customer base leads them to design a campaign with the widest maximum appeal with funds diverted from new product development to add value to the pledges?
It is becoming clear (although by no means indisputable) that TGG was originally designed to be of the first order: a campaign like Tre Manor's most recent, where everything would be allocated to developing, sculpting and tooling. Their initial stretch goal interval is entirely consistent with other campaigns that have put out individual and group sculpts, such as Bombshell Babes or JunkRobot's two or Tre's two.
Then the first day happened.
We can't know exactly how much RH's planned costs were, or what their overall business plan was intended to be, but one thing is clear: the sudden influx of cash caused them to throw their original plan out and try desperately to stretch their existing plan out. Which they did in the most hamhanded way possible.
Let's for a moment take up Kroot's talismanic "150 individual sculpts": assuming, arguendo, about $3k in real costs to design, tool and produce working numbers of a given sculpt, we see that the entire line would be done at $450k or so. Which means that basically everything is already paid for.
So, having achieved in a day the large majority of what they planned to do in a month, what to do?
Ala cart campaigns are typically rather scanty in terms of added value, since they tend to pay-as-they-go in terms of unlocking. Given that they have a lower level of added value, they do tend to have a higher level of discount.
Blockbuster campaigns tend to be organized around a singe "sweet spot" pledge level, which is constantly added to in terms of value.
TGG has, over time, evolved into a hybrid of the two paradigms it seems: it doesn't have the consistent discounts on everything that characterizes most ala cart campaigns, but it has a much more robust system to establish a sweet spot with distinct value added. That sweet spot, on the other hand, is a bit less robust then many others.
The question is, of course, does this hybrid combine the best, or the worst, aspects of the two campaign paradigms: ala cart campaigns may not make the money that blockbusters do, but they also are far less likely to overextend themselves, since they normally tie their funding level very closely to what is available. Blockbusters may make substantially more money, but they can easily outstrip the company's ability to meet their own goals. But of course, Blockbusters also expand the brand, because they make the deal such that people who ordinarily would not buy into an ala cart can't resist the sweet deal.
Ah, such delightful diversity of data. Fascinating.
I've not had any problems with the campaign so far, because my expectations were set to the following:
Will the concepts look good? So far, yes, practically all of the concepts I've liked, bar a few.
Do the renders follow the concept art? Mostly, and we've only seen a handful. RH has promised more to come, so we'll see. The troops were a bit wanting, but the heroine renders look ace.
Do the models look like the renders look like the concept? Yes, the side by side of One Shot Blondie proves Raging Heroes is completely capable of producing models from their renders (this was never a big doubt of mine).
Value. I consider the discount worth my money. $3-4 a figure is pretty good in my book for troops of a high quality. While $15 is stretching for a metal model, it's still manageable if it's the only one I'm going to get, and it's a quality model.
Apart from the early campaign rush (where I think RH were literally running around with their hair on fire), it's been fine in terms of pacing. It may have slowed in a few places, but I'm not expecting a Mantic or CMON-level campaign from RH.
I just want to see some cool miniatures make it to market.
I've not had any problems with the campaign so far, because my expectations were set to the following:
Will the concepts look good? So far, yes, practically all of the concepts I've liked, bar a few.
Do the renders follow the concept art? Mostly, and we've only seen a handful. RH has promised more to come, so we'll see. The troops were a bit wanting, but the heroine renders look ace.
Do the models look like the renders look like the concept? Yes, the side by side of One Shot Blondie proves Raging Heroes is completely capable of producing models from their renders (this was never a big doubt of mine).
Value. I consider the discount worth my money. $3-4 a figure is pretty good in my book for troops of a high quality. While $15 is stretching for a metal model, it's still manageable if it's the only one I'm going to get, and it's a quality model.
Apart from the early campaign rush (where I think RH were literally running around with their hair on fire), it's been fine in terms of pacing. It may have slowed in a few places, but I'm not expecting a Mantic or CMON-level campaign from RH.
I just want to see some cool miniatures make it to market.
~iPaint
That's where I am. I'm helping a boutique shop set up, and I'm willing to pay premium for attractive sculpts. Models like One-Shot Blondie up the ante to other companies. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of her on C'mon.
The first motorbike for the Jailbirds Division is now unlocked.
Most of the Jailbirds' equipment is scavenged from the battlefield or is looted from during raids on industrial sites. However when it comes to bikes, the Jailbirds trust no one but themselves! In time, they have developed their very own models, which tend to be pretty amazing machines on the battlefield...
Well, I like the JB concept better than the IE. The forward leaning pose looks a lot more active to me; I look at the IE and I think about being stuck behind a parade of these guys revving their engines. The lack of a ready game use for the model will limit the appeal of it, but I could see buying one just to look badass... it's a better value than most of the $15 Heroines, if nothing else.
With regards to the bikes and artillery: personally (just my own opinion here), it seems like a waste to sculpt 3 completely different bikes and 3 different artillery pieces for each faction (so 18 kits total).
IMO, it would be much better to have a single Bike kit and a single Artillery kit for each faction with a bunch of options allowing different load-outs. So instead of a $20 kit with one bike, maybe a kit that can make 3 bikes with a variety of heads, torsos and weapons for, say, $50 retail.
Similarly the artillery could be made modular.
So instead of having to cast 3 different complete bikes per faction, cast one basic bike that is modified by different weapon loadouts and can accept different riders.
JWMarines wrote: Until there's a game for them, I can't come up with a use for the bikes... I don't think I can justify the cost for counts-as rough riders
I.....I don't know what I would use them for, but they are awesome. Maybe scout ally bike? Use one shot and some snipes as a troops, No wait. Eldar jet bike! Yes, one shot as the Eldar sniper dude and there you go! HQ and troop.
I am thinking of getting the lieutenant box and just converting them or doing the troops up in chaos colors and using them in a chaos cultist army. Iron empire looks like a cultist army waiting to happen
With regards to the bikes and artillery: personally (just my own opinion here), it seems like a waste to sculpt 3 completely different bikes and 3 different artillery pieces for each faction (so 18 kits total).
I can certainly see that working for the artillery boxes, based on the two per faction that we've already seen. Say a box with 3 frames with enough parts to have three of the same weapon if wanted, then the crew. Could still have the six different crew figures in there to keep the variety. Though I'd like it if they split it into two boxes, one for just the weapons and another for the crew. That way you can either get them as intended, or use the crew from one faction with weapons from another (JB crew and IE weapons for example) or even go out of range for weapons/crew depending on your chosen force/game.
For the bikes, its a little hard to agree at the moment. Certainly until we see more than one concept per faction. For all we know at the moment they might be vastly different and not suit the upgrade sprue idea.
We are focusing on the unlocks now. There will be more Stretch Goals for Freebies and Free Upgrades later... Add-ons are also planned... And details of weaponry etc. is forthcoming... You are in our hourly thoughts and we won't let you down!
From the comments section. Looks like we'll see the other freebies at some point before the end of the KS.
Kroothawk wrote: BTW, in one of the unnoticed updates, Raging Heroes assured us, that they have no doubts that all planned miniatures will be unlocked at the end of the kickstarter.
Jimsolo wrote:They've already pretty much told us that they're going to unlock everything one way or another. I wouldn't worry too much.
That's what I said 20 days ago, but people didn't believe me.
Makes you wonder why they bothered to have "stretch" goals at all, in a way if you want to go down that route.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I keep wondering to myself why I keep opening this thread. It's wall to wall negativity.
I kinda do too, since you seem to post in here every two days complaining about the negativity. It's not terribly different to most other KS threads. Well, except in this one, Kroot is the cheerleader rather than spending all his time pissing on Mantic.
I kinda do too, since you seem to post in here every two days complaining about the negativity. It's not terribly different to most other KS threads. Well, except in this one, Kroot is the cheerleader rather than spending all his time pissing on Mantic.
Well, to be fair, Mantic's sculpts are somewhat less than stellar.
RoninXiC wrote:40k imperial guard "rough riders" or whatever they're called are pretty rubish... right?
JWMarines wrote:Until there's a game for them, I can't come up with a use for the bikes... I don't think I can justify the cost for counts-as rough riders
I'm using mine for Space Marine Scout Bikers. Given their ability to take locator beacons, they're actually a valuable unit for Tau, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, or Vanilla Marines, providing that your list utilizes Deep Strikers.
The rider looks cool, but the motorcycle itself still looks like junk. It reminds me of the old G1 attempts at motorcycle Transformers, which were more often than not blocks with bits of motorcycle kibble stuck on. A proper motorcycle that looked like it could steer would also be smaller and thus cheaper to produce.
I'd just like to make a post here thanking the Heralds for their effort in go-betweening the communication between us on Dakka and RH, while also remaining objective and even-handed when the campaign makes both positive moves and mis-steps.
I'd also like to thank Kroot (via MajorTom) for keeping the OP updated, since from the moment they posted it was clear that RH wouldn't be able to do it while simultaneously trying to run a KS.
New Update! And I am officially in love with the shock trooper heavies.
Update #29 Before anything else, PLEASE keep in mind that this sculpt is still a work in progress, and that we did this 3D-print in order to better assess some of this Kurganova Heavy Trooper proportions and make the right changes where needed.
Here are some of our conclusions on this print.
First of all, one of the main concerns was that this trooper might be a bit too squat. As explained in our previous update on the One-Shot Blondie print, the 3D renders always appear more squat than the actual print itself.
And just as we thought, the 3D print is actually not too squat at all.
However, as some of you have already noted, the breasts do not work well the way they are. As we also mentioned in the same previous update, that is the reason we always let the sculpts rest for a while before coming back to rework the last details, because when you work for quite some time on a sculpt, your eye becomes accustomed to it and you miss some imperfections that, later on, will just jump at you. Such was the case here. However, we sent it to 3D-printing before the final revisions because we wanted to show you a prototype before the end of the Kickstarter. So, we will make the breasts smaller.
We will also give her a slightly wider chest and shoulders because we feel that we could accentuate a bit the “Heavy Troops” aspect in her silhouette.
Overall, you can see that when this miniature stands on the tabletop side-by-side with other Raging Heroes minis as well as nest to minis from other companies, this Trooper already blends quite nicely just the way it is now.
So, this means that with the additional touch-ups we have currently planned, we should achieve an even better integration and, at the same time, keep the Raging Heroes feel that you are telling us you want (yeah!!!).
In the images below, you'll see comparisons of the Kurganova Heavy Trooper 3D print next to minis from various companies.
You will also see an animated GIF that shows how the 3D-print came out and what changes we have planned.
Hell yes.
Edit: HAH! Finally got an update in! Victory! :p
and thanks Az, we appreciate it, we're happy to help, and to street team for RH, but I'm just as aggravated/cautious about my cash as the rest of you!
Alyanumbers wrote: I don't want to drag the thread back into the argument over proportions, but... is it me or are Mortaria Noctis' legs way too long?
somewheresomehow wrote: I can see it, but I think it comes from the uniform more than actual body proportions.
Plug/Gimp/Body suits of that style can visually affect height and weight perceptions of individuals.
So not really you, but kinda you. That face also does horrible things to the perspective as well.
It's also RH's house art style. Generally they use "supermodel" proportions for legs, with heroic scale breasts. It's generally something you either like or dislike.
Now that they've dropped the pretense of "we might not unlock everything", I wonder if the Heralds could ask them again for wave shipping information, please?
I must say that I am very close to completely satisfied with the look of things so far (bearing in mind I'm actually going for IE units, but still). Whatever qualms I have about the manner of running the campaign, the do appear to have an artist's pride in their work, which is an invaluable quality in such a project.
I'm still of the opinion that there's too much leg and not enough torso, especially for such an upright pose. Closer to 1/3/3 should be the near-ideal proportions with relation to head, torso, and legs.
The prints are closer to 1/2/3, which makes the model seem like it has no lower abdomen, just a (rather large still) chest. At 1/2/3, the hips are basically right below the lower ribs, cutting out the equivalent of about 4-6 inches (in scale) of musculature that makes up the lower abdomen. I don't think the solution is a wider chest, but rather a taller torso and slightly shorter legs.
I think if RH can achieve the above proportions, the models will fit in with the current Blood Vestals, the TGG Heroines, and all the while adhering to a more realistic human body proportion than the rather stunty GW models. They'll also seem less leggy, which I think would help a bit.
I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Also nothing is finalised I know they have mentioned bulking out the shoulder armour, but my concern is they might revert back to the taller miniature due to feedback.
To be honest I wish they would just make a final decision.
rayphoton wrote: I like the taller too....girls have longer legs...in my world at least
Well thats fair enough but myself I want something that will at least blend with the rest of my miniatures, however I wish they would make a final decision as to the proportions so I know whether to keep my backing or withdraw.
I'm still of the opinion that there's too much leg and not enough torso, especially for such an upright pose. Closer to 1/3/3 should be the near-ideal proportions with relation to head, torso, and legs.
The prints are closer to 1/2/3, which makes the model seem like it has no lower abdomen, just a (rather large still) chest. At 1/2/3, the hips are basically right below the lower ribs, cutting out the equivalent of about 4-6 inches (in scale) of musculature that makes up the lower abdomen. I don't think the solution is a wider chest, but rather a taller torso and slightly shorter legs.
I think if RH can achieve the above proportions, the models will fit in with the current Blood Vestals, the TGG Heroines, and all the while adhering to a more realistic human body proportion than the rather stunty GW models. They'll also seem less leggy, which I think would help a bit.
~iPaint
Yep, not a fan of the current proportions of the troops. On the plus side, now I won't have to increase my pledge in order to include any troops, and only need to pay for a few heroes.
I plan to use these models as IG veterans personally, and really like the shorter new versions. If they go back to leggy giants that tower over cadians or elysians, then I have plenty of other things I want to spend money on. I'm hoping the normal Kuro troops are scaled down to match the heavies.
lone dirty dog wrote: I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Well, if they go with the taller version, I have no use for these.
I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
lone dirty dog wrote: I just want to highlight that over on the Kickstarter comments section a lot of backers are saying they preferred the taller version, this makes we wonder what will happen now will they be altering the render again ?
Well, if they go with the taller version, I have no use for these.
Totally agree with you I know it is all down to personal preference.
Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway. And with GW's chokehold on the industry only shrinking, there is no need to stick with their outdated and ugly standards.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
Although we have different views as to the final look I do understand your concerns, I for one held of backing this kickstarter due to there previous releases not fitting my needs.
However once they released there early render with the intention of moving inline with other manufactures scales I jumped happily on board, however they seem to keep jumping from one scale to another with no real commitment.
They need to make a final decision and please some of the people but not all of them, I would rather know if I want to back or not be decisive or either way i will withdraw.
I think a lot of people are feeling the same way as to the scale issue, if they don't get it sorted soon I think people might withdraw due to concerns anyway.
Fafnir wrote: Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway.
Some of us actually like that aesthetic. As I've said, slightly heroic proportions look better on actual models.
But this is a matter of preference, and RH is a difficult situation. What ever they do, many people will not like it.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I on the other hand am more interested in the troops and a few heroes so I am quite worried on how these will turn out....
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I say keep her at the same level as the vestal, keep the same proportions the heroes do and do widen the torso and shrink the breasts.
I'm less concerned with the proportions as with the height. The tall giant leggy females are just too big next to GW and FW models.
Fafnir wrote: Really, we'll only stop expecting Fisher Price scale once people stop trying to force themselves to fit the GW standard and start to actually move away from it.
With GW not even supporting tournament events anymore, it's not even like forcing yourself to fit with the GW aesthetic is required, anyway.
Look you may like a particular style and look which is fine, but not everyone has the same taste therefore there is no right or wrong just demand.
GW are not the only ones to work in this scale and therefore I have a lot of miniatures in this scale.
On top of that I have no interest in gaming so is of no issue or concern, however I still have an understanding of other peoples needs.
So try looking at it as an overall issue rather than just one sided, you have a right to your opinion but it's not the only one.
All I am asking for is a final decision as to scale so people can make a realistic decision, if the miniatures are of no use fine but let me know.
Agreed but, their entire line is a "realistic" proportioned line with idealized proportions and around 32mm tall iirc.
The first two days of people jumped in with this in mind, not with 28mm heroic proportioned models.
If they change their line to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, if they change their proportions to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, more than 75% of their backing at this moment comes from people who expect them to deliver the same they used to do and not a GW compatible product.
If they compromise with the hope to potentially attract the "GW crowd" it will damage their reputation and integrity, it also showed how small the "GW crowd" interested in their product been compatible with GW is.
They should have taken a note from CB which clearly illustrated beyond doubt that doing your own thing is not only viable, but also profitable and yes if you do gorgeous models most people will buy them and use them in any game they like compatible or not.
On an off topic note, why would people care about scales in GW range, they are inconsistent and all over the place anyway from the original manufacturer and any model been non heroic scaled looks out of line by definition.
In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Agreed but, their entire line is a "realistic" proportioned line with idealized proportions and around 32mm tall iirc.
The first two days of people jumped in with this in mind, not with 28mm heroic proportioned models.
If they change their line to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, if they change their proportions to fit GW it will backfire to them badly, more than 75% of their backing at this moment comes from people who expect them to deliver the same they used to do and not a GW compatible product.
If they compromise with the hope to potentially attract the "GW crowd" it will damage their reputation and integrity, it also showed how small the "GW crowd" interested in their product been compatible with GW is.
They should have taken a note from CB which clearly illustrated beyond doubt that doing your own thing is not only viable, but also profitable and yes if you do gorgeous models most people will buy them and use them in any game they like compatible or not.
On an off topic note, why would people care about scales in GW range, they are inconsistent and all over the place anyway from the original manufacturer and any model been non heroic scaled looks out of line by definition.
Again, I personally don't care about the proportions nearly as much as the height of the models. The models look good, which is why I put money into my first kickstarter, but I am not going to buy them no matter how good they look if they tower over my Cadians and Elysians. I'm hoping RH goes with 28mm scale with the proportions they have now. The resized/smaller heavy trooper is why I am putting money into this, Not models that tower over even Marines.
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
No one's saying the models have to be taller. Just make the proportions look human. Infinity models are, by and large, around the same height as GW minis, but have much better proportions that don't look like they came from a Fisher Price Playset catalogue.
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
Why? the guard are as tall as space marines are.
Besides if they are done realistic they will look different whatever their height.
I'm 50-50 on it myself, I think I'd use them no matter which scale, but I hope they make a decision soon.
It's not something they can make afterwards, I'd see folks pulling pledges rather than risk the wrong scale, but they now are in the odd position that no matter which way they go, odds are they will loose some people.
Crimson wrote: In the old thread they promised that these would be compatible with GW minis. It was one of the biggest concerns.
Also, I'd guess that majority of people plan to use these as IG. Whether they care about scale I cannot say. Personally I do; it will just look weird if female soldiers are head taller than male soldiers.
No one's saying the models have to be taller. Just make the proportions look human. Infinity models are, by and large, around the same height as GW minis, but have much better proportions that don't look like they came from a Fisher Price Playset catalogue.
Taller is an issue as a lot of the backers have said this in the comments section on the Kickstarter, RH make great looking minis that goes without saying but they need to clarify the scale issue ( height and width ).
GW does have a varying scale issue which to be honest I have steered from as much as possible, but a lot of other smaller companies are producing in a heroic scale no matter how you look at it not just GW.
Now I myself assumed RH would have followed there traditional style which is why I had no interest in backing, however after I saw some renders (the 28 mm scale) I thought great I can use these and they are going to look great so I backed.
As to realistic proportions there early work never reflected that either, I have not seen many woman at all with legs up to there armpits so the 28 mm render felt more realistic than them.
I have faith that they'll get the proportions correct. They'll never be perfectly proportioned, but no miniatures are (nor are real people btw). Total faith in RH on this score. My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines. That is my only concern. I plan to use these minis for a mixed imperial guard army, haven't yet decided which range will make up the male portion (still haven't fully decided between ie and k's), so they will line up next to my Space Marines at some point. I'm not hugely concerned with the height as I don't think RH will make them giants but I would be disappointed if they were taller. This is just my POV, I know many others have no intention of using them for 40k. I do think there is a happy medium to be found. Still excited, still pretty happy. But a decision before the end of KS would be nice.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I'm 50-50 on it myself, I think I'd use them no matter which scale, but I hope they make a decision soon.
It's not something they can make afterwards, I'd see folks pulling pledges rather than risk the wrong scale, but they now are in the odd position that no matter which way they go, odds are they will loose some people.
This is what I am saying however they could end up loosing a lot more backers if they don't clarify rather than if they do, if the majority of the backers are after the traditional style (as stated earlier 70%) then fine go that way it would make economical sense.
All though I don't see that percentage myself or even how that was founded, but I am willing to loose out to the greater need.
However there is also the after Kickstarter market sales which to be honest is where most of the money will come from, once the larger gaming population see the miniatures that will decide the interest as to scale.
RH may have their hardcore backers which will bring the miniatures to the market and love they're early style, but will this reflect in the future market ?
alanmckenzie wrote: My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines.
That's GW's fault, not Raging Heroes'. Unless you expect everyone to move to 25mm scale, Space Marines will never be in scale with anything else, ever, until someone produces a truescale Space Marine plastic kit.
alanmckenzie wrote: My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines.
That's GW's fault, not Raging Heroes'. Unless you expect everyone to move to 25mm scale, Space Marines will never be in scale with anything else, ever, until someone produces a truescale Space Marine plastic kit.
If they tower over space marines, they tower over IG as well, making them look absurdly out of place. GW Space Marines vs GW guard is a GW scaling problem. Raging Heroes models being far taller than GW Space Marines and Guard is something RH can do something about easily. Keep the proportions, shrink the models down a tad, like in their animated gif. They are still taller, but not so badly that they are potentially useless to those of us who want to use them in GW armies.
Exactly Wes. Alex, it's no-ones fault, it's just how things are. I agree that space marines aren't scaled properly, few things are.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorWesJanson wrote: Keep the proportions, shrink the models down a tad, like in their animated gif. They are still taller, but not so badly that they are potentially useless to those of us who want to use them in GW armies.
...and are still very useful to those who don't want to use them as IG.
alanmckenzie wrote: My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines.
That's GW's fault, not Raging Heroes'. Unless you expect everyone to move to 25mm scale, Space Marines will never be in scale with anything else, ever, until someone produces a truescale Space Marine plastic kit.
alanmckenzie wrote: My only concern, as other share, is that they tower over space marines.
That's GW's fault, not Raging Heroes'. Unless you expect everyone to move to 25mm scale, Space Marines will never be in scale with anything else, ever, until someone produces a truescale Space Marine plastic kit.
Chapterhouse did. Then GW's lawyers came along.
So did Hit-The-Spot and got shut down, but that has no reference to this issue, this is down to RH as to what market it is interested in, but either way they need to give clarity to it.
Fafnir wrote: HTS's truescales were the same ones Chapterhouse sold, if I remember correctly.
But the sooner other companies stop trying to fit in with GW, the sooner they'll stop having to depend on them.
Yes, they were his but he also produced a set independently ( which were way better ), Why do you think it is just to fit with GW ? Other companies do heroic scale as well as GW you know.
Basically you don't like heroic scale or GW fine we get it, but this is not an argument over the scale itself but clarification as to what scale they are using.
If the come to a firm decision on size/scale of the troops then I suspect they'll loose 10-20% of their pledges from people to just can't live with either tall & leggy or GW style stumpies
The question is if the carry on dithering until the KS ends (which will also mean some pledges cancel) will their losses be more or less ?
My guess is less so expect them to carry on thinking about things until it's too late
(my personal vote would be tall leggy RH style for the lot, but as thins thread shows there are equally strong opinions in the other direction)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: If the come to a firm decision on size/scale of the troops then I suspect they'll loose 10-20% of their pledges from people to just can't live with either tall & leggy or GW style stumpies
The question is if the carry on dithering until the KS ends (which will also mean some pledges cancel) will their losses be more or less ?
My guess is less so expect them to carry on thinking about things until it's too late
(my personal vote would be tall leggy RH style for the lot, but as thins thread shows there are equally strong opinions in the other direction)
If they go with the tall design, or don't decide by the 5th or so, I'll probably bow out. Apocalypse is calling me.
I am actually quite satisfied with the planned rework. But, personally, the ideal for me would be 1/3/3.5 proportions at a height of about 28mm to the eye or so, allowing them to have their own correctly proportioned look while still blending height wise.
Honestly though, the area these WIPs need the most work is the head, the blank sunken cheeks and the engraved lines running from forehead down the back of the helmet bear almost no resemblance to the armoured face-mask and Russian tanker style helmet in the concept artwork. Not saying the current sculpt is bad... I just really liked that helmet design in the concept art.
Also, glad they've got plans to reduce the breast size to somewhere within the realm of sanity.
PsychoticStorm wrote: That is the great debate and no, I refuse to acknowledge the old Napoleonics "measure to eye" standard.
For me a model is from feet to top of head.
You can refuse to accept it, but that's what people usually mean when they say 28mm miniature.
No and this is why the debate goes on for so much time, most of the new companies measure from toe to head and essentially assign scale, old companies just assign from toe to eyes that's why many "to eyes" measured figures are so inconsistent.
PsychoticStorm wrote: That is the great debate and no, I refuse to acknowledge the old Napoleonics "measure to eye" standard.
For me a model is from feet to top of head.
Does that mean a model with a tall hat (like a wizard) is in a larger scale than an identical model with a bare head?
No because you measure up to were the head should go, not where any hypothetical accessory and headgear ends, or you expect an eyeless model to have no scale in to eyes measurement.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I have to ask: is 2-4mm taller really"towering" over a space marine when you're looking at a model on the table from four feet away?
Yes. Marines are already slightly taller than IG (Even though not as much as they should be.) Humans that are taller than them look odd in 40K.
Yes, in that scale 1mm is quite a bit, assuming 40k is at 1/58 (humor me here cause it is heroic scale) 1mm difference is almost 6 cm .
Alternatively its an entirely different scale a 28mm tall miniature representing a 1,75 tall human would be roughly 1/62 scale a 30mm one would be roughly 1/58.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I have to ask: is 2-4mm taller really"towering" over a space marine when you're looking at a model on the table from four feet away?
have to agree here. I have some of the RH preying mantis and SF blood vestals. I use them in my daemons army as daemonettes. BOTH are shorter than the new crap looking daemonettes, but on the table you do not notice.
That being said looking at the comparison picture that includes the blood vestal, guardsman, and dark eldar, the blood vestal looks about on par size wise as the dark eldar. which means gw's own lines are ridiculously inconsistent, as I already stated the gw daemonette is taller than the blood vestal. Enough so that the GW daemonette IS actually a full head taller then the GW guardsman, not just 2mm.
Seconded. I use Dreamforge Eisenkern as my IG anyway, so I'm a little less concerned about model height. Maybe it is my strong myopia, but I cannot distinguish between models that are (tops) 2mm taller. At 4mm, I agree that I could spot the difference, but that's a half centimeter, it's a bit more understandable.
As I'm increasingly moving away from Games Workshop - I actually haven't gotten anything direct from them in a really long time - I'm not too concerned about the scale being exactly right. "In The ballpark" is close enough for me.
I just care that the models look good and appear about right compared with the vehicles.
That being said looking at the comparison picture that includes the blood vestal, guardsman, and dark eldar, the blood vestal looks about on par size wise as the dark eldar. which means gw's own lines are ridiculously inconsistent, as I already stated the gw daemonette is taller than the blood vestal. Enough so that the GW daemonette IS actually a full head taller then the GW guardsman, not just 2mm.
What? Eldar are supposed to be taller than humans, so that dark eldar is actually correctly scaled when compared to the IG soldier. And Daemonettes are not humans, they can easily be taller. It is IG compared to Space Marines scaling where GW has a problem.
Shashenka is the last Yaga Soul Weaver to be unlocked in this Kickstarter before we release Baba Yaga, the Soul Weaver matriarch.
As we mentioned when we revealed Svetlana, the Kurganova Freedom Fighter, the Kurganovas are torn between the chaos of their paganistic roots and the rigid order of their modern high-tech ultra hierarchic society.
The Yaga Soul Weavers stand in the middle of this perpetual turmoil. The powers that be tolerate their existence because the immense power they bring to battle, but at the same time, distrust these unpredictable forces, fearing that they could overthrow the current regime.
So the Soul Weavers are viewed with mixed feelings of respect, fear and disdain.
And for those who might have missed this in previous update, “the Yaga Soul Weavers channel the forces of ancient spirits through their cyber-enhanced shamanism. They work as a team on the battlefield, each of them serving as a relay and an amplifier of the shamanic forces. And one of their key skill is that they are able to unleash the power of the 'were' gene. This gene was discovered by Kurganova scientists and is the key to turn people in were-animals (like were-wolves or were-bears, for example). And so, the Yaga sorceresses are able to turn some of the very rigid and disciplined Kurganova Troops into furious and unstoppable wild beasts.”
Stay tuned for more unlocks coming up later today.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the Yaga Soul Weavers are growing on me the more we see of them. Certainly going to have to include some in my pledge.
Now, lets hope for something different, like The Lulu's for the second unlock of the day.
Perhaps RH should keep the Kurganova troops in GW-compatible scale since they are the most obvious "counts as" army and make the heroines, the IE and the Jailbirds all "truish" scale, with the tall and skinny shape.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Having internal deviation of scale will be catastrophic for their long term growth.
Definitely. They really can't do that. I also wouldn't want them to make their heroines any different from their regular troops. I don't think they will but I have seen one or two mention it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The debate about proportions is one thing, but with regards to size/height/"scaling", I really think we may all be worrying too much. I'm sure they aren't going to be giants, nor are they going to be tiny. They'll end up being more or less the same as the K sisters and it'll be fine. If they do come out slightly taller than we want, we'll just mount them on 2mm bases. No biggie.
As for proportions, never gonna please everyone, but I'm sure they aren't going to be disastrous either. This is a p&m thread I'm following, there's a pic of one the k sisters amongst some (smartly painted) ig. Looks fine.
LnR wrote: 12 AVATARS FOR YOU TO USE!
Update #31 · Jun 27, 2013 · comment
First off, you'll want to know that today, we will be unlocking 3 new items: Baba Yaga, the Soul Weaver Matriarch for the Kurganovas, Arthemisia Rozenkrantz, Strategist for the Iron Empire, and the much-awaited Snipers from the Jailbird Division, so stay tuned for 3 more updates...
While you wait, you can now dress up your avatar, as we've prepared 12 different ones for you to use as backers/supporters of the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy Kickstarter. With all this choice, we hope you'll find your favourite!
Just rick-click and save the ones you like.
Or grab them all when you download this zip file (right-click and choose 'Save Link as...').
Come on, looking at what limbo dancers do.. that is totally possible! Well, with something under her butt and the rifle, I do think it is a position to shoot. I really like the pose, it is something different. Of course it is not suitable position in a normal situation but war doesn't guarantee normal situations.^^
Either bring one of her knees down or out past her centre of gravity. Not a big detail. I'm not getting any snipers (thanks, sucky 40K! rules) but they do look good.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do we know when we'll see the new K mascot and the IE freedom mini?
Because judging at the rate other kickstarters have gone, it could take years to get all this product out (which would be tragic because I want that medic)
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I think they like money and would like their product to be as successful as possible - hence good comparability with Citadel Miniatures rather than taking the Dystopian Legions route. And for all my criticism of the KS, quality is the thing that RH pretty much has down pat...
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I hate that sniper on the right's pose. It's NOT a stable shooting position in the slightest! [/gunnerd]
Five bucks you can't even get in that pose without the rifle.......
Challenge accepted.
This is the best I can do with my M1 Garand standing in for a sniper rifle. (Sadly I don't own an M82 Barrett for a proper stand in XD)
Keep in mind I'm old and have busted up knees from the Marine Corps, so maybe one of you whipper snappers with actual cartilage in your joints can do better.
Why they insist gimping themselves in been compatible with GW, by definition they will never be and it only makes their product look inconsistent and of lower quality.....
I think they like money and would like their product to be as successful as possible - hence good comparability with Citadel Miniatures rather than taking the Dystopian Legions route. And for all my criticism of the KS, quality is the thing that RH pretty much has down pat...
Ramping up production and maintaining quality are critical for them now. I'd love to see their game be able to compete with 40k one day. Most of the games that come along are very skirmish-oriented, so I don't think they compete as directly with GW as they could. I'd love for them to create a game that can scale all the way to huge battles... Even if they don't have the supporting models right off the bat... It's not like no one proxied or scratch built for GW games over the years.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I hate that sniper on the right's pose. It's NOT a stable shooting position in the slightest! [/gunnerd]
Five bucks you can't even get in that pose without the rifle.......
Challenge accepted.
This is the best I can do with my M1 Garand standing in for a sniper rifle. (Sadly I don't own an M82 Barrett for a proper stand in XD)
Keep in mind I'm old and have busted up knees from the Marine Corps, so maybe one of you whipper snappers with actual cartilage in your joints can do better.
On a Herald note, the team at RH has confirmed that KST will be getting Were Troopers in the future after the kickstarter
On a personal note I cannot hope to tell you how pleased that makes me.
Two things;
First, Impressive!
Second, dang, I was really hoping the werewomen would be a possibility for a late term stretch goal... although that does seem rather impossible given the current modality. Ah well.
That's what I was hoping for too Buzzsaw, but it looks like the Weretroopers will be joining the Jetgirls for a later release date. RH says they didn't expect them to be so popular!
This is the best I can do with my M1 Garand standing in for a sniper rifle. (Sadly I don't own an M82 Barrett for a proper stand in XD)
Keep in mind I'm old and have busted up knees from the Marine Corps, so maybe one of you whipper snappers with actual cartilage in your joints can do better.
I asked in the comments section on the KS, but I got drowned out by people gushing over the bikes, does the heavy trooper upgrade cover both regular and command sets, or just regular? If it doesn't cover regular, I wonder then if we're going to see one for the command box. It seems like it's been a while since there was a box upgrade.
This is the best I can do with my M1 Garand standing in for a sniper rifle. (Sadly I don't own an M82 Barrett for a proper stand in XD)
Keep in mind I'm old and have busted up knees from the Marine Corps, so maybe one of you whipper snappers with actual cartilage in your joints can do better.
Remember it's not whether you win or lose, it's how good you look doing either.
Although if your profile is correct, 23 isn't old!
I feel old, probably gonna be walking with a cane within the year. Any way if I can get in that stance again without shattering my knees I'll try to fire in it next time I hit the range just for funsies, I am predicting "minute of barn door" accuracy.
JWMarines wrote: Ramping up production and maintaining quality are critical for them now. I'd love to see their game be able to compete with 40k one day. Most of the games that come along are very skirmish-oriented, so I don't think they compete as directly with GW as they could. I'd love for them to create a game that can scale all the way to huge battles... Even if they don't have the supporting models right off the bat... It's not like no one proxied or scratch built for GW games over the years.
Another reason to have a few proper plastic kits. Every single restic manufacturer I know eventually learns that restic just can't keep up with the requirements of mass production. Just this week Avatars of War finally bit the bullet and abandoned WarCast for their regiments (though they made the mistake of moving to a different restic already associated with massive undersupply). Everybody would win if they had a few proper plastic kits for when someone wants a couple of platoons for their IG - cheaper for them, cheaper for us, and doesn't tie up their production facilities for a week. Even if they still threw in a sprue of restic heads as a detailing kit, that would still be a lot faster and cheaper than doing the whole thing in restic.
Barzam wrote: I asked in the comments section on the KS, but I got drowned out by people gushing over the bikes, does the heavy trooper upgrade cover both regular and command sets, or just regular? If it doesn't cover regular, I wonder then if we're going to see one for the command box. It seems like it's been a while since there was a box upgrade.
Bazram, each set group (heavy, regular, heavy command, and command,) seperately get their own upgrades. Last I checked, which was just today, they had the heavy normal, regular, and regular command troop boxes upgraded. As well as artillery set 1, and Tania Tanker, Lieutenant Parker, Cruz, Elektra, #42, Krüger individually each have something new.
JWMarines wrote: Ramping up production and maintaining quality are critical for them now. I'd love to see their game be able to compete with 40k one day. Most of the games that come along are very skirmish-oriented, so I don't think they compete as directly with GW as they could. I'd love for them to create a game that can scale all the way to huge battles... Even if they don't have the supporting models right off the bat... It's not like no one proxied or scratch built for GW games over the years.
Another reason to have a few proper plastic kits. Every single restic manufacturer I know eventually learns that restic just can't keep up with the requirements of mass production. Just this week Avatars of War finally bit the bullet and abandoned WarCast for their regiments (though they made the mistake of moving to a different restic already associated with massive undersupply). Everybody would win if they had a few proper plastic kits for when someone wants a couple of platoons for their IG - cheaper for them, cheaper for us, and doesn't tie up their production facilities for a week. Even if they still threw in a sprue of restic heads as a detailing kit, that would still be a lot faster and cheaper than doing the whole thing in restic.
If we want Raging Heroes to eventually come close to competing with GW (and I do, I really do, although realistically that's a pipe dream at this point) then I think abandoning resin for plastic would be the surest way to make sure it doesn't happen. Plastic cannot and does not have the ability for the fine detail that is possible in resin and metal. There are plenty of bland, muddy featured plastic wargaming figures cluttering up the market, and if Raging Heroes goes plastic, then they would just be another drop in the ocean of blah. What sets Raging Heroes above the rest of the pack is the absolutely stunning detail in their minis, which is above any other game company I'm aware of. Even if plastic meant faster production, then throwing quality down the tubes for a quicker product isn't something that is going to help compete against GW. (GW already does speed over quality better than anyone else! )
I messaged Loud'N Raging early in the campaign, and I eventually got a message back. I had expressed my concerns way back when people were first beginning to speculate that the whole line might be converted over to plastic if they raised enough money, and I wanted to know if that was going to happen.
Hi,
I hear your concern but have to say our miniatures are not planned in plastic.
Heroines will be metal and troops and supports will be spincast resin.
Spincast resin miniartures is basically like resin, only the technology is different allowing greater number of production.
Hope that helps
Sincerely,
Jean-Romain
RAGING HEROES TEAM
Fortunately, it seems that the RH team agrees, and for that I'm glad.
PsychoticStorm wrote: That is the great debate and no, I refuse to acknowledge the old Napoleonics "measure to eye" standard.
For me a model is from feet to top of head.
Does that mean a model with a tall hat (like a wizard) is in a larger scale than an identical model with a bare head?
The existence of hats is exactly why the old standard was to measure to the eyes. It's easier.
For whatever it's worth, if these girls wind up taller than Guardsmen, that would kill any interest I have in buying them. My primary interest in them would be to use as alternate Guard, or for Necromunda. So if they're significantly taller than GW's humans (and even the 'reworked' model in the render pictures was too much taller than the Cadian pictured) they are useless to me.
Jimsolo wrote: If we want Raging Heroes to eventually come close to competing with GW (and I do, I really do, although realistically that's a pipe dream at this point) then I think abandoning resin for plastic would be the surest way to make sure it doesn't happen. Plastic cannot and does not have the ability for the fine detail that is possible in resin and metal.
Your argument is complete nonsense. Even if I concede for the sake of argument that metal and resin are better at reproducing fine detail, there is no sane reason to believe that producing some mass infantry kits in proper plastic stops you competing with someone who produces some mass infantry kits in proper plastic. You are literally suggesting that doing the same thing GW does takes you out of GW's league.
On the other hand, not doing the same thing GW does makes you physically incapable of competing. Even if you like handwritten manuscripts better than mass printed works, you cannot scale production of the former to the point where you can compete with the latter.
Ok, so quick question to make sure I'm reading this right.
You can now mix and match the different units to add up to a pledge amount. Whatever kinds you want, as long as the cash amount adds up.
What I want to know is, can I do this with a pledge amount that doesn't line up with one of the "official" pledge amounts.
For example, let's say I only wanted to pledge 60 bucks. Would this mean that I'm stuck at the "First Class Box" at the 40 dollar pledge level, or would I be able to get 60 dollars worth of items?
I kind of want to get 5 of each of the troops just to have for painting. I don't know if I'd use them for gaming considering they would not match my army in the slightest.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Ok, so quick question to make sure I'm reading this right.
You can now mix and match the different units to add up to a pledge amount. Whatever kinds you want, as long as the cash amount adds up.
What I want to know is, can I do this with a pledge amount that doesn't line up with one of the "official" pledge amounts.
For example, let's say I only wanted to pledge 60 bucks. Would this mean that I'm stuck at the "First Class Box" at the 40 dollar pledge level, or would I be able to get 60 dollars worth of items?
I kind of want to get 5 of each of the troops just to have for painting. I don't know if I'd use them for gaming considering they would not match my army in the slightest.
What do you mean, 5 of each of the troops? What kind of troops? Like the Troopers section? That could help us help you better, because if you only want to pledge 60 bucks, are you also including shipping in that?
Jimsolo wrote: If we want Raging Heroes to eventually come close to competing with GW (and I do, I really do, although realistically that's a pipe dream at this point) then I think abandoning resin for plastic would be the surest way to make sure it doesn't happen. Plastic cannot and does not have the ability for the fine detail that is possible in resin and metal.
Your argument is complete nonsense. Even if I concede for the sake of argument that metal and resin are better at reproducing fine detail, there is no sane reason to believe that producing some mass infantry kits in proper plastic stops you competing with someone who produces some mass infantry kits in proper plastic. You are literally suggesting that doing the same thing GW does takes you out of GW's league.
On the other hand, not doing the same thing GW does makes you physically incapable of competing. Even if you like handwritten manuscripts better than mass printed works, you cannot scale production of the former to the point where you can compete with the latter.
I'm sorry you think that way Alex.
A company much, much smaller than Games Workshop lacks the financial and industrial capacity to beat the giant at their own game. I think a far better strategy would be to find aspects of the market that Games Workshop has neglected. I would much rather see Raging Heroes go a different route, and actually have a chance of carving out a market for themselves with those who feel neglected by the (comparatively) lower quality Games Workshop models as their core customer base, especially if the other option is to watch someone try to beat GW at their own game. GW is larger, older, more stable, and has more money. I don't see how you can really think that Raging Heroes can compete directly against them.
I do concede that I'm not Gordon Gekko, and I'm not the third Koch brother. As naught but a simple lumberjack, it's always possible that the vagaries of the market are simply beyond me. In finance and industry, as in all professions, reality can sometimes fly in the face of common sense and folk wisdom, so I'm willing to accept the possibility that I'm wrong.
However, where I do not think I'm wrong is the whole resin/metal vs plastic issue. (Although again, it's possible.) The incredible detail shown in the miniatures that Raging Heroes already produces is beyond anything I've ever seen produced in plastic. If someone shows me cheap plastic minis that look that good as these, I would of course be willing to change my mind, but as of yet, no one has been able to.
In any event, there's no reason for flaring tempers, brother. We're all just looking for pretty minis here. Hope you find what you're looking for.
Yeah, you could do that. You can pledge additional funds on top of the reward package you chose, and still get the extra models, so I believe you could do it the way you want MrMoustaffa.
And if you want two $10 Heroines, and one $15 Heroine, it is completely appropriate to increase your pledge and "pay the difference" on that final model per the team.
And if you want more Heroines/Troops/Support than what is included in your BOX level, you can pick and choose what you like, total up their value, and increase your pledge by that amount.
cool. Now I just have to find 83 bucks laying around somewhere...
Well, the other option would be going the route of getting 4 different Private level pledges. Saves you the shipping. Though you'd need 4 KS accounts to do it that way.
Jimsolo wrote: If we want Raging Heroes to eventually come close to competing with GW (and I do, I really do, although realistically that's a pipe dream at this point) then I think abandoning resin for plastic would be the surest way to make sure it doesn't happen. Plastic cannot and does not have the ability for the fine detail that is possible in resin and metal.
Your argument is complete nonsense. Even if I concede for the sake of argument that metal and resin are better at reproducing fine detail, there is no sane reason to believe that producing some mass infantry kits in proper plastic stops you competing with someone who produces some mass infantry kits in proper plastic. You are literally suggesting that doing the same thing GW does takes you out of GW's league.
On the other hand, not doing the same thing GW does makes you physically incapable of competing. Even if you like handwritten manuscripts better than mass printed works, you cannot scale production of the former to the point where you can compete with the latter.
That's not really how competition works. When you want to compete with a big company, you don't go for their strengths. That'd get you nowhere. Instead, you look for the gap in the market that they're not covering. Offer something different, but just as good as (or better than) what they're offering. This goes double when you're talking about a small studio in France versus a company as big as GW, based in the US (and therefore has better access to the huge English-speaking market).
BABA YAGA, MATRIARCH OF THE SOUL WEAVERS - now unlocked
There is no doubt that Baba Yaga is one of the most respected and feared character in the high spheres of the Kurgan power.
Nobody knows exactly what her edge is.
Some even say that she was never actually born, and that she was there haunting the woods and weaving her witchcraft form the very first days of human history.
The thing on which everyone agrees is that her shamanic powers are immense.
For generations, she has been in charge of supervising the training of the young Soul Weavers. No one exactly knows how they are trained, or even why they are chosen, but the Yaga Matriarch and her acolytes are always roaming around, from large cities to the remotest villages to find gifted apprentices. They take the young girls with them when they are between 10 and 13 years of age, and they are not seen again for another 10 years. When they reappear, the little girls are grown-up women who radiate the Yaga amazing powers and aura.
The old Baba Yaga very much knows that she is perceived as a necessary evil by most of the Kurgan elite who shun her ancient powers. And so, it is often wondered why she so freely associates with them and support their military efforts.
But Baba Yaga see through the fabric of time, and her motives are most likely too complex for most humans to understand...
It's a shame that Rosenkrantz doesn't have it's associated Guildenstern model to go with it.
Regarding the plastic vs. metal or restic: I don't know if any of you have ever had the pleasure of owning and playing with Confrontation models. They were wonderful, and even though metal was shunned at the time (at least in my circle) as quickly becoming archaic, we kept buying those models because they were great, but also because the gaming experience was great too. If the RH game is tight, then people will buy the models regardless of material.
Now, to answer the charges against cheap plastic, I'd say that GW models may be many things, but the newer kits show a lot of details (sometimes too much for my taste). The Wyrd Ten Thunders are very nicely detailed, and the Dreamforge Eisenkern are nice and sharp.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: It's a shame that Rosenkrantz doesn't have it's associated Guildenstern model to go with it.
Regarding the plastic vs. metal or restic: I don't know if any of you have ever had the pleasure of owning and playing with Confrontation models. They were wonderful, and even though metal was shunned at the time (at least in my circle) as quickly becoming archaic, we kept buying those models because they were great, but also because the gaming experience was great too. If the RH game is tight, then people will buy the models regardless of material.
Now, to answer the charges against cheap plastic, I'd say that GW models may be many things, but the newer kits show a lot of details (sometimes too much for my taste). The Wyrd Ten Thunders are very nicely detailed, and the Dreamforge Eisenkern are nice and sharp.
I was going to add to the discussion of "cheap plastic" models that anyone who has the fortune to own the DreamForge Shadowkesh knows that modern plastics are capable of great subtly and capturing both inorganic planes and organic, flowing lines.
Is there a point that RH's heroes are too detailed for transfer, entirely possible. But when we're talking about rank and file troops, especially troops wearing heavy, plated armor, it seems very strange to say that they would convert poorly to plastic.
As Alex says, the fact is that RH is devoted to using boutique, hero unit level production to produce very, very detailed figures. Which is fine, but it does mean that if one, say, wanted to produce a large infantry army using DFG units and TGG units, you'll definitely go sparing on the TGG units because on the troop level they just cost so much more.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: It's a shame that Rosenkrantz doesn't have it's associated Guildenstern model to go with it.
Regarding the plastic vs. metal or restic: I don't know if any of you have ever had the pleasure of owning and playing with Confrontation models. They were wonderful, and even though metal was shunned at the time (at least in my circle) as quickly becoming archaic, we kept buying those models because they were great, but also because the gaming experience was great too. If the RH game is tight, then people will buy the models regardless of material.
Now, to answer the charges against cheap plastic, I'd say that GW models may be many things, but the newer kits show a lot of details (sometimes too much for my taste). The Wyrd Ten Thunders are very nicely detailed, and the Dreamforge Eisenkern are nice and sharp.
I was going to add to the discussion of "cheap plastic" models that anyone who has the fortune to own the DreamForge Shadowkesh knows that modern plastics are capable of great subtly and capturing both inorganic planes and organic, flowing lines.
Is there a point that RH's heroes are too detailed for transfer, entirely possible. But when we're talking about rank and file troops, especially troops wearing heavy, plated armor, it seems very strange to say that they would convert poorly to plastic.
As Alex says, the fact is that RH is devoted to using boutique, hero unit level production to produce very, very detailed figures. Which is fine, but it does mean that if one, say, wanted to produce a large infantry army using DFG units and TGG units, you'll definitely go sparing on the TGG units because on the troop level they just cost so much more.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: It's a shame that Rosenkrantz doesn't have it's associated Guildenstern model to go with it.
Regarding the plastic vs. metal or restic: I don't know if any of you have ever had the pleasure of owning and playing with Confrontation models. They were wonderful, and even though metal was shunned at the time (at least in my circle) as quickly becoming archaic, we kept buying those models because they were great, but also because the gaming experience was great too. If the RH game is tight, then people will buy the models regardless of material.
Now, to answer the charges against cheap plastic, I'd say that GW models may be many things, but the newer kits show a lot of details (sometimes too much for my taste). The Wyrd Ten Thunders are very nicely detailed, and the Dreamforge Eisenkern are nice and sharp.
I was going to add to the discussion of "cheap plastic" models that anyone who has the fortune to own the DreamForge Shadowkesh knows that modern plastics are capable of great subtly and capturing both inorganic planes and organic, flowing lines.
Is there a point that RH's heroes are too detailed for transfer, entirely possible. But when we're talking about rank and file troops, especially troops wearing heavy, plated armor, it seems very strange to say that they would convert poorly to plastic.
As Alex says, the fact is that RH is devoted to using boutique, hero unit level production to produce very, very detailed figures. Which is fine, but it does mean that if one, say, wanted to produce a large infantry army using DFG units and TGG units, you'll definitely go sparing on the TGG units because on the troop level they just cost so much more.
The trade off though is, that they are known for what they are known for. Deviation could cause a dip in quality, which for a company that is known for its quality, they would lose market share simply with such a dip, even if it is a miniscule amount, it is enough that it could hurt them long term. Whereas going into the plastics trooper business, while being a decent sized trade market, places them in direct competition with Mantic, GW, and a couple of other companies. Now, realistically, and I know I will get backlash from the GW haters, but if GW decided that they wanted/needed/should get into the female trooper trade market, and decided they wanted to do them at high quality, they could easily do it, and do it faster and cheaper (on their end,) wise, than any of the other companies could. Why? Their sheer size, and how large their piece of the marketshare is. RF jumping into that pond means they could definitively gain customers, but how many do they gain versus how many do they lose, and does their jump into that marketshare act as the straw to GW's camel, or not, are unknowns which means, we cannot with certainty, claim they maintain their niche hold, which is what they have survived on so far. The transition is not a definitively beneficial one.
Dreamforge, as you are bringing up so often, went in with knowing where they wanted to jump in at, which was the same pond as the big boys. RH hasn't decided one way, or the other yet formally, and is sticking with what they know they are good at (for the most part.) I do believe it is a decision they need to finalize, but not within the scope of this kickstarter, because transitioning now would probably hurt them far more unlike waiting until they have actually produced the troopers to find out if they could possibly transition well into the plastic/restic trooper market.
With the dearth of female modern/sci-fi troopers on the market right now, I think both GW and RH have styles that are distinctive enough both could survive.
You'll find there is a small but fierce group that wants just that from GW, females. SoB, of course, but any females in the armies of the imperium would be welcome.
You're of course right about the possibility that jumping into the plastic pond could literally kill them. Exhibit A, Defiance Games. Warzone is an unknown at this point, because plastic is a completely different medium than what they introduced at first. So is Wild West Exodus.
It's an exciting time to be a gamer, we just have to be open to working with different mediums. I know I am. If RH does Restic, so be it, as long the standards are as high as for their other models.
I am not worried about their quality dropping, I am not caring about what medium is best, that is like a dong measuring contest between drunken buddies, and trying to see them come to agreeable terms with their pants down.
I am worried that they might try to bite off more than they can chew, while working on a product that is as extensive as this line is right now. They don't NEED to jump into plastic troopers at this point in time. They need to make sure the product is released with due diligence and in due time. If they wait to see how their troopers sell in the first place, they can then self fund a plastic line of the same. They do not NEED to produce only one or the other, as simultaneous production maintains both worlds until they know just how successful the plastic is versus the resin. Then when they have enough data, they can decide which to continue, and which to place on hold.
There is this fallacy about them reducing price, which we have no idea is actually feasible for them to do so, with the high overhead for producing the molds for plastic minis. They would need to funnel funds from other projects, to do that, which places the other projects in jeopardy. This ruins the due diligence section I mentioned.
somewheresomehow wrote: I am not caring about what medium is best, that is like a dong measuring contest between drunken buddies, and trying to see them come to agreeable terms with their pants down. I am worried that they might try to bite off more than they can chew
For whatever it's worth, if these girls wind up taller than Guardsmen, that would kill any interest I have in buying them. My primary interest in them would be to use as alternate Guard, or for Necromunda. So if they're significantly taller than GW's humans (and even the 'reworked' model in the render pictures was too much taller than the Cadian pictured) they are useless to me.
Although can I ask are you planning on just using them on their own?
I've found that things a little bit 'out' of scale are OK if they are used amongst models from the same range - an all Rogue Trader-era marine army for instance, or all Mantic Orcs.
somewheresomehow wrote: I am not caring about what medium is best, that is like a dong measuring contest between drunken buddies, and trying to see them come to agreeable terms with their pants down. I am worried that they might try to bite off more than they can chew
Can you reformulate that?
Hey! You cut it out of context. And somewhat off topic wise, it is their drunken inability to choose the rules for the measuring and are just embarassing themselves with their pants down. The arguments over metal, resin, plastic, restic, silly putty, which can be had elsewhere, are here, more of a distraction from what is actually needing to be discussed. Like how the wave shipments will work, and what their plan is if something suddenly changes in their internal scheduling. I highly doubt, since we haven't heard hide nor hair of a hint of them reaching the number they wanted.. that we reached the necessary funding for plastic kits. I think that is a bit of a forgone conclusion, at least at this point in the KS. Is it possible if the end suddenly shoots upwards? Probably, but I do not deign to think we will have a massive upswing like on the size of Deadzone.
Even if there is a big upswing, I don,t think it would be wise to turn to plastic post-KS, and have potential issues, as you said. They are wise enough not to do so, I trust.
Out of context? Yes. Funny? Absolutely.
I don't think they can answer wave shipping questions, because I don't think they have a firm schedule of how things will go post-KS. Are they waiting for funds to come through before they run all of their test prints? How many print runs will they need to do before designs go from WIP to final? A lot of imponderables at this point.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Even if there is a big upswing, I don,t think it would be wise to turn to plastic post-KS, and have potential issues, as you said. They are wise enough not to do so, I trust.
Out of context? Yes. Funny? Absolutely.
I don't think they can answer wave shipping questions, because I don't think they have a firm schedule of how things will go post-KS. Are they waiting for funds to come through before they run all of their test prints? How many print runs will they need to do before designs go from WIP to final? A lot of imponderables at this point.
True. But I think a good internal schedule that they could share would be a big sigh of relief for those of us who witnessed the first week and were like "Wut?" I love these minis, don't get me wrong, and they are growing on me more and more every day, but a year out, and having some grumpy issues with my bank, means that I have been hoping to see something that I -don't- like, to justify dropping down a pledge level, and just surviving with what I can get there.
THE KURGANOVA'S MOTOR BIKE and FAN FICTION!
Update #35 · Jun 28, 2013 · 1 comment
New unlock:
Here is the Kurganova Shock Troops Motor Bike.
The Kurganova government takes a very big pride in its technological accomplishments and its war gear is amongst the most advanced.
And it must be said that most of the designs and weapons used by other human armies have actually been inspired by (or unabashedly copied from) the Kurgan equipment.
This war bike is no exception.
What's up next?
Today will see the unlocks of the Jailbirds's Pyromaniac Yoko the Psycho as well as Hitwoman Mortaria for the Iron Empire.
And the Paypal option is almost ready to go, so stay tuned...
We've got great Fan Fiction already!!!
There's been some pretty cool action in the Comments section today, with two cool short stories featuring several of the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy in action. As they are definitely in the mood and spirit we are developing, we wanted to share them with you (or just check out the Comments thread and look for them directly).
The first one is by Den aka MDS (Morathi's Darkest Sin), and the second one is from Jimsolo (Raging Fanboy)... I have not edited these stories, only added links to the concepts... Enjoy!
From Den aka MDS (Morathi's Darkest Sin):
She sat crouched back into the corner of a rooftop wall, her focused breathing the only movement as she sat in the darkness of night. Her eyes closed with a halo of yellow hair hanging down over her fringe and around her shoulders. All around the small building she could hear the screams of battle, guns firing, bullets flashing through the air, explosions louder than thunder as they tore open the earth and showered troops with debris. Occasionally she recognized a voice, a yell to fire, pull back, the carnage of war lay beyond her eye lids but all she could do was breathe. Her focus, her calm was all that mattered, the rhythm of her body as she sat in the quiet spot, then she took a final breath and held it. Lifting herself up she slowly turned in a slow fluid movement bringing the long shafted rifle down gently on the cold stone of the wall descended down into a kneeling position looking down the telescopic sight toward the enemies distant battle line.
There they where, agents of their oppressors, the military might of the ascendancy that had pushed them down their entire lives, a slightly angry smirk crossed her lips as she picked out a cocky looking young male officer ordering his troops forward and softly squeezed the trigger. He was dead before she had slipped back down into her hiding spot, another member of the Greymund Guard would not be going home. With a grumble she discharged the round with a sharp tug before sliding another into place, she was running low of ammo. A peril of being a rag tag force, or so Parker said. She wasn't so sure. It could be worse though, at least it was only Greymund Guard and not the Kurganovas out there. That would have been a whole different ball game, although facing off against Noxx again would at least have been fun.
"Thank the wild for small mercies" she mused to herself.
Casting her fingers into a pouch on her belt she withdrew a small strawb lolly, she wasn't going to ask Bernadette how she was coming up with the damned things, but she was certainly enjoying the zing.
"Seems I need more ammo?" she said down to the helmet beside her.
It was sitting on a pile of bricks, She couldn't remember why she'd giving it ears, or scratched as smiling face in the front, but as always Hans gazed up at her, never doubting, never questioning. she picked him up and placed him on her head as she scrambled up and moved over to the small ladder she had used to come up a short while before. As she looked down she could see two jailbirds dead, Lea Longshot and some other girl she didn't recognize, partially because most of the face was gone.
Gripping the ladder with both hands and the side of her boots she slid down and rummaged through the ammo belts, taking several rounds, and pocketing a small silver watch from Lea.
"Blondie!"
She glanced up at Mimi looking down at her. The radio operator held a slight frown, although Blondie didn't acknowledge it.
"What?"
Mimi looked over the two dead bodies, then back at Blondie.
"Raven says get your butt up to the ridge and deal with their snipers, if you'd be so kind!"
Blondie grinned and picked up Lea's rifle tossing it at Mimi, who caught it in her free hand.
"Bodies can be replaced, not so much weapons.”
Mimi glanced at the rifle, then back to the Blonde sniper already moving across the courtyard, and slipping down behind a wall to avoid a fire fight between Parkers unit and a bunch of conscripts.
“You're all heart Blondie” she muttered.
From Jimsolo (Raging Fanboy):
Becky knelt in the scrub brush, listening. Behind her, she could still hear the rhythmic pounding of the artillery shelling the abandoned safe point. She sighed. They'd managed to make it almost comfortable in the three months they'd been there. Still, she'd always known it couldn't last. The Kurganovas always came...eventually.
The stunted forests east of the city were the last place to flee. Becky held her autorifle, using the scope as a makeshift monocular. Ahead of her, she could make out a number of ramshackle buildings, the corrugated metal walls riddled with holes. Squatters digs, although from the look of things, the squatters were long since dead or moved on.
Becky moved forward cautiously. The scree shifted beneath her feet, and she paused to glance back at her bike, concealed beneath an evergreen tree. If the ground hadn't been so loose, so steep, she'd have considered taking the vehicle up to the tin house, but they were low on supplies as it was without needing parts to fix a motorcycle.
As she crept up to the edge of the nearest house, Becky paused. She swore she heard a sound from the side of the building. Lowering herself almost to her knees, she leaned forward, trying to see into the open door. When she heard the explosion of skittering and scraping, she was already wheeling around, the force of her turn sending her crashing into the rusted metal. Becky growled and pulled the trigger, ready to cut whoever was ambushing her in half as their charge carried them around the corner.
The autorifle opened up with a noisy barrage, the bolts firing over the head of the squirrel that she had scared up. Fleeing down the hill, the panicked rodent slid through the loose rock chips, its tail a wide bottlebrush of fear. Becky shook her head and laughed, glad that none of the other Jailbirds had been around to see the lapse in her cool.
And then she saw it.
For a moment she could do nothing but stare through the open door of the tin shack. She blinked, sure she must be mistaken. On a column of shelves on the far wall of the hut were stacked more cans of food than Becky had seen in months. She peered closer, telling herself that the cans must be empty, or a trap, that there was no way she could be this lucky. But the dust and the cobwebs told her that the food must indeed be abandoned, and none of the cans looked open.
Becky laughed. This was enough food to feed them all for a week. As she stepped into the shack, she saw cans of pineapple, beans, tomatoes, and even some canned pasta. She swung her autorifle onto her shoulder, wondering if anyone would miss a can of fruit...
The shock coursed through her without warning. As Becky hit the ground, she felt some kind of electricity surging through her, her muscles stiff as stone.
A small, waifish girl stepped over Becky from where she had been hidden, pressed against the wall the door was on. A moment later, the other woman stepped over Becky and into view, and Becky's heart sank. If the huge iron staff hadn't given her away, the tattoos running up her legs certainly would have. A Soul Weaver.
"Bind her," said the Soul Weaver, her knee length blond hair brushing Becky's face as she passed. "The werebeasts will be hungry."
"Yes Shashenka." The girl scampered to comply.
As the Soul Weaver knelt down, Becky couldn't even stop her paralyzed eyes from leaking a single tear.
"You see child," said Shashenka, "be it a wall of canned beans or a house of gingerbread, little children lost in the woods can never resist a treat."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Think this is probably my favourite out of the three bikes that we've seen so far. Though whilst it's nice, it's not nice enough to grab any in my pledge rewards.
Just in case someone missed the following information in the quoted update above:
And the Paypal option is almost ready to go, so stay tuned...
and also
earlier KS LnR comment wrote:Paypal has been tentatively set up, need to lift my limits before it goes live. It's barebones right now, but it'll do the job. I expect you'll be able to add to you pledge for a short while afterwards, but we will make that official via an update, though.
Ick. Can't say I like the bikes at all for any of the factions. Thankfully, they aren't anything I was looking forward to anyway, so not that big of a deal for me. I suppose the next big thing is just going to be the mechs since the other bikes are probably pretty much going to be the same.
Thanks, and congratulations to Morathi's Darkest Sin! (My own contribution only came after his, so credit for the idea rightly belongs with him. )
I'm kind of hoping that the other two bikes for each faction are some alternative type of bike (such as a light bike, or an extra heavy bike, or a trike, or a bike with a sidecar).
Well, having looked at the images on the front of the KS again, we could see heavier / lighter bikes. Single person trikes are also a possibility, though I think sidecars are a bit of wishful thinking as the images all state single crew for all 9 bikes. Not fully ruling it out, but I think more of the same is most likely.
Is it just me and my non-motorbike riding sensibilities, or are all of the bikes... wildly improbable? I mean, could that arraignment of struts in the front actually allow the bike to turn?
There doesn't seem to me to be any sort of a pivot point that would allow you to steer from the front.
Granted, having said all that, motorbikes seem like a terribly stylized thing to actually see on the battlefield. It's basically an attempt to have mounted cavalry (except, of course, real armored cavalry isn't exactly riding bikes...).
Don't get me wrong, the riders are very well realized, but the bikes themselves just seem to thick and heavy, they look like they came out of a steampunk setting where they run off of coal.
It's because they use special secret materials in the construction and design of the bikes. They don't just use plastic, fiberglass, and steel; they use plastic, fiberglass, and steel FROM SPACE!
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's because they use special secret materials in the construction and design of the bikes. They don't just use plastic, fiberglass, and steel; they use plastic, fiberglass, and steel FROM SPACE!
They have said themselves one of the areas they will adjust before final production are the breasts. The prints aren't the final draft as it were.
I have some of their blood vestals, and while they are total cheesecake, they are proportionally accurate in the chest area. Its the legs that are a bit over the top.
3 more unlocked, Mortaria Noctis, Yoko the Psycho, Necro Priestess Nephahrya!
Today we are unlocking 2 Heroines: Jailbirds's Pyromaniac Yoko the Psycho, and the Iron Empire Hitwoman Mortaria.
Yoko the Psycho, Pyromaniac
There is no doubt that many of the Jailbirds are a bit of crazy loose cannons... But when you meet Yoko, you wouldn't expect her to be one of the craziest of the bunch... With her childish laugh and her cute demeanor, she looks a bit like a teenage girl.
But Yoko only has one burning interest in life: fire!
Whether using a tiny box of matches or a heavy flame thrower, nothing makes her happier than dancing flames and... dare we say it?... the smell of napalm in the morning...
Mortaria Noctis, Hitwoman
The arcane and lore uncovered by the Iron Empire are particularly deep and complex, and it is believed that only a very small part has yet been understood. One of the darkest secrets of the lost Aegyptian civilization are the death scarabs. Discovered by the high Necro Priestess Nephahrya herself, these creatures instantly turn the body of any living thing they enter into some kind of undead puppet at the command of their necromancer master.
When Nephahrya heard about the astounding prowess of a young sniper named Mortaria Noctis, she hatched a crazy scheme. After several years of complex research, the two deadly women have been able to create a bullet that contains one of these scarabs...
This feat made Mortaria instantly famous among the Iron Empire's high society, and turned her into some sort of dark heroine capable of taking control of the highest ranking enemy officers and thus, of their troops, with just a single shot.
Nephahrya, Necro Priestess of the Iron Empire
And in case you missed her, here's a full-size image of Nephahrya:
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I hate that sniper on the right's pose. It's NOT a stable shooting position in the slightest! [/gunnerd]
Five bucks you can't even get in that pose without the rifle.......
Challenge accepted.
This is the best I can do with my M1 Garand standing in for a sniper rifle. (Sadly I don't own an M82 Barrett for a proper stand in XD)
Keep in mind I'm old and have busted up knees from the Marine Corps, so maybe one of you whipper snappers with actual cartilage in your joints can do better.
AlexHolker wrote: As is so often the case, Noctis would be much better without those Iron Empire helmets.
Actually, for once we're in agreement. I have a dislike for the gas mask look that makes me unable to truly love the Iron Empire. (Still, there are a few of them I plan on getting anyway.) However, I think that the appeal of other armies with the gas mask look indicates that there is a customer base for that sort of thing, even if I'm not part of it. I know I'm not going to like every army, or even every model in the armies I do like, so I'm okay with a few things that are outside my personal comfort zone.
I would be getting SO MUCH of this stuff if it were in plastic. Resin is just meh. I'll still get some of the metal heroes, but it's a pale shade of the money I'd spend on plastic.
It all depends on how they handle things over the next week.
I can certainly see it passing $500k, unless they do something of epic levels of silly. Though how much past that depends a lot on how they communicate over the next 8 days. There's still a number of unanswered questions, ranging from what their final decision on scale is, paypal pledges, post KS additions and freebies/upgrades. (Probably a couple of others, depending on PoV)
I know they've briefly touched on some of these subjects, but it all seems like a case of jam tomorrow in some cases. They've been talking about the paypal pledges option for some time with no real progress. Similarly with the upgrade/freebie SGs, we're $25k past the last one and they've only said that there are more coming. That itself took them a couple of days to confirm and we're rapidly running out of time if they're planning more SG unlocks for them.
The paypal issue is that if you're going to have any sort of substantial amount of money going through an account you need to provide Paypal with a whole bunch of documentation thanks to recent changes in money laundering regulations
Last time I looked these have to be originals sent by post. Paypal then need to authorise the whole thing both of which RH will have no control over so if they hadn't known about it in advance (this seems the case) they are probably stuck waiting
Mortaria is one of my favorites so far, so unbelievable sleek, a contrast to the other heroines and figures with much more decoration and aspects. And I do like the gas mask/helmets. The whole IE wouldn't have the same vibe and look without them. Of course alternatives are great, I would like to have some for the one or another but all in all I wouldn't pass on the Darth Vader look. It's what makes them so special.
I'm still of the opinion that there's too much leg and not enough torso, especially for such an upright pose. Closer to 1/3/3 should be the near-ideal proportions with relation to head, torso, and legs.
The prints are closer to 1/2/3, which makes the model seem like it has no lower abdomen, just a (rather large still) chest. At 1/2/3, the hips are basically right below the lower ribs, cutting out the equivalent of about 4-6 inches (in scale) of musculature that makes up the lower abdomen. I don't think the solution is a wider chest, but rather a taller torso and slightly shorter legs.
I think if RH can achieve the above proportions, the models will fit in with the current Blood Vestals, the TGG Heroines, and all the while adhering to a more realistic human body proportion than the rather stunty GW models. They'll also seem less leggy, which I think would help a bit.
~iPaint
+1
I vote for "taller torso, shorter legs, smaller bust" for the rank and file girls
- and make them slightly taller than IG. As RH minis are more realistic in proportions, scaling them to be as short as IG would mean that their heads, arms, hands etc. would look way too small.
Nothing wrong with having amazon women fighting alongside the men.
I wouldn't mind having them in GW Dark Eldar Wych size. Especially the character models (who benefit more from being tall and leggy).
The model with lengthened mid-section has freakishly long torso. It would be even more apparent if she hadn't the gun in front of her. I wish that people who have no clue about anatomy would stop making suggestions how to 'correct' anatomy of the models.
Crimson wrote: The model with lengthened mid-section has freakishly long torso. It would be even more apparent if she hadn't the gun in front of her. I wish that people who have no clue about anatomy would stop making suggestions how to 'correct' anatomy of the models.
Aleksandr Kurganov is deeply loved and seen as the good father of the Kurgan nation.
His courage and his integrity have always stood in contrast with the corrupt and greedy Kurgan high society and political milieu.
But his life would mean little to him without his 3 daughters, Olga, Ivanka and Malinka, and his wife, the supreme ruler of the Kurgans.
Universally praised as a military genius, Aleksandr outdoes himself when he works in sync with his three daughters.
Together, they are capable of hatching the cleverest strategies and achieving the most outstanding wins.
It was Aleksandr who gave a puppy to his daughters, for Malinka's 10th birthday.
Although nobody quite knows where Charlie the war bulldog came from, or why he's always wearing the hats of military heroes of ancient times...
Update #37 · Jun 29, 2013 · comment
Aleksandr Kurganov is deeply loved and seen as the good father of the Kurgan nation.
His courage and his integrity have always stood in contrast with the corrupt and greedy Kurgan high society and political milieu.
But his life would mean little to him without his 3 daughters, Olga, Ivanka and Malinka, and his wife, the supreme ruler of the Kurgans.
Universally praised as a military genius, Aleksandr outdoes himself when he works in sync with his three daughters.
Together, they are capable of hatching the cleverest strategies and achieving the most outstanding wins.
It was Aleksandr who gave a puppy to his daughters, for Malinka's 10th birthday.
Although nobody quite knows where Charlie the war bulldog came from, or why he's always wearing the hats of military heroes of ancient times...
Any chance that the Artillery Support pieces will have the option to come separately? I would love to have the option of buying the gunners without the heavy weapon to put on my barrage tanks like a Basilisk....
The angle of the gloved hand is slightly wrong in relation to the sword and rest of the arm, making the foreshortening and the grip look weird. I am sure this will not affect the actual miniature.
Crimson wrote: The model with lengthened mid-section has freakishly long torso. It would be even more apparent if she hadn't the gun in front of her. I wish that people who have no clue about anatomy would stop making suggestions how to 'correct' anatomy of the models.
Ok then why don't you stop?
Weren't you the guy who wanted 1:3:3? That only works if she's 5'3".
Plus you were using a fully-helmeted head to measure the "1" part of that, right?
Just making sure we're all on the same page here with respect to anatomy, Mr Liefeld.
my "campaign" was to lengthen the torso, a "2 heads torso" is too small regardless of the legs been 3 (a common drawing proportion) 3,5 which is the normal or 4 which is the idealized/ supermodel proportions (and what RH are using in their concept art), I chose 3 heads legs or 1/3/3 which is closer to 1/2/3 than it is 1/2/3,5 or 1/3/4 but in all cases my main concern is the torso been too small and not the length of the legs which is secondary issue at the moment.
Now I think, when somebody pointed out the helmet, I illustrated I was counting heads not helmets, but was this even needed, one should at least assume that much.
TLDR My main argument is the torso is too short, which however much one may try to attack my initial suggestion on keeping 3 heads legs, does not change it as a fact.
PsychoticStorm wrote: my "campaign" was to lengthen the torso, a "2 heads torso" is too small regardless of the legs been 3 (a common drawing proportion) 3,5 which is the normal or 4 which is the idealized/ supermodel proportions (and what RH are using in their concept art), I chose 3 heads legs or 1/3/3 which is closer to 1/2/3 than it is 1/2/3,5 or 1/3/4 but in all cases my main concern is the torso been too small and not the length of the legs which is secondary issue at the moment.
Now I think, when somebody pointed out the helmet, I illustrated I was counting heads not helmets, but was this even needed, one should at least assume that much.
TLDR My main argument is the torso is too short, which however much one may try to attack my initial suggestion on keeping 3 heads legs, does not change it as a fact.
Having the same length for legs and torso looks weird and is also not at all like the average adult human anatomy. Moreover, the RH minis and their concept art do not follow a two-heads-torso model. The torsi are longer, probably around 2.5 heads.
Your illustration showed red lines around the helmet (maybe even further apart); a more accurate measurement of the head might help you realize the proportion of the torso is not (that far) off.
I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
Does that look like a good head measure?
Edit: There's space above and below the head in addition to the miniatures hairdo.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
This image shows about 2.2/2.8 torso/leg ratio, which is pretty much perfect. Only problem with the torso is that boobs are somewhat too large, making the rest of the torso appear small. But they already said they're fixing that.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
This image shows about 2.2/2.8 torso/leg ratio, which is pretty much perfect. Only problem with the torso is that boobs are somewhat too large, making the rest of the torso appear small. But they already said they're fixing that.
I would disagree: while recognizing that leg/torso ratio varies greatly in humans (especially when gender and ethnicity are taken into account) I think a somewhat longer torso would be preferable, especially for the trooper models. The heroes who are all bespoke, their proportions seem fine.
In fairness, it seems rather silly that they used a figure with a large rifle covering the midsection. It makes this evaluation unnecessarily problematic.
These recent 3d sculpts are making me rethink some of the stuff I was wanting. Where are you guys finding these? I want to check out the other troopers I was thinking of getting to make sure they're not something I'd end up regretting.
I still don't get your antipathy towards making a couple of plastic kits in addition to the restic kits. More options are better, not worse.
The whole "plastic" thing they teased at the start seems to have been backpedalled away from, with the recent comment about essentially using restic for the troops. It might have been one of their ONE MEEELION DOLLARS pipe-dream options. To the naysayers on plastic holding detail, I suggest a look at GW's kits (the recent-er, the more detailed) and Dreamforge's Eisenkern. On the other hand, it appears the tooling cost can vary wildly, with the amount of stuff that Dreamforge got/is getting tooled for $120k or so, versus the still-very-expensive quotes that got thrown around earlier. Add in the fact that these guys are doing a truckload of sculpts, and it simply may not be affordable/feasible for them to do our lovely preferred hard plastic at this stage.
Azazelx wrote: The whole "plastic" thing they teased at the start seems to have been backpedalled away from
It always sounded like a vague back-up plan and not really like a tease:
LnR wrote:We split the casting between two foundries: One in metal and one in resin, so that neither gets overwhelmed with volume should this KS exceed expectations. And if this Kickstarter was to go extremely well, we also have back-up plans for injected plastics.
They shouldn't have mentioned it at all if they weren't likely to follow through. They also should have and still need to spell out their materials in big bold fething letters on the main page of the KS, since there's still apparently endless confusion about whether they are using metal, plastic, resin, or restic.
I mean, it's pretty clear to me that its metal for the heroes and restic for the troops, but it keeps coming up every other page, and frankly it couldn't hurt to have the materials for each figure category listed on the front page.
Heroes
Command
Troops
Heavies
Support
Bikes
Mecha
Because clarity is a good thing while confusion is a bad thing.
Azazelx wrote: To the naysayers on plastic holding detail, I suggest a look at GW's kits (the recent-er, the more detailed) and Dreamforge's Eisenkern.
Like the dark elf sorceress, female vampires and sisters of avalon whose breasts sides are rather flat because doing otherwise would need undercuts (the sorceress in particular has her face on a separate part because of it), like the high elf chariot whose lions inner fingers are non existent because doing otherwise needs undercuts, like the ever present purity seals and odd cable thing on all space marine feet because not having it would requite an undercut?
Plastic main problem and why it cannot do organic forms and dynamic poses (unless it is split in a billion parts) is that it cannot have undercuts, it may have great detail and the fingers on the vampiresses hands are a good example on how good detail it may hold, but it means nothing if it cannot hold the forms you want it to and produces models that are essentially posed as if they are pressed together.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
This image shows about 2.2/2.8 torso/leg ratio, which is pretty much perfect. Only problem with the torso is that boobs are somewhat too large, making the rest of the torso appear small. But they already said they're fixing that.
Whatever the case, it put me off ordering any of them for now.
And this is a problem for multi-part, multi-pose troops, how? Look at the Dark Eldar plastics for example.
In case you're confused, I'm not suggesting that the mono-pose heroes should be done in plastic, but for multi-part troopers, it would be ideal, if it were affordable. I don't see the issue with the Sisters of Avalorn? Breasts not distinctive enough for you? They're wearing armour. Not every model needs to have huge, ridiculous boob-cup armour like Brunhilde or the previewed heavies.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I thought I had clearly illustrated that and no I am not objecting to more leg space, I even made images with 3,5 and 4 heads legs I am objecting to 2 heads torso.
That head doesn't look like it fits properly in the helmet, but even more concerning is the amount of neck space under each chin and the fluffy hair you include in each "head unit" you measure.
i hope they will drop off those winged star on the helmets,
I prefer the helmet from the concept art + an blank area on the helmet is beter for customising ours army
What is my issue with the sisters of avalon? well they may be wearing armour, that still does not mean they have a normal looking side, sure not follow the contour of the breasts side, but the armour should be curving inwards not extend outwards of the body.
GW may have a nice technology with plastics it may have managed to get nice computer assisted sprew layout which crams more in the available real estate and more cavities on the sprew, but the main issues with plastics, no undercuts remain.
Edit the neck space is two humongous pixels, feel free to add 4 pixels to the equation, the fluffy hair have been accounted for.
What is my issue with the sisters of avalon? well they may be wearing armour, that still does not mean they have a normal looking side, sure not follow the contour of the breasts side, but the armour should be curving inwards not extend outwards of the body.
GW may have a nice technology with plastics it may have managed to get nice computer assisted sprew layout which crams more in the available real estate and more cavities on the sprew, but the main issues with plastics, no undercuts remain.
Edit the neck space is two humongous pixels, feel free to add 4 pixels to the equation, the fluffy hair have been accounted for.
I'll be completely honest here, most people will never notice. And on the table, you'll almost never see those undercuts unless you closely observe them.
For the heroes and special characters? Sure, give me the cool stuff. They'll be given more attention on the table.
But for the rank and file troopers? I can live without some underboob to get cheaper minis
BrookM wrote: I'm sure if the mini is resin, restic, whateverin, you can easily remove it.
For one figure or five figures its easy, but when talking about an army its no longer really "easy".
Detail and proportions on the concept art helmet are much nicer than the render and I think overall, the comments have supported this. Would be much easier for RH to do the mods in the 3D file rather then have us have to mod each fig...
) nothing is easier.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but is there some kind of additional information I'm lacking? I'm not attacking you, I'm just puzzled.
