Alpharius wrote: IIf there is no real Inquisition element to things, I won't be fielding a SoB army, but I'm really happy for everyone who has waited a long time for all of this.
There won't be (unfortunately, in a way) because these days GW will write a codex even for the tiniest niche faction, so there's really no reason to have the Inquisition in an Ecclesiarchy codex.
Of course there's also that little problem with the current designers apparently thinking Inquisition has no place in 40k. Something like that might get in the way a little bit, too.
I've been meaning to convert a new Inquisitor for ages, but it's just so damn hard to guess the exact combination of exotic wargear every single Inquisitor in the galaxy will use once GW does get around to giving the Inquisition some love.
I wouldn't object to getting baldy from the Psychic Awakening video. I like her. Well, her look anyway. She's a bit hysterical there. Just because there's this little Chaos incursion going on way over there in the background, hardly in sight of anyone. Kind of points to a lack of faith in the Emperor.
You see that? People like that have no place in a Sisters book. Come on! Lack. Of. Faith. That's just not a good fit.
Gw's current designers:
Things that belong in 40k -Wulfen
-Logan Grimnar on Stormrider
-Centurions
-Cut Xenos Into Pieces, This is my Lightning Claw Shrike
-Call of Duty: Modern Space Marine VII
-GK Baby Carrier
-Noblebright Bananalads on golden spacebikes
-Maurice the Space Cowboy who can oneshot dudes in power armor with contemptuous ease
Things that don't belong in 40k
-The inquisition.
I mean, think about it. It's so silly, right? The inquisition. Who came up with that. What are they doing on the battlefield? They should be inquisiting.
Irbis wrote: Yeah, it's not like they released anything for them, such as Eisenhorn and Greyfax recently... Oh wait
But as a faction the Inquisition is on lifesupport. The indexes have not been in print for a long time and are effectively going away. And those Index rules utterly sucked anyway. They haven't gotten as much as a WD article. And of course there is no generic plastic models for them at all. It is my favourite faction so this worries me.
Irbis wrote: Yeah, it's not like they released anything for them, such as Eisenhorn and Greyfax recently... Oh wait
I will not rest until I have a 10-man multipart jokaero kit, so that I might build my ultimate APEpocalypse army made up only of joakaero.
until then I shall smugly sneer every time GW releases something and says everyone has a reason to be excited.
"Everyone, heh, so you're saying we apocalypse only Jokaero players have something to be excited for?"
Also, on a slightly more serious side-note, the release of Inquisitor Grayfax...that was an edition ago at this point, yeah? And it's not like as a whole, the models from those little triumvirate boxes have done particularly great usability wise.
All the Ynnari have been shuffled, shunted, nerfed, noodled, and seem to have been filed away in a drawer labeled "our worst idea ever" to rot.
Grayfax is similarly just chilling in an index-only faction with no other plastic buddies to play with and no easy way to fit her in any army.
Cypher is...well...samesies there.
Random Gray Knight Duder...whatever his name was, does he even still have rules?
Belligerent Carl, Celestine and Guilliman are the only three out of the 9 models from those box sets at the end of 7th that really found a place in the game. As a way to introduce characters to the game, I can't call the triumvirates a success at all.
Alpharius wrote: IIf there is no real Inquisition element to things, I won't be fielding a SoB army, but I'm really happy for everyone who has waited a long time for all of this.
Of course there's also that little problem with the current designers apparently thinking Inquisition has no place in 40k. Something like that might get in the way a little bit, too.
My favourite bit about that was on Saturday they stood up and said that inquisition with there black powder looking weapons and general style did not fit 40k, then on Sunday they released the Rouge Trader Captain Codpiece and his epic moustache completely contradicting themselves.
Given the fact that we haven't heard any rumours or seen any hints regarding new units or rules, am I the only one who is starting to have a sinking feeling about this. I mean, I have been playing SoB since early Codex: Witchhunter and so by now I am use to disappointments concerning the sisters... That in combination with the new, and improved C:SM 2.0 gets me worried that when it comes to being power armoured bolter infantry, we will just be blown out of the water.
Irbis wrote: Yeah, it's not like they released anything for them, such as Eisenhorn and Greyfax recently... Oh wait
But as a faction the Inquisition is on lifesupport. The indexes have not been in print for a long time and are effectively going away. And those Index rules utterly sucked anyway. They haven't gotten as much as a WD article. And of course there is no generic plastic models for them at all. It is my favourite faction so this worries me.
In an age where GW have developed plastic Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults and Sisters of Battle along with the most recent revelation of a plastic Howling Banshee aspect warrior for Eldar I'm fairly certain, at this point, that it's only a matter of time before the Inquisition gets it's turn. Forgeworld is even selling a resin Squat for Necromunda. Some bright spark in Nottingham seems to have figured out the company has 30+ years worth of background material to plunder and update and they seem to be working their way through it, albeit very slowly. The Inquisition will not be forgotten.
I would be on board with the Army Box if it ended up at $150ish. It has less models than Shadowspear, instead it has a codex.
But judging from the Start Collecting boxes, and the BSF Escalation price, the Sisters army box will be $200 at least.
Its got double the models of any Powered Armor SC.
The distinct lack of Inquisition (my favorite faction also, along with witch hunters and warrior priests in fantasy/AoS) is disturbing. They just keep showing up as really important characters in all the fluff, but are simply abandoned on the tabletop.
Inquisitors can be extremely powerful individuals. Eisenhorn and Ravenor are powerful psykers, and before the ravages of age and battle, Eisenhorn was a deadly swordsman (and still is physically powerful due to bionics). Their retinues are deady soldiers, spies, and assassins, on par with Scions and Execution Force assassins.
To say that Inquisition has no place in 40k is positively BAFFLING. Do they read their own fluff?
GW being GW will inflate the price of the box beyond reasonable. Any limited edition aspect might push it beyond realistically justifiable. But we'll have to wait and see. Box art sure is lovely.
I mean I want the box to cost less than 'the price of the models separately' + 'the price of the normal edition of the codex'. If it is more than that, then it is a clear no go for me, regardless of how pretty the box art might be.
In an age where GW have developed plastic Deathwatch, Genestealer Cults and Sisters of Battle along with the most recent revelation of a plastic Howling Banshee aspect warrior for Eldar I'm fairly certain, at this point, that it's only a matter of time before the Inquisition gets it's turn. Forgeworld is even selling a resin Squat for Necromunda. Some bright spark in Nottingham seems to have figured out the company has 30+ years worth of background material to plunder and update and they seem to be working their way through it, albeit very slowly. The Inquisition will not be forgotten.
Hopefully they are working on a new, simpler, 32mm version of the Inquisitor RPG...
Cronch wrote: Inquisition as an organization really shouldn't be present on tabletop.
Of course they should. Not as a full army, but allies and leaders of other Imperial armies. We have bloody Primarchs running around FFS!
Given that Cronch doesn't want superheavies either, the odds that he approves of 40k primarchs on the table is pretty low, so not much of a counter argument.
I'd add aircraft to the list of things that don't belong in '28mm' 40k, along with superheavies, primarchs and inquisitors.
Back to squad based game with a bare handful of vehicles. Though amusingly, Inquisitors are much more tolerable at the old battle sizes of 1st/2nd edition.
Back to squad based game with a bare handful of vehicles. Though amusingly, Inquisitors are much more tolerable at the old battle sizes of 1st/2nd edition.
But the Inquisitors work in either size. In the old style small size, the army can be a full Inquisitorial warband. In big modern armies the Inquisitor is a supreme leader with his retinue of bodyguards and advisers, the rest of the army being something they have commandeered.
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EnTyme wrote: I think I accidentally stumbled into a thread titled "Complaining about Inquisition". Are the mods just asleep or something?
Fair. Though the Witch Hunters did share a codex with the SoB at some point, and that's why they're associated for many people. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to use these new SoB for a 3rd edition style Witch Hunter army.
Cronch wrote: Inquisition as an organization really shouldn't be present on tabletop.
Of course they should. Not as a full army, but allies and leaders of other Imperial armies. We have bloody Primarchs running around FFS!
Given that Cronch doesn't want superheavies either, the odds that he approves of 40k primarchs on the table is pretty low, so not much of a counter argument.
I'd add aircraft to the list of things that don't belong in '28mm' 40k, along with superheavies, primarchs and inquisitors.
Back to squad based game with a bare handful of vehicles. Though amusingly, Inquisitors are much more tolerable at the old battle sizes of 1st/2nd edition.
One of those things is not like the others.
(Loyalist)Primarchs are thematically inappropriate. Superheavies and aircraft are mechanically inappropriate, outside of "special modes" like a scenario centred around them or Apocalypse.
Inquisitors are no more or less mechanically appropriate than any other human character, so they fit in fine. They're also absolutely thematically appropriate, and have been depicted commanding armies and participating in battles loads of times."Inquisitors don't belong in 40K" isn't actually a thing, it's a flimsy justification they're trying to peddle because nobody at the Studio is presently interested in doing Inquisition, and for some mad reason GW still operate on a whim-based development schedule unless the Suits step in an give them a direct instruction to pull the finger out(see: Sisters). The only reason we're seeing Squats in Necromunda is Andy Hoare & co like Squats. The moment someone at the Studio gets a hankering for Inquisition, or they hire someone who'll champion the faction, or the Suits step in and say "make that", then Inquisition will miraculously belong in 40K again.
Agusto wrote: Given the fact that we haven't heard any rumours or seen any hints regarding new units or rules, am I the only one who is starting to have a sinking feeling about this. I mean, I have been playing SoB since early Codex: Witchhunter and so by now I am use to disappointments concerning the sisters... That in combination with the new, and improved C:SM 2.0 gets me worried that when it comes to being power armoured bolter infantry, we will just be blown out of the water.
There are hints at new units and rules though, the penitent engine flamers look twin linked and there are 3 models unnaccounted for in the new box set.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: GW being GW will inflate the price of the box beyond reasonable. Any limited edition aspect might push it beyond realistically justifiable. But we'll have to wait and see. Box art sure is lovely.
GW generally prices 'box sets' very fairly. The multipart kits after...not so much.
EnTyme wrote: I think I accidentally stumbled into a thread titled "Complaining about Inquisition". Are the mods just asleep or something?
I was.
So - let's get back to drooling over the pretty new toys, and leave the debates about the merits of Inquisition armies and the arguing over links to Facebook comments for elsewhere, hmm?
Thus far I'm thinking of grabbing the box. The rules at this stage are a Russian roulette, won't know till the trigger is pulled. Hopefully the rules will be good but I'm sure like trailers for comedy movies, he will only preview the good bits.
That aside, I want the box for that Pengines to fill out my squadron like I've always wanted.
The ceremonial Cannoness will be good for my fluffy head of the order.
More sisters is always good but I really hope there's a meltagun in there.
Mistress is boss and look forward to having a second to run larger squads of repentia.
The repentia....I'm going to have to commission someone t o fix those with greenstuff torn robes because....oof.
Gonna grab 2 Hospitaller, one to put on small base and give that scenic base to Celestine. Other will be a Cannoness Hospitaller.
That will probably eat the funds I've set aside for them.
Voss wrote: Expect previews towards the end of october, both rules and box contents.
It won't be complete Russian roulette.
I seriously doubt that they'll preview the things we actually want to look at. Probably just get rules for the models we have seen so far. PenEngine rules could certainly see being fixed as its a definite stinker unit. I hope the book is for sale outside the box as I don't need any of the models. This entire release is going to come down to rules. The models will sell sure, but craptastic rules will have them sitting the sidelines. The Index helped, the Beta certainly didn't.
Voss wrote: Expect previews towards the end of october, both rules and box contents.
It won't be complete Russian roulette.
I seriously doubt that they'll preview the things we actually want to look at. Probably just get rules for the models we have seen so far. PenEngine rules could certainly see being fixed as its a definite stinker unit. I hope the book is for sale outside the box as I don't need any of the models. This entire release is going to come down to rules. The models will sell sure, but craptastic rules will have them sitting the sidelines. The Index helped, the Beta certainly didn't.
Yeah, can't speak to (or care about) any of that. There _will_ be previews. Probably two weeks of previews (and likely all the things will be in pictures. It does them no good to hide models they want to sell, and such behavior has zero precedent). And the stuff that isn't covered officially will be covered by people outside GW- I can't remember the last time a release was a mystery in either kits or rules.
Crimson wrote: My worry is that the limited edition codex will inflate the price of the box beyond reasonable.
A case of false scarcity, surely? I can't imagine that there's anything in that box that won't go into general release.
One assumes it'll be the same "false scarcity" as any other limited edition codex, printed in such numbers GW is confident they will be able to sell. Just in the case of Sisters the codex comes wrapped in a box with some plastic models.
The concern is more a general GW one where the box that GW advertises as made to "reward die hard fans" ends up with no or too small a discount for the models themselves, something you would hope is there as a selling point of such an army box to get people to buy in, while including not just any codex but a limited edition one will be used as an excuse to ask for an unduly high price that will eat up any discount the models may have gotten and that will end up buying the individual model boxes plus the codex cheaper than that box. May or may not happen this way, but at this point we just can't rule it out.
Voss wrote: There _will_ be previews. Probably two weeks of previews (and likely all the things will be in pictures.
Nobody said there wouldn't be previews. Just that there likely won't be anything in them worthwhile about the rules. So the codex will be like russian roulette. Especially if you have to buy a box of mini's you don't want or need to get the limited edition of.
BrookM wrote: Loving the look and feel of this one in particular. I though I was safe from this release, but it's hard to say no to a Seraphim with guns akimbo in a John Woo pose, only thing missing is the doves flying everywhere.
That is the best of them.
I do prefer metal models, but on flight stands this can be tricky.
Voss wrote: There _will_ be previews. Probably two weeks of previews (and likely all the things will be in pictures.
Nobody said there wouldn't be previews. Just that there likely won't be anything in them worthwhile about the rules. So the codex will be like russian roulette. Especially if you have to buy a box of mini's you don't want or need to get the limited edition of.
Depends. I'm under the impression that reviewers have their copy before pre-order go up and that they may post them on the day of pre-orders. Unless GW didn't make enough of the box you should get an idea of what's in the codex and still be able to put a pre-order fairly early on.
You're not going to get a complete idea of the codex from GW leading up to the pre-order, just scraps and a couple of highlights that will likely not do you any good in isolation.
BrookM wrote: Loving the look and feel of this one in particular. I though I was safe from this release, but it's hard to say no to a Seraphim with guns akimbo in a John Woo pose, only thing missing is the doves flying everywhere.
That is the best of them.
I do prefer metal models, but on flight stands this can be tricky.
It seems pretty easy to convert but I am afraid to think what the lack of any optional weapons might mean with this current no-model-no-rules insanity.
I am intrigued with how the head is designed to fit into the Canoness. I wonder if the Battle Sisters/Seraphim are designed in a similar manner because it is easy to see that those are limited sculpts with different heads (helmeted and unhelmeted).
If so, that would add a lot of customization to limited poses.
BrookM wrote: Loving the look and feel of this one in particular. I though I was safe from this release, but it's hard to say no to a Seraphim with guns akimbo in a John Woo pose, only thing missing is the doves flying everywhere.
That is the best of them.
I do prefer metal models, but on flight stands this can be tricky.
That is a gorgeous model. Wish it was a Canoness.
She would require 700% more bling to be a canoness!
BrookM wrote: Loving the look and feel of this one in particular. I though I was safe from this release, but it's hard to say no to a Seraphim with guns akimbo in a John Woo pose, only thing missing is the doves flying everywhere.
That is the best of them.
I do prefer metal models, but on flight stands this can be tricky.
That is a gorgeous model. Wish it was a Canoness.
She would require 700% more bling to be a canoness!
Well quite. How would she even be recognised as such without the Holy Nipple-Tassels of Divine Authority?
BrookM wrote: Loving the look and feel of this one in particular. I though I was safe from this release, but it's hard to say no to a Seraphim with guns akimbo in a John Woo pose, only thing missing is the doves flying everywhere.
That is the best of them.
I do prefer metal models, but on flight stands this can be tricky.
That is a gorgeous model. Wish it was a Canoness.
She would require 700% more bling to be a canoness!
It seems pretty easy to convert but I am afraid to think what the lack of any optional weapons might mean with this current no-model-no-rules insanity.
Oh dag bloody nabbit, what moron in design made the stupid bloody plasma pistol part of the actual model!? This ticks me off to no end. Now I have to butcher that model and likely make that area look like garbage to get rid of that nonsense.
Well, there is good chance that in the new codex all Canonesses must be armed with a plasma pistol, a power sword and a command stick, so there probably isn't a pressing reason for removing it...
Voss wrote: There _will_ be previews. Probably two weeks of previews (and likely all the things will be in pictures.
Nobody said there wouldn't be previews. Just that there likely won't be anything in them worthwhile about the rules. So the codex will be like russian roulette. Especially if you have to buy a box of mini's you don't want or need to get the limited edition of.
Fortunately thanks to third party reviewers, we'll have access to near perfect information about the codex as soon as it goes up for pre-order. Perks of the digital age.
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Crimson wrote: Well, there is good chance that in the new codex all Canonesses must be armed with a plasma pistol, a power sword and a command stick, so there probably isn't a pressing reason for removing it...
Doubtful. They'll like keep the options available to the metal canoness as well, give or take a few things.
Sersi wrote: Just click the image for the larger size.
Spoiler:
They made the old metal ones into plastic basically, Why no redesign? these sisters are iconic but just so dated, sad really. I would love hot nuns with guns, looks like it was a good idea to buy the Raging Heroes stuff now.
Next time, use spoiler tags when quoting such a massive post - BrookM
I mean for gods sake atleast ditch the bob haircut. Give them veils or long hair or something. I think a mix of veils and if they are not wearing veils then long free flowing hair that you could have waving in the wind. But I am not really sure GW knows what women are.
Long wavy hair would get in the way in a combat situation. There's a reason women in the military put their hair in a tight bun or cut it short.
Personally I like the look of the plastic Sisters models. So much so that I'm probably going to sell my entire Chaos collection to raise money to buy a bunch of them.
Long hair doesn't make practical sense when you're wearing (or have the chance to wear) a helmet. Hair of any significant volume or length will get in the way.
I mean for gods sake atleast ditch the bob haircut. Give them veils or long hair or something. I think a mix of veils and if they are not wearing veils then long free flowing hair that you could have waving in the wind. But I am not really sure GW knows what women are.
The haircut is an iconic part of the Sister's design. Getting rid of it would be like getting rid of Space marine shoulder pads or Eldar cone helmets.
Sersi wrote: Just click the image for the larger size.
[...pictures...]
They made the old metal ones into plastic basically, Why no redesign? these sisters are iconic but just so dated, sad really. I would love hot nuns with guns, looks like it was a good idea to buy the Raging Heroes stuff now.
Because Adepta Sororitas are not and should not be boring stereotypical oversexualized "hot nuns". If you don't like the premise behind the Sisters of Battle, well, other companies may have the kind of thing you're interested in. But you can hardly be surprised that the thing they weren't before isn't the thing they're now. And thank the Emperor for that.
Souleater wrote: I love the Bob haircut, but I'm pleased to see there are other styles in these kits.
My only sadness is that I don't think these heads really scale well with Stormcast as I would live to swap between the ranges
Depending on your disposition Sisters heads may fit reasonably well on female Sigmarine bodies. They'll be around 75% to 80% of the head size of a female Sigmarine, which may look a little small if you prefer GW's overblown proportions, but may work if you can get behind more realistic proportions.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: But you can hardly be surprised that the thing they weren't before isn't the thing they're now. And thank the Emperor for that.
Repentias didn't get lucky enough to thank the Emperor for anything, unfortunately.
I'm glad that at least normal Sisters maintain their look after the update.
Crimson wrote: Well, there is good chance that in the new codex all Canonesses must be armed with a plasma pistol, a power sword and a command stick, so there probably isn't a pressing reason for removing it...
Sersi wrote: Just click the image for the larger size.
[...pictures...]
They made the old metal ones into plastic basically, Why no redesign? these sisters are iconic but just so dated, sad really. I would love hot nuns with guns, looks like it was a good idea to buy the Raging Heroes stuff now.
Because Adepta Sororitas are not and should not be boring stereotypical oversexualized "hot nuns". If you don't like the premise behind the Sisters of Battle, well, other companies may have the kind of thing you're interested in. But you can hardly be surprised that the thing they weren't before isn't the thing they're now. And thank the Emperor for that.
Sisters were perfect aesthetically and just needed a technology update and they got that. Things like raging heroes (at least their ridiculous 'battle sisters' that have nonsensical high heels and poses that are hilariously dumb) are porn parody versions of real battle sisters mostly meant for people who can't handle female models they can't fap to.
Hey look on the bright side sisters at least have a reason for conformity. They can write fluff about how saint plaspista sacrificed herself in a flaming pyre so now all canonesses vow to get hot in her memory.
Orks have models that all come with an identical weapon called a "Kustom" weapon, which is always the same and has no customizanility.
Sersi wrote: Just click the image for the larger size.
[...pictures...]
They made the old metal ones into plastic basically, Why no redesign? these sisters are iconic but just so dated, sad really. I would love hot nuns with guns, looks like it was a good idea to buy the Raging Heroes stuff now.
Because Adepta Sororitas are not and should not be boring stereotypical oversexualized "hot nuns". If you don't like the premise behind the Sisters of Battle, well, other companies may have the kind of thing you're interested in. But you can hardly be surprised that the thing they weren't before isn't the thing they're now. And thank the Emperor for that.
Sisters were perfect aesthetically and just needed a technology update and they got that. Things like raging heroes (at least their ridiculous 'battle sisters' that have nonsensical high heels and poses that are hilariously dumb) are porn parody versions of real battle sisters mostly meant for people who can't handle female models they can't fap to.
I personally prescribe to the "if I don't feel a quiver when I look at the tiny 28mm plastic figure, then it ain't a woman."
Luckily given my personal preferences the tervigon provides all the gratification I need.
So don't shame others for their desires! If 007 wakes up sweaty to the idea of hot nuns resolving their high heeled close combat attacks on him on the charge, power to him!
Sorry I stand behind the belief that sex sells, when has anything GW or really any gaming company done that has been for practicality or functionality.
I wasn't looking for them to go full on Raging Heroes style but something, really anything restamping metal molds into plastic ones and then dropping probably a $50 USD pricetag for probably a box of 5 really doesn't say much.
They made people wait along while for this and I honestly feel they are selling the consumer short is all. I mean how many years has passed just to basically transfer over is really an injustice. I could be wrong looking at the pics I have seen maybe there is more to it then that.
If i was a die hard sister lover i would be pretty hurt. Though maybe not so much as i could still use all my other models. Luckily I am a hot nuns with guns kinda guy so let people drop their money on it.
I am betting something over or around $200 USD for the army box and probably around $50 for 5. It's the GW way after all.
If you want sexy nuns with guns, just go to Hitman.
ERJAK wrote: Sisters were perfect aesthetically and just needed a technology update and they got that. Things like raging heroes (at least their ridiculous 'battle sisters' that have nonsensical high heels and poses that are hilariously dumb) are porn parody versions of real battle sisters mostly meant for people who can't handle female models they can't fap to.
And there just simply couldn't possibly be another reason why people might like those minis, right?
angel of death 007 wrote: I wasn't looking for them to go full on Raging Heroes style but something, really anything restamping metal molds into plastic ones and then dropping probably a $50 USD pricetag for probably a box of 5 really doesn't say much.
If i was a die hard sister lover i would be pretty hurt.
The response from sisters players on the 'restamped' models has generally been positive.
After all the existing style is what people originally bought into, not heels and stripper poses or a shirt and shorts east german shotput team.
Which is a belief that is very often directly contradicted by reality. Sex only sells sexy stuff, and sexy stuff isn't the thing that sells better. I mean, how many of those were sold with sex?
No, if you were a die hard SoB lover, you'd be pretty happy that Sisters are still the Sisters you are a fan of, rather than being transformed into something else that you are not a fan of.
Personally the stuff they decided to change from the metals is what ticked me off, some to far different degrees than others. heck, i was happy with the models they decided to reveal with the box set.. with almost no complaints.
that said. wheres celestians, how will the rules be, and is there anything new model wise is still gonna shape this. not much longer to wait now. can't be certain ill be along for this ride.
angel of death 007 wrote: Sorry I stand behind the belief that sex sells, when has anything GW or really any gaming company done that has been for practicality or functionality.
angel of death 007 wrote: I would love hot nuns with guns, looks like it was a good idea to buy the Raging Heroes stuff now.
Maybe GW aren't the right fetish model company for you, dude.
Which is a belief that is very often directly contradicted by reality.
Sex only sells sexy stuff, and sexy stuff isn't the thing that sells better.
I mean, how many of those were sold with sex?
No, if you were a die hard SoB lover, you'd be pretty happy that Sisters are still the Sisters you are a fan of, rather than being transformed into something else that you are not a fan of.
It's even more ridiculous that this is being said about GW, a company known for both being really bad at "sexy", and having sales based almost entirely on rule of cool.
I am glad I decided to stop by this thread today. Angel of death 007 makes me feel alive.
To flip it on its head, if GW were to release new Space Marines (No Primaris jokes please) that completely flipped their aesthetic on their head, gave them bare muscled arms and each one a high fashion haircut (No Shrike jokes either), and a slightly more prominent codpeice, the majority of people would be up in arms.
I'm not saying they can't be a little creative with the redesign to the Sisters, but they should stick within the parameters of what makes a Sister a Sister. I'm glad they don't seem to be walking around in improbable bionic heels. I'm happy they haven't got an impractical sized chest and an anatomically incorrect waist.
I think a telling sign that people prefer the Sisters to maintain their original style is looking back to the absolute insanity that was the Repentia reveal. People were losing their minds that the Repentia were not barefoot, not naked, not covered in all sorts of questionable and probably bondage paraphernalia. And ultimately they hadn't even changed THAT much about the aesthetic. If they went Hitman-nuns-with-guns on the rest of the release, could you imagine the community backlash.
Not to mention, like it or not, GW is a family business. Hooker chic female soldiers probably aren't going to be well received by little Timmy's Mother. In today's society, a company as large as GW shouldn't open themselves up to that sort of public backlash.
TLDR: Don't try and fix something that isn't broken, and sweeping assumptions can be wrong.
ghosty wrote: I am glad I decided to stop by this thread today. Angel of death 007 makes me feel alive.
To flip it on its head, if GW were to release new Space Marines (No Primaris jokes please) that completely flipped their aesthetic on their head, gave them bare muscled arms and each one a high fashion haircut (No Shrike jokes either), and a slightly more prominent codpeice, the majority of people would be up in arms.
I'm not saying they can't be a little creative with the redesign to the Sisters, but they should stick within the parameters of what makes a Sister a Sister. I'm glad they don't seem to be walking around in improbable bionic heels. I'm happy they haven't got an impractical sized chest and an anatomically incorrect waist.
I think a telling sign that people prefer the Sisters to maintain their original style is looking back to the absolute insanity that was the Repentia reveal. People were losing their minds that the Repentia were not barefoot, not naked, not covered in all sorts of questionable and probably bondage paraphernalia. And ultimately they hadn't even changed THAT much about the aesthetic. If they went Hitman-nuns-with-guns on the rest of the release, could you imagine the community backlash.
Not to mention, like it or not, GW is a family business. Hooker chic female soldiers probably aren't going to be well received by little Timmy's Mother. In today's society, a company as large as GW shouldn't open themselves up to that sort of public backlash.
TLDR: Don't try and fix something that isn't broken, and sweeping assumptions can be wrong.
Remember when PETA generated media interest by asking GW to sculpt less fur and animal hides onto their models?
ghosty wrote: In today's society, a company as large as GW shouldn't open themselves up to that sort of public backlash.
What company should open themselves to any sort of public backlash?
I'd suggest that there are plenty of public backlashes that are fine to open yourself to. McDonald's shouldn't worry about backlash from PETA because PETA don't enjoy cheesed cow grindings on bread.
Gillette should worry about a backlash from men because men historically were the target demographic for their shaving products.
ghosty wrote: I think a telling sign that people prefer the Sisters to maintain their original style is looking back to the absolute insanity that was the Repentia reveal. People were losing their minds that the Repentia were not barefoot, not naked, not covered in all sorts of questionable and probably bondage paraphernalia.
The problem with repentia is that nothing about them matches the sisters original style, or current style, or indeed any style. They have gym clothes, marine-style plugs, and no aesthetic connections to the rest of the line or existing imagery other than the odd fluer-de-lys. If GW had released them without the iconography as necromunda models or failed marine initiates no-one would have been the wiser.
angel of death 007 wrote: I mean how many years has passed just to basically transfer over is really an injustice.
What you've missed is that the time passed is precisely so that the existing designs could be transferred to plastic.
The studio (or specifically Jes Goodwin) has always been staunchly against the idea of redesigning sisters, and they've said as much on multiple occasions. And until now, the technology GW were using just wasn't up to rendering this design in plastic.
We're getting plastic sisters now precisely because GW can now produce plastic models that look like the metal ones.
insaniak wrote: The studio (or specifically Jes Goodwin) has always been my against the idea of redesigning sisters, and they've said as much on multiple occasions. And until now, the technology GW were using just wasn't up to rendering this design in plastic.
Given the recent reveal, I wonder if that same approach applies to Jes' Aspect Warrior designs?
insaniak wrote: The studio (or specifically Jes Goodwin) has always been my against the idea of redesigning sisters, and they've said as much on multiple occasions. And until now, the technology GW were using just wasn't up to rendering this design in plastic.
Given the recent reveal, I wonder if that same approach applies to Jes' Aspect Warrior designs?
None of the Aspects have anything particularly tricky, design-wise... ultimately, they're all just variations on the standard Guardian design with added bling, and in some cases slightly heavier armour. My guess there would be that Jes was opposed to dual kits to avoid homogenising the designs, and that none of the Aspects would have sold particularly well since 2nd edition, so pushing that many different plastic kits past the bean counters would have been tricky. Their time has come now with whatever it is that's allowed GW to ramp up their plastic production so drastically in the last couple of years. So now that they've shown that they're clearly not dropping the Aspect concept, I wouldn't be surprised to see the other Aspects following along in the near future. That's all just a guess, though.
insaniak wrote: None of the Aspects have anything particularly tricky, design-wise... ultimately, they're all just variations on the standard Guardian design with added bling, and in some cases slightly heavier armour.
I wasn't really considering any of the designs to be tricky in the same way Sisters garb is, but more the designs themselves are considered 'sacred' in a sense, in that if they're going to remake them then they're going to look exactly what they should look like.
I always thought it was interesting that after they changed the design of Aspects in 3rd Ed (some more than others, like the Reapers) they immediately went back to more 2nd Ed styles when they did them again in, I think, 4th or 5th.
I think it's more than Jes being opposed to dual kits (although I see your point there, however much I'd like them to redo the 6 Aspects in 3 boxes).
Or it could just be, like you said, that with their increased plastics tech they can actually dedicate some time to updating older kits into better plastic kits rather than just doing new things (the Chaos player in me is very happy about that - I waited for those plastic Flesh Hounds for years!).
I always thought it was interesting that after they changed the design of Aspects in 3rd Ed (some more than others, like the Reapers) they immediately went back to more 2nd Ed styles when they did them again in, I think, 4th or 5th.
I might be misremembering the timeline, but the switch back in style would have been about when Gary Morley left and Jes took over the oversight of the sculptors, wouldn't it?
The 3rd ed Aspects were mostly done by Juan Diaz, who was trained by Morley and initially mimicked his style.
But yes, I certainly agree that any eventual plastic designs were destined to stick fairly closely to Jes' originals, whatever the actual reason for them taking so long to do it.
Turns out vegan hippies weren't buying a lot of tabletop battle games about oppressive human supremacist regimes that kill all the things.
I'm sure they were. Most vegan hippies just understand the difference between reality and fiction.
Maybe so, but between fictional depiction and fictional endorsement? A less common skill alas. I remember being actually stunned into silence hearing one such individual ranting about the Starship Troopers movie being pro-fascist propaganda
Yodhrin wrote: Maybe so, but between fictional depiction and fictional endorsement? A less common skill alas.
What's an incredibly rare skill among "pop culture geek" people, though, is understanding the difference between when someone is talking about something you love and when someone is using something you love to talk about something else, entirely unrelated, and what you love isn't criticized, it's just used an excuse to talk about something else.
Scoop: PETA never cared about whether or not 40k models have fur on them. They just wanted to use 40k as an excuse to start a conversation about real life fur.
Turns out vegan hippies weren't buying a lot of tabletop battle games about oppressive human supremacist regimes that kill all the things.
I'm sure they were. Most vegan hippies just understand the difference between reality and fiction.
Maybe so, but between fictional depiction and fictional endorsement? A less common skill alas. I remember being actually stunned into silence hearing one such individual ranting about the Starship Troopers movie being pro-fascist propaganda
Judging by the tone of the interviews given by some of the cast at the time of release, they were oblivious to the satire of Verhoeven's take and were convinced it was some serious type of commentary.
One thing I didn't see posted (might have missed it obviously), regarding the pricing of the army box. The article stated that the codex will be a limited edition codex, so that will absolutely jack the price up. However, I'm still thinking this will make a nice Xmas gift for myself for a New Year project.
bullyboy wrote: One thing I didn't see posted (might have missed it obviously), regarding the pricing of the army box. The article stated that the codex will be a limited edition codex, so that will absolutely jack the price up. However, I'm still thinking this will make a nice Xmas gift for myself for a New Year project.
Devil's Advocate time:
The article states:
After waiting for so long, you all deserved something very special, and that’s what this Sisters of Battle Army Set delivers. This packed box kicks off your Adepta Sororitas force in style. Including a swathe of stunning new plastic models and a limited edition codex, this one is dedicated to you die-hard Sisters of Battle fans as a reward for your unwavering faith.
"Limited edition codex" here could mean a lot of different things. Given that it seems like the box has been built around this concept of "it's a way for new and existing players to kick off an army"? I don't think it will be something that "jacks the price up" like you're thinking.
I'm fully expecting the box to clock in at around $200, tops. The pack is implied to be a limited edition item in and of itself, so they're fully expecting to sell out--they likely will have a price cut built in.
"We’ll see you in a couple of weeks with another bulletin in which we’ll be taking a look at the first finished example from the upcoming fleet of Adepta Sororitas vehicles! "
bullyboy wrote: One thing I didn't see posted (might have missed it obviously), regarding the pricing of the army box. The article stated that the codex will be a limited edition codex, so that will absolutely jack the price up. However, I'm still thinking this will make a nice Xmas gift for myself for a New Year project.
Devil's Advocate time:
"Limited edition codex" here could mean a lot of different things. Given that it seems like the box has been built around this concept of "it's a way for new and existing players to kick off an army"? I don't think it will be something that "jacks the price up" like you're thinking.
I'm fully expecting the box to clock in at around $200, tops. The pack is implied to be a limited edition item in and of itself, so they're fully expecting to sell out--they likely will have a price cut built in.
Gonna repost this, because I really think some of you will be disappointed:
xttz wrote: "limited edition codex" makes me wonder if it's going to be a mini paperback codex covering just the models in the box, like the Vanguard & Daemonkin books.
Then once everyone has had a chance to get their army box painted up they'll drop the full codex and rest of the range in early 2020.
Ok that image of the sisters fighting Tau? I'm 90% sure thats the same image of the Tau fighting deathguard, just with the deathguard removed and sisters added in.
balmong7 wrote: Ok that image of the sisters fighting Tau? I'm 90% sure thats the same image of the Tau fighting deathguard, just with the deathguard removed and sisters added in.
Wait... Are you implying they reused art?
Cause I most definitely can see that the artist involved in this piece is Kevin Chin, while the one you're referring to was made by Johan Grenier...
In fact, let's look at that other piece of artwork...
In this scene, we can see the Triumph of Saint Katherine – the funeral procession of a fallen saint. A divine light is pouring down onto the consecrated body as it lies in state, and a fearsome Battle Sister has hewn down a number of heretics who foolishly sought to desecrate her remains.
I'm confuzzled.
Is it a funeral procession, or is the body lying in state? I'm not sure that you can have both at once..?
Is it supposed to be St Katherine's funeral? Why would there be Genestealer cultists attacking her funeral? Why would the Sister have red robes and not black?
So... battle sisters, seraphim, arco flagellants, penitent engine, celestine, demios rhino. Repentia still look entirely out of place style-wise.
No sign of new units or wargear other than the shield (protectiva?) in the second image. Attack cherubs perhaps.
What about the big tower thingy in the middle of the image? That could be some kind of large Screaming Bell type model, dragged/carried along by what looks like a mass of Servitors/Fraternis militia.
Also the second image could be the basis for some kind of awesome Ark of the Covenant style unit, similar to a Black Coach, where a few specialist sisters carry the ark around to buff nearby models.
balmong7 wrote: Ok that image of the sisters fighting Tau? I'm 90% sure thats the same image of the Tau fighting deathguard, just with the deathguard removed and sisters added in.
Casbyness wrote: What about the big tower thingy in the middle of the image? That could be some kind of large Screaming Bell type model, dragged/carried along by what looks like a mass of Servitors/Fraternis militia.
Could be, but to scale it would tower over a knight. Possible scenery release similar to the drill, or just background material.
When news first came out about the sisters i had no interest in them at all but now I’m really thinking about picking some up to go with my black Templar’s wip army .
Also keeping an eye out for the anvil industry’s not sisters of battle minis.
So... battle sisters, seraphim, arco flagellants, penitent engine, celestine, demios rhino. Repentia still look entirely out of place style-wise.
No sign of new units or wargear other than the shield (protectiva?) in the second image. Attack cherubs perhaps.
What about the big tower thingy in the middle of the image? That could be some kind of large Screaming Bell type model, dragged/carried along by what looks like a mass of Servitors/Fraternis militia.
Also the second image could be the basis for some kind of awesome Ark of the Covenant style unit, similar to a Black Coach, where a few specialist sisters carry the ark around to buff nearby models.
That's what I'm thinking, an ark of the covenant type piece, would be cool.
Repentia in the art don't work for me either. I'm kind of hoping the Arcoflagellant is not too good a realization of the model either. I think it could do with a little more definition. Especially the head. More cables, more integration with the drug dispenser, that sort of thing. Good to get a sneak peek of it, though.
But seriously, all I see in that picture is that the Repentia come off as a young aristocrat sorority that joined a real army to show off their neat fencing skills while looking totally in vogue in their stylish clothes. Cannot unsee. This is horrible.
In this scene, we can see the Triumph of Saint Katherine – the funeral procession of a fallen saint. A divine light is pouring down onto the consecrated body as it lies in state, and a fearsome Battle Sister has hewn down a number of heretics who foolishly sought to desecrate her remains.
I'm confuzzled.
Is it a funeral procession, or is the body lying in state? I'm not sure that you can have both at once..?
The funeral procession might be moving very, very slowly.
Or maybe Saint Katherine is lying still with heretofore unthinkable velocity.
Lord Damocles wrote: Is it supposed to be St Katherine's funeral? Why would there be Genestealer cultists attacking her funeral? Why would the Sister have red robes and not black?
Prepare to see "embellishments" added to all the existing background which shows us "what really happened".
Kind of like the Horus Heresy. Things you never wanted to know will be seen in excruciating detail, brought to you by the finest writers GW could find among its janitorial staff.
balmong7 wrote: Ok that image of the sisters fighting Tau? I'm 90% sure thats the same image of the Tau fighting deathguard, just with the deathguard removed and sisters added in.
Nah, it's the Tau fighting Vostroyans:
Segersgia wrote:
balmong7 wrote: Ok that image of the sisters fighting Tau? I'm 90% sure thats the same image of the Tau fighting deathguard, just with the deathguard removed and sisters added in.
Wait... Are you implying they reused art?
Cause I most definitely can see that the artist involved in this piece is Kevin Chin, while the one you're referring to was made by Johan Grenier...
In fact, let's look at that other piece of artwork...
So I made an unintended joke about tau always getting their gak kicked in in official artwork apparently. I was implying they reuse art assets. However, no matter how hard I look I can't find the image that is giving me this deja vu so maybe I'm just crazy. I just swear I've seen that exact pose of the fire warriors clumped in the middle of the frame before.
I like the new art, dark and baroque and very much not bright tacticool scifi like some of the primaris stuff, or too noblebright paladin looking all lawful good (or pretty women making pretty face in pretty poses). Can someone more familiar with recent GW art/dex if the “No model no rules” and “Artwork is always exactly like the models” extend to “Since you have a cool tower and an assault cherubim on the picture you can expect to put both on the table”? That would be pretty funny to have Cherubim Attack Squads, they could get into an epic showdown against grots .
The haircut on the first artwork is pretty weird though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
zend wrote: Hmmm, no power armor plugs on the repentia in that art. Looks like the sculptor did an oopsies and they rolled with it.
I don't mean to be rude but I see them on two out of the three repentias. Only the one on the left seems to miss them.
zend wrote: Hmmm, no power armor plugs on the repentia in that art. Looks like the sculptor did an oopsies and they rolled with it.
I, see, the anti-plugist flat-earthery continues. You can clearly see the plugs on their arms.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I like the new art, dark and baroque and very much not bright tacticool scifi like some of the primaris stuff, or too noblebright paladin looking all lawful good (or pretty women making pretty face in pretty poses).
Can someone more familiar with recent GW art/dex if the “No model no rules” and “Artwork is always exactly like the models” extend to “Since you have a cool tower and an assault cherubim on the picture you can expect to put both on the table”? That would be pretty funny to have Cherubim Attack Squads, they could get into an epic showdown against grots .
I would be mainly expecting the sword and shield option. I really hope that's a thing.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I like the new art, dark and baroque and very much not bright tacticool scifi like some of the primaris stuff, or too noblebright paladin looking all lawful good (or pretty women making pretty face in pretty poses).
Can someone more familiar with recent GW art/dex if the “No model no rules” and “Artwork is always exactly like the models” extend to “Since you have a cool tower and an assault cherubim on the picture you can expect to put both on the table”? That would be pretty funny to have Cherubim Attack Squads, they could get into an epic showdown against grots .
.
It really started with the chaos release. The first picture of the tiny spider monster (Urban Conquest art?) that became a model. This followed by the Arch Discordant (way in the back of artwork) and the chaos chaplain dude (in same artwork). Not saying it's a specific pattern, but the ark could really be a thing and would sit in a Sisters army quite well.
ERJAK wrote: Sisters were perfect aesthetically and just needed a technology update and they got that. Things like raging heroes (at least their ridiculous 'battle sisters' that have nonsensical high heels and poses that are hilariously dumb) are porn parody versions of real battle sisters mostly meant for people who can't handle female models they can't fap to.
I don't think that is a very fair characterization. Sure, at least some people were into the greater level of cheesecake on offer with RH, but at the time they were released the choices for modern Sisters-styld minis were the modern resin sculpts by RH - not all of which were cheesecake - vs the ancient, expensive metal ones by GW with no real promise of a plastic update in the near future.
That there would turn out to be plastic models for Sisters 4 years later wasn't predictable.
Ouze wrote: I don't think that is a very fair characterization. Sure, at least some people were into the greater level of cheesecake on offer with RH, but at the time they were released the choices for modern Sisters-styld minis were the modern resin sculpts by RH - not all of which were cheesecake - vs the ancient, expensive metal ones by GW with no real promise of a plastic update in the near future.
That there would turn out to be plastic models for Sisters 4 years later wasn't predictable.
I bought some RH not-Terminators and riders. But I put enough green stuff on them to bulk up the midsection a bit and remove the boobplate that I'm comfortable ERJAK wasn't talking about me.
Well, at risk of being called a GW sycophant, I really like everything I have seen regarding this release. The models, The Art work. Literally everything...
I wonder if we will see some new plastic war priests, Redemptor Kyrinov (One of my fav 40k models ever), or Throne of Judgement? Loved all those dudes.
ERJAK wrote: Sisters were perfect aesthetically and just needed a technology update and they got that. Things like raging heroes (at least their ridiculous 'battle sisters' that have nonsensical high heels and poses that are hilariously dumb) are porn parody versions of real battle sisters mostly meant for people who can't handle female models they can't fap to.
I don't think that is a very fair characterization. Sure, at least some people were into the greater level of cheesecake on offer with RH, but at the time they were released the choices for modern Sisters-styld minis were the modern resin sculpts by RH - not all of which were cheesecake - vs the ancient, expensive metal ones by GW with no real promise of a plastic update in the near future.
That there would turn out to be plastic models for Sisters 4 years later wasn't predictable.
This was mostly said in response to yet another person who said 'these are trash, raging heroes better 'cause sexy'. Sometimes you fight fire with fire.
Hollow wrote: Well, at risk of being called a GW sycophant, I really like everything I have seen regarding this release. The models, The Art work. Literally everything...
Honestly, I generally do too. There is nothing in here I hate in terms of the sculpts. I think the Repentia could be better, but I want to see what sprue options there are (which I suppose will be little to none), and I think once I convert the tops into ragged tabards I'll like them just fine. I even like the Cannoness collar nearly everyone seems to hate.
I'm glad I kept open some shelf space for these guys.
The only thing I don't like is how crappy that Cannonness sprue is. No alternate weapons, no alternate heads? That's just lazy. Even if the heads are swappable with the rest of the sister heads, there was plenty of room in there for a few extra bits to jazz the model up a little. It seems like even as GWS sculpts get better and better, as a modeller they seem to get more boring in terms of lack of options and posing. Not a problem specific to this release, just kind of sad this is the direction they continue to trend into.
Some nice art in there.
I love the look of those swords. Those look much much better than the sword the Cannoness has with the weird pommel bit. Shield on that sister looks cool, love the detail.
That big art...oddly, I see a lot I don't like. The repentia make me cringe, the Pengine doesn't look as big or powerful or imposing as other art of its older version. Arco looks good though.
The sister charging in with the sword has a pose that I've seen in a million space marine pics. Worst offender to me is the Seraphim who looks like she's taking a dump.
Aside from that I love the older style art feel they've got going on.
I didn't consider the saint in the background being generic- I'm certainly hoping for generic.
If a sister unit comes with shield and weapon...I dunno. Sword and board is the crusaders shtick, maul and board seems more of a dark angel one. Honestly don't know how I feel about mellee sisters when there's already oother armies that have a signature look or a battle conclave unit that fills their niche...
They look good to me - What is that flying humaniod thing in the art work? Vaguely like a chicken-cheribum-griffen-blood angel. Could work for me though! Weirdly, I thought the first picture was from a gallery I've seen here on Dakka doing kind of spiffed up classic sisters, so I think they work well with the old range.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sword and a shield huh? I wonder what that means as far as miniatures?
Absolutely nothing, 3rd edition codex had art of Sister with the same loadout, five editions later and they didn't appear even in BL books, never mind actual model, even KT or BSF one...
bullyboy wrote: It really started with the chaos release. The first picture of the tiny spider monster (Urban Conquest art?) that became a model. This followed by the Arch Discordant (way in the back of artwork) and the chaos chaplain dude (in same artwork). Not saying it's a specific pattern, but the ark could really be a thing and would sit in a Sisters army quite well.
Except that big CSM art with terminator champion with two handed flaming mace squaring off against primaris gravis captain never materialized. Ditto with honor guard chapter banner held by (primaris ?) HG ancient behind said captain. And that was centrepiece promo art, not look-and-forget codex picture, sooo...
angel of death 007 wrote: I mean how many years has passed just to basically transfer over is really an injustice.
What you've missed is that the time passed is precisely so that the existing designs could be transferred to plastic.
The studio (or specifically Jes Goodwin) has always been staunchly against the idea of redesigning sisters, and they've said as much on multiple occasions. And until now, the technology GW were using just wasn't up to rendering this design in plastic.
We're getting plastic sisters now precisely because GW can now produce plastic models that look like the metal ones.
Couldn't the same be said for all the necromunda models that were redone/ rereleased. They did modify them and they still kept more of the same style yet made the sculpts a bit better overall. Looking at the clan models from before and then the remakes I think GW did a fantastic job. I just don't see the same thing with the new SoB or whatever fake Latin name GW wants to give there stuff nowadays. When I see the sculpts a part of me was hoping for a subtle change like they did in Necromunda is all I am saying. They don't need to go all out like RH did. I am glad RH did their thing though. It both filled a gap in the aged non available metal models and gave people kind of what they wanted as it was a Kickstarter so it actually took in the opinions of their customers, unlike GW who stayed stagnent for how many years again, despite numerous people voicing their opinions, even in their massive survey. Sister's were in demand. GW ignored it. Competition made some money and now GW wants to arrive late to the party wearing yesteryears dress.
The only thing really not retro will surely be their obnoxious prices which I am sure will end up shell shocking some. I am thinking it will be to the tune of $50 USD for 5. It is amazing how nothing has remotely mentioned pricing yet? I was just hoping for a more necromunda style approach to an aged design. Call me crazy if you wish as it is just an opinion.
I wouldn't be surprised if that image of a holy procession around a dead saint becomes a set of miniatures. They'd be super characterful. Sisters wielding sword and shield would be amazing and a good way to depict Celestians.
Hollow wrote: Well, at risk of being called a GW sycophant, I really like everything I have seen regarding this release. The models, The Art work. Literally everything...
Honestly, I generally do too. There is nothing in here I hate in terms of the sculpts. I think the Repentia could be better, but I want to see what sprue options there are (which I suppose will be little to none), and I think once I convert the tops into ragged tabards I'll like them just fine. I even like the Cannoness collar nearly everyone seems to hate.
I'm glad I kept open some shelf space for these guys.
The only thing I don't like is how crappy that Cannonness sprue is. No alternate weapons, no alternate heads? That's just lazy. Even if the heads are swappable with the rest of the sister heads, there was plenty of room in there for a few extra bits to jazz the model up a little. It seems like even as GWS sculpts get better and better, as a modeller they seem to get more boring in terms of lack of options and posing. Not a problem specific to this release, just kind of sad this is the direction they continue to trend into.
The single sprue, no options plastic heroes seems to be how GW has been doing them for a while. I miss the options too, but It only seems like dual kits will get them.
angel of death 007 wrote: Couldn't the same be said for all the necromunda models that were redone/ rereleased.
Clearly not, since they were updated. And no, they didn't keep the same style. Most of the current gangs bear at best only a passing resemblance to their forebears.
You seem to be still missing the point, though - yes, GWcould have updated the look of the Sisters. They didn't want to, which is why it's taken so long to get them in plastic... and most Sisters fans, from what I've seen, are more than happy that they didn't.
Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. If the existing design works both aesthetically and mechanically, there is no particular reason to change it, and doing so serves no purpose other than to irritate people who have existing collections.
angel of death 007 wrote:The only thing really not retro will surely be their obnoxious prices which I am sure will end up shell shocking some. I am thinking it will be to the tune of $50 USD for 5. It is amazing how nothing has remotely mentioned pricing yet? I was just hoping for a more necromunda style approach to an aged design. Call me crazy if you wish as it is just an opinion.
No, it isn't amazing how nothing has remotely mentioned pricing yet. Prices are known as soon as they are leaked via some retailer, and only confirmed for all currencies when the products are up on the webstore. They're not typically the stuff of Warhammer Community preview articles. But yeah, who knows, maybe one of the next Battle Sister Bulletins will be "here's a preview of the eyewatering pricetags that will be adorning this lovely new range. Isn't it exciting!".
As for the redesign, well, we are bound to disagree. Many people quite clearly don't want something different, they want SoB that look like SoB. In plastic. And both today and 10 years from now, that design stands up a lot better than the mostly cringey stuff produced by Raging Heroes.
Hollow wrote: Well, at risk of being called a GW sycophant, I really like everything I have seen regarding this release. The models, The Art work. Literally everything...
Honestly, I generally do too. There is nothing in here I hate in terms of the sculpts. I think the Repentia could be better, but I want to see what sprue options there are (which I suppose will be little to none), and I think once I convert the tops into ragged tabards I'll like them just fine. I even like the Cannoness collar nearly everyone seems to hate.
I'm glad I kept open some shelf space for these guys.
The only thing I don't like is how crappy that Cannonness sprue is. No alternate weapons, no alternate heads? That's just lazy. Even if the heads are swappable with the rest of the sister heads, there was plenty of room in there for a few extra bits to jazz the model up a little. It seems like even as GWS sculpts get better and better, as a modeller they seem to get more boring in terms of lack of options and posing. Not a problem specific to this release, just kind of sad this is the direction they continue to trend into.
The single sprue, no options plastic heroes seems to be how GW has been doing them for a while. I miss the options too, but It only seems like dual kits will get them.
The Genestealer Cult characters have some options at least. Locus has a bunch of different heads, the Magus.. well, just the one option for a different left hand. Still, it's more than nothing. If anything, this seems like something that would merely help competitors that can simply create similar characters in new poses, for added variation in your force.
drbored wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if that image of a holy procession around a dead saint becomes a set of miniatures. They'd be super characterful. Sisters wielding sword and shield would be amazing and a good way to depict Celestians.
A terrain piece similar to the Noctilith Crown perhaps? I'd buy at least two.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The article does have me curious though. It would be odd to have Arco-flagellants and Penitent Engines without a plastic Ministronum Priest to control them. A separate character blister pack, maybe?
The sword and board sister could be either a Celestian Superior or a Palatine if they give us a Lieutenant-style battle leader.
vipoid wrote: That is a gorgeous model. Wish it was a Canoness.
She certainly could be with a bit of work. That's one of the great things about plastics - much easier to modify.
So you honestly think there will be rules for a jump-pack Canoness?
Probably, not. But given the example of Space marines using stratagems to give unit champions, special issue equipment, relics, and warlord traits. We maybe able to tool her pretty pretty well. There's also the option of taking a living saint; either generic or named she'll have the fly rule.
Irbis wrote: Absolutely nothing, 3rd edition codex had art of Sister with the same loadout, five editions later and they didn't appear even in BL books, never mind actual model, even KT or BSF one...
Aiight sparky. No need to jump down my throat. And who cares if it appears or doesn't appear in BL books? When has that ever meant anything.
I just think it looks cool, and would be a great option for Celestians, that's all.
angel of death 007 wrote: Couldn't the same be said for all the necromunda models that were redone/ rereleased.
Not really. Cawdor, Orlocks and Escher remain roughly the same as they once were. Goliaths have a similar style (with a little less punk/bondage going on) but are much bigger. Van Saar have changed quite a bit, in both the style of their suits and their heads (they're no longer a gang of well groomed men). And the new Delaques look nothing like the old Delaques (unless you count "are bald" as being their single defining trait), going from trenchcoat mafia to Dark City villains.
Compared to what we've seen of Sisters or even the new Banshee, the Necro minis are vastly different from the originals.
Racerguy180 wrote: there is the plastic priest from Blackstone fortress. So that's probably where they'll get it from.
Nah, he's not on a separate sprue. The only one that came on a separate sprue was Mallex, and he was released alongside the CSM. It's worth noting that the cultist champion from the other Blackstone supplement also got put on a separate sprue. Sadly, the Crusader and other adventurers are on the same sprue.
they can make a separate mold for him, for all we know, BSF was designed before they made the decision to release plastic Sororitas. Now that they have a shiny new army to put him in they could do it rather easily.
angel of death 007 wrote: I mean how many years has passed just to basically transfer over is really an injustice.
What you've missed is that the time passed is precisely so that the existing designs could be transferred to plastic.
The studio (or specifically Jes Goodwin) has always been staunchly against the idea of redesigning sisters, and they've said as much on multiple occasions. And until now, the technology GW were using just wasn't up to rendering this design in plastic.
We're getting plastic sisters now precisely because GW can now produce plastic models that look like the metal ones.
Couldn't the same be said for all the necromunda models that were redone/ rereleased. They did modify them and they still kept more of the same style yet made the sculpts a bit better overall. Looking at the clan models from before and then the remakes I think GW did a fantastic job. I just don't see the same thing with the new SoB or whatever fake Latin name GW wants to give there stuff nowadays. When I see the sculpts a part of me was hoping for a subtle change like they did in Necromunda is all I am saying. They don't need to go all out like RH did. I am glad RH did their thing though. It both filled a gap in the aged non available metal models and gave people kind of what they wanted as it was a Kickstarter so it actually took in the opinions of their customers, unlike GW who stayed stagnent for how many years again, despite numerous people voicing their opinions, even in their massive survey. Sister's were in demand. GW ignored it. Competition made some money and now GW wants to arrive late to the party wearing yesteryears dress.
The only thing really not retro will surely be their obnoxious prices which I am sure will end up shell shocking some. I am thinking it will be to the tune of $50 USD for 5. It is amazing how nothing has remotely mentioned pricing yet? I was just hoping for a more necromunda style approach to an aged design. Call me crazy if you wish as it is just an opinion.
Given how the old sisters are currently priced, the cost will go down. $50 for 5 is unlikely- not even dire avengers or scions are that bad.
A basic sisters squad is currently $80, with single models (if, for example you want squads that aren't 1 meltagun and 1 stormbolter) being an extra $15 each.
Retributors are $110.
Granted, the canoness will definitely be more than the current $15 one, and the immolator will likely be more than $40, but the squads should definitely see a cost decrease (and better options per box).
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
drbored wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if that image of a holy procession around a dead saint becomes a set of miniatures. They'd be super characterful. Sisters wielding sword and shield would be amazing and a good way to depict Celestians.
A mixed unit of the arc that gives an aura and the procession that carries it would be awesome
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
You would be wrong.
You know this how?
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number. Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box. I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
If I were worried about that, I would have a far larger post count--what with having been around for over a decade.
But frankly, it's a silly thing for people to be commenting like that as these kinds of idle speculations/"feelings" coupled with weirdly specific examples(and really--people need to stop conflating Shadowspear with Dark Imperium) of things that aren't even right(Dark Imperium and Shadowspear aren't considered "easy to build" sets) have a way of becoming gospel.
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
I think he means that in ETB boxes it is not the number of units that matter but the space on sprues.
For exemple, for shadowspear GW said that they could "only" add 2 oblit and not 3 because of a lack of space.
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
That's on you. It does have an effect, but I'm not going to get into it.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
It does seem to jibe well with the box's "25 models" listing.
Spoiling speculation:
Spoiler:
There's a 10 model squad of Battle Sisters(including a Simulacrum Imperialis and Sister Superior), the Canoness, and the Penitent Engine are pretty easy to confirm/count numbers on.
That's 12 models there.
There is a Mistress of Repentance shown, which puts you at 13...but the question is how many Repentia? Right now, the minimum unit size is 3--it could get bumped up to 5 for a minimum and become a 6 model set, which would put you at 18 models. If it remains at minimum sized of 3 and comes with a Mistress on its own frame in the box and doubled up frames of the Repentia themselves--that could put you at 19.
Then there's Seraphim shown, again, question is would it be like now with 5x Seraphim or would it be a smaller unit size?
If it remains at 5x Seraphim...that puts you at 23 models if no doubled up sprues of 3 for the Repentia, 24 if it's doubled up.
Something I'm wondering about is Arco-Flagellants. The artwork from this week's Battle Sister Bulletin made it look slightly larger than before, making me wonder if maybe it might get its own sprue in the Repentia set--or share a sprue with the Mistress of Repentance.
But that's just idle speculation at this juncture. We'll see as we get closer to November.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
Starting here with a nitpick:
A multipart kit can be monopose. The terms aren't exclusive.
Monopose kit does not mean Easy to Build. Easy Builds are the ones that GW bills as "no glue required".
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
No and no way to know. They're not working with the community to fix the terrible beta codex, but they might be working with specific playtesters.
And it's not just your area. The vast majority of people who actually play sisters see it as anywhere from 'mediocre' to 'hot garbage'. I myself am firmly in the 'just go back to the freakin index if you're not gonna even TRY!' Camp. Because the index had good rules.
Also, sidebar, can we stop pretending that the models in the video aren't 100% 22 of the 25 models in the box? It's not some holmsian mystery guys.
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
Considering actual Adepta Sororitas only have 2 HQs, it's unlikely we won't get at least a new character.
I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
Yes, but that doesn't stop them from being monopose (real monopose, not multipose models you mistakenly call monopose.) There are monopose variants of some CSM and many Primaris units along with their multipose counterparts. There is no particular reason to think that they couldn't do the same with the Sisters.
alextroy wrote: Please, please, please let there be a model of the sword and board Sister.
If they wanted to make it truly realistic, she could be armed with a ruler and a math book. Aw yeah, that brings back some unpleasant high school memories.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
Monopose models are easier to design and build, and they can fit models from multiple units on the same sprue, cutting down on tooling costs. They can reuse these unique sprues again for a start collecting or Kill Team box, so the investment isn't lost when the full models become available. Box games is the third leg of GW (after AoS and 40k), which means a different department is responsible, so it is possible to get this box done in parallel to the work the core 40k team is doing. If the models don't feature all the options (like the mech with a different woebegone minion hanging on it), they still give gamers a reason to rebuy the models in their full form. And if the full models aren't coming out in 2019, releasing something like this box would be a way to make the announced deadline (and hit Christmas) without fully committing to the whole line.
And frankly, they can sell a boxed bundle much cheaper than they would sell four or five unit boxes separately, so why would they even bother making a bundle upfront? They can't sell the box for too much because November is Christmas time and people have hard limits on how much they can spend - nobody is going to buy themselves a $400 box set and get their family used socks for Christmas. If the box does have a significant discount, people would just buy multiple boxes and have a large army at a huge discount. It'd be like leading with a Start Collecting rather than doing it a year later. This is basically an Xmas bundle putting the cart before the horse. There's a longer strategy at play here.
Sqorgar wrote: Monopose models are easier to design and build, and they can fit models from multiple units on the same sprue, cutting down on tooling costs. They can reuse these unique sprues again for a start collecting or Kill Team box, so the investment isn't lost when the full models become available. Box games is the third leg of GW (after AoS and 40k), which means a different department is responsible, so it is possible to get this box done in parallel to the work the core 40k team is doing. If the models don't feature all the options (like the mech with a different woebegone minion hanging on it), they still give gamers a reason to rebuy the models in their full form. And if the full models aren't coming out in 2019, releasing something like this box would be a way to make the announced deadline (and hit Christmas) without fully committing to the whole line.
But they're already making a full Sisters kit, so I don't think they'd make the one-off box of all mono-pose minis as well as the full kit just so they can shove 'em in a Start Collecting! box later down the line when it's easier just to do one kit.
And this isn't a boxed game.
Sqorgar wrote: And frankly, they can sell a boxed bundle much cheaper than they would sell four or five unit boxes separately, so why would they even bother making a bundle upfront? They can't sell the box for too much because November is Christmas time and people have hard limits on how much they can spend - nobody is going to buy themselves a $400 box set and get their family used socks for Christmas. If the box does have a significant discount, people would just buy multiple boxes and have a large army at a huge discount. It'd be like leading with a Start Collecting rather than doing it a year later. This is basically an Xmas bundle putting the cart before the horse. There's a longer strategy at play here.
And they sell big battleforces of regular kits all the time.
Sorry, but Occam's Razor just come screeching through this entire line of thinking. It makes more sense that the minis in the first Sisters release will be the regular minis than some special one-offs made for a preview box.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But they're already making a full Sisters kit, so I don't think they'd make the one-off box of all mono-pose minis as well as the full kit just so they can shove 'em in a Start Collecting! box later down the line when it's easier just to do one kit.
But they just did that with CSM and the Vanguard marines.
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
Changing all models available at the moment to plastic is the absolute minimum expected of GW. We have no indication of anything more than that and that may end up all they're doing, but there are two good reasons why simply plasticizing the current range is not.
1. GW has shown they believe that new models sell better than redone versions of existing models, time and again passing over units that need new models, in the worst case the very core of the army that you just can't get around, to sell you a new, shiny centerpiece. Even in spite of criticism that you can't make an army out of centerpiece models and there is a compelling argument for making the actual core of the army look good. While not impossible, there is no reason to assume that GW will change this approach for Sisters. If they believe there are enough metal Sisters out there that may stop people from buying the new kits, they will probably make sure the new kits offer something that does not already exist.
2. In the era of no model no rules, you can't sell an army based on design paradigms from 3rd ed. The game has moved on and power creep has seen to the release of frankly idiotically powerful units, units which Sisters never got. GW seems to be aware that good rules sell models, but if they won't hand out those good rules because they don't have the fitting models, there's only two ways to go. And since they already resolved to make models, chances are these will not be limited to what we have at the moment so as to make sure the models' rules can be made attractive.
Now I don't know if we'll see actual new units, but there's reason to believe that there will at least be new options. Which is one of those things that makes the beta codex so predictably dumb. You know it's not the full rule set, and testing bits and pieces in isolation won't do much to improve what will effectively be an entirely different book.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Let's count, what are the last few model releases that have followed the pattern of "Army box with monopose version of full kit, full kit released later?"
Shadowspear (Brand new chaos, Phobos SM. Also worth noting this box followed the exact same pattern of having duplicate poses in many of the units like CSMs, Eliminators and Suppressors which are not duplicates in the full kits)
Dark Imperium (Starter box, no duplicate poses IIRC)
Deathwatch: Overkill (standalone board game, but it did follow the same identical pattern except that the monopose deathwatch were later made into a kit you could buy.)
The last army they released without this pattern was Admech, in early 7th edition.
Major Releases not following this pattern:
Ork Speed Freeks stuff (Speed Freeks box was 2 of the full kits, and 2 existing ork biker kits)
The wave of assorted nid stuff we got mid 7th? That was just kits, there was no box set.
Thousand Sons, again released without a box set.
Admech/Harlequins/other pre-7th ed army releases.
I don't think it's any kind of crazy to assume that Sisters of Battle will follow the release pattern of the last four major wave releases and will not be a Necromunda-style duplicate single-sprue in one box kit situation considering CSMs were not.
Crimson wrote: ... But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Like most things GW have been releasing recently.
MPPK monopose is not usually "literally just one possible pose" however. in the newest GW kits you almost always see models that can only be assembled 2-3 ways, rather than true single pose. You see this with stuff like the new Sigmar kits (I just assembled a bunch of Namarti Reavers and I got the new GSC Aberrants, both of which are dated to that year rather than older kits released later) and they all had multiple sets of arms dedicated to each torso+Legs so you could make 2 different possible figures for each model, and then they had freely swappable heads.
Yeah, it's a space marines head that they put some eye shadow and lipstick on in an effort to cover up the art <removed>. That's why there's a group of sisters with heads like that all together in the painting (top of painting to foreground, about 1/3 across from the left hand side) and the sisters that are further away from the group all have normal female heads. The artist started doing the cartoon for the painting, and then realized partway through that they had drawn primaris marines instead of sisters. Rather than RE-do the cartoon, they just plowed ahead. Real 'quality' form GW's art department there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Let's count, what are the last few model releases that have followed the pattern of "Army box with monopose version of full kit, full kit released later?"
Shadowspear (Brand new chaos, Phobos SM. Also worth noting this box followed the exact same pattern of having duplicate poses in many of the units like CSMs, Eliminators and Suppressors which are not duplicates in the full kits)
Dark Imperium (Starter box, no duplicate poses IIRC)
Deathwatch: Overkill (standalone board game, but it did follow the same identical pattern except that the monopose deathwatch were later made into a kit you could buy.)
The last army they released without this pattern was Admech, in early 7th edition.
Major Releases not following this pattern:
Ork Speed Freeks stuff (Speed Freeks box was 2 of the full kits, and 2 existing ork biker kits)
The wave of assorted nid stuff we got mid 7th? That was just kits, there was no box set.
Thousand Sons, again released without a box set.
Admech/Harlequins/other pre-7th ed army releases.
I don't think it's any kind of crazy to assume that Sisters of Battle will follow the release pattern of the last four major wave releases and will not be a Necromunda-style duplicate single-sprue in one box kit situation considering CSMs were not.
Crimson wrote: ... But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Like most things GW have been releasing recently.
MPPK monopose is not usually "literally just one possible pose" however. in the newest GW kits you almost always see models that can only be assembled 2-3 ways, rather than true single pose. You see this with stuff like the new Sigmar kits (I just assembled a bunch of Namarti Reavers and I got the new GSC Aberrants, both of which are dated to that year rather than older kits released later) and they all had multiple sets of arms dedicated to each torso+Legs so you could make 2 different possible figures for each model, and then they had freely swappable heads.
I’d call Deathwatch a borderline case. The monopose ones were all named characters.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Do you mean that you saw it happen? For real?
That's a story I'd like to hear about .
LOL no but I've done something similar myself. The fact that all the women with Primaris marine heads are all together in a group sort of gives it away that the artist had started at that point, and then worked their way around it. Which is how you can tell it was done during the cartoon stage of the painting. Typically you'd rough in the poses and then do faces on the figures you're focusing on.
The issue is that most human women would not look that way unless they took something like somatotropin for a long time or in really high amounts (yes, my hobbyhorse about actually creating super-humans again), but then they wouldn't be the same size as the other SOB in the painting. But Space Marine heads do have that super wide heavy square jawed look for obvious reasons.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Do you mean that you saw it happen? For real?
That's a story I'd like to hear about .
LOL no but I've done something similar myself. The fact that all the women with Primaris marine heads are all together in a group sort of gives it away that the artist had started at that point, and then worked their way around it. Which is how you can tell it was done during the cartoon stage of the painting. Typically you'd rough in the poses and then do faces on the figures you're focusing on.
The issue is that most human women would not look that way unless they took something like somatotropin for a long time or in really high amounts (yes, my hobbyhorse about actually creating super-humans again), but then they wouldn't be the same size as the other SOB in the painting. But Space Marine heads do have that super wide heavy square jawed look for obvious reasons.
There's a very 40k bit of fluff lurking behind that story, what happens if there are not enough female orphans/recruits and you really need reinforcements?
Well what would a cynical amoral organisation like the church do well I guess you take those very loyal fanatical male want to be recruits/orphans and a quick involuntary nip tuck later you have some very angry SoB who would actual look like some of the models and depictions of SoB.
It would also explain the high instances of psychological damage that results in repentia and the mass psychosis of the miracles etc.
In the unlikely event of female orphans being available to enter training (long before they are available to take the field) I think the Imperium would have no problem "volunteering" whatever requirement they need to fill their quota without stepping in to the notion of sending men to join the Sororitas.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Let's count, what are the last few model releases that have followed the pattern of "Army box with monopose version of full kit, full kit released later?"
Shadowspear (Brand new chaos, Phobos SM. Also worth noting this box followed the exact same pattern of having duplicate poses in many of the units like CSMs, Eliminators and Suppressors which are not duplicates in the full kits)
Dark Imperium (Starter box, no duplicate poses IIRC)
Deathwatch: Overkill (standalone board game, but it did follow the same identical pattern except that the monopose deathwatch were later made into a kit you could buy.)
The last army they released without this pattern was Admech, in early 7th edition.
Major Releases not following this pattern:
Ork Speed Freeks stuff (Speed Freeks box was 2 of the full kits, and 2 existing ork biker kits)
The wave of assorted nid stuff we got mid 7th? That was just kits, there was no box set.
Thousand Sons, again released without a box set.
Admech/Harlequins/other pre-7th ed army releases.
I don't think it's any kind of crazy to assume that Sisters of Battle will follow the release pattern of the last four major wave releases and will not be a Necromunda-style duplicate single-sprue in one box kit situation considering CSMs were not.
Crimson wrote: ... But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Like most things GW have been releasing recently.
MPPK monopose is not usually "literally just one possible pose" however. in the newest GW kits you almost always see models that can only be assembled 2-3 ways, rather than true single pose. You see this with stuff like the new Sigmar kits (I just assembled a bunch of Namarti Reavers and I got the new GSC Aberrants, both of which are dated to that year rather than older kits released later) and they all had multiple sets of arms dedicated to each torso+Legs so you could make 2 different possible figures for each model, and then they had freely swappable heads.
I’d call Deathwatch a borderline case. The monopose ones were all named characters.
Which is a really convenient way to release an army by putting out a bunch of monopose models and then replacing them with a MPPK later, as is currently the standard GW business model for new armies.
You can also go the Ork route: Release a box set with monopose models and then just make the whole release monopose with no options in any of the kits.
GaroRobe wrote: "If the Sororitas Rhino looks this good, just imagine how awesome the new Immolator and Exorcist miniatures will be…"
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The article is talking about an upgrade frame, which seems to imply that it's the old Rhino kit combined with a "SOB Vehicle upgrade sprue", then? Ignoring the obvious bits and bobs the kit seems identical to the current Rhino except for the front glacis and the top and side doors.
Yes, I'm waiting for the "real" sister vehicles to be revealed. It's nice to have a specific sister Rhino upgrade kit, but I did that with the old Immolator upgrade sprue in the past. A Rhino is still a Rhino, after all. I have good faith for the Exorcist and Immolator, if the Rhino upgrade sprue is already giving that ornated feeling.
The old previews suggested a new demios style kit but this is just an iconography pack.
Why in the hell is GW replacing a distinctive existing plastic conversion sprue with something that looks like it was ordered from a 3rd party ebay site five years ago?
Why in the hell is GW replacing a distinctive existing plastic conversion sprue with something that looks like it was ordered from a 3rd party ebay site five years ago?
Because that's what they always did with all Rhino based vehicles ? Old plastic Immolator was not an exception.
Like HBMC said, simple answer is often the most likely answer.
The old previews suggested a new demios style kit but this is just an iconography pack.
Why in the hell is GW replacing a distinctive existing plastic conversion sprue with something that looks like it was ordered from a 3rd party ebay site five years ago?
on the official 40k facebook page that said it will be for the immolator and exorcist. I just hope you can use those without to much trouble as rhinos
The old previews suggested a new demios style kit but this is just an iconography pack.
Why in the hell is GW replacing a distinctive existing plastic conversion sprue with something that looks like it was ordered from a 3rd party ebay site five years ago?
on the official 40k facebook page that said it will be for the immolator and exorcist. I just hope you can use those without to much trouble as rhinos
"Trouble" won't likely be the issue. Between the Immolator and the Exorcist you'll probably have all the parts you need for a flat, closed Rhino top. The kit will just come at the price of a main battle tank instead of a dedicated transport, and looking at the new Mechanicus one that's going to be more than you pay for a Land Raider.
terry wrote: on the official 40k facebook page that said it will be for the immolator and exorcist. I just hope you can use those without to much trouble as rhinos
I can't help but think this upgrade kit would have been perfect for the ecclesiarchy rhinos, used by priests and battle conclaves. Except they've gone all-in on the fluer roof.
Perhaps it'll be a double sided roof and the vehicle will be redeemed.
As it stands it looks like one of the old half-sprure kits you got with releases like the 4e templars. No mk3 roof means it doesn't sit well with the old models, no mk1 sides means it doesn't fit well with the forgeworld/previewed demios...
I guess the flat roof would make it ideal for repressor kits though.
Crimson wrote: What? This is it? But they showed Deimos bits earlier... what happened to those?
I'm guessing they just aren't showing them off?
There is a mention of "just imagine how cool the new Immolator and Exorcists will look..." in the article.
But if they have made a full dedicated Deimos hull for Immolator and Exorcist why not use it for the Rhino as well?
My gues is that there is going to be 2 Rhino based vehicles coming for Sisters. This one (and possibly Razorback) and other being the Immolator and Exorcist on Deimos variant.
However, if they are smart, those Rhinos are compatible in parts so you could to Deimos -pattern APC if you wished.
Do the Inquisition models still fill in on this list? I'm interested in crossing over a Sisters of Silence squad with the Sisters squad box for some Inquisition minions/ troops for double duty for Blackstone Fortress and 40K.
Yes, it is quite obvious that it is the same Rhino with different options, haha. Regardless, I'm very happy with it! The new old Demios style doesn't match my current vehicles at all and I was a bit afraid it would fall out of place because of it. This Rhino looks great to me. The extra bits are great and I'm looking forward to adding this to my Sisters army. The current immolater is very easily used as regular Rhino, so people who want that can still probably do so. Looking forward to see more of the previews.
Grot 6 wrote: Do the Inquisition models still fill in on this list? I'm interested in crossing over a Sisters of Silence squad with the Sisters squad box for some Inquisition minions/ troops for double duty for Blackstone Fortress and 40K.
There's no indication that Inquisition will be represented in the Sororitas codex*. And while GW is clearly not in a rush to reveal the full lineup. given that these days they are willing to give a codex to armies made from a single kit there's not much reason to believe that they'd stick any Inquisition units in a codex has has no background connection and only the barest thematic overlap. Assume until proven otherwise that this codex and the models released alongside it are exclusively part of the Ecclesiarchy.
*There's not indication that Inquisition is going to be represented anywhere, ever. That's what it's come...
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
They… managed to make the one plastic kit we got worse?
Like, it's not bad, the details are likely better, but removing the cool top we had? That was a TERRIBLE idea! I'm glad I own multiple rhinos already.
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
Well so far there is not a single "new" model revealed - the plastics are lovely and its great but I would have hoped for at least something actually new....
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
Ain't no one getting no repressors. What was the last FW model moved to plastic? The Baneblade 10+ years ago? Ain't happening.
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
Well so far there is not a single "new" model revealed - the plastics are lovely and its great but I would have hoped for at least something actually new....
That was never the deal. And, honestly... I didn't expect it, and don't blame GW for not going all into a new range after nothing for decades. If the new range really does sell like hotcakes, it will likely get bumped to early in the release cycle with new models. But they should really want real sales figures first.
Same with Repressor. It was outside the scope of the update.
Grot 6 wrote: Do the Inquisition models still fill in on this list? I'm interested in crossing over a Sisters of Silence squad with the Sisters squad box for some Inquisition minions/ troops for double duty for Blackstone Fortress and 40K.
Nope!
And Sisters of Silence are Astra Telepathica. Was really happy to see them call that out in today's article.
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
Well so far there is not a single "new" model revealed - the plastics are lovely and its great but I would have hoped for at least something actually new....
That was never the deal. And, honestly... I didn't expect it, and don't blame GW for not going all into a new range after nothing for decades. If the new range really does sell like hotcakes, it will likely get bumped to early in the release cycle with new models. But they should really want real sales figures first.
Same with Repressor. It was outside the scope of the update.
Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
(and a significant number will have read about them in the lore but never realised they existed as a playable faction as you cant get a Sisters battlebox at Christmas)
plus all the folk who just want more (even if it's just plastic versions of stuff they have)
I'm certain sales will be decent even if there's nothing really new (although a new unit type, heroine or vehicle will of course help)
ERJAK wrote: They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
And they would be correct to do so.
Though it is perfectly possible that there are some new units. If there are, those will be the last ones to be previewed.
I find the 90% number unlikely (even ignoring people that buy this just to paint, which GW has previously suggested is a not insignificant chunk of their sales), but yes.
People do replace existing models with the new versions. Back when I spent more time in gaming stores, the vast majority of release day sales of new <whatever> kits went to people who already had that army. Without fail, every time. Even when (in the case of marines) they were getting new versions of models they replaced last time there were new versions. In this case, with a 20+ year lag, I would definitely say they want to.
The sisters release is mostly going to live or die based on Sisters players (or those that say they would be, if only...) putting their money where their mouths are. After years of begging, pleading and ranting (especially ranting), it's time to pony up and prove that all the noise actually meant something.
The only reason I don't already own a 2500+ point Sisters army is because I absolutely detest assembling metal models. I've been waiting for this update ever since I got into the hobby a few years ago. The Adepta Soriritas has been my favorite Imperial faction since I started playing Dark Heresy in college. I'm not the only one.
I currently dont have Sororitas mainly due to the models being metal. Planning on getting a fully viable army ASAP and it'll be the first one to not be done piecemeal since my Squat Bikers back in the day.
The new upgrades breath new life into the venerable rhino kit and cant wait to see what they've done to the immolator & exorcist.
EnTyme wrote: The only reason I don't already own a 2500+ point Sisters army is because I absolutely detest assembling metal models. I've been waiting for this update ever since I got into the hobby a few years ago.
If they pretend like the repressor doesn’t exist i’ll be disappointed to say the least. The rhino’s look great however, I use to ration Sororitas upgrade bits for my vehicle so this takes the headache out of planning a full mechanized sisters force.
Twoshoes23 wrote: If they pretend like the repressor doesn’t exist i’ll be disappointed to say the least.
It's a FW vehicle. It is unlikely that it will be in the codex or get a plastic kit. That sort of thing doesn't usually happen.
That’s too bad, because I thought GW was in the business of making cash money. What sisters player doesn’t seriously consider the dominion repressor combo for any style of play? GW must know of the demand for repressor upgrade kits, their price was/is stupid high. Great time to end the precedent of GW forge world relationship.
Seriously. Are we really going to see an entire new release of SoB models and rules, where yet again the Repressor is by far the best vehicle, and STILL that same best vehicle won't be re-released? Is this madness genuinely going to happen?
I'm just curious, why is everyone flipping their biscuits over this? They aren't going to show us all the toys in one go, it seems a little silly to get all scared about something that is likely not ready to be shown off yet.
ERJAK wrote: They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
And they would be correct to do so.
Though it is perfectly possible that there are some new units. If there are, those will be the last ones to be previewed.
There's no version of reality where that would be correct. All they'd have to do is make a few new characters and convert some units into dual kits to make people buy more and make the rules good to make people more interested. A negligible additional investment off of redoing the line already that would appeal to a much broader audience.
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Voss wrote: I find the 90% number unlikely (even ignoring people that buy this just to paint, which GW has previously suggested is a not insignificant chunk of their sales), but yes.
People do replace existing models with the new versions. Back when I spent more time in gaming stores, the vast majority of release day sales of new <whatever> kits went to people who already had that army. Without fail, every time. Even when (in the case of marines) they were getting new versions of models they replaced last time there were new versions. In this case, with a 20+ year lag, I would definitely say they want to.
The sisters release is mostly going to live or die based on Sisters players (or those that say they would be, if only...) putting their money where their mouths are. After years of begging, pleading and ranting (especially ranting), it's time to pony up and prove that all the noise actually meant something.
The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
Hmmm, I really hope that GW is not doing away with the current immolator kit in favor of this for the upgrade sprew.
I'm hoping that this new rhino kit is simply a army specific upgrade sprew for the ubiquitous imperial rhino kit. Kinda like the Space Wolves rhino simply has a SW decal sheet instead of the SM decal sheet in the standard rhino box.
Lets wait to see the Immolator prevew that's coming up next.
Shadenuat wrote: May be just a feeling but I think new sisters bawx will be in sold out before you could blink.
Great rhino beautification kit by the way.
I already saved my beer money and gave half up front to the local store manager with express intent that this is a down payment on that box.
Maybe not a guarantee, but I also hope to save up the rest to give him next month, meaning paid in full beforehand.
So, when he sits to do the ordering himself, he can add 1 to the total.
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dracpanzer wrote: All these predictions of sales mean nothing if the rules suck. A bad dex will chop the legs right out from under this release.
Sisters will be lucky to get back what viability they lost from the index. Which will still leave them far behind.
Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
And to that end, I do see GW introducing an Inqusition book.
If they were wise in my opinion,
they would be pushing this with whatever new Eisenhorn TV show they are part of now ...
Go the fantastic tales and fantastic creature in spaaaace route.
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Voss wrote: I find the 90% number unlikely (even ignoring people that buy this just to paint, which GW has previously suggested is a not insignificant chunk of their sales), but yes.
People do replace existing models with the new versions. Back when I spent more time in gaming stores, the vast majority of release day sales of new <whatever> kits went to people who already had that army. Without fail, every time. Even when (in the case of marines) they were getting new versions of models they replaced last time there were new versions. In this case, with a 20+ year lag, I would definitely say they want to.
The sisters release is mostly going to live or die based on Sisters players (or those that say they would be, if only...) putting their money where their mouths are. After years of begging, pleading and ranting (especially ranting), it's time to pony up and prove that all the noise actually meant something.
Yup. And here is what is interesting -
how well the new GW Mary-suification of the universe goes with people after they buy this starter set,
and how GW encourages further sales from this initial re-investment.
ERJAK wrote: Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
Old players aren't really GW's main target group though. It's the kids who buy army or two and then it's time to move to the next kid to sell his army and be done. Veterans with old armies are of interest only as a marketing tool to draw in the next kid.
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ERJAK wrote: The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
You just said exact reason why they aren't too worried about "oh bohoo it's just old models plastic so old players don't buy"...Old players don't make it worthwhile alone anyway. They need and are aiming for people with zero sisters before. I'm much more of their target group than existing sister player because I don't have them yet at all and certainly are tempted(only LOTR and AT are keeping it not from immediate start the army)
I prefer the Forge World doors. Even the ones on the current Immolator are better. There's just something about these that's too Inquisitionish looking for my liking.
Breotan wrote: There's just something about these that's too Inquisitionish looking for my liking.
Whilst I have never watched the show, I do remember that in the first episode of NCIS someone asks the main character "Is that like CSI?" and he replies "Only if you're dyslexic". That is to say, they're not like one another other than the most superficial of readings (they both have letters in them).
I feel your comment is kind of similar, as there is literally nothing "Inquisitionish" about the symbol on the Rhino. Why? Because it's the symbol of the Adeptus Ministorum. It's about as Inquisitorial as the symbol for the Custodes or the Arbites.
barontuman wrote: Glad that we're not seeing Deimos pattern here, they were ugly then, and I was glad to see them be retired.
Anyone else notice this :
"Well, we felt inclined to spoil you a little, so we’re actually going to show off TWO fully painted Sororitas Rhinos!"
Those are the same Rhino with different bits glued on! Just look at the wear patterns.
Hah! I didn't notice that till you pointed that out. But yeah, GW will do that on different things. They magnetize or do bits swaps on lots of vehicles or models that have multiple builds. Saves a lot of time on painting a ton of extra minis, so why not? It shows us a big variety of bits and that's what we care about.
But yeah, a little sad that they didn't show off the Deimos variant. I'm expecting that it'll be reserved for the Exorcist/Immolator, though I'd be quite happy if you could make normal Rhinos out of it. The old rhino kit needs to be retired already, it's not fun to put together and it's got a butt-ton of flash and mold line issues, not to mention requiring green stuff to make some of the panels fit flush.
Crimson wrote: What? This is it? But they showed Deimos bits earlier... what happened to those?
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
Crimson wrote: What? This is it? But they showed Deimos bits earlier... what happened to those?
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
It does say " some of these vehicles" are based on that variant though, which seems a bit odd to have 2 different Rhino types in use.
I would be willing to bet money that those previews with that degree of ostentation are showing parts of the Exorcist kit. Those tanks more than any other in the SoB armoury are as much reliquaries as anything else.
jeff white wrote: Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
It'll be interesting to see how they make t3, bolters and flamers an appealing soup option when compared to guard, nu-marines (and the rumoured salamander rule), deathwatch, etc. The beta, previews, and blackstone units have been a blank slate on that so far.
And it may well have anti-souping rules (or at least benefits for not souping), as the 8.5 marine codex does. I expect to see a lot of that from now on.
I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
GW might want to play to both sides - people just getting into SoB and prefer the look of Mars pattern, and people who want Deimos pattern.
Thing is, however, that if the new Immolator and Exorcist are Deimos pattern, I doubt the parts will be interchangeable with the Mars kit (though it's possible it is).
It's also possible that any Repressor kit would work better with a Mars Pattern Rhino than Deimos Pattern, so keep Mars around. But that's just wishlisting on my part.
Racerguy180 wrote: There is 30k to think about. That way they can get them in plastic, which deimos really need cuz the running boards are a pain if warped.
Yeah, I'm sure that the dozens of people who still play HH would really appreciate that.
Im sure the fact that it's not using the most current base game rules has nothing to do with it.
As soon as it goes to 8th I'll buy a bunch more to complement what I already have from 30k and actually play it rather than just collect and use the units for 40k.
ERJAK wrote: Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
Old players aren't really GW's main target group though. It's the kids who buy army or two and then it's time to move to the next kid to sell his army and be done. Veterans with old armies are of interest only as a marketing tool to draw in the next kid.
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ERJAK wrote: The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
You just said exact reason why they aren't too worried about "oh bohoo it's just old models plastic so old players don't buy"...Old players don't make it worthwhile alone anyway. They need and are aiming for people with zero sisters before. I'm much more of their target group than existing sister player because I don't have them yet at all and certainly are tempted(only LOTR and AT are keeping it not from immediate start the army)
My greater point is that without an actual fully functioning army, the release is unlikely to draw in too many new players. The beta codex basically just had us as boring, short range weaker space marines. Answering the question 'so what does the army play like?' with 'If you wanna win? Poxwalker horde. MAYBE some vehicle stuff if you're a good enough player.' Isn't going to appeal to very many people.
On the other side, people who would be primarily interested in them for the models are either small purchasers buying the few models they really like for allied detachments and painting projects, or excuse factories who say stuff like 'well I would buy a new sisters army but LOTR yunno?'
To get a significant number of consistent long term purchasers , especially for an only minimally established line, you need good models, good lore, good rules, and good customization(whether through kits or army construction). So far they've only gotten half of those, despite having plenty of opportunity to get at least 3/4ths.
Shadenuat wrote: May be just a feeling but I think new sisters bawx will be in sold out before you could blink.
Great rhino beautification kit by the way.
I already saved my beer money and gave half up front to the local store manager with express intent that this is a down payment on that box.
Maybe not a guarantee, but I also hope to save up the rest to give him next month, meaning paid in full beforehand.
So, when he sits to do the ordering himself, he can add 1 to the total.
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dracpanzer wrote: All these predictions of sales mean nothing if the rules suck. A bad dex will chop the legs right out from under this release.
Sisters will be lucky to get back what viability they lost from the index. Which will still leave them far behind.
Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
And to that end, I do see GW introducing an Inqusition book.
If they were wise in my opinion,
they would be pushing this with whatever new Eisenhorn TV show they are part of now ...
Go the fantastic tales and fantastic creature in space route.
Designing Sisters to be a soup ingredient would be stupid. They don't work all that well with other imperial forces due to their odd range banding (sisters operate best at between 6-12" any closer or farther and they lose a lot of damage).
Almost anything Sisters can do for a different army could be done better by guard or space marines. The one exception being psychic defense.
More than that though, designing an army as large as the SoB is (i.e. a bit more than half of a fully fleshed out force with greater unit variety than GK or harlies) to be an allied force is designing them to fail. You'll sell the same 3 kits (Best HQ, Troop, Best overall unit) and the entire rest of the line will stagnate.
ERJAK wrote: Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
Old players aren't really GW's main target group though. It's the kids who buy army or two and then it's time to move to the next kid to sell his army and be done. Veterans with old armies are of interest only as a marketing tool to draw in the next kid.
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ERJAK wrote: The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
You just said exact reason why they aren't too worried about "oh bohoo it's just old models plastic so old players don't buy"...Old players don't make it worthwhile alone anyway. They need and are aiming for people with zero sisters before. I'm much more of their target group than existing sister player because I don't have them yet at all and certainly are tempted(only LOTR and AT are keeping it not from immediate start the army)
My greater point is that without an actual fully functioning army, the release is unlikely to draw in too many new players. The beta codex basically just had us as boring, short range weaker space marines. Answering the question 'so what does the army play like?' with 'If you wanna win? Poxwalker horde. MAYBE some vehicle stuff if you're a good enough player.' Isn't going to appeal to very many people.
On the other side, people who would be primarily interested in them for the models are either small purchasers buying the few models they really like for allied detachments and painting projects, or excuse factories who say stuff like 'well I would buy a new sisters army but LOTR yunno?'
To get a significant number of consistent long term purchasers , especially for an only minimally established line, you need good models, good lore, good rules, and good customization(whether through kits or army construction). So far they've only gotten half of those, despite having plenty of opportunity to get at least 3/4ths.
Shadenuat wrote: May be just a feeling but I think new sisters bawx will be in sold out before you could blink.
Great rhino beautification kit by the way.
I already saved my beer money and gave half up front to the local store manager with express intent that this is a down payment on that box.
Maybe not a guarantee, but I also hope to save up the rest to give him next month, meaning paid in full beforehand.
So, when he sits to do the ordering himself, he can add 1 to the total.
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dracpanzer wrote: All these predictions of sales mean nothing if the rules suck. A bad dex will chop the legs right out from under this release.
Sisters will be lucky to get back what viability they lost from the index. Which will still leave them far behind.
Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
And to that end, I do see GW introducing an Inqusition book.
If they were wise in my opinion,
they would be pushing this with whatever new Eisenhorn TV show they are part of now ...
Go the fantastic tales and fantastic creature in space route.
Designing Sisters to be a soup ingredient would be stupid. They don't work all that well with other imperial forces due to their odd range banding (sisters operate best at between 6-12" any closer or farther and they lose a lot of damage).
Almost anything Sisters can do for a different army could be done better by guard or space marines. The one exception being psychic defense.
More than that though, designing an army as large as the SoB is (i.e. a bit more than half of a fully fleshed out force with greater unit variety than GK or harlies) to be an allied force is designing them to fail. You'll sell the same 3 kits (Best HQ, Troop, Best overall unit) and the entire rest of the line will stagnate.
Also, that's not what mary sue means.
True with some of the older players who have an already established SoB army with metals and older plastic kits might only pick up the new stuff and maybe a couple of the new base kits ( like the new Battle sisters squad box, or just a couple of the characters). My SoB army while not small but not large I'll be getting plastics to match the current foot soldiers I have as well as new units and such, while I have a SoB army I would count myself among those who have an army and will be picking up a lot of the new Sisters stuff when it comes out. It's not like all of the old players who have armies won't be getting any of the new SoB stuff.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
Just an idea.
It wouldn't upset me if that was how they wanted to represent an Exorcist even though I have an unbuilt plastic/ metal one!
In fact, that wouldn't be a bad thing if I had two that were completely different.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
Just an idea.
I guess thats possible, but it seems weird to me. if GWis going to the trouble of giving some of the vehicles the Demios look, why not all of them? Why mix and match?
Fluff wise, it seems like all the Sister's Rhinos would come from the same Forgeworld, and if that Forgeworld could supply different versions they'd just choose the most effective one, or at least the one that fit their needs. Specialized vehicles would nstead recieve more ornate decoratiosn (as we've seen with Sisters vehicles in the past.
Maybe theres another reason. right now it just seems strange to me.
Oh I agree it's odd. Was 100% expecting deimos pattern rhino. Just trying to come up with SOME in universe explanation so best I can come up with deimos patterns are hard to produce and rarer so using those for the more specialised variants is easier than as ubiquous transport while emphazising their sacred statue as irreplacable relic.
Elbows wrote: I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
Given the way the Rhino kits work and the number of kits based on the chassis, I wonder if they’re planning on any replacement just being a new hull sprue, that can be rebooted with the existing upgrade frames for the various kits.
Elbows wrote: I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
Given the way the Rhino kits work and the number of kits based on the chassis, I wonder if they’re planning on any replacement just being a new hull sprue, that can be rebooted with the existing upgrade frames for the various kits.
Yeah, I think overall it bodes poorly. It means the CSM are unlikely to get a new Rhino...maybe ever, lol. I was hoping the Sisters one would be a new plastic Deimos pattern which would in turn be used for HH plastics....provide a new basis for a more visually distinct CSM Rhino, etc. Knowing GW's extremely long-in-the-tooth practices for plastic kits, it just shocks me you're being saddled with a slightly upgraded old kit for....a loooooong time.
A proper Deimos line would have made quite a bit of sense. Perhaps the Deimos previews will be the basis for another Sisters vehicle and that will be shifted over to HH/CSM, or some such.
I was talking to my local GW store manager yesterday about the SoB box. He only gets info second hand and has made some assumptions. Apparently GW consider that fine cast was only a stop gap after rapid rise in price of pewter. They obviously want to stop production of metal miniatures due to price of raw materials.
He speculated on the contents of the box. He thinks the codex will be the limited edition version. Models wise he expects a sisters squad, a cannonness, a retributor squad. After that he wasn’t sure, but maybe a penitent engine. He said the rumour of there being a 3 woman squad of Seraphim seems unlikely. He’s hoping that there will be a tank inside the box. He expects the price to be £150, although did mention there were rumours of it being over £200, which seems unlikely to me, but who knows?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm not entirely sure why we even need a new Rhino in the first place...
The Rhino is fine but I suspect a full redo of the army means GW isn't satisfied with the current upgrade sprue anymore. The level of detail of the ornaments may not match the standard the entire rest of the army will have, and more importantly the gunner is going to look obviously inferior to any new Sisters.
Geifer wrote: The Rhino is fine but I suspect a full redo of the army means GW isn't satisfied with the current upgrade sprue anymore. The level of detail of the ornaments may not match the standard the entire rest of the army will have, and more importantly the gunner is going to look obviously inferior to any new Sisters.
Well a redone Sisters vehicle sprue is a given - we've already seen it.
I'm just surprised that people are so torn up about there not being a new Rhino when the current Rhino remains the single most modular thing in the GW range.
The weirdness is that they seemed to have made a completely new bespoke Deimos chassis for Immolator and/or Exorcist... and then do not use it for the Sisters Rihino as well.
phillv85 wrote: He speculated on the contents of the box. He thinks the codex will be the limited edition version. Models wise he expects a sisters squad, a cannonness, a retributor squad. After that he wasn’t sure, but maybe a penitent engine. He said the rumour of there being a 3 woman squad of Seraphim seems unlikely.
Geifer wrote: The Rhino is fine but I suspect a full redo of the army means GW isn't satisfied with the current upgrade sprue anymore. The level of detail of the ornaments may not match the standard the entire rest of the army will have, and more importantly the gunner is going to look obviously inferior to any new Sisters.
Well a redone Sisters vehicle sprue is a given - we've already seen it.
I'm just surprised that people are so torn up about there not being a new Rhino when the current Rhino remains the single most modular thing in the GW range.
Pretty much what Crimson said. The first Battle Sister Bulletin introduced us to the idea that Sisters vehicles would be built on the Deimos pattern. I don't know if that was people just reading too much into the article. I certainly got that impression from it, but since I like the current Rhino just fine I have no reason to express any disappointment over the obvious lack of the Deimos hull in the new Rhino kit.
But whether justified or not, it did give the widespread impression that henceforth Sisters vehicles would be Deimos pattern if built on the Rhino chassis. Hence the disappointment to not see it happen.
phillv85 wrote: He speculated on the contents of the box. He thinks the codex will be the limited edition version. Models wise he expects a sisters squad, a cannonness, a retributor squad. After that he wasn’t sure, but maybe a penitent engine. He said the rumour of there being a 3 woman squad of Seraphim seems unlikely.
Geifer wrote: The first Battle Sister Bulletin introduced us to the idea that Sisters vehicles would be built on the Deimos pattern.
Did it though? It presented a bunch of parts, parts that some people assumed were a full kit, others upgrades for the existing Rhino.
I think you said it: People were reading too much into the article.
Like I said, I don't know if it was justified. Just that that's how it was talked about afterwards. I don't recall seeing anyone challenge that perception at the time.
Geifer wrote: The first Battle Sister Bulletin introduced us to the idea that Sisters vehicles would be built on the Deimos pattern.
Did it though? It presented a bunch of parts, parts that some people assumed were a full kit, others upgrades for the existing Rhino.
I think you said it: People were reading too much into the article.
The pieces in that article are not the same than we're seeing in this Rhino upgrade, nor could the have feasibly worked as an upgrade for the old Rhino. It would have required full new side panels at the minimum.
phillv85 wrote: He speculated on the contents of the box. He thinks the codex will be the limited edition version. Models wise he expects a sisters squad, a cannonness, a retributor squad. After that he wasn’t sure, but maybe a penitent engine. He said the rumour of there being a 3 woman squad of Seraphim seems unlikely.
I'd assume the Hospitaller, too, but not the Rhino. Unless the figure of 25 models we were given turns out incorrect. Four Repentias doesn't make sense in 8th ed since the Mistress is a lone character now. She'll be a clampack character and Repentias should be a kit of five (or ten) models. Even if turns out to be a Shadowspear type box, there's a codex in there and the Repentia rules should be based on the eventual full kit. Having an undersized Repentia squad in there would just be odd.
Crimson wrote: The pieces in that article are not the same than we're seeing in this Rhino upgrade, nor could the have feasibly worked as an upgrade for the old Rhino. It would have required full new side panels at the minimum.
They could be for the Immolator and/or Exorcist kits.
Crimson wrote: The pieces in that article are not the same than we're seeing in this Rhino upgrade, nor could the have feasibly worked as an upgrade for the old Rhino. It would have required full new side panels at the minimum.
They could be for the Immolator and/or Exorcist kits.
Yes, they probably are!
The question remains: if they go through the trouble of designing a new, highly detailed Deimos chassis with SoB iconography, then why not use that chassis for their Rhino as well?
No, people are assuming that these parts can't possibly fit on the new Rhino. There's nothing to suggest that they can't.
People want that to be true. Doesn't make it true.
The side stacks and doors don’t fit on to the existing rhino. The sidestacks on the existing rhino are built in, and the doors we saw are the round Deimos style ones.
ImAGeek wrote: The side stacks and doors don’t fit on to the existing rhino. The sidestacks on the existing rhino are built in, and the doors we saw are the round Deimos style ones.
GW isn't above building some pretty interesting plastic add-ons that change the shape of their designs.
Crimson wrote: We were just discussing the previewed Deimos bits.
Parts you assume are Deimos bits. Part you assume don't fit. Even the FW Deimos is still a regular Rhino with a conversion kit.
So there's no reason to assume that there will be a new Rhino. Hell, given we've seen the Sisters Rhino kit and it's not a new Rhino, that only makes it less likely that there's a new Rhino lurking somewhere inside an Immolator/Exorcist kit.
ImAGeek wrote: The side stacks and doors don’t fit on to the existing rhino. The sidestacks on the existing rhino are built in, and the doors we saw are the round Deimos style ones.
GW isn't above building some pretty interesting plastic add-ons that change the shape of their designs.
Crimson wrote: We were just discussing the previewed Deimos bits.
Parts you assume are Deimos bits. Part you assume don't fit. Even the FW Deimos is still a regular Rhino with a conversion kit.
So there's no reason to assume that there will be a new Rhino. Hell, given we've seen the Sisters Rhino kit and it's not a new Rhino, that only makes it less likely that there's a new Rhino lurking somewhere inside an Immolator/Exorcist kit.
They’re literally called Deimos bits in the article, so no ones assuming there. I don’t know if anyone means an entirely new rhino kit, just enough parts (like the FW one) to make it Deimos, rather than Mars pattern. I don’t overly care about the underside being the same, as it’s just a plastic slab. We know there’s not a new rhino now, but the first article made it seem like there would be.
Whether it is a full new kit or just Deimos side panels, the question remains the same. Why not use them for the Rhino?
Also, if you look at the current Rhinos sprues, from production perspective it doesn't make much sense to keep the old sprues if you're replacing the doors and sidepanels anyway.
Crimson wrote: Whether it is a full new kit or just Deimos side panels, the question remains the same. Why not use them for the Rhino?
They might want the 'bigger' tanks to look different. Who knows?
Crimson wrote: Also, if you look at the current Rhinos sprues, from production perspective it doesn't make much sense to keep the old sprues if you're replacing the doors and sidepanels anyway.
Didn't stop them with the Hunter. And why make an entirely new tank from scratch when making one that fits with the existing chassis is easier and more cost effective?
Now I don't know about you, but that upgrade sprue has none of the older bits shown off. In fact, that corner, the doors and the stacks won't even fit on the old Rhino (the corner has a bit sticking out that would hit the stack, the doors can't cover the rectangular hole and the stacks are integrated into the side panel). Besides, in the first post GW says:
The new vehicles being designed for the Adepta Sororitas represent the more antiquated Deimos-pattern Rhino STC.
Followed by:
Another feature of the Deimos-pattern Rhino chassis is...
So here, GW clearly states Deimos chassis, which does not imply a simple upgrade sprue to me.
Even if the new rhino is just mars pattern, it seems to me that there will be another Rhino that uses all those Deimos bits. My conclusion is that the Deimos kit will be the primary one for all their vehicles, but if you prefer the mars pattern you can just buy it with the upgrade sprue.
Crimson wrote: Also, if you look at the current Rhinos sprues, from production perspective it doesn't make much sense to keep the old sprues if you're replacing the doors and sidepanels anyway.
Except if it saves you from trouble of designing 3rd sprue. Old sprue, upgrade sprue and then new sprue replacing parts of the old sprue that's still used anyway. If they can't fit all the parts from the original sprue into the one new sprue but have to create 2nd new sprue that costs a lot of money.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dandelion wrote: Now I don't know about you, but that upgrade sprue has none of the older bits shown off. In fact, that corner, the doors and the stacks won't even fit on the old Rhino (the corner has a bit sticking out that would hit the stack, the doors can't cover the rectangular hole and the stacks are integrated into the side panel). Besides, in the first post GW says:
The new vehicles being designed for the Adepta Sororitas represent the more antiquated Deimos-pattern Rhino STC.
Followed by:
Maybe gw doesn't consider rhino new vehicle?
I stick with my suspicion that the deimos will be used for the vehicles that aren't as ubiquous as transport.
Crimson wrote: Also, if you look at the current Rhinos sprues, from production perspective it doesn't make much sense to keep the old sprues if you're replacing the doors and sidepanels anyway.
Didn't stop them with the Hunter. And why make an entirely new tank from scratch when making one that fits with the existing chassis is easier and more cost effective?
Hunter sidepanels go over the noemal Rhino sidepanes, the same cannot be true for Deimos. Replacing whole sprues (that's two different sprues on the Rhino) containing the sidepanels and doors (and thus other bits on that sprue) is more cost effective, because then you don't need to print and include redundant sprues.
Sprues are essentially free for GW. It's # of new sprues you have to design that costs. So if they have to design 2 new sprues to avoid having to cast 1 extra sprue bohoo. Doing it like FW and have original rhino + additional parts is fast much more cost effective.
Battle Sister Bulletin – Part 17: Capital Punishment… on Legs!
In this Battle Sister Bulletin, we’re checking in with everyone’s favourite execution machine of excruciating death – the Penitent Engine! This particular model features in the Adepta Sororitas: Sisters of Battle Army Set, which is on its way in November, so today we’re taking a closer look at the miniature’s incredible design. But before we do, let’s remind ourselves exactly what these horrific creations are all about…
What We Know
Life in the 41st Millennium is pretty bleak at best, but to delve into the background of the Penitent Engine is to gaze into some of the very grimmest and darkest parts of the far future. Brace yourself – this is not for the faint of heart!
The Ecclesiarchy is unflinching in its punishment of those who commit crimes against the Emperor.* Those judged guilty of the most heinous acts of treachery and betrayal are condemned to die – not by the executioner’s blade, nor even by immolation at the stake,** but as the pilot of a Penitent Engine…
Once wired into the Penitent Engine’s crucible, the convict is as good as dead, for once they are neurally bonded there’s no coming back from the physical and mental trauma inflicted upon them by the machine’s torment amplifiers.*** From that point onwards, the hapless sinner becomes little more than a pain-fuelled berserker, wildly lashing out at cruelly engineered projections of their own crimes as they seek desperate penance in an apoplectic, terminal rampage.****
For their part, the Adepta Sororitas often make use of Penitent Engines. Not only do the Battle Sisters see it as their solemn duty to witness the punishment of the condemned, but the wanton destruction that the Penitent Engines can unleash makes them highly effective – but entirely expendable – auxiliary assets.
The Model
The Penitent Engine is a lethal device – both for its unfortunate pilot and those facing it in battle. It shares the aesthetics of a crude torture machine, with wrought iron and wooden elements layered on top of its otherwise minimalist structure. Given the intentionally disposable nature of the Penitent Engine’s occupant, every expense will have been spared in its construction, the one embellishment being the Ecclesiarchy symbol at its crown.
The Penitent Engine’s hollow main alcove – referred to as a crucible – is designed to accommodate its condemned occupant in whatever torturous stress position they’re bound in.***** Judging by his curled fingers and toes, not to mention the pained expression on his face, it’s fair to say this particular prisoner looks… less than comfortable! His emaciated body and ragged clothing also imply that he’s been incarcerated for some time, waiting on death row for his appointed time of execution in battle.
A visor covers the scalp and eyes of the Penitent Engine’s occupant,****** through which he is neurally overstimulated with pain via a series of umbilical cables, while racks of stimms and combat drug injectors run the length of his spinal column. Around his neck, a heavy weight has been hung, bearing his penitent number. There is no lock and key for his neck clamp – once it’s fastened, that’s it!
Even though the Penitent Engine has a stripped-down aesthetic for massed production, the weaponry is still more advanced than the crude buzz-saws and burnas of Ork Deff Dread and Killa Kans. The circular blades, in particular, feature deep indentations to ensure that they won’t get clogged up with viscera or the torn hulls of the Penitent Engine’s victims.
You can look forward to getting your own Penitent Engine in the Adepta Sororitas: Sisters of Battle Army Set later this year. Until then, make sure you’ve got the existing plastic miniatures, Celestine and Amalia Novena, painted in readiness for the new models. We’ll be back in a couple of weeks with your next Battle Sister Bulletin.
* As the saying goes: ‘To err once is human; to err twice is treachery.’
** Those methods are so 40,000 years ago!
*** To be fair, we doubt they’d want to after what they go through!
**** We recommend staying at a safe distance at this point.
***** Being bound to a wooden beam in this manner was apparently called ‘planking’ – and no, you wouldn’t want to post a picture online if you’re planking like this…
****** We like to think he’s in his happy place… but we somehow doubt it!
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