ductvader wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My normal list is 2 Flyrants, Terv, gants, 6 dakkafexes, Tyrannofex. I'm debating dropping the Tyranno.

Weren't you running some Warrior Broods before? My Stranglers always do some work...but an exocrine might be worth playing with.

Yeah, I was thinking I was but I'm away from my books so not sure on points.
I hate Exocrines. I've tried one for about 7 games - 5 at the Railhead Rumble. That weekend my Exocrine killed 3 models. Total. Throughout 5 games.
Maybe I'm just using him wrong. Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My normal list is 2 Flyrants, Terv, gants, 6 dakkafexes, Tyrannofex. I'm debating dropping the Tyranno.

You certainly could, with that many Carnifexen, I'd recomend a Mawloc (not everybody likes 'em, but I do ) That should save a few points to spend else where...

I refuse to use Trygons, Mawlocs or Raveners. I don't like the snake aesthetic.

I'm torn between two very different lists for my next game...

I can either go all-out with Walkrants, plus an outflanking Terivgon. That's four tough psyker synapse units with at least 6 wounds (warlord effectively has 10), plus lots of Pinning from the Living Artillery:



Or I can take a variant of ductvader's Endless Swarm, using all my Trygons to keep the pressure on:

That Endless Swarm is your own man.

You're taking Trygons for the tunnels more than the synapse...save points and keep 1-2 of them not primes.

rigeld2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My normal list is 2 Flyrants, Terv, gants, 6 dakkafexes, Tyrannofex. I'm debating dropping the Tyranno.

Weren't you running some Warrior Broods before? My Stranglers always do some work...but an exocrine might be worth playing with.

Yeah, I was thinking I was but I'm away from my books so not sure on points.
I hate Exocrines. I've tried one for about 7 games - 5 at the Railhead Rumble. That weekend my Exocrine killed 3 models. Total. Throughout 5 games.
Maybe I'm just using him wrong. Who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My normal list is 2 Flyrants, Terv, gants, 6 dakkafexes, Tyrannofex. I'm debating dropping the Tyranno.

You certainly could, with that many Carnifexen, I'd recomend a Mawloc (not everybody likes 'em, but I do ) That should save a few points to spend else where...

I refuse to use Trygons, Mawlocs or Raveners. I don't like the snake aesthetic.

Big Wormey is sad... Well that puts you into the "don't like 'em " category Dropping a Tyrano should free up a big chunk of points, but you don't like many of the alternates...more Carnifexen?

Maybe you can stuff in a cheap Formation, though even a "cheap" one runs 350+...the only place left to look is a Crone, or Harpy?

I'd personally nab a Venom and 2 x 3 Strangler Warriors. It should slide right into those points.

I bought a Harpy kit and a TL HVC is calling my name I think.

rigeld2 wrote:
I bought a Harpy kit and a TL HVC is calling my name I think.

On those occassions where you need your fexes to win combat...the Harpy's Shriek is quite excellent as well

I'd also recommend Biovores.

pinecone77 wrote:
Maybe you can stuff in a cheap Formation, though even a "cheap" one runs 350+...the only place left to look is a Crone, or Harpy?

Honestly, I wish the Haruspex was better. I absolutely love the model. I love the idea of it.

The WS3 just pisses all over it though. And I just don't get it - how is a creature that is literally the epitome of evolution in eating things that are actively resisting only WS3?

Well now.

Charity tournament on this Saturday with the 1800 list. Should be a good run to test before the local club tournament the next weekend. Just to remind folks of the rules behind this...

No Formations, No Fortifications, No Forge World
Allies are allowed - for the purpose of this Tyranids can ally with Tyranids.
Must use the same Psychic Disciplines through the day.

My planned list is as follows...

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

3 Tyranid Warriors - 2 Deathspitters, Barbed Strangler
15 Termagants - Fleshborers
10 Termagants - Spinefists
10 Termagants - Spinefists

Crone
Crone

Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers
Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers

*Allies*

Flyrant - Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Bonesword, Shreddershard Grubs

Zoanthrope

10 Termagants - Fleshborers

Now, I got to thinking a bit over Easter and now. With regards to what I think I fear? Hmm...

Tau. Eldar.

If I come across a Grav Spam SM army it may sting a fair bit.

But, at the same time I've had my first outing against Tau. Oh dear Lord Crones do bad things to Crisis suits. Such bad, bad things. My opponent's face when he realised the Vector strike wasn't AP - as he had believed....

People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

Never...now a Tervigon or Tyranno...

 ductvader wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

Never...now a Tervigon or Tyranno...

A BS / LW Flyrant should take a Thorax Weapon. But for Dakkaflyrants, just stick with the Devs, and add 2 more gaunts.

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

The reason for the Thorax swarms - D3 automatic Haywire hits on a dread/walker that charges you. Also consider that Overwatch is Bs1 - even twin linked, D3 auto hits is mighty tasty.

Plus Devourers don't even dent AV13 or AV14.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

The reason for the Thorax swarms - D3 automatic Haywire hits on a dread/walker that charges you. Also consider that Overwatch is Bs1 - even twin linked, D3 auto hits is mighty tasty.

Plus Devourers don't even dent AV13 or AV14.

Yeah they do...just from the other side of the tank.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

The reason for the Thorax swarms - D3 automatic Haywire hits on a dread/walker that charges you. Also consider that Overwatch is Bs1 - even twin linked, D3 auto hits is mighty tasty.

Plus Devourers don't even dent AV13 or AV14.

S5 ap5 ignores cover - ESG can put serious dents in pesky scoring units, even eradicating some completely. Other times it helps remove a handful before you finish the unit off in combat.

For 10 pts I'll take a s5 flamer every time. Haywire is just a bonus.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

The reason for the Thorax swarms - D3 automatic Haywire hits on a dread/walker that charges you.

I've pretty much never been charged by walkers. YMMV.

Also consider that Overwatch is Bs1 - even twin linked, D3 auto hits is mighty tasty.

12 shots TL - 3-4 hits S6 even at BS1. It's why I use dakkafexes as AA.

Plus Devourers don't even dent AV13 or AV14.

Sure. Those are for punching.

What's the best loadout for Shrikes? I've just picked up some cheap FW wings and have 6 spare Warriors to use. I'm tempted to run them with ScyTals, Rending Claws and AG because they could probably use them, but my common sense is telling me it's 6E so stop being silly and shoot stuff.

I'm far too lazy to magnetise them.

 xttz wrote:
What's the best loadout for Shrikes? I've just picked up some cheap FW wings and have 6 spare Warriors to use. I'm tempted to run them with ScyTals, Rending Claws and AG because they could probably use them, but my common sense is telling me it's 6E so stop being silly and shoot stuff.

I'm far too lazy to magnetise them.

So I go against the grain, and I magnetize things according to it's role in the FOC. IE, I put my wings on my raveners as they are both fast attack. 27 raveners magnetized with wings can be 27 shrikes. Meanwhile I still can play my warriors as is. Plus it gives them that "Quetzalcoatl" look that the ladies love.

Loadout should depend on role.
Either they're raveners that don't need a synapse node of their own using something along the lines of scytals/rending claws/spinefists.
Or you play them like DE scourges/mobile synapse node and use them as mobile fire suppresion and use things like strangler/double deathspitter/rending claws.

 xttz wrote:
What's the best loadout for Shrikes? I've just picked up some cheap FW wings and have 6 spare Warriors to use. I'm tempted to run them with ScyTals, Rending Claws and AG because they could probably use them, but my common sense is telling me it's 6E so stop being silly and shoot stuff.

I'm far too lazy to magnetise them.

I have 6 magnetized shrikes. I regularly run 2 with BS + LW + STs (Marine Killers) and 4 with RC + STs (Vehicles/MC/Terminator killers), and I give them all flesh hooks. I don't think shooty Shrikes are the way to go. I would rather get them in CC as soon as possible. Flesh Hooks give you some shooting, that because of its limited range you aren't going to kill yourself out of charge range, they provide overwatch, and they can pop transports to get at the yummy meat inside.

I don't do AGs, because Strength isn't usually a problem for them, and you can reroll charges if you don't use their jump packs in movement (Move 6 instead of 12).

For their points, you aren't ever going to get good value out of Shrike shooting.

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

One of my Flyrants is equipped with the Reaper, so it doesn't have a second set of devourers to shoot.

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

I agree that its a "not optimal" buy, but I assume its there for anti-Knights, though he did not buy it for the Winged assasain... The only thing I'd do differant though is dropping one Hive off a Dakka'rant, and buy Toxin for the assaain, and thats just because I obsessivly buy Toxic for the LW/BS combo (and I'd change the Rending bugs to Electro to get two templates of Haywire )

pinecone77 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

I agree that its a "not optimal" buy, but I assume its there for anti-Knights, though he did not buy it for the Winged assasain... The only thing I'd do differant though is dropping one Hive off a Dakka'rant, and buy Toxin for the assaain, and thats just because I obsessivly buy Toxic for the LW/BS combo (and I'd change the Rending bugs to Electro to get two templates of Haywire )

I got the Shreddershards on the Assassin. Really, I sort of want to use him to jump on small squads. Like command squads. And a rending template seems tempting for that. To each thing a purpose and a purpose it must stick. If I try to make the melee small squad bully into a tank killer it won't work so well. With the Dakka Flyrants - well, if something gets stripped to a single hull point I'm just going to fly up and Electrogrub it rather than risk 12 shots that may or may not roll a glance.

Ummm, electroshock wounds a command squad on 2+ and ignores their armor. Shreddershards wound on 4s and only ignore armor 1/6 of the time.
I still say ESG are the tac choice, whether you're facing infantry or tanks.

I believe that JY would agree with me that giving up the devourers on the Shrikes is a bad idea...they get it for free and it's a pretty bad@ss gun for an effective 30" range.

If you want scytals...you should have taken Raveners.

Now I personally take Rending Claws on my Shrikes, Flesh Hooks, and I give 2-3 of them Boneswords...no Lash Whip necessary. And don't waste points upgrading their front ranks when they'll just die expensively instead of just dying.

 ductvader wrote:
I believe that JY would agree with me that giving up the devourers on the Shrikes is a bad idea...they get it for free and it's a pretty bad@ss gun for an effective 30" range.

If you want scytals...you should have taken Raveners.

Now I personally take Rending Claws on my Shrikes, Flesh Hooks, and I give 2-3 of them Boneswords...no Lash Whip necessary. And don't waste points upgrading their front ranks when they'll just die expensively instead of just dying.

Shrike's main protection come from being in close combat. Devourers jeopardize that by having the potential to kill enough units so that you fail the charge. If you take Devourers you should drop flesh hooks and take AG instead to have a better chance to make the charge.

Also the shooting profile of Flesh hooks is nothing to laugh at. 2 S6 shots. Compare that to 3 S4 shots or 3 S5 shots:
Flesh hooks are better against everything but T3 than Devourers. In fact they are better at T6+ than deathspitters.
Flesh Hooks are better at popping armor than Devourers or Deathspitters.
Flesh Hooks are better at overwatch against everything but T3 than devourers and better at anything T6+ than deathspitters. Also better against most walkers (AV13 still can't touch).

The only place Flesh hooks fall down is range. I think it is a good philosophy that if you are 10+" away from an enemy unit, you should be running instead of shooting. That way you have a better chance of getting HOW and rerolling charge distances. If your are within 6", Flesh hooks are great at shooting. It is the same reason JY prefers 2 TL-devourers on Carnifexes. You lose one turn of shooting, but gain an earlier charge possibility.

And when you do get into assault, doing 25% more attacks is worth it.

Shrikes main protect and reason for being taken actually comes from having units around it that it is supporting.

Running shrikes means you should have Raveners Gargoyles, Sky Slashers, Hormagaunts, Stock Trygons or Adrenal Fexes in front of them.

This is where you're going to have the most success with Shrikes. Staying back and shooting while not being the primary target. (Just like Warriors)

UNLESS: You take A LOT of them.



If you're looking for a fast combat unit...go with Raveners.
Fast Synapse and Assault...Trygon Prime.
Fast supporting synapse with a big footprint...those are your Shrikes.



My 8 Shrikes are always hanging around 40+ hormagaunts or 14 Raveners.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
People using the thorax swarms - you do realize that firing that stops you from firing a devourer, right? They lost the rule they used to have.

6 shots at BS4 TL is 5 hits, on average a glance against AV12. So really all you're doing is helping yourself against AV13 or 14 at very short range - against AV10 or 11 it's actually better to fire the Devs.

Is it really worth spending those points on a Flyrant?

I agree that its a "not optimal" buy, but I assume its there for anti-Knights, though he did not buy it for the Winged assasain... The only thing I'd do differant though is dropping one Hive off a Dakka'rant, and buy Toxin for the assaain, and thats just because I obsessivly buy Toxic for the LW/BS combo (and I'd change the Rending bugs to Electro to get two templates of Haywire )

I got the Shreddershards on the Assassin. Really, I sort of want to use him to jump on small squads. Like command squads. And a rending template seems tempting for that. To each thing a purpose and a purpose it must stick. If I try to make the melee small squad bully into a tank killer it won't work so well. With the Dakka Flyrants - well, if something gets stripped to a single hull point I'm just going to fly up and Electrogrub it rather than risk 12 shots that may or may not roll a glance.

Makes sense...I didn't say I'd replace the Hive with Toxic for a Good reason I agree that if you got the points, (and it is pretty cheap) buy it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I was doodling around during breakfast again...and I was looking at enhancing my "Endless Tunnel Assault" concept, by maximising the regeneration of units including upgrades....

Endless Tunnel, enhanced:

Winged Assassin, or Winged Dakka'rant Hive Commander, 250

Warrior Brood: x3, Deathspitters x2, Rending Claws x2, Cannon 120
Warrior Brood, as above 120

Tyrgon Prime 230
Tyrgon Prime 230

Total cost 950

Endless Swarm: 792
Hormagaunts, x15 Toxic : x3 360
Spinegaunts, x14 +6 Devilgaunts : x3 312
Warrior Brood, as above 120

That should total 1742.... toss in one more Devilgaunt, and done!
adding 100 to get to 1850 is a little bit of a puzzle...

Zoey Brood x2 a no brainer!....but...
Venothrope Brood x2, Thorax hive on Winged Assassin this just looks better.....
I suppose you could use a Lictor Brood? I guess it depends on what figures you own

Tacticly it looks simple to use. Just Outflank a Spinegaunt Brood(the one with the extra Devil ), Deepstrike in the Big Wormeys, Run the Hormies in an assault triangle. And use the Assassin as a "fireman". Camp the Warriors on VP points and snipe with the Cannons...

It should be hard to mess up with such a simple style of play, the only source of "worry" is placing the Tunnel Markers....

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Ummm, electroshock wounds a command squad on 2+ and ignores their armor. Shreddershards wound on 4s and only ignore armor 1/6 of the time.
I still say ESG are the tac choice, whether you're facing infantry or tanks.

I've yet to come across a SM command squad with a 5+ armour save....

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Ummm, electroshock wounds a command squad on 2+ and ignores their armor. Shreddershards wound on 4s and only ignore armor 1/6 of the time.
I still say ESG are the tac choice, whether you're facing infantry or tanks.

I've yet to come across a SM command squad with a 5+ armour save....

They're moon-lighting as guardsmen, shhh don't tell anyone.

Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

Thing is a lot of the time with a command squad or centurions if I'm in template range with my Flyrant I'll just assualt and kill them anyway.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

Thing is a lot of the time with a command squad or centurions if I'm in template range with my Flyrant I'll just assualt and kill them anyway.

Why not do both?

Template for the free chances of wounds/dead models and then assault, eh? Eh?!

Been testing this as my skyblight build. So far it has been doing fairly well. Looking to get some thoughts....

Primary:
HQ
2 x flyrant w 2tl devs

Elites:
Venomthorpe
Zoan

Troops:
2 x 10man gant units

FA:
Crone

HS
3 man biovore unit

Fort:
Skyshield

Formation
1 x flyrant 2tl devs
2 x harpy w/hvc
1 x crone
3 x 10man goyles


The bios and gants camp on the skyshield... venom under zoan behind a back leg... in most cases you can't even see the gants and even the bios to an extent.. the few things that can target them are going to give it the cover save... so rolling 2+ and 4++... I use the bios to bomb away.. I keep an objective under the SS for the gants... which allows me to use my goyles in a couple of different ways.

I've not faced a mech army yet and that tends to be where I think I'm going to have some issues... I have 20 points left over that I could use for electroshocks on 2 of the flyrants.... which I'm not yet sold on....

 ductvader wrote:
Shrikes main protect and reason for being taken actually comes from having units around it that it is supporting.

Running shrikes means you should have Raveners Gargoyles, Sky Slashers, Hormagaunts, Stock Trygons or Adrenal Fexes in front of them.

This is where you're going to have the most success with Shrikes. Staying back and shooting while not being the primary target. (Just like Warriors)

UNLESS: You take A LOT of them.

If you're looking for a fast combat unit...go with Raveners.
Fast Synapse and Assault...Trygon Prime.
Fast supporting synapse with a big footprint...those are your Shrikes.

My 8 Shrikes are always hanging around 40+ hormagaunts or 14 Raveners.

There is an argument to run 3 Shrikes with 2 Devourers + 1 BS, just like the standard warrior squad. However, if you want synapse support for anything like Adrenal fexes of HGaunts, IMO warriors are your better choice, because they can score objectives after the fexes have cleared them off. They are following the other units, so it doesn't matter if they are slow, and the 4+ armor gives them saves against basic weaponry like Bolters. Also, Venomthropes can keep up with them.

If you want synapse support for a fast unit. Like Gargoyles, Raveners, Crones, Harpies, Mawlocs, or Raveners, then Shrikes can be outfitted for CC because
1) they are either going to be a large enough squad to take some shooting, or a small enough squad that they are low on opponent target priority. Usually Flyrants are going to take most of the fire priority away from Shrikes.
2) Your fast units are going to take on the hard targets, so shrikes are good for picking off the softer ones, or throwing in with an assault already in progress.
3) Because of the 3 wounds, and the ability to do CC wound allocation shenanigans (you can change which model in base tanks wounds each imitative step), and the fearless that comes from synapse, they have good survivability in CC with softer targets.
4) The other fast units are going to either get into CC or do something like Burrow or fly off the board, so shooty Shrikes can end up being the only non-engaged target for your opponent to shoot at.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roci wrote:
HS
3 man biovore unit

Because you have extra HS slots, I would suggest you split up the biovores. That way missing on your fist scatter isn't as catastrophic, and you have the potential to spawn more spore mines.

Otherwise the list looks great. For certain matchups you might want to drop one biovore for a 2nd Zoey. That gives you a bit more chance to score additional objectives.

tag8833 wrote:

The only place Flesh hooks fall down is range. I think it is a good philosophy that if you are 10+" away from an enemy unit, you should be running instead of shooting. That way you have a better chance of getting HOW and rerolling charge distances. If your are within 6", Flesh hooks are great at shooting. It is the same reason JY prefers 2 TL-devourers on Carnifexes. You lose one turn of shooting, but gain an earlier charge possibility.

And when you do get into assault, doing 25% more attacks is worth it.

Not sure i fallow that part. 2 TL-devourers makes you lost a turn of shooting but gives earlier charge? O.o

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

Thing is a lot of the time with a command squad or centurions if I'm in template range with my Flyrant I'll just assualt and kill them anyway.

Why not do both?

Template for the free chances of wounds/dead models and then assault, eh? Eh?!

Because you want to leave 1 model standing at the end of your assault phase - so you can't be shot during his shooting phase.
Dropping the Template makes overkill more likely.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

Thing is a lot of the time with a command squad or centurions if I'm in template range with my Flyrant I'll just assualt and kill them anyway.

Why not do both?

Template for the free chances of wounds/dead models and then assault, eh? Eh?!

Because you want to leave 1 model standing at the end of your assault phase - so you can't be shot during his shooting phase.
Dropping the Template makes overkill more likely.

What Rigeld said.

Plus because Nids aren't short of ways of dealing with infantry, I think a ant-vehicle template has more uses. Especially when Guard parking lots start turning up again. How many Russes do you think you can fit under one template.

Shreddershard is the only one I regularly use because marines like to drop on my tervigon...and he's gotten sick of it.

 ductvader wrote:
Shreddershard is the only one I regularly use because marines like to drop on my tervigon...and he's gotten sick of it.

He? That's one odd terv.... just saying.

Addaran wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

The only place Flesh hooks fall down is range. I think it is a good philosophy that if you are 10+" away from an enemy unit, you should be running instead of shooting. That way you have a better chance of getting HOW and rerolling charge distances. If your are within 6", Flesh hooks are great at shooting. It is the same reason JY prefers 2 TL-devourers on Carnifexes. You lose one turn of shooting, but gain an earlier charge possibility.

And when you do get into assault, doing 25% more attacks is worth it.

Not sure i fallow that part. 2 TL-devourers makes you lost a turn of shooting but gives earlier charge? O.o

18" range on a Carnifex that can only move 6" usually that means you aren't in range on turn 1, and so you RUN instead of shoot that turn. If you take a HVC or a STC then you are in range on turn 1 and shoot instead of run, thus you've lost distance that you would have run. That puts you D6" further away from making a charge. Also, it puts you in range of max firepower on turn 2 when you might not have been able to do that if you shot instead of ran.

 Roci wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Shreddershard is the only one I regularly use because marines like to drop on my tervigon...and he's gotten sick of it.

He? That's one odd terv.... just saying.

He's my only unit that takes it...and he shake and bakes marines with regularity.

 ductvader wrote:

 Roci wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Shreddershard is the only one I regularly use because marines like to drop on my tervigon...and he's gotten sick of it.

He? That's one odd terv.... just saying.

He's my only unit that takes it...and he shake and bakes marines with regularity.

The oddity is that your Tervigon's descended from Seahorses.

Wakshaani wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Roci wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Shreddershard is the only one I regularly use because marines like to drop on my tervigon...and he's gotten sick of it.

He? That's one odd terv.... just saying.

He's my only unit that takes it...and he shake and bakes marines with regularity.

The oddity is that your Tervigon's descended from Seahorses.

Gotcha...I've played Swarmy so much that I tend to think of my Tyranids all being masculine. I think I'm probably one of the only ones out their that doesn't submit to the whole Harpy/Crone/Dominatrix feminine ideology of bugs.

Tomorrow is my first tourney in 3 months (and only my 3rd in total), it's 1850 with no allies or dataslates, adepticon missions. I want to perform really well. I rebased my army, modified a Tyrant to also have 'twinlinked' devourers/devourer rifle, and now I have to decide whether to take an Exocrine or a Tyrannofex. Here is the list

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine


The first group is obviously in your face turn 1/2 and Tervigon is spawning/holding objectives on the opponents side.

The last 4 units start on board together and will move up together, obviously the gants out front, Warriors in the back for synapse and holding objectives late game, venomthrope saving lives and...either the Fex tanking and acid spraying Eldar/Tau troops mid field, or the Exocrine punching through White Scar bikes.

What do you guys think is best? The survivability of the Fex, or the killing power of the lone exocrine? Jy2, I would love to hear your thoughts if you're out there.

Wouldn't that be based off of what you think the majority of what your opponents are going to field? More Xenos or more Spess Mahreens?

No clue, its my new FLGS and have never done a tournament there, so I have no idea what to expect.

Considering you have a lot of answers for blobs (Crone Drool, Mawloc Pies) I would imagine the Exo would be more utility than a redundant flamer from the T-fex. I mean how much do you think you are going to get from +1 AC and a wound? And with the points you save, you can give that tervigon a thorax swarm. Tervigon's love swarms.

No, its a difference of -5 pts or точно 1850, so no template unfortunately.

 Iechine wrote:

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine

I agree that the Crone is better than the Harpy.

But I wonder if 2 Crones + 1 Harpy are better than 3 crones. The Harpy has some uses. The Imitative penalty can be helpful. It can drop spore mines. It can Pen vehicles more reliably and sometimes even hit more than one vehicle. S8 vector strike is better, but S6 vector strike still puts down marines and bikes easily. It is less dependent on perfect positioning to do work.

tag8833 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine

I agree that the Crone is better than the Harpy.

But I wonder if 2 Crones + 1 Harpy are better than 3 crones. The Harpy has some uses. The Imitative penalty can be helpful. It can drop spore mines. It can Pen vehicles more reliably and sometimes even hit more than one vehicle. S8 vector strike is better, but S6 vector strike still puts down marines and bikes easily. It is less dependent on perfect positioning to do work.

I still say exocrine. If you're doubling up monsters and can pretty much cordon off your venomthrope from sniping in general by putting bodies in the way, means the survivability of the blob is already relevantly high.

Either/or. Actually, only thing that really makes me nervous is Mawlocs with no Lictors/Deathleaper. (If you're thinking of dropping a crone)

tag8833 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine

I agree that the Crone is better than the Harpy.

But I wonder if 2 Crones + 1 Harpy are better than 3 crones. The Harpy has some uses. The Imitative penalty can be helpful. It can drop spore mines. It can Pen vehicles more reliably and sometimes even hit more than one vehicle. S8 vector strike is better, but S6 vector strike still puts down marines and bikes easily. It is less dependent on perfect positioning to do work.

The Harpy is great, but having enough vector strike angle's across the board (Especially Crisis suit killing ones) seems more beneficial than potentially assaulting with a Harpy. The twinlinked S9 HVC just isnt enough for me to consider.

captnobvious wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine

I agree that the Crone is better than the Harpy.

But I wonder if 2 Crones + 1 Harpy are better than 3 crones. The Harpy has some uses. The Imitative penalty can be helpful. It can drop spore mines. It can Pen vehicles more reliably and sometimes even hit more than one vehicle. S8 vector strike is better, but S6 vector strike still puts down marines and bikes easily. It is less dependent on perfect positioning to do work.

I still say exocrine. If you're doubling up monsters and can pretty much cordon off your venomthrope from sniping in general by putting bodies in the way, means the survivability of the blob is already relevantly high.

Either/or. Actually, only thing that really makes me nervous is Mawlocs with no Lictors/Deathleaper. (If you're thinking of dropping a crone)

If I were using 3xMawlocs, then Lictors came in. But that sort of list inevitably comes at the expense of scoring.

So, just curious. Considering the Mawloc attack is a STR6 Large Blast every other turn (effectively) anywhere on the board (no LOS needed) or the exo is a STR7 Large blast every turn (barring range). Like why would you pick one over the other?

Like I guess the pros/cons of the two comparatively is points value vs versatility?

 captnobvious wrote:
So, just curious. Considering the Mawloc attack is a STR6 Large Blast every other turn (effectively) anywhere on the board (no LOS needed) or the exo is a STR7 Large blast every turn (barring range). Like why would you pick one over the other?

Like I guess the pros/cons of the two comparatively is points value vs versatility?

Because the Mawloc isn''t about reburrowing at each opportunity and coming out Terrify every other turn. I swear some people don't read past that ability.

He's a S6/T6/W6 DEEPSTRIKING mc for 140 pts. The blast is just a bonus. Point for point, these things have as many attacks as Trygon's in close combat, you just aren't paying for a largely overpriced stat (5 WS) and get a free blast instead. They keep up with his aggressive assault FMC base, whereas Exocrine is situational. Locs are also 30 points cheaper.

 Iechine wrote:
Tomorrow is my first tourney in 3 months (and only my 3rd in total), it's 1850 with no allies or dataslates, adepticon missions. I want to perform really well. I rebased my army, modified a Tyrant to also have 'twinlinked' devourers/devourer rifle, and now I have to decide whether to take an Exocrine or a Tyrannofex. Here is the list

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine


The first group is obviously in your face turn 1/2 and Tervigon is spawning/holding objectives on the opponents side.

The last 4 units start on board together and will move up together, obviously the gants out front, Warriors in the back for synapse and holding objectives late game, venomthrope saving lives and...either the Fex tanking and acid spraying Eldar/Tau troops mid field, or the Exocrine punching through White Scar bikes.

What do you guys think is best? The survivability of the Fex, or the killing power of the lone exocrine? Jy2, I would love to hear your thoughts if you're out there.

I don't think either of them are the right answer to be honest, you have both of their roles already covered and they will just slow down your initial alpha strike. Take another Mawloc. I also think outflanking a 6 man Warrior unit will cost the same and do much more damage than that Tervigon. They will tear it up nicely in CC and really work well with your Mawloc's. Or just drop the unreliable outflanking troop unit, and spend 25 pts more on 5 lictors. These have 2 far more reliable entry methods than outflanking (infiltrate and no-scatter deepstrike) and hit MUCH harder than the Tervigon in CC, not to mention as a bonus provide deepstrike homing beacons for your Mawlocs. I run a very similar list to you and originally used outflanking as a new cheaper drop pod that could fit a full squad of anything - I ended up getting rid of it for unreliability, and the fact that even if you get the optimal side its still sometimes not enough and I'm asking myself why I didn't just run those guys up the board. If you are going to outflank something, sometimes it will be amazing - there is no denying that - but in case it isn't, I would at least change that Tervigon to a unit of Warriors + Barbed Strangler. These guys will hit much harder, be almost just as tanky, and will tear through anything that slows down your Mawloc's in CC. But yeah same can said about the Lictors though, which I once again would strongly recommend for this role. Feth scoring lol (that is one advantage the Tervigon does have on the lictors admittedly - however once again an unreliable one. Know how easy it is to tear apart a single Gant spawn every turn in your own deployment zone for most armies? Especially since those anti-infantry guns aren't getting much attention elsewhere).


My other suggestions would be pack Electroshock grubs on both Flyrants, yes you can only shoot 1 set of devourers the turn you use it, but just play a game or two with them if you are wondering why. At this stage I no longer look at Flyrants as 230 pts they are 240 pt units for me, that template makes its 10 points back every game. Also, take 15 devourers on your Gant unit. It will double the amount of shots it puts out, for only 60 points more. And you still have 45 shots left over after the first half of the squad dies. This is our best troop option, I run this combined with a 3 man warrior unit. Don't be tempted to outflank the Gants, you don't want to have your Synapse positioning (likely your Flyrant) have to be altered to go stop some Gants from derping out, just walk them up with the Warriors whhich once again should probably pack a Barbed Strangler. They are only 10 points. Pinning has the possibility to be game changing. Especially for a walking unit that might not be doing much else early on anyway.

tag8833 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
I believe that JY would agree with me that giving up the devourers on the Shrikes is a bad idea...they get it for free and it's a pretty bad@ss gun for an effective 30" range.

If you want scytals...you should have taken Raveners.

Now I personally take Rending Claws on my Shrikes, Flesh Hooks, and I give 2-3 of them Boneswords...no Lash Whip necessary. And don't waste points upgrading their front ranks when they'll just die expensively instead of just dying.

Shrike's main protection come from being in close combat. Devourers jeopardize that by having the potential to kill enough units so that you fail the charge. If you take Devourers you should drop flesh hooks and take AG instead to have a better chance to make the charge.

Also the shooting profile of Flesh hooks is nothing to laugh at. 2 S6 shots. Compare that to 3 S4 shots or 3 S5 shots:
Flesh hooks are better against everything but T3 than Devourers. In fact they are better at T6+ than deathspitters.
Flesh Hooks are better at popping armor than Devourers or Deathspitters.
Flesh Hooks are better at overwatch against everything but T3 than devourers and better at anything T6+ than deathspitters. Also better against most walkers (AV13 still can't touch).

The only place Flesh hooks fall down is range. I think it is a good philosophy that if you are 10+" away from an enemy unit, you should be running instead of shooting. That way you have a better chance of getting HOW and rerolling charge distances. If your are within 6", Flesh hooks are great at shooting. It is the same reason JY prefers 2 TL-devourers on Carnifexes. You lose one turn of shooting, but gain an earlier charge possibility.

And when you do get into assault, doing 25% more attacks is worth it.

Aren't flesh hooks S: user?

It was mostly just a comparison of the blasts themselves, so effectively, yeah I was just comparing the two.

If you're looking for relatively cheap deep strikers, Mawlocs are certainly not bad, though lictors are a bit more efficient at it. 3 Lictors vs 1 Mawloc. Meh. I'm not really a fan of Instinctive guys floating around without a reliable synapse support. Thats kind of a personal call.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flesh hooks got changed. Lost rending, became frag grenades. Still STR 6.

I take one Mawloc and use it much as I used the Doom of Malan'tai in the old book. Talk it up before the game and pretend it's really powerful, then drop it in and watch your opponent pour all their firepower into it instead of your bigger threats.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Ah. Sneaky sneaky.

I am however considering just switching to the electroshocks for just that reason.

But the thought of a random rending (AP2!) template being dropped onto terminators/centurions etc is tempting...

If you're interested, I've run the maths on the 3 Thorax Swarms and how effective they are against various Infantry targets.
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/45826/thorax-swarms-maths

 Iechine wrote:
Tomorrow is my first tourney in 3 months (and only my 3rd in total), it's 1850 with no allies or dataslates, adepticon missions. I want to perform really well. I rebased my army, modified a Tyrant to also have 'twinlinked' devourers/devourer rifle, and now I have to decide whether to take an Exocrine or a Tyrannofex. Here is the list

Flyrant w/devourers, hive commander
Flyrant w/devourers
Tervigon (Outflanking)
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc

30 Gants
3 Warriors
Venomthrope
Tyrannofex OR Exocrine


The first group is obviously in your face turn 1/2 and Tervigon is spawning/holding objectives on the opponents side.

The last 4 units start on board together and will move up together, obviously the gants out front, Warriors in the back for synapse and holding objectives late game, venomthrope saving lives and...either the Fex tanking and acid spraying Eldar/Tau troops mid field, or the Exocrine punching through White Scar bikes.

What do you guys think is best? The survivability of the Fex, or the killing power of the lone exocrine? Jy2, I would love to hear your thoughts if you're out there.

You know I'm a big fan of Tyranofex...

 captnobvious wrote:
It was mostly just a comparison of the blasts themselves, so effectively, yeah I was just comparing the two.

If you're looking for relatively cheap deep strikers, Mawlocs are certainly not bad, though lictors are a bit more efficient at it. 3 Lictors vs 1 Mawloc. Meh. I'm not really a fan of Instinctive guys floating around without a reliable synapse support. Thats kind of a personal call.

3 Lictors don't come in with a S6 large cover-ignoring armor-ignoring blast with re-rollable to Wounds. They also don't have smash attacks or built in AP 2. Both are good units and compliment each other well (for more than just pheromone trail) however I generally take Mawloc's first and Lictors after. They are just much less glass cannon and are the cheapest T6 wounds in the dex, while still seriously putting the hurt on both infantry with the blast, and any tanks they catch in combat, while still being able ok to rough and tumble with infantry in combat given their amazing points to Wounds value. They are still an aggressive unit, also very versatile, and don't throw away any tank for it. In the right list, I can't help but feel that they are the best unit in the codex.


I think two Flyrant's is reliable enough Synapse for, followed up by some Shrikes as well if you still feel nervous.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 captnobvious wrote:
It was mostly just a comparison of the blasts themselves, so effectively, yeah I was just comparing the two.

If you're looking for relatively cheap deep strikers, Mawlocs are certainly not bad, though lictors are a bit more efficient at it. 3 Lictors vs 1 Mawloc. Meh. I'm not really a fan of Instinctive guys floating around without a reliable synapse support. Thats kind of a personal call.

3 Lictors don't come in with a S6 large cover-ignoring armor-ignoring blast with re-rollable to Wounds. They also don't have smash attacks or built in AP 2. Both are good units and compliment each other well (for more than just pheromone trail) however I generally take Mawloc's first and Lictors after. They are just much less glass cannon and are the cheapest T6 wounds in the dex, while still seriously putting the hurt on both infantry with the blast, and any tanks they catch in combat, while still being able ok to rough and tumble with infantry in combat given their amazing points to Wounds value. They are still an aggressive unit, also very versatile, and don't throw away any tank for it. In the right list, I can't help but feel that they are the best unit in the codex.


I think two Flyrant's is reliable enough Synapse for, followed up by some Shrikes as well if you still feel nervous.

I like Mawlocs. The only problem I have with them is the same problem I have with every deep striker since 6th. You can't assault out of a deep strike. The way you're describing and playing them is akin to Distraction Carnifex in a drop pod. A friggin FANTASTIC strategy, just not my personal style.

Like my personal style is more akin to rapid melee with artillery support. I run Biovores all the time, and so my Heavy slots are usually full up. With dataslates, I might fanagle Mawlocs in but I'm still adjusting fire. Currently I'm having to find a substitute for Toxigaunts, as they were formerly my all time hero unit, and with the nerf to scything talons, it has gimped my army.

I like DISTRACTION MAWLOC, but if it weren't for the Living Artillery Node I'd prioritise other units in that HS slot.

I think you guys are misinterpreting me or I'm delivering it wrong its not about DISTRACTION MAWLOC, at least not in the suitable list. Using it in a walking list with Sstandard heavy support and artillery like Carnifexen, Exocrine,Tyrannofex, Biovores, etc and that's probably what role it will perform,.However,-look at lechines list - outflanking troops, 5x FMC and 2x tunneling MC's. The mawloc is silly tanky but what you have to remember is three Mawlocs hit as hard as 2 trygons- for just about the same price. They also come with the epic eentry blast, as well as tricks like hit & run, and burrowing away when near death then coming back with abother suicide blast and 2 t6 wounds that really should be dealt with. They are just as offensive as they are defensive and can kill well over their value consistently each game

"You guys".
Don't lump me in with professional/good/logical players like Raven. I find it offensive.

Honestly the guy's question wasn't even to add/subtract Mawlocs or anything like that. Strategically, he's running a spear (Venomthrope group), a small flank (outflanked Tervigon) and cavalry (Everything else). The question still remains. With the setup stated, what would be a better compliment to his go into his spear? Since he can't answer what foe he will be facing, its a question of Power vs Armor. The VERY slight improvement in defensive sats makes the T-fex have a slight edge in his strategy.


TL: DR. I say T-fex. You'll be sad at a tourney full of SPESS MAHREENS though.

Thanks for the compliment, captnobvious.

I'd also recommend a Tyrannofex to help clear out light infantry and give more durability for your ground forces.

 captnobvious wrote:


Honestly the guy's question wasn't even to add/subtract Mawlocs or anything like that. Strategically, he's running a spear (Venomthrope group), a small flank (outflanked Tervigon) and cavalry (Everything else). The question still remains. With the setup stated, what would be a better compliment to his go into his spear? Since he can't answer what foe he will be facing, its a question of Power vs Armor. The VERY slight improvement in defensive sats makes the T-fex have a slight edge in his strategy.

^ This.

However, the roadblock I come to is the sheer amount of AP1/2 out there. I feel like BOTH the Fex and Exocrine are relying heavily on the Venomthrope and screen to survive to the end game. But then the Fex's guaranteed hits are very attractive. Still havent decided with just a few hours to go. : /

Fex still has an extra wound.

And it's not the stuff with high AP that is really relevant, it's mass firing. When volume of fire hits the fex, you're going to have to roll 2's instead of 3's, and that's when it's relevant.

Personally, I wouldn't Hive Commander and outflank. I'd march everyone as a blob and buy a regen or thorax swarms all around. My .02

 Iechine wrote:

 captnobvious wrote:


Honestly the guy's question wasn't even to add/subtract Mawlocs or anything like that. Strategically, he's running a spear (Venomthrope group), a small flank (outflanked Tervigon) and cavalry (Everything else). The question still remains. With the setup stated, what would be a better compliment to his go into his spear? Since he can't answer what foe he will be facing, its a question of Power vs Armor. The VERY slight improvement in defensive sats makes the T-fex have a slight edge in his strategy.

^ This.

However, the roadblock I come to is the sheer amount of AP1/2 out there. I feel like BOTH the Fex and Exocrine are relying heavily on the Venomthrope and screen to survive to the end game. But then the Fex's guaranteed hits are very attractive. Still havent decided with just a few hours to go. : /

Well here's me thinking you were playing a faster hard hitting aggressive list, with Tervigon outflanking for a troop to keep up with the pack, and Mawloc's deepstriking in with them all, with Venomthrope to give Flyers a cover save turn 1. Termagants to take an outflanking Tervigon and Warriors to walk them up the board to where the fighting is. Did not realise you were doing something completely different..?

Well don't you feel silly then.

Not really, as my advice was still accurate based on the sensible way to play the list, but meh

It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So. Going to go ahead and change subject. With the points drop on them, and being able to still run full options:

Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).

So just trying to work out my list for a 5 game 5 week Tournament, it's 2k with no Forge World, and one FOC but I've been allowed to use the dataslates. So at the moment I have this....

Flyrant LW/BS, 1 x Devourers, Electrogrubs.

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

30 x Termagants 10 Devourers, 20 Fleshbourers
Tervigon

Skyblight Formation
Flyrant 2 x Devourers, Electrogrubs.

3 x 10 Gargoyles
Harpy
Harpy
Crone.


That puts me at 1540 so I've got 460 points to put into my Heavy Support, and can't decide on what mix of Biovores, Carnifexes and Snakes would work best. The other interesting difference with this tournament is you can change your list up to 3 times, at any time.

 captnobvious wrote:
It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.

Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.

 captnobvious wrote:
I
So. Going to go ahead and change subject. With the points drop on them, and being able to still run full options:

Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).

They still have an extra attack due to 2 sets of Close Combat weapons. But I think you pretty much nailed it, Shrikes are now the same price and there is very little reason to run Raveners. Red Terror is pretty plain as well. Shrikes are quite playable, Raveners I think I would consider at 20 pts.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 captnobvious wrote:
It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.

Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.

Not really.....the only thing up for debate was the Fex/Exo slot. Was suggested changed to a Mawloc.
Add a group of warriors (or Lictors)
Change Tervigon to a group of warriors.
And swarms to the flyrants.
Add a heavy weapon to the warrior brood.
Add 15 devourers to the gant squad.

Seems about as re-vampy as it gets?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 captnobvious wrote:
I
So. Going to go ahead and change subject. With the points drop on them, and being able to still run full options:

Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).

They still have an extra attack due to 2 sets of Close Combat weapons. But I think you pretty much nailed it, Shrikes are now the same price and there is very little reason to run Raveners. Red Terror is pretty plain as well. Shrikes are quite playable, Raveners I think I would consider at 20 pts.

I think the idea behind the Red Terror is MUCH more in line with what the Prime SHOULD be instead of it's current incarnation. AKA a fancy veteran sergeant/champion/whatever you want to call him. And you can replace the warriors gun with another set of talons to give them the same number of attacks. So really little to no reason to run raveners at all. And you lose out on HoW with raveners.

 captnobvious wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 captnobvious wrote:
It's probably some combination of "these are the models I have ready" and "this is the way I want to play it. So the complete revamp might not be quite the correct answer.

Wasn't exactly what I would call a complete revamp, the Mawloc slot was still undecided and the only actual change I suggested was Warriors over the Tervigon. But whatever, complete revamp it is.

Not really.....the only thing up for debate was the Fex/Exo slot. Was suggested changed to a Mawloc.
Add a group of warriors (or Lictors)
Change Tervigon to a group of warriors.
And swarms to the flyrants.
Add a heavy weapon to the warrior brood.
Add 15 devourers to the gant squad.

Seems about as re-vampy as it gets?

Cmon son... fleshborers to devourers? 1 heavy weapon on a Warrior? All this stuff comes in the same damn boxes lol... The swarms on the Flyrant don't even need to be modelled, and all the stuff you listed combined suggestion of 100 pts total in upgrades, using all the models he currently uses... So no, it is absolutely not a complete revamp, from neither a gameplay nor a modelling perspective. You must realise how pedantic you look right now. Newsflash - the "Exo/Fex slot" is actually the same slot as a Mawloc! He posted a list looking for advice, he mentioned nothing about model restrictions or an unwillingness to receive feedback (you know, the thing most people are looking for when they post their list in the "discussing tactics thread" for that army), so you've just completely shot down comprehensive responses on the basis of a bunch of assumptions, made by you, for no other real reason than to troll. The advice doesn't even affect you, if he can't afford/doesnt want to buy another Mawloc, or doesn't own the model he can either ignore the advice, and/or say so. Doesn't change the fact that I, in my personal opinion, felt it was the immediate obvious and best choice for an untaken slot still in contention that advice was asked about for. Sure he said he was weighing up between two models, he also didn't specify any restrictions though and in case he felt that was the only option, I gave him, you know, strategical tactical advice. Or is that not allowed anymore and we have to just work on the assumption that everybody only has the models they mention in their posts?


Stop trolling. You don't like Mawloc's. We get it.

And back from the Charity Tournament...

The result? Complete Victory. Tabled all three opponents and each one agreed that they were overwhelmed with threats from turn 2 onwards which made target priority a mess. It also didn't help that one of my Crones decided he was never going to be grounded - ever and he was going to deny the witch like there was no tomorrow. Three DTWs in a row against Ahriman.

Quick summary time, with more in depth details coming later on.

Tournament rules were as follows...

1800 points, no FW, no Formations, 'nids allowed to ally with 'nids for the Tournament.

Psychic Disciplines had to be noted down (so, for Tyranids it was who cares?) but powers generated each game.

Warlord Trait generated at the start of the day and kept for all games - I wound up with Intimidating Presence from the Command traits (enemy within 12" of Warlord having to use the lowest Ld for tests...). The proved to be useful indeed.

Game 1 - SM - Blood Ravens (using Raven Guard Chapter Tactics). Mission was a modified version of the Relic with two diplomats being in the midfield and the goal being to get yours back and off the table to safety, possibly threatening the enemy once you have done that. Also in play were First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord.

Opponent's list was a Chapter Master, 8 Vanguard with assorted kit, 2 10 man Assault Squads, 2 Sniper Scout squads, 2 Predators, Devastators with Flakk Missiles, Terminator Librarian and TH/SS Terminators. Got first turn and deployment - but before that he used his Scout move to move forward and hop into the ruin with the Chapter Master and Vanguard Vets to claim his diplomat.

That was the first mistake - The Dakka fireline pretty much wiped out the Vanguard Veterans in turn 1 scoring me First Blood and the flying blockade of monsters ended up using the Warlord trait and the horror to pin down a big assault squad while the Crones came forward. What followed through this game were Crones circling around, Vector striking Assault squads and Predators out of existence while sheer firepower from devourers killed everything else. Meanwhile the gaunts wandered off the table with their diplomat.

End Result - 6-0 to the Tyranids, Opponent was tabled.
In total I lost 12 points of models (3 termagants!)

Game 2 - Tau. Mission was a modified version of the Scouring with Fast Attack being an extra VP - 6 objectives (worth 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5) with First Blood, Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker.

Opponent's list was Battlesuit Commander, Crisis suits, Darkstrider and some Pathfinders, 3 Fire Warrior Squads, Broadsides, 2 Riptides. Opponent got first turn, I did not seize. Started off by shooting quite rudely as the only thing he managed to move to get sight to - a Crone, stripping 3 wounds off it. I decide to go aggro from the get go - leaving my gaunts and warriors sat on objectives with the Venomthropes and Zoeys. Everything else goes all out toward his lines and opens fire. End up in turn one routing the middle FW squad off their objective and doing damage to two others.

Have a fluke moment with Super Crone who ends up taking over three quarters of the Tau army's firepower to be brought down. Opponent got FB and a Fast Attack kill. This was followed up with turn two - crones start vector striking and drooling on things, assassin tyrant pounces on a FW squad and the dakka flyrants move to threaten the riptides and broadsides. I will note that the Skyfire riptide spent the ENTIRE game Paroxysmed for -3 WS/BS. Assaults ensue, assassin tyrant ends up bogged down in Fire Warriors who REFUSE to break (which made me laugh as it mean he was safe from all the tau firepower) and ends up assaulted by a Riptide which in round 3 of combat he ends up IDing.

Game continues with vector strikes and drool cannons, Tyrant assaults and opponent is tabled.

End result after objectives flipped and Tau tabled - 13 - 2 for the Tyranids. Total losses for this game - 190 points. One warrior, one crone.

Game 3 - Daemons. Mission was standard Kill Points.

Opponent's list was 2 Tzeentch Princes with wings, 2 horror squads, 3 screamer squads, Ahriman, some Marines and a Forgefiend. I get first turn, he doesn't seize.

Flying blockade moves forward in force with Assassin Tyrant flanking - massed devourer fire wipes out a screamer squad netting me First Blood. In response he flies the Princes over a Tyrant and vector strikes - but does nothing thanks to Catalyst and flies the remaining Screamers over the other Tyrant, again doing nothing. Ahriman uses Dominion on a Flyrant - note he did this most of the game. It did nothing Ld 10 is hilarious. Second turn sees Crones vector striking Chaos Marines and his Warlord Prince. the Flyrants moving forward. His Warlord is brought down by - you'll love this - mass termagant fire forcing a grounding test and taking his last wound. Warlord slain. The other prince is then shot at by a Carnifex who grounds him and then assaults him. The screamers are shot and assaulted by Termagants and the other Carnifex. Carnifexes murder their prey in combat. Tyrants chew through Horror squads (SitW is MEAN to them). The Crones fly in a circle and Vector strike Ahriman and his Marines to death.

The cruelest part of fate was when he had just two horrors left in combat with a Tyrant...on the whole board. Rolls on Warp Storm, double 6 - gets 7 more horrors who deep strike, scatter off the board, mishap and die.

End result - 14-0 to the Tyranids, opponent tabled. Total losses - 12 points - 3 Termagants.

All in all the test run of this list was very good. Just overwhelming people with SO MANY FLYING THINGS works.

Very nice! And congratulations on your victory.

Can you repost your list?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Can you repost your list?

Yep.

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers, Electroshock Grubs

15 Termagants - Fleshborers
10 Termagants - Spinefists
10 Termagants - Spinefists
3 Tyranid Warriors - 2 Deathspitters, Barbed Strangler

Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

Crone
Crone

Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers
Carnifex - 2 x Twin Devourers

Allies

Flyrant - Lash Whip and Bonesword, Electroshock Grubs

10 Termagants - Fleshborers

Zoanthrope

Crones?

And crones!

>.> The Crones were always there.

 captnobvious wrote:
Is there really a reason to take Raveners over Shrikes anymore other than maybe Red Terror? They had an extra attack before, now its just a single point of Initiative. So with synapse, shadow, and fearless. Is there much of a reason to take raveners anymore (dataslates aside).

Shrikes > Raveners. However, Raveners aren't bad. +1 Iniative can make a difference, and being Beasts rather than Jump infantry can make a difference.

If I had to pick 1 unit, I would always pick Shrikes. But if I wanted to pick 2 units, I would go 1 Shrike, 1 Ravener rather than 2 Shrikes.


I played a game today against 30k Imperial fists. He had a lot of terminators, and a super killer HQ, a Land Raider. Plus 2 squads of 6 missile launcher devastators.

I ran this list at 2K.



With all of those juicy terminators, I thought my Mawlocs were going to have an absolute field day. But when both Mawlocs came in turn 2. One scattered over the land raiders (missing everything else). It misshaped and died. The other scattered next to the Terminators, and was assaulted and killed. The Trygon Deep struck next to the Devastator squads, and shot at them, but they made all of their saves. On his turn he used the devastators to put 5 wounds on the Trygon Prime. He died to overwatch assaulting a single devastator.

Despite my heavy support going down in flames, my Shrikes came up Huge. They shot their Flesh hooks and killed 3! special terminators. Then they assaulted a squad of 7 more with a Sgnt with a power fist, and his crazy HQ. They Tarpit something like 800 points. I threw in 20 HGaunts, and gave the HGaunts preferred enemy from turn 3 on. It took 4 full turns, but eventually the HGaunts got him to fail 13 2+ saves, and finished the unit off. Meanwhile he was so focused on the Shrikes that he decided to destroy them, and was doing lots of wounds, but WS 5 and 3 wounds a piece meant they weren't going down very fast.

That gave Swarmy a chance to do his thing, and my flyrant a chance to deal with the devastators. My Gargoyles also tarpit a 300 point unit for 3 turns. Turn 5 they killed my last Gargoyles just in time for my flyrant to assault and finish them off for a complete tabling.

My first try at a subterranean swarm, 1850 points:

DeathLeaper

15 Hormagants
15 Hormagants
13 Hormagants

4 Shrikes with extra Scything Talons

Trygon Prime
Mawloc
Mawloc

Subterranean Swarm Formation:

Trygon Prime with Reaper of Obliterax
Trygon
Mawloc
3 Raveners
3 Raveners
3 Raveners

 SHUPPET wrote:


Cmon son... fleshborers to devourers? 1 heavy weapon on a Warrior? All this stuff comes in the same damn boxes lol... The swarms on the Flyrant don't even need to be modelled, and all the stuff you listed combined suggestion of 100 pts total in upgrades, using all the models he currently uses... So no, it is absolutely not a complete revamp, from neither a gameplay nor a modelling perspective. You must realise how pedantic you look right now. Newsflash - the "Exo/Fex slot" is actually the same slot as a Mawloc! He posted a list looking for advice, he mentioned nothing about model restrictions or an unwillingness to receive feedback (you know, the thing most people are looking for when they post their list in the "discussing tactics thread" for that army), so you've just completely shot down comprehensive responses on the basis of a bunch of assumptions, made by you, for no other real reason than to troll. The advice doesn't even affect you, if he can't afford/doesnt want to buy another Mawloc, or doesn't own the model he can either ignore the advice, and/or say so. Doesn't change the fact that I, in my personal opinion, felt it was the immediate obvious and best choice for an untaken slot still in contention that advice was asked about for. Sure he said he was weighing up between two models, he also didn't specify any restrictions though and in case he felt that was the only option, I gave him, you know, strategical tactical advice. Or is that not allowed anymore and we have to just work on the assumption that everybody only has the models they mention in their posts?


Stop trolling. You don't like Mawloc's. We get it.

Actually I kinda like Mawlocs. Dunno where you got the impression that I don't. Personally, I just prefer Biovores.

Changing 25 out of 43 total models seems pretty major, and timeline was stated:

 Iechine wrote:
. Still havent decided with just a few hours to go. : /

I would also say that choosing between Fex and Exo is "specifying restrictions".

This feels a lot like two parents arguing over a kid for no reason, plus kinda borderline flaming....so yea......Guess I'll just t-roll out.....






Back to the Ravener/Shrike thing:

It's good to hear Shrikes are providing a lot of value. And I really think flesh hooks on shrikes are going to start making appearances a lot more often. Even after losing some STR, the drag rule, and rending. A set of shots to snap fire and frag grenades is a lot of bonus for a small amount of points. And with the flesh hook addition, the fact that they're jump infantry instead of beasts improves their use in/on/around cover. That's just efficiency.
Even with 2 squads, I think the utility of Shadow on fast moving models would outweigh a single point of initiative, i mean even just tarpitting NEAR psykers nets you the effect.


Please don't attach nonwargaming images to Dakka.
Reds8n

And yet again, none of what you just said has any relevance to the fact that he just posted a list, and I just gave advice. Stop making a big deal over it. I am posting fully within the forum rules by giving advice in any thread in the tactics discussion category. Also, you know full well the statement you just quoted from him having to only a few hours to go was posted half a day AFTER i gave him advice on the list. On top of this, even if he had said it before I posted my advice, how in the feth would you captnobvious, have any idea, that user lechine does not have a Mawloc model sitting next to him on the table? Since when are we not allowed to make such assumptions when giving advice? Since when are we not allowed to share our opinions and advice?

Suggestions and responses are always welcomed by most, so why don't you just stop whining. It's not even the advice itself you are complaining about, just the fact that I provided an opinion where you feel I shouldn't have? I will post whatever tactical advice I choose to give in the tactics threads, if you don't agree with it by all means, but crying because it was given is just ridiculous. Go bother someone else.

And yes, I too feel like you are arguing over your child. You seem to be telling me on his behalf not to give him tactical advice, and I was starting to wonder if you knew him in real life or something and knew something I didn't. But alas, it seems you are just interjecting with unwanted and unnecessary trolling. At this stage I am just defending myself, I have no idea why you seem to have targeted me. I don't get it? Did lechine message you personally saying he didn't want to discuss Tyranid 40k tactics and asked you to defend him by telling me not to post opinions on Tyranid 40k tactics, in the Tyranid 40k list building tactics thread? Even if he had, I can post opinions in here all day long, its what the thread is for, and anyone who doesn't like reading peoples advice or opinions really doesn't belong in this forum subcategory.

spam deleted.

Reds8n

If you have nothing useful to add and/or just wish to bicker with another user then it's really better you don't post.

So anyway...

Had a blast yesterday, I came in 5th out of 20+ dudes and I won best painted for $50 that I then went on a paint buying spree with.

I 'tried' to get photos of every turn but I easily forgot, so here is the run down with what I have.

It was 1850, no allies/dataslates. I did end up going with a Tfex.

Flyrant w/Devourers, HC
Flyrant w/Devourers
Tervigon
30 Gaunts
Venomthrope
Warrior Brood
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannofex


Game 1 vs Eldar


Game 2 vs Tau


Game 3 vs Chaos Marines (!)




So I think I would have changed my list slightly, dropping the Tfex and Mawloc for two Carnifex's with devourers with a template going to the Tervigon. Very rarely did the Fex get to use his 2+ save, and while melting
Kroot and Eldar so easily feels good, 24 more TL S6 shots probably feels great too. But I do now that there is not another army I would rather use than the Tyranids, even without
their dataslates.

I have gotten some comments about the Tervigon and outflanking her, but honestly she did what I wanted her to, which is cement objectives. She died via newbie mistakes like not bubble wrapping her properly and she
secured the primary objectives for me alone in Game 3.

Thanks for moderation.




Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.


Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.

 Iechine wrote:
So anyway...

Had a blast yesterday, I came in 5th out of 20+ dudes and I won best painted for $50 that I then went on a paint buying spree with.

I 'tried' to get photos of every turn but I easily forgot, so here is the run down with what I have.

It was 1850, no allies/dataslates. I did end up going with a Tfex.

Flyrant w/Devourers, HC
Flyrant w/Devourers
Tervigon
30 Gaunts
Venomthrope
Warrior Brood
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannofex


Game 1 vs Eldar

Spoiler:

My first matchup was vs Eldar and a 'non-douchey' list, owned by Ray who was a really nice guy that I'll hopefully be playing with a lot in the future. This
was a fun game.

Spiritseer
Eldrad
Wraithguard
Wraithknight
3x Wave serpents (Scatter laser x2, Brightlance)
Dire Avengers
Fire Dragons (!)
Warp Spiders
Guardians w/heavy weapon (I think it was a starcannon, dont recall)

I went first and he was unable to seize. My psychic powers stayed the same all day, mostly Pyschic scream, the horror, and Onslaught.
Only rolled catalyst once all day (of course).



Our setup. His forces in the back right are wave serpent bound.


My turn one hit very hard. I onslaughted the middle crone so she swooped and ran right up to 4+ save guardians. Left crone took down
some Warp Spiders. Eldrad's Wraith unit lost a lot of bodies to Devourer fire. The guardians would break and run, giving my FB.


His response brings down a Warlord Tyrant on the far right with Ranger fire, but not before SitW interfered with his casting phase.
A crone is brought down, and two wounds are dealt to the other but she stays in the air.


My newbie mistake here was vector striking the Wraithknight with both Crones, despite having told myself to ignore it for the duration of the
game. I do inflict wounds. The Tyrant flies hard legal (Wouldnt stand properly on the hill so thats why is facing is 'illegal' in the pic). Middle
arrow moves up, Tervigon comes on and spawns, and 1 Mawloc doesnt clear out Eldrad's unit so she mishaps to the far back. I make the
mistake of not bubble wrapping the Tervigon properly with her spawn.


He counters, inflicting many wounds on the Tervigon (which the Knight wound finish of in CC) and unloads the Dragons and WS to take down the Tyrant,
but he survives.


My new Gant squad would make all of their leadership checks when out of synapse. Flyrant goes off the table, and his spot is replaced with
two angry Crones. T-fex moves up, Warriors continue to move towards the left objective, and my massive gant blob controls the middle and
sets their sight's on Eldrad. The flame templates and torrents would melt away the Fire Dragons, and reduce the Warp Spiders to two.


WS's go to pick a fight with my gants. The Wraithknight fires on the T-fex, and then makes an 8" charge to fist fight. The Fex would not survive
the slap fight. He consolidates towards the bottom left objective. Not pictured so well is the 30 gant squad swarming towards Eldrad.


Tyrant is back on. I make a mistake here and fire on a WS, when I should have finished off Eldrad with his Wraithguard and Seer's gone.
Mawloc comes in off target but close enough to where I need her. Other Mawloc goes after the Rangers to clear them off their objective.
More vector strikes and flame templates finish off another Dire Avenger group.


Warrior brood disappears beneath Knight strikes. Eldrad would finally die to the massive swarm.


Crone flies to flame some Rangers, Mawloc moves to assault them and get them off the objective. Gants own the left objective, and the
middle group consolidated and ran back to the middle objective. Tyrant heads up to pop the gants back into synapse. I stretch the brood
out the middle to be in synapse and hold the middle.

With the knight being unable to contest both objectives, we call it. I think I had 11 kill points to his 5, and Im ahead on objectives. I have
FB, Warlord and Linebreaker, maxing out my points in the first round.[spoiler]

Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...

I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!

pinecone77 wrote:

I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!

That's the reason I have an Assassin Flyrant at 1800 points rather than something else as the allied HQ - his goal is to leap on big things like Riptides or Wraithknights and attempt to ID them to death. He really shines if I get Paroxysm though - because then his target tends to get Paroxysm-stacked and if I can reduce it to WS 3 or less? Gives him a lot more survivability!

SHUPPET wrote:Thanks for moderation.




Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.


Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.


Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.

The Fex served as a roadblock all day and thats about it, the Exocrine would have gotten more action probably. But the Tervigon definitely served her purpose, IMO.

pinecone77 wrote:
Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...

I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!

I ran everything vanilla, so no upgrades or alterations to speak of. In non tourney play I do use a Reapers and LW/BS warriors often, but not in this event.

Been a long long while since we've been "mod-ed"



Just played the forest lictor brood...d@mn can they take a hit and deal some pain...so much rending...

Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...

SBG wrote:
Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...

I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.

 Iechine wrote:

SHUPPET wrote:Thanks for moderation.




Anyway, Nice work spanking the Eldar lechine and those bugs are nicely painted. Did not look like the Tyrannofex did much for you at all that game.


Adding to that, I really enjoyed the battle report, quick, not too many words, good pics and nicely painted models. Will keep my eye out for more.


Strategical notes, you had two clear underperformers - the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Basically exactly as I predicted in my post before you played, both were at best distractions, although really the T-Fex was in between the WK and where he wanted to be anyway (and didn't even slow him down) and the Tervigon was destined to do nothing more than feed the Eldar an extra kill point every turn, so I wouldn't even glorify them as distraction units. Especially at 400 pts for the two and how little they achieved. Up to you if you want to act on that but I would say both unit are severely holding your list back.

The Fex served as a roadblock all day and thats about it, the Exocrine would have gotten more action probably. But the Tervigon definitely served her purpose, IMO.

pinecone77 wrote:
Nice! I agree that WraithKnights and Riptides are big problems for us Bugs Did you meet any Tau? Or should I just wait... I'm glad you went with the Tyranofex how did you kit her out? I always want to add a Thorax Hive, and I usually find the points for Adrenals as well...

I can't fault you for failing to ignore the WK, its hard to do! And with a little luck, you might have put it away The closest thing I have as an "answer" is Bone sword(s) ie: Get lucky If Rangers are causing problems, you should be able to clean them out, you have a lot of templates, and two Mawlocs (more templates!) So it was likely "threat overload" that kept you from getting them sooner....congrats on the fine victory!

I ran everything vanilla, so no upgrades or alterations to speak of. In non tourney play I do use a Reapers and LW/BS warriors often, but not in this event.

Cool, but its only 10 points to toss in a Hive, that gives you a big overwatch if you get charged, and lets you kill Troops twice as fast

So I'd reccomend you give it a try sometime...

 tetrisphreak wrote:

SBG wrote:
Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...

I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.

Lictors need to be characters....challenging out and killing sgts would be fluffy and useful.

And yet the unit would still be terrible...

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And yet the unit would still be terrible...

I wouldn't say Lictors are Terrible. I would say that they are mainly overcosted, and competing with Venoms and Zoeys for FOC.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

SBG wrote:
Worth picking up the DLC? I bought the other 2, but was hesitant on #1. The 5-lictor brood seems like it could be amazing, though...

I'm a huge fan. The assassin brood is good too - it can give up first blood easily but as a bonus it's easy to get at least a couple lictors into combat.

Lictors need to be characters....challenging out and killing sgts would be fluffy and useful.

I agree especially since they are 1 man units, and Deathleapers hand picked escort (lol @ deathleaper being a gentlemenly veteran of skirmish warfare with a curled moustache and a british accent) , or whatever, the Hive Mind's handpicked escort for the Deathleaper.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And yet the unit would still be terrible...

Nah.... Assassins brood is amazing, with obvious negatives. It's balanced.

 ductvader wrote:
Been a long long while since we've been "mod-ed"



Just played the forest lictor brood...d@mn can they take a hit and deal some pain...so much rending...

Yeah that guy was just painful though. +1 rep to Mods. He had de-evolved to "tl;dr" + jpg trolling by the end there.


From someone who has never bothered with the Terrain rules, what are the key features to playing a forest brood? What do I need to bring with me, and how do I go about it? Also, my thoughts are that I would have to place the forest just before their deployment zone starts, otherwise they could deploy all around it blocking the 6" margin needed to infiltrate? Any more info / explanation for me here?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And yet the unit would still be terrible...

I wouldn't say Lictors are Terrible. I would say that they are mainly overcosted, and competing with Venoms and Zoeys for FOC.

I think (might be wrong) that he is saying the Deathleaper Assassins brood itself is terrible, not Lictors. Deathleaper Assassins Brood is different because it puts 5 kill points on the table for 250 points, 50 points a Lictor. 6 if you include the Deathleaper although he isn't near as much of a liability. This can be a notable handicap. If running it, you pretty much have to play to table your opponent. I still think it's less likely to feed killpoints than running a Tervigon however

No, I'm definitely saying Lictors are terrible. In my opinion Lictors need at least 2 or 3 of the following in order to be worth fielding at a competitive level:
- Increased durability
- Lower points cost
- Ability to make non-declinable challenges
- Ability to assault from reserves
- Pheromone trail working the turn they arrive from reserves
- Better close combat stats

Fair enough, they are very glass cannon and probably need to be at about 40. I don't think making them Warrior price is a great idea, but they might still need a slight reduction, a lot the flaws you mentioned are definitely valid, although I wouldn't call them unplayable. They do hit like a ton of bricks, I think playing them cautiously is important, deepstriking directly next to unit so you can get flesh hook shots is probably not a great idea in a lot of situations. They are definitely one of the easiest ways to waste points if you don't make the right calls. Plus, a lot of the time Warriors will be better value for points.

Assuming Lictors are as they, if you personally HAD to field them, how do you feel about the Assassins Brood formation?

I feel that it's a 250 point tax to get Deathleaper out of the HQ slot, diminishing the threat potential and target saturation of your army, and handing your opponent Purge the Alien on a silver platter.

What points value do you think Lictors would be balanced at, assuming no other changes?

I'd say Kill Team if Genestealers didn't exist.. Maybe Apocalypse just because at that points level you can afford to throw away some points on a relatively cheap annoying unit.

Actually, in an Apocalypse sized game I can really see the use of the Assassin Brood to help guide in lots of deepstriking FMCs.

I don't believe they are permitted for kill team based on the no multi-wounds allowed rule, I think thats a standard rule now anyway?. Regardles, we have very little for kill team. :(

But my question was actually, how many points does each individual lictor need to be to be worth the purchase? How overcosted do you think they are?

If I remember correctly only models with over 3 wounds are disallowed in the new Kill Team rules.

Ah, ok. I'd say 30 points would make them a decent choice and worth considering over other Elites.

For playing lictors well...and I would argue the whole tyranid codex...terrain placement is vital.

Being picky about your terrain placement and going one at a time is huge.

With tyranids...and most armies...you're trying to get some ruins on your side while throwing forests in their backyard.

I care much more about terrain placement with my bugs than I ever do with my Grey Knights or Eldar.

I really wish my club had more line of sight blocking terrain available.

So anything you do specifically when using forest lictors? Where do you put the forest?

So while tyranids do not have access to transports, with the rules we currently have we do have access to some nifty fortification tricks:

Page 121 of the BRB states "...Friendly units that have the infiltrate or scouts special rule can (re)deploy within the building, regardless of the proximity to enemy units." This is regarding fortifications. It goes on to state that enemy units cannot infiltrate within your fortifications before the start of the game, which is nice to prevent someone with kroot or scouts stealing your tactic.

Jump to Stronghold Assault, with updated rules for buildings and fortifications, and see the "Repel the Attackers" special rule. (no rules quote here as my book is elsewhere, but it is the rule that allows models to assault after disembarking from buildings.)

So with the above 2 referenced topics, I think genestealers (and lictors if you wish) have a niche use. Take a bastion or imperial bunker (75 pts for 20 model capacity, 55 pts for 10....bastion is probably the better buy as it also comes with heavy bolters and blocks more LOS than the bunker). Place it right on the center line, fully within your table half (as per the rules) and infiltrate your genestealers or lictors into it. Now the enemy has to crack an AV14 building in 1 turn, or the unit will be assaulting anything that approaches near the center table.

75 pts for a razorback..pah! tyranids might have just found their new land raider.

This is a common tactic with the redoubt.

Late to the party, as usual. Thanks Duct.

I had never heard nor thought of it.... nor have I seen it mentioned in this thread so I don't think its all that common.... thanks heaps for the heads up Tetris! Might give this a go...

 SHUPPET wrote:
I had never heard nor thought of it.... nor have I seen it mentioned in this thread so I don't think its all that common.... thanks heaps for the heads up Tetris! Might give this a go...

Definitely consider it with the redoubt as it gives your list some skyfire and even makes it so 2 flyrants is not necessary.

Sitting and thinking about this tactic I would advise to be wary of opponents who tote meltaguns, lances, etc on a regular basis. In those cases it might be better to place the fortification in a more defensive position.

Or alternatively purchase barricades for 10 pts per 6" section, and put them right in front of your building to give it a 4+ cover save. Sure, you'll inhibit LOS from the fire points on the building (if it's a Firestorm Redoubt) but Genestealers don't shoot anyway so it's no loss.

Exact wording on infiltrates page states two rules involving deploying 12" away no LOS, and 18" away with LOS, and that "a unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn". Does this mean deploying into the bastion which is neither of the mentioned rules, does allow first turn assault?

No they cannot assault as they're still using the "infiltrate" rules.

Unless you go second...then you can assault.

Going second makes no difference, p 9 says if rules state turn it means player turn not game turn

So you have to leave the genestealers inside for a turn anyway? I don't think that is worth the 75 pts if so... But being that you were mistaken about half of the rulings you stated I think I'll wait for another opinion to verify the other half first

 SHUPPET wrote:
Going second makes no difference, p 9 says if rules state turn it means player turn not game turn

So you have to leave the genestealers inside for a turn anyway? I don't think that is worth the 75 pts if so... But being that you were mistaken about half of the rulings you stated I think I'll wait for another opinion to verify the other half first

The rule states no unit that used Infiltrate or Scout may assault on the first turn. Stop. In the first section of the rulebook, it states that the term "turn" means player turn, unless specifically referenced as "Game turn". Stop.

Therefore, If you go first you may not assault if you infiltrate - however on turn 1 if you go Second you can infiltrate then assault. In both scenarios, the defending player has 1 shooting phase to move out of the way/defend himself from your units.

Edit to add: The section on deploying within Fortifications (page 121) overrides the 12"/18" distance rule for normal infiltrators.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Going second makes no difference, p 9 says if rules state turn it means player turn not game turn

So you have to leave the genestealers inside for a turn anyway? I don't think that is worth the 75 pts if so... But being that you were mistaken about half of the rulings you stated I think I'll wait for another opinion to verify the other half first

The rule states no unit that used Infiltrate or Scout may assault on the first turn. Stop. In the first section of the rulebook, it states that the term "turn" means player turn, unless specifically referenced as "Game turn". Stop.

Therefore, If you go first you may not assault if you infiltrate - however on turn 1 if you go Second you can infiltrate then assault. In both scenarios, the defending player has 1 shooting phase to move out of the way/defend himself from your units.

Edit to add: The section on deploying within Fortifications (page 121) overrides the 12"/18" distance rule for normal infiltrators.

Thanks for the concise overview tetris!

Dude...that is still your player turn 1, even if you went second. You still cannot assault either way.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Dude...that is still your player turn 1, even if you went second. You still cannot assault either way.

Wrong. It's player turn 2, game turn 1.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: The rulebook states " unit that m akes a Scout redeploym ent
A
cannot charge in the first turn." Does this m ean that if your
opponent has the first turn and you go second, your Scouting
unit can charge? (p41)
A: Yes.

Scout and Infiltrate have identical prohibitions.

It's the first player turn. Not during your first player turn.

Gotcha, my misunderstanding of player turns. Sorry for spamming a rules debate.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
If I remember correctly only models with over 3 wounds are disallowed in the new Kill Team rules.

Ah, ok. I'd say 30 points would make them a decent choice and worth considering over other Elites.

30-35 points would definitely make Lictors much more attractive. Of course 20 points would make Warriors more attractive, 8 points would make Genesteelers more attractive. 220 would make Swarmlord more attractive.

Maybe 7th edition's changes to assault will make Lictors more appealing.

So does anyone think this a worthy 75 pt upgrade for stealers? If you leave them inside turn 1 then by turn 2 they will be no closer than if you had just infiltrated them normally... You have 5 more gene stealers as well with the points saved... However 20 gene stealers with an AV14 wall is obviously more survivable than 25 running up the field, in most cases... Turn 1 assault vs most no-melta-or-lance armies is nice too, although it most likely just tells your opponent to stay back a bit, which is fine for them considering our lack of decent ranged weaponry... Thoughts?

Aside from its application as a genestealer hive, the bastion will provide critical LOS blocking which in many cases will aid your army as a whole.

Nobody loves bastions more than bugs.

Well, maybe Oblits.

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
If I remember correctly only models with over 3 wounds are disallowed in the new Kill Team rules.

Ah, ok. I'd say 30 points would make them a decent choice and worth considering over other Elites.

30-35 points would definitely make Lictors much more attractive. Of course 20 points would make Warriors more attractive, 8 points would make Genesteelers more attractive. 220 would make Swarmlord more attractive.

Honestly, I'd probably take Lictors if they had some of the formation rules by default, without having to take 300-400pts worth of them first. Paranoia and Ill Discipline (-1 to Ld for enemies within 12") is a potentially fantastic combo alongside some of our Pinning / psychic options, and getting Shrouded instead of Stealth in any area terrain (rather than just forests) would be pretty good too.

Most of all though, I think they need to be characters with some special challenge-related bonuses (perhaps a Tyranid version of Disarm). It would be awesome if they could be used to pick off sergeants/psykers in units, then Hit & Run out of there.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
No, I'm definitely saying Lictors are terrible. In my opinion Lictors need at least 2 or 3 of the following in order to be worth fielding at a competitive level:
- Increased durability
- Lower points cost
- Ability to make non-declinable challenges
- Ability to assault from reserves
- Pheromone trail working the turn they arrive from reserves
- Better close combat stats

I gotta agree in principle... Maybe just give Lictors Shrouded as part of Camo-skin, or buff up to "only snap shots" like Deathleaper
Adding in a "Bio-assassin" rule that lets them make challenges (but not receive them) makes good sense from the fluff...I really agree on the trail working at all times is a workable, and needed change.

GW seems totally oposed to assault from...well Anything So thats likely out....and the stats? I think their fine

a 4+ would be nice...they definitely look like a 4+...instead of straight dying to bolterfire.

Sure, there's stealth and terrain...but that's not always a guaruntee, and then you have to charge through cover as well.

So how are people going about transporting their Skyblight Formations?

By not using them

My only FMC is a Flyrant, and I magnetised his wings quite easily, using a couple of pins to stop them spinning around. It's much easier to transport, and I can see the same working for the Harpy/Crone kit.

I use a large plastic bin. It looks dangerous but very rarely do I suffer damages. Usually the only threat to the Hive Fleet is my 22 month old daughter.

 xttz wrote:
By not using them

My only FMC is a Flyrant, and I magnetised his wings quite easily, using a couple of pins to stop them spinning around. It's much easier to transport, and I can see the same working for the Harpy/Crone kit.

I've also Pinned and magnetized my Flyrant wings. Both of my flyrants are older metal models that I've converted by adding deamon wings to their backs.

I had planned to magnetize the Crone's wings as well, but I'm struggling a bit with how to do it, and maintain their structural integrity. There are 2 connection points, and I need 2 Pins to give it structure, and am then not sure where to place my magnets.

I magnetized the Cone and harpy head, and the Spike / Spore mine deployer just fine, but when I magnetized one of my Harpy weapons mounts with 2x2 mm at the connection point as well as along the torso, I was disappointed with the stability of them. They stay put, but tilting or shaking the crone can dislodge them. I'm going to go back and swap in larger magnets, but 2mm was the maximum diameter that didn't require reshaping of the connection points. I was hoping to use the squared edges to provide extra stability against tilt, but that apparently isn't going to work out. I use N50 magnets, and I know a lot of people use weaker N35 or N45 magnets.

ETA:
It is my hope to magnetize my Crones sufficiently that I can easily fit at least 3 on a layer of foam. That means the Wings must be magnetized.

Eldercaveman wrote:
So how are people going about transporting their Skyblight Formations?

In an old CSM Renegade Strike Force box with lots of bubble wrap.

So yesterday I tried out a 3-Tyrant list, without using a Flyrant. Again I swapped the 3 Tyrant Guard from the formation to protect my warlord in the primary detachment. I also tried a Tervigon for the first time in 6E, outflanking it to threaten my opponent's backfield.



My opponent was running vanilla marines with mostly armour - 2 Predators, Las/plas Razorback, LRR with assault termies, Stormraven plus some tac marines / scouts and a bunch of sternguard in a drop pod. We rolled the mission with one objective each, and he went first. Despite psychic 7 rolls, I didn't manage to get Catalyst, instead picking up a mixed bag of Onslaught, Paroxsym, and Warp Blast on the HVC Tyrant.

I used the gaunts to bubble-wrap things as much as possible from the drop pod with combi-meltas (a few weeks ago I lost an Exocrine to this before it fired a shot). His only option was to land next to my Warlord, blowing away 2 Guards and wounding the Tyrant. The Land Raider with Termies + Captain rather bravely advanced toward two Tyrants, while the Predators hung around the back corner of the field sniping at anything they could. There wasn't enough cover to approach them safely, but I was able to reach a building in the middle of the board that blocked line of sight, preventing them shooting anything more worthwhile than gaunts.
The veteran squad was neutralised with a combo of The Horror and an Exocrine blast, preventing further plasma shenanigans. HVC and Warp Blast failed to scratch the LRR, and it managed to unload terminators in an attempt to kill the HVC Tyrant. I challenged the Captain to try and last a bit longer, which paid off. I piled in Termagants and a second HT, wiping out the Terminators with ease. Thanks to a combination of poor to hit rolls and lucky Iron Halo saves, the Captain lasted 3 turns in combat, with the HT surviving on 1 wound. It's worth nothing that Paroxsym was really valuable here - making TH/SS Terminators hit my WS8 Hive Tyrant on 5+ instead of 4+.

The Tervigon outflanked next to a combat squad, killing three tac marines including the missile launcher with Shreddershards. The following turn it spawned enough gaunts to finish off the rest, while making a beeline for his objective. Meanwhile, the Biovores obliterated absolutely anything that could walk, thanks to the Living Artillery re-roll. By turn 3/4 he had nothing left to hold objectives with, thanks to them. I'll definitely be taking this formation again.

We called the game during his 5th turn (I didn't play my 5th), as he only had a Predator and Stormraven on the board, and no troops. Two of my Tyrants survived (no guards did), and the Tervigon plus 2 spawned broods were in solid control of his objective. Mine was held by the Warriors, and I also had all three secondary objectives.

While my Hive Tyrants did perform fairly well, I don't think I'll be taking 3 of them again. The guards needed to make them durable mean they're pushing 300pts, which is expensive. I suffered mostly from lack of anti-armour, and some Fexes or even Hive Guard would have made it a massacre. Despite being mostly decent, the psychic powers I rolled didn't help much thanks to the lack of troops in range. I'm considering experimenting with 6+ Fexes next time instead.

Interesting. I don't think walking Tyrants are all that bad. I mean they are what 45 points more than a Dakkafex, for Synapse and WS8 / I5 ? Who can also take Tyrant Guards and Thorax Swarms and whatever else?

I think they are overlooked and spending 70 points on wings in a walking list just to throw your Tyrants forward and likely lose them.... I personally find Tyrants to be quite flimsy, especially for 240 pts, and while wings never hurt they are an expensive upgrade that I think is often not necessary.

Sounds like Tervigon did well, although against marines I expect them too.

Here's a list i'm thinking of trying at 1250 points this coming monday:

HQ - Hive tyrant - wings, 2x devourers, ES Grubs - 240
HQ - Tervigon - C. Spines, Regen - 230
TP - 10x Termagants -40
TP - 10x Termagants -40
TP - 3x Warriors - 2x ScyTals/D.Spitters, 1x ScyTals/B. Strangler - 110
TP - 15x Genestealers - 210
EL - 2x Lictors - 100
EL - 3x Hive Guard - 165
FORT - Bastion -Ammo Store, Escape Hatch - 115

TOTAL - 1250 Points. Model Ct - 45

The basic idea is to plant the Bastion Midfield, with the main door facing the enemy DZ. The Escape hatch will be placed 12" towards my DZ. On the first turn they are able to assault (Bottom of 1 or Top of 2 depending on who goes first), the genestealers will disembark from the bastion, and the hive guard will use the escape hatch to get in after it's empty. The ammo Store will let them re-roll 1's when shooting their impaler cannons, which will be able to protect about a 54" bubble from the center (or flank depending on terrain) of the table. The flyrant will use the bastion for cover before moving up and aiding the genestealers in whatever they need to assault, whether it be softening up a unit with shooting, buffing/debuffing with pyschic powers, etc. The tervigon's job is to guard the mid field, and spawn termagants to claim/contest objectives - the warriors and the 2 10-man termagants will hold the backfield. The lictors can go where necessary, and thanks to flying synapse/dominion, go to ground when shot at then become fearless to get up and move/assault their target (usually going to be backfield infantry or tanks & such).

@1250 points i don't think I will need more than 1 flyrant for AA support, and the hive guard with re-roll 1's to hit seem like they could be worth their investment.

Any suggestions/opinions on the list?

SHUPPET wrote:Interesting. I don't think walking Tyrants are all that bad. I mean they are what 45 points more than a Dakkafex, for Synapse and WS8 / I5 ? Who can also take Tyrant Guards and Thorax Swarms and whatever else?

I think they are overlooked and spending 70 points on wings in a walking list just to throw your Tyrants forward and likely lose them.... I personally find Tyrants to be quite flimsy, especially for 240 pts, and while wings never hurt they are an expensive upgrade that I think is often not necessary.

Sounds like Tervigon did well, although against marines I expect them too.

The Tervigon didn't do a whole lot of damage, but tactically it was decent, grabbing an objective plus Linebreaker. I can't help but think how hilarious it would have been if it had outflanked next to the two Predators instead, though The only way for them to get safe would require moving toward a Hive Tyrant.

Walkrants would be awesome if they had a way to reliably get Catalyst or Biomancy, or a 2+ save. My MC list for this game ended up like this:
HT1: 1 wound left
HT2: 1 wound left
HT3: dead
Exocrine: dead
Tervigon: 4 wounds left

They work well enough in casual games, but against a reasonably competitive list, they'd all be dead.

tetrisphreak wrote:Here's a list i'm thinking of trying at 1250 points this coming monday:

Any suggestions/opinions on the list?

How come you're not taking the Tervigon as Troops? If you combined the Termagant broods it won't be too hard to find 40pts to unlock that, and it's arguably a better backfield scoring unit than 2x10 Terms (which themselves will be an issue if you roll the killpoint mission).

Do you really need 2x2 Venoms? I can usually make a list work with 1 or 2 x 1


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Tetris...ammo store is a neat idea...I just take Swarmy half of the time for preferred enemy for the same effect.

xttz wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Here's a list i'm thinking of trying at 1250 points this coming monday:

Any suggestions/opinions on the list?

How come you're not taking the Tervigon as Troops? If you combined the Termagant broods it won't be too hard to find 40pts to unlock that, and it's arguably a better backfield scoring unit than 2x10 Terms (which themselves will be an issue if you roll the killpoint mission).

I hadn't thought of that when i was just brainstorming the list on notebook paper. Now that you mention it, i guess i could drop 1 lictor, blob the termagants into a 30x brood and troop the tervigon, and add a thorax flamer (probably shreddershards). That really would change the battlefield role for the lictor, but I think i'd still keep it in for distraction/linebreaker, and a single lictor is still pretty good at shredding tanks with rear AV10. Thanks for the input!

ductvader wrote:
@Tetris...ammo store is a neat idea...I just take Swarmy half of the time for preferred enemy for the same effect.

It's really the only thing I could think of to really make hive guard worth bringing in a serious format. Swarmlord is good to have if you're taking him anyway, but 285 just to buff the shooting of 3 hive guard is too much. The ammo store is a 15 point upgrade to the bastion, which i'm really only taking as a delivery system for the genestealers and terrain for my flyrant to duck behind. The escape hatch/ammo store idea was an afterthought but i think it combos well with the hive guard, and i'm excited to give it a try.

Thanks for the input !

Well that's not all Swarmy does...he's also slinging around 3 powers a turn, maintains synapse solidarity and presents a decent sized do-not-enter bubble.

Use just using an anecdote for one of his uses...I do the same with the Exocrine as well, especially since it's widely accepted that it can even TL the blast.

Oh, I know. I love swarmlord - I just didn't want to use him in this particular list because I'm mainly trying bastion+stealers.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Oh, I know. I love swarmlord - I just didn't want to use him in this particular list because I'm mainly trying bastion+stealers.

I do enjoy the bastion swap.

But can't only 2 Hive Guard shoot out of the Bastion?

Its good to see some people have success with swarmy... personally I hate his guts now... he dies.. dies like a fruit fly every time he touches the table. I don't like walkrants either but they are cheaper at least.

 Roci wrote:
Its good to see some people have success with swarmy... personally I hate his guts now... he dies.. dies like a fruit fly every time he touches the table. I don't like walkrants either but they are cheaper at least.

I completely retired him outside of Homebrew/Houserule games.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Oh, I know. I love swarmlord - I just didn't want to use him in this particular list because I'm mainly trying bastion+stealers.

I do enjoy the bastion swap.

But can't only 2 Hive Guard shoot out of the Bastion?

2 models per fire point - the bastion has 8 fire points all around, so the hive guard will all be able to shoot.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Oh, I know. I love swarmlord - I just didn't want to use him in this particular list because I'm mainly trying bastion+stealers.

I do enjoy the bastion swap.

But can't only 2 Hive Guard shoot out of the Bastion?

2 models per fire point - the bastion has 8 fire points all around, so the hive guard will all be able to shoot.

That's actually very nice for Hive Guard. No matter where the fire points are, you don't need LOS to shot.

Addaran wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
2 models per fire point - the bastion has 8 fire points all around, so the hive guard will all be able to shoot.

That's actually very nice for Hive Guard. No matter where the fire points are, you don't need LOS to shot.

Now if only we had a way to put more than 3 Hive Guard in a Bastion.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

Addaran wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
2 models per fire point - the bastion has 8 fire points all around, so the hive guard will all be able to shoot.

That's actually very nice for Hive Guard. No matter where the fire points are, you don't need LOS to shot.

Now if only we had a way to put more than 3 Hive Guard in a Bastion.

If you want to be really obnoxious, take the following:

Tyranid Prime

Venomthrope brood

1-2 broods of Hive Guard

Bastion with Escape Hatch + Void Shield building upgrades, Ammo Dump battlefield debris.

Place the ammo dump on top of the bastion. Get one unit of Hive Guard onto the battlements, and an optional one hidden behind it. The Prime joins the Venom(s) inside the Bastion. You end up with:

Anything within 6" of the bastion is Shrouded
Anything within 12" of the bastion is in Synapse
The Prime fires an emplaced Heavy Bolter with BS4, Venomthrope(s) fire theirs with BS3.
The Hive Guard on top get re-rolls of 1, protected by a 2+ cover save and a void shield.
The optional 2nd Hive Guard brood behind the bastion are probably out of line of sight, but can fire as normal.

You don't get the fire point shenanigans like before, but you do get a nice Synapse/Shrouded aura, better Heavy Bolter firepower, and Hive Guard protected by 2+ cover and an AV12 barrier. It's a 48" radius no-go bubble in the middle of the board that only gets stronger the more units are nearby.

I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

I wish you could have multiple per slot like heralds and the damn thing got a price cut. And could get wings to keep up with shrikes.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Agreed, yet my Primes always seem to be more reliable in damage output than other HQs, flyrants included.

...I also don't run them outside of the formation too often.

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Agreed, yet my Primes always seem to be more reliable in damage output than other HQs, flyrants included.

...I also don't run them outside of the formation too often.

If you're running warriors, taking the 3 broods + the Prime and getting 10 norn crowns for free isn't a bad deal at all.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Agreed, yet my Primes always seem to be more reliable in damage output than other HQs, flyrants included.

...I also don't run them outside of the formation too often.

If you're running warriors, taking the 3 broods + the Prime and getting 10 norn crowns for free isn't a bad deal at all.

The thing is that Norn Crowns are heinously overpriced themselves.

tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Agreed, yet my Primes always seem to be more reliable in damage output than other HQs, flyrants included.

...I also don't run them outside of the formation too often.

If you're running warriors, taking the 3 broods + the Prime and getting 10 norn crowns for free isn't a bad deal at all.

I follow the "formation takes up your allies slot" house-rule and am already using the Living Artillery Node, but yes, that is a good way to get a Prime outside of the FOC and strengthen your Synaptic web.

Kain wrote:The thing is that Norn Crowns are heinously overpriced themselves.

He's referring to the extra 6 inches the Synaptic Swarm formation gives you.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Agreed, yet my Primes always seem to be more reliable in damage output than other HQs, flyrants included.

...I also don't run them outside of the formation too often.

If you're running warriors, taking the 3 broods + the Prime and getting 10 norn crowns for free isn't a bad deal at all.

I follow the "formation takes up your allies slot" house-rule and am already using the Living Artillery Node, but yes, that is a good way to get a Prime outside of the FOC and strengthen your Synaptic web.

Kain wrote:The thing is that Norn Crowns are heinously overpriced themselves.

He's referring to the extra 6 inches the Synaptic Swarm formation gives you.

I know, I'm saying it shouldn't be a great bargain because the Norn Crown costs far more than it should.

Oh yes the actual wargear is overpriced but getting them for free on warriors makes up for it.


In my games lately the warriors haven't been bad, either. There really is a lack of s8+ weapons now that the game has gone to hull points glancing out vehicles with S7. The occasional battle cannon or basilisk definitely causes them some concern but overall it's S6 and S7 spam where i play. Also at base level, they're a small, easily hidden fearless scoring unit. Not terrible at shooting, and actually pretty decent in melee.

I might just for fun run a whole warrior-sized list in the near future and see how it performs. Hive guard included, of course, and zoanthropes just for the anti-tank.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Oh yes the actual wargear is overpriced but getting them for free on warriors makes up for it.


In my games lately the warriors haven't been bad, either. There really is a lack of s8+ weapons now that the game has gone to hull points glancing out vehicles with S7. The occasional battle cannon or basilisk definitely causes them some concern but overall it's S6 and S7 spam where i play. Also at base level, they're a small, easily hidden fearless scoring unit. Not terrible at shooting, and actually pretty decent in melee.

I might just for fun run a whole warrior-sized list in the near future and see how it performs. Hive guard included, of course, and zoanthropes just for the anti-tank.

My zoeys often go unchallenged by my enemy...they just float up doing nothing and then go berserk on units. I think people have prioritization issues with them.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just wish the Tyranid Prime didn't take up an HQ slot and wasn't hideously overpriced.

Well, if you take a Synapse Node Formation (I haven't ever yet...) You get a Prime outside FOC, and she's got and enhanced Synapse bubble (18"? ) Maybe this is the way to use it....

Doh! should have read the thread before replying! Deathleapered!

I love how Deathleaper'd is now a thing.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I love how Deathleaper'd is now a thing.

Used to use "lictored" all the time.

Deathleaper just brings it to the extreme.

Came home to find my Heirophant has arrived from China!


I have no idea where to start with it but Ill get around to it after the Wraithknight/Jetbikes/Terrain pieces/buying and moving into a home/ gets done.

Making some Bug terrain over here if anyone likes to DIY.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592444.page

 Iechine wrote:
Came home to find my Heirophant has arrived from China!


I have no idea where to start with it but Ill get around to it after the Wraithknight/Jetbikes/Terrain pieces/buying and moving into a home/ gets done.

Making some Bug terrain over here if anyone likes to DIY.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592444.page

Sup China Hierophant buddy!

Literally working on painting mine right now



You'll have fun making it.

I'm debating how to go about it...I want it to stand just on its legs during games and on a mount when its stored, but I've yet to find out how structurally sound its going to be. Definitely pinning it though, heavy duty.

There's two ways you can go:
1) Chop up the legs and pin them to keep them straight, as they can't support the weight of the body.

2) Make a stand under the body itself to take all the weight, like I've done above. This also lets you magnetise the limbs for easier transport/storage. Mine fit in a single KR case that way.

You think cutting the legs in half and heavy pinning it is enough?

 xttz wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Came home to find my Heirophant has arrived from China!


I have no idea where to start with it but Ill get around to it after the Wraithknight/Jetbikes/Terrain pieces/buying and moving into a home/ gets done.

Making some Bug terrain over here if anyone likes to DIY.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592444.page

Sup China Hierophant buddy!

Literally working on painting mine right now



You'll have fun making it.

You should have had your computer display this photo for a recursion.

Not sure how you'd do that, but it'd make for an amusing gag.

Going to a 2000pt, no double force org, no fortifications tourney this weekend. They aren't allowing formations in this one, but plan to in the future. I'm expecting an uphill fight all day.
Here's what I'm planning on running:

Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander
Dakka Flyrant

Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
30 Termagaunts with 20 spinefists and 10 devourers
Tervigon
3 warriors with a barbed strangler
3 warriors with a barbed strangler

Hive Crone

Exocrine
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon

76 models
15 units
6 troops
7 MCs; 3 of them flyers
4 pyskers
4 pinning weapons

Not sure how I feel about it, but I didn't have all of my models built yet and had to improvise. I think it has potential.

omerakk wrote:
Going to a 2000pt, no double force org, no fortifications tourney this weekend. They aren't allowing formations in this one, but plan to in the future. I'm expecting an uphill fight all day.
Here's what I'm planning on running:

Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander
Dakka Flyrant

Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
30 Termagaunts with 20 spinefists and 10 devourers
Tervigon
3 warriors with a barbed strangler
3 warriors with a barbed strangler

Hive Crone

Exocrine
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon

76 models
15 units
6 troops
7 MCs; 3 of them flyers
4 pyskers
4 pinning weapons

Not sure how I feel about it, but I didn't have all of my models built yet and had to improvise. I think it has potential.

Dosen't look bad I dunno about spending for Adrenals on the Hormigaunts though...At this high point levels I'd suggest Doubling up your Thrope Broods. Running solos just seems like giving away First Blood. 140 points to double them out...

Knowing the terrain they use... I don't think there is any way to stop first blood from happening if my opponents go first lol but good point.

I thought adrenal glands on the gaunts might make them useful enough to glance down some of the more vehicle heavy armies... but on second thought, I doubt enough of them will live to be any help. Ok, that's 60 extra points to work with right now... now to figure out what cuts and adjustments to make.

omerakk wrote:
Knowing the terrain they use... I don't think there is any way to stop first blood from happening if my opponents go first lol but good point.

I thought adrenal glands on the gaunts might make them useful enough to glance down some of the more vehicle heavy armies... but on second thought, I doubt enough of them will live to be any help. Ok, that's 60 extra points to work with right now... now to figure out what cuts and adjustments to make.

Looking at the troops there, you're probably better off with one brood of 20-25 vanilla hormas for objective-grabbing and tarpitting. The current meta leans more toward AV13+ and flyers, so trying to glance down AV10 probably won't come up too much. I also find broods of 15 or less Hormas will take too much damage to be effective before they reach anything.

You can use the extra points for a few useful things:

Doubling up venoms or the zoanthrope broods

More firepower on the Fexes. A HVC can't hurt, and secondary devourers can also be handy if you really need to finish off a damaged flyer.

A template weapon for the Tervigon (Shreddershard or ESG are good options)

Regen for a Flyrant to try and deny Slay the Warlord

Wow....I've been out of this thread for a few days and it has really ballooned (about 10+ pgs since I was last here).

Any experiences against the new Astra Militarum? I've only played against them once (not with my bugs) and they appear to be quite strong.

I'm thinking of taking my nids up to Frontline and challenging Reece's AM army (which so far is undefeated).





Automatically Appended Next Post:

omerakk wrote:
Going to a 2000pt, no double force org, no fortifications tourney this weekend. They aren't allowing formations in this one, but plan to in the future. I'm expecting an uphill fight all day.
Here's what I'm planning on running:

Dakka Flyrant with Hive Commander
Dakka Flyrant

Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
15 Hormagaunts with adrenal glands
30 Termagaunts with 20 spinefists and 10 devourers
Tervigon
3 warriors with a barbed strangler
3 warriors with a barbed strangler

Hive Crone

Exocrine
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon
Carnifex with stranglethorn cannon

76 models
15 units
6 troops
7 MCs; 3 of them flyers
4 pyskers
4 pinning weapons

Not sure how I feel about it, but I didn't have all of my models built yet and had to improvise. I think it has potential.

I wouldn't focus so much on the troops. Rather, I'd probably focus more on the FA or Heavies. For your list, I'd drop 1 unit of warriors and some hormagants (probably combine the 2 to make 1 large, potentially outflanking unit). Then I'd get another hive crone if you've got the model.

Would love to see Nids go up against AM, especially with the skyblight formation. Seems a good test against an army that we historically have trouble with


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are on using two squads of warriors rather than the tervigon and gant tax for a skyblight list. My thinking is that I'd like to give them a try in a Skyblight list that I'm finishing building up:

Flyrant w/2 TL Dev
Flyrant w/2 TL Dev
Flyrant w/2 TL Dev

Venomthrope

Bastion

3 Warriors
3 Warriors

Harpy
Harpy
Hive Crone
Hive Crone

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

That is 1750 by the way

I'm aware that the Tervigon is typically better, but I feel like with the venom in a bastion, the warriors' durability increases nicely, not to mention how much cheaper they are. They'll be camping the backfield (in 2 places instead of just one) and taking advantage of a 2+ or at worst 3+ cover until the venom is dealt with (which might not be so soon with all the FMCs to worry about, who will ALSO benefit greatly from the venomthrope. Effective 3++ for much of the first couple turns against anything that's not ignores cover AND sky fire? Thank you very much.

luke1705 wrote:
Would love to see Nids go up against AM, especially with the skyblight formation. Seems a good test against an army that we historically have trouble with


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering what your guys' thoughts are on using two squads of warriors rather than the tervigon and gant tax for a skyblight list. My thinking is that I'd like to give them a try in a Skyblight list that I'm finishing building up:

Flyrant w/2 TL Dev
Flyrant w/2 TL Dev
Flyrant w/2 TL Dev

Venomthrope

Bastion

3 Warriors
3 Warriors

Harpy
Harpy
Hive Crone
Hive Crone

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

That is 1750 by the way

I'm aware that the Tervigon is typically better, but I feel like with the venom in a bastion, the warriors' durability increases nicely, not to mention how much cheaper they are. They'll be camping the backfield (in 2 places instead of just one) and taking advantage of a 2+ or at worst 3+ cover until the venom is dealt with (which might not be so soon with all the FMCs to worry about, who will ALSO benefit greatly from the venomthrope. Effective 3++ for much of the first couple turns against anything that's not ignores cover AND sky fire? Thank you very much.

This is the sort of build I'd reccomend If only there was room for Zoey I think you'll have good results with this.

(I'd use 1 Winged Assassin, but that is because that's "how I roll" )

I gave the winged assassin some thought, but realized that for most targets having all that extra shooting does more, for 15 points less. Also it wouldn't allow the bastion to be in the list.

luke1705 wrote:
I gave the winged assassin some thought, but realized that for most targets having all that extra shooting does more, for 15 points less. Also it wouldn't allow the bastion to be in the list.

Cool, though my "Base" build is Winged, LW/BS, Toxic....230 points. Toss in extras as points allow (I'd find 10 for a hive without fail...)

I had a game against Skyblight today. I got so screwed over, it wasn't even funny. I was running triptide Tau. Yes its a bit of a rude (substituting that for what I would normally say) move, but still it wasnt funny how it ended. Long story short, I killed all of his FMCs, it was looking very good for me by turn 3, I still had all three tides, and he had no more FMC, yada yada yada. But come turn four, one of my Riptides went down. Ok, I still have 2 more. Here is where it went wrong on turn 4. My opponent was taking 30 gargoyles. This made his Tervigon scoring. So I have bad target priority and go for his gargoyles because they are near the relic. I make the mistake of killing them. They go back into ongoing reserves, come back onto the Relic via DS. Come my turn 5 I kill them again. But I soon realize that the Tervigon is scoring! He moves and runs it onto the relic. SH*T! with this it is 4-3 him. I have First Blood, Warlord, and Line Breaker. He has Warlord.

As it stands now, on a 3+ the game will continue, I will be able to kill the Tervigon with my two remaining Riptides, and my Kroot would be able to reach the relic (not that it would really matter because my opponent would be tabled anyway). So I need the game to continue. My opponent rolls his bright green Nurgle dice and...



Thanks you guys for listening to my little batrep in a nutshell (or paragraph in this case), and let me know what you think!

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I had a game against Skyblight today. I got so screwed over, it wasn't even funny. I was running triptide Tau. Yes its a bit of a rude (substituting that for what I would normally say) move, but still it wasnt funny how it ended. Long story short, I killed all of his FMCs, it was looking very good for me by turn 3, I still had all three tides, and he had no more FMC, yada yada yada. But come turn four, one of my Riptides went down. Ok, I still have 2 more. Here is where it went wrong on turn 4. My opponent was taking 30 gargoyles. This made his Tervigon scoring. So I have bad target priority and go for his gargoyles because they are near the relic. I make the mistake of killing them. They go back into ongoing reserves, come back onto the Relic via DS. Come my turn 5 I kill them again. But I soon realize that the Tervigon is scoring! He moves and runs it onto the relic. SH*T! with this it is 4-3 him. I have First Blood, Warlord, and Line Breaker. He has Warlord.

As it stands now, on a 3+ the game will continue, I will be able to kill the Tervigon with my two remaining Riptides, and my Kroot would be able to reach the relic (not that it would really matter because my opponent would be tabled anyway). So I need the game to continue. My opponent rolls his bright green Nurgle dice and...

Spoiler:

Its a fething 2!!! My defeat was so horrible based on how the game was mine the whole time. So why am I posting this? I just wanted to share my experience playing against Nids and specifically Skyblight with my Tau. I made the mistake of not going for his troops when I needed to and focused a little too much on his last Harpie when it would not have done much. I was wondering of what you guys thought of this in general. Also, is there a rule that the person who goes second rolls to see if the game ends on turn 5, and then the first player on 6? It just came up in the FLGS just because of course after he rolls his 2, I roll my dice for fun, oh and of course that was a 3!!!

Thanks you guys for listening to my little batrep in a nutshell (or paragraph in this case), and let me know what you think!

Triple Burstide Tau is arguably one of the toughest matchups for bugs, even Skyblight. If not for skyblight, this is probably the worst matchup I can think of for FMC-tyranids.

Target priority is the key when playing against the bugs. Kill the Synapse and the flyers. Gargoyles are only a threat when they get closer. Whittle them down but try not to finish them off until Turn 5. Always go after the flyrants (and any venomthropes within reach....an easy enough feat with nova-charged SMS).

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
My opponent was taking 30 gargoyles. This made his Tervigon scoring.

Worth noting that this is not the case. Taking at least 3 broods of gargoyles (each anywhere from 10-30 models) is a requirement for the skyblight formation, not the Tervigon. You need a single squad of 30 Termagants to make a Tervigon scoring. You guys probably played it right, but I just wanted to clarify

luke1705 wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
My opponent was taking 30 gargoyles. This made his Tervigon scoring.

Worth noting that this is not the case. Taking at least 3 broods of gargoyles (each anywhere from 10-30 models) is a requirement for the skyblight formation, not the Tervigon. You need a single squad of 30 Termagants to make a Tervigon scoring. You guys probably played it right, but I just wanted to clarify

Also, he could only deep strike those gargoyles if he had started them deep striking in reserves. If they began on the table, they enter normally.

Even if you are playing by the ridiculous Deep Strike RAW that says units forget how to Deep Strike if they start on the table, The Gargoyle units created by the Skyswarm rule always start in Ongoing Reserves, it's impossible to have them start on the board.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Even if you are playing by the ridiculous Deep Strike RAW that says units forget how to Deep Strike if they start on the table, The Gargoyle units created by the Skyswarm rule always start in Ongoing Reserves, it's impossible to have them start on the board.

Trust me, I hope and think that's how an FAQ would rule it, by locally we tend towards RAW sadly.

Um, the RAW IS that they start in Ongoing Reserves, it says so right there in Skyswarm.
It is literally impossible to have a Skyswarm Gargoyle unit in reserves that didn't start there.

Yeah, Prince is right. Looking at the 'slate right now. Any unit of Gargoyles from a Skyblight that is killed is reformed and dropped into OR.

Strangely enough, we don't have any real Tau players in our local playgroup, and only one Eldar outside of myself. Since I am rocking 'nids now, my normal playgroup is mostly imperials (Guard and Marines).

I do have a friend with a heavy metal AM list that I am looking forward to playing, though.

Yeah, real hard to feel sorry for a Trip-Tide Tau player finding a list to be tough... It sounds like the Nids worked as desired. Threat Overload is based on the concept of messing up target priority. And that sounds like that's what happened. It is kinda sad though that even with so much going the Nids way...it took a lucky die roll to pull out a win ....

It seems like a Lot of people are using 30 Termigants+ Tervigon, as the Troops in the base formation. A little pricey for me, but I guess it depends on the budget....

I played against a Tyranid player who was just getting back into it after a hiatus, on my new FRONTLINE GAMING MAT for the first time. I have to say his army looked awesome, he said his theme was Bugs eating metal. So here is some Nid porn.











The only tactics I learned however, was that you CAN ID a Harpy with a Fex's Rupture Cannon on turn one. I failed my save. :(

I brought a friendly list and tabled him, but it felt good because the entire time he was relearning 6th ed rules and new bug rules, so I feel like I helped a fellow Tyranid out and we both had a good time. Again, his army looked awesome.

So with all these hierophants floating around, has anyone actually played with them using the most recent apocalypse rules? Seems like having them run around with a prime and a venomthrope embarked inside would be pretty ridiculous.

Ok, so I am looking at Tyranids and am trying to find the most competitive list. I am fairly sure that it includes Skyblight, but can someone aid me in my search? I have combed over this forum to the best of my ability, but it is quite dense with information.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Ok, so I am looking at Tyranids and am trying to find the most competitive list. I am fairly sure that it includes Skyblight, but can someone aid me in my search? I have combed over this forum to the best of my ability, but it is quite dense with information.

Well, the basics are...

HQ: Flyrants with Devourers
Elites: Solo venomthropes in a fortification, or Zoanthropes
Troops: Tervigon, 30 gants, and small gant broods OR 3 Warriors and lots of MSU gants
Fast Attack: Crones, and the necessities for Skyblight
Heavy Support: Here is the variety... Tyrannofex, Exocrines, Carnifex, Biovores and Mawlocs are all good.

So, the list: If you have the cash, Skyblight is brutally good. But it requires 7 flying monstrous creatures and at least 5 troop boxes...

Otherwise: 3-4 FMCs and a good ground presence. Look into the Living Artillery Node, it's amazing. Here's a basic 1850, no formations list:

2x Flyrants, Devourers
Venomthrope in a Bastion
30 gants
Tervigon
10 gants
10 gants
3 Warriors, Barbed Strangler
2x Crone
Tyrannofex
Exocrine
3 Biovores

It gives you lots of Troops, good synapse, boosted cover, a few big MCs and 4 Flying Monstrous Creatures. Plus, you can take out scoring units and transports to win objective games.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Ok, so I am looking at Tyranids and am trying to find the most competitive list. I am fairly sure that it includes Skyblight, but can someone aid me in my search? I have combed over this forum to the best of my ability, but it is quite dense with information.

Take a look over in Army Lists...I just saw a Skyblight list on the first or second pages 1750 I believe...