BRB. : 242 COMMAND POINTS When you build a Battle-forged army, it will have a number of Command Points. These can be spent to utilise Stratagems – each of which represents a strategic or tactical asset available to your army. All Battle-forged armies start with 3 Command Points. The simplest way to accrue more Command Points is to take more Detachments – many of which increase your total number of Command Points. You can spend Command Points to use a Stratagem before or during a battle. Each time you use a Stratagem, reduce your Command Points total by the appropriateamount. If you do not have enough Command Points for a specific Stratagem, you cannot use it. Unless other wise noted, you can use the same Stratagem multiple times during the course of a battle. The different Stratagems available to players depend on the mission they are playing. Players can always use the three Stratagems presented below, but some missions, battlezones and expansions may introduce additional Stratagems to your battles.
To keep this on topic:
Anyone tried a advancing nephrek monolith for objective grabbing and blocking LoS?
Necron_Mason wrote: I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP
Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...
Necron_Mason wrote: I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP
Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...
It may be an ITC or some tournament rule. It's definltely not in the main rulebook.
Necron_Mason wrote: I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP
Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...
Neither GW or FLG have made that a rule, but I know of some smaller tourneys that have. It was bandied about in response to Tau Commander spam and the cultist sorcerer lists that happened right when 8th was released.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: That's the main problem with the sniper barge- having to build around it. It uses up your relic and warlord trait which are needed for other things quite often.
Mephrit is great for our troops and they like to have a VoD so that costs a CP. Warriors really like mephrit but if you're using warrior blobs you need the ignore morale warlord trait.
Need is a strong word. The warlord trait and relic can be useful elsewhere, but it really comes down to your builds. I rarely use warriors other than a unit for distraction or objective holding, so I'm not so concerned with keeping them around in the face of concentrated fire, as that is futile. If you are running multiple warrior blobs then yeah, I can see putting the effort in to keep them durable. It's also not really difficult to work one into a list as I think they are well worth the -1 cp for an auxiliary detachment.
BRB. : 242 COMMAND POINTS
When you build a Battle-forged army, it will have a number of Command Points. These can be spent to utilise Stratagems – each of which represents a strategic or tactical asset available to your army. All Battle-forged armies start with 3 Command Points. The simplest way to accrue more Command Points is to take more Detachments – many of which increase your total number of Command Points. You can spend Command Points to use a Stratagem before or during a battle. Each time you use a Stratagem, reduce your Command Points total by the appropriateamount. If you do not have enough Command Points for a specific Stratagem, you cannot use it. Unless other wise noted, you can use the same Stratagem multiple times during the course of a battle. The different Stratagems available to players depend on the mission they are playing. Players can always use the three Stratagems presented below, but some missions, battlezones and expansions may introduce additional Stratagems to your battles.
To keep this on topic:
Anyone tried a advancing nephrek monolith for objective grabbing and blocking LoS?
Necron_Mason wrote: I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP
Wasn't there a rule that said you can't have duplicate types of detachments in a list?
Like, I can't remember if it was an actual rule book rule for matched play, or something from Chapter Approved, or like an ITC restriction, or something?
Or was it just my imagination...
Neither GW or FLG have made that a rule, but I know of some smaller tourneys that have. It was bandied about in response to Tau Commander spam and the cultist sorcerer lists that happened right when 8th was released.
Yeah, its more of a Tourney thing were they don't allow duplicate attachments.
meleti wrote: Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.
The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.
All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.
Xachariah wrote:I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.
I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.
Lessons
- Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat.
- Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament.
- Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP.
- Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24".
- Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job.
- Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play.
- Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part.
- I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron_Mason wrote: Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.
Thanks for the information, always good to hear. I'm fairly nonplussed by the results since it was pre-FAQ and things should look different going forward, a lot of the things we were weak against are phasing out and we should have a slightly equal or easier time against the new meta.
If not Mephrit, what will you go for? I've been running Sautekh mostly for the Warlord Trait and Methodical Destruction, but lately I've been thinking of Nephrekh with a Sautekh Warlord (especially Imotekh since he can still MWBD things, though other options are good). I agree Mephrit is not as insane as people thought they would be.
I think 3 units of Destroyers is overkill. I do want to try out 2 like you said, they're insanely efficient and can really cut down the enemy in ways they might not suspect.
I also agree Wraiths can end up disappointing, especially if you whiff the save rolls for them, but they play an important role as a way to tie up hitty enemy units and a fast way to threaten important shooting units that don't want to be in combat. I think 10 is too many, I generally run my unit of 6 and call it there.
To get the wheels turning, what do you guys think about adding a section the front page about specific matchup tips?
vs. Tau
The first step in beating Tau is to Kill the marker lights, you won't get them all, since they'll be hiding some marker lights on sergeants and the like, but make sure pathfinders and marker light drones are dead as soon as possible. Tau generally have a low BS, and marker lights give them a lot of benefits to shooting though the ones we have to worry about are reroll ones (1 marker light) and +1 to hit (5 marker lights).
Remember that Drones are a separate unit, and can be targeted individually, so it's generally a good idea to clear out nearby drones with warriors/immortals before shooting with units like destroyers. Drones also have bad leadership, but the unit size is usually small enough for it to not matter.
Since we don't have abilities like null zone, you'll just have to accept that sometimes a riptide isn't a good target. If your opponent is running the branching nova charge stratagem (and they will every round) often your best bet is to let it cook itself for a few rounds before you commit. Riptides take a mortal wound from rolling any 1s on their ion accelerator and from nova charging. If they don't have any marker lights you can expect that they will have lost between 4 and 6 wounds by turn three, which makes it easier to push them into lower wound profiles.
Multicharge like it's your job. Thanks to the greater good nearby units will overwatch you anyway, so might as well declare charges against them as well, in case you get a good roll, or plan on using blood rites.
Split your wraiths, I'm not one to tailor lists, but if you are worried about tau this is a pretty easy way to frustrate them. Tau depend on marker lights to alpha which is a very finite resource, so it's harder for them to engage two units than it is to engage one larger unit. This will interfere with the repair protocols stratagem, which may or may not matter at all depending on matchup.
Mind your screens, Tau have some great deep striking/infiltrating units, so you need to be careful to not expose your HQ. If you have an HQ and you feel confident in it's survival (A CCB with the lighting field relic) you can bait the assassination attempt by hanging back slightly, and then taking out the deep strikers.
I have only done this once, but vs tau the obelisk is simply deadly. Drop it in, use the stratagem to do mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 6+, then hit the drones first. That should kill half of them right there. Then hit the units, normally the player will allocate any wounds to the drones again taking out most of the rest. The obelisk will also become a fire magnet after that, so that gives you basically a free turn to not have to worry about your stuff getting targeted so move your stuff like your getting a free turn. Yes it's expensive and only really useful vs heavy flyer unit based armies but the look on your opponents face when he realized he lost most his drones and some of he suits just took wounds is priceless.
Deceiver is especially nice vs Tau so you don't have to foot slog through those 36" range he is likely to have on his fire warriors, Deceiver and Veil might get you quite a few units up quickly to negate his range advantage
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azuza001 wrote: I have only done this once, but vs tau the obelisk is simply deadly. Drop it in, use the stratagem to do mortal wounds on a 4+ instead of 6+, then hit the drones first. That should kill half of them right there. Then hit the units, normally the player will allocate any wounds to the drones again taking out most of the rest. The obelisk will also become a fire magnet after that, so that gives you basically a free turn to not have to worry about your stuff getting targeted so move your stuff like your getting a free turn. Yes it's expensive and only really useful vs heavy flyer unit based armies but the look on your opponents face when he realized he lost most his drones and some of he suits just took wounds is priceless.
Turn 2 deepstrike does hurt it a bit though.
Also the thing has awesome LOS due to its size and can help finish off those drones with it's teslas
Tau also don't have an abundance of -1 to hit modifiers, making Tesla pretty effective vs them. Destroyers should have the range and movement to get to most targets, but are going to need to camp in cover.
Requizen wrote: Thanks for the information, always good to hear. I'm fairly nonplussed by the results since it was pre-FAQ and things should look different going forward, a lot of the things we were weak against are phasing out and we should have a slightly equal or easier time against the new meta.
If not Mephrit, what will you go for? I've been running Sautekh mostly for the Warlord Trait and Methodical Destruction, but lately I've been thinking of Nephrekh with a Sautekh Warlord (especially Imotekh since he can still MWBD things, though other options are good). I agree Mephrit is not as insane as people thought they would be.
I think 3 units of Destroyers is overkill. I do want to try out 2 like you said, they're insanely efficient and can really cut down the enemy in ways they might not suspect.
I also agree Wraiths can end up disappointing, especially if you whiff the save rolls for them, but they play an important role as a way to tie up hitty enemy units and a fast way to threaten important shooting units that don't want to be in combat. I think 10 is too many, I generally run my unit of 6 and call it there.
Mephrit's weakness wasn't in the dynastic code, but in my inability to leverage it properly. A bunch of ObSec troops don't get to dictate when you're within 12". I'd probably move my main detachment to Sautekh, move Mephrit to an outrider, and drop Novokh.
Regarding not like wraiths but liking Destroyers, I'm considering running Destroyers (and Tomb Blades) as wraiths. Against gunlines, fly the Tomb Blades / Destroyers forward, shoot enemies up, then charge with them. 18 wounds at 3+ is better than wraiths if the enemy doesn't have melee AP, since you get +2". Against assault, use them in layers to take charges and and shoot down the enemy (or just use their speed to stay out of melee entirely).
I'd have to playtest it though, since right now I'm just spitballing.
The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.
skoffs wrote: The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting). Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat? ... Well, good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Actually its not a bad idea. Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up. They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.
I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
Xachariah wrote: I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.
I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.
Lessons
- Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat.
- Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament.
- Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP.
- Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24".
- Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job.
- Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play.
- Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part.
- I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron_Mason wrote: Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.
Right off the bat:
1) 1150pts for what? 18 models? You really seem low on model and vulnerable to multi wounds. Won't be able to clear out 60 cultist/other crap either.
2) Mephrit will shine on warriors / arks. LOADS of shot, praticaly double their AP effectiveness.
3) Immortal pride again will be useful for warrior blobs. Anything over 10+ minis that may have morale test.
4) Wraith are the worst punching combat unit we have, i posted the mathhammer some 30 pages back. They are durable, but also fire magnets. 550 points of flayed ones, lychguard, pretorians will deal more damage. I personnaly prefer scarabs to block and draw fire. Scarabs can also advance + charge and even RP, and i always blow one up for D3 MW, it draws attention. I really don't care about its offensive capabilities and don,t have to take a novokh detachment with them, nephrek fits them better. I swear, 8/10 games people waste their first turn trying to wipeout my scarabs, i just don't care!
5) No DDA?
6) 5 man immortals need sautekh stratagem. I did a number on tyranids whiping out 2 huge units with my 5X5 immo still standing. He didn't see that coming.
I'd say just increase your footprint by removing 6 destro or wraith and put more boots on the ground. Sautekh bataillon + nephrek outrider would be better too. Just my 2 cents.
Doctoralex wrote: I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
A scarab screen is a given. Or even a tomb blade screen. Something quick that can take a beating so the c'tan won't get immediately shot.
If you are taking a C'tan its because you want to dish out mortal wounds. So get them in a position to throw mortal wounds at something that really doesn't like mortal wounds.
Doctoralex wrote: I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
Nightbrigner you keep back unit somehting BIG comes in range, then you KILL it. Only Magnus can survive him. Also know that it's 200pts dedicated to killing big things, you need less DDA / destroyers in that case.
Deceiver, after his trick he becomes less good. You want to take him upward screened. Warriors + Ghost ark with characters in it is a good thing to grand illusion with him. Or he can just grand illusion destroyers or redeploy to take advantage of cover.
Still there are plenty of good C'Tan powers out there. Some for multi-units. Some for big units. Some for single strong target. Some for 3-4 wounds big models in squads. And there's a stratagem to throw an extra power every turn. So you get plenty of MW potential. Just use them wisely: vs targets that have high armor / invu save the rest of your army have trouble dealing with. I usually soften the target up with MW before finishing it with a charge or a big shot.
skoffs wrote: The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.
Actually its not a bad idea.
Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up.
They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.
Agreed. It would depend on the situation, but by locking yourself in combat you are also giving up and overwatch shots that might be useful. Hard to say, more of a judgement based on the game conditions i think.
Xachariah wrote:Mephrit's weakness wasn't in the dynastic code, but in my inability to leverage it properly. A bunch of ObSec troops don't get to dictate when you're within 12". I'd probably move my main detachment to Sautekh, move Mephrit to an outrider, and drop Novokh.
Nah, I'm pretty sure Mephrit is a trap. It encourages you to get your shooty dudes into close distances. While we like Rapid Fire range, once you're inside that 12" mark, our troops generally just get shot and charged and die after. It's really hard to take advantage of it early unless you teleport/Deceiver, at which point you've split your forces and are probably in a bad position, unless you deck an important unit quickly. Nephrekh, Sautekh, and even Novokh can play to the strengths of the units without needing to get into risky positions, and have other strengths going for them as well.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
skoffs wrote: The goal of shooty guys is to stay out of combat so they'll be able to keep doing what they do best (shooting).
Instead you want to take our BEST shooty guys and purposely stick them *into* combat?
... Well, good luck.
Let us know how it goes.
Actually its not a bad idea.
Destroyers have 2 attacks each which is high for a shooty unit and their hatred buff works in all phases. They do have a chance of finishing off or crippling whatever squad they just lit up.
They can fly, so there is no downside to leaving CC, and if they are locked in combat during the enemy turn they can't be shot. If the engaged enemy squad leaves its effectively out of the fight for a turn, unless it can also fly or has some special rule.
Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.
I think Mephrit seems like it would be good for things like ghost arks because of the fly rule....maybe even a monolith, if it weren't for the cost. for troops I think you're just going to get caught in close combat and lose units.....if you used something like tomb blades that have fly you could potentially get on high structures for some protection from a charge......but it's too situational.
Mephrit seems to only be beneficial for very short periods of the game and specific situations. If I were going to use it I'd be stocking up on warriors and/or ghost arks.
Sautekh seems more applicable for larger portions of the game as it allows us more mobility while still being able to shoot....plus the warlord trait is useful.
I don't feel like any of our dynastic codes are outstanding. They have some cool features, but it seems to me that the stars of the show are in the stratagems.
I don't feel like the codes will make or break your army (barring the cc one) so long as you're smart about your stratagems and list building.
Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.
Yes, because all enemy units have thunder hammers and terminator armor Or you can charge that unit of hellblasters that you didn't quite kill off. Or stealth suits. You know, stuff that can't actually fight back or have been crippled in the shooting phase.
EnTyme wrote: So what would be the viability of a Star God Pantheon list? 3x Tesseract Vault, 3x Transcendent C'Tan, and one of each named.
So no less than 6 T Vault kits, expensive fun
Edit: nr of kits
Yeah. It'd be crazy expensive, but if you're in a casual meta, they may let you run the vaults without the C'Tan glued to it, or you could work some eBay magic. Just think it could be a fun gimmick list to run. May cost me a friend or two, though.
Doctoralex wrote:I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
Nightbringer is a part of my Deceiver bomb... turn #1 Threat Overload.
Deceiver, and Nightbringer for sure, Wraiths if I get a 3 or a 4... 10 tesla immortals if I luck out and get a 5 or a 6 on the Deceiver's roll (though I might hold the Immortals back depending on the opponents army.
Doctoralex wrote:I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
Nightbringer is a part of my Deceiver bomb... turn #1 Threat Overload.
Deceiver, and Nightbringer for sure, Wraiths if I get a 3 or a 4... 10 tesla immortals if I luck out and get a 5 or a 6 on the Deceiver's roll (though I might hold the Immortals back depending on the opponents army.
That's a hefty point investment though. If you're playing against a good opponent, they're going to make sure you lose those units.....but I can see how you could use that to your advantage. However, if you don't get the first turn you've invested over 1/5 of your army to a strategy you didn't get to pull off.
EnTyme wrote: So what would be the viability of a Star God Pantheon list? 3x Tesseract Vault, 3x Transcendent C'Tan, and one of each named.
So no less than 6 T Vault kits, expensive fun
Edit: nr of kits
This is one scenario id suggest recasts for. The T'Ctan should have a single release. Making it only bundle with the vault is a low blow. I had a hell of a time getting the three vaults that i have. I dont want to think about six.
Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.
Yes, because all enemy units have thunder hammers and terminator armor Or you can charge that unit of hellblasters that you didn't quite kill off. Overwatch isn't that scary.
Sure, situationally using Destroyers/Tomb Blades to finish off a shooting unit is one thing. But the idea of trading out Wraiths and replacing with "well I'll just charge with my Destroyers" means you're going to get caught out by a lot of nasty stuff that Wraiths wouldn't care about as much.
Yeah, trading out wraiths to use destroyers as a close combat unit isn't a good idea. Destroyers may be decent in CC compared to immortals, but there are better tools for that.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
C) Its also huge. Where are you going to store 3 vaults?
D) How often are you going to play with 3 vaults? Its not a good investment.
Just wait for GW to drag their heads out of their asses and release T C'tan as an independent kit. This may take as long as the SoB release.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
It'd also be quite a feat considering GW does not currently make this kit.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
It'd also be quite a feat considering GW does not currently make this kit.
??? Care to elaborate? It's currently out of stock, but not unavailable. If enough people click the notification button, they'll do another print run.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
It'd also be quite a feat considering GW does not currently make this kit.
??? Care to elaborate? It's currently out of stock, but not unavailable. If enough people click the notification button, they'll do another print run.
They're going to be like Carnifexes - hardly ever in stock, but GW is nowhere near discontinuing them. I wouldn't be surprised if Doomsday Arks end up being similarly difficult to acquire, too.
Nah it's not great imo. Sure, Destroyers and Tomb Blades aren't absolute garbage in combat, and can fall back and shoot, but they don't do the things that Wraiths and Scarabs do, which is tie up actually scary melee units. Throwing Canoptek units into things with high AP, high Damage weapons is ok because Wraiths have the 3++ and Scarabs are dirt cheap. Throwing away Destroyers or Tomb Blades into units of Thunder Hammers or big nasties like Hive Tyrants is just silly and a great way to lose your important units.
Yes, because all enemy units have thunder hammers and terminator armor Or you can charge that unit of hellblasters that you didn't quite kill off. Overwatch isn't that scary.
Sure, situationally using Destroyers/Tomb Blades to finish off a shooting unit is one thing. But the idea of trading out Wraiths and replacing with "well I'll just charge with my Destroyers" means you're going to get caught out by a lot of nasty stuff that Wraiths wouldn't care about as much.
It's a very good strategy against AM. Move up to shoot his artillery pieces, then charge into the guardsmen, either encircle some to keep them locked in combat, or fan out and charge as many as possible, including the vehicles of course, and he is now forced to waste his orders letting the guardsmen shoot, instead of giving them double shooting. And it'll push them backwards and backwards, denying them board control.
I want to try to use the monolith.
So what does it have?
1- Blocks LOS 2- Draw fire from big guns, can't really hide
3- Deepstrike for free
4- Make deepstrike other units. Like many at once.
5- Best if not the only way to teleport CC troops in manageable charge distance.
6- Shoots like a DDA that moves and scores a 6 on its D6 shots
7- Mostly imprevious to S3-S4 swarms of troops. Otherwise not an easy target to bring down, need focused fire. But it can be shot down in one turn preventing disembarking units.
8- Too expensive if you only look at the stats.
9- Work with Sautekh, Mephrit, Nikiliah
10- Proven alpha striker with the deceiver and teleportation corridor stratagem.
Seems to me in maps that use few LOS blocking scenery, monolith can help protect your units while they advance.
You have to shoot down any direct treats like macro and heavy weapons.
Having a cloacktek and a spyder is not a bad idea.
You may want to try a novokh close combat army with those. Droping lychguards, flayed ones, warriors, immortals here and there.
Monolith are not needed for wraiths, destroyers, pretorians, are a substitute to DDA, barges and stalker.
Is 2 monolith too much? What if you grand illusion 2 monoliths with the deceiver? Or you may just throw a monolith as a giant bait while the rest of your army manoeuvre.
So do you think there's something manageable there?
I have a suggestion
Spoiler:
Combat Bataillon +5CP Novokh
Unit Qty Unit Type COST
1 1 Anrakyr the Traveler HQ 167
1 1 Cryptek +cloak HQ 85
3 10 Immortals T 510
1 1 C'Tan Deceiver E 225
1 10 Flayed Ones E 170
1 10 Flayed Ones E 170
1 10 Lychguard E 300
1 1 Monolith Hv 381
2008
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
TOO LATE!
A. have you tried it?
B. Even if its amazing i highly doubt it will ever be prevalent. They are strong and are likely to do well in GW events but that list will struggle with ITC missions.
So I just competed in the 3rd biggest team tournament in the world, and I scored the most points in our team with my crons, and we came 3rd overall.
I ran Neprekh.
Cryptek w chrono, LF 5 TImmortals
1 Nightbringer
1 TCtan
6 Destroyers
8 Blades, 8 vanes, 6 looms
5 wraiths
Ctan and their powers, are ridiculous. The Destroyers would drop down, kill the biggest threat and then when the Ctan would get into range, holy hell the mortal wounds they would dish out, on top of the vicious damage they do close range is amazing. Its not uber competitive, I got tabled by tank heavy guard, and we still struggle with vehicles but we are a good codex now. Mucho strongo.
I think there is still a case for destroyers post nerf, just have to keep coherency with cryptek T1, pref in cover out of LoS
Doctoralex wrote: I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
After a bit more testing, the C'tan are basically swiss army knives. The Nightbringer gives you a solution to cc threats, while the transcendent ctan inflicts more mortal wounds.
It comes down to what gap you wanna patch in your list, and whether it has the flexibility to adjust, if you end up facing an opponent without deepstrike, or doesn't really care abt distraction fexes.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
TOO LATE!
A. have you tried it?
B. Even if its amazing i highly doubt it will ever be prevalent. They are strong and are likely to do well in GW events but that list will struggle with ITC missions.
At that very same team tournament, there was a 3 vault list (one was mine). It performed as you would expect, its a linear list if your list cant deal with 84 t7 4++ wounds youll lose. It went 20-0, 20-0, 0-20, 20-0.
A better list runs 2 and the deciver and gets rid of their main problem, range. GI all 3 into range t1 and you are having a good day
Doctoralex wrote: I'm having trouble finding a purpose for the Nightbringer/ T. C'tan.
Do I send them up the board with a screen of Scarabs, acting as a distraction carnifex? Or do I hold him back so that he can go after enemy deep-strikers?
Or are they kind of worthless without the Deceiver throwing them forward?
After a bit more testing, the C'tan are basically swiss army knives. The Nightbringer gives you a solution to cc threats, while the transcendent ctan inflicts more mortal wounds.
It comes down to what gap you wanna patch in your list, and whether it has the flexibility to adjust, if you end up facing an opponent without deepstrike, or doesn't really care abt distraction fexes.
Guys they are T7 4++ characters with 4 2+ ws, S7/2+ to wound attacks with -4 D6 damage. Also have undenyable smites.
What had a similar statline? Flyrants, except they were targatable.
Necrons can now have 5 untargetable flyrants on the board
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
TOO LATE!
A. have you tried it?
B. Even if its amazing i highly doubt it will ever be prevalent. They are strong and are likely to do well in GW events but that list will struggle with ITC missions.
I think he's saying that it will either be terrible, in which case you've wasted your money, or it'll be nerfed right quick, in which case you've also wasted your money.
As someone who does have a vault, I'm hoping people don't spam them till they go the way of the flyrant and the tau commander.
But who am I kidding. This is why we can't have nice things.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Guys, you know what's quick way to waste money? Buy 3 vaults:
A) it's terrible and you wasted your money
B) it's amazing, immediatly gets nerfed and you waste your money( and piss off everyone else who used only 1).
Please... just don't...
TOO LATE!
A. have you tried it?
B. Even if its amazing i highly doubt it will ever be prevalent. They are strong and are likely to do well in GW events but that list will struggle with ITC missions.
I think he's saying that it will either be terrible, in which case you've wasted your money, or it'll be nerfed right quick, in which case you've also wasted your money.
As someone who does have a vault, I'm hoping people don't spam them till they go the way of the flyrant and the tau commander.
But who am I kidding. This is why we can't have nice things.
With three you dont have enough points to fill in the weakness the list has. It will never be what flyrants or commanders were. As for money, ive now paid $205 total for my three vaults. Not feeling like i wasted anything. Even if they get nerfed hard.
I'd love to try playing a list that has 2x Vaults 1x G.Pylon (Nihilakh Super Heavy Detach. Even if I don't get first turn I can still Grand.ill up the Vaults, pop their defense strat and hope for the best)... but to do so I'd have to win the lottery.
Guys they are T7 4++ characters with 4 2+ ws, S7/2+ to wound attacks with -4 D6 damage. Also have undenyable smites.
What had a similar statline? Flyrants, except they were targatable.
Necrons can now have 5 untargetable flyrants on the board
Except Flyrants are faster, have twice as many wounds, have better ranged weapons, provided massive buffs to their army, and were 40 points cheaper.
Exactly. A Tyranids list Relies on a Flyrant. If our C'tan lives or dies it doesn't really affect our lists as a whole. If a Tyrant or anything with Synapse dies than anything relying on those buffs becomes slightly worse. We use C'tan as MW machines while some Nid list really rely on there Tyrants.
Flyrants are good but because it can be focused fired due to having more than 10W it's a much easier target to kill than any of our C'tans. Also, you can only run 3 Tyrants now. Much easier to get them off the table.
torblind wrote: Are there synergies in the codex that play well with the T CTan?
Pretty much nothing in the book really interacts with any of the C'tan, other than the Deceiver redeploying them. The best "synergy" is Scarabs and Wraiths hiding the C'tan and letting one get off their powers and protecting them from scary shooting/charging. A Novokh Outrider with a DLord, 6 Wraiths, some Scarabs, and a C'tan is actually pretty scary to roam around midfield with.
torblind wrote: Are there synergies in the codex that play well with the T CTan?
Pretty much nothing in the book really interacts with any of the C'tan, other than the Deceiver redeploying them. The best "synergy" is Scarabs and Wraiths hiding the C'tan and letting one get off their powers and protecting them from scary shooting/charging. A Novokh Outrider with a DLord, 6 Wraiths, some Scarabs, and a C'tan is actually pretty scary to roam around midfield with.
I keep seeing the DLord in lists, but from a math point of view his damage output is fairly mediocre. He wants to go after elite infantry with multiple wounds, but those aren't to prevalent in this edition, are they? The destroyer buff is next to pointless.
torblind wrote: Are there synergies in the codex that play well with the T CTan?
Pretty much nothing in the book really interacts with any of the C'tan, other than the Deceiver redeploying them. The best "synergy" is Scarabs and Wraiths hiding the C'tan and letting one get off their powers and protecting them from scary shooting/charging. A Novokh Outrider with a DLord, 6 Wraiths, some Scarabs, and a C'tan is actually pretty scary to roam around midfield with.
I keep seeing the DLord in lists, but from a math point of view his damage output is fairly mediocre. He wants to go after elite infantry with multiple wounds, but those aren't to prevalent in this edition, are they? The destroyer buff is next to pointless.
You take him because he's relatively independent and just needs the Casket to do whatever.
Da W wrote: I want to try to use the monolith.
So what does it have?
I tried something similar last night. The most you can get out of the monolith is to Grand Illusion it forward, then bring 2 units in from the tomb world and 1 through the Dimensional Corridor strat. I went for more shooty units than hand to hand, and I used a Cryptek with the Veil to bring another unit up. This was the list:
Mephrit Battalion:
Spoiler:
Anrakyr (Grand Illusioned)
Veil Tek (VoD T1)
20x Warriors (VoD T1)
10x Immortals (Tomb World, deploy from mono T1)
10x Immortals (Tomb World, deploy from mono T1)
Deceiver (Grand Illusioned)
10x Lychguard (dimensional corridor to monolith T1)
5x Destroyers
Monolith (Grand Illusioned)
I was up against Girlyman, Aggressors, Centurions, some crazy forge world dreadnoughts and a few units of scouts.
I got first turn (kind of important lol) and found a gap in the scout screen to Grand Illusion the Monolith, Deceiver and Anrakyr 12" from his pile of guns gathered around Girlyman. On the first turn I brought both immortal units and the Lychguard out of the Monolith straight into his lines. The Cryptek Veiled up the Warrior blob into rapids and the Destroyers did a normal move to get in range of the Aggressors.
So for my first shooting phase everything was in half range for Mephrit goodness, the Lychguard were able to charge and Anrakyr and the Cryptek were in the middle of it all giving buffs to everyone.
My dice were bad but I still killed a lot of stuff and tied more up in assault. From there it was a brutal game where objectives were forgotten. We called it on turn 5 when I had the Monolith, Destroyers and Anrakyr left vs his 3 units of scouts.
It's a silly list that relies too much on getting 1st turn, but man it makes the Monolith seem cool. It appears right in front of the enemy and a whole army pours out of it, as it should be.
Blndmage wrote: The idea of a triple TC'tan list is growing on me.
A bit less than half the price of 3 Vaults and if you go for the cast two powers ability on all of them you are getting two thirds of the number of powers off. The powers are weaker than the Vault versions of course. The main problem would be that you only have access to 6 powers total which means you need to choose one of each.
What dynastic trait do you think would be the most suitable for an army based on the Empire of the Severed? Its a pity that wasn't mentioned in the 8th ed book. It was an interesting idea. Par for the course for GW, I suppose.
I was thinking Novohk, because the Empire appear to be aggressive expansionists and Novohk favors an aggressive play style. You'd think a Tomb world run by an AI would use quite a few canoptek units as well, and those tend to be melee orientated. Though I suppose Sautekh and Mephrite might work as well.
torblind wrote: Are there synergies in the codex that play well with the T CTan?
Only a few things:
-If Arankyr is your warlord, they can benefit from his re-roll failed charges.
-The Nightbringer can benefit from Solar Pulse (not really needed as his Gaze of Death already has AP-4)
-Most C'tan but especially the Nightbringer greatly benefit from Entropic Strike, ensuring almost a guaranteed kill on an enemy character.
-The Deceiver has some synergy with the Nightmare Shroud, resulting in a -2 leadership aura if he is near the bearer.
-The Nightbringer gains re-roll 1's for his Gaze of Death if he targets an enemy that has been shot by a Triach Stalker.
Can the C'Tans benefit from entropic strike? (don't have the text in front of me here)
Yeah, I don't think there's a restriction. So you can basically just flat out murder a dude with the Nightbringer. It doesn't even matter that it only effects a single attack, as his attacks deal D6 damage anyway.
Hey there phellow phaerons, my FLGS is starting up an escalation league this week and I could use some Dynasty code advice.
I'm planning on running this the first two weeks. Per the league rules, 500pts, modified Patrol detachment of 1 HQ, 1 Troop (with up to 1 additional and 1 transport per Troop choice), and up to 1 of each of Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Eternal War missions.
Spoiler:
HQ - 95pts
Chronotek - Warlord
Staff of Light
Lightning Field
Immortal Pride
Troops - 153pts
9 Gauss Immortals
Fast Attack - 250pts
5 Destroyers
Total 498pts
I'm leaning towards Nephrekh in case I need the extra movement for objectives/VP or if I want to hide my Destroyers, but as I'm really not sure what the other armies might be (I know there are a handful of Marine and Chaos players at this store, and at least 1 DE, Tyranid, and Ork player) I was curious what other people might pick.
I see Tomb Blades being called really good, but not many lists running them. Has anyone here played them since the Codex's release? In what type of lists do you play them?
I have a narrative campaign event coming up. We can take a NON Named character for our Warlord, we must keep him the entire campaign, and he can have 2 Warlord traits (cannot be 2 diff chapter/dynastys traits though).
I was thinking Immortal pride and Thrall of the silent king on an overlord with a Staff of Light, maybe take a rez orb as needed. Any suggestions on how to make an ultimate warlord?
Gojiratoho wrote: Hey there phellow phaerons, my FLGS is starting up an escalation league this week and I could use some Dynasty code advice.
I'm planning on running this the first two weeks. Per the league rules, 500pts, modified Patrol detachment of 1 HQ, 1 Troop (with up to 1 additional and 1 transport per Troop choice), and up to 1 of each of Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Eternal War missions.
Spoiler:
HQ - 95pts Chronotek - Warlord
Staff of Light
Lightning Field
Immortal Pride
Troops - 153pts 9 Gauss Immortals
Fast Attack - 250pts 5 Destroyers
Total 498pts
I'm leaning towards Nephrekh in case I need the extra movement for objectives/VP or if I want to hide my Destroyers, but as I'm really not sure what the other armies might be (I know there are a handful of Marine and Chaos players at this store, and at least 1 DE, Tyranid, and Ork player) I was curious what other people might pick.
If you're going to use that much gauss I would advise Sautekh or Mephrit.
The problem with nephrekh is that if you advance with gauss you won't be able to shoot it, which means you will lose firepower. You need to constantly apply pressure to your opponent to stop him from focusing down a squad. With necrons you'll want to constantly grind down the enemy to reduce incoming fire, which in theory would give RP a chance to proc.
Novokh is wasted on this list. The only thing that could probably benefit are destroyers, and even then you have better options. If you had scarabs then that would be a different matter as they really like those rerolls, but with just immortals and destroyers...nah.
Nihilakh might work as destroyers don't care if they can't use it to reroll ones; they have that ability build in already. It depends on the match up though, as if you have to close the distance against a gunline then you won't get to use it.
Mephrit is good because you'll want to be in 12" with gauss blasters anyway to make the most out of it and their relic + warlord trait tends to benefit Staff of Light users, which is what your HQ is equipped with. Destroyers become absolutely disgusting, dealing -4 mods at 12". That's enough to completely cancel a 3+ save.
Sautekh allows you to advance and shoot, which allows a constant pressure of high pen fire power, even from destroyers.
I would advise against taking immortal pride. You don't really have anything that needs to ignore morale and the anti-psy isn't as strong as you'd think. If you are really scared of psykers then go ahead, but prepare to fail the deny rolls.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If you're going to use that much gauss I would advise Sautekh or Mephrit.
I would advise against taking immortal pride. You don't really have anything that needs to ignore morale and the anti-psy isn't as strong as you'd think. If you are really scared of psykers then go ahead, but prepare to fail the deny rolls.
Mephrit was definitely my second choice, though I'm fairly sour on Sautekh. It hasn't done me any good the few games I've played with my friends. I'll keep it in consideration.
Hey, my dice are pretty hot at Deny the Witch rolls. Not so much for clutch last wound saves on characters, but they love shutting down pyskers
Though the more I'm looking at it, the more tempting Sautekh is simply for the Hyperlogical Strategist. In this league, the first 4 weeks of games are limited to a single Patrol detachement, so everyone is getting 3 CP (barring relics/characters granting them additional), and that should net me at least 1 extra CP as well as a free WL reroll.......hhhmmmmmmmm
Saw a guy run a 3 T Vault list with immortals and an overlord this weekend. He played Ad Mech. He destroyed them. It was really cheesey. This was the Kickoff weekend for our campaign, and the guy wanted to simulate the "great awakening" he said he wouldn't do it again as it was OP.
It's a rock/paper/scissors list imo. If your oppenent can deal with 3 Vaults, you lose, if they can't you win. The outcome is pretty much decided before the game starts.
I only own 3 tomb blades but the game I took them in they did great. My opponent was caught completly off guard by their speed and firepower output from just 3 so on the 2nd turn he dropped his farsight enclave in just to make sure they died (they did, but took the blunt of his force off of my main force). I would love to get at least 3 more, I think they need to be ran in groups of 6 for the perfect mix of output and cost and protection from moral.
Starting Crons for the 3rd time in the last 10+ years. What's a great way to start? Dont need anything super competitive, just a run down of what's worth getting first.
Azuza001 wrote: I only own 3 tomb blades but the game I took them in they did great. My opponent was caught completly off guard by their speed and firepower output from just 3 so on the 2nd turn he dropped his farsight enclave in just to make sure they died (they did, but took the blunt of his force off of my main force). I would love to get at least 3 more, I think they need to be ran in groups of 6 for the perfect mix of output and cost and protection from moral.
They seem really good, but I'm not sure I'd take them when you can take Destroyers + C'tan with Screens. Not enough points to fit everything imo, that's why I asked, because I'd wager a list with a different focus might be where they could shine, maybe something with more doomsday arks or something to avoid having to take the almost mandatory 6 destroyers to have enough anti-tank? I don't know right now.
nintura wrote: Starting Crons for the 3rd time in the last 10+ years. What's a great way to start? Dont need anything super competitive, just a run down of what's worth getting first.
If you can get the Necron half of the forgebane set, that's not a bad place to start
I got first turn (kind of important lol) and found a gap in the scout screen to Grand Illusion the Monolith, Deceiver and Anrakyr 12" from his pile of guns gathered around Girlyman. On the first turn I brought both immortal units and the Lychguard out of the Monolith straight into his lines. The Cryptek Veiled up the Warrior blob into rapids and the Destroyers did a normal move to get in range of the Aggressors.
This wont work with the deepstrike changes as you cant use the tomb world deployment on the first turn outside of your own deployment zone. It does sound like it was fun though.
This wont work with the deepstrike changes as you cant use the tomb world deployment on the first turn outside of your own deployment zone. It does sound like it was fun though.
The rules for it are a bit of a mess post-FAQ but I honestly can't see it working any other way. A Monolith/scythe at the front of your DZ can't deploy troops out the front turn 1? A Night/Mono that leaves your DZ turn one then gets destroyed in the opponents turn 1 can't use emergency invasion beams?
I think it's obvious it will work if they ever get round to FAQing it.
nintura wrote: Starting Crons for the 3rd time in the last 10+ years. What's a great way to start? Dont need anything super competitive, just a run down of what's worth getting first.
Both Forgebane and the new start collecting are great values and give you both troops and HQ's. Lychguard and Wraiths are both pretty good and fun (though Lychguard suffer from slow movement). Scarabs are great at board control, claiming objectives, and screening characters, etc. Overlords on the Command Barge are much better than the Annihilation Barge right now. I have no trouble recommending getting 2 Forgebane and 2 of the new start collecting.
Beyond what is in those boxes, you may want to look at DDA, Destroyers and the Deciever. The Doomsday Ark is our big gun and works really well with the Sautekh trait, it is one of the best way to deal with the opponents tanks and monsters. Destroyers are great, but hard to comeby new and expensive on the secondary market, but you will probably want to find some. Tombblades would be decent replacements until you find some. Deciever is really good for the pre-first turn redeploy tricks that you can do.
Yea its weird. On one hand pulling units from Tomb World deployment means they can’t leave your deployment zone turn 1.
But on the other hand, remember that GW employee on Greenman gaming who mentioned that units can move after being deployed from a Nightscythe/Monolith, much like a transport.
You cannot deploy a unit from reserves first turn outside your deployment zone. However, if they are already on the board, and you use a way to move them, you can do that. Orks big jump or whatever, Thousand Sons Crystal, etc.
Doctoralex wrote: Yea its weird. On one hand pulling units from Tomb World deployment means they can’t leave your deployment zone turn 1.
But on the other hand, remember that GW employee on Greenman gaming who mentioned that units can move after being deployed from a Nightscythe/Monolith, much like a transport.
So... which one is it? XD
It seems like they should be treated like units exiting transports as they come out at the start of the movement phase unlike any other reserve. I think GW didn't realise that reading the RAW has them treated like deep strikers.
"You cannot deploy a unit from reserves first turn outside your deployment zone. However, if they are already on the board, and you use a way to move them, you can do that. Orks big jump or whatever, Thousand Sons Crystal, etc."
Even that stuff isn't allowed if you just look at the rulebook and FAQ.
It can be both -- units are allowed to move after deploying from a Night Scythe or Monolith, but because they are arriving from reserves, on T1 they are only allowed to deploy into your DZ.
They have been very consistent in making the Night Scythe and Monolith worse with every codex so it is not a surprise that the beta rules make the Emergency stratagem unusable.
If they decide to FAQ it such that it is considered deploying from a transport in every sense, it would be very welcome, but that is not the case at the moment, and discussions in either direction ought to stay in YMDC.
--
On the subject of tactics, does Talent for Annihilation give much benefit to Destroyers? Losing access to T1 deep strikes, I've been looking for another Dynastic code. But if it doesn't make an appreciable difference, I think it would be better to leave them in my main detachment, whatever it may be, and save on points.
nintura wrote: You cannot deploy a unit from reserves first turn outside your deployment zone. However, if they are already on the board, and you use a way to move them, you can do that. Orks big jump or whatever, Thousand Sons Crystal, etc.
This is already clear. What's not clear is the issues with monoliths and night scythes using their transport abilities turn one outside your own deployment zone. I think that ultimately it will be allowed since you're paying a premium to do it and your opponent can target the monolith or night scythe to prevent it from happening.
The problem with deepstrike reserves previously was that there was no way to OFFENSIVELY stop it and it's too easy to mitigate losses by only leaving chaff units on the board.
I think you'll see monoliths and night scythes become big targets. They're going to get Focus fired once people realize the amount of Mobility they provide. I also think this is why the monolith is not going to get a point cost reduction
Da W wrote: I want to try to use the monolith.
So what does it have?
I tried something similar last night. The most you can get out of the monolith is to Grand Illusion it forward, then bring 2 units in from the tomb world and 1 through the Dimensional Corridor strat. I went for more shooty units than hand to hand, and I used a Cryptek with the Veil to bring another unit up. This was the list:
Mephrit Battalion:
Spoiler:
Anrakyr (Grand Illusioned)
Veil Tek (VoD T1)
20x Warriors (VoD T1)
10x Immortals (Tomb World, deploy from mono T1)
10x Immortals (Tomb World, deploy from mono T1)
Deceiver (Grand Illusioned)
10x Lychguard (dimensional corridor to monolith T1)
5x Destroyers
Monolith (Grand Illusioned)
I was up against Girlyman, Aggressors, Centurions, some crazy forge world dreadnoughts and a few units of scouts.
I got first turn (kind of important lol) and found a gap in the scout screen to Grand Illusion the Monolith, Deceiver and Anrakyr 12" from his pile of guns gathered around Girlyman. On the first turn I brought both immortal units and the Lychguard out of the Monolith straight into his lines. The Cryptek Veiled up the Warrior blob into rapids and the Destroyers did a normal move to get in range of the Aggressors.
So for my first shooting phase everything was in half range for Mephrit goodness, the Lychguard were able to charge and Anrakyr and the Cryptek were in the middle of it all giving buffs to everyone.
My dice were bad but I still killed a lot of stuff and tied more up in assault. From there it was a brutal game where objectives were forgotten. We called it on turn 5 when I had the Monolith, Destroyers and Anrakyr left vs his 3 units of scouts.
It's a silly list that relies too much on getting 1st turn, but man it makes the Monolith seem cool. It appears right in front of the enemy and a whole army pours out of it, as it should be.
Deceiver on monolith works.
Dimensional corridor on lychguard already on the table works.
Beaming 2 units from tomb world does not.
Vod cryptek that bring a unit works.
Still Anrakyr + Lychguard charging on T1 is good enough. Total 1071pts for an alpha charge! I have a preference for flayed ones though. Combined -2 morale with the Deceiver. Some extra easy kills. Novokh to reroll to hit and fight a 2nd time.
I would VoD 20 mephrit warriors to support. No i'm not even sure i would VoD anything. Have the other half of your army in front.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
A quick rules question, Pharons Will, letting an overlord give MWBD one more time, happens after he has given MWBT to the first unit, in the beginning of the turn. Not being in the movement phase yet, does that mean that stratagem can be cast again, for another overlord?
Nihilakh Stratagem- 2CP:If unit is within 3” of objective or didn’t move, increase attacks and saving throw by 1. This is done at the end of your turn. So turn 1 place near objective or at the front of your deployment zone, ideally in cover, don’t move them and pop this stratagem for set up for next turn.
Can also combo with Disruption fields -1CP +1 str on infantry.
Take Lychguard, park near objective, (or round 2 of combat) with sword and board. Makes them have 3 attacks; 2+ 3++ save. Place Anarakyr near them for another +1 attack. Lord nearby for reroll wounds of 1. For a 10 man squad that’s 40 attacks hitting on 3’s, S6, AP -3; Disruption fields could be nice on T3 to wound on 2+.
Lychguard with Warcythe and Disruption Field become S8, AP-4; that’s wound T7 on 3’s good for vehicles and MC w/o invuls.
On Flayed ones that is a 3+ Save; 4 attacks, 5 if Anarkyr is near them, S4, AP 0 rerolling fail wound rolls. Fantastic for horde clearing. That is 100 attacks, sure as hell to clear out any hordes. Alternatively, take Novokh stratagem to fight again 3 Cp; with Anarkayr and an Overlord nearby with NOvokh dynasty; reroll wounds, 6’s generate extra attacks; that’s 4 attacks, 80 total, attacks, with the stratagem that’s 80+80+26.66(extra); space them out and multi-charge multiple screening units. Don’t forget to use Disruption Fields for increased strength to wound T4 on 3+.
On Nihilakh Wraiths that is 4 attacks, hitting on 3’s, S6, AP -2, 2 Dmg; 4+2++ save. You can use Adaptive Subroutines Stratagem after advancing to charge again if range might be an issue.
*Remember you can always throw this on a unit that is locked in combat and was charged to get a buff next turn. Especially if something charge a blob of Flayed ones, warriors. Take the burnt of the charge, use RP to gain models back and set up your increased save and attacks for the following rounds.
Nasty Character Killer Catacomb Command Barge--Nihilik, Timesplitter Cloak Artifact for 5+++, Honorable Combatant WLT for D3 atks vs characters; Void blade grants 3+1+D3 attacks; use Nihilik stratagem get another attack (now min 6-8); 4+++ FnP save. Most WL characters have an invul so I am not to concerned about the lower AP weapon; though there are still plenty of juicy target. He has quantum shielding for high damage weapons, and FnP for everything and Mortal wounds. You can always use Quantum Deflection Stratagem in a pinch. Not to mention, bring a Canoptek Spyder or Cryptek Cloak or both for D3 wounds. This guy just wont die.
Or take Novokh and the Novokh scythe for another D3 Attacks (3+D3+D3) and can always fight again. Rerolling failed hit rolls. Gaining slightly more attacks but losing the invul save.
Just some good combo’s I came across. Anyone see any others with units/stragems/relics?
Nihilakh Stratagem- 2CP:If unit is within 3” of objective or didn’t move, increase attacks and saving throw by 1. This is done at the end of your turn. So turn 1 place near objective or at the front of your deployment zone, ideally in cover, don’t move them and pop this stratagem for set up for next turn.
Can also combo with Disruption fields -1CP +1 str on infantry.
Take Lychguard, park near objective, (or round 2 of combat) with sword and board. Makes them have 3 attacks; 2+ 3++ save. Place Anarakyr near them for another +1 attack. Lord nearby for reroll wounds of 1. For a 10 man squad that’s 40 attacks hitting on 3’s, S6, AP -3; Disruption fields could be nice on T3 to wound on 2+.
Lychguard with Warcythe and Disruption Field become S8, AP-4; that’s wound T7 on 2’s good for vehicles and MC w/o invuls.
On Flayed ones that is a 3+ Save; 4 attacks, 5 if Anarkyr is near them, S4, AP 0 rerolling fail wound rolls. Fantastic for horde clearing. That is 100 attacks, sure as hell to clear out any hordes. Alternatively, take Novokh stratagem to fight again 3 Cp; with Anarkayr and an Overlord nearby with NOvokh dynasty; reroll wounds, 6’s generate extra attacks; that’s 4 attacks, 80 total, attacks, with the stratagem that’s 80+80+26.66(extra); space them out and multi-charge multiple screening units. Don’t forget to use Disruption Fields for increased strength to wound T4 on 3+.
On Nihilakh Wraiths that is 4 attacks, hitting on 3’s, S6, AP -2, 2 Dmg; 4+2++ save. You can use Adaptive Subroutines Stratagem after advancing to charge again if range might be an issue.
*Remember you can always throw this on a unit that is locked in combat and was charged to get a buff next turn. Especially if something charge a blob of Flayed ones, warriors. Take the burnt of the charge, use RP to gain models back and set up your increased save and attacks for the following rounds.
Nasty Character Killer Catacomb Command Barge--Nihilik, Timesplitter Cloak Artifact for 5+++, Honorable Combatant WLT for D3 atks vs characters; Void blade grants 3+1+D3 attacks; use Nihilik stratagem get another attack (now min 6-8); 4+++ FnP save. Most WL characters have an invul so I am not to concerned about the lower AP weapon; though there are still plenty of juicy target. He has quantum shielding for high damage weapons, and FnP for everything and Mortal wounds. You can always use Quantum Deflection Stratagem in a pinch. Not to mention, bring a Canoptek Spyder or Cryptek Cloak or both for D3 wounds. This guy just wont die.
Or take Novokh and the Novokh scythe for another D3 Attacks (3+D3+D3) and can always fight again. Rerolling failed hit rolls. Gaining slightly more attacks but losing the invul save.
Just some good combo’s I came across. Anyone see any others with units/stragems/relics?
A lot of these combos have already been discussed earlier in the thread.
Most of us agreed that the Nihilakh Stratagem is best used on Wraiths, Tesseract Vault and Flayed Ones due to their movement and how they can get near an objective.
It is almost better to go 2nd if your planning to use the Stratagem the way you described. This is because you will see what cards your opponent has drawn and if there is an objective they need but is closer to you you can then move your units towards that objective (or, DS them via VoD or units own rules) pop the Stratagem and make his Scrub units try take the objective from you. If using Wraiths in the manner try keep one Wraiths within 3" and have the others surround the objective with a 4" radius so that your opponent can't get onto the objective unless the Wraiths have been delt with.
Azuza001 wrote: I only own 3 tomb blades but the game I took them in they did great. My opponent was caught completly off guard by their speed and firepower output from just 3 so on the 2nd turn he dropped his farsight enclave in just to make sure they died (they did, but took the blunt of his force off of my main force). I would love to get at least 3 more, I think they need to be ran in groups of 6 for the perfect mix of output and cost and protection from moral.
They seem really good, but I'm not sure I'd take them when you can take Destroyers + C'tan with Screens. Not enough points to fit everything imo, that's why I asked, because I'd wager a list with a different focus might be where they could shine, maybe something with more doomsday arks or something to avoid having to take the almost mandatory 6 destroyers to have enough anti-tank? I don't know right now.
Destroyers are good, but over use will lead to people always taking a counter to them, I mix it up between destroyers and tomb blades as Tomb blades get a 5++ on the move and a -1 to be hit for 10pts cheaper. Granted they're more kitted out for infantry killing, but I've seen tomb blades survive salvoes that would shred destroyers.
Fair enough you will have to pay for additional anti tank though so it's not exactly a fair trade and I admit destroyers are the best unit we have access to
Nasty Character Killer Catacomb Command Barge--Nihilik, Timesplitter Cloak Artifact for 5+++, Honorable Combatant WLT for D3 atks vs characters; Void blade grants 3+1+D3 attacks; use Nihilik stratagem get another attack (now min 6-8); 4+++ FnP save. Most WL characters have an invul so I am not to concerned about the lower AP weapon; though there are still plenty of juicy target. He has quantum shielding for high damage weapons, and FnP for everything and Mortal wounds. You can always use Quantum Deflection Stratagem in a pinch. Not to mention, bring a Canoptek Spyder or Cryptek Cloak or both for D3 wounds. This guy just wont die.
Or take Novokh and the Novokh scythe for another D3 Attacks (3+D3+D3) and can always fight again. Rerolling failed hit rolls. Gaining slightly more attacks but losing the invul save.
Just some good combo’s I came across. Anyone see any others with units/stragems/relics?
I'm pretty sure that +1 to save rolls won't affect your 5+++ FnP save.
sieGermans wrote: I don’t have my rulebook handy (traveling), but does Entropic Strike have a Dynasty restriction? (Considering the Nightbringer edge case use)
Nope. Its not a dynasty specific stratagem. The only requirement is that the unit must have the Necron and a character keywords. C'tan have both. Entropic strike is really good on the nightbringer. It only affects a single attack, so you'll naturally want to give it to something that can deal a lot of damage with a single hit. Like a void reaper or a nightbringer.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
I assume this is a joke, right? You want a 20W, 4++, living metal model that can both deep strike and transport units (on top of the 5 weapons) for <300 points? I mean, hell, the new Armigers are 200+ as it is.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
I assume this is a joke, right? You want a 20W, 4++, living metal model that can both deep strike and transport units (on top of the 5 weapons) for <300 points? I mean, hell, the new Armigers are 200+ as it is.
Yeah, all that is a little excessive for <300 points. It really just needs a 2+ save. Maybe a 5+ invul.
Looking at running a hammer anvil strategy at 2k points. Basically I have a flying Mephrit wing that punches up the flank and pushes a refused flank and a solid core in the rough center or corner of Nihilakh with the warlord.
Mephrit Outrider
CCB- Warscythe, Rez orb, Lightning field
Cryptek- cloak
Destroyers x3
Tomb Blades x6
Wraiths x 6
Death Marks x10
Nihilakh
Overlord warscythe, rez orb, Time Splinter, Enduring Will
Cryptek with 5++ save thing
Immortals x 10 (both immortals I might split into 5 man units)
Immortals x 10
Warriors x 14
Heavy Destroyers x3 or a Stalker havent decided wihich. Probably stalker since Destroyers are highly likely to be nerfed in the future.
Most likely castling in a corner with the overlord fairly center. Might swap out the 5++ thing on cryptek with cloak for speed.
A quick rules question, Pharons Will, letting an overlord give MWBD one more time, happens after he has given MWBT to the first unit, in the beginning of the turn. Not being in the movement phase yet, does that mean that stratagem can be cast again, for another overlord?
First, I’ll need to say that I don’t completely understand what you mean. MWBD is not a psychic power, and so there is no ‘cast’ limit of one per turn. It’s not an AoS command ability either. If you have three overlords, you get to boost three units a turn.
The restriction is on targeting the same unit, which you can’t under any circumstances.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
I assume this is a joke, right? You want a 20W, 4++, living metal model that can both deep strike and transport units (on top of the 5 weapons) for <300 points? I mean, hell, the new Armigers are 200+ as it is.
Feel free to ask us AdMech users how we feel about the Armigers. Please. Feel free. Ask even here if you want.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
I assume this is a joke, right? You want a 20W, 4++, living metal model that can both deep strike and transport units (on top of the 5 weapons) for <300 points? I mean, hell, the new Armigers are 200+ as it is.
Feel free to ask us AdMech users how we feel about the Armigers. Please. Feel free. Ask even here if you want.
Ha! My buddy is building Ad Mech. He is not pleased by the Armigers. They need to be sub 200 fully loaded. Fingers crossed they get cheaper in the knight book. I will say crons just think they are cute. Either tie em up with scarabs or nuke em from range.
Looking at running a hammer anvil strategy at 2k points. Basically I have a flying Mephrit wing that punches up the flank and pushes a refused flank and a solid core in the rough center or corner of Nihilakh with the warlord.
Mephrit Outrider
CCB- Warscythe, Rez orb, Lightning field
Cryptek- cloak
Destroyers x3
Tomb Blades x6
Wraiths x 6
Death Marks x10
Nihilakh
Overlord warscythe, rez orb, Time Splinter, Enduring Will
Cryptek with 5++ save thing
Immortals x 10 (both immortals I might split into 5 man units)
Immortals x 10
Warriors x 14
Heavy Destroyers x3 or a Stalker havent decided wihich. Probably stalker since Destroyers are highly likely to be nerfed in the future.
Most likely castling in a corner with the overlord fairly center. Might swap out the 5++ thing on cryptek with cloak for speed.
Why are you taking Wraiths in a Mephrit Outrider? If it for CC I wouldn't bother. Tomb Blades with Shield Veins are tanky enough to withstand an assault from basic shooting units then retaliate next turn by falling back and shooting with (what I assume) their Gauss Blasters. Anything CC that could pose a threat to them can usually be dealt with safely by the Destroyers or just kite around them until they aren't a problem anymore.
Imho, I would try and switch the Mephrit Outrider to a Battalion and the Nihilakh Battalion to a Spearhead. Run the usual Cloaktek, 2 DDAs, Spyder combo as your AT and then use the remaining points on the Mephrit Battalion to deal with everything else. Mephrit is usually going to be better if you are using your troops to do things other than just sit on objectives.
Maxing out the Destroyers to 6 is good idea for a 2000 point game. If you are willing to eat 2 CP, I would also put the Destroyers in an Nephrekh Aux Detachment so you can DS them and prevent them from getting wiped off the board Turn 1 and give them range to pretty much any unit they need to kill.
I also believe Res Orbs have been universally accepted as a poor investment unless you are following Tomb Blades or Destroyers around with a Cryptek. I would nix the 2 Res Orbs, downgrade the Overlord's weapons, and buy yourself 2x 3 Scarabs. They will help a lot with their ability to screen and great for capturing points. If you do that, you might want to turn that Nephrekh Destroyer Aux into an Outrider, as you would only need an HQ after that lol. A Cryptek is good as the Nephrekh Code allows him to keep up with the Destroyers and provide RP buffs. Add a Chorometron for added Destroyer tankiness and/or a VoD for added hilarity.
That's just my two cents, but also feel free to correct me if I have gotten anything wrong here lol
sieGermans wrote: I don’t have my rulebook handy (traveling), but does Entropic Strike have a Dynasty restriction? (Considering the Nightbringer edge case use)
Nope. Its not a dynasty specific stratagem. The only requirement is that the unit must have the Necron and a character keywords. C'tan have both.
Entropic strike is really good on the nightbringer. It only affects a single attack, so you'll naturally want to give it to something that can deal a lot of damage with a single hit. Like a void reaper or a nightbringer.
According to my FLGS the "Single Attack" clause is all attacks made for one Fight Phase. It's only there to prevent multiple fight phase shenanigans
Jackers wrote: I wish I played at that FLGS, lol. There is no way Entropic Strike is meant to work that way.
How else do you decide what the "First Attack" is? The stratagem itself has to be used at the start of the fight phase and so do you arbitrarily choose one of the dice? Or is it the first attack to go through?
Not running it as the first round of attacks makes it really finnicky, and not the kind of 'ergonomic' GW usually goes for
Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Jackers wrote: I like the mobility the Monolith provides, but it just costs so many points, along with being a very boring model (far too many plain, flat surfaces).
I LOVE the model! It's so iconic. I agree though, the points cost is way too high. If they bumped the big gun to 36 inch range, gave it a 4+ invuln, d3 wounds recovered from living metal, and dropped it to around 280-300 points it would be worth looking at and it would really help the army.
My group is planning to test it out with those adjustments just for fun
I assume this is a joke, right? You want a 20W, 4++, living metal model that can both deep strike and transport units (on top of the 5 weapons) for <300 points? I mean, hell, the new Armigers are 200+ as it is.
1. No reason to be arrogant or condescending because you disagree
2. Bobby g is way way better than a monolith and is only 19 pts more
3. Monolith only moves 6 inches
4. Have you ever tried to deepstrike a monolith on a board with proper terrain?
5. 20 wounds goes fast with a few well placed Las cannon shots
6. I said my group will be trying it out with those features in various combos...who knows what we'll decide
7. The monolith is RIDICULOUSLY overpriced as it currently stands. It does NOTHING well, including survive, except block line of sight
punisher357 wrote:
1. No reason to be arrogant or condescending because you disagree
2. Bobby g is way way better than a monolith and is only 19 pts more
3. Monolith only moves 6 inches
4. Have you ever tried to deepstrike a monolith on a board with proper terrain?
5. 20 wounds goes fast with a few well placed Las cannon shots
6. I said my group will be trying it out with those features in various combos...who knows what we'll decide
7. The monolith is RIDICULOUSLY overpriced as it currently stands. It does NOTHING well, including survive, except block line of sight
Da W wrote:I want to try to use the monolith.
So what does it have?
1- Blocks LOS 2- Draw fire from big guns, can't really hide
3- Deepstrike for free
4- Make deepstrike other units. Like many at once.
5- Best if not the only way to teleport CC troops in manageable charge distance.
6- Shoots like a DDA that moves and scores a 6 on its D6 shots
7- Mostly imprevious to S3-S4 swarms of troops. Otherwise not an easy target to bring down, need focused fire. But it can be shot down in one turn preventing disembarking units.
8- Too expensive if you only look at the stats.
9- Work with Sautekh, Mephrit, Nikiliah
10- Proven alpha striker with the deceiver and teleportation corridor stratagem.
Spoiler:
Seems to me in maps that use few LOS blocking scenery, monolith can help protect your units while they advance.
You have to shoot down any direct treats like macro and heavy weapons.
Having a cloacktek and a spyder is not a bad idea.
You may want to try a novokh close combat army with those. Droping lychguards, flayed ones, warriors, immortals here and there.
Monolith are not needed for wraiths, destroyers, pretorians, are a substitute to DDA, barges and stalker.
Is 2 monolith too much? What if you grand illusion 2 monoliths with the deceiver? Or you may just throw a monolith as a giant bait while the rest of your army manoeuvre.
So do you think there's something manageable there?
I have a suggestion
Combat Bataillon +5CP Novokh
Unit Qty Unit Type COST
1 1 Anrakyr the Traveler HQ 167
1 1 Cryptek +cloak HQ 85
3 10 Immortals T 510
1 1 C'Tan Deceiver E 225
1 10 Flayed Ones E 170
1 10 Flayed Ones E 170
1 10 Lychguard E 300
1 1 Monolith Hv 381
2008
It's ridiculously overcosted for what it does....has a lot of wounds, but its save is easily bypassed and it doesn't have quantum shielding, it's slow, living metal on it does nothing, and it's weapons are all 24 inch range.
It's nearly 1/5 of your army as far as points go.....just not worth it. It doesn't really do anything well
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
It's ridiculously overcosted for what it does....has a lot of wounds, but its save is easily bypassed and it doesn't have quantum shielding, it's slow, living metal on it does nothing, and it's weapons are all 24 inch range.
It's nearly 1/5 of your army as far as points go.....just not worth it. It doesn't really do anything well
And aren't land raiders unused because they cost too much? The chaos tactics thread certainly thinks so...
Giving the monolith the necron signature vehicle rule: quantum shielding, would go a long way. And then making it's living metal d3 would probably be enough. Assuming an faq let's us move units disembarking like a transport...
Maelstrom808 wrote: Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Oh gosh. That makes the Novokh Stratagem so much worse than I thought. It says “the unit may make a second attack this round”. I’ve been giving them their whole attack profile again! Whoops!
A quick rules question, Pharons Will, letting an overlord give MWBD one more time, happens after he has given MWBT to the first unit, in the beginning of the turn. Not being in the movement phase yet, does that mean that stratagem can be cast again, for another overlord?
First, I’ll need to say that I don’t completely understand what you mean. MWBD is not a psychic power, and so there is no ‘cast’ limit of one per turn. It’s not an AoS command ability either. If you have three overlords, you get to boost three units a turn.
The restriction is on targeting the same unit, which you can’t under any circumstances.
See how I say 'stratagem cast again'? Stratagems are certainly limited, once per phase according to rules.
Maelstrom808 wrote: Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Oh gosh. That makes the Novokh Stratagem so much worse than I thought. It says “the unit may make a second attack this round”. I’ve been giving them their whole attack profile again! Whoops!
I think the Novokh strat does work that way. it uses the phrase 'fights again', rather than 'makes another attack'. 'Fights again' means that they do a full fight phase again.
And aren't land raiders unused because they cost too much? The chaos tactics thread certainly thinks so...
Giving the monolith the necron signature vehicle rule: quantum shielding, would go a long way. And then making it's living metal d3 would probably be enough. Assuming an faq let's us move units disembarking like a transport...
It's because they're blech at transporting and shooting. Cut off 50 points and I might take another look. Until then, nada.
Maelstrom808 wrote: Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Oh gosh. That makes the Novokh Stratagem so much worse than I thought. It says “the unit may make a second attack this round”. I’ve been giving them their whole attack profile again! Whoops!
I think the Novokh strat does work that way. it uses the phrase 'fights again', rather than 'makes another attack'. 'Fights again' means that they do a full fight phase again.
Are you talking about differnt stratagems?
one lets you ignore invul save for one attack roll.
another lets you activate a unit to fight again in the fight phase.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ... Which is pretty awesome btw, charge 20 flayed ones into 60 orks, have them chop through 30 of them, play the stratagem and have them chop through the 30 remaining.
How do you guys see Nihilakh? Is it any good as a dinasty? Doomsday Arks with the bonus could be nasty, but I'm not sure if I'd go for a full list of this dinasty.
amnz wrote: How do you guys see Nihilakh? Is it any good as a dinasty? Doomsday Arks with the bonus could be nasty, but I'm not sure if I'd go for a full list of this dinasty.
I think its ok, ill probably play it in friendly games. it has the nice +1 Sv +1 A stratagem too, ie you could catapult up 6 wratihs, have them sit there untouchable with 4A and 2++ , all the while pumping DDark shells at reroll 1s to hit.
I'm currently debating in YMDC if that stratagem can be cast multiple times since its at the end of turn, ie not in any phase, and thus shouldnt have the "once per phase" limitation.
Also the 5+++ relic with reroll-a-die is useful.
The trait, letting your warlord fight first, is ok against if cc oriented lists I suppose, daemons, nids, deathguard, perhaps DE. but CC specialist characters probably slay out characters easily anyway.
A quick rules question, Pharons Will, letting an overlord give MWBD one more time, happens after he has given MWBT to the first unit, in the beginning of the turn. Not being in the movement phase yet, does that mean that stratagem can be cast again, for another overlord?
First, I’ll need to say that I don’t completely understand what you mean. MWBD is not a psychic power, and so there is no ‘cast’ limit of one per turn. It’s not an AoS command ability either. If you have three overlords, you get to boost three units a turn.
The restriction is on targeting the same unit, which you can’t under any circumstances.
See how I say 'stratagem cast again'? Stratagems are certainly limited, once per phase according to rules.
Thanks for the clarification. If you could somehow use MWBD in multiple phases, then you would be able to use Pharon’s Will twice in a turn.
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
Ugh, that looks... head scratchingly awkward.
Don't suppose there's any video of that player's games. I'd want to see what he was doing that managed to make that work.
I guess the 3 units of 3 destroyers moved with the DLord so that they got to reroll 1s to hit and wound rather than relying on the strat. But yeah that list just looks bad.
Doctoralex wrote: Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
I've actually been reasonably happy with Anni barges when I've used them in a Sautek detachment. The Gauss Cannon is a really good gun when it can hit on 3's and the Tesla Destructor can put out a lot of shots when Methodical Destruction is in play. They're also fast and quite tough. It does seem like their points would always be better split between Destroyers and Tesla Tomb Blades though.
That list is probably not as bad as I first thought but it does seem to lack anti-horde and a way to punch through units with good invul saves.
Edit: yeah 1 Destroyer and 3 Tesla Tomb Blades with shields are 155 so about the same cost as an anni barge but better IMO. Not that much better though hmm...
I personally think Anni barges are great. I run them full Tesla and shoot infantry and light vehicles off the table like its nothing. They even fare reasonably well vs Tougher units. But it seems to me that anything that isn't low/med cost AND kills something per turn is rated as trash these days.
3x Tesla Tomb Blades w/ Shields 3x Tesla Tomb Blades w/ Shields
Anni Barge + GC Anni Barge + GC Anni Barge + GC
DDA DDA
Doesn't seem terrible. Lots of small fast units for objectives and screening. A boat load of Tesla with the option to Methodically destroy. 9 Gauss Cannons and 2 DDAs for the tough stuff.
Edit: Added the Abyssal staff to trigger Methodical Destruction.
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
How the gak...
Anyone know what other lists were in the tournament? This looks like a list that would be solid for a casual sort of play, but not for tournament play.
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
How the gak...
Anyone know what other lists were in the tournament? This looks like a list that would be solid for a casual sort of play, but not for tournament play.
Mmm I dunno, it's farily well rounded imo. Sure you don't have a big unit of Destroyers for Extermination Protocols, but they're fairly killy in their own right and have a DLord for babysitting/rerolling wounds. DDark can put down hurt as well. A few things that are suboptimal but it's a pretty interesting MSU list that could play well if you have the experience with it.
A quick rules question, Pharons Will, letting an overlord give MWBD one more time, happens after he has given MWBT to the first unit, in the beginning of the turn. Not being in the movement phase yet, does that mean that stratagem can be cast again, for another overlord?
First, I’ll need to say that I don’t completely understand what you mean. MWBD is not a psychic power, and so there is no ‘cast’ limit of one per turn. It’s not an AoS command ability either. If you have three overlords, you get to boost three units a turn.
The restriction is on targeting the same unit, which you can’t under any circumstances.
See how I say 'stratagem cast again'? Stratagems are certainly limited, once per phase according to rules.
Thanks for the clarification. If you could somehow use MWBD in multiple phases, then you would be able to use Pharon’s Will twice in a turn.
I agree, so far so good, question is, is "beginning of turn" in a phase? (ie movement phase), if not, the once-a-phase limitation wouldnt be in effect. Much like the deepstrike stratagem which you can do many times since its not in a phase yet.
Maelstrom808 wrote: Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Oh gosh. That makes the Novokh Stratagem so much worse than I thought. It says “the unit may make a second attack this round”. I’ve been giving them their whole attack profile again! Whoops!
As has been pointed out, that is not what Blood Rites says.
Maelstrom808 wrote: Keep in mind the default is to roll and resolve shots and attacks one at a time. Rolling them all at once or batch rolling is simply a time saving mechanism for when all the attacks are the same. In the case of entropic strike, you'd roll the first attack separately, then roll the rest. Pretty simple.
Now should entropic strike affect all attacks? Yeah, just one is a little weak, but that's what GW wanted *shrug*.
Oh gosh. That makes the Novokh Stratagem so much worse than I thought. It says “the unit may make a second attack this round”. I’ve been giving them their whole attack profile again! Whoops!
As has been pointed out, that is not what Blood Rites says.
Having returned home and check3 the Codex, I see this is correct. Thank you.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.
Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.
Nasty Character Killer Catacomb Command Barge--Nihilik, Timesplitter Cloak Artifact for 5+++, Honorable Combatant WLT for D3 atks vs characters; Void blade grants 3+1+D3 attacks; use Nihilik stratagem get another attack (now min 6-8); 4+++ FnP save. Most WL characters have an invul so I am not to concerned about the lower AP weapon; though there are still plenty of juicy target. He has quantum shielding for high damage weapons, and FnP for everything and Mortal wounds. You can always use Quantum Deflection Stratagem in a pinch. Not to mention, bring a Canoptek Spyder or Cryptek Cloak or both for D3 wounds. This guy just wont die.
Or take Novokh and the Novokh scythe for another D3 Attacks (3+D3+D3) and can always fight again. Rerolling failed hit rolls. Gaining slightly more attacks but losing the invul save.
Just some good combo’s I came across. Anyone see any others with units/stragems/relics?
I'm pretty sure that +1 to save rolls won't affect your 5+++ FnP save.
Why wouldn't it? It says on a 5+ ignore wounds. This would be taken after armor/invul saves.
And aren't land raiders unused because they cost too much? The chaos tactics thread certainly thinks so...
Giving the monolith the necron signature vehicle rule: quantum shielding, would go a long way. And then making it's living metal d3 would probably be enough. Assuming an faq let's us move units disembarking like a transport...
Agreed give it quantum shielding.
You can always hide a Cryptek with Cloak and a Spyder behind it out of LoS to heal 2D3 each round. You could also drop/move it on an objective and essentially Body block anyone from getting within 3" of the objective. I think the model is big enough to do this. Enemy tries to move troops in for objective secured, but it wont matter because they cant reach it.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.
Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.
Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.
The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.
Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good. The AP - 1 is the only way to use them IMO with G cannons to add some more punch. Very fast, very durable with QS.
Brymm wrote: Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.
You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??
We tend to use a lot of terrain at my FLGS, so it's sometimes tough to get LOS unless you're in close. You'd be surprised how often I end up with long-range units within charge range.
Brymm wrote: Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.
You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??
Why not? I am not a fan of the Barges and think they are overcosted. But they are fast, have assault weapons and fly. Why should you not get them close to their targets? Only reason could be, that your opponent shoots them down to fast. This means shoot at T6, 8 Wounds (not becoming weaker after damage) and quantum shields. Sure...they will go down against some shooting. But then the opponent does not shoot on your DDAs or Destroyers....
Before the new anti-spam rule was in place I really disliked tha Barges because of the other (much better) options. But now I think they are just a bit too expensive and actually medicore with Mephrit.
Brymm wrote: Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.
You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??
Try to have them flanking some other advancing units of yours, they're fast and fly, they should be able to get within 12" aboit the same rate your gauss blades do.
Have them move up next to Wraiths and help them clear a flank for example, they won't see much damage while the Wraiths soak it up
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit as for blades, how does its price compare?
It's slower, but the tesla destructors match two tesla blades and then some, the gauss cannon match about two gauss blades outside RF at least. It has more wounds, higher toughness, and has the same damaged output even when three of the four blades have been killed
S7 is a bit unfortunate, it only makes a difference for T5 and up, and those targets start to have good armor saves
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
Ugh, that looks... head scratchingly awkward.
Don't suppose there's any video of that player's games. I'd want to see what he was doing that managed to make that work.
Hey guys, that is me.
A couple things to note
1) The tournament was only like 10ish players.
2) I don't play tournaments with unpainted models.
3) I didn't own any tomb blades prior to the event. (Obviously they are vastly undercosted right now)
4) All of my Necrons are painted one way, so multiple dynasties feels gamey.
The annihilation barges are clearly suboptimal and could probably be 6 more destroyers, but I didn't have that many painted.
Even if I did I'm not sure I would run that many. If you don't care about AP the barge actually has more shots.
I liked having the Heavy gauss cannons which is why I went with 3 smaller units rather than 2 larger ones.
The smaller units helped with the ITC secondary mission objectives and getting targeted with anti tank weapons.
I played
1) Monster Nids: The Nightbringer just cut a swath through this list.
2) Death Guard/Nurgle: Three Plaguebursts, 4 Bloat Drones, Epidemius and some Nurglings camping objectives.
3) Death Guard Pox Zombie with Chaos Fire Raptor and 3 Plague bursts: This was the day before the Errata on reinforcement points.
Won initiative and killed the 40 man cultist squad which limitied his zombie factory pretty significantly, which let me just shoot him off the table.
The list was definitely not perfect, but with only a couple weeks after the codex release it was the best TAC list I could muster.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.
Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.
Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.
The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.
Why would you want your DDA in short range, where it can't nuke stuff or get charged?
EnTyme wrote: The DDA has a range of 72". Half range is capable of hitting most of a standard table (assuming LOS).
You are literally forgetting 2/3 of the weapons on the thing... 20 shots from the gauss arrays are nothing to sneeze at, and Sautekh allows you to move and shoot with the main (though small profile) gun too. Don't leave Baby (DDA) in the corner the whole game.
Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.
EnTyme wrote: The DDA has a range of 72". Half range is capable of hitting most of a standard table (assuming LOS).
You are literally forgetting 2/3 of the weapons on the thing... 20 shots from the gauss arrays are nothing to sneeze at, and Sautekh allows you to move and shoot with the main (though small profile) gun too. Don't leave Baby (DDA) in the corner the whole game.
Oh, I'm not forgetting about it, I'm just reminding C'thulhuSpy that the main gun's range is insane, and you don't have to move it very far to get the benefit of the Mephrit code.
Pyrothem wrote: Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.
I did something similar in a game against my buddy's Orks. He moved a squad of Boyz up along with some characters, prepping to charge and screening more Boyz behind. After wiping out almost all the Boyz from the first squad, I flew my DD Ark over my gunline to charge that squad, and blocking the Boyz behind from being able to charge anything but the DD Ark. My next turn, I flew away and wash/rinsed/repeated the slaughter (with the addition of 20 Gauss Flayer Array shots coming in). Bonus was he also charged my Ark with a character, and after falling back with it, left that character as the closest target (who then took 4 low power shots to the face from my cannon).
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.
Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.
Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.
The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.
Why would you want your DDA in short range, where it can't nuke stuff or get charged?
It's not necessarily about what you WANT. I make sure to have lots of options, if your strategy hinges on things going how you want it isn't a good strategy. Having other options is great. The low power profile is a good gun and the flayer arrays are great. If you need to clear objectives those flayers combined with the low power profile and the mephrit dynastic code can be dangerous. Use the long range when you can and then mid to end game you can move the DDA's in with support from other units and cause some serious damage. The DDA is a pretty good tank with some significant firepower.
Pyrothem wrote: Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.
I did something similar in a game against my buddy's Orks. He moved a squad of Boyz up along with some characters, prepping to charge and screening more Boyz behind. After wiping out almost all the Boyz from the first squad, I flew my DD Ark over my gunline to charge that squad, and blocking the Boyz behind from being able to charge anything but the DD Ark. My next turn, I flew away and wash/rinsed/repeated the slaughter (with the addition of 20 Gauss Flayer Array shots coming in). Bonus was he also charged my Ark with a character, and after falling back with it, left that character as the closest target (who then took 4 low power shots to the face from my cannon).
That's an excellent use of tactics. This is a huge advantage crons have. You can use all these great fly vehicles to protect your units from assault. I feel like a lot of times people see a big gun and that's it......the DDA has 10 rapid fire str 4 ap -1 shots....use mephrit and you bump it up to ap -2. Combined with fly and quantum shielding and you've got a solid fire platform when needed.
Preventing a large assault group from choosing how to fight you will cripple a strategy hinging on it.
Blndmage wrote: My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.
I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.
I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.
Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?
The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.
Blndmage wrote: My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.
I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.
I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.
Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?
The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.
I'm a bit confused here, you can pick your powers, with some caveats to stop doubling, or you can roll, rerolling duplicates.
We've got a bit of everything locally, harlequin, nids, Necron, ultramarines, blood angels, nurgle marines, daemons, elder, and I know I'm missing folks. I think the local group is up to 44 players.
Blndmage wrote: My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.
I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.
I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.
Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?
The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.
I'm a bit confused here, you can pick your powers, with some caveats to stop doubling, or you can roll, rerolling duplicates.
We've got a bit of everything locally, harlequin, nids, Necron, ultramarines, blood angels, nurgle marines, daemons, elder, and I know I'm missing folks. I think the local group is up to 44 players.
You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.
Personally I feel like the tctan is a little bit too much of a point investment for what they do, at least in a group of 3. They dish mortal wounds well, but not a huge amount of them. I think by taking 3, which is a hefty points cost, you're really limiting your options. Like I said before, I like having options. If you're just going for a fluffy list and you're not worried about winning or being competitive I think you'll have a lot of fun though.
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
There are some clever parts to it, the annihilation barges can really shine with a -1 AP, QS gives them basically a 4++ against d6 damage weapons, and are fast enough to reliably get close. He runs the Ghetto celestine D-Lord pretty much stock from this thread. He uses the veil to teleport the 10 man immortal squad into position and MWBD to make some explosive close range firepower. The only things I'm struggling to figure out is the destroyers and the deathmarks. He could have run them as a 6 man destroyer squad and a 3 man heavy destroyer squad, but instead ran them in three groups of 2 -1. He basically gives up RP for those units, is he trying to protect the heavy destroyers, or make it harder to take out destroyers. He also limits his access to Extermination protocols, since he has three units that can use it and none of them large enough to really take advantage of it. I think I figured out the deathmarks actually, he is using them to protect his C'Tan and D-Lord. You can't shoot at a character unless it is the closest unit, deep strike the deathmarks right near the middle of the enemies formation (preferably out of LOS) and then runs the D-Lord and C-Tan up with impunity. That's dirty, but explains why his two CC bruisers don't have an escort like scarabs.
Lots of new ideas to take in with the list, not sure I'm on board with the destroyers squads like he has them, but the rest of the list is novel enough to make me take a second look.
Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?
There are some clever parts to it, the annihilation barges can really shine with a -1 AP, QS gives them basically a 4++ against d6 damage weapons, and are fast enough to reliably get close. He runs the Ghetto celestine D-Lord pretty much stock from this thread. He uses the veil to teleport the 10 man immortal squad into position and MWBD to make some explosive close range firepower. The only things I'm struggling to figure out is the destroyers and the deathmarks. He could have run them as a 6 man destroyer squad and a 3 man heavy destroyer squad, but instead ran them in three groups of 2 -1. He basically gives up RP for those units, is he trying to protect the heavy destroyers, or make it harder to take out destroyers. He also limits his access to Extermination protocols, since he has three units that can use it and none of them large enough to really take advantage of it. I think I figured out the deathmarks actually, he is using them to protect his C'Tan and D-Lord. You can't shoot at a character unless it is the closest unit, deep strike the deathmarks right near the middle of the enemies formation (preferably out of LOS) and then runs the D-Lord and C-Tan up with impunity. That's dirty, but explains why his two CC bruisers don't have an escort like scarabs.
Lots of new ideas to take in with the list, not sure I'm on board with the destroyers squads like he has them, but the rest of the list is novel enough to make me take a second look.
I wonder if the destroyers are clean-up crews for the annihilation barges. The annihilation barge lays down close range firepower using the mephrit code to soften targets up, then the heavy destroyers finish them off from range. The regular destroyers are extra firepower on anything that gets too close.
The small units would let you cover most of the board.
You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.
Yup, you've got it right. I think there is a loop hole to this, which is by using the Cosmic Powers Stratagem. The limit is imposed on choosing your powers before the battle. Cosmic Powers lets you replace one you've chosen with a different one during a movement phase, theoretically letting you double up on powers between 2 C'Tan/TArks. It's a bit of a stretch, so I'd definitely confer with my opponent or roll off before trying it.
Also, since they are not psychic powers, and there is nothing in their rules stating you can't, it appears to be legal to use the same power twice in one phase. Ugh, 2 Transcendent C'Tans running up into the middle of the enemy and both dropping Cosmic Fire...gross
You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.
Yup, you've got it right. I think there is a loop hole to this, which is by using the Cosmic Powers Stratagem. The limit is imposed on choosing your powers before the battle. Cosmic Powers lets you replace one you've chosen with a different one during a movement phase, theoretically letting you double up on powers between 2 C'Tan/TArks. It's a bit of a stretch, so I'd definitely confer with my opponent or roll off before trying it.
Also, since they are not psychic powers, and there is nothing in their rules stating you can't, it appears to be legal to use the same power twice in one phase. Ugh, 2 Transcendent C'Tans running up into the middle of the enemy and both dropping Cosmic Fire...gross
uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.
But I think these guys could be good with triplets. They are very similar to Flyrants, just not sure why they have a BS skill if they cant shoot.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.
That's all it needs and should have had.
Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint
Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.
Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD
Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.
Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.
The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.
Why would you want your DDA in short range, where it can't nuke stuff or get charged?
It's not necessarily about what you WANT. I make sure to have lots of options, if your strategy hinges on things going how you want it isn't a good strategy. Having other options is great. The low power profile is a good gun and the flayer arrays are great. If you need to clear objectives those flayers combined with the low power profile and the mephrit dynastic code can be dangerous. Use the long range when you can and then mid to end game you can move the DDA's in with support from other units and cause some serious damage. The DDA is a pretty good tank with some significant firepower.
Pyrothem wrote: Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.
I did something similar in a game against my buddy's Orks. He moved a squad of Boyz up along with some characters, prepping to charge and screening more Boyz behind. After wiping out almost all the Boyz from the first squad, I flew my DD Ark over my gunline to charge that squad, and blocking the Boyz behind from being able to charge anything but the DD Ark. My next turn, I flew away and wash/rinsed/repeated the slaughter (with the addition of 20 Gauss Flayer Array shots coming in). Bonus was he also charged my Ark with a character, and after falling back with it, left that character as the closest target (who then took 4 low power shots to the face from my cannon).
That's an excellent use of tactics. This is a huge advantage crons have. You can use all these great fly vehicles to protect your units from assault. I feel like a lot of times people see a big gun and that's it......the DDA has 10 rapid fire str 4 ap -1 shots....use mephrit and you bump it up to ap -2. Combined with fly and quantum shielding and you've got a solid fire platform when needed.
Preventing a large assault group from choosing how to fight you will cripple a strategy hinging on it.
[/spoiler]
People just see the big gun on DDA. Usually 2-3 DA and/or combined with nephrek destroyers you will blast off most T8+ units on the table by turn 2.
Then just using low power profile will be good enough for what's left, and 20 rapid fire shots helps a lot to clear infantry. Sauthek or Mephrit for those.
I also use them (and the ghost ark) to screen my fragile troops. Ghost ark is the most robust unit we have point for point, followed closely by DDA. If you take away DMG2 weapons, they can take quite a beating.
uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.
There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)
uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.
There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)
If you're investing all the points for 3 Tctan it would make sense to pitch a couple command points to ensure you get optimal powers. That would make for a pretty strong fire team
uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.
There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)
Yeah, using the strat "Cosmic Powers" to swap a C'Tan power could be used to circumvent the rule of not being able to choose multiples of a power until all 6 are chosen. So you have a match with 2 C'Tans, we'll say using powers 1 2, and 3 4. Using the strat, you could select powers 1, 2, 3, or 4 to replace one of your currently chosen powers without needing to select powers 5 and 6. The new loadout could be 1 2 on one C'Tan, and 2 3 on the other.
uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.
There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)
Yeah, using the strat "Cosmic Powers" to swap a C'Tan power could be used to circumvent the rule of not being able to choose multiples of a power until all 6 are chosen. So you have a match with 2 C'Tans, we'll say using powers 1 2, and 3 4. Using the strat, you could select powers 1, 2, 3, or 4 to replace one of your currently chosen powers without needing to select powers 5 and 6. The new loadout could be 1 2 on one C'Tan, and 2 3 on the other.
Honestly I would just pick good ones for the first two and then roll for the last one, pay CP to swap out for him if necessary. Rolling isn't even bad when most of the choices are good.
jedben1 wrote:I am looking for tactics against Craftworld Eldar.
Any ideas?
Super vague, hard to give advice. What point level, what type of list do you want to play/have the models for, what missions do you play, etc?
So, starting crons. Which getting started would work best? Forgebane? I like the idea of the Stalker or the Annihilation barge, both for their own reasons. I really like fast, mobile firebases, but I also like walkers. I like the idea of slow moving, walking force backed up by large guns allowing them to take the mid field and disperse from there.
jedben1 wrote: I am looking for tactics against Craftworld Eldar.
Any ideas?
Without more specific info i can only give you general answers. If darkreapers are in the list. You need to stay out of theur LoS or kill them hard. Shining spears are really hard to stay away from as they have high movement. Same as with dark reapers kill them quickly. Fire prisms can be a threat but they arent that tough. Wave serpents are obnoxious to kill and can pop the shields for a surprise smite. If they are transporting something scary try and kill them other wise focus on other threats. The whole army infantry wise is very low Toughness. Pretty much all of our guns will wound on 3s. Eldar pack alot of psykers and -1 to hit. Take out psykers if possible and close the gap if you plan on using tesla. If they bring a hemlock kill it asap its flamers are really strong. Wraith lords vary alot by load out so treat them as needed. Wraith blades are scary in close but have zero range. Wraith guard either have good range cannons or short range flamers. Both versions put out alot of wounds, kill quickly. As for our stuff. Our usual stuff still does its job, jusy remember tesla will probably be a little less effective. Take immortals,DDA, destroyers. If you have a vault it will do well. Wraiths and tomb blades can do very well against them too.
So, starting crons. Which getting started would work best? Forgebane? I like the idea of the Stalker or the Annihilation barge, both for their own reasons. I really like fast, mobile firebases, but I also like walkers
It depends on your budget, but I went for the hat trick and got Forgebane, the old and new starters (over a span of time of course, it's too much to put together all at once).
That nets a full 20 robot warrior blob, 10 immortals, the barge and stalker. I pulled a sword and some bits from the lychguard sprue to build the spare overlord with a different loadout.
nintura wrote: So, starting crons. Which getting started would work best? Forgebane? I like the idea of the Stalker or the Annihilation barge, both for their own reasons. I really like fast, mobile firebases, but I also like walkers. I like the idea of slow moving, walking force backed up by large guns allowing them to take the mid field and disperse from there.
The stalker isn't great, and the annihilation barge is really bad. I think Forgebane is the best setup for buying models on the cheap that you'll actually get to use.
The Stalker is still pretty good and it's re-rolling 1s is still good if your not running any Nihilakh detachments. The only issue is that it still feels like an Index unit with Codex updates e.g. cheaper THGC and Heavy 2d6 flamer.
I think the Old and Nee SC box's are a great place to start a Necron army. Roughly 1100pts between them. I would only suggest forgebane if you want both armies, have someone to split/trade with or if you wanted the new Cryptek, Wraiths and I'mmortals. Not going to lie the Lychguard are good but you won't be using them much.
You can get a pretty good 500pt list from both SC box's
Well, a couple things. First off, thanks for all the input. Secondly, I dont care what's good or bad. I do like semi-effective but I also like choices
Thirdly, I like the idea of the stalker giving re-roll 1s which increase the odds of Tesla hitting that 6. So they kinda go hand in hand.
Im using the praetors/lych guard box I have as test models for my painting scheme, which will be like the black/red that Den of Imagination did their style, though without the blue.
Im using the praetors/lych guard box I have as test models for my painting scheme, which will be like the black/red that Den of Imagination did their style, though without the blue.
nintura wrote: So, starting crons. Which getting started would work best? Forgebane? I like the idea of the Stalker or the Annihilation barge, both for their own reasons. I really like fast, mobile firebases, but I also like walkers. I like the idea of slow moving, walking force backed up by large guns allowing them to take the mid field and disperse from there.
The stalker isn't great, and the annihilation barge is really bad. I think Forgebane is the best setup for buying models on the cheap that you'll actually get to use.
Eh, the barge isn't that bad. It does have some nice speed, RoF and it is a QS shielded vehicle.
Probably needs a price decrease though, and the gun needs more shots. For a bit less you can get 8 immortals with tesla carbines, which does mean more shots, but at a lower strength.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nintura wrote: So, starting crons. Which getting started would work best? Forgebane? I like the idea of the Stalker or the Annihilation barge, both for their own reasons. I really like fast, mobile firebases, but I also like walkers. I like the idea of slow moving, walking force backed up by large guns allowing them to take the mid field and disperse from there.
If you like big guns, you might want a DDA. That's the biggest gun we have, and it packs a punch.
Here's what I'm going to run next time I play. Lots of firepower and some tricks, but lacks a lot of screens. I'm also not sure on the HQ for the DDA Detachment but I didn't have any better ideas. One question I have - can Time's Arrow target a unit that only contains a character in it? Or does it follow standard character rules?
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh
+ HQ +
Imotekh the Stormlord . Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist
Lord: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light
+ Troops +
Immortals: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal
Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
+ Elites +
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver: Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow
ski107 wrote: Here's what I'm going to run next time I play. Lots of firepower and some tricks, but lacks a lot of screens. I'm also not sure on the HQ for the DDA Detachment but I didn't have any better ideas. One question I have - can Time's Arrow target a unit that only contains a character in it? Or does it follow standard character rules?
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh
+ HQ +
Imotekh the Stormlord . Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist
Lord: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light
+ Troops +
Immortals: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal
Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
+ Elites +
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver: Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow
Yes times arrow can target a character. C'Tan powers happen during the movement phase and the restriction on targeting characters applies in the shooting phase. Your list looks solid. Pretty similar to one im working on. My only suggestion would be to stick the destroyers in an auxilary nephrek detatchment so you can deep strike them.
Grand Illusion pushes the monolith and vault up the board, and the monolith has the lychguard and the big unit of immortals in it. This comes out to 1572 points in the enemy's face before the first turn. Very possible to get screwed on the GI roll but that's what CP is for I guess. Only question is, what the hell do I pick for my dynasty?
I'm basically just betting on the enemy not being able to completely kill both a tesseract vault and a monolith in one turn. We have to be able to weather incoming fire somehow, otherwise we're just going to get outshot by every tau and guard list out there.
Arachnofiend wrote: So after getting spanked hard by a Drukhari list I've decided to go all in on the sneaky bricks to try to get some sort of turn one pressure going.
Grand Illusion pushes the monolith and vault up the board, and the monolith has the lychguard and the big unit of immortals in it. This comes out to 1572 points in the enemy's face before the first turn. Very possible to get screwed on the GI roll but that's what CP is for I guess. Only question is, what the hell do I pick for my dynasty?
You still cant use the eternity gate on turn one outside your deployment zone.
Arachnofiend wrote: So after getting spanked hard by a Drukhari list I've decided to go all in on the sneaky bricks to try to get some sort of turn one pressure going.
Grand Illusion pushes the monolith and vault up the board, and the monolith has the lychguard and the big unit of immortals in it. This comes out to 1572 points in the enemy's face before the first turn. Very possible to get screwed on the GI roll but that's what CP is for I guess. Only question is, what the hell do I pick for my dynasty?
You still cant use the eternity gate on turn one outside your deployment zone.
Not completely true. You can use eternity gate stratagem and veil of darkness if the models started on the table legs that turn to go out of deployment zone.
Not completely true. You can use eternity gate stratagem and veil of darkness if the models started on the table legs that turn to go out of deployment zone.
It is completely true. Neither of those things are the eternity gate. One is the veil of darkness and the other is tge dimensional corridor strategem.
Crap, you're right. I'm pretty sure this is the same issue as the VoD where the RAW isn't the intent but it's the way things are right now. I can still more or less get the same results by starting my lychguard out of line of sight and using Dimensional Corridor, I guess... God, after getting thrashed by Agents of Vect on Tuesday I'm paranoid about any tactic that relies on stratagems to function. T_T
I'm not sure if someone's already mentioned this, but is this the toughest warlord we can make? Nephrekh CCB, skin of living gold (-1 to be hit) and lighting field for 4++. Or is the Nihilakh time splinter cloak (with 4++) a better choice?
Aza'Gorod wrote: I'm not sure if someone's already mentioned this, but is this the toughest warlord we can make? Nephrekh CCB, skin of living gold (-1 to be hit) and lighting field for 4++. Or is the Nihilakh time splinter cloak (with 4++) a better choice?
If you go Nihilakh you'll lose out on the -1 to hit penalties. Avoiding damage is preferable to tanking it. Its also useless on a CCB, as you'll want to move around. Nephrekh + skin + lightning field seems to be the better overall choice. You could give the nephrekh warlord a solar staff instead. Then that would be a -2 to hit if you can proc the blind.
I’ve got an ITC format league tournament to plan for and am thinking my crons have got what it takes to do well.
But I’m trying to decide if I run 2 units of 6 x destroyers in my outrider detachment and one 9 man unit of tomb blades with Tesla and sheildvanes, or do I go 2 units of tomb blades and 1 unit of destroyers.
The units both cost almost the same, 315 for the tomb blades, 300 for destroyers. The destroyers stratagem is very nice, but the secondary objectives in these missions seem to favour the slightly more mobile tomb blades.
To elaborate the blades won’t give up gang busters as they only have 2 wounds, whereas the destroyers will give up a point for every 2 models removed. The blades can’t give up reaper either as they are only a 9 man unit. The primaries for scoring objectives make me feel the tomb blades will do well moving up to 20” with an advance per turn, which also helps with recon and behind enemy lines.
I’m hoping to keep a cloaktek within range of one of these units to help a bit with reaminate, which I will get more mileage out of with the tomb blades. I’m also not set on what dynasty for the outrider yet, what do you guys suggest? I’m leaning towards Nephrekh for the extra movement but I could maybe go Mephrit for the extra ap.
option be preferable? You'd more or less be fine with damage output there. Pretty decent for 600 points (though I'd still want to throw some Scarabs in too)
Judging by the way you were describing things I'd want to run them all as Nephrekh.
1500 points agains Raven Guard Primaris force, it was friendly game in FLGS.
My army was Mephrit, put together in 20 minutes, main idea is to get 10x lychguard and CCB forward and add veiled immortals, but Only War deploy made Deciever useless.
I won, but did a lot of mistakes, especially with character positioning. But overall I was pleasantly surprised with this barebones build.
My experience:
Warriors are strongly underestimated. With MWBD their mephrit rapid fire is stil punishing. Immortals are sort of distraction infantry carnifex, they brutalized bikes and after that got shot to pieces by half of army.
Mephrit WT is situational at best... still not sure if its worth it. OK, it hurt badly lieutanant and enemy warlord, but...its rather gimmick than support of army.
CCB itself is still cool. Lighning field gives crucial 4++ and sometimes serves MW. And when it died because of my mistake, stratagem on resurrection is great. Like, really great Shieldguard can withstand brutal hail of fire. Strategem is situational, but in one moment saved the unit and killed some primarises. Still, its really pricey unit...
Scarabs are simply great. I should use them as bodyguards for CTans but instead threw them and tarpitted hellblasters who got chewed one by one. For the points its immense value.
Double CTans are...good, but better without my mistakes. Transcendent died because of it. Still, two powers a turn meant a lot of MW. Deciever added his own meteors and after that his StarGod Fists crushed some Inceptors.
Mephrit itself is great dynasty code. That -1 AP is strong. Overall it worked as it should, but I need more games, still rusty from my IG days
option be preferable? You'd more or less be fine with damage output there. Pretty decent for 600 points (though I'd still want to throw some Scarabs in too)
Judging by the way you were describing things I'd want to run them all as Nephrekh.
I still don't get the point of putting Tesla on Tomb Blades. They're more than mobile enough to always be in rapid fire range and can't be locked down in combat if they get charged, so why take Tesla, especially when Tomb Blades aren't eligible for MWBD?
Any advice for beating Aeldari armies? It feels like any shooting I take is going to get smacked by stacked - to hit and any attempts at bringing melee up the board is just going to get nuked by Forewarned. I can't even rely on my destroyers because EP will just get denied by Agents of Vect every turn. I feel I can make lists that would be at least manageable against any other army but I can't for the life of me come up with something that'd do well against the space elves.
Arachnofiend wrote: Any advice for beating Aeldari armies? It feels like any shooting I take is going to get smacked by stacked - to hit and any attempts at bringing melee up the board is just going to get nuked by Forewarned. I can't even rely on my destroyers because EP will just get denied by Agents of Vect every turn. I feel I can make lists that would be at least manageable against any other army but I can't for the life of me come up with something that'd do well against the space elves.
Honestly? You can't be that afraid of Agents. We are SUPER lucky that Necrons aren't an army that lives and dies by its Strategems. If they wanna deny Extermination Protocols...let them! Wanna prevent that? Deep Strike them and then make the enemy choose between that, Dimmensional Corridor, Emergency Beams, Enhanced Beams...we are good, my friend.
My experience fighting craft world eldar is limited to a few index fights, but I've been keeping up on them since one of the top players locally plays them. Besides you know what they say, on the internet one of the best ways to get the correct answer is to post the wrong one, so by hook or by crook we'll get this figured out.
The trick to eldar is they don't have any general purpose units outside of guardians, so the best starting advice is find the part of their army that is irritating you and kill it. In theory they are "fragile", but with Alaitoc (-1 to hit at 12"+), battle focus (advance and fire as if stationary), and conceal (an additional -1 to hit), It's actually remarkably hard to exploit that. They are one of the hardest hitting armies, and faster than us, so it will be hard to keep our valuable units alive. Finally they have lots of psychers, who don't generate a lot of mortal wounds but do add a lot of synergy to the army.
Things we have going for us is that we probably will have a higher model count, so board control won't be theirs by default. We don't rely on psychic powers to do our mortal wounds, so we avoid a lot of pain there. They don't have a lot of mortal wounds, so our invuls are pretty safe.
So my thought is, clump up don't let them hit units in isolation, because if they get to pick their dance partners they will win. Have a plan on how to deal with their backline, my current go to is suicide wraiths/scarabs. If they even get a single unit of dark reapers they have already paid for themselves. They have lots of deep strikers and fast moving units, so save your destroyer drop until you have the center of the board or an opportunity to drop in cover and within range of something tasty comes up. They are one of the armies were silver tide works, Eldar are much better at killing elites than weenies, and warriors are dangerous to most of their non-vehicle assets.
Eldar being "fragile" is a myth purported by GW (who can't balance for gak if you hadn't noticed with the Power that Eldar constantly have), 1d4chan (One of the worst places to get advice) and then the spoiled Eldar players themselves who think slightly less durability is totally a thing when their offense makes it not even close to mattering.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Eldar being "fragile" is a myth purported by GW (who can't balance for gak if you hadn't noticed with the Power that Eldar constantly have), 1d4chan (One of the worst places to get advice) and then the spoiled Eldar players themselves who think slightly less durability is totally a thing when their offense makes it not even close to mattering.
Eldar are "fragile" if you are just looking at their "normal foot soilders" (not bikers, not vehicles, not wraith units, not their mainstays) stats Lol , but Eldar Trickery have "ten thousands" ways to improve that or not letting you to explore this weakness, meanwhile they still hit really hard.
Eldar are low Toughness. That much is true. But they are stupidly resilient due to buffs and various other defensive abilities. Not to mention how upsettingly tough wave serpents are. Beating them requires even more selective targetting than normal. They dont have quite as high range on their anti tank as we do but alot of their infantry will match or exceed ours. DDA will be invaluable there. Forewarned is brutal but LOS blocking stops it. Its not hard to stay out of LoS of a farseer. Just expect it. Also alot if eldar units arent great in melee. There are of course exceptions. Generally i suggest killing shining spears, hemlocks and reapers first. After that fireprisms and psykers.
So the Nephrekh relic seems pretty pokey. An assault 6, S5, -3AP, 1dmg staff which stops enemies from overwatching on a 4+ for for every hit, is quite ace. Seems cool in combo with a unit of Wraiths charging a particularly shooty unit or even a melee unit with that -1 to hit it gives the targeted unit as well. I'm considering taking that on a cloak Cryptek and then the veil on an overlord who brings a unit of Lychguard with him, if I really want something to die.
Even without the abilities as well, the actual staff's stats seem nice for one dude
My biggest frustration with necrons is vehicles that should have quantum shielding but don't like the monolith. with the current rules for quantum shielding if the monolith had it, it would become a auto include because it would be so survivable.
Angusman wrote: My biggest frustration with necrons is vehicles that should have quantum shielding but don't like the monolith. with the current rules for quantum shielding if the monolith had it, it would become a auto include because it would be so survivable.
I feel like that's probably why they didn't put it on a monolith. I'd say it just needs a point decrease by like 50-80
So is it safe to assume taking Tesla against Eldar with very easy access to - 1/-2 to hit is a bad idea, and you should stick with Warriors en Gauss mortals, gauss blades, destroyers and DDA's?
Angusman wrote: My biggest frustration with necrons is vehicles that should have quantum shielding but don't like the monolith. with the current rules for quantum shielding if the monolith had it, it would become a auto include because it would be so survivable.
I feel like that's probably why they didn't put it on a monolith. I'd say it just needs a point decrease by like 50-80
That's really all it would take to make it solid. It's a good multitool if cheap enough. Otherwise when you build around it you spend far too many points.
Nagerash wrote: So is it safe to assume taking Tesla against Eldar with very easy access to - 1/-2 to hit is a bad idea, and you should stick with Warriors en Gauss mortals, gauss blades, destroyers and DDA's?
Maybe - maybe not, against -1 gauss still has to be in rapid fire range to be better than Tesla
I think I would still prefer Gauss then over none exploding tesla
That coupled with ignore Morale and a Repair Spyder gives 2 deny chances and a nice buff to the Warriors/immortals (Szeras?).
Not sure which Dynasty is best against them... Mephrit is nice as I feel it would be even more benefit getting in that rapid fire range. So for that reason Sautekh and nephrek would work as well. Although since they're vulnerable to Assault (most of them) novokh could work as well.
What are people thinking about Mephit Ghost arks. Me and buddy made lists for each other and he gave me 2 in my list. Wow, they tore stuff apart, 20 shots with Rapid fire at -2 ap just vaped marines and termies. Super survivable, literal walls of armor. I thought they were pretty good. Or did I just have a random experience?
Hey performed pretty good at a tournament yesterday. Played vs Thousand sons, Necron and Blood Angels. I dished havok all 3 games, but lost the first too on technicalities (1st game the guy slow played and had one more objective than i at the end of the game, cause i didn't look at the clock. Second game the guy used a cloaktek to capture the relic and i was unable to snipe him since there was ONE necron warrior in close combat 1/2 inch closer to my destroyers...)
If you just look at the destruction i inflicted, i won all 3 games hands down. Even freaking magnus was brought down to 3HP (in turn 3, the slow player prevented me to finish him). Just for testing purposes. Here's my list. I gotta work on objective capturing though.
Spoiler:
Bataillon +5CP Sautekh
Immotek
Cryptek + chrono + abysal staff
20 warrior
10 tesla immo
10 tesla immo
DDA DDA
The necron list i whiped out, (but who still won) but was still fun to play against
Spoiler:
Bataillon +5 CP Mephrit
CCB Clocktek
20 warriors
20 warriors
10 tesla immo
10 tesla immo
6 deathmarks
6 deathmarks
6 deathmark
Annihilation barge all tesla
Annihilation barge all tesla
Annihilation barge all tesla
Night scythe
Nigth scythe
Few points to discuss
1- Double destroyers unit draw fire all game. My troops never got attacked all 3 games.
2- Used VoD to alpha with the first destroyers unit and usually poped in cover if i could. That unit usually lasted all game and dished pain. Sometimes down to 2-1 destroyer, with cryptek and enhanced RP i got back to big units.
2.5- Yeah destroyers + stratagem just killed everything at pointed at. They're that good.
3- Second destroyer unit deepstriked on T2, usually killed its target and then got whiped out. I'm wondering if the second destroyer unit is too much, since i already got two DDA who did a nice job.
4- Tesla immo cleared pink horrors like it was nothing. Vs thougher troops my immo screened my warrior who did the heavy lifting (cause of AP-1).
5- I wished my destroyers where Sautekh, especially in the chase against the cloacktek with the relic. If you use VoD to alpha with a destroyer unit, you have no need of Nephrek.
6- Night scythe wasted all my firepower an entire turn to bring down. They are not so easy to kill. I was the only one who killed them since i knew what he was up to. First target i shot.
7- Barges.... well i got scared so i send my destroyers at them. But they could have shot down my troops. If i used some, i would go guass canon and sautekh.
8- My 2nd unit of destroyer got shot down by 18 intercepting mephrit Deathmarks. Wow, there's some use to these son of bitches. Who knew...
9- Working to remove one destroyer unit to make room for a C'Tan.
10- My 2 sautekh DDA performed as expected. They are auto-include in all my lists. Stay still for 1-2 rounds to shoot big stuff, then advance, low power gun is good enough for the rest. Get objective and screen your troops.
Just thought of something. Had anyone used Sautekh Destroyers, advanced them and than used their Stratagem? They would get -1 to hit but with the Stratagem they still get to re-roll all failed hits wounds?
Odrankt wrote: Just thought of something. Had anyone used Sautekh Destroyers, advanced them and than used their Stratagem? They would get -1 to hit but with the Stratagem they still get to re-roll all failed hits wounds?
Rerolls before modifiers.
So unless you MWBD them, you would be rerolling 1s and 2s, not rerolling 3s, and hitting on 4-6s.
If rerolls occur before modifiers, then when you check for misses the 3s would still count as hits, since you haven't reached the point where you would apply the -1 yet.
One of those things that sounds odd, but does make sense when you think about it.
Da W wrote: My 2nd unit of destroyer got shot down by 18 intercepting mephrit Deathmarks. Wow, there's some use to these son of bitches. Who knew...
I knew.
I've been trying to tell people for a while now. Mephrit Deathmarks are vicious, especially if near a Lord (the potential to turn 1s into mortal wounds should not be underestimated). MSU units of them are very versatile, but I'll probably just stick to my one unit of 10. Those three units of 6 would have come in real handy, though. May even be a good idea to include to make a Brigade detachment.
Jackers wrote: In lists where I take a Mephrit detachment, I will likely try and fit in a unit of Deathmarks. Dropping straight into rapid fire range is brutal.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, deathmarks synergize very well with mephrit.
If you are building a mephrit list its worth having a unit of them.
It's my favorite little combo of juxtapositions (light/dark, immortality/death),
Balance Keepers: 1x Lord (Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness)
10x Immortals (Gauss)
10x Deathmarks
Everything drops in within 12", so they're all getting rapid fire *and* Mephrit code's extra -1 AP (except the Lord, but he's just a bonus 3 S5 AP-2 shots to finish something off). Plus the reroll 1s to wound for everyone. If used in coordination with Nephrek Destroyers coming in turn 2 there's going to be some major hurt located in one corner of the table.
Da W wrote: My 2nd unit of destroyer got shot down by 18 intercepting mephrit Deathmarks. Wow, there's some use to these son of bitches. Who knew...
I knew.
I've been trying to tell people for a while now. Mephrit Deathmarks are vicious, especially if near a Lord (the potential to turn 1s into mortal wounds should not be underestimated). MSU units of them are very versatile, but I'll probably just stick to my one unit of 10. Those three units of 6 would have come in real handy, though. May even be a good idea to include to make a Brigade detachment.
I was originally doing 4 squads of 6 Mephrit Deathmarks, but as everyone is going to use the Beta Rules I figured I'd make them 3 squads of...something. At what point does a LD10 squad really become afraid of morale?
Idea would to GI the Warriors up towards my enemy's DZ if I go 1st or 2nd. I haven't planned on rolling a 3 so have no idea what I would take as my 3rd option.
Deathmarks, Lord and Gauss mortals will be there own pool of death (As Skoffs suggests).
Destroyers will deploy turn 2 and testing to see if an Aux detachment is better than an Nephrekh Outrider.
CCB has the best range and mobility to buff either the Warriors, Immortals or Deathmarks with CW.
Tiberius501 wrote: So the Nephrekh relic seems pretty pokey. An assault 6, S5, -3AP, 1dmg staff which stops enemies from overwatching on a 4+ for for every hit, is quite ace. Seems cool in combo with a unit of Wraiths charging a particularly shooty unit or even a melee unit with that -1 to hit it gives the targeted unit as well. I'm considering taking that on a cloak Cryptek and then the veil on an overlord who brings a unit of Lychguard with him, if I really want something to die.
Even without the abilities as well, the actual staff's stats seem nice for one dude
Turning off the overwatch and the -1 to hit seems kinda so so for Wraiths, they're fairly hard against most things. Niche at best. Great for Scarabs though.
The other possible use I think is that it gives a bit of mass to Praetorians - 16 str 5AP-3 shots instead of 10 is much more weighty.
Idea would to GI the Warriors up towards my enemy's DZ if I go 1st or 2nd. I haven't planned on rolling a 3 so have no idea what I would take as my 3rd option.
Deathmarks, Lord and Gauss mortals will be there own pool of death (As Skoffs suggests).
Destroyers will deploy turn 2 and testing to see if an Aux detachment is better than an Nephrekh Outrider.
CCB has the best range and mobility to buff either the Warriors, Immortals or Deathmarks with CW.
Have not decide on a C'tan power.
DDAs are there to make sure stuff dies.
Might swap CCB or Szeras. What do you guys think?
Yeey, a fellow Silver Tide player! Here’s my feedback:
-Szeras vs a CCB is a tough one. The CCB can MWBD a Warrior unit that has been Grand Illusion’d forward (or both with the strategem), though youll stil need to congaline back if you didn’t get first turn to stay within range of Immortal Pride.
However, I can already hear the Warriors begging for some Cryptek support! This is where Szeras would come in perfectly. However, now you need to roll a 3 for the Grand Illusion....
My vote would go towards Szeras, simply because the Warriors will be that much more deadly with a 4+ RP and an upgrade for Szeras.
This will also save you a CP, you are already spending one for the Outrider and no doubt one for the Grand Illusion.
If you decide to go for the CCB, I’d turn him into a budget Overlord. You can easily conga-line back to still be within MWBD/Immortal Pride range and it saves you some points for....
SCARABS! Where are the cuddly little bugs man! You need at least two minimum units of them to sit on objective markers. Though I have no id where you could get the points from....
Doctoralex wrote: [SCARABS! Where are the cuddly little bugs man! You need at least two minimum units of them to sit on objective markers. Though I have no id where you could get the points from....
... just drop some warriors to free up points. Anything over 15 in a unit is fine for them.
Doctoralex wrote: [SCARABS! Where are the cuddly little bugs man! You need at least two minimum units of them to sit on objective markers. Though I have no id where you could get the points from....
... just drop some warriors to free up points. Anything over 15 in a unit is fine for them.
Yea, I was thinking Warriors too. Though Turning the CCB into a budget Overlord pretty much covers the cost as well.
See, I'm trying to figure out if I want Immo Pride and the CCB to make those 2 20 warriors more survivable. Or, take Szeras and the warriors could become T5 and 4+ RP which might help in the long run. I think 2 15 units will be okay in what I want them to do (Literally stop my opponent from moving past his DZ).
I want to bring Scarabs but trying to figure out a way to bring them is quite a challenge. I would like them to be in the Nephrekh detach do that they can move 16" across the table. In fact, if I was to take 2 9 Scarabs unit with Nephreak I would probably GI those 2 units up so that they would end their movement within an inch of the enemy and definitely stopping them from getting any board control.
Im going to re-do my list and see what I can do to make it better. Would dropping a Destoryer modle make the Destroyer unit weaker? Those 50pts can allow me more room to mess around.
It's my favorite little combo of juxtapositions (light/dark, immortality/death),
Balance Keepers: 1x Lord (Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness)
10x Immortals (Gauss)
10x Deathmarks
Everything drops in within 12", so they're all getting rapid fire *and* Mephrit code's extra -1 AP (except the Lord, but he's just a bonus 3 S5 AP-2 shots to finish something off). Plus the reroll 1s to wound for everyone. If used in coordination with Nephrek Destroyers coming in turn 2 there's going to be some major hurt located in one corner of the table.
That's sorta what I was thinking too. Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
Da W wrote: My 2nd unit of destroyer got shot down by 18 intercepting mephrit Deathmarks. Wow, there's some use to these son of bitches. Who knew...
I knew.
I've been trying to tell people for a while now. Mephrit Deathmarks are vicious, especially if near a Lord (the potential to turn 1s into mortal wounds should not be underestimated). MSU units of them are very versatile, but I'll probably just stick to my one unit of 10. Those three units of 6 would have come in real handy, though. May even be a good idea to include to make a Brigade detachment.
I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
It seems like they need to use their counter deep strike ability to be worth taking, and that you need to take a large enough amount of them to actually cripple what you are countering. I think a unit of 10 Mephrit Marks kill about 5 MEQ which is hardly crippling.
So, ran a massive game yesterday, I myself fielding 5.5k points. All Sautekh. Was a lot of fun. Imotekh dealt the final wounds to a Stormsurge, so that was dope. Ended the game with 90% of my stuff still alive, and my team won (It was me and a very small detachment of my friends AM, as he's still learning the game).
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem.
If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong.
Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
Jackers wrote: Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
Tesla loves Mephrit so any unit carrying it wouldn't be bad.
But Gauss Blasters are also quite fond of the extra bump in AP-.
Being the case, Tomb Blades are great in any Mephrit detachment (even more so if they're a big unit of Tesla ones within 12" that get Talent for Annihilation buffed on then. That is going to be a lot of hurt).
Additionally, the HQ sniper CCB can only be run as Mephrit.
Personally I always try to make sure I run a Sautekh Warlord so I can get Hyperlogical Strategist, so I don't actually know how well this runs, but I've heard it's great.
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
Tesla loves Mephrit so any unit carrying it wouldn't be bad.
But Gauss Blasters are also quite fond of the extra bump in AP-.
Being the case, Tomb Blades are great in any Mephrit detachment (even more so if they're a big unit of Tesla ones within 12" that get Talent for Annihilation buffed on then. That is going to be a lot of hurt).
Additionally, the HQ sniper CCB can only be run as Mephrit.
Personally I always try to make sure I run a Sautekh Warlord so I can get Hyperlogical Strategist, so I don't actually know how well this runs, but I've heard it's great.
Thanks for the info. I'd forgotten about the sniper barge, that combined with some Deathmarks should make short work of enemy characters. I have a similar issue, I'm worried I would just want to take a Sautekh warlord every time for that trait. I don't have enough stuff to game yet, but I love coming up with lists and ideas in advance, lol.
Tesla Tomb Blades do interest me, as do Destroyers and Wraiths, but I'm not sure how I would organise all the units into detachments.
It's my favorite little combo of juxtapositions (light/dark, immortality/death),
Balance Keepers: 1x Lord (Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness)
10x Immortals (Gauss)
10x Deathmarks
Everything drops in within 12", so they're all getting rapid fire *and* Mephrit code's extra -1 AP (except the Lord, but he's just a bonus 3 S5 AP-2 shots to finish something off). Plus the reroll 1s to wound for everyone. If used in coordination with Nephrek Destroyers coming in turn 2 there's going to be some major hurt located in one corner of the table.
That's sorta what I was thinking too. Are there any other units worth throwing into a Mephrit detachment?
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem. If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong. Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
I wasn't taking into account their sniping character potential because it's an incredibly situational ability that any sensible opponent will prevent you from using in rapid fire range. The other problem is that if you don't wipe out the character you drop on (quite likely) you will often have effectively achieved nothing as no other units can finish them off. Between their ability to deep strike without needing any extra tricks, the possibility of maybe bagging an out of position character, and the ability to slightly blunt an enemy deep strike, I'd say they can just about justify their increased cost over Immortals. How useful they will be is match up dependent. While they are not terrible we have a lot of other choices that are definitely good to take instead.
Rake in the mortal wounds? You mean inflict about three from a unit of 10 with the help of 1CP and a VoD character.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
I think it speaks to the effectiveness of destroyers that that list managed to do well. I assume the idea is to buff them with the Dlord, Crypteks and 3x MWBD. That's a lot of investment in Destroyers.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I'm not really seeing the appeal of Deathmarks. Their damage output is quite low. In your example of teleporting in with a unit of Gauss Immortals, the Immortals do more damage against most targets, for less points. They're less shooty Immortals that get to teleport but we have several ways to teleport Immortals, who are also troops.
The part in bold might be your problem. If you're pointing Deathmarks at the same thing as Immortals you're definitely using them wrong. Deathmarks are scalpel units, used to surgically remove enemy HQ. I had previously shared the math on 10 Mephrit DMs in rapid fire range rerolling 1s to wound. It was pretty solid (though if you really want to make them shine you pop Talent for Annihilation on them and rake in the MWs).
I wasn't taking into account their sniping character potential because it's an incredibly situational ability that any sensible opponent will prevent you from using in rapid fire range. The other problem is that if you don't wipe out the character you drop on (quite likely) you will often have effectively achieved nothing as no other units can finish them off. Between their ability to deep strike without needing any extra tricks, the possibility of maybe bagging an out of position character, and the ability to slightly blunt an enemy deep strike, I'd say they can just about justify their increased cost over Immortals. How useful they will be is match up dependent. While they are not terrible we have a lot of other choices that are definitely good to take instead.
Rake in the mortal wounds? You mean inflict about three from a unit of 10 with the help of 1CP and a VoD character.
Well given that the average amount of damage a unit of 10 Mephrit Deathmarks boosted by a Lord and using Talent for Annihilation against a T4 character with a 3+ 4++ is 9.07, its more than enough. Even without the Lord and just the Stratagem the damage averages out to 7.78. Mephrit Deathmarks are no joke when it comes to killing characters when they get the chance, which due to the 9" rule is harder than one would like. Despite that, you still can't count them out.
Well given that the average amount of damage a unit of 10 Mephrit Deathmarks boosted by a Lord and using Talent for Annihilation against a T4 character with a 3+ 4++ is 9.07, its more than enough. Even without the Lord and just the Stratagem the damage averages out to 7.78. Mephrit Deathmarks are no joke when it comes to killing characters, especially in lower point games when people may not be able to afford the most effective bubblewrap.
The maths is decent, now you just need an enemy character to be less than 3" back from the their screening units.
The maths is decent, now you just need an enemy character to be less than 3" back from the their screening units.
The math is great, but I agree that screening units a big problem for the Deathmarks. They rely on your opponent to screw up their positioning to give you an opening, but if they do that character is pretty much deleted off the board. It would really help if they could DS closer and in turn not be able to charge.
Arachnofiend wrote: Any advice for beating Aeldari armies? It feels like any shooting I take is going to get smacked by stacked - to hit and any attempts at bringing melee up the board is just going to get nuked by Forewarned. I can't even rely on my destroyers because EP will just get denied by Agents of Vect every turn. I feel I can make lists that would be at least manageable against any other army but I can't for the life of me come up with something that'd do well against the space elves.
Just a quick chime in for this. You know what Alaitoc doesn't defend against? Melee and MWs. Wraiths and C'tan (and potentially Vault) are your friends in this matchup, they'll blow through most defenses and Wraiths wound most Eldar on 2+ (the rest on 3+ except maybe some vehicles). And those pesky flyers? C'tan charge them and Power them.
Bossanovee wrote: Just want to share another list that finished 2nd in tourney
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
Destroyers may become one of the new Tournament boogymen. They're absolutely brutal, especially in redundant numbers and with character support. Which means people might start building around them, limiting their future effectiveness. We'll see how it plays out, but my local meta has already started to hate mine.
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
Or real hordes list. Like 100+ bodies, especially those have inv saves on them. 18 Destroyers are strong, but that is only 54 shots. They only likely to kill around T4 25ish bodies each turn.
_Ness wrote: why did he went for sauthek on the outrider?
maybe because his destroyer lord is Sautekh, and he can advance and shoot so his destroyers' mobility is better. No need to worry about -1 to hit, he got enough overlords to mitigate that, so still hit on 3s rerolling 1s, and also reroll 1s to wound with the Dlord.
The Destroyer Cults rise again. The time of the Crimson Harvest is at hand.
(though seriously, I only ever run a single unit because of Extermination Protocols. Could probably try a redundancy unit as backup/support, but I don't think I'd ever run three or more. If 900+ points of my list are tied up in one type of thing all it takes is the meta getting wise to it and we'll start seeing lists built to specifically counter it).
In other topics, if worried about landing space for Deathmarks trying to get at characters, I guess we could use Doomsday Arks on turn one to try to open up a good chunk of table real estate?
The more I think about it, going overly specialized is bad for us. We need a variety of things on the table because our weapons are fairly specialized. Our Dynasty Codes push us to specialize, but with the strategies being usable only once per phase and our relative lack of auras we are not able to capitalize on those specializations.
For instance, I think that we'll get more mileage out of a unit of wraiths than the 3rd unit of destroyers. (Provided you aren't trying to make the wraiths into destroyers).
Anpu-adom wrote: The more I think about it, going overly specialized is bad for us. We need a variety of things on the table because our weapons are fairly specialized. Our Dynasty Codes push us to specialize, but with the strategies being usable only once per phase and our relative lack of auras we are not able to capitalize on those specializations.
For instance, I think that we'll get more mileage out of a unit of wraiths than the 3rd unit of destroyers. (Provided you aren't trying to make the wraiths into destroyers).
Agreed.
95% of the lists I make involve 3 units in an outrider. Those units are either 6 wraiths, or 6 Destroyers in some combination. The rest is basically a fearless mephrit phalanx and the veil of darkness to negate counter assaults.
or otherwise.
12 Wraiths, 6 Destroyers
or
12 Destroyers, 6 Wraiths
My problem is,
We're spoiled for choice in the Fast Attack slot, but I want them to be different Dynasties.
ie.
Mephrit Tomb Blades
Novokh Wraiths
Nephrekh Destroyers
Nephrekh Scarabs
At the moment I'm just sticking with the typical 6x Destroyers, 3x Scarabs, 3x Scarabs Nephrekh Outrider, but I think I want to try maybe adding some Wraiths into the mix. And Tomb Blades too, and, oops, looks like that'll cost a fortune.
I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
I think pure Sautekh and pure Nephrekh have a place, but the absolute best armies will probably be mixed dynasties. It wouldn't surprise me if the "powerful but narrow" design of the dynastic codes is an intentional design in order to give Necrons some ability to compete with the larger soup armies.
Nagerash wrote: I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
Spiders are pretty bad. Even with the gloom prism they arent really a good use of points. People have mixed views on warriors, personally i dont think they are worth it. Id get rid of the warriors and ghost ark and spyder. Take more immortals and either another DDA or a transcendent Ctan.
18 destroyers is a big commitment, and the counter to destroyers is fairly easy, you just add more heavy weapons. Destroyers don't have an invul, long range, toughness 8, or any defensive shenanigans, so heavy weapons work great on them. So when people start bringing an extra dev squad or the like, you'll see the destroyer cult style list fall out of favor. For instance dark reapers are already a pretty good counter to destroyers, and even after the nerf they are still a great unit for the eldar. I'm sure the meta will have worked itself out long before the fall FAQ, so I'm not too worried about them getting a nerf.
A Nephrekh chronotek or two running alongside destroyers can provide an invul and better RPs, but I think 12 destroyers and some wraith is better.
Nagerash wrote: I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
Spiders are pretty bad. Even with the gloom prism they arent really a good use of points. People have mixed views on warriors, personally i dont think they are worth it. Id get rid of the warriors and ghost ark and spyder. Take more immortals and either another DDA or a transcendent Ctan.
I concur about what to remove, but would say consider Tomb Blades and Scarabs as far as what to add.
For example-
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP [97 PL, 1749pts] ++
+ HQ +
Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 131pts]: Phylactery, Warscythe
Lord [5 PL, 83pts]: Staff of Light, Veil
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
++ Total: [97 PL, 1749pts] ++
Could probably switch out the D.Lord but I figured having someone who could pull their weight in combat wouldn't be bad. Him and the Scarabs can go run off and have fun while the Doomsday Arks pepper things from the backline.
One thing I would say to consider is maybe taking the Destroyers as a Nephrekh aux for -1CP so they could pop in instead of running up to get into position or being Veil'd (and you may consider switching out the D.Lord for a CCB at that point).
Here is the issue with that article, he only counts charge phases and the necrons shooting phase, remember you get to take part in two assault phases per round, and in only get to shoot ranged weapons once a round (if your using the pistol, otherwise it's a one and done with the rod). So a more honest calculation would halve the effect of the ranged weapons. Which leaves Praetorians noticeably worse than lychguard, especially when you consider stratagems like blood rights, which lets novokh attack twice in a single phase. Other issues include using only one wound models, which greatly favors praetorians since they have no means to do multiple wounds. He also uses a very narrow target profile (albeit one that is common), against t3, as well as t5 and up lychguard perform much better due to higher strength of attacks.
Long and short GW screwed the pooch on praetorians, they cost too much, the two configurations are horribly lopsided in effectiveness yet cost the same, and by excluding them from the dynasty keyword they cut off any synergy with the rest of the necron army. FLG and ITC have more or less become a GW marketing asset, so seeing a lame article trying to spin the effectiveness of a bad unit is just par for the course at this point.
Yeah no getting around it - Triarch Praetorians didn't get a lot of love in our 8th Ed. Codex.
Pretty sure the author of that article responded to your comments and addressed the fact that the authord did the average math on the charge, which was labelled as such, and provided a table showing dmg against all T & Sv. enemies and even called out your comments as showing that you failed to read the actual article and just made hap-hazarded comments based on looking only at the math (which appears correct and accurately labelled).
I don't think there is any spin, it just looked like a fair opinion piece comparing lychguard and triarch praetorians. Neither are stand-out amazing so it just covered the differences and pros and cons of each. IMO Wraiths clearly outclass both, though Lychguard with sword-and-board have their place as being pretty resilient.
Your 2nd paragraph is very confusing - you seem to agree that voidblade & particle caster praetorians are clearly better than Rod of Covenant (which seemed to be the main premise of the article, other than comparing lychguard as well), and then call the article a lame attempt at spin. Not sure why you would hate on any discussion of necrons, especially when the analysis is sound and overall informative of differences so that each player can make their own determination to bring what they like. Perhaps you're just disappointed GW cut off the Praetorians from synergy and didn't make them strong enough to compensate? I think we're all in agreement there, but there is a difference between someone saying "Triarch Praetorians are great," which would be flat out wrong, versus someone saying "Triarch Praetorians are sometimes better than Lychguard, depending on the situation, and here are the pros & cons of bringing praetorians vs. bringing lychguard."
Nagerash wrote: I was still looking into what a good list vs eldar would be as I have still no idea about strategies against them. I came up with the following and I wonder what your thoughts are.
I don't have a game planned against them, but this is purely to look at what I would expect could work with the limited knowledge I have on them. Maybe it'll help someone.
Spoiler:
the obvious weakness is the lack of an tanky OL character, but as long as they don't have many snipers (I really don't know if this is an autoinclude in eldar lists) I should be fine just slogging/veiling it across the board.
I stayed away from any Tesla, and therefor wanted to try a list that is very low on HQ with just a cryptek and lord. I felt the lord would add more to the veil DM combo, and I really think I need a cryptek in this list. I had Illuminor Szeras in as my warlord at first, but I really felt the lack of 5++ against Eldar could be telling, with the ammount of AP-2/-3 weapons they have + the fact that any list that features 40 warriors will have an entire army focusfiring them, which means the 5++ could really be crucial to keep them alive. I also went with 2 deny chances with the WL trait and the Gloom. I'm curious how it would perform.
Maybe it will give someone ideas if they face our most hated enemy (not counting the Tyranids that our Silent King keeps blabing about)
Spiders are pretty bad. Even with the gloom prism they arent really a good use of points. People have mixed views on warriors, personally i dont think they are worth it. Id get rid of the warriors and ghost ark and spyder. Take more immortals and either another DDA or a transcendent Ctan.
I concur about what to remove, but would say consider Tomb Blades and Scarabs as far as what to add.
For example-
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP [97 PL, 1749pts] ++
+ HQ +
Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 131pts]: Phylactery, Warscythe
Lord [5 PL, 83pts]: Staff of Light, Veil
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 193pts]
++ Total: [97 PL, 1749pts] ++
Could probably switch out the D.Lord but I figured having someone who could pull their weight in combat wouldn't be bad. Him and the Scarabs can go run off and have fun while the Doomsday Arks pepper things from the backline.
One thing I would say to consider is maybe taking the Destroyers as a Nephrekh aux for -1CP so they could pop in instead of running up to get into position or being Veil'd (and you may consider switching out the D.Lord for a CCB at that point).
The Reason I didn't list any Tomb Blades, is because I expect any Eldar player to use at least 1 unit of Dark Reavers and they always hit on 3's whatever the modifiers. Which means the best defense Blades have is gone, and with their weapons being 2shot S5 -2 D2 weapons. That is very easily a dead squad of Blades imo. The Reason I go for big warrior blobs, is I have this idea that Eldar are mostly a very elite army, who might struggle with lots of bodies on the field. So making the warriors as resilient as possible can work wonders. + S4 ap-1/2 is very strong against his T3 infantry. and weight of fire is a good counter vs any -1 to hit or whatever defenses he might place on his infantry. So I figured staying away from Tesla is a good idea and you need the cryptek for the warriors. But I as I've said. I haven't tested this.
I'm not a fan of the Destroyer lord. His reroll to wound can't be used in the fight fase on a model clearly meant to go in CC + and he's pretty expensive.
I'm also not a big fan of using 2 cp to DS Destroyers, when you can just deploy them out of line of sight for the first turn.
I would never play it because I'm dragging my feet assembling my second ghost ark, finishing painting my first ghost ark, and even starting to paint my DDA. A big ol' bucket of nope for this list.
I wouldn't play it simply cos I can't stand Warrior models. The legs are stupidly posed and the rest of the kit feels outdated. I'll field 1 unit if I absolutely have to, but would go to great lengths to avoid having any.
Here is the issue with that article, he only counts charge phases and the necrons shooting phase, remember you get to take part in two assault phases per round, and in only get to shoot ranged weapons once a round (if your using the pistol, otherwise it's a one and done with the rod). So a more honest calculation would halve the effect of the ranged weapons. Which leaves Praetorians noticeably worse than lychguard, especially when you consider stratagems like blood rights, which lets novokh attack twice in a single phase. Other issues include using only one wound models, which greatly favors praetorians since they have no means to do multiple wounds. He also uses a very narrow target profile (albeit one that is common), against t3, as well as t5 and up lychguard perform much better due to higher strength of attacks.
Long and short GW screwed the pooch on praetorians, they cost too much, the two configurations are horribly lopsided in effectiveness yet cost the same, and by excluding them from the dynasty keyword they cut off any synergy with the rest of the necron army. FLG and ITC have more or less become a GW marketing asset, so seeing a lame article trying to spin the effectiveness of a bad unit is just par for the course at this point.
Yeah no getting around it - Triarch Praetorians didn't get a lot of love in our 8th Ed. Codex.
Pretty sure the author of that article responded to your comments and addressed the fact that the authord did the average math on the charge, which was labelled as such, and provided a table showing dmg against all T & Sv. enemies and even called out your comments as showing that you failed to read the actual article and just made hap-hazarded comments based on looking only at the math (which appears correct and accurately labelled).
I don't think there is any spin, it just looked like a fair opinion piece comparing lychguard and triarch praetorians. Neither are stand-out amazing so it just covered the differences and pros and cons of each. IMO Wraiths clearly outclass both, though Lychguard with sword-and-board have their place as being pretty resilient.
Your 2nd paragraph is very confusing - you seem to agree that voidblade & particle caster praetorians are clearly better than Rod of Covenant (which seemed to be the main premise of the article, other than comparing lychguard as well), and then call the article a lame attempt at spin. Not sure why you would hate on any discussion of necrons, especially when the analysis is sound and overall informative of differences so that each player can make their own determination to bring what they like. Perhaps you're just disappointed GW cut off the Praetorians from synergy and didn't make them strong enough to compensate? I think we're all in agreement there, but there is a difference between someone saying "Triarch Praetorians are great," which would be flat out wrong, versus someone saying "Triarch Praetorians are sometimes better than Lychguard, depending on the situation, and here are the pros & cons of bringing praetorians vs. bringing lychguard."
To be fair. Lychguard are our most efficient close combat damage dealers. They are pretty darn tough too. However, they struggle with a lack of delivery options, where wraiths simply move to their targets, and can charge with the strategem
Legitimately don't know this, but could you even play it? I thought dedicated transports need the corresponding unit to be fielded per the detachment callout box (so you would need another infantry character or unit of Warriors). I may be misreading this however, and the blurb could mean you would need at least 5 other units to field the 5 transports (which this list fulfills).
I would never play it because I'm dragging my feet assembling my second ghost ark, finishing painting my first ghost ark, and even starting to paint my DDA. A big ol' bucket of nope for this list.
I hear that.
Advice for anyone building this kit:
Always assemble it with the ribs pointing up but without the broken warrior "filling". You can then slot in the big gun to make it a DDA (no glue required) or leave it out to have a ghost ark. You can even stand a whole unit of 10 warriors inside the empty ark if you like.
I would never play it because I'm dragging my feet assembling my second ghost ark, finishing painting my first ghost ark, and even starting to paint my DDA. A big ol' bucket of nope for this list.
I hear that.
Advice for anyone building this kit:
Always assemble it with the ribs pointing up but without the broken warrior "filling". You can then slot in the big gun to make it a DDA (no glue required) or leave it out to have a ghost ark. You can even stand a whole unit of 10 warriors inside the empty ark if you like.
This is what I did. I even modeled some of the passengers as regular warriors since I had extra gauss flayers (made a bunch of crypteks in the old days.) Gives you a chance to have some warriors that don't look like they are squating.
This has decent synergy with the mephrit code. That's a lot of AP. I don't know how competitive it would be, but I plan on running something similar, assuming it doesn't violate any rules, etc.
The issue with that Mephrit list is that it has no hard shooting outside the DDAs. Even with AP-2, the rest is just S4, so you're really hoping to grind down before you die, which isn't a great strategy.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I really miss the Ghost Ark being Open Topped. A single change like that would really bump Warriors up a tier.
honestly, I think that may end up being too strong with the durability of the ghost ark. That's a pretty significant amount of firepower in a very resilient package. Maybe if they did open-topped with a -1 to hit modifier or something?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I really miss the Ghost Ark being Open Topped. A single change like that would really bump Warriors up a tier.
honestly, I think that may end up being too strong with the durability of the ghost ark. That's a pretty significant amount of firepower in a very resilient package. Maybe if they did open-topped with a -1 to hit modifier or something?
Seeing how durable Rhinos are, I don't think that's a valid complaint.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I really miss the Ghost Ark being Open Topped. A single change like that would really bump Warriors up a tier.
honestly, I think that may end up being too strong with the durability of the ghost ark. That's a pretty significant amount of firepower in a very resilient package. Maybe if they did open-topped with a -1 to hit modifier or something?
Seeing how durable Rhinos are, I don't think that's a valid complaint.
I'm not super familiar with rhino stats.....but if I recall they're not open topped are they? Are you simply saying they're very durable? Don't they have much less firepower than a ghost ark? They definitely don't have quantum shielding.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I really miss the Ghost Ark being Open Topped. A single change like that would really bump Warriors up a tier.
honestly, I think that may end up being too strong with the durability of the ghost ark. That's a pretty significant amount of firepower in a very resilient package. Maybe if they did open-topped with a -1 to hit modifier or something?
Seeing how durable Rhinos are, I don't think that's a valid complaint.
I'm not super familiar with rhino stats.....but if I recall they're not open topped are they? Are you simply saying they're very durable? Don't they have much less firepower than a ghost ark? They definitely don't have quantum shielding.
It doesn't make sense for the Ghost Ark to be open-topped, since the warriors ride all plugged into the regeneration apparatus.
I have 3 DDA/GA... may have to run a game or two with them as GA.
I would never play it because I'm dragging my feet assembling my second ghost ark, finishing painting my first ghost ark, and even starting to paint my DDA. A big ol' bucket of nope for this list.
I can relate. The arks are nice models (ignoring the fact that they don't really fit logically in the lore as military vehicles), but they are an absolute bitch to assemble.
I swear GW hates necron players. That's why they give us such annoying kits to assemble.
I would never play it because I'm dragging my feet assembling my second ghost ark, finishing painting my first ghost ark, and even starting to paint my DDA. A big ol' bucket of nope for this list.
I can relate. The arks are nice models (ignoring the fact that they don't really fit logically in the lore as military vehicles), but they are an absolute bitch to assemble.
I swear GW hates necron players. That's why they give us such annoying kits to assemble.
They look so cool though! I'm okay with the difficulty assembling and painting because the end product looks great!
Yeah the dda / ghost ark is a pain to put together. But they do look sweet. I normally run 2 dda with a Spyder, 40 warriors, 10 immortals, and a ghost ark. I like the idea of adding 2 more, they really do have some serious firepower themselves. They have the shooting ability of 10 warriors, t6, 4+ save, quantum shielding, and 14 wounds. Vs a rhino for 74 pts (half the cost) being arguably about as durable (3+ save, 10 wounds) but without the output of firepower (2 storm bolters).
When in a vacuum yes the rhino looks better since it's so much cheaper but add in the reanimation boost for warriors it's nice. If your playing mass warriors you need them. If not then they are still useful, but perhaps overcost a bit.
Azuza001 wrote: Yeah the dda / ghost ark is a pain to put together. But they do look sweet. I normally run 2 dda with a Spyder, 40 warriors, 10 immortals, and a ghost ark. I like the idea of adding 2 more, they really do have some serious firepower themselves. They have the shooting ability of 10 warriors, t6, 4+ save, quantum shielding, and 14 wounds. Vs a rhino for 74 pts (half the cost) being arguably about as durable (3+ save, 10 wounds) but without the output of firepower (2 storm bolters).
When in a vacuum yes the rhino looks better since it's so much cheaper but add in the reanimation boost for warriors it's nice. If your playing mass warriors you need them. If not then they are still useful, but perhaps overcost a bit.
The ghost ark also has more wounds, more guns, quantum shielding and living metal. If the ghost ark was rhino price it would be overpowered. Maybe it does need 20 points or so shaved off, but it should be more than a rhino.
You don't use the ark as a transport. That's not actually its primary role. Its primary role is to be an ambulance for warriors.
Sn33R wrote: I love this idea but has anyone came up with a competetive list with 2xdda and 2xga that's a big point sink.
How do you play it though? Rush forward to get into RF range? Shoot till one pops, then unload warriors and try to keep them alive?
Not a clue?.. maybe deceiver it up with a squad of warriors? Really you would want 2x 20 warriors and 2x ghost arks. That is a lot of firepower not mega power but mass dakka. In my meta ass razorback spam is prevelant
Had a 1500pt game vs Ultramarines. We were using Targets of Opportunity from Chapter Approved and Search and Destroy deployment. I won the game 12-6. Battle Report To come within the next few days. My list was;
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I really miss the Ghost Ark being Open Topped. A single change like that would really bump Warriors up a tier.
honestly, I think that may end up being too strong with the durability of the ghost ark. That's a pretty significant amount of firepower in a very resilient package. Maybe if they did open-topped with a -1 to hit modifier or something?
Seeing how durable Rhinos are, I don't think that's a valid complaint.
I'm not super familiar with rhino stats.....but if I recall they're not open topped are they? Are you simply saying they're very durable? Don't they have much less firepower than a ghost ark? They definitely don't have quantum shielding.
2 Storm Bolters and the Rhino is 74 points. They're actually very durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable for us to just get Open Topped back for the Ghost Ark.
2 Storm Bolters and the Rhino is 74 points. They're actually very durable for the cost. It isn't unreasonable for us to just get Open Topped back for the Ghost Ark.
The ghost ark has 2.5 times the firepower (not including the extra -1ap), and is significantly more durable. Making it open top would give it 5 times the number of shots while a unit is on board - there's no way that wouldn't incur a point increase!
